What I could do with here is ideas for the UP, UU, UB, UHV, Leaders and Spawn Dates for all the civs in the game. I will collect all the attempts in this first post for easy access.

Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Russia, Turks, USA need only minor tweaks to UHV's:

British UHV:
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have 3 none-european Vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build Notre Dame, the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Control Louisiana and Canada by 1950 AD

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the Core Area of 3 European Civilizations

Portuguese UHV:
1. Have the most explored map of the world in 1650 AD
2. Have open borders agreement with 12 other civs in 1650 AD
3. Found 15 extra-European colonies

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

Turkish UHV:
1. Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD
2. Spread Sunni Islam to every Persian city by 1800 AD
3. Have as vassal states at least 3 other civs in 1870 AD

I have done one as an example, feel free to criticize as I know very little about the Safavid Empire and am getting all my info off the internet...

Completed Civs:
(Still open to debate though)

For some unknown and unexpected reason by internet died whilst saving some changes during editing this page, information past this point is randomly missing and I don't have time to fix it until later today. Sorry for the invonveniance.

Well one way to go with China is to have an alternate history beginning in colonization. This would be because the mod starts around the time of the Treasure Ships.

UHV:
1. Be the first civilization to build a city in North America
2. The Sino-Japanese union- vassalize or control Japan by 1580 C.E.
3. Be the first civilization to undergo the Industrial Revolution.

Those would be an example of an alternate history UHV. However if we only wanted a max of one overly alternate history criteria then this would be better.

UHV:
1. Be the first civilization to build a city in North America (one overly alternate history criteria)
2. Have open borders agreement with Portugal, the Netherlands, Spain, and Japan by 1600 ish
3.Control or control by trade six resources of silver by 1830 C.E.

Canada

Leader(s):
MacDonald
Trudeau
King

Spawn Date:
1867 (or closest to)

UP:
Power of the CPR: -50% time required to build a railroad
OR
Power of the Great White North: Tundra produces +1 :food:
OR
Power of the North-West Passage: All coastal cities have +1 :traderoute:
OR
Power of the Fur Trade: All furs produce +5 :commerce: OR Furs are not obsolete after plastics

UB:
Microwave Station: Replaces Broadcast Tower:
+100% culture instead of +50%
OR
Hockey Rink: Replaces Amphitheatre:
+1 :) per ice square in the city's fat cross instead of +1 :)

UU:
Canada Corps: Replaces Infantry:
2 :move: instead of 1
OR
Mountie: Replaces Cavalry:
14 :strength: instead of 15
+50% vs. gunpowder units

UHV:
1: Build a railroad from the Atlantic to the Pacific by 1900 (did do)
2: Control 8 fur resources by 1920 (did do)
3: Control America by 1950/1975/2000 (didn't do but wanted to)

@ Zagoroth - Sorry, but I don't see how your UHVs for china relate to its achievements or desires. Thanks for your contribution nonetheless though, input is always welcome. :)

@ JiimBV - Thank for your Canada ideas, they all look very good to me. I quite like the idea of combining your Power of the Great White North and the Hockey Rink, but with some tweaking.
Firstly does Tundra currently gives nothing? If so then giving it +1 :food: still wont make anyone work it. So how about their UP makes tundra give 2 :food: and 1 :hammers: like Inca mountains?
Secondly I like the Hockey Rink but think that +1 :) per ice tile is both overpowered and hard to code. How about just + 2 :) and +25% :culture:?

Your UHV's look good, but again coding gets in the way. Railroad ones sound good but I think I remember hearing that they are hard to code (otherwise the British UHV will change to make the Cape to Cairo). So the first two look good but we need one more.

Also about the fur one, I particularly like that as it is a very subtle way of saying 'control Canada'. I don't know about the number 8 though, I'll load up civ later. I think the number of furs should be the same as however many furs the are in the whole of North America.

Lastly I thought Mounties were a branch of the police? If so they wouldn't be suitable for a UU...



EDIT:
Checked in WB and the are 6 furs in canada. I think that the objective should therefore be to control 6 fur resources. (i.e. in your territory and not via trade. If possible you should be able to sell and swap these and still achieve the goal, but if thats not possible then maybe we should have one of the corps rewarding furs instead, so at least they will have a chance at making them useful.

Oh, yeah, the 8 was a random guess. :p So then 6, as you say.

So was the tundra, unfortunately I've never played as Russia or the Vikings, or any civ with tundra in it. So whatever it takes to make tundra usable.

Hmm... let's see... 2+ :) and +25% :culture: works. And as for a new UHV..

I'm really having trouble thinking of another one. Ugh.

OOH!

1: Control 6 fur resources by 1920 (did do)
2: Have a peacekeeping unit in every nation and/or have no nation be at war in 1950 (did do.. sorta)
3: Control America by 2000 (didn't do but wanted to)

2: Basically have a unit in every country, requiring open borders with every country. The only major war was the Korean War, right? And Korea is non-exsistent in RFC, so this is plausable. Please be easy to code. Or at least the second part be easy to code.

Two and three conflict, I know, but it'll add to the fun/difficulty, wouldn't it? :D

And yeah, I know about the Mounties, but I at least wanted to give you a choice :lol:

How about 'Do not Declare war on any Old World Civ' before 1950? Its similar and sounds more code-able.

EDIT: Are they called Canada Corps or Canadian Corps?

That's completely and utterly unrealistic. It declared war on Germany in WW2. I don't think that would work very well. Best would be a "No wars in the world in 1950", which seems easy to mod, and possible but difficult to play, and is realistic considering the civilizations that would be in this version of RFC. And it would represent Canada's role in WW2 and peacekeeping.

Oh, sorry, Canadian Corps. Sorry. :p

EDIT: For :food:, :move:, etc. need to have the first letter to be lower-case in order for it to show.

Yeah, good point. No Wars in 1950 seems a bit odd though, as its totally out of the players control if two foreign parties declare war on each other in 1949...

How about have open borders with 8 civs? be the highest scoring ex colony? control Alaska? (did Canada want Alaska?)

Hmm.. yeah. Open borders with 8 civilizations.. Seems reasonably difficult, especially since you'll need to be at war with America, which may end up being friends with most of Europe, the only possibility for a religious friend.

And don't we..err..you (:lol:) need new UHVs for most of Europe? Portugal and Holland do for sure.

EDIT: No, I'm pretty sure we didn't, and if we did, we already have one thing we didn't accomplish.

Cool, I'll put in the 8 Open Borders then, it represents both your diplomatic success as well as your place as one of the worlds biggest trading nations.

Aww shucks. Why thank'ee.

And here's some ideas for the ones already in RFC. Not Germany or China or Japan, just the others.

Britain: Fine, but may want to change "Be the first to circumnavigate", as that would've happened by 1500 or whenever this starts. Maybe a conquering of Germany UHV, or a bombing of Germany UHV. Or a defense of the British Isles UHV. I dunno.

France: All work perfectly, and colonizing Quebec and Hudson's Bay helps with Canada spawning.

Spain: "Be the first to found a city in America", definitely want to change, as they should start with cities in the Americas. Perhaps something to do with Spain at home. Also, add Franco as a leaderhead.

Portugal: "Have the most explored map of the world in 1500AD", maybe move it later.

Netherlands: Fine.

Russia: Great.

Turks: "Control the Bosporus (the Istanbul Strait) by 1500AD" needs to be moved slightly later or replaced.

America: Great. Might want to include something with Mexico and Canada but not needed.

EDIT: OOOPSS!!! Please forgive me.. I just realized that it starts by 1500 or earlier. I thought it was in 1660. :p

Fixed everything.

Britain: Fine, but may want to change "Be the first to circumnavigate", as that would've happened by 1660 or whenever this starts. Maybe a conquering of Germany UHV, or a bombing of Germany UHV. Or a defense of the British Isles UHV. I dunno.

How about 'Control 3 Vassals' by 1900? With so many colonial civs (particularly, Canada, Australia and India) it will make it a matter of being the dominant power in its historic area...

France: All work perfectly, and colonizing Quebec and Hudson's Bay helps with Canada spawning.

How about Control Louisiana (2 cities) and Canada (4 cities or vassal) in 1800? This would force them to compete with Britain for Canada, as well as fend of the Americans for at least a while.

Spain: "Be the first to found a city in America", definitely want to change, as they should start with cities in the Americas. Perhaps something to do with Spain at home. Also, add Franco as a leaderhead.

Portugal: "Have the most explored map of the world in 1500AD", maybe move it later. Same with "Have open borders agreement with 12 other civs in 1650".

How about most explored map in 1650?

Turks: "Control the Bosporus (the Istanbul Strait) by 1500AD" needs to be replaced. Moving it later would be kinda stupid.

Agreed. How about the aim of stamping out Shi'a, maybe 'Spread Sunni Islam to every city in Persia by a certain date?' (If Persia is a theocracy this may well mean invasion), control North Africa? or even be first to enter the industrial era?

I also think the vassal one needs replacing too, but like you say the arn't many ideas for them.

America: Great. Might want to include something with Mexico and Canada but not needed.
Again, I agree, Manifest Destiny would be nice, but isn't a top priority.

Austria

Leader:
Ferdinand I (if someone could find a leaderhead)
Maria Theresa

Spawn Date:
1500

UP:
Power of the Hapsburgs:
Start with diplomatic bonus with all European civs, and defensive pact with Spain

UB:
Opera House: replaces Theatre
1 :), 5 culture, +25% culture

UU:
Grenzer: Replaces Rifleman
+50% vs. gunpowder units

UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1510 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Control Germany and Bosporus by 1800 AD
3: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD







British UHV:
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have Canada, India and Australia as vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build Notre Dame, the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Control Louisiana and Canada by 1950 AD (requires war with Canada and America)

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Have Spain and Austria be the only civilizations in Europe in 1900 AD (Hapsburg Alliance)

Portuguese UHV:
1. Have the most explored map of the world in 1650 AD
2. Have open borders agreement with 12 other civs in 1650 AD
3. Found 15 extra-European colonies

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

Turkish UHV:
1. Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD
2. Spread Sunni Islam to every Persian city by 1800 AD
3. Have as vassal states at least 3 other civs in 1870 AD

Sounds good in general, but the name Opera House is already taken by the national wonder and I don't like the Spanish Hapsburg UHV of no other Euro Civs.

Also, would close allies be the best way to describe the Austrian-Spanish relations or would one be a vassal of the other?

Oh, forgot about that. I exclusively play RFC, so I rarely ever build the Opera House. Austrian Theatre? Operahaus? Opera Theatre? :confused:

They were not vassals as far as I know, Spain to Austria or Austria to Spain., rather two kingdoms ruled by the Hapsburgs. They were bound together by continuous inter-marriage and an alliance based on the fact they thought themselves higher than the rest of Europe. As for the no non-Hapsburg civs in Europe, that was simply because I had NO other ideas for a UHV. Can you think of anything? I'm drawing blanks. :sad:

How are things coming along for RFC:I Kairob? Whatcha got done so far?

Very little so far but I have had a couple of goes at changing things (like the new calendar is in place) and the game still works so thats good. I am mainly focusing on learning python by reading through the tutorials and stuff.

UP:
Power of the Hapsburgs:
Start with diplomatic bonus with all European civs, and defensive pact with Spain

UB:
Opera House: replaces Theatre
1 :), 5 culture, +25% culture

UU:
Grenzer: Replaces Rifleman
+50% vs. gunpowder units

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Have Spain and Austria be the only civilizations in Europe in 1900 AD (Hapsburg Alliance)

UP: I don't like the DP with Spain. It's a UP for Spain too this way. And the UP is the same as the France. And then it isn't a Unique power.

UB: The same UB as China, but more powerful. And not Unique building.

UU: The same as the UB. Same but more powerful.

UHV Spain 3: This is then also a UHV for Austria. And nearly impossible.

All good criticism. Do you have any alternative suggestions?

Austria's UHV shouldn't be "change to HR by 1510" because then humans who played some other civ and want to switch to the Austrians could find that the computer switched to something else (or just stayed in despotism) and it will ruin their UHV.

For the British UHV, instead of specifically Australia, Canada and India as vassals, just say "3 non-European vassals".
For French UHV, Notrde Dam will be already built in Paris, so something else could replace it.
Spanish UHV: Maybe instead of no other civ in Europe whatsoever (except for Austria) don't include Russia and any vassals of Spain or Austria. (If Austria gets a vassal and you must destroy it it pretty much means you're gonna have to eliminate all of Europe).
Dutch UHV: Maybe instead of 7 spices it could be 1 of each spice group and 1 of each X group? (could be silk, ivory, Bananas, any other resource which fits).
Turkish UHV: instead of 3 vassal states, how about control Austria's Core zone? (or 2 vassal and Control Austria's Spawn zone).
BTW kairob, what do you think about UHVs and the later starts? I mean could it be possible for a player to start in ~1600 (whatever the second start's date) as a civ which already "completed" it's first 2 UHVs or is about to and then all he has to worry about is the 3rd one?

During the Ming dynasty China was trading with the Portuguese, Dutch, and Spain. At this time they were increasing the wealth of the country. Between this time and the Opium Wars they were trading tea, silk, and china for silver to increase the nation wealth. That is how the UHV conditions are related.

For the Japanese UHV there are two options, you could either go with the isolationist or expansionist goals. (You could almost have two sets of UHVs, as long as they were designed so that you either went for one or the other).

Expansionist would be something like -
1. Control Korea and the Philippines by 1650
2. Vassalize China by 1700
3. Control Indonesia and Oceania (Polynesia, perhaps Australia and New Zealand) by 1850

Isolationist would be -
1. Have no open borders and no foreign trade routes in 1650
2. Have no foreign culture in Japan in 1700
3. Do not expand outside your spawn area before 1850

The Isolationist ones seem to easy, all you have to do is "survive by yourself".
Maybe something like first in score or first to complete the tech tree to show how the Japanese wanted to be "superior" to the European nations or at least equal to them.

Yeah, they are a bit too easy. Something like that sounds good. How about, 'be first in score in [year] without having expanded outside your spawn area'?

America should get a new UU:
The Rough Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Rider) or the M60 Patton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton)

Austria's UU could be a WWI tank that was never produced, the Burstyn Tank (http://www.landships.freeservers.com/burstyn_tank.htm), by Snafusmith (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8325149&postcount=631) (the art dissapeared!!?!)
One of its UHVs should be to have complete control or the Balkans by 1914.

One of Germany's UHVs should be to control Morocco by 1911 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morocco_Crisis).

And two more things:
How come you don't want to include Argentina?
What are we going to do about Aztecs/Inca (two spawns or two civs)?

@merijn v1: OK, I didn't know that about the UU and UB being (un-unique?), I did about the UP. I'm just lost for ideas. Wait.. I got one. As for the UHV, I know it's terrible, but same, lost for ideas.

How about..

UB:
Operahaus/Opera Theatre:
3 :culture:, 1 :) per 20% :culture:, 2 Great Artist Points

So a Theatre with GA points. Is 2 enough? Or more? Or less?

UU:
Jaeger: (replaces rifleman)
12 Strength, +75% when attacking Gunpowder Units

So a riflemen, minus 2 strength, minus bonus vs. mounted units, plus bonus vs. riflemen. Used by the Austrians in WWI. Should it be Gunpowder units or Riflemen?

UP:
Power of Patronage: +2 :culture: for every cultural building

Includes any building producing culture, except for anything made cultural by a random event.

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

British UHV:
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have 3 non-European vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Control Louisiana and Canada by 1950 AD

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

(Didn't change anything because I'm confused about what you said BurnEmDown)

Turkish UHV:
1. Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD
2. Spread Sunni Islam to every Persian city by 1800 AD
3. Control Austria's core zone and have 2 vassal states in 1870 AD

@BurnEmDown: For the Dutch one, did you mean have one of each luxury resource? That sounds pretty good, I guess. For how realistic it is, I have no idea. I wouldn't know. :p

@All: I hope I incorporated everyone's ideas and have fixed all the flaws.

How come you don't want to include Argentina?
Too small, and as far as I know didn't do anything.

What are we going to do about Aztecs/Inca (two spawns or two civs)?
No aztec and Inca. Native cities and Peru and Aztecs can spawn around the time of the beggining of the Viceroyalities of Peru and Mexico.

Argentina was one of the wealthiest nations in the world for a while. It was vastly unimportant as a colony/viceroyality of Spain, however, so should be represented as a Spanish colony until it spawns in 1810, the year of it's independence.

Argentine UHV Ideas:
-Be the world's wealthiest nation in 1880/1900
-No European Colonies in South America in 1900
-Be first in score in 2000

Also, if possible, you should allow for the player to be a vassal, so that Peru may be represented historically. It should start as a vassal to Spain, so it may slowly grow more and more powerful.

Peruvian UHV Ideas:
-Control 4 Gold Resources in 1800 (via trade or mines)
-No European Colonies in South America in 1900
-Control South America in 1950 (be the only country with cities in South America)

Not sure about Brazil. I'll figure it out later.

@merijn v1: OK, I didn't know that about the UU and UB being (un-unique?), I did about the UP. I'm just lost for ideas. Wait.. I got one. As for the UHV, I know it's terrible, but same, lost for ideas.

How about..

UB:
Operahaus/Opera Theatre:
3 :culture:, 1 :) per 20% :culture:, 2 Great Artist Points

So a Theatre with GA points. Is 2 enough? Or more? Or less?

UU:
Jaeger: (replaces rifleman)
12 Strength, +75% when attacking Gunpowder Units

So a riflemen, minus 2 strength, minus bonus vs. mounted units, plus bonus vs. riflemen. Used by the Austrians in WWI. Should it be Gunpowder units or Riflemen?

UP:
Power of Patronage: +2 :culture: for every cultural building

Includes any building producing culture, except for anything made cultural by a random event.

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

(Didn't change anything because I'm confused about what you said BurnEmDown)

@BurnEmDown: For the Dutch one, did you mean have one of each luxury resource? That sounds pretty good, I guess. For how realistic it is, I have no idea. I wouldn't know. :p

@All: I hope I incorporated everyone's ideas and have fixed all the flaws.

UB: Nice. But 2 is maybe overpowered. (But fun) Or the RFCEurope version. Remove +3:culture: (or reduse it to 1) and give it +10%:culture: and +1:) and +1:) with Hit Singles.

UU: This makes it too weak. I think the one in RFCEurope is nice. Currasier (something) with 50% against gun, melee, archer. I think this is too strong so I propose +25% attack vs. those. Or give the cavalry this bonusses.

Dutch UHV of Burn: Nice. It's pretty historic. (And I should now it, I'm Dutch;))

Italy

Leader:
Vittorio Emanuele II
Mussolini

Spawn Date
1860

UP
Power of the Opera:
Creates a Theater in every built or conquered city.
or
Power of the Architectonic Heritage(?)
+2 culture and +1 happiness in every city.

UB
Pizzeria: replaces Grocer
+1 Happiness
or
Football Stadium: replaces coliseum
+1 Happiness and 1 more with football (from Wembley)

UU
Alpino: Replaces Rifleman
Starts with Guerrilla and/or Woodsman
or
Carabiniere: Replaces Rifleman
+50% city defense or +2 first strikes

UHV
1: Never lose a city in the european territory until 2000
2: Control at least 2(more?) cities in each Horn of Africa,Etiopia and Libya in 1920(40?)
3: Control Greece and Indochina in 1945 (never achieved)
or
3:Be the most powerful european civilization in 1945 (first in scoreboard)

sorry for bad grammar :)

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

I don't like the Austrian exclusion here, how about just 3 European Civlizations?

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

I like these except forcing them to have a civic. UHV's are victory conditions not restrictions.

Expansionist would be something like -
1. Control Korea and the Philippines by 1650
2. Vassalize China by 1700
3. Control Indonesia and Oceania (Polynesia, perhaps Australia and New Zealand) by 1850

Isolationist would be -
1. Have no open borders and no foreign trade routes in 1650
2. Have no foreign culture in Japan in 1700
3. Do not expand outside your spawn area before 1850

The first one is too aggressive, whilst the second is a list of restrictions rather than achievements. Personally I think the Current UHV's are OK. :)

@Bonci, thanks for the Italian contribution. I will add them to the front page later, first I want to see which of your options people like the most. :)

Although I have some suggestions for the UHV's, how about swapping the second one with 'Control 8 cities on the Mediterranean Sea'?

Lastly, for the French UHV's as we have 2 about Louisiana and Canada, how about swapping one for controlling West Africa?

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Bonci: I think the first 3rd UHV is better. Being the highest score European nation feels kind of generic, while controlling Indochina sounds intriguing.

I don't like the Austrian exclusion here, how about just 3 European Civlizations?

Well, the point of it is to represent the Austrian-Spanish Hapsburg alliance, however, it would make little difference since Austria's so far away. I suppose it's up to you.

I like these except forcing them to have a civic. UHV's are victory conditions not restrictions.

Yeah, fair enough. Perhaps Austria should start a capitulated vassal of Germany. As Austria in the beginning was just an extension of the HRE or Germany or whatever it was at the time, I'm fairly sure.

1st Austrian UHV:
-Break free of German rule and control Germany by 1800 AD (sounds fun to me:cool:)
-Be the first in score in 1850 AD (realistic, depending on how you look at it, but not as cool)
-Be the first to reach the Modern Era (not sure, but may be true:confused:)

Lastly, for the French UHV's as we have 2 about Louisiana and Canada, how about swapping one for controlling West Africa?

How about..

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Have exclusive control of West Africa and South East Asia by 1900 AD

3 means no other country has cities in West Africa (unless they are your vassal), and you must have at least 6 cities in it, if it includes NW Africa, 4 if only the Mali area. As for South East Asia, Khmer area, from Singapore to Hanoi and Pagan. Requires 4 cities in SE Asia.

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Maybe replace one of these(for Britain):
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have 3 non-European vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era
with:
-Control China and South-East Asia in X (someone else figure it out)
-Control East Asia, India, South Africa, Hudson's Bay and Australia by X (around 1800?)
-Vassalize India, China, Canada and Australia (requires getting rid of 2)
-Control X% of the world in 1730 AD, with at least one city on every continent (requires getting rid of 1)
-Have 4/5 non-European vassals in 1950 AD (requires getting rid of 2)
?

I don't know, someone else think of something!! :cry:

Controlling China and South-East Asia would be either 1842 (end of first Opium War) or 1860 (end of second Opium War).

@Kairob: You're right about the Japanese UHVs. I would like to see a colonial Japan though.

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Perhaps there should be some kind of mechanic where a non-European nation can grant a European nation control of one of its cities without affecting culture and boundaries (though I don't know if this is at all possible). With Japan, though, giving Portugal one of your cities is quite a setback - the AI seems to found more cities than I do, but I usually only have 3 or 4 cities in Japan including Sapporo.

@Jiim: One of England's UHVs definitely should involve controlling India somehow. Just a suggestion (and probably not a good idea), maybe one could involve defeating the American Revolution. I like the control X% of the world, it might be easier to say 'have the most land area in 1750' or 1850 or something (but that's a rather different goal).

British and French AI should be more prone to founding cities on small Pacific islands, and something should be added to make that a more rewarding choice.

BTW if you write a UHV about vassalizing other civs (especially specific ones) you should add "or control" since sometimes these civs could collapse and then the UHV is pretty much doomed. If the critera includes "or control" this gives the player an option to still get the UHV even if the target civ as collapsed, or maybe if he wants to control the area himself (for example India might be a nice spot to control yourself, especially after Biology).

@Bonci, thanks for the Italian contribution. I will add them to the front page later, first I want to see which of your options people like the most. :)

Although I have some suggestions for the UHV's, how about swapping the second one with 'Control 8 cities on the Mediterranean Sea'?


ummm I tried to create 2 UHV's that Italy achieved in reality and one that they didn't managed to accomplish...historically Italy had a colonial empire that included Libya,Eritrea,Somalia and Etiopia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Impero_Italiano.png
Sorry the pic is in italian...but in green there are the territories of the italian colonial empire and in blue the territories that they tried to conquer

If you think that it's better to have 2 "aspirational" UHV's then I think your proposal is ok :)

Oh I was wondering if there could be the possibility to have an italian Resurgence or something like that :) that would be awesome :D

Just some thoughts...

Japan
- Have 3/4 cities (basically all the cities you place in Japan need "x" amount of culture) with more than x amount of culture in 1800 (Means you have to quickly unite Japan then focus on culture not science, which simulates their stagnation)
- Have the most techs in asia in 1910 (So you have to quickly switch to a science focus)
- Control the entire Pacific coast south of and including Vladivostok (ie includes Vladivostok, should Russia found it) along Asia and (possibly) Australia in 1950
With a changed UP
The power of specialisation (or something along those lines)
- All specialists give double yields (Makes mercentism more rewarding, allows a quick switch from culture focus to science focus)

Qing China
- Control all of China by 1650 (perhaps too early, depends on gameplay)
- Control and have a majority population in 2 holy cities (If you have Taosim in the mod then 3, but I don't think you've kept it in...) by 1920 (Assuming you make the Buddhist Holy city Lhasa, since Buddhism had largely gone from India...)
- Have the highest culture in the world in 1915 (To give Japan a tech advantage mostly, since otherwise this probably won't happen...)
UP - The power of the nomad - barbarians do not enter your territory. Mostly because Ming dynasty is going to have multiple sources of problems, including (I'd assume) heavy barb invasions from the north. This way those barbs won't wipe out the Qing (but later the Chinese rebels civ might)...

Ottomans and Persia should both have control Mesopotamia in 1650 (or thereabouts). Just to make them arch rivals, even more than before. Persia should be able to rush Mesopotamia before the Ottomans get there (as in reality) so a later date helps the Ottomans while the earlier date helps the Persians. Perhaps make the Persian UU an extra move, just to make it alittle easier to rush Mesopotamia ;) Don't like the Sunni islam in Persia though...Perhaps Control the historical area of the Ottoman Empire in 1920 (ie after WWI, if we can get WWI working properly that is)

I'd really like to see the American UHV involve Manifest destiny and protecting France too (which would be a real challenge)...

Sweden should have controlling the Baltic as a UHV condition too...And something to make landing units on the continent easier like Amphibious promotion...

I'm an Aussie but even I don't know what we've tried to acheive historically :P Like have friendly relations with the US and the UK in 2000 AD...UB could be Cricket Grounds though, we have them in all our major cities (But this would be too similar to the Canadian UB...)
Actually a UHV condition could be to make the Vietnam war happen...since apparently we're the ones that convinced the US that the march of Communism would continue through Vietnam to the rest of SE asia...which for us would be errr undesirable...

Also don't know about the #3 conditions for France and Spain...Perhaps for Spain have control the Phillipines and Cuba in 1900 (and a condition for America to go against that, to force a Spanish-America war). France could be to have the most territory in Africa in 1900 too...

@Bonci - Your right it is usually 2 things they achieved and one they didn't, however some countries were more successful in their goals than others. The losing parties of the World Wars likely had very high ambitions that were unrealised, as such we have to use a little leniency in choosing UHVs for civs with untapped potential (Like the Aztec and Incan UHVs in Rhye), I thought (although, again this isn't my best era of history) that the ambitions of Italy early on was the restoration of the Med as a 'Mare Nostrum'.

@dagriggstar - I quite like most of your ideas, but remember that AI don't go for UHV's so we can't use them to force AI behavior, Other than that some very good suggestions.

Also at least one of the Australia UHVs should be to get a high population by the mid-late nineties, as after WWII the Australian Government realised they had to increase their population and started a program of increased immigration from Europe.

These are just suggestions, bad ones, as I know little about Australia.

Australian UHV Ideas:
-Control Japan in 1945 (victory over Japan?)
-Control South-East Asia (Vietnam) by X (not sure of the date)
-Every civilization must be "Pleased" with you by 2000
-Average city size of X by Y
-Highest population by X

UP:
Power of Survival: Cities cannot go below 3 population points

UB:
Sports Complex? (replace Amphitheatre)
Adds happiness?

Hostel or Immigration Office? (replaces Customs House or whatever it is :p)
Acts as a mini-American-UP, drawing in immigrants

UU:
No idea.

Gotta go... sleepy time.

Mexico UHVs:

Control California, and the South part of the Rockies (Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico) at 1900.
Lose no city to USA, till 2000.
Leave no European cities in C. America or Carribean in 1950.
Build the Panama Canal (wonder?)
Have at least 6 hospitals, to avoid spread of the swine flu!!!!! :D

UU: Something partisan-style.
UB: Dunno

Mexico UHVs:

Have at least 6 hospitals, to avoid spread of the swine flu!!!!! :D

Or have no pigs and a :health:/:yuck:-ratio of +5 (or -3) in all cities untill 2000. ;)

I don't think Australia should have military based UHV's, considering the only major role it played in a war was WWII in denying the Japanese Papua New Guniea...(So your looking at something around controlling PNG in 1950)

Like the population thing ;) Though maybe a tad earlier than 2000

Vietnam doesn't really work since there's no SE asian civ...

Have a 5 star economy in 2000 ? Since apparently economists think we have a kind of miracle economy...

UP
Power of abundant resources
Each resource controlled counts as 2 resources (ie if you control 2 cows, this has the effect of you have 4 cows)
or
Increased trade routes

UU - ANZAC (Infantry) - negative 50xp needed for promotions

maybe one of the australian UHV's should be something like: don't let japan have colonies in oceania in 1945

I thought (although, again this isn't my best era of history) that the ambitions of Italy early on was the restoration of the Med as a 'Mare Nostrum'.


yep...under fascism this was one of the italian ambitions...so in WW2 they tried to conquer Albania and Greece (epic fail *_*)

I
UP
Power of abundant resources
Each resource controlled counts as 2 resources (ie if you control 2 cows, this has the effect of you have 4 cows)
or
Increased trade routes

UU - ANZAC (Infantry) - negative 50xp needed for promotions

UP: The 1st one is WAY too strong. I definitly prefer the 2nd.

UU: An UU should have a bonus. Not a restriction. You can give it double speed. (nice for the deserts)

That is a bonus. The bonus is that it takes half as much xp to promote. At least that's my understanding of it. Though it's really oddly formatted, I assume that's what he's trying to say.

That is a bonus. The bonus is that it takes half as much xp to promote. At least that's my understanding of it. Though it's really oddly formatted, I assume that's what he's trying to say.

Yea he's got the idea. Works like the charismatic trait in regular civ (-25xp needed to promote)

A UU with Amphibious assault would be useful for an island nation...

A UU with Amphibious assault would be useful for an island nation...

true but we haven't made alot of amphibious landings...and when we have well errrr...

Gallipoli...

Yeah, that's definitely not a trait I would give to an Australian UU. Their amphibious assault success is pretty bad >.>

Maybe Japan? They had a lot of success in their expansion with taking islands and coastal areas. Really, their only success was on islands and coasts pre-getting their asses handed to them by the UN.

Japans UP doesnt really need to change.

I agree. I'm not really a big fan of changing much from Vanilla unless it's necessary. I was merely pointing out a UU that could be amphibious.

Don't the Vikings have amphibious something or other anyway?

That is a bonus. The bonus is that it takes half as much xp to promote. At least that's my understanding of it. Though it's really oddly formatted, I assume that's what he's trying to say.

Sorry, I thought you said it needed 50% more exp. because you said Australia shouldn't have a military unit.

In bold my proposed changes from Bonci's



Italy

Leaders:
Cavour
Vittorio Emanuele II
Mussolini
note: I couldn't find the end date, so there might be room for more

Spawn Date
1848

UP
Power of the Art:
free artist in every city

UB

no pizza mandolino or football, PLEASE. What about:
Textile Factory, +2 culture
+5% production (or commerce) from wool, cotton and silk.


UU
Bersagliere:
Replaces Rifleman
prod cost 100 (-10)
strength 13 (-1)
starts with mobility, guerrilla I
(no bonus vs cavalry)

UHV
pretty hard without knowing the end date, anyways I think something with culture is due here
1: Be the most cultural civ in 1920 and in ??? (see above about end date).
2: Control 12 (based on current RFC earth map) cities on the mediterranean by 1950.
3a: win at least 5 football world championships.
3b: control X colonies in the world
3c: be the first to discover Radio, Fascism, Fission (I'd propose Ecology as well for an ironical and unachieved goal ;) ).

UU
Bersagliere:
Replaces Rifleman
prod cost 100 (-10)
strength 13 (-1)
starts with mobility, guerrilla I
(no bonus vs cavalry)

IMO this is too weak. I propose give it only the the guerilla I as bonus and nothing more or less. And why mobility? You can use that because you always have 1:move: (or you want to give it 2:move: and didn't say it in your post)

that's right, I forgot about it. Then 2 mov might make sense... anyways mobility is the main characteristic of Bersaglieri.

Leaders:
Cavour

umm yeah...not shure if he can be considered a leader...but he shurely had a large role in the italian unification


UP
Power of the Art:
free artist in every city

in first i had the same idea...but then i thought: how many italian artist came AFTER unification? time of patronage was over...


UB
no pizza mandolino or football, PLEASE. What about:
Textile Factory, +2 culture
+5% production (or commerce) from wool, cotton and silk.

hahaha yep pizza and football are stereotypes :P but we are known in the world for that XD however your proposal is better than mine :)


UU
Bersagliere:
Replaces Rifleman
prod cost 100 (-10)
strength 13 (-1)
starts with mobility, guerrilla I
(no bonus vs cavalry)

yes this was the third choice :)
maybe better if only with mobility but with bonus against other riflemen?

UHV
1: Be the most cultural civ in 1920 and in ??? (see above about end date).

good idea

3a: win at least 5 football world championships.

:lol:

3b: control X colonies in the world

i think in this case it's better my proposal...

3c: be the first to discover Radio, Fascism, Fission (I'd propose Ecology as well for an ironical and unachieved goal ;) ).
this one is very good too

sorry for the lenght :shifty:

in first i had the same idea...but then i thought: how many italian artist came AFTER unification? time of patronage was over...


More than one would think at first thought. Italians were at the top in cinema. Some italian songs on the first half of the past century are known in the whole world. Several italian stylists (it's something that contributes to culture after all) are well known worldwide. Several composers as well and some writers, although surely not comparable to the previous centuries, but still. In the arts of painting and sculpting Italy has been lacking from the unification, but consider that these two categories themselves saw a high decline in popularity and results in general, IMHO.

More than one would think at first thought. Italians were at the top in cinema. Some italian songs on the first half of the past century are known in the whole world. Several italian stylists (it's something that contributes to culture after all) are well known worldwide. Several composers as well and some writers, although surely not comparable to the previous centuries, but still. In the arts of painting and sculpting Italy has been lacking from the unification, but consider that these two categories themselves saw a high decline in popularity and results in general, IMHO.

Agree, Italian film was VERY influential in the mid-20th century.

ummm maybe you are right...probably i am too tied to the old concept of artist XD
but we can't say that italy was better than many other countryes like it was in the renaissance...not enough to justify a UP i think @_@

onedreamer, I like your suggestions, in regards to your question the end date will in all probability be 2050, because of this, we could probably have a Leader for the post WWII era, who do you think would be best?

i would say Alcide De Gasperi or Aldo Moro

Yep, I was thinking of De Gasperi as well.

ummm maybe you are right...probably i am too tied to the old concept of artist XD
but we can't say that italy was better than many other countryes like it was in the renaissance...not enough to justify a UP i think @_@

Yeah, you are right when talking of art. I was actually thinking more of culture than art but then came up with that idea. The power could be changed in name and give +4 culture per city (no free artist which would also mean free GPP). Although a young and relatively small nation, you have to recognize that many aspects of the italian culture have spread worldwide since its unification (also thanks to emigration). From food (which was partly in your proposal), to architectural heritage (again in your proposals), to cinema, textile industry, and even in the sport (partly in your proposal), which has played a big role in modern era culture, Italy did manage to get known despite the numbers being against it. If you consider any of the 19th and 20th century born countries in Europe and even great part of the oldest european nations, you won't find many of them being worldwide famous in that many cultural aspects... at least to my observations, I may be biased correct me if I'm wrong.

yep i agree with you :) so maybe the name of the UP could be "The power of Cultural Heritage" and give +4 culture per city ;) this would be useful for the cultural UHV

oh and the bersaglieri seems a bit underpowered in my opinion...maybe it should be changed a bit

well, think of two movements combined with mobility and guerrilla, then think of the italian geography (lots of hills, especially at its borders), I think they work. Without penalizing their strenght they would be too strong IMO, and they are lightly equipped.

well, think of two movements combined with mobility and guerrilla, then think of the italian geography (lots of hills, especially at its borders), I think they work. Without penalizing their strenght they would be too strong IMO, and they are lightly equipped.

So a rifflemen with allways 2 movement (except with road offcourse) and guerilla. And offcourse the bonus against mounted units. (IMO the should get it.)

Australia

UHV:

1. Control 12 mined resources within your territory by 1950

2. Every civilization must be “Pleased” with you by 1970

3a. Be the richest country in the world in 1980
3b. No colonies in Australia/Oceania in 1980/1950
----------
UP:
Power of Islands/the Island:
+2 :traderoute: in every coastal city

OR

Power of Miners/Mines:
Every mine produces +1 :hammers: and +1 :commerce:

OR

Power of Survival:
No city's population can drop below 3/5
----------
UB:
Visa Station: Customs House
Draws in immigrants from 5 poorest countries
----------
UU:
ANZAC: Infantry
Half XP required for promotions
___________________________

That seem like a good Australia to you guys? Obviously, I think so, but I'm very open to criticism, and even more so, compliments. :D
___________________________

Samurai seems a bit late for the era in which this game takes place. So does the Cho-Ko-Nu. IMO both should be replaced. Also, I think this would be a prime opportunity to replace the Punjabi Worker, since it's usefulness is much less now that India will already be colonized and well developed. Some ideas:
--------------
Japan:

Zero: Fighter
14 :strength:
Can bomb city defenses (-15%/turn)
Can destroy city improvements
Can intercept aircraft (100% chance)
Costs 75 :hammers:
6 :move:

Reasoning: None. I don't know anything about Zeroes. Just putting it out there. :p
--------------
India:

Rajputana Rifles: Rifleman
2 :move:
15 strength
25% vs. Mounted Units

Reasoning: A famous feat was marching from Quetta to Kandahar in 5 days. Also won most battles they were in. While they were used during WW2, it would be more accurate to represent them during their beginning and prime as riflemen. (WAS NOT COPYING OFF ITALY, didn't see that until now.. :blush:)
--------------
China:

Unfortunately, no ideas. :(
--------------
Anyways, all just ideas, sorry for long post. Anyone got any better ideas for anything I suggested? Or criticisms/compliments? Please express them. :D

That seem like a good Australia to you guys? Obviously, I think so, but I'm very open to criticism, and even more so, compliments.

Finally! Some inspiring Australia ideas! Yes it seems like a good Australia but I doo have a couple of comments...

About your UHV's
I like the mines one, is mining important in Australia? I don't like the 'be pleased with everyone' criteria, it seems too hard. How about open borders with 10 civs? As for the third criteria, I prefer 'No Euro Cities in Australasia' to the first one.

You UPs I like a lot. They are all very unique and any that we don't use I might recycle for another civ. ;)

I like your UB, but how would the immigration mechanism work? The way it goes for the USA is rather complex, it might be easier for it to be a Custom House that add 2 population to the city? Either that or +2 food...

Lastly the UU, whats the logic behind the extra experience?

I like the mines one, is mining important in Australia?

Yes, I'm pretty sure. The reason I have that is that mainland Australia has 10 mined resources, and then it would force growth onto surrounding islands.

I don't like the 'be pleased with everyone' criteria, it seems too hard. How about open borders with 10 civs?

I didn't want to reuse the Canadian AND Portuguese one, but that could work. Be “Friendly” with 5 civs OR be “Pleased” with 10 civs? Both would be hard, but fun and possible. Either one of those or the open borders one.

As for the third criteria, I prefer 'No Euro Cities in Australasia' to the first one.

The main point was to both remove Japanese power, but I thought that would be too easy so I added Europe too. Perhaps, “No European or Japanese cities in Australasia”?

You UPs I like a lot. They are all very unique and any that we don't use I might recycle for another civ. ;)

Thanks a lot! :D

I like your UB, but how would the immigration mechanism work? The way it goes for the USA is rather complex, it might be easier for it to be a Custom House that add 2 population to the city? Either that or +2 food...

+2 food would be OK, I suppose, if it's too difficult for the other idea. Maybe 3+ food.

Lastly the UU, whats the logic behind the extra experience?

I would ask whoever came up with that idea I had no idea of my own, so I took his. It's in this thread.. you could find it on some page or another. If you don't like it I could look at ones from the "New Civilizations" forum. :) In fact.. here you go:

Digger: Marine
24 :strength:
1 :move:
+50% Attack vs. Artillery
+50% Attack vs. Machine Gun
Starts with: Ambush, March

Leaders:
Curtin
Menzies

As for the third criteria, I prefer 'No Euro Cities in Australasia' to the first one.
The main point was to both remove Japanese power, but I thought that would be too easy so I added Europe too. Perhaps, “No European or Japanese cities in Australasia”?

How about 'No foreign cities'?

But.. but that was the original thing... :sad: but I suppose you put it better. Then, Digger or ANZAC?

Mining is very important in Aus, brill UHV condition. We basically supply China, China makes into stuff and exports it to US, US just looses money :P But yea the mining industry here is pretty big driver of the economy...

Logic behind the less xp for promote is that generally once battle hardened Aussie troops have been very effective. Really against any type of Marine UU since we errr suck at amphibious landings..."digger" usually refers to the blokes who fought WWI when our main "contribution" was Gallipoli (though outside Gallipoli we did pretty well). I think an ANZAC unit replacing infantry would be better, fighting back the Japs along the Kokoda trail in PNG and denying them the landing strips needed to bomb the major cities. It's the only real time we've actually had to defend our homeland...

Brazil

LEADERS
Dom Pedro

DATE
1820

POWER
The Power of Rainforest: Lumbermills can be build in Jungles and provide +1 Food and Commerce in addition to usual benefits

BUILDING
Football Club: Replaces Amphitheatre, +10% Gold production (like the American Mall)

UNIT
Amazon Guard: Replaces Infantry, starts with Woodsman 1,2,3.

UHV
1. Control Argentina in X AD. (1900?)
2. Advance to the Modern Era by X AD. (1950?)
3. Build 10 Football Clubs by X AD. (1950?)

Aren't there problems in current Brazil because of massive deforestation? I have the feeling that they prefer to cut the forest downs instead of exploiting them as with "lumbermills". The UP could be to get a production bonus when cutting down jungle, although it feels underpowered. I don't know exactly how has the Amazonian forest contibuted to Brazil's history, anyway. Actually, I think your suggested UP is good, even if possibly not accurate.

The UHVs are ok, but if I may suggest two other ideas:

-Build Cristo Redentor by X AD (1931 = real date; it would include your "advance to the modern era" as well)

-Be the most populous Christian/Catholic nation in the world in X AD (accurate, but it would mean they ought to be sure to be Catholic, i.e. with a missionary at start; alternatively, just be the most populous country regardless of religion).

Did Brazil have any pretentions on Argentina?

Aren't there problems in current Brazil because of massive deforestation? I have the feeling that they prefer to cut the forest downs instead of exploiting them as with "lumbermills". The UP could be to get a production bonus when cutting down jungle, although it feels underpowered. I don't know exactly how has the Amazonian forest contibuted to Brazil's history, anyway. Actually, I think your suggested UP is good, even if possibly not accurate.

The UHVs are ok, but if I may suggest two other ideas:

-Build Cristo Redentor by X AD (1931 = real date; it would include your "advance to the modern era" as well)

-Be the most populous Christian/Catholic nation in the world in X AD (accurate, but it would mean they ought to be sure to be Catholic, i.e. with a missionary at start; alternatively, just be the most populous country regardless of religion).

Did Brazil have any pretentions on Argentina?

1. Yeah, you're right, but deforestation is only a recent thing (i.e. from the late 20th century on). The main point of the UP is to help Brazil cope with the huge number of jungle tiles in their area.
2. That sounds smart and better
3. That sounds good
4. Not really

India

LEADERS
Gandhi

DATE
1940

POWER
The Power of Vegetarianism: Cities grow faster and cereals give more health

BUILDING
Mausoleum

UNIT
Gorkha: Replaces Infantry, starts with Combat I and Medic I

UHV
1. No foreign cities in the Indian Subcontinent in 1970 AD. (this obviously works best if their spawn area excludes some of the subcontinent)
2. Top 3 in population in 2000 AD - either among civs or among world cities.
3. Control 5 nuclear missiles in 2000 AD.

The Brazil UU you proposed (panopticon) is too strong. I propose only woodsmen 1 and maybe 2.

What do you mean by your 2nd Indian UHV??? Most pop in 2000AD?

It seems like 90% of the UU's here are Riflemen or Infantry or Marine replacement. The mod's gonna introduce new unit types, so I think it's best for now to just wait until these units are included and then it'll be easier to think of more unique UU's instead of just Infantry with promotions.

It seems like 90% of the UU's here are Riflemen or Infantry or Marine replacement. The mod's gonna introduce new unit types, so I think it's best for now to just wait until these units are included and then it'll be easier to think of more unique UU's instead of just Infantry with promotions.

I agree. And I think this is the same as for the buildings.

It seems like 90% of the UU's here are Riflemen or Infantry or Marine replacement. The mod's gonna introduce new unit types, so I think it's best for now to just wait until these units are included and then it'll be easier to think of more unique UU's instead of just Infantry with promotions.

But it puts the idea out there, so that later the UU can replace a new unit, and doesn't waste with this process all over again. However...

@kairob: I do think that a new unit/building/wonder/techtree thread should be opened up, so that this process can be more historical. But, you cannot come up with units/buildings/wonders alone, it requires making a full and complete tech, with all its benefits and obsoletes, its prerequisite techs and following techs (if it comes before a tech that's already out there) and if applicable the tech it replaces.

eg.
Early Rifling: Replaces Rifling
Same requirements as Rifling
Can build:

Early Rifleman:
12 :strength:
+25% vs. Gunpowder Units
Requires Saltpeter

AND

Fireworks: Replaces Gunpowder
Same requirements as Gunpowder

Reveals:
Saltpeter

Allows:
Saltpeter

+1 :) in all cities with saltpeter
_________

Now that might not be a great example, but that's how posts should work, if you were to make such a thread, to ensure that there is not an excess of units and buildings without techs to call their home. :D If not, forgive me, but I sincerely think we need a thread like that.

It seems like 90% of the UU's here are Riflemen or Infantry or Marine replacement. The mod's gonna introduce new unit types, so I think it's best for now to just wait until these units are included and then it'll be easier to think of more unique UU's instead of just Infantry with promotions.

So what? None of these are going to be in the final game anyway, because unique powers, units, buildings and historical victories will have to be implemented, tested and balanced once there is a working scenario to playtest. So it's just a base line from which to do more work later. If we take the attitude that the tech-unit tree has to precede every element of civ design, we may as well do no work on anything including the tech-unit tree itself until we know what the new, fundamental mechanics of colonisation and decolonisation are going to look like.

A strategic resource that gives happiness? Perhaps a building should make it give happiness later on, but on its own it shouldn't give happiness.
Also what do you mean "allows Saltpeter". I'm guessing as in build an improvement that will provide Saltpeter, but if that's the case then reveals does the same thing, so allows is not necessary.
Edit: Just saw now that you added it as an example of how it should look like, so ignore what I just said :P
@pan: Well we should talk about things that will make it easy to start coding, major things like the ages, tech tree, civics (even if just names) civs, new features, the map. But some things which go into great detail should be left out till later, for example we're not discussing about some civ's name maps, since that wouldn't benefit us much.
All I'm saying is lets focus on the big things and even right after the first test is out we could focus on the little things. (In RFC:E for example, in the first test, most civs didn't have complete UHVs and few had no UP's).

A strategic resource that gives happiness? Perhaps a building should make it give happiness later on, but on its own it shouldn't give happiness.
Also what do you mean "allows Saltpeter". I'm guessing as in build an improvement that will provide Saltpeter, but if that's the case then reveals does the same thing, so allows is not necessary.

The tech is called "Fireworks"... I don't know about you, but they always make me happy. And once the Chinese discovered Maybe first there could be "Gunpowder", revealing and allowing saltpeter, but not giving it any use. Also, Ivory is both a luxurious and strategic resource.

No.. oil is revealed before it can be welled, so "allows" is necessary. If I just said "revealed" it would mean that the saltpeter might add small bonuses to the plot, but you couldn't build an improvement to provide it.

Gunpowder: Replaces Gunpowder (:lol:)
Requires Education

Reveals:
Saltpeter

Allows:
Saltpeter

AND

Fireworks:
Requires Gunpowder

+1 :) with Saltpeter

Fireworks Station/Hut:
We Love the Despot/President/etc. Days provide 1 imaginary population point, which causes no extra :mad: or :yuck:, but allows to work one more plot or specialist
We Love the Despot/President/etc. Days occur more often
+1 :)
Requires Saltpeter

AND

Early Muskets:
Requires Gunpowder
Requires Guilds

Can build:

Early Musketman:
8 :strength:
1 :move:
+50% City Defense
Requires Saltpeter

OK, I was double checking your post, and apparently you made an edit. But I put too much work into this post to just trash it. Here it is anyways. :lol:

Oh, yeah, forgot about Ivory :P
Well Ivory is a really minor strategic resources, it only allows 1 unit.
Saltpeter on the other hand would be like Iron or Copper, allowing a unit that is generally stronger than other units of it's era, so it's strong enough of it's own without happiness bonuses.
Yes fireworks make people happy, and used on occasions of national celebrations more often (independence days and the like) so extra citizen during "we love the" or these days happening more often sounds right. BTW the extra citizen could cause sickness or unhappiness since cities only get these events if they have a lot more happy and healthy people than angry and sick people, so 1 more in each wouldn't matter.

Feel free to discuss it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8409480#post8409480

I will keep the front page updated with the consensus of the thread.

Australia UHV

- Export 7 resources (most likely candidates - Uranium, Iron, Wine, Gold, Coal, Sheep and Aluminium) in 2000
Why ? - Reflects the trade policies of Aus. We have trade agreements with the US, Japan, China, India, Russia...list goes on, but those are some pretty big markets. More Uranium here than anywhere else, big metal and wine exports to China, Large coal reserves, Sheep historically important). Problem is adding all those resources to Aus, which is essentially a desert continent. Although you can put some of that stuff in the desert...

Sign 3 Defensive pacts by 2000 (Possibly form a "Coalition" or 3-way alliance eg UK, US, Aus if that gets complicated since def pact is cancelled if one member declares war)
Why ? - ANZUS treaty, in the past there's been others (eg Indonesia I'm pretty sure) I'm sure there's others. Also might force you into an unwanted war (In reality this could be Iraq). Something that's not "open borders" (too many others have that) or "pleased" attitude etc.

Build an Olympic Park, a National Park and an Opera House by 1950.
Why ? - Hosted two Olympic games (Melb. 1956, Syd 2000)
- Kakadu national park/Uluru national park. Kakadu was really established in the 80's, Urulu well...tourism started in the 40's I think...
- Sydney Opera house (1973)
If that is too easy then Change the Olympic park wonder to require 4 Ampitheatres (Sports stadiums). Bigger countries tend to get the Olympics anyway. Too difficult and just move the date back.

UP
Power of resources
Other civs are willing to pay more :gold: in exchange for your resources
Why ? - See strategy section...

Strategy
Early - The focus is those nat. wonders. They should be so early you can't really build alot else (like the Maya UHV, where you have to beeline Calendar, then Code of Laws, then start building that wonder straight away). You'll need the three in three different cities to suceed here too (Prob syd, melb and bris). If Brits don't found Adelaide and Perth though they take priority. You'll need Perth and Adelaide (possibly also Darwin) for those desert resources. They'll need :culture: (Adelaide will likely be low pop high :culture: city, that way you can get those desert resources. Reflecting reality, Adelaide "The city of Churches") since the sooner you get those desert resources hooked up the better (trade them, get your economy going). Brits will prob. get you involved in a war at some point (in reality - WWI) but its only an issue if its against Japan/China. You should be able to get through any early wars by way of other British territories (mainly India) taking care of Asian affairs. As the British empire declines you'll need to fight for yourself increasingly, towards the end zone of that first UHV condition you'll be fighting someone at your doorstep. If your trade routes are cut off you'll die a slow and painful death (No economy). (Japanese strategy for dealing with Australia should be to cut off trade routes rather than try to take the island. As it was in reality). You'll need to hold off the numerically superior Japanese (so take good defensive positions...) until someone comes saves you (in reality America and they'll prob. be the only ones who could help you here too...so suck up to them!). Once you deal with Japan, things get interesting. You'll probably by now have polarised relations with the AI. This makes it difficult for you to find new trades, which means if say, your trading Uranium to America, but they hook up a new source and cancel the deal, you won't have many options. Also, if you trade with say your allies enemies, then you both a) - make a potential war opponent stronger and b) - suffer worse relations and therefore AI could cancel that def pact you need for the UHV. You'll have some more wars no doubt, so will need to keep up tech wise, so will need :gold: from trade (your land is mostly desert anyway, so unlikely to ever have alot of locally generated :gold: )



UHV Condition one might be a given considering you'll need to be trading alot of resources anyway to run a decent economy...

What is RFC:I? nvm, RFC Imperium

EDIT Stuff
@Brazil; they aren't cutting the forests, they are burning them,
@Australia; how about UP: the Outback, you can put preserves on desert and they give +1 commerce, that's Unique right?
@India; the power of Vegetarianism, decrease food needed to grow by 25% double food from grain and no healthiness from pig or cow (as they aren't eaten in India, especially beef)

@Brazil; they aren't cutting the forests, they are burning them,
True, but I am running out of ideas for their UP.

@Australia; how about UP: the Outback, you can put preserves on desert and they give +1 commerce, that's Unique right?
Correct it is unique, it is however also useless. some tiles give 0 food, 0 production but 1 commerce? Who would ever use that tile over a specialist?

@India; the power of Vegetarianism, decrease food needed to grow by 25% double food from grain and no healthiness from pig or cow (as they aren't eaten in India, especially beef)
This is an interesting idea, I'll think on it. :)


Thanks for your input by the way. :) More ideas are always welcome.

but it would solve happiness issues too

The Preserve on the Desert? No it wouldn't as you only get the +1 :) if you work the tile, so the amount of extra :) would only be the same as the amount of wasted citizens so it wouldn't really be much of a net gain. I don't mind something to do with the Bush but this mechanism doesn't seem to work in my opinion.

As for Brazils UP there could be:

Power of the Monopoly:
-extra trade route per city.
also possible
-trade routes even with closed borders (since monopoly forces everyone to trade with you ;))

cause they had a caoutchouc monopoly for some time till someone managed it to export one plant illegal.

or

Power of Goverments:
-no Anarchy between Civic change (maybe only betwen Gov Civics)

since Brazil had a lot of Goverment changes in their history ;)

Power of Goverments:
-no Anarchy between Civic change (maybe only betwen Gov Civics)

since Brazil had a lot of Goverment changes in their history ;)

I'm in support of this. I personally feel India's UP should be changed in regular RFC and "Spirituality" should be moved to a later-spawning civ (though, how fitting would it be). When is Brazil spawning anyway?

i'm in support of this. I personally feel india's up should be changed in regular rfc and "spirituality" should be moved to a later-spawning civ (though, how fitting would it be). When is brazil spawning anyway?

1820!

Brazil spawns in 1549 as a vassal of whoever controls most cities in the region. It then gains independence in 1822 if it has not done so already. The system for independence will change to be more complicated in later versions but with my poor coding experience I am sticking with a simple method for the time being.

I think this is the best place but for Dynamic Names I suggest....

Germany:
Kingdom of Prussia(since the HRE was falling apart and historcally HRE's capital wasn't Berlin)
Democratic Republic of Germany(should be Russian vassal name instead)
Socialist Republic of Germany(running SP)
Pretty much the rest should be fine

Austria:
Austrian Kingdom
Austro-Hungarian Alliance(for the "_______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Republic of Austria
(don't know what a good name for Austria running PS would be)
Dominion of Austria
Viceroyalty of Austria
Departments of Austria
German Protectorate of Austria
Soviet Austria
-or-
Russian Protectorate of Austria
(thinking of Turkish vassal names for them)
Democratic Republic of Austria(when they

Poland:
Kingdom of Poland
Polish Republic
Soviet Poland(for Poland as a vassal to Russia or as Poland running SP)
Russian Union of Poland(I really don't know where it came from but it fit's)

Mexico:
United Mexican States
Kingdom of the Mexican Empire(When running HR and the "______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Viceroyalty of New Spain
Mexican States of America(When or If America decides to conquer Mexico)

England or Britian:
British Empire
United Kingdom of Great Britian(after America and Canada spawn while running US/Rep. or HR)

America:
United Kingdom of America(when running HR)
Confederate States of America(when running slavery)
United Socialist States of America(when running SP)
United States of America(when running US or Rep.)


When I say the civics, I know they are going to be changed but I mean:
HR-the absolute or constitutional monarchy
US-complete Democacy
SP-Communism or Socialism
Rep.-Compete Republic
Slavery- the civic that enable whipping(if there will be one)

Any sugesstions(good:) or bad:mad:) are welcome.

I don't think it's a good idea to use CSA for Slavery in America. The USA had slavery for almost a hundred years before there ever was a Confederate States. That might work if America is still in slavery post-1860 or something though.

How about this for the final list of civs?

China (Ming)
Spain
France
Britain
Netherlands
Russia
Portugal
Turkey
Austria
Persia - 1500
Mexico - 1521, 1821
Peru - 1542, 1824
Brazil - 1549, 1822
Japan - 1603
Sweden - 1611
China (Qing) - 1644
USA - 1776
Italy - 1814
Australia - 1856, 1986
India - 1858,, 1947
Canada - 1867, 1931
Germany - 1868
----------
Natives
Independents 1
Independents 2
China Rebels
CSA
Aztec (needed for conquistador event)
Inca (needed for conquistador event)


As you can see, the CSA are included as a minor civs along with the natives, Chinese rebels, etc. So there's no point in creating an American dynamic name to represent them. Furthermore, Poland is not in the list, and Germany spawns too late to be considered as Prussia.

Besides, the already existing civs already have their dynamic names. What we need is names for the new civs (Austria, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Italy, Sweden), some changes to the tweaked civs (Qing, Ming, Peru, Mexico, Persia), and new ideas for the others if they are relevant.

So for new civs:

Austria:
Austrian Kingdom
Austro-Hungarian Alliance(for the "_______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Republic of Austria
Democratic Republic of Austria(when they run a communism civic)
(don't know what a good name for Austria running the Fascist civic would be)
Dominion of Austria
Viceroyalty of Austria
Departments of Austria
German Protectorate of Austria
Soviet Austria
-or-
Russian Protectorate of Austria
Austrian Province of Trukey



Canada
Dominion of Canada
Socialist Republic of Canada
Imperial Canadian Provinces(Fascist civic)
British Departments of Canada
French Departments of Canada
Soviet Provinces of Canada
Viceroyalty of Spanish Northern America
United Provinces of American Canada


Mexico
United Mexican States
Kingdom of the Mexican Empire(When running Absolute or Constitutional Monarchies)
Viceroyalty of New Spain
American States of Mexico


Italy
Kingdom of Italy
Italian Republic
Imperial Italian Republic(for Fascist civic)
-or-
Imperial Italian Kingdom
-or-
The New Roman Empire
-or-
Imperial Italian Fascism
Deprtments of The Italian Empire
Dominion of The Italian Empire
Viceroyalty of Spanish Italy
German Province of Italy

Here are names for Australia, Brazil and Sweden in standard format.

The Australians
Antipodean Peoples
Commonwealth of Australia
Commonwealth of Australia
Commonwealth of Australia
Commonwealth of Australia
Republic of Australia
People's Republic of Australia
New Guard Australia
Islamic Commonwealth of Australia
Islamic Republic of Australia

The Brazilians
Transamazonian Peoples
Kingdom of Brazil
Empire of Brazil
Kingdom of Brazil
Empire of Brazil
Federative Republic of Brazil
Brazilian Socialist Federation
Brazilian New State
Islamic Empire of Brazil
Islamic Republic of Brazil

The Swedes
Swedish Peoples
Kingdom of Sweden
Swedish Empire
Kingdom of Sweden
Swedish Union
Swedish Republic
Swedish Socialist Republic
National Socialist Sweden
Islamic Kingdom of Sweden
Islamic Republic of Sweden

Some more suggestions from me (all historical):

Canada
Canada (as the standard democratic name; it's lame but it really is the official name of the country)
OR
Confederation of Canada (not a real name though)
Dominion of Canada (British vassal)
New France (French vassal; one of the last two should come up in pretty much every game, depending who of France and Britain colonizes the area)
Kingdom of Canada (under monarchy; never an official name, but has been suggested at the time of Confederation)

Brazil
Colonial Brazil (Portuguese vassal)
Dutch Brazil (Dutch v.)
Antarctic France (French v.)
Empire of Brazil (monarchy)
Federative Republic of Brazil (democracy)
New State of Brazil (fascist)

Australia
Commonwealth of Australia
New Holland (Dutch v.)
Dominion of Australia (British v.)

EDIT: Crossposted with Panopticon, so there is some repetition. I have a little problem with a Republic of Australia, because even now it's still called a Commonwealth (similarly to Britain, which is never called "Republic of England/Great Britain" in RFC). But there is a Republican movement in Australia (and Canada too, for that matter), so I guess it can be used.

One question regarding Austria - why not call their UB the Opera House and rename Globe Theatre as 'National Theatre' like it is in RFC:E? It's simple and justified, much more than Opera House and "Operahaus" or "Opera Theatre".

Idea for Brazil UP: +30 gold for every jungle tile cleared.

This would represent the clearing of the Amazon Rainforest for economic gain.

There is a bit of a problem with the Ottoman and Spanish UHV which are a bit stupid (no offense). I do not understand why the Ottomans have to spread Sunni Islam to Persia? Since this is not even historical, a better UHV goal for Turkey would be to not lose any cities to Christian Europeans until... date. As for the Spanish the Goal of controlling x amount of European core areas is a bit silly plus already the idea of having no British, French or Holland cities in the new world is also a bit stupid. Instead 2 good UHV's would be to have the highest amount of gold by x date and control or vassalize the Netherlands and southern Italy and the Philippines by x date. (You can exclude the Philippines its just an idea I had though) :)

Oh and for extra Civ's these are my suggestions:
Brazil
Mexico
Argentina (or Chile)
Austria
Germany
Russia
China (debatable)
Japan (Land of the Rising Sun) -Cool UHV would be to control South East Asia and Korea by x date
Safavid Dynasty (Iran) - Debatable, but would be intresting to have it to counter the Mughals and Ottomans
Mughal Dynasty (India) - I can help you come up with research and other materials for the Mughal's and Safavid's
Siam (can be represented by Khmer I guess)- main UHV resist outside influence and power!
Italy
Netherlands
Sweden/Norse - RFC Europe has a Swedish civ which you can use.

Last question I don't understand if your going to do this, but DON'T separate Islam into Shi'ite and Sunni, as it wouldn't make sense if you ONLY have one Shi'ite country (the Safavid's)

Oh last thing please no Canada or Australia as they are really big late in the game and neither have done much to affect outside politics or warfare except for help in the 2 world wars.
btw no offence to any Canadians or Australians I'm just saying it wouldn't make sense to have you guys as it wouldn't affect the game much except make it slower

Good work though, I really hope this comes out as successful as RFC Europe!

I actually wouldn't mind a Canada or Austrailia due to the French, English, and Netherlands are quite powerful with them in the 1900's. I also think that could be the reason America always vassalizes to a European Power. And America usually collapses(if it doesn't vassal) due to it's super over-expansion into Canada, Mexico, and the Carribean. But I have to agree that the Islam, don't split it.

Islam split is needed to ensure Ottomans and Safavids don't get along...The thinking behind the Sunni in Persian cities is that in order to do this, Ottomans would have to conquer Iran (Since they will be setup to counter each other, highly unlikely to be able to get this done peacefully). But yea I don't really agree with it anyway.

Safavids is basically a counter to Ottomans (Which is why they're needed, otherwise Ottomans could expand to Pakistan practically every game since only indeps are in their way). If Safavids and Ottomans are the same religion its alot harder to make this happen. These two should fight over Mesopotamia...and the result could be Iraq...

Another thing I've just thought of is who would the Ottomans vassals be ? They need 3 of them ? I'd imagine most of the ones that get vassalised in regular RFC won't be included here...

In my view...
Ottomans
1. Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD
2. Restrict the spread of Shi'ite Islam to within x% of the world (Setup against a Persian condition)
3. Do not loose any cities to whatever date

While Safavids have...
1. Control mesopotamia in 1650 (Setup against the Ottomans)
2. Spread Shi'ite Islam to x% of the world (Again, against the Ottomans)
3. Do not acquire more than 4 technologies through diplomacy to x date ? (Force isolationism ?)

Do we actually have a list of what the UHV's will be at the moment ? Would be useful for debate :P

I don't like those Safavid UHV's. I find the religion UHV's really boring so I'm not a fan of that and the force isolationism one is frankly just stupid and ridiculously easy.

I don't like those Safavid UHV's. I find the religion UHV's really boring so I'm not a fan of that and the force isolationism one is frankly just stupid and ridiculously easy.

But it makes you technologically backward...The challenge is being backward and facing the Ottomans...

UHV's are about achieving something, not about restricting play styles.
However this UHV could be merged with another one, something like "control mesopotamia by 1650 without acquiring more than 4 technologies by trades".
Which gives a unique UHV and frees a spot for another UHV.

What happened to RFC:I

1. Greek World has taken most people's attention
2. Kai hasn't been posting for about a month.

Well, he last visited 10 days before.

Is RFC:I dead or is Kairob just working on it?

wads RFC I?

I think RFC:I is on hold for now, as for FakeShady, RFC:I is a modmod Idea for RFC which focuses on the later eras of colonization, rennaisance, industrialization and the modern era.

I'd really like to start off japan around the 1450 start, 1603 is a long change, even if you have to unite the country at 1450, I'd prefer it that way. I'm also for some more progressive UHV rather than "LOL STAGNATE YOURSELF FOR 300 YEARS WIN GAME"
certainly I think the UP and UB in japan are pretty terrible. power without coal is almost always useless because you need coal for railroads ASAP, (plus japan always has coal in hokkaido)
a better mass transportation system or garden seems like the way to go for me.
as for the UP, its almost always useless, if you REALLY need to make good use of it you've almost always already lost. It also never applies to anything outside a city, to which i should point out, the USA never invaded japan, so they would have never got much chance to use their UP anyway
I don't have very many good ideas on how to fix that though,

To Chiyochan:

I definitely agree with the UP and UB bieng bad.
Technically the USA did invade Japan. But there was no fight, just surrender(for Japanese).
I have already proposed a better UP for Japan:

Loyalty:
Cities will not flip(or add instability) to a foriegn power due to congress(but rival civs can still ask for them) or due to culture.
-or-
Honor:
Can Draft citizens without the unhappiness


This would help a player expand into Korea and Manchuria(and maybe even China).

Britain: Fine, but may want to change "Be the first to circumnavigate", as that would've happened by 1500 or whenever this starts. Maybe a conquering of Germany UHV, or a bombing of Germany UHV. Or a defense of the British Isles UHV. I dunno.


The conquering of Germany would be a good idea but would seem tricky if Germany's at war with any other nation, especially Russia and France, because then it would be an all out race to control ALL of germany and then youll possibly end up with SOME bits, MOST of Germany or no cities at all

Either the Japanese UP or UB should make mercantism the economic civic of most advantage for most of the game as Japan. UP would be like "the power of specialisation" or something while the UB could be some sort of Japanese castle. Unless you do have to unite Japan (which I think would be really good to have), the UU would be kinda useless...

You guys have completely missed out one important civ

Russia

Leaders:
Catherine II
Peter the Great
Nicholas II
Vladimir Lenin

UP
The Power of the Tsardom:
Diplomatic relations don't go beyond Cautious (the long term)
and
The Power of the Empire:
Can switch between civics and religions without anarchy (the short term, used until mid 19th century)
(can i introduce a new concept: two unique powers but one is only useful up to certain date or a certain researched tech, while the other is standard and lasts throughout the entire game)

UB
Municipal duma:
+3 gold for every citizen

UU
Cossack (replaces Cavalry)
+1 defense and movement

UHVs

1. Colonize Siberia by 1690 (which was what they did)
2. Avoid having any civil war or anything else bad after the Power of the Empire effect wears off (what they didn't want to happen)
3. Be the first to research Communism (onset for USSR) or never lose a city before 1950 (WWII thing)

sorry if any of these is inaccurate

I would prefer the maratha over the mughals. They are more fit for the time period i think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire