Anyone done a PBEM game with PC players in 3.19? I'm trying to play in a game starting up and can't open the save. I could open a test save, but not the game save.

I get a protected assets error: "The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed." Is this expected or should it work? I don't think I've modified any of the assets in the BtS folder (i.e. I think I've backed out all the changes from installing BUG).

Any suggestions appreciated.

This occurred when I did a test when looking into your problems with BUG and PBEM. I was hoping it was a problem with my BtS installation, but haven't had time to investigate.

The asset locking mechanism calculates check sums across the executable and the Assets folder. Since these checksums do not match between the Mac and Windows versions of the software, Aspyr had to do some clever coding to allow locked assets Windows saves to be opened on the Mac and vice versa.

The fact that you are getting the same issue that I saw makes me suspicious that Aspyr have broken something in this area when releasing the 3.19 upgrade. Can you open a locked assets single player save created in Windows?

The fact that you are getting the same issue that I saw makes me suspicious that Aspyr have broken something in this area when releasing the 3.19 upgrade. Can you open a locked assets single player save created in Windows?

Can you point me to one somewhere on the forums, or make one for me to test? Thanks.

Here's one, created in 3.19 for Windows with no mods loaded - not even BlueMarble. I've confirmed that this fails to load in my Mac BtS.

I'm pretty sure that my Windows BtS is clean, as it created and loads the SGOTM 10 saves OK. They use BUFFY, but the assets check would fail on the standard assets as well if they had been corrupted.

Same error here. I guess I'm stuck? The game creator sent me a test map I could open, and says the options are the same. Can't explain that.

Does the reverse hold? Can a locked-assets save created on a Mac be opened in BtS windows?

The game creator sent me a test map I could open, and says the options are the same. Can't explain that.
Was that the one you posted in the BUG discussion thread? If so, I don't think it had locked assets. I was able to open that one if I didn't have BUG in CustomAssets.
Does the reverse hold? Can a locked-assets save created on a Mac be opened in BtS windows?
I doubt it, but trying it now ... Nope, it fails. Not really surprising. If the checksums are wrong the mismatch will apply in both directions.

[UPDATE] I have raised a support ticket with Aspyr on this. If others do so as well, then perhaps they will take it seriously.

I have a PBEM running with BtS 3.19. I'm running my Mac with Snow Leopard, the other players run Windows. It works, but no admin password is set. In a democracy game, where the admin password is used, it is not possible to open the saves on the Mac.

I think that confirms the findings. Setting the admin password presumably locks the assets. It certainly does in a single player game.

Yeah, that's how we resolved it. Thanks for opening the ticket with Aspyr.

Was that the one you posted in the BUG discussion thread? If so, I don't think it had locked assets. I was able to open that one if I didn't have BUG in CustomAssets.

I doubt it, but trying it now ... Nope, it fails. Not really surprising. If the checksums are wrong the mismatch will apply in both directions.

[UPDATE] I have raised a support ticket with Aspyr on this. If others do so as well, then perhaps they will take it seriously.
I have also submitted a ticket with Aspyr support regarding this issue.

"I have been playing in a PBEM with 6 other players. Recently I installed CivIV (1.74), Warlords (2.13), and Civ BTS (3.19) on my Mac (MacBook Pro, Intel, Mac OS X 10.6.2 Snow Leopard) under the impression I would be able to play PBEM games. However, when I attempt to open my turn's game file, I receive the following error:

The save file you have selected is protected to ensure the assets in your mod folder have not been changed."

I had no feedback from my ticket, so I went to Aspyr Support and found that it had been closed and the status was 'resolved'. I have added a request for information on the resolution or workround for this problem.

Wow, that's sad. They never sent you any kind of notification?

Over the holiday, Aspyr support was closed and the site was unavailable. Today, I logged in to check the status of my ticket and it was closed without comment.

Here is my correspondence on the subject:


Files created in Windows BtS v3.19 with Locked Assets will not open in the Mac version. And the same applies in the other direction.

The trick you did to get this to work in earlier versions required a lookup table to convert between the Mac and WIndows assets checksums. It looks as if you may have got the conversion table wrong when you upgraded to v3.19.

Please note that I am testing with no mods loaded in either Mac or Windows versions of BtS.


I note that you have closed this ticket and described it as "Resolved". I have had no correspondence on this issue, and as far as I am aware there has been no resolution. Other users are experiencing the same problem.

Please advise what the resolution or workround is for this problem.


Hello Alan,

Thank you for contacting Aspyr Tech Support!

Please contact 2K Games support for any cross platform issues. They provide the original base code for the game so that we can port it for Mac users.

Feel free to contact us with any further comments or issues.

Thank you,

Aspyr Tech Support


Hello

I have raised a ticket with Aspyr as follows:

Copy of above messages

It is my understanding that the Mac version of the game has to provide some internal workround in order for cross-platform locked assets games to work, since this capability is not built into the Firaxis game design. But Aspyr seems to think it is your problem even though they have provided the workround for previous versions, so I am contacting you for comment.

For background, I am the Mac forum moderator at forums.civfanatics.com, and I also administer the Game of the Month competitions there for Windows and Mac players. As far as I know, this problem affects all attempts to play cross-platform BtS games with locked assets - PBEM, succession, networked multiplayer, pitboss ...


Hi AlanH,

Your question has been received. You should expect a response from us within 72 hours.

Kind Regards,

Customer Support Take 2 Interactive

As a week has passed since the above message, I have sent a request for status.

UPDATE

My request to Take2 support for a status update produced the following classic script-monkey response:


Hello,

To further assist you with your issue we require you to send us a DXDIAG report from your computer. To do this:

- Hold down the Windows key on the keyboard and press "R".
- Type "dxdiag" and click OK.
- This will open the DirectX Diagnostic Tool.
- Click the Save All Information button at the bottom.
- Save the file to your Desktop with the name "dxdiag.txt".
- Reply to this email with this file attached.

Kind regards,


I replied:


Thanks for your reply. I think you are missing the point entirely.

A. This is not about display issues, it, about problems with locked assets

B. The problem arises between the Windows and Mac versions of the software when a saved game file is transferred between them.

C. A Mac doesn't have a Windows key and it doesn't run DirectX.

D. Your developers or management need to talk to Aspyr to resolve this issue. It is NOT amenable to your standard diagnostic script.

Response from Take2 support:

Dear AlanH,

We don't support games installed on the Mac as Mac games are published by Aspyr, I have no information with regards to cross platform compatibility as we only support the PC version of the game.


I added a comment to my closed Aspyr ticket giving them Take2's previous response and pointing out that this ball is in their court. Aspyr have now *deleted* my ticket!

I've opened a new Aspyr ticket complaining about their deletion of my previous ticket, quoting the above Take2 message, and asking if we can now assume that cross-platform play is no longer supported for Beyond the Sword.

Alan, my deep respect to you for bothering Aspyr and Take2! Many thanks!

Thanks are only due if I achieve something. So far it's my head vs. two brick walls.

[UPDATE] ... and Aspyr have closed my new ticket without comment.

Soo...does anyone know what my recourse might be, now that I have purchased software that is worthless to me, since i'm playing in 15 PBEM games that have been going on for years and now must purchase it again for a BootCamp partition?

Alan, you ROCK! What terrible service from these companies.

I've had the same issue and will put in a ticker with Aspyr

Sorry, thetattoo...

UPDATE


On 7 Dec 2009, at 18:30, support@aspyr.com wrote:

Hello,

We are not receiving any other support requests for this issue.
Does the problem you are describing make cross platform play impossible?

Thanks for contacting Aspyr Media.


I am surprised you have no other players reporting this issue. At least one other user claims to have raised a ticket for PBEM, and has reported that his ticket was closed without comment, like mine. See posts 10 and 13 in this thread in the CivFanatics forum: <http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=341652>.

It makes cross-platform play with a locked assets game impossible. If you don't lock the assets then there is nothing to stop a competitor in the game using a mod that changes game rules to his/her advantage. So this makes cross-platform play impractical outside a trusted community.

Regards

Alan

Please make sure you report issues to Aspyr. If they don't know about them they can't fix them. I'm not a player, so I am not even reporting first-hand experience.

Put in my ticket last night.

What do you mean you're "not a player."

What do you mean you're "not a player."I mean exactly that. I used to play Civ3, I try to support Mac users here and in the Civ3 forum, and I help to run the GOTM series of competitions. I own every version of Civ3 and Civ4 for Mac and Windows so that I can help. But I don't play Civ4.

UPDATE

On 8 Dec 2009, at 18:31, support@aspyr.com wrote:

Hello,

And this is something that you have a considerable number of people expressing concern about?
You have actually seen instances of the Mac community using mods to manipulate multi-player games?
If so, what mods? And how does one apply these mods to the Mac version of the game?


Thanks for contacting Aspyr Media.


Mods can be applied to the Mac version of the game simply by adding them to one of the two Mods folders installed by the software. A single XML file can be used to change the attributes of a unit type, a building, or a Civ. Players cannot use this to manipulate results in well-managed multiplayer games, because those games have the assets locked. A Mac player will simply not be able to join in such a game because the Windows versions of the game believe they are playing with non-standard sottware.

It was my understanding that, up until the release of version 3.19, you were supporting the major features of Civ4 and its expansions, including locked-assets cross-platform play. If this is no longer the case, and you do not intend to do anything about it, then please just say so, rather than closing my tickets with no comment or explanation.

Regards

Alan


AND ...

On 8 Dec 2009, at 22:02, support@aspyr.com wrote:

Hello,

We do not support the use of mods in any way, shape or form with any of our games. We do not test them, therefor we cannot support any adverse effects of the application of mods. If a Mac player who has used mods (any mods) and therefore cannot connect to another multiplayer game because the addition of these, this is not we do not support.

Thanks for contacting Aspyr Media.


I absolutely, explicitly told you in my original ticket that my testing for this compatibility issue was done without any mods. The whole point of the Locked Assets feature is to prevent the use of mods in a multiplayer game.

Let's try this one more time,.

1. Player #1 starts a PBEM game using a plain, unmodded copy of Civ4 BtS version 3.19. He locks the assets when he starts the game, which causes the game software to calculate a checksum across various key files and save the result in the saved game file.

2. If any of the PBEM competitors try to use a mod to gain an unfair advantage, then their game software will calculate a different checksum value, and will refuse to load the saved game. This protects the players against cheats, and is a basic capability of the Civ4 family of products.

3. Player #1 plays his first turn and passes the saved game to Player #2.

4. Player #2 is also using a plain, unmodded copy of Civ4 BtS version 3.19 and attempts to load the saved game to play his turn. This ought to work, as both players are using plain, unmodified copies of BtS version 3.19.

There are now three possible combinations of Mac and WIndows software to consider:

5. If Player #1 and Player #2 are both running Windows software from Firaxis, then the checksums will agree and the save will load.

6. If Player #1 and Player #2 are both running Mac software from Aspyr, then the checksums will agree and the save will load

7. If one of them is running Mac software from Aspyr and the other is running Windows software from Firaxis then Player #2's software calculates a checksum that disagrees with the one saved in Player #1's saved game file, and Player #2's software will NOT load the saved game file.

This problem only exists with BtS version 3.19. If the players use any version of Civ4 older than BtS version 3.19, then the save will load OK in Step #7.

Regards

Alan

I don't know if I can keep up this level of patience in the face of blind obstinacy/stupidity.

Alan, do you have a ticket number that I can reference when I file a bug report?

My original ticket was:

[aspyr #ASU-80404-370]: BtS 3.19 will not read Windows Locked Assets files

The latest one was:

[aspyr #LBZ-80061-252]: BtS 3.19 Cross-platform incompatibility

Today, I have finally received a relevant response to my messages:


We have tested this out and have only NOT been able to play a PBEM game when you set the game up with a password. This happens with or without the locked assets option enabled.
All other MP aspects of the game work fine.
Again, the only time we get a failure in PBEM games is if the user created a password for the game. When we do not create a password, we are able to play PBEM without issue. So as far as we can tell, the issue has more to do with a password being created than turning on or off the locked modified assets option. We were able to play PBEM games with or without the "Lock Modified Assets" option turned on.

The tool tip for "Lock Modified Assets" actually says:
"Sets a random admin passwords so that debug tools cannot be used, and he game assets cannot be modified. Only for Single Player games" (see attached screenshot).
It actually does NOT create a random password. The functionality (as far as we can tell) is set up to merely warn the player that some files differ from their opponents. This does not prevent you from playing the game.

When we played a LAN game we did get the warning tag that some files were different between the Mac and the PC even when none of the files were modified. Even when we got this message, we were still able to play the game. Receiving this message in any instance did not prevent us from continuing to play the game.

I recommend not creating a password for PBEM games or not using this option at all since it doesn't seem to make a difference in game.
The files are flagged as different even if no files have been added or modified.

You guys may want to take this onwards, as I don't know what problems the above restrictions will cause in a real multiplayer situation.

Here's their response to me.

Hello,

Thank you for your patience.

It appears that there are conflict problems with the patch and the Play by Email. We are looking into this issue and hopefully will have a work around for you soon.

Again, thank you for your patience.

Looks promising!

Received the same response from Aspyr this morning. At least there appears to be some movement.

Hello,

Thank you for your patience.

It appears that there are conflict problems with the patch and the Play by Email. We are looking into this issue and hopefully will have a work around for you soon.

Again, thank you for your patience.