Hello all,
In a scenario I'm working on, I'd like to have my civ's broken up into small groups surrounded by a vast ocean which can't be safely navigated until you get a certain tech. What I'd like to find out is, how big can I make the map (using either the regular editor or Steph's)? The size of the map will determine how many groups of civ's I have in the end.

Hello all,
In a scenario I'm working on, I'd like to have my civ's broken up into small groups surrounded by a vast ocean which can't be safely navigated until you get a certain tech. What I'd like to find out is, how big can I make the map (using either the regular editor or Steph's)? The size of the map will determine how many groups of civ's I have in the end.

Not 100% on this but I thought it was 255x255 is the largest. I could certainly be wrong though.

EDIT: I take that back. It looks like maps can be at least 300 tiles or more in max size.

I think that the largest map size you can have is 326 by 326. However, remember with a large map and a lot of civilizations, the between turn time can get to be somewhat long.

:DCards in the max size can be found here! ;)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=29279

a little one picture of me!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230913&stc=1&d=1255421065
:)
regards
Wotan49

It's 362x362 tiles in Conquests. On a map like that, expect to see a huge increase in turn calculation time when you discover ocean navigation.

The only way I've found to make a 362x362 map is in Map Tweaker. Once it's made the regular editor can handle it.

The only way I've found to make a 362x362 map is in Map Tweaker.
In the standard editor, you can also change the size of a default map size to 362x362 in the rules menu and then generate a blank map.

Thank you all for responding. I think that 256x256 will probably be more than enough for what i need. However, in response to the turn-time calculation issue, what difference does it make if i have fewer civ's than the max? I had no intention of adding in 30 civs for this mod, probably no more than 12-15, but I see that Navigation has something to do with it? Is this somehow tied to the "Sea trade over ocean" etc. flags?

Its the trade network. Eliminate or reduce trade by sea and air and you'll be fine.

Each turn, the game calculates all possible trade routes between every pair of cities on the map. For huge maps with lots of ocean, there will be thousands of potential routes between coastal cities.

What if I don't allow sea trade at all (like by never checking the "allow trade over sea/ocean" flag), and just use air trade, will it help or just make things worst?

That flag also negates the "Sinks in Ocean" flag on units, so if you do that then keep in mind that your coastal ships will never be able to traverse ocean safely. If your scenario does not include aircraft, then replacing harbors with coastal "airports" may be interesting. Of course, they can't be blockaded.

If your scenario does not include aircraft, then replacing harbors with coastal "airports" may be interesting. Of course, they can't be blockaded.

Blockade runners :lol:

EDIT: I meant that jokingly (obviously), but now the more I think about it the more I realize you could make the airport something like 'pirate harbor' or something along those lines; ie, something where trade would happen regardless of an enemy blockade or naval bombardment.

You could even allow the naval units to 'rebase' onto airports (ie, naval bases).

Sorry for the thread hi-jack Leaven, I doubt this helps you out much. Like I said earlier, just limit or eliminate all sea and air trade and you'll be fine.

That flag also negates the "Sinks in Ocean" flag on units, so if you do that then keep in mind that your coastal ships will never be able to traverse ocean safely. If your scenario does not include aircraft, then replacing harbors with coastal "airports" may be interesting. Of course, they can't be blockaded.

I think this would actually work well for me. I didn't want to make smaller ships upgrade to bigger ones anyway (like a Curragh to a Galley? I don't think so.) IMHO smaller ships shouldn't really ever be able to navigate vast oceans, so it's no problem if they are stuck near land.

I think this would actually work well for me. I didn't want to make smaller ships upgrade to bigger ones anyway (like a Curragh to a Galley? I don't think so.) IMHO smaller ships shouldn't really ever be able to navigate vast oceans, so it's no problem if they are stuck near land.

With respect to the navigation ability of small ships, Tim Severin took a Irish Curragh from Ireland to Newfoundland in the late 1970s, and then you had Thor Heyerdahl taking the Ra II across the Atlantic from Morocco to Barbados, along with the Kon Tiki raft from Peru to the Polynesian Islands in 1947. You also have Joshua Slocum taking a 37 foot sloop around the world solo in 1900. Seaworthiness is rarely an issue for properly constructed craft, knowing where you are going is the key. The exception would be the Galley, which was a warship with very limited carrying capacity, and pretty fragile as well. The main thing is being able to carry sufficient supplies.

The main factor in slowing down large maps to start with is the number of civilizations and the number and aggressiveness of the barbarians, and then later on the number of harbors and airports allowing sea and air trade routes to be established.

With respect to the navigation ability of small ships, Tim Severin took a Irish Curragh from Ireland to Newfoundland in the late 1970s, and then you had Thor Heyerdahl taking the Ra II across the Atlantic from Morocco to Barbados, along with the Kon Tiki raft from Peru to the Polynesian Islands in 1947. You also have Joshua Slocum taking a 37 foot sloop around the world solo in 1900. Seaworthiness is rarely an issue for properly constructed craft, knowing where you are going is the key. The exception would be the Galley, which was a warship with very limited carrying capacity, and pretty fragile as well. The main thing is being able to carry sufficient supplies.
Most of that I didn't know, so thank you. More what I was thinking of was the supply issue; it's unlikely that MOST boats the size of a dingy would keep enough food and water to cross the Atlantic, even if they did know where to go. There are certainly exceptions, especially when you consider ocean currents and island-hopping, but I was thinking more of a straight shot across a huge expanse of water.

Most of that I didn't know, so thank you. More what I was thinking of was the supply issue; it's unlikely that MOST boats the size of a dingy would keep enough food and water to cross the Atlantic, even if they did know where to go. There are certainly exceptions, especially when you consider ocean currents and island-hopping, but I was thinking more of a straight shot across a huge expanse of water.

You are correct that supplies are the issue. If you have a very small crew, you can get quite a ways even with a small craft. However, for either serious exploring or any kind of colonizing, you do need larger craft, although the Polynesians did pretty well in the Pacific with dugout catamarans.

Since I play a lot on water maps, either continents or archipelago, I will venture to make a recommendation to you. Go to the map editor, and set your map size to 256 x 256. Use a setting of archipelago, 60% water, and generate a map. Then take out the smaller islands and shallow water areas, until you have a large number of unconnected land masses. I think that you can then redistribute resources, which will concentrate them on the smaller land area, and you might want to set starting locations too, to make sure that your civilizations are nicely spread out. If you really want to make things a bit harder, do not allowing any X-wrapping to occur, so that in order to get from one side of the map to the other, you have a long way to go.

Have fun.