http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/Hydromancerx2/Spaceship.jpg

So I have been trying to think on how we could go "beyond our planet". Since it seems that multiple maps are not feasible at the moment I was thinking what if we had a new "Spaceship Menu" like the one that's is in the game. Except rather than a spaceship that you add parts to, its a solar system map you add colonies to.

There is a concept image of what it could look like. The details are not set in stone but it would give a little more death to the future era game.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv228/Hydromancerx2/space.jpg

Alternatively you could have more than one window such as one for the moon, one for like Mars, one for the solar system one for Alpha Centauri and so on. In theory you could have many missions for each type of spaceship-like menu.

And rather than parts added to a spaceship you could have building added to say the planets surface. Heck if you got advanced enough you could bring in really high tech stuff like a Dyson Sphere to a solar system menu or wormhole gates in a galaxy map.

What do you moders think? Is such a task doable?

Yeah, the building-the-spaceship-parts of the game should be re-modded completely, I think.
New "parts" should actually be the colonizing the "whatever" like seen in your screenie #2. If a "part" would be completed this could be matched by a little map overview of a starsystem like in the BtS mod final frontier that would be fantastic. I even would like to have more strategic maps to play on the same time. Switching between the maps would be really nice, although for the sake of RAM the other maps might be small maps with final frontier design for the whole galaxy maybe.
I would want to build buildings in the newly settled colonies and would want to meet my rivals of earth on these maps in space too.
And there's even more what would challenge the rise of mankind: alien civs, robot-empires, space pirates.
I want full interactivity - do you hear me, god of civ? Get it done, give us Civ 6, now!!!


There is a concept image of what it could look like. The details are not set in stone but it would give a little more death to the future era game.


Yay, future to the depth of death - ^^
Take that, black hole of Sense!

(caution: inversive joke. don't mistake the english meaning of sense here, Sense is the german word for scythe)

Okay, here goes, Making new windows and screens are all done in python. There are plenty of talented python modders here at CFC, but I am not one of them.

Making a new screen showing parts of the galaxy would be do-able, but it wouldn't look like the regular map. You'd need to do a ton of SDK work (and have lots of C++ know-how) to get it done. Anything's possible, but I think you'd need to get someone with Jdog5000, EmperorFool, Dom Pedro II, Kael, Xienwolf, or the HotK team's talent to help. Those are the best C++ coders here at CFC. (I hope I didn't forget anyone...)

love the idea, much more feasible in the way of coding and user friendliness. So instead of waiting 50 minutes each turn to calculate the entire galaxy, it's just a window. Being a real space freak (like afforess is a LotR freak:lol:) this really gets me motivated to learn more C++ (learn to add MAD to ANM for starters) in hopes of actually making something like this. It also gives me a reason to add wormholes to the game. :lol:

Would definatly use this modmod, I don't reach the late era's much though.

Besides the "cool factor" what are the planned benefits of space colonies (i.e. Resources, Commerce bonuses and yields), as well as costs (Revolutions in Space, Maintenance costs, Diplomatic Pressures)? Are there going to be different types of "colonies" (Military Base, Mining Facility, Settler Colony), and are the effects going to be different based on location (Moon Military Base allows you to bombard enemy cities, Venus Military Base allows access to a Chemical 4 promotion, Asteroid Mining Facility provides Iron, Titan Mining Facility provides Methane, Ganymede Settler Colony provides 20 Beakers and Reduces cost of all other colonies built on Ganymede by 25%, Moon Settler Colony adds +1 Trade Routes in all cities)?

This sounds like cool concept, which will make the Future Age more dangerous, like it should be. Such a project is going to be a Herculean effort though.

(like afforess is a LotR freak:lol:)

What tipped you off? :p

What tipped you off? :p

Your avatar and title for starters.:crazyeye:

Anyway, I was thinking random events could allow a civ with a telescope or Hubble to discover new moons/planets/stars and the Alpha Centauri mission can't start until a civ discovers it. Ultimately making the 'space race victory' into a 'galactic conquest' and/or 'galactic domination'.

EDIT: and I just thought: there goes Hydromancerx and his mother spheres :lol:

I'd love to see this done i've always wanted to combine final frontier and ROM

Okay, here goes, Making new windows and screens are all done in python. There are plenty of talented python modders here at CFC, but I am not one of them.

Making a new screen showing parts of the galaxy would be do-able, but it wouldn't look like the regular map. You'd need to do a ton of SDK work (and have lots of C++ know-how) to get it done. Anything's possible, but I think you'd need to get someone with Jdog5000, EmperorFool, Dom Pedro II, Kael, Xienwolf, or the HotK team's talent to help. Those are the best C++ coders here at CFC. (I hope I didn't forget anyone...)

Well I see it being done 2 ways.

1. Replaced each spaceship 3D object with a new 3D mesh. Such as the main base model could be replaced by a planet. And each "part" could be replaced by say a landing site, colony, spaceport, terrafomng facility, etc. Basiclly little meshes to added on to the top of the main mesh just like you have little part meshes added to the top of the rocket mesh.

2. Skip the whole visual stuff and just have a new menu with statistics and possibly 2D picture icons to make it pretty. Basiclly just one big menu showing information about the galaxy. And each time you launch stuff up (produce it from your city) another stat gets updated on the "Space Menu".

Besides the "cool factor" what are the planned benefits of space colonies (i.e. Resources, Commerce bonuses and yields), as well as costs (Revolutions in Space, Maintenance costs, Diplomatic Pressures)? Are there going to be different types of "colonies" (Military Base, Mining Facility, Settler Colony), and are the effects going to be different based on location (Moon Military Base allows you to bombard enemy cities, Venus Military Base allows access to a Chemical 4 promotion, Asteroid Mining Facility provides Iron, Titan Mining Facility provides Methane, Ganymede Settler Colony provides 20 Beakers and Reduces cost of all other colonies built on Ganymede by 25%, Moon Settler Colony adds +1 Trade Routes in all cities)?

This sounds like cool concept, which will make the Future Age more dangerous, like it should be. Such a project is going to be a Herculean effort though.

I love these ideas!

What's a "Raegbund"?

What's a "Raegbund"?

Google is a friend.

The answer is on the second result page...

Well I see it being done 2 ways.

1. Replaced each spaceship 3D object with a new 3D mesh. Such as the main base model could be replaced by a planet. And each "part" could be replaced by say a landing site, colony, spaceport, terrafomng facility, etc. Basiclly little meshes to added on to the top of the main mesh just like you have little part meshes added to the top of the rocket mesh.

2. Skip the whole visual stuff and just have a new menu with statistics and possibly 2D picture icons to make it pretty. Basiclly just one big menu showing information about the galaxy. And each time you launch stuff up (produce it from your city) another stat gets updated on the "Space Menu".



I love these ideas!

I was thinking of an entirely new screen, the scrollable thumbnail entries on the right, the info on the left, new planets are only discoverable by telescopes, hubble, or space-bound satellites.

i know this is probably a really stupid idea but is it possible that you could have say final frontiers galaxy map and code it so that all the planets are coded as cities except that when you click on them instead of getting the city window you get say a new land map (the planet)
i hope that made some kind of sense

i know this is probably a really stupid idea but is it possible that you could have say final frontiers galaxy map and code it so that all the planets are coded as cities except that when you click on them instead of getting the city window you get say a new land map (the planet)
i hope that made some kind of sense

I understand what you are saying. A map inside a map. I have no idea how workable that is though....

exactly btw how hard is it to learn to mod civ 4

exactly btw how hard is it to learn to mod civ 4

It depends on what you want to do. Civ4 is one of the most moddable games ever. If you just need new units and buildings, it all XML, which is a text-language, very simple for non-programmers to learn. Adding screens, like the advisor screens takes an understanding of Python, a programming laungauge. The most advanced mods, like Revolutions, FFH2, etc... require C++ changes.

The map changes you propose would take a very experienced C++ coder.

It depends on what you want to do. Civ4 is one of the most moddable games ever. If you just need new units and buildings, it all XML, which is a text-language, very simple for non-programmers to learn. Adding screens, like the advisor screens takes an understanding of Python, a programming laungauge. The most advanced mods, like Revolutions, FFH2, etc... require C++ changes.

The map changes you propose would take a very experienced C++ coder.

Only if TheLopez never left CFC, it would be extremely difficult to imagine what he could've made by now and what a different place this site would be.

So if this is done we could do it in one of 2 ways.

1. Based on Earth (Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Asteroid Belt, Venus, etc).

OR

2. Randomly Generated (No specific names of planets and other cosmic objects)

Lets say we use #2 so every game is unique there would have to be some constants. For instance we should have a moon only because the planet would be much diffrent without the moon or more than one moon. We could have the moon be the training ground for spreading to other planets or moons in the solar system. The other constant would be the sun and at least one large Gas giant like Jupiter.

The other issue is distance. While its not too much trouble traveling within your solar system traveling to other star system could take much much longer. Even generations. So like having eras we might need to have more than one "Space Eras". Think of it like Columbus and how long it took to go from Caravels to say Commercial Airliners.

The first "era" would be within the "Modern Era" basically once Satellites are discovered and the Apollo Program is done. You start with missions to the moon, walking on the moon and then getting samples. But since there are no real resources colonization would not happen until later.

Next you send probes out to other planets in the solar system and possibly a rover to the closest habitable planet aka Mars. This would be like stuff you do when you discover space flight tech and make the Hubble and stuff. So basically the available missions would be the whole probe thing. Sort of like how you send out a scout to see whats out there.

Next is the space station not much to do in missions other than building the space station. And then space tourism. This for now would be stuff in orbit and possibly the ability to put say a tourist building on the moon.

The next big step is in the Trans-Human Era with Space colonies. This is where colonies on the Moon and Mars would take place. Put a tourist building on Mars too.

These next ideas would split from the established tech tree. Things like Asteroid Mining, Spaceports (Mass Drivers), Colony Arcologies, Solar Sails, Mass Driver Propulsion, etc. Basiclly all the techs to help colonize the solar system.

Once all space is filled on habitable planets and moons then terraforming would come in. Turning uninhabited world into inhabitable ones. This means cold ones like Mars to be more wet and hotter while at the extreme ones like Venus cooled down. That would be like advanced terraforming.

Meanwhile we could be using Hubble Telescope or other long range probes to see what else is beyond the solar system. So the interstellar travel would be something that should be pushed back a ways so you cannot get it until you have researched other space propulsion. But once you got a method then it could be done and sending actually people to other solar systems would be just like we had before for the innter solar system.

The new solar systems would take a very long time to get to which would mean time between your home planet and them would be a long time. Such isolation could lead to possibly the beginning of new species. Ones adapted to space, ones adapted to each of the planet colonies, etc.

I mean this really becomes the limit on how complex you want to get and how far can we imagine into the future. I mean I am sure we can fully fill out all the home solar system exploration and colonization but beyond that I am not sure. Because it eventually just becomes un-realsitic fantasy.

I mean we most likely will not find aliens in our general area of the universe. Sure there might be some bacteria or even some fauna or flora but intelligent aliens? They are probably really far out there. Even to get there we would need to invoke sci-fi modes of transportation such as folding spaces or wormholes since warp drive or light speed is impossible.

So yeah. I say we first flesh out the moon missions. We have been there done that. Then move on to working out Mars mission and eventually other solar system missions like the Asteroid belt or Moons like Titan. I think at least for planning that's an achievable goal. Whether or not we can actually create it and cod it is still another matter. But at least we would have the details of specifically what we would want to do.

Let me know what you guys think and what ideas you have.

Goals
- Moon
- Mars
- Asteroid Belt
- Gas Giant Moons
- Venus & Mercury
- Kuiper Belt
- Mastery of the Solar System
- Expansion to Alpha Centauri

So if this is done we could do it in one of 2 ways.

1. Based on Earth (Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Asteroid Belt, Venus, etc).

OR

2. Randomly Generated (No specific names of planets and other cosmic objects)

Lets say we use #2 so every game is unique there would have to be some constants. For instance we should have a moon only because the planet would be much diffrent without the moon or more than one moon. We could have the moon be the training ground for spreading to other planets or moons in the solar system. The other constant would be the sun and at least one large Gas giant like Jupiter.

The other issue is distance. While its not too much trouble traveling within your solar system traveling to other star system could take much much longer. Even generations. So like having eras we might need to have more than one "Space Eras". Think of it like Columbus and how long it took to go from Caravels to say Commercial Airliners.

The first "era" would be within the "Modern Era" basically once Satellites are discovered and the Apollo Program is done. You start with missions to the moon, walking on the moon and then getting samples. But since there are no real resources colonization would not happen until later.

Next you send probes out to other planets in the solar system and possibly a rover to the closest habitable planet aka Mars. This would be like stuff you do when you discover space flight tech and make the Hubble and stuff. So basically the available missions would be the whole probe thing. Sort of like how you send out a scout to see whats out there.

Next is the space station not much to do in missions other than building the space station. And then space tourism. This for now would be stuff in orbit and possibly the ability to put say a tourist building on the moon.

The next big step is in the Trans-Human Era with Space colonies. This is where colonies on the Moon and Mars would take place. Put a tourist building on Mars too.

These next ideas would split from the established tech tree. Things like Asteroid Mining, Spaceports (Mass Drivers), Colony Arcologies, Solar Sails, Mass Driver Propulsion, etc. Basiclly all the techs to help colonize the solar system.

Once all space is filled on habitable planets and moons then terraforming would come in. Turning uninhabited world into inhabitable ones. This means cold ones like Mars to be more wet and hotter while at the extreme ones like Venus cooled down. That would be like advanced terraforming.

Meanwhile we could be using Hubble Telescope or other long range probes to see what else is beyond the solar system. So the interstellar travel would be something that should be pushed back a ways so you cannot get it until you have researched other space propulsion. But once you got a method then it could be done and sending actually people to other solar systems would be just like we had before for the innter solar system.

The new solar systems would take a very long time to get to which would mean time between your home planet and them would be a long time. Such isolation could lead to possibly the beginning of new species. Ones adapted to space, ones adapted to each of the planet colonies, etc.

I mean this really becomes the limit on how complex you want to get and how far can we imagine into the future. I mean I am sure we can fully fill out all the home solar system exploration and colonization but beyond that I am not sure. Because it eventually just becomes un-realsitic fantasy.

I mean we most likely will not find aliens in our general area of the universe. Sure there might be some bacteria or even some fauna or flora but intelligent aliens? They are probably really far out there. Even to get there we would need to invoke sci-fi modes of transportation such as folding spaces or wormholes since warp drive or light speed is impossible.

So yeah. I say we first flesh out the moon missions. We have been there done that. Then move on to working out Mars mission and eventually other solar system missions like the Asteroid belt or Moons like Titan. I think at least for planning that's an achievable goal. Whether or not we can actually create it and cod it is still another matter. But at least we would have the details of specifically what we would want to do.

Let me know what you guys think and what ideas you have.

Goals
- Moon
- Mars
- Asteroid Belt
- Gas Giant Moons
- Venus & Mercury
- Kuiper Belt
- Mastery of the Solar System
- Expansion to Alpha Centauri

What about faster than light travel? Far into future (like last 25 or so years before the game finishes if you are playing with Time victory?

The new solar systems would take a very long time to get to which would mean time between your home planet and them would be a long time. Such isolation could lead to possibly the beginning of new species. Ones adapted to space, ones adapted to each of the planet colonies, etc.

I mean this really becomes the limit on how complex you want to get and how far can we imagine into the future.

I mean I am sure we can fully fill out all the home solar system exploration and colonization but beyond that I am not sure. Because it eventually just becomes un-realsitic fantasy.


Maybe here comes the Omega-Point-Theory of Dr. Tipler in place. It is the most spaced out theory I ever read. Can't say I believe it or anything. It's just mind-blowing stuff... the perfect last mission to achieve in RoM transhuman aera!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point_%28Tipler%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

Maybe here comes the Omega-Point-Theory of Dr. Tipler in place. It is the most spaced out theory I ever read. Can't say I believe it or anything. It's just mind-blowing stuff... the perfect last mission to achieve in RoM transhuman aera!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point_%28Tipler%29

I'm assuming you are trying to make a joke here :).

Actually, even if you were serious, it would require pushing forward the last year needed for Time victory even further into, like, 3000 CE or something like that.

I'm assuming you are trying to make a joke here :).

Actually, even if you were serious, it would require pushing forward the last year needed for Time victory even further into, like, 3000 CE or something like that.

Nope would be a new victory type (and btw. I never play with 'time victory' checkmark):
The Omega Point, beginning and end at the same time, the state between truth and lie, reality and illusion, the last frontier of lifes metaphysical extravaganza.
Would be a religious-economic-cultural-scientific-domination-conquest victory, to be honest. The Über-Sieg, as Nietzsche would have said, wanting to mock a latter-day american geek.

And, indeed, Nietzsche pointed out something similar as well, and although being paralyzed by it, he was fascinated by reflecting the idea of eternal return, which the hourglas 'omega point' also provides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return#Friedrich_Nietzsche

What about faster than light travel? Far into future (like last 25 or so years before the game finishes if you are playing with Time victory?

I mentioned it a little here. However travel like in Star Trek or Star Wars would be impossible if we want to keep things realistic. Our best bet is if you can use wormholes to traverse long distances through space quickly. If not the universe is going to be a very big place where getting anywhere beyond your own solar system will take generations (which i suspect might be how it really will be).

I mean we most likely will not find aliens in our general area of the universe. Sure there might be some bacteria or even some fauna or flora but intelligent aliens? They are probably really far out there. Even to get there we would need to invoke sci-fi modes of transportation such as folding spaces or wormholes since warp drive or light speed is impossible.

-------

Maybe here comes the Omega-Point-Theory of Dr. Tipler in place. It is the most spaced out theory I ever read. Can't say I believe it or anything. It's just mind-blowing stuff... the perfect last mission to achieve in RoM transhuman aera!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point_%28Tipler%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

Awesome! Those blow my mind. Thansk for sharing them! :D

Ahem warp speed in Star Trek works by folding space around it allowing it to transverse distances beyond if it just used impulse.

Ahem warp speed in Star Trek works by folding space around it allowing it to transverse distances beyond if it just used impulse.

Wait if that was true then why do they show it as them moving through space? If it was really folding space you would instantly appear in the new place in space. Which would look like teleportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect

Well they fold space to make them move faster while using their conventional engines aka impulse. Warp is basically when they jump into warp that is when they start folding space and moving.

Wait if that was true then why do they show it as them moving through space? If it was really folding space you would instantly appear in the new place in space. Which would look like teleportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect

Also I read somewhere that the long streaks thingies out of the window is just visual effects given by ship's computer. And convenient for TV/movie viewers to visualize.

Remember Star Trek is a visual medium based entertainment. If the warp speed is to be shown realistically, I extremely doubt that it owuld be a pretty sight nor even near to real thing anyway. Better a pretty sight than esoteric sight, imo.

As I understand it you would have 2 ways to fold space.

1. You fold the space so there is a wormhole "tunnel" in which you can take a shorter distance between 2 points in space. Such as like in "Stargate" or "Farscape".

http://www.slais.ubc.ca/COURSES/libr500/04-05-wt1/www/b_ballantyne/media/wormhole1.jpg

2. Its the same idea except there is no wormhole to "travel" through" basically both opening of what were the wormholes touch and you just appear in the new point in space without actually taking time to travel there like say the wormhole idea is. Image the picture above but with no space between the 2 surfaces.

Well I can tell you right now that possibly the most action anyone is going to see in the way of space travel is how many turns your craft will take to get to a specified location depending on distance the latest tech and what parts have been attached to the craft. Whether it be rocket propulsion, Ion thruster, a singularity controller or space creasing you'll only see the amount of turns it takes to get your newly built craft to get from point A to point B.

Well I can tell you right now that possibly the most action anyone is going to see in the way of space travel is how many turns your craft will take to get to a specified location depending on distance the latest tech and what parts have been attached to the craft. Whether it be rocket propulsion, Ion thruster, a singularity controller or space creasing you'll only see the amount of turns it takes to get your newly built craft to get from point A to point B.

Yeah. We ares discussing what it would actually look like, not how it would be applied in game.

I am very sad to say that MAD may be in worse shape than I had imagined to be even updated to BTS 3.19 and as some of you may know MAD is one of my goals and is a little higher in my priorities than RoMiS. As a result of this, I am going to delay MAD work indefinitely until I know exactly what I am doing. This means that it is now last on my priorities and RoMiS is one step closer to being started on. So work will begin on this modmod right after I finish adding the iSpread XML tag for ANM. So, in order to get working on RoMiS as soon as I complete the XML tag, may I suggest to start pumping out ideas on how this mod will work.:)

I've been thinking about this; The screen will open to a spacial background, planet tabs on the right (like in Hydromancerx's second SS, post 1). Only events through the game will give you planets to look at and explore. For example in the ancient era the event will say someone looked into the sky and saw the moon, you will now have the moon as a tab with absolutely no information about it when you click on the tab. After you get telescopes you can get an event saying you discovered Mars. Mars will now be a tab on the screen. You make satellites that can triangulate and calculate how far the moon is; distance will now be available on the moon tab. Send a rover and it will take X turns to get to the moon(probably not even one) you will get another event saying the landing was successful or not successful (probability depends on tech/safety measures taken/safety equipment added/etc) then over a series of turns more and more data will become available through random events caused by your rover. Later you may choose to put a base on the moon (maintenance depends on water level on that moon, if there is sufficient levels, maintenance will be nearly 0, if there isn't sufficient levels, the maintenance will be extremely expensive, increases exponentially depending on travel ways and distance.)

The five planets Mecruy, Venus, mars, Jupiter and Saturn were known of to the ancients and used in astrology. So much so that they would know where abouts in the sky they would appear for some while into the future with some accuracy. These were very complex calculations since they take into account the movement (and sometimes rotation) of the earth as well as the movement of the planet. Copernicus & Kepler came up with a simplified set of rules for calculating orbits by moving the Sun to the "centre" of the solar system. Well actually to one of the focii of the elipse I suppose :)

Phases of the moon were well understood by classical times. Probably by ancient times but written stuff comes from classical. The moon affected calendars probably before the seasons did.

Galelio may have discovered the four big moons of Jupiter but youngsters can see them with their naked eye if they are far away from light pollution from human habitation or the moon.

Space probes to the various planets should take turns to get there and then supply information. Sometimes it is possible to do many planets with one mission with year between each planet. Note probes do not land but fly by. Landers are another issue.

Discovery of Neptune, The asteroids (originaly thought of as planets until there were too many of them) Uranus and Pluto required telescopes. Extra terestral planets "only" requires telescopes and computers now.

Ammeture astronamers still find new stuff that surprises the proffessionals.

I've been thinking about this; The screen will open to a spacial background, planet tabs on the right (like in Hydromancerx's second SS, post 1). Only events through the game will give you planets to look at and explore. For example in the ancient era the event will say someone looked into the sky and saw the moon, you will now have the moon as a tab with absolutely no information about it when you click on the tab. After you get telescopes you can get an event saying you discovered Mars. Mars will now be a tab on the screen. You make satellites that can triangulate and calculate how far the moon is; distance will now be available on the moon tab. Send a rover and it will take X turns to get to the moon(probably not even one) you will get another event saying the landing was successful or not successful (probability depends on tech/safety measures taken/safety equipment added/etc) then over a series of turns more and more data will become available through random events caused by your rover. Later you may choose to put a base on the moon (maintenance depends on water level on that moon, if there is sufficient levels, maintenance will be nearly 0, if there isn't sufficient levels, the maintenance will be extremely expensive, increases exponentially depending on travel ways and distance.)

I like these ideas. Which in turn gave me some ideas....

* = New Tech

Mysticism
Effect: Reveals Sun and Moon Tabs in Space Menu.
Why: Because they are both key to mysticism and all other religions.

*Stargazing (Req Sailing, Mysticism)
Effect: Reveals Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn Tabs in Space Menu.
Why: Because those are the planets you can see with your naked eye if you know where to look.

Astronomy [Observatory] (Add Stargazing Req)
Effect:Reveals Neptune, Uranus, Europa, Titan, Ceres and Asteroid Belt Tabs in Space Menu.
Why: These were discovered through telescopes, mainly in Galileo's time.

Not sure what to do but Pluto and other things beyond Neptune.

Radar [Radio Telescope]
Effect:Reveals ??? Tabs in Space Menu.
Why: ???

Space Flight [Hubble Space Telescope]
Effect:Reveals ??? Tabs in Space Menu.
Why: ???

Useful Wiki Links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_colonization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_Moon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Mars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_asteroids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_outer_Solar_System

Let's not also forget about two key techs for this concept: Interstellar Travel and Space Colonies. The latter is going to be the most important tech for this idea, allow construction of the majority of Space Colonies.

This mod is likely to require some more future techs requiring Space Colonies. Examples: Space Tourism, Planetary Nationalism, Interplanetary Terraforming, etc.

Let's not also forget about two key techs for this concept: Interstellar Travel and Space Colonies. The latter is going to be the most important tech for this idea, allow construction of the majority of Space Colonies.

This mod is likely to require some more future techs requiring Space Colonies. Examples: Space Tourism, Planetary Nationalism, Interplanetary Terraforming, etc.

I was thinking of redoing the space techs, since they're near the end of the tree it won't be too difficult to move them and make space. I was thinking of making the (prototype at the moment) Ion Thruster a tech of it's own along with bio waste recycling, singularity stabilization, stargazing(near the beginning), etc.

I was thinking of redoing the space techs, since they're near the end of the tree it won't be too difficult to move them and make space. I was thinking of making the (prototype at the moment) Ion Thruster a tech of it's own along with bio waste recycling, singularity stabilization, stargazing(near the beginning), etc.

I think that's a good idea. Also don't forget about things like "Solar Sailing", "Mass Driver Launching" or "Colony Arcologies". There are tons of space techs that just were not needed before.

Do you think indirect techs like "Astrology" should be added since they have to do a lot with planets and the constellations but not science.

Sure thing, this is RoM in Space, not Science of Space in RoM. Could you upload an image (any file format will do: jpg, gif, psd, dds, etc.) of a background? no 'tabs' included like your other concept ss though.

Sure thing, this is RoM in Space, not Science of Space in RoM. Could you upload an image (any file format will do: jpg, gif, psd, dds, etc.) of a background? no 'tabs' included like your other concept ss though.

Well this was taken from the game Spore. I just found a random image of it off the web.

figured as much but wasn't 100% if it was from the web or your personal game;)

Just thought of another thing; If say an opposing civ discovers a planet/moon etc that you have not discovered yet, a spy may steal data to keep you up to date and both civs would be in a race to colonize it. Another thing; planets could potentially have more than one owner, number of colonies able to settle would depend on planet size too. One thing that gets me though is that if two civs declare war, would two colonies on another planet also go to war? or would they show minimal/no aggression to each other because the home planet is so far away? One last thing; should revolutions apply to the colonies?

figured as much but wasn't 100% if it was from the web or your personal game;)

Why boot up the game for a screenshot if you can find the exact same one on the web? :P

--------

So how complex do we want to make this? Are we going to have every placed colonized in the solar system or general areas? The way I see it is we have the Moon for sure, then Mars. Mars also has 2 moons Phobos and Deimos. I am not sure if we want to have those colonizable. Also the asteroid belt should be mined and we could even theoretically colonize the dwarf planet, Ceres in the asteroid belt. Venus could be colonized but not before it was heavily terraformed to be much much cooler. Venus, unlike the Earth or Mars has no moons. Next we have Mercury its small and close to the sun. It would probably not be a place to colonize but maybe a place to gain resources. As for the outer solar system Jupeter's moon Europa and Saturn's Moon Titan would be promising for colonization. Over they as well as Neptune and Uranus all have many small moons.

I am thinking that we should just keep things general and possibly not even reference specific planets. Because if you on a random map you might not be on Earth and if your not on Earth then your probably not even in the same solar system. However there are some constants that make a planet like Earth even exist. One would be that its in the "habitable zone". Another would be the present of a Gas Giant like Jupiter to keep most of the asteroids from hitting the planet (though that might be a cool disaster for the game). The Moon also helped protect us too not to mention the tides would not work without it so its important. So here is my idea for what place in the generic solar system should be available.

- Home Planet's Moon (Ex. Luna)
- Nearest Terrestrial Planet (Ex. Mars)
- Asteroid Belt Mining (Ex Asteroid Belt)
- Gas Giant's Moon (Ex. Europa)

And that's about all you would need as a minimum for the home solar system. Beyond that we could have a lot more. Perhaps when the game starts you could get a random amount of planets, moons and stuff. If that's not possible then those 4 sound good.

----

Meteor Impact

It might also be cool to have a meteor impact event that could randomly place a uranium or iron deposit on the game map (not the space menu).

Just thought of another thing; If say an opposing civ discovers a planet/moon etc that you have not discovered yet, a spy may steal data to keep you up to date and both civs would be in a race to colonize it. Another thing; planets could potentially have more than one owner, number of colonies able to settle would depend on planet size too. One thing that gets me though is that if two civs declare war, would two colonies on another planet also go to war? or would they show minimal/no aggression to each other because the home planet is so far away? One last thing; should revolutions apply to the colonies?

Before we get into all that I think we should decide the stuff I posted above.

Do you think indirect techs like "Astrology" should be added since they have to do a lot with planets and the constellations but not science.

And I thought that was what you meant by "Stargazing". Ancient Astrology leads to astronomy. Modern Astrology is something else entirely. Calander should require Astrology if you are going to include it.

Hello,

Remember, to be sure to make techs mesh neatly into 2100 as the final year.

Because there are rare individuals who :eek: play Time Victory as well.

I don't but need to toss that out :).

Hello,

Remember, to be sure to make techs mesh neatly into 2100 as the final year.

Because there are rare individuals who :eek: play Time Victory as well.

I don't but need to toss that out :).

Or we could toss out all victories and make our own UBER victory that requires every victory condition to met met before you could win ... or maybe not. :P

I am thinking that we should just keep things general and possibly not even reference specific planets. Because if you on a random map you might not be on Earth and if your not on Earth then your probably not even in the same solar system. However there are some constants that make a planet like Earth even exist. One would be that its in the "habitable zone". Another would be the present of a Gas Giant like Jupiter to keep most of the asteroids from hitting the planet (though that might be a cool disaster for the game). The Moon also helped protect us too not to mention the tides would not work without it so its important. So here is my idea for what place in the generic solar system should be available.

- Home Planet's Moon (Ex. Luna)
- Nearest Terrestrial Planet (Ex. Mars)
- Asteroid Belt Mining (Ex Asteroid Belt)
- Gas Giant's Moon (Ex. Europa)



That's pretty close to what I was thinking. Only the way it's handled is completely by random percent probabilities. This means for example you would have a random number (1-2) for the amount of moons you have. Then with distance, brightness and orbital courses you have a given % to discover a moon so say you have 1 moon at a random range, say 20,000 Km away from your planet with an orbit horizontal to your planet at -5,000 km/s (+ for clockwise from looking from the northpole, - for counterclockwise) you would probably have a 99.99% chance to discover the moon. If the moon orbit was vertical you'd have a 99.98% chance to discover the moon (more effective at further distances) since not all of Jupiter's and Saturn's moons were discovered by the naked eye. But telescopes can easily raise that percentage for further moons.


Meteor Impact

It might also be cool to have a meteor impact event that could randomly place a uranium or iron deposit on the game map (not the space menu).

Nice idea, but instead of just putting down a raw resource i was thinking along the lines of a crater with tektites, you can either set up a tourist improvement on it for commerce or put a mine on it to turn it into a usable resource.

Hello,

Remember, to be sure to make techs mesh neatly into 2100 as the final year.

Because there are rare individuals who :eek: play Time Victory as well.

I don't but need to toss that out :).

I can easily just make the time victory go on for another 1,000 years.

EDIT: just fyi I was thinking of making a new RoM in Space modmod thread when the first alpha versions come out as to keep all the updates on the first post.

Or we could toss out all victories and make our own UBER victory that requires every victory condition to met met before you could win ... or maybe not. :P

Well in the way of new victory conditions, time will be extended maybe 1 thousand years extra, space race must be remade, conquest must be achieved before an enemy colony is launched or else you'll have to hunt down every colony and launch a dozen inter-galactic nukes at it or a planet destroyer. Domination would be nearly impossible if too much of the galaxy is colonized, religious victory would be already redundant this late in the game... Diplomatic would stay the same, but I was thinking of adding some UN resolutions pertaining to assaults from space, etc.

I was thinking of 3 things for Space Race; Instead of racing to Alpha Centauri:
1. race to be the first to colonize another galaxy
2. race to the galactic core (craft must be strong enough to resist the intense gravity)
3. race to the spot of the Big Bang (yes, out in the middle of literally no where)

As of the new victory type, there are quite a few non-victory game-ending conditions.
1. large asteroid destroys home planet (can't load different maps in 1 game)
2. wormhole instability engulfs home planet
3. planet destroyer nuke used on home planet by civ that no longer lives on the home planet

I was thinking of 3 things for Space Race; Instead of racing to Alpha Centauri:
1. race to be the first to colonize another galaxy
2. race to the galactic core (craft must be strong enough to resist the intense gravity)
3. race to the spot of the Big Bang (yes, out in the middle of literally no where)


I like the idea of reaching the galactic core. I think we should just keep it limited to 1 galaxy. Its more than enough room to spread to. However if we did this you know that the time scale of the game would greatly be extended since its an extremely great distance to travel to.


As of the new victory type, there are quite a few non-victory game-ending conditions.
1. large asteroid destroys home planet (can't load different maps in 1 game)
2. wormhole instability engulfs home planet
3. planet destroyer nuke used on home planet by civ that no longer lives on the home planet

#1 I like it. :D

#2 I think it should be turning your home sun into a black hole. Note the super Nova would kill the planet before the blackhole took effect.

#3 Yeah the "Planet Buster" is a good idea.

-------

Since distance is the big limitation in the game we should think of the levels of technology. We can think of it like the levels of boats. In the research I have come up with some general canadates. However I am no rocket scientists so many are incomplete on how powerful they are.

* = In use Today.

*Solid-Fuel Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_rocket) = 1 km/s

*Liquid-Fuel Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipropellant_rocket) = 5 km/s

Solar Sail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail) = 10 km/s

Mass Driver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver) = 30 km/s

*Ion Thruster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster) = 50 km/s

Magnetic Sail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion) = 200 km/s

VASIMR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_specific_impulse_magnetoplasma_rocket) = 300 km/s

Fusion Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_rocket) = 1,000 km/s

ACNPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_catalyzed_nuclear_pulse_propulsion) = 4,000 km/s

Bussard Ramjet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet) = 20,000 km/s

Antimatter Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_rocket) = 100,000 km/s

Nuclear Photonic Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_photonic_rocket) = 300,000 km/s

-----

For reference here s the distance of objects in space.

Sun = 146,450,304 km away from Earth.
Moon = 384,403 km away from Earth.
Mars = 57,936,384 away at the closest from Earth.
Asteroid Belt = 144,840,960 away from Earth.
Jupiter = 628,743,036 km away at the closest from Earth.
Pluto = 5,901,464,448 km away on average from Earth.
Alpha Centauri = 44,000,000,000,000 km away from Earth.

I don't want to go beyond that since the number get insane.

Picking up the Dr. Tipler-Vision to build a system of self-replicating Von-Neumann-probes colonizing the whole universe (which I mentioned earlier): this would require a very intense and complicated industry-science program and draws be a real economy-space-time-über-victory in my opinion (win=maybe when the first probe reaches the next galaxy or something). Sadly, most noone knows about this sci-fi-metaphysical theory, RoM could help to educate here a it and pull the borders of the game a bit further...

I don't want to go beyond that since the number get insane.

Just use Lightyears for distance, that's what it's there for.

Since distance is the big limitation in the game we should think of the levels of technology. We can think of it like the levels of boats. In the research I have come up with some general canadates. However I am no rocket scientists so many are incomplete on how powerful they are.

* = In use Today.

*Solid-Fuel Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_rocket) = 1 km/s

*Liquid-Fuel Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipropellant_rocket) = 5 km/s

Solar Sail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail) = 10 km/s

Mass Driver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver) = 30 km/s

*Ion Thruster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster) = 50 km/s

Magnetic Sail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-magnetospheric_plasma_propulsion) = 200 km/s

VASIMR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_specific_impulse_magnetoplasma_rocket) = 300 km/s

Fusion Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_rocket) = 1,000 km/s

ACNPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_catalyzed_nuclear_pulse_propulsion) = 4,000 km/s

Bussard Ramjet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet) = 20,000 km/s

Antimatter Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_rocket) = 100,000 km/s

Nuclear Photonic Rocket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_photonic_rocket) = 300,000 km/s


Looking at most of these, it seems the speed you put down is indeed off. Since there is nearly no drag in space, there is no speed cap except for the solar sails and speed of light for the rest which can be avoided by wormholes / folding space. The problem of each type of propulsion is rather velocity versus weight. These are just rough estimates.

Solid Fuel Rocket = 210 m/s/s (meter per second per second) plus fuel restrictions, say 100 tons

Liquid Fuel Rocket = 320 m/s/s plus fuel restrictions also about 100 tons

Solar Sail = 2km/s/s with a 400-600 km/s speed cap but can only be used within solar system

Mass Driver = 20km/s/s with a cap of 20-40 km/s, only usable for cargo

Ion Thruster = 640m/s/s with 50 ton fuel restriction, but extremely efficient

Magnetic Sail = Solar Sail but with a different name.

VASIMR = 840m/s/s with 50 ton fuel restriction

Fusion Rocket = 2km/s/s with 50 ton fuel restriction

ACNPP = 64km/s/s with 10 ton fuel restriction, extremely efficient

Bussard Ramjet = 1m/s/s/s (exponentially increases speed)

Antimatter Rocket = 120km/s/s with 2 ton fuel restriction

Nuclear Photonic Rocket = 240km/s/s with 3,000,000 km/s speed cap

*Neutrino Oscillation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrinos#Flavor_oscillations) Pulse = km/s/s depends on how many muon neutrinos have been filled in, 1 ton (907kg) = 907km/s when manually oscillated to electron neutrinos. If oscillated all in the same direction that hit a special surface to catch these electron neutrinos, it could propel the craft to near light speed with enough neutrinos since neutrinos are not massless. Only good for large but lightweight crafts. Oscillated at 1 ton per second.
(* = made up yet possible for far future)

Looking at most of these, it seems the speed you put down is indeed off. Since there is nearly no drag in space, there is no speed cap except for the solar sails and speed of light for the rest which can be avoided by wormholes / folding space. The problem of each type of propulsion is rather velocity versus weight. These are just rough estimates.


I was basing it off this chart on wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion#Table_of_methods

As you can see there are many more types. However which ones should we use? Some get redundant.

Just use Lightyears for distance, that's what it's there for.

Yes, miles are for Earth, or a minor bit of it anyway:mischief:. AU = ave. distance from Sun to Earth (about 8 light minutes) for planets outside the Mars orbit. Light years and parsecs for the stars!

Are you going Earth centric or Sol centric? I have a map of the known universe which is about the same size as the RoM tech tree. It uses a logarithmic style scale. So the ancient era would corrilate to the local system, the classic to the near neighbour stars, then the rest of the galaxy, then the neighbouring galaxies, then the universe!

So would a tech-tree style "screen" be feasible with each planet being a button on the tree? :)

I was basing it off this chart on wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_propulsion#Table_of_methods

As you can see there are many more types. However which ones should we use? Some get redundant.

Well in that case...

Solid Rocket = 7km/s, 1mN (mega newton = 1,000,000 newtons), very limited fuel, used for moon(s)

Ion Thruster = 600km/s, 1cN (centi-newton) used for solar system traversal

Solar Sails (only be used to reduce inner solar system maintenance)

VASIMR = 900km/s, 1kN settle Alpha Centauri or equivalent

Magnetic Sails (only be used to reduce overall solar system maintenance)

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion = 15,000km/s, 10tN trade with Alpha Centauri more efficiently but cannot settle with since thrust would crush a person.

ACNPP = 62,000km/s, 60tN trading only

Antimatter Rocket = 100,000km/s, 1pN (petaNewton) strictly terrestrial probes, thrust would crush anything not actually attached to the craft.

Neutrino Oscillation Pulse = 9,000tm/s (terameters) Pulse only lasts one second, but must be within a black hole's gravity range to enter a wormhole or craft would self terminate from thrust.

Wormhole traversal (needs Neutrino Oscillation Pulse to enter successfully or craft will be destroyed by the singularity, otherwise wormholes would only be used for fast communications)

Folding Space = fold limited amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1ly - 100ly (light years)(only enough to explore galaxy, game winner)

Space Creasing = fold larger amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1,000ly - 1,000,000,000ly(only enough for intra-galactic trading)

Well in that case...

Solid Rocket = 7km/s, 1mN (mega newton = 1,000,000 newtons), very limited fuel, used for moon(s)

Ion Thruster = 600km/s, 1cN (centi-newton) used for solar system traversal

Solar Sails (only be used to reduce inner solar system maintenance)

VASIMR = 900km/s, 1kN settle Alpha Centauri or equivalent

Magnetic Sails (only be used to reduce overall solar system maintenance)

Nuclear Pulse Propulsion = 15,000km/s, 10tN trade with Alpha Centauri more efficiently but cannot settle with since thrust would crush a person.

ACNPP = 62,000km/s, 60tN trading only

Antimatter Rocket = 100,000km/s, 1pN (petaNewton) strictly terrestrial probes, thrust would crush anything not actually attached to the craft.

Neutrino Oscillation Pulse = 9,000tm/s (terameters) Pulse only lasts one second, but must be within a black hole's gravity range to enter a wormhole or craft would self terminate from thrust.

Wormhole traversal (needs Neutrino Oscillation Pulse to enter successfully or craft will be destroyed by the singularity, otherwise wormholes would only be used for fast communications)

Folding Space = fold limited amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1ly - 100ly (light years)(only enough to explore galaxy, game winner)

Space Creasing = fold larger amounts of space at any one time, roughly 1,000ly - 1,000,000,000ly(only enough for intra-galactic trading)

Looking good. I would also add a liquid fuel rocket between Solid Rocket and Ion Thruster sicne its still withing the late modern to early trans-human period. Such as solid rocket would be rocketry and advanced rocketry would be liquid fuel rockets.

I am thinking that we should just keep things general and possibly not even reference specific planets. Because if you on a random map you might not be on Earth and if your not on Earth then your probably not even in the same solar system. However there are some constants that make a planet like Earth even exist. One would be that its in the "habitable zone". Another would be the present of a Gas Giant like Jupiter to keep most of the asteroids from hitting the planet (though that might be a cool disaster for the game). The Moon also helped protect us too not to mention the tides would not work without it so its important. So here is my idea for what place in the generic solar system should be available.

- Home Planet's Moon (Ex. Luna)
- Nearest Terrestrial Planet (Ex. Mars)
- Asteroid Belt Mining (Ex Asteroid Belt)
- Gas Giant's Moon (Ex. Europa)


Sounds good.

I would also include Space Stations and Space Platforms. Planetary resource extractions would have to include Saturn's Moon Titan as well, which would also make colonies on Jupiter's moon necessary to keep a supply line running.

Sounds good.

I would also include Space Stations and Space Platforms. Planetary resource extractions would have to include Saturn's Moon Titan as well, which would also make colonies on Jupiter's moon necessary to keep a supply line running.

I think we decided to keep it genetic and random on what planets are in the solar system. This means there is no specific Titan but there could be 1 or more habitable moons around 1 or more gas giants in the solar system. In short what I posted would be the minim solar system 1 home moon, 1 terrestrial planet, 1 asteroid belt, 1 gas giant with 1 moon. Beyond that we should probably decide upon a maxim number too. Like max 2 home moons.

I think we decided to keep it genetic and random on what planets are in the solar system. This means there is no specific Titan but there could be 1 or more habitable moons around 1 or more gas giants in the solar system. In short what I posted would be the minim solar system 1 home moon, 1 terrestrial planet, 1 asteroid belt, 1 gas giant with 1 moon. Beyond that we should probably decide upon a maxim number too. Like max 2 home moons.

That's the basic gist of a generic solar system, but I was thinking more random probability. This is what I've thought up of the basic layout:
Inner Solar System:
percent decides distance - mercury would be a 15%, mars would be a 85%
0%-12% = no planet zone
13%-30% = too hot, planets have 0 moons
31%-45% = habitable but needs terraforming, planets have 0-1 moons
46%-68% = habitable zone, home world is automatically here, planets have 1-2 moons
69%-88% = habitable but needs terraforming, planets have 0-2 moons
89%-100% = too cold & high chance of asteroid bombardment, planets have 0-2 moons
2-5 planets (excluding home planet)

Asteroid Belt

Outer Solar System:
percent decides distance from belt - Jupiter would be a 20%, Pluto would be a 94%
0%-10% = too close to belt
11%-91% = gas giants
92%-100% = large asteroids
1-5 gas giants
2-20 moons
0%-30% = too close, radiation and heat
31%-60% = habitable, temp relies on distance
61%-100% = too cold
0-3 large asteroids

Asteroid Sphere


I was also thinking of applying BUG's auto naming system to the planets but giving it's discoverer/owner a chance to rename it.

@ Generalstaff
The space stations, platforms, etc would be added by you or an AI so no need to add it to premade spacial objects.

@Civ Fuehrer

This looks great! What should we do about other star systems solar systems? Unlike ours they could have anything from gas planets in the inner solar system to binary stars to even all asteroids.

Depending upon the type of star would determine what type of habitable zone there would be when colonizing other star systems.

http://media4.obspm.fr/exoplanets/pages_vie/images/figures/zone_habitable.gif

@Civ Fuehrer

This looks great! What should we do about other star systems solar systems? Unlike ours they could have anything from gas planets in the inner solar system to binary stars to even all asteroids.

Depending upon the type of star would determine what type of habitable zone there would be when colonizing other star systems.

Good point, I think the inner solar system gas giants we'll skip for now, the asteroid systems will register as an asteroid cluster (mineable but nothing more) here's more random probability layouts:
number of stars will just offset base distance percentage system appropriately, temp zones will only be affected by sun with highest % shift.

star size affects temp zones
small = 5% downward shift
ms = 2% downward shift
medium = normal percents as shown above
ml = 2% upward shift
large = 5% upward shift

star heat (color) affects temp zones
purple = no purple stars will have inner solar system planets
red = 5% downward shift
orange = 2% downward shift
yellow = normal percents as shown above
bright blue = 2% upward shift
white = 5% upward shift

@ Civ Fuehrer

Ok. Next set of ides/questions....

1. How many systems can a player discover? Is there a limit?

2. Will the galaxy be separated into quadrants? Ex. Alpha Quadrant, Delta Quadrant, etc.

3. Will there be "Galactic Objects" to discover such as ...

- Black Hole
- Proto-Planetary Disk
- Binary System (2 Blue Giants)
- Binary System (1 Blue Giant, 1 Yellow Sun)
- Binary System (1 Blue Giant, 1 Red Dwarf)
- Binary System (2 Yellow Suns)
- Binary System (1 Yellow Sun, 1 Red Dwarf)
- Binary System (2 Red Dwarfs)
- Comet
- Nebula Gas
- Shells of Supernovae
- Pulsar, Magnetar, Quasar
- Galactic Center

4. Will some systems have microbial life? Or even muticellular fauna and flora? I think intelligent life is too complex because then you would need a new AI.

5. Do you think there should be an additional "Galactic Era" after the Trans-Human Era?

@ Civ Fuehrer

Ok. Next set of ides/questions....

1. How many systems can a player discover? Is there a limit?

2. Will the galaxy be separated into quadrants? Ex. Alpha Quadrant, Delta Quadrant, etc.

3. Will there be "Galactic Objects" to discover such as ...

- Black Hole
- Proto-Planetary Disk
- Binary System (2 Blue Giants)
- Binary System (1 Blue Giant, 1 Yellow Sun)
- Binary System (1 Blue Giant, 1 Red Dwarf)
- Binary System (2 Yellow Suns)
- Binary System (1 Yellow Sun, 1 Red Dwarf)
- Binary System (2 Red Dwarfs)
- Comet
- Nebula Gas
- Shells of Supernovae
- Pulsar, Magnetar, Quasar
- Galactic Center

4. Will some systems have microbial life? Or even muticellular fauna and flora? I think intelligent life is too complex because then you would need a new AI.

5. Do you think there should be an additional "Galactic Era" after the Trans-Human Era?

1. These are only numbers attached to a tab in the screen, this won't slow down the game too much so I'd say limited to about 100 systems/objects

2. Maybe later, I'm hoping the first releases to be the basic math calculations for solar systems.

3. Yes, but I'm going to be starting with only systems then expand out to include other things.

4. I'm not going to add any of that for RoMiS, I'll save that for Alien Outbreak.

5. I can do that.

EDIT: The basic screen python file is nearing completion so I can start fiddling with tab layouts soon.

EDIT: The basic screen python file is nearing completion so I can start fiddling with tab layouts soon.

Cool! Show a screenshot as soon as you can.

gunna have to redo the screen, i think the tut i took it from is too outdated.

keep the ideas coming if you think there's anything left out.

keep the ideas coming if you think there's anything left out.

I have plenty of ideas I am just not sure what can be done and what we need to focus on. Like did you get a mock Space screen/menu to work?

Also i went over the game "Outpost" to see if i could use any of their ideas for this since the game is all about colonizing a planet. Here are some things maybe we could use.

Probes and Satellites
- Interstellar Probe (Locates Habitable Planets)
- Meteor Satellite (Scans the Sky for Incoming Meteors and Asteroids)
- Communications Satellite (Gives Communications Between Colonies and Satellites)
- Geological Penetration Probe (Marks Resources for Mining)
- Weather Satellite (Track the Planets Weather)
- Orbital Observer Satellite (Maps the Planet)

Robots and Vehicles
- RoboDozer
- RoboDigger
- RoboMiner
- Rover
- Cargo Truck
- Construction Vehicle
- Earthworker
- Evacuation Transport
- Repair Vehicle
- RoboSurveyor
- Scout

Colony Buildings
- Cargo Lander (Land Your Cargo to the Planet's Surface)
- Colonist Lander (Lands Your Colonists to the Planet's Surface)
- Tokamak Reactor (Provides Nuclear Power)
- Solar Array (Provides Solar Power)
- Life Support (Provides Breathable Air for the Colony)
- Agrodome (Provides food for the Colony)
- Command Center (Main Building of the Colony)
- DIRT [Disaster Instant Resonse Team] (Helps reduce damage in emergencies)
- Consumer Good Factory (Provides good for the colony)
- Vehicle Factory (Creates Robots and Rovers)
- Forum
- Garage (Repairs Vehicles and Robots)
- Geothermal Plant (Provides Geothermal Power)
- GORF [Garbage and Ore Recycling Facility] (Recycling Center)
- Guard Post
- Laboratory (Basic, Standard and Advanced)
- Medical Center
- Meteor Defense
- Nursery (For Kids)
- Observatory
- Recreational Facitlity
- Residence (Basic, Advanced, Reinforced)
- Robot Command Center
- Smelter
- Spaceport
- Storage Tanks
- trade Center
- University

Also the Outpost Wiki might be helpful.

Outpost Wiki
http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Main_Page

Note all these might not fit but I am just throwing out some ideas since you asked.

Colony Buildings
- Cargo Lander (Land Your Cargo to the Planet's Surface)
- Colonist Lander (Lands Your Colonists to the Planet's Surface)
- Tokamak Reactor (Provides Nuclear Power)
- Solar Array (Provides Solar Power)
- Life Support (Provides Breathable Air for the Colony)
- Agrodome (Provides food for the Colony)
- Command Center (Main Building of the Colony)
- DIRT [Disaster Instant Resonse Team] (Helps reduce damage in emergencies)
- Consumer Good Factory (Provides good for the colony)
- Vehicle Factory (Creates Robots and Rovers)
- Forum
- Garage (Repairs Vehicles and Robots)
- Geothermal Plant (Provides Geothermal Power)
- GORF [Garbage and Ore Recycling Facility] (Recycling Center)
- Guard Post
- Laboratory (Basic, Standard and Advanced)
- Medical Center
- Meteor Defense
- Nursery (For Kids)
- Observatory
- Recreational Facitlity
- Residence (Basic, Advanced, Reinforced)
- Robot Command Center
- Smelter
- Spaceport
- Storage Tanks
- trade Center
- University

Also the Outpost Wiki might be helpful.

Outpost Wiki
http://wiki.outpostuniverse.net/Main_Page

Note all these might not fit but I am just throwing out some ideas since you asked.

Also, the Final Frontier mod, although, I think most of the key buildings you mentioned.

Just a thought on vehicles, buildings, etc, the list seems pretty civilian. What military things are planned (Laser Satellite, Garrison, Invasion Transport, Automated Defenses, Space Bomber (Fun from Civ: CtP, a space platform which coated asteroids in metal which would survive the atmosphere and drop them on cities), etc.)

@Civ Fuehrer

I was thinking more about colonization and i think we should have diffrent planets, moons and asteroids give a diffrent number of city "slots". Thus when the player or AI try to colonize a planet, moon or asteroid only a limited number of colony cities can be built.

This way we can have them fight over them and then in turn have a % of the planet. Also if we got fancy we could even have those space colonies split up unto their own vassal nations or independent nations.

Yea I'm planning on turning this into a really fancy modmod but start with the basics which we've covered and get deeper and deeper into details with each passing version. Currently I'm trying to figure out the python for ANM since RevDCM 2.6 has appeared to have broken it. I'm thinking about pulling the 2.15 download from the site since it's completely faulty right now. Yes you have the nukes, but they don't do any special effects.

EDIT: Good new about RoMiS however is that since there are plenty of screens in game, chances are I won't have a problem with unknown python errors like I'm having with ANM since ANM doesn't have any folder in the entire game even remotely similar to it that I can base it on.

So for like version 1 should we just do basic stuff like have discovering the moon or a planet but not have any info on it or colonization? In short like having the menu and unlocking the tabs but that's all.

Pretty much, but that kind of version will only be alphas and betas. For alpha versions I will only release it to you or anyone willing to put in specific input on what should be added or if it's not working with other screens etc.
EDIT: I got ANM working again so I can start working on the screen python again.

Ok i have some idea on colonization ...

Moon Colonization
You colonize the same way you colonize on your homeworld with individual cities and individual Buildings.

Home Solar System Colonization
You are now starting to colonize planets, asteroids and other moons. Rather than worriying about individual buildings in a colony you have pre-made "colony arcologies" which land on te surface and have all the buildings needed already. In addition there could be other types of things such as mines, etc. But there is no micro managing buildings anymore.

Colonizing the Nearest Solar System
After sending probes you send out a "Planet Colonization Ship" to the nearest star system. This has bunch of "colonization arcologies" on it so you can colonizes an entire planet at once each time you send one.

Colonizing Other Solar Systems
The next step up you send out "Star Colonization Ships" these ships will colonize all the inhabitable planets at once sending down hundreds of "colony arcologies".

Colonization Beyond
We could keep expanding out with ones that colonize who sectors of space, then whole quadrants and then the entire galaxy. I think it might be too much beyond auto colonizing each star system.

Let me know what you think of this idea of mass colonization ships.

Ok i have some idea on colonization ...

Moon Colonization
You colonize the same way you colonize on your homeworld with individual cities and individual Buildings.

Home Solar System Colonization
You are now starting to colonize planets, asteroids and other moons. Rather than worriying about individual buildings in a colony you have pre-made "colony arcologies" which land on te surface and have all the buildings needed already. In addition there could be other types of things such as mines, etc. But there is no micro managing buildings anymore.

Colonizing the Nearest Solar System
After sending probes you send out a "Planet Colonization Ship" to the nearest star system. This has bunch of "colonization arcologies" on it so you can colonizes an entire planet at once each time you send one.

Colonizing Other Solar Systems
The next step up you send out "Star Colonization Ships" these ships will colonize all the inhabitable planets at once sending down hundreds of "colony arcologies".

Colonization Beyond
We could keep expanding out with ones that colonize who sectors of space, then whole quadrants and then the entire galaxy. I think it might be too much beyond auto colonizing each star system.

Let me know what you think of this idea of mass colonization ships.

Definitely like it:goodjob:. One thing I thought about though: when a civ builds the Apollo program, they claim the moon as their territory. How would civs that do not own the moon build bases on it? Or should we leave the fact out that the US claimed the moon as their territory when we won the space race to the moon against Russia?

One thing I thought about though: when a civ builds the Apollo program, they claim the moon as their territory. How would civs that do not own the moon build bases on it? Or should we leave the fact out that the US claimed the moon as their territory when we won the space race to the moon against Russia?

Well, if some non-US space program were to, right now, launch a manned mission to land on the moon, would we stop them because we've "claimed" the moon as "United States Territory"? I personally wouldn't think so; rather, ownership of land on the moon should be on a "staking a claim" basis, meaning that any space program wanting to colonize the moon would have to mark & enforce borders (on the moon), thus making the territory within those borders theirs, de facto. Likewise, any moon colonies in Civ4 would have borders defined by enforceability -- if you can claim and protect any land on the moon, then it is yours.

Naturally, a military presence is not the only option for enforcing borders on the moon. Diplomacy works just as well, if you can get everyone to agree on moon-borders, that is. It seems to have worked with Antarctica where military activity is banned and governments agree on allowing manned outposts. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System)

Definitely like it:goodjob:. One thing I thought about though: when a civ builds the Apollo program, they claim the moon as their territory. How would civs that do not own the moon build bases on it? Or should we leave the fact out that the US claimed the moon as their territory when we won the space race to the moon against Russia?

Yay! Glad you like it.

I think it would work where you would establish each "base" (aka city) on the moon. The moon would have limited amount of city slots. Once you establish your "base" then you would get to send new buildings to the "bases".

So for your example the US made a claim to the moon but have we made an actually moon base? Not really. Now before the "bases" were put on the moon we can have other things such as rovers, moon landers and taking moon walks. But all of this would be under exploration and not colonization.

I image each discovery having 3 stages ....

1. Exploration
Sending out Probes, Landers and Rovers.

2. Colonization
Establishing a base and then colonizing the world.

3. Production
Once the colonies are establish they send back resources, wealth and scientific knowledge. In addition one could eventually terraform at this stage.

So for say the moon you would ...

1. Send down rovers, a moon lander and do some moon walks.

2. Establish some moon colonies with buildings such as habitation pods, laboratories and even factories.

3. Once base is established you would get money (from tourism), beakers (from scientific knowledge), hammers (from low gravity factories), etc.

Note that having a moon base would be important to exploring space since low gravity production can allow for building spaceships easier.

Note that having a moon base would be important to exploring space since low gravity production can allow for building spaceships easier.

True, easier than assembling in orbit too since they won't have to worry about having perfect velocity, direction, etc.
EDIT: Also as I mentioned in an earlier post, the maintenance costs would be directly affected by water levels on that planet/moon. Say (this would be a random chance) that the moon doesn't have enough water (like what the LCROSS mission discovered a few weeks ago), the maintenance would go from 100g/t (gold per turn) to 5000g/t then through biological waste recycling, the maintenance would slowly decline to 100g/t. Distant planets however would not require maintenance(except for shipping of resources) since they can start their own economy but still be a part of your civ plus the fact that any distant planet would need sufficient water levels to start a new colony at such far distances.

True, easier than assembling in orbit too since they won't have to worry about having perfect velocity, direction, etc.
EDIT: Also as I mentioned in an earlier post, the maintenance costs would be directly affected by water levels on that planet/moon. Say (this would be a random chance) that the moon doesn't have enough water (like what the LCROSS mission discovered a few weeks ago), the maintenance would go from 100g/t (gold per turn) to 5000g/t then through biological waste recycling, the maintenance would slowly decline to 100g/t. Distant planets however would not require maintenance(except for shipping of resources) since they can start their own economy but still be a part of your civ plus the fact that any distant planet would need sufficient water levels to start a new colony at such far distances.

Collecting/Harvesting Ice Asteroids in the Asteroid Belt/Oort Cloud should reduce maintenance costs then since they could use the ice for water on dry planets. Note it would probably coast a bunch of hammers to do this but over time systems could redistribute water from space to the colonies. I think this method should probbly becomes its own new tech on the tech tree.

In fact there will be many new "space techs" we should add on the tech tree. Some should be put throughout the existing tech tree from advanced rocketry on. Wile other later trans-human techs should probably get pushed back into the new "Space Era". Mainly ones like "Space Colonies" and "Interstellar Travel". Some ideas for new techs ...

- Lunar Exploration (Allows for probes and rovers to explore the Moon)
- Lunar Colonization (Allows for colonies to be established on the Moon)
- Low Gravity Manufacturing (Allows for spaceship factories to be built on the Moon)

- Planetary Exploration (Allows for probes and rovers to explore planets in your solar system)
- Planetary Colonization (Allows for colonies to be established within your solar system)

- Asteroid Mining (Allows for the asteroid Belt to be Mined)

There are many more. We should really start planning all the new techs out since we is so much we could do with it.

Can't believe this escaped my attention for two weeks. ;)

A question first: is this mod supposed to start from the ancient era with tech progression towards the space exploration/colonization part, or does it start from the modern/future era?

In any case, good ideas here and the basics sound realistic. However, since the plan is to have a bit of a random solar system I wonder why you would restrict yourself to the standard 'habitable planet with a moon in orbit'. How about the home planet's location depend on the mapsize? For instance tiny/small sized maps could be considered a home'moon' orbiting on a safe distance (radiationwise) from a gas giant near or in the habitable zone of a sun. And the larger the size of the map, the more chance for multiple and large moons orbiting the homeworld (planet in this case). And dependent on the kind of star(s) in the system, there could be more then one planet in the habitable zone(s).
I've seen some discussion on whether or not other civs could also establish colonies on an already inhabited planet/moon. Whether or not this is allowed could be tied in the game as a UN-council proposal. Let's say the proposal becomes viable once the first civ created the Apollo Program. Same with space stuff that let large chunks of matter like asteroids or ice-comets be diverted in orbit of the homeworld. There's always the risk of miscalculation or technical problem nudging such stuff in orbit and let the whole thing crash downwards. ;)
Of course, defying a proposal is an option, but penalties from the other civs might become more severe the higher the risk for the whole homeworld. :D
Some other thing. The habitability of a planet is of course mostly determined by the distance from its sun. But size could also play a role. For instance, I've read somewhere that if Venus and Mars where in each other's orbits their hospitality towards life would be increased significantly.

This modmod will start in the ancient era with tech progression, this is a RoM future modmod not a future mod by itself. Nice ideas, I'll definitely add them to the todo list.

Can't believe this escaped my attention for two weeks. ;)

A question first: is this mod supposed to start from the ancient era with tech progression towards the space exploration/colonization part, or does it start from the modern/future era?

In any case, good ideas here and the basics sound realistic. However, since the plan is to have a bit of a random solar system I wonder why you would restrict yourself to the standard 'habitable planet with a moon in orbit'. How about the home planet's location depend on the mapsize? For instance tiny/small sized maps could be considered a home'moon' orbiting on a safe distance (radiationwise) from a gas giant near or in the habitable zone of a sun. And the larger the size of the map, the more chance for multiple and large moons orbiting the homeworld (planet in this case). And dependent on the kind of star(s) in the system, there could be more then one planet in the habitable zone(s).
I've seen some discussion on whether or not other civs could also establish colonies on an already inhabited planet/moon. Whether or not this is allowed could be tied in the game as a UN-council proposal. Let's say the proposal becomes viable once the first civ created the Apollo Program. Same with space stuff that let large chunks of matter like asteroids or ice-comets be diverted in orbit of the homeworld. There's always the risk of miscalculation or technical problem nudging such stuff in orbit and let the whole thing crash downwards. ;)
Of course, defying a proposal is an option, but penalties from the other civs might become more severe the higher the risk for the whole homeworld. :D
Some other thing. The habitability of a planet is of course mostly determined by the distance from its sun. But size could also play a role. For instance, I've read somewhere that if Venus and Mars where in each other's orbits their hospitality towards life would be increased significantly.

I cannot speak for Civ Fuehrer but I will do my best to answer the reasoning for my suggestions.

1. Yes I would like to have it track astronomical science throughout history, be it stargazing, astrology or even as recent has lunar exploration. In addition I would like to add a new era after the trans-human era called the "Intergalactic Era" which would involve the colonization of space beyond our solar system. Basiclly ...

Modern Era = Moon Colonization
Trans-Human Era = Home Solar System Colonization
Intergalactic Era = Colonization of Other Star Systems.

2. The main reason for starting everyone off with an Earth-like planet with at least one moon is so history nd in turn the tech tree stays the same. Orbiting a huge Gas Giant would change human history, culture and religion. In addition other factors play a part. One is having a moon gives us tides and protects us from asteroids. Note we also would have at least one gas giant in the solar system to attract asteroids to. If we were orbiting a gas giant we would risk being hit by asteroids all the time since the planet would pull more towards us. In addition our sun would stay the same. In short all of these factors that make Earth, how it is today is staying the same since changing it could result in a much diffrent Earth, evolution and civilization then we currently have.

3. I do like your ideas of map size effecting things. Perhaps map size could effect the number of planets/moons in the solar system to discover.

4. As for inhabiting a planet that's already occupied. I would say it would be free to set up bases on until all slots were filled up. beyond that you would probably have to fight them for the currently filled up spots. Such as using asteroid weapons to bombard their cities. Or the old send in the troops to invade method. Or heck maybe even just buy the city through trade negotiations.

5. I think the UN should eventually become obsolete for a Star Trek-like Federation of Planets since it will not just be nations on Earth but nations on planets/moons in the solar systems and beyond.

6. That's a good point. Planet habitation should be worked out. Especially when teraforming tech comes around and you could change its "T Score" to a more hospitable climate.

Now that I think about it, I'd have to agree with Hydro. However the map size could play a role in what size planets are more easily colonizeable due to gravity differentials like if the home world exerts 6.5m/s/s of gravity (Earth exerts 9.8) then planets with 6-7 would be ideal to those weak-legged citizens while home worlds that exert 12.8m/s/s would have an ideal gravity 8-13 since those people wouldn't want to lose muscle mass and work out 7 hours a day like the astronauts currently taking residency in the international space station.

Rather than having one menu/screen i think we should have 3; Moon, Solar System and Galaxy.

Moon Menu (Target Usage during the Modern Era)
It would statistics on the moon and a set number of "base" (aka city) slots depending upon the map size you picked. less for small maps and more or larger maps. Each "base" would have info on what buildings were built in it. It would also eventually have information on building more advanced spaceships in its low gravity manufacturing plant.

Solar System Menu (Target Usage during the Trans-Human Era)
This too would have more or less planets and moons depending upon the map you picked. Rather than having a tab for each "base" like on the moon menu you would have a tab for each planet, moon and even the asteroid belt. On these you would still build "bases" within a limited number of slots but you would not worry about the buildings within each base. Because by then you will have discovered how to make "colony arcologies" which have all the buildings in one. Note you can also plane other things like mining the asteroid belt or begin terraforming planets to be more habitable. You will be learning ow to harvest all available resources in the solar system. You might even find microscopic life within your solar system.

Galaxy Menu (Target Usage during the Galactic Era)
This will have star system tabs rather than planet or moon tabs. You will no longer set up individual colony bases but send out mass galactic colonization ships which colonize and terraform entire solar systems. You are nearly godlike by this stage and will make your way to colonize the entire galaxy. You will work on quicker methods to spread such as wormhole technology. You will learn how to harness all available resources in the galaxy be it the stars themselves to nebula gasses. You might even discover alien fauna and flora. However intelligent life will not be found since that would be too complex to simulate.

2. The main reason for starting everyone off with an Earth-like planet with at least one moon is so history nd in turn the tech tree stays the same. Orbiting a huge Gas Giant would change human history, culture and religion. In addition other factors play a part. One is having a moon gives us tides and protects us from asteroids. Note we also would have at least one gas giant in the solar system to attract asteroids to. If we were orbiting a gas giant we would risk being hit by asteroids all the time since the planet would pull more towards us. In addition our sun would stay the same. In short all of these factors that make Earth, how it is today is staying the same since changing it could result in a much diffrent Earth, evolution and civilization then we currently have.

You're too right that putting humanity on the moon of a gas giant would definitely change their outlook towards the universe from the beginning.
On your comment that the moon gives the Earth shelter for incoming 'roids, that's quite farflung. Almost all incoming meteors are on a course which never even crosses Lunar orbit, let alone that the moon happens to be on the right spot when one accidently does cross its orbit. Even gravity-wise the moon can't divert much meteors. So considering the moon as rockshelter isn't the best of ideas.

3. I do like your ideas of map size effecting things. Perhaps map size could effect the number of planets/moons in the solar system to discover.

To offer another swing at tiny/small planets (maps), you could always think of the homeworld orbiting a so-called "superearth" instead of a gas giant. If I remember correctly a superearth can have almost 10 times Earth's mass without becoming a gas giant in the inner parts of a solar system. It's simply a dense ball of rock then, perhaps a quarter larger then Earth. I suppose a mars-sized habitable 'moon' around a superearth isn't the likeliest of things, but as far as we know so is a moon orbiting a planet with barely 4 times its size (the Earth-moon situation). Of course, the Apollo program might be a little difficult then with a superearth involved. ;)
But it does solve the smaller maps, you still have a big 'moon' in the sky for humanity to wonder about, and if the superearth is far enough from the homeworld tidal forces can resemble earth's as we know them. But it's your call of course.

4. As for inhabiting a planet that's already occupied. I would say it would be free to set up bases on until all slots were filled up. beyond that you would probably have to fight them for the currently filled up spots. Such as using asteroid weapons to bombard their cities. Or the old send in the troops to invade method. Or heck maybe even just buy the city through trade negotiations.

I brought this UN proposal in because of the real UN's Outer Space Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty). I thought it could give the ingame UN Council a bit more to offer the player.

5. I think the UN should eventually become obsolete for a Star Trek-like Federation of Planets since it will not just be nations on Earth but nations on planets/moons in the solar systems and beyond.

If your tech tree includes cheap interstellar transport -and communication, and continues a couple of centuries beyond the modern era I'd say go for it.
But I wonder if you'd considered the opposite: all those colonies getting tired of the motherworld's influence and going off on their own, especially when transport is relatively cheap/easy, and literally millionsor even billions of people live on other worlds. That is hard to emulate with just a few screens.

6. That's a good point. Planet habitation should be worked out. Especially when teraforming tech comes around and you could change its "T Score" to a more hospitable climate.

Also, if more then one nation establishes colonies on said terraformable world, I'd say an agreement between all participants must be reached before it starts. Again something that can be used as a UN proposal or on the diplomacy screen level.

Now that I think about it, I'd have to agree with Hydro. However the map size could play a role in what size planets are more easily colonizeable due to gravity differentials like if the home world exerts 6.5m/s/s of gravity (Earth exerts 9.8) then planets with 6-7 would be ideal to those weak-legged citizens while home worlds that exert 12.8m/s/s would have an ideal gravity 8-13 since those people wouldn't want to lose muscle mass and work out 7 hours a day like the astronauts currently taking residency in the international space station.

You guys are the mod's creators, I only put my thoughts about the matter here. ;)
The general rule is that lower-g worlds might appeal better to would-be colonists, especially in the early beginning when colonists will mostly consist of people with proven abilities, which will likely be older people (from their forties onwards). Unfortunately our solar system doesn't have a higher-gravity world which we can walk upon so there's no example to make statistics about. In any case, lower-grav worlds would be prime targets for early manned space programs because of the significantly lower fuel costs.
On your comment about gravity health reasons, there's always the coriolis force solution for that. :D You could have 2 kinds of space/orbital bases: the sort like the ISS and the sort with a rotating section to simulate a gravity field to your liking. Heck, even coasting spaceships could have a rotating section.

Rather than having one menu/screen i think we should have 3; Moon, Solar System and Galaxy.

Moon Menu (Target Usage during the Modern Era)
It would statistics on the moon and a set number of "base" (aka city) slots depending upon the map size you picked. less for small maps and more or larger maps. Each "base" would have info on what buildings were built in it. It would also eventually have information on building more advanced spaceships in its low gravity manufacturing plant.

Solar System Menu (Target Usage during the Trans-Human Era)
This too would have more or less planets and moons depending upon the map you picked. Rather than having a tab for each "base" like on the moon menu you would have a tab for each planet, moon and even the asteroid belt. On these you would still build "bases" within a limited number of slots but you would not worry about the buildings within each base. Because by then you will have discovered how to make "colony arcologies" which have all the buildings in one. Note you can also plane other things like mining the asteroid belt or begin terraforming planets to be more habitable. You will be learning ow to harvest all available resources in the solar system. You might even find microscopic life within your solar system.

Galaxy Menu (Target Usage during the Galactic Era)
This will have star system tabs rather than planet or moon tabs. You will no longer set up individual colony bases but send out mass galactic colonization ships which colonize and terraform entire solar systems. You are nearly godlike by this stage and will make your way to colonize the entire galaxy. You will work on quicker methods to spread such as wormhole technology. You will learn how to harness all available resources in the galaxy be it the stars themselves to nebula gasses. You might even discover alien fauna and flora. However intelligent life will not be found since that would be too complex to simulate.

I repeat my suggestion of a space screen that looks similar to the tech screen. Using logrythmetic scale means that the whole universe will fit :)

You're too right that putting humanity on the moon of a gas giant would definitely change their outlook towards the universe from the beginning.
On your comment that the moon gives the Earth shelter for incoming 'roids, that's quite farflung. Almost all incoming meteors are on a course which never even crosses Lunar orbit, let alone that the moon happens to be on the right spot when one accidently does cross its orbit. Even gravity-wise the moon can't divert much meteors. So considering the moon as rockshelter isn't the best of ideas.



To offer another swing at tiny/small planets (maps), you could always think of the homeworld orbiting a so-called "superearth" instead of a gas giant. If I remember correctly a superearth can have almost 10 times Earth's mass without becoming a gas giant in the inner parts of a solar system. It's simply a dense ball of rock then, perhaps a quarter larger then Earth. I suppose a mars-sized habitable 'moon' around a superearth isn't the likeliest of things, but as far as we know so is a moon orbiting a planet with barely 4 times its size (the Earth-moon situation). Of course, the Apollo program might be a little difficult then with a superearth involved. ;)
But it does solve the smaller maps, you still have a big 'moon' in the sky for humanity to wonder about, and if the superearth is far enough from the homeworld tidal forces can resemble earth's as we know them. But it's your call of course.



I brought this UN proposal in because of the real UN's Outer Space Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty). I thought it could give the ingame UN Council a bit more to offer the player.



If your tech tree includes cheap interstellar transport -and communication, and continues a couple of centuries beyond the modern era I'd say go for it.
But I wonder if you'd considered the opposite: all those colonies getting tired of the motherworld's influence and going off on their own, especially when transport is relatively cheap/easy, and literally millionsor even billions of people live on other worlds. That is hard to emulate with just a few screens.



Also, if more then one nation establishes colonies on said terraformable world, I'd say an agreement between all participants must be reached before it starts. Again something that can be used as a UN proposal or on the diplomacy screen level.



You guys are the mod's creators, I only put my thoughts about the matter here. ;)
The general rule is that lower-g worlds might appeal better to would-be colonists, especially in the early beginning when colonists will mostly consist of people with proven abilities, which will likely be older people (from their forties onwards). Unfortunately our solar system doesn't have a higher-gravity world which we can walk upon so there's no example to make statistics about. In any case, lower-grav worlds would be prime targets for early manned space programs because of the significantly lower fuel costs.
On your comment about gravity health reasons, there's always the coriolis force solution for that. :D You could have 2 kinds of space/orbital bases: the sort like the ISS and the sort with a rotating section to simulate a gravity field to your liking. Heck, even coasting spaceships could have a rotating section.

1. Unlike other moons our moon is quite large incomparable to other planets. Which means its more likely to protect us for asteroids. However your right that it cann;t protect us from everything which is why gas giants like Jupiter are so important to bring in the big guys and our own atmosphere to burn up the little guys. Its the middle guys that we need to worry about.

2. Same answer as before that any nearby thing in the sky besides the sun and the moon would greatly change human culture, religion and how we view the cosmos. In short i would like to keep the homeworld as Earth-like as possible. Beyond that it can be much diffrent.

3. Cool! :D

4. Indeed it will be hard. But hopefully by then we will be using the "Powers of 10" to simulate large complex systems in relatively simple terms. For example me proposing that within our home solar system that you no longer micromanage buildings on colony bases. And then ones you spread to other stars you no longer micromanage bases but individual planets within the star system.

5. I agree and like those ideas.

Hmm. A tech styled screen that would open up to solar system screens when you click on a button, ours be to the very left, galactic core at the very right. The only problem about this however is that there would have to be preset systems since I can't just have the game add entries, and if I could it would be one of the last things I'd be able to code yet the first things I would have to code as a base.
EDIT: I think I might actually be able to play this weekend! :eek:
EDIT2: Well it looks like my playtime was cut short since I was given the ultimate non-victory condition game ender and don't feel like starting another right now.

To jumpstart this thing I need to talk about the screen layout. I've been giving this some thought. The screen originally proposed by Hydro would be unethical due to how much you would have to scroll for anything. The screen proposed by Dancing Hoskuld would be better however the game can't add new entries in that format so there would have to be preset systems and treat it like another tech screen. The bad thing about this is that the space stage would be very predictable in the way of discoveries. So instead, I was thinking of a Civilopedia format. The first column would be star systems / objects, the next column after selecting one is the planets and features of that system or object. Selecting a planet would show the info that you have gathered. This is a lot better since not only can a lot of stuff be shown in this format but so can info and the image of that planet(I can just use the python that is used to display the generic planet when selecting the size etc at game start but with different terrain dds's depending on info).

To jumpstart this thing I need to talk about the screen layout. I've been giving this some thought. The screen originally proposed by Hydro would be unethical due to how much you would have to scroll for anything. The screen proposed by Dancing Hoskuld would be better however the game can't add new entries in that format so there would have to be preset systems and treat it like another tech screen. The bad thing about this is that the space stage would be very predictable in the way of discoveries. So instead, I was thinking of a Civilopedia format. The first column would be star systems / objects, the next column after selecting one is the planets and features of that system or object. Selecting a planet would show the info that you have gathered. This is a lot better since not only can a lot of stuff be shown in this format but so can info and the image of that planet(I can just use the python that is used to display the generic planet when selecting the size etc at game start but with different terrain dds's depending on info).

So you don't like this idea?

Rather than having one menu/screen i think we should have 3; Moon, Solar System and Galaxy.

Moon Menu (Target Usage during the Modern Era)
It would statistics on the moon and a set number of "base" (aka city) slots depending upon the map size you picked. less for small maps and more or larger maps. Each "base" would have info on what buildings were built in it. It would also eventually have information on building more advanced spaceships in its low gravity manufacturing plant.

Solar System Menu (Target Usage during the Trans-Human Era)
This too would have more or less planets and moons depending upon the map you picked. Rather than having a tab for each "base" like on the moon menu you would have a tab for each planet, moon and even the asteroid belt. On these you would still build "bases" within a limited number of slots but you would not worry about the buildings within each base. Because by then you will have discovered how to make "colony arcologies" which have all the buildings in one. Note you can also plane other things like mining the asteroid belt or begin terraforming planets to be more habitable. You will be learning ow to harvest all available resources in the solar system. You might even find microscopic life within your solar system.

Galaxy Menu (Target Usage during the Galactic Era)
This will have star system tabs rather than planet or moon tabs. You will no longer set up individual colony bases but send out mass galactic colonization ships which colonize and terraform entire solar systems. You are nearly godlike by this stage and will make your way to colonize the entire galaxy. You will work on quicker methods to spread such as wormhole technology. You will learn how to harness all available resources in the galaxy be it the stars themselves to nebula gasses. You might even discover alien fauna and flora. However intelligent life will not be found since that would be too complex to simulate.

Also what is "unethical" about it?

@Civ Fuehrer

Here is what we could do for the moon menu. You separate the moon int 4 quadrants each with 8 base slots. When the slots are occupied you can click on them for more information. Like the manufacturing of the spaceship you would make "lunar modules" to launch into space and lad on the mood to add to each base. Eventually some buildings could produce things such as spaceships for colonizing other planets.

Note that only the Moon would have the buildings. When colonizing other planets you would have a similar menu but of the solar system. And you would be micromanaging bases rather than buildings like in this. Thus you would send up entire manufactured bases for other planets.

EDIT I added a Solar System Image too for an example.

@ Hydromancerx
I like what you're doing but it's beginning to go beyond my coding abilities i.e. info pop-ups when hovering a mouse over it or slots on a terrain map. I'll put up a pic of what I'm talking about in a bit.
EDIT: Okay I finished the screen I was thinking of, just be warned this is a photoshop image not the real deal. Also I wanted to order the left side by discovery first but I was too lazy to change the blue highlights.

@ Hydromancerx
I like what you're doing but it's beginning to go beyond my coding abilities i.e. info pop-ups when hovering a mouse over it or slots on a terrain map. I'll put up a pic of what I'm talking about in a bit.
EDIT: Okay I finished the screen I was thinking of, just be warned this is a photoshop image not the real deal. Also I wanted to order the left side by discovery first but I was too lazy to change the blue highlights.

Oooo! I love the concept image!

So are we going to have real planets like shown or have made up ones? If so will they be randomly named like cities and can they be named by the player too?

Also if you are doing it like this will everything be micromanaged or re you going use my expending out idea?

Micromanage Idea
You build "bases" just like cities and must also build buildings in each base. This is how it is forever in the game no matter how many planets you find beyond your own solar system.

Expanding Idea
The Moon of your planet starts out like the Micromanage Idea, but once you get to colonizing other planets in your solar system you no longer worry about making individual buildings and each base is made with everything pre-made in it. And when you expand beyond your solar system you no longer worry about each base but only worry about individual planets where whole star systems are colonized at once with pre-made bases that colonize every inhabitable planet in the solar system.

Oooo! I love the concept image!

So are we going to have real planets like shown or have made up ones? If so will they be randomly named like cities and can they be named by the player too?

Also if you are doing it like this will everything be micromanaged or re you going use my expending out idea?

Micromanage Idea
You build "bases" just like cities and must also build buildings in each base. This is how it is forever in the game no matter how many planets you find beyond your own solar system.

Expanding Idea
The Moon of your planet starts out like the Micromanage Idea, but once you get to colonizing other planets in your solar system you no longer worry about making individual buildings and each base is made with everything pre-made in it. And when you expand beyond your solar system you no longer worry about each base but only worry about individual planets where whole star systems are colonized at once with pre-made bases that colonize every inhabitable planet in the solar system.

1. Thank you, I take it that's the go-ahead on that screen.

2. Made up ones with generically colored planets depending on water level, temp etc but those weren't shown since it's only the concept image. I was going to use BUG's random name engine for planets, stars etc with a few preset names like Alpha Centauri, Sirius, etc. and renaming will be possible.

3. Expanding, even for the moon. Send the settler, it'll be on auto pilot to expand, using your resources. The moon is a special case since normally the colonies would automatically expand itself across a foreign planet, but it will stay one colony for the other nations for a chance but you're able to settle more than one colony for any planet/moon too. Later on when planetary colonizing packs tech comes about and the civ has enough money for it you can 'build' the resource shuttle to send to the moon which will trigger your colony's factory to build the colony pack rocket.

EDIT: One thing I still can't figure out how to go about doing without making it look extremely cheesy is for example you finish making a terraforming rover, send it to Mars, and wait a couple dozen turns for it to completely turn Mars into a water rich planet. The generic planet in the 3d pane would then change from a red ball to a green and blue ball, but the landmasses would be completely different than what the previous image was.

@ Civ Fuehrer

So wait they are autonomous? Most planets would not have enough resources to expand on its own. You would have to supplement them with shipments of resources. Be it mined ore or water from the asteroid belt or resources directly from your homeworld.

As for terraforming I think a terraforming rover would be much too small. You would need an enitre building complex. Like huge machines in "Total Recall" or "Sim Earth". Here are some ideas for terraforming buildings based on "Sim Earth" and "Spore".

Sim Earth
- Biome Factory - Creates plants.
- Oxygenator - Takes CO2 out and puts O2 in. Helps cool off hot planets.
- N2 Generator - Helps increase the planets atmosphere, thus help warming up a planet too with a thicker atmosphere.
- Vaporator - Spewes water vapor (aka H2O) into the atmosphere, thus increasing the humidity of the planet.
- CO2 Generator - Put CO2 in the atmosphere thus creating more of a greenhouse effect.

Spore on the other hand is based off you riding around in a UFO and have various tools of ranging levels to either add or subtract atmosphere and either make it hotter or colder. These range from beam weapons to even generators like in Sim Earth. They even have summoning asteroids, ice comets and volcanoes.

I think we can do terraforming a number of ways. You can either terraform before they colonize or after. If you terraform before then you can use tools like pushing ice comets to the planet in order add water to the planet. However its side effect would be lowering the temperature and loosing some atmosphere.

We could also introduce volcanology tech and eventually use it not only for studying volcanoes on your homeworld but for terraforming. By making artificial volcanoes on the planet it will increase it atmosphere and temperature. We should also maybe add a seismology tech if we are going to be introducing volcanology.

So basically early terraforming would use asteroids, ice comets and volcanoes along with seeding microbes, fauna and flora from your homeworld. Then more advanced techs could be added as terraforming improves. Such as making a "terraforming factory" which can do all these things automatically.

Anywho back to your question I would say if there were already bases on the planet that they would risk being flooded with sea level rise or even possibly invent a way for Underwater Cities. I would hope that we can eventually develop self sustaining "Colony Arcologies" which can exist no matter what the planet is like.

EDIT: Okay I finished the screen I was thinking of, just be warned this is a photoshop image not the real deal. Also I wanted to order the left side by discovery first but I was too lazy to change the blue highlights.

Beautiful concept screen, Civ Fueher. :goodjob:

2. Made up ones with generically colored planets depending on water level, temp etc but those weren't shown since it's only the concept image. I was going to use BUG's random name engine for planets, stars etc with a few preset names like Alpha Centauri, Sirius, etc. and renaming will be possible.

Is it possible to let the engine choose between a list of generic pictures? Also for before and after terraformation if that happens?

EDIT: One thing I still can't figure out how to go about doing without making it look extremely cheesy is for example you finish making a terraforming rover, send it to Mars, and wait a couple dozen turns for it to completely turn Mars into a water rich planet. The generic planet in the 3d pane would then change from a red ball to a green and blue ball, but the landmasses would be completely different than what the previous image was.

I think we can do terraforming a number of ways. You can either terraform before they colonize or after. If you terraform before then you can use tools like pushing ice comets to the planet in order add water to the planet. However its side effect would be lowering the temperature and loosing some atmosphere.

I'd say that usually terraformation happens after a fair amount of colonies are established. After all, you'd need supervision on-site for alot of the efforts. Also you could say that the more people/colonies on a planet, the faster terraformation goes. Or even put up a slider on how much resources the various colonies/civs pour into terraforming the planet, again determining how quick progress it. On ice comets: if you break them up in smaller pieces upon entry in the atmosphere there's no harm to the surface. At least, in Kim Robinson's Mars trilogy they use this way of thickening the atmosphere.

We could also introduce volcanology tech and eventually use it not only for studying volcanoes on your homeworld but for terraforming. By making artificial volcanoes on the planet it will increase it atmosphere and temperature. We should also maybe add a seismology tech if we are going to be introducing volcanology.

This depends on whether the target planet has plate tectonics. In our system, only Earth (and perhaps still Venus) meets these criteria. Mars for instance has been tectonically dead for billions of years. Size and age of the planet are the things to look at here.

Anywho back to your question I would say if there were already bases on the planet that they would risk being flooded with sea level rise or even possibly invent a way for Underwater Cities. I would hope that we can eventually develop self sustaining "Colony Arcologies" which can exist no matter what the planet is like.

Welcome to Thalassia. Please show your Reef Visa before entering the Scuba Vehicle. :D

@ Civ Fuehrer

So wait they are autonomous? Most planets would not have enough resources to expand on its own. You would have to supplement them with shipments of resources. Be it mined ore or water from the asteroid belt or resources directly from your homeworld.

As for terraforming I think a terraforming rover would be much too small. You would need an enitre building complex. Like huge machines in "Total Recall" or "Sim Earth". Here are some ideas for terraforming buildings based on "Sim Earth" and "Spore".

Sim Earth
- Biome Factory - Creates plants.
- Oxygenator - Takes CO2 out and puts O2 in. Helps cool off hot planets.
- N2 Generator - Helps increase the planets atmosphere, thus help warming up a planet too with a thicker atmosphere.
- Vaporator - Spewes water vapor (aka H2O) into the atmosphere, thus increasing the humidity of the planet.
- CO2 Generator - Put CO2 in the atmosphere thus creating more of a greenhouse effect.

I think we can do terraforming a number of ways. You can either terraform before they colonize or after. If you terraform before then you can use tools like pushing ice comets to the planet in order add water to the planet. However its side effect would be lowering the temperature and loosing some atmosphere.

We could also introduce volcanology tech and eventually use it not only for studying volcanoes on your homeworld but for terraforming. By making artificial volcanoes on the planet it will increase it atmosphere and temperature. We should also maybe add a seismology tech if we are going to be introducing volcanology.

So basically early terraforming would use asteroids, ice comets and volcanoes along with seeding microbes, fauna and flora from your homeworld. Then more advanced techs could be added as terraforming improves. Such as making a "terraforming factory" which can do all these things automatically.

Anywho back to your question I would say if there were already bases on the planet that they would risk being flooded with sea level rise or even possibly invent a way for Underwater Cities. I would hope that we can eventually develop self sustaining "Colony Arcologies" which can exist no matter what the planet is like.

1. Yup, but if a planet does, then they can get their own.

2. Who said a rover is limited in how big it can be? I'm thinking of the big-ass terraforming rover platforms like shown at the beginning of the movie Serenity.

3. Those are just about spot-on

4. I'd go with what Geo said

5. again Geo

6. Sounds right

7. I don't see any question marks in my last post but I would think it would be protocol to settle on higher land if the planet was to be terraformed later.
http://sftdb.com/images/se20050930teraformingunit_small.jpg here's the rover platform, you can't really see the size in this screen shot but it pans out and this thing is half the size of a mountain, and it moves.

I just had a thought: if there was micromanaging for anything other than the main planet, that's already too much for any person to handle in the way of making turns take a half hour just to get to the end of that turn. Also if I put anything (with the exception of the moon since you will be controlling it's colony's production directly through building resource shuttles) on auto it will be extremely repetitive. So I thought of having a hybrid system. In the first slot where 'galactic core' is in the concept image you will have 'Building Queues' and this page is dedicated to 5 different building queue concepts each able to be renamed. Under each building queue you will be able to make for example "factory queue" which will then allow you to assign all your colonies on a specific planet/object to build buildings in a specific order which then on each planet page you can assign that planet one out of the five building queues for all of your colonies to autopilot itself on that planet/object or entire solar system if selected through the system's sun(s) page. For example on the concept image you press Sol instead of earth you can set the specific building queue for all of the colony planets of the Sol solar system.

@Civ Fuehrer

Yeah I have no idea what to do about production. Unlike the building of th spaceship these colonies would be able to make things as well, not just sending things up into space.

Okay, so I think I have it figured out for the most part but I'm going to have to have it as a display tab on the Civilopedia screen instead of it's own screen for two reasons:
a. I still don't know where to put in the UI button
b. I'm pretty sure that the UI button falls into the bug discovered by GeneralStaff's early buildings.

Also some python parts of this modmod will not be modular since it will have to delete the ship tab in the victory conditions screen in order to make a new space race victory.

Okay, so I think I have it figured out for the most part but I'm going to have to have it as a display tab on the Civilopedia screen instead of it's own screen for two reasons:
a. I still don't know where to put in the UI button
b. I'm pretty sure that the UI button falls into the bug discovered by GeneralStaff's early buildings.

Also some python parts of this modmod will not be modular since it will have to delete the ship tab in the victory conditions screen in order to make a new space race victory.

Ok sounds reasonable. Thanks for the update and keep letting us know how you are doing. I am resistant to post any more ideas until I see how you basic design works.

Just to let y'all know I'm taking a break from Civilization modding for a couple weeks plus my internet's gunna go down for another week on top of that to upgrade it. So I haven't started any code for the new tab but as I said I may have figured out how to implement it. So see ya in a few weeks.

Just to let y'all know I'm taking a break from Civilization modding for a couple weeks plus my internet's gunna go down for another week on top of that to upgrade it. So I haven't started any code for the new tab but as I said I may have figured out how to implement it. So see ya in a few weeks.

That's too bad. Hope you get your internet back. Don't go through too many internet withdrawals while you are away.

Just to let y'all know I'm taking a break from Civilization modding for a couple weeks plus my internet's gunna go down for another week on top of that to upgrade it. So I haven't started any code for the new tab but as I said I may have figured out how to implement it. So see ya in a few weeks.

So maybe December-ish planning can resume on this?

yea that sounds about right... My internet has been upgraded but I need to catch up on all my HW that can only be done on the internet that i've missed.

I like the idea :D

Pertaining to planets; how should they be put in? The three ways I can think of are python, hardcoded DLL and softcoded DLL. Python is fairly easy but will slow down gameplay majorly whenever you discover a planet. No. 2 is hardcoding the DLL which is also easy but poses major problems for compatibility with other modmods that have DLL's (Afforess's mostly) or No. 3, giving them an XML file of their own which not only requires the most work but would also require preset planet types instead of making code make it up on the fly.

Pertaining to planets; how should they be put in? The three ways I can think of are python, hardcoded DLL and softcoded DLL. Python is fairly easy but will slow down gameplay majorly whenever you discover a planet. No. 2 is hardcoding the DLL which is also easy but poses major problems for compatibility with other modmods that have DLL's (Afforess's mostly) or No. 3, giving them an XML file of their own which not only requires the most work but would also require preset planet types instead of making code make it up on the fly.

Well I think from the beginning you should try to make it compatible with Afforess's "A New Dawn" as possible. Even if it is not added to it it could at least become a "modmodmod" for it.

In short the 3 main goals should be ...

1. Compatibility with A.N.D.

2. Keep as much speed as possible.

3. Stay to our plans to the best of our ability.

@Civ Fuehrer

Anything new on this?

@Civ Fuehrer

Anything new on this?

yea, flo charts and pseudocode, this isn't just a little xml tag to be easily added man, it needs some thought to the code's infrastructure. It needs to be flexible and moddable if anyone else would want to add on to it (mostly for alien outbreak or whatever it might have). Above all it needs to be able to do what I want it to do.

Okay, so I've sorted some ideas out on the guts, it's also my todo list. Chances are I'll end up having to make a subforum for this since this is going to be a virtual expansion pack. The numbers with decimals are the steps I forgot to add first time making the list and am too lazy to change all the numbers.

1. Add techs to tech tree
2. Add units
2.1. add buildings
3. make screen viewable
4. add planet type XML file (varies from gas giants to asteroid belts) and custom schema (won't be easy but runs fast and compatible)
5. add star type XML file (varies all types of stars in sizes, color, brightness and age(including supernova & black hole stages) and add to custom schema
6. add custom planets schema entries to DLL
7. add colonies XML and colony schema
8. add colony schema to DLL
9. add colony names to CivilizationInfos and schema
10. add new CivilizationInfos schema entries to DLL
11. add micromanageable building queues XML and colony buildings schema
12. add new schema entries to DLL
12.1. add spacecraft XML & schema
12.2. add spacecraft XML schema entries to DLL
13. add colony buildings XML & schema
14. add new schema entries to DLL
14.1. add new techinfos & unitinfos XML tags and add them to schemas
14.2. add new xml tags to DLL
15. add star system config python file.(ties planets together with stars with zones and distances)(using python to attempt to retain compatibility with AND)
15.1. add planetary stats config python file.(makes the planets' gravity, avg temperature, age, populace, tectonics, etc do something.)
16. tie colonies to planets, buildings to building queues, buildings to colonies, building queues to planets, and building queues to star systems.
16.1. tie spacecrafts to colonies, interplanetary/intergalactic distances, travel times, etc
17. configure spacepedia layout
18. add new 'civilopedia 3d pane' type, attach it to spacepedia
19. add spacepedia's ability to add new entries upon space object discovery
20. add space object discovery random events
21. add AI knowledge to get AI to build and expand into space
22. add xml tags to leadertraits and schema
23. add tags to DLL
24. add new entry types to civilopedia for spacecrafts, planet types and star types
25. add planet builds XML and schema (improvements for planets)
26. add new schema to DLL
27. anything else?

Yay for triple posting:sarcasm: but I'm thinking of renaming the Mod from RoMiS (Rise of Mankind in Space) to something else since after all something of this magnitude deserves to be it's own mod for vanilla BTS and of course inspired by RoM so it will be made compatible for RoM and it's accessory AND by default. I'll just have to redo the custom DLL for vanilla afterwards.

Yay for triple posting:sarcasm: but I'm thinking of renaming the Mod from RoMiS (Rise of Mankind in Space) to something else since after all something of this magnitude deserves to be it's own mod for vanilla BTS and of course inspired by RoM so it will be made compatible for RoM and it's accessory AND by default. I'll just have to redo the custom DLL for vanilla afterwards.

Why not just call it "In Space". :P And then depending which version you could have ...

CiS = Civilization 4 in Space

BtSiS = Beyond the Sword in Space

RoMiS = Rise of Mankind in Space

ANDiS = A New Dawn in Space

Why not just call it "In Space". :P And then depending which version you could have ...

CiS = Civilization 4 in Space

BtSiS = Beyond the Sword in Space

RoMiS = Rise of Mankind in Space

ANDiS = A New Dawn in Space

Making a version for RevDCM would make for a big misnomer... Revolutions in Space... not quite what it does. :lol:

25. anything I'm missing?

25. Add earlier era buildings and techs related to space such as; Stargazing [Tech], Astrologer [Building], etc.

----------------

Yay for triple posting:sarcasm: but I'm thinking of renaming the Mod from RoMiS (Rise of Mankind in Space) to something else since after all something of this magnitude deserves to be it's own mod for vanilla BTS and of course inspired by RoM so it will be made compatible for RoM and it's accessory AND by default. I'll just have to redo the custom DLL for vanilla afterwards.

I am not sure how will this will fit in with anything other than AND, because I would like to try to incorporate mods and techs from both RoM and AND that Vanilla just doesn't have. For instance incorporating the water, power and trash mods into RoMiS.

25. Add earlier era buildings and techs related to space such as; Stargazing [Tech], Astrologer [Building], etc.

I have techs on the list already back at number 1 but the buildings should be on there too.



I am not sure how will this will fit in with anything other than AND, because I would like to try to incorporate mods and techs from both RoM and AND that Vanilla just doesn't have. For instance incorporating the water, power and trash mods into RoMiS.

Oh boy, shoulda seen this one coming... You have big plans for this mod eh?

Oh boy, shoulda seen this one coming... You have big plans for this mod eh?

Yeah I have a big picture of how all the individual mods could fit together. Basiclly its Prehistoric Era Mod on on end and then Galactic Era Mod on the other end. Then in the middle diffrent mods that go more in depth to diffrent features. Such as water, power, trash, sports, farming, music, etc. In short rather than planning a single supper big mod I broke it down into smaller little mods which work better when together. But are still optional if people don't like a specific aspect of it. Note that RoMiS is probably the biggest of them all.

Indeed it is... Why do you try to make all the games you play as similar to Spore and Sim Earth/City as possible?

Indeed it is... Why do you try to make all the games you play as similar to Spore and Sim Earth/City as possible?

Must be growing up with the awesome Maxis games before they became part of EA. I have always loved sandbox games and the hole concept of bringing the entire universe together be it evolution, civilization or the cosmos. As Carl Sagan once said "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe."

Must be growing up with the awesome Maxis games before they became part of EA. I have always loved sandbox games and the hole concept of bringing the entire universe together be it evolution, civilization or the cosmos. As Carl Sagan once said "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe."

get Oblivion, very sandbox game for an RPG

Okay, so I added No. 25 and 26 and I'm probably going to start a new thread for this soon so that all the updates will be on the OP of that thread. On top of that... new titles something more original or catchy than RoM in Space, I was thinking TEst of Space-Time, TEST:lol:

Okay, so I added No. 25 and 26 and I'm probably going to start a new thread for this soon so that all the updates will be on the OP of that thread. On top of that... new titles something more original or catchy than RoM in Space, I was thinking TEst of Space-Time, TEST:lol:

Oh so we are playing the Acronym game are we? Hmmm, how about?

SPaCE = Space Probes and Cosmic Exploration (or Expansion)

Title... RoM: Stellar Exploration, RoM: Frontier, RoM: Space and Beyond, RoM: Exo-Earth...

More titles :D

New Horizons
Deep Cosmos
Galactic Path
Final Frontier
Endless Space
Into The Deep
Oceans Of Space

Nice ones:D RoM: Beyond the Skies

I like that but just realized its the exact acronym as BTS. Hmm BetS?

RoM: Stellar Exploration seems like something from the 60's. Shouldn't have the word(s) final or frontier since there's already a mod with that name. I like New Horizons, Deep Cosmos, anything else?

EDIT: Also I need a full list of Techs what I have is
1. Stargazing
2. Split Interstellar Travel tech into a few separate techs to spread over the length of the different types of propulsion which is listed a few pages ago.

What about just "Galactic Era"?

What about just "Galactic Era"?

That could be the era after Transhuman

That could be the era after Transhuman

I think I said that before. That for RoMiS I wanted to add an additional era after the Trans-Human Era. Note that all the stuff we add would not be exclusively in the Galactic Era. There would be plenty to spread out in the Modern and Trans-Human Eras too.

I think i said that before. That for RoMiS i wanted to add an additional era after the Trans-Human Era. Note that all the stuff we add would not be exclusively n the Galactic Era. There would b e plenty to spread out in the Modern and Trans-Human Eras too.

Yea, we agreed on this a few pages back too... Names, I need names, or do you think one of those are good?

Yea, we agreed on this a few pages back too... Names, I need names, or do you think one of those are good?

Personally I still like "RoMiS" we have been saying it for so long that its going to be hard for me to call it anything else.

At any rate I think the name should be the last thing we are worrying about. We need a working version of the mod. Even if its as basic as the "Space Screen" or whatever we are calling it.

I mean how far are you from say implementing one of the things we discussed such as "you discovered the moon" where by researching a tech you unlock the moon info page in the "Spacepedia" or whatever you want to call it.

Hey there's a name "Space-o-Rama"! :P

Personally I still like "RoMiS" we have been saying it for so long that its going to be hard for me to call it anything else.

At any rate I think the name should be the last thing we are worrying about. We need a working version of the mod. Even if its as basic as the "Space Screen" or whatever we are calling it.

I mean how far are you from say implementing one of the things we discussed such as "you discovered the moon" where by researching a tech you unlock the moon info page in the "Spacepedia" or whatever you want to call it.

Hey there's a name "Space-o-Rama"! :P

1. Well looking over this mod it looks like it has the potential to go beyond just RoM so why have RoM in the title?

2. Well the alpha versions should have a name

3. Not only will this be a slow process but the events will be almost the last things to go into the mod.

4. Now it sounds like you're not taking anything seriously


EDIT: Development Thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=345273)

1. Like I said before I am not sure how well some crossover features will be without RoM or AND.

2. True and the new name you picked is not to bad. Of all the ones other people listed I liked that one the best. However i hope people don't get confused with the acronyms of BtS and BtS.

3. No not it was not an "event" it was a revealing tech. Like if you research "Mysticism" you discover say the Sun and the Moon in the "Spacepedia". It was not like some random event such as "you discover black pearls".

4. Actually I was serious with that one since I am a "Futurama" fan.

5. Its too bad it could not have been an acronym that made a sentence. Right now it would be "Civ4: BtS: RoM: AND: BtS". It would have been cool to have like "RoM AND MoR" or "RoM AND RoMiS" hee hee. :D Or even "Modmodmod is Space" to be "MiS" or "MMMiS"

5. Its too bad it could not have been an acronym that made a sentence. Right now it would be "Civ4: BtS: RoM: AND: BtS". It would have been cool to have like "RoM AND MoR" or "RoM AND RoMiS" hee hee. :D Or even "Modmodmod is Space" to be "MiS" or "MMMiS"

Beyond the Skies acronym is actually BetS (BEyond The Skies)

Beyond the Skies acronym is actually BetS (BEyond The Skies)

What about "Launch of Mankind" or LoM? It would hint at its roots in RoM but not have to be associated with RoM?

What about "Launch of Mankind" or LoM? It would hint at its roots in RoM but not have to be associated with RoM?

Hmm, I like where you're going with that, but that's not quite it. Rise of Mankind, A New Dawn... (ideas flowing) Man's Last Dusk... A New Beginning... Mankind's Domination... Mankind's Reign... The Ascent of Mankind... Oo I like that last one.
EDIT: the acronym is ASOM (the AScent Of Mankind) awesome!:D

Hmm, I like where you're going with that, but that's not quite it. Rise of Mankind, A New Dawn... (ideas flowing) Man's Last Dusk... A New Beginning... Mankind's Domination... Mankind's Reign... The Ascent of Mankind... Oo I like that last one.
EDIT: the acronym is ASOM (the AScent Of Mankind) awesome!:D

I like the last one but what about ATOM (AscenT Of Mandkind)?

Bringing together the very huge with the very small. Muhahahah! :D

I like the last one but what about ATOM (AscenT Of Mandkind)?

Bringing together the very huge with the very small. Muhahahah! :D

Deal! Now go over to the other thread and post some tech ideas. what I have is what is posted a few posts ago.