Hello all, I've decided to start my own little forum games that have been called Dr kossin, which stands for Daily Round.

Yes, my goal is to get in a update every day - as long as I have the time (work, girlfriend, etc). I might skip a day here and there but I will compensate by playing an extra round here and there.
Now I don't plan on very long updates, sometimes just 10 turns, and will stop at strategic times.

That being said, I'm not a great player but I can manage at times. My goal is to improve and, if possible, help others improve as well. I couldn't beat Noble when I started reading this forum (could barely beat Warlord) and I am now in the process of moving up to Immortal.

That's where you come in. I need your ideas, your criticism and everything else you can throw at me - even if you can't beat Noble. Since I plan on an update everyday, there will be mistakes from my part and I might not always get the best advice going forward. That's life!

You are also welcome to shadow this game, although I would prefer you post it in spoilers and no further than I have already played. You can still shadow the whole game and post it but it is important that no one uses that knowledge (land, AIs) to help me.

Without further time wasting, let's go to the first game.

Dr kossin #1

Round 0 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8590385&postcount=11) Warrior move & settling
Round 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8590616&postcount=16) Initial scouting until first settler
Round 2a (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8593196&postcount=38) Some fog uncovered...
Round 2b (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8593577&postcount=41) To rush or not to rush
Round 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8595713&postcount=53) Consolidating the Empire
Round 4 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8599585&postcount=61) Until the birth of Christ (well, a Guru anyway)
Round 5a (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8601562&postcount=69) Short round, short question
Round 5b (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8601938&postcount=73) What would you like to build next?
Round 6 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8604681&postcount=79) To Liberalism and further preparations.
Round 7 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8607894&postcount=83) Shift+Enter

Game settings:
Immortal
Fractal (I've had a friend check that it is not isolated or semi-isolated)
Normal Speed
No Huts/Events
BUG 4.1 in Custom Assets
Everything else normal.

To start the series, I've picked my favorite leader: Hatshepsut.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10000.jpg

Creative for easy border pops, fast libraries, theatres and colosseums.
Spiritual for anarchy-free civic/religion changes, fast temples and Cristo Redemptor.

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10001.jpg

Her UB: A monument with 2 Prophet slots.

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10002.jpg

Her UU: A chariot with 5 strength. Great for taking barb cities.

We start with Agriculture and The Wheel
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10003.jpg

These are the 2 most expensive starting techs. Moreover, pottery is only 1 tech away.

And the start:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10004.jpg

2 corns, one riverside (and a riverside wine). Looks pretty good.

Here's what I think is in the fog:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10005.jpg

Where should I move the warrior?
I will post a new screenshot after some feedback.

Warr 1n to the hill.

Agreed.

1ne. although something really spectacular needs to be found to move

Warrior 1N. Settle in place. Start building a worker and research Animal husbandry.

I would move the warrior 1 NE. As opposed to moving 1 N you lose out on seeing the guessed "forested plains hill" square 3N and 1W of the settler. Since judgeing by the maps all hidden tiles next to the hill 1N of the warrior are hills, there is no benefit to moving onto a hill. Since the square you miss out on is forested, you aren't likely to be missing a resource on that square either. By moving 1NE you get to see the grass? square and the grass that are 3N, 3E of the settler and 2N, 3E of the settler. Also, since these squares don't look like hills, if there are hills behind them you will get a further bonus to tiles uncovered.

Since you can see that everything south and west of you (almost everything besides 1 square) is forested. If the warrior finds something of interest to the north east, you don't risk losing much by going after it, and Wine is definitely not a necessity to have in your BFC. Moving away from the river might not be ideal, but it's worth considering if the warrior uncovers something fun.

just for interest what you all find in one N. Forests and hills will block any advantage on vision radius. 1NE gives four unforested tiles [probably] with max info.

Settle in place first then use the extra vision as a means to get a jump on which direction the warrior should go.

Double corn, one irrigated, is very strong. It looks like you're headed straight to BW with this start unless you have a livestock resource. After that maybe AH/Writing but we'll have to see the surroundings (will probably shadow).

Warrior 1N.

Tech goes -> Mining -> BW, the rest depends on surrounding resources (you have a lot of forests..)

Build order would go Worker -> then it all depends. If you have a lot of land to fogbust, go warriors, but with all of the forests, you could go something odd like Worker -> Worker -> Settler (Double Chop) -> Warriors. This would work if you tech Pottery third, as you could pay for it all easily (what also helps is that Hatty is a Creative leader). Would also help if you find Copper for a second site (assuming you go BW #2).

Warrior 1n or 1ne. I think it doesn't matter settling in place looks best unless there is a nice resource north. On river for health bonus and 2 corns (1 irragated) and wine looks strong.

Round 0

I agreed that 1NE would reveal the most tiles so I got this:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10006.jpg

Seeing nothing too great, I settled in place, getting stone in the BFC.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10007.jpg

I got right most of the fogged tiles and we are close to coast.
Looks like we're way down south with perhaps a little backfilling land to the east.

With all these forests, is wonderspamming in the books?

I will try to play the first round tonight, but in case I don't, look for it tomorrow!

You *could* do a religious economy here.

Mining -> BW -> Mysticism would be a good way to nab Stonehenge, which will unlock your UB for all cities, and will help you on your path of religious domination.

Go with the mining/BW as suggested. Keep scouting. Worker and farm the corn.

Unless there is a war-monger nearby consider masonry next and a big push for the Great Wall. Possibly Stonehenge, but the Great wall at Immortal is a big thing.

I think you should take advantage of the stone to build the great wall, and then just chop out as many settlers/workers as you can.

I haven't gone after the great wall in any game in quite a bit of time. Assuming there are a couple of industrious civ's to compete against, is it safe to go mining>BW>masonry and using 2 workers to chop/slave out the great wall?

Round 1

Research went Mining>BW>AH>Just started Masonry... should switch for fishing I think

Worker first. Our warrior explored a bit and ran in a lion which I tried to dodge for a while but he kept following me. Luckily, he didn't kill my warrior but I lost precious scouting time.
Turn 4 - He came from the north
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10008.jpg

Turn 5 - North East
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10009.jpg

When the worker was completed, he went ahead and farmed both corns. By the time the second was grown, Thebes was size three and produced a second worker with the help of a chop.
The first worker then made a mine while the second worker started chopping for a settler while growing to size 4.

Turn 35 - North West but he could be anywhere
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10010.jpg

Turn 37 - The settler is ready.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10011.jpg

I had started roading to the second city site, but now seeing as Justinian is starting to box me in, it might be time to rush him with War Chariots. The alternative is to turtle down with the Pyramids, 6 cities and go for a cavalry war. I still need to scout westwards but seeing as Brennus found me so early I don't think I have a lot of room to expand.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10012.jpg

Thankfully, Justinian is despised by everyone I know so no Diplo hit.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10013.jpg

Techs so far
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10014.jpg

If we rush, fishing is next for growth.
Otherwise, Masonry>Fishing

Thoughts? HA rush with Pyramids?

Edit: forgot save.

"HR Kossin"? Hourly Rounds...?! I was just in the act of posting a reply to the starting position when we're at round 1 already! :eek: I love fast games though.

Don't see any way you can rush J at from here on immortal, especially with the horse there in such a poor production position. Get the gold/oasis/anything else in the fog nearby settled, and review the situation after some more scouting with WCs. Looks like a good fun start actually - a nice lot of resources but somewhat cornered. Let's see what's directly north before jumping to conclusions.

I say get the horses and start a war chariot rush of Justinian. Your land is soso and Justinian's laready looks pretty good. TEch I say masonry and Pottery. Then hit writing for the cheap libraries.

Don't settle any of those spots, especially not the Pig/Crab spot. You need to settle north, not south! Go for the Pig/Crab spot as a 4th or 5th city, but 100% not a second city. Settle a second city on the Silk for a bit of extra commerce, as the Corn will feed the Gold. Third city should go by horses or go way north (but I'm not sure what is north, as there's no screenshot). A chariot rush is still possible, but I'd go 3 cities before and go Horse Archer rush instead, as you can get a good BPT on this land (well, a good early BPT).

Why are you playing rounds so quick? If you want to improve, let people comment and reply to their comments. Don't go ahead and play another round without reading what people have to say. I have no clue why you went worker -> worker, as Justintinian was so close by that you probably should've (and could've) went worker -> Settler (improve both corns) -> Worker (Chop it) and then warriors to size 4, and another settler and worker. If you would've done something like that, you would have hit a higher BPT than you have now, and would be in a better position to attack Justin.

If you ask for people opinions, listen to them

I think Kossin wsaid he was going to do 1 round a night, which I guess is round 1, not round 0.

I agree I was also confused by the 2 workers. I would have went a few warriors or as Kadazzle said an earlier settlers as Justinian is Imperialistic. Still you are creative and can fight fo culture early.

I still say take the horses with the next city though.

Advice on posting games. Always give everyone at least one day to comment on where to move the warrior, otherwise we all get grouchy!

Pyramids looks a good build with stone and quite a lot of production-poor, food-rich cities circled around the capital, pretty much as signed on the pic above. Specialsts, yum yum. Shame Thebes wasn't 1W to get pig too - what on earth was the start algorithm thinking there?

I say get the horses and start a war chariot rush of Justinian. Your land is soso and Justinian's laready looks pretty good. TEch I say masonry and Pottery. Then hit writing for the cheap libraries.

I have to agree with MS here. Warchariots asap. Thats the main reason you play the Egptians.HA only provides 1 more strength and war chariots will beat axemen easily.

You are planning to settle a city you can back fill. I thought you always talked about blocking cities on my game and back filling!! I would grab horse city next and pump out units!

From my experience Justin will rex madly! If theres one gold there will be 2-3 more and prolly in Justin BFC. Justin can do crazy liberalism dates. Justin's holy city will only speed his Lib date up. His city will make a great wall street city too just with the shrine. If he hasnt built the shrine your UB will make that easy to do! You could try a priest only city for fun! become a religious warlord.

You have a horse resource nearby. When is your capitals next border pop? Lets grab the horse, attack and chop out war chariots and start this religious crusade. kapish!!!

Py - ra - mids! Py - ra - mids!

Yea, it looks the second worker was a mistake. I don't mind making mistakes too much as this is the way I find I learn best. Next time I get faced with this situation I will remember the mistake and likely not do it again. As to why I play the rounds fast... well I'm impatient and I find there are enough games already that allow weeks of discussion ;)

I really don't know what I was smoking when I thought of the pig/crabs city. That's 4 wasted worker turns right there.

I'm guessing tomorrow's round will feature some scouting around Justinian as well as the west.

I like Kadazzle's idea of the second city. Getting a third settler out will be fast for the horses and with 2 workers already it should be hooked up in a reasonable amount of time.

The Pyramids look like a good bet unless I need to WC rush or if a lot of land is available to grab to the west. Or other ideas!

Sorry if that sounded harsh - I wasn't intending to be that way. If I were you, I'd continue to explore north with your warrior, and explore Justin's borders as soon as possible.

What I'd personally do given the situation you're in, regarding city placement and rushing possibilities, is settle on the Silk as a second city, then the Wine/Clam site as a third, and the Horse site as a fourth. You can get out the first settler before 2200BC, second before 1800BC and third before 1600BC, meaning you have more than enough time to hit up Writing and the Mids. Once you have all those cities down (and the mids), I'd tech through to Horseback Riding and attack Justin using HA's, then broker peace for techs, and then tech up Aesthetics line and settle the Pig/Crab site as a GP farm (before you get Literature, but try and get the National Epic as soon as possible). With that, you either have 5 cities, with room for one more to the west (which can be settled very late, once your economy recovers, as you only need it for OxUnit and GlobeTheatre, but keep in mind if you have sea food there it can be powerful with Representation), but then again you could have more cities depending on your war with Justin.

Your next tech path should go Mytiscism -> Pottery -> Writing -> Horseback Riding, then turn off research until you're prepared for war. Depending on how the war goes, either go up the CoL or Currency route, or if you're not that effected by the economy, hit up the Aest line.

That's personally what I'd do in this situation, as I do prefer *safer* wars and a quick early BPT rate. I'm not saying it is the best way, just the way I would do it :P

I forgot to mention that considering all land except for the capital land is crap, I would consider going up the CoL line and getting Civil Service to unlock Bureau, you can have a very strong SSE here if you nab Mids and get six cities,

I vote religious economy with that nice holy city Justinian built for you as the base. Take it with the chariots of war or Justinian will become to powerful to take done with his rexing and holy city. Mids might be possibility if its a slow date though so you might get both. Religious economy with this UB is beast though and with mids (or rep i should say) will make this game a joke.

War Chariots and take out justinian for sure!

Yea, it looks the second worker was a mistake. I don't mind making mistakes too much as this is the way I find I learn best. Next time I get faced with this situation I will remember the mistake and likely not do it again. As to why I play the rounds fast... well I'm impatient and I find there are enough games already that allow weeks of discussion ;)

I really don't know what I was smoking when I thought of the pig/crabs city. That's 4 wasted worker turns right there.

I'm guessing tomorrow's round will feature some scouting around Justinian as well as the west.

I like Kadazzle's idea of the second city. Getting a third settler out will be fast for the horses and with 2 workers already it should be hooked up in a reasonable amount of time.

The Pyramids look like a good bet unless I need to WC rush or if a lot of land is available to grab to the west. Or other ideas!

I am against mids as you dont learn games by building mids each time with stone. It would open up a GE though.

I might continue from your first save and do a WC rush for fun.

You can always whip a settler! asap. The gold city will help push early science. No idea why you went for pig/crab city so early!

You are like me you just want to play out the game.

I play these things in one sitting. Are you cool with me partitioning the shadow in spoilers (1 post) with clearly marked dates or would you prefer I not shadow?

@Kadazzle
Oh, it didn't sound harsh at all. I welcome your advice. Remember that for a HA rush I also have to slip in Hunting>archery though. If I don't rush, yea the land will be crap unless I get the Pyramids. I know the power of HA rush but since production won't be great with this land I'm debating if a WC rush would not be more efficient.
6 str vs 5 str
20% innate retreat vs 10%
both are immune to first strikes
WC has a 100% bonus vs Axemen
50:hammers: vs 30 :hammers:
HAs will have 2 promotions thanks to Stables


@whats a navy
Of course if Justinian is out of the way we'll have a strong shrine we can spread (and an easy GProphet to build it unless Justinian does it). Saladin will also spread his religion quite a bit and probably before me (harder to spread religion). We'll have to see if there are more AIs on the continent to see how religion will work. Brennus and Saladin tend to be religious nuts but also don't attack at Pleased. I would rather run scientists first with the Pyramids though. Moreover since we're Spiritual, Caste System makes Scientists even more attractive.

@Gumbolt
Well, play the map I say! If it calls for a rush and then the Pyramids, I'll go for it. Feel free to play from there or even the 4000BC save.

@TMIT
I would personally not look at spoilers, the only thing I don't want is people using those spoilers to suggest an approach for me. I suppose I'll trust the Forums on this one, in any case it shouldn't make any difference. Feel free to shadow (and provide advice!).

For the record, I only play monarch, so please feel free to take my advice with (more than) a pinch of salt. :)

Re: your city location, I agree with madscientist, I’d be settling the horses next for the WCs...after all, you need to pasture and connect them to the capital before you’ve access to them there. Looking at your save, the blue circle 1N of horses is the best long term site (can irrigate through Memphis’ corn if wanted), although it lacks hills. 1S as you have it, is better short term.

IMHO, the other spot I’d look at is 1NE of the gold (you have 1NW in the desert)....in return for losing one forested plain and silk (which can be taken with another city), you (i) get some grassland hills (can windmill and work), (ii) get defensive bonuses from settling on a hill (iii) avoid the 25% infrastructure penalty that a desert city incurs. In either case, I’d be looking to settle near the gold, not only for the commerce, but the one extra happy (meaning an extra tile worked per city or more ability to whip and deal with the weariness.)

After that, it depends on what your scouting reveals IMHO. Discovering good land means another settler, not doing so means war. If the latter, then, with so much of the surrounding land lacking food, you have to ask: how much can your 2nd & 3rd cities contribute to a war effort? Since, IMHO, most of your army production will have to come from your capital, I’d be inclined to turn the surrounding forests into WCs rather than a wonder. (BTW, if you need convincing re: the merits of massing WCs given their 30H base cost vs 50H for HAs, have a look at Sis’ ALC as Hatty.) This, in turn, suggests that, after fishing (for the WB) and masonry, writing (maybe via pottery) is the way to go.

Look forward to seeing how you go. :)

@learner gamer
I think you are mistaken. There are no production bonus/penalties depending on the tile on which you settle. The only thing that changes is that tile's yield. You can get 1 extra :food: (settle on a grassland with a food resource), 1 (plains hill or plains with a hammer resource)~2 (plains hill with hammer resource) extra :hammers: and 1~2 (if Financial) extra :commerce:

I remember Sisiutil's Hatty ALC, I was lurking back then :) While he used them quite well, that was back in Vanilla and on Prince. It still works in BtS/Immortal (I've run a few tests to see) but I may not be able to finish off Justinian in one wave. This would be the advantage of going HAs, I could broker for peace techs. The future will tell...

I might do a mini-round to see if there's any land to the west, but I still have to decide between the gold or horse city.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate for a second to rush Justinian. War chariots are just too powerful to pass up. Look to pillage any copper/iron early to prevent the guys with nasty pointy sticks - beyond that you should be able to roll him quickly. Get horses up with second city and then chop everything in sight.

go go war chariots!
go go pyramids!

Mmmm... War chariots first anyway.

@learner gamer
I think you are mistaken. There are no production bonus/penalties depending on the tile on which you settle. The only thing that changes is that tile's yield.

Apologies, what was I smoking when I typed that? :blush:

Re yield: indeed, what I meant to say is that the hill would become a 2F 1H 1C tile when settled instead of 1H at the mo. Wouldn't believe English is my first language would you. :lol: To avoid confusion, I've deleted the reference to bonuses in the edit.

(from a phone, sorry for typos)

my 2 cents. Totally agree with playing the map and going for mids with chops. I totally disagree with gumbolt. Knowing what strategy is how you learn, building mids is a crutch for some players but to ignore it here is to discard a useful tool. Also agree that you should rush, you will stagnate in this mediocre land if you don't, even with a mids specialist setup, however I also disagree with going for horse archers. I cannot fathom why to research an expensive tech when you have 5 strength chariots as your uu... 1 more strength for a (more expensive?) unit and a huge delay? Not in my book.

Round 2a

This is a very short update. I decided to go for the horses first, so I switched research to Fishing and sent the workers to road in that direction.
The overflow from the settler went into the Barracks and 1 turn later I finished the warrior.
This is what the 2 warriors found:

First, north. There's at least 1 good city with copper! I just have to make sure Justinian doesn't settle there (unless he already has copper).
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10015.jpg

And then a GP farm...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10016.jpg

Yes that's 3 fish! It will lack production but I can see the Globe Theater getting whipped here. Great GP farm as well. Makes the Pyramids even juicier.

Any new thoughts?

Yeah get producing war chariots and slaughter Justin. ;)

The fish city can be back filled.

For each 3 HA you get 5 WC. So the retreat odds are less of an issue as you get more anyway. Chop 9-10 of them and go!!

Don't see any mistake of 2nd worker, 2 worker and 1 settler at turn 37 is pretty good. yes, the horse city next and then the gold. Scout Justinain's land, as long as you can control his metal, no need to chop too many forests -- they are precious.

Round 2b

To sum it up : this was hard. Were it not for War Chariots, the game would likely be over :S
I did reload an auto-save for a misclick. Anyway, on to the game.

From the last round, I settled the Horse/Fish city and put research on 0% because it wasn't connected yet but would be the next turn.

Research went Fishing>Finish Masonry>Pottery>Writing>Place on Aesthetics

I met Hannibal but forgot to take a screenshot.

Decided to rush Justinian when I saw he went for the other copper almost at the beginning of the round.

I built *War Chariot until I had 11, some from Chops, some from whips and some from the horse city. I also squeezed in the gold/corn city at some point.

I looked at the Culture shape and when for his Capital first.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10027.jpg

Justinian has swords! (Which means: a lot of spears and barely any Axemen.... )
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10028.jpg

This is why:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10017.jpg
Gems! Also Ivory and a religion for a high early :)cap. Sadly it didn't contain anything of interest. I whipped a Library and a warrior with the unhappy people. (Still unhappy at this point)

I pillaged some roads around so his Spears couldn't move so easily and found this...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10018.jpg
I had moused over it but that's 2 settlers waiting around. I really despise rushing Justinian.

I tried as best as I could to pillage all his mines but I could never get his Copper out. At least I got both Irons.

Justinian wouldn't talk yet so I hit another city, Thessalonica, which I kept. I attacked over the river since it wasn't overly fortified.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10025.jpg

It's not great but it will help generate a Prophet for the Shrine at some point. Still, a settled GG and Pig are always good but the most important reason I kept it is for the Iron. (I don't have Copper/Iron anywhere else)

Now Justinian is willing to talk on the upside. I don't see any easy way of getting rid of him just now though.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10019.jpg

I whipped a granary the previous turn and 2 chops came in this turn, yielding in 212 :hammers: towards the Pyramids.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10020.jpg

Here are Justinian's last two cities with metal sources pinpointed. Also note Brennus has a settler under that spear and will likely settle next turn.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10021.jpg

Mouseover of the stack outside Constantinople - 2 spears and 2 archers
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10029.jpg

Techs: Saladin has Alphabet. I can tech Aesthetics in 10~11 turns at 100% research.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10022.jpg

Current units... 21 War Chariots built, 10 lost. The last battle also generated a Great General. He's sitting in Thebes.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10023.jpg

Killed units: 5 Axe, 4 Archers, 3 Swords and 1 Spear. 10:13 is not really good but I'll take it. I've also captured 3 workers.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10024.jpg

The known world.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10026.jpg

I think I should take peace and finish him off at catapults or something. Having Ivory also opens up Elephants so maybe teching HBR instead of Aesthetics?

Going forward, I need to chop chop the Pyramids and backfill the land. The clams city I am not convinced of anymore, it could claim the Rice as well if we wait. But that's probably not worth it if I can get my hands on The Pyramids.

Hopefully I did not make too many blunders (cottages!?!?) and maybe things get easier from here :crazyeye:

Look for next round tomorrow!

As a starting neighbour Justin is nasty!!! Expands too fast.

Good work on the rush. That Holy city will pay for itself. Gems. ivorty and rice. Jackpot!!! I would finish Justin off before he builds more cities. How many spears does he have?

WC's rock!! You do need to get that shrine up and running asap. UB built anywhere?? All that excess gold will help found construction or HBR. Choose your poison carefully. ;)

Currently, I would chop out the Pyramids, sign a CEASE FIRE (important it's not a treaty) with Justin then get all of your units ready at his borders by Adrianople. Then once you have all the WCs there, attack him, take the city, then broker a peace deal. North of your borders is all jungle/desert anyways, and is not use to you, so it's better if you let Justin keep that and improve it while you tech up the Construction/HBR line and improve your economy.

You'll need more workers, but this game it looks like you're in very good shape. Cottages are a good idea in the cap, Bureau looks good too.

@Gumbolt
I don't have Mysticism yet so no Obelisks built so far. Justinian has about 4 spears at least left I would say. Construction is after Mathematics so I can't get it just yet.

@Kadazzle
4 workers stand next to Thebes to finish The Pyramids presto.
It will depend on where he sends his leftover spears but he has 1 spear, maybe 2 in that city. A Cease Fire is the way to go, I agree. Taking Adrianople will unify the empire so it would be great. Maybe he'll even develop that jungle up north for me.

pilaging metals could have helped surely

Play with yields on, that way even though you can't see iron, you can tell where his iron based on a mine that gives more hammers then it should if there was no resource there.

Play with yields on, that way even though you can't see iron, you can tell where his iron based on a mine that gives more hammers then it should if there was no resource there.

Indeed, doing this was a factor in my shadow...although I also got open borders with him and completely scouted him out with a chariot as I built up.

okay, i tried to go from last posted save [tried means i reloaded at some point for some stupid reason].

Had epic fail on trying pillage iron, so this would not win awards for speed and beauty. [also had some problems while trying whip warrior for cash:mad: 3.19:mad:]

Com,ments from seeing stuff from inside game -
to little chopping [of course i built another worker]
whiping chariots is very meh.
IT is zero point in having 300 gold. I'd rather have tech and work coast to avoid strike.
Not really sure what the hell you were doing after 1240BC. Why you stopped after getting his capitol? As it is now you either call peace or Justinian gets his cap back.

You know you need hunting to get phants hapiness, right?

@Loki Strikes
I do play with yields on. I sent 2 pillagers for every resource but like I said I could not get his bronze resource. This was a major headache, and since his other iron was so deep in his territory.

@TMIT
I should really have gone for Writing earlier, I couldn't scout him and that caused me a lot of trouble -_-

@Soirana
Yes, I'll sign a Cease Fire now and continue after a little while. I'm looking at your save to see where I went wrong. The biggest thing I find is that you did not build the gold city while I did. I now see taking Justinian's cities was more important, so was chopping the Pyramids (I knew those cottages was a bad idea). In the spirit of learning I will continue from my save, but I will also replay from the previous save and try your approach.

Pyramids (I knew those cottages was a bad idea)

Yes if you chopping mids to make more room for cottages something is wrong.

Yes if you chopping mids to make more room for cottages something is wrong.

Indeed :crazyeye:

Anyway, just done replaying. The date is 925 BC, Justinian is out of the picture and The Pyramids are in. Settlers are on their way (there are at least 6 excellent spots left) and Aesthetics is almost in. I've also made a quick detour for Hunting to get the extra happy. This is now a very easy position compared to the one I left in the other save. Obviously, I now see that when going for a rush there's no time for small detours anymore that I could get away with on Emperor. Lesson learned.

Forget the Pyramids and get more war chariots. Pillage the metals at all cost then bring down as much military as needed to kill off Justinian. Settle the GG in Thebes. Once Justinian is dead you can try for the pyramids.

If you wait for war elephants and catapults I guantentee Justinian will have longbows.

Round 3

First, I took a Cease Fire to allow myself to regroup.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10030.jpg

It also had the positive effect of scattering Justinian's troops as he settled a new city.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10049.jpg

As per Mad's suggestion, I settled the Great General in Thebes and set on to build War Chariots to finish Justinian off. My workers were reassigned to chopping for The Pyramids which were completed in 650 BC.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10042.jpg

Immediately switched civics. It improved science quite a bit (2 settled Great Generals, used some Scientists as well).
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10043.jpg

The workers were later on assigned to road towards Brennus' city for Foreign trade routes. I still need to explore westwards to connect to Saladin's and Hannibal's trade networks.
Research path went Hunting>Aesthetics>Trade for Alphabet+Mathematics+Iron Working and Mysticism.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10032.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10033.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10034.jpg
While Mysticism is not the best of ideas for a trade, it opens up Obelisks which open up 2 Prophet slots and The Statue of Zeus.

I resumed the war with Justinian as soon as I had enough new War Chariots and when he started improving his iron again. I gained a few workers and proceeded towards Nicaea which I took in 575 BC.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10031.jpg

Finally his back was broken and he had no more access to metals! I pillaged some improvements in Adrianople for gold and to try and get his 2 spears to come out, which they would do but only later. So I sent the War Chariots to his other city, Antioch.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10045.jpg

Which I razed since I did not like its location, cost 8gpt and would not be any help in the near future.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10046.jpg

Justinian then sent his Spearmen out of Adrianople to tackle my pillagers. This only left 2 archers in Adrianople so I moved everything that I had towards the city.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10047.jpg

Justinian is no more in 425 BC. I decided to keep the city as it was akward to settle the Iron in any other way and I did not want Brennus to send a settler in the area (I currently don't have any handy).
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10048.jpg

Compared to Soirana's, my alternate try and I suppose TMIT's shadow game, this is extremely poor play!

Here is the view of the land: city sites have been decided and look obvious. I'm leaning to settle west of the Clams but doing this will render the rice unusable, which is not so bad in itself since it is not irrigated.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10035.jpg

Justinian's former land. The Aqueduct is for a shot at the Hanging Gardens. There are 3 good city sites here and should be settled in the near future I believe.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10036.jpg

Tech situation. I mm'd cities so that Currency will finish next turn.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10037.jpg

Relations. I took no Diplo hit for 2 DoWs against Justinian, which is great. OTOH, I need Saladin to spread Hinduism to me so that I don't have to worry about Diplo for the next thousand years.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10038.jpg

Now, religion-wise, Buddhism is now spread to 4 cities. If I can generate a GProphet, the shrine will surely become handy as I spread it a bit around. I have not yet generated my first great person so I could instead whip the Obelisk and get a quick Prophet out.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10039.jpg

Built 27 War Chariots and 2 workers, 8 captured for a total of 10. I need more workers to make up for the lost time.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10040.jpg

I've killed just a bit more of Justinian's unit than I lost. It's really not good.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10041.jpg

I might not have time to get a round in tomorrow but I might be able to play a second later on today.

Going forward, I need to backfill the land and get settlers. The Statue of Zeus would be nice for Deficit research, which is why I have some Obelisks going up.
By my count, I need 5 settlers and about 6~8 more workers.
This will leave me with 12 cities and almost all of them good ones.

After Currency, I think Code of Laws is inevitable. It will open up the Philosophy bulb and Caste System+Pacifism. Getting Litterature for the NE would be good but without Marble, I don't think it's worth it.

As long as Hinduism spreads relatively soon, I believe this game is just about in the bag, but I've yet to see what's in the fog. Let's hope I didn't speak to soon!

Library --> scientists. A lot of your land can't get irrigated any time soon so just run a bunch of size 4-5 cities until CS. With all this green land, you should be fine. And send out a scouting WC when you get a chance.

great game, your pic of justinian's land is a duplicate of the previous image

great game, your pic of justinian's land is a duplicate of the previous image

Thanks, I had missed that - I have fixed the screenshot.

Nice job Finishing Justinian off, now it's just a matter of fixing the econ and hoping Brennus doesn't decide to bite you in the a$$. Maybe some spears to defend against his future ellies would be in order. Your city marker to the SE of Thessalonica looks like a bad spot- lots of overlap with just one fish. A better site is 5S of Thess.- Clam, Rice, Fish and enough production for infrastructure. Probably a better choice for a GP farm than your little penninsula way out west. Someday a city on that penn. with moai statues may be productive, but that is a long ways from now.

The City marker SE of Thessalonica actually has 2 fish in its BFC:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10050.jpg

I like the idea of 5S of Thessalonica, I'll need 1 less settler, get a better city rather than 2 semi-marginal ones but I lose out on a fish and several grassland.

The peninsula city will be able to run 7 scientists at size 10 without a food deficit. Combined with a library and Representation, that's some great early science. Moai will definitively go there or perhaps the Globe Theater if drafting becomes necessary.

Looks good, Mids can bring in quite a lot of early science with specs assigned. When currency is in next turn you'll revert to working tiles i assume to grow the cities to their happy caps. That double fish spot looks tasty indeed.

The city near your capital has 3 fish and iron. Dont forget upkeep cost is higher further from capital. That being said you have a solid science base it seems.

I cant see you losing this game really. You can still do a phant/pult rush on Celts.

Round 4
A rather short update but there are many possible paths ahead.

Currency came in the very next turn. I opted for CoL next as the religion wasn't yet founded and Courthouses would be nice for my stretched empire. We got the religion and it went in Memphis.

Saladin was being Saladin and sent me 2 Missionaries early in the round. I converted as soon as they spread their faith.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10051.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10052.jpg

I looked at my neighbors for extra means of getting gold such as this:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10053.jpg
It may not look like much but after 50 turns it's a lot.

In 250BC, at 50% odds we got a nice surprise:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10054.jpg

Needless to say I sent him here:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10056.jpg
It instantly gave this 5gpt. The shrine is currently at +8gpt even though I have yet to build 1 missionary.

225BC A nice trade. We have several Calendar resources and extra gold is always needed.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10055.jpg

The only City I built this round, the pigs were improved on the same turn it was built. I probably should have gotten a few more, but a lot of infrastructure was needed: libraries, granaries, lighthouses and courthouses.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10059.jpg

100BC I checked the Wonder Screen and notice that the Hanging Gardens have not been completed, so...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10068.jpg

Resulting in:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10069.jpg
For a nice empire-wise boost!

Finally, the last tech of the round:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10058.jpg

Current trades, and possibilities:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10060.jpg

Tech screen. Looks in good shape.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10061.jpg

I switched to OR a few turns ago stupidly so I can't switch to Bureau just yet. Capital is building Chitchen Itza for failure gold.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10062.jpg

The tech tree. I'm guessing Paper next but anything is fair game at this point I guess.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10063.jpg

Demographcis.. first in land and first in GNP at 0%
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10064.jpg

What I built... 12 current workers... 0 cottages.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10065.jpg

The empire - north
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10066.jpg

The empire - south
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10067.jpg

I need to finish filling the land and need a few more workers. Monarchy I can't trade for yet so I'll try putting 1 turn into it for a trade with Saladin. I'm also expecting another GP soon from Thebes. 69% GS or 31% GE. If it's a GE, should I make a detour via Litterature, keep him for the Taj Mahal or a Corporation?
A GS I might keep to bulb part of Education since we'll be there before I can get another one although I could always use an Academy somewhere.

Next round will be tomorrow!

What victory are you looking into?
I'm pretty sure you can manage a nice religious win here (needing optics isn't that bad).

I'd cottage up your capital and run Bureau. Added to that, I'd cottage Adrianople and your NW city, to get a little more research. Specialists in all the other cities will do. Your game looks good.

Once Brennus is at pleased you'll be safe, which won't take long now that you're running OR and share hinduism with him. The game is pretty much in the bag at this point.

Just looked at the save and i have a couple of questions,

Why are you researching monarchy? You can trade it with Sal if you want to right now. It's worthless as well atm since you'll be running rep for quite some time. No marble so paper seems the way to go but i would understand something like compass. If you do go monarchy be sure to research priesthood first, don't know if you traded for col, if you self researched it you threw some beakers by not researching priesthood first.

Most of your cities are way under the happy cap, i think you should grow them and either whip them for buildings that can sustain specs (and then grow them again) such as market or go caste and assign as many specs as you can once the cities have grown to happy cap. You have cities now that have a few specs assigned but can't have more because many farms aren't worked. They're really far too small atm.

I'd make haste settling the cities near banana and silk as well.

I hope you start chaining irrigation... And Adrianapolis should work farmed FP instead grassland farm.

Monarchy is not worth it despite any amount of wineries. Your workers should be busy chaining for a while. I do imgaine you building chitza for cahs so trading arround CoL for faster cashing in would not hurt.

Overall you are in wining position. Good work for not needing cats to finish job.:goodjob:

@cabert
I believe I can pretty much aim at any VC from this point so making up my mind would be nice. I would need to build the AP for a religious win and spread Buddhism some more to my religious friends so I may opt to go in that direction, it will be also easier if the hidden AIs aren't Theocracy lovers like Isabella.

@kadazzle
Running cottages while in Representation seems counterproductive. It could be useful with Bureaucracy granted but how much time will it take to be better than Representation Scientists?

@Dirk
Monarchy was just a placeholder. There's 3 Wine in our borders that could be improved and traded for money/other resources. I had tried trading CoL to Saladin a few turns ago but he wouldn't take it, is he willing to now? Most cities have just recently been whipped for Courthouses and such so I'll take your advice and grow them back first before assigning more specialists. Settling the 3 last cities will be a priority in the next round, they are really strong sites as you say.

@Soirana
Yes, CS came in the turn I stopped so it is time to start chain irrigation. Good catch on Adrianople, I'm completely ignored the fp fo some excuse I can't make up. Trading CoL around seems like a good thing to do as you say since gold is pretty low in the coffers as well.

Comparing grassland farm/rep specialists to cottages, you have:

to feed 1 specialist, you need 2 grassland farms. Thus, 3 pop = 6 beakers. Each cottage gives +1 (since we still get commerce from riverside farms in either case), so 3 cottages will give 3 commerce at the start, which isn't as good as rep scientists. But then after 10 turns, they become equal, once the cottages grow. And after another 20 turns, they become better (especially with PP).

Not, that ignores a few things. Specialists are better in that they are nicer to whip away if needed, if you quickly don't need production they're a bit more versatile, and I have completely ignored the GPP (which depending on your game, may or may not matter. What are the odds that a random city running 2 scientists will let you pop an extra GP in your game that you would normally otherwise not have?)

Mainly, if you plan on running bureaucracy, may as well get the most from it and get the commerce bonus, so cottaging your cap makes sense. And I usually find it's useful to cottage another city as a sort of gold farm as well, to power your economy.

Round 5a

I played 3 turns to the next GP and the result is:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10070.jpg

So far, I set the cities to mostly grow, revolted to Bureau/Caste (for hopefully a GS soon) and workers have been irrigating. 1 settler is already done and another on the way as are extra workers.

I can detour to Literature in 2 turns, settle him, or keep him for a future use. The AP is also a possibility I would suppose (4 turns to Theology).

Thoughts?

GLH in MEMPHIS? if you are planing to settle all your marks it will pay off. And you will certainly earn style points by obtraining GLH in AD's by GE:lol:

If you want to run say a cottaged bureaucracy Capital, would it make sense to shift to the shrine city? For all the commerce infrastructure should probably be built there anyway. Or does City upkeep and trade routes overcompensate the advantages?

@Soirana
Nice idea, that's 12 extra trade routes and makes the clams/wine city much better than what it looked like at first.

@Agramon
City upkeep would be similar I believe. Bureaucracy has no effect on the shrine income and the city isn't as food rich as Thebes hence I would not go that way. Constantinople would be a good candidate to get the Forbidden Palace though.

Round 5b
A longer playset this time, but there was not much to report. I was also distracted and forgot to check for assigned spy-specialists a few times.

The tech path was Paper>Education>Philo>Liberalism (1 turn from completion).

I finished building the proposed cities and added a few workers. The land is mostly improved at this point so I did not need much more workers. There was some bad luck as I popped a Great Prophet instead of a Great Scientist (while in Caste System) for an Academy. I settled him in Constantinople to use the :gold: modifiers.

As per Soirana's suggestion, I moved the GE to Memphis.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10071.jpg

After checking the Wonders tab, it is time to build The Great Lighthouse. It made the new coastal cities instantly profitable so it was a good idea.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10072.jpg

I made a few trades this round, mostly backfilling techs, resources for gold and old techs for gold.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10073.jpg

Fast forward to 620AD, Brennus finally completes Chitchen Itza.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10074.jpg

It gives us 472 failure gold the next turn.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10075.jpg

After part researching Philosophy (Saladin got the religion in his 1-tile island city :lol:) we trade for:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10076.jpg

Saladin is now at Friendly so I can trade for as many things as I want from him :)

I then use Philosophy to trade with Hannibal:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10077.jpg

I built Universities in my top 6 hammer cities as soon as Education came in with the help of the whip. The end result is that Oxford University is 5 turns from completion. I can also 4-pop whip it, taking away mostly mines but I'm not sure this is such a good idea.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10083.jpg

Bringing us to the end of the round overview.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10078.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10079.jpg

Liberalism is 1 turn from completion. I would like to get a deeper tech since nobody seems that close, all lacking Education and the last 2 civs don't seem like they have any research power.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10082-1.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10081-1.jpg

I am thinking going Pacifism+Caste System will allow me to generate some fast Scientists at last.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10080-1.jpg

It seems pretty late now but a Biology slingshot ala Rusten would be quite nice. Then again I could go for a Cavalry war and Capitulate the whole continent.

I'm thinking of wrapping this game soon as the position is quite strong and there isn't much need for discussion to ensure a win anymore.

Anyway, I await your thoughts and suggestions.

Decide on victory. If gunning for space, then going for Bio would be strong. If going for war, then maybe grabbing Steel for free, and mowing everyone down with Cannons would be good.

I'd go gunpowder> chem and take steel. An alternative would be nat> music (or music >nat if you think the GA is still available) and take mil trad, > gunpowder (cuirassiers).

If you want some nice tech from lib, I suggest astro first (build ships), find out what your neighbours are doing, then scimet, and get physics from the lib.
You can bulb the free scientist for a good part of biology (or for chemistry if you don't have it at that point).
It's a bit overambitious at that level, but you have all the tools in your hands.

Looking good. When you meet the other Ai you will have so many techs to trade to back fill where needed. A lot of them can prolly be bypassed. Ox uni before 1000ad is impressive considering start.

Which VC arte you going for. Is the religious option open or do you just want to bash a few AI around.

Another mids and GLH save. Ackkkk have we taught you nothing here!!! hehe

I think I'll go for a military approach and then build the UN.
The problem with the Religious Victory is I haven't built the AP and Brennus is larger than me and will likely not build it.
If I capitulate the whole landmass, Diplo Victory is assured. But then again, chances are the other 2 civilizations out there will likely be backwards so I could as well finish them.

I usually dislike 1-movement wars, especially on Normal but in this case I can likely take Steel from Liberalism for a Cannons+Musket war while teching towards rifling/artillery/Infantry, build 1 massive army and steamroll the continent. Once Brennus is capitulated (he will be hardest because of long border and power), the rest should be easy.

So, plan is Steel from Liberalism I think. 3-fish city looks like a good Globe Theater candidate so maybe a quick detour over there will be warranted.

I'll try to get a round up to Steel, or up to whatever happens before, in a few.

Round 6
I set out to execute the plan I proposed.

I set research on Engineering at 0% while Oxford finished.

Meanwhile, the religious victory approach was burried.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10084.jpg

Hannibal and Brennus kept moving in/out of Friendly during the round, I took the opportunity to make these 2 trades:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10085.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10086.jpg
Sending Hannibal into Slavery made him lose 1 turn of Revolt but sadly not a second as he did not revolt back. Still, less Great People for him.

Once Oxford was completed, I made a civic switch:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10087.jpg

I then assigned 2 cities to generate a few Scientists. The first one was used in a Golden Age to generate more and help in war preparations. I did not bulb him as he would have researched PP which was not urgent.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10095.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10096.jpg

In 1060 AD, I finish Liberalism and select Steel.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10088.jpg

Here is the still small army that I started building
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10090.jpg

Saladin has just researched Education so I did this trade, on the path to rifles.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10091.jpg

My power went considerably up even though I'm still far from Brennus. He won't have a stack to counter mine in a few turns though...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10092.jpg

Demographics look fine, but second in production (Brennus is also in a Golden Age).
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10093.jpg

Techs... I might be able to trade for Guilds next turn so I'll put the slider at 0% and send the research overflow somewhere else, possibly Scientific Method.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10094.jpg

Cities overview.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10097.jpg

Since I've not used the whip so much in this set, cities are ripe for building masses of canons in the coming turns. Unless Saladin makes magic rifles, this looks in the bag.

I've got some unhappiness in a city, since it isn't garrisoned. There's a unit moving in that will be there next turn though.

Here's a look at Brennus' land.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10098.jpg

I will probably march towards his Capital, taking his cities on the way as that is probably the fastest way to get him to Capitulate. I will need to post a few defenders in my border cities as he will undoubtedly send pillagers.

Any advice going forward?

I don't understand why you don't garrison your cities.
It's a bit odd to allow useless unhappiness.
+ You didn't build the HE. It's really a bad idea, when you'r egoing full out units to not build this one. Thessalonique would be a good candidate (highest hammer output).

On the science departement, I would go astro before scimet, because of the discount you could get. Other than that, don't delay the war, brennus is ripe.

Because why waste money having to pay unit upkeep when the city can stay happy itself? If you look at the cities that are unhappy, they are all low-population cities that probably just grew past their happy-cap, and now need a garrison troop to put it back at +3 happy. Every little bit of commerce helps.

Because why waste money having to pay unit upkeep when the city can stay happy itself? If you look at the cities that are unhappy, they are all low-population cities that probably just grew past their happy-cap, and now need a garrison troop to put it back at +3 happy. Every little bit of commerce helps.
is seems both a bit too much micromanagement and a bit risky
when you have no troop to upgrade in a city, you're damn vulnerable, and having to check for unhappiness every turn is a bit :sleep:.
Since there is war in next few turns (or right now, if you ask me), unhappiness from WW will rise fast, and it's a bit useless to try to gain 1 or 2 commerce points. More so when the army is standing useless all this time.

Round 7

I sent the overflow towards Scientific Method since I had the UN in mind, since capitulating everyone on this continent would give me enough population for a Diplomatic Win. I also take this trade next turn:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10099.jpg

After my next Great Scientist, which made an Academy in the Capital :lol: I switched civics to war-mode.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10100.jpg

This is the largest force Brennus fielded, having scouted all his cities.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10101.jpg

My own modest stack was finally ready. I went to his Capital while taking the cities in the way.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10102.jpg

Attack odds were great...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10103.jpg

I razed the desert city since I didn't need it and was not in State Property.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10104.jpg

This is the counter force Brennus sent at me. Actually, they never even entered my territory, scared of my secondary stack I suppose.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10105.jpg

Tolosa falls...
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10111.jpg

Finally meet someone new!
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10106.jpg

Gandhi is actually not doing too bad for himself... because of his other neighbor:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10108.jpg

After taking his capital and 2 satellite cities, Brennus is ready to concede capitulation.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10107.jpg

I then merged my stacks and set my eyes upon Saladin.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10109.jpg

I take a city on the second turn of war.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10112.jpg

After another marginal city, Mecca falls, yielding:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10113.jpg

Saladin is immediately ready to kiss the ring.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10114.jpg

I send everything towards Hannibal and after taking just one city, he's gone too.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10115.jpg

All cities at this point are assigned to build wealth and I select Mass Media to research. I get lucky and pop a GE the turn I start the United Nations!
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10116.jpg

He instantly completes it too.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10117.jpg

End screenies follow.
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10118.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10119.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/kossin1/DR10120.jpg

This game was really fun for the first 100 turns or so but after Justinian was gone, the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse were built, it was just a rout. But then again, most games are decided by 1AD except, I guess, on Deity and of course ninja wins by the AI.
I will start Dr Kossin #2 soon, if not tonight, tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

Excellent win! Amazing stack of cannons there while pursuing the UN victory.

Well played :goodjob:, it was not a hard map i think but i remember from the years of the immortal IU that most players including myself there wouldn't reach the science rate and expansion you've got here normally. Now try obs Liz deity challenge.

I peeked at everyone's spoilers as I have never tried a deity map yet :S
I might still try it though.

Nice win Kossin.

That was fun! :goodjob: Been lurking the whole time. Dont think there's much advice i can give you ;).

nice win, I didn't do as well (1680 AD diplo win, with gandhi building the UN in my shadow).
I was on my way for a conquest win, having taken mansa's capital already (he was ready to capitulate), but indeed diplo was faster.

a little nitpicking : using the scientist for bulbing scimet would certainly have been faster.
How did you get astro (prereq for physics which you need for electricity), since you didn't even have compass? through trades?

@Cabert
Yea, I traded with my vassal Brennus after setting his research path. It seems this whole game my GPs were badly timed and I could never properly bulb, which would have netted me a much faster win.

Settle in place first then use the extra vision as a means to get a jump on which direction the warrior should go.

Double corn, one irrigated, is very strong. It looks like you're headed straight to BW with this start unless you have a livestock resource. After that maybe AH/Writing but we'll have to see the surroundings (will probably shadow).

Agreed, you have a lot of trees which you should turn into a lot of settlers.

EDIT: I just saw this game was already over! Talk about showing up late to the show.

;)
You're welcome to join the discussion on Dr kossin #2 though, link in my signature.