I have never warrior rushed before. In my current game I am really close to Elizabeth, he capital is just on grassland, so I thought it would be the perfect time to rush her. So I just build warriors. I get 6 of them, and move in, I take a worker and declare. She has 1 archer, and I have 6 warriors.

My chance to win is .1

So I save and give it a shot. I figure once I get him founded, I will start grinding him up. Nope. The archers EASILY defeated all 6 of my warriors and was left at 2.65 health.

Is this some kind of joke!? I was actually expecting 2 archers in there. I was happy to see only 1, I was ready for an easy win. I had NO CHANCE!

Is this strategy just not possible on Monarch?

Although first strike from the archer help it alot , lose 6 for 1 is really a bad luck of you.
this strategy only viable with the infamous Inca. A very good one actually :D :D

warrior rushed ... Monarch

Hahahahahaha!

Unless you're Inca, I wouldn't suggest warrior rush on monarch. You'll want to hook up copper or horses.

Archers get the city defense bonus, plus a first strike, etc.

So what like 3 + 50% + 1 FS + 25%... that'd be like a 6. How fast do you get that culture bonus?

so... not on monarch then?

Definitely a "no go" on the Monarch warrior rush.

How fast do you get that culture bonus?
5 characters.

Forget warrior rushes at Monarch. Elizabeth is a sap and researching to BW or AH is good enough. Use the 6 warriors to fog bust and settle a metal or horse with the next city.

Regarding why it failed: 3 + 50% city defense + 25% entrenchment +20% culture bonus + FS which comes to about 1:3 ratio. Possible, but using chariots/axes a little later would be an assured win.

Another thing that works fine on Monarch is the Archer rush, if you see yourself without strategic resources.

Warrior rushing on monarch is only viable with Incan Quechuas. Archer rushing is viable if you start with hunting. The AI will reliably build a worker before more archers and they usually send an archer out exploring. Check out Attacko's Ice Archer rush strategy.

However, generally speaking, a better bet is to research AH or BW and get a settler out there ASAP to claim horse or copper. Prince/below is where warrior rushes (quechua excluded) belong.

Rule of thumb: Attacking against first strikes with < 5 % chance to win has a high chance of dying without dealing any damage. I'm sure someone can work out numbers on this but, while I'd probably be capable and find it interesting, I just don't have the time - just going from experience trying to use my weaker troops to soften up strong defenders and losing 3-4 when I could have use 1 stronger attacker to deal the same damage.

Heh, I lost 14 Immortals to one spearman who after all that was only at 3.6.

What a noob! :eek:

???? For real? That seems a little crazy, mang. AI doesn't usually give spearmen Drill promotions hence no first strikes. I can't imagine 14 immortals did 0.4 damage!

Did you attack with all 14 at once or was it spread out (IE allowing the AI to promote the spearman to Combat 2, formation)?

AI doesn't usually give spearmen Drill promotions hence no first strikes

This could be due to the fact that only way you can have Drill on melee units is to complete the Swordsman quest :)

:blush: but but... I like to ... give... swords... first strike... bah! :lol:

Hmm, I am under impression monarch warrior rush is possible w/ aggressive leader and marathon

Here is an example. Boudica/Monarch/Fractal/Marathon

Started off in the tundra but settled over the plains/hill - idea for rush. Starting position is over the circle (i.e. SW)
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/3189/startj.jpg

Started w/ barracks and researching AH... didn't really mattered but I wanted to be able to survive if the rush had failed.

Explored to find frenchies :) Perfect, next to border there is rice!
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3605/firstcontact.jpg

Produced warrior and decided to check the frencie! Freebie - would make a pasture.
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3454/freebiex.jpg


Assembled the horde; but before I had to kill a french archer sacrificing a warrior to put an end of the 1st war, so the French dude relaxed a little.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7503/taskforce.jpg

And found a second gift
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/520/secondgift.jpg

Rush
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3775/fallingdownf.jpg

Notice: it's hill AND + 40% culture defense!
But Major success:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7071/successu.jpg


Conclusion. It's possible. But it's not price level rush. Time it right, steal a worker, etc.

Heh, I lost 14 Immortals to one spearman who after all that was only at 3.6.

What a noob! :eek:

that's pretty extreme
even if it was on top of a hill and across a river, I dont think he would only lose 0.4

were majority of the immortals wounded?

40% defense? Can't see it in the pic, but Louis is CRE so 40%.

It's definitely possible, but you're probably better off going without the barracks first. I'm not sure how Louis didn't have any other cities or defenders after you built barracks and then 6 warriors. Sounds lucky. Most games, I'd see another 1-2 defenders or another city by then. Also, you have Boudica who is also CHM therefore the Combat 1/2 + Cover promoted warrior we see.

Point being it can absolutely be done, but seems costly and ill advised unless Marathon & close neighbor or non-marathon VERY close neighbor with AGG leader. How did the rest of that game play out?

bestsss - how many archers were in the capital? 1 or 2. That's pretty astounding if it was 2.

I think 4 of them pulled out with something akin to .4-1 left, the stack was about evenly split between 0/2 units and 3/2 units. Being on a mac, I had just gotten BTS and was enjoying a little Darius action.

The spearman wasn't there when the I DoW'd but he popped up in time for my stack. I knew it would be ugly, but had no idea that ugly. It was on a hill, not behind a river (I know better than that). Still, I just didn't think it would be that bad.

The kind of warrior rush Bestsss showed I can only see being worth it if playing as Boudica since her traits and uniques support an all-out-war style of play therefore continuous warfare. But even as Genghis Khan, I'd go a different route.

???? For real? That seems a little crazy, mang. AI doesn't usually give spearmen Drill promotions hence no first strikes. I can't imagine 14 immortals did 0.4 damage!

Did you attack with all 14 at once or was it spread out (IE allowing the AI to promote the spearman to Combat 2, formation)?

I did it one at a time. Old habits, promote one at a time. Probably a bad move.

I meant did you attack all 14 in one turn. One at a time or stacked doesn't really make much of a difference if all your units were the same.

Opps. I messed the pic, since my girlfriends was nagging me to have dinner x.x (fixed now)

He founded Buddhism.. Warriors were 5 turns on marathon. I think i could have 3 more but i'd only pay expenses till built and if they fail to damage the archer it's gone. So i decided on cover or CR. Like I told I did kill an wandering archer, captured a worker and he was stupid to build another worker...

I did not play the game. I played only that part (for the sake of the rushing) and went for dinner. I think I'd have had no problem to win the game even if the rush failed.

@michmbk he had a single archer in the capital, but that could have been assumed from the power rating (1.7 to me).

Whoa, didn't expect that could work against a hill & religion.

Talking about timing - if he didn't found a religion, he would have popped 40% 3 turns before your attack ;) Though I guess you know that.

I have no idea how you won when I was crushed so easily. My enemies archer wasn't even on a hill. I am even more mad now!

Warriors were 5 turns on marathon.
??? 2 :hammers: city center, 2:hammers: forested hill = 4:hammers: per turn. Warriors are 30 :hammers: cost???

You get 3 hammers on a forested hill, right? Still, that's 6 turns apiece. I'm just surprised to only see 1 archer in the capital - that seems like a bit of a break. Two archers seems more likely at that juncture, but I'm not too familiar with marathon speed, so I could be wrong.

He only has grassland hills in the BFC, he settled on the plains hill. 1:food: 2:hammers: for forested grassland hills.

2 from grass forest hills; he didn't have plains hills in the BFC. He made a rax so he probably grew to size 2 to work 2 grasshillforest/plainsforests.

Got it.

Fact- civs that starts with warriors should auto-explore and hope they die because they are worthless

Fact- Hunting- Archery- First good unit in the game


the evidence is clear- wrong unit was used

Thanks for the smiles, Troy :)

So true, though. Archer rush is the superior

Warriors are only 22 hammers on marathon. All sort of rushes are possible there. I think TMIT posted a warrior rush on immortal or something sick like that...

Warriors are only 22 hammers on marathon.
That's not true; there are 30 for sure. 22 hammers are epic warriors. normal speed warrior is 15; unit in epic 1.5x , marathon 2x

There is something exploitable about the rush: Sea Food. The AI tries to build boats before settlers and units.

Good call on the fishing boats.