Welcome to the 57th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 57th game in BTS the chosen leader was again Charles de Gaulle of the French:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LVII/Civ4ScreenShot0048.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LVII/Civ4ScreenShot0049.jpg
Well, I like Ind/Cha, the traits that de Gaulle has ;) In fact it is one of trait combos I like more when playing a OCC .... barring that, Charismatic is a very, very good trait, even if you don't fight a war in the whole game, due to the added :) . Ind is probably more straightforward: more speed in wonder building is pretty much self explanatory and probably far more useful than half-price forges ( not that half priced forges are bad .... ). About the UU/UB of France ..... well , a UB that gives a free spec is always a good thing to have, especially if you run Representation ( being Ind, our leader normally has a fair chance of building the Piramids ) .... OTOH the value of 2 move muskets is probably discussible, especially in a confined enviroment like a isolated start where the major fights are made with barbs and/or after rifles in 90% of the times .

His UU
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LVII/Civ4ScreenShot0050.jpg
I could had pretty much made copy-paste of the Oromo entry in here with minor detail changes ;)

Musketeers are a musket with 2 moves ( like mounted units ). Like I said about the Oromo, a lot of internet ink already was spilled about the merits of musket-based UU and muskets themselfes ( my point in there is that if you think that muskets have a short life is because you are getting gunpowder too late and/or rifling too early ... and obviously I already made very sucessfull musket based wars, especially with our dear friend Tokugawa ). If you are interested in those discussions you can see the threads that are running in both this forum and on the general discussions ;) My point is that in a isolated start, where muskets come too late to fight barbs , and normally too early for being/figthing a intercontinental invasion, any musket based UU that does not retain it's abilities via upgrade pales a lot....

His UB
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LVII/Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg
The Salon is a Observatory that also gives a free artist. The nature of this bonus is probably as controversial as the French UU :D : some will love it for culture wins, some will argue that a UB that gives a free specialist is always good, especially under Rep, some will curse the GA contamination in their GS directed cities :p To say the truth , I'm in the middle: I'm not a fan of culture wins, but I'm not picky about my GP as well, atleast not as much as a lot of GS purists that fill this forum ;) , so for me a extra specialist is a extra specialist....

The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20LVII/Civ4ScreenShot0052.jpg
Well, people can't complain about the lack of green tiles on this start :p Riverside pig, non-riverside corn , forested silk ( oh, Calendar :) :/ ) ... 3 grass hills on sight, not much of forests, more grass to the NW and desert + FP to the west ( probably a good place for the 2nd city ) . No signs of stone or marble nearby though .... Like I said, lack of food will probably not be a issue in this area ( lack of early prod will probably be more a issue ;) )

Regarding the saves ( if you're using DanF change to the WB files load, skip this ): given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.

Any problem PM me...


P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 ( and earlier ) and 3.17 ( and later ) if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)

Signing in Monarch/Epic after I finish the MS Darius game. Hope to win my first LHC. I lost the Zara game.

Vista is still interfering with BUFFY.

But I can play full civ games w/o freezups or slowdowns now.

I think I'll run this before the MS or IU games.

In place is a good call here IMO. The grain isn't special but the pig is a nice tile and it's got lots of production (with passive river commerce to boot). Not a ZOMG HoF pwn start, but certainly quite good.

I have tried it with PIG mod.


Quite a TCC : two-city challenge oO. In any case, I have quitted when liberalism was here ; basically I was searching civil service, and I was way too much overexpanded I think.

IMM/Normal

Check 1



Wonder spree...

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg



Check 2



I continue whoring wonders and expanding gradually

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

Solid production, very average tech. Nobody is really running away so going nukes is a possibility. I'll probably cut down hammy first before doing that though.

Oddly thanks to delaying bronze an eternity I have a lot of trees left over so I'm just milling them all. Maybe I'll go environmentalism instead of SP. I can FP the hammy continent then just play for vassals after that.

Checkpoint 1 (Prince/Marathon)

Kinda bleh for an isolated start. Marble makes me think maybe go for culture, but 2 religions fell so fast, I fear too many wonders may be gone well before I could get them.

I see another island to the south. I do not yet know what this one holds, as of 3385 BC. I assume its small and fairly uneventful.

I researched hunting and now on to AH (will be done at the perfect time to get those pigs up and running). I popped mysticism from a hut, as well, so I might be able to get my grubby little hands on a religion.

Still, at this point, I do not "know" that I am isolated, so its too early to jump for a religion yet, since someone "might" be on the land I see to the south.

Checkpoint 2 (Prince/Marathon)

The island to the south was much bigger than I expected. In fact, the upkeep there was killing me, so I let Lincoln be my colony. SInce his arrival, he has been helping me out, with his teching, at least.

I managed to get CoL from the oracle, as it was the most expensive tech on the list at the time, which did get me a religion. I also poped aesthetics from a hut!

Mansa came much ealier than I expected, followed shortly by Peracles. Mansa actually gave me his map, so I could see who was expected to come much sooner than they did.

Ghandi came next...with a galleon! At this point, I get a GP and lightbulb for divine right. I thought I might get islam, but due to the bit of research I had to do, I lost it...and everyone got there at pretty well the same time...not even a trading partner! BAH!

Bismark came. He was more advanced than me, too...but I did manage to give him Divine Right and Education for a few techs (Lib was found by Ghandi, I believe, but it was before he met me).

Pacal came last, with the highest score, but way behind in tech. Ghandi is researching democracy, in 1325 (I don't think I have ever seen tech moving that fast...and Peracles isn't far behind...and I think Mansa might be a little AHEAD!)

This might be a hard one. Hopefully I can make friends with Bismark and take down Ghandi and Mansa, since, even if they have the tech advantage, I could build up enough of a military to take them on...I hope.

This one looks like rough waters are ahead.

Here goes nothing...

Gave this a try this morning to around Lib (Emperor/Normal speed):


Settled in place. Some production, not the best start but not the worst either. Settled the marble site, beelined TGL, whipped the Oracle and built the Mids in capital. Take Metal Casting from Oracle, build Colossus.

From here I go after the Great Library, settle the sweet floodplain spot in the middle of the continent as well as some coastal sites and build GL in the new floodplain city. Start cranking out scientists.

Here I go after Caravels to find the others, after that I give Liberalism a try but are way after and haven't completed Education yet when Gandhi snatches it. Trade with the Hindu camp, could probably go cultural victory at this point but I'm just sick and tired of it and decide to try for diplo as I've never won one of those before.

Have started settling the island to the south, so I mass produce courthouses and try to get my economy going, shooting for massive population while at the same time going for Astronomy to start settling the island to the east. Trade Education around for a few spare techs now that Lib race is lost.

The others are way ahead of me tech wise, but I got the most land and hopefully can turn that into victory. No one has Astro. Don't know how to go about winning diplo though, don't have access to any religion yet, and have pissed of the hindu camp.

Monarch/Epic

Checkpoint 1 and 2


Settled in place. Started wrker, war x2, settler @size 4, worker, war, gran, settler, worker.....

horrible tech path was Ah(horses in paris), mining, pottery, bw, myst, fish, sail, mason, writing, poly, PH, alpha, curr, MC, math, aest, lit, cal, IW, monarchy, mach, CoL, CS, compass, optics, paper, med, edu, philo.

2475BC settled orleans (fish/copper/silk)

1675BC settled lyon (pig/marble) made this my HE city.

1650BC SH in Orleans.

600BC settled Rhiems (silver/horse/crab)

215BC settled tours

80BC GP pops settle paris.

Up to 1AD I failed alot of wonders by 5 turns or less. I really should have beelined TGL lost by 6 turns.:( This let me expand and tech OK. I spotted a landmass south of ours reachable by galleys. So I prioritized trying to settle that way.

40AD Settled Marseiles.

250AD Settled Avignion

280AD Settled Chartes.

340AD Colussus in Orleans.

595AD GLib in Paris.

625AD Settled Rouen.

835AD MoM in Orleans.

940AD My first GS pops (sad i know) academy in Paris.

1030AD settle grenoble.

1120AD meet Pericles.

1130AD Meet Gandhi.

1220AD Meet Bismark and mansa.

1250AD Settle Dijion.

1320AD Meet Hammy.Start GA with GA.

1325AD Meet Pacal. Last AI.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/landlhcdegaulle0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/landlhcdegauule20000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/landlhcdegaulle30000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/lhctechgaulle0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/demolhcdegaulle0000.jpg

Really behind in tech. No one has Lib yet so I am trying for it.

I am not good at isolated starts it seems. I should have beelined TGL.

Any advice is really apprieciated. No idea where to go from here.

Thanks Mike

@mjg5591
Obviousy having the great lighthouse on this map would had surely helped, but even then you are doing pretty good. You have more cities than anyone else, more land, more production and are in the top 3 on GNP. As long as you can avoid being attacked in the short run, you have this game in the hand

@rolo

I'm not use to isolated starts. So seeing the tech situation scares me. If I win lib taking astro to hopefully settle land to east. Alot of other leaders have astro though, which means I might lose the continent. Hammy looks like the only 1 i can war with anytime soon.

CHeckpoint 4 (Prince/Marathon)

Right after the last post, Pacal became the whipping boy of the world. There were a series of wars against him, from all sides.

I soon after realized that Lincoln made me miscount when I was looking to see if I had met everyone yet. I finally met Hammy very late (he had combustion!)

Not long after seeing how far behind I was in tech, I started to beeline computers. I was actually the first there, but I ended up losing the race for the internet.

This really set me back. I was able to trade fusion, fiber optics, and fission for almost all the backfill I needed, however. I just wasn't happy to be giving up good techs.

The UN was built, and this worried me a little, because Pacal was the vassel of the rather large Bismark, and I didn't have enough votes to keep anyone from winning.

I probably ended up losing because I was a bit lost the rest of the game. I was going for military, but I felt I couldn't win with my military, which I had neglected all game. Had I done military, I might have cut out enough land to end up winning like that. Had I gone for space, I would have been on the way to ending sooner (I ended up with quite a tech lead).

However, Hammy ended up as everyone's best buddy, and he got just enough votes to win a diplo victory.

Admitted, it was late, 1930's, but it still hurts to lose after fighting back.

I think my big downfall was letting my colonies free. It was a short term gain, but long term, I could have had more benefit keeping them. I certainly need to work more on using vassels...and de Gaulle (I never felt like I was really playing with traits with this particular combonation), as well.

Thanks for the game. I will certainly be in the next one too.

Immortal / Normal - Checkpoint 3. I don't recommend going straight to Astronomy, build your empire first.
But I did, just for kicks. Beelined Literature then Astro. Needless to say, I was the first to circumnavigate the globe, but, just like Rolo says in his article, you meet the AIs without having anything to trade (they wouldn't take my mirrors).

Weird things happen when you put Pericles, Mansa Musa, Pacal and Gandhi in the same continent:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

This was the tech situation a while after meeting the AIs:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Completing the circumnavigation:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Presents from the more advanced old world civilizations. We learned how to breed horses around 3500BC, but only in 1545AD we were taught that we could ride on their backs!
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

Current tech situation, right after the Internet:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

The demographics are not inspiring, but they'll do:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Victory conditions. Something tells me I'll set sail to the Maya land:
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Home island. It's funny that I only realized I had another continent available when it was already being settled by the AIs.
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu284/bonixavier/lhcdegaulle2/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

To 1724AD Monarch/epic


Started off by trading paper and philo to hammy for feud/drama/mono/hunting and 40 gold.

tech order finished philo, lib(took astro),PP(was mostly bulbed), banking, RP, Rif, nation, MT, Chem, steel, Bio

1360AD trade education to bismark for music. He was almost done self researching. education to peri for theo, arc, const.

1380AD Win Lib race take astro.

1390AD trade lib to mansa for guilds/HBR/map to gandhi for GP and 35gold.

1525AD Bribe bismark into war with peri. Peri is running away with tech.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/bismarkwar0000.jpg

1595AD traqde guilds to hammy for ENG.

1605AD Capture barb city on my southen island.

1625AD Declare on Hammy take about 15-20 drafted rifles.

1630AD Take Babylon.

1650AD Take Akkad. Hammy capitulates. Gift him his cities back they had no wonders and I didn't want to defend them. Also culture pressure. Made some resoure trades also with hammy. need all the happy and health I can get.

1690AD Declare Pacal.

1695AD Take Uxmal.

1706AD Take Mutal but lose Uxmal.

1716AD Take Lakamha. Pacal capitulates. Give cities back since he doesn't have holy shrine in mutal for hindu religion. Trade him GP/MT/RP for constitution and SM.

I'm shipping more units over to other continent. Only decision is who is next on the hit list? I have esp on bismark and peri. They are the most advamced. And I think peri has infrasntry.Need to get cannons over there also. They all have rifles now.

Screenshots.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/land1724lhcde0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/land1724lhcdegaulle0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/LHCdegaull1724tech0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/demo1724lhcde0000.jpg

1. AI starts with a vassal and about 12 cities.
2. AI gets nuke-raped to 3 cities (hit by >50 nukes, has perhaps 12-15 total units remaining), its vassal completely obliterated (aka off the map)
3. AI, as the smallest civ on the planet, dogpiled by a civ that now has ~30 cities and 2 vassals, refuses to capitulate.

The reason?

"We're doing fine on our own". :mad:. Is there any #$%^ing pretense of logic in this game? There shouldn't be.

Someone once told me that calling the AI retarded was morally wrong or something. I agree and take it back. The association of ANY human being with this flagrant stupidity would be an insult beyond just about anything else I could manage.

In spite of this and the diplo backlash from firing off about 90 nukes, I might still pull the game out. It's been crazy. I had 2 enemy space ships launched within 3 turns of each other (I almost gave up in despair at that point) but managed to prevent either from winning (whether that asinine 1 SS casing ship would have made it is questionable, but you know how it is for me with random chance...).

So now one of the two superpowers left is on me, and it's a nuclear fling-fest. If I can capture 3-6 cities, I win UN, but that's what's taking so long.

I'm probably going to post a save in bug reports though. The weakest nation in the game should cap to a huge empire that slapped it down.

Checkpoint 1 (Monarch/Epic), with an early question:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z22/fnurt/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Got 6 cities mapped out, everything else looks like junk, but there's a question on my mind as my first settler builds in Paris. Should my next city be the production site to the west, or the commerce site to the south? I feel like this general question comes up in many games although the general answer might be "it depends."

Being industrious, I can see the argument for getting the production site online so I can hopefully spam Wonders faster. But I'd also like to get the commerce city going ASAP so I can tech tech tech.

I don't see much demand for early wonders on this map... Cha leader doesn't need Stonehenge, Oracle is out since I'm likely skipping the religious techs, GL seems pointless since my 3 top cities are all inland. Course, with only 1 happiness resource on the island (and only 1 more coming with Calendar), seems like I either need to build the Mids or plan on teching to Monarchy. Maybe I could settle the production site first, with the idea of starting the Mids as soon as humanly possible?

Just not sure where my early emphasis should be. Any comments are welcome.

Hmmmm. I think I'll move the warrior 1SW and, if he reveals enough hills, move the settler to the river plains tile to take advantage of at least 5 FPs. If not then move Settler 1SE in the hope of getting some more river tiles in the BFC.

Noob question time: How do I do a spoiler tag xD

What do most people do as far as saving the goody huts? As much fun as it would be to try and pop Astronomy from a hut, I feel like it would be too cheesy to try... particularly because, if I didn't already know I was isolated, of course I'd be popping these huts as soon as I find them to make sure I don't get beaten to the punch.

What do most people do as far as saving the goody huts? As much fun as it would be to try and pop Astronomy from a hut, I feel like it would be too cheesy to try... particularly because, if I didn't already know I was isolated, of course I'd be popping these huts as soon as I find them to make sure I don't get beaten to the punch.

I usually pop them right away for this reason. The exception is if a barb gets on them, in which case I use them for spawn busting.

Is popping astro better than popping BW after 5 turns of play? Whipping your first worker early and having the ability to chop might translate to a bigger advantage than having astro a bit earlier.

I'm giving up. I made a key mistake here: the one AI I didn't declare on spammed nukes despite not having uranium, which means that someone who didn't like him a great deal traded it there.

It might be possible for me to win now, but it just isn't worth it.

1865AD Diplo UN win.


From 1724AD to 1796AD I drafted and whipped rifles and cannons.

For teching I had my 2 vassals tech different things, while I teched another. I then just traded my way to AL. Then I turned down the slider the rest of the game upgrading rifles to infrantry and cannons to artilary.

1796AD Declared finally on Mansa. He bribed Gandhi into the war.

1798AD Capture Scythian.

1804AD Capture Varanasi. Gandhi city.

1808AD Peri declared on Bismark. This was big because I was concerned mansa or gandhi would bring him ionto our war.

1810AD Capture Niani.

1816AD Capture Walata. Mansa Capitulates. Gift his citeis back. Need all the units attacking not defending.

1822AD Capture Vijayanagara. Christian shrine. Only 12 gpt though. Gandhi capitulates.
I gift his cities back also. I was way behind in tech so I was aiming for military win. Pericles and Bismark had better units but I had more power.

1841AD After upgrading some units I declare on Pericles.

1842AD Capture Thebes.

1844AD Capture Ephesus.

1848AD Capture Pharsalos.

1851AD Capture Mycanae.

1853AD Capture Sparta.

1854AD Capture Cimmerian. This was last of 4 cities on the continent to my east.

1857AD Capture Athens. Pericles Capitluates.

Next turn Gandhi built UN. I was elected and after checking VC screen. I see I have enough votes for diplo. So I just did that. Bismark only had 6 cities. I could have won conquest easy also. Pericles was the only threat really. He had such a tech lead.

Only few screenshots. I forgot to take them.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/demowinlhc0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/statslhcfinal0000.jpg
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad260/mjg5591/LHCscore0000.jpg


Tough map. My first LHC win.

Really only had 1 Production site. My military was mostly drafted. As stats kinda show.



Thanks rolo for hosting game and the advice.

@TMIT

Wow thats alot of nukes. I don't think I have ever used nukes before. I'm guessing that on the higher levels with the big stacks the AI makes they are needed alot more.

@TMIT

Wow thats alot of nukes. I don't think I have ever used nukes before. I'm guessing that on the higher levels with the big stacks the AI makes they are needed alot more.

It's not that they are NEEDED, but they can be very helpful. In my case I was somewhat backward and decided to use them as a boost. I went fascism/flight/nukes. Nuke a city and paradrop to take it in one swoop. Nuke big stacks if they come after you. Use fighters to absorb enemy fighter interceptions (bearing in mind of course that the target city won't have anything since it was nuked, so you should have an advantage in that aspect). This allows for some VERY fast wars if you have the production. Note that only modern armor and mech infantry do anything impressive to CG II paratroopers, and that the AI won't have STACKS of those because they were already nuked out of existence, preferably on turn 1.

My downfall was that I did not get SDI and that an AI without access to uranium nevertheless declared on me and dropped 20+ nukes on me. What's more, they were the more-rare ICBMs, so they hit my home continent and badly damaged my ability to produce more units myself.

What made the AI choose to nuke my home island cities rather than my stacks on the main continent is beyond me (they had but a warrior each generally), but it was effective. Ironically, the cities I'd nuked to hell on the mainland were starting to catch up as a result, and as you can imagine over 60% of the world's land tiles were desert thanks to GW so after the fallout cleared they weren't too bad.

But the combination of "ai with no uranium builds 20 nukes" and "3 city civ that had its ass handed to it" was too much for me. Even if I could have won this game (I'd say it was 50/50...everyone had been ravaged so badly but I DID have >50% land and about 40% pop) the SPAMMING of illogical factors and annoyance drained the fun. That is its own kind of defeat ---> frustration into quitting is a very real threat in gaming, although I'd argue it's not a good one.

Nukes are never REALLY needed (TMiT is just insane..), but they are very useful. A dozen nukes can completely annihilate an opponents military, the Ultimate Collateral Damage.

Nukes have great synergy with corps.

Indeed, as once every tile is desert only corp output is relevant.

Immortal/Normal Space Colony Victory in 1927ad
My second ever Immortal victory (still learning this level) and the closest most exciting CIV game I have ever played.
:goodjob: Rolo for setting this series up.
The Launch

After making a horrendous mistake where I forgot to switch to Pacifism
after founding and adopting confusion. I therefore ran paganism
throughout and had to switch to FR at lib. for diplo benefit. :mad:
Amazingly I still won lib
around 1100 AD.
The rest of the came was a race to colonize the southern and eastern
islands and get to build the Christo. and the internet. I was able to do this.
The game should now have been easy but Ghandi was running away with a
culture victory. After deciding war was not an option I decided to
crank up the espionage. Had to drop slider and rely on internet as I
switched to Nationhood to build up ep's and then finally crank back
the science a couple of times first to go superconductors->genetics
and the second to go Fibre optics->fusion.
Otherwise it was all espionage all the time. I had to keep Varnassi in
revolt for over 50 turns.


http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3381/civ4screenshot0000.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2742/civ4screenshot0001g.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2114/civ4screenshot0002s.jpg
32 spies and counting
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7186/civ4screenshot0003m.jpg
Scotland Yard/National Park espionage center
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2870/civ4screenshot0004s.jpg
Pre workshopped lumbermills and cottages along with shift to
Caste/SP/US/
Damn the unhappiness need to finish the spaceship both engines and a
thruster will come in exactly at the same time for a 4 thruster/5
casing launch
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5230/civ4screenshot0005i.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1767/civ4screenshot0006y.jpg
Varnassi is overrun with my spies as it continues to revolt.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3096/civ4screenshot0007.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4029/civ4screenshot0008.jpg
Simultaneous spaceship part builds still on time.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7715/civ4screenshot0009.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8484/civ4screenshot0010.jpg
We have lift off :) but the game is far from over...
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/820/civ4screenshot0011.jpg



Nail biting and espionage time:


Despite my setting Mansa on Ghandi and Pacal having a long war with
him his cities are impregnable and he vassalized to the powerful
Bismark at some stage.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5061/civ4screenshot0013.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7776/civ4screenshot0014.jpg
I suddenly realize that Vijaynagra is now almost going legendary :eek:
I move a bunch of spies over there and start revolting it one turn short of legendry.
:high5:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8397/civ4screenshot0015a.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4348/civ4screenshot0016.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/64/civ4screenshot0017.jpg
Vijaynagara just manages to revolt as I run out of stationary spies with
a turn to go. Can't revolt Varnassi but I had destroyed so many
culture buildings with spies that it was too feeble to stop my
victory.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7307/civ4screenshot0018.jpg



The victory :king:


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6808/civ4screenshot0019.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9029/civ4screenshot0020q.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/318/civ4screenshot0021.jpg
What about Paris!!!
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2442/civ4screenshot0022.jpg
Not a speedy civver but do walk off with the program running.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9444/civ4screenshot0023.jpg
De Gaulle only got use out of his UB in this game and the industrious
trait never even built HE.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8963/civ4screenshot0024.jpg

IMM/Normal 2nd attempt...



Settled in place again. Generally didn't pursue as many wonders. I hit MC with oracle, got colossus, and generally beat the AIs to the islands. Then since I realized that just like last time, this time was a big AI group hug, I didn't fight the trend.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/TMITCiv4/LHC%20De%20Gaulle%202nd%20attempt/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

For just over 60K in score.

Monarch/Epic, 10 AD:

This is a tough one for me. I've got some serious cottage spam going, and maybe I'll be a tech monster once they finally mature, but I've only teched as far as Currency and someone discovered Taoism already. That's not great. Not much production on this map either, I have only one production city going and I'm just getting around to completing Maoi to have a 2nd city with a little production. I really wish I'd gotten around to exploring the landmass south of me a lot earlier.

I stayed away from wonders since I have a lack of hammers, my main cities are inland (no GLH/trade route economy) and I'm cottaging rather than going with specialists. The only one I built was the Hanging Gardens, although I finally have marble hooked up so maybe I'll go for some midgame wonders.

Tech path was AH-Mining-BW-Pottery-Writing-Myst-Poly-Priesthood-Hunting-Archery-Fishing-Sailing-Monarchy-Math-Masonry-Currency-Calendar-MC-IW (since I finally see jungle on the southern landmass!).

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z22/fnurt/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

First priority is getting that jungle cleared out and settled. Second priority is making contact so we can see about getting some techs via trading. Teching in isolation is not cutting it!

Checkpoints 1-3.5:

Decided to move the cap to the FP spot. Having explored, my dotmap looks fine (though I plan a couple of unmarked fillers as well) which is not always the case after a capital move:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0042-1.jpg

At the risk of being redundant, GL stands for Great Lighthouse ;) It's a fantastic wonder for IND civs (no multplier) and I plan to chop it here. Our home island is rather small, so I want to settle the island to the south ASAP after GL is up.

The intial wonders didn't fall that rapidly, so I was pretty confident about GL, and it duly completed around BC 1400. Relatively soon the AI Wonder-spam started to pick up pace with only the Pyramids being 'late' AD50 or so. This was a bit of shock:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0042-1.jpg


Sankore in 225AD :crazyeye: Highly likely that the GE insta-built it, but the greater concern is that the AI has Paper at this stage: it tends not to value the tech (hence why the player has a chance at Lib), so I look to be staring up from a massive tech hole.

I keep on expanding, but the bad news is confirmed in 840AD when I meet Gandhi:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0047-3.jpg

Incredibly, the situation got worse: not only did Hindu Peri have the same techs a Gandhi, but an unknown civ claimed Liberalism in AD960, meaning half the AIs have a massive tech lead over me :rolleyes:

Met Hindu Mansa (Mr Lib, I think) around 1000AD, but it was another 100 years before I encountered Bhuddist Pacal. Unsurprisingly, Pacal is worst enemy of the Hindu bloc, but I had little choice but to trade Edu for most of Astro in spite of the WoE with the Hindus.

Have just met Hammy, who must have been cut off from the other AIs for a good while, as he's backward and isn't Pacal's WE. The tech situation looks like this:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0050-3.jpg

Only Peri has Chemistry, so I plan to trade in Construction & Engineering and hope that Cheistry still has trade value when I complete it. Reaching the main AI island provided a huge trade-route boost to my economy (ca 35gpt), but I'm still looking at almost certain defeat.

Checkpoint 3.5 to the end...

Traded techs like the whore I am, and, after getting a low odds artist with my first attempt, I get a GM in 1530ish to found Sid's Sushi in 1540. I might win this yet...

This Sid's Merchant was only my fourth of the entire game: an early GM from GLight, GS for Academy & the ill-timed Artist being the others. Now that I was set for max Artist generation, I had no choice but to eat 3 turns of anarchy to go from HR-BUR-Slavery-Decentr-OR to REP-FS-Caste-FM-Pac.

Gandhi completes Apollo in 1650 :sad: At least the AIs are cramped for room, so maybe his production will lag behind his tech rate. This wasn't the least of my problems as Pacal was in WHEOOH in 1575AD, and my economy was tanking at 100% culture with most cities building wealth (and running merchants), so my military was paper thin :eek: At least Pacal was pretty backward (no chemistry) so the invasion will be a long time coming (if it ever comes).

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0075-4.jpg


Bugger. It actually came as a bit of surprise: I'd sent a Galleon, then a caravel over to Pacal-land to check the status of his armada, but it seems the ships passed in the night. Saw off Pacal's initial 3 units on my mainland, but the next two waves went for the island due south of the motherland. He'd managed to destroy my Galleon on the opening turn of the war, so I had no way of reinforcing Rheims, which duly fell.

By this time I had Combustion, so I trained some better boats to ferry my army across. Whilst these preparations were ongoing, Gandhi declared (unbidden) on Pacal :woohoo: Pacal soon sent a Destroyer my way, which tore up my nets but couldn't prevent me re-taking Rheims and buying peace for Biology. Pacal soon capitulated.

My Artist generation went without a hitch, and I fired off a dozen culture bombs to trigger victory in 1846 :goodjob:

The AIs didn't make much progress on their ships: Peri completed the sole part & Gandhi's culture attempt seemed half-hearted and was nowhere near fruition, so the win was much easier than expected on first contact.

Here's my checkpoint #1

Monarch/normal.


Here's the screenshot of the island...

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/simon_c591/civ/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

I setup city#2 on the floodplains next to the pigs, it should get marble soon.
Being industrious, I'm aiming to be somewhat of a wonderhoar, and at 825bc, I've got the pyramids and the oracle. Took CoL from Oracle, giving me a religion which will help me get the border pops in the rest of the cities.

I think the island is a little food light. the only real place for a GP farm is Orleans.

There's enough sea food around the north coasts to support coastal cities, maybe it's worth trying to get the Great Lighthouse too ?.
I plan to aim for the Great Library and Orleans and run 4 scientist there to pop some great scientists on the road to Liberalism. I'm not sure where my production city will be, maybe Paris. Yellow dot will be MoiStatues city I think.

@ simon

I would have tried to take monarchy with the oracle. Only 1 happy resource. TGL would be awesome for this map, with most cities being coastal. I got beat to it in my game.

@ simon

I would have tried to take monarchy with the oracle. Only 1 happy resource. TGL would be awesome for this map, with most cities being coastal. I got beat to it in my game.

@mjg5591

I missed the GLH, but I think representation gave me enough happy so I didn't need monarch.


Now way beyond CP2, and 3, well into modern age, and still no idea what I'm going to win on. But, I am now top of the leader board, but still improving my land.

I missed getting the continent to the east, but did get the one to the south.
Masa went and landed some cities on my south coast though, git.
I can't get the production leed I need for war, but I am the head honcho at the UN that Gandhi built. I don't think I can get everyone friendly with me though, even if most are happy.

if I can get my production up, I may try a nuke war...
1) build lots of nukes,
2) ban nukes,
3) pick the biggest AI.
4) nuke him and para drop to take cities.

maybe.

CP3, screen shots and demographics


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/simon_c591/civ/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee19/simon_c591/civ/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

@mc-red:

That's an incredible way to finish a game. Nice work!

@king pluto

Thanks I really enjoyed that one too.
It was a chance to use techniques I learnt from all the great posters on these forums so was
satisfying.
Reality is though I am having a hard time in general on immortal LHC such as the current SB one.

Checkpoint 1.


Noble/Normal to 2880 BC.

I settled in place for what I think will make a nice commerce capital. I've laid out dot maps of prospective cities, still working on the ones to the south.

Second city is going to be production, west of Paris, what then, I'm not sure.

Have spotted more land to the south so I'm beelining some techs to help with both naval capability and food production. I would like the Great Lighthouse if possible.
Hooking up the silver and marble is high on the list too.

I was lucky, popped a Scout from one hut and Writing from another.

A screen shot of the island so far...
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo67/LPlateDeveloper/LHC_LVII_1.png

Managed a late diplo win (again) in 1880s while I was planning a nuke fest against Gandhi.

It seems accidental diplo wins are the only way I win LHCs...

I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about. But having read a few posts here, the game lacked a little excitement. I tried the emperor level and built a few wonders. Oracle'd a religion and nabbed 2 prophets for a shrine and the AP. AP religion spread to Hammy on it's own then to Bismarck through a random event. Popped astro by accident when I forgot about a warrior guarded hut on the south island. (At the time I had saved a turn or two of overflow science into it.) Prepared for a rifleman war on the big continent by Taj'ing myself into US, FS and Emancipation. Ghandi and Mansa went to war with Pacal while I beelined rifles. They treatied and soon I DoW'ed Pacal. AP resoved to war with Pacal thus bringing Hammy and Bismarck into it. Rifles dominated and Pacal capitulated with 3 cities left. It's somewhere around 1525 AD right now with everyone having spawned GE's. (Pacal settled his.)

Seems like space should be easy and I have SP or Mining Inc. to think about. I also can go either sushi or cereal. Or maybe I just AP win this one. My capitol has both Oxford and Wall street. Game seems over to me really.

Edit: Decided on a culture win in 1892 AD with hammers and sushi, one turn before a space win. Ulterior reason: win a secondary, smaller culture victory against India so I could farm over some of his cottages. Succeeded! Got major mileage out of the Kremlin. Near the end this random event turned up:
Our game designers have developed a new addictive game of civilization. How shall we proceed?