Star wars loves superweapons:

For a start I made a starter list:
(in no particular order)

Centerpoint Station=can move planets, can create massive gravity wells(slow ship movement a lot)
Star Forge=if under control of a dark side civ can produce 1 random unit per turn
Mass Shadow Generator=destroys all units and citys on the planet
Dark Reaper=you click a square it has a change of killing some of the enemy units there (only living things)
Death Stars=destroy planets
World Devastator=eats planet square by square and can produce units (think mongol camp from warlords)
Sun Crusher=makes a small supernova destroys all units and planets within a given radius
Galaxy Gun=Can destroy any planet it wants 1 per turn
Darksaber=a very weak death star like weapon for the hutts (has a chance of not working?)
the tarkin=can destroy a planet

Any other ideas?
Or how they could be put in game?

Some have already been implemented. We've had this discussion before in several threads and decided that the Death Star and it's accessories (other Death Stars) will be projects that provide units.

I think the easiest way to do all of these would be to create a series of Superweapon Projects. On the completion of the project, a unit is created that has a special nuke ability. It's "Nuke" does different things depending on the unit. All of that would be doable in Python. If we brainstorm a list of superweapons we want, then the powers those superweapons should give, I can program all of the python relatively quickly. Then all some XML person has to do is make the projects and units, and allow the units to nuke.

However, some, like Sun Crusher, won't work only because there's no Suns in this mod, and adding them in would be too complicated- if you wanted suns, I'd tell you to go back to Final Frontier.

Added descriptions

You could use the sun crusher to kill all living things in a certain radius I think. Tarkin Project? The darksaber was a complete failure. If I remember right it blew up when Durga tried to use it.

I've got the three Death Stars, Galaxy Gun, World Devastator, and Mass Shadow Generator set up so far.

One thing, though, what types of units should the World Devastator be able to make? The way it works right now is that after destroying a planet plot, the unit gets "PROMOTION_PROCESSING". Then, on the beginning of your next turn, all units with Processing create either 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 units and loose that promotion. So I need to define what types of units should be creatable.

Other things:

1. The Death Stars and Galaxy Gun work exactly the same. However, you can make the Galaxy Gun have an infinite nuke range in the XML where the Death Stars have more limited ones.

2. You can allow more then one of each project to be created. So you can let the player build two World Devastators, for instance, but only one Death Star.

I'm still working on the other superweapons.

You could use the sun crusher to kill all living things in a certain radius I think. Tarkin Project? The darksaber was a complete failure. If I remember right it blew up when Durga tried to use it.

Darksaber was a complete failure, but civ is a game of "what ifs" it could have worked

Sun crusher could use the super nova animation from the final frontier

The Tarkin (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Tarkin)


One thing, though, what types of units should the World Devastator be able to make? The way it works right now is that after destroying a planet plot, the unit gets "PROMOTION_PROCESSING". Then, on the beginning of your next turn, all units with Processing create either 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 units and loose that promotion. So I need to define what types of units should be creatable.


Wookieepedia says:The deconstruction of the planet and its resources would then be used for both fuel for the Devastator and for its massive foundries which churned out starships, starfighters, and droids which would be sent into battle straight from the assembly line. The internal factories could create anything from a starfighter or speeder to a medium-sized cruiser, given enough resources.[1]

So everything from small star fighters, to ships about the size of a dreadnought

I need specific names of units. I.e, UNIT_TIE_FIGHTER, UNIT_MEDIUM_CRUISER, whatever. So you'd have to give me a list of all units (and by list I mean the names of the units as they are in the XML) they can make.

Alternatively, if you give me unitcombats, like UNITCOMBAT_FIGHTER or UNITCOMBAT_CRUISER, I can loop through all units and get any with those unitcombats.

Actually, the unitcombats would be easier for me, whereas just giving me a list of units would be harder for me, and more annoying to write in code.

Early and mid 90's Star Wars especially loves superweapons. It was toned down a bit after that, thank God.

Centerpoint Station=can move planets, can create massive gravity wells(slow ship movement a lot)
It can also make stars go nova by crushing their cores. That's how it was used when first introduced in Corellian Trilogy back in 1995. I don't think that should be a kind of thing anyone could build tho. It's more like Precursor tech.

Another thing that destroys stars: That sith crystal thing aboard the Corsair:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corsair
That Supernova (Sith magic)

Oh, they though big in 80's Marvel Comics too sometimes:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shawken_Device

Early and mid 90's Star Wars especially loves superweapons. It was toned down a bit after that, thank God.:lol:


Oh, they though big in 80's Marvel Comics too sometimes:
That was stupid

I need specific names of units. I.e, UNIT_TIE_FIGHTER, UNIT_MEDIUM_CRUISER, whatever. So you'd have to give me a list of all units (and by list I mean the names of the units as they are in the XML) they can make.


Ok(I'm guessing on some of these):

(units added)

Tie Fighter
Tie bomber
Tie defender
At-At
At-St

(units not added)

Dreadnoughts
Interdictor cruisers

Take the star destroyer off the list and it'll work.
The Shawken Device could be used for a victory condition (New Big Bang?). Could this work? does anyone agree with this?

Take the star destroyer off the list and it'll work.
The Shawken Device could be used for a victory condition (New Big Bang?). Could this work? does anyone agree with this?

Star Destroyer off the list...done

The Shawken Device was only featured in Star Wars 87: Still Active After All These Years a Marvel Star Wars comic from 84. Not so reputable.

Even in the comic there was speculation of whether it would work or not so no I doubt it would work or even if it can fit in the modern canon

Also I don't think it would be all that fun of a victory; a wonder that can only be build on 1 planet and when activated they automatically win!:rolleyes: You could be fighting an enjoyable war or whatever and then POOF no more universe better luck next time. Is that any fun?

I don't know. That could be a bit like the space race in the regular game. Maybe with similar means for other players to stop it. You are right about the whole canonicity thing, however. EU didn't really exist before Thrawn trilogy, or the WEG RPG at the earliest. Any earlier stuff that's retroactively included is usually done so with very broad strokes and with a lot of retcon. This is especially so with the comics.

This was a pretty amusing article linked on that wiki page:
http://www.starwars.com/eu/lit/ref/f20080104/index.html?page=1

Yup I just double checked the Comics are S Canon

I guess it could be an optional victory condition (just for fun, or as a joke) or part of a mod mod

Ship Names coming soon!

Some more questions:

-Centerpoint Station isn't going to be easy to get to work properly. Moving a planet would be a nightmare because of 3-plot planets. I could do it without too much work if I didn't have to take into account you'd be moving planets in a specific direction. It took a lot of code to make the Force Push ability work at all, and that was just one unit. I'd have to store terrain type, feature type, bonus type, improvement type, lists for all units on the plot, if the plot is a city all buildings, all script data on objects on the plot, etc...

So I suggest we dump this for now- maybe forever, maybe not.

However, the gravity well works slightly better. I can make a recolor of the Black Hole to represent the Gravity Well (or just use the original Black Hole, whatever would be better) and then shrink it slightly to act as a feature created when it nukes something. It could then slow units nearby.

-Rather then make Star Forge do nothing for non-Dark Side units, I can limit the project from being built by civilizations who aren't Dark Side. (This is determined by Religion, correct?) Okay?

-And finally:

Death Stars=destroy planets
---
Sun Crusher=makes a small supernova destroys all units and planets within a given radius
Galaxy Gun=Can destroy any planet it wants 1 per turn
Darksaber=a very weak death star like weapon for the hutts (has a chance of not working?)
the tarkin=can destroy a planet

We really don't need 50 different "Destroys planets". Thus far, I've implemented three Death Stars with this ability and a Galaxy Gun with this ability (the only difference is that via XML you should make the GG have no limited range). The World Devastator can destroy a planet in several turns. The Sun Crusher can destroy a planet by making it a Supernova (the others make it an asteroid field). I strongly suggest dumping the Tarkin and Darksaber, as to me they seem uselessly repetetive. We already have quite a lot of planet destroyers... and there are a limited number of planets.

Darksaber: definately take out
Tarkin: maybe, it really just is a more advanced version of darksber that can work.
there has to be a way to destroy superweapons all we've talked about so far is how to make them destroy other things. How about this you have a special promotion some units can get that allows them to have a small chance to perform a mission to destroy a nearby superweapon. This should also be a promotion all spies have.

Darksaber: definately take out
Tarkin: maybe, it really just is a more advanced version of darksber that can work.
there has to be a way to destroy superweapons all we've talked about so far is how to make them destroy other things. How about this you have a special promotion some units can get that allows them to have a small chance to perform a mission to destroy a nearby superweapon. This should also be a promotion all spies have.

Yes, take darksaber out, probably the tarkin too



-Centerpoint Station isn't going to be easy to get to work properly. Moving a planet would be a nightmare because of 3-plot planets. I could do it without too much work if I didn't have to take into account you'd be moving planets in a specific direction. It took a lot of code to make the Force Push ability work at all, and that was just one unit. I'd have to store terrain type, feature type, bonus type, improvement type, lists for all units on the plot, if the plot is a city all buildings, all script data on objects on the plot, etc...

So I suggest we dump this for now- maybe forever, maybe not.

However, the gravity well works slightly better. I can make a recolor of the Black Hole to represent the Gravity Well (or just use the original Black Hole, whatever would be better) and then shrink it slightly to act as a feature created when it nukes something. It could then slow units nearby.

-Rather then make Star Forge do nothing for non-Dark Side units, I can limit the project from being built by civilizations who aren't Dark Side. (This is determined by Religion, correct?) Okay?

Centerpoint station: sounds good (I don't think anyone used the feature anyway apart from the creation of the Corillian system) (It would probably confuse the AI like you wouldn't believe)

Also the gravity well ability would be nice to have for Interdictor Cruiser (Immobilizers)

I thought star forge was a unit (no attack no defense) (pre palaced) sitting in space and every once in a while if a Dark Side civ or a rogue Sith got hold of it he could raise a huge army/Navy to threaten the galaxy

would this work
We make two or more different kinds of goody huts one is the regular, but the other ones require you to have a certain religion or be a special civ. so that you get special effects from those special goody huts while still having the original one. We should also put them into space with different graphics for each kind along with different rewards.

I have no idea how the Star Forge was supposed to work. However, you listed it here as a superweapon, and I said that all superweapons would be implemented as projects that created units, and no one said, "Not the Star Forge! That's supposed to be pre-set on the map!"

It would be a lot simpler to implement the Star Forge as an improvement, randomly placed (I can handle that) and if it is controlled (by building a starbase near it seems the best way*- speaking starbases I need to add them as well) it has a random chance of producing a unit per turn. (I can handle that too).

*Other ways could be an ability "Seize Star Forge" which makes the unit who cast it immobile on the Star Forge until it is destroyed, when which the Star Forge becomes "seizable" again.

would this work
We make two or more different kinds of goody huts one is the regular, but the other ones require you to have a certain religion or be a special civ. so that you get special effects from those special goody huts while still having the original one. We should also put them into space with different graphics for each kind along with different rewards.

What does this have to do with anything? I agree, but isn't it a little (way) off topic?

there has to be a way to destroy superweapons all we've talked about so far is how to make them destroy other things. How about this you have a special promotion some units can get that allows them to have a small chance to perform a mission to destroy a nearby superweapon. This should also be a promotion all spies have.

The easiest way to do this would be to make a Superweapon have UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON and create a promotion that gives a bonus against it.

To add a mission, you have to edit the SDK, and what you are describing would be annoying to add. The reason I use python action buttons instead of missions is because I'm not an SDK coder. So I don't think this is a good idea.

The way it looks now almost all of these units are completely invincible. I thought that it would be a good idea to add something that gives units a chance to destroy superweapons, but if they fail they die. Sorry if you thought it was off-topic.

Yes, I agree that the superweapons should be non-invincible. And- they aren't invincible. All I'm doing is defined what happens when they nuke something. You could make their strength 1 if you wanted...

I was referring to your comment about Goody Huts as being off topic, not your comment about weakening the Superweapons.

No I was using the goody hut as an example to show that the star forge might be used as a goody hut that gives you a special building in a nearby city or a unit or something that you could only get if you had a dark side unit or religion. Sorry for misphrasing that.

Starforge should be an improvement (preplaced)

Superweapons should be weak but have extreme power eg Death Star: can destroy planets easily destroyed by a small group of fighters

This is not realistic but I can't think a good gameplay way around it besides using hero units to destroy them or sabotaging them

What should the star forge do? In the movies they were extremely hard to destroy so why not use my idea of a promotion/mission to give a small chance of destroying the superwaepons. I'm pretty sure the hardest part would be getting the AI to understand it. I might be able to add in through the SDK. and then later I could merge it with CAR and The land transport mod when they get it working.

The issue is that it wouldn't be as simple as adding a mission to CvEnums.h. If that was all it would take, then I would probably learn SDK modding and do it myself- I've wanted to start SDK stuff for some time. It's just the compilation part that's held me back.

I don't know what it would require, or how to implement it. That's why I think it would be better to either make superweapons weak, or make them strong but unable to attack, and give a promotion that gives +100% against UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON.

We'll just make it plus 100% against superweapons because in the movies the superweapons are invincible except for a few minor flaws we could call it random luck or something like that.

We'll just make it plus 100% against superweapons because in the movies the superweapons are invincible except for a few minor flaws we could call it random luck or something like that.

There is not luck its all the force

Lando Calrissan destroyed the second Death Star without the force we can review the name but do you agree with the idea is what I need to know now so that I may add it in soon or decide to just leave it out and do something else.

land a special forces team in there and blow it up, at least thats what i would do to defeat a superweapon, special forces is going to be a unit class maybe we could use bounty hunters, special forces and spys that have the special ability to board and have a chance to destroy a super weapon

Ways to destroy a superweapon:

Sabatoge:can prevent the production of the unit (looses all hammers) and can't built it for a while

Hero: Hero unit destroys the superweapon

Suicidal strike: ram a large ship into it and hope it blows up

Jedi: Jedi destroy it

Starfighter Run: Small fighters launch an attack on a weak point

Massive Force: Huge Ship attack


BTW: Lando doesn't need the force to destory Death Stars; he's Billy Dee :cool:

I gues we could try all of those but now we have to decide how to make them work right.

Superweapons should be a late game feature that upsets the status quo. Should be very costly to build, but give the builder a good chance of winning the whole game. It's late game, after all. Could have some very specific ways to destroy them, but it shouldn't be easy. Sacrificing a hero unit sounds like one acceptable trade.

Superweapons should be a late game feature that upsets the status quo. Should be very costly to build, but give the builder a good chance of winning the whole game. It's late game, after all. Could have some very specific ways to destroy them, but it shouldn't be easy. Sacrificing a hero unit sounds like one acceptable trade.

Yes, anyone with a Death Star or the like could easily rule the galaxy.

Take an alternate Clone Wars as an example:

Lets say the Separatists weren't controlled by the sith, nor was the republic. The war goes on for years with the Separatists being pushed back into the rim, but it drags on. The Separatists build there ultimate weapon: The Death Star. Fly it to a key republic world and threaten to blow it up (or blow up a bunch of planets). Sepys win. 2 major power in the galaxy.


Hero units are the best idea I could think of:

You start out with some, some are assigned to you a specific time, other for building wonders, discovering techs... but they are very rare and precious.

Maybe we could add a Superweapon victory? Broken Star (packaged with BTS) has a Nukes Victory (or something like that) where if you have armed a certain amount of nukes (in that mod you have to capture and then arm nukes before using them) you win. Perhaps controlling X superweapons for Y turns each = victory.

If you don't do this in the main mod, perhaps I'll make a modmod along these lines. Or a scenario.

Once we get a working version out then we can start talking about scenarios, but I do agree on making the superweapon victory. I'll see if maybe I could add it into the SDK. So what have we decided on here?

Centerpoint Station=can move planets, can create massive gravity wells(slow ship movement a lot)
Star Forge=if under control of a dark side civ can produce 1 random unit per turn
Death Stars=destroy planets
World Devastator=eats planet square by square and can produce units (think mongol camp from warlords)
Sun Crusher=makes a small supernova destroys all units and planets within a given radius
Galaxy Gun=Can destroy any planet it wants 1 per turn

Ad some hero promotions that makes it so that you can destroy them. I'll see if I should add special code into the SDK for that or should it be in python?

Eventually we might also have a superweapon victory option to replace the space race. We haven't decided on this one yet so we'll have to work on it.

Does anyone think we should add or take anything away from this list?

Centerpoint Station won't be moving planets. Too annoying to implement. It will do this:

However, the gravity well works slightly better. I can make a recolor of the Black Hole to represent the Gravity Well (or just use the original Black Hole, whatever would be better) and then shrink it slightly to act as a feature created when it nukes something. It could then slow units nearby.


I'm also adding the Dark Reaper, unless anyone has any objections to that...?

The hero promotions would be easy to add, and wouldn't require SDK at all. You would give all Superweapons UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON, then make Superweapons very, very strong but give them bDefensiveOnly (so they could not attack other then nuke, but would be near invincibile defending). Then, you give the anti-Superweapon promotions +1000 (or something) percent against UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON.

No SDK or Python required.

The SDK or python work would be to make them die afterwards. i only want it to be a chance they'll win like 1 out of 10 chance it does nothing, 2 out of 10 chance the unit dies, 4 out of 10 chance the unit is just damaged, and finally 3 out of 10 chance they kill the superweapon. These are just beggining numbers because there wasn't a sure chance you'll kill a superweapon just a chance and I think this works nicely towards that purpose. I could add this into the SDK easily if I was given a chance. That means if you guys like the idea I'll add them in. If not we'll go with TC01's idea, or if someone suggests something else we could also go with that.
Does anyone have an idea on the Superweapon victory condition? Should I add it in or what, and what is it going to be. My current idea is that it is if you have 2 superweapons for 10-30 consecutive turns you win the game. I would have to add a new victory screen for this. that would probaly be the hardest part.

Super weapon Victory:

Death Star:

Build it like a space ship
If it survives for ten turns then you win

is there a way to get the other civs to throw all they have into this attack or to get them to sacrifice heros. I worry the AI will not do it.

Then we're going to have to teach the AI how to do it. I've been looking at BBAI's code and I think I understand it enough that I can progam the AI to go for the victory condition and kill anyone else who gets close.
One Death Star isn't enough I still think it should be any 2 superweapons for 15 consecutive turns.

If not an outright victory condition, the mere existence of a superweapon could cause unhappiness in enemy cities. See "Tarkin Doctrine."

I think a hero unit should be the most reliable way of taking out a superweapon, but there should be other ways to try depending which one it is. The Death Star is vulnerable to trench run, for example. Trying to attack with massive fleets could be worth a try as well. I don't think many of them have much of a defense against direct attack.

To give ideas for Centerpoint:
Maybe it was built to move planets, but the ways we have actually seen it used are different. Bear in mind that nobody could really figure out how exactly it worked. It took a very long time for anyone to figure out what it even is. So what have we seen it do?
First Corellian Insurrection: Make stars go nova, generate a huge interdiction field around the Corellian system to stop hyperspace travel and block FTL communications.
Yuuzhan Vong War: Destroy fleets of spaceships, clipped a bit of Fondor's surface too. Could probably ravage a planet's surface.

Trying to attack with massive fleets could be worth a try as well. I don't think many of them have much of a defense against direct attack.


Didn't somebody try that in he book "Death Star" and fail really badly?

It would probably work, but the in the movie they imply that the small fighters evade there turbo-lasers so they must have a purpose so I assume they take down large ships. the Death Star wars meant to take down a direct assault, but if you had a lot of warships a guess it could work. Could a planetary ion cannon disable the Death Star.

A bit of a rant;)

Rebels going against DSII in RotJ might be a better example. Didn't say it might be a good idea, but something you might want to try out of desperation. Death Star is also the more well rounded one of the superweapons listed. The others tend to be more of the glass cannon type.

- Centerpoint Station is more tool than a weapon and its best defense in a conventional fight is its mass and apparent lack of discernible weak points. It's stationary too.
- Star Forge didn't seem to have much defense beside the massive fleets protecting it either. Also probably stationary.
- The World Devastators seemed to do well in conventional fleet action. They are like big capital ships or carriers that can "eat" the enemy ships.
- Sun Crusher is nearly indestructible but small. Its best option would be to run away unless the pilot wants to ram the enemy ships one by one or blow up a nearby star. I think it would end up tractor beamed if it stuck around.
- Galaxy Gun doesn't seem to have conventional weapons either, or at least we never saw it to use any.

- Centerpoint Station is more tool than a weapon and its best defense in a conventional fight is its mass and apparent lack of discernible weak points. It's stationary too.
- Star Forge didn't seem to have much defense beside the massive fleets protecting it either. Also probably stationary.
- The World Devastators seemed to do well in conventional fleet action. They are like big capital ships or carriers that can "eat" the enemy ships.
- Sun Crusher is nearly indestructible but small. Its best option would be to run away unless the pilot wants to ram the enemy ships one by one or blow up a nearby star. I think it would end up tractor beamed if it stuck around.
- Galaxy Gun doesn't seem to have conventional weapons either, or at least we never saw it to use any.

Yes centerpoint station

Yes Star Forge: its just a way of building fleets kinda like a goodie hut on steroids

World Devastators can eat planets too

Sun Crusher: Its got power but its not a large ship its can be taken down easy if you survive the blast

Galaxy Gun: Yes, it was just suppose to orbit byss if I remember right (Dark Empire right?) shoot planets, using hyperspace torpedoes


Most superweapons are just a simple trick, ploy, terrible idea, deranged thoughts of a imperial remnant warlord, none of them really posed a much of a treat to the galaxy and the Death Star that was and is the only weapon that you can really rule the galaxy with. The others are just big guns

I've updated the python code with the new supeweapons included. See the Python Modding thread for more information.