View Full Version : Soirana wants to be a god - 01


Soirana
Sep 28, 2009, 08:00 AM
Guess title tells basics. I decided to make it online in hopes someone points at my problems on this level.

Fractal Deity [i was assured start is not isolated or semiisolated].
3.19 with Buffy on [sorry puting BUG out and in CustomAssets is not much fun]

01 is cause i am not sure 9 tries to win will be enough.

Glorious leader of choice - Zara [Creative+Organized] of Ethiopia [buffed monuments and muskets].

Start
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9595/civ4screenshot0001u.jpg

I plan slowly crawl towards my inevitable death:lol:. For start it is AH while settling in place most surely.

Gumbolt
Sep 28, 2009, 08:25 AM
I would certainly settle a city before turn 20. :lol:

The gold will be useful. Whilst a city with 3 food might be nice on this level i think go for commerce and settle in place.

I think most would warn me against settling 1-2 tiles from the coast.

shyuhe
Sep 28, 2009, 08:37 AM
The rice isn't irrigated so it's not worth moving to pick it up over gold. So settle in place and hope for horses.

kossin
Sep 28, 2009, 09:35 AM
As already said, looks like a no-brainer in place. AH>BW>Ag(low food)

dirtyparrot
Sep 28, 2009, 11:23 AM
took a quick look at the save and it's definitely a winnable map (mind you not for me isn't :)).

Duckweed
Sep 28, 2009, 01:08 PM
Settle in place won't get any more food resource than 2 cows. I'd consider 1SW for a little more possibility from 6 uncovered tiles.

PaulisKhan
Sep 28, 2009, 01:25 PM
I'm with the Duck.

You trade 1 turn for a reasonable chance of picking up another resource (although it looks like one of the tiles is desert)

Kid R
Sep 28, 2009, 01:40 PM
Guess title tells basics.

Well you called it installment "01" instead of "1" - looks like a good sign to me - already planning on needing the extra digit. I love watching online deity play so at least 10 more games - woohoo!

This start looks pretty good to me. Gold=grin. Cows=smile. Two cows=grin. Rice and 4 grass hills already suggests a fantastic city 2 to the east on the coast, assuming it's not just a lake.

shyuhe
Sep 28, 2009, 01:44 PM
Settle in place won't get any more food resource than 2 cows. I'd consider 1SW for a little more possibility from 6 uncovered tiles.

Scout 2SW will reveal half of those tiles. Assuming the eastern hills aren't fresh water (probably not since it's either a big lake or the ocean), scouting east doesn't seem useful at this stage.

kossin
Sep 28, 2009, 01:47 PM
It indeed is not a lake (under 10 tiles) because hovering over the tiles next to it doesn't show Fresh Water.
I'd scout like Shyuhe said.

Kid R
Sep 28, 2009, 02:24 PM
I would settle in place and start scouting the partially-visible area to the the east. What could possibly be revealed that would suggest a move south? If there was anything 2SW or 3S the start generator would have put the settler further south since that would get all the currently-visible resources plus the hidden ones too and only lose forests. There simply can't be anything there.

bestsss
Sep 28, 2009, 02:40 PM
Settle in place... I am serious as heart attack. If you turn the action proposals you'd see that the the next east tile is proposed, it's almost 90% sure, it's a coast.

Lansky
Sep 28, 2009, 03:20 PM
Also agree with Duckweed.

You keep all visible resources and lose some flat forests with little risk of losing any uncovered resources. Unfortunately Kid R I have had very nice resources such as corn, gold, etc 1 tile away from my capitals BFC too many times to count. I trust the start generator but not that much.

Kid R
Sep 28, 2009, 03:44 PM
Also agree with Duckweed.

You keep all visible resources and lose some flat forests with little risk of losing any uncovered resources. Unfortunately Kid R I have had very nice resources such as corn, gold, etc 1 tile away from my capitals BFC too many times to count. I trust the start generator but not that much.

Interesting. Without ever having looked at the code I kind of suspect the start generator of making its most "interesting" (:eek: :eek:) decisions with coastal starts. Something about the seafood and the coastality and all that, tickles its fancy maybe. But inland like this would it really give forests instead of a resource? It often gives me trash like 2xDye instead of wheat, or silk instead of iron - infuriating but not as bad as forests for something good.

But OK yes scout 2SW, there is little to lose really.

Soirana
Sep 28, 2009, 08:02 PM
Well, moving scout revealed another gold.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5066/moregold0000.jpg

I think it solved the case - 2cows+2golds would leave city on +1 food. Also on first glance i belived 1N1NW being unforested but on close inspection of border that appeared to be lake/coast...

So i did moved. Oasis and wine was not exactly food i looked for...

Also met HC on turn 6 which makes me rather nervous. Last turn i met workboat of Issabel, given fact HC founded budhism this does not promise super easy diplo either.

Land:
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5559/southc.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/719/northc.jpg

Luckily that oasis speeded up research so i think BW next. If that scout does not survive i will probably need make another.

Sian
Sep 28, 2009, 11:51 PM
meh ... other than the gold that capital doesn't look to tasty ... i'd proberly farm the three grasslands around the lake and go for a Production city on it, and hope for cottageable land to the west/southwest, the river over there look promising

Jehoshua
Sep 29, 2009, 12:42 AM
I agree with Sian. Id scout over near the river and find a good site there (perhaps near the stone if scouting reveals a good site).

PaulisKhan
Sep 29, 2009, 01:01 AM
Pop 5 working 2 cows, 2 gold and an oasis is more than enough to drive you through to Literature first while still spamming settlers and workers.

Freedom
Sep 29, 2009, 01:39 AM
Pop 5 working 2 cows, 2 gold and an oasis is more than enough to drive you through to Literature first while still spamming settlers and workers.

And then what's he gonna do with that capital? :lol:

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 02:09 AM
Capital's fine imo, 2 gold shouldn't be underestimated. Working 2 cow 2 gold 1 oasis is fine early game.3 tiles can be farmed immed for +4 growth early mid game. The city has decent production of it's own so it's not necessary to whip it constantly.

Since the gold helps mainly with early research and there's ivory nearby you have some extra options if you're boxed in.

Killroyan
Sep 29, 2009, 02:18 AM
Some people are hard to satisfy I have to say. 2 gold, 2 cows, wine, an oasis, lake start, 5grassland. Farm 2 grassland, grow to size 9 and you will have a very strong production center with enough commerce. At size 5 you will already have 12 hammers, food to grow and 16 extra commerce. What is not to like with this capital??? You guys are spoiled, I tell you, spoiled :p

Sian
Sep 29, 2009, 03:09 AM
well ... doesn't like starts with fairly little food

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 04:58 AM
The cows are fine for worker/settler build purposes with output of 6. The enormous commerce bonus more than compensates for the fact that you can't whip the capital which often isn't such a great idea anyway without a granary. This capital doesn't need the whip with it's natural production.

I think the capital is way above average, the rest of the land isn't bad either but it'll take some time to make all those green and brown tiles without rivers productive. Hope to find some good tiles near the river.

shyuhe
Sep 29, 2009, 08:27 AM
I generally prefer irrigated corn over gold, but double gold is good too. Agree with others, farm the capital after the special tiles. I'd try to put a city near the river to the SW to discourage HC settling. Then stone if there are other good tiles near it.

Soirana
Sep 29, 2009, 08:29 AM
to 2680BC [i promised to crawl remember]

Well that scout survived and managed to dodge barb archers up to now...

Issy of course founded hindu and my neighbors already have hot feelings towards each other.

Well, i went for BW and found any complains about cap were very wrong. It had nice grassland copper. Honestly it is very good.

I dropped second worker on size three [managing to persuade myself count oasis as improved]. Stopped here.

I was planing put settler 1W of rice [although HC and his terraces makes cow next to impossible to gain.] Can't say i like land [in quality and potential quantity] very much.

My plan of actions : - tech writing, worker one chops>roads, worker tow mines copper>roads. Guess i will need some fast axes to deal with barbs...

Land overview:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3381/civ4screenshot0000.jpg

Neighborhood:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6083/civ4screenshot0001o.jpg

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 08:39 AM
You need to hurry with those settlers. I wouldn't totally rule out an axerush or maybe a phant/cat rush in this case. Otherwise you won't have that much land and it won't be that easy to accumulate more later since Huyna figures to be quite advanced.

Soirana
Sep 29, 2009, 08:57 AM
With overflow first one should be in 8 turns. Chop cuts a bit more.

Axe rush.... HC is not yet in slavery. Last thing i want is to found out diety AI has copper in middle of preparation.

Cats+phants... Tell me that works if your deity boosted target has elephants? I did such tricks on immortal, but that is different story.

Yes, overall future is not very shiny.

bestsss
Sep 29, 2009, 09:02 AM
go for axe, you won't regret it. on the screenshot it's visible HC has copper.

Soirana
Sep 29, 2009, 09:10 AM
i could do something creative with that copper...

bestsss
Sep 29, 2009, 09:19 AM
yeah like the statue of liberty... or internet :D

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 09:40 AM
Not such a problem that HC has phants is it? Longbows is much more of a problem but your 2 golds may enable you to strike before HC has longbows. Production is more of a limitation than research.

I don't see HC copper as a big problem as well, axes don't defend so much better than archers. It's your own production capacity that's important. Don't say you have to play this way but HC is very close and you just won't have that much breathing space.

bestsss
Sep 29, 2009, 09:51 AM
Usually I like to rush HC, he tends to build a couple of wonders instead of spamming units. The capital has outstanding production capacity and enough forests to burn into a rush. There is not much good land, low food overall. The only thing to consider is that HC might have chariots, so supporting spears might be necessary.

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 11:08 AM
I can't read the save but from screenshots i'd certainly scout and i would probably do it also because Izzy wherever she is won't interfere on HC's behalf. Normally axe rush would be better but with this amount of early research maybe cats/phants is safer.

If there are some extra good spots to be settled i'd go cats/phants maybe ultimately deciding to go peaceful if i'd get 6 good cities (no less).If expanding room is out after 3 cities already better go for for him immed.

Duckweed
Sep 29, 2009, 04:24 PM
Axe rush in deity is usually not favorable. WEs + cats war would be suitable in this map. Supported by 2 gold in capital, your WEs and cats will be online very early. You just need to reserve most forests for fastest war preparation. 15 cats + 15 WEs can win the war even facing LBs. One benefit of WE war is that you war when your economy is stable (usually already have Alpha, Currency, CoL) so that your economy will recover very soon and you will be working on mature cities from your target.

Soirana
Sep 29, 2009, 07:23 PM
to 1920BC

Well, i dropped second city such way as i could get damn cows in first ring.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7436/gondar.jpg

Barbarians were not so big problem... Although it was like always - the moment you drop second city you get party going into your land...

Feel rather bad cause has not improved second gold yet...

Not sure what i want to settle next. I could potentially try blocking southwards but wheat+horse+8xtundra is not a super city...
Another option is 2S of rice, rather food poor but, well, i need to claim elephants. [alternatively i could try borrow cows from barbarians...]

Guess i could use open borders with HC and a bit of scouting of his land [at least some use of that scout who refused to die]

Also i got another religious guy up where... Somehow Saladin has no religion yet...

Regarding saves. Guess i am to used to BUG interface... Luckily Dan's tool creates automatic wordbuilder save:lol:[and saves yourself from spoiling on load too] . I reopened it and saved without mod for convenience of mine critics.

Dirk1302
Sep 29, 2009, 09:21 PM
@Duckweed,

Axe rush just like chariot rush can be done sometimes but you have to be very fast meaning resource in bfc. I remember a game from ~ 1/2 year ago where i chariot rushed Shaka, you did too iirc. we had horses in bfc then. Maybe we were Egypt :lol: , can't remember

This map seems more suitable for a phant/cat attack. Reasonable opportunity window as well.

bestsss
Sep 30, 2009, 03:28 AM
>>I reopened it and saved without mod for convenience of mine critics.
The BUFFY mod is just ok, no problems there :D. This new save has no technologies researched, though. I shadowed the games, so I am not telling anything before you play a bit more.

RRRaskolnikov
Sep 30, 2009, 04:05 AM
Can you settle next to northern incan ivory and culture steal the tile before the war is started? it looks like possible on one of your earlier pic. Not much food, but cow/ivory/gold can make you some workers, shorten even more the time to elephants, and more importantly prevent the apparition of Incan phants... You prolly have thought at that but just in case...

Good luck with this... looks like a hard one ;) (masochist map again? :lol:)

Soirana
Sep 30, 2009, 06:59 AM
looks like a hard one ;) (masochist map again? :lol:)
no ijust love caps with two gold and get constantly lost at point of settling third city
:lol::lol::lol:

Soirana
Oct 01, 2009, 01:38 PM
to 350BC charge of elephants part one.

I got carried away a bit towards end, but things look lot of brighter...

I used Gondar for good to get Academy in 975BC. Not the best date in world but will do.

Arround 900BC HC learned Alphabet...
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2122/alphao.jpg

Some time later i traded for it. Did not like feeding him techs [and did not like HA later on] but my bravery had limits. Used Izzy and Saladin to backfill a bit, especially since i learned that izzy is on diffferent landmass so sailing gave nice trade routes.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1999/izzyc.jpg

Meanwhile i teched HBR>Maths>Construction preparinmg cities for production
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2572/cityone.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7938/citytwo.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2210/citythree.jpg

525AD i felt having enough for DOW [well, less than 15+15 but i was not facing longbows either...]
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4771/doweq.jpg

Arround 450BC i was asked to convert to hindu, seeing Saladin already did that i happily did.

375BC
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3876/soza.jpg
Well, steles everywhere and SoZ on the right side..

Few turns later i cleared middle of exincan empire:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7608/gains.jpg

I actually got some contrattacks this turn + there is mini stack of incans near SE barb city, which can not decide that they want to do... Adding fact i have nearly zero healthy units...
Well, i took ten turn peace for Aesthetics. From what i can figure on trade screen HC already has literature.... Would be nice for him to build that wonder but i can really live without it.

I finished currency on spoild of war and started on CoL for cheap curthauses as i feel they will be needed soon.

Don't know i see only two keepable cities left [and one of them is on rice:(]. Northern peak will be needed to be resettled [and yes i managed to keep cities such way as i am missing goldmine - told you got carried away].
If i get rid of Huyana this looks at least playable to some chance...

Oh, and i get shiny shiny:
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3990/shrinej.jpg

bestsss
Oct 01, 2009, 02:49 PM
Very well done!

>>If i get rid of Huyana this looks at least playable to some chance...
I think you can't lose the game from now on. Actually I think you will have to put some effort to lose.
The best thing is that you have the same religion as the zealots (they have the same religion), for that reason in my shadow I had to build the Shwedagon Pagoda and stay in free religion till the rest of the game, no sweet pacifism. Finish HC off and you will be set.

On a side note: if Izzy founds either Taoism or Islam she will spread and adopt it, so you might have to switch to free religion. I hate when Izzy gets late religion and she is a neighbor of mine. Doh my bad I thought Saladin founded Hinduism, not Izzy. Even better.

Duckweed
Oct 01, 2009, 04:55 PM
You may start another game now.;) Imo most games are determined ~1AD.

JBossch
Oct 01, 2009, 05:28 PM
Very nice job but I disagree that the game is over. Coming from someone who is still pretty spotty on Deity, I have lost games even after a good rush. If an AI takes out another, they will easily be competitive with you. If not, maybe you are set but it happens on Deity all the time.

Soirana
Oct 01, 2009, 05:57 PM
Well, Saladin is up to 12 cities already... and looks like expanding [probably on barbarians]. I do not feel save here [if i ever do on Deity], but i definetely can stop posting saves each hundred years and cut a bit on images...

obsolete
Oct 01, 2009, 07:38 PM
Whilst a city with 3 food might be nice on this level i think go for commerce and settle in place.

LOL, counting a cow-plot as a whole food source is not really an advisable tactic. Also, I'm surprised with all the input the OP was getting, no one mentioned to him he had one of those infamouse bugged-starts. I bet you he was using the latest patch.

Dirk1302
Oct 02, 2009, 05:52 AM
Why is the start bugged? Well at least the go for phant attack advice was sound. Agree with Duckweed that the game is probably won here. If you're as big as the biggest ai at this point in the game you should be able to win it.

Soirana
Oct 02, 2009, 07:40 AM
I'm surprised with all the input the OP was getting, no one mentioned to him he had one of those infamouse bugged-starts

From that i understand on starting location mechanics - if you see no river games considers it be good.
Which means 5+ resources. Well, i guess it might be plain cow, plain cow, alumnium, coal, uranium... Still have not seen such thing...

Freedom
Oct 02, 2009, 02:04 PM
LOL, counting a cow-plot as a whole food source is not really an advisable tactic. Also, I'm surprised with all the input the OP was getting, no one mentioned to him he had one of those infamouse bugged-starts. I bet you he was using the latest patch.

Fresh water, 4+ resources, at least 1 food resource (actually 2)... doesn't look bugged to me :confused:

Soirana
Oct 06, 2009, 08:16 PM
To 225AD:

225BC- finished CoL, start working towards music beeline [thinking back straight for CS could have been better]
100BC redeclare on incas
50BC- get more cities

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5236/onekf.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1591/twocm.jpg


25AD- AP gets built, okay i must put reminder to myself build some hindu temples, monasteries once i am done with granaries and half priced curthauses.

50AD-get GA from music- remove mysticism in order to start trades on religion part, well HC did not built Great library, but he built great lighthouse instead.
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3781/bingog.jpg
:goodjob: Huyana in ensuring i won't get broke. Well, i have les and less doubts about mine chances...

75AD- get marble in trade from Issy.... maybe Great Library still can be done...
125AD- Literature - put Cuszco from wealth to GLib [i built wealth few turns in order not top worry about of chops dropping a bit early].

150Ad- capture NE barb city
200AD- Glibrary in Cuszco.... Izzy vasalizes under Saladin.... Mmmm, that is a problem. First they have 20cities together, second i will have harder time getting them to friendly due to vassal garbage. [Probably i either need to do some 'fair' trades or consider theocracy, i currently have +10 on spain which is not enough...].
225Ad- burned Vilcas since it was neither good nor coastal, and that stone was in my culture zone anyway. Called peace with HC once again this time taking CS... [i actualy teched a bit in it on zero slider before HC had it...]

Since most of mine cities come out of revolts use artist for golden age and fix civics into beareau and oorganized. I am at -2 turns to philo...

Next plan is university of Sankore and start working towards lib seriously...

The only problem is I am about to hit Izzabella's limit of fearing of mine advancement... Not very good time as I think it is clearly time to swap Aesthetics-Music line for something good.

Tech situation:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/911/tech.jpg

Soirana
Oct 18, 2009, 04:13 AM
To 1130Ad. Scrapped some notes from few playing sessions.

I went on with teching Philo and on 275AD- founded taoism in that ex barb city. DR went to Saladin but he nicely stayed hindu.

350Ad- get prophet [few others followed later, bad HC diluting my GP poll] out of Cuszco, after some thinking settle him in shrine city.

400AD- finally get Issy to friendly through vassal crap. [Well, she was on +11 rather long time, simply Sal took time to feel religious brotherhood deep enough].

425AD- Brennus sailed in picking me as he deadly enemy. Meh, will need to see if he gets full hands.

500AD- exited Huyana from his poor existance. Refounded city obn cape, and it is still fighting for clams vs Spain [currently 48% mine:mad:]

520Ad- get GS [will bulb liberalism tad later]
580AD-Sankore [whipped since both Sal and issy had paper and they seem to be in love with religious economy...]

590AD - lib into nationalism, not very creative, but i wanted golden age and really ws not sure how long marble will last [that trade is still active, actually so i am building few hindu mandirs]

800AD - Taj done, Issy gets circumnavigation bonus [at least not somethone like brenus, i got england on map and on that moment they seem be religiousless so contacting them seemed to be okay, especially in hopes obtaining Astro rather soon]

After that i went PP>Constitution>Demo to get towards emancipation. [I had zero wish to go on sailing rampage, rather prefering peacefully play space instead] Did not worked as good as i hoped as Sal went close route reaching Demo few turns later. Somehow no one wanted to tech SM despite i believed they will go for it...

Well, i binned hopes of getting SoL and built it basically as better variant of commerce, when after all these prophets i got GE... Afterwards i thought about saving him for corps. Still making 13 specs swing [13 for me and 15 not working for Sal] is not that bad. [Rushed SoL in cae you doubt].

Currently i am finalising Communism for Great person and hopefully Kremlin [in case i will need to invade someone on later day, although i have some hammer city with HE].

Tech wise i ma keeping up via some trinagular trades. [Stupid AI's moved into mercantilism once again and difirently from my hindu buddies i am not spiritual].

Guess after cottages kicks in [and probably after moving capital] I should be able to breath a bit easier. I also built a bunch of espionage buildings forseeing need to stop Saladin launching at some point. So far it does not look like someone aiming for culture.


Few pics:
Saladin land - surprisngly very little cottages which makes me happy:
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3096/civ4screenshot0007.jpg


Techs - after trading communism should crawl back to parity [surprisngly 800 beakers i pull now seems to be barely enough to stay in]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3413/civ4screenshot0001.jpg

Statue of liberty [probably wasted GE]:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4315/civ4screenshot0000t.jpg

Demo:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8343/civ4screenshot0002v.jpg

mmm... second in gold and production. Good enough i guess.

Edit: Well, since churchill decided to be taoist and brenus likes his own religion, i signed defensive pact with hinduists. [Although Sal send few privateers on mine coast]

Dirk1302
Oct 18, 2009, 05:59 AM
Time to mobilize and kick some weaklings.

bestsss
Oct 18, 2009, 06:18 AM
very early liberalism.
have you decided what you do? domination, space, culture?

Soirana
Oct 18, 2009, 07:16 AM
Time to mobilize and kick some weaklings.

I thought tech to space... Deity stacks overall is not super tasty. unless you meant kicking my own ass...

bestsss
Oct 18, 2009, 07:32 AM
I'd rather kill Saladin (not 1st, though) and secure a win than gamble on space.
Just make sure Saladin doesn't get some ninja-diplo victory (he won't touch UN himself but AP is still a bit of risk)

Dirk1302
Oct 18, 2009, 08:16 AM
@Soirana, i agree with not taking on Sal atm that would be a very risky move this stage of the game. but look how backwards Ghenghis is. Churchill doesn't have gunpowder atm. Brennus has chemistry but is falling behind too. Especially Ghenghis/Churchill is more or less free land. I see time and time again that players are reluctant to build some boats to attack an ai that's not bordering them. Look at ultimate challenge pt3 Liz in my sig at the end of the thread. Typical situation very tasty backward island,i built some boats and enhanced my empire with some 15 cities in 20 turns. Had to take on a much bigger ai than Sal is here late game but with >25 cities you can always win the endgame.

Teching space might be possible but you are not exactly out researching Sal atm. Also while 730 bpt 1130 Ad may look like great it's really not more than average this stage in the game. You probably built Oxford already so there's not that much scope for enhancing your current science rate, Sal will probably improve his science rating some more and he is already faster than you are. Taking backward ais is so much easier.

Soirana
Oct 18, 2009, 09:06 AM
Also while 730 bpt 1130 Ad may look like great

Does not look great honestly. That is why i am worried for heading towards space.

AS extra 10-15 cities go. Let me think a bit - distance +colonial expense vs fact that i already built FP and versailies sits in Arabia. I will try calculating land tiles - in particular if i kill all other dudes [there does not seem to be any barb lands according to latest spanish maps:)] split my spiritual friends and eliminate Issy... Well if that is not enough i'd rather play space.

Dirk1302
Oct 18, 2009, 09:21 AM
Well 730 bpt 1130 AD is not bad either probably around average. As for 15 extra cities you go state prop of course. As for winning when you have 25 cities ~1600 AD you mobilize them tech flight or laser if Sal's very advanced and take him on. Scenario that comes up often: Last ai's very advanced, he has to complete fibers, fusion etc. You tech to laser/composites while he's busy then attack him. If he's even more advanced you can sometimes wait till the ship is launched then take his capital. Capital has to be near the coast however. Alternatively you go full science after taking Churchill/Ghenghis. With State prop and some banks you'll have > 2000 bpt in no time.

bestsss
Oct 18, 2009, 09:27 AM
Soriana, you are researching communism. No colonial expenses, no distance from capital, strong prod. Like I told Saladin would not touch UN (mass media, that's it), so you'd be safe from bumping out of it.

Soirana
Oct 18, 2009, 09:29 AM
Well 730 bpt 1130 AD is not bad either probably around average.

I meant in comparison to AI.... I actually used every trick in my tech whoring book too keep up with Saladin.

Looking at his land i guess that shrine [+40 i guess] with full mods that is killing. He basically has no empire wide expenses.

And no problems - Meca is coastal:lol:.

Soirana
Oct 18, 2009, 09:31 AM
Soriana, you are researching communism. No colonial expenses, no distance from capital, strong prod.

Goes to calculate workshops.... [not much....] guess i can plow these harmfull cottages away...

bestsss
Oct 18, 2009, 09:46 AM
You can keep the cottages and rush buy (in the end) if you have to. The new lands won't have them and they will need production the most for infra. Plus, you will get good production there without feeling the pain to bulldozer or wait for cottages.

You can convert the cottages too if you need when start amassing troops. And yes, Mecca is coastal, so no trouble to stop Saladin. I think you can reach it from your own land (can't remember) by bombers.

Most likely you won't be able to have Cristo Redentor for extra flexibility.

Duckweed
Oct 18, 2009, 02:28 PM
Assume that you are still sharing religions with Saladin and Izzy, the fact that your tech is still behind them atm suggests that you probably have more room for improvement of your diplomacy.

Soirana
Oct 19, 2009, 10:15 AM
Assume that you are still sharing religions with Saladin and Izzy, the fact that your tech is still behind them atm suggests that you probably have more room for improvement of your diplomacy.

at least i will know that to work on....

Duckweed
Oct 19, 2009, 11:37 AM
This is the GNP of my empire of 1000 AD of my 1st warmonger challenge game, less than 1/2 of the average, ~1/3 of yours. You should be more than satisfied of you current GNP. ;)

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/Duckweed_/1000ADGNP.jpg

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/Duckweed_/Toku1000ADTech.jpg

The key is to achieve advanced military tech enough early to make a kill, and you have done it successfully with a WE/cat war. That's why I said your game was won already. You'll have no problem to go either space (then beeline to internet, Saladin has no chance to launch before you) or domination (start conquering from the weakest AI).

Soirana
Oct 21, 2009, 10:46 AM
To 1310AD- basically doing major terraforming.

1130AD- hire few scientists to finish Communism in turn. Cancel all worker actions in order to rework some terrain.

1140Ad- decide trade away communism right now, as my plan is reach plants and factories ASAP and when try to mop some backward AI [more or less].
Issabella splits from Saladin easing my future [although their defensive pact is still meh.]
Start on Steam power.
1160AD-Spain gets Kremlin--- at least not Saladin. Well, you can't beat GE rush anyway.
1210AD Issy kisses arabian ring again [meanwhile i improve tech rate to 900+]... Maybe space was not that bad idea.
1220AD- another GS is born launch third GA in order to fix civics [I actually ended with emancipation and state property. Guess could shave simply countered unhapiness with HR instead, well, old bad habbits die hard.]

1270AD- done with AL, start biology more or less for trade [and somehow mage mass unhealthiness]

1280AD- Spiritual idiots on northern island decide to stop trading with Brenus
Great i just lost more health and 10gpt...
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3052/civ4screenshot0003k.jpg

I finally get these clams from izzy... [need to squeeze lighthouse in build orders]

1300AD- end of golden age. Wow, with SP, shrine and one very marginal city building wealth i have zero upkeep costs.

I meant this worse than marginal city
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4495/civ4screenshot0004n.jpg

After some donated misionairies [since bastards hapilly live in theology] shrine finally kicked off
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6875/civ4screenshot0008n.jpg
Well, it does build research only for turn to reach Biology turn faster.

1310AD- Biology... Well, i still have not much units but these powered cities [and coastal have drydocks] should do the trick...
Alternatively i tried putting all hammers on research. Can reach 1.5K so i would not exrule going for space as this would put less stress on my hardware.

Cuzco:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1174/civ4screenshot0006.jpg
Other hammer sites are not so good, but something like 4-5 units per turn is reality.

bestsss
Oct 21, 2009, 11:24 AM
Just curious what are your present civics? Change the mines to windmills, so the city can grow and work more tiles... Doh the city is so unhealthy, it won't help w/ growing too much.

RRRaskolnikov
Oct 21, 2009, 11:32 AM
^^If you are not using the whip (I guess you won't ;)), this city is better with workshops than mils (engeeners are crap for production and you have already -6 due to health problems)...

While 1.5k beakers is nice, you have to keep AIs away from culture in deity as they will win faster this way than you can launch (usually, I am not saying you can't do it). Though I am not sure the AIs you are opposed to like culture...
In botm22, top 4 AIs had Apollo up in near 1500 ad...
I agree that space is far less time consuming and prolly less frustrating (I am thinking at you hardware too), but i would try to :hammer: here...

Good luck with your game, it's always a nice read :goodjob:

Cheers,
Ras

edit: @bestsss: that's the opposite he should do here, the city has too much food (I assume it's a production city and no whip).

Soirana
Oct 21, 2009, 12:01 PM
Just curious what are your present civics? Change the mines to windmills, so the city can grow and work more tiles... Doh the city is so unhealthy, it won't help w/ growing too much.

US+Beaurau+Emancipaton+State+OR.... [Don't know, i played few times with this mess on immortal, worked well, although i used cottages in cap not workshops]

Imho, food is okay. Health is not. Not something i could fix easily now. I actually thought watermilling one more farm to stop growth.

So far i see no threats culture wise. I've been piling espionage on Sal since BC so if this comes close i should be able do something.

As long as i can get internet [and ironwork city should deal with it] i should fly away to the stars.

Soirana
Oct 21, 2009, 04:23 PM
teaser shot

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3774/launchs.jpg

No, i did not kill them alll:mischief:. Maybe next time

bestsss
Oct 21, 2009, 05:04 PM
Excellent job! Still no blood spilled... x.x

>>US+Beaurau+Emancipaton+State+OR
Indeed, what a mess.
---
I shadowed the game and went axe rush to culture victory in 1830 w/ Sushi, Creative Con, Eiffel, Broadway, Kremlin, Hollywood and only a single great artist born just 2-3 turns before the end. Got Taj and 4 consecutive extended golden ages which put me well in the tech. lead but I was too lazy to go for conquest.

You had far faster global tech. rate, thanks to the common religion.


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/100/victoryw.jpg

Dirk1302
Oct 21, 2009, 05:43 PM
Apparently space was easy :goodjob:. It might be helpful if you sometimes put up a save besides the screenshots. Screenshots are there to give a quick outlook of what happened but can never fully replace a save.

RRRaskolnikov
Oct 22, 2009, 02:00 AM
Congrats on being god! :goodjob: How do you feel?

Nice game bestsss!

Soirana
Oct 22, 2009, 08:18 AM
Congrats on being god! :goodjob: How do you feel?


Same as before. Two gold cap is not something that happens each day.


Some more pictures and writeup:

So i decided to go peacefully while piling espionage on Saladin just in case.

Privateers were sort of problem. Luckily Ai could not use them properly and these were just tasty experience:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6323/privatr.jpg
Must say sory for ironclads. They can be useful vs AI.

I actually moved cap to cottaged place:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3954/newcap.jpg
mmm... and it started as one of three hammer cities to kill inca.

I wonderspammed a bit:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/38/wonder3.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6499/wonder2f.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1874/wonder1.jpg

Looking back should have built Cristo instead as switching from emancipation into caste late game would have been good.

At arround 1500AD Churschill had full hands so i built some units. Soon i saw some galleons moving in between me and Arabia and...

And our brother Saladin[also in full hand mode] declared on Churchill tearing away his frigates and ships of line. Stack landed in Arabia:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7822/stackk.jpg
Scary stuff :lol: considering i was mass mobilizng tack under railroad network:lol:.

The best part i was not even dragged into war.

Well, surprisingly Saladin made some progrees on England. So i had to bribe him away.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5606/peacea.jpg

He redeclared later and i had to bribe him away again,. since despite all prognosis he built United nations. In case Churchill had capped he might got enough votes.
As now he tried that few turns till victory
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1441/lastcall.jpg
not a chance.

Techs in end. That was not close race:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5570/techsinend.jpg
The fact that Sal dropped researching at one point going for culture and after got involved in wars helped.

On other hand reaching stars in 1808 is mine personal best. [hindu tech fest helped a lot].

Now i just need to win without gold in initial cross. Guess part 02 coming soon.

bestsss
Oct 22, 2009, 10:25 AM
Mighty amazed by Saladin researching mass media and obsoleting his own AP.
Very good research and game control.

Btw good that this time you didn't try to get extra diplo-points :D

hunterai
Oct 22, 2009, 11:18 PM
Congratulation!! Soirana :)
Looking forward to part II