Wasn't there a RPG that was based on a lot of H.G. Wells type ideas? It was set in the victorian age, but man had travelled into space and had all kinds of far fetched sci-fi gadgetry.

I think it was called "Space 1815" or something like that. Anybody know? It would make a cool scenario.

I'm pretty sure it was Space 1899. I've got a copy in one of my games closets. I'll try to dig it out. I think a Victorian Era Sci-Fi mod would be awesome. Not necessarilly a Space Setting, Lost Worlds with ancient Civs, Dinosaurs, and weird high-low tech advances (Advanced Steam Power) would also be cool and may fit in well with the Civ mechanics.

I know Steve Jackson published a bunch of GURPS sourcebooks in this (Victorian Adventure/Sci-Fi) setting and they might be worth looking into.

Thanks. It would very cool if we could get some more interested bodies involved in this and put a team together.

edit: turns out it is "Space 1889"

Are you thinking along the lines of the Civ2 Scenario? Space 1899 relies heavily on interactions with Mars and the other planets, but I think you could adapt the Ether Flyers (spacecraft) and other ideas to a large degree to fit them into the Civ3 constraints if you wanted to include them. The main problem I foresee is getting/doing the animations for the dirigibles, weird inventions, etc.

BUT I guess PTW will have the dinosaurs and Smoking Mirror is working on a series of early industrial ships, so it might not be that bad.

I think the Lost World style setting would work better than the space setting. It would be easy to adapt Aztecs and the Lost Legion into the setting.

The big issue I see is unit creation for all of the divergent technologies (but if done right this could be about the coolest mod).

You can tentatively count me in on this but I'm not sure what I can do for it yet.

Here is a Space 1889 map of Venus:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/venus-map-s.jpg

and here is the map of Mars:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/mars-map-s.jpg

The scenario could take place entirely on one or the other, as the colonial powers attempt to control the new frontier.

Conversely it could be a Lost World's type scenario, but I would rather stick with the Space 1889 idea for now, and maybe go back and do the lost world scenario afterwards. You have to figure we would be able to use a lot of the same units for both. :)

I think Mars is the more intriguing choice with the canals and vast deserts dictating movement. BUT (I always have one) the dinosaurs for Venus are probably already done. Mars would need far more native units and more work at separate or different tech trees.

The possibility of TWO OR THREE scenarios using one basic rule system presents itself though too.

Two or three scenarios based on the same rules would be cool. I think we should start on mars.

Wow, this is a great idea. I intended to immerse myself in futuristic Victoriana this weekend but I had to go on a family trip. I'll have to do it this next weekend. (work/school is a ***** [Don't know if that one shows up on the filters. I obviously don't mean it in the mysogynistic sense, so it should pass unless these things are automated]) Anyway I do have a few ideas:

Scenarios - I agree that we should do Earth, mars, and venus scenarios using the same ruleset, with some obvious differences (terrain generation being the most obvious one, aside from the pregenerated ones shown above). I say after fleshing out the rules we make two Earth scenarios, a Europe scenario and a global scenario, then move onto Venus and then mars.

civs - in the final version I'd say we should have 20 human civs, 5 martian and 5 vesuvian. Eurocentrism is obvious, and if we're not clinging to space 1889 canon and making up most things ourselves (which I hope we are) we should get really creative with the aliens. If were not clinging to the canon here's some possibilities - England, France, Russia, Spain, Prussia, Austria, Poland, America (United), America (Confederate), Mexico, Italy, Greece, Serbia, Hungary, Netherlands, and perhaps some of the larger oppressed, colonial, and otherwise non-European folks - India, China, Zululand/Nubia, one or two of the indy South American nations. Except for England and either Austria or Prussia (wherever Biz's from) all of the preexisting civs will probably need new leaders

tech - a previously said this will definitely be the hardest part to implement and the factor that makes or brakes this as a mod. I propose the four ages be "Age of Reason!" (late middle ages, and a fantastic technology or two), "Age of Industry!" (early industrial, some fantastic), "Age of Empire!" (continuation of ideas in AoI!, mostly fantastic), and "Age of Science!" (very fantastic)

units - should follow normal curve, though flying units should be much more ubiquitous (sp) - zeppileins, gyrocopters, and hovercars anyone?. Plenty of Automatons is a must (is the idea of a "plutonium golem" cool or what?). There should be as many different types of lasers in this as there are guns in normal civ, though it would be unseemly for automatons to use them (don't ask me why). This is where the civilizations will differ most by racial category (earth/mars/venus) - venus should have lots of biomonsters, including carnivourous plants, while mars should be mechanics-heavy (and have, of course, War Walkers :D )

Governments- most everything either dreampt up of or realized in the industrial ages, plus some stuff that has a victorain futurana to it - parliamentary monarchy (default gov), liberal (i.e. capitalist) democracy, ecclasiarchy (i.e. theocracy, and I have to come up with a name that's still thematic but less awkward), commonwealth (i.e. social democracy + ultra pacifist. Don't think Oliver Cromwell, he'd fall under Ecclesiarchy), communism, plutocracy, technocracy (or something more thematically named. Think of a government ruled by mad scientists), and militarism (i.e. fascism. again need to think up something more thematic) . Aliens should have a bunch of governments to call thier own, though I'm not sure if we can have different default governments by civ. the human government, from peaceful to warlike, could be like:
commonwealth -> liberal democracy -> ecclesiacracy -> communism -> military rule.
I excluded technocracy, plutocracy, and parliamentary democracy becuase they excell respectively at science, production, and sucking, though they'd all be in between liberl dem and ecclesiacracy.

Improvements and wonders - I think these should somewhat follow the normal curve, most improvements can be kept relatively the same with some name change, i.e. granary could be hydro-storage facility. Factories should come much earlier though, think early 2nd age and there should be some government-specific wonders and even buildings. Also while there shlould be pollution there should be no pollution clean-up except perhaps for the aliens - could you imagine a victorian environmentalist?

Resources and Terrain - venus should be very barbarian-heavy but also heavy in f/s/c; mars should be the opposite, especially on food. Water should be a resource on Mars. lots of new resources, esp. luxury, on Venus. Opium should really be the only new lux on Earth, though plenty of new metals should be added as strategic resources all across.

I'd be glad to throw time into this though I must warn I have no graphics skills whatsoever. I know that Kal-el is a genius at that sort of thing, but he's understandably overworked.

Also, some inspirational reading for all those interested in arousing Codeina, the muse of mods:
- Alan Moore's <a href="http://www.wildstorm.com/minisites/loeg/loeg.html">Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen</a>
- <a href="www.paradigmaonline.com">Paradigma Online</a>, a fansite for Whitewolf's Mage: the Ascension game, centered around a faction that deals with Victoriana steampunk
- <a href="www.gamerjargon.com">Gamer Jargon</a> has a bunch of steampunk terms (look under "Fumonyms" in the lefthand sidebar)
- <a href="www.heliograph.com">Heliograph Games</a> is reprinting most of the old S:1189 products. The relevant page doesn't have a plethora of info, though.
- Heliograph also has an infinitely more helpful site for its <a href="http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/steampunk.shtml">Steampunk 1920</a> line, the 1889's sequel
- Gurps <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/steampunk/">Steampunk</a>, <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/screampunk/"> screampunk</a>, <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/steamtech/>Steamtech</a>, and <a href="http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/castlefalkenstein/"> Castle Falkenstein</a>. Castle Falkenstein I think predates Space 1889 which means that its the first origins of the steampunk genre if you remove Falkenstein's supernatural elements.
- Jules Verne, Jules Verne, Jules Verne, Jules Verne

- signing out, m. uriel wasser, who has now just embarasingly established himself as the world's biggest steampunk geek, and is hoping that this site accepts html codes

P.S. - we need to work the word "rapscalion" in. It's such a fun word. Rapscalion rapscalion rapscalion.

oy - html is off. there any way to turn it on?

Wow, some good ideas there! Before we get too far ahead of ourselves though, what should be the:

starting date(s)?

tech level on Mars - for the Martians? (H.G.Wells or Space 1889, which translates ROUGHLY to 18th Century India)

Number of IMPERIAL powers for Earth? That is, the number in ALL the scenarios. I'd suggest...

Great Britain
France
Russia
Germany
United States
Japan

maybe Italy (for comic relief) or Belgium (as in Space 1889)

The rest of the civ's should go to the natives on Mars (especially as per Space 1889, there could easily be 10) or Venus, or the rest of the world on Earth.

those are great ideas! I don't know if I would call myself a genius, ... but you can feel free to do so if you want. :D

Seriously though, my computer graphics skills are somewhat limited to still images. We are going to need to find some animators who to take an interest in this project. It seems to me that Smoking Mirror might be interested in this project if we can get him to take a look at it. :) He was working on those early industrial units before, many of which were based on historical fiction.

I have reproduced your list of links, but hopefully this time they will show up as hyperlinks. ;)
Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen (http://www.wildstorm.com/minisites/loeg/loeg.html)
A fansite for Whitewolf's Mage: the Ascension game, centered around a faction that deals with Victoriana steampunk (www.paradigmaonline.com)
has a bunch of steampunk terms (look under "Fumonyms" in the lefthand sidebar) (www.gamerjargon.com)
Heliograph Games is reprinting most of the old S:1189 products. The relevant page doesn't have a plethora of info, though. (www.heliograph.com)
Heliograph also has an infinitely more helpful site for its Steampunk 1920 line, the 1889's sequel (http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/steampunk.shtml)
screampunk (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/screampunk/)
Steamtech (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/steamtech/)
Castle Falkenstein I think predates Space 1889 which means that its the first origins of the steampunk genre if you remove Falkenstein's supernatural elements. (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/castlefalkenstein/)

It should be noted that I never actually played Space 1889 or any of it's derivatives, but am very interested in the genre.

In addition to Antiochus VII's 6 core Imperial Powers, I would include China.

I also like the idea of Italy and Belgium.

Germany should be Prussia, if my history is correct.

I don't know about the oppressed states, as it seems unlikely tht they would have the requisite technology nor the necessary resources to produce the craft needed to traverse the planets. Of course if we are not going strictly by the game, and there is no reason we have to, then we can really write history any which way we please. Which means we could have a Confederate US, we could have powerful African and Native American civs, I am not sure we want to, but that can be discussed.

PtW allows for 31 civs to be played at once, but the game will really slow down towards the end, much more quickly than it does now.

You missed Steampunk by SJGames (although you did get the rest of the "series").

While the native's wouldn't start with high tech (unless it is lost tech from a previous age (maybe ERA_NONE)), they should be viable players. It shouldn't be all Earth teams chewing up the natives. The natives should be one or more teams capable of fighting back.

An idea for an outline for a guess at the "Mars" theme we might adopt:

Total Civs= 16
Imperial Powers from Earth= 6-9 (Belgium?Italy?China? - I'd drop one for sure, probably Italy first since China offers GREAT graphical possibilities and a unique culture for the age)
Nomadic civs of the desert= 2-4 hopefully with "unique" domestic animals
Decadent Canal Cultures= 5-7 based on structure and philosophy (Empire, Mercantile League, City States, etc.)
Barbarians= either strange beasts or leftover ancient technology
Lost Civ?= 0-1 A high tech civ ala H.G. Wells, one that could "wake up" at some point. It could either start awake but be very small, or be hamstrung by a lack of techs allowing UNITS or GROWTH that it could only acquire through contact. In this case inaccessible and barbarian ringed (but with a strong defense at least for the early game) to keep it from expanding too soon.

Types of Martians= 1-2 (not counting animals)
All civs but the lost one humanoid (maybe 'Elvish, etc' as per Space 1889, allowing use of Ghenghis Farbs Fantasy Leaderheads) to allow for better interaction. The lost civ could be utterly alien, personal favorites for me could be something like Wells " Tentacled Martians", Lovecrafts Crinoid "Old Ones", or Eric Frank Russells "BEMs" (with their obsession with chess!!!).

Terrain= would be standard Mars fare, with Canals replacing coastal water to allow for maritime units. Air units would be much more important including cargo carriers in the form of Zeppelins, etc. One resource to add for sure would be RUIN with very high commerce but plays out relatively quickly.

Anyway, just a thought (or more than one:) )

another possible Martian race, or possibly the barbarians, would be the green martians from Edgar Rice Burroughs' Barsoom Series, aka John Carter of Mars series.

edit: here's a site with some info on the books. (http://www.annapollard.com/~cjh5801a/Carter.htm)

Just an experiment - here's a 'Mars mod' of the basic Civ terrain - doing the canals will take a little time:)

Wonderful idea! And the Mars terrain look allready quite good.

Conerning the Civs:
Well, you should include Austria-Hungary, the so-called K.u.K.-Monarchy. Historically they where a major power at this time and some steampunk-rpgs, e.g. Castle Falkenstein, include them, too.

You should take a german civ instead of a prussian. By 1889 Germany was already united for 18 years, although it was dominated by the former prussian state very much.

That terrain looks good for a first cut. I'd suggest making in a little 'rustier' in color rather than the bright orange.

Are we thinking of one specific map for each scenario or just letting the map generator go to town? I'd ratehr see a hand tuned map.

I agree, I would like to see pre-created maps.

Mars will have to be mapped for sure (the canals will be a totally different look), and you could get away with a generated Venus I suppose but I'd like it to be more unique, maybe a series of connected inland seas with lots of jungle and swamp rather than continents. That'd make each world unique to play on in addition to the terrain.

Speaking of that, I'm willing to turn out a quick Mars terrain mod to work with but what types of terrain? On the spur of the moment I considered

Mountains as above
Hills as above
Barren rocky plains as above but derived from grassland, using the shield symbol for random Rocky terrain
Dune desert considering options here but a new graphic not the civ3 desert
Martian Swamp/Jungle to go along neglected canals
Arid plain irrigable, surrounding canals at a short distance. Probably halfway between barren and fertile
Fertile Plain Immediately along canals, probably a lush green color (again, not civ colors)
Ice Cap From Tundra but shiny white

Canals (the time killer) would be coastal water and straight. I would probably make them a dark blue. (?)

ALSO, is the terrain too orange? I can go rustier, but it'd be nice to have a baseline. Here's a pic for comparison

One last note on the color - remember you'll have to look at it for a long time. A really strong rust color is REALLY strong:)

One more demo...

Like the photo above, I'd suggest toning the color down a bit and pushing it into darker browner tone

Yes, not soooo Orange please.

Yeah, a bit browner would be better.

Why not have a map that is 120x256 and have two planets on it.

On one side you would have a 120x120 map of the earth then you would have 16 tiles of water, which you could set to cost a lot of movement points, and then another 120x120 map of mars.

You could make the planets smaller if you wanted more space between the two.

nice job Antiochus. I kinda like the first one better; easier on the eyes.
The two worlds/one map is an interesting idea, though it would be impossible to randomly generate. Also I'd like to wait to see what the map restrictions on PtW are like - this would be a good idea if we could have maps up to say, size 400. All three planets would make for a great scenario.
I've been working on the tech tree, with any luck I'll have it posted by tomorrow night (probably LATE tommorow night if I work on various other crap, like the governments. I think pretty much anything else would require heavy-duty graphical production. Suppose I'll work on improvements afterward...

One more pic before I spin this off on its own thread (since I'm gobbling up general idea space here) - the first feeble attempt at a canal bank is in the lower right corner.

(Graphics are sharper in the game but I cut this file a little smaller)

That color is much better, I think you've nailed it.

Alright, I have a problem. I made a mod to obtain pictures of my newly minted tech trees and made a lot of general changes, but when I tried to load it, the game crashes when it reaches the 100% line, after you pick your map sizes and leader. Possible solutions?
I'll try and get my rough drafts (of the first 2 ages, and my very rough draft of the third) in within the hour in some other format (word/paint, something like that). Let me know what you think.

ah, fark. does anybody know how to convert a .bmp file into a gif?

Actually, I have another idea for the canals - why not just let the rivers act as canals and disable any irrigation away from water? After all, on a desert planet like Mars with little food irrigation will be at prime importance and civilizations will be forced to live along the rivers (and fight for control of them)

It all depends on whether you want any transportation by water.
The rivers wouldn't allow that. Plus, the rivers wouldn't give the straight 'canal' look.

I actually don't think it will be too hard to program in, if someone gets the time AND a good graphic idea for the look (for which I still lack inspiration). Of course, you'll have to make your own maps to get the full effect.

While I'm here, DOES anyone have a good idea? My prototype still sits at a functional stage, and there are a LOT of variations to put in. But I think this size isn't unreasonable once I flesh out the 'feel'.