We all know how to use our Praetorians and our Axemen, our Riflemen and our Grenadiers, our Cavalry and our Cuirassiers. Trebuchets and Catapults are oft-discussed, Artillery is self-explanatory, and Galleons? A cinch!

But what about those weird units, the ones you think you'll never use in most situations?

Pikemen? Ballista Elephants? What about Mobile SAMs or Ironclads? Same thing goes for the Longbowman or the Spearman. Sure there are one-liners (fortify the Longbow. Use the Spear to guard against Chariots during an axe rush) - but is this the best we can do?

Post any tips you have for using units that are less common then their era counterparts.

Pikes - often your best cannon guard if the opponent has access to cuirassers but not cavalry. Actually, even knights (which are usually at least combat II and ignore any drill promos you use) can scuff cannons up, and pikes are a lot cheaper. They clean up well enough after cannon collateral.

Longbows - Longbows are actually pretty dynamic. Holding no hard counters, they aren't bad for cleaning up after siege (especially high drill PRO guys). However, they also come in tandem with feudalism. In multiplayer, they have the obnoxious ability to go 6-7 strong into enemy territory with guerrilla II and cause trouble on hills...a lot stronger than one might expect. Unlike other siege follow up in their time, these guys hold the newly captured cities pretty well, too.

Ballista Elephant - Come on, do you really need to see tips for this? No matter how little it is improved over a basic elephant, it's still a friggin' elephant. It still rapes everything but pikes until gunpowder, and pikes are poor vs axes.

Mobile SAM - Don't use it much, but it probably does very well against air when combined with mech infantry and mobile arty. Without access to oil, probably very important against air if the game isn't over yet. It usually will be.

Ironclad - OK garrison for seafood. You probably want steel for cannons, ironworks, dry docks, and later techs anyway. Might as well plunk a few of these guys down to take care of those crappy frigate pillage missions. It sucks otherwise but it at least has a purpose.

Explorer - Useless in standard games, but can be pretty nice with advanced starts or later era starts. IMO they should be able to attack barbs :p.

Spears - Not very good offensively. Impi can pull some nonsense though.

Anti Tank - I seem to be one of the few people who like them. They can get AA promos (the first unit that does it decently IMO), and more importantly they take care of the only unit that can cost effectively beat infantry in the field until advanced flight, robotics, or computers + composites. They are stack defense, and can be used to clean up units damaged by arty. Speaking of arty, the same tech unlocks both of these...

Tactical Nuke - Gift these to weak sucker AIs to just murder the strong warmonger at no diplo penalty.

Archer - Generally sucks, but good war players have learned to settle hill cities near aggressive AIs and abuse the combination of 50% hills, 50% city, 25% fortify, and at least 20% CG. Very strong at 7.35 str for their cost, and that's BEFORE culture d or walls. Everyone knows to use them as anti-barbs if they don't want to spawn bust super aggressively with warriors.

(edit) Airships - Another under-used unit actually. Their recon is RIDICULOUSLY good, you can really plan how to take on stacks or conveniently watch activity anywhere in the world with ease. However, the 20% damage isn't bad either. There aren't many contemporary units that can damage airships (first being the quite-poor-at-it machine guns). They are excellent for taking the edge off enemy units before you attack them. Whereas a cannon or arty might have lost on attack before you now have fewer losses. Also, airship + cavalry is serviceable even against rifles.

ironclads and airships- the play of masters

as one of the greatest ironclad and airship utilizer of all time ...

Fact- airship locates enemy and bombs

Fact- Ironclad comes out of port and kills

Fact- the Manasses took on the mississippi fleet

Fact- They had observation balloons that should have been given to the navy

the evidence is clear- Ironclads and Airships- this is the superior

Ballista Elephants are the ultimate unit for active classical/medieval defensive warfare, in combination with the crossbowman. How it works is that if an enemy stack enters your lands it is usually hard to attack because all units have their specfic counters in this era. The crossbowman for example can take on longbowmen and crossbowmen at parity, and will be at an advantage against melee units, but is at a disadvantage against mounted units. The BE's ability to target mounted units in a stack solves this issue though. First you attack a stack with BE's taking out the mounted units, and when they are gone, you can attack the stack with crossbowmen taking out archery units and then siege and melee. Even with a stack that is smaller than the enemy's, you have a decent chance of success, as no unit will defend at odds significantly better than 50% (and even that can be solved with a Catapult or two). With BEs and xbows you're basically set defensively until Gunpowder.

It also all nicely beelines together for the Khmer:
BE's come with Construction, which also gives Catapults and half-price Collosseums. Construction follows from Mathematics, which gives the Khmer UB, and Writing, which gives half-price Libraries. Machinery is a bit more off-target, although you also need Iron Working, which is a prerequisite for Compass, which gives you yet another half-price building.

And airships can spot subs, which is a really nice feature.

About Ballista Elephant: what Calouste said; more, they protect siege against flanking damage;
and siege can almost destroy everything.

I find that if you have enough siege, pikes and muskets (i use muskets heavily in BTS, very strong and versatile unit) are all that you really need to clean up in middle age wars. They are ample stack defense and can adequately clean up any siege damaged defenders. It helps to have a couple of city raider maces but after that its mostly mop up duty.

Trebuchets + musketman owns. if you win lib race.

(edit) Airships - Another under-used unit actually. Their recon is RIDICULOUSLY good, you can really plan how to take on stacks or conveniently watch activity anywhere in the world with ease. However, the 20% damage isn't bad either. There aren't many contemporary units that can damage airships (first being the quite-poor-at-it machine guns). They are excellent for taking the edge off enemy units before you attack them. Whereas a cannon or arty might have lost on attack before you now have fewer losses. Also, airship + cavalry is serviceable even against rifles.

Yeah, I love airships too. They're the perfect unit for tipping a rifle vs rifle war in your favor, especially if you're working the builder bottom area of the tech tree rather than rushing to infantry. 20% damage is as good as knocking the victim unit back a generation, rifle to the strength of a grenadier, cavalry to the strength of a cuirassier, or grenadier to the strength of a musket. They're particularly useful to damage units in scattered coastal cities, where a naval stack does the bombarding but you can't easily get collateral siege there. Finally, airships can instantly jump themselves to the combat zone, so they can be built anywhere without wasting a dozen turns in travel time.


Longbows - Longbows are actually pretty dynamic.

Another way to use longbows well is to Oracle Feudalism early and use them on offense. They'll beat defending archers if not on a hill. Best with a Protective civ, natch.

Is your offsensive into enemy territory running out of steam - he has just a few horseys but you don't have the pike to spare to garrison while you continue advance, but don't want to leave a mace either ??

You need Llandsnkets (or something spelt in a similar way) - these guys will let you garrision like they were pike or mace and are dirt cheap. Keep your offensive going without wondering what spoilers the AI are going to throw back....

Another way to use longbows well is to Oracle Feudalism early and use them on offense. They'll beat defending archers if not on a hill. Best with a Protective civ, natch.
We tried it in a SGOTM (the one with churchill) and this just doesn't work well.
swordsmen are so much better at taking cities...

Longbows can be promoted with Cover to serve as stack defense against those annoying enemy crossbows, particularly if you lack Horses/Elephants or have skipped HBR.

Airships are good at spying invasion fleets well in advance, but the micro is annoying.

Cruise missiles are excellent for swinging naval battles in your favor. Otherwise these tend to be too closely balanced, battleship vs. battleship, and hence rather costly.

Is your offsensive into enemy territory running out of steam - he has just a few horseys but you don't have the pike to spare to garrison while you continue advance, but don't want to leave a mace either ??

You need Llandsnkets (or something spelt in a similar way) - these guys will let you garrision like they were pike or mace and are dirt cheap. Keep your offensive going without wondering what spoilers the AI are going to throw back....

Better hope he doesn't have a single Xbow then ;) Landsknechts (spelling memory tip - Knecht ~= Knight) suck. They suck on offense, and they can't defend alone without an Xbow/Knight, and then you don't need that extra melee bonus anyway.

If you have random events enabled, in every game build at least 1 Airship. You can get the pretty common event of getting +1 happiness to airports.

I'd include Grenadiers in that "almost never used" category - they're not much better than muskets in a Cannon-driven war and if the enemy has Rifles chances are he has Cavalry too which will make mincemeat out of your stack ;) Haven't found a good reason to tech MilSci yet...

Explorers are damn near useless as well. For Terra-style hutpopping spies/military are usually more efficient since barbs just love to park on huts.

Lastly, I'd like to add a plus-side to Ballista Elephants - they look cool! Though it's a close match with that Carthagian-style normal jumbo for the #1 jumbo style.

wow, airships useless but grenadiers good. I never tech MilSci. it's pointless and rather expensive tech and AI loves it. The military academy is good of course but that's about it. Grenadiers are not useful. imo; perhaps for upgrading for machine guns only.
Anti-tank upgraded to mech. inf. is a very strong unit.

I love airships. They can scout for submarines if you don't upgrade them and well having airships in otherwise equal case scenario is just win.

Better hope he doesn't have a single Xbow then
The game would be boring if there wasn't a downside to everything :D

An explorer in your first Caravel is often the fastest way to circle the globe.

Longbows can be promoted with Cover to serve as stack defense against those annoying enemy crossbows, particularly if you lack Horses/Elephants or have skipped HBR.

Airships are good at spying invasion fleets well in advance, but the micro is annoying.

Cruise missiles are excellent for swinging naval battles in your favor. Otherwise these tend to be too closely balanced, battleship vs. battleship, and hence rather costly.

Naval battles are all about initiative. In stacks, battleships do pretty well due to collateral, you only risk the first 1-3. If both sides have missiles, fighters/carriers, etc then it is STILL about initiative - the side that has these will use them first and then the ships themselves will be disadvantaged.

As a result, recon is very important for pitched naval battles, which are virtually non-existent in single player. At least it lets you sink an enemy stack before it lands.

I'd include Grenadiers in that "almost never used" category - they're not much better than muskets in a Cannon-driven war and if the enemy has Rifles chances are he has Cavalry too which will make mincemeat out of your stack Haven't found a good reason to tech MilSci yet...

Military academies and ships of the line. The blitz promo is OK too. Still probably something I'd steal/trade for rather than heading specifically towards it.

The AIs, especially the peaceful ones, don't prioritize it so you might get something for it in trade.

As for the grenadiers, I'm inclined to agree with you. IMO their best use is that they can upgrade into high-CG machine guns, which some people actually use unlike me.

Another tip for Airships; Seafood defense. I've been through a number of wars where I had no navy to speak of and the AI had frigates. Drop a few grenades on those guys with your airship and they will turn around pretty quick without pillaging. AI doesn't like to risk his damaged ships.

OMG I almost always beeline grenadiers if I've started a macemen/catapult war. You can get here much much faster than rifles and upgrade all those CR3 macemen to grenadiers and you get your next civ killed for free without using siege (they are a gunpowder unit so we're talking 84%+ vs non PRO longbows) then siege/grenadiers vs rifles for your next kill and you only stop when cavalry comes out.

If I can Oracle->CS with a good HE capital I usually end up doing the above.

EDIT - I did this in my first immortal game as France, but made so many mistakes due to being on immortal I stopped playing early. Perhaps I'll go back, should go quick: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327047

Anti Tank - I seem to be one of the few people who like them. They can get AA promos (the first unit that does it decently IMO), and more importantly they take care of the only unit that can cost effectively beat infantry in the field until advanced flight, robotics, or computers + composites. They are stack defense, and can be used to clean up units damaged by arty. Speaking of arty, the same tech unlocks both of these...
Also a good side step, upgrade favoured units to anti-tank the turn before you get motorised infantry; that way they get a free promotion.

Grashopa, you could just tech. steel instead of military sci. way more expensive indeed but cannons w/ anything (muskets) wipes the floor of medieval stuff. It's way more expensive but at least does something. Assuming you by that time you can squeeze 250 beakers/turn, it should take like 5 turns more.

Military tradition is just as expensive (like military sci) and allows way better troops.

Tactical Nuke - Gift these to weak sucker AIs to just murder the strong warmonger at no diplo penalty.

Tips like this are exactly why I love this forum.

What about them Horse Archers? Am I missing something?

I always skip teching for them and rarely build more than a few of them based on the following:

1. They're the most expensive unit in their era
2. Horseback Riding is relatively expensive to tech and doesn't lead anywhere until guilds (unless you have elephants, in which case I'll trade for it in time for construction)
3. Chariots are better vs. axes, HA still loses out against spears. Granted they can (almost) hold their own against swords but aren't too great against archers in cities compared to either (the cheaper) swords or axes.
4. They're fast and useful for pillaging but so are chariots
5. Catapults are seldom left alone, so that bonus against rarely comes into play, granted you'll deal collatoral to catapults but you'll need to live to do that, which you might do with flanking - still find them too expensive for such a niche use.

1. They're the most expensive unit in their era

The can come w/ 5 xp and that means flanking 2 or combat 2.

2. Horseback Riding is relatively expensive to tech and doesn't lead anywhere until guilds (unless you have elephants, in which case I'll trade for it in time for construction)

It trades very well, though.

3. Chariots are better vs. axes, HA still loses out against spears. Granted they can (almost) hold their own against swords but aren't too great against archers in cities compared to either (the cheaper) swords or axes.
4. They're fast and useful for pillaging but so are chariots

That's entire false, very false. W/ flanking 2 you get 50% retreat from combat. That alone is very, very good. They will damage the top defender since immunity to 1st strikes. Morealso they are fast and mobile, they can pillage just when you declare. The main aspect is to the AI cannot relocate/whip anything since you can just dance the heavily defended city (if any). After you pillage the metal, it's just easy. Keep building reinforcements which dont need escorts and move quick to the front lines.


5. Catapults are seldom left alone, so that bonus against rarely comes into play, granted you'll deal collatoral to catapults but you'll need to live to do that, which you might do with flanking - still find them too expensive for such a niche use.

Flanking is great, I mean extremely great. W/ flanking 2 promos you ensure the catapults die in the stack w/o even touching them. In the field C2/shock horse archers have ok odds vs C1 spears. Flanking allows to defend while your cities get bombarded.

On a side note, past flanking 2 the units get very food xp for surviving at low odds. (Edit) if you get the horse shoe event they are just broken

Overall horse archers are a great tool that work decently till deity (immortal including).

The Musketman is a unit I always "want" to be effective but tend not to have much success with. They're easily reachable through the path towards liberalism and can be drafted when Nationhood is taken as the Lib tech. It's easy to amass them in great numbers, but they still rarely perform well enough to allow easy warring against civs protected by longbows and (god forbid) castles. On Emperor level I like to fight musketman wars while I tech towards Rifling. On Immortal, this strategy tends to fail.

I found a simple way to use navy SEALs affectivley.

First, you must have a barracks in the city and run on theocracy with a state religion.
Promote your SEAL to drill I and drill II. This will allow you to have an advantige over enemy marines and infantry. Next, when enough XP is gained, promote your SEALs up to the top of the "Drill Chain" as I like to call it. Now, if they have just enough XP, try to get to Woodsman III. Providing both forest and jungle attack, and 2 extra first strikes.

Just try it, it works.

The problem with musketmen isn't the unit itself, but rather gunpowder. If gunpowder also yielded a siege unit too it would be worth taking. As it is, focusing on Liberalism and the Democracy path is more attractive. And at that point, making it to Rifling and Steel looks more attractive.

Promote your SEAL to drill I and drill II. This will allow you to have an advantige over enemy marines and infantry. Next, when enough XP is gained, promote your SEALs up to the top of the "Drill Chain" as I like to call it. Now, if they have just enough XP, try to get to Woodsman III. Providing both forest and jungle attack, and 2 extra first strikes.

You mean - you still have forests left on your map that late in the game ?? and jungles ???

What about them Horse Archers? Am I missing something?

I always skip teching for them and rarely build more than a few of them based on the following:

1. They're the most expensive unit in their era
2. Horseback Riding is relatively expensive to tech and doesn't lead anywhere until guilds (unless you have elephants, in which case I'll trade for it in time for construction)
3. Chariots are better vs. axes, HA still loses out against spears. Granted they can (almost) hold their own against swords but aren't too great against archers in cities compared to either (the cheaper) swords or axes.
4. They're fast and useful for pillaging but so are chariots
5. Catapults are seldom left alone, so that bonus against rarely comes into play, granted you'll deal collatoral to catapults but you'll need to live to do that, which you might do with flanking - still find them too expensive for such a niche use.

1. This is technically wrong, since they are considered classical units, as are elephants and catapults (the latter ties them in hammers).
2. HBR is a good trade chip and unlocks one of the more dominating units in the game.
3. "Almost hold their own vs swords"? What? How often does a sword beat a shock HA again?

By the way, when the defender has > 120% net defensive bonuses (like, say, an archer with 50% inherent, 20% CG, 40% culture D, and 25% fortification for example), combat beats out city raider. Horse Archers get combat II and inherent withdraw chances, or can go flanking to have a guaranteed 50% survival. Oh yeah, they ignore the archer's first strike, too. They own the hell out of axes for this and are generally better than swords. They're more expensive, but you get more.

4. They're fast and useful for capturing multiple cities quickly. Before the AI can build more units. If you can't take into account the 30% or more additional units 1 move troops face, your analysis fails instantly.

5. Niche role? Against spears in flatlands they have > 50% survival and an extremely high chance to damage the spear to the point that another HA could kill it. Any non-spear unit in the stack is at a disadvantage...and a considerable one due to basic retreat in addition to the extra promo...to a shock HA. Unless the stack is very spear heavy horse archers will screw it over.

I've completely dominated and killed multiple civs using horse archers exclusively on every difficulty but deity, and I've seen better players pull off HA attacks there. The 2 moves are *very* important, since you fight a lot fewer troops total that way. In addition to that, a horse archer is more COST EFFECTIVE than a catapult when attacking cities with only a few defenders, comes sooner, hits harder, and moves faster. Only a strong concentration of spears can hold up, and the AI doesn't do that effectively.

If I'm playing below immortal it just gets stupid...I can almost end the game with them outright if most of the AIs are on my landmass. At least on immortal I tend to stop and tech after killing an AI or two (sometimes 3...).

The Musketman isn't much of anything if you have iron. If you don't have iron, and knights are around, gunpowder fast and hopefully you are Aggresive and can pump out c2 formation muskets with barracks and theo or vassalage to stop the knights. That, or get to Military Tradition faster for Cuirassers.

I actually think the main problem with Muskets is the fact they aren't any more effective than catapults when suicided into stacks. So you draft them at half the cost they would otherwise be (draft = about 1/2 whip cost), but get something less than 1/2 their hammer cost. In any case, you're not gaining much ground.

I actually think the main problem with Muskets is the fact they aren't any more effective than catapults when suicided into stacks. So you draft them at half the cost they would otherwise be (draft = about 1/2 whip cost), but get something less than 1/2 their hammer cost. In any case, you're not gaining much ground.

Musketmen are more effective for attacking stacks when you play as the Celts. Thanks to the Dun you can pump out Guerilla III (50% withdrawal) Musketmen as your stock units.

The main advantage Musketmen have over medieval units is that they don't have a hard counter and can serve as both attackers and stack defenders at the same time.

Muskets are pretty crappy by themselves (oromos and janisarry with a tech lead are different...). There are 2 things that are pretty solid about muskets however:

1. They are pretty solid field stack D. In forests or hills they'll beat anything contemporary, especially with guerrilla II or woodsman II. They hold cities pretty well too if you go CG to leave them behind.
2. They are an easy draft, so you can focus more of your REAL hammers on cannons, which are going to be what actually does the attacking legwork.

Musket/cannon is very strong (anything/cannon is very strong but muskets are easy to come by) and will be close to unstoppable until the AI gets rifling. If the AI doesn't have horse, it'll be pretty good even then. Cuirassers are a minor problem so vs them you'll want a couple pikes or to kill their stack ASAP in your territory than move in on defensive terrain.

Good call about defense...
Think about it, muskets were always fielded with something else even when deployed, artillery, cavalry if lucky.

bestsss - The problem is how are you getting your muskets? Draft? Now you add on another 25? turns to get liberalism - nationalism. Plus 5 turns to cannons. But how many more turns do you need to build the cannons when you can upgrade your whole macemen army that turn you hit grenadiers and take out the next civ with on average only 20% casualties. CR3 infantry after that?

And I'm still popping out CR3 macemen and upgrading them to grenadiers since they aren't obsolete until rifles. That means with just an HE capital putting out troops I'm going to have more than enough even to take out the civ that gets rifles before the conquest is over.

I'm flipping through the Immortal U games thanks to IT organizing them. I'll play one at deity (1 settler) that I think this strategy can be effective on.