Anyone ever think of doing a scenario on Operation Enduring Freedom?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13212

Nice job! But that's not Operation Enduring Freedom, that's Operation Iraqi Freedom. Seems like you have the talent though. If you're interested in working on it, I'm just starting out on it.

I have thought about it but the opponents are not as balanced as in WWII. One-sided or Terrorist wars don't really interest me, either.

The closest I may get to it would be a NATO vs Warsaw Pact (circa 1984). But that will be well after this Mod I ma working on.

Well it would be balanced, just not in a traditional sense. With the right scripting the Taliban would be quite formidable (i.e invisible unless seen by a U-2 or RC-135) or a gauge that would depict the amount of favor the coalition enjoys with the locals.

I'm not sure that Civ is really equipped to properly simulate either of these conflicts. Civ can do a conventional war justice, but I don't think assymetrical wars translate well to Civ. IMO you're going to end up in a situation where as the American players and their allies its going to be far too easy or another where its virtually unwinnable depending on how you set it up.

Best of luck whoever tries it though. I'd certainly like to see such a scenario succeed.

Give the Taliban dirt-cheap units but high maintenance costs so they can't build a huge army. Make the USA airlift in their units from a separate location to minimize how fast they can bring in reinforcements. Is there a way to give a unit high attack bonuses that do not apply to defense? That would be a good way to balance the weaker Taliban fighters.

Is there a way to give a unit high attack bonuses that do not apply to defense? That would be a good way to balance the weaker Taliban fighters.Increasing the number of first strikes. In my mod, I have given the German Panzers more than the average initial first strikes.

I've been giving this some thought...

I would say that NATO should definitely be unable to capture cities. When they do, it should automatically go to the Afghan national government. Don't put them on the same team though. This would make them allies, but it would mean that NATO would not be able to see into cities they don't have troops in (or use air recon over obviously).

A Terrorist spy unit for the Taliban could have a number of spy missions that apply only for the Taliban. This could include attacks that will undermine support for the Afghan national government and NATO. The AI probably won't handle this particularly well though. I think you're going to have a tough time in general getting the AI to act effective as the Taliban.

But I think the biggest problem with this mod is the victory conditions. How does NATO win this scenario? For the Taliban, I would say that they must simply prevent a NATO victory before the game's end date. The end date would represent the maximum amount of time the Western country's populations will continue to support the war. So let's say that's 10 years... If NATO hasn't accomplished its goals in 10 years, it loses. But what about that NATO victory? Simply capturing all the Taliban cities shouldn't be sufficient because we know darn well holding territory has never spelled the end of an insurgency. It could be tied to some kind of building requirement...

Extremist groups like the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, etc. tend to thrive in areas with high unemployment, low standards of living, poor governance, and low literacy rates. So if each city has some kind of confidence meter that is affected by both buildings as well as safety (num units, time since last terrorist attack, etc.), then the NATO player would have to not only capture all the Taliban-controlled cities, but they will have to get Support (i.e. Culture) in each city to a certain level in all cities. You can change the cultural levels names to be appropriate like Wavering, Confident, Stalwart, etc. So the Taliban can undermine this support not only by attacking cities with guerilla fighters, but also by sending out Terrorist spy units to blow up those support-increasing buildings and sabotaging the production of them. And even if they don't control any cities, they will continue to be able to undermine the NATO effort and delay their victory. Every X number of turns, the Taliban could get free Terrorist units from each Afghan city that have support levels below some set support level. So building up the Afghan cities will reduce the number of Terrorist units the Taliban gets.

Increasing the number of first strikes. In my mod, I have given the German Panzers more than the average initial first strikes.
First strikes apply both for attacking and defending units. The only way to get the attack strength up without changing the defense would be either 1) add attack percent changes for all terrains, or 2) use an SDK mod that adds flat attack/defense percent changes.

The index is a great idea, I was thinking of a WHAM meter myself. I'd need some really skillful help in order to pull this off though.

First strikes apply both for attacking and defending units. The only way to get the attack strength up without changing the defense would be either 1) add attack percent changes for all terrains, or 2) use an SDK mod that adds flat attack/defense percent changes.What some users have experienced in my mod is some units suffer no damage and I assumed that this was because of the the amount of first strikes the unit had.

What some users have experienced in my mod is some units suffer no damage and I assumed that this was because of the the amount of first strikes the unit had.
Yes, but that had nothing to do with whether the unit was attacking or defending. I would assume that most of the people making these observations were attacking. I mean, if you look at Archers, they get +1 First Strikes, which is pointless for a unit designed to defend cities if it's only applied when attacking.

The index is a great idea, I was thinking of a WHAM meter myself. I'd need some really skillful help in order to pull this off though.
Well, the good news is that you won't need to do any SDK work for this since going with my proposed idea would only mean changing the name of Culture to Support or something like that.

In the XML, you'd simply modify this code:


<VictoryInfo>
<Type>VICTORY_CULTURAL</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_VICTORY_CULTURAL</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_VICTORY_CULTURAL_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<bTargetScore>0</bTargetScore>
<bEndScore>0</bEndScore>
<bConquest>0</bConquest>
<bDiploVote>0</bDiploVote>
<bPermanent>0</bPermanent>
<iPopulationPercentLead>0</iPopulationPercentLead>
<iLandPercent>0</iLandPercent>
<iMinLandPercent>0</iMinLandPercent>
<iReligionPercent>0</iReligionPercent>
<CityCulture>CULTURELEVEL_LEGENDARY</CityCulture>
<iNumCultureCities>3</iNumCultureCities>
<iTotalCultureRatio>0</iTotalCultureRatio>
<iVictoryDelayTurns>0</iVictoryDelayTurns>
<VictoryMovie>ART_DEF_MOVIE_VICTORY_CULTURAL</VictoryMovie>
</VictoryInfo>


In <iNumCultureCities>, change 3 to however many Afghan cities you think should be firmly NATO supporters to declare victory. Since it's a scenario, you know exactly how many cities there are, so you can put a hard number here. I would suggest requiring that they all be because otherwise you could win without actually having defeated the Taliban in every city.

That is a great idea! But how would I make it so that the Taliban would gain more soldiers through low culture and make the AI avoid cultural buildings?

That is a great idea! But how would I make it so that the Taliban would gain more soldiers through low culture and make the AI avoid cultural buildings?
Why would you want the AI to avoid cultural buildings? In this case, one player's culture represents the Taliban support and the other represents the NATO/ANG support. So the less NATO support in NATO-controlled cities, the more Taliban Terrorist units might spawn in those NATO-controlled cities.

The short answer is that you'd have to do some python work (or get someone to do it) to check each city and see if it's reached a cultural level above whatever.

So let's say you have five cultural levels:

Non-Aligned
Wavering
Committed
Confident
Stalwart

I just picked five words. It's just an example. You can use whatever you want of course. But you can easily using python have the game check which NATO cities have less than say a Committed cultural level and have a Taliban Terrorist unit spawn every turn in those cities. Or every 3 turns, or whatever seems appropriate.

And if you're going to have the Afghan National Government and NATO as separate civilizations that aren't on the same team, you'd have to do a little python work also on victory conditions so that when the Afghans achieve their cultural victory, NATO is declared the winner. But considering that you will otherwise have to rely on the AI Afghan player to build the culture-producing buildings, it might be better to have NATO and the Afghans as one civ.

EDIT: On the other hand, maybe you can have them as separate civs but enable the human NATO player to buy buildings for the AI Afghan player... that would require more python work though.

Not a bad idea. I don't suppose anyone wants to work on this with me. Also, I wonder if I should include Pakistan.

Not a bad idea. I don't suppose anyone wants to work on this with me. Also, I wonder if I should include Pakistan.

I would but I am stretched just about to the breaking point with stuff I have to do as it is. I'd be happy to lend my knowledge though. Just let me know what you're struggling with. It seems like there's a lot of potential to be something really different from the typical civ game.

I don't think there should be a seperate civ for the captured cities. What I do think is that you should control them but not be able to build units in them, only buildings.

For a NATO victory I would sugjest two conditions Capture all cities in the region and Stabilise the Region.
And these would have to be done in that order.

Basicly, there should be some way of mesuring Popular Support for you in each city. You could increse it by keeping the city safe, having less troops in it, bulding schools, libraries ect.

And the condition would be that you need to capture all cities, and bring the population completely to your side. And the Taliban should do all in their power to keep this from happening.

Also, instead of a set number of years that your nation will support you as long as your losses are not high and the local populace is on your side. If the Taliban can turn them against you, and kill lots of your troops, than your nation breaks and they win.

note that Operation Enduring Freedom encompasses Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, the Maghreb, and the Phillipines. I got a bit confused.

I don't think there should be a seperate civ for the captured cities. What I do think is that you should control them but not be able to build units in them, only buildings.
Well, if you control the cities, then you're representing both NATO and the Afghans, so you should probably only be prevented from building NATO units. But you would still be able to build Afghan army units in your cities, which would not be as strong.

For a NATO victory I would sugjest two conditions Capture all cities in the region and Stabilise the Region.
And these would have to be done in that order.

Basicly, there should be some way of mesuring Popular Support for you in each city. You could increse it by keeping the city safe, having less troops in it, bulding schools, libraries ect.

And the condition would be that you need to capture all cities, and bring the population completely to your side. And the Taliban should do all in their power to keep this from happening.

Also, instead of a set number of years that your nation will support you as long as your losses are not high and the local populace is on your side. If the Taliban can turn them against you, and kill lots of your troops, than your nation breaks and they win.
Certainly those would be ideal, but my suggestions for using culture as a measure of support and completing the task before the turns run out as the condition for victory is simply to allow this to be made with as few changes as possible. A home front war support count would require quite a bit more python coding.

Well if anyone is a gifted coder, I would welcome their services.

You could always do it by simply monitoring hapynes, health, culture ect. in the conquered cities and giving the taliban the ability to spread desease, destroy buildings ect.

If you want a low tech solution how about:
Capture all cities, hold them untill they all reach N people and M culture while keeping them healthy and happy.

If you want a low tech solution how about:
Capture all cities, hold them untill they all reach N people and M culture while keeping them healthy and happy.
This is essentially what I was proposing with the idea of renaming Culture to Support. Since cities already have Culture Levels, and you can already have the game evaluate victory conditions based on having a certain number of cities at a certain Cultural Level, it provides a very easy way to do this without having to know any python. In this case, with Support as Culture, it would probably be best to have most buildings produce some culture and the most culture being produced by infrastructure buildings like Markets, Hospitals, etc. and/or military buildings like Barracks.

jbryant; i'm just wondering, weren't you making a Korean War scenario a while back?

Yeah you got it. OEF may never see the light of day either. I keep getting to a spot where the game CTD with, of course, no explanation. I did so much better at making CIV III scenarios, too bad the gaming community moved on when I really got into the swing of that!

Is OEF a scenario or a mod now?
If the last one: Did you change the artdefines_units?