Hello, dear fanatics.
There is a strategy that I found especially effective, so I'd like to share and discuss it.
The strategy is intended to work on speeds of Epic and slower, and needs a map with a distance to the nearest AI of about 10 tiles (that's usual for normal games). I've only tried it a few times as Russia, but hopefully, it works for other nations as well. It may require some saving and loading on your part, though, and it will fail if the enemy's city is on a hill.
- scout the enemy
- research archery (1+9 turns)
- train a warrior
You should be able to start training an archer after you finish the warrior. Hopefully, the enemy is training settlers or workers and our army outnumbers their. Usually they have 2 warriors. Should their warriors wander outside the city, it's even easier. Declare war when the archer reaches their border.
The key to winning the siege is to have the archer kill the newer units that are not fortified yet. The fortified warrior has 3.40 str, so we damage it, kill the next unit, promote our archer and attack again. I hope this has been clear enough.
We gain enough to lead for the entire game: city, land, sometimes - workers.

This will not work at Monarch or higher levels as the AI starts with archery and archers.

Thank you, I didn't know that. How do I win the game on Monarch then? Second capital is what made me lead in score. I feel I won't have any advantage then.

Leading in score is not needed to win the game. There are many excellent articles written to help as well as walkthrough games. My best suggestion is to follow play through a few sample games. There is a thread at the head of this forum with sample games. And ask questions, there are always people willing to answer, you just need some more specific questions.

And welcome to the forums!

On Monarch+ the only rushes that seem to work are either Immortals (Persia only), or Axes. Both are of course very circumstantial, I find that even if I need to field a second city for copper, the rush won't work same with horses for Persia of course. Usually though it's a good idea to REX your opponents and dominate them in land+production, then steal the lead later on.

I admire your attitude! I certainly didn't earn it. I'll LURK MOAR!

On Monarch+ the only rushes that seem to work are either Immortals (Persia only), or Axes. Both are of course very circumstantial, I find that even if I need to field a second city for copper, the rush won't work same with horses for Persia of course. Usually though it's a good idea to REX your opponents and dominate them in land+production, then steal the lead later on.
Monarch+ War Chariot, regular chariot, horse archer, archer, and sword "rushes" are all very possible as well. I've never had a problem with any type of chariot rush as long as horses were in immediate (2nd city) vicinity. Attacko's Ice Archer Rush thread shows that even on high levels, an all out archer rush is possible. I prefer resource-based unit rushes as they are usually successful with lower :hammers: investment, but successful nonetheless.

On Monarch+ the only rushes that seem to work are either Immortals (Persia only), or Axes. Both are of course very circumstantial, I find that even if I need to field a second city for copper, the rush won't work same with horses for Persia of course. Usually though it's a good idea to REX your opponents and dominate them in land+production, then steal the lead later on.

If skillfully executed under the right circumstances, you can rush with anything. Yes, even with Warriors on Monarch+.

Regular chariots are among the best rush units btw, on par with Axes in some opinions.

I'm very new to this game. I managed to win a game on Noble with a tank rush >_> my first game I lost because I dropped too many nukes (11).

The speed of chariots makes up for the (possible) need to research "the wheel" along with AH. Although, some civs (like Egypt) start with Wheel AND Agriculture (meaning 1 tech from War Char). This also goes for Wheel AND Hunting starts. Usually, the chariot rush is more attractive for civs that start with wheel/hunting/agri or combo thereof and NOT mining.

If a civ starts with Mining, I'll usually try for Copper/Axe rush since axes defend much better than chariots (no defense bonus, 4 str, no fortify bonus) and if you can build axe, you can build spearmen which are flawless against chariots (axe counter) and great against all mounted up until knights (and even then they stand decent ground when fortified on a hill).

Below Monarch, if you find an AI early, you should be able to crank out 5 Warriors and take out the capital (barring annoyances like Protective AIs on a hill).

Monarch (& presumably above), a Quecha rush can work as well.

Trouble is - you have to commit pretty early to the rush. If you build 5 Warriors and the rush fails (or you abort due to 40% defense on a hill), you've sacrificed early expansion for nothing.

my first game I lost because I dropped too many nukes (11).

But didn't it feel great though?

I've lost games because the AI dropped too many nukes.

I reccomend you look in the strategy articles board for Snaaty's strategy guide for normal maps and speeds, or something like that. That one is excellent.

@blitzkrieg - Seeing you around after a long while ;)

I took a long break. Did a lot of alt research and soul searching. Found a new job. Working out the last weeks at my old job. Probably will only be around sparingly now.

Sometimes (this certainly doesn't apply to most on the forums) I get bored with Civ. This usually happens after I've mastered 2 levels and don't really feel like dealing with learning a new level (in this case Emperor). After having beaten Monarch with 10 different leaders, I became bored. Switched over to some RPGs on my 360 and now I'm back in it. The break actually did me well since my first Monarch game (last night) finished with an AP win in 1100 and a nice +100,000 score.

>>and if you can build axe, you can build spearmen which are flawless against chariots (axe counter)

Well, need to research hunting for spears :D... which I usually prefer to skip.

Needs to be gauged by the map. If my opponent has horses in his borders, you bet Hunting is worth the tech sidetrack. It's mad cheap anyway.

but you can't build the cheap happiness unit anymore

??? Measure cost / benefit. Do I want a second capital and plenty of expandable land or do I want a bunch of warriors that I will end up deleting later on due to unit costs? If the enemy has horses and therefore chariots, you will not be able to keep a captured city with axemen as they are eaten for breakfast by chariots.

If no chariots or no horses, then no need for spears and you can keep your warriors.

Cost/benefit analysis.

Axe vs Chariot isn't that bad. On the right terrain Chariots still suck against them and you don't need to defend a city against Chariots. Just keep it empty and park a guy or two next to it in a forest, and sweep any chariots that take it back. Sometimes it's even preferable for AIs to build Chariots instead of Archers with you having pure Axe.

Having to tech Hunting without camp resources does indeed suck.

I just have to disagree. Even on Monarch (mediocre difficulty), the AI builds a fair amount of chariots once horses are hooked up.

Chariot vs. hill axeman
Chariot 4 + 100% vs axeman -25% (axeman on hill) + 10% combat 1 = 7.4
Axeman 5 + 10% combat 1 = 5.5

Seems pretty imbalanced.

Chariot vs. hill/forest axeman outside city
Chariot 4 + 100% vs axeman -75% (axeman on hill) + 10% combat 1 = 5.4
Axeman 5 + 10% combat 1 = 5.5

This is a little better. But consider the fact that Monarch+ AI starts with archers/archery. Therefore, if you leave the city undefended, usually you'll have to deal with 1 archer 1 chariot retaking the city and a possible chariot attacking your hill/forest fortified axeman. Now you have to expend even more axes to capture the city.

All this to keep producing warriors that will get deleted in the future? Really? Not worth it to me. 5 turn Hunting is fine IMO. Everyone has their own style, though. And I'm certainly not a high-level player.

I just have to disagree. Even on Monarch (mediocre difficulty), the AI builds a fair amount of chariots once horses are hooked up.

<snip>

Your combat calculations are false btw due to the way all attacker bonuses except Combat are subtracted from the defender. In reality it's even a bit more favorable towards the Chariot.

It's pointless to go over a dozen hypothetical scenarios moving an Archer here or attacking an Axeman there. Bottom line is that the AI will not "mass" chariots and since it's dumb as a rock with regards to battle tactics situational benefits like Chariot vs Axe is pretty easy to work around (for example, the chariot will not attack the dude next to the empty city, he will very often capture the city instead and defend it if it's alone). Horse is also easy to pillage and once the Chariots are whittled down it's easy pickings (no Chariot will get more than 1 Axe outside a city due to no terrain bonuses, unlike frex Axe vs Impi or Spear vs Keshik).

When rushing, every beaker counts double since the extra maintenance payload can seriously hamper the crawl to Pottery/Writing/(Alpha/Aes). Difficulty level is also a factor here, the lower free unit cap puts the hurt on quite early so you will want the minimum of sucky attack units possible in your army anyway.

In a pinch, you could defend the city with a warrior or two. A non combat axe (or damaged warrior) will have 2.5 strength versus a chariot, a warrior will have 2*1.25=2.5 strength. So if your warrior has an additional bonus, it will be sure to defend (and probably die). Second, chariots don't get a bonus defending against axes.

Though I would say when rushing, beakers are worth less than a really aggressive REX (less early city maintenance, unit maintenance kicks in after you've teched your worker techs and pottery, and you're compensated by pillage gold), if you're building a stack of 8+ units you'll definitely have hunting by then and can add a spearman.

And finally, even if you're chariot rushing you still need bronze working to chop. And I still find it ironic how people think chariot rushes are very strong, yet prefer axes to a very fast impi/holkan rushes.

EDIT:: UR right. I misunderestimated the chariot ;)

Also, ur right about beakers in the early game. However, barring the camp resource (which would make Hunting a no-brainer), I still say beakers aren't wasted in going for hunting in this kind of scenario. I've lost countless axemen to AI chariot counter attacks when I didn't have AH yet and didn't know they had horses.

I prefer to play it safe. Given that I play Monarch level, I'm able to allow for a little more leeway with the Hunting option.
And finally, even if you're chariot rushing you still need bronze working to chop. And I still find it ironic how people think chariot rushes are very strong, yet prefer axes to a very fast impi/holkan rushes.
Nah.. I'm definitely not waiting until researching BW (pretty expensive that early on) and chopping to send out my chariots. If I'm rushing, it's for a reason (AI too close/Shaka/Monty/Toku) and I'm not going to tech 2 expensive techs (namely AH and BW) plus whatever prereqs I"m missing (wheel or Agri/hunting or mining). That's not really a Chariot rush anymore. Raw build and chop/whip the final 2. Of course, if I have to settle for the horse resource, BW will be in by the time it's hooked up anyway. AI doesn't build many spears (rarely see more than 2 or 3) so chariot rush is solid.

I can't imagine immortal level chariot rush w/o bronze working. The AI will have min. 3 archers in the capital. Even if timed well, just when it expands it's still unbelievable to pull it off.

I use spears on axe rushes but it's far from always. Also I rarely rush w/o stealing a worker 1st which helps more than having spears, anyways.

I can't imagine immortal level chariot rush w/o bronze working. The AI will have min. 3 archers in the capital. Even if timed well, just when it expands it's still unbelievable to pull it off.

I use spears on axe rushes but it's far from always. Also I rarely rush w/o stealing a worker 1st which helps more than having spears, anyways.

Well, if you have early access to horses (IE in the capital BFC, sometimes raw building chariots while researching BW and then finishing off your preparations with a chop/whip is enough to grab the enemy capital and destroy one of their expansion cities. A decent capital can push out 4-5 chariots while researching BW. Chop/whip to get 6-7 and off you go. Protective and hill enemy capitals are an exception. But as everything in this game, you shouldn't commit to something unless you have most of the variables discovered and figured in.

Also, as commented above, I usually discuss Monarch level (which, I believe was the average in a poll taken earlier this year). I don't think I'd bother moving past Emperor as I play a little too relaxed to get a handle on Imm+. I'm too buzzed usually to be bothered with too many calculations

You need at least 10 chariots vs 4 archers, and that's still on the low side. 3 to 1 is reliable, so 6-7 should beat 2 archers.

I can't imagine immortal level chariot rush w/o bronze working. The AI will have min. 3 archers in the capital. Even if timed well, just when it expands it's still unbelievable to pull it off.

I use spears on axe rushes but it's far from always. Also I rarely rush w/o stealing a worker 1st which helps more than having spears, anyways.

It is quite doable a start with plains cows/hill sheep/plains phants/horses/forested plains hills in the BFC can let you blitz and smack an AI cap on turn 0 of the war. AIs often have 2 archers in their cap if you catch them at the right moment (a conveniently placed warrior on a hill can do wonders). Egypt with horses in the BFC can pull off an immort 4 chariot rush without BW.

On noble, I won conquest w/ warrior rush on standard (either terra or pangea map.) No tech need, just set on making money on turn 1. Build tons of warriors and raze most cities. If encounter archers behind walls, expect 10 warrior for 1 archer.

Immortal is where I started having more trouble with early attacks. There's a number of reasons for this, at emperor, rushing a PRO leader is doable, at imm it's hard. Same goes for capitals on hills, capitals with higher culture (either through religion on CRE), and AI starting with a strategic resource in their capital's BFC.

You need at least 10 chariots vs 4 archers, and that's still on the low side. 3 to 1 is reliable, so 6-7 should beat 2 archers.
I've never seen 4 archers in 1 city when I rush. Again, I'm a monarch player, but I was under the impression that the AI usually prioritizes fast expansion. On my 2 immortal tries, I was able to rush Joao with 6 chariots, capture capital, and then grabbed 1 satellite city before reinforcements came. 3 is the MOST I've ever seen guarding the capital during this early AI expansion phase as they send out archer guards for their fast produced settlers and often utilize one of their free starting archers to explore.

"On Monarch+ the only rushes that seem to work are either Immortals (Persia only), or Axes"

there are a couple walkthroughs of an archer rush on monarch - standard- fractal
all conditions, random all else

Been done on emperor as well.

You can pull it off- but not with just one- unless it is multiplayer and you have a ship- make alot of kills with archers this way.

Seems the Incas are well suited for early rushes on Monarch, with +100% vs Archers on Quechua. Unless the leader is protective or on a hill or into building an army or outproducing you, this rush is very possible.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3694/civ4screenshot0002x.jpg

On monarch/marathon one can take the continent w/ Inca's mighty warriors. Everybody knows AI totally blows vs them.

It may require some saving and loading on your part, though, and it will fail...

God damn, that's the best part of this strategy!

Thanks a LOT! I'm going to use this save & loading part to take my game up to the next level. Hope to see this thread placed into the strategy academy :P

:lol::lol::lol:

Your being a little rude arent you Obs ;)

Well, ethics back in my day went along the lines of frowning upon cheating...

new generation

in the arts "assimilation" became the term for copying someone else's work

on here "reloading" is ok because "you learn" from it. lol

Well definitely not the type of save and reloading that the OP has suggested :D! The only thing you will learn from that is maybe the concept of "Probability" ;)

The guy has 5 posts, throw the man a freakin bone.

By the time you make your first post, you know reloading = the fake.

This is what makes deity/immortal play so unforgiving..... and truly legit.

The only thing you will learn from that is maybe the concept of "Probability" ;)

Chances are you might also learn the concept of "seed" in pseudorandom number generators :goodjob:

i think quechas are way too powerful. 6 quechas are all that is needed to wipe out a civ in immortal-diety(whether protective or hills)....just cover the capital from all sides so as to have complete view of capital. ..as soon as the settler with its cover comes out of borders...BAM! DOW.::king:

even better -scout with your settler to find the ai capital,,settle near it,do the same..

By the time you make your first post, you know reloading = the fake. This is what makes deity/immortal play so unforgiving..... and truly legit.
... and I might take the game this seriously if it meant my boss offered a raise or my wife offered extra "goodies" daily.

By the time you make your first post, you know reloading = the fake.

This is what makes deity/immortal play so unforgiving..... and truly legit.

Tell me how this comment helps a NEW player in any way? Who cares about deity/immortal when they are just beginning anyways?
I kind of agree with my boy blitzkrieg here, ha. :)