Im guessing people have already talked about this.. but im just asking... does anyone really use the catipult.. As i sometimes use it to defend a boarder town.. but i fine that when takin it into battle it never seems to hit anything... this can not be right.. Becuz Alexander the great use it real well to take a citie. and our history is littered with pictures of these weapons. so why do they suck big time now??:confused:

You are right, they are absolutely worthless. They are too slow to move before railway. Also, like any bombardment units, you need a stack of 40 to make the bombing effective but in acient time, it is too much both in production and maintanence costs.

Anyone got any ideas about what could be done about the catipult??

Use them on coasts to slam galley's.

why would you want to build that slow, takes lots of shields (in the ancient days) and fails 60% of the time

you can waste ships from land with them.. im gonna try that...Laf..

and yes,, they do cost alot to make for being so ****ty..:)

Catapults are useful for knocking down hoplites and legionaires or attacking hill top cities or damaging units in the open. Sometimes one hit point can mean the difference for an attacking unit.

If a catapult saves one Swordsman or Horseman unit during its entire lifetime it has paid for its 20 shields plus 50% interest. In an attacking stack of ten Swordsmen, one or two catapults is useful. With a fast moving stack of Horsemen, probably best to skip them.
- Bill

Catapults have an attack of 4 and a cost of 20 shields.

Artillery have an attack of 12 and cost 80 shields! Thats 3 times the attack for 4 times the price. The drawback is the inability to move in jungle and over mointains without roads.

Anyone that uses artillery stacks in the end game can see that catapult stacks can be just as effective in the early games!

Though I tend to build catapults for later upgrades, I have attacked and defended very successfully with them!

artillery has rate of fire 2. 12*2 for 80 vs 4*1 for 20, i.e. artillery 1.5 times more cost effective shieldwise.

Artillery also have a bombardment range of 2 which gives them an extra hit as the AI stack approaches.

Originally posted by pvzh
artillery has rate of fire 2. 12*2 for 80 vs 4*1 for 20, i.e. artillery 1.5 times more cost effective shieldwise.

Comparison not really possible. You also need to look at what you are attacking. Spearmen vs infantry etc, etc.

This can become very complicated. Having catapults in your attacking swordmen stacks do help though...

they suck, they fail most of the time and when they are successful they don't do much damage. they do not soften up the enemy well at all. buy a spearman instead

Catapults have their uses. This is from Bushido, Way of Samurai -- GOTM11. The enemy capital of Beijing was very close to my capital in Kyoto; consequently, a more powerful, slow-moving attack force was preferred. The stack consisted of Sword, Spear and Catapults, with a few Horsemen for flanking maneuvers.

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm11/bc0470-Catapult.jpg

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm11/bc0490-China.htm

By doing just one hitpoint of damage to the defender, my odds went from 1/2 to 2/3. That means (approximately) that after six such combats, I would lose only two Swordsmen instead of three. I had better than average luck with my Catapults that day -- hitting with both volleys. Soon after, during the Siege of Canton, my Catapults helped me gain a Great Leader, Tojo. :king:

Catapults are very useful in slow-moving campaigns and against entrenched defenders. Plus, they never take damage. Unfortunately, they are not as good in fast-paced battles such as my Samurai advance against the French later in the game. Without supporting bombardment, and against French Musketeers, that was a very bloody affair.

lol why not just go around the catipult? that would make life better.

In Zachriel's screenshot, if you had a few more catapults you could probably knock Beijing's population down by 1. Or just wait until next turn to try again. That would remove the 50% defensive bonus the city gets and make it much easier to destroy all the defenders. That would be a great help in this case because capitols usually have lots of defenders.

Another thing is, catapults only cost as much to build as spearmen or archers. Plus, you don't need a barracks to build them effectively, so they're a good way for undeveloped towns to contribute to a war.

Originally posted by nullspace
In Zachriel's screenshot, if you had a few more catapults you could probably knock Beijing's population down by 1. Or just wait until next turn to try again.

Good advice! I wonder why I didn't . . . .

Oh yeah. I got two hits in a row, saw there were only two defenders and went for it!

The thing only catapults seem to be useful for against cities is knocking down the population, which does help in preventing citys from flipping back after you occupy them. Cat are however fairly effective against troops in the "open". I use them mostly for defense. Also it is nice to have a supply of them to upgrade quickly to cannon, even more so if you have Leonardo's workshop, which is one of my favorite wonders.:beer:

I build them if there's nothing left to build in a city. If every city has two spearmen and every improvement has been made in that city, and if I don't have resources to build swordsmen or horsemen. I rarely use them though. It never hurts to have them either on defense or offense, but as someone noted above, they are pretty slow to go anywhere until you get railroad. And by that time, you are probably only a few turns from artillery, so you could just as well wait.

They fail in offense to often... I use them for city defense only. The bonus shoot works like a charm, at least for me.

I would like to thank all you. For your information on the catipult. i have gained alot from each of you.. when i play you some time in the future.. im guessing my days as a ruler are number..Laf. thanks
"may you all live in interesting times"

opps miss out the { of } in the first sentence.. what a clown... wheres my red nose.:)

The problem with catapult araise when a firaxian decide to increase city defense agaisnt bombardement from 4 to 16 thrue patch ( talk about a stupid change).

Defense value agaisnt bombardement according to version


original = 4

1.16= 8

1.17-1.29= 16

So a catapult got only 4 on attack against 16 defense for city, that make no sens at all.

So i lower back the defensive value from 16 to 4, and now bonmbardement work ( unsteed of bombardement fail,bombardement fail,bomadement fail ...ect ect...)

Originally posted by Tassadar
The problem with catapult araise when a firaxian decide to increase city defense agaisnt bombardement from 4 to 16 thrue patch ( talk about a stupid change).

Defense value agaisnt bombardement according to version


original = 4

1.16= 8

1.17-1.29= 16

So a catapult got only 4 on attack against 16 defense for city, that make no sens at all.

So i lower back the defensive value from 16 to 4, and now bonmbardement work ( unsteed of bombardement fail,bombardement fail,bomadement fail ...ect ect...)

I KNEW IT! I used to attack only with one catapult and doing REAL damage. Those firaxians! :mad:

I don't feel fully prepared for ancient war unless I have at least 5 catapults. They move the same speed as most of my other units and my horseman often move and then pillage, keeping my stack of doom together. I have also had great success in knocking hitpoints off an enemy galley that has not landed troops, thus giving my gallies an excellent chance to sink a loaded galley. For early military purposes, I have a harbor town for boats, a couple of barracks towns (my most productive) for ground troops, and everybody else building catapults between improvements until my catapult goal is met.

I almost never build & use them in ancient warfare. I typically have a horse-based force, and they're just too slow, and in my experience, rarely do much to defenders fortified in cities (Zachriel has clearly had different experiences with them). I do, however, keep and try to use any that I capture from the AI. I like using them to hit units out in the open, thus increasing the survival chances of the unit I use to polish it off (usually an elite, fishing for a leader).

Later, just prior to the discovery of metallurgy, I may build some to upgrade to cannon.

-Arrian

Catapults can be tough to use offensively especially if they are not pre-positioned when war breaks out.

But they are more than a defensive unit. They can:
- weaken city defenders lessening your injuries
- pillage resources
- take out citizens making it easier for your attackers
- take a 'free hit' on those who attack your attackers

Most importantly, catas and cannon all upgrade and dont die in combat so you can amass an awesome arty division (or two) by the modern age.

hehe

man the catapult is worthless it misses like 99% of the time.

i once attacked with 3 of them and it did absolutely no good.

I think catapults come more in handy on defense when your army or city is attacked first.

THAT IS IT!!

Catapults are anchient, and anchiuent and medeival warfarse sucks, give me MODERN WARFARE!:crazyeye: