We must determine the shape of our provincial boundaries!

The following border proposals have been offered in recent weeks and are submitted here for your consideration. Please review these maps if you are unfamiliar with them and select the one you feel best benefits all of Fanatika.

Small Provinces by Stuck_As_a_Mac (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=523101)
Original Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=523101#post523101)
One of the first maps, with provinces extending south into Aztec lands.

Capitol Access by disorganizer (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=534589)
Original Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=534589#post534589)
Geographically based borders providing almost-equal access to the corruption benefits of the capitol city.

Strictly Geographic by FortyJ (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/fanatika-1450bc-borderprop1.jpg)
Original Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=536259#post536259)
Another geographically based proposal resulting in somewhat larger provinces.

Capitol Province by FortyJ (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/fanatika-1450bc-borderprop2.jpg)
Original Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=536267#post536267)
This map provides a city-state type province for Bavaria with three neighboring, geographically based provinces.

Nordic Gem Mountains by Chieftess (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Fanatika_province_map_1450.jpg)
Original Post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=539625#post539625)
This map combines geographical boundaries with cultural and political borders.

Choose wisely. The decisions we make affect the destinies of generations of Fanatikans to come...

EDIT: Added links to original posts.

i took capitol province by forty. as it will equal corruption in 4 provinces. i would otherwise tend to his second proposal.

i was also tending to ct's proposal, but i thought it would be unfair to only have 1 uncorrupted province.

FortyJ, are you in the Domestic Department? I would accept this, but I doubt know if it is allowed.

I also took capital province by forty. It's the same as the one I put up except his looks better. ;)

@Zarn - You don't need to be in the Domestic Department to propose a set of borders. You can safely pick forty's if that's the one you like.

I'm really undecided right between Chieftess and FortyJ's right now.
@Shaitan- I'm just checking. I don't want people to vote on a proposal and then have someone come in and say it's not valid.

It is a valid poll.

The source conversations are referenced, at least indirectly, and those conversations have gone on the required periods of time.

I think it is a very good thing for citizens to step forward and push an issue that need deciding, and soon.

Bill
Chief Justice

Thanks Bill.

All I'm trying to do is speed this process along. It's been going on for what seems like an eternity. We need to resolve this so that we can focus on more important matters (like the Aztecs, expansion, etc...)

I also was torn between CT's idea and the capital province approach.

I went with the latter, as the uniqueness of the idea is appealing, and I would like to see how it works out. Excellent work by everyone who contributed to the discussion.

i voted for chieftesss proposal, but forty js strictly geographic was a close second.

hmm.. beat me to polling, eh forty?
thanks for doing this. originally, i was going to wait until tomorrow, but seeing as you did it, im voting. I voted for CTs proposal, wishing that it was multi-opp to vote for 40's geograpich proposal.

Stuck - yeah, we were debating about doing a multiopp poll, but decided to bite the bullet and force the issue.

@Zarn: I work for the cartographic office, which is an office of the domestic department. And the cartographic office started the thread, and i asked for someone to put up a poll finally before we continue that endless discussion :-P
So yes, this poll is, even if only indirectly, sponsored by the domestic department. Even if that is not needed :-P

I believe that this should be an informaitional poll, with the final pick being voted on in the yes/no/abstain format.

Also, if anyone cares, the problems I have with both of FortyJ's map and CT's are that all of them name the provinces. None of them should have names; rather, all, other than Bohemia, need to be labelled #2, #3, etc.

The first governors of each province retain the right to name them, rather than the cartographers. If you want to name a province, become governor!

True, true. Anyway, it looks like im incharge. Good or bad?
Note- i do not expect an answer to that.

Those are just temporary names, so we know what we're talking about when we say "The gem province" rather than "CT's Province 4". It makes memorizing the provinces a bit easier. (and discussing them too)

Exactly. Noone is trying to usurp any naming rights. The names are unofficial and are solely intended to facilitate discussions.

So now be realistic.... The maps are here to decide borders, not the names.
If we continue to discuss this one to death (we already delayed it for a whole term!!!) we will never have provinces defined.
I say we go with the province borders decided on in this poll. It is official, and it is definitely defined right and BINDING!
Of course, the names are only examples, as they have to be defined by the 1st governor.

I think this is a great poll! This issue does have to be nailed down. I voted for the strictly geographical proposal. I do like Chieftess's Nordic lands and Gem Mountains. the latter can become a reality later on I hope. :king:

i havent seen any problems yet with delaying the issue endlessly. :-)

When this poll ends, im declacring the winner the borders. Ive had enough of this going on endlessly.

well, i believe we still need another 2 votes to quorum?

Quite right, dis. Thank you for pointing that out.

Quorum means nothing here, except to validate this informational poll. It is not a binding poll as it was not set up by a Leader. If the arguement that 40j is some how connected to the Domestic Dept. is brought up, then the poll should have followed proper poll procedures. If the Third Reich Domestic Dept. wants to shove its opinion down our throats, at least use the proper protocols. You can' keep using these half-assed attempts of polling to substaniate your agenda. Do it the right way and be accountable for your actions.

@cyc: now what part of the poll did not meet the polling standards?

1) it is posted (indirectly) by the domestic department
2) pre discussion (Very long!) was held
3) a link to pre-discussion is contained
4) all options are included
5) abstain is included

now where is the point which invalidates that poll? only burocracy?

:) Figure it out, Dis. THAT is not my job anymore. If you need help, there is the Constitution, the PSC, and the OPR. Good luck.

will two people please vote here so we can hit quorm and stop bickering? Also- 40 works for domestic. hes our main mapmaker, so, thus the poll is valid, but not finalized.
Also- where is our governor?

Havent seen him till just before the last chat. Propably captured by the aztecs?

Cyc is actually correct, and i must reverse my opinion on the legality of this poll.

Unfortunately this poll cannot be considered official and binding right out of the box. While I do not agree that a official poll can only be posted by a leader (the constitution guarentees citizens the right to poll on any topic, and the CoS on official polls does not limit them to leaders), there are a few requirements that must be met.

The laws require the proposed text of the poll to be posted in the discussion thread for a minimum of 24hrs prior to posting the poll. Unfortunately that is clearly not done for this poll.

The length of time the poll will be open must be included in the opening thread, and that is not done here.

Also, all proposals in that thread must be discussed for at least 24 hrs, and that may be violated here.

This poll is very effective as an informational, and the will of the people will be expressed here. I would expect the Domestic Leader to take heed, while I applaud FortyJ and his contributors for pushing forward a process that is loooooonnnnngggg overdue.

Bill
Chief Justice

*sigh*

*oy*

Bill asked that I post my opinion as Public Defender on whether this meets the requirements to be a binding and official poll.

I see that it does not, as outlined by Bill above. I encourage the proponents to note the requirements of an official poll before posting. In the mean time, I urge the leaders to respect the results of this informational poll while the matter is resolved officially.

Danke
Public Defender

*sigh* well if we had posted it as quick poll (which is eligable) we would have it officially and binding then by now :-P

Well, I can see your point dis, but Quick Polling is for items that are time critical in nature, and I can't see how we could justify that given how long we have dragged our feet on this already.

Why can't our Domestic Leader simply post his official poll?