The purpose of this thread is to compile an extensive list of cities for the civs in Dune Wars that would be as canonical as possible. Any argumentations and explanations of ideas what to include and where are welcome. Whenever something is proposed beyond the obviousness of the Frank Herbert's original map, a source needs to be pointed to. The reference material would primarily be first three books of Dune saga plus Dune Encyclopaedia. If they prove insufficient, both later books and Preludes and Interludes and whatever Herbert's son and Anderson produced together may be used too.

The status quo for the v.1.5 is as follows:

House Atreides
Castle Caladan
Atreus
Serena
Cidrit
Paradan
Salusan
Armada Bluff
Sihaya
Habbanya Erg
Vorian
Habbanya Ridge
Pundi
Elecran
Coral Qem
Atreides Landing
Cala City
Sision
Pavonis
Agamemnon
Zocom
Krasna45
Dujec
Langley
Fort Zone
Taqwa
Iber
Waten
Biddi
Rotinom
Tatnem
Alaum
K'Lom
House Ordos
Executrix
Ammon
Canopus
Grumman
Sikun
Bela Tegeuse
Ophiuchus
Poritrin
Epsilon Alangue
Epsilon Ophiuchi
Alangue
Rossak
Alpha Leporis
Alpha Centauri A
Alpha Centauri B
Proxima
Alpha Piscium
Vivr
Messit
Waff
Scatt
Wi-Ed
Nadal
Aining
Layr
Kobsa
Hako
Mauhk
Hamulago
Bene Tleilax
Bandalong
Xerxes
Sufi
Xuttuh
Rodale
Richese
Butlerian
Tleilaxu
Parmentier
Romo
Sikun
Ophiuchi A
Bi-La Kaifa
Missiva
Varota
Butlerian
Scyte
Ithaca
Powind
Axlotl
Lusu
Sligs
Denol
Adn
Fremen
Sietch Tabr
Arrakeen
Carthag
Hagga
Arsunt
Hagga
Sihaya
Tuono Basin
Splintered Rock
Broken Land
Cave of Birds
Wind Pass
Minor Erg
Palmaries
Mt. Idaho
Habbanya Erg
Habbanya Ridge
Plastic Basin
Observatory Mt.
Chakobsa
House Corrino
Imperial Base
Gamma Waiping
Pyon
Eridani A
Sardauk
Chusuk
Delta Pavonis
Harmonthep
Bela Tegeuse
Tiberium
Habla
Elrood
Auroris
Saudik
Orcat
Talons
Zorca
Mammooth
Scrin
Nod
Avatar
Shadow Peak
Corrinos
Orcast
Fire Hook
Dye Landing
Philadelphia Uplink
Saudak
Blue Tib
Green Tib
Kane
Blue Zone
Ponop
Minim
Herber
Ace
House Harkonnen
Giedi City
Harko City
Barony
Dmitri
Perdition Shallows
Sorrows
Flint
Obsidian
Slave Pits
Forest Guard
Mount Ebony
Fort Ancient
Barren Land
Flat Tramway
Raven
Tundra
Ophiuchi
Metali
Port of Sacrifice
Para-Co
Paspar
Sider
Ritic
Pyon
Schla
Saad
Geidi-Minor
Bene Gesserit
Chapterhouse
Gero
Lampadas
Palma
Laoujin
Tahaddi
Sirat
Mantene
Karaman
Khalam
Ibad
Ibn Qirtaiba
Ayati
Crysti
Semut
Servok
Shai
Cach
Han
Conven
Gerrat
Iltug
Dakin
Zace
Opafire
Ornit
Loine
Range
Mu'Zein
Assassin's Peak
Rahif
Ghola
Angel Isle
Dark City
House Ix
Ix City
Technia
Zoi
Icanax
Xuttuh
Titan Xerxes
Rodale
Ixian Solido
Gammu Prime
Shere
Haploid
Nayla
Siona
Gholia
Murbella
Chomma
Zannar
Dekk
Holbar
Seck
Toll
Baltheg
Riss Kai
Sordel
Oranit
Ixtar
Xelleck
Xorix
Geroth
Sythe'b
Kolloth
Rakin
B'athor
Fellbarg
House Ecaz
Ecaz City
Elacca
Jarezi
Sula
Polz
Semus
Unis
Tenim
Cazaris
Fukan
Terecca
Steri
Quendris
Buquinta
Iadam
Resti
Futac
Shahin
Marac
Haric
Armandis
Vidalis
Shekanim
Poikas
Zaneba
Jerac
Nadim
Ericcas
Mul
Jahaccas
Chek
Anos
Ruson
Arrakeen
Tuek's Sietch
Pasty Mesa
Red's Pass
Chin Rock
Gara Kulon
Harg Pass
False Wall-S
False Wall-E
Chise
Der'Sap
Kustmi

The reference map looks like this:

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Sands/4535/dmap.jpg

Ok, all Dune geeks, let us get to work.

I would probably be better to have a list of the existing ones - showing which faction is which. I know david generated this list, perhaps he could do that.

I produced another version of the map with the aim of improving readability here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221526&d=1248024049). All the habitated places from the map should probably be in the pot. I have an idea that Tuek's Sietch could make a good wonder instead of being a city name.

Also, a link to the Dune Encyclopedia (http://www.thedune.ru/duneenc/download/DUNE_ENCYCLOPEDIA.pdf). Not sure how much use it will be for this purpose, but it is quite a feat of imagination.

I think david's idea for having a couple of civ related names per civ and then a general pot of names is good. The one exeption might be the Fremen for whom there are probably closer to 20 appropriate names in the fiction.

First step would be to list all available geographical terms before inventing more specific ones and assosciating them with civs.

1. Sihaya Ridge
2. Habbanya Ridge
3. Habbanya Erg
4. Sietch Tabr
5. Arrakeen
6. Carthag
7. Arsunt
8. Hagga Basin
9. Tuono Basin
10. Splintered Rock
11. Broken Land
12. Cave of Birds
13. Wind Pass
14. Minor Erg
15. Palmaries of the South
16. Mount Idaho
17. Plastic Basin
18. Observatory Mount
19. Tuek's Sietch
20. Pasty Mesa
21. Red Chasm
22. Chin Rock
23. Gara Kulon
24. Harg Pass
25. False Wall South
26. False Wall East
27. False Wall West
28. Hole in the Rock
29. Shield Wall
30. Imperial Basin
31. Open Bled
32. Rimwall West
33. Old Gap
34. Tsimpo
35. Cave of Riches
36. Bight of the Cliff
37. Windsack
38. Rimwall Basin
39. Funeral Plain
40. Great Flat
41. Northern Cap
42. Northern Polar Sink
43. Cielago Depression

This is more or less it. However, there are plenty of unnamed dots on the map. It's easy to inflate the number of cities a bit by creative adding of station/village/sietch/basin/ridge/cave/gap/cliff/chasm/community to the thing we already have.

Before doing this, however, there's one good source of names - the naibs named in Dune Messiah. It's explicitly said that their sietches very often take names after them. We can extend that and use most of the Fremen names we have to create sietches like this. I will devote next post to that.

These are named places:

Tasmin Sink
Hobars Gap
Umbu Sietch
Sietch Makab

And these are just names of naibs (or other notable Fremen that could be Naibs but it was not said) to make places out of them:

Bikouros
Cahueit
Djedida
Abumojandis
Rajifiri
Saajid
Legg
Shishakli
Chatt
Merkur
Fash
Keke
Takim
Korba
Tecrube
Shamir

And some more full place names I just discovered or recalled while browsing:

Cave of Ridges
Coanua
Windgap Sietch
Sietch Abbir
Jacurutu
Plaster Basin

Dumb question from the Dune maps: what are the Pyon villages? What does pyon mean?

Not damp. Pyon is a lowly worker, the debilitated once-Fremen or an unfortunate offworlder who got addicted to spice but cannot afford it in other way than just staying on Dune, and their descent; destined to live and suffer want in the dirt of graben and pan. Most of them prolly do low-paid jobs in spice mining industry.

Ah, so pyons (like peons) are just the workers who live in the villages.

I always used to read it as Pylon villages (for some strange reason) and got terribly confused.

I would probably be better to have a list of the existing ones - showing which faction is which. I know david generated this list, perhaps he could do that.

That is what is inside his spoiler in the first post. He copied it from my post in the modpack thread. I copied it from your new 1.5.1 file and stripped the formatting. In my post I had the civilization names in bold so you could see which cities go to which civ, but that is minor.

Most of the names on that list are good, or at least servicable, but the homeworld/starsystem names bugs me. More so than the C&C references, for some reason.

My favoured capital city names would be:

Atreides - Arrakeen
Harkonnen - Carthag
Fremen - Sietch Tabr

Beyond that it gets harder. Fenring's suggestion of Selamlik for Corrino is OK, but that is really just an audience chamber. Maybe Imperial Seat would be good enough?

I was giving the concept of city naming some further thought. What I really enjoyed was the association of city names with points on map that Rhye's and Fall has. I think it would be good for hardcore Dune map once it is made, but for now on I think that it would be of great sense to associate the name with the type of terrain you find the city upon. Like ergs and bleds and flats go to the cities by the desert, polar somethings go to the polar zones, ridges, peaks and so forth to higher ground, pans and sinks to lower. On a balanced map there should be no problem with exploiting one list and not exploiting the other, but if such thing happens, the less favoured list could just trigger in. Is it codable?

As far as first capital city is concerned - we have virtually no problem with the Fremen. I think the Fremen should have a normal, separate list for themselves that contains only names of sietches - it's easily doable. Then we could either set Sietch Tabr as the first one or let it go random - it could be cool to start with Gara Kulon or Sietch Makab.

The offworld Great Houses and other factions are a major problem. For them, I would not advocate fixing them permanently to any of the Dune cities - there's nothing about them that makes Arrakkeen uniquely Atreides and Carthag uniquely Harkonnen. Both changed hands often, both were handled by Sardaukar or Corrino lackeys at certain point of time before the main plot started.

For the factions, I would go for really generic names for capitals. Noble titles that do not repeat are of help. We can have:

Ducal Seat - Atreides
Baronial Seat - Harkonnen
Imperial Seat - Corrino
Archducal Seat - Ecaz
Earlish Seat - Vernius (I hope we will exchange Malky who is as late as God Emperor into Dominic, Rhombur or Bronso Vernius to be more in tune with main timeline)
Missionaria Protectiva - Sisterhood
Tleilaxu Base - Tleilax

Or anything along the lines. The other names would be either from the Dune features list or later more in that type, like Atreides Outpost, Ecazi Military Base and so forth (a bit like in Planetfall).

What do you think of it?

The names of capitol cities are the things that players are guaranteed to see over and over again. I do not think we should choose "Ducal Seat" or similar generic names. What do other people think about this?

It is not hard to put in a new list of names. But, it should be 20 cities x 9 civs = 180 names. I agree this is a big project. Alternatively, if you want to point out some particular names from the list, which you hate, we can remove those. I do not recognize where all the names are from, so a generic instruction like "remove the star system names" does not give me quite enough information to do anything.

I do not think we should choose "Ducal Seat" or similar generic names

These are a little boring.

Possibly taking and tweaking some real middle-eastern earth city/town/geographic feature names might help fill out the 180.

For example:
Heblon
Yatsa
Al Zarqa
Giran Heights
Nalour
Sahab
Kuba
Maklah
Jizran
Sana'ar
Al Sain
Ghammaz
Palmyral
Manbiji
Tartrus

etc. etc.

We can add "Sietch" to the names of many of these for Fremen cities.

We could us tweaked Greek names for Atreides cities, russian names for Harkonnen, chinese or japanese names for ordos, indian names for Tleilaxu ("Bandalong" sounds south asian), german names for corrino.

I think we should implement a separate list of city names that can be used by all civs as suggested. It sounds simple enough to do. Then civs use the names in their own list of names (which may be only the capital), before moving on to taking names from the new Arrakis place names pot. I think this is a nice flavourful change that is worth doing. Each time you play - different city names go to different civs. It adds a sprinkling of variety and a sense of place to Arrakis - the planet is fixed and not shaped by the factions who vie for it.

Checking the Planetfall implementation of Sea Base names there are two separate lists for each Civ within the tags <Cities> and <SeaBases> in the civilization infos xml. Could give pointers on where to find the code...

We can just keep the list of shared city names in DuneWars.xml I guess. I can do some work on drafting the list based on the info/suggestions here - but the SDK coding is beyond my current reach.

Doing placenames that change with the terrain is a cool idea - but more work. Plus cities may only be built on Sinks and Flatland now, not Mesa.

I can easily do something related in python. Here is what I propose.

For Fremen, fill in a list of city names in civilizationinfos.xml.

For each other civ, fill in *one* city name in civilizationinfos.xml.

Supply a list of names in a python file, which I will seed with the names from post 3, Fenring's list of named places. You can make this as short or long as you want, with as many varieties as you want.

I will add a python routine which sets the name of the city when built, unless it is Fremen or a capitol city. The routine will randomly pick one name from the list, ensuring no duplicates until the list is exhausted, then it will reload the list and start again.

From python, there is no way to see the list of city names for a civ given in the xml, or to tell when it has run out. With this proposal, that is not needed; I can make strong assumptions about those lists, and override the choice when I need to.

Does this seem like the right approach, or is it too simple?

Is the idea here that Fremen will have different city names (ie Sietch X) than other civs?

Is the idea here that Fremen will have different city names (ie Sietch X) than other civs?

Yes, that is what was suggested: Fremen have fixed names, all the other civs share a pool. I am neutral, on whether this is an improvement, but I am willing to implement something which seems to be a popular request.

From python, there is no way to see the list of city names for a civ given in the xml, or to tell when it has run out.

Well, not exactly...

CvCivilizationInfo has both a .getCityNames(i) and a .getNumCityNames() method. CyPlayer also has a .getNumCityNames().

In conjunction with CyStatistics.getPlayerNumCitiesBuilt(iPlayerID), you could probably allow variable length city name lists, only setting the name when the current city is off the end of the list.

But that may be more to mess with than you want. "Just one name" is much easier.

But that may be more to mess with than you want. "Just one name" is much easier.

I had not actually looked. Thank you for the details. The difference between one unique name for a civ, and a short list of unique names, is small from the gameplay standpoint but harder from the implementation standpoint. I suppose the barbarian civ city name list could be overloaded as the list of common names, so that modders who can edit xml but not python could still change the names.

For Fremen, fill in a list of city names in civilizationinfos.xml.

For each other civ, fill in *one* city name in civilizationinfos.xml.

Supply a list of names in a python file, which I will seed with the names from post 3, Fenring's list of named places. You can make this as short or long as you want, with as many varieties as you want.

Sounds like a reasonable solution. I guess having the city names in XML requires more work, and editing a Python file is just as easy.

The proposal for integrated Fremen cities list:

1. Sietch Tabr
2. Gara Kulon
3. Sietch Makab
4. Sietch Abbir
5. Coanua
6. Windgap Sietch
7. Tasmin Sink
8. Hobars Gap
9. Umbu Sietch
10. Jacurutu
11. Bikouros Sietch
12. Cahueit Caves
13. Djedida Pan
14. Abumojandis Gap
15. Rajifiri's Nest
16. Saajid Cliffs
17. Legg Abode
18. Shishakli's Place
19. Chatt's Leap
20. Merkur Sietch
21. Keke Hideout
22. Takim Rock
23. Tecrube Sietch
24. Shamir Wall
25. Fash Lookout
26. Tuek's Sietch
27. Bannerjee's Post

My suggestion is that Fremen should share the list with "barbarians". It would be reasonable fluff-wise, as Fremen tribes tend to integrate and disintegrate and rival one another and generally seek independence and entertain certain distaste for central authority (as proven by the content of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune). In this context, I would also suggest creating a category of Independent (Smuggler?) cities, just like in Rhye's and Fall - that you cannot have detailed diplomatic relations with, but you can be at peace with unless you step into their territory. I think the pool is sufficient to support all mentioned groups (if not, I can invent some more).

Once we agree on that, I will try to arrange a general list for other civs.

The proposal for integrated Fremen cities list:

Great, thanks. There are three more lists: one capitol city per civ; other city names; and barbarian city names. I'd rather not share a list of 25 names between Fremen and barbarians; the list would need to be longer.

As said before I think these are good choices for Capitals:

Atreides - Arrakeen
Harkonnen - Carthag

Beyond that we have to be a bit creative. Brainstorm:

Ordos - Acquisition Sigma
Corrino - Imperial Hutment
Bene Gesserit - School of Arrakis
Ecaz - Fogwood Landing
Ix - New Vernii
Tleilaxu - Tleilaxu Enclave

(Fremen is Sietch Tabr according to Fenring's list)

"Hutment" seems a bit wrong for the Emperor. A hutment is just a collection of huts or small temporary buildigns. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hutment
I know thats the term they use for the Emperor's landing structure thing, but again, thats temporary, not a palace.

I prefer Academy to school for Bene G.
How about New Xuttuh (their rename of Ix) or New Bandalong (their homeword capital) for Bene Tl?

Should we make Hagga a capital?

Is this 20ish per faction a commonsensical number or is it dictated by the coding needs? What's more: are there a reliable simulation how many cities maps designed for Dune Wars may actually host? How many cities barbarians tend to found per game?

I think the easiest solution is to use for "natives" cathegory the same general list we're about to design for non-native faction if their original list is depleted. That said, I think I can employ my inventiveness to make it a tad longer. For a joint native list, how many names do you actually need?

To rephrase my point and make it clear, I think it should look like this:

Capital Cities of non-native factions ----> General list
List for native factions -----> General list

Overall, I think 80 to 100 names for all factions combined can be designed this way or another. Will it be insufficient?

Is this 20ish per faction a commonsensical number or is it dictated by the coding needs?

It is commonsensical. From the code standpoint, you could easily have two city names in the list. That means if you have 10 cities, 5 will have one name and 5 will have the other. There are a lot of variables, such as map size, number of players, game difficulty which make it impossible to give a hard limit. It is probably reasonable for a winning civ to have 10-15 cities. For a single civ city list, 20 does not seem like overkill. For an 11 player game, where each player has 10 cities, and the city list is shared, it seems like at least a hundred would be needed.

We can combine the "non-capital cities of non-Fremen civs" and "barbarian" into a single list, but it should still be at least 100.

SL04 Barb City names need some change because they use vanilla barb list names, and thats seems wrong

I'm keen to push this City Names thing forward. It is a simple way to add flavour.

@David: If I can come up with the required list of 100+ city names using the input from this thread. Can you do the python bits and include in version 1.6.3?

If I can come up with the required list of 100+ city names using the input from this thread. Can you do the python bits and include in version 1.6.3?

Yes, I can do that. To restate: we need a good capitol name for each civ; we need 20 specific Fremen city names; and we need 100 other names which will be allocated randomly to all other cities. However, I would like to get one other person voting in favor of random names. When I play a certain civ multiple times, I come to know the names of the second and third cities, so I can more easily remember things about them. With random names, there is no way to associate city names with anything across multiple games.

How do others feel about random name assignment for all non-capitol cities?

I like random idea, hovever each civ should keep some list for original ones to keep own flavor , so not completely random, lets say each 5th name should be Civ specific.

I like random idea, hovever each civ should keep some list for original ones to keep own flavor , so not completely random, lets say each 5th name should be Civ specific.

Let us agree on something. As noted earlier in the thread, I know how to set the capitol city name, that happens once early in the game. Keeping track of how many names have been allocated by the game is harder. I am sure it is possible, but I don't know how to do it. For example, city #2 may be destroyed before city #4 is built.

So if most people want 5 names kept for each civ then the project will have to go onto the back burner. We could have a different project, to review and fix up the "worst offenders" in the existing name lists; that is fine and it is a pure xml change. See earlier in the thread for the full existing name lists.

Let us agree on something. As noted earlier in the thread, I know how to set the capitol city name, that happens once early in the game. Keeping track of how many names have been allocated by the game is harder. I am sure it is possible, but I don't know how to do it. For example, city #2 may be destroyed before city #4 is built.

So if most people want 5 names kept for each civ then the project will have to go onto the back burner. We could have a different project, to review and fix up the "worst offenders" in the existing name lists; that is fine and it is a pure xml change. See earlier in the thread for the full existing name lists.

I am ok with any of your choices and i agree with you. If its hard to implement, we can put it on long-term possible goals list, and for now just to
1. revise existing lists
2. Make all that random
I am ok with both. For me current names are really good, except barbarian ones, which are from vanilla barb list.

How do others feel about random name assignment for all non-capitol cities?

I am relatively indifferent. I don't really remember my cities by name, I remember them by "the one over there with lots of mesa tiles", or "the one on the island I have making aircraft" or the one on the border with the Ordos".

To restate: we need a good capitol name for each civ; we need 20 specific Fremen city names; and we need 100 other names which will be allocated randomly to all other cities.

Ok, I'll make the list. I think a civ unique capitol name, and random after that is fine with me.

When I play a certain civ multiple times, I come to know the names of the second and third cities, so I can more easily remember things about them. With random names, there is no way to associate city names with anything across multiple games.

I guess the only thing this can really help with is knowing "That is the third city I built" - but is that really a useful thing to know? Surely that's the only thing that is common across multiple games.

I generally remember cities more by location than by name like Ahriman.

I've blitzed out these. Capitals, 20 Fremen cities and 100 other names. The real dune names run out pretty quickly, so I've followed Ahriman's suggestion and used some Arabic placenames - there are lists of old Arabic placenames in Portugal and Spain that were quite handy. They are also a few known Fremen words in the pot too. We might want to put Rock, Pass, Gap, Basin, etc after some of these. This list is by no means perfect, but is hopefully an improvement of the names we have now which are real mixed bag.

I have mental block for the Imperial capitol so if you have a better suggestion...

CAPITALS:
Atreides - Arrakeen
Harkonnen - Carthag
Bene Gesserit - Chapterhouse
Ordos - Acquisition Sigma
Corrino - Imperial Seat
Ecaz - Fogwood Landing
Ix - New Vernii
Tleilaxu - New Bandalong

FREMEN:
Sietch Tabr
Gara Kulon
Sietch Makab
Sietch Abbir
Coanua
Windgap Sietch
Tasmin Sink
Hobars Gap
Umbu Sietch
Bikouros Sietch
Cahueit Caves
Djedida Pan
Abumojandis Gap
Rajifiri's Nest
Tecrube Sietch
Sietch Legg
Shishakli's Place
Chatt's Leap
Merkur Sietch
Bannerjee's Post

100 RANDOM NAMES:
Arsunt
Tsimpo
Hagga Basin
Tuono Basin
Splintered Rock
Wind Pass
Red Chasm
Chin Rock
Harg Pass
Cave of Ridges
Plastic Basin
Old Gap
Cave of Riches
Bight of the Cliff
Windsack
Hole in the Rock
Keke Hideout
Takim Rock
Saajid Cliffs
Shamir Wall
Fash Lookout
Sihaya Ridge
Habbanya Ridge
Heblon Gap
Yatsa Ridge
Al Zarqa
Nalour
Sahab
Kuba Rock
Maklah
Jizran Pass
Al Sain
Ghammaz
Palmyral
Manbiji Chasm
Tartrus
Taqwa
Sirat
Qulumriyah
Ahmim
Istiggah
Asmara
Atar
Bangazi
Al Basit
Tabuk
Tirwal
Tutilah
Garundah
Al Higaz
Harmah
Zuwarah
Suqutrah
Sabtah
Susah
Sahnin
Sinqit
Siqubiyah
Tarifah
Al Aqabah
Unayzah
Garnatah
Al Qamar
Qina
Kayhaydi
Al Mudawwar
Martulah
Nagirah
Nagamima
Walbah
Yaburah
Al Yassanah
Shadda
Maqbara
Kaymun
Bidriyah
Alazor
Akrab Pass
Midri Rock
Nayha Gap
Tawalil
Al Muzakki
Al Gharb
Al Khadra
Jayyan
Al Qibdas
Julumaniya
Yalbash
Al Juza
Ukhshunuba
Yabura
Al Ushbuna
Shantarim
Kulimriya
Antaniya
Cave of Tears
Marajiq
Sintara
Kuriya
Tabira

Ix - New Xuttuh

This doesn't work. Xuttuh was the Tleilaxu name for Ix. The Ixians never used it.
I suggested New Xuttuh OR New Bandalong for a Tleilaxu capital.
New Vernii was fine IMO for Ix.

And maybe Chapterhouse instead of Academy for BGs?

How about Imperial Seat, rather than Base for Corrino.

The random list looks nice.

I suggest those for imperial capitol:
Head of Lion
City of Lion
Golden Landing


More cities :

Falhj
Masayr
Nib-Kuhdi
City of Saluric Mesa
Kajh-Ahiri
Ayatayana
Nibra
Sulfi-I'Ayur

This doesn't work. Xuttuh was the Tleilaxu name for Ix. The Ixians never used it.
I suggested New Xuttuh OR New Bandalong for a Tleilaxu capital.
New Vernii was fine IMO for Ix.


I got confused by the suggestions - I'll amend.

And maybe Chapterhouse instead of Academy for BGs?

Yeah, that is better isn't it?

How about Imperial Seat, rather than Base for Corrino.

I can go for that. I'll update the post.

The issue that my Ordos ally (Roma) capitol named New Bandalong.
Seems because certain civs have not 1 player but more all things messed up.
But its very odd that Ordos have BTl capitol name, while BTl in game.

Mey be need to assign more than 1 capitol name for civ? (lets say 3 and each game you will have random one of 3 name for capitol)

This is something we didn't think of. Perhaps we need 2 or 3 capitol names per civ?

Yep. Multiple leaders for civ is normal - for mp and sp as well. (Lets say fight between Alia and Leto II setting , or fight for Emperror throne Paul , Feyd, Rabban :D )

It will be also cool because even when you start new game with same civ your capital might be named differently , and thats cool.

Also we need to check landmass amount for huge maps (esp low desert setting)
May be 100 is not enough *shrug*
Arrakis script is big one, Freemen are not always in game.

It will be also cool because even when you start new game with same civ your capital might be named differently , and thats cool.

What happens in vanilla in this case? For example Napoleon vs Charles DeGaulle. Don't both get capitol cities named Paris? I have not done anything special to handle this.

What happens in vanilla in this case? For example Napoleon vs Charles DeGaulle. Don't both get capitol cities named Paris? I have not done anything special to handle this.

Ne, they just get next name from France list.
But now we have not just random list names. There is some bug which causing Capitol names to mix - Harkonnen get BG names, Atriedes - Corrino, Corrino - Tleilaxu etc.

This have 2 fixes:
a.To fix only this issue when wrong civ gets civ specific capitol name.
b. Make at least 3 civ specific capitol names for each civ.

Both of them are good.

I seem to recall that if you use all the names in your own list, the normal BtS behavior is to randomly pick another civ's list of names that hasn't been used yet.

If a civ's list has only 1 name in it, the first version of the civ uses that name. Then the 2nd version of the same civ would then randomly pick another civ's list. It may not matter if that civ is in the game, so it may have just stolen the capital name of a civ that is in the game which then tries to found its first city and so picks another civ's list (and so on...).

Or something like that.

I seem to recall that if you use all the names in your own list, the normal BtS behavior is to randomly pick another civ's list of names that hasn't been used yet.

If a civ's list has only 1 name in it, the first version of the civ uses that name. Then the 2nd version of the same civ would then randomly pick another civ's list. It may not matter if that civ is in the game, so it may have just stolen the capital name of a civ that is in the game which then tries to found its first city and so picks another civ's list (and so on...).

Or something like that.

Bingo!!!!
We found why its messed.
Then best solution is to make Civ specific lists 5 strings - 5 names (instead only 1 capital)
That will solve problem.

Capitals built immidiately, using BTS mechanic (without name "overflow"), and then its just going smooth using random list mechanics.

Unrelated to this issue, I quite fancy having a play with the Python to implement Fenring's idea of making the city names responsive to the terrain. Since as of now over 2/3s of the random list are just single Arabic placenames this would give a bit more flavour.

So when picking from the random list, if the city site is on Sink we append the words Gap, Sink or Basin randomly; Rock or Rugged could be <Name> Rock, <Name> Ridge or <Name> Chasm. I'd need to make sure somehow that the name didn't already have a feature component - we don't want Tuono Basin Basin. The first part of the random name should still be considered "used" and should not be used for another city.

Bingo!!!! We found why its messed.

Thanks God-Emperor for the solution. We could definitely use your help on more issues like this one.

If anybody would like to try a simple solution, try editing your civilizations/civ4civilizationinfos.xml file like this. For each of the 9 civs, find the lines like:

<Cities>
<City>Arrakeen</City>
</Cities>

Copy/paste the City line so it looks like this:

<Cities>
<City>Arrakeen</City>
<City>Arrakeen</City>
<City>Arrakeen</City>
</Cities>

The python code will only use the first name anyway. But by making the list three names long, the game engine will not skip onto a random civ list when it places three copies of the same civ. This is an xml-only change which should solve the problem, unless there are more aspects we have overlooked so far.

I think there should not be 3 Arrakeens , but 3 different names. even 5. I think it also may lead to crushes/issues when same names are used.
Lets just fill Civ-Specific lists with 5 names for next patch.

Also i like idea of Deliverator. If its implementable that would be awesome.

Did experiment. Gave Atreides 3 different city names:

<Cities>
<City>Arrakeen</City>
<City>Hawk's Nest</City>
<City>Ducal Seat</City>
</Cities>

Then started a game with 4 instances of the Atreides civ. The capitol names were Arrakeen, Hawk's Nest, Ducal Seat and New Vernii (from the Ix list). Ix were also in the game.

So if you want each instance of a civ to have a different capitol then that can be done this way.

I've got the terrain dependent names almost working.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233187&stc=1&d=1257168573

Here's my Python code:

# Check several conditions when city is built
def onCityBuilt(self, argsList):
pCity = argsList[0]
self.Initialize()
iOwner = pCity.getOwner()
# Add Tlei religion if Tlei city; add holy city for capital
if iOwner == self.iPTlei:
pCity.setHasReligion(self.iRTlei, true, false, false)
if pCity.isCapital():
CyGame().setHolyCity(self.iRTlei, pCity, true)
# If not capitol or Fremen, assign name from global list
pPlay = gc.getPlayer(iOwner)
iCiv = pPlay.getCivilizationType()
if (not pCity.isCapital()) and (iCiv != self.iCFrem):
pBarb = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
iBarbCiv = pBarb.getCivilizationType()
pInfo = gc.getCivilizationInfo(iBarbCiv)
n = pInfo.getNumCityNames()
i = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(n, "cityname")
baseCityName = pInfo.getCityNames(i)
hillsSuffixArray = ["Sink", "Basin", "Chasm", "Pan", "Caves"]
nonHillsSuffixArray = ["Rock", "Pass", "Ridge", "Gap", "Lookout"]
exceptionsArray = ["Cliff", "Cave", "Windsack"]
allSuffixArray = []
allSuffixArray.extend(hillsSuffixArray)
allSuffixArray.extend(nonHillsSuffixArray)
allSuffixArray.extend(exceptionsArray)
cityNameSuffix = ""
bAppendTerrainSuffix = true
for mySuffix in allSuffixArray:
if mySuffix in baseCityName:
bAppendTerrainSuffix = false
break
if bAppendTerrainSuffix == true:
if pCity.plot().isHills():
ihs = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(len(hillsSuffixArray) + 1, "hillsuffix")
if ihs <= len(hillsSuffixArray):
cityNameSuffix = " " + hillsSuffixArray[ihs]
else:
ihs = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(len(nonHillsSuffixArray) + 1, "nonhillsuffix")
if ihs <= len(nonHillsSuffixArray):
cityNameSuffix = " " + nonHillsSuffixArray[ihs]
pCity.setName(baseCityName + cityNameSuffix, false)


I am testing whether the selected random name contains any of my possible suffixes before appending. I am also trying to leave a chance that they will be no suffix - that's why I'm doing len(hillsSuffixArray) + 1 in the getSorenRandNum function.

There is an occasional issue, the 6th city I placed down in the screen shot, Hawk's Nest, is coming from the capitols list for the Atreides which is an error. I have done some testing and the sixth city always seems to be a randomly selected capitol name, e.g. Sietch Tabr for the Tleilaxu sixth city. After that I get a mixture of capitol names and random ones. So it seems I have a systematic error - any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Gave Atreides 3 different city names ... So if you want each instance of a civ to have a different capitol then that can be done this way.

That's good news. If we give each civ a list of 5 names, then unless you get six instances of a civ in one game, the capitols will all be named differently. However, please note that the #2 ... #5 names in the list will never be used with the current python. The city list is only used for capitals.

Who would like to propose five capital names for each civ? The list can be easily pasted into the xml file.

I've got the terrain dependent names almost working ...
I am testing whether the selected random name contains any of my possible suffixes before appending.

Great! It may be easier to simply edit the list of names in the XML and remove the suffixes from any names which have them. This makes the code simpler.

There is an occasional issue, the 6th city I placed down in the screen shot, Hawk's Nest, is coming from the capitols list for the Atreides which is an error.

I guess you are placing these cities using WB. In general items placed using WB do not fire the related python events. For example, if you place a Fremen melee unit using WB, it will not come out with the Sandrider promotion. The city naming code is in the python onCityBuilt event. I do not think this is even called when a city is placed using WB. I suggest a better way may be to use WB to give yourself a whole bunch of settlers, and then found the cities in-game instead of using WB to place the cities.

Great! It may be easier to simply edit the list of names in the XML and remove the suffixes from any names which have them. This makes the code simpler.

I've done a bit of this too, but I thought it would be nice to keep the few canonical names we have with a proper suffix.

I guess you are placing these cities using WB.

I was placing settlers using the WB and then founding the cities properly so I think that the bug I described still stands.

I was placing settlers using the WB and then founding the cities properly so I think that the bug I described still stands.

Please, when you write new python code, turn on python alerts and/or look into your PythonErr.log file. Your code generates alerts which clearly indicate the problem.

ihs = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(len(hillsSuffixArray) + 1, "hillsuffix")
if ihs <= len(hillsSuffixArray):

The test should be "less than", not "less than or equal to". The list numbering starts at 0. The hills array is length 5, and valid entries are 0-4. What happens is when the random number generator returns 5, you get an exception that the list is not that long. Since the function exits after the exception, the game picks a name. As God-Emperor has pointed out, when the xml city name list is empty, it picks another random civ name list.

Please change <= to < in two places when comparing to len(list), and I think you will see the correct behavior.

Thanks. I'm still getting the hang of this Python lark. I had LoggingEnabled = 1, but I'm sure my log was empty. Nevermind. I'll set HidePythonExceptions = 0 and then hopefully it will be more obvious when there is a Python error.

Be careful with "getSorenRandNum". It will break multiplayer...

Be careful with "getSorenRandNum". It will break multiplayer...

What do you recommend? I have always used this function and never gotten complaints of OOS.

@ Deliverator, I have copied your code for the terrain-specific names into 1.6.4. If you have a modified civilizationinfos.xml which you are happy with, please send. Also, I guess we need to have N capital city names per civ, where N > max number of instance of the civ. For example, 3 names will protect against up to 3 instances of the civ. If you have suggestions for these names, you can add it into the civilizationinfos.xml when you send it.

Cool. I decided to removed "Caves" from the Sink city suffixes - the names with Caves added didn't really have a Dunish ring to them. So I have:

hillsSuffixArray = ["Sink", "Basin", "Chasm", "Pan"]
nonHillsSuffixArray = ["Rock", "Pass", "Ridge", "Gap", "Lookout"]
exceptionsArray = ["Cliff", "Cave", "Windsack"]

I've attached my updated CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml I've tidied up the random names a bit and changed a few names I didn't like so much. I have added three capitol cities each for the non-Fremen civs, but these are only three *unique* capitol names for Atreides and Ordos right now - the others are just the same name repeated. I'll try to come up with alternate capitol names for the other ones.

I've found something, which confused me
please check screenshot, its from our succession game.
SL13
perhaps names dragged from list in random mode overlap sometimes.

Why is this confusing? It is a really long cave, with one end in each city. You would cry also, if you had to walk that far.

You are correct that today the game does not remember which names have been used. There are 100 names in the list. It should use each name in the list once, before starting over. Once I make that change, it will still be *possible* to have cities with the same name, but only after the map has a total of 100 cities. That is pretty rare. The same thing could happen in vanilla if an individual civ had more than about 20-25 cities.

The implementation is a little complicated since the list of "used" city names must be stored when the user saves a game, or else it must be recreated if the user loads a game. I was planning to do this, but I did not get to it yet.

So you say - "just walk thru that cave, lad, and knock those ecazi's heads!", 'aight? :D