Buwahahaha, usually I don't post these shots, but since people keep asking to to see them this happend just now.

I thought I'd start a nice deity Churchill game this saturday afternoon. I spotted a hut close to my starting location, and right away it spawns FIVE warriors!

Not one...
not two...
not three...
not four...

FIVE!! WARRIORS

Nobody has a chance winning there.

But all is not lost, I had 2 gold hills in my fat cross and beelined after archery... I was playing very, very safe. I also had very isolated terrain, which was supposed to be very, very safe from barbs.

Like a good little boy, playing very safe, I beelined an archer and got that unit moving out again like a good little safe boy. And then I decided to be extra cautious, and even get another archer out. Now remember, I am protective here, so I am getting both CGI and Drill I.

Well, despite all these extra safety features... low and behold I get the breaking Vedic Araying uprising stack right next to my capital in 2520 BC.

When I say next to my capital, I do not mean nearby the capital, or nearby the culture. I mean... LITERALLY.. just 1 frieken tile between me and the uprising stack. Just ONE tile!!!

And even though I was being extra safe and had a super strong archer that was just ready to to pop, obviously that was not going to cut it vs a stack of Aryans.

Of course, the next turn I just cringed and hit end-turn (hoping for a miracle). Nope... capital fell, end of that. Thanks for wasting my time yet again Firaxis.

I just don't know... some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on so I don't feel guilty, but then you run into un-winnable situations like this.

I still gotta laugh at those self-proclaimed experts who insist that it's always the fault of the player for losing to Veds... Maybe I should hire one of them to tutor me, while they still know everything? Do I possibly have a major leak here???

At least they didn't hit me right after the first worker was out... so technically I did have a small chance in hell of defeating that stack.

http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/2/10/24/obsolete/f_16lk3xwb34wm_4566c6b.jpg

ouch, that hurts. i play with random events on because i like the randomness, although that particular event should definetly be toned down. 2 or maybe 3 archers. so its not a neccesarily game-over card like it is now.

terrible luck.

You seem to run into those barbarian uprisings so often. For me I am strongly tempted to turn random events off when I get the slavery revolt in the capital. It only seems to hit when I start pounding the AI or make a really fine move. Then wouldnt you know it? my slaves are rebelling, oh and dare i risk the chance that it will solve itself? NOPE. One time it lasted for 7 turns..... 7 turns without your capital can turn a winning game into a losing one.

I myself have never had the uprising happen to me, It has just happened once, and they were towards one of the AI cities. To each his own random event bull****.

I HAVE permanently disabled events.

But note that to trigger this event yourself, you actually have to have archery. So, now it's up to you. Do you want to gamble on a strat resource, go ultra balls to wall spawn bust warriors, or tech archery and ironically get screwed because the V. Aryans took all your arrows?

I have never lost to this event (though I have had it a few times), but I am sure I play on a much lower level than you, as well.

I believe the biggest issue of the vedic random is that, if I am correct, it can happen as soon as random events are allowed to happen, when the AI's start with archery. (Edit: TMIT seems to have just corrected mymisinformation. I'd certainly trust him more than me!)

Sometimes things like that happen.

Oh well.

It doesn't make the whole system unfair, it just means sometimes you get so unlucky that you really just don't have a chance.

I once had a map where I started in isolation at the very south, the cross of my capital looked nice, and I had room for 10 more cities, consisting of about 40% tundra and 60% ice. The map generator isn't broken, its not unfair, its just that every now and then you get unlucky, just like random events.

Better luck next time, at least you weren't too far into the game.

:lol: You know you have to turn these events off obs.I have no idea why people say turning them off is cheating, events off is by far the most balanced way to play the game.

A few of the most ridiculous ones are:

this one
+4 hammers for a coalplant
free GA when starting a war

And the annoying ones
buildings have been destroyed , always includes forge, this one happens a lot in my games
slave event but ok at least this one let's the player consider leaving slavery

This is all way out of proportion and possibly gamebreaking. Comparable to playing chess and suddenly that big hand out of the sky snatches a pawn or a knight off the board.

:lol: You know you have to turn these events off obs.I have no idea why people say turning them off is cheating, events off is by far the most balanced way to play the game.

I agree, it's not cheating. Nor removing barbarian or hut is cheating, and they are random too. But they are not exactly inbalancing factor, especially in SP. Civ4 is already a pretty random game anyway.
This is all way out of proportion and possibly gamebreaking. Comparable to playing chess and suddenly that big hand out of the sky snatches a pawn or a knight off the board.

It's out of proportion when you don't like to change your plan. Compared to some real life event, they are pretty mild. And all in all, it's more a case of "are you willing to have some random factor ?" than other thing, because making the best out of good event and minimizing the worst is simply part of the game.

I think that the HOF mod prevent these type of early barb events. You still can have your events, you just won't get surprised really early.

anyone that wants to change that stuff can go into the xml file and make it happen later, for instance by making masonry or monotheism a required tech.

or if you're like me, you can turn the tsunami event back on.

I can't really articulate why I don't turn events off. I think for me, the entertainment/pleasant surprises they provide outweighs the annoyance from negative events. Obviously a game-ending negative event is pretty hard to balance out with the entertainment factor.

That one does sound like a no-matter-what-you-do-you're-screwed event, though, and is pretty hard to justify.

If everything was completely balanced though then the game would become boring. I go for random events but this one is more like Firaxis saying "start the game over please". This one really bugs me.

I agree, it's not cheating. Nor removing barbarian or hut is cheating, and they are random too. But they are not exactly inbalancing factor, especially in SP. Civ4 is already a pretty random game anyway. (emphasis added :p)

I agree with this sentiment, with the caveat I am adding at the bottom of this post. I enjoy playing with events on: there are already so many random factors thrown into the mix that generally the "wacky" nature of events seems to fit in imo, though this particular instance does indeed look like the sorry, game over event... lame.

anyone that wants to change that stuff can go into the xml file and make it happen later, for instance by making masonry or monotheism a required tech.

or if you're like me, you can turn the tsunami event back on.

I know that the PIG mod, which I use, removed those questionable barb events entirely. Doesn't the HOF mod prevent them as well?

I agree with this sentiment, with the caveat I am adding at the bottom of this post. I enjoy playing with events on: there are already so many random factors thrown into the mix that generally the "wacky" nature of events seems to fit in imo, though this particular instance does indeed look like the sorry, game over event... lame.


What I find lame is the first battle against barb. Even by stacking all your chance, you still have a 20-30% chance to loose your only scout / your defense trireme. All you need is a tiny string of bad luck to lose all unit and the game in the same move. It happen far more often than vedic aryan.

I know that the PIG mod, which I use, removed those questionable barb events entirely. Doesn't the HOF mod prevent them as well?

I Run BUFFY and just got hit with a stack of 6 Vedic Aryan Horse archers. It might delay them though, it was 340 BC.

There were not many civ versions that had random events iirc. I think civ has enough randomness to prevent the game from being boring, at least the you can turn it off. Generally it isn't a matter of being able to cope, losing a forge is just annoying but it's improbably you lose the game that way.

The event obs is describing here means end of a game and so either a waste of time or a hack into wb to cut the units out but that's frowned upon some time too. Civ's a much better game without this sort of nonsense going on so disabling events is the way to go imo.

What I find lame is the first battle against barb. Even by stacking all your chance, you still have a 20-30% chance to loose your only scout / your defense trireme. All you need is a tiny string of bad luck to lose all unit and the game in the same move. It happen far more often than vedic aryan.

Agreed, early naval combat pretty much sucks, as do early fights against animals. :crazyeye:
I feel like a spokesman for PIG mod by now, but scouts are given more of a sizable bonus against animals to offset their woeful strength.

There were not many civ versions that had random events iirc. I think civ has enough randomness to prevent the game from being boring, at least the you can turn it off. Generally it isn't a matter of being able to cope, losing a forge is just annoying but it's improbably you lose the game that way.

The original Civilization had random events. ;)
They were never "positive" for you, unless they struck your opponent. They could be avoided by building appropriate buildings.

^The original civ was great, best version for me apart from civ4. I think events should have been implemented in civ4 that way too. I have no objections to events where you can build appropriate buildings against them just a i have no problems with normal barbs. Having said that, civ1 was unbalanced as hell. One time the babylonians built Apollo 1ad in a game where i thought i did pretty well.

I like events, I like huts, I like barbs. I have no issues when I see a message that a distant civilization has been destroyed in 2000BC, so I have a hard time justifying doing a little World Builder hocus pocus when I am looking down the barrel of this particular event.

On the other hand, another civ falling to this event often is a negative thing for me (like when it allows Zara to expand to twice his normal size unchecked,) so I'm not above just dropping in a couple archers into my own city to weather the storm and then deleting the units after the Barb stack is dead.

I generally keep events on but the usually run heavily negative to me. For every one extra commerce in plot or the like, there's like three tornados or whatever. My most hated are those that destroy several buildings including usually a forge.

Question: Are the quests tied to the events engine? I've been curious but never tested it

Question: Are the quests tied to the events engine? I've been curious but never tested it

Yes, and they have their share of ones that are commonly seen as broken. Colosseum quest w/ SoZ springs into mind (gives a golden age). Runner-ups are Swordsman quest for CR and Musket quest for free Pinch.

I know that a lot of higher level players usually disable huts because they're too random, but doesn't that make the game easier. I've heard people say that they play the start they generate, but why not make the game a bit more difficult?

I believe the biggest issue of the vedic random is that, if I am correct, it can happen as soon as random events are allowed to happen, when the AI's start with archery. (Edit: TMIT seems to have just corrected mymisinformation. I'd certainly trust him more than me!)

Yes and no.

It can't happen to you until you have Archery.

It can happen to the Civ next to you such that the archers wind up beelining you next and killing you before you even have archery.

Yes and no.

It can't happen to you until you have Archery.

It can happen to the Civ next to you such that the archers wind up beelining you next and killing you before you even have archery.
It can , in spite of being generated for other civ that fulfills the prereqs, decide that one city of yours is a better target and zoom against you....

This is probably one of the things that people dislike to talk about events: some of them simply don't do what they say they do, but something that in 90% of the games looks like what they were suposed to do. Besides the uprising events, that can decide to target another civ of other civ just because, we have ,for example sake, the partisan event , that checks for plot culture of the razed city instead of the city ownership to get what nationality will the partisans be ( that is , you can raze a Aztec city and get Indian partisans if by acident you are in war with the two and the indians have more plot culture in the razed city than the aztecs :p ). That kind of stuff simply makes me :cringe: and :gripe: , because it is far from obvious and needs heavy code digging to be known.

I play with them on--and in my mind the archer one is the only really broken one--it's a game ender.
So i'll go to WB and drop a few tanks on for a turn.
The slave revolt I like--IMHO slavery is a bit OP so it's good to take it down a notch.
None of the others compare with the other luck factors in the game.

I know that a lot of higher level players usually disable huts because they're too random, but doesn't that make the game easier. I've heard people say that they play the start they generate, but why not make the game a bit more difficult?
huts make the game easier.
sure the AI will get more of them but often getting 50 or 100g or a tech is the difference between crashing the economy before writing or not--or getting to a key wonder tech (GLH).

Being able to avoid all slave revolts by turning off events kind of defeats the purpose. Hut gold has a huge impact on the early game. As long as you have hut gold, you can play an exponential growth game, but once you run out you have to start balancing your income. Over-expanding without pottery is a lot different than over-expanding with pottery.

I think it's more that a few highly vocal players play with no events.

I like both events and huts.

In real life, all sorts of stupid and unfair things happen to you, but some good things happen to you, as well. Why shouldn't the game reflect that? If you lose on turn thirty to some unfortunate barb uprising, oh well, boo-hoo. Start a new game. Maybe the next one you'll pop three really good techs from huts. Who knows? Who said life is fair?

It just makes it all more interesting, IMHO. If it were easy, I would have given up Civ a long time ago.

I like both events and huts.

In real life, all sorts of stupid and unfair things happen to you, but some good things happen to you, as well. Why shouldn't the game reflect that? If you lose on turn thirty to some unfortunate barb uprising, oh well, boo-hoo. Start a new game. Maybe the next one you'll pop three really good techs from huts. Who knows? Who said life is fair?

It just makes it all more interesting, IMHO. If it were easy, I would have given up Civ a long time ago.

Games are generally not designed to represent real life. The very premise of civ is evidence of that :p.

Being able to avoid all slave revolts by turning off events kind of defeats the purpose.

And what is the purpose? We're given an alternative that is better with or without the risk of the consequences, such that revolts are an annoying penalty on a civic that is still the best choice for a long period of time. If the intention was to nerf slavery (which would have been understandable at some point), going with a reasonably-rare event that doesn't penalize players evenly on a game to game basis doesn't seem like the right approach. This is forced chance advantage to some players and not others irrespective of skill, although the advantage isn't glaring at least like with some other events.

huts make the game easier.
sure the AI will get more of them but often getting 50 or 100g or a tech is the difference between crashing the economy before writing or not--or getting to a key wonder tech (GLH).

I would argue that huts make the game easier or harder in a somewhat erratic fashion. You don't want cyrus getting AH on turn 3, but then getting writing or HBR (!) ~ turn 20 can be helpful too! I tend to turn them off since it seems to force the human to mitigate expansion rate carefully.

I will concede that the vast majority of events are not typically gamebreaking (though one must point out that several of the diplo events and some early game uplifts do distort things a lot). However, they are very frequently incessant annoyances and that's enough for me to have canned them forever. Actually the straw that broke the back wasn't the Aryans (though I've eaten a VA or two in my day), but actually a RELIGIOUS WEDDING. Something that you never see people complain about in events. However, I was handed an instant DoW by it, and very early on. Since I was shaky due to some RPC rules to begin with (such as no slavery), this turned out to be a severe disadvantage.

Games are generally not designed to represent real life. The very premise of civ is evidence of that :p.

It's just an analogy you old toad. :rolleyes:

I like events, I like huts, I like barbs. I have no issues when I see a message that a distant civilization has been destroyed in 2000BC, so I have a hard time justifying doing a little World Builder hocus pocus when I am looking down the barrel of this particular event.
You are forgiven! Good bless, ya!

@Lemon Merchant
That's not a real life, far from. In RL one has girls to cope with, which is enough I believe.

@TheMeInTeam
Getting currency(!) out of hut on a small island w/ culture seems damn game breaking to me

You are forgiven! Good bless, ya!

@Lemon Merchant
That's not a real life, far from. In RL one has girls to cope with, which is enough I believe.

@TheMeInTeam
Getting currency(!) out of hut on a small island w/ culture seems damn game breaking to me

Hmm you may be right. I've never experienced that and as a result wasn't aware of it.

It still doesn't hold the teeth of a global +3 relations boost though.

one thing i do if i get a really bad event that screws me over for a time like just building a forge and have a volcano, hurricane and fire go of in the next 3 turns..ill just turn on editor and put them back, .as for the you lose barb event, you could just turn on editor and either kill the units or erase them or make units to defend then kill the extra units when your safe.

one thing i do if i get a really bad event that screws me over for a time like just building a forge and have a volcano, hurricane and fire go of in the next 3 turns..ill just turn on editor and put them back, .as for the you lose barb event, you could just turn on editor and either kill the units or erase them or make units to defend then kill the extra units when your safe.

Wouldn't it be alot easier (and WAY more fair to the AI) if you just turned off the events? Or at least if you turned off the ones you don't like in the XML so that the AI didn't have to suffer through events you WB away.

im not too great a player yet but ill take most bad event as they come, i just dont like a certain few. ill take a fie or volcano or hurricane any time but not all 3 together.. the volcano one ill just rebuild tiles. so its not too dangerous

the volcano one ill just rebuild tiles. so its not too dangerous
Unless it happens 4 times in a short period. :mad:

If you can't stand random events like these (which is fair enough - I know obsolete hates losing games that weren't his fault) then don't play with them on. Alternatively it takes 10 keypresses to fix it. 5 times to press backspace, and 5 times to press 0.

We all know the 5 uprising events are broken (as in game-breaking). What's the point of starting another thread to complain about it?

Regarding barbs from huts popping near your capital, either turn huts off or accept that sometimes you are going to get screwed by them if you pop them when you can't defend yourself from them.

Regarding barbs from huts popping near your capital, either turn huts off or accept that sometimes you are going to get screwed by them if you pop them when you can't defend yourself from them.

Amen. You knew what the possible outcomes were, positive and negative, before you popped the hut. If there's a box on the table and you are told that it either contains $1000 or a live cobra... well... if you just gotta stick your hand in there, don't complain about the poison.

Why don't people just load from an autosave in the case of screwy stuff like this? No one's forcing you to go all the way through without saving/loading.

Amen. You knew what the possible outcomes were, positive and negative, before you popped the hut. If there's a box on the table and you are told that it either contains $1000 or a live cobra... well... if you just gotta stick your hand in there, don't complain about the poison.

This analogy fails, unless a room of 4 year olds led to believe the box on the table can only contain candy stick their hands in after you refuse to do so, and the poison from the cobra bite kills you.

This analogy fails, unless a room of 4 year olds led to believe the box on the table can only contain candy stick their hands in after you refuse to do so, and the poison from the cobra bite kills you.

How is that analogy any better? Are you likening civ players to four year olds?

How is that analogy any better? Are you likening civ players to four year olds?

The AI rather, since it will pop that hut if you don't, and the game has no problems handing barbs that will proceed to attack you :sad:.

Edit: although perhaps 4 is too old, I think my nephew would know that situation as bad already ;).

The AI rather, since it will pop that hut if you don't, and the game has no problems handing barbs that will proceed to attack you :sad:.

Edit: although perhaps 4 is too old, I think my nephew would know that situation as bad already ;).

It would be pretty rare wouldn't it? I mean, an AI would need to pop enough barb warriors they they kill his unit and have enough left over to beeline your city and capture it. At high levels the AI unit is probably an archer usually, right?

If the AI is using scouts he can't pop those warriors anyway.

Not everyone runs those levels. Also, are barbs popped from huts guaranteed to have max attack courage? Historically I've had some problems with barbs blowing right by my archer "fog busters", like back in LHC cathy days. That was before I knew how to control barb spawns entirely...but IIRC it was somewhat annoying to watch barb warriors and even archers ignore a jungle archer and keep going right for my tiles.

huts make the game easier.
sure the AI will get more of them but often getting 50 or 100g or a tech is the difference between crashing the economy before writing or not--or getting to a key wonder tech (GLH).

I disagree when looking at the most common scenario for high level play. The AI will pop far more huts on most random maps and the fact that they start with all the basic techs means there's a good chance that someone aquire costly techs from it extremely early. The player can get a few huts with some luck on deity if they start with hunting, starting with a warrior means getting 2 huts is a good scenario.

At least the game over events are early in the game when you have not invest too much time / efforts into the game.

For me, putting up with some random auto loss occasionally is a price to pay to have the chance to have quests enabled.

Basically I hate the barbarian uprising events, don't like the building / mine destroy events, but I just can't resist the lure of having quests / challenges to fulfill.

I've lost/restarted games maybe a couple times due to events, but I can't recall any specific incidents.

I've lost/restarted games because of the lay of the land, the neighbors, the isolation or lack thereof, my own forgetfulness ("Oops, spent five minutes picking map settings AI civs but forgot to pick my own"), etc, maybe a couple thousand times.

I suspect it's like that for a lot of people, but some just gotta complain.

'some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on "

yes. all victory conditions, barbs on, random events on.
all won games without these conditions are beneath a look.

no compromise.

Why don't people just load from an autosave in the case of screwy stuff like this? No one's forcing you to go all the way through without saving/loading.You might have to go back several turns for this; I'm an inveterate reloader (one of the reasons I abandon too many games, 'cause they "take too long" :hammer2:), and have had the same event happen again.

Is the info about which events are enabled available to the Python code? I need to learn how to write mods at some point, and selectively turning off unwanted events might be a fun hack. If nobody answer here I'll ask in the mods forum when I get a round tuit.

I like events but am sympathetic to turning them off, especially for games that are supposed to be comparable between players, like the xOTMs. I personally think Slave Revolt is good because it strengthens Spiritual, but I realize everyone else' mileage varies.

Specific events can be pulled via XML, so it's even easier than going into python, although for modding purposes with an entire new game system I'm not sure which would be easier.

I've a philosophical/fear factor objection to editing XML files, though it's obviously a heck of a lot easier than writing a mod. If you want to set things one particular way semi-permanently, I'd say editing XML was probably the way to go, but it might be easier for people to learn if there's a nice UI. Plus special options like "turn off all the barbarian uprisings" (a one-click instead of 4 (?) edits).

As long as you make the changes to custom assets the worst you can do is have to delete them and go back to the base game (no reinstall). With find and replace it's not as hard as one might expect.

You might have to go back several turns for this; I'm an inveterate reloader (one of the reasons I abandon too many games, 'cause they "take too long" :hammer2:), and have had the same event happen again.

Is the info about which events are enabled available to the Python code? I need to learn how to write mods at some point, and selectively turning off unwanted events might be a fun hack. If nobody answer here I'll ask in the mods forum when I get a round tuit.

I like events but am sympathetic to turning them off, especially for games that are supposed to be comparable between players, like the xOTMs. I personally think Slave Revolt is good because it strengthens Spiritual, but I realize everyone else' mileage varies.

Note: Never change the original files. Create a mod and make the changes there or in CustomAssets

\Assets\XML\Events\CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml:
<EventTriggerInfo>
<Type>EVENTTRIGGER_THE_VEDIC_ARYANS</Type>
<WorldNewsTexts>
<Text>TXT_KEY_EVENTTRIGGER_THE_VEDIC_ARYANS</Text>
</WorldNewsTexts>
<TriggerTexts>
<TriggerText>
<Text>TXT_KEY_EVENTTRIGGER_THE_VEDIC_ARYANS</Text>
<Era>NONE</Era>
</TriggerText>
</TriggerTexts>
<EventArt>Art/EventImages/TheVedicAryans.dds</EventArt>
<bSinglePlayer>0</bSinglePlayer>
<iPercentGamesActive>0</iPercentGamesActive>
<iWeight>200</iWeight>

Gotta love them Vedic Aryans. On the upside, at least it only wastes 5 minutes max :lol:

...but IIRC it was somewhat annoying to watch barb warriors and even archers ignore a jungle archer and keep going right for my tiles.

I'm not familiar with barb AI, vs regular AI, but wouldn't one hope that a barbarian warrior (or even archer) would be smart enough to ignore the fortified archer on a high defense tile and look for easier pickings?

Maybe I simply played NetHack too much... but I don't mind harsh/borderline unfair events. Having a gamechanging barbarian uprising that takes out an AI or 2 can be refreshing because it completely alters the dynamics of the game. And being exempt from this happening to you while getting to enjoy the benefits at other times would be no fun at all.

If I want to play a game where I can be assured that no RNG will kick me in the nads I'll play chess. I think needing to balance preparing for the worst and setting up a decent normal game adds depth.
What I'm not too happy with is the implementation of some events... for example, tech prerequisites to be a legit barbarian target seems sill. Players who prepare to defend themselves shouldn't be punished for it.

You miss the gnome.
You miss the gnome.
The gnome zaps a hexagonal wand!
The death ray hits you!
Do you want your possessions identified? (Y/N)

Civ players have it easy. ;)

On the other hand, we also never find a blessed scroll of genocide in a goody hut... it all balances out :)

Obsolete, you should not care about people saying that turning events off is cheating. They can't beat deity, you can.

I play with them on because I think the idea itself is nice... makes some different stuff happens in your game. But I'm starting to get tired of that. The negative events seen to happen everygame (at least the slavery one, the one in which buildings are destroyed, that one in which you lose your forge if you don't pay a lot of money, and some others). And they seen to happen at the worst possible moments.

How is that analogy any better? Are you likening civ players to four year olds?


I think he's referring to the AIs who will research Archery and turn loose the aryans on you.

EDITED TO ADD:

Didn't see that I wasn't on the last page when I posted that.

I like the events because they bring some balance to the civics. Slavery is still a great civic, but it has more drawbacks. If I was in a position where I didn't plan on whipping anytime soon, but I didn't have any reason to go into another civic (either not available or my empire was not conducive to making the most of Caste System), I would just stay in Slavery anyway. Now, if I don't think I'll be whipping soon, I will get out of Slavery ASAP, because slave revolts suck. Likewise, I've started using Police State in wars more often since finding out it can trigger a really beneficial event - though I haven't got it yet, it's enough to push me into making the switch when the turns of anarchy before were usually enough to make me decide to stay in whatever pre-war civic I had and dealing with the war weariness.

Of course, I haven't had any of the events that wipes you out right at the beginning yet, but that part of the game is over so quick I don't think it would bother me that much. If I had a really great start that was ruined by that, I could always go back to an autosave or cheat.

You might have to go back several turns for this; I'm an inveterate reloader (one of the reasons I abandon too many games, 'cause they "take too long" :hammer2:), and have had the same event happen again.

Is the info about which events are enabled available to the Python code? I need to learn how to write mods at some point, and selectively turning off unwanted events might be a fun hack. If nobody answer here I'll ask in the mods forum when I get a round tuit.

I like events but am sympathetic to turning them off, especially for games that are supposed to be comparable between players, like the xOTMs. I personally think Slave Revolt is good because it strengthens Spiritual, but I realize everyone else' mileage varies.

You could set autosaves to trigger each round. Very helpful whenever you make a mistake and press the wrong button.

Along similar lines, there is another shot I want to disprove 2 common myths.

#1, that barbs can not pop from huts close to your capital
#2, that barbs can not pop INSIDE your cultural borders


I have read about a 7-tile rule, but I know this is false, because time and time again I have seen in deity games that barbs pop from huts much closer than this.

Here was a shot from a game, where you could not possibly put a hut any closer to a capital. Please note, I did NOT move my initial settler, the hut was located where my archer is now. It was exactly right beside my starting border.

Only due to good luck, did I avoid popping this hut during the beginning, because I had other things to go after on the other side of the capital.

Now that I have a chance to hit it, look what happens. We pop not only more than one barb next to the capital, but notice all barbs seem to pop out right INSIDE our culture. RIGHT NEXT to our capital (literally speaking). Now, imagine if this was some poor chap, who is trying to play optimally, and uses his starting warrior to pop that hut... He would have lost the capital on the next turn and it would have been literally impossible to prevent since there is no way you could build anything in time. Only the deities get a ton of defense units at the start and can live through this like it's just free EXP for them (which it is).

http://img38.imagefra.me/img/img38/2/10/26/obsolete/f_dd9x4jsm_53c9239.jpg

obs: That is not necesarilly true as the outcome of huts is changed by your actions. Popping that hut at a different time will most likely net another result regardless of if it could pop at the start of the game (which I'm not sure about). This can be seen in public games where people explore the map by different routes and get totally different results from the same hut.

obsolete.

Great post. You got me thinking so I did a bit of code digging. Your example above looked bizzare.

Here is the famous 8-tile clause, in CvPlayer::canReceiveGoody.
If any of the following return false then a hut cannot pop a barb.
if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).getBarbarianUnitClass() != NO_UNITCLASS)
{
if (GC.getGameINLINE().isOption(GAMEOPTION_NO_BARBARI ANS))
{
return false;
}

if (getNumCities() == 0)
{
return false;
}

if (getNumCities() == 1)
{
pCity = GC.getMapINLINE().findCity(pPlot->getX_INLINE(), pPlot->getY_INLINE(), NO_PLAYER, getTeam());

if (pCity != NULL)
{
if (plotDistance(pPlot->getX_INLINE(), pPlot->getY_INLINE(), pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE()) <= (8 - getNumCities()))
{
return false;
}
}
}
}

If it's not already clear, the check for 8 tiles from a city only happens if you only have one city.

I'm not sure why they say "<= (8 - getNumCities())" because getNumCities() is always going to be 1 inside there isn't it? So this would mean plot distance only needs to be less than or equal to 7.

The reason your example is bizzare is now obvious. Very rarely would anyone have a hut just outside the border of their capital, leave it alone while settling a second city, AND not have an AI take it in the meantime.

I should add that the above 3 conditions are the only things that can prevent a barb from popping from a hut. This confirms that "barbs cannot pop inside borders" is a myth (though to be honest I've never heard this myth by anyone before obsolete mentioned it... hmmm) but it's fairly reasonable. Myth #1 just needs to have an added clause attached to it (while number of cities = 1) and it's fact - not myth.

I just don't know... some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on so I don't feel guilty, but then you run into un-winnable situations like this.

Its not cheating to disable them, but if you play with them on, you get got by the Vedics once in a while - restart.

More subtly, what about when the Vedics screw an AI, giving you, or a neighbouring AI, an advantage - that would probably not be to most peoples tastes. We could do with some more data to see if this is a big problem, - is there a "see the whole world cheat" besides worldbuilder ??

I have followed barbs into AI empires before now, always an easy first strike, and my best event was the ""Best Defence" - I built a load of castles and got +3 dip with all AI's, I was going for emperor cultural win (and got it) but after that event it should really have beeen downgraded to Noble :D

And how about the game deciding that things are too peaceful and make you declare war out of the blue? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=339932) :p

This alone makes me wonder if I'll ever play again with events and no espionage :(

Very rarely would anyone have a hut just outside the border of their capital, leave it alone while settling a second city, AND not have an AI take it in the meantime.

Well, I had not settled any second city yet at that time. I STILL only had ONE city.

Sorry, obsolete , but your screenie says otherwise.

Well, I had not settled any second city yet at that time. I STILL only had ONE city.

I agree with rolo. I can see it. Regardless of whether you captured it or settled it, it still counts.

EDIT... UNLESS you popped that hut then settled that city on the same turn and in that order... I doubt that though.

My bad, I just remembered now after looking that yes that other one had just been rushed over there on the hill.

I don't think I've seen this mentioned here before, if a city gets captured thanks to one of those barb events, nearby barb cities will send troops towards captured cities and don't seem to engage troops on the way there. So, not only might you be able to quickly capture a city, there might be a very easy barb city to grab as well.

more code about the BAD goody huts
from canReceiveGoody


if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).isBad())
{
if ((pUnit == NULL) || pUnit->isNoBadGoodies())
{
return false;
}
}


That being said: culture borders will never pop a bad hut. The check is performed Before the ones listed above by PoM
I mean that's not exactly true:


I should add that the above 3 conditions are the only things that can prevent a barb from popping from a hut. This confirms that "barbs cannot pop inside borders" is a myth (though to be honest I've never heard this myth by anyone before obsolete mentioned it... hmmm) but it's fairly reasonable. Myth #1 just needs to have an added clause attached to it (while number of cities = 1) and it's fact - not myth.

I don't like this event...but not for the same reasons as Obsolete. I don't like it because it makes the game to easy. sometimes those vedics kill an AI civ. As for them killing me...whatever, I'm not that annoyed at having to restard 1 game in 50 due to bad luck.

always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc

I don't like this event...but not for the same reasons as Obsolete. I don't like it because it makes the game to easy. sometimes those vedics kill an AI civ. As for them killing me...whatever, I'm not that annoyed at having to restard 1 game in 50 due to bad luck.

Yeah. You say that. But I've seen a player lose a LHC game because the VA killed someone else, and another AI got very very huge.

always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc

That would be a positive result of events. I think volcanos are random though aren't they? Or do they keep triggering on a particular mountain?

more code about the BAD goody huts
from canReceiveGoody


if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).isBad())
{
if ((pUnit == NULL) || pUnit->isNoBadGoodies())
{
return false;
}
}


That being said: culture borders will never pop a bad hut. The check is performed Before the ones listed above by PoM
I mean that's not exactly true:

Good point. I forgot about that possibility. However, I think most people already know culture borders don't pop bad huts.

I'm learning a lot of stuff from this thread. :)

I got this in a 18player pitboss game. Raging barbarians. On about turn 5 I jump on a hut with my warrior. 7 barbs pop out. My warrior is dead of course. 2 turns later 5 of them stroll into my capital. I barely have my first build completed, which is another warrior at least.

Not that it mattered. Game over in less than 15 turns.

@Lemon Merchant
That's not a real life, far from. In RL one has girls to cope with, which is enough I believe.
Oh, heck, we're not so bad. You just have to know how to keep a girl distracted -- Hey! What's that? Oooh! A shiny thing! Neat! This will look just wonderful with my new... uh...

Sorry. :blush:

Like I was saying, a distracted girl is a happy girl. I'm so good at deflection, my GF doesn't even know that I'm in the room half of the time. I can play Civ with impunity! :lol:

"always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc "

alot of weak players apparently

hunting , archery- not that hard.

i suppose it is hard for the narrow minded that skip things and use a certain path and build order ect in order to proclaim a manipulated victory.

Trolling - warned

It's also hard to understand just what the heck you are talking about.

Oh, heck, we're not so bad.
Yeah, yeah... you aint so bad, yet not easy to get along w/...

Like I was saying, a distracted girl is a happy girl. I'm so good at deflection, my GF doesn't even know that I'm in the room half of the time. I can play Civ with impunity! :lol:
See, w/ guys even easier: make food, <snip>, let him watch sport, drink w/ friends... you'll never hear a complain.

Inappropriate Content - warned

I've always wondered what the deal was with the random number of barbs spawns from hostile villagers. Sometimes it's 1, sometimes it's like 7. What's going on here? And is not 7 a little excessive in any circumstance? That's like a mini Vedic invasion event.

>>"Fred Flinstone & his gang of stone-age clubmen have risen up to plunder the riches of civilization."
>>>>"We are likely to take the brunt of the assault."

I've always wondered what the deal was with the random number of barbs spawns from hostile villagers. Sometimes it's 1, sometimes it's like 7. What's going on here? And is not 7 a little excessive in any circumstance? That's like a mini Vedic invasion event.

>>"Fred Flinstone & his gang of stone-age clubmen have risen up to plunder the riches of civilization."
>>>>"We are likely to take the brunt of the assault."

I think there's an equal random chance for each valid tile around the hut. I think a hut with 8 empty tiles around it can theoretically spawn 8 of them. Assuming the probability p per tile is less than 0.5 (just a guess) it would be exceptionally unlucky to get 8 of them even when it was possible (work out the binomial probability ;)). The average is probably about 3.

I think there's an equal random chance for each valid tile around the hut. I think a hut with 8 empty tiles around it can theoretically spawn 8 of them. Assuming the probability p per tile is less than 0.5 (just a guess) it would be exceptionally unlucky to get 8 of them even when it was possible (work out the binomial probability ;)). The average is probably about 3.

AFAIK there are 2 barbaian result on hut. The lesser one giving 1-3 and the greater giving... Up to 8.

man, so many post about game over.. maby we could all just play a aliens civ mod from the movie.
when we we get conquored by them a big screen comes up saying...GAME OVER MAN

we are all loser against Mr.Death, but mostly we don't kill ourself after knowing that.

I've had a stack of four HORSE ARCHERS spawn on me at around 3000 BC or so (NOT kidding here). I've even made a thread back then because it was so ridiculous; as I understand that has been nerfed with the latest patch.

The Vedic Aryans are still very annoying, unless they kill an AI (that has happened to me as well), when they are simply unbalancing. Not long ago they snatched my neighbours capital, killing that civilization; of course I took that city a few turns later. Of course that probably won't happen on high difficulties (I play Monarch) due to better initial AI defenses.

Anyway, some of the positive random events are way out of line as well, e.g. the free shock promotion for Axemen -- that's just ridiculous.

I usually turn off all random events, it just makes no sense to me playing with them.

I sort of can't help but laugh when one of these barb hordes travel half way around the world and through 2 AI territories even though the event was never announced on the screen.

I've had a stack of four HORSE ARCHERS spawn on me at around 3000 BC or so (NOT kidding here). I've even made a thread back then because it was so ridiculous; as I understand that has been nerfed with the latest patch.

AFAIK the last patch didn't do anything to them. The same trigger requirements apply - some tech requirements and the city closest to the spawning barbs needs to be able to build the counterunit (Spears for the Huns). If that someone is able to build Spears there's a chance that you are able to build some kind of unit better than Warriors as well so generally they're not as bad as Vedics (which can always trigger when you only have Warriors on Monarch+ barring some bizarre Archery beeline).

They are annoying if you don't get the event announcement due to not having met the triggering Civ yet, though, as dirtyparrot noted.

The Vedic Aryans are still very annoying, unless they kill an AI (that has happened to me as well), when they are simply unbalancing. Not long ago they snatched my neighbours capital, killing that civilization; of course I took that city a few turns later. Of course that probably won't happen on high difficulties (I play Monarch) due to better initial AI defenses.

Some posters have had the Vedic Aryans kill a rival AI to their detriment, as another AI was able to rush into that area and settle it (and become mega powerful as a result). :sad:

(which can always trigger when you only have Warriors on Monarch+ barring some bizarre Archery beeline).

ARCHERY BEELINE ARE THE SUPERIOR KNOW IT KNOW IT WELL :mwaha:

I just don't know... some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on so I don't feel guilty, but then you run into un-winnable situations like this.

I too feel the same way so I keep events on. And I like them, mostly. Even annoying slave revolt is a nice one, adds some flavor, some little downside to otherwise perfect slavery. But, I do not hesitate to load after some particularly stupid events, like Aryans or even Hurricane. You have to draw a line somehwere. In cases like this I dont feel like reloading is cheating. Its only a way to deal with bs from Firaxis side.

That said I consider turning them off completely, cuz current way is a bit of cheating in some sense, because I do not load when said events strike AI :)

What if the AI reloaded when something went poorly for it LOL

ctd, wtf!?

What if the AI reloaded when something went poorly for it LOL

ctd, wtf!?

You're being kind. Imagine the WB being in the hands of the AI. Or if the AI mysteriously quit in frustration. Screw this being a vassal garbage, I have better things to do...

It would be pretty rare wouldn't it? I mean, an AI would need to pop enough barb warriors they they kill his unit and have enough left over to beeline your city and capture it. At high levels the AI unit is probably an archer usually, right?

If the AI is using scouts he can't pop those warriors anyway.

I once lost a Marathon game before turn 15 due to an AI popping a hut just outside my borders. I'd moved my warrior in the opposite direction (chasing another hut) and figured that I'd get the hut when my borders popped at turn 15. Nope. I popped the other hut for a map that showed an AI's border about 10 tiles from mine. A couple of turns later I get a pop-up "London has been captured by the Barbarian State". I stared at my screen in shock and disbelief. It was a major WTF? moment until I figured out what must have happened. (the AI popped the hut resulting in a warrior right outside my undefended capital)

AFAIK, I hold the world's record for "fastest loss at Civ 4". :smug:


I still play with events and huts on, and I take the bad with the good. It all evens out in the long run.

It is very questionable however what the long run has to do with anything. I want my individual games to not be broken by events even though I know that someday the events will be favorable to me.

I normally play with events off, but I figured I'd give them another try yesterday. Short story: Vedic Aryans in 2850 BC validate my original opinion. Random events are off again.

I once lost a Marathon game before turn 15 due to an AI popping a hut just outside my borders. I'd moved my warrior in the opposite direction (chasing another hut) and figured that I'd get the hut when my borders popped at turn 15. Nope. I popped the other hut for a map that showed an AI's border about 10 tiles from mine. A couple of turns later I get a pop-up "London has been captured by the Barbarian State". I stared at my screen in shock and disbelief. It was a major WTF? moment until I figured out what must have happened. (the AI popped the hut resulting in a warrior right outside my undefended capital)

AFAIK, I hold the world's record for "fastest loss at Civ 4". :smug:


I still play with events and huts on, and I take the bad with the good. It all evens out in the long run.

Probably not. When I started my first "Always War" game, I happily selected worker first sent my warrior out to explore. I don't believe I ever saw turn 10...

All seems really negative - 'barbs ate my city' - kind of stories here!

I've had silly gamebreakingly good luck with events before as well.

In one game as the ottomans, beelined to Gunpowder, captured pyramids off a neighbour. Tried out early Police State out of curiousity. Got an event adding March to all current and future gunpowder units - which is just silly.

By far and away the silliest was having 3 of these uprising events on my borders in 1 game - each with large stacks of strong units for the time. After I'd built the Great Wall... was going to muck around trying an espionage economy. I got several good cities off my neighbours lands without a DoW just following behind the barbs.

On the huts, they can really swing things - super early techs are potentially messy.

I do prefer them and the huts switched off for competitive games, but it's not *that* a big deal.

Hi

I've lost a few games to events or at least just said phooey and started and quit in disgust (that losing the forge WHILE Im not ONLY building Collosus but have just chopped the last tree to get to withing 5 turns completion grrrr. Someone once said that if you rebuild it you start at point wehre you left off b4 losing the forge but still in the bc's the forge itself can be a mini wonder hammerwise so it still a pain and I just say heck with this game just on principle) and the archer thing has messed me up sometimes. Not JUST from killing me I remember a game where Izzy founds two religons in her cap gets killed by barbs (and you know that when they kill a city like that they just move on and leave the city empty and unguarded) so Ghengis gets a free 2nd capitol with two religions in it and by time I meet him he has like forty cities funded by the shrines that ended up there.

I'm not particularly fond of Vocalnoes that have eaten as many as FOUR towns I spent all those turns growing. Or getting a slave revolt at bad times (I dont mind the loss of turn so much but having my city drop from 4 to 3 JUST as I am getting ready to 2 pop whip something can really fry my cheese) But that said I still leave them and the huts on. They can be entertaining in their lameness like "Yay pluss 1 commerce on a plain desert tile gee thanks!" Or handy (that plus 2 hammer to your iron mine can be spiffy if it happens in bc's :) and who DOESNT pray for that herb event that can give plus 2 free health to your civ to happen EVERY game? ) or just downright awesome (try playing mixed leaders game with rome led by alex and get events where all melee get cover, then sword quest where all swords get cityraider 1 so you get combat1,cover,cityraider1,cityraider2 out of all cities with a barracks :D )so all and all I think they do add more fun than they take away. And not only are the gamebreakingly bad events rare I would say 99% of those rare times happen at points so early in the game you really dont have TOO much time invested.

But I play on the lower levels still --I can see how on the very high difficulties there where diplomacy can be MUCH more important how an event that causes sudden war or even just drops a civ from friendly to pleased at a bad time can totally mess things up through NO fault of your own). ANd I admit I zapped the global warming event just cuz it is for me the ONE event that happens WAAY too often and occurs at point where I HAVE spent LOTS of time in the game to just be too fun killing that I would rather not have it. (I mean ok kill me with barbies or whatever but after I have spent HUNDREDS of turns getting my cities and land all pretty how DARE the game mess it up :P)

Another reason I keep events on is cuz I do LOVE the quests. It's fun chasing them and losing the events means losing the quests and going into the xml event by event JUST to eliminate the annoying ones is waaaay to much work hehe.

As for goody huts I have had them mess me up too but that is even rarer than having an event mess things up for me (but again I can see how it could be level dependent Ghengis popping HBR from a hut around 3500 bc is probably a LOT harder to deal with on say emperor than on noble hehe). And also a civ game without goodyhuts just WOULDNT be a civ game they are like a civ tradition :). Another little reason I dont ever turn off huts is just cuz it seems like doing so nerfs all those civs that start with scouts since one of the WHOLE point of that being a good thing is cuz it means more and better hut popping chances. So I just leave em on and take the good with bad cuz I think the good does outweigh the bad.

Oh one more thing. I was reading how ppl have said something about it being impossible of bars spwning from a hut in your bfc or of a hut with in 8 squares of your cap as long as that is your only city from being bad...is that more related to your starting spawn location as opposed to your starting city location? Just asking cuz the one time a goodyhut TOTALLY wrecked my game was a PYL game. My starting location was meh but there was a TON of nice floodplains further inland along with goldmines so I moved my settler way up there. Far enugg where it took like 3 moves for the settler but that yummy start seemed worth all those moves. My initial warrior goes off exploring and Im going worker first in my build. When my border pop happens it shows RIGHT outside a goody hut. My warrior is scouting and NOWHERE near it so another ai pops it first. And barbies spawn and they spawn in my BFC and game over.

Kaytie

Another reason I keep events on is cuz I do LOVE the quests. It's fun chasing them and losing the events means losing the quests and going into the xml event by event JUST to eliminate the annoying ones is waaaay to much work hehe.
Speaking of digging around in the xml files, I've modified the 'slave revolt' event in mine. In addition to Slavery civic, it now requires the city in question to have a Colloseum built, and instead of missed turns/reduced population/disorder, it simply spawns Spartacus and his gladiator army in close vicinity. :)