After the Persians stole Washington's traits and created Darius, Civ was never the same. Unless the map is stacked heavily against you (which, by the way, if you're playing a forum game like MS^, it just might be), or you're playing a level far above what you can handle, how can you lose?

Economic strategy for Darius is brain-dead: spam cottages and courthouses.

Persia starts with Hunting and Agri... that's two techs away from Immortals, but unfortunately, also two techs away from Bronze Working...

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/robo_mike/civpics/MS9-1.jpg


The Immortal is a chariot replacement that enjoys a 50% bonus against archers. In most cases, rushing an opponent is so easy: deny their metal, and then go to town against their archers. Timing is key, the faster you can rush them, the better.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/robo_mike/civpics/MS9-2.jpg


The Apothecary is a grocer with +2 health tacked on. It may not seem like much, but it can help greatly during the midgame health crisis.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/robo_mike/civpics/MS9-3.jpg



Map Settings...
Map: Fractal
Oppnents: 6
Sealevel: Medium
Climate: Arid

This is the start:
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/robo_mike/civpics/MS9-4.jpg


There is only one way to not lose and you know it.

I have provided you adequate tools for survival. Don't fail me. :lol:



The Worldbuilder save is below. It is perfect for Monarch or Emperor starts, and... "okay" for other levels.

To play, unzip the worldbuilder file and place it in your Documents/My Games/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game by choosing Single Player -> Play a Scenario, where you may adjust the speed and difficulty to your liking. Or Custom Scenario, if you also wish to turn off barbarians or events, and adjust other settings to your liking.

Let us compare strategies and progress with other players as well as learn to play. Win or lose, for better or worse, feel free to report on your glorious exploits--others may give you advice on how to go on.

Please keep your reports in spoiler tags. Perhaps decades from now, your descendants will still be playing this save. Let's keep them in the dark so they can enjoy!

Recommended Checkpoints:
*1000BC or 1AD or 100AD
*800AD, 1000AD or Liberalism
*1200AD or 1400AD
*Victory!

We're back to the huts-or-no-huts deal-or-no-deal saves this time.

Monarch/Epic, 25 AD
I'm playing absolutely terribly...going for the wrong techs, no managing cities at all, etc. Fortunately this map is RIDICULOUSLY nice. :lol:

Settled 1W. Start was frustrating - couldn't build WB first and worker wouldn't have anything to do. Ended up going warrior>wb>worker>wb>rax>immortals while teching fishing>AH>wheel>mining>BW.

Horses discovered underneath Persepolis :goodjob:

I was gonna play nice, but somebody boxed me in!
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
Not much of a fight:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

Apparently I missed the pic of taking his third and last city.

Nice guy, Pacal. He built 3 cities for me, founded Budda, and even had a couple cottages down, two of which were already villages.

Empire at end of war:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Awesome little chokepoint to the west. I also notice a lot of coast, and though it was a bit late I decided to go for it:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

Talk about a rock solid economy. Continued to expand a bit, mostly blocking off my penninsula with a sweet double fish+iron city. At 25AD things look like this:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

I'm stomping them in tech already and it is just going to get worse. Lots of good cottage terrain + TGL trade routes is pounding out the tech. I'm planning to move the capital to the old Maya capital for cottage-heavy bureau abuse while my current capital becomes a monster GP farm:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

In reality my position should be way better than it is now. Happy resources are scarce and I didn't do enough early on to alleviate that. I took too long to tech Monarchy and then took way too long to build more MPs, I ignored Calendar for a long time (no silks), and I should have gotten a city up near the furs going already.

Next I'll work on fixing the happy issues while settling 4 more cities to fill out my territory. I have my main commerce cities running but need more production cities. I also need to beef up my defenses in the west because I'm pretty sure Alex will be coming for me soon - actually he, Kublai, and I are all in different religions.

Unless there's some crazy runaway civ out there, this game is pretty much over. But I'll probably finish it anyways...

Fin / Org + Immortals = Yummy .... :mischief:
Any nasty surprises ???? :(

The Immortal is a chariot replacement that enjoys a 50% bonus against archers. In most cases, rushing an opponent is so easy: deny their metal, and then go to town against their archers. Timing is key, the faster you can rush them, the better.

Not unimportantly, they also do receive defensive bonusses in contrast to Chariots. As if they weren't powerful enough already... As if Persia wasn't powerful enough already! :sad:

@Dualmaster:
Crazy rush. :D

You got extremely lucky, if you know what I mean.

@Shafi:
You may get unlucky and attack too late. :lol:

Yech, lots of brown land. I think I'll settle 1W to gain cows & a green hill, and lose some sea, although it looks like there might be strategic resource down there. Let's pray for horses :satan:

@Dualmaster:
Crazy rush. :D

You got extremely lucky, if you know what I mean.


Yeah, Pacal didn't build a single Holkan. I know he had BW shortly before I finished him. But if he had gotten just one holkan in his capital with the 40% culture + hill, the rush wouldn't have worked. Lucky me :D

opening and some tidbits: (note to daulmaster)

I settled one west and it worked out great since horse popped up right in the cap after AH. I went AH>Wheel (since horses popped)>BW. Would have gone BW second if horses required expansion.

Quickly ran into Pacal. Interesting (and wicked) pick for a counter to Darius magic. On one hand he's likely the best counter to Darius from a tech/financial perspective and second has probably the best early UU counter to Darius next to Shaka (don't tell me he's in here somewhere too). The early conclusion being that this Pacal dude has to go and has to go quick.

@dualmaster - did you actually encounter Holkans in your rush? I noticed you took a 3rd city and figured Pacal would have them by then. I took only two cities.

I noticed Pacal boxing me in with a non-hill city just to the east with only one archer. Dispatched my first Immortal to quickly take him out as I whipped a few more for the rush on his cap. The cap was on a hill so it took a few Immortals to take out his archers. Archers are deadmeat out in the open but still tough on a hill city. The downside to taking Pacal so early is not giving him a chance to build or get a religion. I got two cities but nothing else. Regardless, I had to get him before the Holkans.

With pottery one of my first techs, I quickly started the first city focusing on cottages with all the floodplains. The Mayan cap is going to geared more toward unit production now and then later will probably be my new capital. my cap will focus on the Great Lighthouse and then GPs.

Excellent chokepoint to the west. I must put a city there asap. I encountered Alex and Kubla on the western landmass. Alex hasn't settled the copper to the south, so I figure he's still prime for a good beatdown. However, I wind up in a long grinding battle with Alex. After finally taking Athens, with one city left, Alex seeks help from Kubla and becomes his vassal. Now I have to contend with both as I'm now trying to get cats/swords out to the front. Now I have to quickly whip some spears to counter Khan. Interestingly, Khan doesn't send a big army but rather a couple of elephants and a cat. I'm able to counter everything he sends while keeping Alex at bay. Finally destroy the Greeks and make peace with Khan (same religion so he's immediately back at pleased)

I grinded this war out to long I think. However, with Darius and my GP farm cap I was able to keep pace with tech. I'm interested in advice on better rushing tactics. I sometimes just don't bring the optimal amount of units.

Note: I've been trying these MS games out just recently, having played a few to little success. I've just recently become consistently dominant at Noble. I believe I have a chance to win this one though. I'm on the path now to probably take Liberalism

Monarch-normal-huts on-25 AD

I settled 1 west and started on AH and a worker. A scout popped from the hut.
Met Pacal very quickly (damn) and since he was blocking me i decided he had to go. I looked up the Holkan and found out that it didn't need copper to be build.
It turned out i had settled on horse and because i had gotten The Wheel from my second hut i started on immortals. Got some gold from another hut and then lost the scout to a bear. Met the same bear with my other scout and won.

Pacal founded Hinduism. I met Alexander in 3280 bc and Kublai in 3000 bc. Found a good point for a blocker city at the small part of the continent just east of Alexander.

After Pacal settles his second city i attack. I capture a worker on the first turn and take his capital on the second (no holkans). I destroy his second city.

550 bc i get my first GS and build a academy. In 100 bc i complete the Great Library and start on the national Epic.

It is now 25 ad and i have 5 cities with room for 5 more i think. My blocking city is in place. Alexander and Kublai both had judaism so i converted too. They are both pleased with me now (i don't think it matters with those two though, they might DOW on me anyway).

My tech path was AH-->Wheel from hut before i got AH)-->mining-->BW-->fishing-->pottery-->writing-->Aesth-->Math-->Alph-->and now i'm working on music to try and get a golden age with the G Artist.

@lymond
No, he never built any Holkans but did get a third city out. He even put all 3 cities in nice locations so I had 4 solid cities early without building any settlers :lol:

To 1000AD:

Some more sloppy play by me, but it really doesn't matter.

Persepolis pops a border revealing land to the south and a new friend shows up:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0000-1.jpg

Notice in the background that with the culture pop I can now send ships to the south. Signing open borders also opens up foreign intercontinental trade routes - which in turn kicks the Great Lighthouse into high gear:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0001-1.jpg

Meanwhile my immortals stay busy and one of my vets makes 10XP to open up HE:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Persepolis continues it's role towards a GP farm:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Alex makes a demand:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

No problem, pal! I knew refusal would make me a target for war, so I decided to cave to any demand he made. Then a new buddy shows up:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

Techwise he's the usual neanderthal. I popped two GMs which were used for some lucrative trade missions:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
I spent most of the 1000 years at 100% :science: slider because of these trade missions. I think Chemistry took me 7 turns to tech? The only bad news is I didn't get a scientist until 775AD. Immediately built an academy in the capital (which I moved to Mutal) and it gave me an immediate +56:science:/turn.

The global tech rate is way way down. Take a look at the date that I found Tao:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0007-1.jpg

It turns out that caving to Alex's demands was very smart:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg

And of course he soon comes demanding:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg

I declare. Alex is completely protecting me from Khan. I've killed a scout and that's all I've seen of the war.

Degaulle comes demanding:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg
I almost said no, and probably could have without any consequences (he can't even attack me for a long time to come). But I'm playing nice...

The empire at 1000AD:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0012-1.jpg
The capital:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0013-1.jpg
Tech situation (laughable):
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0014-1.jpg

So, the two other civs on my continent are busy killing each other while Alex protects me and lets me tech. The other continent has Shaka and Degaulle who are way behind in tech. Can anything else go better for me in this game?;) I think there is one more isolated civ out there - they could have been killed by Shaka/Degaulle, but there doesn't seem to be enough land on the continent to have had a third civ. So I'm expecting to meet some backward civ out there.

I was thinking about taking Steel from Lib and going cannon+draft musket to roll my continent but I'm feeling lazy so I might just hunker down and tech ahead for a while. I can take lib anytime but might wait and get a big tech from it.

Meanwhile I'm just about to get circumnav. Universities are going up and then Oxford in the capital. Globe just finishing in Persepolis for the GP farm. For tech I'm finishing PP for the :commerce: bonus, then I'll probably go to economics followed by a run to democracy (maybe take demo from lib?). I have a GA (from music) that I'll use to kick off a golden age and make a big civic switch to us/fs/eman/fm/fr and then laugh as my economy takes off.

Right now at 100%:science: my capital is producing +217:science: and overall the civ is producing +505:science:. I have no idea if this is good? The capital will likely be 400+ once Oxford finishes (especially with PP and FS).

Space would be easy to win, but maybe I'll try to win with style :king:

Ohh darius nice! Last time I played him, I got a wonderful domination win somewhere in the early 1700's. Let's hope I can repeat this on monarch :).

Monarch/Epic Huts On To 1000BC


Settled 1W started teching fishing then AH.

Build order in capital was war, wb, worker, barracks(for rushing of Pacal), ImmX11:), WB, WB, Imm, worker, library(current).

3925BC Meet Pacal (He must be real close) Hope have horses to rush him.

3425BC Pacal founds Hindu.

3400BC AH is in and i settled on horses.

2450BC Meet Alex.

2000BC Meet Kubai.

1475BC Declae on Pacal with 11 Immortals.

1450BC Capture Lakamha. Keep it.

1400BC Capture Mutal. Keep it. Lost 5-6 Immortals though. He had whipped a Holkan and had 2 archers in a 40% hill capital.

1325BC Razed Uxmal. Was pop 1 and had only 1 archer. City was north of Lakamha. It was where the barb city is now.

1300BC Find Pacals last city and capture it. Keep it. It had 2 archers in it on hill but my 3 immortals took it 1 lost immortal. Pacal dead.

1000BC is where I stopped. My tech order after AH was TW, mining, BW, Pottery, Writing, Sailing, Masonry, Mysticism, Alpha(current).

Land 1000BC
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/MSDariusland1000bc0000.jpg
Persepolis Think I am moving capital to Mutal and making this GP Farm.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/perseMSDarius1000bc0000.jpg
Mutal. Future capital?
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/mutalMSDarius1000bc0000.jpg

Going forward

1. Need get more workers. Only have 2 due to building immortals to rush Pacal.

2. Need to explore more. My scout died to lion early.

3. 2 barb Cities need capturing.

4. Alex is in WHEOOHRN. Don't know where he is or if I am target.

I have a level 4 unit for HE.

Looking at map is GL a possibilty? Will have about 6 cities coastal when i settle them. Might be to late though plus I am worried about alex is in WHEOOHRN.

Moving capital to mutal seems like a no brainer. OU and WS city I'm thinking with the holy city. Hope I can get a Prophet to shrine. Pers will be a Good GP farm I think and later maybe GT for drafting.

Gave this a try on Emperor:


Played out pretty like for everyone else. Settled 1W. Went AH / TW / BW. Found that I had settled on horses, which was a nice surprise.

Just as I was gonna settle my second city on the floodplains to the west, Pacal snatches it right under my nose. Nevermind, as I'm only planning to build 2 cities and than mass produce troops. Settled to the north instead at the same time as bronze appears there, nice.

Find the others, gets Judaism spred to me by someone. Converts for the extra happiness to allow the whipping that is about to commence. Build granaries and barracks in my cities, and start whipping Immortals. Pacals capital is on a hill with 60% culture as he has built the SH.

Take the floodplain city without much resistance, but damn are those Holkans annoying. Take 10 turns of peace to heal and whip more troops. By now I'm chopping and whipping like crazy which allows me to defeat Pacal pretty effortlessly. The mongolians also declare at me for some reason, but I never see any troops and quickly switch to Buddhism when I've taken the holy city, as everyone else is flying the Buddhism flag.

Quickly settle that excellent chokepoint to the west and get CoL. The start looks promising even though some guy on another continent seem to be wonder spamming like there is no tomorrow. Have started on a galley to get some scouting going.

Plan is to get Mongols to friendly, they are usually easy enough, and then either settle peacefully or attack the Greeks depending on how strong they seem.

Edit: This map is a giant setup! I can't see any other way it could play out (not that I don't like it though).

Played on monarc/epic/huts on

As like everyone else, found out I settled on horses. Didnt build a second city, took out the closest neighbour right away. He only got one holkan out before his demise. After that I went for cottages, many of them. Which in turn resulted in quite a poor hammer output..

Won liberalism 'race' (nobody else was even close) at 1200 ad or something close to it. Teched to rifles/cannons. Also took the little island with dyes/gems at this point. Took out france/capitulated zulu with only one city remaining........ Worst mistake of the game! At some point of this conquest I upgraded masses of rifles to infantry and swept through the rest of the continent. Next in line was alexander, who fell quickly..

Too quickly, as Kublai declaered on me and took few of the cities I just conquered. Shortly after peace deal run out, I took the cities and few extra back.. Only to end up at 65% of world pop and 62,5% land. That one zulu city would of been enough. Well, I had loads of troops with few tanks mixed in so headed for pacal. Got three of this cities including capital. 63.2% land... Then video memory error finished the game for me. Most likely the game would of been done when the cities I just captured got their first border pop. Was a fun game and I re-learned a lot of forgotten warring skill.. Next time I'll remember to make enough naval units to cover my transports, and will make siege units in a better proportion compared to the rest of the troops.

To 1790 and Armageddon



Met the other civ, who was just as backward as I expected:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg

Finally take lib, although there was no threat to it:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg

Kick off a golden age and switch to US/Bur/Emanc/FM/FR and end up with a nice science capital:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0007-2.jpg
And during the golden age:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0009-2.jpg

Two more wonders (I didn't build many this game):
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0008-2.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

I also had to start a war...you might guess why I decided to take this crappy island city first:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0013-2.jpg
I was also in the mood for some bananas.
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0014-2.jpg

Yeah, marines vs longbows :lol:Shaka was bribed into the war against me. He finally showed up with a stack to take the French city of Chinook. The stack was promptly slaughtered by my marines and Shaka capped immediately!

HC then decided to do something stupid:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0015-1.jpg

And after some marines and tanks visited his land, he capped too.

I also made peace with Degaulle but he wouldn't cap. Anyways I researched up to fission and rocketry before zeroing the slider and doing mass rushbuy of tanks and nukes. It didn't take long before I was ready:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

To make it interesting I DOWed all three remaining civs (Kublai, Alex, and Degaulle) at the same time. Then I think some nukes went off :rolleyes:.

The French War:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

I took six French cities and killed half their navy on the first turn. Each city drew two ICBMs which wiped out all the defenders. Three naval groups (each containing a transport with 4 marines) were positioned to drop off two marines in two cities. Thus twelve marines took 6 cities without firing a shot.

Degaulle capped the next turn.


The Greek War:

Start by softening them up:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

All three cities were taken by amphibious forces on the first turn. A pile of tanks also entered from the border.

On the second turn Alex sent a stack. Stack draws two ICBMs:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg

More nukes go off. Khan sends a stack. Khan loses a stack.

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg

Annoyingly, Alex vassaled to Khan. Not a big deal though.

Khan tastes my wrath:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0034.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0035.jpg

It wasn't long before Khan and Alex capped.

And the world was left aglow:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0038.jpg


I really had fun using the combination of nukes+naval assault. I was able to take down Alex and Khan way faster than if I had to march through his territory. Oh yeah, I just used tanks and nukes during the war. I think I built 3 siege units the whole game.

End game info:
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0042.jpg
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt134/dualmaster333/MSX/Civ4ScreenShot0043.jpg


It was a pretty fun stomp.

Initial strategy:

Will play on Monarch, Epic with Huts.

Settle 1W to get cow as we're only losing ocean.

Rush if:

We have horses in the BFC, and
Opponent is not protective, and
Opponnet has no metal or has easily deniable metal, and
Opponent isn't Pacal (he'll have spearman that don't need metal)


Assuming we're rushing I'll look for a worker steal

Initial techs depend on horses so AH first then:

If horses: Mining->BW->Fishing->Wheel->Pottery
If no horses: Fishing->Mining->BW->Wheel->Pottery

Economy: Cottages

To 1858AD domination Monarch/Epic


To 1 AD was pretty much just filling out land. 35BC GS pops and I academy in Mutal.

Only trades i made during that time was aest to alex for PH and math and aest to kubai for IW and 30 gold.

70AD switched to HR since happiness was limited.

505AD win music race and start a GA.

685AD Bulbed philo and found taoism.

850AD Bulb most of education.

910AD Meet De Gaulle.

930AD Meet Shaka.

950AD Palace moved to Mutal. Made Pers GP farm/Draft central. NE and GT went there.

960AD Trade CoL to alex for HBR, ARC, and 30 gold.

990AD Kubai declares on me.

1080AD peace with kubai.

1270AD GS pops bulb most of PP.

1435AD GS pops start GA.

1515AD Meet final ai HC.

1530AD Declare on kubai and take New sarai.

1535AD capture Ghuzz.

1555AD Capture Beshbalik.

1560AD AP stops war. :mad:

1615AD Redeclare on Kubai.

1625AD Capture Turfan.

1630AD Kubai vassals to alex and he declares on me.

1635AD AP stops war.

1655AD Shaka declares on me.

1670AD Shaka captures Ghuzz and I recapture next turn.

1704AD AP gives New Sarai back to Kubai.

1710AD HC colonizes GW. I declare on ALex.

1712AD Take New sarai back. Peace with Shaka.

1720AD Capture Argos and Sparta.

1728AD Capture Athens. Thanks for the wonders. I later put HE and WP here.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/athensmsdariuscaptured0000.jpg

1730AD Stops Kubai war with me. He broke free earlier.

1732 to 1750AD I keep capturing cities from alex. He then vassals to Kubai.

1750 to 1758AD I capture 5 cities including jewish shrine from Kubai capital.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/Karamsdarius0000.jpg

1762AD Take Alex's last city.

1786AD Take Kubai's last city. Continent finally mine.

1834AD I declare on Shaka after building up navy.

1836AD I capture 3 of his cities.

1844AD I capture 3 more shaka cities and he vassals. I gift 4 cities back to him. Keep 2 that were on island south of new sarai.

1854AD Declae on Degaulle.

1856AD Capture Orleans and De Gaulle vassals. :lol:

1858AD Domination win.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/MSDariusvictory0000.jpg

Screenshots of end.

Power of the draft.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/MSDariusPersfinal0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/MSDariusDemo0001.jpg

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/MSDariusscore0000.jpg




Thanks to Meatbuster for hosting the game.

A noble player trying to improve in any way shape or form.

to 1000 B.C. noble/normal-huts on

Settle 1W to gain cow and lose ocean.

pops huts for a total of 166 gold, two maps

tech path: AH>Mining>BW>wheel>writing>pottery>fishing>mysticism>HBR>?

Persepolis went: warrior>worker>barracks>immortals

Meet Pacal on turn three.

Found horse underneath Persepolis.

Pacal founds Hinduism on turn 11

Buddism founded somewhere else on turn 21

Meet alexander on turn 26. He founded buddism.

Bw on turn 29. one copper source, have to make sure pacal doesn't get it.

Found alexander. I think i should settle a blocking city to block off my continent, or do i rush him? I think i'll see if he has metal, if yes then block. if no, then late rush.

Meet Kublia on turn 39. not going to rush him. Maybe phant +cat war?

Pacall founds his second city, 6W1S. i'm thinking 7-8 immortals for a rush i have two now and another comeing in next turn

Get open borders with pacal.

decalre war on pacal on turn 55

capture lakahama, i keep, it, it will become a commerce city once i get cottages down.

lose three archers against mutal, one withdraw, one win. i hope i beat the remaining archer next turn, otherwise this rush is done.

YES!!! i win a battle at 44% odds to capture Mutal, and Pacall is dead. I get a 10 xp unit in the process. He already has combat II so what should i do with him?

Greece doesn't have metal. I am thinking about rushing, except with 10 immortals/horse archers.

Revolt to slavery turn 67. hadn't needed it before now, and i am gonning to whip my first thing, a granary soon.

Ok i'm at 1000 BC now, i am at a decision point; Do i go down the Alphabet/ currency line and trade for back fill? Or do i go to literature for an early GLIB? My empire is Persepolis, Lakahama, and Mutal

I have a scout on Greece's possible copper; Should i rush him, and if so, with what? Immortals or HAs?

Please note, i took a lot of pictures during this, i just can seem to get them to come out right on paint, so i can't show them here. hers a link to the one i tried:http://teddy.sauyet.com/images/Monarch student 1.jpg(its the one of my empire)

@valivator:
I don't think there's any need to rush Greece. If you capture, the maintenance might kill your economy, and if you raze, Kublai will just resettle.

Since you just finished off Pacal there's a lot of land to backfill. Do it. :D

You could also block the land bridge between you and Alex with a city, and close borders. That way not even their galleys can penetrate.


@dualmaster:
Awesome war. So many nukes fired...

It's like "Who cares if I reduce the world into rubble... as long as I rule!" :lol:

To 1000BC - probably my best Monarch game to date...

Here was my initial strategy:

Initial strategy:

Will play on Monarch, Epic with Huts.

Settle 1W to get cow as we're only losing ocean.

Rush if:

We have horses in the BFC, and
Opponent is not protective, and
Opponnet has no metal or has easily deniable metal, and
Opponent isn't Pacal (he'll have spearman that don't need metal)


Assuming we're rushing I'll look for a worker steal

Initial techs depend on horses so AH first then:

If horses: Mining->BW->Fishing->Wheel->Pottery
If no horses: Fishing->Mining->BW->Wheel->Pottery

Economy: Cottages


Very funny that I found Pacal to the west (on a hill!) AND I settled on horses! What a dilemma! I stuck to my initial strategy and did not rush deciding instead to settle the primo spot just east of his borders with a view to hemming him in then worker steal and pillage.

I managed to grab two huts with gold - one very near Pacals border.

Pacal founded hinduism in his capital then bet me to the city spot by 3 turns. I had to settle on the north coast between capital and the primo spot.

No stone or marble around and with Pacal so close it looks like no early wonders for me today.

I sent an immortal by his second city site ready to start pillaging but noticed he only had one archer in the second city. My immortal had 60% chance of winning and with the potential gains so high and the fact we would declare soon I went for it and won my primo site. Yes I was lucky but it was a calculated risk so I think that counts :mischief:. My next bit of luck came when I realised I had 1 damaged immortal vs 2, maybe 3, archers in Pacal's captial however he allowed me to settle for peace immediately - which was another stroke of luck. :goodjob:

Pacal then founded Judaism one or two turns later. With only one city this means his capital is now the holy city of two religions so is way to juicy to wait until a medieval war.

I sent two immortals over to worker steal. Just as I enter his borders I notice there is only one archer in the capital and his two other archers are each 2 turns away (1 scouting and 1 escorting a settler. I immediately converge on the capital. Both immortals each have about a 20-25% win chance alone so I reckon losing 2 immortals for a chance to win a capital, loads of money, two holy cities, a worker taking refuge in the city AND kill Pacal outright is too good to pass up. First immortal takes archer down to 2.5/3 - not good. Raises my odds to around 30%. Second immortal wins with health to spare and Pacal is dead at 1725BC. :D

A few turns later I take a barb city on the coast south of the primo spot. 3 warriors are immortal chow earning some promotions.

I'm slightly worried that I already have two religions so there could be an AI love fest. I've yet to meet any other AI's and I'm concerned I'm isolated now I've killed Pacal.

Fortunatley, Kublai Khan turns up soon after then Alex turns up right on 1000BC. Neither of them have religions yet - which is interesting.

At 1000BC I have 6 cities and +27 research a turn.

Possible strategies:

Cottage up and focus on getting 2 great prophets for my holy cities. That will make a mega Wall St city as its also surrounded by floodplains.
Spread hinduism to one AI and judaism to the other just to get them nice and distracted. Pick a side when I'm ready to dogpile.
With 2 religions a cultural game is a maybe and its quite appealing as I very rarely play one.
Its too late to take immortals to "The Kube" or Alex so I could just prepare for a medieval war (boring!)
Explore and expand - I am bordering on a desert to my west so I suspect if I explore and expand I'll hit an AI relatively soon. With my early skirmishes I've been using every unit to fight so haven't been able to scout much.

1000bc-800ad

I settled the blocking city, 1E of the two Iron. I start to settle in behind that, by now i have settled all of it, except that little pennisila behind Persepolis.

I tried for the GLH in perseoplis for three reasons: If i get it, i will have a lot of coastal cities, so it was worth it. Second if i don't get it, then i get the failure cash, which came in handy during my REX. Third, Persepolis grows while building it.
I didn't get it.

I got the music GA for a GA immediatly.

I got the GLIB in persepolis though.

I'm moving the capital to Mutal soon, for maitence reasons and to take advantage of burocracy.

I traded a clam and a fur to alex for ivory.

I have converted to buddhism, Alex's religion. Kublai is Jewish, and i'm involved in a ghost war with alex against him.

I am 2 turns away from philophoshy, with a great scientist in 4 turns ready to bulb education.

I am in HR, Caste, OR and default everything else. I am getting 135Bpt and 1Gpt at 60% slider.

@darreljnz:
When I read your plans for this map, I flashed myself a grin. I can't believe you mentioned Pacal. As map maker, I already knew who your neighbor was. :lol:

Good thing your plans worked out.

@darreljnz

Nice game so far. Spreading opposite religions to alex and kubai is a great idea. Hopefully they go to war with each other and you can kill them with huge tech advantage.

Mutal spoiler
Might want to think about moving capital to Mutal also. Maek it your OU and WS city. Just a thought.

Might want to think about moving capital to Mutal also. Maek it your OU and WS city. Just a thought.Or possibly put OU in Persepolis, which is guaranteed to be a GP farm.

Or possibly put OU in Persepolis, which is guaranteed to be a GP farm.

I usually put OU in capital. But this could be a possibilty. In my game i made Persepolis NE/GT combo. After getting my great people to get to lib. I switched to pure drafting. But I can see the benefit in this, If you don't build GT here.

@meatbuster
Yeah, that was quite a sneaky thing to do. Now I realise why you mentioned metal denial in the strategy summary. Its a good map so far - really enjoying the challenge. Could have done with some stone or marble in my BFC too tho ;)

@mjg5591
Yeah, I'm planning on moving my capital to Mutal and running buracracy. I'm not a fan of running both OU and WS in the same city though. The holy cities produce gold, not commerce, so can't help with the research and I don't want the one city to have to build all the gold buildings AND all the research buildings. This is just a personal preference though. I was thinking my GP farm would turn into my OU city once it has pumped out two priests - depends what city sites I find (or capitals I take) in the next phase of the game.

Wow, this one was insanely easy! :crazyeye: Gotta love Darius, King of the Uncrashable Economy.:king: 1786 monarch/epic conquest victory - details to follow soon.

Wow, this one was insanely easy! :crazyeye: Gotta love Darius, King of the Uncrashable Economy.:king: 1786 monarch/epic conquest victory - details to follow soon.

Did you switch of Domination in the victory conditions? I find it impossible to get a Conquest without getting Domination first. :lol:

But yeah, this is my first Darius outing and dang but he is easy. Game nearly finished, will report soon.

^^
You can get conquest with more razing and less capturing. Or capturing everything early (in a pangaea) before many cities are built.

@darreljnz:
You can get Stone or Marble in your BFC if you play the previous Bismarck game. :D

This one didn't work out for me...

Kind of frustrating, after spending all kinds of time working out a dot map and a long-term plan, to lose the game because a Holkan appeared at the absolute last minute! Realistically, I possibly could have pulled back and managed a playable game since I had already captured Pacal's second city, but I was so mentally committed to the idea that my early rush had to succeed that I impulsively threw away all my military units assaulting the capital in vain and then gave up. Not the most impressive performance.

I might try again, since even with the benefit of knowing the initial situation it still seems like there could be an interesting game. Realistically, winning this game via an immortal rush is just sheer luck and seems like it kinda leads to a boring victory if you wipe out Pacal because he never managed to build a Holkan. I'm certainly not going to become a better Civ player by risking the whole game on an early 50/50 gamble, even though it means I'll win half my games and can just restart the other half. I'm more intrigued by the people who decided to coexist peacefully with Pacal for the time being and still managed to win in the end.

@Solon


Yea it's tough to lose that way. Only thing about this game is that I don't think you can grab alot of land without taking Pacal out. In my game his first 2 cities boxed me in. If I hadn't rushed I would only have had 3 cities.

Same thing happened to me. He popped a holkan before I attacked his capital. Being on a hill didn't help either. Fortunatly I brought enough Immortals. His last city though I won a 60/40 battle to wipe him out.

Not much advice to give in this situation, except maybe bring more units, attack earlier, or like you said in your post. Maybe hold of til had more units. Tough loss either way.

Finally won

Well not a really interesting story. After taking out Pacal and building my blocker city it was pretty much an easy game.
I filled up all my land, build up a bit of an army and declared on Alexander. In the end he became a vassal of Kublai when he only had 3 crappy cities left. I took out those last 3 cities (shaka had taken one in the uttermost N-W corner of the continent) and after a couple more turns made peace with Kublai.

After rebuilding my army i declared on Kublai and took him out as wel. Now i had the entire continent except for the little city Shaka had taken earlier. For some reason this really irritated me.
Because of the enormous amount of land and cities i could outperfom the 3 remaining civs with ease. Allthough Huayna was keeping up for a bit. He also had his own continent and was teching pretty good.

I could have gone for a space race which i would have won easily, but that little city belonging to Shaka was annoying me more and more so i decided to attack him.
I took that city and one on his continent and he capitulated. He wasn't very advanced btw, i was surprised that the french hadn't taken him out.

After that i decided to use nukes for once. I figured i would nuke Huayna and take 4 of his cities after which he would surely capitulate. Turned out he didn't.
In the end i must have nuked him about 60-70 times before he finally did. It was fun though :)

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy227/Nothingontv/Victory1979.jpg

@ Solon

I know what you mean, this game hinged on the success of the early rush. which left very little room for varied gameplay. All the writeups I've seen look the same, and mine is no different...

Emperor, Normal, no huts or events as usual.
Start to 1AD:

Settling 1W is a no brainer. Looking forward to using my favourite UU and finding out just how overpowered Darius really is.

Build in Persepolis: worker, warrior until fishing, workboat, continue warrior, workboat, warrior, workboat, barracks, Immortals
Tech: AH, fishing, mining, BW, wheel, pottery, writing, mathematics, sailing, alphabet

3880 BC: I note that Meatbuster has generously given us Pacal, he of the resourceless spearman UU, as a near neighbour in a sadistic effort to blunt our Immortal rush. Mutal is also situated on a hill for added impregnability. Oh, and it just became the Buddhist holy city too.

I discover that I'm sitting right on top of horses, which deprives me of a decent tile improvement but means they are hooked up fast.

There is only one possible strategy here. The start of this game is pretty much a scripted set piece. The race is on to wipe out Pacal before Holkans spell the end of the fun times.

Pacal is off to a flying start:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8348/civ4screenshot0000v.jpg

DoW in 1360BC, snatch a couple of workers:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9765/civ4screenshot0002t.jpg

and take the first city almost unopposed.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5258/civ4screenshot0003j.jpg

Mutal is tougher due to the timely arrival of a single holkan.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/881e0e24c7.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I'm a little worried but I manage to wear him down.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/fe119b724d.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

975 BC The Maya are no more. I occupy myself with barbs for a while, capturing one of their cities. After that I need to try to start making a profit from my new cities so I start cottaging those floodplains.

Kublai's rich, gold-filled lands are giving him a tech edge early on.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5438490c81.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

At 225 BC I finally tech Monarchy and adopt HR. Finally I can get some happiness in this accursed, resourceless wasteland that Meatbuster has dumped us in. :p

125 BC I am pleased when Bhuddist Al attacks Confucian Kublai. I don't expect him to achieve much but they should keep each other busy. Alexander is a violent chap as I discovered in the MS^ Augustus game and I am much happier to see him occupied in the opposite direction.

75 BC Possibly bad news when Alexander converts to Confucianism. I want to keep those two at each other's throats as much as possible.



1AD to Lib:

Stonehenge gives me a prophet in Mutal, who builds the Bhuddist shrine in the same city. Then at 300AD I start doing something I have rarely done before, and that is relocate my capital. Mutal will make a nice cottaged Bureau capital in the near future. Persepolis will be my GP farm.

I finally adopt Bureaucracy at 450AD.

500: Manage to convert the Greeks back to Buddhism with a steady stream of missionaries.

580: The music race gives me a GA. He starts a golden age which will help me build some things and fill in a lot of techs before I start on the Lib trail.


First GS from my GP farm which houses the Great Library (the only wonder I have built thus far), he is used for a Philosophy bulb.

980 Second GS bulbs Education.

By 1000 AD my traits and cottaged bureau capital are starting to pay off and I have a comfortable tech lead on my neighbours, who are too busy fighting each other. My lands look like this (including two former barbarian settlements):

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7774bf4fc1.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Demographics are simply awesome. I have never been first in GNP before unless it was a golden age, very near the end of the game, or I was outputting massive amounts of culture. None of these are the case here. I never have as easy a time on this, and I'm not even very experienced on Emperor yet. :crazyeye:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d795769792.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

1100 We meet DeGaulle and convince him to give us his map.

1190 Brings Liberalism and Steel.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/69bb6a7666.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)


To the end:

Now that I have secured a massive advantage, it's time to put the rest of the world out of its benighted misery and lead them into the shiny high-tech brilliance of the Persian way of life.

Before I get around to that, however, I meet the last civ. Huayna has a big empire, fourteen cities, and is my closest rival techwise.

In 1430 I take the first steps on the path to world domination. I never did trust Alexander, the psychotic swine. It's time to smite him.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3d2ed8c54a.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I capture Knossos quickly, but sure enough you can always rely on Al for a good scrap and he shows up next turn with a nice looking stack which I will enjoy splattering.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ebebe2ed19.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

There is a massive clash of stacks as Alexander tries to liberate Knossos, but he is worsted despite inflicting significant casualties.

In 1470 I tech Rifling. Switch to Nationhood for drafting and Mercantilism since everybody else is running it and there is noone to trade with.

Just as I am exterminating Alexander, Kublai takes him as a vassal in 1560, which constitutes an act of war.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/92bc5fd20a.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

This demonstrates something of a lack of perspicacity on the Khan's part. A few Mongol stacks stray into the warzone and get annihilated by rifles and cannon.

The Greeks are wiped out in 1620. I continue to fight Kublai, since he has no hope of stopping me, but it takes a while. My Great general supermedic is slain in this big battle outside Beshbalik.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5be9d7e8b3.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

He shall be avenged! This is pretty much the closest thing to a setback I face in this war.

Meanwhile in 1700 Shaka betrays his Jewish buddy DeGaulle and attacks. They fight for a while, nobody gains anything, and then they make peace. Shaka delegates control of his island near Persepolis to Asoka.

I continue to steamroll Kublai in a manner devoid of tactical subtlety, eventually eradicating the last of the Mongols in 1814.

My strongest rival is Huayna. He has a higher power rating than me and is in WHEOOHRN mode. I'm building a navy to conquer the world. 1836 I notice that Shaka is also in a violent mood and WHEOOHRN. I'm about to attack, DeGaulle is my target.

1840 My invasion fleet is just about to land on French soil, when I spot an Incan armada just off my shores.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/2228d5f689.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Looks like I'll be invading Huayna instead...I cancel the plans for a French invasion and redirect the fleet, currently en route for Paris, to Cuzco instead.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/54e4727fa0.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I chuckle as Huayna attempts a half-hearted amphibious assault and suicides several frigates to take down a single empty transport.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/cdde26cf71.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Little does he realise that the wrath of god is about to fall upon his capital city!

The small Incan landing party appears with fortuitous timing just as my first bomber is built. They make a nice target for its test flight.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/13c4122646.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

After a further artillery strike these unfortunates are mopped up by cavalry, and then my destroyers and transports amuse themselves by destroying a second wave of frigates and galleons coming up the rear. So much for the Incan invasion.

I park an imposing strike force at Cuzco, giving notice to Huayna of his impending doom.

While all this is going on Shaka attacks DeGaulle again, which doesn't concern us.

Cuzco meets its inevitable fate.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ccf2c17495.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

1852 Sees the addition of Tiwanaku and its numerous wonders to the Persian empire,
as well as the exotically named Ollantaytambo. Meanwhile Huayna has teched Combustion and is working on Assembly Line and so he remains confident that the loss of his wonder-spammed and multisyllabic metropolises is merely a temporary setback and by no means enough of a problem to warrant surrender. Silly him. My bombers and tanks flock to the new bases by air in an ettempt to convince him otherwise.

After losing a couple more cities, bringing the total to five in a few short turns, Huayna begins to see sense and concludes that discretion is the better part of valour.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/09538baff4.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Now I'm a few percentiles away from domination. I invade France in 1864, supported by bombers that I have stationed in neighbouring Zulu lands (incidentally, Shaka is still at war with France). Softened up with heavy aerial bombardment it is an easy thing to roll ashore and squash the hapless defenders flat. And yes, that is a Great Spy of mine standing around looking smug in the screenshot.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0955c095ae.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Three cities including Paris are taken in the blink of an eye and DeGaulle lays down his arms, acknowledging Darius as the Ruler of the Entire Universe, saying Uncle, and generally grovelling in an unseemly manner.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/185e53de18.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

And that's it. Bit of an uneventful game, but I guess it's nice to win by a blowout for once instead of the usual bitter, knife-edge struggles I usually seem to get myself into in these forum games. :lol: Thanks to Meatbuster as always.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7cb60cf4b9.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

^^
You can get conquest with more razing and less capturing. Or capturing everything early (in a pangaea) before many cities are built.


Well, I took the 3rd way, which frequently gives me conquest victories: keep most or all of your first victims' land, after that vassal and give back all their cities, use them as tech partners.

checkpoint 1,2,3 to 960AD:

Looking at the start, I decided to settle 1W to grab more land tiles while retaining the seafood. As a bonus, this gained a plains cow. The starting tech order was fishing> AH> mining> BW> wheel> pottery> sailing> writing. Horses were found under the city tile, and Pacal is close by, so I decide to rush him and hope that he spends his time founding a religion, like he usually does, before heading to BW for his UU. I start by building a warrior, the 2 workboats when fishing is done, followed by a worker and a barracks. I order up 10 immortals, and attack in 1750BC when 7 of them are in position to take his first 2 cities:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0149.jpg

Mutal and Lakamha fall easily, each guarded by a single archer, with nothing whipped. I guess Pacal spent too much time on the religious path and never completed BW, which is great. I get some poor rolls of the RNG and lose 5 immortals taking the 2 cities. As fresh troops come online, I take his final city, also guarded by a single archer, losing 2 more immortals. The Mayan civ is destroyed in 1525BC, and I keep all 3 of his cities, capturing 2 workers.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0135.jpg

Floodplains are cottaged everywhere, and I immediately start moving the palace to Mutal once it comes out of revolt. It is centrally located, so maintenance will be reduced, plus it's a better bureau capital. Persepolis becomes the GP farm, and I hope to build the GLib there. In the short term, I tech alpha and masonry while build a lighthouse there and then start the GLH. Even though all of Pacal's cities are inland, my settling plan will have every additional one on the coast. Here's a shot from 70AD that shows the proposed (and, in some cases, settled) city sites:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0136.jpg

Pacal founded judaism in Mutal, and it starts to spread to the neighbors, Kublai and Alex. In 775BC I trade alpha to Kublai for math and found the city of Pasargadae to block off the peninsula to the west. Alex offers IW for alpha, and I agree. 2 sources of iron pop up side by side on the western side of Pasargadae, and another inland. In 700BC the GLH is done.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0150.jpg

The next techs researched are currency, CoL, mysticism, meditation, PH (to open up a trade for monarchy). I convert to Judaism in 380BC just after Alex does, so we are a bunch of happy jews on this continent.:lol: I looks like I'll be able to live we these guys peacefully for a while (although Kublai can be a backstabber), so the preliminary plan is to try to take steel from lib and then attack with rifles/cannon and take over the continent.

I get monarchy in trade from Alex and convert to HR. I then start up the aesthetics> polytheism> literature line and start the GLib in Persepolis. Since I don't have marble, I clearcut the area around the city in order to get t, finishing off with a 3 pop whip at size 7. In the meantime, I trade currency to Kublai for construction and Alex for metal casting, and reseach civil service. In 310AD the Glib is completed, and in 325AD I revolt to bureaucracy and caste. Persepolis runs 6 GS off of the 3 crabs and cow at size 10.

The first gp born is a GM (from the GLH), which is settled in Pasargadae (the blocking city) for the additional food and commerce. The research order is machinery (for maces and xbows in case the neighbors get frisky), calendar, mono and archery via trade, HBR (trade), paper. In 625AD a GS is born, used to bulb part of education (which is completed in 700AD). I get the greek marriage event, and pay to get +3 relations with Alex. Both he and Kublai are now friendly. Lib is guaranteed at this point, although Kublai is teching well. I research philosophy (founding taoism in Bactra) and all but 1 turn of liberalism, and then start on gunpowder. Kublai asks for paper, and I give it to him. This starts him on the education/liberalism research path, but I've got enough to finish engineering and chemistry before he gets there.

A shot of the Persian empire in 960AD:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0151.jpg

@Solon

I didn't feel that attacking Pacal was anything like a 50/50 gamble; more like a 95/5 certainty. The key is to attack very early - mine was in 1750BC. Since he founded Judaism, it means he probably went med/PH/mono. He never adopted slavery, so that was a clue that he likely would not have holkans. I took 3 cities without ever seeing him whip a unit.

1784AD conquest victory, monarch/epic, final checkpoint:


To recap a bit, after finishing philosophy I switched to pacifism. The first GP out of Persepolis was a GM, due to the GLH influence. Next came a scientist, who built an academy there. Alex was willing to trade me marble, which helped in buildin the 2 epics (Heroic in Lakamha and National in Persepolis). In 1020AD we trade for feudalism from Alex, while continuing the chemistry beeline. After gunpowder we research engineering, checking to see that we will still beat Kublai to liberalism. Finally, in 1180AD we complete chemistry and finish liberalism the next turn, taking steel. Now it's a run down the rifling line: guilds, banking, a detour to economics (for the free GM, sent to Athens for a trade mission worth 1650 :gold: and a revolt to free market), PP (partially bulbed with a GS), rep parts, and rifling in 1385AD. We pop another GM out of Persepolis and use him to start our first GA as we upgrade muskets, maces, and trebs while building rifles everywhere. Cavalry are also on our shopping list, so we research nationalism and Mil Trad, while getting compass in trade from Alex (I want to grab everything that he had that's useful before I DOW him :devil: ). Mil Trad finishes in 1450AD and I upgrade my 1 knight, while switching production to cavalry everywhere (I was pre-building knights in several cities, and holding them off the queue with 1 turn left until MT finished).

A quick look at the tech standings shows that we have a few techs on Kublai, but Alex is gonna be hurting in the upcoming war:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0152.jpg

Power ratings (very misleading, since Alex's units can't stand up to rifle/cannon) show we're well prepared. It's unusual to see Kublai so weak; he usually builds a lot more military than this:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0153.jpg

The Greek War starts in 1460AD, the same year that I find out that Alex is willing to sign a defensive pact. :lol: Sorry, pal, not this time.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0137.jpg

We start taking his cities with no real opposition; all the has are knights, lbows, and maces. I lose maybe 2 cannon the entire war. Our research path is aimed for constitution (we revolt to rep) and democracy (for the SoL). KK already has constitution, but he doesn't head for democracy, so the SoL should be in the bag. I research optics next, so I can hook up the whale in one of our northern cities for more :) . Alex bribes Shaka into the war, but since he doesn't have astro he can't do a damn thing. In 1580AD Alex capitulates after I've taken 6 of his cities, including Athens (pyramids and shwedagon paya) and Sparta, giving me a tundra city, gold, drama, and theo. He's a pleased immediately, and I give him back his crap tundra city (he's got a bunch of them :lol: ). Interestingly, KK was friendly with me the entire time, which was a smart move on his part. In fact, the turn after Alex caps, KK is willing to become my vassal. Hey, what the heck, it'll speed up the win and he'll be a very good tech partner.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0138.jpg

Our tech path is steam, astro, corp, assembly line. In the meantime, I've built West Point in Lakamha (the HE city), and it starts turning out 3-promo infantry. I give them all C2Amphib and they can call themselves marines. I have galleons loaded with rifles just inside my border when assembly finishes, and I upgrade them to infantry and set sail for Shaka (yes, we're still at war). In 1700 I finish sci meth with a partial bulb by a GS, and start communism. The SoL finishes in Mutal, while my troops are busy taking Shaka's cities. When communism finishes I start a GA using the free GSpy and a GS that I'd saved, and switch to emancipitation (KK is already running it), free speech, theocracy, and state property. Watermills and workshops have been pre-built in many cities, and my production really takes off.

After taking 4 of Shaka's cities he's had enough and caps. I gift his cities back and move our healed troops to DeGaulle's border. The first city we take after the DOW is Bulawayo, captured from Shaka in one of their many wars. I immediately gift it to Shaka and it restores the old Zulu cultural borders, giving our troops a nice buffer to work in as I advance to the next 2 target. I take one of them by land, and the other using our amphibious infantry, and DeGaulle caps in 1734AD. I give him back his cities and prepare for the final assault on Huayna. Tech path to this point was RR and combustion, and I upgraded all galleons to transports. My cities were pre-building galleons/frigates/ironclads and taking them off the queue until combustion completed, so I had some quick destroyers. I also upgraded a couple of C2 frigates as well.

In 1744AD Sparta (I think) finishes the Kremlin while I sail to Cuzco. In 1754AD I DOW HC, taking his capital and 2 other cities on his southern coast in rapid succession via amphibious assault. Unknown to me, he had spawned a colony (Roosevelt) on a large island east of Shaka, but I never saw any action from them. Huayna is pretty stubborn, despite having nothing better than a few muskets and lots of lbows, so I continue circling his coastline taking cities. The real prize is Tiwanaku:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0139.jpg

He finally caps in 1782AD after I've taken around 75% of his cities. Roosevelt caps the same turn, and we have a conquest victory in 1784AD (we were about to go over the domination limit on the next turn).
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0140.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0145.jpg

Manufacturing:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0142.jpg

GNP (the drop to 0 at the end was due to being in anarchy while switching to US):
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0141.jpg

Power:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0143.jpg

Mutal:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0146.jpg

Persepolis:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0148.jpg

Lakamha:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NC36%20Darius/Civ4ScreenShot0147.jpg

In retrospect, I was a bit sloppy. I never made an effort to get a GP for the jewish shrine (just forgot, to be honest) which would really have been over the top. I was late in starting AW, which is the best way to get a late-game GP, and Kublai ended up building it (he had stone). But Darius is just so powerful, with fin and org, that it almost feels like playing noble. :lol:

^^
@darreljnz:
You can get Stone or Marble in your BFC if you play the previous Bismarck game. :D
I think I'll live ;)

My game is going well but the tail end of cultural victories are full of hard maths so I'm taking it slow. Should have it done by the weekend. Aiming for a 1600AD finish. Could have got AP victory in around 1100AD if I'd got optics sooner and saw the religious situation overseas. But more on that when I write my end game summary.

10bc. Monarch epic.
Met Pacal while still researching fishing, decided to go BW instead of AH. Pacal got second city where I was planning on settling, he also switched to slavery in 2600bc. Settled city2 on copper just north of Pacal's city and built axes. Lost nine axes, gained 3 cities, 5 workers and Stonehenge by 975bc.
Captured barb city, spammed settlers. At 10bc I've got 10 cities, currency/CoL, breaking even at 50% (financial floopdplains help).
Got Alex to the west and KK beyond him. KK is the tech leader. He got war elephants by 500bc! However its been peaceful so far. No early religions. KK founded confu which has spread to Alex though not to me.
One more city to found (settler being built) then grow cities, expand economy and see what happens.

Hey pigswill, welcome back!
Seems like you're the only one who axe-rushed in this thread. :lol:

Emperor/Normal


Played this one but too busy to write a full write-up on this one. Started like everyone else and imm rushed pacal. By the way, nice with the holkans Meatbuster :)Build up lands and teched until calv/rifle. Took out alex easy with cav's. Then teched to infantry and took out kublai easy. At that point, I had the whole island so it was just pick a VC, i decided on global domination. HC capped after i took cuzco then shaka once I took his capital. Basically the hard part was taking pacal early enough with immortals and avoiding the holkans if possible :)

Monarch epic 760ad.
Got one more city since 10ad. Growing slowly. Confu spread so I adopted it. Alex founded Christianity and has adopted it so not such a friendly continent now. Only just discovered Shaka. Got lib>nat 760ad. Thinking about cuirassiers which need miltrad and gunpowder. Economy's ok so far. I've got a GArtist and I'm debating whether to save him to part bulb miltrad or blow him on a GAge.

@Meatbuster: I axe-rushed because knowing my luck in civ I'd have lost every immortal to holkans, been boxed in early and lost the the game.

Cultural victory 1720AD

1000BC to 265AD

Started this round having just killed Pacal and met Alex and Kube. I had Mutal the double holy city.

Strategies for this phase:

Spread opposite religions to Kube and Alex
Explore rest of continent
Priest specialists for shrines


While exploring I found a barb city near my borders which was was previously Alex's. I took it as it was placed well.

Both Alex and Kube converted religions after a single missionary. What was interesting was the diplo hit didn't have as much of an effect as I expected. It took me +5 or +6 to get friendly with Alex and Kube but they were 0 and -2 diplo with each other and still Friendly! Monarch is hard on the human player!

At this point my economy was sagging so I beelined to CoL and spammed courthouses.

I was the first to CoL so (accidentally) got Confucianism. I also popped a GS which could get Philosophy. At this stage I thought cultural victory is an option as I'd have 4/6 religions so I grabbed Taoism too.

I then changed my GP farm to priests via a temples and some early wonder (I forget which). Popped a priest and founded Hindu shrine (+10 gold) which immediately cured my economy problem.

I needed 3 more great prophets so got my GP farm to start building Ankor Wat.

I them moved my palace to Mutal since it would be my double holy city bureaucracy capital. :goodjob:

At this point I was still on the fence re: a cultural victory but decided to beeline to music so I could grab the GA and a cathedral then CS for bureaucracy to fuel my cottaged capital.

Buddhism and Christianity were both founded offshore so I though (incorrectly as it turned out) there would be some religious tension overseas. More about that later.


265AD to 835AD

The main goal of this round was to backfill 3 city sites and come up with the remaining 3 great prophets. If I got the opportunity to dogpile Alex or Kube after a religious war - all the better.

At this stage I hadn't picked a state religion so I could take sides with whoever was winning. :mischief:

I also thought about optics as I needed to take control of the religious affair overseas just in case it was all Buddhist.

My strategy at this point was clear:

Pick 3 cities for legendary culture
Build 3/6/9 temples for each religion
Build cathedrals and wonders in my 3 cities
When ready to flip the switch run caste system
Run artists in my 3 cities priests/mines in my military cities and merchants/cottages in the rest
Maybe grab some more land if pickings were easy


At this point Alex and Kube were still friendly and I had a tech lead of about 3 techs. I had the weakest military and even though I was +10-ish with Alex I only had 0.6 power rating compared to him. Similar situation with Kube so I needed to do something. I switched to Hinduism (Alex's relgion) and bribed Alex to fight Kube for 1 nice tech and some gold. Within 10 turns both Kube and Alex's power rating were equal to my own - one nice tech was certainly worth it to not have to participate in their escalating arms race.

Ankor Wat completes in my GP farm (took ages without stone!) and I started running 5 priest specialists.

At the end of the round I had a short stint of wonder addiction completing a shrine, national epic, sistene chapel and parthenon all within 3 turns of each other.


835AD-1265AD

This round was about spreading enough religion in my own cities to build temples so I could build cathedrals. It was also about discovering optics to explore overseas.

Alex and Kube made peace at the beginning of the round and were both still friends with me. Alex would be my trading buddy for life (and eventually offers me a defensive pact in the next round).

3rd shrine gets built

Got a message that AP was built and was (predictably) Buddhist.

Discovered optics, circumnavigated the world and found Hyuana and Degalle. Hyuana is 4 techs behind and has founded Buddhism. Degalle is 7 techs behind and has no religion. Got degalles map for 65 gold (cheap!) and saw Shaka and Degalle on the same continent and neither had met Hyuana. This means the two foreign religions were isolated to one AI. Also, since my cultural borders allowed me to get to an island near Degalle without caravels my religion started spreading to Degalle and Shaka immediately. No diplomacy problems for the rest of the game (except for Hyana who would not discover astronomy until a few turns before my victory).

Alex and Kube had had it good for a few turns and I still had a 4 tech lead on Alex so I bribed him again :mischief: Fun and games once more when I see both power charts plummet again.

Popped a GA at 4% chance instead of my 4th prophet so saved him for a future culture bomb.

Was beaten to university of sankore (one of the few wonders I tried for and got beaten too)

Finally got my 4th shrine.


1265AD-1720AD

This round was sooooo boring.


Culture slider at 100% and still making positive gold from my shrines alone (profits from my prophets?)
GA's in my top 3 cities


Basically I was sitting with a spreadsheet open calculating how many CPT in each city plus generating a GA every 11-13 turns.

Had a small skirmish with Kube to see if I could grab a city or two for the extra score but his military overtook mine quickly as I had turned research off. Took about 50 turns to win a cultural victory.


Post game analysis:



Really liked my early game as I had a good strategy and stuck to it.
Biggest flaw in early game was not committing to cultural victory earlier and building more libraries/monasteries earlier
Middle game was good as the shrines were definitely worth it
End game was too slow


Lessons learned:

You don't need heaps of units to rush if you have 1 or 2 highly mobile units in the right place at the right time
Don't be afraid to commit to a victory condition early on if it is clearly the right thing to do
Ignore Wall St and Oxford on cultural victories - you have so many religious buildings to build that you'll never have time for the banks and universities (i guess it might be worth building the uni's if they were half price)
Really push your core strategy to the limit. Ankor Wat was really hard to build but fuelled my entire economy and religious presence for the rest of the game.
The end game of cultural victories is so boring I plan to never do one again.

I forgot! Thanks to Meatbuster for the map, I really enjoyed it!

You're welcome. :D

1720 is an OK date for culture. But yeah, culture sometimes we need to press enter a lot of times. It makes non-backdoor diplomacy wins seem more fun in comparison.

I'm trying the game now but am really having problems with happiness. What did you guys do to combat that? (having to run 40% culture) Also, production is slow as well. I have done decent at the teching but there is only one shrine on the map (shaka) so my merchants aren't cashing in (900-1300 a pop).

I don't see a reason you should run 40% culture...

Let's see...
1. Did you defy any AP resolutions?
2. Are you at war with anyone for a long time? Do your cities share religions with that enemy?
3. Whipped/drafted lately?
4. Are you running Hereditary Rule civic? If you are, then build more troops.
5. Check the resource trades... is there any buddy from whom you can get happiness resources?
6. If all else fails, build more temples/colosseums/theaters.

As for great merchants, just go to the city with Temple of Artemis. Or the capital with a certain distance and large population.

It would be better if you have screenshots, a save and a writeup of what happened so far. That way we may be able to provide more "customized" advice.

I am a little light on the colosseums, I've been busy building knights to attack someone (Alex), I get bored after a while and have to spruce things up. As far as religions go I didn't get one. I usually don't mess with them because they usually get me into trouble and I hate the extra turn(s) of anarchy. I'm almost done with Lib. so it won't matter. On a different note, how do you get a city to grow fast and be productive at the same time. I seem to struggle at this. When I click on the production tab it'll usually make my city stagnet. Sometimes my cities will be stagnet no matter what I do.

Monarch epic. 1450ad.
Haven't played civ for about three months so I'm a bit rusty. My tactics and micro-management are pretty poor. I also wanted to try out the cuirassier/cavalry beeline, which isn't too bad..

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/pigswill-2006/ms9a0000.jpg


After getting liberalism I went gunpowder>miltrad (I'd picked up music earlier for the free GA). Blew the GA on a GA and swopped to free religion. Meanwhile I prebuilt some HAs and eles. Once miltrad was in I spent a few turns on 100% cash and upgraded units to cuirassiers.
Declared on Alex in 1080. Took a while and had to capture 6 cities but he capitulated in 1250. KK had been teching very well and as well as the usual classical stuff I picked up machinery, optics, engineering and astronomy in trades with him.
While the war with Alex was going on I went guilds>banking>economics (free GM) >PP>RP> rifling. Got to rifling in 1280. The GM completed his TM in 1270 so I had the money to upgrade 16 or so cuirassiers to cavaly. Declared on KK in 1285, captured a couple of cities quickly and he capitulated 1295. Moved on to HC (1320-1380), De Gaulle (1400-1420) and finished with Shaka (1430-1445).
Casualties were ridiculously light even against pikes. Only used one city revolt though I had frigates to weaken coastal defences in later campaigns which helped quite a bit. Didn't build a single seige unit (first time ever).

Monarch epic. 1450ad.
Haven't played civ for about three months so I'm a bit rusty. My tactics and micro-management are pretty poor. I also wanted to try out the cuirassier/cavalry beeline, which isn't too bad..

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/pigswill-2006/ms9a0000.jpg


After getting liberalism I went gunpowder>miltrad (I'd picked up music earlier for the free GA). Blew the GA on a GA and swopped to free religion. Meanwhile I prebuilt some HAs and eles. Once miltrad was in I spent a few turns on 100% cash and upgraded units to cuirassiers.
Declared on Alex in 1080. Took a while and had to capture 6 cities but he capitulated in 1250. KK had been teching very well and as well as the usual classical stuff I picked up machinery, optics, engineering and astronomy in trades with him.
While the war with Alex was going on I went guilds>banking>economics (free GM) >PP>RP> rifling. Got to rifling in 1280. The GM completed his TM in 1270 so I had the money to upgrade 16 or so cuirassiers to cavaly. Declared on KK in 1285, captured a couple of cities quickly and he capitulated 1295. Moved on to HC (1320-1380), De Gaulle (1400-1420) and finished with Shaka (1430-1445).
Casualties were ridiculously light even against pikes. Only used one city revolt though I had frigates to weaken coastal defences in later campaigns which helped quite a bit. Didn't build a single seige unit (first time ever).





Woo, 1450! Even on Epic I'm assuming that is pretty fast. Impressive!