I was just feeling like i was ready for a bit of punishment so i started a game on Emperor just to see how it feels with the following settings,

Emperor / Normal / Continents -- Lincoln / America

Now suprisingly, i actually seem to be doing quite decently (or thats what i think), i'm actually thinking i could play out this game and have a decent chance here ...
It's around 500 BC, i have 4 cities, bagged the Henge, tried for the mids and missed by a long shot but got lots of fail gold which is turbo charging my research right now, my only worry is of getting boxed in by my creative egyptian neighbour, (i can still get up to 6 cities) oh and also quite comfortable fended off more barbs than i have seen ever ... :D

So would anyone care to have a look at my save and tell me if i actually am doing decently? anything i can do better?

Overall 4 cities by 425bc isnt great but land isnt either.

I assume you went for Stone henge for the +1 happiness with your trait?

4 workers for 4 cities is too few. I would of chopped 90% of the forest around Washington by now. perhaps lack of workers is the reason why you have not.

You have axemen defending all your cities with the Egyptians as neighbour with a str 5 war chariot. Ackkk. Hopefully they wont attack.

Overall the land is really poor and this has probably slowed down the AI. I would of rushed the Egptians early on. You could probably whip a few axes and grab the holy city.

Start i would of beelined AH or BW. Maybe not msyt. but Sh was probably your reason.

Overall you have lots of irrigated land but very few cottages. Where is your science going to come from? Specialist economy or cottage.

It would be helpful if you had scouted out more land.

Religion wise Hammy wont like fact you are using another religion if you take out the Egptians. I think you still have a lot of options but what is your purpose right now? You need to rush before LBow arrive.

Scoooouuuuuuuut :lol: Like playing blindfolded ;) Need to know where Hammu is, how urgent it is to bag that barb city in southern jungle, etc etc...

I'd cottage that capital in anticipation of Bureu since you need to pay the bills somehow and there's tons of juicy riverside there. Plus some choppage-boosted REX to get all the land you can, fast. All those forests in capital, I can't fathom how they aren't chopped already ;) You have more restraint than me... Of course you can leave a couple for TGL if you want.

You can do the Alpha trade with Hammu even though he's a worst enemy. Rambo is a jovial neighbor especially with your religion. He's not creative btw though the dozens of wonders he does sure makes it feel like that sometimes.

Oh and make that 1 road tile to connect yourself to Rambo. You're throwing money in the trash every turn.

Let's see if I can add to what was said...

Don't try too much for a Wonder when you don't have the resource, those hammers are usually better put elsewhere. In this mindset, unless you find marble, you may skip TGL, you're Phi so getting a few GS won't be a problem for Academy+bulb Edu.

Ramesses is Pleased, you are safe with even 1 warrior per city.
You can beg meditation from Ramesses, this will start you on the Monarchy path.
Finish Aesthetics for trade fodder and then go for Priesthood>Currency. If you can get your hands on OR it could be useful.

You'll want to connect your network to Ramesses... that should net you about 3~4 extra commerce right away.

Washington - farm over silk. It's 1 extra commerce per turn. You've got 4 units here. Send 3 on scouting
New York - working a grassland forest while you have a farmed grass and mined hill. Make a worker instead
Boston - needs a granary
Philadelphia - hook it up and the iron.

Plan: make swords to take out the barb city and any other you see in the vicinity.
More workers... like 4 more
You have room for 3 ok cities around you :
-1 east of deer (deer, horses,corn)
-1 south of fish (fish,iron, river grassland)
-1 south west of deer (deer,wine) but this one isn't great really.

I think you have enough room for a peaceful approach until rifles/canons.

I'd check it but I'm still playing 3.17, if someone could put it up as a WB save I'd be happy to help.

Im going to propose a different approach, not that the others aren't fantastic or whatnot! Being lincoln and beside Rams I'd have went for CoL before the GL bee-line, let him build a few wonders and started building swordsmen, bulbing math and then shooting for construction, grabbing yourself some of his cities since he's usually fairly weak. Granted he's at pleased but since you've neglected scouting a bit :P i'll assume Hammy is on the other side of Rams, and you'd have to go through him anyway to war. But then again i usually think of PHI leaders to become a SE style of play and try to snag a shrine before renaissance, which Rams has aswell :D. Washington has a ton of grassland potential for caste to work wonders, and potentially the barb city, depending on resources. Either way theres a city spot west of Washington you might consider focusing on within the next 10 turns before Rams snags it, up to you. Everything else seems to be covered! Goodluck :)

I'll add a quick 2c without seeing the save, Kill Rams. now. He will aim for a culture victory, and unless you are confident you can blitz him later on it's best to cripple him now ;)

I'll add a quick 2c without seeing the save, Kill Rams. now. He will aim for a culture victory, and unless you are confident you can blitz him later on it's best to cripple him now ;)

Most Ai culural victories tend to come late 1950-2000ad from my experience. I dont think that will be a worry for now. If you capture and destroy one legendary city you can stop the win anyway but that is years off.

Thanks guys,

Here's a bit more info on what i was thinking / resons behind what i was doing,

1) I popped Mysticm from a hut (emperor sure is easy :)), right off the bat so i thought i should go for the Henge since i was Charismatic as well.

2) My initial techs were Hunting / AH / Wheel / Mining / Archery / BW i think i dont remember recording the info and i know i went writing before pottery to get those scientists up,

3) So far popped a GS and a GP in the capital, burned the GS on Mathematics, settled the GP in the capital.

4) I am trying more a specialist heavy economy hence the farms and the libraries, i guess i should cottage some of the capital though.

5) I was saving a lot of the forests in the capital for the Mids :blush:, and now i thought i will hold them for another wonder (you know chop only the tiles i need to work) ... Bad idea?

6) I did'nt expect the AI to attck me so early, do they do that? this was to fight off the barbs, they were crawling all over the place, most of the units were to keep them at bay.

7) I just did not know if i could pull off a rush at this level, just wanted to get the feel of things ...

8) I Buggered up on the scouting did'nt i :blush:

Myst on huts was good.

Bulbing maths is wasteful in terms of hammers. Its 400 or so hammers compared to 1800 on philosophy. Academy is better earlier on. GP was prolly best laid or used for a shrine. getting GP later on is a lot harder!!

I think you will need more than 2 scientists to make an economy of them unless you are trying to grow your cities?

If you fog bust with warriors archers are not essential early on.

Rushing is just the same as Monarch in many ways. Build 7-8 axes and go bash an AI. You just need to start earlier on higher levels. 1-2 cities and knock out enough units to take out the capital then the smaller cities. What military resources do Egyptians have. If they have no iron, copper or horse a axe rush with a few catapult should be easy. Thats why you scout out the land!!! You might want to wait till the Egyptians build holy shrine. Plus side of waiting is they may build wonders.

Scouting does help find key city locations and find the AI capital before its surrounded by other cities.

You are philosophical and you should still be able to bulb towards liberalism quite easily. You will need a good GP farm at some point for NE national wonder. 2 cities with 2 scientists would help.

Marble would help for Glib! You will still need an army of workers to chop that forest for the wonder. Mids is a tad late for 425bc and its already gone. Might still be doable if its available.

3) So far popped a GS and a GP in the capital, burned the GS on Mathematics, settled the GP in the capital.

Bulbing Math/Alpha is almost always a bad idea. Settle/Academy instead or wait for Philo bulb if it's close.

4) I am trying more a specialist heavy economy hence the farms and the libraries, i guess i should cottage some of the capital though.

You need something to pay the bills. Cottaging the capital when going specialists is usually a good way to do that if in doubt since you'll be in Bureucracy for a long time (no Towns for FS).

5) I was saving a lot of the forests in the capital for the Mids :blush:, and now i thought i will hold them for another wonder (you know chop only the tiles i need to work) ... Bad idea?

Well, think about it this way - you could have 6 less forests there and 2 more cities. You're not nearly as badly boxed in as you could be, though. Mids without Stone/Ind is suicide, I would never recommend it. TGL without Marble is tough but doable and has very good rewards with Philo, not sure if it's worth it. Could be.

6) I did'nt expect the AI to attck me so early, do they do that? this was to fight off the barbs, they were crawling all over the place, most of the units were to keep them at bay.

You're very safe. Rambo doesn't declare at Pleased and Hammu probably has Rambo as a land target(?) and has heathen hate so he will probably attack him instead if it comes to that.

7) I just did not know if i could pull off a rush at this level, just wanted to get the feel of things ...

I don't see how this start warrants a rush. Certainly wouldn't have rushed myself.

In any case, I think the biggest mistake I saw was not connecting yourself to Rambo for foreign TRs.

Thanks again guys, so it seems i could have actually done much better, if a couple of decisions / choices were made properly.

I might play a little more i donno if i will finish the game, depending on how things turn out i may post an update or just start another Emperor game and see how things go ...

BTW - I have never tried using specialists up front instead of cottages, so might have got a bit carried away :D.

So i did'nt really play this through, but i started another game on Emperor, which again looks promising,

Settings - Emperor / Fractal / Standard / Normal / Random leader drew Hammy ... never played him before,

I soon find we are isolated (initial thought --- Bummer :cry:), then i decided to go for the GW, that way i dont really need a functional military until much later.
I also grabbed the Oracle ( i happened to have marble) and CoL from it, along with it came the religion.

Our large island is not very food rich but it's decent enough land most of our cities are coastal.

I also plan to try for the GL + the colosuss, (since i have marble & copper)
It's 100 AD and i have 5 cities + 2 settlers already en route to settle two new locations within the next couple of turns. Current research output is 57 BPT.

I have attached both the starting save and my current save at 100 AD. Once again appreciate feedback or if anybody can play from the start and show me how it's done thats fine too ...

You didnt need to quit the other game!!! You could of quite easily rushed the Egyptians and land grabbed. You could of whipped 8-9 axes and taken the Egyptians 2 main cities. If you waited 7-8 turns you would of had a catapults.

I would continue the first game. Dont give up so easily!!!

The new games screams the Great Light House for 2 free trade route.

Again too few workers really. 1.5 per city is a target!

Always cottage rivers before non river grasslands as you get +1 commerce.

Shame the second silver is not in use. Borsippa for the one silver seems a bit wasteful. It will only ever work that silver the deer and sea tiles.

Your capital could use some irrigated grassland for growth.

Your planned city with the 1 sheep would access more grassland if 1N.Plains and desert dont make for a good city!

Nippur really could of done with a workboat much earlier. I assume it was pillaged by a barb galley.

Capturing Avar would give a great city to cottage or irrigate for a gp farm.

Overall when you have your own island you can rex slowly if you fog bust with warriors. Great wall will only give you a great spy that has little to do.

Oracle grab is good. You can spread your religion to lots of cities.

With Hammy you can afford to rex to 7-8+ cities by 1ad.

Your next door neighbour, Ram, has a chariot based UU, so no point defending cities with axemen.

But your power is higher than his, so the path forward is clear, CHAAARGE !

You will need a spearman or archer in each city as garrison, and you'll need about 3 spear stack-protectors, but I suggest this, plus 10 or so axe and get stuck in. You don't need to wipe him out, just take about 3 cities, then sue for peace for a load of tech. He still may be your friend later on, but there is no need for you to build any more settlers until the mid-game backfill stage.

Try to get the Bhud Shrine, but if you don't that's OK too as he'll stay in that religion making forgiveness easier to achieve.

Try to trade alphabet off Ham to get a spy into Ram - hey that rhymes !

EDIT - oops I see you've already folded like a girl ..... shame on you....

Sounds like you're too wonder happy. Try epic if you want to make rushes more viable.

Your next door neighbour, Ram, has a chariot based UU, so no point defending cities with axemen.

But your power is higher than his, so the path forward is clear, CHAAARGE !

You will need a spearman or archer in each city as garrison, and you'll need about 3 spear stack-protectors, but I suggest this, plus 10 or so axe and get stuck in. You don't need to wipe him out, just take about 3 cities, then sue for peace for a load of tech. He still may be your friend later on, but there is no need for you to build any more settlers until the mid-game backfill stage.

Try to get the Bhud Shrine, but if you don't that's OK too as he'll stay in that religion making forgiveness easier to achieve.

Try to trade alphabet off Ham to get a spy into Ram - hey that rhymes !

EDIT - oops I see you've already folded like a girl ..... shame on you....

All good suggestions but does Rammy have horse or copper?? Scout asap!!!

EDIT - oops I see you've already folded like a girl ..... shame on you....

Hee hee .... that i did mate, that i did :blush::lol: - careful the girls might take offense.

No, it was definitely winnable, but i don't know i'm just trying different things trying to see if i can do most things right and start strongly.

Also one more thing my sucsess is currently very dependant on Rushing, I.e. I tend to rush even when there is an oppurtunity to play peacefully, and i find it challenging when i dont rush, very few wins (actually maybe just one with MM) without rushing.

So just trying to kick the habit a bit as well. (i'm assuming always looking to rush may not cut it at Monarch +)

I have never really played an isolated start through, so i may actually play this one till the end.

With regards to the TGL, yeah would have been great on this map, but i did'nt think i had enough production capacity to pull it off, maybe if i had stone we could've given it a shot.

Nah ... i only play epic if i am playing with the romans, Inca, Persia or Egypr and i feel like going crazy ... :D, i'm kinda used to Normal so it gets a bit tedious to play on epic ...

With regards to the TGL, yeah would have been great on this map, but i did'nt think i had enough production capacity to pull it off, maybe if i had stone we could've given it a shot.

Count the sketchy details in this sentence :lol:

Count the sketchy details in this sentence :lol:

Yeah the great lighthouse has no double production from resources. You can easily chop it with lots of forest.

My bad ... :blush:

okay played on from your Egptian save.




My objective was kill off Egyptians.

I was far from efficient. I sent a archer exploring. Their most east city had copy underneath its city so i went for this first. It fell quite easily. His metal deposit was gone!!

I fell into strike attacking Egyptians. -17 a turn. Ackkk. This didnt stop me taking Thebes using 8-9 units. A capital with a shrine!!!! Wooot.

I then went on to take Memphis (8-9 or so units again) and her 4th city. 3 holy cities and one with a shrine captured. Oracle and Great Wall too. I have 8 cities and I can set most cities to research for now.

I have marble and soon stone. Gems in Conf holy city too.

Overall I will have a great science base. Just need to work on the economy either by cottages or specialists.

No idea why you quit this save. Overall not sure you needed so many spears/warriors and archers. Rammy didnt even have horse. My power rating to him was 2.0 before i even started.

I wouldn't have quit the first game either, but clearly you need cottages or the GLH or something to get commerce from.
Specialists are good for a phi leader sure, but they don't pay the maintenance that well.

I wouldn't have quit the first game either, but clearly you need cottages or the GLH or something to get commerce from.
Specialists are good for a phi leader sure, but they don't pay the maintenance that well.



If he could get a Jud holy shrine and spread the two religions you have a huge revenue stream. Hammy is a minor threat but he is hardly running away with the tech race. I guess cottages and some specialists would be answer. Cottages in the capital with bur civic. Theres an argument to move capital for Thebes. for the multipliers on shrine.

Connect egypt w/ road.
Kill the barb city. There are few good spots to settle, need 3-4 settlers as soon as you can get. Trade for mono and switch to OR.

Let Ramses build the wonder you like and kill him.
or...
since you have overbuilt units greatly, send them to Egypt to see what you can get form the sissy wonder hog.

A general word of advice, if you want feedback it is better to post screenies as well. In this thread it worked out well but in general you will get more response with screenies.

Have you given up on this. Its by far still winnable once you take out Rammy and recover the economy using the shrines!!!

yeah ... time's been a bit of a factor too + i dont know just could'nt keep myself interested enough to play it through. Thats been a problem for me though, i tend to start many more games than i finish ... :blush:. And not always cos i am going to lose, sometimes i donno i just dont seem inclined to play certain starts through ...
Thanks for all the advice though, but the Monarch to Emperor jump seems a bit stiff, anyways i will move up soon.

Just for fun played to 1250ad.



Since last save i have the Egptian cities. I teched towards currency. Built courthouses in most cities.

I popped a great spy and stole 4-5 techs from hammy while i pushed towards Civil Service, paper, edu (bulbed), compass and lib (bulbed)

Science has recovered now and its almost 200 beakers a turn.

I took nationalism from liberalism. I didnt want to risk going any further as it was a slow liberalism.

Hammy has engineering, machinery, HBR and other techs I need. Sadly he wont trade. We await an Ai caravel for now. Cant be too far behind.