Part I: Maharaja Gupta (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8492911&postcount=25)
Part II: Ghatotchaka Gupta (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8496659&postcount=33)
Part III: Samudra Gupta (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8501149&postcount=38)


Welcome to my next Role Play Challenge, The Next Generation. These games are meant to be educational and fun, and the next generation series focuses on new leaders outside the classic 52 of CIV!

After the Mongol bloodbath of the Earth-Map RPC, I decided it's time to relax and smell the flowers a bit.

Here we have Maharaja Sri-Gupta, the supposed founder of the Classical Indian Empire, at least according to Chinese records (hence part of our choices here!). Not many appreciate what greatness came from this time of history, the Guptta's have given us many great things in civilization both Culturally and Scientifically

The concept of Zero
Postulated that the earth orbits around the sun
A base 10 numerical system
The game of Chess
The highpoint of Sankreit Literature
The spread of Hindu and Buddhist religions
And of course, the Kama Sutra :mischief:

A very productive empire that get's little respect from Civilization IV, something that just bridges Ashoka and Gandhi. But here I plan to give it proper respect!

Game settings:

Hemispheres standard map
Epic Speed
Emperor difficulty
Random leaders

Rules:

1) We can only win via culture.

2) We CANNOT ever use the culture slider. The Guptas were magnificent scientists so we have to always continue down the path of gold and science on the slider.

3) The Gupta's reign was very productive and the Godlen Age of India, so no unhappy citizans are allowed. In fact, we cannot adopt civics that lead potentially to unhappiness such as slavery (the whip) or nationhood (the draft). State Property is forbidden as it limits the creativity of it's citizans.

4) The gupta's were efficient warriors, thus we can deal with war anyway we see fit, including starting them! Another reason I chose the Civilization they are from.

5) For atmosphere and a little extra class, we shall promote the stereotypical Hindu practice of Vegetarianism! Thus we can never build any pastures, nor can we trade for cow/sheep/pig/horse. The Gupta's did not rely too much on horses anyway, so no mounted units for us. The exception are war Elephants (which seam proper here), and we can definitely make camps for Ivory and fur but not deer, and we can work the sea as much as we want.

Our Leader

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/Guptastart0003.jpg

We chose Ramesses as Spiritual fit the Gupta's very well for their devotion to Hinduism and Buddhism. Industrious becase we want to build alot of shinet wonders!

We chose China because the UB fit's very well here and the Gupta's were noted for steel Bows, thus the CHinese Cho-nuk fits here too!

Finally, Maharaja Sri-Gupta was described first by Chinese travelers, so there is alot tying these together. More so than fast workers and Mausoleums.

Given our restrictions and emperor difficulty I rerolled a bit until I got a workable in-land start that had access to elephants.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/Guptastart0006.jpg

Very intersting start, certainly not pristine since the cows are useless and makes up for the rerolls.

So how do we start here???

That is an impressive list of restrictions. I thought culture with no slider was bad enough, but vegetarianism? Best of luck!

Well farming and mining seem like good starting techs as there's 11 farmable or minable tiles visible already. :) Settle in place seems OK, plus as ever you might lose a hidden resource.

Speaking of which there's a small gamble here about which tiles to farm first and not accidentally do it on top of copper/iron :confused: Anyone know any tricks to improve the odds there? Research BW first is one way I guess, especially as you have enough worker techs for the moment. Otherwise the wheel?

I think I'd settle before moving the warrior, then choose a scouting direction based on anything revealed to the East. Edit: no, warrior move SW might find grains settlable on turn 1, that has to be best.

Incidentally are we allowed to settle on top of livestock? It would be the only way to get their health bonus if no pastures are allowed. Having animals roaming the city streets perhaps isn't good for public health though. Also if we can get the healths this way it kind of makes the restriction about not trading for them meaningless.

It is a good question. What the heck are you going to do with the animal tiles? Mine the pigs? Cottage the cows? Windmill the sheep? I guess it all depends, right?

One could always make forts on animals to get the resources, though I think that goes against the spirit of the rule as well (after all a fort is just a big and fancy pasture!). Though it could also be argued that working an animal tile which gives +1 food (all except horsie) is not in the spirit of vegetarianism.

I'd say no settling on top, and no forts, but working those tiles and improving with non-pastures is ok.

No forts or settling on livestock. WE mean to avoid the health benefit of the animals.

Yes to working the tile (cow manure helps grow food, right???)

Improvements need to ne seen later.

Sounds interesting. Even though you're going culture, sounds like it will end as a late culture win. I'd say settling on the river 1S or 1 SE makes sense. Should be a good bureaucracy cap.

I anticipate a lot of specialists in this one, fueled by the Sistine chapel, no doubt. You'll be wanting the Oracle->MC->GE->pyramids formula, methinks; although with an industrious leader bulding the 'mids the old fashioned way shouldn't be too painful.

Once you get a few early wonders thay can tend to snowball if you start popping GEs (as happened in my MS^ Sitting Bull game recently, which was a culture game) and then you can really start to hoard the wonders quite nicely. With no culture slider it promises to be a long game.

I'd probably settle 1S to get as many hills as possible and the river, although food is going to be a problem now that cows are off the menu. Can you still milk 'em or are you a vegan? :p

vote 1NW for extra spices and elephant

I'm shadowing this.

I don't like the useless (and otherwise not great food) tile in the BFC. Since we're gunning epic the opportunity cost of moving is reduced also.

Unless I see something amazing probably settle turns 3-4 with a grain or even seafood (after all, wonders are allowed, we're IND, and can *really* abuse GLH + Colossus).

Better make some tofu or find some fish soon or your people will suffer from protein deprivation! :(

Why not allow horse pastures? I don't see the ethical difference between camping elephants and pasturing horses. The only reason that the historical Guptas may not have used horses much is the availability issue, right?

Anyways, yeah, the Michaelangelo's shiny chapel seems very high on the priority here. Where's that marble?

Better make some tofu or find some fish soon or your people will suffer from protein deprivation! :(

Why not allow horse pastures? I don't see the ethical difference between camping elephants and pasturing horses. The only reason that the historical Guptas may not have used horses much is the availability issue, right?

Anyways, yeah, the Michaelangelo's shiny chapel seems very high on the priority here. Where's that marble?

Instead of sistine, one could always go mass conquest (stop short of military win) + corps + cathedrals + mass media wonders. Of course, capturing sistine isn't out of the question either!

I have no sensible advice to offer, but only the observation that you are truly living up to your epithet. This should be fascinating, and I will be lurking with great interest.

Move the warrior NW. See what it uncovers. Might be worth settling 2NW or 1NW, 1N.

I find slavery the only real limiting factor.
If there is stone the game should not be very difficult.
If I plan to shadow that it will be: expand, kill a couple of neighbors w/ cannon/rifle or treb/mace/spies or jumbo/pults/spies . Head for sushi/creative construction (+- jewelers) done.

I find slavery the only real limiting factor.
If there is stone the game should not be very difficult.
If I plan to shadow that it will be: expand, kill a couple of neighbors w/ cannon/rifle or treb/mace/spies or jumbo/pults/spies . Head for sushi/creative construction (+- jewelers) done.

Keep in mind he said we can only use science/gold slider, not espionage. Technically speaking, we can still get EP from specs and from the buildings themselves, but it's a bit more limited.

Gwall settled spies could go a long way if needed though, and we already know we have ivory.

Since artist specialists are allowed I'm envisioning what I mentioned earlier with corps + multipliers and then just a ton of bio artists (conveniently on the way to sushi).

I hate micro and I don't feel like gunning for sistine. That means for me this is probably going to be a "beat them down until your pathetic culture gradually makes it" type of game. Even 300 culture/turn will win eventually :lol:.

I didn't plan on the slider at all. Great spies should do the trick.

Generally it will be hard to get the 1st war going unless some extra lucky to obtain the 1st 10xp unit (barbs w/ fortified archer? huh archer) and open the heroic epic; since no slavery the 1st army can be chopped only (not cool b/c chops will go for great wall + mids, i think).

No cows or horses seems to be a bit counter intuitive with regards to the Gupta, as (IIRC) milk was important, and they used armoured cavalry (and elephants).

But good luck with those restrictions, tough start.

No cows or horses seems to be a bit counter intuitive with regards to the Gupta, as (IIRC) milk was important, and they used armoured cavalry (and elephants).

But good luck with those restrictions, tough start.

I strongly feel he should take advantage of epic game speed to move.

I strongly feel he should take advantage of epic game speed to move.

Indeed. With those restrictions, I'd even use the settler as an early scout. Move the warrior west, and the settler 1S1E (or north, as 2N seems to be the best settling position ATM)

Indeed. With those restrictions, I'd even use the settler as an early scout. Move the warrior west, and the settler 1S1E (or north, as 2N seems to be the best settling position ATM)

It would be tremendously entertaining if the settler went off scouting and a panther came bounding out of the mist and ate him. :D

It would be tremendously entertaining if the settler went off scouting and a panther came bounding out of the mist and ate him. :D

You have 5 hard-coded turns before animals appear no matter what, but if you don't settle it might be more.

You have 5 hard-coded turns before animals appear no matter what, but if you don't settle it might be more.

Rats. :(

Maharaja Gupta: The Quest for a Beginning!

The Maharaja looks at his happy go lucky people and decides at this point they need a new start! He knows he cannot lead them forever, but as the fundamental concept of his people is rebirth, he knows his spirit will be reborn into the next leader. Yes, the Indian people need stability and home so they can start creating wonder things!

But where do he considers??? The Indians are strict vegetarians and while some may consider harvesting the noble cattle for food, he knows better. They must be respected because all animals on the earth are one with the true one! So he considers the far off voices he vaguely hears, not knowing who or what they are, but putting his trust in them. "Maharaja, do not be hasty, explore a bit..."

And so the Maharaja does this

He sends the warrior northwest while onto the eastern hill.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20000.jpg

Ah, the nobel large beasts have been put here for a purpose, to share the work with the Indian people, and yet to donate the ivory of their deceased ones to delight and inspire the Indian artists. But still we cannot eat these noble beasts and perhaps we should look just a little more.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20001.jpg

Our warrior finds many more of these noble elephants to the north, good we shall settle there eventually to do them proper homage. Meanwhile our further exploration has shown little additional food for the Indian people. At the same time we meet a very crude and rather vane leader from the Native AMerican people

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20002.jpg

We great him kindly, compliment him on his distinguished proboscus, and send him on his way making a note to show a little caution towards the northern area where he came from.

But more urgent matters is where to settle. We decide to live amongst our noble Elephant friends and settle in their midst, gaining extra production due to their immense strength.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20003.jpg

As you can see our warrior was particularly productive getting us 45 gold and some nice views of the landscape. And while we researched Bronze working right away, as you can see we have none of this shiney metal in our area.

Very disappointing considering we met the next leader, Alexander of the Zulu.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20004.jpg

A very aggressive individual, so I told him NOT to mention anything about the Native Americans large Nose. Better to get Native America and the Zulu to dislike each other rather than us.

In light of this wonderful discovery of no copper and 2 agressive eladers we opted to research next

Mysticism/hunting/archery/masonry/wheel.

Yes I think we want archery sooner than later, but we still want access to some great Wonders for our people.

After a few warriors, our Indian workers got to building

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20005.jpg

Excellent! Much culture will spread to our cities because of this. We built a few warriors and an archer then started the next wonder

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20006.jpg

To protect his people from barbarians.

At this point the Maharaja is getting old and decides to lay down for the final time, entrusting the Indian people to the next Gupta to lead them.

The Indian people do not mourn, but look in joy for the next Gupta

The capital of Pataliputra is ready to explot the basics of the land in farms and mines.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20007.jpg

Meanwhile the Maharaja's councilers have sent wwarriors out to help map where the next cities shall be

First the land

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20008.jpg

Before he passed on The Maharaja reminded his people the Native Americans and Zulu both came from the north

Thus

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaA20009.jpg

2 well placed northern cities should secure all of our Elephant bretherin as well as block off our rivals from the southern lands. We can then establish as many cities as we shall need there.

But for now there is much to discuss as the birth of the next Gupta leader. WE have 2 Great Wonders in our capital, but we need to expand and establish a strong military, surely the next Gupta shall be able to accomplish this, before the rivals excroach on out lands.

Believe it or not, I settled 1 E of that coastal corn. It'll be interesting to see the variance that causes.

2000 years! That's a good run for the Maharaja! That said, I'm pretty impressed/scared by your lack of expansion. You have two Wonders, but only one city? I'm getting flashbacks of Asoka in the current KotW! I can't wait to see how this turns out!

I threw this one in, it tried my patience more than my skill, which isn't fun:



As I mentioned earlier, went 1E of corn. Got SH, Gwall, Oracle, Colossus. I blocked off enough room for double digit cities...

And De Gaulle of native america settled ~ 14 anyway. Alexgaynder got about the same.

What? I HATE playing high difficulty maps where the AIs get 30498657309486730948753094876304987 tiles to expand into, but that wasn't even the worst part.

With colossus I'm expanding ok and since the land is blocked off, it's serviceable. No slavery is a bummer on this map but liveable with caste workshops as needed. Alex founds hindu, I adopt hindu, De gaulle adopts judaism. De Gaulle is cautious towards us both, but alex is pleased towards a heathen because he's retarded and butt secks the hidden modifiers.

So, since some of their issues were trades, I embargo'd ge gaulle by bribing alex. Still cautious.

Then I get a random event. Oh! A different religious wedding!

Instant DoW.

I could have held him off easily, but why the slog? Why does he have 14 cities and some wonders at 300 AD on emperor when I've BLOCKED him? I do still play this game for fun and this one with all the silly rules just doesn't deserve this start and crapvents.



I doubt I'll replay this, but I'm going to say right now that I'm not going to play a single forum or multiplayer game that leaves the putrid garbage that is random events on for a long, long, LONG time.

I doubt I'll replay this, but I'm going to say right now that I'm not going to play a single forum or multiplayer game that leaves the putrid garbage that is random events on for a long, long, LONG time.

Honestly, instead of whining about it in every freaking thread that involves a forum game with random events (or threads about random events), follow your own guide and add in that option. The OPs come with 4000 BC posts.

Or hell, do one better to prevent exertion of those awful 30 seconds per game: Go into your BTS/Assets/XML/Events/Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml file, then do this:

Hit Ctrl-F to Open the Find Window;
Type "</iWeight>";
Replace the iWeight with 0.
Repeat.

From then on, even if Random Events are turned on, it won't matter. Holy crap! :rolleyes:

Excuse me, but did Aristarchus of Samos not identify the world as orbiting around the sun first?

Honestly, instead of whining about it in every freaking thread that involves a forum game with random events (or threads about random events), follow your own guide and add in that option. The OPs come with 4000 BC posts.

Or hell, do one better to prevent exertion of those awful 30 seconds per game: Go into your BTS/Assets/XML/Events/Civ4EventTriggerInfos.xml file, then do this:

Hit Ctrl-F to Open the Find Window;
Type "</iWeight>";
Replace the iWeight with 0.
Repeat.

From then on, even if Random Events are turned on, it won't matter. Holy crap! :rolleyes:

Good call. I'll take your advice, although when you give this advice to most players you should probably tell them to put it in CUSTOM assets so it doesn't screw MP ;).

But I made such a mistake a long time ago when tweaking AIs (I made a truly hellish AI based on the XML, not sure it's beatable on high levels) so I'll not make it again regardless.

Excuse me, but did Aristarchus of Samos not identify the world as orbiting around the sun first?

Perhaps, but the Gupta empire scientists also came up with the idea and as I can read independently, if later on!

Ghatotkacha Gupta: Indian Expansion

Ghatoychaka slowly opens his eyes, not literally, but upon the spirit of the Gupta Kings filling his body! "Yes, it is my turn to continue the Gupta legacy", but Ghatotkacha is a different man from the founder Maharaja. "One city, that is not enough! The Maharaja planned out many cities but became distracted with the circle of stones, and has tried to keep enemies out with the Great Wall. "Perhaps for the barbarians, but NOT our enemies" Ghatotkacha mutters to himself.

"People of India! It is time to move on! Time to expand our lands and time to work to defend ourselves! It is time for the next step in Indian glory!" The happy peasents cheer his words, and plans for new settlements begin

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0000.jpg

Time to claim as many of our friends the elephants as we can, hopefully we can keep them to ourselves, but that remains to be seen. Still even one source can provide much power to our armies. And with the circle of Stone Wonder, we can quickly expnad our borders to keep the "others" to the north.

Meanwhile, St. Patrick has been born

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0001.jpg

Odd indeed as we have no religion yet, but Alexander is the founder of Hinduism. Let us hope some other religions pop up here! (Confiscianism has already been founded!). But St. Patrick was settled in our capital, providing much needed gold and extra hammers for future wonders.

Ghatotkacha's techpath was very spread out, first looking for the economy with Pottery/writing, then Iron Working for defense, the fishing/sailing for trade, and Aesthetics/Polytheism/start Literature for more wonder building!

But first thing, Ghatotkacha decides to complete the block of the northern threat

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0002.jpg

We eventually opened borders however there is a concern of settlements behind our border cities so that may change eventually, but that is for the next Gupta to be concerned with.

The most important thing, is how can we defend ourselves???

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0003.jpg

Ghatotchacke smiles in satisfaction. "Good, good. We shall lock the vital resource up quickly."

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0004.jpg

At this time things became a little concerning with our 2 neighbors, both who are Hindu yet we have no religion yet! A rude demand is made

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0005.jpg

Which the Gupta king agrees to in hopes of better diplomatic ties. Still the power numbers are against us and we need to start building an army. However, Ghatotkacha has established an excellent start to increased military but nothing yet! In addition, libraries were built in the new cities before Barracks, a gamble perhaps but Indian culture MUST be stablished veru early.

And just because of Indian expansion and military prep does not mean Ghatotchaka has given up on wonders

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0006.jpg

We stopped here, as Chatotkacka's days have finished and the Indian people await the next Gupta King to lead them.

The empire

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaB0007.jpg

I think teh Indians need at least one more city VERY soon near the western corn as there is a Zulu Impi there from Alexander and he already has "We have enough on our hands". DeGaulle has alot of land to the north, and so far I have yet to find the Greek Zulu. But next order is another city and lot's of military. After that we need the Parthenon and perhaps some of the Literature wonders.

After Literature, where do we go???

Alphabet/Currency for the economy??

Math/construction/HBR for war elephants/catapults???

Drama/Music for the free Great Artist and the UB????

Confiscianismmust be quite a religion :p

From what I can see in your screenies Alex got hands full between 1175 and 185 BC ( turn 161 ). Do you have any idea if it can be anyone else his target? You weren't his worst enemy in t161 in spite of him being cautious with you, so there is a chance he is after someone else. The bad news is that Alex has no problems in planning a war while cautious, so you are not safe :p

Excuse me, but did Aristarchus of Samos not identify the world as orbiting around the sun first?

He did. And his contemps Eratosthenes of Kyrene first calculated earth's circumferential (in Alexandria), thus proving the spherical form of Earth.
And he did a really excellent job.
But that's as far as we know about history. And we know nothing about history ;)

From what I can see in your screenies Alex got hands full between 1175 and 185 BC ( turn 161 ). Do you have any idea if it can be anyone else his target? You weren't his worst enemy in t161 in spite of him being cautious with you, so there is a chance he is after someone else. The bad news is that Alex has no problems in planning a war while cautious, so you are not safe :p

From what I have seen, there is alot of land to the west inhabited by Barbarians. My concern at the moment is that Al may be south of them and thus a short galley trip to our shores. It certainly is possible he's aiming for another leader, however we ere slow to military and thus we may have been a rather easy target when he started.

I think axes aplenty from those Delhi and Bombay.

must be quite a religion :p

From what I can see in your screenies Alex got hands full between 1175 and 185 BC ( turn 161 ). Do you have any idea if it can be anyone else his target? You weren't his worst enemy in t161 in spite of him being cautious with you, so there is a chance he is after someone else. The bad news is that Alex has no problems in planning a war while cautious, so you are not safe :p

On top of this, hidden modifiers seem to cozy him up with de gaulle (in my game they were pleased from outset, and since it isn't a WB game that's probably true here too).

Samudra Gupta: Great wonders and Missed Opportunities

Samudra Gupta walks quickly from his bedroon window to look upon his people after the gentle of the previous Gupta.

"My people, it is time for construction of many Great wonders here, and time to further our knowledge by trading with our new friends!"

The captial changed to build a settler and take that western corn location before the stationed Zulu get any ideas of sending a settler there. And very quickly the next GP arrives.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20000.jpg

Well, we were hoping for a Great Artist, but we take him and settle him into our capital.

Samudra instructs his scientific leaders to learn their letters so the Indian people can pass that information along to future generations and perhaps make some good trades. Meanwhile we start building the Great Library and Parthenon in two separate cities.

After alphabet we find

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20001.jpg

Excellent, Math is just what we need to start on Music

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20002.jpg

Samudra decides to keep the knowledge of letters to the Indian people alone for now, to prevent Alexander and DeGaulle from trading with each other, and perhaps something better can be gotten.

However, Alexander and DeGaulle have stronge ties amongst each other due to a shared religion and we grow concerned about that. Samudra is much relieved when

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20003.jpg

Of course we convert to Hinduism generating a strong religious lovefest.

After alphabet we started researching Music and then Drama. We also found something rather to our liking on the tech trade market.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20004.jpg

And in Delhi, on the border with the Native Americans

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20005.jpg

Adding a little culture pressure and giving us a start on our third culture city.

The third I believe is going to be Bombey and we are working on the Maori there at the save.

We managed one more city to the south

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20006.jpg

And I think the next Gupta needs to fill out the remaining south, or at least 3 more cities.

Soon another Great Wonder is added to the capital

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20007.jpg

Unfortunately we got a few disappointing notifications. We lost the race to Music and the Sistene Chapel was rushed built by another nation using a GE. This Gupta culture game is going rather slowly here and I am considering altering the rules about the slider, but we shall see. Anyway, Corporations are looking ALOT more important right about now, especially with ONE religion on this continent right now!.

We continued making some additional trades

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20009.jpg

And after Drama, our tech options are

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20010.jpg

At which point the Samudra Gupta threw up his hands at missing religion and decided to retired to let the next Gupta fix this mess!

But no without a few additional tech trades

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20011.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20012.jpg

If you have not noticed I decided against even research Animal Husbandry, not taking it in a trade. It costs us war elephants but I think we need not worry about that as Alexander or DeGaulle could flatten us a a minute notice (Samudra has been a terribly risky Gupta here).

Final shots are the cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20013.jpg

And techs

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Gupta/GuptaC20014.jpg

So the question is what techs do we hit next???? I am thinking we are way too overexposed militarily right now and Fuedalism may be a wise choice using vassalage for CG II Longbows. At least before Code of Laws (6 cities does not scream for courthouses yet although Caste is preferable.) We definitely could use a militaristic Gupta about now, at least for defensive purposes.

After that, I think the classic Liberalism beeline is in order.

Thoughts???

I had thought that the Corporation strategy was a given, with no Culture slider. It's gonna be a tough road, and missing out on the Sistine Chapel will definitely hurt. Then again, maybe it's just the excuse you need to poke your head around the map and maybe lay waste to a nation or two. After all, you're not the Pacifist Gandhi for a reason, right? Just because you didn't build it doesn't mean it can't be yours :)

Definitely go Feudalism for defense, archers just won't do. Sharing the same religion helps, but only to a point.

I am at a point in this game where things are just proceedingly dead and boringly slow here. I think perhaps I setup too severe restrictions for an emperor game and was too eager for a peace-monger game fater the Brutality of the earth-map game.

My preference is to reboot the Gupta game with some different emphasis and rules as this game has pretty much stagnated (I believe TMIT became somewhat disgusted also).

SO I am planning to restart the game using Gandhi of China, as the Philosophical trait works better with my idea of the Guptas and my newer goals. Basically I want a little more flexibility.

Potential new rules

1) Vegetarianism. We cannot research Animal Husbandry.
2) Every citizan is sacred, no slavery or draft (although nationhood is OK for happiness and espionage).
3) We must win peacefully, either by culture/space/Diplomacy.
4) Slider is open to use anyway we see fit

This gives me a better chance to play up the Gupta's as excelling in Science as well as Culture, and play the map better.

What do you all think???

>>1) Vegetarianism. We cannot research Animal Husbandry.
nor trade/steal.
>>2) Every citizan is sacred, no slavery or draft (although nationhood is OK for happiness and espionage).
This is the only hard part, I very rarely draft anyways. No state property is fine as well.

I'd put hard limit to no diplo wins either. They suck no matter what.

1) Vegetarianism. We cannot research Animal Husbandry.
What do you all think???

This rule still doesn't make any sense. Animal Husbandry does not equal eating animals. It is knowing how to take care of animals - feeding and breeding, basically.

India had horse units and elephant units. Without AH you can't get either.

A better vegetarianism rule is just that you can't build improvements on animal resources that would provide additional food due to the improvement. That rules out pretty much all of them except horses (elephants come from camps, which you can do without AH anyway). So you can get AH, which leads to HR so you can build horse units and war elephants (one you also get Construction).

Also, most Indians were (and still are) not vegetarian. But that isn't necessarily relevant - do vegetarianism if you want.

This rule still doesn't make any sense. Animal Husbandry does not equal eating animals. It is knowing how to take care of animals - feeding and breeding, basically.

India had horse units and elephant units. Without AH you can't get either.

A better vegetarianism rule is just that you can't build improvements on animal resources that would provide additional food due to the improvement. That rules out pretty much all of them except horses (elephants come from camps, which you can do without AH anyway). So you can get AH, which leads to HR so you can build horse units and war elephants (one you also get Construction).

Also, most Indians were (and still are) not vegetarian. But that isn't necessarily relevant - do vegetarianism if you want.

Not sure about horses, I still like the idea of playing a game without them, the Indian people do not unduly treat animals. With that said I may also consider NOT improving elephants or beaver although this is much tougher I think. Still, the Gupta's did use horse units and it is an RPC, so perhaps horses are OK. Still time to think that one over.

@Bestsss, I though no Diplo also but I decided against harder limits on victory conditions for this game as that got me into the problem in this game. Still I envision the Gupta's going to space or Culture and will likely play in that direction.

Hell, do whatever you want! It's not like you're not Gandhi of China or anything. Historical accuracy is only as useful here as it's fun. Personally, I'd go for animal husbandry but not improving certain animal resources as you feel right or wrong. I'd either improve horses in addition to elephants or leave out jumbos as well. Historical accuracy or not, I don't see any internal consistency in condoning elephant camping over horse pasturing.

You could also worldbuilder-pad yourself the Indian colors and/or flag, just to hide your inner chineseness.

On a side note: with the present conditions if you dont have some livestock in the capital city it's doable OCC space race.
But again winning cultural victory w/ cottages and the slider will be so damn boring... even if you go for the late game wonders.

@ Bestsss: I think that is what happened, the game got so damned boring for me to play and I think the Gupta's deserve a little better.

@ Rubbaduck: Yeah, I think I will play around in Photoshop to get a better flag, something from the Gupta's era.

@ BarrageQueen: I get the point on the China thing. Since I plan on not forcing a culture win, I think I can open myself up to a different civilization. Hell, Gandhi of India may just be fine now the more I think of it. Consider Gandhi the LAST in a series of Gupta leaders.

I will post a new game tonight as there is no real outrage over stopping this current game. It is an RPC though so I like tougher rules, even if victory is tough as long as the game plays out well I am satisfied.

Final rules

1) No Animal Husbandry which can too easily lead to carnivorism. Thus no horses or War Elephants which abuse our fine friends the animals. Camps for Beaver and Elephants are fine as these resources can conceivably be harvested once the animal is dead. Working anything from the sea is fine as whales and fish have no soul! Work with me here folks!

2) Any peaceful victory is fine, although Space and culture are favored as they fit in with the Godlen Age of the Guptas. We can war as we see fit, but generally I am not interested in controlling 60% of the population with 40% land to cruise to a space win. Say enough warring to get a decent sized empire, rely on diplomacy, defeat threatening enemies

3) Every life is sacred! No civics that destroy the population (no nationhood or slavery). We cannot accept vassals as the Gupta's do not want to dominate any peoples. No cities can ever be razed (in fact I will turn off the option).

4) Slider is open for us.

I will play as Gandhi of the Indians, so no random civilizations this time. I think a Big-Small map would be fine to bring diplomacy into the game a bit.

Enough rules for an Epic Speed/Emperor level game for me!

Slider open brings the ever-powerful cottages back into the game instead of having to rely on caste artist or massed corps.

You don't clarify on trading for AH resources in your rule, but I'm assuming that's a negative.

5) For atmosphere and a little extra class, we shall promote the stereotypical Hindu practice of Vegetarianism! Thus we can never build any pastures, nor can we trade for cow/sheep/pig/horse. The Gupta's did not rely too much on horses anyway, so no mounted units for us. The exception are war Elephants (which seam proper here), and we can definitely make camps for Ivory and fur but not deer, and we can work the sea as much as we want.Of course you should stick with whatever restrictions you want, but I think "no pastures" goes too far:

Horse pastures only give +2:hammers: +1:commerce: so could be viewed solely as draft animals, not food animals.
Cows do give +1:food: besides the +2:hammers: but that could be viewed as milk-only, plus draft animal.
I agree the big food bonus from pasturing pigs and sheep represents carnivorism and you should avoid them.
But I guess the "no health bonus" restriction might rule out horses and cows anyway -- unless you view it as "healthier because of citizens being more productive with less effort" rather than "healthier because of greater variety of food."Given our restrictions and emperor difficulty I rerolled a bit until I got a workable in-land start that had access to elephants.I'd have been inclined to zoom far in and world-build one tile of elephants.