This thread is going to be under-construction for a while since there are a lot of units to get through...

I have said I would try and come up with an overall unit art plan. It is going to take a while to get all my thoughts on the subject down, but I thought I'd make a start anyway.

Guardsmen (as of Dune Wars 1.6.4)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=234619&stc=1&d=1258484296
From left-to-right, back-to-front:
Heavy Trooper, Lasgun Soldier, Lasgun Trooper
Rocket Trooper, Missile Trooper, Mongoose Trooper, Bee Sting trooper
Soldier, Infantry, Master Guardsmen, Grenade Trooper

Soldier
Current: Navy Seal headswap, too 21st century and not very Dunish.
Plan: New Model and Skin, uses new pistol animations
Concept: I would like this unit to look like a survivor of the Great Catastrophe. The unit should look battered, in tattered, worn-out clothing, the remnants of a uniform or desert robes perhaps. The unit should not look professional equipped or attired. The armament should be only a salvaged pistol. Colours should be dusty, sandy, browns, etc.
Priority: Medium

Infantry
Current: The current unit is high quality (looks like Sezereth? Was this a one off or are there more like this somewhere?).
Plan: New Model and Skin
Concept: This unit should looks slight better equipped and more organized rather than just being a survivor. It is still too early for smart uniforms though, so the clothing should still be salvaged remnants and desert robes.
Priority: Medium

Master Guardsmen
Current: Gasmasks don't really makes sense and the flamethrower anim doesn't seem to work very well or be suited.
Plan: New Model and Skin
This unit should look like an experienced veteran compared to the first two Guardsmen. Perhaps the first vestiges of a simple uniform can be seen.
Priority: Medium

Grenade Trooper
Current: It's Boba Fett with a grenade. The NIF is a bit screwed up, but I should be able to fix that. The model seems essentially OK so we can probably just reskin this one.
Plan: Reskin
Priority: High

Rocket Trooper/Missile Trooper
Current: Very nice unit, but I don't like having the same model shared and it would probably look even nicer with a light sandy/biege/brown reskin for the desert environment. The current skins are a bit dark.
Plan: Reskin and use for Rocket Trooper, New Model and Skin for Missile Trooper
Concept for Missile Trooper: I guess something pretty similar, but with perhaps more armour and a more impressive looking launcher. All Launchers should have decent effects so it looks like they are actually launching something - if they don't already.
Priority: Medium

Mongoose Trooper
Current: I think this model is pretty good although the weapon is not very sci-fi. We can look to replace the weapon perhaps, but for now a reskin away from jungle colours to a more deserty look would be nice.
Plan: Reskin (maybe more impressive weapon later)
Priority: Medium

Bee Sting Trooper
Current: Again I think model is fine (Next War Anti Tank Infantry), but in order to try and achieve more consistency I suggest we reskin. We could even have some yellow and black on the uniform or weapon to fit with the unit name, not too much as a completely yellow and black unit will probably be too garish.
Plan: Reskin
Priority: Medium

Heavy Trooper
Current: Too weedy and I don't really like brilliant white colour units in the Dune context. This one really sticks out badly at the moment.
Plan: New Model and Skin - perhaps reskinned Lasgun Trooper
Concept: Something that looks like it heavy duty - heavy weaponry (although still projectile based) and heavy armour. Potentially could use the current Lasgun Trooper as a base.
Priority: High

Lasgun Soldier
Current: It's just weird - what is it?
Plan: Custom Model and Skin
Concept: More sophicasted looking armour and a weapon that looks obviously more high-tech than previous units' guns. Of course, getting a good laser muzzle flash effect and laser projectile effect will be important, and a nice not-too-cheesy laser sound effect too.
Priority: High

Lasgun Trooper
(I think it would be nice to come up with a better name for this unit since it is the most advanced Guardsman unit in the mod and Lasgun Trooper and Lasgun Solider are just too similar.)
Current: The model seems pretty decent - uses Marine animations - skin not great and doesn't fit the Dune environment.
Plan: Reskin - but use the reskinned version for the Heavy Trooper and get a more impressive model for this unit.
Concept: A custom unit should have even more impressive looking armour and weaponry than the Lasgun Soldier.
Priority: High

Melee unit art overview

1.7.2.5:

Roller: Use RPG Striker from the EE2 Future Units kit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322227), reskinned
Light Scorpion: The Paladin is OK, but I would prefer to find/make something with treads so that it looks like a light tank. Edit: In fact I quite like the Chimera from White Rabbit's Imperial Guard (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168039) tanks, we can remove the bulldozer easily enough.
Medium Scorpion: Use current Missile Launcher (the WH40K Rhino looking one) reskinned
Heavy Scorpion: Re-instate KrugerPritz's Mammoth as the Heavy Scorpion as it looks better than the EE2 Myrmidon.
Devastator: A reskin of the Next War Dreadnought would be an improvement on what we have.

Maula Mortar: This unit needs some fixing up so that it fires an actual mortar shell, plus a reskin would be good.
Rocket Artillery: The WH40K Manticore is good, but could use a reskin
Missile Launcher: Use Sunfire Launcher from the EE2 Future Units kit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322227), reskinned
Assault Cannon: Use current Medium Scorpion, reskinned

Thopters unit art overview

To round up the state of the Suspensor line as of 1.7.2.4:

1. I want to do some further work on the textures so that there is better use of team colour.
2. The problem with the desert colour scheme is that the icons are indistinguishable at small size. Need to do something about this.
3. The Suspensor Transport is just the Suspensor Gunship without a Turret. I want to do a bit more to distinguish them.
4. Haven't done much with Effects yet. I want to add a Suspensor glow below them as has been suggested. Also, a mixture of conventional and laser weapon effects as appropriate for the tech level of the unit.
5. I'd like to make the turrets pivot like the vanilla Tanks.
6. Obviously need to find a good Carrier. There is a Carrier in the Homeworld pack, but it is a bit epic.

Hornets unit art overview

Unique Units / Unique Resource Units unit art overview

Great People units

Espionage Units and Religion Units

Other units sandworms etc

Excellent idea Deliverator!

Rocket Trooper/Missile Trooper

It would be great if these guys actually fired their rocket launchers, rather than firing the gun in their other hand.

Great! :)

oh sweet, i really dont like some of the current art(that ive chosen long time ago).

I found a good base model for the Ordos Trike in the game Worldshift. After a bit of editing it's looking quite nice. I just need to complete the animations and attach effects and sound.

Excellent! Slvynn has updated the spy units. The most common remaining "C" grade units are heavy trooper, lasgun soldier, and lasgun trooper. You've mentioned pistol animations recently. The Warg, which you mentioned a while back, is not very needed anymore since Slvynn pointed out the sabretooth; I have put that in.

What is up next for unit art?

wow !
that looking great!!!!
Awesome!!! GJ Deliverator

I found a good base model for the Ordos Trike in the game Worldshift. After a bit of editing it's looking quite nice. I just need to complete the animations and attach effects and sound.

"Quite nice" is a quite nice understatement here :D.

OK, here's a art patch for Dune Wars 1.6.4 containing a few bits and bobs.

+ Ordos Trike (I made it a proper Ordos UU in CivilizationInfos as well)

+ Found/made better placeholders for heavy trooper, lasgun soldier, and lasgun trooper. The Heavy Trooper is a combination of the Modern Marine by mechaerik and our existing Lasgun Trooper. The Lasgun Soldier is our old Soldier model and the Lasgun Trooper is a reskin of our Infantry.

+ Lasgun Trooper/Soldier now both have a laser fire effect

+ Fixed Vulture Thopter always having green wings

+ Tiny tweak to main menu moon textures

The other thing I'm working on at the moment is a better effect for the Maula Mortar attack, might be ready for Tuesday, not sure yet.

:goodjob: :)

The trike looks great, but I notice the button-art for it is actually the picture of the Dune2 quad. Is there an equivalent picture of the Dune2 trike that could be used?

The trike looks great, but I notice the button-art for it is actually the picture of the Dune2 quad. Is there an equivalent picture of the Dune2 trike that could be used?

The Trike has its own unit button corresponding to the 3D art. The button you are noticing is the Desert Rovers tech button which Slvynn made out of the Dune 2 quad picture.

@ Deliverator, thanks for the trike UU bug fix, I missed that. I have made a large number of changes in my civ4unitinfos.xml file, and my merge program is showing a very messy comparison. In this file, I believe the only change you made is to change the art reference for trike. It was a duplicate of quad, now it has its own entry. Are there any other changes in unitinfos I may have missed?

@ Deliverator, thanks for the trike UU bug fix, I missed that. I have made a large number of changes in my civ4unitinfos.xml file, and my merge program is showing a very messy comparison. In this file, I believe the only change you made is to change the art reference for trike. It was a duplicate of quad, now it has its own entry. Are there any other changes in unitinfos I may have missed?

You are correct. The only change I made was to point the Trike to the new art define.

I know we have been hunting for more variety in sword attack animations. While hunting for something else, I found the "knightstemplar" animation set. I can't find this in any of our units. Perhaps it would be a good addition? Searching "templar" in the download database finds several; I looked into The_J's warriors of god (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12354) modcomp and the fanatic unit. Also, is it helpful to use the maceman? I don't think we are using that anywhere, but I am not sure how different it is from other anims.

I know we have been hunting for more variety in sword attack animations. While hunting for something else, I found the "knightstemplar" animation set. I can't find this in any of our units.

There is definitely a much greater variety of melee animation available than firearm ones. I'll factor this in when I start looking at making a more Dunish melee line.

I am going to be busy with wonders first, and after that I think the Suspensors are probably the next highest priority for unit art.

It would be great if these guys actually fired their rocket launchers, rather than firing the gun in their other hand.

It has taken a while (= a month and a half) to get around to this, but I've finally made the Rocket Troopers fire rockets. The animation now has both muzzle and exhaust effects, an actual rocket projectile and an explosion on impact. Altogether more satisfying to use! I've also reskinned the Rocket Trooper for more of a desert warfare feel.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=239136&d=1262537245

Find attached patch for 1.7.

superb unit d'!

It has taken a while (= a month and a half) to get around to this, but I've finally made the Rocket Troopers fire rockets. The animation now has both muzzle and exhaust effects, an actual rocket projectile and an explosion on impact. Altogether more satisfying to use! I've also reskinned the Rocket Trooper for more of a desert warfare feel.Really, really cool! You should release it in the unit art forum, I think a lot of other sci-fi-esque (like Mars, Now or Quot Capita etc.) might get good use out of it! :goodjob:

Cheers, LT.

Really, really cool! You should release it in the unit art forum, I think a lot of other sci-fi-esque (like Mars, Now or Quot Capita etc.) might get good use out of it! :goodjob:

Cheers, LT.

Do you really think, that i do not look in here ;)?

-> nice unit. But i don't have an idea, for what i could use it at the moment :dunno:.

Fantastic work.

A preview of the units I have been working on today.

The Suspensor Gunship, Suspensor Frigate, No Ship and Monitor Warship are all adapted from the Homeworld 2 pack posted the database by Phaedris. I'm hoping to replace at least 3 of the other Suspensor vessels with art adapted from that set.

The Howitzer is a reskin of the Self Propelled Artillery from the EE2 Future Units kit.

I'll use this Amazon Swordswoman as our Fish Speaker unit for now, until I can customize something a bit more Dunish. Are there any good descriptions of what the Fish Speakers look like in the books?

I'll put these in a incremental patch by the end of tomorrow, once I've made buttons and done a few other bits.

Nice work; another thing which could use some work are the Atreides Ducal Guard units. It would be great to get some kind of reskinned Hoplite types.

superb units!!!

Looks cool.
I don't remember entirely what the Fish Speakers look like, by by how they act in the book and personal interpretation is that they look similar to the Qizarat in Children of Dune, but with a more 'survivalist' edge. Eg: No more flowing robes or finery. Just a simple tight cut black robe with a stylized fish verticaly embroidered on the chest of their robes. I have not a clue how cannon that is though.

Some other random thoughts on art (low priority!!):
1. Heavy trooper unit is just a lone figure, whereas almost every other infantry is groups of 3.
2. The rocket/missile animations are cool, but I don't suppose there is a small explosion animation anywhere that could be added to the end? It looks like the rockets are knocking guys over.
3. I'd really like to see the art style of the Shield Trooper extended; the 19th century military uniform look works really well for "professional" soldier types. I wonder if this could be extended for some of the other high-end units (melee especially).

1. Heavy trooper unit is just a lone figure, whereas almost every other infantry is groups of 3.

I changed this in 1.7.2.4. XML changes are easy... :)

The rocket/missile animations are cool, but I don't suppose there is a small explosion animation anywhere that could be added to the end? It looks like the rockets are knocking guys over.

Well, the Rocket Trooper's rocket does explode at the end. The problem is that it isn't possible to have units die in a different way depending on how they are attacked.

I'd really like to see the art style of the Shield Trooper extended; the 19th century military uniform look works really well for "professional" soldier types. I wonder if this could be extended for some of the other high-end units (melee especially).

Me too. I think a uniformed look is what we want. First though, I want to do the shield effect. The fantasy units I've been doing have given me a really good way to do this which I want to test out.

To round up the state of the Suspensor line as of 1.7.2.4:

1. I want to do some further work on the textures so that there is better use of team colour.
2. The problem with the desert colour scheme is that the icons are indistinguishable at small size. Need to do something about this.
3. The Suspensor Transport is just the Suspensor Gunship without a Turret. I want to do a bit more to distinguish them.
4. Haven't done much with Effects yet. I want to add a Suspensor glow below them as has been suggested. Also, a mixture of conventional and laser weapon effects as appropriate for the tech level of the unit.
5. I'd like to make the turrets pivot like the vanilla Tanks.
6. Obviously need to find a good Carrier. There is a Carrier in the Homeworld pack, but it is a bit epic.

Other unit proof of concepts I want to do:
1. I have a good idea for putting Civ logos as well as just their team colour onto units without having 9 copies of the NIF. It would be cool if we could have vehicles with Civ-specific insignia so I want to try that out.
2. I like to make a Face Dancer which periodically fades between different heads. This is actually quite straight-forward to do.

Lots of other artistic ideas floating around, but that'll do for now...

These ships are cool.

I've started to remake the lost model of the ship from Dune movie I've made earlier. And now when I know how to animate units, I can make something decent out of it.

http://i39.tinypic.com/etif86.png

As you see by "abcdefgh..." applied texture, I've just started putting texture mapping on it, but it already has animations (based on Final Frontier defense ship right now) so I will be able to finish it soon.

Am I the only one who thinks that Assault Cannon looks like a common truck with a missile launcher-shaped thing on top and not a cannon at all, and Rocket Artillery and Missile Launcher which come before it look much more advanced and menacing?

Am I the only one who thinks that Assault Cannon looks like a common truck with a missile launcher-shaped thing on top and not a cannon at all, and Rocket Artillery and Missile Launcher which come before it look much more advanced and menacing?

Yeah, the Artillery and Vehicles Art need a bit of sorting out. This has not been improved by some of the renaming we have done recently.

My rough plan would be:

Roller: Use RPG Striker from the EE2 Future Units kit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322227), reskinned
Light Scorpion: The Paladin is OK, but I would prefer to find/make something with treads so that it looks like a light tank. Edit: In fact I quite like the Chimera from White Rabbit's Imperial Guard (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168039) tanks, we can remove the bulldozer easily enough.
Medium Scorpion: Use current Missile Launcher (the WH40K Rhino looking one) reskinned
Heavy Scorpion: Re-instate KrugerPritz's Mammoth as the Heavy Scorpion as it looks better than the EE2 Myrmidon.
Devastator: A reskin of the Next War Dreadnought would be an improvement on what we have.

Maula Mortar: This unit needs some fixing up so that it fires an actual mortar shell, plus a reskin would be good.
Rocket Artillery: The WH40K Manticore is good, but could use a reskin
Missile Launcher: Use Sunfire Launcher from the EE2 Future Units kit (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322227), reskinned
Assault Cannon: Use current Medium Scorpion, reskinned

Do you plan to have different textures for various troopers for different nations?

In the movie they all had distinct uniforms, so I think it would be nice to have them to use the same model but different uniforms, it would add to the immersion.

For example, current soldiers are:
http://i42.tinypic.com/21a6ox.png

Nice desert warriors, sure. But Atreides soldiers should look like this:

http://i41.tinypic.com/15x0i6s.png

Don't you agree? I don't know uniforms for every nation, but I can do at least major houses and fremen. Right now there's not a lot of different units (in comparison to other mods) which is good from a balance viewpoint, but a visual difference would make it feel much richer (I enjoy vanilla civilization 4 with Varietas Delectat much more, so I hope you get my point :)).

P.S> This is what I used as a reference for the costume: http://www.arrakis.co.uk/jpg/dune-soldieruniform1sml.jpg

Here's the in-game screenshot:
http://i40.tinypic.com/25upds0.jpg

It still looks like a soldier so you don't normally confuse it with anything else, but also you immediately see that it's an Atreides unit.

Do you support the idea and the work behind it? :) I just don't want to spend a lot of man-hours and then to find out that it's unacceptable.

I think civ-specific art is great. You have also started up some threads on civ-specific buildings, a while ago. The Atreides palace is the one you finished, and that has been in the game for a while. Any art you give us can be guaranteed to go into the game.

It still looks like a soldier so you don't normally confuse it with anything else, but also you immediately see that it's an Atreides unit.

Do you support the idea and the work behind it? :) I just don't want to spend a lot of man-hours and then to find out that it's unacceptable.

I'm definitely in favour of creating more civ-specific units and using team colour a bit more as well. If you read the opening post, I have plans to replace a lot of the Guardsman units with something more Dunish and in keeping with the vague post-apocalyptic backstory. The idea is that initial units will look a bit tatty and desert-battered and progressively look more uniformed and better equipped as the game goes on. So, I like the general idea, but at the moment there are only a smallish number of human units where I'm really satisfied with the models.

Eh, your answer is quite opposite to Davidlallen's... Which one should I follow? :)

Should I wait until you implement more units or fiddle with the current ones?



Anyway, the current "infantry" looks like a mercenary/gladiator unit, not a standard "army" soldier. What's up with the random paint job and a menacing mask and a bold head which is not protected from behind?

So here's the current retexture for house Atreides infantry, in a full helmet and with "hawk" insignias. The helmet design is partially based on this:
http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/cole/1027/pictures/A-Soldier.jpg

In-game screenshot:
http://i41.tinypic.com/97jned.jpg

I attach an archive with appropriate XML changes and textures+models where they belong in case you want to include it in 1.7.3.

Eh, your answer is quite opposite to Davidlallen's... Which one should I follow? :)

We are not disagreeing. We are both saying that the idea of civ specific art is great.

Should I wait until you implement more units or fiddle with the current ones?

I say wait. With these specific guardsman models - the current Soldier and Infantry - I want to replace the models anyway as they are too 21st-century-Earth-looking so it is not worth reskinning them until we have more appropriate models in place in my opinion. I will sort out the Vehicles and Siege units next and then I can look at making new Soldiers and Infantry models.

Anyway, the current "infantry" looks like a mercenary/gladiator unit, not a standard "army" soldier. What's up with the random paint job and a menacing mask and a bold head which is not protected from behind?

I agree this model is not appropriate. It a good quality Sezereth bounty hunter model, but since we are already using a reskin of it for the Lascannon Trooper, I plan to replace it. As I said, reading the opening post will help you understand my thinking.

You have to bear in mind that a lot of the unit art is there because it hasn't been replaced yet and there is nothing more appropriate to hand.

There is definitely a need for buildings too. Things like Factory, Catchbasin, Reservoir of Liet, Desert Airfield, University. Anything that doesn't look particularly deserty and ancient or futuristic and sci-fi. There is a lot of duplicated building art and buttons; at the least it would be good to give every building a unique icon, so that the tech tree and city screen aren't so confusing.

Well, this is what can you do with SeZereth's gladiator:


Harkonnen:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2mzmzo2.png
I had to totally redraw the face because it was distorted on original texture. Other changes are easier.

Atreides:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ewe6qc.png
(I've added transparency to the helmet glass so you can see a face, removed ammo packs on the chest to show insignia better and made some texture tweaks.


Can you make use of those reskins, or did I do it for nothing? :)

The Harkonnen one looks great. I like it. We can use that as an ethnic variant for perhaps the Heavy Trooper?

The Atreides one we can use for one of the Ducal units for now, although I'm not sure it would be the final look I would want for them. I think the Ducal Guard should really fight with melee weapons and perhaps have combined 19th century uniform with Greek style helmet thing going on....

Here's another reskin, next time following chemical/bio style.

http://i44.tinypic.com/ifmkj5.png

May be useful for tleilaxu.

I've got some more but they need more work. Right now I use them as ethnic styles for different infantry. You see infantry most early game so this is something I want to see replaced first :).

I was always a bit annoyed by "Great Spy swordsmen" so here's a reskin for Atreides swordsman:

http://i40.tinypic.com/15i2na1.png


In-Game screenshot:

http://i39.tinypic.com/35aswi1.jpg

Here's another reskin, next time following chemical/bio style

Nice. Probably more suitable for Ordos with the green.

I've got some more but they need more work. Right now I use them as ethnic styles for different infantry. You see infantry most early game so this is something I want to see replaced first .

I understand wanting to replace the Infantry as it is early, but as I have said I want the Infantry to be more basically equipped and make a new model for them. These reskins are good for Heavy Trooper era I think. If the early units have heavy weaponry and heavy armour then there is no progression. I have some pistol animations I have been working on that I would like to use for the new Soldier/Infantry.

I was always a bit annoyed by "Great Spy swordsmen" so here's a reskin for Atreides swordsman

I like this one too. Nice work. Particularly, the uniform is the kind of look we want I think. Might swap the head for something else, but headswaps are pretty easy. We could make the coloured parts greyscaled and transparent to make different team colour uniforms.

There is a lot of good raw material for improving the Melee line in the latest version of Total Realism mod and ambrox's Classical Era Units.

Proof of Concept - Civ Badges without multiple NIFs

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248021&stc=1&d=1269949568

The above might not look particularly impressive, but they are both the same NIF file. The badges are altered only by animation which means every Civ can have its own badge on vehicles without us needing 9 different NIF files which would take up a lot of file space.

Here's the setup:
1. The NIF contains simple two-triangle planes for the logos that have been aligned to the body of the vehicle. There are 9 copies of these within the NIF one for each civilization - the polycount addition is still small even with 3 logos on the body you'd have 3 x 2 x 9 = 54 additional polygons/triangles.

2. The icons sit in the assets/shared directory so there is no need to have 9 additional texture files for each vehicle.

3. Each vehicle will need 9 KFM files for each civ (e.g. Invasion_Ship_Atreides.kfm, Invasion_Ship_Harkonnen.kfm) and 9 idle KF animation files to show/hide the relevant logo for each civ (e.g. InvasionShip_MD_Idle_Atreides.kf, InvasionShip_MD_Idle_Harkonnen.kf).

4. You then have 9 different Art Defines for each civ which use the same NIF but the different KFMs like this:
<NIF>Art/Units/sus_frigate/InvasionShip.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/sus_frigate/InvasionShip_Atreides.kfm</KFM>

5. Finally, you use CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml to point to the 9 different art defines based on what Civ you are.

This means we can use team colour and these badges to create variations without needing to multiply the number of NIFs.

Cool idea! If only I knew how to make different .kfm for logos :P.

Fantastic stuff. I agree that those are good for Heavy Trooper replacements.

I really like the Atreides swordsman guys, not sure which slot they best fill though.

[I'm just watching the Kenneth Branagh version of Hamlet; man, 19th century military uniforms look badass.]

On the Ducal Guard, I'm actually reminded of some of the sequences from Dune2. There's a sequence when you win the game for each faction; with Harkonnen you have some heavy trooper guys come blast the emperor, the Ordos one has some kind of beastie let loose to eat him, the Atreides just come in and give him a lecture. And the Atreides Mentat is flanked by a couple of guards with big Shields, Spears and Hoplite helmets. I think that's what I had in mind (though no particular need for spears); I think these guys should be melee class, not guardsman class.
[Actually though, spears make a ton of sense for shield fighting; you can slowly poke them through a shield and then stab while still being a reasonable distance away from the enemy.]

The badges look very good too.

I've made a more "classical" reskin of the swordsman.

I wonder if it's useful for anything :).

http://i40.tinypic.com/wkk32u.png

I've made a more "classical" reskin of the swordsman.
I wonder if it's useful for anything :).

Ginaz Swordmaster perhaps... with a new head again I think. :)

You are clearly better at texturing than me, but I have quite a lot of experience now with cutting up bits of human units and re-rigging, etc. If I make some new models by combining bits from some existing units, then I can hand them over to you for reskinning. If there's any existing vanilla or other units where you'd like the head swapped or anything like that let me know.

There's a sequence when you win the game for each faction; with Harkonnen you have some heavy trooper guys come blast the emperor, the Ordos one has some kind of beastie let loose to eat him, the Atreides just come in and give him a lecture. And the Atreides Mentat is flanked by a couple of guards with big Shields, Spears and Hoplite helmets.

Good old Youtube...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248054&stc=1&d=1269980524

Ginaz Swordmaster perhaps... with a new head again I think.

I think that unit is gone?
I'm unsure on the stripy pantaloons... doesn't feel very Duneish to me.

Good old Youtube...
That's the one! Man, I haven't played that game in ~16 years.

I'm not sure what function the heavy armor has, but it does look badass for a model.

I'm unsure on the stripy pantaloons... doesn't feel very Duneish to me. I was just experimenting :). Not for Dune, just for fun.

I'm not sure what function the heavy armor has
It looks like a ritual/grand armor, not a combat suit.

I thought that current Sayyadina art is quite meh. A female settler with a pot :).

So I thought that I could reskin this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14086) vampire model to play this role better.

I retextured the face (it had weird proportions on original texture) and removed nudity elements. Also I've made the dress into a robe with a hair being a cape.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ff1x7n.png

I'd drop the sword, or make it a small knife, to emphasize that this isn't a combat unit.

Personally, I think of the Sayyadinas as being old like Mother Ramallo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Mother_Ramallo) in the Dune miniseries:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e1/Ramallo.jpg/175px-Ramallo.jpg

I really like her outfit and the fact she looks like an old lady of the desert. I know we have Sayyadinas as Bene Gesserit units, but technically the Fremen "Reverend Mothers" - the Sayyadinas are not really affiliated with the BG. The are not really combat trainers in the fiction either I suppose, more the priestesses of the Fremen, so the fact that they dish out promotions in this mod is a bit weird.

We could rename the units as follows:
Shai Hulud Mystic -> Sayyadina
Sayyadina -> Acolyte/Instructor
Discussed Acolyte Unit -> Reverend Mother
Reverend Mother -> Truthsayer

I think the vampire reskin would be more appropriate for a young Bene Gesserit Acolyte basically.

Shai Hulud Mystic -> Sayyadina
Sayyadina -> Acolyte/Instructor
Discussed Acolyte Unit -> Reverend Mother
Reverend Mother -> Truthsayer

I think the vampire reskin would be more appropriate for a young Bene Gesserit Acolyte basically.

This sounds great to me; with the exception that it means that Reverend Mothers do not require Water of Life, while Truthsayers do.

If we're willing to tolerate it, then I say go for it.

Actually AFAIK sayyadinas are lower-ranking Fremen priestesses who had not yet passed within to become Reverend Mothers. So because of their lower rank they may be of any middle age.

I think the vampire reskin would be more appropriate for a young Bene Gesserit Acolyte basically.
Sure. But didn't reverend mothers have an increased lifespan and overall physical features of a healthy woman?

Actually AFAIK sayyadinas are lower-ranking Fremen priestesses who had not yet passed within to become Reverend Mothers.

IIRC Sayyadinas *are* Fremen Reverend Mothers. Jessica becomes their new Sayyadina when she takes the water of life.

Reverend Mother is a Bene Gesserit term, Sayyadina is a Fremen term.

But didn't reverend mothers have an increased lifespan and overall physical features of a healthy woman?
RM's *could* control their biology to extend their life, should they choose to do so. But they refused to do so, because they didn't want the general population to know that they could do that, because they didn't want the population to hate and fear them (any more than they already did).
Their extended life came only from geriatric properties of spice consumption, and that didn't keep them particularly young-looking. Look at the descriptions and depictions of Moiham for example.

Actually AFAIK sayyadinas are lower-ranking Fremen priestesses who had not yet passed within to become Reverend Mothers. So because of their lower rank they may be of any middle age.

You know I think you're right, because Chani is named Sayyadina in place of Jessica when she takes the water of life. Sayyadinas can only become RMs by surviving the water of life test.

Here's a link (http://www.wattpad.com/73842-enud-3?p=7) to the passage.

So Sayyadinas should probably look younger, but still with Fremenish clothing. We can then make them the Shai Hulud missionary.

Interesting, looks like I'm wrong. Thanks.

So we have:
Young Sayyadina in Fremen garb as Shai-Hulad missionary.

Then we have 3 roles for BG units:
Trainer, Minor spy, Major spy.

I'm not sure that Acoltye/Sister fits well as Trainer and RM as Minor Spy. How about we reverse these?

So: young Sister as minor spy. Moderate RM as trainer. Old Truthsayer as Major Spy.

Then, what techs should these be at?

I could see:
Sister minor spy at Law of Arrakis (infiltrator replaceemnt)
RM trainer at Water of Life
Truthsayer major Spy at mind Training.

I've checked Dune wiki and it says that Sayaadinas are NOT Reverend Mothers, but the younger priestesses. They become Reverend Mothers later. Can someone check books to clarify it ? :)

P.S. Oh I see, Deliverator gave a link. Yeah, it definitely shows that Fremen have "reverend mothers" and that Sayyadinas are the first rank in their hierarchy. Thus they should be young.

Personally, I think of the Sayyadinas as being old like Mother Ramallo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Mother_Ramallo) in the Dune miniseries:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e1/Ramallo.jpg/175px-Ramallo.jpg
Sorry, I missed your message. Mother Ramalio is Reverend Mother, not Sayyadina, thus she's much older. So I guess that my approach on vampire reskin is right :).

If you want details, I can add them. Also I will remove the weapon unless you want them to be combat units, then I will make it into a smaller ritual-looking knife.

Hey Deon, do you mind posting the files for the unit reskins you've done so far please? I'd like to have a play with them.

Sure.

I'm just watching the Kenneth Branagh version of Hamlet; man, 19th century military uniforms look badass.

I've gone down this road for the new Mentat unit which has long needed sensible art. It's a German Hussar from Total Realism combined with the head of the Master Fur Trader from Colonization.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249384&stc=1&d=1271141996

Unit art from patch 1.7.3.2

New Soldier and Infantry plus Deon's reskins for the Ordos and Harkonnen Heavy Troopers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249876&stc=1&d=1271541275

Both the Soldier and Infantry have both a pistol and a knife. They will use the knife against melee units and the pistol against other ranged units. The animations were made by adapting the SAM infantry machine pistol animations, and combining them with the Charlemagne Light Swordsman animations. The Light Swordsman anims are really handy for Dune Wars because they are the only set I know off that featuring stabbing as well as slashing.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249879&stc=1&d=1271541401

I re-rigged Bakuel's Kahina unit to missionary animations for the Shai Hulud Sayyadina. There is now a proper Shai Hulud religion spread effect to go with her. I made some tweaks to Deon's vamp reskin for the BG Instructress. There is a new Great Prophet made from ambrox62's middle-eastern ancient spy, and the new Mentat unit.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249878&stc=1&d=1271541913

I'm using Deon's reskins for the Atreides Ducal units although this isn't probably the final look we want for them. I switched the head on Deon's bladesman reskin and it's being used for the Kindjal Soldier for the time being. I know a kindjal is actually a much smaller sword, but this can be sorted out later, probably using the Light Swordsman animations again.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249877&stc=1&d=1271541644

Looks friggin awesome!

Egg Soldiers of Dune!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=250496&stc=1&d=1272126731

(I made these eggs for david's new project and I thought the in-game test was too comical to not post a screenshot...)

Thanks a million, that was super-quick. Here is a shot with a little more context.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=250497&d=1272127939

That's a great job, Deliverator! I really love the pistol-wielding units, they are awesome.

That dragon nest is smexy, David :).

Very cool dragon.... a secret project! I'd be very happy to give design feedback if you're working on something new.

I also have several ideas for some Civ5 mods, looking ahead to the future.

ohhh eggs! i feel like eating an omelet :)

so a secret project huh?...got me interested now david.

civ 5...think there will be dune wars for civ 5? im in!!!

I think we'd be better off optimizing Dune Wars for Dune4, and then maybe working on something different for Civ5. Just IMO.

Random ideas:

I do have some ideas for a Rome scenario that might be fun for Civ5.

Most scenarios are designed to be played as any faction, and so are limited in their ability to actually provide a challenging and flavorful environment.

Some of the best Civ3 scenarios were those designed to be played by only a single faction; Red Front for example, playing as the Russians resisting German invasion.

The general idea would be to make a Civ scenario (or two) that was designed to be played primarily from the Roman perspective. Somewhat like Rome Total War and some of its mods (especially the SPQR mod) and the Barbarian Invasion expansion. This way, you can make the game historically accurate, and you can make the game HARD, because you're not trying to create a game that can be played from multiple perspectives. Sure, people might only play it once or twice each, but its worth it if the mod is good enough.

The game would start with early Republic Rome and chronicle the rise of Rome. And then a second (on the same map) could start with the split empire and chronicle the Fall of Rome.

You can have a range of victory conditions designed around specific goals for the Roman player.

There would be "Road to War" type aspects with events that would trigger, either on historic dates or historic dates + random modifier.
These would include things like particular wars (and civil wars), or invasions of barbarian hordes.

We could have a detailed tech tree with engineering/technological, political and military innovations, and a detailed unit roster. Things like the Marian reforms would be techs, not events. There could be a detailed roster of units, starting from ancient phalanx-style militia, and then through Hastati/Principes/Triarii, and then eventually legionaries and auxiliaries (which would require unique location resources that you could get only by conquering particular territories - would work great with the Civ5 ability for strategic resources to require a limited number of units).

[Gaulish cities would be built on top of the Gaulish Auxiliaries resource. Conquer the city, you can recruit 3 Gaulish auxiliaries. Some rare units like Balearic slingers would only be possible from controllnig the Balearic isles. And so forth.]

Other factions would be a mix of enemy players (Carthage and the like) and barbarians.

So basically Rome Total War meets Rhyes and Fall meets Road to War.
Plus maybe a mix of Europa Universalis type options that give you different choices in events (do you control the Senate or Caesar, like picking sides in the English Civil War in Europa Universalis).

If anyone was skilled enough to code such a thing, and we had people interested in doing art, I'd put the effort into doing the design work.



http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322393&page=3
see whole thread but particularly post #43 onwards

Now I know why you can kill me with your brain:mischief: That was a very spirited discussion you linked to. As far as porting Dune Wars to Civ5, don't. It would be a total waste of time IMO. Now as far as your Rome mod idea - that sounds bad ass! From what I've read about Civ5, a Total War type mod would probably lend itself to Civ5 quite well as far as the mechanics go. Just my two cents.

Now I know why you can kill me with your brain

That's just a Firefly quote I use to mock myself :-)
Glad you think the ideas are interesting.

Some new unit art. Ixian Spy Probe, Imperial Diplomat, Waterstealer and Crysknife Fighter.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=262451&stc=1&d=1283198915

Cool, looks good.

Very impressive.:goodjob:

The Great Prophet has reasonable custom art, but the other Great People are very out of place: Great Burseg (General), Great Scientist, Great Techman (Engineer), Great Merchant, Spymaster (Great Spy) and Great Nobleman.

How should the rest could look? Any suggestions, links to concept art or existing Civ 4 units that might form a good basis are welcome.

Great General: I saw the Dune mini series just recently and I thought about the emperor as general (See attached)

I would suggest you revisit the mini series as well if you haven't done already. It has some excellent costumes.

From the same: Great Scientist idea (Liet)

See attached

And finally, some nobles

This is the art that was unreleased at the time of my disappearance.

I did a push to make Dune specific great people. Right to left: Spymaster, Great Nobleman, Burseg, Scientist, Engineer. I couldn't resist doing a Sardaukar Burseg based on Lynch movie - I can look at doing some other house reskins unless someone else fancies it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=288474&stc=1&d=1303837630

And finally replaced the Suspensor Carrier using one the Babylon 5 vessels reskinned.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=288475&stc=1&d=1303837630

I'll package up the files shortly. Actually, I need to make buttons I think so I'll do that before uploading.

Awesome. I really like the carrier, it fits the rest of the suspensor art much better than the old one.

I was going to modify the sardoukur legionary button to be different and distinguishable from the noukker button, do you want me to send that to you to package with the rest when I do it(it'll take a whole of five minutes once I get a chance). Right now if you've got them mixed in a stack it gets a little annoying. Just giving them a fully black shirt like the unit models ought to do the trick.

@ Deliverator : Nice work as always. Glad your back. :)

Oh my god, the master is back and i didn't notice it.
:worship: