This module is included in Wildmana by Default. Since it uses Python it is not fully modular yet and can't be removed easily.

Goals:
Make the Bannor more unique (especially before the time before they get their unique Conquest Civic).
Increase their ability to start an early crusade

Civtrait:
Guardsman renamed in Endless Devotion
Free Guardsman Promotion
Gain Followers when conquering a city

Leaders:

Sabathiel (unchanged)
Capria (unchanged)
Tethira (Industrious, Magic Resistant, Great Leader)
Angaad (General, Emergent)
Decius (unchanged)

Unique Buildings:


Chapel(replaces pagan temple): 2 priest slots, special effect in crusade


Unique Units:


Cleric. requires Chapel, national Limit depends on Religios Techs known (start 2, maximum 4), 3 :strength:, can use metal weapons, starts with medic3, can cast Heal
other Bannor UU same as base FFH


Tweaks:
Demagogs from Crusade start with metal promotions


thanks to Rystic, Iceiro, Opera, Valkrionn for ideas/code

Makes me wonder how powerful an Esus Bannor could be right now.

Just wanna drop a big kudos to whoever came up with the whole Cleric idea.
This is so much fun compared to the old, dull Bannor.

That would be Iceciro initially, I believe, assuming the unit wasn't altered from how it is in FF and RifE. ;)

I don't like Clerics though, giving them a unit with medic3 so soon seems really wrong. sure you can only have 4, but do you really need more? easy access to such a powerful promotion takes away from the usefulness of priest units and especially Grigori Medics ( and besides it's not like the Grigori have an overload of cool stuff right now :p ) imho.

Gekko;8658781']I don't like Clerics though, giving them a unit with medic3 so soon seems really wrong. sure you can only have 4, but do you really need more? easy access to such a powerful promotion takes away from the usefulness of priest units and especially Grigori Medics ( and besides it's not like the Grigori have an overload of cool stuff right now :p ) imho.

I would have to agree here. I would make him stronger (+2 holy) and set his national limit one. That way if he does kick the bucket he can be rebuilt.

Hmm... I'd actually do this (Yes, this may end up in RifE now that I've remembered the idea :lol:):


National unit, limited to 1.
As you gain techs, he gains free promotions which grant increased strength. Preserves his relevance.
Renamed Patriarch.
Gains the ability to rally your coreligionists into a Crusade

Essentially, if you're at war you can pull civs who follow your religion into war with you... Unless you are at war with a member of your own religion, in which case I think the Patriarch would refuse to fight.


Should tie the Bannor more to the 'Crusade' feel, and encourage them to wage religious wars even before they unlock the Crusade civic. All of which is very thematic, and should be fun. :goodjob:

Alternatively, rather than a national limit have him be a Bannor-specific upgrade to the Great Priest.

I like about it that you can build them rather early and ofc the healing spell.
Ofc with 4 medics even split in 2 groups you can heal a lot, but it's more useful for defense and I'd say there are much more powerful combinations in relation to the game-time they appear, which are also more useful for attacking.

It just feels like a rather unique gameplay mechanic to me compared to a lot of the other civs' early games, and reducing the cleric to one, more powerful unit already takes away from that, especially because you can cast heal only once a round.

I also don't get the comparisson with the grigori medics by Gekko.
Can the Grigori build clerics aswell and or are you suggesting that the Grigori need some more fancy stuff aswell?
I'd wholeheartly agree with the latter.


I agree though that heal-spell + medic 3 could be too much.
How about giving the cleric medic 1 and the ability to promote to medic 2 and 3?
That way you don't have medic 3, when you build them early and have to level or rebuild them later.

just saying that one of the unique traits of the Grigori is having access to the Grigori Medic UU that has medic3 ( which gives access to heal IIRC ) , which is vital since they can't get priests. giving easy and early access to a unit with the same exceptionally useful promos to the bannor makes the Grigori pale in comparison. I'd give the Bannor something different, and I also think that the Luonnatar need to get something that makes them useful cuz right now they really suck. Dispel would be good for them for example, I would also give them 2 promos that would be Angelslayer and Demonslayer I guess.

I see no lore justification for the Cleric unit whatsoever. While a deeply religious society, the Bannor priests are not supposed to that significant a part of their army. The Malakim are dominated by priests, the Bannor are dominated by melee units and knights led by priests.


Giving the Bannor a Patriarch UU would fit them much better thematically.




I still like making the Luonnatar physically weaker, but making them come sooner, be able to target disciple units in stacks of stronger units, have demon slaying and angel slaying, and loosing the Command, Channeling, and Inquisitor promotion in exchange for 2 unit specific Enlighten spells, one that can remove even state regions from cities and one that can make nearby units loose their religions (with a small chance of making the units switch sides, and become Luonnatar if the unit was a priest). I might also give them access to Force magic spells like Temperance and Repel Divine.

Idea for the Grigori from above

Chaplain unit gainable at Priesthood that can make the enemy lose its religion with a chance of changing sides.

Luannators targeting disciple-class units first would be nice also.

I just started a new game as the Bannor and it's only letting me build one Cleric. When I try to build a 2nd (the option is available in the city production list), it queues it up, then next turn tells me that I can no longer continue working on it. I only have two cities. And only one of them is trying to build a Cleric.

Any ideas?

I just started a new game as the Bannor and it's only letting me build one Cleric. When I try to build a 2nd (the option is available in the city production list), it queues it up, then next turn tells me that I can no longer continue working on it. I only have two cities. And only one of them is trying to build a Cleric.

OK. There is definitely something messed up with the Clerics. I built a third city, and it could producse one Cleric. My other cities still had the same results. However, after I built that one Cleric, my third city also started having the same issue!

I believe the limit of clerics increases based on techs you research, no?

From the release notes:


Bannor+: Number of available Clerics depends on Religios Techs known (same maximum 4 lategame)

I believe the limit of clerics increases based on techs you research, no?

From the release notes:

Ah. I see. That info wasn't conveyed in-game or in this thread. Thanks!

in the civilopedia description for "endless devotion" , it says that "the bannor may adopt the conquest civic" . what does that mean? :lol:

It means other civs can't.

you're confusing it with Crusade :D

Assuming it's the same tag from Orbis (or is it LENA?) that I was looking at earlier, it allows them to adopt Conquest without needing the tech prereqs.

it should be crusade. already fixed by Saathei :)

Playing 7.55, which has Crusade moved to that special civics category... I am having odd behaviour which is either WAD (in which case this "Bannor+" thread may need updating) or a bug.

1. Demagogues do spawn during crusade, with metal weapons. However, they often abandon basically on the same turn, or the second turn, after building. What's with that?

2. Sometimes rather than Demagogues, Crusaders will pop up in towns. Y'know, the guys with the Disciple class, +1 holy damage and all that. Except these ones get metal weapons! Yeah, I have plenty of other normal crusaders who spawn as followers when capturing towns, or built due to the Order religion, but none of them have metal. I sort of suspect that whatever makes Demagogues spawn with metal weapons, is catching these Crusaders too.

3. Those "metal Crusaders" mentioned above stick around after your Crusade is over. I never had any Demagogues survive / not-abandon more than 2 turns, so I do not know whether they would have abandoned me too.

4. Flagbearers. Couldn't build them during a Crusade. I don't think I was missing anything in terms of tech or strategic resources, I wonder if moving around the Crusade civic unhitched these guys from whatever used to permit their being built.

... Again, as you can see, maybe half these items or more are WAD, like maybe Crusaders are supposed to spawn, or maybe Flagbearers have been trimmed without fanfare, can't say. Figured the "Bannor+" thread the best place to give feedback, get clarification, etc.

thanks for reporting these issues.

1. is a bug, will be fixed. you can manually fix it by adding this to assets\xml\globaldefinesalt.xml (breaks saves)

<Define>
<DefineName>MAX_CIVIC_OPTIONS</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>6</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>


2. if your state religion is order, some demagogs will be crusaders. I guess it's ok that crusaders from a crusade are stronger than normal crusaders.

3. crusaders will never abandon. If it is too powerful I can reduce the % chance to spawn crusaders during crusade.

4. also a bug. Fix for #1 also should fix this.

Re: 1&4 - cool, and easy fix.

Re: 2 - unlisted Tweak or two there, of use only for "Order" Bannor. I like it for flavor, in terms of the idea being a Crusade may mean Crusaders. Something in the back of my mind makes me wonder if the "armed forces" types of each religion might deserve equivalents, like the Crusading ROK Bannor might deserve Soldiers or Paramanders popping in towns, Radiant Guards or Rathas popping in Empyrean Bannor crusades etc., but that may just be silly trying to "equal" every religion. Like why would Stygians pop in your towns, or Satyrs... bleh. The Crusaders having metal is kind of interesting, but can also be removed and NEVER reacquired due to a Rust spell. Basically a buff which might serve them for awhile, but is not guaranteed forever esp. against cracking towns that have Adepts casting Rust in them (Sheaim, Balseraphs I've seen are good at this).

Re: 3 - it didn't seem too powerful as it wasn't awfully reliable... yeah, free units FOREVER are nice and all, but you should probably also have a lot of units you paid good hammers for dying in a Crusade as well.

Re: 2 - unlisted Tweak or two there, of use only for "Order" Bannor. I like it for flavor, in terms of the idea being a Crusade may mean Crusaders. Something in the back of my mind makes me wonder if the "armed forces" types of each religion might deserve equivalents, like the Crusading ROK Bannor might deserve Soldiers or Paramanders popping in towns, Radiant Guards or Rathas popping in Empyrean Bannor crusades etc., but that may just be silly trying to "equal" every religion.
that's actually what happens (paramanders and Rathas). the whole idea/code was made by Rystic (tweakmod).

3. crusaders will never abandon. If it is too powerful I can reduce the % chance to spawn crusaders during crusade.

Oh Christ, I never thought of this.