View Full Version : A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback


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scribbler
May 02, 2010, 09:16 PM
Afforess, I think I may have found the culprit with messed up fog of war. When I upgraded my first GC to Morale 5, he received +1 visibility, and I think this is causing visibility issues with the python trying to give +1 visibility to units but failing. Removing the visibility bonus from the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml in the GC folder seems to have had a positive effect, although the game is still reporting that the GC has +1 visibility when hovering over the plot (with just the GC on the plot), but does NOT show +1 visibility (in gray or white) when hovering over the unit in the list.

As soon as I can I'll try another test.

NBAfan
May 02, 2010, 09:35 PM
Afforess, I think I may have found the culprit with messed up fog of war. When I upgraded my first GC to Morale 5, he received +1 visibility, and I think this is causing visibility issues with the python trying to give +1 visibility to units but failing. Removing the visibility bonus from the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml in the GC folder seems to have had a positive effect, although the game is still reporting that the GC has +1 visibility when hovering over the plot (with just the GC on the plot), but does NOT show +1 visibility (in gray or white) when hovering over the unit in the list.

As soon as I can I'll try another test.I have also seen it happen when a big stack is selected and moved.

scribbler
May 03, 2010, 12:02 AM
I have also seen it happen when a big stack is selected and moved.

I've always had a nagging feeling about the +1 visibilities (I think there are several promos that do it) granted to GCs. Something about them has always seemed off. Call it my IT guru instinct kicking in (related through a second cousin to the instinct that keeps me off of malicious pr0n sites).

RoM says it's 2.91 and I got a new copy of RoM and tried again to the same effect.

Are you sure you've put RoM in the Beyond the Sword mod directory instead of the base civilization directory? Civ has an odd layout for its expansions which makes each game a subdirectory of the civilization directory. And each of the expansions has its own mod folder.

If that checks out, how about showing us the directory structure you've got, where you've got RoM installed and where you've got AND installed? Screenshots, a tree /f >tree.txt or something like that.

If you're not sure how to do any of that, go to your ".../Base Civ Directory/Beyond the Sword/Mods/Rise of Mankind" folder and unpack the attached WhereAmI.zip in it. Run WhereAmI.cmd, then compress and attach the 2 files WaI_tree.txt and WaI_files.txt to your reply.

WhereAmI.cmd has the following lines:
@ECHO OFF
echo Writing current directory to WaI_tree.txt
cd >WaI_tree.txt
echo Writing wtree structure to WaI_tree.txt
tree /a >>WaI_tree.txt
echo Completed writing to WaI_tree.txt
echo Writing current directory to WaI_files.txt
cd >WaI_files.txt
echo Writing wtree structure to WaI_files.txt
tree /a /f >>WaI_files.txt
echo Completed writing to WaI_files.txt
pause

strategyonly
May 03, 2010, 12:36 AM
Aieee :dubious: why bother testing when you're not even sure what you're testing. First rule of testing: always know what it is you're testing. :nono:

Anyway, I can see you're running something else by the screenshot, with a hunter unit. Not saying that your problem isn't caused by AND, but it's gonna be hard debugging the issue if you're running something outside of AND.


This should not be in the testing faze if its an Alpha product, which mean you can test it with others stuff, otherwise even if you add AND to RoM 2.91 your saying in your philosophy that your doing Zappara an injustice then. Besides it does say "and Feedback"

Now if your talking Beta then its a whole new ball game. And its was obvious that no else got my point earlier, thats what i get when i am not good with words, (well at least writing them here that is) ;)

Now back to the problem, enough with the small talk:blush:

Afforess@ what would cause that Dawn of Man error?

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 12:45 AM
Afforess@ what would cause that Dawn of Man error?

Using a custom Civ with a bad leaderhead, I imagine.

strategyonly
May 03, 2010, 12:58 AM
Using a custom Civ with a bad leaderhead, I imagine.

WOW thx, i never even thought of that, good advice, i know i can always count on you, thx.;)

remake20
May 03, 2010, 09:09 AM
I've always had a nagging feeling about the +1 visibilities (I think there are several promos that do it) granted to GCs. Something about them has always seemed off. Call it my IT guru instinct kicking in (related through a second cousin to the instinct that keeps me off of malicious pr0n sites).



Are you sure you've put RoM in the Beyond the Sword mod directory instead of the base civilization directory? Civ has an odd layout for its expansions which makes each game a subdirectory of the civilization directory. And each of the expansions has its own mod folder.

If that checks out, how about showing us the directory structure you've got, where you've got RoM installed and where you've got AND installed? Screenshots, a tree /f >tree.txt or something like that.

If you're not sure how to do any of that, go to your ".../Base Civ Directory/Beyond the Sword/Mods/Rise of Mankind" folder and unpack the attached WhereAmI.zip in it. Run WhereAmI.cmd, then compress and attach the 2 files WaI_tree.txt and WaI_files.txt to your reply.

WhereAmI.cmd has the following lines:
@ECHO OFF
echo Writing current directory to WaI_tree.txt
cd >WaI_tree.txt
echo Writing wtree structure to WaI_tree.txt
tree /a >>WaI_tree.txt
echo Completed writing to WaI_tree.txt
echo Writing current directory to WaI_files.txt
cd >WaI_files.txt
echo Writing wtree structure to WaI_files.txt
tree /a /f >>WaI_files.txt
echo Completed writing to WaI_files.txt
pause

Here you go. It is where it should be, I'm not a noob at installing mods. ;)

giffy
May 03, 2010, 12:02 PM
In an effort to fix the fog of war issue I went into world builder and Unrevealed all tiles. After doing that the areas that were covered by fog of war now have the black border with stripes cover. Re-revealing the tiles removes the black border overlay but returns the fog of war. Not sure if this helps but thought I would share!

Thanks for such a great mod!

Alorente
May 03, 2010, 02:55 PM
That's because A New Dawn doesn't work in MP. Whenever RevDCM get their act together and release their MP fixes, I'll let you know.

Sorry to disagree with you but AND does work with MP. The version that works to perfection is AND 1.63 over ROM 2.81. We are on our 20th game and we have had 0, zilch OOS since we began. Every other version we have tried after 1.63 gives OOS pretty constantly. We are having a great time with MP. Thanks to you.

Darken24
May 03, 2010, 03:15 PM
it appears that flexible difficulty isn't working right now as i've met all nations (checked world builder to make sure and had it on 50 turn changes and was on top for 100+ turns with no change also tried 40 and no change on 5 i got it to change once strangely 2 turns after putting it on 5 on turn 667 and then it didn't change again tried 1 and got an immediate change however no more changes in difficulty afterwords. haven't not changed any other flexible difficulty settings although i did turn it off at the beginning of the game only to turn it on later

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 03:24 PM
it appears that flexible difficulty isn't working right now as i've met all nations (checked world builder to make sure and had it on 50 turn changes and was on top for 100+ turns with no change also tried 40 and no change on 5 i got it to change once strangely 2 turns after putting it on 5 on turn 667 and then it didn't change again tried 1 and got an immediate change however no more changes in difficulty afterwords. haven't not changed any other flexible difficulty settings although i did turn it off at the beginning of the game only to turn it on later

It scales for gamespeed. It's 50 turns, normal speed, but 100 turns for epic, 200 for snail, 400 for Eternity.

scribbler
May 03, 2010, 03:24 PM
Here you go. It is where it should be, I'm not a noob at installing mods. ;)

:dubious:

I can see from the WaI_files.txt itself what the problem is. You're missing many, many files. :rolleyes: I'm attaching a WaI_files.txt as generated on my computer.

The only way I can think of that this could happen is if you installed just the RoM 2.9 -> RoM 2.91 patch (2.5mb) instead of the full RoM 2.91 archive. To fix:


if you have RoM 2.9 already (the full 445MB archive) you can install that and then install the 2.9->2.91 patch, and then install AND.
you can download the entire 2.91 (447MB) archive here. For fewer headaches, I'd recommend this.

Darken24
May 03, 2010, 03:35 PM
It scales for gamespeed. It's 50 turns, normal speed, but 100 turns for epic, 200 for snail, 400 for Eternity.

ya i remember that you explained where for me to go so i could manually change that before but this is in the BUG MOD ROMSettings area where you can change the turn increments for it that you so kindly put in

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 03:47 PM
ya i remember that you explained where for me to go so i could manually change that before but this is in the BUG MOD ROMSettings area where you can change the turn increments for it that you so kindly put in

Yeah, that's the number it scales. You're giving it a number for normal speed. I guess I should make that clearer on the hover-text.

chrisj8804
May 03, 2010, 03:49 PM
I am having a couple of issues that others have had as well. These were mentioned before in the main download thread.
I am not able to see landmarks. I get the happiness benefits from them apparently, but cannot see them at all.
The other issue I am having is that my experience is not increasing. I have a warrior who has won the past 4 battles when he was at 20.00 experience and yet he is still at 20.00 experience.
I would really like to be able to see the landmarks, I think that's an awesome concept, so any help would be great thanks!
I have AND 1.73 Patch A
Here are a couple of save games before and after the unit is in battle.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows

Dancing Hoskuld
May 03, 2010, 03:49 PM
Don't know if this is AND related but some of the BUG option have stopped sticking with the new AND 1.73A. I.E. I have to reset them every time I start a game. very annoying.

Advance Combat odds - old and reported to RevDCM team
Unit naming
RevDCM screen - fighter options
RevDCM screen - supper spy optional missions
Alerts screen - domination victory alerts


Do I report them to the RevDCM team? I though the fighter ones may be a result of your interception improvements but who knows;).

remake20
May 03, 2010, 03:50 PM
:dubious:

I can see from the WaI_files.txt itself what the problem is. You're missing many, many files. :rolleyes: I'm attaching a WaI_files.txt as generated on my computer.

The only way I can think of that this could happen is if you installed just the RoM 2.9 -> RoM 2.91 patch (2.5mb) instead of the full RoM 2.91 archive. To fix:


if you have RoM 2.9 already (the full 445MB archive) you can install that and then install the 2.9->2.91 patch, and then install AND.
you can download the entire 2.91 (447MB) archive here. For fewer headaches, I'd recommend this.


Okay... IDK how that happened, but I'll see what I can do.

scribbler
May 03, 2010, 04:02 PM
Don't know if this is AND related but some of the BUG option have stopped sticking with the new AND 1.73A. I.E. I have to reset them every time I start a game. very annoying.

Advance Combat odds - old and reported to RevDCM team
Unit naming
RevDCM screen - fighter options
RevDCM screen - supper spy optional missions
Alerts screen - domination victory alerts


Do I report them to the RevDCM team? I though the fighter ones may be a result of your interception improvements but who knows;).

Yeah, that looks like the same problems suffered when the Usersettings directory doesn't have write privileges on Vista or Win7. Or at least similar. Haven't seen it myself yet, but I'll test next time I can sit down to civ.

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 04:07 PM
I am having a couple of issues that others have had as well. These were mentioned before in the main download thread.
I am not able to see landmarks. I get the happiness benefits from them apparently, but cannot see them at all.
The other issue I am having is that my experience is not increasing. I have a warrior who has won the past 4 battles when he was at 20.00 experience and yet he is still at 20.00 experience.
I would really like to be able to see the landmarks, I think that's an awesome concept, so any help would be great thanks!
I have AND 1.73 Patch A
Here are a couple of save games before and after the unit is in battle.


Neither are bugs. The 20XP limit is for barbarians. You can not get over 20XP from fighting barbarians, you need to fight other players to get more XP than that.

The lack of Signs is from disabling "Event Signs" in the BUG options panel. Turn it on, and they should re-appear.

scribbler
May 03, 2010, 04:17 PM
Neither are bugs. The 20XP limit is for barbarians. You can not get over 20XP from fighting barbarians, you need to fight other players to get more XP than that.

The lack of Signs is from disabling "Event Signs" in the BUG options panel. Turn it on, and they should re-appear.

But isn't the limit for barbs 40xp? Or is that in longer games?

Anyway, I wasn't going to mention this until I investigated it a bit more, but I've been getting some wonky behaviour when it comes to XP. When I don't have dynamic XP turned on, I don't get any XP fighting against minor civs (a unit without any xp at all). When I do have dynamic XP turned on, it gives me .25 xp (which is OK -- fighting archers with my crusader is overkill anyway), but then Barbs give me no XP (although this may be the 20xp limit kicking in only when dynamic xp is turned on).

Like I said, I have to investigate further. I still haven't fought against another full-blown civ, so I'd like to know how good or bad my chances are against it.

BTW, am I right in thinking that you removed nobles and tactics (particularly the extra move) on purpose?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 03, 2010, 04:24 PM
Yeah, that looks like the same problems suffered when the Usersettings directory doesn't have write privileges on Vista or Win7. Or at least similar. Haven't seen it myself yet, but I'll test next time I can sit down to civ.

Except I am still on XP and other settings are sticking :) And to make matters worse this time some of them did stick:crazyeye:

the fighter and spy options not sticking is new with AND 1.73A.

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 04:26 PM
But isn't the limit for barbs 40xp? Or is that in longer games?

Anyway, I wasn't going to mention this until I investigated it a bit more, but I've been getting some wonky behaviour when it comes to XP. When I don't have dynamic XP turned on, I don't get any XP fighting against minor civs (a unit without any xp at all). When I do have dynamic XP turned on, it gives me .25 xp (which is OK -- fighting archers with my crusader is overkill anyway), but then Barbs give me no XP (although this may be the 20xp limit kicking in only when dynamic xp is turned on).

Like I said, I have to investigate further. I still haven't fought against another full-blown civ, so I'd like to know how good or bad my chances are against it.


Investigating further, I think I caught another bug with XP. I'm testing a fix now, and it should be in Patch B, soon. ;)

chrisj8804
May 03, 2010, 04:54 PM
Neither are bugs. The 20XP limit is for barbarians. You can not get over 20XP from fighting barbarians, you need to fight other players to get more XP than that.

The lack of Signs is from disabling "Event Signs" in the BUG options panel. Turn it on, and they should re-appear.

I haven't been battling barbarians, they have been minor civs. Do minor civs count as barbarians as far as XP is calculated now?

And I have the "Event Signs" option selected. I have tried looking for the landmarks with it both checked and unchecked because I couldn't get it to work. In another thread you said even when turned off, if you hover over the square you will see in the hover info that there is a landmark, but that does not appear either. I tried to post a screenshot but can't figure out how. :confused:

If you look at the save though, you'll notice that I have the domesticated prarie dogs dogs event sign just north of the city, so I know I have the event signs turned on.

Thanks, Chris.

scribbler
May 03, 2010, 05:49 PM
Investigating further, I think I caught another bug with XP. I'm testing a fix now, and it should be in Patch B, soon. ;)

Just installed and tested patch B. Sorry to tell you this Aff, but I am not getting any XP in combat with minor civs when dynamic XP is turned off.

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 07:16 PM
Just installed and tested patch B. Sorry to tell you this Aff, but I am not getting any XP in combat with minor civs when dynamic XP is turned off.

Grr. Stupid bugs. Firaxis has to go use MAX_INT as a marker... Any CS people know what happens when you multiply MAX_INT by 100? Yeah. Awesome.

Anyway, I'll get a patch C out in an hour or so.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 03, 2010, 07:20 PM
I am getting the following "errors" in the pythonerr.log file with 1.73A. No other errors or mods.
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Smart_Map.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Lows_Random_Maps_3_0.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Planet_Generator_0_68.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Ring_World.py


A New Dawn log:-
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP


Also when I add in any other python, doesn't seem to matter which I get the following even though none of the python has anything to do with civilisations.

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvCultureLinkInterface", line 66, in assignCulturallyLinkedStarts

File "CvCultureLinkInterface", line 19, in InitCoordinatesDictionary

File "CvCultureLinkInterface", line 215, in __init__

File "CvCultureLinkInterface", line 245, in GetInfoType

ValueError: InfoType CIVILIZATION_ABORIGINES unknown! Probably just a Typing Error.
ERR: Python function assignCulturallyLinkedStarts failed, module CvCultureLinkInterface


And yes I am using the culturally linked start option.

Just an irritation since it makes it difficult to see my python errors. Not that I have any atm :)

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 07:27 PM
The getModPath failures are some BUG oddity. It doesn't seem to hurt anything, I've just ignored them. The bottom error is bad though; I'll fix it for Patch C.

lucky17
May 03, 2010, 07:52 PM
okay maybe im just but where do I find the patches for 1.73?

Afforess
May 03, 2010, 07:54 PM
okay maybe im just but where do I find the patches for 1.73?

In the First post of the Main Download Information Thread. ;)

dr.Hyde
May 04, 2010, 04:52 AM
Well then all you have...nope, I got nothing. :huh:

But to help, start a new game with personalized map and attach the save.

Also, include your "A new dawn.log" file here (found in the Rise of Mankind folder), like I did here.

Finally, including the Usersettings folder might help. I'll try taking a look at it, and if I can't help, I'm sure Afforess can.

Ok, I'll post something when I get time to form a more detailed report. I was under impression that it was a common problems since I saw some other posters already report same thing (during beta 3), so I thought only to mention it. Since it does appear to only affect few players I'll make a more detailed report once I have enough time since my RL schedule got quite full recently.
It's not a huge bug so it's no rush and, first, I'd like to see if I get event markers on map as well. I did see them in beta 3 version but I have yet to see any in release version. If I really don't then I guess that 2 issues may be related. So I'll hold of posting anything untill for a short while. Or someone else nails what could be a cause of it. :p

scribbler
May 04, 2010, 01:45 PM
Ok, I'll post something when I get time to form a more detailed report. I was under impression that it was a common problems since I saw some other posters already report same thing (during beta 3), so I thought only to mention it. Since it does appear to only affect few players I'll make a more detailed report once I have enough time since my RL schedule got quite full recently.
It's not a huge bug so it's no rush and, first, I'd like to see if I get event markers on map as well. I did see them in beta 3 version but I have yet to see any in release version. If I really don't then I guess that 2 issues may be related. So I'll hold of posting anything untill for a short while. Or someone else nails what could be a cause of it. :p

At least some folks, as far as I know, had it fixed by changing Event Signs. Seems you didn't work for you. So it would be good to have a save ;) And remember that sometimes problems show up because you don't have the latest download or missed something in the steps, etc.

chrisj8804
May 04, 2010, 03:32 PM
At least some folks, as far as I know, had it fixed by changing Event Signs. Seems you didn't work for you. So it would be good to have a save ;) And remember that sometimes problems show up because you don't have the latest download or missed something in the steps, etc.

I posted my save of of the same problem on the last page (114 i think). So if you would like to glance at it, maybe you could figure something out.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with that I'm running Windows 7. I know I can't get multiplayer to work because of it, so maybe it has conflicts.

xcrissxcrossx
May 04, 2010, 03:54 PM
I don't know if this has been said before, but with whipping taken out of ROM, The Aztecs' UB is useless besides being a normal courthouse with 2/3 of the cost.

Toddy
May 04, 2010, 03:59 PM
I think there's a problem with the mercy rule option, I've attached a save 117 turns into an Epic game, and in four turns, someone's going to win. I don't think someone could amass twice the score of all other 8 civs in that time.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

DRJ
May 04, 2010, 04:19 PM
Hey Afforess, right now I am playing a 1.73 game with 15 units max/tile it seems not to cripple AI, quite a lot going on. Some Cities have 15 units/garrison, though and if I try to move my unit at the city to attack it, I can't as it would corrupt the max/units rule. Also, moving a worker stack of 10 thru a city with a garrison of 6 isn't possible without it being split up and one worker remaining outside the gates. Could workers maybe be cut off the rule? And could the rule maybe mean like 15 horse / infantry / ships each, not 15 all together?
Another thing I watched was that the AI likes to build Forts now, only 1 tile from its city, to station the newly produced units (if city is already full) there.

One more thing: A Catapult was worth Democracy + some gold to the AI - it really offered me that for one catapult. When I neglected and tried to redo the deal by offering the catapult the AI wouldn't give a tech + gold anymore. The price for buying units without getting said "offers" feels right now, nevertheless.

One more idea: could buildings/units cost population points? Could there be fractional population points, meaning that a Population only can work 7 tiles if a cities fractional population would be 7,8 after a horse unit has been produced and maybe 7,5 if an infantry was build if the worth before was 8? If a unit was deleted inside a city it could add 0.2/0.5 population.... A "sacrificial altar" could, for instance cost 0.5 population every 70 turns or something like that - and/or a draft office maybe!

I really like the idea that you made the "villa" -:food:/turn thats the right direction, I think!

Afforess
May 04, 2010, 04:21 PM
Thanks toddy, checking it out.

I don't know if this has been said before, but with whipping taken out of ROM, The Aztecs' UB is useless besides being a normal courthouse with 2/3 of the cost.

Added to 1.74 todo list.

Afforess
May 04, 2010, 04:26 PM
DRJ, I'm going to open a thread on it. One sec.

Afforess
May 04, 2010, 04:49 PM
Just checked it out Toddy; it's because the calculation ignores Minor Civs. I've made an exemption for Start as Minor Civs, and will release a fix in Patch D. For now, turn off Mercy Rule.

Afforess
May 04, 2010, 04:50 PM
One more thing: A Catapult was worth Democracy + some gold to the AI - it really offered me that for one catapult. When I neglected and tried to redo the deal by offering the catapult the AI wouldn't give a tech + gold anymore. The price for buying units without getting said "offers" feels right now, nevertheless.

Next time it happens, upload an autosave from right before, so I can watch the calculations. I haven't seen abnormal behavior in my game.


One more idea: could buildings/units cost population points? Could there be fractional population points, meaning that a Population only can work 7 tiles if a cities fractional population would be 7,8 after a horse unit has been produced and maybe 7,5 if an infantry was build if the worth before was 8? If a unit was deleted inside a city it could add 0.2/0.5 population.... A "sacrificial altar" could, for instance cost 0.5 population every 70 turns or something like that - and/or a draft office maybe!

Sounds really complex... IDK.

Toddy
May 04, 2010, 04:59 PM
Just checked it out Toddy; it's because the calculation ignores Minor Civs. I've made an exemption for Start as Minor Civs, and will release a fix in Patch D. For now, turn off Mercy Rule.

Cool, thanks.

givy
May 04, 2010, 05:47 PM
Hello Everybody.

I've been having a chain of problems with Civ 4 (Using this mod) I was able to fix all but these. Ps. I am running Ubuntu 10.04 and the newest version of wine , 1.1.43 I think.

Whenever I would start a new civilization to play it would crash the second it loads with no visible error. I've reinstalled ROM ND several times and it doesn't help. NO I WILL NOT REINSTALL CIV 4!

Next I just restarted my computer and it has been freezing at init python now.

Last I am still unsure how to solve the black terrain if it happens, it happened on another computer I had on ubuntu. a chain of problems with Civ 4 (Using this mod) I was able to fix all but these.

PLEASE HELP! I've been looking for solutions for a HUGE string of problems trying to get Civ 4 to run for the past 2 weeks!

Afforess
May 04, 2010, 05:54 PM
First off, you do realize that there is no official support for Unix enviroments, correct?

Anyway, I got RoM & AND to work on Ubuntu a while back...

First question, can you play BTS unmodded?

givy
May 04, 2010, 06:27 PM
It's odd, I really can't tell now because It won't let me past the splash screen thingy and it tells me to terminate the process eventually.

Slammer64
May 04, 2010, 08:41 PM
givy, what version of Wine are you using and do you have direct rendering enabled?

os79
May 05, 2010, 04:49 AM
I suggest that you try to go into WorldBuilder and create AI army of about 3 or so Mailed knights and your own army of one musketeer. Now attack that stack of 3 Mailed Knights. Just to be absolute sure you will catch the bug, let there be roads on both tiles they are on.

The bug:
When the musketeer attack ONE! Mailed Knight, the first knight might or might not succeed in withdrawing. When it does, the next Knight step into the fight and attack the musketeer!

That was what happened to me last night. Next time, I'm sure to create a savegame for you if I am in the same situation again.

szemek77
May 05, 2010, 10:51 AM
Anyone reported already, that "flexible difficulty" works no matter I check it or not when setting up a game? No save and log though..... I'm pretty sure I installed everything properly.

EDIT: it seems so :) nevermind

EDIT2: now I'm really confused, as I checked the setting panel again, only to see that there is a "increased difficulty" ;)

scribbler
May 05, 2010, 02:14 PM
Anyone reported already, that "flexible difficulty" works no matter I check it or not when setting up a game? No save and log though..... I'm pretty sure I installed everything properly.

EDIT: it seems so :) nevermind

EDIT2: now I'm really confused, as I checked the setting panel again, only to see that there is a "increased difficulty" ;)

If flexible difficulty shows up in custom game options, you're using an old version and buggy beta. Update to the newest from the main download page and install patch C.

As for increased difficulty -- that's another option which will increase the difficulty even if you're doing badly.

AndarielHalo
May 05, 2010, 04:16 PM
Feedback: At first I was intrigued by the idea of the asymmetrical border expansion, but now I realize it's brilliance in that it gives previously pointless buildings like Reflecting Pools a higher purpose.


Also, this may be too much of a strain on the game, but did anyone think of the idea of having official languages for civilizations? Similar languages in-game could make for easier diplomatic relations with civilizations

scribbler
May 05, 2010, 05:13 PM
Afforess, an old bug has resurfaced. The Adam Smith's Trading Company wonder doesn't show a tooltip when hovering over it in the city screen. I've seen it before, but noticed you had fixed it (or it had gone away). Not a huge deal, but weird when hover over works with the civilopedia entry for it.

Edit: and now it works fine...:confused:

Arakhor
May 05, 2010, 06:20 PM
Wouldn't official languages simply be like another type of religion?

os79
May 05, 2010, 06:26 PM
Wouldn't official languages simply be like another type of religion?

Diplo aspect of civ is weird already so no need to complicate things further :).

szemek77
May 06, 2010, 05:07 AM
If flexible difficulty shows up in custom game options, you're using an old version and buggy beta. Update to the newest from the main download page and install patch C.

As for increased difficulty -- that's another option which will increase the difficulty even if you're doing badly.

OK, I got the newest version. There is an increased difficulty option, but I don't use it. However, it seems that flexible difficulty is a game feature now. Is it possible to turn it off?

Probably wrong thread, though :)

Toddy
May 06, 2010, 05:24 AM
Think it's Ctrl+Shift+O to bring up the BUG(?) options menu, click on the ROM tab and the options to turn flexable difficulty off/on is there.

szemek77
May 06, 2010, 07:06 AM
Think it's Ctrl+Shift+O to bring up the BUG(?) options menu, click on the ROM tab and the options to turn flexable difficulty off/on is there.

Thank you very much

scribbler
May 06, 2010, 05:43 PM
Newly found bug/exploit:

The claim territory command in fixed borders doesn't check if the land has become occupied by a city. So when I claimed a stone tile on the turn right before Gandhi tried to settle his pioneer there, guess who got the city - right after being evicted from the territory.

No buildings, though. That was a disappointment. Then again, I did get a free cavalry.

After thinking about it, I rather exploits like this stay in, just that the player will see appropriately negative consequences for their actions, making the exploit a choice with pros and cons.

So an alternative to simply getting rid of this might be to allow the changeover to happen, then hit relations with that AI with a -2 modifier (-1 to all that AI's allies), or with a very long memory. Perhaps it could be treated similar to capturing an AI city.

Retrospect
May 06, 2010, 05:57 PM
I've noticed that Personalised maps does not show the event signs (but does give bonuses) on the larger maps. Tried it on Giant and had this result. But on standard I can see the event signs perfectly.
I'll try out all the sizes and see what happens.

Afforess is there a way to reduce how many landmarks are generated? I would like to see around 10% of what is currently appearing on my maps.

Afforess
May 06, 2010, 06:29 PM
Scribler & Retrospect, both bugs are confirmed. I'll fix them in Patch D.

gramcrkr103
May 06, 2010, 06:38 PM
Afforess is there a way to reduce how many landmarks are generated? I would like to see around 10% of what is currently appearing on my maps.

I would agree with that. Theres often cities that have the same name since theres a landmark every 5-10 spaces

AndarielHalo
May 06, 2010, 07:15 PM
I don't know if you've already caught this for a future patch or release, but a lot of buildings to build tell me that it gives NEGATIVE stuff...

Example, a Tailor's Shop says it will give -4 coin if I build it. A Madrassa says it will give me -8 research and +3 culture. Even Markets are advertising negative gold with positive happiness

scribbler
May 06, 2010, 07:26 PM
I don't know if you've already caught this for a future patch or release, but a lot of buildings to build tell me that it gives NEGATIVE stuff...

Example, a Tailor's Shop says it will give -4 coin if I build it. A Madrassa says it will give me -8 research and +3 culture. Even Markets are advertising negative gold with positive happiness

Make sure you're running 1.73 updated to Patch C (or wait until Patch D comes out). What you're describing is a known issue that should have been fixed (possibly with patch B). It's only an issue if you're having these problems with patch C.

AndarielHalo
May 06, 2010, 07:27 PM
It crashed

scribbler
May 06, 2010, 08:10 PM
Taking this out of the main download thread cause it would be off topic there.

It's been a rather quiet few days. Anyway, I'm done with Exams, and have more free time (but a slower internet connection; only 2MP/s)


You hitting the sauce early there, old soldier? :lol: Sorry, but that's pretty much the first thing that I thought of reading that.


Patch D's bug fixes are primarily done. I need to look at Fixed Borders, and the bug Scribbler reported; but other than that, I've fixed everything.


Awesome, I did something useful! Hmm, fifth, no, fourth time in my life :crazyeye: No chance you'd let us keep it but with a popup that allows you to declare war over it? Suppose that would be too complicated.


Patch D will also include a little bit of new content. A welcome surprise, yes?

Anyway, with Fixed Borders, forts will exert a 1 tile Zone of Control, but only if there is a unit in it, defending. If there is enemy units will be allowed to approach, but not go past or around forts, so players could use forts to build a strong border.


Well, not at all surprised about you adding new features (you probably think I like writing in bugs...and you would be right :mischief:), and I have to admit that it sounds good.

I am worried that we'll end up not being able to move up to the forts in certain circumstances, though. Or that because we're on a square grid, we'll end up with too many holes. Plus, does the AI know how to do this stuff? Lots of stuff for us to test here.

So how are you doing it? Checking to see if a unit that is on a tile beside an enemy occupied fort tries to pass onto another tile beside an enemy occupied fort? Does land ownership matter? Or the strength of the most powerful occupying unit?

My take is that the following rules should be used, or the ZoC is gonna be too powerful for the human player (although just about everything about this feature seems like a knuckle-punch to the AI ):

Fort occupant must be capable of attacking for ZoC to be active, so sticking a Machine Gun or Recon unit in a fort would not activate ZoC (but would give the Cavalry that is running the ZoC lots of defense).
If the ZoC unit has >60% chance to win (without withdraw) in attacking the incoming unit, ZoC is fully enforced: trespassing fails.
If the ZoC unit has <40% chance to win+withdraw, ZoC is not enforced: trespassing succeeds.
However, if ZoC unit has >40% chance to win+withdraw but <60% chance to win (only), ZoC is disputed: trespassing unit is attacked by ZoC unit. This way it should be possible to whittle down the the defenders without investing the fort itself, a tactic which has many historical parallels.
The trespassing unit's withdraw is factored and allows it to retreat.
If possible, the AI should be aware of these possibilities.


Of course I don't insist or anything, and realize that this might not be technically possible. But what worries me is that anything like ZoC will create a far too powerful tool for the human player versus the AI.

I've also re-written Defender Withdraw, so that it actually works. KillMePlease's version had bugs in it, so that the defender would never actually withdraw, and units would continue fighting.

Defenders will be able to withdraw, if they have a high enough withdraw chance, and will lose the battle. They will only withdraw if there is a "safe" plot to withdraw to. A player can stop defenders from withdrawing by simply ensuring that there are no "safe" plots to go to.

I defined a "safe" plot as one the unit can move into, and has NO enemy units within 1 radius of it.

Patch D will might be out late tonight, but more likely tomorrow evening.

Sounds interesting. Only problem I have with this is what I mentioned just before -- the AI doesn't know how to use this stuff. Well, not unless it has tons of units (like the Portuguese did in my most recent game -- but only because I used them to train up some units with 100% withdraw. And when I say some, I mean 20, and when I say train up, I mean 2000xp. And yeah, that's probably an exploit, but it's cut back rather strongly, if not elegantly, by the upgrade XP limit.)

scribbler
May 06, 2010, 08:18 PM
It crashed

Damn. Which version of AND were you playing before? It wasn't one of the 1.73 betas? None of the 1.73 betas are compatible with the final version. Then again, all of the betas had far too many show-stopping problems :(

I hate losing a fun game myself, restarting from scratch, but that's the nature of playing with betas.

AndarielHalo
May 06, 2010, 08:35 PM
Damn. Which version of AND were you playing before? It wasn't one of the 1.73 betas? None of the 1.73 betas are compatible with the final version. Then again, all of the betas had far too many show-stopping problems :(

I hate losing a fun game myself, restarting from scratch, but that's the nature of playing with betas.



... oy..

it was 1.73beta3.

Does that mean 1.73 has been fully released?

Arakhor
May 06, 2010, 08:41 PM
Uh, yes. Patch C is already out.

AndarielHalo
May 06, 2010, 08:48 PM
Uh, yes. Patch C is already out.



My implication being that I assumed the lettered patches were for the latest beta version of 1.73

Arakhor
May 06, 2010, 09:01 PM
Lettered patches are only for full versions - beta patches only increase in number. 1.73C is already out.

Afforess
May 06, 2010, 10:18 PM
Scribbler, I don't think I can make zone of control optional; either it is enforced, or not, nothing in between.

The way it works is that you can move anywhere you want, until you enter the 1 tile radius of an occupied fort. Once inside the Fort's ZoC, you can only move OUT or Attack the fort. I did testing beforehand, I'm just deathly afraid I've added new bugs.

The other big vector for new bugs is that I modularized BattleField Promotions & Dynamic XP, so I could get Defender Withdraw to work. My tests seem fine.. but who knows. Most players won't notice a huge change with patch D, but there has been a lot of changes behind the scenes.

scribbler
May 07, 2010, 01:22 AM
Scribbler, I don't think I can make zone of control optional; either it is enforced, or not, nothing in between.

The way it works is that you can move anywhere you want, until you enter the 1 tile radius of an occupied fort. Once inside the Fort's ZoC, you can only move OUT or Attack the fort. I did testing beforehand, I'm just deathly afraid I've added new bugs.

The other big vector for new bugs is that I modularized BattleField Promotions & Dynamic XP, so I could get Defender Withdraw to work. My tests seem fine.. but who knows. Most players won't notice a huge change with patch D, but there has been a lot of changes behind the scenes.

I figured it might be something like that. Glad you're giving it a go with what you're doing already.

Slammer64
May 07, 2010, 04:27 PM
Afforess, I love what you have done with AND, 1.73D is the best yet, but I was wondering if there is a way to turn off random city names when using personalized maps?

0100010
May 07, 2010, 05:23 PM
1. Please turn off the freshwater flag for jungles in FeatureInfo. (I consider this as part of BetterRoM) I am fairly certain that this adds to the stupid factor when the AI decides where to place cities in jungle zones. When I turn fresh water on jungles off, the AI makes someone better (though still mostly dumb) choices for placing cities in jungle zones. They have a somewhat greater tendency to place them closer to natural freshwater than just anywhere that next to a jungle tile.


Better solution. I'll tweak the AI so they ignore fresh water from jungles. ;)


2. Enable the ability to build improvements on an oasis (again just another featureinfo xml change)

Yeah; I'll do this; I agree, it is needed.


I still think jungles should have freshwater turned off (it gets weird when the jungles are cleared)

You forgot to make this change to oasis in the patch (no change in file from patch 1.73D)

os79
May 07, 2010, 05:27 PM
Afforess, I love what you have done with AND, 1.73D is the best yet, but I was wondering if there is a way to turn off random city names when using personalized maps?

Just type in your preferred name for that city until there is a way to do that because there isn't :).

Slammer64
May 07, 2010, 05:43 PM
Ok, thanks os79, I suspected as much but I had to check to be sure.

Hydromancerx
May 08, 2010, 01:18 AM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4588567990_7b29400850_o.jpg

I noticed a weird thing happens for the harbor. As you can see in the Civpedia it has health and commerce. However in the actual yield it shows health, commerce and .... production?!?! Where did that come from? Note that I have shrimp and fish resources so the health listed is correct. Any idea why I have this error?

Afforess
May 08, 2010, 01:21 AM
Trade Routes? Trade routes can provide production, and the Harbor boosts trade route values.

Hydromancerx
May 08, 2010, 01:25 AM
Trade Routes? Trade routes can provide production, and the Harbor boosts trade route values.

Oh I thought trade routs gave commerce. How do trade routes work?

Afforess
May 08, 2010, 01:35 AM
Oh I thought trade routs gave commerce. How do trade routes work?

They can give all three types of yields, commerce, food, and production. The ratio of the three depends on your civics.

Iceciro
May 08, 2010, 01:44 AM
Question: Is there another way to get Semiconductors aside from the WORLD wonder, that I'm missing, or can only one civ build those awesome robotic units that require the resource (as opposed to the identically named technology)

Hydromancerx
May 08, 2010, 01:57 AM
They can give all three types of yields, commerce, food, and production. The ratio of the three depends on your civics.

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

JaeChunDaeSung
May 08, 2010, 09:59 AM
I found short clips for Wonder footage, two of the historic Cheomsongdae and Dosan Seowon, but where or who would I best submit them to?

Justin Cray
May 08, 2010, 12:52 PM
Question: Is there another way to get Semiconductors aside from the WORLD wonder, that I'm missing, or can only one civ build those awesome robotic units that require the resource (as opposed to the identically named technology)

yeah, should be a national wonder imho

Afforess
May 08, 2010, 01:51 PM
I found short clips for Wonder footage, two of the historic Cheomsongdae and Dosan Seowon, but where or who would I best submit them to?

PM me with links to them. ;)

SR-71
May 08, 2010, 02:58 PM
Hello! First of all congratulations for your excellent work, as ever...:)

Second, I have observed the resource refinement buildings (sulphur distillery, stone pit... ecc) have dissapeared from the game with 1.73. Is this intentional or I have some fault in my loading? :confused:

Greetings ;)

Afforess
May 08, 2010, 03:40 PM
Yes, Resource Refinement, and other content was removed from the game to produce better balance, and better overall gameplay.

gramcrkr103
May 08, 2010, 04:59 PM
I didn't even get a chance to use the sniper, surgeon, and storyteller. Plan on re-implementing anything later?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 08, 2010, 05:31 PM
I didn't even get a chance to use the sniper, surgeon, and storyteller. Plan on re-implementing anything later?

They are in my update of AAranda units which can be found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8605582&postcount=1). They will not be part of AND.

scribbler
May 08, 2010, 06:19 PM
So, I think this mod is maturing very nicely right now. No significant bugs that haven't already been reported. I'm really loving playing the way you've been

But as the lady said, "What have you done for us lately?" ;)

Here's some suggestions for 1.74 and beyond:


Do one of the following in UnitInfos:

Convert the <Special> tag into a list, allowing a unit to exist on multiple cargo manifests.
Create a logical argument <lSpecialCargo> that can override the <SpecialCargo> entry, and convert the special tag into a list. Examples:

<lSpecialCargo>SPECIALUNIT_PEOPLE&&SPECIALUNIT_MISSILE</lSpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>NONE</DomainCargo>
(Would allow a cruiser to carry missiles and great people)
<lSpecialCargo>!SPECIALUNIT_TRACK</lSpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>DOMAIN_LAND</DomainCargo>
(This is a better implementation of SPECIALUNIT_TROOP, I think)


If not possible, a second (and maybe even third) specialcargo tag in unitinfos and at least one but maybe two nSpecialCargo entries.
If any of these are used, we could allow Great People/Spies/Scouts and Special Forces troops to be carried on any fighting ship.
New improvement: Training Base. Instead of giving a defense bonus, Training Bases allow a high level unit to teach lower-level units, through either XP or Promotions (I favor promotions) of the same Domain in the stack, rules following something along these lines:

Max units of a given domain trained per turn (surrounding training tiles cannot be shared between same domain training units if 2 forts are 1 tile away from another), to be referred to from now on as training tiles:

Land Domain = Surrounding unimproved land tiles (roads excepted).
Water Domain = Surrounding unimproved water tiles (tunnels excepted).
Air Domain = Surrounding air tiles except city and town improvements (will not train over cities and towns, will train over forts and other training bases so long as they are not being used to train other air units). Needs at least one completely unimproved tile.

Max trainable XP = float(teaching unit base strength)/(training unit base strength)*(0.5+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))
Max XP per unit/turn = float(Max usable training area)/(# of training units in stack)*(1+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))
When units of the same type are being trained, training could be based on promotions:

Max Promotions copied per unit = (int)(trainer promotions)-(trainer promotions)/3+0.5
Max Promotions copied per turn per unit = (int)(Max usable training area)/(# of training units in stack)*(1+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))


Button for missiles and other units that can have a 'packed' status, that converts a number of them into one land unit for transport. Of course, only implement this if you can keep the AI from doing stupid things with it.

Iceciro
May 08, 2010, 06:44 PM
I'm going to repost this because I'm curious about it.

Question: Is there another way to get Semiconductors aside from the WORLD wonder, that I'm missing, or can only one civ build those awesome robotic units that require the resource (as opposed to the identically named technology)

Dancing Hoskuld
May 08, 2010, 06:46 PM
I'm going to repost this because I'm curious about it.

Question: Is there another way to get Semiconductors aside from the WORLD wonder, that I'm missing, or can only one civ build those awesome robotic units that require the resource (as opposed to the identically named technology)

You have to trade for them with the civ that built the wonder. They have a monopoly.

Iceciro
May 08, 2010, 07:51 PM
That seems a little silly/imbalanced. How likely is the AI (or hell, another player) going to give you a one-of military item that builds incredibly advanced weapons? Guess that's another change to national wonder for my personal build, though it doesn't help anyone else.

Killtech
May 08, 2010, 08:34 PM
That seems a little silly/imbalanced. How likely is the AI (or hell, another player) going to give you a one-of military item that builds incredibly advanced weapons? Guess that's another change to national wonder for my personal build, though it doesn't help anyone else.

or it should work as 'Manhattan Project' that enables alls civs to build these units after it's discovery. resource can be traded then without giving your neighbour a powerful weapon to strike you. (though might still boost production somewhat)

Afforess
May 08, 2010, 10:53 PM
So, I think this mod is maturing very nicely right now. No significant bugs that haven't already been reported. I'm really loving playing the way you've been

Yes, I expect 1.73 to remain a long-term release. Like how 1.55 was, for people who remember those days. ;)


But as the lady said, "What have you done for us lately?" ;)

Uh ZoC, patches, new content, civilopedia pages, and the new AND settings page, along with a truly killer AI. :p



Do one of the following in UnitInfos:

Convert the <Special> tag into a list, allowing a unit to exist on multiple cargo manifests.
Create a logical argument <lSpecialCargo> that can override the <SpecialCargo> entry, and convert the special tag into a list. Examples:

<lSpecialCargo>SPECIALUNIT_PEOPLE&&SPECIALUNIT_MISSILE</lSpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>NONE</DomainCargo>
(Would allow a cruiser to carry missiles and great people)
<lSpecialCargo>!SPECIALUNIT_TRACK</lSpecialCargo>
<DomainCargo>DOMAIN_LAND</DomainCargo>
(This is a better implementation of SPECIALUNIT_TROOP, I think)


If not possible, a second (and maybe even third) specialcargo tag in unitinfos and at least one but maybe two nSpecialCargo entries.
If any of these are used, we could allow Great People/Spies/Scouts and Special Forces troops to be carried on any fighting ship.
New improvement: Training Base. Instead of giving a defense bonus, Training Bases allow a high level unit to teach lower-level units, through either XP or Promotions (I favor promotions) of the same Domain in the stack, rules following something along these lines:

Max units of a given domain trained per turn (surrounding training tiles cannot be shared between same domain training units if 2 forts are 1 tile away from another), to be referred to from now on as training tiles:

Land Domain = Surrounding unimproved land tiles (roads excepted).
Water Domain = Surrounding unimproved water tiles (tunnels excepted).
Air Domain = Surrounding air tiles except city and town improvements (will not train over cities and towns, will train over forts and other training bases so long as they are not being used to train other air units). Needs at least one completely unimproved tile.

Max trainable XP = float(teaching unit base strength)/(training unit base strength)*(0.5+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))
Max XP per unit/turn = float(Max usable training area)/(# of training units in stack)*(1+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))
When units of the same type are being trained, training could be based on promotions:

Max Promotions copied per unit = (int)(trainer promotions)-(trainer promotions)/3+0.5
Max Promotions copied per turn per unit = (int)(Max usable training area)/(# of training units in stack)*(1+(tech+wonder+project+promotion modifiers))


Button for missiles and other units that can have a 'packed' status, that converts a number of them into one land unit for transport. Of course, only implement this if you can keep the AI from doing stupid things with it.


Care to open a thread, with more detail to these ideas? ;)

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 05:43 AM
I remember 1.55 - it was the first AND I tried :)

i_diavolorosso
May 09, 2010, 06:42 AM
I still remember the age of Affores Mod :D
When you still make any building we requested to you :p

Khoukharev
May 09, 2010, 09:10 AM
Repeatable end of turn CTD

0100010
May 09, 2010, 12:49 PM
Some quick initial observations on 1.73D
(Recommended install, eternity speed, smartmap script (bigger than gigantic via overridden X/Y, diety)

XP gain is still kinda high (not near as bad as 1.72) Some of the things that affect this is raging barbarians generating an XP machine, combined w/ battlefield promotions. I have 2 units w/ 92+ XP and I'm still in the first half of the ancient era. Named Great Generals ran out sometime around 3000BC.
Getting GG from Barbarians is also of course contributing to this excess. I though the XP gain limit against Barbs would still be still intact, only that what you did gain would help contibute to GG points.

To lessen the GG city spam, consider lower their XP bonus to +1 instead of +2.

Restricted cultural expansion: tried it out to see how it worked. Its DAMN annoying. Many times I need to get a culture zone covered on the 2nd ring of a city and it won't. I suggest that restricted culture spread only occur to expansion beyond the 2nd ring of a city. These are tiles that can't even be worked (nor for a long time anyway) so It doesn't completely screw over the cities. I beelined to Fixed Border via Monotheism just to get a solution to this problem.

strategyonly
May 09, 2010, 03:11 PM
Anything on the tech colors yet?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9147020&postcount=2200

scribbler
May 09, 2010, 03:26 PM
XP gain is still kinda high (not near as bad as 1.72) Some of the things that affect this is raging barbarians generating an XP machine, combined w/ battlefield promotions. I have 2 units w/ 92+ XP and I'm still in the first half of the ancient era. Named Great Generals ran out sometime around 3000BC.
Getting GG from Barbarians is also of course contributing to this excess. I though the XP gain limit against Barbs would still be still intact, only that what you did gain would help contibute to GG points.

Ah, that's nothing! Taking advantage of dynamic XP and the way it works when a unit withdraws from combat, I was able to get 20 Crusaders with over 1000XP, 3 of whom have over 2000XP. Not to mention so many GGs. Not to mention about 8 maxxed out GCs.

Mind you, that might be an exploit...:mischief:

Care to open a thread, with more detail to these ideas? ;)

As soon as I have the time. Very likely I'll be too busy to contribute much to the boards until the end of the week or so, and this does require some careful planning. (Even going out today to the potential client to assess how much work will need to be done).

Killtech
May 09, 2010, 03:51 PM
Ah, that's nothing! Taking advantage of dynamic XP and the way it works when a unit withdraws from combat, I was able to get 20 Crusaders with over 1000XP, 3 of whom have over 2000XP. Not to mention so many GGs. Not to mention about 8 maxxed out GCs.

Mind you, that might be an exploit...:mischief:

omg! that is why i deactivated the whole experience system lately for my test game. it's really quite some fun now to play without it when promotions are pretty rare and still have some value (auto-combat promotions from 1.73). it was much more fun to play that way although civ felt a little bit poorer without it.

but i have a suggestion. could the xp levels scale with difficulty? as the player is usually much more efficient with his military then the AI it's more than fair he get's a handicap in this section too. though it's not a solution to the problem in general it should help to make the deity difficulty harder. i thought of something like a 2-4% more xp per level required but am not sure with these values. what do you think?

Afforess
May 09, 2010, 05:06 PM
XP gain is still kinda high (not near as bad as 1.72) Some of the things that affect this is raging barbarians generating an XP machine, combined w/ battlefield promotions. I have 2 units w/ 92+ XP and I'm still in the first half of the ancient era. Named Great Generals ran out sometime around 3000BC.
Getting GG from Barbarians is also of course contributing to this excess. I though the XP gain limit against Barbs would still be still intact, only that what you did gain would help contibute to GG points.

To lessen the GG city spam, consider lower their XP bonus to +1 instead of +2.


Before everyone begins bashing:

There is a bug with defending and Dynamic XP. Defenders are recieving too much XP, I know. Patch E should correct this. Likewise, there is also a second bug where GG points do not correctly reset after spawning. Patch E will also correct this.

Afforess
May 09, 2010, 05:21 PM
Repeatable end of turn CTD

I'm unable to load your save. Are you using Non-AND modifications?

Afforess
May 09, 2010, 05:24 PM
Anything on the tech colors yet?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9147020&postcount=2200

I haven't noticed any issues with them, but if there is a bug with the Tech Tree; it is a RoM problem.

gramcrkr103
May 09, 2010, 07:04 PM
I found something weird, dont know if its a bug though...
My modern destroyer doesn't seem to be able to go in the coastal plots for some reason. I checked in the WB, and there weren't any hidden units, the destroyer has enough movement points... I want to go attack that helicopter off the coast but I cant lol
252148

Dancing Hoskuld
May 09, 2010, 10:17 PM
I found something weird, dont know if its a bug though...
My modern destroyer doesn't seem to be able to go in the coastal plots for some reason. I checked in the WB, and there weren't any hidden units, the destroyer has enough movement points... I want to go attack that helicopter off the coast but I cant lol
252148

is that a fort zone-of-control effect?

scribbler
May 09, 2010, 10:49 PM
I found something weird, dont know if its a bug though...
My modern destroyer doesn't seem to be able to go in the coastal plots for some reason. I checked in the WB, and there weren't any hidden units, the destroyer has enough movement points... I want to go attack that helicopter off the coast but I cant lol
252148

Heh, working as intended. It's because the ZoC of the Infantry in the Fort is keeping you from passing. You'll have to take the Fort before you can advance into the harbor.

Nice. I need to get back into my game. Hopefully some of the AI will be that smart.

strategyonly
May 10, 2010, 12:46 AM
Playing 2.91, AND PatchD only, i encountered this again?

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Mint Green UI} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows


Its says that i cant build a Butchery anymore, but on the same screen it has listed a Butchery in the available items, (screen: same date, same turn?)

Different situation:

Also in Fixed Borders if an unit razes a barbarian city you cant enter its border since no border agreement has been signed for a two tile square? Then you cant move in that border area? (On the third screenie, dont look at the civs flags, i know it has alot of added stuff, but this happens in a normal RoM/AND also) has nothing to do with the above in i have which is just RoM and AND, ok.

os79
May 10, 2010, 04:14 AM
I have an infinite AI turn bug.

Here is the AND log:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation Terraforming {Lead From Behind} Sports ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows


Here are details of my install:
Deleted Unitinfos and Unitschema files from Advanced Diplo
1.8 Version of Vincentz "vanilla" pack (Jungle, Industry, and the rest of these) EXCEPT for Warlords (deleted that one)
Plus three more from Vincentz pack only (Thor, SpySat, and Silent Hunter)
No other modifications...

szemek77
May 10, 2010, 04:27 AM
I remember 1.55 - it was the first AND I tried :)

Wasn't so long time ago :) Seems like eternity, though.....

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 05:32 AM
Only Snail. Eternity was when Afforess first brought out his mod collection :)

szemek77
May 10, 2010, 06:55 AM
Yes, I expect 1.73 to remain a long-term release. Like how 1.55 was, for people who remember those days. ;)

Afforess, I would like to truly congratulate you on the 1.73 version of AND.
It is just great. Bug free, stable, difficult enough to pose a nice challenge and works really fast. :goodjob: I mentioned it before, but I want to repeat that quality>quantity approach is a superb decision! Keep up great work!

strategyonly
May 10, 2010, 07:33 AM
I got this error when i tried to go into the WB? Any idea whats it about?

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 07:42 AM
I'd hazard a guess that's because you don't have your disk in when you're playing :)

strategyonly
May 10, 2010, 07:55 AM
I'd hazard a guess that's because you don't have your disk in when you're playing :)

thats what i dont understand, in 3.19 you dont have to have your disk in anymore, of course with the patches installed, (which i have updated to of course):crazyeye:


No wonto something else: Is there anything on this error yet, it keeps coming up when IN CITY and try to upgrade to next upgrade of that unit??

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Mint Green UI} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows

scribbler
May 10, 2010, 12:28 PM
I got this error when i tried to go into the WB? Any idea whats it about?

Read this.

Although you're using Windows 7, it should still apply.

It should have nothing to do with Civ let alone AND.

thats what i dont understand, in 3.19 you dont have to have your disk in anymore, of course with the patches installed, (which i have updated to of course):crazyeye:

No wonto something else: Is there anything on this error yet, it keeps coming up when IN CITY and try to upgrade to next upgrade of that unit??



Yeah, it's a very aggressive form of PEBKAC. T2M4UK.PEBKAC to be precise. You seem to be really afflicted by it. I wish you the best of luck resolving your PEBKAC issues, but I'm frankly worried that they may be too far gone. :rolleyes:

As an aside: upgrading from within the city screen is a no-no. Do you have a custom script designed to upgrade a unit from within the city? Perhaps a keyboard shortcut?

mrmistophelees
May 10, 2010, 12:35 PM
Hey, I had 1.73B installed and I had played several hundred turns ( I guess) on Snail. Then today, I just patched to update D over my install, and now my save game won't load. I have no other mods installed or running, just Rise of mankind 1.92 with New dawn 1.73B (now D).

Any Ideas?

scribbler
May 10, 2010, 12:55 PM
Hey, I had 1.73B installed and I had played several hundred turns ( I guess) on Snail. Then today, I just patched to update D over my install, and now my save game won't load. I have no other mods installed or running, just Rise of mankind 1.92 with New dawn 1.73B (now D).

Any Ideas?

RoM should be 2.91. Guess you've got a bit of dyslexia (happens to all of us).

Any chance you have some other modmod installed (like HAND)? If so, you might want to install that again.

If that doesn't work, can you try a clean install of RoM 2.91+AND 1.73+Patch D? Just make sure to install all the exact same modules -- look in your 'A New Dawn.log' file in the RoM mod folder to ensure you've got everything exactly right.

If that doesn't resolve the issue, I'm sure Afforess can provide you with a copy of Patch B if you've lost yours.

NBAfan
May 10, 2010, 01:44 PM
I got this error when i tried to go into the WB? Any idea whats it about?I get that too from time to time:crazyeye:. No need to worry though, just click continue and it sould be fine.

Afforess
May 10, 2010, 01:50 PM
Hey, I had 1.73B installed and I had played several hundred turns ( I guess) on Snail. Then today, I just patched to update D over my install, and now my save game won't load. I have no other mods installed or running, just Rise of mankind 1.92 with New dawn 1.73B (now D).

Any Ideas?

Were you playing a multiplayer game, or using locked modified assets? If so, patches will break those saves.

mrmistophelees
May 10, 2010, 02:03 PM
Were you playing a multiplayer game, or using locked modified assets? If so, patches will break those saves.

I was only playing singer player and did not have locked modified assets checked.

And I'm sure scribbler is right, I'm playing with ROM 1.91. I was just recalling the number from memory :p

For the record, here is my log file:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Black UI} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows

Afforess
May 10, 2010, 02:43 PM
@ mrmistophelees,

You are playing with an outdated version. Update to 1.73 before adding patches.

Afforess
May 10, 2010, 02:45 PM
@ mrmistophelees,

You are playing with an outdated version. Update to 1.73 before adding patches.

mrmistophelees
May 10, 2010, 04:45 PM
@ mrmistophelees,

You are playing with an outdated version. Update to 1.73 before adding patches.

By god u r right! But..but... when did u update from 1.72 to 1.73? I reinstalled Civ IV + your mod just about a week ago or so!! Bizarre! :cry:

I suppose this means my save game goes down the toilet now... right? I have to reinstall your mod and then start a new game?

Afforess
May 10, 2010, 05:16 PM
By god u r right! But..but... when did u update from 1.72 to 1.73? I reinstalled Civ IV + your mod just about a week ago or so!! Bizarre! :cry:

I suppose this means my save game goes down the toilet now... right? I have to reinstall your mod and then start a new game?

Yep. 1.73 came out about a week ago or so. :p

scribbler
May 10, 2010, 05:26 PM
I get that too from time to time:crazyeye:. No need to worry though, just click continue and it sould be fine.

It's a removable disk issue, obviously. But I've never had it happen to me, and googling hasn't shown any significant number of people having this issue with Civ IV. So I'll have to guess that either:

1. You've got a mod that tries to access another drive letter for some reason.
2. You need to go into system management and fix up drive letter assignments.

Don't know which, but the link I posted might be able to help with number 2. And if it doesn't, then google \Device\Harddisk1\dr1. That should lead you to a solution. (Just be careful mucking around with the computer settings - don't format data drives :D )

By god u r right! But..but... when did u update from 1.72 to 1.73? I reinstalled Civ IV + your mod just about a week ago or so!! Bizarre! :cry:

I suppose this means my save game goes down the toilet now... right? I have to reinstall your mod and then start a new game?

Afforess got 1.73 out either April 30th, or May 1st.

Unfortunately, you'll have to reinstall. And don't try to shortcut it by installing the mod over what you have already. Install everything fresh. RoM 2.91->AND 1.73->Patch D.

It's easy to get confused by it all. There was one player last week that didn't install RoM first :D He was sure he did -- so sure that when he was asked about it the first time, he swore he'd done it (obviously without verifying). Happens to everyone; once you know something is true, it's hard to accept being wrong.

That's the first rule of troubleshooting. Assumptions have teeth. They're the primary reason why we make mistakes -- we have bad info but assume it's good without verifying. I've done it myself.

Now, sometimes no matter how hard you try, you still get stuck with bad info. In that case you need to go back all the way to step 1:

"Initally, the universe we are currently occupying was...so based on that the laws of physics of this universe require that..." It might just take you a bit of time to get back to your problem. :evil:

IOW, you're up s**t creek without a paddle.

mrmistophelees
May 10, 2010, 06:20 PM
haha.. oh well. Thanks for the help guys~ Back to 6000BC I go....

os79
May 10, 2010, 07:22 PM
:coughcough:

Any comment on my bug report about the infinite loop?

Arkatakor
May 10, 2010, 09:15 PM
This bug is rather unusual; no CTD - when I end turn and it gets to the "Waiting for other Civilizations" part, basically the wait becomes an eternal one - hence the AI seems to get stuck in an infinite loop of some sort. Again, the game does not freeze - I was even able to exit normally through the menu whilst it was still "Waiting for other civilizations"; Uploaded save + my AND log file for verification.

Upon ending the turn of this save, prepare for an eternal wait...

My A New Dawn.log :

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
D:\games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

civ_king
May 10, 2010, 09:19 PM
It's a removable disk issue, obviously. But I've never had it happen to me, and googling hasn't shown any significant number of people having this issue with Civ IV. So I'll have to guess that either:

1. You've got a mod that tries to access another drive letter for some reason.
2. You need to go into system management and fix up drive letter assignments.

Don't know which, but the link I posted might be able to help with number 2. And if it doesn't, then google \Device\Harddisk1\dr1. That should lead you to a solution. (Just be careful mucking around with the computer settings - don't format data drives :D )



Afforess got 1.73 out either April 30th, or May 1st.

Unfortunately, you'll have to reinstall. And don't try to shortcut it by installing the mod over what you have already. Install everything fresh. RoM 2.91->AND 1.73->Patch D.

It's easy to get confused by it all. There was one player last week that didn't install RoM first :D He was sure he did -- so sure that when he was asked about it the first time, he swore he'd done it (obviously without verifying). Happens to everyone; once you know something is true, it's hard to accept being wrong.

That's the first rule of troubleshooting. Assumptions have teeth. They're the primary reason why we make mistakes -- we have bad info but assume it's good without verifying. I've done it myself.

Now, sometimes no matter how hard you try, you still get stuck with bad info. In that case you need to go back all the way to step 1:

"Initally, the universe we are currently occupying was...so based on that the laws of physics of this universe require that..." It might just take you a bit of time to get back to your problem. :evil:

IOW, you're up s**t creek without a paddle.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

NBAfan
May 10, 2010, 11:34 PM
It seems the infinite loop bug is back.

aender
May 10, 2010, 11:36 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

awesome

scribbler
May 10, 2010, 11:48 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

:lol: xkcd ftw!

I so needed that. Just came back (when I read this, a couple hours ago) from trying to explain to a client why I must know how THE software the office is dependent on functions and what it needs from the network to rebuild her network, particularly since she says it's finicky, and that's about the whole of her technical expertise.

"But I don't want to change anything!" was her refrain. Sigh. :rolleyes:

Of course she doesn't. But that's not going to change the fact that she has a network which needs 99.9% uptime working over an el-cheapo home router which hasn't even had it's firmware updated and which the people that worked on it didn't even leave proper passwords, but which I'm not allowed to touch to figure out what in the world they did.

:cry:

scribbler
May 10, 2010, 11:57 PM
:coughcough:

Any comment on my bug report about the infinite loop?

This bug is rather unusual; no CTD - when I end turn and it gets to the "Waiting for other Civilizations" part, basically the wait becomes an eternal one - hence the AI seems to get stuck in an infinite loop of some sort. Again, the game does not freeze - I was even able to exit normally through the menu whilst it was still "Waiting for other civilizations"; Uploaded save + my AND log file for verification.

Upon ending the turn of this save, prepare for an eternal wait...

My A New Dawn.log :

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
D:\games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

It seems the infinite loop bug is back.

Well, I'm unlikely going to be able to touch these until at least Wednesday, but I'll try to take a look before. Not that I'm Afforess.

I take it you guys are using patch D?

civ_king
May 11, 2010, 12:39 AM
:lol: xkcd ftw!

I so needed that. Just came back (when I read this, a couple hours ago) from trying to explain to a client why I must know how THE software the office is dependent on functions and what it needs from the network to rebuild her network, particularly since she says it's finicky, and that's about the whole of her technical expertise.

"But I don't want to change anything!" was her refrain. Sigh. :rolleyes:

Of course she doesn't. But that's not going to change the fact that she has a network which needs 99.9% uptime working over an el-cheapo home router which hasn't even had it's firmware updated and which the people that worked on it didn't even leave proper passwords, but which I'm not allowed to touch to figure out what in the world they did.

:cry:
catch 22? such is the life of the techie

Arkatakor
May 11, 2010, 01:12 AM
Well, I'm unlikely going to be able to touch these until at least Wednesday, but I'll try to take a look before. Not that I'm Afforess.

I take it you guys are using patch D?I simply downloaded the latest version as per the following download link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12838

I did not do any patching beyond that - I simply downloaded and installed as per the above link.

os79
May 11, 2010, 01:14 AM
Well, I'm unlikely going to be able to touch these until at least Wednesday, but I'll try to take a look before. Not that I'm Afforess.

I take it you guys are using patch D?

:sarcasm: Oh, I don't know how to patch up :D. I need a tech nerd to guide me through patching process by reading the first post with the clarity of fifth reader :lol:.

Enough with sarcasm from me. Answer: But of course! :)

Afforess
May 11, 2010, 01:56 AM
@Arkatakor

I'm unable to load your save. Have you made other modifications, or added other modmods?

@Others

Remember whose thread you are posting in. ;)

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 02:10 AM
catch 22? such is the life of the techie

Bah, if she wasn't a new client she'd already know that I can get out of pretty much any tech problem that's even remotely solvable without resorting to the source code (especially when I'm on site). Double-plus-speed when I can use a hammer! So how do you tell someone, "Lady, you're paying me to do this. I can do it the way I say I'll do it, or I can do it by tiptoeing. Guess which way is going to take longer and cause more headaches..."

Ah, now I got what I'm going to say tomorrow. Guess I let her get to me to much, and forgot I'm my own boss. Worst thing she can do is kick me out the door, and I don't need the damn aggravation that much.

I simply downloaded the latest version as per the following download link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12838

I did not do any patching beyond that - I simply downloaded and installed as per the above link.

:sarcasm: Oh, I don't know how to patch up :D. I need a tech nerd to guide me through patching process by reading the first post with the clarity of fifth reader :lol:.

Enough with sarcasm from me. Answer: But of course! :)

Fine, be that way! :p

Well, I tried the save from Arkatakor and can confirm. Not sure if it's the same as for you, but it looks like the game is having issues with a subprocess. Something is causing it to stop functioning, although it's unlike any other problem I've seen with this mod in that the interface is still active (although you can't select cities). Reminds me of a problem I once saw with either RoM 2.1 bare, or 2.1 with an early version of AND (back when it wasn't called AND).

And that's it for now. Been up too late as it is. I've got work in the morning, and likely will be out all day. Good luck hunting this one down Aff :D

@Arkatakor

I'm unable to load your save. Have you made other modifications, or added other modmods?


I had no problem loading it in 1.73 and Patch D. Could not continue passed the turn though.

@Arkatakor

@Others

Remember whose thread you are posting in. ;)

Wait, this isn't my thread? But my birthday's coming up soon!

Afforess
May 11, 2010, 02:18 AM
I had no problem loading it in 1.73 and Patch D. Could not continue passed the turn though.

Any chance you could upload your RoM folder, or just the modules folder for me?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 11, 2010, 03:18 AM
Just started a 1.73D game - something is wrong my forests are lakes?:crazyeye:

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 05:58 AM
Any chance you could upload your RoM folder, or just the modules folder for me?

Which folders do you need (or not need) from modules? And do you want anything else?

Well, hope this is OK. I didn't include all the modules, should just the ones that I (believe) come from AND. You'll need 7zip.

Modules.7z

Just started a 1.73D game - something is wrong my forests are lakes?:crazyeye:

Heh, that's pretty neat. Might be useful with some more info though.

Arkatakor
May 11, 2010, 07:31 AM
@Arkatakor

I'm unable to load your save. Have you made other modifications, or added other modmods?I changed some xml files to increase road movements etc but they should not be affect the loading process. Likely I am not "patched" - I downloaded 1.73 as is from:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12838

and did a clean install. I am unaware of any patching process as there is no explanation pertaining to that on your download page. Perhaps that could be the issue?

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 08:04 AM
I changed some xml files to increase road movements etc but they should not be affect the loading process. Likely I am not "patched" - I downloaded 1.73 as is from:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12838

and did a clean install. I am unaware of any patching process as there is no explanation pertaining to that on your download page. Perhaps that could be the issue?

That might be the issue. Read and follow the instructions on here.

Afforess
May 11, 2010, 01:52 PM
Just started a 1.73D game - something is wrong my forests are lakes?:crazyeye:

Looks like some post-processing on the part of the mapscript. At one point, those were lakes. Nothing I can do, I'm afraid. Try regenerating the map, landmarks are cleared and re-created.


and did a clean install. I am unaware of any patching process as there is no explanation pertaining to that on your download page. Perhaps that could be the issue?

Download, and run the installer. It should find the previous install location on it's own. Point and click. A caveman could do it. ;)

aender
May 11, 2010, 02:01 PM
dont let the geico guy read that

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 02:34 PM
I have an infinite AI turn bug.

Here is the AND log:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} Forestation Terraforming {Lead From Behind} Sports ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows


Here are details of my install:
Deleted Unitinfos and Unitschema files from Advanced Diplo
1.8 Version of Vincentz "vanilla" pack (Jungle, Industry, and the rest of these) EXCEPT for Warlords (deleted that one)
Plus three more from Vincentz pack only (Thor, SpySat, and Silent Hunter)
No other modifications...

So I'm bringing this up since I actually forgot your issue was similar but still somewhat different than Arkatakor's. Without sitting down and looking at them, but considering that all 1.73 freezing problems (that I currently rememberhave so far been related to cultural borders, could it be that Vincentz mods are doing something that isn't working with the new cultural borders (though I'll readily admit it might be something else)?

So can you check if you or anyone you have spy info on is about to grow a level in culture? At least then we could isolate down to whether it's an AND issue or a problem inherited from Vincetz's work.

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 02:49 PM
Afforess, would it be possible to change the resource exchange screen to allow exchange of resource stacks? With corporations it's often worth it to get 2xFish or 3xCows, or whatever whenever possible. Would be nice if we could do it in one go instead of of having to go back 3 times.

Of course, doing it properly would mean creating a commodities market, where civs bid on or against resources each turn, embargoes are enforced (and worked around), and there's crazy, lovely, mayhem, eh. :groucho:

Dancing Hoskuld
May 11, 2010, 03:47 PM
Afforess, would it be possible to change the resource exchange screen to allow exchange of resource stacks? With corporations it's often worth it to get 2xFish or 3xCows, or whatever whenever possible. Would be nice if we could do it in one go instead of of having to go back 3 times.

This would be very usefull.

Of course, doing it properly would mean creating a commodities market, where civs bid on or against resources each turn, embargoes are enforced (and worked around), and there's crazy, lovely, mayhem, eh. :groucho:

Evil, I tells ya, evil! I like it but make it every 10 turns or whatever the diplo unit of time is for treaties.

eekhoorn
May 11, 2010, 04:32 PM
One of the things I always do whenever I install a new mod is (a) increasing the frequency of events (changing the event chance per turn variable in modfolder/assets/xml/gameInfo/civ4eraInfos.xml) and (b) removing the most pesky negative events (modifying the chance to occur in a game to 0, in modfolder/assets/xml/events/civ4eventtriggerinfos.xml). This has always worked splendidly for me, in a whole range or mods. However, for some reason neither of those two changes has any effect in ROM - a new dawn; anyone have a clue why not?

os79
May 11, 2010, 04:53 PM
So I'm bringing this up since I actually forgot your issue was similar but still somewhat different than Arkatakor's. Without sitting down and looking at them, but considering that all 1.73 freezing problems (that I currently rememberhave so far been related to cultural borders, could it be that Vincentz mods are doing something that isn't working with the new cultural borders (though I'll readily admit it might be something else)?

So can you check if you or anyone you have spy info on is about to grow a level in culture? At least then we could isolate down to whether it's an AND issue or a problem inherited from Vincetz's work.

How do I check that?

EDIT: I meant I know about Espionage screen but I don't know how to read it and besides I don't use that screen during my games so far.

AndarielHalo
May 11, 2010, 05:14 PM
Stupid thing:

I am playing a game as the Sumerians, and deep into the game, I researched Mathematics, then Construction, all before Monarchy. So I got monarchy a while later, and converted to a Kingdom.

But my name remained "Empire of Sumeria"

Just as I feared from earlier playing in previous versions, the name isn't changing. I got so far as converting to a Republic, and I'm still "Empire of Sumeria"


I had turned off Revolutions mod (because they flood the world with too many civs) and Blitz'd a small campaign, did the same thing with discovering mathematics, then construction, then monarchy later, and converted, and the name changed.


Is there something wrong with the particular faction (Sumeria) or something I did or some game option I accidentally altered to cause the name not to change? It DID change from Tribe to City State to Empire, so I couldn't have just disabled the name-changer thing.


Also, how does the game decide to name you "Kingdom of Something" or "Something Kingdom of Capital City"?

Slammer64
May 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
@AndarielHalo, the name change only seems to work in Revolutions, as least that's been my experience.

AndarielHalo
May 11, 2010, 07:03 PM
Oh piss. And every game I play with Revolutions on starts getting insanely slow because the AI is too :):):):)tarded (or better known as "Total War"'d) to not have 8 revolutions within 1000 years

Afforess
May 11, 2010, 08:51 PM
Afforess, would it be possible to change the resource exchange screen to allow exchange of resource stacks? With corporations it's often worth it to get 2xFish or 3xCows, or whatever whenever possible. Would be nice if we could do it in one go instead of of having to go back 3 times.

Of course, doing it properly would mean creating a commodities market, where civs bid on or against resources each turn, embargoes are enforced (and worked around), and there's crazy, lovely, mayhem, eh. :groucho:

Not possible, because of the way the diplomacy screen works. Modders have very limited access to it.

scribbler
May 11, 2010, 11:27 PM
...Evil, I tells ya, evil! I like it but make it every 10 turns or whatever the diplo unit of time is for treaties.

Not possible, because of the way the diplomacy screen works. Modders have very limited access to it.

Damn, and the commodities market is way too complicated. Especially since doing it really right would mean overhauling the way resources are gathered from one tile/one resource, to x amount of resources a, b and c per turn, with a whole bunch of factors affecting them, including the price of beans on the market (higher price=farms are more likely to produce beans).

I don't expect to be able to do it until CiV, if at all.

Justin Cray
May 12, 2010, 03:24 AM
Damn, and the commodities market is way too complicated. Especially since doing it really right would mean overhauling the way resources are gathered from one tile/one resource, to x amount of resources a, b and c per turn, with a whole bunch of factors affecting them, including the price of beans on the market (higher price=farms are more likely to produce beans).

I don't expect to be able to do it until CiV, if at all.

yeah I don't think any game has or will have a feature like that, Victoria II (by Paradox Games) might come close (but is of course limited in scope)

scribbler
May 12, 2010, 08:52 AM
yeah I don't think any game has or will have a feature like that, Victoria II (by Paradox Games) might come close (but is of course limited in scope)

Well, it would be nice if we could mod a system like that in without bringing the entire computer to a screeching halt as it calculates yield changes on all the tiles in the most byzantine way possible.

DaemonBG
May 12, 2010, 10:27 AM
Hello! I have installed A New Dawn recently and so far, I'm loving the mod! However, I have ran into a problem. After a number of loads of saved games ( about 10 or so ) the game crashes. It does not allow me to load any saved game, be it autosave or not. It does not matter if I have play multiplayer or single player, the map type or size, after about 10 loads any attempt to load a saved game results in a crash, and no crash message is displayed. The I have Rise of Mankind 2.91 installed and A New Dawn 1.72, the game is running on a machine running Windows XP SP3. Any idea what is causing these crashes and how to fix them? Thank you in advance for your time

Khoukharev
May 12, 2010, 10:43 AM
I'm unable to load your save. Are you using Non-AND modifications?
no, not a single one.
I think I have an autosave 1 turn before the one I posted, should I attach it as well?

aender
May 12, 2010, 02:00 PM
question....i'm cuurrently using 1.73beta is the patches for that or do i need to redo everything again?

Afforess
May 12, 2010, 02:37 PM
Hello! I have installed A New Dawn recently and so far, I'm loving the mod! However, I have ran into a problem. After a number of loads of saved games ( about 10 or so ) the game crashes. It does not allow me to load any saved game, be it autosave or not. It does not matter if I have play multiplayer or single player, the map type or size, after about 10 loads any attempt to load a saved game results in a crash, and no crash message is displayed. The I have Rise of Mankind 2.91 installed and A New Dawn 1.72, the game is running on a machine running Windows XP SP3. Any idea what is causing these crashes and how to fix them? Thank you in advance for your time

1.73 fixed the CTD's.

question....i'm cuurrently using 1.73beta is the patches for that or do i need to redo everything again?

You are both running obsolete versions. You will need to delete your RoM folders, reinstall RoM 2.91, and Install AND 1.73

AndarielHalo
May 12, 2010, 05:20 PM
Is it typical for the game to crash when I try to enter WorldBuilder mid-game?

Dancing Hoskuld
May 12, 2010, 05:22 PM
Is it typical for the game to crash when I try to enter WorldBuilder mid-game?

For me the answer is yes. Which is why I save the game. Exit the game. Start the game. Load the save and then go into world builder. This suggests that the problem is memory related.

os79
May 12, 2010, 05:53 PM
Patch E hadn't solved the infinite loop bug in my saved game :(.

Killtech
May 12, 2010, 07:09 PM
@Afforess

maybe you just include a check in your install for exisiting folders in the modules directory of RoM and give some notification if someone is trying to install over an old AND version. would save you quite some time.

AndarielHalo
May 12, 2010, 07:31 PM
For me the answer is yes. Which is why I save the game. Exit the game. Start the game. Load the save and then go into world builder. This suggests that the problem is memory related.



I would not have asked the question if I weren't doing the exact same thing

digitCruncher
May 12, 2010, 08:05 PM
Version: 1.73D

Log file:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Improved Artwork} {Civic Diplomacy} {Trading Posts}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.73

Install Directory:
C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista


Anyway, two problems. Firstly, my game is very odd. One civ managed to get 3 holy cities in the same city, and survived. Needless to say, that civ is miles and miles ahead in terms of tech. So much so that it was 1372 when that civ discovered Marxism, and Rifles were widespred in 1535 AD. Civil Engineering in 1559. I have only recently got Rifles, and that was with a crazy beeline >.<

Now problem no 1: Tech diffusion doesn't work. I haven't got even one beaker yet!! This is pretty nasty for me, as I am now around 20-30 techs behind the Byzantine Behemoth.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6166/civ4screenshot1069.th.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ4screenshot1069.jpg)

And now no 2: Global warming has been made too easy to get. First global warming in my civ happened in 1535AD, when there were only a few basic factories without any coal plants or anything. Surely the huge amounts of forests should prevent global warming >.> But this is a minor thing, and might lead to more fun :D

But please fix Tech Diffusion... tech is really powerful in RoM, and without a 'rubber band effect' it becomes difficult! I cannot keep up with this massive Byzantine tech power!!

I just realised... I should say what the OTHER civs are researching. The problem is not that someone is researching Civil Engineering in the 16th century, rather they are MILES away from everyone else.

Screw Propeller: Byzantine
Grand War: Aztec
Replaceable Parts: Sumeria
Economics: Holy Rome
Flintlock: Russia
Algebra: Greece.

All but Russia are free civilisations. Russia is the vassal of Sumeria.

civ_king
May 12, 2010, 08:48 PM
Did this civilization found Hellenism and spread it heavily?

Afforess
May 12, 2010, 08:52 PM
Digitcruncher, Tech Diffusion doesn't give you free beakers, it alters the actual amount of beakers that the tech requires.

Afforess
May 12, 2010, 08:52 PM
Patch E hadn't solved the infinite loop bug in my saved game :(.

I didn't say it did.

digitCruncher
May 12, 2010, 08:57 PM
Oh... oh. I didn't know that change.

I see now why I no longer get free techs :P

And yes. That guy has the Hellenistic (and Christian, and Islamic, and Confusist) shrines. All but the Christian one is in all the cities. That explains why is GNP (and thus research rate) is through the roof. This guy is pulling *5 times* as many beakers than me >.< (Judging by his 5 turns research of Flight, compared to my 26 turns)

Now you know why I want tech diffusion :P But I am beelining Automatic Weapons, and planning on launching a surprise massive infantry raid against him. He will have Modern Infantry, bombers and Diesel ships by then, but I think that I can capture and raze that mega-city, which should both destabilize him and slow his growth.

Screw that plan. He got Automatic weapons before I even got Steam Ships, upgraded his entire army, and launched an amphibious attack on my little island. His initial invasion force killed off half of my cannon component of my army, with another large army still functional just over the sea. By the time I get Infantry and tanks, I would have likely lost most of my naval production, and he will have ICBMs >.> Or something.

And invading his city got me part of a tech... Mounted Archery. Yippee.

But thanks for the most fun game I have played in a long time :D

strategyonly
May 13, 2010, 02:47 AM
This guy is pulling *5 times* as many beakers than me >.< (Judging by his 5 turns research of Flight, compared to my 26 turns)

Now you know why I want tech diffusion :P But I am bee-lining Automatic Weapons, and planning on launching a surprise massive infantry raid against him. He will have Modern Infantry, bombers and Diesel ships by then, but I think that I can capture and raze that mega-city, which should both destabilize him and slow his growth.

Screw that plan. He got Automatic weapons before I even got Steam Ships, upgraded his entire army, and launched an amphibious attack on my little island. His initial invasion force killed off half of my cannon component of my army, with another large army still functional just over the sea. By the time I get Infantry and tanks, I would have likely lost most of my naval production, and he will have ICBMs >.> Or something.

Yeah i get the same on the techs, i have now played lately five games and every one of them their are a few civs that are at a minimum of ten techs ahead of me, and i have be-lined also, to NO avail:mad:

Killtech
May 13, 2010, 04:22 AM
wow, i'm astonished that the AI is able to do such wonders. but why oh why never in my games. anyway it seems religions play a very important part in their rise. my first assumption is that they got enough gold form the holy cities so that AI never turns down the research rate... and the additional research bonus from hellenism (which is quite heavy considering that with bigger maps sizes it also means more cities the religion can spread thus much more science income). what about a map-size scale factor for the gold/science bonus form religious holy cities?

that's why there is the 'one founded religion per civ' BUG option. it should be considered to make it a default anyway because leads to a better game development (better spread of religions, no overpowered civs - especially not the player civ...)

strategyonly
May 13, 2010, 06:36 AM
I didnt say anything about religions, thats why i left it out of your statement above.:rolleyes:

digitCruncher
May 13, 2010, 07:13 AM
The solution is simple. Spies.

It is a little dirty, but when you are 20 techs behind, and the major super-power on the other continent owns the AP, and has the entire continent eating out of its hand, a little deception can't hurt...

But ALOT of deception can :D I would love to look on Byzatines face now. The free, secular state is now a intolerant, jewish (!) nation. It's huge, and multi-national empire is breaking apart due to a powerful attitude of racism (Nationalism) and an inefficent Nobility in power.

Every decade or so, one or two highly guarded secrets are stolen by civilisations unknown. In the same time, despite the intolerant Aztec government completely wiping out all scientific progress and banning scientists and burning books (etc. etc.), they are advancing faster than they ever have before. Already, they are just 300 years behind the Byzantines, and that is only accellerating!

(PS. This technique FAILS unless you are in the early industrial era. In that era you get Police Stations, Intellegence Agencies, Media buildings, Facist, and many other espionage boosters)

Of course, it is REALLY broken, so I decided that I had lost this game, so I resorted to 'less than honourable' techniques.

I expect the Byzantine multi-national, multi-cultural super city to fall to the Persian rebels before 1800. :D :D :D :D :D

Oh, and I have a small bug report. The Banana Blight event causes an python exception when attempting to place the sign. I couldn't get a screenshot as the error message disappeared too early, but it said something about the place_sign method, or something. It could possibly be putting an event on a place where a sign already exists...

strategyonly
May 13, 2010, 01:10 PM
I think i figured out what is wrong with the coloring of the tech tree here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9147020&postcount=2200

If you use any of your UI's it changes the color of the techs also to that color pattern in the screenie, if no UI then it normal back to the pinkish, the way it should be.

os79
May 13, 2010, 03:58 PM
Playing on the second game, different sagegame because I still want you to solve that infinite loop eventually :D.

Anyway, I noticed that your explore AI for land units is good. But you need to work on naval exploration. I sent a trieme for exploration like 25 turns ago and it had been hawing and hewing near to my boundary for that long. (EDIT: Before you ask, yeah, I have a Open Borders with the civ nearby.) I had to end up manually move my trieme to explore. As it happens, my latest map has my civ smack in the island to the north of a mainland :lol:. No worries, as it give me time to develop armies for defense and offense later on :D. But I still think you should work on nanal exploration for AI :).

os79
May 13, 2010, 05:06 PM
I propose three things be obsolete at Industrialism:


Slave Market
National Slave Auction
Radical one: Slavery Civic


EDIT: Forgot the reasoning behind the above...

Let's see, throughout the Industrialization history in the last 200 years, the countries that adopted Industrialism in their economic system found themselves realizing that slavery is an obsolete system for productivity's purpose. They found either forced labor (fascism), free enterprise (whatever the hell it means, democratic republic), or an entire workforce under one standard (socialism, whatever your beliefs on that) as far more effective methods.

Besides, the slavery with later eras are overpowered together, if anyone even bother to stay with Slavery. That is a gameplay reasoning :D.

digitCruncher
May 13, 2010, 05:31 PM
Don't the Slave Market and National Slave Auction both obsolete with Labor Union (When workers rights were set in stone?)

Although maybe a penalty for Slavery after Labor Union / Industrialism would be a good idea. Possibly something like +2 :mad: with Factory, Manufactoring Plant. That would be better than wiping out Slavery all together.

However, slavery still exists in numerous countries around the world, in addition to the arguments that you can make about the poor working conditions in third world countries is a form of 'modern slavery'. Therefore, the slavery civic is still very much in use in the modern world.

0100010
May 13, 2010, 05:59 PM
From 1.73D game so far:

If you settle a city on top of a resource (like stone/marble.etc) that resource does not qualify as a pre-req of the "city vicinity". Example I could not build the stoneworkers hut in a city that was settled on top of a stone resource.

Some sort of max XP still need to be enforced against barbarian kills. Perhaps there should also be an ultimate max XP attainable by any unit

os79
May 13, 2010, 06:01 PM
Don't the Slave Market and National Slave Auction both obsolete with Labor Union (When workers rights were set in stone?)

Actually, only National Slave Auction obsoletes at Liberalism, thus the reason why I insist on obsoleting slave markets too. (That should do away with the need to look for them [hard to do with Hide Obsolete Buildings option on] and destroying them later on).

For the rest, I'm not so insistent, only gave them as a proposal.

Short answer: I insist on making Slave Markets obsolete at the same time as NSA. I don't insist so strongly on my other proposals :).

Dancing Hoskuld
May 13, 2010, 06:47 PM
Actually, only National Slave Auction obsoletes at Liberalism, thus the reason why I insist on obsoleting slave markets too. (That should do away with the need to look for them [hard to do with Hide Obsolete Buildings option on] and destroying them later on).

For the rest, I'm not so insistent, only gave them as a proposal.

Short answer: I insist on making Slave Markets obsolete at the same time as NSA. I don't insist so strongly on my other proposals :).

The NSA is one of my mods (original by Orion Veteran) and slave markets come with RoM. So are you suggesting Zappara change RoM, I change the mod with NSA or Afforess makes the change in AND? :mischief: Since I am going to change the Library of Alexandria to better fit with RoM, I could do this as well. Mind you, I am trying to get a new version of AAranda's religions out at the moment. There have just been too many AND releases for me to keep up - Afforess,this is an excuse not a complaint. :)

xcrissxcrossx
May 13, 2010, 07:51 PM
This is just a balance issue, and I would guess that Afforess would already know this, but the AI has an abnormally large number of spearmen from bronze working up until gunpowder. This makes mounted units almost useless except as advanced scouts.

os79
May 13, 2010, 11:28 PM
The NSA is one of my mods (original by Orion Veteran) and slave markets come with RoM. So are you suggesting Zappara change RoM, I change the mod with NSA or Afforess makes the change in AND? :mischief: Since I am going to change the Library of Alexandria to better fit with RoM, I could do this as well. Mind you, I am trying to get a new version of AAranda's religions out at the moment. There have just been too many AND releases for me to keep up - Afforess,this is an excuse not a complaint. :)

To clarify the problem:

National Slave Auction=Obsoletes at Liberalism
Slave Market=Obsoletes at N/A (not applicable)


So my solution was presented above. It is purely up to any of you three to either implement my solutions, make your own solutions, or completely ignore this one.

I'm insistent but not crying about it. It is not game-breaking. I jsut find it weird, is all :).

EDIT: I went ahead and changed the NSA's obsolete tech to NONE and change the cost from 80 to 120. It is a solution for now until you three choose a better solution :).

os79
May 14, 2010, 01:33 AM
Dunno if this is intended or a bug.
See the picture below. The fishing boat is still there but there is no longer a resource there.

EDIT: Btw, offtopic here: I will be moving from DC to Hanover Park, IL tmw night by Amtrak train. So I will not be commenting here anytime after here, if any. If nothing comes from me by about 5am or so, then I'll be here about sometime Sat. morning or early afternoon.

strategyonly
May 14, 2010, 05:01 AM
Got these with AND E?

Also i see they haven't fixed the Limited Religions yet:confused:

Talin2009
May 14, 2010, 06:25 AM
Playing now 1.73D game on Carter giant earth map and having a blast :)

Most latest changes are great and game is again very challenging. I would, however, tweak promotion value balancing a little more toward reducing promotions versus number of units ratio.

Only thing i would plead about - name generator for landmarks ... while having unique landmarks is fun seeing 90% of cities named like this - Hnesueti Nvabaue makes my eyes bleed and my brain explode ... only possible solution right now is turning it off altogether :(

And small problem with name generator - if there's landmark and 2 civs place cities near it - both cities would have same name.

Dithmarscher
May 14, 2010, 07:25 AM
I just installed AND Patch E with a complete new installation of RoM 2.91. I do not get any XP for defending against animals or attacking animals. Has this been changed with the latest patch ?

strategyonly
May 14, 2010, 08:04 AM
I just installed AND Patch E with a complete new installation of RoM 2.91. I do not get any XP for defending against animals or attacking animals. Has this been changed with the latest patch ?

Yeah i just noticed that also:confused:

EDIT: Here is a be-line of a couple of civs that we were talking about???? You dont stand a chance when this happens, they are more than twenty techs ahead.

Arakhor
May 14, 2010, 08:07 AM
You do need AND installed before you patch it :)

I had noticed that myself though.

Talin2009
May 14, 2010, 08:49 AM
Yeah i just noticed that also:confused:

EDIT: Here is a be-line of a couple of civs that we were talking about???? You dont stand a chance when this happens, they are more than twenty techs ahead.

Start your wars early and get small pack 4-5 units of mega promoted warriors-spearman-pikeman, accompanied with good promoted GG. And keep expanding crushing on neighbour weak and medium civs. Good GG and some tactics does wonders.

I'm at work now, tomorrow i will upload screens of my current game (Egypt was 30 cities, me 11, power ratio 0.4 (and this cause of me having 3 super promoted pikeman, which wouldn't help much against 60-stack of 30-mounted infantry, 25 light swordsman, 10 catapults etc.)).

I confess i had to reload once to 10 turns ago and start pumping out army - this prevented for 25 turns Nefertiti's assault on me due to power ratio i think (i had no chance with army of those 3 pikeman + 5 non-promoted archers + 3 non-promoted axeman)). On second try i had said army + 9 light swordsman and 6 catapults, and promoted 5 archers to longbowman). Nefertiti brought bigger stack ofc, adding 15 longbowmen, upgraded light swordsman into 10-str ones. Here's what i did: I left one of 2 border cities for it to conquer - after taking it Nefertiti left almost half of her mega stack there and moved half to attack second city (65% def, surrounded by rivers). I took an assault okay, lost one of 3 super pikeman, couple swordsman, 3 longbowman, while wiping 35 of his units getting tons of exp. After next turns counter-attacks his attacking army of doom ceased to exist, while mine medium sized became well-experienced and reinforced with arriving new troops.

I took back my city and started taking his cities, not giving time to mass any sizeable army. Now we are 21-21 cities wise, i took 2 cities with wonders, got lots of techs from conquest, he only have 1 out of 3 vassals left, tho he still 15-20 techs ahead.

scribbler
May 14, 2010, 09:53 AM
This is just a balance issue, and I would guess that Afforess would already know this, but the AI has an abnormally large number of spearmen from bronze working up until gunpowder. This makes mounted units almost useless except as advanced scouts.

Well, from a RL POV spearmen were nearly useless against horse unless they were very well disciplined and stayed in ranks. Granted, any military unit of the pre-rifle era that formed and could keep ranks was formidable on the battlefield, but the catch has always been that forming and keeping ranks is ninety percent training and ten percent experience. Same with pike and phalanx.

But Civ IV is horrible at dealing with these exceptions. In fact, I can think of dozens if not hundreds of other exceptions that should be but aren't in place. Horse archers, for instance, should be practically immune to everything but archers, faster horse mounted units, and their own hubris and excitement for battle. That's the reason why the Mongols were so effective. Of course, just having a killer unit isn't enough, as the fall of the Mongol empire showed, and keeping that high level of training and ability around is just as hard in its own way as keeping the training to form and hold ranks.

Only running up against infantry with strong enough shields to stop their arrows, which the infantry are well-enough trained to use (not an easy thing to accomplish) would mean either getting in close (and getting hurt in the process) or having almost no affect.

0100010
May 14, 2010, 09:54 AM
Game crashing bug 1.73E, using default install (I chose custom but didn't actually change any checkboxes) Installed AND, then patch D, then patch E on top.

I did use a modified bonusinfo and featureinfo xml but that's all.

IF you change Civs to the Native American's You wont crash but if you change civ's to the Persians (the next civ's turn after NA) you will crash. Obviously selecting any other civ after NA will also cause a crash.

EDIT: I suspect it's your landmark code. If you play the NA's turn, if you move one of their scouts north the game will crash. They are revealing a location of the map I edited in WB, which probably unbeknownst to me had a landmark tied to it. There isn't anything else around that I could think of as the issue. (Why did I edit the map in AI territory? does it matter? - actually I wanted some of the AI to survive the raging barbarians so created some defendable chokepoints which a city could get settled on. In this case it was Japan just to the north of the NA's scout. Would also let me see how things would turn out if some of the AI had some XP choke point GG farms instead of just me knowing how to take advantage of that)

Are landmarks locations pre-determined at map generation? Are their terrain types pre-determined then as well? (such values might change via WB) When a landmark site is revealed do you just show the precreated sign or is it created randomly on the spot based on the terrain that is active at the time?

EDIT: I was right. I entered WB as the NA civ, switch to reveal tile mod, and revealed a 5x5 area which created a forest landmark on top of a (now) mountain tile that I had altered. I did not crash via revealing from WB, only when revealing the landmark of an altered tile from unit movement.

Justin Cray
May 14, 2010, 12:15 PM
This is just a balance issue, and I would guess that Afforess would already know this, but the AI has an abnormally large number of spearmen from bronze working up until gunpowder. This makes mounted units almost useless except as advanced scouts.

actually light cavalry should make mincemeat out of spearmen

pikemen on the other hand shut down any horse army except maybe heavy cavalry (get those shock 1-3 too) but by then you should be on your way to gunpowder anyway :)

scribbler
May 14, 2010, 12:24 PM
Game crashing bug 1.73E, using default install (I chose custom but didn't actually change any checkboxes) Installed AND, then patch D, then patch E on top.


I did use a modified bonusinfo and featureinfo xml but that's all.

IF you change Civs to the Native American's You wont crash but if you change civ's to the Persians (the next civ's turn after NA) you will crash. Obviously selecting any other civ after NA will also cause a crash.

EDIT: I suspect it's your landmark code. If you play the NA's turn, if you move one of their scouts north the game will crash. They are revealing a location of the map I edited in WB, which probably unbeknownst to me had a landmark tied to it. There isn't anything else around that I could think of as the issue. (Why did I edit the map in AI territory? does it matter? - actually I wanted some of the AI to survive the raging barbarians so created some defendable chokepoints which a city could get settled on. In this case it was Japan just to the north of the NA's scout. Would also let me see how things would turn out if some of the AI had some XP choke point GG farms instead of just me knowing how to take advantage of that)

Are landmarks locations pre-determined at map generation? Are their terrain types pre-determined then as well? (such values might change via WB) When a landmark site is revealed do you just show the precreated sign or is it created randomly on the spot based on the terrain that is active at the time?

EDIT: I was right. I entered WB as the NA civ, switch to reveal tile mod, and revealed a 5x5 area which created a forest landmark on top of a (now) mountain tile that I had altered. I did not crash via revealing from WB, only when revealing the landmark of an altered tile from unit movement.

Glad you could find the source. I've always thought there should be a localized landmark regen when changing tiles, but I doubt it's really doable. Maybe landmark rebuild after leaving WB? Don't know.

So the thing I wanted to mention is that unless Afforess fixed it since the 1.73 Betas, the Default as seen on the install choices page is not the same as the default checks in custom installation.

Afforess
May 14, 2010, 12:35 PM
EDIT: I suspect it's your landmark code. If you play the NA's turn, if you move one of their scouts north the game will crash. They are revealing a location of the map I edited in WB, which probably unbeknownst to me had a landmark tied to it. There isn't anything else around that I could think of as the issue. (Why did I edit the map in AI territory? does it matter? - actually I wanted some of the AI to survive the raging barbarians so created some defendable chokepoints which a city could get settled on. In this case it was Japan just to the north of the NA's scout. Would also let me see how things would turn out if some of the AI had some XP choke point GG farms instead of just me knowing how to take advantage of that)

Are landmarks locations pre-determined at map generation? Are their terrain types pre-determined then as well? (such values might change via WB) When a landmark site is revealed do you just show the precreated sign or is it created randomly on the spot based on the terrain that is active at the time?

EDIT: I was right. I entered WB as the NA civ, switch to reveal tile mod, and revealed a 5x5 area which created a forest landmark on top of a (now) mountain tile that I had altered. I did not crash via revealing from WB, only when revealing the landmark of an altered tile from unit movement.

Yes, landmarks are pre-determined at startup. (It would be very very slow otherwise, it's a lot of calculations). Changing the tiles that contain landmarks will cause CTD's.
I don't even need to look at your saves... I know from my code. Don't cheat and use Personalized Maps.


So the thing I wanted to mention is that unless Afforess fixed it since the 1.73 Betas, the Default as seen on the install choices page is not the same as the default checks in custom installation.
No, it is.

NBAfan
May 14, 2010, 01:11 PM
Playing now 1.73D game on Carter giant earth map and having a blast :)

Most latest changes are great and game is again very challenging. I would, however, tweak promotion value balancing a little more toward reducing promotions versus number of units ratio.

Only thing i would plead about - name generator for landmarks ... while having unique landmarks is fun seeing 90% of cities named like this - Hnesueti Nvabaue makes my eyes bleed and my brain explode ... only possible solution right now is turning it off altogether :(

And small problem with name generator - if there's landmark and 2 civs place cities near it - both cities would have same name.That is what I dislike about the name generator , I don't like it naming my cities.

0100010
May 14, 2010, 04:28 PM
Yes, landmarks are pre-determined at startup. (It would be very very slow otherwise, it's a lot of calculations). Changing the tiles that contain landmarks will cause CTD's.
I don't even need to look at your saves... I know from my code. Don't cheat and use Personalized Maps.


What's ironic is that I personalized the map to give the AI advantages in order to make it more challenging for me and evaluate different situations. Different games for different purposes.

This still does not explain why it should crash on the triggering event of a landmark reveal. Obviously there is code that has to execute on a landmark reveal to make the sign visible and/or look up its name. A hash table lookup perhaps based on the tile plot coordinates? Why is tile type a requirement there? I understand tile type at the begging of the process used to construct the name, "such and such Forest", or "Mount Tallrock" etc. But once its a string who cares what the tile type is later. If you are using the tile type as a key in your landmark look up then the exception is probably a "did not find key" type of error for the cases when the tile type changed. Remove that as part of the key and just look up by tile coordinates and the tile type wont matter (even if it label is mismatched due to the tile change, but that the price for altering a tile.) These are very easily handled, if the key doesn't exist don't put up a sign.

What's going to happen to a landmark tile that was terraformed in the late game and then finally "discovered" by some other civ post tile alteration? This is a legitimate means of altering the tile w/out using the WB.

Afforess
May 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
The game saves the landmark type as an int, the name, and the adjective as strings. So, for a forest, 3 values are saved:

LANDMARK_FOREST
Hyboria
Forest of Hyboria

When the tile is revealed for your civilization, it looks for the forest icon. If you have removed the forest, a NULL icon is found, and the game crashes.

RobO
May 15, 2010, 12:14 AM
That is what I dislike about the name generator , I don't like it naming my cities.
I second that. Please revert to the old city naming scheme while using personalized maps.

Kroyon
May 15, 2010, 12:25 AM
I don't know if this is a ROM bug or AND bug but since I've never encountered this before I start here.

A section of my map contains a sea blocked trade greyed area but there is no enemy ships there, I opened the editor and theres definetly nothing, just my ships and my cities.

Those coastal cities used to be of another civ and from the fog I did see that greyed area much earlier in the game, however, once the fog was cleared and the cities conquered the blocked area failed to disappear.

Anybody knows a way I could manually edit it out? (for now and future events)

Also noticed somebody reported an invisible pirate corvette in the bugs reports section, could this be related?

Thanks

Afforess
May 15, 2010, 12:26 AM
Also noticed somebody reported an invisible pirate corvette in the bugs reports section, could this be related?


Must be it. It's a nasty random event. You will need to sweep every tile with your ships to hit it.

Afforess
May 15, 2010, 12:27 AM
I second that. Please revert to the old city naming scheme while using personalized maps.

Patch F, my friend... Patch F. ;)

RobO
May 15, 2010, 12:33 AM
Patch F, my friend... Patch F. ;)
Thank you.
You throw out patches so often these days, there ought to be a mailing list one could subscribe to in order to get a notification :cool:

Edit: Hey - there is no patch F yet.

Afforess
May 15, 2010, 12:37 AM
Thank you.
You throw out patches so often these days, there ought to be a mailing list one could subscribe to in order to get a notification :cool:

You can subscribe to the Sourceforge RSS feed (https://sourceforge.net/api/file/index/project-id/295810/mtime/desc/rss).


Edit: Hey - there is no patch F yet.

Yeah, I know. It's in the future. Grab your time machine, or wait in line...:p

Arkatakor
May 15, 2010, 05:13 AM
The Final Five game option is broken on higher difficulty levels. It kicks in too soon such that the human player will be the first to be eliminated as the AI always expands faster at first, thus having more points.

Either the

1) Turns for this game option need to be modifiable OR
2) Final Five should be represented in the new BUG interface in game and can be enabled and disabled at will.

I support the latter option as it would be easier to implement; simply give the user the ability tick an option to enable / disable it, in game.

AngelGabriel
May 15, 2010, 01:03 PM
The quoted posting here:

I'm getting a CTD whenever I attempt to host or join a multiplayer game. Only direct IP tested.

Specs:
Win7 Pro x64
q9450
4GB RAM

RoM 2.81 full
AND 1.53
Fresh installs on both tested, as well as reinstall of Civ4 completely.

Game crashes upon MP loading, with errors related to custom leaderheads, starting with wilhelmina, and moving in reverse alphabetical order in the stack.

Note: Single player loads without issue.

AND install was default options (all but sea monsters and deep red interface.)

Any information I neglected to provide?

was made about 3 months ago

and Afforess answered:

"AND 1.53 doesn't work in Multiplayer.

I believe I've corrected the multiplayer issues in my latest beta's, but the official releases are way behind. "

Well: I wanted to host a multiplayer game today and got exactly the same error. We both have a fresh install of RoM 2.91 and AND 1.73E. What can we do about it?

Flay
May 15, 2010, 01:16 PM
The quoted posting here:



was made about 3 months ago

and Afforess answered:

"AND 1.53 doesn't work in Multiplayer.

I believe I've corrected the multiplayer issues in my latest beta's, but the official releases are way behind. "

Well: I wanted to host a multiplayer game today and got exactly the same error. We both have a fresh install of RoM 2.91 and AND 1.73E. What can we do about it?

should not happen.

Did you try to unload the mod and start an MP to see if it's working without ROM ?
Make sure both of your PC are good enough for the map size and number of civ you are planing to play.

AngelGabriel
May 15, 2010, 01:22 PM
It happens ... and we played a normal session of BtS just 3 days ago. We didn't even start a big session. We just wanted to know if it works at all. RoM Terra as map, large size and just about 5 AIs ... we really only wanted to test it as we had quite a few problems with mods and modmods. Wild Mana (Fall from Heaven 2) is almost identical, with the difference that it crashes without any error message ... but it happens at exactly the same point.
And like I said: We played BTS just a few days ago and for about 5 hours ... no problems or crashes at all.

Afforess
May 15, 2010, 02:17 PM
AngelGabriel,

I did find the cause of this error, it seems to be related to files in your CustomAssets loading. Even if you never added anything to CustomAssets, some files seem to be generated there by the game. Go to your "My Games/Beyond The Sword" folder and delete the CustomAssets folder on all computers. Then try Multiplayer Again.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 15, 2010, 03:48 PM
A couple of problems I have encountered with 1.73E - caravels don't get many xp when being attacked by the dread pirates (max I have seen is 0.5). Ships set on auto explore seem to avoid all unexplored areas unless there is a bit of land exposed.

strategyonly
May 15, 2010, 05:35 PM
Ships set on auto explore seem to avoid all unexplored areas unless there is a bit of land exposed.


Yeah this is happening also with the Explorer also, i even moved him to the other side of the map completely and he just took the route back the way he came and just started going around in circles again in the same location he was before i moved him, this happened to all of my explorers.:(

AngelGabriel
May 15, 2010, 06:19 PM
@Afforess

You, sir, are our personal hero of the day. Not only did you fix the RoM problem. The same problem killed our Wildmana session. In other words: Thank you very much :)

Dancing Hoskuld
May 15, 2010, 09:00 PM
I can build buildings I built ages ago.

scribbler
May 15, 2010, 09:14 PM
I can build buildings I built ages ago.

You, sir, are the prince of brevity. Unfortunately, that doesn't really help with finding out why something happened. Did you perhaps have an event that destroyed a bunch of buildings? Have the buildings you can build already gone obsolete? Do you have any mods running?

Slammer64
May 15, 2010, 10:37 PM
I think Dancing Hoskuld is running some other mods scribbler, I noticed on his screenshot "Hadrian's Wall". That doesn't exist in regular AND.

veronavox
May 15, 2010, 10:54 PM
Windows apparently cannot find the "woc_installer.jar", and therefore will not finish AND's installation. How do I fix this?

Afforess
May 15, 2010, 10:56 PM
Windows apparently cannot find the "woc_installer.jar", and therefore will not finish AND's installation. How do I fix this?

Generally, this is a sign of one of two things:

1.) Either you didn't know that AND is not a stand-alone mod. It must be installed overtop of Rise of Mankind 2.91

2.) Or you installed to the wrong place.

veronavox
May 15, 2010, 10:59 PM
Generally, this is a sign of one of two things:

1.) Either you didn't know that AND is not a stand-alone mod. It must be installed overtop of Rise of Mankind 2.91

2.) Or you installed to the wrong place.
It is to be installed directly into the RoM folder, correct? Just into the RoM folder. Not the assets or any of the others?

Thank you sir. I guess it was being installed into the wrong file. (though I'm sure it wasnt...)

Dancing Hoskuld
May 16, 2010, 01:52 AM
You, sir, are the prince of brevity.

Why does everyone say this ;).

Unfortunately, that doesn't really help with finding out why something happened. Did you perhaps have an event that destroyed a bunch of buildings? Have the buildings you can build already gone obsolete? Do you have any mods running?

All my cities lost their granery, fish traps, tax offices, arrow slits and carnivals. I think it happened when I got steam power. The graineries are free with the strategic grain reserve which does not go obsolete and is part of AND (but I provided it to AND). None of the other buildings are modified by the mods I am testing. (AAranda's religions new version and AAranda's wonders no changes from last release.)

I think Dancing Hoskuld is running some other mods scribbler, I noticed on his screenshot "Hadrian's Wall". That doesn't exist in regular AND.

I am testing "my" mods with AND to make sure there are no conflicts. So of course there are non AND mods in there:mischief:.

Justin Cray
May 16, 2010, 09:31 AM
if you check "Hide Replaced Buildings" in the RoM options of the Rev Menu (Ctrl+Alt+O) and you build a city with a Pioneer you wont get all the free buildings (most noticable: the Forge is missing when you have researched Steel)

dunno if this is a AND bug or not

veronavox
May 16, 2010, 12:14 PM
Feeling rather incompotent, I have another problem. It installed decently enough, but when I went to launch AND, the "This program has stopped working" thing popped up... Is it my computer or did I do something wrong? (again) I deleted all of the RoM files and reinstalled both RoM and AND to no avail.

Afforess
May 16, 2010, 12:24 PM
if you check "Hide Replaced Buildings" in the RoM options of the Rev Menu (Ctrl+Alt+O) and you build a city with a Pioneer you wont get all the free buildings (most noticable: the Forge is missing when you have researched Steel)

dunno if this is a AND bug or not

Good catch!

Feeling rather incompotent, I have another problem. It installed decently enough, but when I went to launch AND, the "This program has stopped working" thing popped up... Is it my computer or did I do something wrong? (again) I deleted all of the RoM files and reinstalled both RoM and AND to no avail.

Is Beyond the Sword patched to the latest version? Download the BTS 3.19 patch here at CFC, and install it if not.

veronavox
May 16, 2010, 12:29 PM
Is Beyond the Sword patched to the latest version? Download the BTS 3.19 patch here at CFC, and install it if not.
Last time I checked, it was. I have been able to play RoM for a few months now... I'll repatch just in case though.

It was patched to begin with, so I'm a bit confused. (When I went to patch it, it asked if I wanted to remove it and all of it's components.)

Talin2009
May 16, 2010, 02:17 PM
Some bugs and oddities i found in 1.73D

1) New AI-controlled governor keeps building macemen when i can build rifleman already.
2) AI attacks you when you have 4-7 power rating toward them, not at war with anyone and have big stack on their border, i.e. totally suicidal attack.
3) After said attack AI feels like it's okay to attack 5 musketman stacked on forested hill with crossbowman-mounted infantry mixed stack wasting 35-40 of it's own troops halving its initial stack (btw, AI have fetish for mounted infantry for some reason - building it in insane quantities).
4) AI governor chooses to build colonist in newly conquested cities without slave market/forge etc.

Talin2009
May 16, 2010, 03:48 PM
dbl post

scribbler
May 16, 2010, 05:20 PM
Last time I checked, it was. I have been able to play RoM for a few months now... I'll repatch just in case though.

It was patched to begin with, so I'm a bit confused. (When I went to patch it, it asked if I wanted to remove it and all of it's components.)

Have you updated RoM to 2.91?

AndarielHalo
May 16, 2010, 09:57 PM
The AI is really hitting the damn pits in terms of sheer stupidity.

I do not have any Ruthless AI or anything enabled, and yet EVERY SINGLE CIVILIZATION in the game has gone to war with me at least once for no reason. There is a civilization in the game that is Friendly with me, extremely close ties, mutual military struggle, same religion, everything.

Next turn, they're EASILY bribed to go to war with me.


That's the second time something like that has happened in the game, and maybe the sixth or seventh time a neutral or friendly civilization was bribed to go to war with me.

szemek77
May 17, 2010, 03:40 AM
I can build buildings I built ages ago.

345 AD, industrial era?
77 turns of Golden Age?

What is it? :crazyeye:

I do not have any Ruthless AI or anything enabled, and yet EVERY SINGLE CIVILIZATION in the game has gone to war with me at least once for no reason. There is a civilization in the game that is Friendly with me, extremely close ties, mutual military struggle, same religion, everything.

Next turn, they're EASILY bribed to go to war with me.

You know, this is a hard and tricky subject, cause it is hard to define what "no reason", "neutral", "friendly" exactly mean.

I think there is a problem with AI going into war for a cheap price of a tech, or two. I suggest there should be a certain level of positive relations ratio (+8? +10?) where bribing for war against us (and no other CIV) would be simply impossible. In case of lower ratio, the price should be certainly higher. Other way, there is no sense of relations building.

Interesting that this problem concerns mainly the bribing - friendly AIs don't go for war with us without the encouragement of third side. That comes at least from my experience.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 17, 2010, 04:04 AM
345 AD, industrial era?
77 turns of Golden Age?

What is it? :crazyeye:

It was a snail speed test game with two golden ages stacked. The test part was just advance start on noble, huge world. I play builder style game. I was testing the new AAranda's religions which fixes the druid and animalist religions plus some stuff like sound and graphics. Both these religions give food boosts which are very useful in the early game. However the AI did not know how to use them as they were originally written. I have tried to keep the flavour and get the AI to use them.

There is a big problem with science balance especially if you can convert to the Egyptian mythos and build the wonder that gives a free school of scribes in all cities. Once you have it you can build Plato's Academy and the other Egyptian mythos wonder giving huge science bonuses. You then switch to a more militaristic religion. AAranda's religions are all about changing your religion to fit with your current aims.

Looks, like I will need to balance that religion now. :)

SR-71
May 17, 2010, 04:38 AM
Hi! Is there any way to to get working the Static Leaderheads module??:confused:

I have constant MAF with the damned CTD in my game mainly when loading leaderheads for diplomacy, and it's suggested in RoM readme that in that case implementing this module could avoid this. But the Static module included doesn't work, get CTD before starting, so... Can I add all the leaderheads that are not included and then it will work? Or simply never will work, it's outdated? Thanks.

Arkatakor
May 17, 2010, 06:08 AM
Any chance of giving the user the option to disband a city upon it being given to you due to culture flipping? Vanilla BTS gave the player the option to either accept or disband the city. Its pity its been removed in ROM... Now I have to go into worldbuilder to delete the city which causes my game to CTD half the time due to memory issues :(

scribbler
May 17, 2010, 06:48 AM
Hi! Is there any way to to get working the Static Leaderheads module??:confused:

I have constant MAF with the damned CTD in my game mainly when loading leaderheads for diplomacy, and it's suggested in RoM readme that in that case implementing this module could avoid this. But the Static module included doesn't work, get CTD before starting, so... Can I add all the leaderheads that are not included and then it will work? Or simply never will work, it's outdated? Thanks.

Are you starting a new game or loading a savegame? Or is the CTD before Civ IV even loads (not the savegame)?

If you're trying to just switch to static leaderheads in the same save, you could be hitting a module loading issue. If it's for a new game, though, then it's definitely a bug.

Azazell
May 17, 2010, 08:00 AM
Afforess --> How can I decrease units on the single square (Seven Axeman is to much) :(

SR-71
May 17, 2010, 10:18 AM
Are you starting a new game or loading a savegame? Or is the CTD before Civ IV even loads (not the savegame)?

If you're trying to just switch to static leaderheads in the same save, you could be hitting a module loading issue. If it's for a new game, though, then it's definitely a bug.

Oops, it's trying a savegame! So must I be afraid that the static module cannot be implemented in a previous savegame? :blush:

I didn't try it in a new game, I would try to run it so not to loose all my marathon savegame, starting again would be a heavy lot of time... :sad:

So the questions would be: could be enabled in mid-game? and anyway, how to do it for all the leaderheads?

NBAfan
May 17, 2010, 10:54 AM
Any chance of giving the user the option to disband a city upon it being given to you due to culture flipping? Vanilla BTS gave the player the option to either accept or disband the city. Its pity its been removed in ROM... Now I have to go into worldbuilder to delete the city which causes my game to CTD half the time due to memory issues :(Press Alt-A.

scribbler
May 17, 2010, 11:06 AM
Oops, it's trying a savegame! So must I be afraid that the static module cannot be implemented in a previous savegame? :blush:

I didn't try it in a new game, I would try to run it so not to loose all my marathon savegame, starting again would be a heavy lot of time... :sad:

So the questions would be: could be enabled in mid-game? and anyway, how to do it for all the leaderheads?

Yeah, adding most (if not all) modules changes too many resources, I think. If you don't want to lose your game, you can find your saves in (My )Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Saves/. There you can backup the entire directory, just the sub-directories, or just the specific files you want to keep.

Then you can start a new game and see if the game still CTDs on you. That way at least you can test if static leaderheads really does fix things for you without losing your old games.

os79
May 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
In my experience, if you move either Static LHs or NoBuildingGraphics modules to Modules, you WILL, without a doubt, break a savegame. Technical explanation: it adds new xml or something like that. Afforess can explain it better but you may get the idea. So any time you add in new xml file, in general, you will lose the savegame. There are exceptions to the rule, though, but I'm not experienced enough to tell you these :).

giffy
May 17, 2010, 11:31 AM
Would it be possible to move "establish embassy" up to the top of the diplomacy window? Its a bit of a pain to scroll down to it every time especially when playing with aggressive or ruthless AI on.

It also seems that the threshold for the AI to agree is a bit high. In my current game only a few civs will have an embassy with me. It makes me feel a bit like North Korea. ;)

AndarielHalo
May 17, 2010, 12:10 PM
You know, this is a hard and tricky subject, cause it is hard to define what "no reason", "neutral", "friendly" exactly mean.

I think there is a problem with AI going into war for a cheap price of a tech, or two. I suggest there should be a certain level of positive relations ratio (+8? +10?) where bribing for war against us (and no other CIV) would be simply impossible. In case of lower ratio, the price should be certainly higher. Other way, there is no sense of relations building.

Interesting that this problem concerns mainly the bribing - friendly AIs don't go for war with us without the encouragement of third side. That comes at least from my experience.




This is relevant to my game and interests.


When I say "Total War"-like AI, I really mean it, as a fanatic Total War game player. The major difference, though, is that the game never tells you when another faction bribes a neutral faction to go to war with you---though you know it's possible because you can actually do that with others.


But the AI in almost all the Total War games (except Empire, which is far more pliable with diplomacy) makes diplomacy pretty much completely useless. About the only thing that can be assured is that neutral factions will agree to trade relations with you.

Everything else is pretty much window dressing---you won't get an alliance out of anyone without some heavy-duty sacrifices on your end, and even then it won't mean jackshit 10 turns later when they decide you have 50 cities, they have 14, you have 7 full-stack armies, they have 2 and a half, and they decide to besiege your capital in London or Rome because declaring war doesn't auto-move hostile forces out of your lands, while your armies are off in Scythia or Morocco, 5 years away.



It's the same situation now in AND1.73 since I don't know when, maybe since 1.71 or so. Diplomacy is pretty much pointless. I know I can almost always get an Embassy and Open Borders established, but beyond that, they're just as likely to go to war with me and suddenly have 2 full-stacked armies on my borders after 1000 years of peace and mutual religious, military, and trade relations as they are to surrender themselves to me as a vassal state.

It's not worth it anymore. Flexible difficulty set me to Immortal difficulty a long-ass time ago and has never returned to lower it.

So I've just gone into World Builder to give myself huge armies just so I can survive without losing half my colonies because 12 of the world's 20 civilizations are at war with me because I took Mansa Munsa as a vassal while he was at war with Bulgaria, who then bribes BUTT:):):):) EVERYONE to go to war with me and the only people NOT at war with me are barely city-states themselves, or have peace treaties with me because I just finished ending a brief war with them a few turns ago.

JanusTalaiini
May 17, 2010, 12:38 PM
I second that. Please revert to the old city naming scheme while using personalized maps.

Making it an option would be great. Personally, I love the new naming scheme - makes each game world feel much more original to me. Now, if only we could rename the AI civs... :D

Also, I can confirm the issue with the "autoexplore" function not working. It just causes the unit to go to a certain part of the map, and then go around in circles indefinitely.

os79
May 17, 2010, 01:15 PM
Report on 1.73F:

#1 You forgot to remove "No Military Unit Trading" in RoMSettings

#2 The unchecking of box for "Can Trade War" in Diplomacy tab doesn't work. The AI still demands that I go to war with another civ.

#3 You have one weird txt errors for Builds in RoMSettings tab.

Afforess
May 17, 2010, 01:56 PM
The AI is really hitting the damn pits in terms of sheer stupidity.

I do not have any Ruthless AI or anything enabled, and yet EVERY SINGLE CIVILIZATION in the game has gone to war with me at least once for no reason. There is a civilization in the game that is Friendly with me, extremely close ties, mutual military struggle, same religion, everything.

Next turn, they're EASILY bribed to go to war with me.


That's the second time something like that has happened in the game, and maybe the sixth or seventh time a neutral or friendly civilization was bribed to go to war with me.

I just checked, and it looks like I forgot to check to see if the AI were willing to be bribed before going to war. I'll fix that in Patch G.

Would it be possible to move "establish embassy" up to the top of the diplomacy window? Its a bit of a pain to scroll down to it every time especially when playing with aggressive or ruthless AI on.


Sure.

Making it an option would be great. Personally, I love the new naming scheme - makes each game world feel much more original to me. Now, if only we could rename the AI civs... :D

It is an option.

Also, I can confirm the issue with the "autoexplore" function not working. It just causes the unit to go to a certain part of the map, and then go around in circles indefinitely.

Can not confirm, explorers work fine automated for me. Anyone have a save they would like to share?

Report on 1.73F:

#1 You forgot to remove "No Military Unit Trading" in RoMSettings

#2 The unchecking of box for "Can Trade War" in Diplomacy tab doesn't work. The AI still demands that I go to war with another civ.

#3 You have one weird txt errors for Builds in RoMSettings tab.
Okay, I see everything other than 1...

os79
May 17, 2010, 02:39 PM
Uh, no I didn't. None of those bugs are in patch F. What did you install?

Just that, patch F over my old RoM 2.91/AND 1.73E.

But please do check the bug about AI still demanding that I declare war even if I turned it off. Or are you telling me that it actually works for you? If it is working, then I will have to do clean install of 1.73 over RoM 2.91. Before you ask, I restored these two unit files in Advanced Diplomacy because of these new two options in Diplomacy tab :). So it can't be because I deleted them because they are both present there. Only thing I deleted is Warlord module, that's it.

strategyonly
May 17, 2010, 04:09 PM
To check on the Explorer start a map and go all the way to the other side of the map, i bet you the explorer will follow the exact route back just the way he came, cause man it is just a pain to take your explorer one square or two at a time and take him all over the map manually.

os79
May 17, 2010, 04:16 PM
Patch G Report:

#1 Txt error still is present in Hide Obsolete Build and City Named after Landmark area in RoMsettings tab.

#2 Unchecking "Can Trade War" still has AIs demanding me to declare wars.

This time I had RoM 2.91/AND 1.73 with no patches in between before installing Patch G.

Swebear
May 17, 2010, 04:48 PM
Patch G,

There seems to be a text key missing for "Hide obsolete worker actions", screen attached.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 17, 2010, 04:55 PM
Patch G,

There seems to be a text key missing for "Hide obsolete worker actions", screen attached.

@Afforess, if you actually have the game text in the file then you are experiancing the same bug I reported earlier. Where the game text was in my mod but not showing up in the game. Moving the mod in the MLF fixed the problem as did tidying up some of the XML in a different mod. I am worried that we may be reaching some sort of weird limit in the program(s) that merge the XML for the game.

Afforess
May 17, 2010, 05:16 PM
Patch G Report:

#1 Txt error still is present in Hide Obsolete Build and City Named after Landmark area in RoMsettings tab.

#2 Unchecking "Can Trade War" still has AIs demanding me to declare wars.

This time I had RoM 2.91/AND 1.73 with no patches in between before installing Patch G.

I've re-uploaded Patch G. Both your problems should be addressed in it.

@Afforess, if you actually have the game text in the file then you are experiancing the same bug I reported earlier. Where the game text was in my mod but not showing up in the game. Moving the mod in the MLF fixed the problem as did tidying up some of the XML in a different mod. I am worried that we may be reaching some sort of weird limit in the program(s) that merge the XML for the game.

It has nothing to do with that. I just made a typo. ;)

Dancing Hoskuld
May 17, 2010, 05:30 PM
I've re-uploaded Patch G. Both your problems should be addressed in it.



It has nothing to do with that. I just made a typo. ;)

Rats(1) and Rats(2)!

1. I just installed G and created backup before I start adding my preferred mods (mine, part of ROME and VIP) so I could actually play a proper game not a test game. Now I need to download it again.

2. Sometimes my text is there and sometimes it is not. Interestingly enough it is always the same mod StrategyOnly's Slaves mod (I really wish we could finish it but we are waiting on the BUG onCivicChange event to be released (and documented). I have had others look at the XML code for the mod but they can't see anything wrong in it either :(

Edit: is that my conversion of Laura Croft to RoM I see in G? :)

os79
May 17, 2010, 07:17 PM
Revised Patch G Report:

#1 Unchecking "Trade War" finally works :). :goodjob:

#2 The next two reports are not really bugs but weird changes from old versions... Firstly, AIs are continually closing their borders, then requesting Open Borders.

#3 There is now a nonexistent request for me and whoever else is at war with me to make peace now.

Like I said, not bugs but unusual changes from older versions.