Welcome to the 55th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 55th game in BTS the chosen leader was again Willem van Orange of the Dutch:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LV/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LV/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
Oh, the Dutch... probably the most hyped civ of Civ IV :D I guess people really love Fin/Cre leaders and hammer giving UB ;) ....

Talking seriously, the Dutch in BtS have a leader with a 2 popular traits : financial and Creative. Financial is one of those down to earth traits: you work a tile with 2 C and get one C free of charge... simple and effective ( by some reason the Firaxians thought that half priced banks was OP and took it out of the trait when Warlords came ... but, by some other obscure reason, a 8 str swordsman UU is perfectly fine :lol: ). Creative is a little less down to earth , and in fact the more useful part of the trait is probably not the 2 :culture: but the half priced buildings, especially the libraries. Anyway Fin/Cre is a fine trait combo. The UU is somewhat underacheiving for a game that, for all it matters, is a land control game, in spite of not being a bad unit in it self.... but the UB is another issue :D



His UU
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LV/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
The Flying Dutchman.... er, East Indiaman is a boosted Galleon, that has a significant increase in strenght ( +50% ) at the cost of 10 extra hammers, a thing that allows it to eat galleons for breakfast and to fight privateers in equal ground ( it can also fight frigates cost effectivelly with some airship support, a nice thing to have when you don't have metals ... too bad it can't bombard city defenses as well ) . It can also enter enemy waters without OB, a thing that allows many neat tricks in assaulting coastal cities ;). Obviously will have a place in here, where it comes just in time for the intercontinental invasions.

His UB
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LV/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
The Dike is a levee that can be built in tiles with access to coast and/or river and that gives 1 hammer to all water and riverside tiles in the BFC of the city. This is actually quite a hammer boost in a lot of places and, given that this game can easily be won by having more production, this UB has a soft spot in the hearts of a lot of players ( in fact, IIRC, it is the only UB that gives hammers ). The biggest complaint you can ear about this UB is that it comes in a time where the game is normally decided ( I strongly disagree with that kind of argument line, but this is not the place for that kind of discussion ) or that the cities that could win more from it are the ones that will take ages to build it ( same as Moai statues ). Anyway a Dutch city with a Dike and Moai and with collossus in the empire during a GA is a pretty sight :p

The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LV/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
Well, not so watery as RL Netherlands, but will do ;) Plains hill sheep ( bah ) and clam are the only food resources visible and there isn't any sign of more. 3 hills ( one with the sheep and the others are grassland, some woods to chop in the north, a small river ( not much hammers from the dike here, I guess :p ), probably a metal hidden somewhere.... Not shiny, but will do.


Regarding the saves ( if you're using DanF change to the WB files load, skip this ): given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.

Any problem PM me...


P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 ( and earlier ) and 3.17 ( and later ) if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)

hooking in on this. Personally i rate Cre much higher than Fin, but i will take the extra Commerce ofc ;-) Capital looking quite food-poor i hope we dont get more plains. Maybe I try one south?

Immortal / Normal - Checkpoint 1
Settled in place, should have moved. Built the Great Lighthouse and the Great Library. Missed the Colossus for 2 turns and got a load of gold for it. Now I want to REX. i've just moved to Hereditary Rule and am researching Alphabet. After that it will be Currency, Code of Laws, Mathematics and Civil Service. I'm not the smallest, even though I haven't put any efforts to expanding yet.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW01.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW02.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW03.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW04.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW05.jpg

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/LHCWvO/LHCW06.jpg

@ Ignorant Teacher


Why tech Alpha? It's the prereq for PP, but if you grab Lib, nationalism -> Taj is the easier course considering you have marble. Even then, it's not adding anything now
The placement of the western cities isn't great now. Moving the southern desert city 1N3E, the city 5 tiles S of Utrecht 1N2E, the city S of the deer 1W and then adding another city SW of the grain. That will give you more workable tiles overall. Dikes don't require rivers, and considering the low happicap on the island, more cities is better, health won't be a problem when you get harbours anyway.

FIN/CRE is indeed nice, and on these kind of maps we're getting utility from the uniques, too. Even though I constantly say the dike is overrated, it's not like it's bad. I'll be using it here.

The start doesn't look very exciting. I'll probably move SW and if there's nothing exciting, settle in place.

It will be the first time I play a LHC, will post later, forgot to take screenshots in game, so I'll have to load de autosaves.

@ Ignorant Teacher


Why tech Alpha? It's the prereq for PP, but if you grab Lib, nationalism -> Taj is the easier course considering you have marble. Even then, it's not adding anything now
The placement of the western cities isn't great now. Moving the southern desert city 1N3E, the city 5 tiles S of Utrecht 1N2E, the city S of the deer 1W and then adding another city SW of the grain. That will give you more workable tiles overall. Dikes don't require rivers, and considering the low happicap on the island, more cities is better, health won't be a problem when you get harbours anyway.



I was going to tech it because it's a pre requisite for Currency and I stupidly forgot that Math does the same and I'll have to research it anyway. Now I'm glad I haven't put any beakers to it.

Thanks for the suggestions on the dot-map, I still have to work on that. I'll open the game to see how it will look like.

Noble/Normal
Checkpoint 1:
Built the GLH and the GL, tried to get confucianism, but failed. Got Monarchy and then beelined optics.
I have to build more workers, I always forget to build them.
My little empire:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6279/lhc920ad0000.jpg
Utrecht is the GP farm, Nijmegen and Amsterdam science city (still not knowing how to differ a science city from a commerce city), The Hague is science/naval production and Rotterdam is production (units and any other wonder I build will go there)

Immortal checkpoint 2


Settled 1S. I could see trees to the north so I went south hoping for food but no luck. At least I got an extra riverside grassland :lol: Wonders were going late so I went for a very late GLH. Got that, the GL, and the Parthenon. Just missed out on the Taj, and the AI is teching quite slow on this map. I accidentally took liberalism--nationalism when I bulbed liberalism, but I guess it's ok. Considering none of the AI have education yet, I definitely could have gotten a nicer tech...

Techs:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0140.jpg

Relations:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0141.jpg

Empire:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0139.jpg

I really need to start building more universities for Oxford but my cities are all hammer poor. I'm thinking of going for democracy then US to boost production. Oversea traderoutes are golden right now, as long as the stupid AI stay out of merc. I haven't really thought about VC yet but I should decide soon. I may just try for space as the starting land is quite good. I may go attack Gilgamesh as he's fairly backwards and his land would be a good addition. If I go after any of the other AI, I'll definitely need state property...

My capital:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0136.jpg

and GP farm:
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0137.jpg

edit: current GP usage: GA from music (GA for revolting to bureau + caste), GS on academy, settled in capital, education, liberalism, and double on astro. I love the triple food GP farm!

@IT


You need to spam more coastal cities if you're going to take advantage of the GLH. Plus, Dutch coastal cities are better with the dike.

@IT


You need to spam more coastal cities if you're going to take advantage of the GLH. Plus, Dutch coastal cities are better with the dike.



That's true. Man, I've been feeling so stupid since I switched to Immortal. It seems I keep doing everything wrong. :sad:

@ shyuhe:



I'm actually around checkpoint 2 here myself. We took pretty different approaches in this game. The common factor was GLH, but other than GLH I went colossus (realized I couldn't get TGL and skipped it by that point). I worked a lot of colossus coast and won liberalism but my tech picture isn't as nice as yours (I'm still doing pretty well though). I have a lot of infra up (early forges, massive whipping due to not growing cottages) and as of 1200-1300 AD will probably have oxford in capitol (in place, only city with cottages). Not sure who I'll target yet, but the diplo situation isn't bad for me.

Still carefully mulling SP + workshops vs democracy ----> emancipation + cover land in cottages. I'll see how diplo goes.

Edit: also lucked out on late philo bulb = taoism and got OR running quickly for production for a while.

checkpoint 1 + 1AD

Settled in place finally. I saw the coast south very near and wanted some room for city down there... well was soso, many plains in Amsterdam is quite sad.
the SW looks very dry, well i think i can get 12 cities pressed in, some just for 3-4 landtiles, but hopefully I´ll be ok.
city placement 1
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss193/euripides_de/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg
city placement 2
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss193/euripides_de/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
got 6 cities up, expanding further
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss193/euripides_de/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
tech plans, maybe I go Aest lit before
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss193/euripides_de/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
Teched AH mining BW wheel writing pottery masonry sailing alpha (dumb move here) myst med priest monarchy,Currency , currently on COL-->to CS
just realise i may go for GL as well, because wonders fall slow
At least second city is good GPFarm. Academy is up (around 700BC), second GS in 9, hopefully for philo!
First i fogbusted with warriors, now i have an axe on 9xp, farming on archers.

Immortal Normal Checkpoints 1 - 2 and trying to decide on 3. :)



I settled in place. I know I should stop myself building the GLh in these but I just can't help myself. :)

Lack of happies around so either HR or Mids was needed. Decided on HR and then promptly forgot to revolt untill I had CS a 1000 years later. Not the best of moves. :)

Other wonders. I managed to get the ToA, GLib, Colossus and just missed the Parth which I would have liked as well.

Lands after meeting everbody.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCWillemLands0000.jpg

Amsterdam. I might get around to some improvements here sometime. :lol:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCWillem-Amsterdam0000.jpg

A few gaps in the glance screen which helps explain the low tech rate.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCWillemGlance0000.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCWillemTechs0000.jpg

I did think of heading for Astro from here but decided to get it from lib instead which I duly managed.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/TechafterLibWilLHC0000.jpg

Astro doesn't only bring much needed trade routes but health/happy trades as well so I might be able to grow a bit now.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/ResourceDealsafterLib0000.jpg

Next plan is to get the GM from Economics. Shame I can't send him to the ToA city though. An early war would be possible but I think I am going to try for a space victory from here. Try my hand at cottages/dikes everywhere and see how that goes.

Jammeruno, IT --alpha is normally worth teching--you cannot lightbulb without it. You also get a discount on currency by having both alpha and math--that's normally worth it as well.

@TMIT


The philo bulb was annoying in my game. I was a turn or two away from my second GS when Taoism was founded - really slowed me down since I lost OR and pacifism. My GP farm is still humming along with pacifism but it would have been really nice to have it. Also, my infra is waaay behind this game - I just don't see any significant infra being built before US so I think I'm just going to continue teching peacefully. I still can't figure out why the AI tech rates are so bad on this map though. There's plenty of land out there and there haven't been many wars in my game either.


@IT


Immortal isolated is harder than a normal immortal map if you're not used to teching by yourself through liberalism/astronomy. It requires a slightly different balance of expansion vs. vertical growth since you can't get money from the AI and your trade routes are a lot weaker.

@shyuhe



I was surprised at the slow tech rate as well. But the majority of the AI didn't meet each other until they had Optics as well which slowed them down a lot so they were playing a sort of LHC as well. :)

IMM/Normal No events

Check 1 ---> 1 AD



Settled in place. Went GLH/Colossus, worked water for commerce farmed a lot for whipping.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Colossus coast ftw



Checkpoint 2: Lib/Circum/met AIs



Continued working colossus coast + whip. Got a lucky religion bulb so used OR on top of forges for a while. Went for lib before astro since I could probably use the education trades more easily and colossus makes astro slightly less appealing. Nothing special in this segment. Went FR shortly after meeting AI for diplo and ASAP got the more aggressive ones to pleased.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg



Checkpoint 3/4 -----> 1922 "TMIT was shot into space!"



Liking the diplo situation, I go democracy, emancipation, cottage/windmill everything like crazy. I already have a merchant (tried cereal mills, won't try it again on maps like this lol...still about 5 food though) and later pick up an engineer for mining inc.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

Civics are all the ones along the bottom of the civic screen. Also, gunned internet. Nobody is too close to culture so I just lazily head for space.

Internet just about seals it, denying any cute AI catchup:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

From there on out, it's coasting. The AI DoWs a lot, flings nukes at each other (I help it do this a couple times), and I just stay out of it, keeping everyone but hattie (a vassal) @ pleased.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/LHC%20willem%202/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg

Fun times.

checkpoint 3 ish

The AI are too busy with each other and everyone's at pleased, so I'm going space I think. I got all but Broadway from the modern wonders, after rush buying most of them for about 10k gold :lol: And without the Kremlin... Not efficient but Saladin was the only other competitor and he didn't have AL so his cities had low production. None of the AI look like they're going for culture so the rest should be a breeze. Got sushi but not mining (Fred).

I really wish I could just finish with diplo but the stupid AI in this game don't overlap in favorite civics and I have lots of -4 trading with worst enemy penalties from my tech whoring.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0144.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0143.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/shyuhe/Civ4ScreenShot0142.jpg

Checkpoint 4 Immortal/Normal



I thought I would try lots of cottages and head for space running US. It sort of worked out and if I had more cities/better land I think the results would have been a lot better.

I thought I would try for a UN win as well but never managed to get enough votes so space it would be.

Wonders I built all the late wonders, + the Taj, SoL. The only one I missed was manhattan and as I was UN president I banned them anyway. Generally the game was very peaceful. As soon as a war started I would stop it as I didn't want any negative diplo for not joining it whilst I was still trying to get my UN win.

So eventually.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/WilVictory0000.jpg

Thanks for hosting this R Rolo. :goodjob:

Gotta love the ridiculous similarity between the 3 immortal/normal games :lol:.

Gotta love the ridiculous similarity between the 3 immortal/normal games :lol:.

Must admit to noticing that myself. :)

Bah, even you, TMIT ? :( I was expecting...
... that aleast you tried to conquer atleast the other isolated civ . You can never find a warmonger when you need one :( :p

@rolo


I had thought of invading someone but when I found out that I didn't have coal, I gave up on that thought. I am getting coal from Peter right now but it took a while to get it. If I had gotten Kremlin, I probably would have gone for the invasion.

Similar line of reasoning as Shyuhe:



No coal -----> no coal plants. Rather than trading for it (nobody had it sufficiently for a while) I just built TGD (rare sighting in my games, as is space).

I started the majority of this game thinking war, as usual. Once I met everyone and saw the diplo landscape, however, I reconsidered.

I could have put infantry to pericles/hatty rifles, overtaken that continent, switched to SP (or just built FP), and rolled with troop spam from there. Probably could have done it with tanks, too. But the lack of coal was a put off (I'll be damned before I build self-destructing nuclear bombs in my cities) and by then space was just a path of least resistance.

Besides, when was the last time I won space in LHC? LHC Shaka?!

Checkpoint 2:

Started exploring with the caravels, interesting that saladin was one of the last AI's I found, and he was the closer one.
There were Peter, Saladin and Frederick buddhists, Gilgamesh and Hatty hinduists and Pericles judaist. I had no religion, but with Bureaucracy I managed to get Gilgamesh to friendly, traded some techs with him. After that Peter and Fred were my friends, but I traded with everyone, just got on a phony war with Hatty.
Forgot to take screens.


Checkpoint 3/Victory (1928 AD):

I decided to try a cultural win powered by corps and mass media wonders. Got DP's with Peter and Fred, founded Sid's Sushi and the gold/silver/gems corp (forgot the name). All cities were producing wealth, except for the 3 big cities, that were producing Culture and my best production city (The Hague) that was making units and ICBMS, you know, just in case I needed them.

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3789/utrechtsameturn0000.jpg
Just after winning I realized that I forgot to spred SS to Utrecht, so it was the last one.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5941/amsterdan1turn0000.jpg
The capital, first to become Legendary.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2366/rotterdam1turn0000.jpg
Rotterdam, it was my production city, so it got culture from Hermitage and some wonders.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/919/empirewin0000.jpg
The whole empire, The Hague was a really nice city, with a good production and commerce (IW went there, as Rotterdam would be one of the big 3).

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2370/powergraph0000.jpg
Well, you don't need much power to produce culture :)

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5875/scoregraphic0000.jpg
First just for a few turns =/

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2245/topcities0000.jpg
:D

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8011/ypinh0000.jpg
Not bad

Oh, the cities were starving because people stopped to trade some Sid's resources to me =/

immortal, normal to 1090

Land is pretty good, leader is very strong. I settle in place as the warrior move reveals that moving might kill a city site. Rush to the GLH, then build the glib and head out to astro.
Seems to me that the gain from getting astro early is worth risking lib--often if you go lib then you have to guess whether to try and pop astro or just take nat. The astro first route normally lets you meet all the ai before you start trading so you can better plan your relations.
Here I'm a tech runaway so I'm losing interest--I'll easily get lib as well.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/ungy_2007/Civ4ScreenShot0554.jpg


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/ungy_2007/Civ4ScreenShot0555.jpg

Cultural victory on Monarch.

Got alot of wonders (TGL, Oracle, Colossus, and so on, basically all the Marble ones), teched towards Liberalism, explored with Caravels, got Astronomy and could finally open up trade routes.

Traded for happiness resources, decided to go for a cultural victory. Didn't get any religions until VERY late when I took a couple of turns and spread them like crazy and build temples/cathedrals. Teched until Mass Media, traded for all the military techs, turned of the research slider and started spamming destroyers and machine guns but no one declared on me (had decent diplo and had befriended Peter/Frederick in the Confu block).

Won cultural around 1940 after 4.5 hours. AI never really got close to me techwise and I basically just wonderwhored my way to victory.

About the Immortal games (up to modern era)


What the... In my game Fred got 19 (nineteen) cities peacefully, while Sally got a whopping 4 and dutifully peacevassaled to Fred at first opportunity. Fred is being a real :):):):):) and stole SoL, 3GD and Kremlin by 5-ish turns each. Now I don't mind the rest but 3GD is a real problem since that means no power to the majority of my cities with no access to Coal. Techs "quite well" too - not to mention he got MiningInc and has over three times my MFG. Having some tough times, will make a proper writeup if I don't fail horribly.

Settled in place, should have moved.
Where would you have moved, and why?

Immortal/Normal, short recap of the whole game:


So as I said already, Frederick got 19 cities peacefully and enjoyed a few peaceful vassal tech-leg-ups on top of that, SoL, Kremlin, 3GD, MiningInc, the whole shebang.

It boiled down to the space race, I was building parts in my 3 cities that had power (no 3GD, no Coal for the rest, now I realize I should have used nuclear power, didn't even cross my mind tbh. Actually pisses me off as well that I didn't think of that.) and a capital-razing army in the others with rushbuy. So, he started to dilly-dally with his SS just a little bit because he was fighting a few wars (into which I bribed him), but nevertheless he launched 1 turn before me, and with 1 engine more. So I was late by 3 turns.

So I tried to capture his capital with an invasion army of about 60 units split into 2 stacks to avoid nukes, while launching a few dozen ICBMs to soften him up - only about 10 landed of course because of SDI. So I nuked him and landed my invasion army, but he actually nuked his own city to blast my other SoD (actually targeted the city square and not my SoD which was next to it), I didn't even know that's possible. The other got to the ports of Berlin before getting blasted by another barrage of nukes and was annihilated.

So in short: 3 turns late for SS, 1 turn off from capturing capital.

I just hate losing, so I'm kind of pissed off! I might have stood a chance by launching a ragtag spaceship but that just feels like a sucker's way to win if it's all in a coinflip. Probably wouldn't still have helped me though. I also would have won if I hadn't built that invasion army and slowbuilt some Casings and Thrusters. Now that's some irony I guess. Blech.



EDIT: Found out the reason:


So Vedic Aryans captured Medina which left Frederick free to expand as he pleased. I'm starting to see TMITs point about random events...

Prince/Epic.

The less than brilliant start spot does have a river and a seafood resource which is, by definition, pro-Dutch and in an isolated opening the financial trait (my favourite crutch) and the UU (nice timing) should be telling. I'll move the warrior 1 SW for a look-see.

Wrapped up my game. Nothing spectacular but the final glance shot is funny.


I continued teching towards space. Lost the internet to Fred by a turn which threw off my tech tree. Also forgot to get superconductors so I built most of my SS without labs. Still, no one was close to victory when I launched.

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Eeeeep, that's what I get for going on vacation.

The Dutch are one of my favorite civs for long term games, where the dike can actually make a difference. And Will is pretty good for the early game between creative and financial giving their biggest boosts in that period of the game. Great thing about isolation with the Dutch is that it means plenty of coast for the dike and plenty of chances for invasions from the sea.

I will try to get it all done tomorrow.

Prince/Epic. Checkpoint 1. 2825 BC.
The Dutch opened with workboat, warrior and a settler is to come in 5 turns. The tech path was mining, BW and AH with sailing on the way. The two border-popped huts produced a useless map and 63 gold; the third hut is being saved for a future city's pop as a scout would be a waste.

Regarding the land, happiness will be the challenge. With no stone for the Pyramids, monarchy will have to be teched-out when needed because construction, for colosseums, is not the highest of priorities.

The nascent plan in Amsterdam is to go long with the first new city to claim the copper and place the next 2S of the marble. Given all the forests this should provide a chance of the Great Lighthouse, the Colossus and the Great Library in the capital for a GPF/science centre. Fingers crossed; luck does count.

Checkpoint 1 (Noble, Marathon)

It seems that we have a decent little island. Too bad we have no calander resources, since that is a high priority tech in isolation. I moved my settler east one, to the top of the hill, so Amsterdam could grab a pair of sheep and wheat, as well as the clams after another city can make a workboat. I researched AH and then mysticism (I must be half asleep, since I don't remember actually PICKING mysticism.) I am now working on the wheel, thinking of pottery, since our island is a pretty good size.

With marble, I am half tempted to start working on a cultural win right now, but any industrius leader would most likely beat me to any wonders, anyway.

For now, I think I will just take my few happy resources on a decent size island and run.

Checkpoint 2 (Noble, Marathon)

Hey! That's not too isolated! I ended up meeting with Saladin the same turn I finished researching optics, and it sure wasn't because of his tech lead! Our culture just got close enough.

However, I got some things from him. I gave him currency and 290 gold for calender, meditation, and polythism. I, a bit later, got monarchy, monotheism, and archery for compass, but that was after I had met a few other civs.

Anyway, let's go back a bit. The island was pretty easy to fog bust due to the shape, so barbs were not a problem at all. I fit 9 cities on the island with little overlap. I researched the weel, pottery, mining, BW, writing, masonry, Math, Alpha, currency, COL, Hunting, sailing, metal casting, IW, Machinery, Compass, Optics, priesthood, philosophy, and am now working on astronomy.

COL netted me confusanism.

I see 2 big threats. Gilgamesh is quite advanced and powerful. He is also a part of the jewish group that has the AP and numbers. Frederick is totally backwards (only person without construction, metal casting, and Alphabet right now), but he has quite a military and a ton of land. I will probably try to push a few people to war him, since he is buddist, which only has one other follower.

Overall, this looks very winnable from where I stand now. I have not yet figured out the map, yet, but it looks like Saladin will be a good target, since no matter how the lay of the land (and sea) is, he is the only hindu civ, so killing him won't tick anyone off.

Epic Immortal


Another SS victory here, can't really be bothered to play it out. Took Astro from Lib after meeting the AI late (1100 A.D. ish), where I managed to trade for compass, machinery and optics the the 3 turns leading up to me getting Lib. Founded Sushi and still outteching the AI quite handily. Lategame war could be won for sure, although that would require a retooling for production after building the internet, also, I only have 13 warrior as my standing army ATM, but +14 from both Peri and Peter means I have an easy double defensive pact that keep trouble away.

Needless to say, going to war would take far more real-life time than just going to space, but spacerace endgames are boring as hell so I'm just gonna skip that.

Checkpoint 3/4 (Noble/Marathon)

Ah, my stupidity spoils the day, mostly due to the fact that I was trying to play this one fast, and I ended up losing it in a most unexpected way.

Not long after last report, Gilgamesh switched to toasim. I was pretty happy just to run around the map and see what was there while getting a decent fleet of east indamen.

When Saladin and Peter both declared on Fred, my choice of who to attack got easier, but I wasn't really ready yet. I declared anyway (no minus relationships, since only Peter shared Fred's religion, and he didn't have optics, let alone astro to attack me).

I only got one city, but Fred was in deep trouble by the time I got there anyway, and he ended up as Saladin's vassel. That made things a bit more complicated, but I still thought I could take on Saladin. I went back for a bit more military buildup before making my move.

I won the lib race, in the meantime. I took scientific method, since it was the most expensive tech at the time, and I had little hope of getting enough religions to really care about monostaries. Besides, I wanted Gilgamesh and Peter as friends, so I was running HR.

Saladin declared war on me, which was just fine. I was less than 10 tuns from doing the same to him. I moved in, took 2 cities, including the holy hindu city of Mecca, and razed 2 more. Fred jumped ship, and my bad planning shined though when my attack stalled on lack of siege.

While making a grab for one last city, which I ended up getting, Saladin bribed (I assume, due to placement and relationships) Gilgamesh into the war. He ran 3 units into a musket on defense in a city...from sea...with a longbowman and a crossbowman...then got his fleet of ships transformed into a fleet of driftwood.

I ended up getting nothing from Saladin, who became Peter's vassel after a short war between the two, and Gilgamesh was pretty eager to see peace, as well, when he would talk again.

My military was good enough. I easily saw the chance for domination here.

After another bit of a military buildup and a GG spawning from Fred's suicide attacks, I was eyeing if Greece or Egypt should be the first to be wiped out. Peracles made that choice for me, I thought. He declared right around the time I had researched combustion, but Hetty came right along with him. Egypt's advanced army was too small to stand up to my might, and Greece's was so backwards that it was no threat. Combined with my beautiful new oil based navy, they could do nothing to stand in my way.

Vassels? Them? No thanks, Pereclies was kind enough to build versilles, after all.

Before the war was over, I had to go to a class, so I just left Civ up (it is rare anyone closes it, and even then, they know to save it, and even if they didn't, quicksaves!) My bad planning struck again. My wife's daughter decided to play Civ for the first time in a month, and didn't save the game.

So I lost the game.

I was well on my way to winning, too.

BAH!

I learned my lesson, at least...next time, I will take some pictures. I was trying to do this one fast, since it got put up while I was on vacation.

My first time playing one of these games from the forum, this one sounds like fun and I love Civ. Van Oranje (I've referred to him as vanOwnage hehe) is a very good leader for an isolated map as his setup thrives under peaceful conditions without the need to worry about a large military early.

So here we go. Checkpoint 1: Surveying my land.

I built my settler right where he started, as when I looked south I saw I could squeeze in two more cities there. My techs at the start were Hunting, AH, Mining, Wheel, BW, Sailing, Pottery, Writing, Iron Working. My prodution went workboat, scout, worker. I only grabbed one hut with a warrior, the rest I just spotted with him until my scout got to them so I could ensure I got no nasty barb pops. I went for the huts early so that I could possibly get a free tech or two. I did get mysticism for free :), which helped later on. Now for some screen shots. My warrior also luckily killed a few lions and I was able to save him and upgrade him to an axeman later. An archer and two spearmen later and I had my Heroic Epic unit! Whoo hoo

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Went for the Silver mine first as I wanted the happiness to help in building the GLH, which I did with ease.
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After the GLH it was a dash to the east to pickup the marble and make a stab for the Oracle. I stopped halfway through Monarchy to pickup Mono for a Oracle grab for another relegion. I had already teched up to CoL right after I finished Iron Working.
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I decided to put the Mosai in the far east town since I placed it on the very edge... sorta planned that... I'll make a productive city out of you yet!
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Got the Col. no problem... attempting the hanging gardens to really help my health...
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Drat, got beat by a few turns before I could whip it :( Perhaps could have gotten it with better worker play on the chops there, but oh well.
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Popped my great artist for a golden age to try for three great wonders... but got beat on the freaking Mausoleum :( This game would be so much better if I had gotten that wonder too. I love popping Taj Mahal and 2 specialist for a 30 turn GA :lol:
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Captain? Set sail, aye aye captain!

So lets meet our neighbors shall we, and see if they are friend or foe.


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First two I meet are these two. Egypt is very small, a vassal of Perc in fact so there's one alliance I'll have to look out for.
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I quickly dart along greeks coast and my caravel returns home after dropping off his explorer to get intel on their lands. I also met Gilgamesh along the way, who was at war with Greece, but his petty army wasn't doing much on their homland, just pestering a forested hill along the coast.
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Ah, a true challenge to my authority. His techs may be behind, but his land and army must be sizeable.
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Time to kick up the unit production now that I have an audience to impress. This is where I completed the quest to build 7 stables and I elected to get 7 free horse archers since my power had been horrible to this point.
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Yay a free luxary, and a health item with grociers, awesome!
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Researched Taoism normally, the more religion the better right? I've only gotten 1 great prophet so far, could really use a second to supplement my economy :) This civic setup should suite me well until I get astronomy
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I bet you're wondering why I've left all these forest unchopped... well I'm getting to that! (I also like the added health, lets me delay building health buildings so that I can focus on Econ / tech buildings instead.)
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Another quest! yay, only have to whip two towns to get that.
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Let's make the ships REALLY fast ok?
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Setting up for a 1 two punch on the Taj Mahal. I was able to complete it and learn Liberalism on the same turn. Helps when people flock to your wonder building city
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh317/bphii/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpgIt's Dike Time!!
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Add a cherry on top of this golden age, now I can really boost my power rating!
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Who needs hills?

Diplomatically I managed to piss off Perc due to some preassure from Gilgamesh, but then once I changed to free religion everyone was cautious / pleased with me. I also pissed off Peter because I didn't want to have people trading with him (used Apolsticle palace election to force people to stop trading). I had been building missionaries and sending them over to Egypt, Sumeria, and finally Germany. I didn't give them to Russia, Greece or Arabia (who is totally losing hardcore).

When I got Steam Power I frowned that I didn't have a source of coal. However, I plan to go take it by force given the random events that have helped my military production and I have a really nice tech lead on my target. Stay tuned for checkpoint 3 as I sound the drums of WAR!

Prince/Epic. Checkpoint 2. 970 AD.
Plan Amsterdam actually worked as outlined in the previous report. Urecht went 1W of the silver, The Hague 2S of the marble and the Great Lighthouse, the Colossus and the Great Library were built in Amsterdam which also landed the Parthenon and the National Epic. To be fair, there was neither barbarian trouble nor an industrious opponent; Lucky Willem even scored the triremes (caravels-in-waiting) quest.

Rotterdam was settled 1N of the nearby middle wine, Nijmegen 1S of the western sheep and Maaastric on the western deer, leaving three good sites in the west and one in the SE. There is room for a few lesser cities if strategy dictates and the economy permits.

The Dutch circumnavigated in 960 the same year Amsterdam buildings were wiped out by a hurricane - not all luck is good. The opposition was met between 870 and 930. With rough tech parity trading will be tricky. Saladin, Frederick and Peter are all happy Hindus so the high command is uncertain as to how to plan a war against one of the other powers without inviting an invasion from the south.

Checkpoint 3 and 4 on a Noble / Epic game


So I begin amassing an army. Right before my troops load the transports Gilgamesh thinks it'd be funny to invade my lands with 2 macemen and a handful of catapults. I easily repel them with my cannons and flanking garrisons. So then it's off on the boat after a quick upgrade to grenadiers for my 12 city raiders.

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Meanwhile down south I've been blockading Saladin and some of Peter's town to slow down their tech advancement, and to help fund my war efforts. Also I was able to get a Privateer to level 6 by using the blitz promotion with him. Yummy Caravels :)
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One turn before I make landfall on Greece's shores we see that Peter has been monitoring my actions and is trying to beat me to the punch! Good thing I'm way better organized for this war than he is. He only manages to capture 1 city on greece / egypt's mainland, and a two city island to the east.
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The war runs smoothly for the most part. I could have brought a transport or two more of cannon's to make it a total breeze. But I figure a few city raiders lost is no big deal in the big picture. Meanwhile back on the mainland I get some more positive random events to help with my economy and happiness.
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Finally someone gets chemistry and scares away my Privateers. Why you gotta be so mean Fredrick geeze!! :P
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Greece's empire falls 23 turns, he never put up much of a fight, save throwing a few catapults at my stacks before the city fell the next turn.

Egypt would fall in 13 turns. She never put up a fight on land, though did manage to kill a frigate or two of mine. Having a lot of cargo ships to move the troops really helps :)
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Back home we start the industrial revolution with the aid of a golden age.
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I consolidate my invasion army and load them onto transports to begin phase 2 of my domination plans, Gilgamesh, the fool who declared war on ME! A two pronged assault like the last island seems like the easiest way to a quick conquest here.
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My navy is chomping at the bit for some action, but his boats remain at port for most of the battle.
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This poor caravel will have to wait a turn to die :( My destroyers had all bombarded or attacked when he was trying to consolidate his navy to a different town.
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Sadly the rest of his navy would be torched at the docks. Gilgamesh falls in 26 turns. He actually put up a counter assault to my eastern army, but they were garrisoned in the first captured city and infantry > calvary especially on a hill :)
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With two island's conquered and the Greece natives now happily churning out garrison's for my new conquest I set my sights on my last rival to tackle, mother Russia.
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I ammased a large army of Marines in what would be a huge coastal invasion on multiple fronts. I built a forts on Gilgamesh's border with him to station newly built bomber plains to help soften up the defenses on that shore to make the marines job easier. On his north and west shore I deployed 1 aircraft carrier each with some fighters for infantry garrison softening. On D day I captured 9 coastal cities, the next turn his last remaining on the motherland fell and the Egypt island near greece fell the turn after. (Lost the most marines there as I sent some injured ones in at 50%ish odds against 1 stubborn infantry). Only lost a handful of marines in the invasion as he had mostly longbowmen for garrisons, even though he had the tech for infantry. I guess his economy wasn't so great :(
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With all of the coastal cities captured I ferried over my invasion army of infantry, artillary, and tanks. The inward push to Moscow and St. Petersberg went without a hitch and his last city fell about 15 turns from the start of the invasion.

With the defeat of the Russians I consolidated my army and braced against the german culture. I slashed all reasearch funding and began to ship in movies and hit singles to win over the newly conquered cities. The presence of modern armor and anti-tank units really helped to hold the german culture back from flipping any of the cities, but it was close, especially up north. Not wanting to be a TOTAL war monger I just set most of my cities to automated production and let the turns tick by until my eventual victory. Maybe I should try playing at a higher difficulty?
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Prince/Epic. Checkpoint 3. 1780AD.
The last four cities were settled: Middleburg 1NE of the western iron, Delft in the extreme SE for fish and wheat, Leiden 1N of the SW wheat, Haarlem 1SW of the NW wheat. During this period GPF/Amsterdam added Angkor Wat, the Sistine Chapel and Shwedagon Paya. Trading was problematic but the race to Liberalism was a gimme even allowing 1 turn away while economics, chemistry and printing press were teched.

A solution to the three Hindu amigos in the south remained aproblem until 1270 when Gilgamesh built the Apostolic Palace (Greek-Judism) which rapidly sread to Holland - Target Uruk. In 1716, while the invasion force was not yet fully commissioned, Saladin declared war and lost many assets in the great bay area (bad timing) but Frederick followed suit in 1728 prompting Saladin to become his vassal. Fortunately, Peter took a whack at Pericles and then Gilgamesh during the troubles.

The Dutch have a solid war-tech lead, have captured four Arabian cities including the Hindu and Christian HQ's. However, is only fourth in power while Frederick holds the hammer. A sink or swim war appears the only course to a victory... and the Dutch are treading blood-stained water.

Prince/Epic. Cheackpoint 4. 1917 AD. Domination Victory.
The Dutch were at war with Arabia and Germany when, in 1790, Gilgamesh attacked Middelburg - things can always get worse. It was another near run thing but Russia was bribed into joining that war. In 1808 peace was made with Frederick and Saladin renounced his protection - breathing space. The last Arabian city, on that Greek island, fell in 1844.

Pal Peter came in on the second Summeriam War. It required the hit of defying an AP resolution but Gilgamesh capitulated in 1870. The real German-Dutch War commenced in 1890 with the third-time bribed Peter onside - he even became a voluntary vassal in 1898 - and Frederick capitualed in 1909. The Greek War was the bloodiest and only ended when the Dutch finally torched the ever-changing-hands Athens to the ground. As a back-up, Amsterdam was only four turns away from the UN.
Fortune favours the "forced" bold?