download of latest Version is here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13686)

List of Wildmana features (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=339127)

Installation requires BTS 3.19 and FFH installed (so it can copy the art files from FFH). The mod only supports english so change BTS language to english before you run it.

"known Issues":
rarely graphics from Freyas Citystyle Mod cause a CTD while loading a savegame. So far only happened when playing Amurites. In this case just install the FFH Base graphics module (http://www.filefront.com/14861581/FFH-Wild-Mana-Base-FFH-graphics.exe/). Won't break saves.

Patch 7.0 (unreleased)


Fix: Pirate Ships aren't always hostile
fixed Gold repay from Overflow
Fix: Frozen can now perform the Ascension ritual (requires Illians to complete the Draw before, Illian AI values Rituals very high)
Fix: Scion Palace will give additional Mana with the more Mana option
Fix(Base FFH): Amurite Worldspell doesn't block some Abilities like Feasting, Gift Vampirism,...
Fix(Base FFH): Spell Costs scale with Gamespeed
Fix(Base FFH): Tolerant Trait works correct for Free Buildings from Wonders
fixed a very very rare WoC related to defensive only units (like settlers) becoming enraged (might not even be an issue in Wildmana but only base FFH)
Fix: Force and Creation Mana spawns as Wildmana
Fix: adjusting points for Gameoption Advanced Start
Fix: handicap Bonus vs. Animals isn't applied for Barbarians

AI: more likely to use Catapults to bombard
AI: will value Fishing tech higher (to adjust for Kelp and the ability of Fishing Villages)
AI: much better use of Rituals (Elves will go for Pact of Nilhorn to get siege Units, Illians use their rituals, AI uses Purge the Unfaithful when attempting a religion Victory, etc.)
AI will remove Units from Groups who have no moves left when starting the turn (movement 1 units hit by Slow, etc.)
AI: fixed an issue with AI_isFinancialTrouble() triggering too often, resulting in AI disbanding units when it should not (not sure if it was a Khazad AI only issue)
AI: improved Use of Grigori Adventurers
AI: won't harm their Growth anymore by sometimes building a settler for the second city too early
AI: Kuriotates more likely to spread out Cities
AI: will start exploring Lairs later
AI: will start exploring epic Lairs a lot later
AI: Elohim won't plunder Unique Improvements
AI: smarter use of Permanent Summons
AI: will use Animals to construct Buildings (so far only relevant to FoL Tigers)
AI: Kuriotates won't use City States/Aristo Civic
AI: uses Heron Throne, Bazaar, Grigori Adventurers Guild better
AI: Better UnitPower Calculation (higher Level Units give more Power)
AI: Fallow Leader blocked from using Farms, Aristo Civic
AI: uses Barbarian Trait better
AI: Clan of Embers uses Rantine to Convert Barbarian Cities
AI: Bannor make better use of Clerics
AI Calabim: uses UNITAI_FEASTING better
AI: more likely to build culture buildings in a City where it is loosing a Culture War
AI Doviello: better use of their ability to turn slaves into melee units
AI: much much better Civic selection (Bannor go for Cottage Economy, Doviello for Slavery, etc.)
deactivated cannotDoCivic python callback
AI Doviello: better use of wolfpacks and worldspell
AI Elohim: value Buildings higher which increase purity counter
AI Grigori: Better use of Grigori Medics
AI Calabim: Moroi will use Burning Blood Spell when attacking at low odds
AI: Religion Victory Strategy enhanced. AI will build Inquisitors and use them to remove Religion from non enemy cities
Svartalfar AI: Understand to use Kidnap ability: Rangers will travel to rival cities to kidnap GP if some criterias are met (combination of attitude and power)
AI: understands how to spread Esus.
AI: War tactics of AI are less predictable. It will display WHEOOHRN only when it is the only reason for it to denial a war trade
AI won't use Assasins for city defense
AI: when giving Attack Orders will ignore Summoned Units most of the Time
AI: uses Spells only when they won't trigger a war
AI: uses Tsunami now (should make Octopus Overlords AI a lot more scary)

Merged Parts of BTS Better AI v. 082

worker AI, City Governour
AI diplomatics
speed tweak, minor tweaks
Better use of Bombard Units
Air Units(birds) can be automated
small tweaks to Stack of Doom logic

Merged Unofficial Patch 1.3

Building a City doesn't remove floodplains on the plot
small bugfixes (most you will never notice)
cityAcquiredAndKept python callback won't cause OOS anymore
Discovering Resources will scale with gamespeed

Merged Denevs Multiple Production Mod

Gameoption Flavour Start added (based on Jean Elcards FlavourMod)
GameOption Passive Training added
GameOption No Animals and Barbarians spawn in visibly Land added
GameOption Noble Houses of Erebus added
added GameOption WinAmp GUI

Elohim Purity Counter also depends on State Religion
Barbarian at the Gates Event won't effect Worldunits
Slow Spell is much easier to Resist
Bannor+: Number of available Clerics depends on Religios Techs known (same maximum 4 lategame)
Hyborem starts at Peace with Barbarians/animals and at War with Wildmana Guardians and Pirates
Feature Upgradechance (Ancient Forest), Feature Growth (Forest, Kelp) scales with Gamespeed
Infernals will spread Ashen Veil only to cities they don't immideatly raze
Updated custom mapscripts (kelp, haunted lands)
Clan Worldspell: adjusted to new Barbarian system. Number of Barbs gained capped at 20
Clan Worldspell: Chance to Convert depends on Proximity to Clan Of Embers empire. Less likely to Convert Barbarians that live far away
added Concepts Sections Emergent Trait, Module Scions of Patria Lite
Vitalize can turn Marshlands into Grassland
Infernal Worldspell is usable in Multiplayer
Spell Force III will now only give +50% defense modifier to city, no level effect (was buggy and AI doesn't understand it yet anyway)
Brigit Held gains Magic Immunity (lost when captured)
Dead people have no voting rights in the councils anymore
missing Diplo Texts for new Leaders added
New Leaders module finished (on average, every civ gets 3 new leaders now)
Bison Resource added (+1 health, +1health with smokehouse, +1happy with tavern)
Dwarves use Bisons now as mounts, not pigs anymore
NationalWonder Cathedral added. Requires Theocracy civic. +1 hammer to all priests.
Aquae Sucellus: cost reduced to 450, gives 1 Health to all cities (and another one to cities on same continent)
Celestial Compass, Hall of Kings, Temple of Temporance, Theatre of Dreams Bonus adjusted, Tower of Eyes Cost reduced
Strategic Resource Stone added (gives discounts on some Worldwonders)
Worldwonder The Senate added. Requires republic civic. adds 2 free specialist in the city that build it and a free Courthouse in every city
Worldwonder Arrow Tower added. Requires Archery. increases city defense, gives free archery range in every city. +1 GPP Commander. Increases Global Training of Archers (with Gameoption Passive Training selected)
Worldwonder University added. Requires Scholarship civic. +50% research, free elder council in every city
Worldwonder Caminus Aureus added. Requires Mithril Working. Gives 1 free mithril resource
Worldwonder Tree of Succellus added. Requires Animal Handling. Gives 1 free Nature resource. Changes all Forest and Jungle close to the city to Ancient Forest
Worldwonder Engineering Academy added. Requires Engineering Tech. Gives Engineering Trait
added Resource Silver (+1 happy with Temple of Kilmorph), Amber (revealed by Iron Working), Tea (revealed by Trade, gives +1 happy with Inn), Spices (revealed by taxation, gives +1happy), Salt (revealed by Priesthood)



Patch 6.51 (doesn't break saves)

fixed an issue with XML loading
Fix: Corlindale is Elohim only
Fix: Only Illians and Frozen have access to Winter Tech


Patch 6.5 (breaks saves)

Module Elohim+ added
Module: Frozen Civ added (by TC01)
Gameoption Tamed Wilderness added
Gameoption: Challenge- Pirates added. Greatly reduced chance to spawn Pirates without the Gameoption.
Random barb/animal spawns will start later
number of maximum spawns from lairs reduced

AI will leave Units behind in newly conquered Cities if they have some to spare
AI: will heal immortal units upon rebirth
AI Leaders with Fallow trait blocked from using Agrar civic
AI Amurites, Sheaim value Catacomb Wonder higher, Infernals won't build it
AI: Calabim won't feast their cities to tiny size
AI: Handicap bonus against Animals adjusted (same as vs. Barbs)
AI: Invisible Animals a lot less likely to enter rage

fix: ancient towers, etc. will spawn on map again
fix: gold trading
Fix: display of messages when exploring dungeons/ruins (and some other messages that were shown in black)
Fix: Scion Worldspell can be cast only once per game
than against barbs)

channeling1 is only needed to learn tier1 spells, not to cast them
Govannon doesn't teach channeling1 anymore
workshops have no Food yield prereq anymore (so they can be build in snow or desert)
All Undead Casters can use Corpus magic (not just Scions)
Orthus, Tumtum start with 2 first strikes, will make better use of their Hero Promotion
Orthus spawns in a Goblin Fort, if there is one on the Map.

earlier patchnotes

Patch 6.4 (break saves)

fixed an issue with wrong prereqciv for second Kuriotates Hero
Fixed an issue with Barbarians from Lairs spawning with UNITAI_ANIMAL sometimes (Hill Giants for example)
Event Pirate Invasion: set RandomGold to 0
art reference for "mark of the Spider" Promotion fixed
updated to Denevs FFHBUG Sevopedia v 0.7 (fixes some txt keys in the Sevopedia)
updated Help for Scions Keep
updated Doviello+ module
javellin thrower :hammers: cost lowered to 60 (same as archers which they replace)
AI will launch counter-attacks on cities in War even if not in conquest mode
AI is more willing to give in to a demand to change their favorite religion (it's still blocked when they value their religion very high)
AI Barbs and Animals will heal more often


Patch 6.3 (break saves)

fixed a WoC related to AI using Summons
fixed an issue of elephants becoming weaker as time goes on
fixed issues with Korinna and Alcinus Keep (Scions)
added Help Text for Scions World Spell
fixed an issue of BonusAptitude not showing in the Civilopedia
fixed an issue AI adepts not building mana nodes
improved AI understanding of new barbs and Animals challenge
Animals will trigger the "Enemy has been spotted near City X" alerts
BarBarians blocked from attacking Wildmana Guardians (they will still battle the Minions)
Random Barbarian/Animal Spawns won't be outcrowded by Lair creatures anymore
Erebian Sea

Terrain Feature Kelp added, growth on Coastal water, +1 food and commerce (merged from Orbis)
All Civs except Lanun can build Fishing Villages (a weak version of the Lanun pirate Coves)
New BarBarian Civilization: Pirates of the Erebian Sea
Pirates start at Peace with the Lanun
Hidden Nationality Ships will show the Pirate Flag, not a Barbarian Flag
Lanun Improvement Pirate Port spawns Pirate Ships

Merged from Tweak Mod

Demagogs from Crusade start with metal promotions
Genesis Ritual removes Hell Terrain
Bannor have UB Cathedral (replaces Pagan Temple, has Special Ability in Conquest)
Seven Pines always spawns in Forest grassland
Building Temple of the Hand (Illian UB Pagan temple) spawns Blizzards
Genesis Ritual works Different for Illians (turns tiles to Snow, not grassland)
Finishing Samhain gives Illian Cities some happiness
Illian Project the Deepeening has greater Effects
Manes and Angels do not spawn from fallen Grigori Units
Events when Order and Veil or Empyrean and Esus coexist in a city
Calabim Vampires Feast from Cities they raze
Planar Gates Spawn Chance scales with Gamespeed
Mimics blocked from stealing rusted promotion
Basiums First City starts with a few free buildings
Reading the Grimoire now has many more possible results
FoL holy building increases chance of Treants spawning on the defense
Arcane trait gives +5% research

Module Bannor Plus included
Module Doviello Plus included
Basic Naval AI

AI builds Naval Defense
AI settles other islands/continents once it has fully settled its main continent



Patch 6.2 (breaks saves)

Barbarian access to nightmare removed
fixed the "Frostling Invasion" more different types of Barbarians will spawn (warriors, beastmen, mercenaries later, etc.)
Barbarian and Animal strength increase balanced for Difficulty level
Muris Clan Goblin Event (-1 :food:) removed
Polar Bears can only spawn on snow terrain
more Animals merged from Rife, strong Animals will only spawn later in the game
fixed issue with unrestricted Leader/end of winter gameoption



Patch 6.1 (break save games)

Fixes issues with hidden gameoptions selected
Fixed XP gain from many barbarian/animal units
Culture near an unowned Plot will greatly reduce chance for barbarians to spawn
Lairs spawn with more defenders, defenders strength increases later in the game
Fixed diplomatic modifier from Somnium

uncomplete changelog Version 6.0

FIX: events aren't loaded modular for now (could cause bugs/OOS)
FIX: AI tech trading
FIX: Scoreboard shows War Status
fixed an display issue with manors/pillar of chains
FIX: Pieces of Barnaxus will be removed from the game if they are the only unit from Luchuirp and they can't be permanently destroyed by HN units.
FIX: possible CTD when declaring war fixed (was related to the CAR mod merge)
FIX: some rarely happening WoCs (waiting of civilization loops)
FIX: rewrote some basic functions to prevent OOS
AI: Patrols improved
AI: Summon use improved
AI: Prefers to Heal in City if it is close
AI: starting settler now moves distance depending of world size
AI: Barbarian Cities gain access to strategic resources later in the game
AI: Elohim/Malakim also go into Conquest Mode
AI: leaders will pressure other leaders only into their favorite Religion
AI: favorite Religion and Alignments have a much larger impact on AI diplomatics
AI: able to give help to other friendly AI (same way it sometimes gives help to friendly human player)
AI: able to make demand maps/gold/techs from hostile AIs (same way it sometimes makes demands to human player)
AI: in ConquestMode more likely to ask someone else to join its war
AI: in ConquestMode more likely to join someone else war
AI: will ask to stop trade less often
AI: Altar Victory Strategy added
AI: Culture Victory Strategy added
AI: Religion Victory Strategy added
AI: Production choosing improved
AI: Conquest Logic improved
AI: fixed a few issues with promotion selection
AI: improved use of Equipment (orthus axe, spellbooks)
AI: Better tactics to deal with Barbarians
AI: Lots of leader related improvements
AI: Prophecy of Ragnorok blocked for non evil AI
AI: Defense of Cities adjusted to stronger animals/barbarians
AI: grouppower function added to improve battle calculations
AI: if attacks odds aren't very high, AI will prefere to attack with low lvl units to soften up defenders for it's high level units
AI: fixed problem that could cause conqueststacks to retreat to cities too often
AI: will use conquest civic a bit smarter
AI: better AI gold management

allows AI to save up gold used only to hurry victory buildings
allows AI to save up gold used only for trading
allows AI to save up gold used only for production hurry (or better said this allows the AI not to waste their gold on production hurry)
allows AI to save up gold used only as a reserve (Khazad, events)



Gameplay change:impossible now to hurry victory buildings
Gameoption: can hurry victory buildings added
Gameplay change:Conscripting has a small chance to create several units (since units without XP are at a greater disatvantage in FFH I think the mechanism needed a boost)
Animals are now at war with Barbarians
Animals have a small chance to enter a Rage
Animals/Wild Mana Guardians strength increases later in the game.
more dens for Animals (from Orbis)
SPEEDBOOST: Gameoption Barbarian World
lairs always start with a defender
Improved Placement of Unique Improvements
Gameoption Influence Driven War improved
Maximum trade routes in City increased from 8 to 12
ADDON (or maybe its a FIX?): CommerceChangeDoubleTime mechanic from BTS got to working again.
gameplay change:UnhappyProduction (used by manors and pillar of chains). Bonus to :hammers: from happy population reduced by 50-66%, bonus from unhappy population increased by 50%
high level units are immune to many bad effects from lairs
balseraph puppet spells can be set to autocasting

merged Hated Civic Concept (from Operas LENA mod)
merged better Blizzards (by TC01) and rebalanced a bit
merged a few Animals from FF+
merged militiamod (made by Tholal)

module tweaked buildings added (small tweaks to buildings to make build selection more interesting. Granaries/Smokehouses now allow cities to export small amounts of food to another city)
module tweaked Civics added (some civics got a small boost (republic, consumption,...), agrarism a small nerf. Most civics unchanged). Idea is to make civic selection more interesting.
module Balseraph+ (a few leaders added with unique traits. Courtesan UU requires halls of mirrors and has shapechanging abilty, taunt spell should work more stable)
module Scions lite added (will need quite a bit of work since FF has a lot of custom functions I do not use). Civliziation is set to human only so they won't show up as AI.

minor AI issues

terraforming AI could be improved for sanctify http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8689667&postcount=390
AI too likely to use spells causing war? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8693046&postcount=401

merged a few Animals from RifE



Fixed. ;)

here are a whole bunch of options selected, but not visible on the options screen. Looking through my settings, they included, no animals, no lairs, no Octopus Overlords, No council of esus.


Edit: Nm, had to start a game to wipe all opions, and it was oK.

However, this time I chose Sidar instead of Sandolphon, (I kind of wanted Jundal back), and I got Garrim Gyr as a leader. So now it would seem, if I pick an enemy civ, I might get something like Os-Gobella leading elohim.... :/

Now choosing a civ/leader has become really screwy. I know I am choosing Sandalphon, ( I quadruple checked this time) but I am just getting random civs. First I got Amurite led by Dain, this time I got Balseraph led by the illusionist.

Furthermore, I specificied I wanted Perpentach and Os-Gabella in the game, opened world builder, and they were no-shows.

I uninstalled/reinstalled, no luck. Civ choice worked the first two times, so I think there was a setting that was triggered when I did the above post, (Play now, in post 5, to wipe settings)

to somewhat fix it, I had to choose both Sandalphon and Sidar in player set up.

Barbarian spawning mechanism seems wacky. I'm constantly having barbarians spawn in my line of sight or even right next to my borders. Is spawning not restricted to fog of war anymore?

Barbarian spawning mechanism seems wacky. I'm constantly having barbarians spawn in my line of sight or even right next to my borders. Is spawning not restricted to fog of war anymore?

That's how they spawn in Fall Further. :/ Kind of annoying... but free Xp.. :P

Personally, I think it's a better system than allowing a single hawk to pacify a continent. ;)

And it's actually the system used in ALL major modmods now, though it came from FF... It's in Oribs, RifE, and now Wild Mana. ;)

I uninstalled/reinstalled, no luck. Civ choice worked the first two times, so I think there was a setting that was triggered when I did the above post, (Play now, in post 5, to wipe settings)

I think it was the LEAD_ANY_CIV gameoption. I load up a patch to fix this.

And it's actually the system used in ALL major modmods now, though it came from FF... It's in Oribs, RifE, and now Wild Mana. ;)

The only thing Wild Mana spawn system has in common with FF is that Animals and Barbs are seperated Civs.

Gonna change it so that Barbs will spawn a lot less near culture boarders.

A divided soul with animal mastery did not capture a lion pride when it was attacked. However, it did capture a regular lion when it attacked it.

The only thing Wild Mana spawn system has in common with FF is that Animals and Barbs are seperated Civs.

Gonna change it so that Barbs will spawn a lot less near culture boarders.

Yeah, I worded that poorly. I meant more that the basic mechanic (Barbs can spawn even if you can see the plot, so long as it's unowned) was in all the major modmods. Your system was rewritten from scratch... And if you don't mind, I'd like to steal it for RifE. :lol:

Some lairs don't seem to be defended (barb lairs, not beast ones). Whilst this can be the case when the defender is killed, and not replaced by a new spawn, I have seen a lizardman 'pick up' a skeleton whilst travelling through, so that is not the only way it can happen.

Bug report: apparently WM 6.0 no longer works with Ozzy's unofficial map of Erebus (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236321) -- it CTD's the instant I try to start a new game on the pre-made Erebus map. I was looking forward to an Erebus-conquering session with the new WM 6.0 changes, but I guess I'll have to settle for random maps for now.

this mod has strange on again off again bugs. Sometimes XP works properly, sometimes not. Right now, my bounty hunter promotions do not seem to be giving me money for kills.

edit: nm, experience is not working.

Orthus is guarding lairs... And that was even with a Goblin already guarding the goblin fort.

Also, I've gained a few chanters from lairs, and none of them are capable of using escape.

... escape.

Escape is an Amerite(Sp) only spell in base FFH, unless sephi changed it here it should be the same...

You have two things going on with lairs:

1) lairs respawn after they're destroyed
2) high-level units are immune to negative lair effects

Individually these changes are awesome, but the combination of the two means that heroes or other highly promoted units can too easily farm awesome things from unsettled areas with lots of lairs. Maybe you could reduce this by slowing down the rate of lair respawning? I had a lair respawn two turns after I destroyed it (getting a zealot); the second time I explored it, I got a great commander.

In this file, if you open it, there is a hero divided soul in the SW corner. Next turn, he should be able to beat a Lion if you attack the lion.

However, he will not get the bounty. the bounty works sometimes, sometimes it does not. It was working for this unit earlier in the game.

Started a game yesterday. Played through 4 uneventful sessions flawlessly. Tonight when trying to open my game though it CtD. I tried loading my auto_saves but same result. Any help troubleshooting this would be wonderful.

That aside, two other things of note.

1. Orthus was eaten by animals the same turn he spawned. Someone else mentioned he went to a fort and just sat there. Maybe the ideal option would be to make him spawn from either a barb city or goblin fort, but give him a held for 50 turns type starting curse (similar to the bad food event). That way he would gain enough power to survive the animals and could be set to go on a further rampage from this point on.

2. Somnium no longer impacts relations with the AI. I was sad to see this because I enjoy the roleplaying aspect of it.

Started a game yesterday. Played through 4 uneventful sessions flawlessly. Tonight when trying to open my game though it CtD. I tried loading my auto_saves but same result. Any help troubleshooting this would be wonderful.


I have made a Module (http://www.filefront.com/14861581/FFH-Wild-Mana-Base-FFH-graphics.exe/) that reverts changes from Freyas Citystyle Mod. So far I have seen this kind of problem only when playing Amurites. Good to know I am not the only one with this problem. Will add it to "known issues"

1. Orthus and all other Barbarians Heroes do need some tweaks.
2. What is the diplomatic relation change from Somnium? -2,2 ?
3. bountyhunter doesn't affect animals. Base FFH mechanic
4. Lairs indeed need to become scarier later in the game

I just got the "elven immigrants" event, but some of the options lacked the info you get from mouseover.

I also see frostlings spawning in the wild, problem is they're not spawning only from ice but also from grasslands. the Illians are not in the game so it can't be Samhain ( unless Samhain is bugged and can be built by other civs? )

2. What is the diplomatic relation change from Somnium? -2,2 ?


It depend by the overall relation between you and your opponent.
If I remind correct, it was something like this:

Friendly -4,4
Pleased -2,2
Cautious -1,1
Annoyed -2,2
Furious -4,4

Escape is an Amerite(Sp) only spell in base FFH, unless sephi changed it here it should be the same...

And you'll notice by the fact that I said I got chanters, rather than assassins, that I am the Amurites! :p



Okay, got a zealot popped up from a lair, went to my capital to found OO, and it gave me 4 :culture: rather than spreading OO. If this is intended to stop founding a religion that way (if so, BOOoooo!!! :p), then I think it would be better to just grey out the option!

Edit - checked in WB - it is now the OO holy city, but doesn't... have the OO religion in the city. :lol:

Edit2: Empyrean spread as normal. Will find out about Order and Fellowship of Leaves soon... :P

Speaking of which, it might be worth making acolytes more unusual to get, now that there are far more lairs to get them from. Else all the religions will be founded before they've been researched.

I like the experience fix on animals: it now takes some careful play to get an animal-capturing super scout, instead of being the no-brainer it was before. Not sure how I feel about all the early barb wolf riders: I lost a worker to one of them sweeping in out of the fog.

I'm playing Faeryl, and it seems that all of my warriors and scouts are born with 0-1 first strikes. I don't remember that being the case in the past.

Entropy guardians giving withered to nearby units seems too severe. The nodes near my starting position can have a huge impact, negative or positive.

downloading 6.1 right now... what about the complete changelog? I'm curious to read it ;)

The usual "Bugpatch" after a major patch is linked in the first post.

Fixes issues with hidden gameoptions selected
Fixed XP gain from many barbarian/animal units
Culture near an unowned Plot will greatly reduce chance for barbarians to spawn
Lairs spawn with more defenders, defenders strength increases later in the game
Fixed diplomatic modifier from Somnium

pretty sure the OO issue is related to No Overlord Octopus Gameoption activated (won't happen again in 6.1)

Faeryls Raider Trait gives a firststrikechance just like in FFH

I don't have a complete changelog Gekko, else I would have posted it.

I know, but for the last couple days there was a "complete changelog soon to follow" on the first page, which made me curious about it :p

no, it was a complete feature list and is now available. Well, might still miss a few features. Since quite a bit has been merged from Wildmana into FFH I think it is more interesting to see the difference to FFH rather than to version 5.0

right. well the time has come to play a full game with it, probably tomorrow evening or something. as usual, thanx for all the time and effort you've put into WM ;)

one last question: does 6.1 already include the "better AI promotion selection" system you mentioned in its specific thread?

I'm also curious to know if all the feedback you got from the FFH 0.41 H/J thread has been useful or if the problems everyone was complaining about were already fixed long ago :lol:

the promotion system was already included in the beta. The biggest effect it has right now is to move promotion selection back into the DLL again. I had encountered a bad slowdown in some games because of these python callbacks so priority was speed. It's quite a mystery when python will slow down and when not.

The feedback thread is for FFH, not Wildmana ;). I personally prefere a "report specific ai behavior" thread like in Better BTS AI forum. Some of the issues in the feedback thread are also relevant to Wildmana but were indeed already fixed. I don't think there is a single issue "everyone was complaining about". Unless you define 5 people as everyone.

well, everyone who complained at least :p and as FFH as the thread was, all the stuff people were talking about is from Wild Mana ;)

now let's see how long it will take till all the new AI goodies in version 6 get merged into FFH... so that people can start complaining about the naval AI :lol:

edit: oh yeah, one last question before I forget ( I asked this already but got no answer ) . Aggressive AI gameoption is back, do we know what it does? I mean is the worst case scenario "doesn't do anything at all" or is it more like "use it at your own risk, it may cause weird AI behaviour" ? :D

I like the barbs getting stronger in the lategame. Animals getting strength increases is good; barbs getting strategic resources is excellent.

However: should Nightmare be a strategic resource the barbs are given when there's no hell terrain? I don't think they should get the hell terrain resources at all, and certainly not when Hybo isn't even in the game yet. Will they also eventually get Sheut stones? Also: why do barbarian wolf riders get the nightmare promotion? They ride wolves by definition!

Gekko;8613821']now let's see how long it will take till all the new AI goodies in version 6 get merged into FFH... so that people can start complaining about the naval AI :lol:

I don't think another merge is planned. or do you volunteer XD. Aggressive AI shouldn't cause weird behavior, the AI won't send settlers without protection away or other crazy things.

How is Nightmare created? Only by hell terrain spreading to plots with horses? In that case denying barbarians access to Nightmare is easy

Hmmm... no worldbuilder in 6.1?

yeah, nightmares are created by hell terrain spreading to a tile with horses on it.

I don't think Kael will miss the chance to improve FFH AI even more, that wouldn't make sense ;)

about Aggressive AI, I was actually thinking of something more like "AI reverts to the BTS diplomatical behaviour instead of the new one" :lol:

Hmmm... no worldbuilder in 6.1?

I have WB.

Hmmm... no worldbuilder in 6.1?
there is a gameoption that disables WB. Did you start the game with 6.0 and then updated to 6.1?

there is a gameoption that disables WB. Did you start the game with 6.0 and then updated to 6.1?
No, I started a new game. I did install 6.1 over the top of 6.0. After thinking that was the problem, I uninstalled and reinstalled 6.1. Maybe I need to delete the whole folder and start over.

I removed the force loading gameoptions from XML so that the game will remember what gameoption settings you used last time.

check your gameoptions when you start a new game (F8) If they are different from what you want you can solve this by starting a PLAY NOW game (clears gameoption cache.)

Weird cause it works without problems for me

Hey, installed 6.1, working fine for me.
Playing desert Malakim, some quick balance comments :

- Giants are animal units ? As a consequence they farm barb lairs and end up combat 5 @ turn 100. bit tough to stop when they become enraged and you only have warriors...

- Playing with advanced terraforming, when I spring riverside desert hills I get... flood plain hills (quite an oxymoron) is it intended ?

- Interestingly, animals keep me safe from invading barbs, and barbs keep aggressive animals too fed to attack my city. Funny consequence is that it's too scary outside my capital to expand...

- Giants are animal units ? As a consequence they farm barb lairs and end up combat 5 @ turn 100. bit tough to stop when they become enraged and you only have warriors...


But they stop being enraged after they attack once. So you lose one warrior, and then the giant wanders away.


- Interestingly, animals keep me safe from invading barbs, and barbs keep aggressive animals too fed to attack my city. Funny consequence is that it's too scary outside my capital to expand...

I think the balance between barbs and animals is very good right now. On the Erebus map, I'm seeing valleys of animal-dominated territory and valleys of barb-dominated territory (depending on whether a given valley has more barb lairs or more animal lairs spawn). It really makes it a challenge to expand, so that the whole map isn't full by turn 250. It also gives a great sense of a living world, where lots of bloodshed would be happening even if you weren't around.

I had one suggestion regarding Acheron. I think it would be really cool if proximity to Acheron's city changed barb behavior slightly (since it is sort of a barb "capitol"). For example, what if all barbarians that spawned within, say, 10 tiles of Acheron's city were coded to walk to the city FIRST, and then attack you when they amassed a largeish stack in the city? You'd then see constant barb SoDs coming from that city, all buffed with Enchanted Blade. This would make Acheron's city a true, active threat that would have to be dealt with or at least contained ASAP, rather than just a passive roadblock that you can ignore on your borders for hundreds of turns, as it is now.

I think you may have went overboard on strengthening barb/animals throughout the game. 7 str goblins is kinda ridiculous along with 10 str skels. this was before I got iron working.

I feel like I'm pigeonholed in how I play due to barb changes.

Still getting random leaders when choosing a civ, as palyer or AI, as opposed to random leaders of the civ. (ie Einon or Ethne for Elohim)

Thanks for the reversion of graphics Sephi. What you thought the problem is turned out exactly right. Now you have outside proof of the bug.

I removed the force loading gameoptions from XML so that the game will remember what gameoption settings you used last time.

check your gameoptions when you start a new game (F8) If they are different from what you want you can solve this by starting a PLAY NOW game (clears gameoption cache.)

Weird cause it works without problems for me
"Play Now" fixed things :confused:

I just had some frostlings spawn.... inside my empty capital, about turn 10. Game over.

Bug report: some XP problems remain in Wild Mana 6.1 for heroes. See the two attached save files. Playing as the Ljos, I got Gilden Silveric to 100 XP (and he needs 101 for his next promotion). I fought a strength 7 +100% hill giant (83% chance of victory listed) and won, but Gilden got no XP from the battle. Reloaded the save, fought the battle again, won again, still no XP for Gilden. I made a save after the battle (with Gilden still at 100 XP) so you can investigate the before and after states if you need to.

Note that Gilden was getting at least 1 XP (and occasionally more) from every single battle before he hit 100 XP. I figure the "stop giving free XP to heroes after they reach 100 XP" code is somehow denying them XP from battle as well, which it shouldn't do.

That's how exp works in base ffh as well. You can't farm exp past 100 from barbarians without the help of a great commander.

That's how exp works in base ffh as well. You can't farm exp past 100 from barbarians without the help of a great commander.

So it's working as intended, then? Good to know. I've got the Sheaim on my western border just begging to be wiped out early before they get truly nasty... I think it's time to send Gilden over there to play. :mischief:

I just had some frostlings spawn.... inside my empty capital, about turn 10. Game over.

I've seen frostlings spawn around turn 20, normal speed, three games in a row, and aim for my city.
They spawn en masse at the same time than all the animals start to appear.

I's a funny feeling all this barb activity, and a real rush to get tier2 units before they all become strength 6 :crazyeye: Quite a challenge at first, but I'm getting addicted.

I haven't seen a single barb nor animal before turn 20 (normal speed). I'm guessing the only way for a barb to appear is for the AI to pop a warrior from a hut, then for that warrior to pop a barb from another hut. While it's nice to have a little time to set up for the onslaught, it makes it pretty easy to send out both starting units exploring and build a worker first in the capital. I just make sure I have everybody back home by turn 20.

As with most fixed patterns, this one is exploitable by the human player.

I don't think that's a problem. Having to spend the first 100-150 turns doing nothing but building warriors is a problem.

I don't think that's a problem. Having to spend the first 100-150 turns doing nothing but building warriors is a problem.

... or you can play as the Svartalfar, produce some animal-capturing scouts, and use captured animals to fight off the other barbs. Kind of a judo move: using the enemy's strength against him :D.

A scout, a stag, and a Great Prophet were all standing on a barrow... (Sounds like the start of a joke, doesn't it?)

....

Anyway, the scout explored the lair - annoyingly I can't remember whether the lair was destroyed or not, I think it was - and the next turn three skeletons popped up on a lair on the same square. The Scout and stag were shoved off to a different square. The Great Prophet, however, disappeared.

1.) 10 strength skels is definetly not intended. Once the first civ reaches iron working barrows shouldn't spawn anymore on the map at all.
2.) I think the turn 10 Frostling came from an event
3.) The Lair spawn issue is fixed
4.) difficulty level will have a bigger impact on how many barbs/animals spawn

1.) 10 strength skels is definetly not intended. Once the first civ reaches iron working barrows shouldn't spawn anymore on the map at all.
2.) I think the turn 10 Frostling came from an event
3.) The Lair spawn issue is fixed
4.) difficulty level will have a bigger impact on how many barbs/animals spawn

it was an event. It was the frostling are playing (end of winter), but it just happened to choose the tile my city was on, so they spawned in my city.

ANd I kind of agree, the 7str goblins is a little radical. I'm not sure why you would have them go from 3 to 7 like that. it's a huge jump, although it seems there are still some 3str running around. I mean, it would be cool if they were supposed to be somewhat rare, like 1 of every 5 goblins was str7, but it seems the majority of them are. Same with skeletons.... although if you were going to for that, ti would be more fun to simply have different barbarians, (like calling them goblin captain, or skeleton captain)

umh, why would lairs stop spawning after somebody researches IW?

not all lairs. only barrows. The giant fortress for example only spawns once one civ researches trade so you don't get overrun by giants early

Captured a stag w/ enchanted blade, and it lost the enchanted blade promotion.

... or you can play as the Svartalfar, produce some animal-capturing scouts, and use captured animals to fight off the other barbs. Kind of a judo move: using the enemy's strength against him :D.

What if I don't want to play as them?

I think the increases in str should be graduaal 3 to 4 to 5 perhaps, that's it.

By the time you have iron working barbs shouldn't be an issue without an event anyways.

I think Sephi said its a bug... maybe more like design oversight, since he said barrows don't spawn anymore after IW, I guess, whatever power up mechanic he is using, he assumed that with no more barrows, no more spawning skels, although in my (now broke) game, there are still tons of barrows left. The 7 str goblins have knocked everything out of whack now, though. Animals do not stand a chance against them, and there is a small area on my map with 4 goblin forts... and the game just exploded in 7str goblins. I could beat them with orc slaying axemen, but the odds were not that great considering it was level 3 or level 4 units vs brand new spawns... :sad: Worse, I am the most advanced of the civs I know, so I don;t see how the AI, with bronzeless axemen, can withstand the soon to be onslaught.

That said, I still find the spawn near border mechanics annoying as hell. You got a worker building a road, then boom... 2 enemies appear next door. Or worse, you move a worker outside your borders, be prepared to lose it to a giant spider that wasn't there 3 turns ago.

And I could fight off the 7str goblins, if animals retained their str. But they drop back to 4 or even 2 as wolfs, from six, once you capture them. I am OK with this... if the skeleton power boost and goblin power boost is reduced...

...but bringing Orc-slaying back kicks ass :devil:


By the time you have iron working barbs shouldn't be an issue without an event anyways.

This is wild mana.... and I think it's great... and I think the point IS to make barbs and animals and gaurdians ALWAYS an issue. Sephi said tweaked the AI a bit, to have various intelligences, but from what I have seen, they are all just suicidal again... attacking cities that they can't possibly take.

Barbarians not build in a city will get a strength increase now every X turns if their strength is below a target value. X scales with gamespeed and difficulty, it's about 110 for emporer/normal and 140 for noble/normal.

So at turn 300 on noble, if there are still skeletons around they would should have a strength of 4+1death. Barbarian cities will probably already build chariots with copper.

not all lairs. only barrows. The giant fortress for example only spawns once one civ researches trade so you don't get overrun by giants early

wouldn't it be a lot more fun to have them spawn more powerful undead as the game goes on instead? like skellies-> spectres -> diseased corpses -> wraiths or something, then you can do the same with ruins : lizardmen hunters -> rangers -> beastmasters ;)

BUG, 6.1: unrestricted leader is not working.

Playing 6.1 as Ophelia of the Scions of Patria. Korinna is listed as the hero, as she is for when the Risen Emperor is leader, but doesn't spawn on the first turn. She does spawn for the Risen Emperor, so this exclusion may be intentional; I can't say I've felt particularly penalised by her absence, and I'm yet to venture far enough down the tech tree to see if the Risen Emp is Ophelia's hero and the problem is just a cosmetic civopedia issue.

Also, Alcinus doesn't have an option to build his Thaumaturgist tower, so Ophelia's Scions get stuck with just the starting Death mana for the longest time; the icon simply doesn't appear when he is selected, regardless of what city he's currently positioned within.

One of the BUG hints merely says:

BUG_TXT_KEY_21.

Or something similar - I can't remember - it was an hour ago... you get the point tho' :p

Also, is charmed meant to prevent you from exploring barrows?

Patch 6.2 (breaks saves) (http://www.filefront.com/14878219/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.2.exe/)

Barbarian access to nightmare removed
fixed the "Frostling Invasion" more different types of Barbarians will spawn (warriors, beastmen, mercenaries later, etc.)
Barbarian and Animal strength increase balanced for Difficulty level and reduced in general
Muris Clan Goblin Event (-1 :food:) removed
Polar Bears can only spawn on snow terrain
more Animals merged from Rife, strong Animals will only spawn later in the game
fixed issue with unrestricted Leader/end of winter gameoption

awesome :D

Playing 6.1 as Ophelia of the Scions of Patria. Korinna is listed as the hero, as she is for when the Risen Emperor is leader, but doesn't spawn on the first turn. She does spawn for the Risen Emperor, so this exclusion may be intentional; I can't say I've felt particularly penalised by her absence, and I'm yet to venture far enough down the tech tree to see if the Risen Emp is Ophelia's hero and the problem is just a cosmetic civopedia issue.

Also, Alcinus doesn't have an option to build his Thaumaturgist tower, so Ophelia's Scions get stuck with just the starting Death mana for the longest time; the icon simply doesn't appear when he is selected, regardless of what city he's currently positioned within.

Wait, Ophelia is in Wild Mana too? Didn't know that. :goodjob:

As for her gaining Korinna... In RifE she does, so I'm going to assume she's intended too. It's a small bug; Just need to clone the EventTrigger from the Emperor that spawns Korinna, and change the leader prereq.

Patch 6.2 (breaks saves) (http://www.filefront.com/14878219/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.2.exe/)

Barbarian access to nightmare removed
fixed the "Frostling Invasion" more different types of Barbarians will spawn (warriors, beastmen, mercenaries later, etc.)
Barbarian and Animal strength increase balanced for Difficulty level and reduced in general
Muris Clan Goblin Event (-1 :food:) removed
Polar Bears can only spawn on snow terrain
more Animals merged from Rife, strong Animals will only spawn later in the game
fixed issue with unrestricted Leader/end of winter gameoption


Glad to see more animals are being merged. :goodjob:

looks like the barbs have been tamed a bit.

Bug: All elephants get beat down from 8 to 6 when the time for powering up happens.

The AI is extremely defensive pack happy in version 6.0 and 6.1. Makes the game very difficult for warlords to make a move. Fun for the player seeking a challenge but I think it's keeping the AI even more afraid to declare war than before.

Sabertooth can build a lion pen, not sure if this is intended, maybe they should be able to build both that and the tiger pen, or maybe just the tiger pen?

Hyena's 10% chance to create another hyena seems way low since they are only strength 3.

adding the wyrms from RIFE would be awesome ;)

it's great to see a couple dinosaurs in, but there's a huge difference between the Allosaur and Lizard... maybe you could rename the Lizard to Velociraptor ( Raptors were very small so not very powerful ) , and add a smaller, faster version of the allosaur called Deynonichus ( those would be the velociraptors from jurassic park basically, roughly as big as a human and way more dangerous than the "true" velociraptor ) , and rename the Allosaur to Tyrannosaurus Rex just for epicness :lol:

Patch 6.2 (breaks saves) (http://www.filefront.com/14878219/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.2.exe/)



You may want to update the first page with the (breaks saves) detaill. Thought I'd found a bug until I noticed this post.
Thanks for the update!

In RifE sabertooths can build the lion pen AND the tiger pen. ;)

Got a strange WoC on my 6.0 with reverted graphics game. I call it strange because I wasn't completely locked up and could scroll around the map and even save the game during the WoC. Will reload a previous autosave save later tonight and see if the problem repeats or was a 1 time event.

Gotta love this game though. Lanun permanent allied with dwarves. Summer and Winter Elves have overcome their differences. Even the Amurites and Illians have learned that by joining forces nothing would stand in their way.

Comment: The dragons challenge with dragons randomly spawning throughout your empire is quite tricky and a good balance to force the larger civs to work harder on defending their land throughout their massive empire. Really pushes your economy to the test the closer you come to a domination victory.

Here is the 6.2 DLL with a fix for the WoC. You need to copy it into the assets folder. I suggest you make a backup of the old dll and use it if you run into other issues because the 6.2 DLL isn't 100% compatible.

Patch 6.2 (breaks saves) (http://www.filefront.com/14878219/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.2.exe/)
Muris Clan Goblin Event (-1 :food:) removed


I hated this event, but I don't think you should take out *all* the negative events. I'd be happy if this event stayed, but there was a third option, "Pay the goblins to take their waste elsewhere," costing ~20 gold.

http://www.2shared.com/file/9037391/c0840d1b/py2.html

self-explanatory...

Comment: The dragons challenge with dragons randomly spawning throughout your empire is quite tricky and a good balance to force the larger civs to work harder on defending their land throughout their massive empire. Really pushes your economy to the test the closer you come to a domination victory.

Frustratingly, the spawning dragons don't trigger the "Enemy has been spotted near City X" alerts (is this because they're beasts?). Makes it very difficult to defend against them in a large empire when you don't realize they're there until they kill your defenders.

Frustratingly, the spawning dragons don't trigger the "Enemy has been spotted near City X" alerts (is this because they're beasts?).

good point. message will be displayed next version

You know what's frustrating... the powerful Barbs/Skellies are whooping up on the wild mana guardians and beating me to the spell books.

Sephi, you may be interested in this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8627391&postcount=680

Rather than flatout block fort construction for automated workers, I've added a new Player Option (As in, in-game option. "Leave Old Improvements", etc), that blocks automated construction of all <bOutsideBorders> improvements. Since it's only construction by units, the ONLY improvement it conflicts with is Pirate Harbors... Which you generally don't want your workers building on their own anyway.

It only applies to the current player... You could probably write it to apply to AI players as well, but I didn't see much point. They don't spam forts in RifE (too much else to build), and when they do build one it's useful.

Idk if this is being addressed yet but in that game I've been playing for ages it feels like, the AI never takes advantage of their mana nodes. They will send an adept to squat on it but they never actually do anything with it. It's a pain having to send my own workers and adepts to my allied Illian's outlands just to build mana nodes for them so I can steal it in trade.

Sephi, you may be interested in this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8627391&postcount=680

thanks for posting, but I rather keep it the way it is.

You know what's frustrating... the powerful Barbs/Skellies are whooping up on the wild mana guardians and beating me to the spell books.

I once saw a named Ogre bashing a few of the Guardians :lol:I blocked barbarians now from directly attacking the Guardians. They will still battle with the minions not guarding the mana node.

the pirate barb civ sounds awesome, but I'm concerned about how the AI will handle that seeing as they are completely idiotic at anything concerning navies :lol:

Hyenas don't seem to be working as I think you intended them to - they have the cannibalism, disease, and immunity from disease promos. Thing is, immunity from disease does nothing to get rid of disease's negative effects, so it seems to be a bit pointless atm. I'm thinking you should make a new promo called disease carrier, and negate the disease downsides for them, while letting them give opponents the disease effect.

I don't really get why Hyenas are disease carriers in the first place, though, or why they are so weak for that matter. Disney's the Lion King is nowhere near reality... :p You could always have 'rabid animals' (Any animals have a small chance to start diseased)

Re: Pirate barb civ, and navies: What is the navy AI like atm? I thought you'd taken it out from the AI routines, but I've seen a few caravels floating around.

Edit: barbs just started a golden age.

Gekko;8630858']the pirate barb civ sounds awesome, but I'm concerned about how I will handle that seeing as they I am completely idiotic at anything concerning navies :lol:
Then stay away from the open sea! :D

I made a fresh install of everything: civ4, bts, ffh and wild mana 6.2. It loaded fine, but crashed when I clicked Launch! in a custom game. I restarted the game 4 times and the same thing happened every time.

I found out what the problem was. I started Fall from Heaven II (without Wild Mana mod) and started a game. I got the "First time playing" screen and closed it. Now I restarted the game again, this time with the Wild Mana mod and it worked as normal. So it seems your mod can't handle the first time playing screen. It's probably rare to find someone who starts Wild Mana before any other FfH game so I thought I should point it out!

Blast, I've been posting in the "6.0 beta" thread. Sorry. >.<

K, so I've been playing a custom game (dragons, deadly wild mana, more events, etc.) and it's hanging - I've been waiting about 10 minutes for it to finish its processing after ending my turn. I'm guessing that maybe it's because the AC is at 28 and two AI civs are at war, likely pushing it to 30 and thus blight? Not sure, but anyway, the saved game is attached.

Edit: OK, I reloaded, and didn't have a problem... I'm guessing, then, that it was because on the turn after the save my traits changed to Charismatic, Organized, and one other, and maybe it was having trouble recalculating all the promotions for my units.

amurites swordmage and battlemage seems to be missing weapon promotions.
see my thread ..
sorry if it is intentionnal

Idk if this is being addressed yet but in that game I've been playing for ages it feels like, the AI never takes advantage of their mana nodes. They will send an adept to squat on it but they never actually do anything with it. It's a pain having to send my own workers and adepts to my allied Illian's outlands just to build mana nodes for them so I can steal it in trade.

Yeah, the AI is not building mana nodes in my game either. They are sending adepts to the nodes, but then they just park there. In fact, I think they may even be taking the spellbooks, but they are not taking the promotions.

they have the proper techs.

Is there a tutorial or faq for the scions? Especially regarding the whole expansion-Awakened-city growth mechanic?

This is from Tarquelmes Scion thread. Shouldn't have changed much.


The formula determining the odds an Awakened appear each turn isn't complicated, but it is rather long.

The base chance for a Standard-sized world is:
Quick: ~9%
Normal: ~6%
Epic: ~3.5%
Marathon: ~3%

World Size adjustment:
"Population limit" / 40
That limit is 20 for a Duel sized world and goes up to 70 for a Huge world.
The world size also sets a cap on Awakened generation: It ranges from 20 for a Duel world to 70 for a Huge one.

Additive factors:
Capital population / 4
Total buildings:
Gift Temples or Cenotaphs * 1
Halls of the Covenant * 2
Shrines to Kylorin / 2

Resources:
The number of Patrian Artifacts available * 0.75
Then +1 each for having any:
Silk, Gold, Gems, Ivory, Dye, Cotton.

Multipliers:
Civic: Aristocracy? Then * 1.4

Game speed - the numbers are linked to game-speed production adjustments. Divide by...
Quick: 0.5
Normal: 0.75
Epic: 1.125
Marathon: 1.5

Game turn. Every turn it's a little harder by...
Quick: 0.5%
Normal: 0.25%
Epic: 0.165%
Marathon: 0.125%

Ai mod:
The AI gets a 20% bonus.

Difficulty:
At Settler there's a 50% bonus. That scales down to a 30% penalty at Deity. These figures are reversed for the AI - if YOU are at Deity an AI Scion will get a 50% bonus.

Yeah, the AI is not building mana nodes in my game either. They are sending adepts to the nodes, but then they just park there. In fact, I think they may even be taking the spellbooks, but they are not taking the promotions.

they have the proper techs.

oops, fixed

Running 6.2, I have *lots* of goblin forts and stag lairs. The stags seem to be crowding out the other animals - as of turn 110 at normal speed, I've seen ~30 stags, one baby spider, a handful of wolves and lizards, and no other animals.

Stags make nice defenders, but I was hoping for some gorillas, lions, tigers, and bears (oh my!) so I could build cages.

For kicks, I decided to use the high to low challenge option. Also, I gave the AI extra mana. Now on the first high to low change, I've taken over the Doviello, and seem to have their extra mana!! :)

is any civ at peace with animals as of now? you could make the Doviello and/or Elves at peace with them, and let animals spawn in friendly civs' territory... also the Nature's Revolt ritual could give you peace with animals and let them spawn inside your lands... that would make the ritual a whole lot more interesting :D

giving the Doviello peace with animals, and maybe giving Charadon Charismatic would go a long way towards making them more balanced... right now the poor guys are just, well, pretty much Embers without Warrens. as much as I love playing with Mahala, the wolfguys need some boost... both Orbis and RiFe give them some cool stuff to boot :D

the Bannor could benefit from some added boost too, just to make them more interesting to play... so do the Grigori, the new adventurer spawn system in Orbis/Rife is awesome for example :D

I'd suggest using the Tweakmod changes to Grigori and Elohim.

Another suggestion I'd use is throwing in leaders from Lena to more civs here and there. If Amuriites and Balseraph can have so many leaders, why not others?

Tweakmod did a lot of good things with the Doviello too, making them a werewolf-oriented civ in the mid to late game. You could look there for inspiration.

I'm not really keen on those changes... The Doviello run with animals, but I don't think they should have a focus on werewolves. I gave them access to Duin as a leader, who gets a special hero... Closest I'll go. Of course, I emphasized the animal aspect too. :lol:

yeah, werewolf focus is too specific. animals would be nice.

have to agree with the Elohim as well, VERY lame in basic FFH. they are awesome in FF with the new stuff they get, and Tolerant really REALLY makes no sense for them, and is much better given to Decius to make him an interesting leader instead of a pushover. you could always have Decius also able to lead the Elohim if people like to use Tolerant as them.

I also prefer their Amurite changes to Amurite+ though keep the leaders.
That is likely too much work. Honestly, Tweakmod being near dead is the reason I came here, though you have a pretty good mod yourself.

not really a bug but it seems savage and animals fighting mana guardians a bit bizarre.

I mean either the guardian dies and the book is lost, the effect of having guardians is lost.
and either the savage axemen, warriors, wolfriders or some animals stacks disappear, attacking the guardian instead of trying to enter my borders. In the same time, the guardian becomes more and more powerful. beginning already with Combat V... it hits reallys fast commando (stupid for a locked on unit), tactics.... bothersome as the guardian may move out of reach and leave the mana node if you beat him or Drill IV... that one is really bothersome.

how long until 6.3? I just decided I'm going to spend the entire weekend playing Wild Mana and I don't want WOCs and AI adepts not building nodes :p

Just seen some elephants strolling around with strength 6. As the game goes on they get weaker? :p

yep, somebody already mentioned that Elephants go from 8 to 6 instead of just going +1. I guess this could hit hill giants too since they are 7 strength?

Playing as the Scions of Patria, noticed a couple things...

1. Alcinus doesn't have the Thaumaturge's Keep ability. If I'm missing a tech or resource, it would be good to know what. If you've removed his ability to build the building, then you should take it out of the text too.

2. Melante can't build her mansion. She at least has the button, but it is constantly greyed out (no, she's not in the capital). Again if I need something else, it'd be good to know what, otherwise it needs to be fixed.

3. Some text saying exactly what The Breach does would be helpful.

4. When I tried casting the Breach, nothing seemed to happen (but then again, I don't know what I'm expecting)... and then I crashed to desktop. On reload, I cast it, got a bunch of named guys and crashed after attacking a goblin fort. I've attached the save game so you can try to reproduce it.

yeah, Breach is bugged, deactivated it for now. Melante cannot build a mansion, the button you see is for the Dark Council, which needs all Pelemoc, Melante, Alcinus and Themoch in the city at the same time (added a Help text).

Bannor Plus and Doviello Plus? yummy! wonder what's in there! :)

now that I think about it another vanilla FFH race that could get some added toys are the Malakim, they're very boring in FFH but wonderful desert fellas in RifE :D

You're merging tweak mod things in now as well O_O. *hugs a mind mana guardian*
This next mini-patch looks to be the best yet.

Side Notes: I've formed a permanent alliance with the Illians 3 times in a row now. I'm apparently very good at being 'too useful to destroy'

Aggressive AI behavior between 6.0 and 6.2 is like night and day. You really found the right balance and I'm enjoying the early game wars and glad to see that even good civs will fight with each other.

I am uploading patch 6.3 right now. Haven't really merged much from the tweakmod, just what was easy to grab :). It is a VERY excellent mod for sure.

sweet! thanx for making my weekend majestic Sephi ;)

here we go

http://www.filefront.com/14918279/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.3.exe/

Tweakmod did a lot of good things with the Doviello too, making them a werewolf-oriented civ in the mid to late game. You could look there for inspiration.
Do you know what was changed?

Haven't looked at the Elohim/Grigori changes from Tweakmod in detail, but pretty sure some it will be very useful :)

Doviello Mechanics

Doviello start being able to build special camps on Fur and Deer resources. These camps give a bonus to food, but decrease the tile's commerce. When Beastmen/Sons of Asena/Battlemasters fight, they have a chance to become Feral after combat. Feral, for awhile, allows them to capture animals. Sons of Asena and Battlemasters have a chance to become Werewolves after combat, with the Blood of Asena promotion. In werewolf form, they have a chance to spawn a wolf after combat. Feral and Blood of Asena both have a chance to wear off. Another UU, Children of Halfmorn, can be built at Feral Bond. Children of Halfmorn can lock 6th-level units with Blood of Asena permanently into werewolf form. Those locked in can subsequently lock others in. Any unit with the Werewolf promotion can turn Wolf Packs with Empower V into Ravenous Werewolves.



Basically, Doviello get early camps to balance out their tundra starts; they get trickles of werewolves throughout the game; they get lots of werewolves at Feral Bond, even if they lose the race to Duin; and the interaction of their werewolves with their wolves makes their World Spell actually have a point beyond providing suicide units in a very early rush.

Though if you're asking if I know what was changed in the code to do these things, sorry, I have no idea :undecide:.

This mod is looking absolutely wonderful, by the way!

yeah, Breach is bugged, deactivated it for now. Melante cannot build a mansion, the button you see is for the Dark Council, which needs all Pelemoc, Melante, Alcinus and Themoch in the city at the same time (added a Help text).

Ah, my bad. I knew she could build SOMETHING. ;)

Question re: Alcinus - does he not regain the immortal promotion until a couple turns after he's reborn? If so, could he maybe lose enraged when he was reborn? An elephant spawned near my capital during war, and he ran out and got pwned. The very next turn, he resurrected, ran out AGAIN and got pwned AGAIN, and never respawned. Anybody capable of dealing with this elephant before the crazy mage suicided was off on the battle front. :p

Lest you think I'm all criticism, I really am enjoying this mod immensely! Do you need any help adding text for the new leaders or anything?

care to explain what's in Doviello Plus? ;)

edit: 6.3 , in the civilopedia page of Verlain his Scientific trait is shown funky, it says "Scientific" twice, one green and one white :D

I will write more about it when it is fully finished, right now the Doviello got a civ trait (Feral) which allows them to gain promotions after defeating animals. The promotions that can be gained this way depend on the type of animal. Hunting Animals gets a whole new dimension for the Doviello.

pretty cool, but RifE's system where they are friendly with animals and spawn them seems more fun imho ;)

I'd just like to say, the above message was NOT payed for by the FfH Players for RifE Association. ;)

yeah it's just that I'd rather have them allied with animals than hunting them... the AI doesn't even benefit from Feral too much I guess, don't think they can actually think "let's try to kill some animals to improve my units" , or can they? :D

Obviously I agree, just thought my last post would be entertaining. :lol:
RifE does something with promotions too, but it's more any unit built in a Den City (one in which a Den is built, enabling you to spawn that kind of animal) gets one. Palace doubles as a Wolf Den, so they all start with the 'Mark of the Wolf' promotion.

Gekko;8638862']pretty cool, but RifE's system where they are friendly with animals and spawn them seems more fun imho ;)

You also judge a book by the cover it seems :rolleyes:

You can be 100% sure that I just ignore comments like this. You did not even try to come up with an argument.

The cool thing about the FFH modmods is that they are quite different. making them equal would be so boooooring. Valkrionn does an outstanding job, no question about it. Doesn't mean I have to repeat his mistakes though :p

You also judge a book by the cover it seems :rolleyes:

You can be 100% sure that I just ignore comments like this. You did not even try to come up with an argument.

The cool thing about the FFH modmods is that they are quite different. making them equal would be so boooooring. Valkrionn does an outstanding job, no question about it. Doesn't mean I have to repeat his mistakes though :p

Actually, my favorite part of (my) Doviello+ is the Duel mechanic. You have one unit issue a challenge, a second unit accept... Then a bit of python is run which considers ACTUAL COMBAT ODDS, and the winner of the simulated combat inherits half the loser's xp along with a small boost. That, and the scavenge mechanic (Victorious units from any combat cost no support, and can steal weapons) make the Doviello very fun IMO. :goodjob:

That said, I completely agree. If you play the modmods, there are now FOUR different interpretations for the Doviello. My own, Orbis, yours, and the TweakMod's. :lol:

Glad to see you gave them Duin, though. I just think he fits them. :lol:

You also judge a book by the cover it seems :rolleyes:


nah. I did try RifE Doviello, and it was lots of fun. I'm playing a game with Mahala WM 6.3 right now, and as nice as the promos are, I like RifE's system a lot. :)


You can be 100% sure that I just ignore comments like this. You did not even try to come up with an argument.

Actually I wasn't really trying to come up with one, I was just briefly stating my opinion :p

The cool thing about the FFH modmods is that they are quite different. making them equal would be so boooooring. Valkrionn does an outstanding job, no question about it. Doesn't mean I have to repeat his mistakes though :p

sure, but making something different for the sake of being different doesn't make much sense. please explain what mistakes he did though :D

Gekko;8639182']sure, but making something different for the sake of being different doesn't make much sense. please explain what mistakes he did though :D

For one thing, too much python. I'm planning to fix that though... The whole spawn system will eventually go in the DLL, for the Doviello, the Jotnar, the Scions, the Grigori, and the Archos. :lol: It's been used too much to leave it in python.

Minor cosmetic bugs:
--------------------

Missing pedia links (i.e. TXT_KEY_PEDIA_STUFF is displayed instead of the corresponding tech/unit/improvment etc.)

Improvements:
- Windmill
- Farm
- Enclave
- Fishing Village
- Lumber mill
- Mine
- Snake pillar
- Town
- Workshop

Unique features:
- Remnants of patria
- Yggdrasil


Resources:
- Cotton

Civilizations:
- Animals (I guess that's intended, but you used the term 'Needs text on other occasions,so perhaps it's not intended...)
- Guardians of Wildmana (comments: see Animals)
- Pirates (comments: see Animals)




---------------------------------------------------------------------

Misc Stuff:


Typos:
Pedia entry: Religions -> Council of Shadows: Last line: "State Religion allow acces to the Shadowrider[/link] Unit"

I think I found a bug, maybe related to barbarians being blocked from attacking mana guardians:
The Broken Sepulcher is located on a hill surrounded by water and a peak except 2 accessable adjacent tiles.
I moved my scout on it to explore the lair, because it was rather far away from my start, but the spawned barbarians (hill giant and the 2nd time spiders) don't attack me, maybe because of the death mana?!
Ok, now that the two accessable adjacent tiles are blocked I can explore the lair without a result for a few turns, because apparently there is no free adjacent tile to spawn the next bad guy on :D
Finally after getting 5 xp from lair exploring without being attacked I pop a great artist and even without the Broken Sepulcher and only the death mana I'm ignored by the hill giant.

Erm, so I just got the event that says Pirate So-and-So is going to raid my cities, do I pay him off to plunder someone else or do I not know him. I picked the payoff, and instead of subtracting the 300ish gold from my treasury of 400ish, I now have... 21835 gold. Which, you know, is epically amazing, but probably not what you intended. XD

Spotted a couple of graphical bugs.

1) Demonic Hunter has a red blob when it does its attack
2) Mark of the Spider promotion icon is missing (purple square)

Erm, so I just got the event that says Pirate So-and-So is going to raid my cities, do I pay him off to plunder someone else or do I not know him. I picked the payoff, and instead of subtracting the 300ish gold from my treasury of 400ish, I now have... 21835 gold. Which, you know, is epically amazing, but probably not what you intended. XD

I can confirm this.
Also, playing as Scions again in 6.3 - Alcinus can now create the Alchemist's tower. However, it can be created in the capital (which may be intentional, but misleading as the descriptor pop-up when he spawns says not to do this) and, more importantly, doesn't confer any random additional mana, so you're still stuck with the single Death mana you have from the beginning. Also, the random detrimental effect buildings don't get built in the city along with the tower, which may be a problem linked to there being no additional random mana, or may be intentional.

Korinna can bring herself to get out of bed on the first turn for Ophelia, now, though. :D

thanks for the bug reports.

Alcinus Keep works different. New Help txt is this: Gives random Spell Promotions to Arcane Units in the City. Small chance every turn for them to become insane.

Spotted a couple of graphical bugs.

1) Demonic Hunter has a red blob when it does its attack

I have no idea about the Demonic Hunter. Haven't changed anything compared to base FFH I think.

Thank you for this wonderful modmod! It is fun to play, runs stable and I am impressed by the way AI handles improvements and economy. And I like the import food function, always missed that in civ! There of course several things that imho can still be improved or are somewhat buggy (running version 6.2, tiny map, playing as calabim):

1. BUG mod help is disfunct
2. unique features vanish after exploration, not a bug, but when they stayed, they would add to the landscape
3. Event: City on top of ancient patrian city is possibly broken => persuit of knowlegde was not available and no prer. mentioned
4. when ruins come in cult. borders, the lizards move out, taking their ruins with them?! seems unplausible to me... furthermore, in one case they placed them on bradeline's well, destroying the well
5. no wonder movie for the great lighthouse
6. AI does not use its heroes partic. well, they move around alone often and fall easy prey
7. sometimes the AI captures a city and then rushes on, leaving the city undefended, although enemy units are nearby, in such a case razing the city should be considered (at least for evil civs)
8. AI cannot handle the reborn (immortal/Phoenix) very well, units are sent out without healing, perhaps binding them for a few turns would prevent the AI from making this mistake and the human player would be prevented from overusing immortals at one go
9. Lich can be promoted to corpus, although being unable to use it, when not scions
10. Empty bier reads "+2 DS" two times
11. prior to conclusion, infos about the outcome of a battle a gives, e.g., assassins are not set up against the weakest unit in a stack, when they will be unable to attack because of fear
12. can/ should dragons be subdued by subdue beast? mom. they are not

BUG? WM 6.3. Captured two scorpians. They were protecting my workers. Skelly came in my borders, stepped where my workers were at and killed them. Scorps didn't defend the workers and were quite happy sharing the square with the skelly.

not a bug, scorpions are invisible to most units, like spiders.

playing as Clan of Embers, I moved my goblin on a goblin fort with 2 defenders, and left him there to heal. one turn later, the 3 defenders leave the fort. should they consider non-barb units as "valid" defenders? I think they shouldn't, as the other player might have other plans for those units :D

are Lizardmen supposed to be Animals and Beasts instead of Barbarians?

should HN animals like Giant Spiders appear to belong to Animals and Beasts instead of Barbarians? kinda like HN ships appear to belong to the Pirates you know ;)

for some reason, units with withdrawal chances when mouseovered show:

x% withdrawal chance
x% flight chance

what is a flight chance? :lol:

withdrawal on defense (a unique mechanic of FFH)

Basically, Doviello get early camps to balance out their tundra starts; they get trickles of werewolves throughout the game; they get lots of werewolves at Feral Bond, even if they lose the race to Duin; and the interaction of their werewolves with their wolves makes their World Spell actually have a point beyond providing suicide units in a very early rush.

Though if you're asking if I know what was changed in the code to do these things, sorry, I have no idea :undecide:.

This mod is looking absolutely wonderful, by the way!

thanks. The camp was easy to find, somehow I didn't manage to find the werewolf thing. I gave the Baron Duin (and all other doviello leaders that build the Baron Hero) now a unique ability for werewolfs.

weird, I just built an Explorer and he's allowed to get Bucaneer Crew and Skeleton Crew, but not Longshoremen crew.

Lest you think I'm all criticism, I really am enjoying this mod immensely! Do you need any help adding text for the new leaders or anything?

Help is always welcome. If you see an aspect of the mod that you think could need an improvement then sure go for it and I see to get it merged.

Which leaders text doesn't work? It could be that I just forgot to link to it.

Actually, my favorite part of (my) Doviello+ is the Duel mechanic. You have one unit issue a challenge, a second unit accept... Then a bit of python is run which considers ACTUAL COMBAT ODDS, and the winner of the simulated combat inherits half the loser's xp along with a small boost.

that's indeed really cool. :goodjob:

Longshoremen Crew only becomes choosable if I first choose Skeleton Crew.

there's a missing Text_Key in the spell that creates the fishing village ( and it says it creates a pirate cove ) . btw, is it correct that you need a 3 tile separation? I always remember Lanun Pirate Coves only needing a 2 tile separation.

sadly Kelp only shows up on factory maps like Continents ( probably a bit too clumpy ) , both Erebus and ErebusContinent have no Kelp :(

So, somehow the Luichirp rebuilt Barnaxus even though I had his pieces. Now I have two dudes with his pieces. :p Edit: And there he is a 3rd time. :crazyeye:

Normally Barnaxus can be resurrected, but that should delete his pieces.

Normally Barnaxus can be resurrected, but that should delete his pieces.

I know that, but I had thought they had to have his pieces to rebuild him, and not just be able to put him in a queue? I'm the Sheiam, and I've got 3 guys with the pieces now.

Also: The AI is able to pester me to convert to their religion, but I can't ask them to convert. Is this intended?

Gekko;8640639']sadly Kelp only shows up on factory maps like Continents ( probably a bit too clumpy ) , both Erebus and ErebusContinent have no Kelp :(

The problem is that maps that use custom feature placement (Read: Most downloaded mapscripts) specify the feature types used in the map. There are a few ways around this:

Distribute custom versions of popular mapscripts, which add the kelp feature.
Add some python which adds it to the map.

The first method is used in Orbis... I used it in RifE, until I added some python to FlavourMod to add it. Easy to do there, as it already loops over plots to add marsh/ruins/forts and so on. Can do it in onGameStart, but it would be necessary to add a bit more python to it there.

Orthus needs to be tweaked taking the animals into account, right now he often gets killed by them VERY early :D probably needs to get a little tougher AND have a bodyguard ;)

version 6.1
playing amurites I've got a swordmage, with Fire I... cool, the small chance of a unit getting a lvl1 sell worked !!
well no.
the unit cannot use "blaze"!
when highlighting the "fire I" promo, it says "blaze with channeling I..."

I don't know if it is only fire1 or all spells, but some seems to need the channeling promo and not just the mana promo.

my 0.2

When you get Govannan later, he'll distribute channeling 1 promotions to your units and stuff like that random blaze promotion will be yours. Until then it's just a random graphic and a future plan.

Bug Update: I had the freya graphics glitch hit me again on my current 6.2 Infernals game. Apparently the load couldn't handle all the fire and my size 3x capital and it blew up. The base ffh graphics pack fixed the problem once again.

I have no idea about the Demonic Hunter. Haven't changed anything compared to base FFH I think.

It was event that made a unit demonic from a liar, which was a hunter (Forget what civ I was playing, but the graphics changed)

Observation:

Because Spiders are invisible, time and time again they seem to enter territory and kill workers. The only way to stop it is by putting a strong defensive unit to guard them, or else micro managing hawks &/or hunters to look for them. Neither imho are particularly good things for gameplay - especially when you consider just how hard it is to keep a large, sprawling army at high difficulty levels, and that you have to defend your territory from barbs and other beasts too. Would it be possible for invisible units to become visible when they enter rage, or something like that? It kind of fits in with the idea of an animal going into rage, anyway... :)

Just took over Hyborem as my last switch in high to low, and found that he had been using agrarianism. Rather odd thing for a fallow civ to do! :p

a few points in my ongoing game as clan, Erebus :
- Skyre Noctis Pirate event fires off every 5 turns or so... and since it's buggy and actually gives money...
- are the boarding parties tjhat keep invading me (very cool, by the wat) related to ignoring Skyre Noctis Pirate event ?

-I sure have a LOT of goblin forts, (cool as the Clan, tho !), but saw very few f the other lairs, except a few skellies. Is it only a lucky roll of the dice ?

- I can't build aqueducts, they appear to be buildable only by supplies, according to the civilopedia.

Bug: Kuriotates can't build their Hero unit. It says it's a unique unit for Elohim AND it's listed as the hero for the Kuriotates.

Bug: Kuriotates can't build their Hero unit. It says it's a unique unit for Elohim AND it's listed as the hero for the Kuriotates.

The Hero pops as a great person does and is called an adventurer. It is not built.

EDIT: Wrong, adventurer is the Gregori Hero... you asked about Kuriotates. My bad.

Are you sure of that? Unless Wildmana has made a lot of very strange changes, Adventurers are Grigori Heroes. The Kuriotates should have Eurabatres the Gold Dragon and Herne (essentially a Centaur Charger with Blitz and Hero).

Kael recently added a prereqciv tag to FFH and I also used it for the civ Heroes but put a wrong value into 2 of them. Grigori Adventurers aren't changed

Patch 6.4 (breaks saves) (http://www.filefront.com/14929043/FFH-Wild-Mana-SETUP-6.4.exe/)

fixed an issue with wrong prereqciv for second Kuriotates Hero
Fixed an issue with Barbarians from Lairs spawning with UNITAI_ANIMAL sometimes (Hill Giants for example)
Event Pirate Invasion: set RandomGold to 0
art reference for "mark of the Spider" Promotion fixed
updated to Denevs FFHBUG Sevopedia v 0.7 (fixes some txt keys in the Sevopedia)
updated Help for Scions Keep
updated Doviello+ module
javellin thrower :hammers: cost lowered to 60 (same as archers which they replace)
AI will launch counter-attacks on cities in War even if not in conquest mode
AI is more willing to give in to a demand to change their favorite religion (it's still blocked when they value their religion very high)
AI Barbs and Animals will heal more often

thanx for the update ;)

Gekko;8640413']are Lizardmen supposed to be Animals and Beasts instead of Barbarians?
actually they can spawn on both sides

8. AI cannot handle the reborn (immortal/Phoenix) very well, units are sent out without healing, perhaps binding them for a few turns would prevent the AI from making this mistake and the human player would be prevented from overusing immortals at one go
12. can/ should dragons be subdued by subdue beast? mom. they are not
what do you mean with 8. ? I would like to reproduce the problem so I can fix it.

You can't subdue dragons, but Command Promotions still work on them.

- are the boarding parties tjhat keep invading me (very cool, by the wat) related to ignoring Skyre Noctis Pirate event ?

yeah, they are related to the event. However they are Pirates, so they pretty much do what they want anyway.

what do you mean with 8. ? I would like to reproduce the problem so I can fix it.

I guess he's saying that immortal units when killed reappear in the capital, then immediately rush back to the frontlines without waiting to heal.

about this:

Orthus spawns in a Goblin Fort, if there is one on the Map.

perhaps you could make him spawn in a barb city if there is one on the map, if not then a goblin fort? it just seems he fits better with orcs than goblins ;)

OKay. I just finished the above game, by the time I killed strong inland civs, the endless barb boarding parties did wipe out the hippus, and cripple the calabim & amurites (down to 2 cities...) XD

Love the feeling of it

playing 6.4 as Mahala, one of my scouts defeated a baby spider and I got the "one of your units proved themselves as mighty warriors by defeating a strong beast" message, however the unit gained no promotions.

aside from this, civilization traits are not showing up in the pedia.

Harpy event still gives 15 revolt turns instead of 5 whip anger.

edit: whoa! I was playing with wildlands on, and all of a sudden a massive stack of sabretooth went enraged en masse and razed one of my cities :lol: cool, but kinda unfair, I don't think something like that is supposed to happen. enraged animals are supposed to only get -1 defense strength, right?

the best thing imho would be to add a "animal invasion" gameoption, on by default, which makes them able to enter cultural borders. this way they're not going to breed like rabbits in the wilderness and then go berserk all of a sudden. the stronger ones should probably not be allowed to spawn till a little later, so that you don't have invincible bears rampaging in your BFC :D

edit2: in this screenshot the Malakim are not being very smart about the aquae sucellus :lol:

In my last two games (6.3 and pre) the AI seemed to ignore the Catacomb wonder and both times Hyborem built it after a while, which isn't the best choice for him, imho, because he gets free mage guilds anyway and should rather expand or build troops.

couple minor issues: Pagan Temple UBs show "allows to build clerics" even when not playing bannor.

icon for Great Commander in the GP bar is the great spy icon.

Syliven's Perfect Lyre is only 201 hammers, is that correct? seems low for such a wonder.

edit: it would be nice if Loki's Disrupt spell could be autocasted :)

Playing 6.3

Barbarians are still spawning very, very early, at the same time as animals. On a pure desert start where I had no strong defensive terrain and low hammers, the three warriors I was able to build got slaughtered by 12 skeletons around turn 25-30. I don't believe there was anything I could have done about this. Why not let barbs spawn a lot later than animals, as in base FFH?

barbs and animals start spawning later in 6.4 , you could try that :D

Would it be possible to add in the Elohim unique features bonuses from Tweakmod? I thought that helped them out a little?

Gekko;8644662']barbs and animals start spawning later in 6.4 , you could try that :D

Playing 6.4:

Goblins, Beastmen, frostlings, and skeletons spawn at turn 27, beeline towards me and wipe me out (4 warriors defending) on turn 35.

It's still very early :p

Playing 6.4:

Goblins, Beastmen, frostlings, and skeletons spawn at turn 27, beeline towards me and wipe me out (4 warriors defending) on turn 35.

It's still very early :p

I've never had this problem. Barbs are pretty scared of animals, and the animal-barb war keeps them occupied and killed off. I mean it kind of sucks, because your exploring units will never make it back home, but your home units should be fine. I simply have never been wiped out like this, and I usually keep the defenses pretty light too, maybe one or two warriors defending the capital for the first 50 or 60 turns.

that's weird, I've ben playing with all the challenge options on and haven't been overrun so fast.

In my 6.3 game, i still have yet to see the AI build a mana node, in fact, right now, I am not even seeing adepts.

Anyone see mana nodes or adepts in 6.3 or 6.4?

Playing 6.4:

Goblins, Beastmen, frostlings, and skeletons spawn at turn 27, beeline towards me and wipe me out (4 warriors defending) on turn 35.

It's still very early :p

I'm having the same problem. I think the AI bonus vs barbs causes all them to beeline and gang up on the human. It means pretty much for the first 200-300 turns of the game, I have no control over what I do- I must do nothing but spam warriors, beeline to hunting (slowly due to no workers or time to build an elder council even)

It's no fun. Maybe if everyone started with 5 warriors it might be fairer, or the barbs and animals started 1 str weaker, and then moved up.

hmm... I am just simply not having this experience. I build very few units, and I build tons of improvements, buildings, and wonders. I have never seen a barb stack bigger than 4 units come into my territory. Sometimes the enemies are tough, like mounted mercenaries, but with a little awareness of the threat, they are dealt with. Usually, they keep fighting the animals, and ignore me. I try to make it a point to kill barbs, so they don't kill the animals as much, so I can capture the animals.

I am playing with raging barbs, end of winter, wildlands, deadly wild mana, barbarian world. I have barbs pumped up to maximum velocity, and not having this problem. Perhaps crowding the world makes the war to the barbs outside your borders more deadly to them, therefore they stay outside cultural borders, or perhaps I just take all the barbs as XP food, and quickly build up a warrior or two with orcslaying. In my recent game, I have about 5 wolfpacks, and they continuously spawn wolves I use as cruise missiles to weaken barbs so the wolfpacks can feed.

So to sum it up, capturing animals is a good way to supplement your forces. And a couple of well promoted scouts, supplemented by suicide warriors, can do the trick until you get hunting. You trade in a warrior for a bear, or a stag. The animal-barb war causes wounded animals all the time, you just usually need to be patient. Even better, a wounded animal won a battle, so you can snag it with free XP, but before it promotes.

Maybe you all should add the difficulty level you are playing on when you complain/report about animals and barbs.

Maybe you all should add the difficulty level you are playing on when you complain/report about animals and barbs.

Monarch (moved down from Emperor to see if I could survive better).

I think the problem may just be the randomness of the spatial distribution of barbs vs animals. If you happen to have a lot of animals spawn near you, then they keep you safe for a long while. If you happen to have a lot more barbs spawn near you than animals, then the animals can't hold the barbs off for you.

I think there are two possible solutions to this issue.
1) Have the barbs spawn later than the animals. It doesn't have to be a lot later--15-20 turns would probably be enough for the animals to establish a presence.
2) Have defended barb lairs spawn at the same time as the animals, but hold off on the random barb unit spawns for 20 turns or so. These are the worst because they always spawn in pairs, and if 3 pairs converge, you can be sunk.

If you happen to have a lot of animals spawn near you, then they keep you safe for a long while.

it can also happen that you are safe for a while, that is until a couple dozen enraged animals come at you all of a sudden :D

Are pirates supposed to block the coast of the Lanun, after they spawn from their coves?

Cassiel is running theocracy in my game. Seems odd really. ;) (I want to spread Ashen Veil in their cities... :() (Still on 6.2... really want to win this high to low game! :))

By the way, is there any advanced terraforming for hell terrain?

E.g. desert turns to burning sands - will spring turn it to the hell equivalent of plains etc? (Same with the nature 3 spell)

Cassiel just tries to build the Altar ;) and theocracy is the only way for him

Then find him another way! :p An agnostic can't do theocracy. It's kind of against the definition of agnostic! :lol:

(I'm bitter because of the 4 civs near me, 2 hate me and won't give open borders, and the other two are theocratic... :()

I think the problem may just be the randomness of the spatial distribution of barbs vs animals. If you happen to have a lot of animals spawn near you, then they keep you safe for a long while. If you happen to have a lot more barbs spawn near you than animals, then the animals can't hold the barbs off for you.


I really wanted to get at least one Amurite game past the early game, so I WB-deleted most of the first wave of skellies and wolf riders. It's exactly as I thought: if you can survive that initial barb assault right after they spawn, when you have only 4-5 warriors (or 2-3, if you've built a worker), then enough animals spawn to keep you safe (except from the animals themselves, as Gekko says). But surviving that assault can be a 50-50 proposition sometimes--and I think those odds get worse in certain terrain, like deserts.

so there are too many barbs between turn 20 and 50 (normal speed)?

Are the barbs scaled for map size? I was testing a game and on Dual Pangaea map and by about turn 30, I was surrounded by animal lairs (tigers, stags, sabertooths and gorillas =) oh my!!!). That is not including the lairs, but I didn't have a problem with those as I had the barb trait.

Also it seems a little over powered for the Doviello to get all those free promos when they kill animals. Personally I would stick with just the mark promos. But that may just be that too many animals were spawning on the dual Pangaea map, nice just sitting in cities while enraged tigers gave free promos =).

so there are too many barbs between turn 20 and 50 (normal speed)?

The problem is due to the more self-preserving behaviour of the barbs in Wildmana. In this turn range you normally start to build improvements, and if the barbs are not suiciding, they tend to pillage or chase workers. And in turn 30 you have either a worker or enough warriors to protect it and the fruits of its labouring.
Its much easier to just build a handful of warriors while growing the capital to a reasonable size and beelining mysticism, and after the barbstorm is over, you pump out a few workers.

I'm playing normal speed on MountainCoast standard size/Emperor, and usually getting an assault of barbs around turn 30. The barbs are vanishig around turn 60 (probably all eaten by animals) then there is a lull of maybe 20 turns after which the invasion of rabid critters begin. The animals less annoyíng, as they cannot pillage. (Played up to 6.3)

what do you mean with 8. ? I would like to reproduce the problem so I can fix it.


I noticed that the AI sends its reborns/ immortals (after them being reborn) into battle without waiting to let them heal.

And I noticed that the human player (me) tends to send his immortals into suicide missions, as they will reappear, but the AI does not use them that way.

If units gain the 2nd held promotion (that with +10% turning off) upon revival, both problems would be reduced, as the AI's units get a few turns to heal and the human player cannot use his/her units again immediatlely.

so there are too many barbs between turn 20 and 50 (normal speed)?

I think it is well balanced right now.


I play monarch, normal speed.

It felt fine for me as well, playing Noble with all Challenge gameoptions on. I really, really like how even with those gameoptions you have some time to explore with scouts before the world starts getting overrun. I still think Animals should be able to enter civilised territory though, BUT only attack cities if enraged.

In my game now animals rule. Barbs do not show up because of they are fresh meat for animals. And even if barbs enter to my territory, they do not pillage.

Deity, large map, standard number of civilizations, no raging barbs.

Gekko;8647123']It felt fine for me as well, playing Noble with all Challenge gameoptions on. I really, really like how even with those gameoptions you have some time to explore with scouts before the world starts getting overrun. I still think Animals should be able to enter civilised territory though, BUT only attack cities if enraged.

I think animals should stay out.

Barbs do not show up because of they are fresh meat for animals.

I tends to ebb and flow. When the poison goblins power up to 5, and mercs, ritualists? (the sheaim ninja looking chicks w/ poison), and mounted mercs come into the scene, they start to wear down the animals.

I also kind of like the mechanic, where when barbs first spawn, they both have weak power, and if you can kill the first one that turn, they are significantly weakened. However, if you let them live for the first turn, then one of them powers up.

I think animals should stay out.

which is why there would be a gameoption that does just that ;)

however, right now I feel that restraining the animals to areas with no culture is giving them too much of a leash, plus the tiles inside your culture become too quiet as animals act as a buffer from the barbs outside, and sometimes can breed out of proportion and then attack you en masse which feels very weird :lol:

version 6.3
dragons hoard is not producing culture, which makes destroying Acheron with culture very easy.

Edit: Nm.....

Well, it seemed a little saner playing the Doviello today.

I think it becomes a problem when the barbs are more dangerous then any AI player. If I survive the barbs, the game is a cakewalk.

so there are too many barbs between turn 20 and 50 (normal speed)?
I play mostly prince on standard/small maps with quick or normal game speed.
I think the barb and animal spawning is ok-ish, although I'd prefer just a tad less.
In fact, I'd love to have an option, where you could choose between few, normal and raging barbarians, which also auto-balances the animal spawn.
But I guess it's hard to balance the spawn-rate in order to keep wildlands and barbarian territory between civs as long as possible, and I love that feature, especially since it also works for standard/small maps.

Anyway, what really annoys me is that you can send out a couple of scouts and warriors, before the spawning starts and all of a sudden in one turn you are surrounded by animals and barbs and most units (farther away than like 5-8 tiles) won't make it home.
I think the first spawning wave should be less threatening, or add a notification (similar to the AC events) like 1-2 rounds before animals and barbs spawn, so that you have a slightly better chance to retreat with your explorer units.
The insta-spawn could be very frustrating and confusing for newer players.

A weird bug with Hyborem:
I beelined to Hyborem and went for my neighbor pretty soon, so I only had 2 warriors and the start-settler in my capital.
I have peace with nearby skeletons, can't even attack them (how can I declare war at barbarians now by the way???), but I can attack animals. I guess it's supposed to be this way.
Anyway, now this happens:
An enraged sabretooth approached my capital and the next round it killed my start-settler, without any notification or entry in the combat-log, pushed my two warriors out of the city, but didn't take the city.

as a bannor I adopted spiritual trait but my disciple units do not get passive xP in spite of fact that they have potency and other bonuses from spiritual trait.

One cleric has received no single XP point from potency but 300 turns has passed, for instance.

In 6.2 the Demon's Altar building doesn't seem to be working. Playing as Hyborem, I tried to sacrifice some of my captured animals/beasts on the altar for research, but there's no sacrifice button. Just in case beasts and animals aren't allowed to be sacrificed (dunno why - they're still living creatures) I gave myself a living unit with WB (removed the demon promotion from an archer), and still no button appeared.

Also, my earlier mention of possible terraforming for hell terrain - I really think this is a good idea. At present I'm sanctifying burning sands, using spring, and waiting a turn for the hell terrain to spread on to the new plains! A bit silly for Hyborem to use that particular spell, I know! ;)

Also in 6.2 - hill giant fortresses aren't explorable, and have to be razed to be removed. Dunno if that was intentional, or not. (And if not - if it's not already been fixed)

as a bannor I adopted spiritual trait but my disciple units do not get passive xP in spite of fact that they have potency and other bonuses from spiritual trait.

One cleric has received no single XP point from potency but 300 turns has passed, for instance.

potency promotion is quite confusing in FFH, only few disciple units benefit from it. I think only Priests and High Priests get the free XP

for sacrifice spell, the unit must be lvl 3 or something

A weird bug with Hyborem:
I beelined to Hyborem and went for my neighbor pretty soon, so I only had 2 warriors and the start-settler in my capital.
I have peace with nearby skeletons, can't even attack them (how can I declare war at barbarians now by the way???), but I can attack animals. I guess it's supposed to be this way.
Anyway, now this happens:
An enraged sabretooth approached my capital and the next round it killed my start-settler, without any notification or entry in the combat-log, pushed my two warriors out of the city, but didn't take the city.

I second this bug from my Infernal game on version 6.2. Luckily I never lost a settler to it but it was very strange that all my defenders would just up and leave the town while the enraged animal walked through. Seemed like if you had more than 3 defenders in my game though, the bug would suddenly not occur. I think my friend experienced this problem with dragons in version 6.2 as well. He once had a city razed and all 3 defenders were standing outside of the town when he looked at it.

Note on Fishing Boats: Combined with the nerf to agrarianism, they provide an interesting starting tech dilemma and make sea side starting villages far more desirable. In my 6.4 game I am the Illians and started next to a very coral rich ocean side area. So I built my town, teched straight to fishing (since illians start with exploration), and built fishing boats instead of workers to get my initial start. I'm already first in score within the first 200 turns and with the world's strongest army so I can say this strategy is definitely viable under the right conditions.

yeah, fishing makes now for a strong start, though you will have to defend it against pirates.

It seems that Barbarians are a lot more dangerous on the Erebus mapscript for some reason (and the AI is more handicapped at fighting them)

don't take Erebus into account, the AI is very inefficent with that mapscript due to all the mazelike mountain chains. good mapscript for a twist every now and then, but not one you would want to play seriously on imho.

It seems that Barbarians are a lot more dangerous on the Erebus mapscript for some reason (and the AI is more handicapped at fighting them)

playing on deity vs AI in wildmana is now like playing at emperor level in normal FFH.

Barbs disrupt AI expansion, also raged animals kill soldiers and workers( AI protects workers but 3 warriors is not enough for 5 raging lion), etc.

what settings do you use? I play wildmana on emporer and FFH on immortal. Ofcourse Barbs disrup AI expansion but they also disrupt human expansion.

Yea that Illians game is on monarch difficulty and I figured I could have crushed one of my 9 opponents by using Stasis 2-3 turns after the wilderness went wild. All 9 opponents have survived and all but 1 I believe was able to still get up 3 cities. Good to see my opponents can survive through the most extreme adversities now.

what settings do you use? I play wildmana on emporer and FFH on immortal. Ofcourse Barbs disrup AI expansion but they also disrupt human expansion.

Well, human finds a way...

Yeah, on deity, I'm behind in tech race but due to animals and GROWING barbs AI is not SO powerful as in pure FFH. That is my main point.


I YET have to try raging barb/barbarian world - those options slow my game down, I know it from my previous games

Maybe because of I'm playin large map: there is plenty of room before expansions begin everywhere so plenty of time animal spawning....from time to time message appears( usually from later game!) how "animal civ" has overtaken barbarian or even "civilized" city.

More crowded maps probably leave no room for animal's rule.

Of, course when all has said and done, AI has wiped animals off from map but by that time human player is already in conquest mode...

In my current game, Minister Koun has broken off from the Luichirp, but only has built one unit, Barnaxus.

http://www.2shared.com/file/9241227/11523915/module.html

brandeline's well has no entropy node.

It seems that Barbarians are a lot more dangerous on the Erebus mapscript for some reason (and the AI is more handicapped at fighting them)

Ah, no wonder I'm having so many problems with the barbs, as I play exclusively Erebus.

And I don't think it's the mountain ranges that do it; I think barb spawning must be higher overall on Erebus, as the most dangerous place to start (as I mentioned before) is in desert. I've yet to survive a desert start in Wildmana, and I've yet to see an AI survive it beyond turn 120 or so (poor Varn...)

I can't offer my gold in the trade menu.


http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll193/DioAurion/64_gold_bug.jpg

I can't offer my gold in the trade menu.




You don't have any gold. :confused:

EDIT: Ahh.. I see... thank Valkrionn.


I believe you cannot trade gold w/o currency.....

According to the top left corner, he has 149 gold. ;)

I can't offer my gold in the trade menu.


It seems to me that there is a value (at a guess ~300) which you aren't allowed to trade below. E.g. if you had 500, you could trade 200. I've noticed that, but merely assumed it was a feature... ;)

http://www.2shared.com/file/9241227/11523915/module.html

brandeline's well has no entropy node.

I think that is Fall Further. I know in FFH, Brad well is just a major dungeon.


Speaking of which, there are no more dungeons in Wild Mana, except the odd event created ones. Same with graveyards. I miss them. :( Esp graveyards, which can have champions raised from them... (and I swear once, playing FFH, I got a great commander from one) Oh yeah, and I don't think there are anymore shipwrecks either. :( Sometimes I would leave them fro the aesthetic value alone. Also, no more ancient towers, which I never improve the tile they are on, for aesthetic pruposes. Oh, and it would be cool to have a rare shipwreck or two generated in desert, as if there had been a sea there once, and while you are at it, some random ruins and castles. :D

It seems to me that there is a value (at a guess ~300) which you aren't allowed to trade below. E.g. if you had 500, you could trade 200. I've noticed that, but merely assumed it was a feature... ;)

I believe I've had >1200 gold and been unable to trade it...


I've gotten a graveyard from the event, but other than that, I agree that there are no naturally occurring graveyards or dungeons.

Yea Sephi would have mentioned a huge change such as setting a prereq level of gold before being allowed to trade in diplomacy. This is definitely a bug. I'm guessing the level is probably set to be the same as what the AI has to reach before trading their gold away, assuming it would still be possible to trade gold away at all.

yeah, was a bug. atleast it's now well tested that AI teammembers always save up some gold for events or khazad treasury etc.

just curious, what's the Tamed Wilderness gameoption going to do? something like "less barbarians" ?

what do you mean with 8. ? I would like to reproduce the problem so I can fix it.

You can't subdue dragons, but Command Promotions still work on them.

You were inquiring about a report which stated that the AI doesn't handle immortality very well, and sends the units back out without healing them.

Not sure if it was brought up again since then as I was just skimming, but I would imagine that the issue is that the Mission and Activity of the unit are not reset/cleared, so it still has orders to move to a certain tile or hit a certain unit, and never stops to consider the merits of healing. Clearing all Queue's and current activity types upon rebirth should help with that.

mission queque is cleared upon rebirth (joingroup(NULL)), but pushing a MISSION_HEAL might not hurt.

Noticing at some points that you can't hurry buildings/production or change production at times when the options are listed.

Some of the free T1 spells that Amurite units get don't work. My Swordmage with Body1 can cast haste; my Swordmages with Law1, Death1, and Fire1 cannot cast Loyalty, Raise Skeleton, or Blaze.

I can confirm that. Those units are missing the channelling promotion.
It's not related to certain spells though.

I can confirm that. Those units are missing the channelling promotion.
It's not related to certain spells though.

Channeling isn't necessary to cast, is it? Govannon can give the spell promos, but he doesn't give channeling.

So far it looks like only Haste can be cast from the free promos. I've confirmed that Blur and Enchanted Blade can't be cast either.

Govannon gave channeling 1 promo in version 4.2. Is it gone now?

# tier1 spells only require channeling1 to learn the spell
# Govannon doesn't teach channeling1 anymore

wait, so now Govannon can no longer get the whole Amurite army able to cast t1 spells?

of course he still can.He will teach them all tier1 spells he knows.

oh, I see what it means, channeling I is now only needed to LEARN it but not to be able to cast it. makes sense, sorry for misinterpretation. that sounded weird indeed :D

someone mentioned Cassiel going Theocracy and trying an Altar Victory, I don't think he should do that, Theocracy + lots of priests is about as un-Grigori as it can get.

it would be awesome though to let them build to Altar through sacrifice of Luonnatars. best way imho would be to allow them to build a level of the altar for every Luonnatar they sacrifice - so instead of building it through great priests they would sacrifice Luonnatars to be able to build it with hammers the old fashioned way ;)

agnostic doesn't mean Grigori don't respect Religion ;)

well they're tolerant of it but Cassiel preaches that every religion is flawed and the gods behave like spoiled children... plus without temples it's very hard for them to get priest specialists until they can go theocracy, but it's mostly a flavour point. Grigori should tend to go for Culture win imho ;)

Deadly Wildmana gameoption: when a wild Law node bestows effects on nearby units, the notification text says something like "Your units are feeling a lot more loyal". However, the promotion they get is Valor (Law3), not Loyalty. Not sure if this is working as designed or not...

BUG issue: text notifications of dungeon exploring results are now in a black font, which is pretty much unreadable. Can you make it a different color?

To argue in favor of Sephi on the Grigori incident. Don't think about what the civic is called, think about what it does. No spread of non-state religion. If I remember right from base civ if you don't have a religion and you adopt theocracy, that means no religions can spread into your land. Sounds about right to me.

After all Cassiel is running a Theocracy of sorts. A theocracy based around keeping his followers free of the hypocrisy of the gods and their internal struggles. So by sheltering his people from outside beliefs in favor of his own mission, he is being quite theocratic. Also considering the time of the game you get the tech for it, religion has most likely already started to infiltrate your lands and Cassiel is forced to watch more and more of his people fall sway to these various religions. So taking it to the next extreme and forming the government around a theocratic anti-religious movement is his final stand.

BUG issue: text notifications of dungeon exploring results are now in a black font, which is pretty much unreadable. Can you make it a different color?
are they always in black font? should hopefully be easy to change

are they always in black font? should hopefully be easy to change

Yeah, dungeon results are always in black, even the good ones. The other thing that's in black is the River of Blood notification (X city has shrunk by 2), though that doesn't really need to be read.

Quick question- what do you change to get the Scions added as a random select?