A continuation of michmbk's First Shot at Deity, the two of us will attempt a succession game or possibly a best ball where we both play and take the best each round..

We've got Washington who is Philosophical and Charismatic and comes with Seals :) Up to you what you want to do mich - I took the liberty of moving the warrior and settler on the first turn and took a screen shot:


http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm149/grashopa2/Civ4ScreenShot0228.jpg


We started on the grassland hill 1SW and after moving the warrior and seeing the fresh water marble PH I figure thats where we'd want to settle - thats 3 hammers plus lots of hills should open up wonder opportunities, make it easy to get spawn busting warriors out and get us a right quick first worker.

If we settle on the marble I'd build 2 warriors and then a worker while working the plains forest. Hopefully we can get enough warriors out to completely spawnbust the surrounding area.

So take the first turn - If you settle the marble and go mining you can stop there post a screen and I'll try to check in so we can discuss our strategy after the first several turns of exploration. If I'm not around feel free to bust out 50 or 75 turns.

EDIT - BW or AH ? Bronze could show up on the grassland(plains and hill?) in the original BFC no? I'm guessing we have horses or bronze in the original BFC... Not sure which.

You are crazy if you move away from the irrigated corn. Can you turn resource bubbles on?

Settling on the Marble would be your best bet, as you'd unlock more non-forested grassland tiles, and another flood plain.

If I were you I'd go AH over BW. I'm fairly sure you'd pop horses in the BFC in one of the two non-forested grassland tiles.

Best of luck on your first Deity attempt ;)

I'd go BW over AH here, as you don't have any pasture resources in your initial BFC.

marble is 3H tile, not shabby at all.
played a bit, the map looks nice ...but crowded, you'd better be off blocking some land, me thinks

bw over AH as well, chopping settlers is important.

We've got Washington who is Philosophical and Charismatic and comes with Seals :) Up to you what you want to do mich - I took the liberty of moving the warrior and settler on the first turn and took a screen shot:

Lincoln, not Washington.

Anyway, good luck on the game, I'll be lurking! :goodjob:

By the way, check to see if the corn north of the marble is freshwater.

Oh man, you beat me to it by about a half hour. I had rolled a Gandhi start that was the second regen that looked pretty decent (marble as well, and had the makings of a nice GP farm) before putting my kids to bed, and was about to post it. I'll save that for the next one. Thanks for putting this up though - I like the concept of "first shot at deity 2". It sounds much better than "Second shot at deity after first was epic fail".

I like the marble as well. I'm ok with a 50 turn set to start. I'll pull it down, and let's both play and post 50 turns. Anyone else who wants to play, by all means, do so as well - more thoughts/analysis is always appreciated.

EDIT - I also agree BW - no AH resources, and it'd be nice to use those trees if we need to quickly block some land.

I think it's better to settle with both corn in the BFC. Irrigated corn speeds up workers and settlers much more than settling on marble.

BW opens up a chop at ToA at the cost of giving up some territory. Thats 10 GP points per turn with a philo leader.. Figure you have to go mining first anyway and 10 turns of looking about should let you know if you need to be settler chopping and such.

Hehe if you don't show up mich I may just play first :) I love PH marble starts. Definietly would move away from that corn since workers and warriors will come that much faster. I can't imagine barbs will be much of a problem unless its wide open which best hints at :)

Think the Navy Seals could end up being useful in a deity game? By the time we get there what will the AIs have? I've never waged a modern war so I have no clue what things will look like.

marble is 3H tile, not shabby at all.
played a bit, the map looks nice ...but crowded, you'd better be off blocking some land, me thinks

bw over AH as well, chopping settlers is important.

Marble is 5H when you build a mine on it. What is with the obsession people have with settling on marble? Does riverside corn mean nothing to you people?!

Ok sweet then anyone who wants we all play first 50 turns and see what we come up with.

My opening move was on the hill SE to reveal more squares - it actually didn't reveal the marble. So even though I have your advance knowledge, I'll play the first 50 turns based on what my warrior revealed, which is to settle in place. By no means a bad choice with both corn and plenty of FP.

Report below:


As I said, I settled in place, started worker. Tech path was Mining/BW to begin. Maybe we should have turned huts off:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

That might skew comparisons a bit, although it's only meaningful if we don't get copper, as I could tech archery faster. And this guy doesn’t declare at pleased, which is good.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

This guy does, and is awfully strong early game – not good.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

HR will be important to get him to like us. BW tells me where city #2 needs to go.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Start teching wheel as I improve farms. So much for scouting:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

I grew to 4 lightning fast thanks to corn, and mined the marble. Started roading to copper site. Settled it here:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

No time to wait for a border pop - the FP will provide food in the interim.

Then pottery to get those cottages/granaries online. Meanwhile, I built an axe, another worker and a settler, all without whipping thanks to that corn. Would be nice to quickly get this city to size 6 and benefit from the happy cap. At turn 50, here's where I was:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

I don't exactly know where to move the settler. My three main questions at this point are:

1. It appears I can block some land and a barb city for me to take later if I settle right, but not sure where the best spot is to move that settler, based on the limited scouting I've been able to do. There appears to be an ivory/gem site that would block me a fair amount of land, but don't have enough scouting to know the best spot. There's also a seafood site that blocks land. Leaning toward ivory/gem. Even if not a great site, +2-4 happiness is meaningful.

2. I don't know if it's smart to start on aesthetics now, or fit in mysticism first. AH doesn't seem that urgent as of yet. I fully expect Gilgy to spread hindu to us soon, which will allow for border pops as well. On immortal, I probably would have started to go for mysticism, but worried about delaying aesthetics.

3. I'll be size 6 by the time I finish the granary - do I whip a library and then go with the workers, or do I just get the workers out without the whip (pretty fast) and follow that with the library. Not sure of optimal path there, and that seems like a critical decision considering I can run 2 scientists post the library.

Feels like I got off to an ok start, but these are very tough AI on each side of me for sure.

First 50 turns:


I settled in place because riverside corn is the best starting tile in the game and we start with Ag.

Tech: Mine->BW->(popped wheel from hut)->pottery->myst->writing-> (aesthetics at 0%)

Build: worker->warrior x 4 or 5->settler->worker->worker->settler->(granary)

My first expansion city isn't amazing...
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/JBossch/Civ4ScreenShot0219.jpg
...but it will completely block Hannibal from the east. He can have the crappy land just west of my capital.

America at 50 turns:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/JBossch/Civ4ScreenShot0220.jpg
The settler is on his way to the sugar/gems/ivory spot marked with the blue dot. If he makes it, that spot will block everybody from the east.

My capital:
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/JBossch/Civ4ScreenShot0221.jpg
Mined marble is a powerful early game tile.

JBossch:


You did a great piece of micro I always seem to forget. TURN OFF RESEARCH AT WRITING UNTIL THE LIBRARY IS BUILT.

I'm going to go write that down 100 times on a sheet of paper to beat it into my memory. Anyway, you convinced me where to send my settler. That was my inkling as well, but wasn't able to fully scout that site due to bad barb luck.

JBossch:


You did a great piece of micro I always seem to forget. TURN OFF RESEARCH AT WRITING UNTIL THE LIBRARY IS BUILT.

I'm going to go write that down 100 times on a sheet of paper to beat it into my memory. Anyway, you convinced me where to send my settler. That was my inkling as well, but wasn't able to fully scout that site due to bad barb luck.

Yeah, binary research is crucial. I will probably tech at either 0% or 100% for the rest of the game. The barbs have been pretty easy on me. The area has been swarmed with AI archers that have seemed to attract most of the barb attacks.

JBossch:

You did a great piece of micro I always seem to forget. TURN OFF RESEARCH AT WRITING UNTIL THE LIBRARY IS BUILT.


why not until the first GS(acadamy), I always do that, being philosophy, just 9 turns for a GS.

It's generally not so good when you're not philosophical unless you can have the academy before ~750 bc.

I played a second 50 turns off of my save, up to turn 100, but will wait to post it until tomorrow, so we can compare Grashopa's first 50 turns.

A short spoil though:

I feel death is imminent. Hanny and Gilgy are both hindu and in WHEOOHRN mode, and since no one will spread hindu to me, I can't get either of them to pleased.

My 50:


Settled on marble, and build 2 warriors and then a worker. Tech went mining - sailing - masonry - mysticism polytheism (BW next). By turn 9 when mining finished I had scouted the area and knew I wanted the Great Lighouse, and figured I'd make a run at the ToA - if I don't get it then its a lot of gold for teching to literature.

I completely spawnbusted the area and didn't run into many barbs:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm149/grashopa2/Civ4ScreenShot0239.jpg

I'm done with the GLh in a turn or two after which I'll put a settler to my north to snag the corn and the fish. I can block Hannibal at the spices hopefully or the fish/clam spot just to the east of it. I may immediately build a settler to go after the spices and rely on chopping to grab the ToA.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm149/grashopa2/Civ4ScreenShot0242.jpg

@mich

I just realized my precarious position if I get the wrong religion. :) I can control it with open borders, but I'm not going to wait since I need the routes after the GLh. And I believe only Charlemagne has writing, but haven't checked recently.

I've got a long flight tomorrow morning so have been running around a bit. Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow night or tonight if I don't sleep :)

Open borders doesn't affect religion spread -- trade network does.

Open borders doesn't affect religion spread -- trade network does.

Yes but on higher difficulties (deity especially) the AI get Missionaries really quick, and they could spread it that way.

JBossch - I quickly played a round with your save, and

Turn 86, Hannibal declares with a stack of NC, swords and chariots. Not much of a way to stop that. I suspect he's coming in my game as well.

Grashopa:

Did you post your save? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it to compare our progress. You went a much different route than me though. One city at turn 50 would terrify me with deity AI expansion. I'd like to play the next 50 turns with your save as well to see if blocking is still viable. If it is, then I like the concept of those two wonders, as you can then put cities anywhere along the coast and be successful. Still, I have to wonder if you'll get blocked in and limited to 4-5 cities in total.

I've also started a shadow, being a Deity wannabe as well...;)

@michmbk



If you expected Gilgi to send a missionary, it was a mistake since he didn't found Hindu. Grashopa otoh may get it. From the start, Hanibal is the only threat since Gilgi will have closer neighbors he don't like and we're Hannibal's only target.

In my game, I'll be dead as well unless I found Tao and spread it to Hannibal. I've gifted him Aesthetics for free but it wasn't enough to get him to Pleased.

Another thing I think it's important to mention, I went for Sailing before Aesthetics. Sailing with foreign trade routes enabled settling cities that were profitable immediately so I took more land. I also didn't go with Pottery, those extra cities I set to build science when I got Alpha. Generally I believe I'm doing fine, unless Hanibal kills me with catapults and his uu cavalry. I'm going to miss Aesthetics wonders though and Music most likely, but I can live with that. :)

Turns 51-100 with my save, to 375 BC. Feel like I got off to a good start, but I think I stopped at a good time. The next 25 turns could be instadeath or very successful. Report and save below.


Sent the third settler down here to block land and get +2 happiness, but I couldn’t get down there fast enough to claim the sugar. I wanted to at least block my peninsula though - probably should have settled Boston 1S of where I did to try to fight for the sugar, so that was a mistake. Gilgamesh mocks my city placement and a few turns later, does this to start the flipping process.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

Love those deity culture battles with creative civs. Quickly start a library there, and follow with a monument – I actually was able to win the culture war with him through turn 100. Another meeting:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

Good – another no declare at pleased AI. First GS – goes for the academy.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Hopefully next one will bulb Philo. And 3 turns into Alpha, Hammy reads my mind and offers this:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

I was going to do the same thing. Deity AI are even mindreaders - where's that in the code? Quick tech trades:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

And Aesthetics was worth about 6 techs – not bad. But, this is ominous:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

That’s not good. Hanny's in WHEOOHRN too. And so much for taoism bulb:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

And oh joy, worst enemy crap on first meeting:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

Hanny appears to be the imminent threat – he has units running through my borders constantly, whereas Gilgamesh isn’t sending more than an occasional vulture.

I’m producing units as I cut off, but a DOW is doom for sure. At turn 100, I had just popped my second GS, and am about 2-3 turns from finishing Glib. Tech:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

The ultimate frustration right now - Gilgy and Hanny are hindu. I look at my cities: Buddhism, check. Judaism, check. Christianity, check. Hindu...no. NO ONE WILL SPREAD HINDU TO ME! ARRRGHHHH! Every single stupid religion comes flying into my cities except hindu. Hindu could save my butt and I can’t get it in one lousy city. Anyway, I have a 7-8 unit defense stack, and one city is exclusively producing, but I can’t protect both flanks. Not sure I can even protect one flank.

Things that are going well so far on deity:

1. I’m getting great library built faster than I ever have in my civ life…way faster.

2. I’m succeeding in blocking enough land to at least get a core 6-7 cities in without too much difficulty.

3. I’m not having any problems dealing with barbs, mainly because I’ve read a lot of deity games posted here before and have anticipated the speed with which they come. I did have to whip a spear this game to deal with a barb warrior, but that’s not too painful.

The biggest thing that isn’t going well is my inability to figure out how to get both tech and production with a small city base. I’m used to comfortably getting to 12-15 cities, which means you can have some inefficiency in your cities. It seems like on deity, every single city has to count and has to contribute significantly to your efforts. That’s a major adjustment in trying to deal with this level.


My thoughts on next steps – any input appreciated.

1. I need walls, fast. I should be able to get masonry easily in a trade

2. I’m thinking drama next as it means in 6 turns I could bulb philo. I think I could get monarchy, masonry and HBR from Hanny for philo, and next turn, feudalism from someone else for philo. Longbows might be the only option for survival.

3. Obviously, if hindu comes, I’m adopting it, but that may not be enough, as the war decision is already made – even if I get Hanny to pleased, he'll probably still DOW me. But pleased with both of them is meaningful - i could beg for 10 gold to buy myself 10 turns to get walls & LBs in place.

4. This has the makings of a great cultural opportunity. If hindu shows up (SOMEONE PLEASE SPREAD IT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!), I’ll have 4 religions, which means I can get a bunch of cathedral multipliers. The barb site is well suited for a GP farm, I have a great cottage site in the capital, so I just need to figure out one other great cottage site (NY, my production site right now, could turn into a good cottage site) and I can pursue culture. With no runaway techers/culturewhores like Mansa, it’s viable.

5. I'd love to take the barb city to the north, but am confident the minute I send troops up there, a DOW happens.

I've also started a shadow, being a Deity wannabe as well...;)

@michmbk



If you expected Gilgi to send a missionary, it was a mistake since he didn't found Hindu.



I just want someone to spread hindu - every other religion has made its way to me, except that one. The civ who founded it (not named since this isn't in spoiler) seems to be spreading it to everyone else, but not me.

Sounds like you have a good start going. I'll be interested in seeing how your game progresses. It is nice to see people like Jbossch posting their save as well - I really like being able to compare how others attacked the game vs. me. So feel free to post your save if you want - I think having other comparisons will help me in trying to figure out this level.

Good job guys! Usually I dont even consider playing on immortal without having some source of gold at least in my second city...

Grashopa, we should definitely proceed from your save, since mine only lasts another 25 turns or so...


Thank goodness, finally!

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

Too little too late, as it turned out. Hanny was instantly pleased, but that doesn't matter at this point.

Teched out drama, great library in, bulbed philo, begged for 10 turns:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

Did the same with Gilgamesh. Turned drama and philo into masonry, feudalism, HBR, monotheism and gold. Walls and longbows being built everywhere...while my cities get water poisoned, and monuments destroyed. Don't know which is worse, deity culture or deity espionage. One turn after the 10 turn peace treaty ended:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg

I had 8 longbows, some axes, swords, chariots in Washington and about 5 defensive units in Philly, but had to laugh:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg

That's 2 of Hanny's four stacks totaling about 40 units coming my way. Hilarious. Oh, and even funnier:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg

Sure, Gilgamesh, let me just join right in - I don't really have anything going on at the moment.

Atlanta falls, and this is what Washington faces:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg

Now at about 12 longbows in the city...like it matters.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Deity%20lincoln/Civ4ScreenShot0033.jpg

I counted Hanny's units at that point - he had 55 units in total bearing down on Washington. 55 units in 127 turns, and apparently no unit maintenance problems either. Nice to be an AI on this level. Checked the WB - he had 9 cities all building units, 3 of them at size 11 or more. Charlemagne had a size 18 city in 325 AD. How to compete with that?

Anyway, game over - hanny was willing to take peace for yet another city, so down to 3 cities and without my capital, there's no hope. I wonder how this would have played out if I could have gotten hindu before the RNG roll that made Hanny decide on war. Having the other three religions spread to me, but not hindu, was absolutely devastating.

Played it till 50 BC (T113). I believe it's winnable from this point. :)



I did get to Philo first around T100, via Drama. As expected, I didn't have any chance for Parthenon, GL or Music. Still, I made a lot of trade whoring and didn't even have to give Philosophy. I took Literature for Drama, then Drama + Lit for MC and then MC for other stuff and so on. I built research longer than expected because there were good trade opportunities that needed some beakers to happen. Here's the tech screen:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5483/techb.jpg

I've been giving tech to Hannibal (Aesthetics and Drama), but he's been researching pretty fast so I wasn't able to give him more. I also gave him some Fish for free, but it takes 50 turns for +1 with that. He was Pleased for a short moment, but fair trade dropped for a point. It's possible to get him now with Philosophy, but I think I'll wait for Music. Music should enable other trades with some manual research and it's not likely that Hannibal will go for that.

Cities:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5935/cities0000.jpg

I've just settled the 6th city and it's giving profit immediately because of 2 foreign trade routes. The next thing to do is to build some cats to capture that iron barb city. The other one will fall too, but I have to hurry to take the one with iron before Gilgi beats me to the spot. When Music arrives, issues with Hannibal should be over. At worst, I could trade for Feudalism and cats would help too. Confu is the AP religion so I'll spread that to my land and Hannibal's as well to secure some friends for future trading. Getting to Liberalism first might be a problem since Hammy has Paper and I can't bulb Lib because I couldn't resist a very good opportunity to grab Machinery. It's still a very good chance imo, with Philosophy monopoly and more GS that are possible with Pacifism and NE. I've generated two of them so far: 1 for the Academy and 1 for Philosophy. I've built the first cottage around T100 and I'm going to build more of them now. No time earlier, I needed the food for settlers and 2 GS. If needed, there's wealth building. Another thing to do is to double the number of workers asap (there are 5 of them now) to improve all land rapidly. First war should happen before 1000 AD with rifles, cavs or cannons, probably against Gilga...

Anyway, I think I have a very good chance here. :) Still, I need more experience with post Liberalism Deity games so it won't be easy for me. Domination would be very nice for this map. :D I won't have the time to play in the next few days, but I'm sure going to finish this one...




EDIT:

@Mich



Wow, that was brutal...:eek: There's definitely a luck factor with this map. Only other option that I see would be trying for Confu with Oracle to get the same religion with Hann asap. This is of course post game knowledge, it's a bit trickier in the real game...

1 AD


Finally, I could get a go at this. I feel too attracted to irrigated corn starts. :lol:

Settled 1 city by the bronze.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0446.jpg

Complete the Oracle and take Metal Casting. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do the "Forge - Great Engineer" trick to get the Pyramids since it was built before the Oracle.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0447.jpg

Third city.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0448.jpg

Situation at 100 turns.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0449.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0450.jpg

I took the liberty of playing to 1AD to see if I'd get the Great Library. There's still 1 unknown civ, and there's a chance he/she will be building it.

I get it. :goodjob:

I also built the Parthenon to fight Gilgamesh's culture.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0451.jpg

I pop gold.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0452.jpg

Situation at 1 AD. Research isn't as high as I'd like it to be, but that's because I haven't finished Civil Service yet (Bureaucracy). Also, my GP farm (Home) has yet to take off. On the positive side, the diplomatic situation will be 100% safe if I can get Gilgamesh to be friendly, which should be doable with shared religion and hereditary rule.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0453.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/DMOC_album/Civ4ScreenShot0454.jpg


The more I think about it, the more this game becomes the perfect example of how technology > land. If I had raced to claim all the available land, I'd be further behind.

DMOC: What's up with those city names? I remember obsolete using them in his reports, didn't realize that was a more widespread naming convention :)

About grabbing land on that map: A mega-REX wouldn't make much sense anyway as with 2 cities you can secure 2 more good spots that you can settle at your leisure. A good example about not to overvalue land, but the map is rigged in that regard :P (the "missed" land = resourceless plains and jungle)

The more I think about it, the more this game becomes the perfect example of how technology > land. If I had raced to claim all the available land, I'd be further behind.

Ha, that's exactly the opposite of what I'd say. :lol: I'd rather take more land (~8 cities) and miss some wonders and even Liberalism if I'm not too behind in tech. When land is developed, somebody will always become a backward target sooner or later...But I need more experience with deity games, so I'll see how it goes.

There's more land that I could have gotten if I had focused hard on REXing. For instance, I could have settled north of Washington (Home) and south near the spices, and there's 2 more city spots in the peninsula. Finally, I could have settled east of the gems. That's 5 extra cities I decided not to bother settling.

Oh about the city names, I just decided to try them out for fun. Nothing major.

EDIT: Another reason why REXing isn't smart on the map - you'll just make Hannibal angry. Best to settle away from him and avoid early border contact.

DMOC:

It looks like you got hindu spread sometime between turn 64 and 100 - that would have made a world of difference for me. Do you have Hannibal at pleased?

Our games are somewhat similar in terms of city placement - you went oracle while i headed up quickly toward GLib. Seeing these other saves makes me want to go back to my turn 50 save, give myself hindu and see what kind of difference that makes.

@DMOC



Settling away from Hann is a must, but it still leaves America as first target if he decides to roll on Cautious. GL and Parthenon were gone really fast in my game. Perhaps Oracle helped you in your game to slow others...Probably not when I think about it, Gilga took MC which had nothing to do with Rammy's Aesthetics + Literature beeline.

I guess I must have gotten lucky. I was the first to get Aesthetics/Lit (although I don't know about the last AI - Bismarck, which I know from the other spoilers now) which made it a relatively easy ride to the Great Library.

Also, the Oracle was important not only for the cultural battle, but also to make a fair trade with Hannibal (give him MC for a cheap tech and get diplomacy bonuses). He was cautious for a while (but thankfully did not declare war!), until I switched to Hinduism (don't remember the date but it was around turn 70 maybe). Also, as soon as he discovered Currency (really early), I gave him ivory for 5g so I would get the trade resource diplomatic bonus. Finally, you had a really long border with Hannibal which may have influenced a DoW.

I have to thank Hammurabi this game. He not only provided me with at least 3 hindu cities, but he also sent missionaries to Hannibal!

@DMOC



Gifting MC for cheap tech definitely solves the problem. :goodjob: Selling resources is good, but it takes 50 turns for the resource trade bonus... However, strategic resources also work well for fair trade bonus, giving a max +2 in that department as well. Perhaps I should gift him Marble in my game with GL and Parthenon gone to get the extra fair trade. In my game, all missionary traffic is blocked because Gilga isn't liked and has close borders with Hammy and Charles...

Long borders are not really important here, not counting some close borders negatives. It would make a difference if he had some other cautious neighbor he's more close to. Here, if he's not annoyed at anybody, roll at cautious will target America for sure and long/short borders won't matter.

Just for fun, I went back to my 50 turn save and gave myself a single hindu missionary...


Hanny was pleased within 15 turns, never went WHEOOHRN on me, and I ended up with 8 cities at 500 AD, bulbing taoism and hitting lib at 500 AD. Tricky part from there would be win condition, but I think I could have snuck a 9th city in, and started on my cathedrals at that point. I had two sites that could get legendary somewhat easily, the trick would have been to get enough artists from my GP farm, since I had already popped 4-5 scientists.

One hindu missionary was the difference between a 50 unit stack bearing down on me in the early ADs, and a fighting chance to win. That's deity for you, I guess.

Death:

Yeah I got the DoW from Hanny as well. Sucks because I was otherwise really pleased with my game. I think he went WHEOOHRN at about turn 70. Bad luck I guess. I settled the copper as soon as I knew he was coming but I barely had time to build a spearman before he declared with a pile of 20+ units, still deep in the BCs. Hanny didn't have any religion yet.

4000BC-1AD

Have done a lot of annoying things like forgetting to switch civics, cottaging where I need to chain irrigate and so on, but I'm alive :D

I settled in place and got lucky with some huts, popped both wheel and mysticisim (check if game really was on deity at this point). Self researched mining then BW.

Lack of fogbusting made this happen:
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0102.jpg

Founded New York 3N of Washington in 2440BC so it could share the irrigated corn, Boston got founded 1760 and blocked of Hannibal while getting som fish and clam. Lost the ivory/gems-spot to Gilgamesh. Found out later this means I'm without iron... :blush:

1320BC When Hannibal moved small stack towards Kushans it was time to capture it myself:

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0103.jpg

I also razed a barb-city up north (1W of where I later settled) in 1000BC

Aesthetics proved to be good trade bait in this game. I got ABC, 123, sailing, poly, monarchy, IW and meditation from it.

925BC I founded Philadelphia.

In 800BC hinduism spread to Kushans, I converted a few turns later.

After aesthetics I chose drama instead of literature. Wanted to secure taoism, bulbed philo in 675BC and founded taoism in New York :) Belive this was a bad move, should have gone masonry > literature > drama instead.

500BC I DoW'ed Charlemagne on request from Gilgamesh. Haven't done any fighting. Again, probably a bad move. Should have accepted the -1 refuse to help. Then it would have been easier to switch sides later and backstab Gilgamesh. The war isn't going so well for Gilga, but he's only lost 1 city I think.

425BC - Atlanta

After philo I went masonry > literature, but lost the Glib to Hannibal. In 325BC you can't expect anything else.

300BC - Chicago

Reserach after literature was mono(don't know why) > CoL. Traded some cheap techs for construction. 150BC I traded philo+some other tech for CS with Hannibal and bulbed paper. Also switched to pacifism and bureaucracy.

Current tech situation, planning on doing 1 bulb on edu and bulb liberalism. I'm not going to trade paper I think:

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0116.jpg

Diplo, should probably make peace with Charlemagne to get some better trade routes (overseas with ramsees):
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0115.jpg

My empire isn't huge and a bit underdeveloped, but the land is quite nice.
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0110.jpg


Rest of the known world:
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0113.jpg
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0114.jpg

Washington:
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0112.jpg

New York (not the best "GP-farm" you've seen =)
http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss245/Windsor1942/Civ4ScreenShot0111.jpg


I really shouldn't have switched to caste. I should rather go with 2 merchants, a priest and 2 scientists in NY and whip infra in the rest of the cities while using HR to avoid angry citizens.

^Windsor



Here's sth I haven't thought of before:

There's an interesting point about merchants vs scientists in this situation. Great merchant in Temple of Artemis city will likely give you 1300 gold. (500 + 200*gold_value). Gold value is what the city would get from your capital from trade routes. Deity cities are strong, you can expect 4 here. Scientist bulb value depends on population, 1500 + 3*pop and it's around 1600 judging by your screenshot. You likely have the Academy and libraries around, merchant would most likely yield more! Bulbing Paper also doesn't use the GS so well. Priests wouldn't help with this, but hiring 2 merchants and 2 scientists early sounds like a very interesting idea for a Liberalism race in some future Deity game.

Hey sorry guys, I got sick that night and I'm still wasted. Haven't even read the rest of the thread and don't think I'll be around for a few more days.

Spoiler - 700AD I did have some pre knowledge of the map which helped a little. Well a lot actually. :)



The one thing i like about deity is the speed of getting techs. Taj built 200AD (not by me though). I did manage to be the first to Lib and took Mil Trad with the idea of going for cavalry but not so sure know. Managed to get han to pleased with shared religion etc and with Gil in the same religion no worries about wars. Just as well really atm my army consists of 6 warriors, 2 swords a HA and chariot. :) just got the free GM from Economics and my next GP is due in 2 so I'll have my first GA, give Econ to Han for the fair trade bonus and hopefully the shared fav civic which should get him to friendly. The new idea is to go for tanks just hope I have some oil. Soon find out anyway.

Current Tech situation.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/Techs700AD0000.jpg

Sleepless:

Wow - the tech pace in your game is pretty fast. It's funny how sometimes if the AI get along, tech pace goes crazy.

Looks like you have a fighting chance though. You might get to rifling before Charlie & Bis get gunpowder, and even if they do get muskets, cavalry will overrun them...if you can get the production.

@michmbk



Our happy Hindu club of me, Gil, Han, Ram and Ham (who's just gone into FR) certainly helped and with good relations with Charlie (Bud) and Biz (conf) helped. Especially as I don't have to worry to much about WFYBTA although Han won't trade with me atm because of that.

Not all peace though as Gil and Charlie had a war and Biz v Ram/Han are currently fighting. I'll probably get some demerits from not fighting/stopping trade with Biz from Han and Ram but I have got a bit of leeway there. Might even give Han econ to stop him fighting Biz. If he accepts it.

Future wars. I'm pretty certain Hannibal will be my first target. Biz is on another island and Charlie is a bit to far away. Plus I don't have the producion atm to get a stack to attack a deity AI. :) I'm just about to settle the remainder of the spots available adopt Caste and workshops which should help.

Also trying to think of the best way to get Steel of Gil, I can trade for Sci Meth easy enough and I do need to know if I have oil or no tanks, or poss cav/bomber units. Never used those and this game could be a good time to try that combo out.

- 1100AD



The crossroads in the game. I really, really want to beat my best space victory time and I'm certain I could do it in this game. But I could probably do with some more land which means a war. At the moment I'm thinking of taking on Hannibal (once I've built some troops that is :)). With his and my lands I should be well set. Managed to get lots of trading done with my friendly civs. Went even better when I got Han to friendly.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/Hannibaltofriendly0000.jpg

Current tech screen. I'm a bit more advanced than I'm used to. :) Managed to get Phys, Mil Sci and rifles from Han which got me Bio from Ham and RR from Gil. Hopefully I'll get something from rifling as well.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/Techsat1100Firstshotdeity0000.jpg

Not sure whether to go for AL or Elec next. Trouble is now the techs are getting expensive to research and I'm only getting about 600 beakers per turn at break even. I would like to go into rep but can't as that would drop Gil to pleased which I don't want.

Glance Screen.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/FirstShotdeity1100ADGlance0000.jpg

If Gil wasn't the biggest a UN shot could have been on the cards.

Picked up Sci Meth early on to find out if I had oil. Answer no. :( But all was not lost. :)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/FSAD-Oil0000.jpg

Just beat Ham to that site. I'm also trying to farm the barb city to open up the Heroic Epic. There is another little island to the East which I'm trying to get some space on. Especially for the coal (don't have any) but I think Han might beat me to it as he already has a city on that island. No harm in trying though. :)

If anyone looks at the save please no comments about my lack of workers. I do know and it is certainly something I could/should improve on. :)

- 1822AD



I mised out as expected on the little island as Han had already settled most of it. To make matters worse he also took the city at the bottom of the oil island before me and I couldn't open the HE. After this I gave up with any ideas of attacking anyone and would try and get a fast (for me ) space victory.

I was able to trade for quite a few techs but everytime I started one of the late wonders I would be beaten to it. :( Worse was the 3 Gorges, on the plus side I popped a source of coal soon after so not the end of the world. :)

I did get 2 more important wonders. The Internet. :) and The Space Elevator. Helped by being the first to fusion and using the GE.

It wasn't good being forced into FR. This caused me a bit of a problem as near the end Han went into WHEEOH. :(

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg

I had no doubts where he was going then he went out of WHEEOH for some reason. Possibly due to me asking him for a 10g peace deal just after I launched. :)

So 1822.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/VictoryScreen0000.jpg

I defintely need to improve at war on deity as I still can't get used to the amount of units you need.

I nearly missed the best thing about this game. I knocked 26 years off my previous best space launch. :) Now to try and beat sub 1800.

Well played Sleepless! :)

Well played Sleepless! :)

Thankyou, bit lucky and had a little bit of knowledge of the map which made it a bit easier. :)

I don't think I would have done anything different though. :)

Awesome sleepless - great game. I wonder how my game would have turned out with one simple hindu missionary earlier.

Real life has intervened a bit unfortunately, so I haven't gotten to my gandhi posted game or to the rest of the sid game, but good to see someone pulled this one off!