I'm getting really sick of the BTS AI having played the game for about a month after buying it for my mac. They refuse to trade techs, ALL THE TIME. I may be friendly or pleased with them, but it's always "we fear you are becoming too advanced" or "We don't like you enough" or, "We just don't want to start trading this technology away yet". What the hell!
It's been a major issue in my recent game where I was dealt a crap start and managed to forge out a decent empire, only to be lagging in tech. The AI, one of which is in the lead but has only three cities that can actually do anything, the other 7 are in the tundra (another thing i don't get), has managed to remain two to three techs above me. I'm friends with a good majority of the world, but they all refuse to trade and I'm stuck with rifles and grens while their learning how to launch rockets. Ugh.

Is there any way to get a friendly or pleased AI to actually trade with me, I'm goddamn sick of this

Not sure if you are just venting or actually looking for advice. There is a lot more detailed info readily available if you search old posts but here is the quick answer:

1) Friendly AIs will pretty much always trade everything.

2) Most AIs have some diplomatic threshold for trading ("we just don't like you enough"). Only a handful will not trade at annoyed, however, so it is unlikely that this is the cause of most of your problems. A few will not trade at cautious, iirc.

3) "We fear you are becoming too advanced" (WFYABTA) results when you have traded for an inbalanced amount of techs from the AI in question; ie, you give them alphabet for Meditation, Poly, archery, etc. These types of trades add up and every AI has a different threshold for this. GUys like Cyrus tend to get it pretty early, Mansa Musa almsot never will.

4) "We just don't want to start trading away this technology yet" occurs when an AI has a monopoly (or close to it) on a tech and is simply unwillign to trade it away yet. Again, different AIs have different thresholds on this point.

5) Another you didn't mention is "we have our reasons" which usually means they are attemptign to build a wonder which requires the tech.

Thanks. It was half vent half searching for advice haha. I had to ditch the game, its just impossible to continue at my skill level.

What difficulty are you playing? Posting a save will help a lot with these types of questions. Your frustrations may stem from problems much more fundamental than tech trading issues.

I used to play on monarch but getting BTS bumped me down to prince. I knew exactly what I did wrong in the game and I was trying to see if I could come back. I deleted the save in frustration, but I was running 50% research the whole game because i had built a massive military in hopes of clearing room, but everyone who I would declare on either vassalized or was my best friend. So i was stuck with a massive army draining my economy for a thousand years as I couldn't do anything with it, and if I were to delete the soldiers, I would have been a prime target for a lot of civs. I was screwed

I'm loving the name of this thread... They are not your friends, ever! Just kill them!

Is there any way to get a friendly or pleased AI to actually trade with me, I'm goddamn sick of this

There are some things you need to know about the game technically to play it properly. Look over this forum for WFYABTA and WHEOOHRN amongst other things. An keep your power/soldier levels high. I got sick of hidden stuff in the game when I started, but as I got to know the stuff I needed, the good part of the game came to the fore - but you need this forum, don't just bang your head against the wall. Oh, and WAGE WAR ! its a wargame, the peaceful stuff is for flash folk.

but I was running 50% research the whole game because i had built a massive military in hopes of clearing room, but everyone who I would declare on either vassalized or was my best friend. So i was stuck with a massive army draining my economy for a thousand years as I couldn't do anything with it, and if I were to delete the soldiers, I would have been a prime target for a lot of civs. I was screwed

Firstly why build a massive army if you dont intend on using it? If everyone is at friendly and they are a passive Ai they wouldnt attack anyway. Large amounts of units will give you a huge cost base you dont need. better to rush an AI. On deity level some players defend with a warrior per city for most of the early game.

If people are vassalized it suggests you left your early attack too late! Attacking before longbow arrive is invaluable. If an AI is 8-10 tiles away a rush can give you huge swathes of land. A rush before 2000bc with copper in BFC is always useful.

Axes early on. Horsearchers, or axes with catapults can be strong. 7-8 catpults can reduce archers to nothing.

If you want true game advice post a save. Just dont ask me about dot mapping. lol

In my exerience there are also some leaders that are less "reasonable" than others regarding what they will trade and for what, despite you being at pleased or friendly with them.

Sitting Bull, for instance, is one of those leaders that in my games will trade techs only at ridiculous discrepancies in worth, like demand techs worth 6,000 science points for one that costs 1,000.

Maybe someone more familiar with the code could shed some more light on this.

In my exerience there are also some leaders that are less "reasonable" than others regarding what they will trade and for what, despite you being at pleased or friendly with them.

Sitting Bull, for instance, is one of those leaders that in my games will trade techs only at ridiculous discrepancies in worth, like demand techs worth 6,000 science points for one that costs 1,000.

Maybe someone more familiar with the code could shed some more light on this.

This is not the case. If they offer ridiculously lopsided trades, it's not just them being a jerk, it just means they have researched most of the tech already. Just go ahead with the trade (if it's useful), in a turn or two you'll get nothing.

3) "We fear you are becoming too advanced" (WFYABTA) results when you have traded for an inbalanced amount of techs from the AI in question; ie, you give them alphabet for Meditation, Poly, archery, etc. These types of trades add up and every AI has a different threshold for this. GUys like Cyrus tend to get it pretty early, Mansa Musa almsot never will.
Not....

Things actually work a little diferent: every AI will keep a bookcount of the tech trades that all the other civs do with the civs they know or knew ( this bit of intel is important ). After a certain civ hits a leader dependent number ( and level dependent... AI by default play Noble in this regard, so the other AI will have Noble level WFYABTA with them ) of adquired techs ( bought, demanded or offered by the other part, beaker count being irrelevant ) it will hit WFYABTA. The only two ways of getting out of that status are waiting for a AI to randomly forget that you made a certain tech deal or having them really Friendly with you ( I mean Friendly with you and Friendly with all of your vassals if appliable ) , where they will pretend that they don't have WFYABTA with you ( if you drop out of really friendly, they will show it again )

1) Friendly AIs will pretty much always trade everything.

2) Most AIs have some diplomatic threshold for trading ("we just don't like you enough"). Only a handful will not trade at annoyed, however, so it is unlikely that this is the cause of most of your problems. A few will not trade at cautious, iirc.

3) "We fear you are becoming too advanced" (WFYABTA) results when you have traded for an inbalanced amount of techs from the AI in question; ie, you give them alphabet for Meditation, Poly, archery, etc. These types of trades add up and every AI has a different threshold for this. GUys like Cyrus tend to get it pretty early, Mansa Musa almsot never will.

4) "We just don't want to start trading away this technology yet" occurs when an AI has a monopoly (or close to it) on a tech and is simply unwillign to trade it away yet. Again, different AIs have different thresholds on this point.

5) Another you didn't mention is "we have our reasons" which usually means they are attemptign to build a wonder which requires the tech.

#3 is inaccurate but r_rolo1 cleared it up. Also, there is

6) "No, thanks, we would like to win." This means the AI is pursuing a Space Race victory and that tech unlocks spaceship parts. They will not trade it under any circumstances. Even friendly AI's will hold out on you for this one.

I think friendly AIs will also withhold techs based on "We have our reasons" but I'm pretty sure they ignore "We don't want to start trading just yet" and I know they ignore WFYABTA.

More tips:

7) A Vassal, even one that hates your freaking guts, treats you as friendly for purposes of tech trading.

--Ramesses holding out on you? You said you had a big army. Take his 5 best cities and make that eyeliner wearing freak your servant. He'll trade what he has. You can also tell him what to research next so you can get things you eventually want, but don't need right away, like facism. You'll even get some wonders out of the mix, too. He has wonders. Ramesses ALWAYS has wonders.

8) Check the trade screen every turn (or use the BUG mod, so you don't have to) to see what trades are available.

--The more AIs have a tech, the less valuable they consider it to be, so trade techs you have a monopoly on ASAP. Also see if they might trade what you just gave them to someone else next turn. Beat them to the punch. You trade it and get something for it, even if it is just 100 gold and an updated world map. Now the AI can't trade it. Speaking of which:

9) World maps are worth serious bank.

--If you have explored more of the map than they have (or learned of it through buying maps), you can get hundreds of gold or low value techs for it. Being the first one to get paper and/or the first one to obtain maps of another continent, you can make a fortune in one turn based on nothing other than maps.

10) Try to get stuff for free.

--If you have a much larger military than someone else, and poor diplomatic relations, you can intimidate them into giving free techs. If you have good diplomatic relations, just ask. You'd be surprised. Even if they will just give you a little gold, it doesn't hurt to ask.

11) Give stuff away cheap or free.

--If you give someone a good deal or free stuff, you can get a temporary boost of up to 4 in your diplomatic relationship. This will usually bump you up one level. For some AIs, bumping them from Furious to Annoyed will enable tech trading, but for most you must bump them up to cautious. Bumping them up to pleased enables you to beg stuff for free without incurring diplomatic penalties, and bumping them to friendly gives you temporary relief from the WFYABTA limit. You also get better deals when you have good diplomatic standing with your trading partner.

Firstly why build a massive army if you dont intend on using it? If everyone is at friendly and they are a passive Ai they wouldnt attack anyway. Large amounts of units will give you a huge cost base you dont need. better to rush an AI. On deity level some players defend with a warrior per city for most of the early game.

I hardly defend at all, I don't make this little mistakes you suggest I do. The army was there to remove Gilgamesh from the corner of the continent, but he quickly vassalized to Sury who was my best friend. Wang Kon borded me with one city but had crap land, thus I had no intention of declaring on him, and I kept the army out of preventative measures as it was he, catherine, izzy and alex who hated me.

If people are vassalized it suggests you left your early attack too late! Attacking before longbow arrive is invaluable. If an AI is 8-10 tiles away a rush can give you huge swathes of land. A rush before 2000bc with copper in BFC is always useful.

Axes early on. Horsearchers, or axes with catapults can be strong. 7-8 catpults can reduce archers to nothing.

If you want true game advice post a save. Just dont ask me about dot mapping. lol

My start was awful, and I really had to push to get land. I managed to put three cities down and block Gilgamesh, who then settled five cities around the three I blocked him with. I dislodged all of these with axes. I didn't lose an opportunity. Please, if you're going to answer my question, then just answer my question, don't make assumptions about my gameplay :(

Holy crap Starkow, looking at that economic left/social libertarian scale, I'm thinking that maybe the problem is that you are expecting too much sharing and not building enough cottages to encourage your capitalistic citizens to fuel your own research.:p

Oh I've got cottages everywhere, they all just share the wealth generated from them while we put specialists to work in the fields and watch as our nation bumbles along poorly advancing :D

Heh! Makes sense to me!

One more reason for not trading a tech is that the AI is building the wonder that comes with that tech, hence "we do not want to trade this technology yet".

One more reason for not trading a tech is that the AI is building the wonder that comes with that tech, hence "we do not want to trade this technology yet".

Nope, as noted above that just means enough Civs don't know it (monopoly whine). If they're building a wonder it's always "We have our reasons" and they never trade it then (before someone completes the wonder).