What is the best way to represent a Carrier Air Wing in Civ3? Do you have it just a couple types of fighters, or do you try to closely represent the different squadrons on the deck? Do you have large wings of 8-10 units, or closer to the way Firaxis handled it?

The way firaxis handled it is most balanced.

I really think have 8-10 planes on a carrier is way unbalanced. And if you're reall adamant about representing an 'air wing' i'd just mod the graphics to show more than one aircraft per unit.

A lot of Civ is abstraction, I treat the airforce on my carrier fleet as 1 air wing and I mix and match. I have carriers carrying bombers only initially and when jet fighters come on line, I add fighters into the mix. A standard carrier battlegroup will have 2 carriers 1 fighter/3 bombers on each.

What is the best way to represent a Carrier Air Wing in Civ3? Do you have it just a couple types of fighters, or do you try to closely represent the different squadrons on the deck? Do you have large wings of 8-10 units, or closer to the way Firaxis handled it?

I assume that each aircraft represents a squadron of approximately 15-18 aircraft. A large carrier can handle about 90 aircraft, so I allow for 5 aircraft per carrier. If you wish to more closely replicate US Navy carrier air groups, you would have 4 aircraft and 1 ASW helicopter unit. Unfortunately, the game has no provision for ASW aircraft. There is another thread where ASW aircraft are discussed.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=338632

Trying to realistically model different aircraft abilities off a carrier in civ3 is really not doable, one thing you can do is disallow bombers on carriers, can you imagine flying a B2 off a carrier deck? LOL. As timerover51 points out, a carrier would have diverse aircraft - Naval fighter bombers, an ASW capability, and it should have some kind of AWACS capability too - this could be, if properly modelled, an aircraft set to a "surveillance" mission that constantly gives the carrier group radar visibility several squares out. The aircraft loadouts themselves would make a great deal of difference - if you have planes with Phoenix missiles they should have a good chance to intercept and destroy enemy bombers or fighters flying in to attack before they get close. One thing you can do is have light carriers and heavy carriers with differing capacities.

if you have planes with Phoenix missiles they should have a good chance to intercept and destroy enemy bombers or fighters flying in to attack before they get close.

No US Navy carrier has aircraft able to carry the Phoenix missile. That was mated to the F-14, which is no longer in service. The F-18 when tailored for a fighter mission carries the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, which is considerably less capable than the F-14/Phoenix missile combination.

If you wished to represent a current USN air group, you would have 4 units equipped with F/A-18 fighters. Two units should be used as air superiority aircraft, with greater air to air capacity and some bombard capacity. Two units should emphasis air to ground attack, with a higher bombard capability, precision attack capability, and lower air to air capability. E-2 Hawkeyes would provide AWACS capability and represent 4 aircraft, while an ASW helicopter unit would cover the ASW role.

The way firaxis handled it is most balanced.

I really think have 8-10 planes on a carrier is way unbalanced. And if you're reall adamant about representing an 'air wing' i'd just mod the graphics to show more than one aircraft per unit.

A lot of Civ is abstraction, I treat the airforce on my carrier fleet as 1 air wing and I mix and match. I have carriers carrying bombers only initially and when jet fighters come on line, I add fighters into the mix. A standard carrier battlegroup will have 2 carriers 1 fighter/3 bombers on each.


I disagree. Given that the Nimitz Strike group is claimed to have roughly the same offensive power as the British Army, carriers are way underpowered with only 4 aircraft. The AI doesn't even use them correctly. I have raised the plane capacity to 8-12 on most modern CVs and CVNs in my mod, and the AI actually makes use of them, even though it tends to not fully load the carriers. You just don't want to travel several turns to your target on larger maps to have all of your planes shot down on the first attack. With this modifications, I have seen AI built battle groups of 2-3 BBs, 4-6 DDs and 1-2 CVs with 8-14 planes that really posed a threat.

No US Navy carrier has aircraft able to carry the Phoenix missile. That was mated to the F-14, which is no longer in service. The F-18 when tailored for a fighter mission carries the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile, which is considerably less capable than the F-14/Phoenix missile combination.

If you wished to represent a current USN air group, you would have 4 units equipped with F/A-18 fighters. Two units should be used as air superiority aircraft, with greater air to air capacity and some bombard capacity. Two units should emphasis air to ground attack, with a higher bombard capability, precision attack capability, and lower air to air capability. E-2 Hawkeyes would provide AWACS capability and represent 4 aircraft, while an ASW helicopter unit would cover the ASW role.

Yes, I know they are now out of service, but the possibility of such an aircraft/missile combination exists, it is just that no one is building them now. In a world where you have to worry about supersonic bombers with antiship missiles going after your carriers, a civ would most definitely build these if it could.

Giving the AI more plane capacity is undoubtedly more effective for them, but at the same time it gives the human player an advantage - they have to spend less shields on carriers, which means they can gain an unfair advantage in other areas.

In my mod, Red Storm Rising, the carriers (along with everything else) will be preplaced. For the Nimitz and other supercarriers I was thinking 8 aircraft: 3 f-14s and the rest attackers. I wish I could include ASW aircraft, but alas, civ3 will have none of it. Any other suggestions? Oh, and what is the max number of units that can be in civ3 at one time? Thanks in advance.

In my mod, Red Storm Rising, the carriers (along with everything else) will be preplaced. For the Nimitz and other supercarriers I was thinking 8 aircraft: 3 f-14s and the rest attackers. I wish I could include ASW aircraft, but alas, civ3 will have none of it. Any other suggestions? Oh, and what is the max number of units that can be in civ3 at one time? Thanks in advance.

I believe that the unit limit is 8152. Are you basing in on the Tom Clancy book, Red Storm Rising?

You can add ASW aircraft in a limited way. Give them "radar" and "detect invisible", and they will "see" all subs in their radius while based on the carrier. They cannot locate subs on ASW patrol flights, though.

The "Flying Boats" in CCM seem to be a solution to submarine penetration, as the are more like PT boats w/o terrain (Ocean, Sea, Coast) restrictions. In one test game I had a blanket of them.

Oo a Red Storm Rising scenario?! I almost started making one of those after I read the book, but I ran out of time.

I tried devising my own solution to the ASW problem, but I must say the passive radar+see invisible seems to be the best idea, especially if coupled with a small operational range so that one could wildly try to find subs.

You can add ASW aircraft in a limited way. Give them "radar" and "detect invisible", and they will "see" all subs in their radius while based on the carrier. They cannot locate subs on ASW patrol flights, though.

rock on! that is what I shall do.

Yes, it is based on the Clancy novel. I have a thread on that mod, but there has never been a lot of interest in it.

rock on! that is what I shall do.

Yes, it is based on the Clancy novel. I have a thread on that mod, but there has never been a lot of interest in it.

The reason that I asked in that novel was co-written by Tom Clancy and Larry Bond, and Larry is a friend of mine. I have worked with him and Chris Carlson on their Command at Sea series of games. Once you get things finished, let me know and I will shoot that a Internet link to your scenario.