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Spobe
Jan 27, 2011, 03:50 PM
I notice the same sort of problem with the Food Processing Plant overtaking Bakery

Yeah, it's exactly what I described in my previous post.

BobTheBull
Jan 27, 2011, 06:25 PM
AndarielHalo is incorrect about the effects of grocer and supermarket. Grocer gives at most 7 extra commerce (added to base commerce) from resources, +1 happiness and +1 unhealthy (for tobacco) and +25% gold, calculated after base commerce is added up.

Supermarket gives +1 food, +4 health from resources and -2 unhealthy from tobacco, for a net of +2 health, and +3 happy from coffee, tea and tobacco.

The net difference is +1 food, +1 health, +2 happy, -7 base commerce and -25% gold. The net loss in gold will be (BC-7*.25), so the larger base commerce is the lower the overall percentage will be, while with a very low BC the percentage loss will be high. There is also a loss of research, culture and espionage due to the -7 loss of base culture, although not nearly as much as gold loss.

For example, if you have 100 BC with 35% tax rate, 45% research and 20% culture the result would be:

(100*.35)*1.25 = 43.75 gold with grocer.
(100-7)*.35 = 32.55 gold with supermarket, a loss of 25.6%.

(100*.45) = 45 research with grocer.
(100-7)*.45 = 41.85 research with supermarket, a loss of 7%.

Note these are simplified calculations; actual in game calculations are much more complex. In an in game test I found actual changes of -26.8% gold, -18% research, -9.5% culture and -11% espionage. Some of this was due to changes in base contributions from specialists after constructing the supermarket. It was getting too complicated so I have not pursued the minute differences in calculation between turns other than SM, which do seem to hold up.

Note also that the actual change numbers you get while hovering over supermarket are all off, with no discernible pattern I could see. They do not correspond to actual changes in base or total results in any category.

That's how it works in general. As to why I don't know. By building supermarket you pick up food, health and happiness, which at the stage in the game it becomes available are quite useful. You could say you have the option to trade off the financial benefits for other needed benefits. At that point there are other buildings which can replace the lost benefits. Since this is supposed to be an upgrade of the grocery it does seem questionable. You can restore the bonus resources and icommerce bonus to the supermarket if you think that is more appropriate.

AndarielHalo
Jan 27, 2011, 06:30 PM
AndarielHalo is incorrect about the effects of grocer and supermarket. Grocer gives at most 7 extra commerce (added to base commerce) from resources, +1 happiness and +1 unhealthy (for tobacco) and +25%, calculated after base commerce is added up.

Supermarket gives +1 food, +4 health from resources and -2 unhealthy from tobacco, for a net of +2 health, and +3 happy from coffee, tea and tobacco.

The net difference is +1 food, +1 health, +2 happy, -7 base commerce and -25% gold. The net loss in gold will be (BC-7*.25), so the larger base commerce is the lower the overall percentage will be, while with a very low BC the percentage loss will be high. There is also a loss of research, culture and espionage due to the -7 loss of base culture, although not nearly as much as gold loss.

For example, if you have 100 BC with 35% tax rate, 45% research and 20% culture the result would be:

(100*.35)*1.25 = 43.75 gold with grocer.
(100-7)*.35 = 32.55 gold with supermarket, a loss of 25.6%.

(100*.45) = 45 research with grocer.
(100-7)*.45 = 41.85 research with supermarket, a loss of 7%.

Note these are simplified calculations; actual in game calculations are much more complex. In an in game test I found actual changes of -26.8% gold, -18% research, -9.5% culture and -11% espionage. Some of this was due to changes in base contributions from specialists after constructing the supermarket. It was getting too complicated so I have not pursued the differences between turns other than SM.

Note also that the actual change numbers you get while hovering over supermarket are all off, with no discernible pattern I could see. They do not correspond to actual changes in base or total results in any category.

That's how it works in general. As to why I don't know. by building supermarket you pick up food, health and happiness, which at the stage in the game it becomes available are quite useful. You could say you have the option to trade off the financial benefits for other needed benefits. At that point there are other buildings which can replace the lost benefits. Since this is supposed to be an upgrade of the grocery it does seem questionable. You can restore the bonus resources and icommerce bonus to the supermarket if you wish.




Too much math, can't read, though you said I'm incorrect. Thus, them's fightin words. :trouble:


But another real problem I'm having unrelated is, late in the game, the game is crashing if I scroll around the map too much, or if I click on the minimap ONCE. It also freezes if I try to zoom out to get a global view.

Spobe
Jan 27, 2011, 09:48 PM
AndarielHalo is incorrect about the effects of grocer and supermarket. Grocer gives at most 7 extra commerce (added to base commerce) from resources, +1 happiness and +1 unhealthy (for tobacco) and +25% gold, calculated after base commerce is added up.

Supermarket gives +1 food, +4 health from resources and -2 unhealthy from tobacco, for a net of +2 health, and +3 happy from coffee, tea and tobacco.

The net difference is +1 food, +1 health, +2 happy, -7 base commerce and -25% gold. The net loss in gold will be (BC-7*.25), so the larger base commerce is the lower the overall percentage will be, while with a very low BC the percentage loss will be high. There is also a loss of research, culture and espionage due to the -7 loss of base culture, although not nearly as much as gold loss.

For example, if you have 100 BC with 35% tax rate, 45% research and 20% culture the result would be:

(100*.35)*1.25 = 43.75 gold with grocer.
(100-7)*.35 = 32.55 gold with supermarket, a loss of 25.6%.

(100*.45) = 45 research with grocer.
(100-7)*.45 = 41.85 research with supermarket, a loss of 7%.

Note these are simplified calculations; actual in game calculations are much more complex. In an in game test I found actual changes of -26.8% gold, -18% research, -9.5% culture and -11% espionage. Some of this was due to changes in base contributions from specialists after constructing the supermarket. It was getting too complicated so I have not pursued the minute differences in calculation between turns other than SM, which do seem to hold up.

Note also that the actual change numbers you get while hovering over supermarket are all off, with no discernible pattern I could see. They do not correspond to actual changes in base or total results in any category.

That's how it works in general. As to why I don't know. By building supermarket you pick up food, health and happiness, which at the stage in the game it becomes available are quite useful. You could say you have the option to trade off the financial benefits for other needed benefits. At that point there are other buildings which can replace the lost benefits. Since this is supposed to be an upgrade of the grocery it does seem questionable. You can restore the bonus resources and icommerce bonus to the supermarket if you think that is more appropriate.


...Which is remedied by what I prescribed a couple of posts back.

BobTheBull
Jan 28, 2011, 06:37 AM
What you said, AndarielHalo, was that supermarket caused -50 resource, -100 culture and -30 gold. I am pointing out the actual losses are much less, although you do lose in each category. The -30 for gold is the closest. And no, this does not make any sense.

If the math is too much for you, just take my word that you will lose 25-30% gold, 15-20% research and ~10% culture and espionage with typical settings for overall rates for each of those in a game. I did that because this topic has come up several times without any specific numbers. I noticed that the mouse over popup was reporting actual figures would be much less and wanted to find out exactly how it worked. I did and reported it; I also found out the popup is not very close to actuality, which makes me wonder if other popups are also wrong. Is this a true bug?

BobTheBull
Jan 28, 2011, 07:06 AM
Went back and reread what spobe said, especially about some upgrade paths not being fully developed and that makes sense. To fix the grocer upgrade:

Copy the <CommerceModifiers> section and paste it into the supermarket block and copy the entire <BonusYieldChanges> block into the supermarket block. Grocer also gives 2 merchant specialists (that's what made the specialist contribution go down), so copy <SpecialistsCount> block as well. Now you have a supermarked with the +1 food, +3 health, +2 happiness without reducing any of the other benefits. Previously I said +1 health, but SM gives a net +2 health, +4 from resources -2 from tobacco; Grocer gives -1 health from tobacco, so the net difference is +3. These gains did hold up in in game testing.

The only other difference is flavor; grocer flavor is gold, while SM flavor is growth. Never understood what flavor does nor found any explanation other than the AI uses it to determine what to build, so I would not mess with that without knowing more.

Of course, you then need to do the same with modified SM and Hypermarket. Maybe if I get some time this weekend I will look at the upgrade paths specifically mentioned and "fix" them and post the modified xml file here. If anyone knows other upgrade paths needing fixing please post it here.

os79
Jan 28, 2011, 08:02 AM
Easier for you just to look at Building Upgrades page in Civilopedia. If you are using RAND 1.75 and later, then you should be fine with posting your ideas.

AndarielHalo
Jan 28, 2011, 08:16 AM
What you said, AndarielHalo, was that supermarket caused -50 resource, -100 culture and -30 gold. I am pointing out the actual losses are much less, although you do lose in each category. The -30 for gold is the closest. And no, this does not make any sense.

If the math is too much for you, just take my word that you will lose 25-30% gold, 15-20% research and ~10% culture and espionage with typical settings for overall rates for each of those in a game. I did that because this topic has come up several times without any specific numbers. I noticed that the mouse over popup was reporting actual figures would be much less and wanted to find out exactly how it worked. I did and reported it; I also found out the popup is not very close to actuality, which makes me wonder if other popups are also wrong. Is this a true bug?



:wallbash: That just creates a worse problem of mis-reporting things! Earlier in the game, there were tons of buildings that reported giving -:gold: despite decreasing maintenance. I completely ignored the Village Halls/their respective upgrades which had wild-ass accusations from -:gold: to -:commerce: -:hammers: -:science: and ended up being either total lies or their own random-ass distribution of citizens.



I've found that Fascist is the greatest government type to use, because it offers NO war weariness, and Checkpoints, which bump some commerce and give yet more experience to new infantry units. Federal is totally useless given its +100 War weariness, and Democracy was tempting for all of two turns, when all the district offices promised NEGATIVE Maintenance, and ended up reporting that they would cause -:gold:



And even if the reported losses for a Supermarket are much less than reported, THEY ARE STILL LESS. This is not logical by any stretch of the imagination; go to a local grocery store, then go to a big-ass supermarket. How the hell does the grocery store offer MORE than the supermarket in terms of commodities? Leaving aside the fact that the Grocer shouldn't even be REPLACED by the Supermarket, but supplemented, the idea that a goddamn GROCER is somehow superior to a MODERN SUPERMARKET is mind-bogglingly stupid. Like a Springfield 1855 being considered superior to an M1 Garand

generalstaff
Jan 28, 2011, 10:55 AM
And even if the reported losses for a Supermarket are much less than reported, THEY ARE STILL LESS. This is not logical by any stretch of the imagination; go to a local grocery store, then go to a big-ass supermarket. How the hell does the grocery store offer MORE than the supermarket in terms of commodities? Leaving aside the fact that the Grocer shouldn't even be REPLACED by the Supermarket, but supplemented, the idea that a goddamn GROCER is somehow superior to a MODERN SUPERMARKET is mind-bogglingly stupid. Like a Springfield 1855 being considered superior to an M1 Garand

That was something that I didn't get either, and which pained me when adding UBs which replace Grocer and Supermarket. It is the second most thing which bothered me (the most being the fact that Early Buildings and Civics Buildings aren't easy for me the mod to my liking, but that has to do with the modder side of me).

It shouldn't be Hypermarket replaces Supermarket replaces Grocer.
It should be Hypermarket requires Supermarket requires Grocer; no replacement.

If the problem is balance, then raise the beaker costs of techs 10-20%, as well as unit upgrade costs. Since the Grocer adds extra gold and commerce, that should be the the best fix for it. The extra health from the Supermarket shouldn't matter much by the time the Hypermarket is available due to the nature of the Future era.

AndarielHalo
Jan 28, 2011, 02:29 PM
I have two questions unrelated to my prior complaining:


1) Is there a way to make it easier for vassal states to break away from their overlords? I hate having to disable vassal states because a vassal will remain fanatically loyal to their conqueror even after being completely exploited and forced to pay obscene tribute on a regular basis.


2) Nuclear fallout is WAY too frequent in occurring. In this game, I have used maybe 10 nuclear weapons in total; three atomic bombs and a bunch more ICBMs, and now, even after 30 years and close to 200 or 300 turns, I'm getting radioactive dust destroying plot improvements EVERY SINGLE TURN.

BobTheBull
Jan 28, 2011, 04:54 PM
I gotta agree with generalstaff. After studying the upgrade tree, grocer, SM and HM should require the previous building but not replace it. You might also want to give the latter two a 5-10% commerce bonus which will apply on top of the 25% for grocer, but leave everything else as is. Make sense to me, and I garantee ya we have all three in New Orleans.

The grocer seems to be the most egregious case for upgrades, as losing >25% gold, plus significant losses of research, culture and espionage is crazy. The latter three have nothing to do with grocers and supermarkets. Overall, if you upgrade all your cities to SM's you take a significant economic hit for the entire empire. I'm no economist, but that's just wrong.

Food processing plant is just behind grocer. Again, they should exist side by side. Food processing plants are completely different operations from bakeries, and we have both here as well.

Don't see what connection there is between artesian wells and canneries. They should just be separated. The rest of the building upgrades seem pretty OK to me.

@AndarielHalo

1) There is a section for strategies in the Sevopedia, close to the bottom of the list. In this there is an explanation of Vassal mechanics. It explains the conditions under which the vassal can break the relation, but states that currently there is no way for the master to break it, so be careful in acquiring them. Still, you might find something you can do to get the vassal to break off.

2) Haven't gotten that far so don't know much about fallout in RAND. But, I'm a little confused; you say 30 years and close to 200-300 turns. That many turns would be a lot more than 30 years. But, if you did use that many nukes, and that's a lot, you certainly would expect a lot of radiation fallout for many years; the half life of uranium is 250,000 years. In previous civ's workers could clean up fallout. I believe this is still available.

AndarielHalo
Jan 28, 2011, 05:34 PM
@AndarielHalo

1) There is a section for strategies in the Sevopedia, close to the bottom of the list. In this there is an explanation of Vassal mechanics. It explains the conditions under which the vassal can break the relation, but states that currently there is no way for the master to break it, so be careful in acquiring them. Still, you might find something you can do to get the vassal to break off.

2) Haven't gotten that far so don't know much about fallout in RAND. But, I'm a little confused; you say 30 years and close to 200-300 turns. That many turns would be a lot more than 30 years. But, if you did use that many nukes, and that's a lot, you certainly would expect a lot of radiation fallout for many years; the half life of uranium is 250,000 years. In previous civ's workers could clean up fallout. I believe this is still available.



This suggestion of "be careful in acquiring them" does not apply to EVERY SINGLE AI IN THE GAME EVER who chooses to acquire them no matter what, to the point where by the 1500s, the game has devolved to Me, a few nothings, and one superpower with over 9000 vassal states that NEVER break away.


For the second, I altered the years-per-turn to be less wildly retarded and I exaggerated---it's closer to 100-200 turns. And that many nukes honestly can't be that much that fallout starts appearing EVERY TURN, EVERYWHERE. And not ONCE every turn, but MULTIPLE TIMES every turn. I have to double my workforce just to clear fallout that appears nowhere near where nuclear weapons were used. I recognize that nuclear fallout can spread thousands of miles, but I'm pretty sure we didn't have nuclear fallout in Brazil, Finland, South Africa, and New Zealand when nuclear weapons were used in World War II

Spobe
Jan 28, 2011, 09:15 PM
Easier for you just to look at Building Upgrades page in Civilopedia. If you are using RAND 1.75 and later, then you should be fine with posting your ideas.


I... Said several posts ago that it's easily spotted by viewing the Building Upgrades page in the Civilopedia.

Poor Spobe. Nobody seems to listen to him.

Spobe
Jan 28, 2011, 09:17 PM
Went back and reread what spobe said, especially about some upgrade paths not being fully developed and that makes sense.


At least somebody finally did.

Like you showed in your post, it's pretty easy to fix, especially when you can see exactly what's wrong in the Building Upgrades page.

Spobe
Jan 28, 2011, 09:21 PM
That was something that I didn't get either, and which pained me when adding UBs which replace Grocer and Supermarket. It is the second most thing which bothered me (the most being the fact that Early Buildings and Civics Buildings aren't easy for me the mod to my liking, but that has to do with the modder side of me).

It shouldn't be Hypermarket replaces Supermarket replaces Grocer.
It should be Hypermarket requires Supermarket requires Grocer; no replacement.

If the problem is balance, then raise the beaker costs of techs 10-20%, as well as unit upgrade costs. Since the Grocer adds extra gold and commerce, that should be the the best fix for it. The extra health from the Supermarket shouldn't matter much by the time the Hypermarket is available due to the nature of the Future era.


Yes, but we can get the same results without having a bunch of needless extra building clutter by simply keeping the same bonus commerce values (and adding a few more for the Hypermarket, such as movies, alcohol, etc.) and boosting them so that it's not necessary to have said clutter of buildings. For instance, the Grocer gives +1 commerce to various bonus resources. The Supermarket, then, should give +2 to the same ones as well as the additional meats that have been added to the lineup (not just for health anymore!), and the Hypermarket should give +3. And keep in mind that the Hypermarket should keep the health bonuses provided by the Supermarket, since it would obviously still sell those products.

Effective. Efficient. Solved.

generalstaff
Jan 29, 2011, 03:28 PM
Yes, but we can get the same results without having a bunch of needless extra building clutter by simply keeping the same bonus commerce values (and adding a few more for the Hypermarket, such as movies, alcohol, etc.) and boosting them so that it's not necessary to have said clutter of buildings. For instance, the Grocer gives +1 commerce to various bonus resources. The Supermarket, then, should give +2 to the same ones as well as the additional meats that have been added to the lineup (not just for health anymore!), and the Hypermarket should give +3. And keep in mind that the Hypermarket should keep the health bonuses provided by the Supermarket, since it would obviously still sell those products.

Effective. Efficient. Solved.

I see what you did there.

Having the Grocer -> Supermarket -> Hypermarket path being the same as the Harbor ->...International Port path. Having each upgrade keep the bonuses of the building before it is another good solution. The only issue with that is the same issue that came up with the Harbor upgrade path, it makes some civ's UBs comparatively weak since their UB bonus would be upgraded out. Personally, that is a minor issue which does not bother me, but it has been brought up before with no good solutions found.

AndarielHalo
Jan 29, 2011, 03:55 PM
How do you cut down on the frequency of radioactive dust/fallout occurring? Because it's getting extremely excessive now, even though nuclear weapons haven't been used in decades. Every turn, between 5 and 10 regions around the entire world become affected by fallout.

Spobe
Jan 29, 2011, 08:50 PM
I see what you did there.

Having the Grocer -> Supermarket -> Hypermarket path being the same as the Harbor ->...International Port path. Having each upgrade keep the bonuses of the building before it is another good solution. The only issue with that is the same issue that came up with the Harbor upgrade path, it makes some civ's UBs comparatively weak since their UB bonus would be upgraded out. Personally, that is a minor issue which does not bother me, but it has been brought up before with no good solutions found.

It's really too minor to worry about, since so many civs have had their UUs steamrolled by new units in RoM:AND. The Heavy Tank/IS2 totally kills the Panzer, and it comes literally a few turns after. There are more, but that one is particularly glaring.

Flay
Jan 30, 2011, 03:16 AM
any news about the new devDCM and AND?

JosEPh_II
Jan 30, 2011, 04:38 PM
Thanks for that. Now, how do I disenable Mastery?

At game set up screen for a New game. Can't be done once you've started already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by generalstaff View Post
That was something that I didn't get either, and which pained me when adding UBs which replace Grocer and Supermarket. It is the second most thing which bothered me (the most being the fact that Early Buildings and Civics Buildings aren't easy for me the mod to my liking, but that has to do with the modder side of me).

It shouldn't be Hypermarket replaces Supermarket replaces Grocer.
It should be Hypermarket requires Supermarket requires Grocer; no replacement.

If the problem is balance, then raise the beaker costs of techs 10-20%, as well as unit upgrade costs. Since the Grocer adds extra gold and commerce, that should be the the best fix for it. The extra health from the Supermarket shouldn't matter much by the time the Hypermarket is available due to the nature of the Future era.

Yes, but we can get the same results without having a bunch of needless extra building clutter by simply keeping the same bonus commerce values (and adding a few more for the Hypermarket, such as movies, alcohol, etc.) and boosting them so that it's not necessary to have said clutter of buildings. For instance, the Grocer gives +1 commerce to various bonus resources. The Supermarket, then, should give +2 to the same ones as well as the additional meats that have been added to the lineup (not just for health anymore!), and the Hypermarket should give +3. And keep in mind that the Hypermarket should keep the health bonuses provided by the Supermarket, since it would obviously still sell those products.

Effective. Efficient. Solved.

And here you have the exact example of why I didn't like killtech's method for upgrades. This is his handy work in full bloom. He preferred % over +/-. He convinced Afforess to use it and now others are seeing it (the problem) too. But both killtech and afforess have moved on. And I got blamed as a troublemaker for my protests. Which is why I stopped testing AND.

JosEPh

Afforess
Jan 30, 2011, 09:33 PM
And I got blamed as a troublemaker for my protests.

I remember differently -

You were the voice of reason, and in AND 1.75 I abandoned the building upgrade chains and reverted almost everything back to RoM 2.71. (RoM 2.71 was pretty much the golden age of RoM, IMHO).

JosEPh_II
Feb 01, 2011, 04:46 PM
I remember differently -

You were the voice of reason, and in AND 1.75 I abandoned the building upgrade chains and reverted almost everything back to RoM 2.71. (RoM 2.71 was pretty much the golden age of RoM, IMHO).

You just made an old man cry. (with joy)

For along time I felt very ostracized and wondered if our forum comradarie had been irrevocably damaged. Thank you for the reassurance.

Humbly yours,
JosEPh :)

Afforess
Feb 01, 2011, 07:16 PM
For along time I felt very ostracized and wondered if our forum comradarie had been irrevocably damaged. Thank you for the reassurance.


There's no way I'd let something like a difference of opinion ruin forum comradarie. ;)

Anyway, I think we agree more than we disagree on. But disagreement is still good, it makes you think critically about your own opinion.

AndarielHalo
Feb 03, 2011, 02:31 PM
Late in the game, about 60% in to a Snail mode game, 1800/3000 turns in, for the past hundred turns, the game has been crashing with great frequency, almost always if/when I scroll along the map too much, or click on the minimap too often. Then about the point I mentioned above, I start having the game crash when I capture certain cities. I even used a Fusion nuke on the city, only to have ALL the land around it AND the land under it be blown away, while the city remains intact, on the water. I go into World Builder mode, and I have to click on it many times in order to erase it.


I can't wait 100 turns for the spaceship to arrive somewhere to complete the game; I disabled Religious, Scientific, and Cultural victory from the game, but now, after I've deleted all my opponents except my Permanent Ally, the game hasn't ended.

What needs to happen for it to end with a victory? Why is it crashing so much late in the game?

BobTheBull
Feb 03, 2011, 05:24 PM
Actually, you can disable mastery victory in game by modifying VictoryInfo settings. I can't remember exactly what I changed but you should be able to figure it out by studying the settings. Be sure to save the original file first.

Now, I should be able to build sea tunnels; I have all the prerequisites but cannot get my modern workboat to build one. When I move it to a coast square between continents there is no tunnel button and the hotkey doesn't work either. What am I missing?

AndarielHalo
Feb 03, 2011, 05:25 PM
What settings, where? And shouldn't I be wanting to ENABLE mastery victory? Or something?



ALso, unrelated question: What's the difference between Clear Fallout and Scrub Fallout? The game suggests Clear over Scrub, and Clear is faster, but I notice no difference.

Kwami
Feb 04, 2011, 04:11 PM
The Mastery victory condition is enabled by default and enabling it disables all other victory conditions. You can turn it off in the victory condition options when you create a Custom Game. I don't know how to turn it off once the game has started or if that's even possible.

BobTheBull
Feb 04, 2011, 08:42 PM
I mispoke, kwami. What I did was to turn disable the Domination victory, as well as all others except Time (or highest end score) and Conquest. This is not my fault, as i AM and old man (Civ made me that way) and my brain has been addled by playing massive quantities of Civ, Civ2, Civ3, uhh, What was I talking about?

Anyway, I did some research before responding in the VictoryInfo file and found there is a Civopedia entry for Mastery victory and read that. You are right. The pedia says that Mastery is a unique victory condition which disables all other victories and is enabled by default. It is judged at the End Time (cf Nostradamus) and is based on a point distribution which is totally different from Total Score. Read the pedia entry if you want to know more; it is in the last category for AND concepts.

I must have disabled it when I started my game because I still have the other victory conditions available.

You could try to disable it by opening VictoryInfo xml file and setting all entries to 0; note that this block is type TOTAL_VICTORY and includes one tag not present in any of the other blocks, bTotalVictory, which is set to 1.

So, if you decide to try this, be sure to back everything up really well. Because, since Mastery disables all other conditions Afforess has obviously done something either in python or the dll to effect this. Thus, changing the xml tags may work to disable or may have no effect or may break everything. You have been warned. I would try this myself, but since my current game has it disabled I cannot.

AndarielHalo
Feb 04, 2011, 08:44 PM
My only point for even asking this is wondering if it can be changed in a saved game. Apparently BTS saved games cannot be edited. Is this true?

BobTheBull
Feb 04, 2011, 09:29 PM
@AH

Saved Games are not editable unless you are a master programmer, have broken down all the game engine programming and are expert at hex editing. To my knowledge not even Afforess has done that.

To your post before that: If you have to ask the question you probably shouldn't think about it.

I would say your questions are more uninformed than annoying. If you did some research on the forums before you asked a question you would probably find, like I do, the answers to most of them. If you want to know how things work look in the xml files.

Have you researched in this forum and others crashing issues? You complain about crashes but have given no information which might be useful in helping you. Your latest solution to CTD's seems to be to nukle a city rather than to try to figure out why that capture triggers a CTD. Shoot, ready, aim! Ask the right questions you might get answers.

AndarielHalo
Feb 04, 2011, 09:33 PM
I found out to edit the victory conditions and it affects the current game.


As for the crashes; what information? No one EVER says WHERE these supposed "Crash logs" are, and I've scoured every location Civ4 has made on my computer, and the closest information I get is incoherent Python messages that don't have a timecode for the actual crash itself.

There's no justification behind the crashes; at some point late in the game, it crashes when you scroll SOMETIMES. Sometimes it's when I scroll a lot. Sometimes it happens as soon as I scroll. Sometimes when I click on the minimap several times. Sometimes when I click on it once. It crashes when I try to invade a certain city. It crashes when I try to bribe it. And it's clearly bugged in some way given that it cannot be destroyed by fusion nuclears, and cannot be deleted via WorldEditor except after continuous clicking.

Afforess
Feb 04, 2011, 09:44 PM
Saves are saved with some kind of key. The key is in the EXE, and without it, it's impossible to reverse engineer the save.

JosEPh_II
Feb 05, 2011, 09:45 AM
AH,

Maybe you should try a game without Advanced Nukes. If a game without that option works late game then you would know if it has some problems. And from what you have posted I would surmise that It has some very big problems. I never use it as it's not my style of play so I don't eXperience what you have.

JosEPh

Kwami
Feb 05, 2011, 12:50 PM
As for the crashes; what information? No one EVER says WHERE these supposed "Crash logs" are, and I've scoured every location Civ4 has made on my computer, and the closest information I get is incoherent Python messages that don't have a timecode for the actual crash itself.

If you mean logs, you can find them in C:\Users\<Name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Logs for Windows Vista/7 and in a similar directory in Windows XP. If you mean the actual crash dump, that's somewhere in one of Windows' far too many temp directories. I don't think you'd get much from it anyway, though.

AndarielHalo
Feb 05, 2011, 12:53 PM
If you mean logs, you can find them in C:\Users\<Name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Logs for Windows Vista/7 and in a similar directory in Windows XP. If you mean the actual crash dump, that's somewhere in one of Windows' far too many temp directories. I don't think you'd get much from it anyway, though.



There's a bunch of logs there, none of them has any crash-related information that are updated, unless it's hidden in the PythonErr

Kwami
Feb 05, 2011, 12:56 PM
There's a bunch of logs there, none of them has any crash-related information that are updated, unless it's hidden in the PythonErr

When I was getting the CTD error in multiplayer, I thought the same thing. The useful part of the log ended up being that the log was cut off compared to a non-crash game.

AndarielHalo
Feb 05, 2011, 12:57 PM
That doesn't exactly help at all...


I'm only saying this because I can't submit my game file to be checked on, because I've added a few new civs to it

Kwami
Feb 05, 2011, 02:48 PM
I don't understand how you expect us to help you when you refuse to post any information that we could use to do so. Without logs, saves, etc. there's not much we can do.

AndarielHalo
Feb 05, 2011, 02:51 PM
I don't understand how you expect us to help you when you refuse to post any information that we could use to do so. Without logs, saves, etc. there's not much we can do.



I just told you I cannot do that, because I have custom content added to it outside of A New Dawn. The "crash" logs have no information on game files at all. You haven't told me which log file it is, anyway. I would rather have a starting grasp of how I should begin to approach crashes myself, even if it just means knowing "this crash involves Python, of which you have zero knowledge of handling, so ask someone else"

Marcin388
Feb 06, 2011, 09:12 AM
I've got rise of mankind 2.92 and a new dawn 1.75c. When I'm using rise of mankind - a new dawn mod, I've got TXT_key_restricted_units in my civilopedia... not all of them, but some are, and there is no info on them, only picture. Why is that, what can I do?
I've got it installed in windows 7 64-bit program files x86

BobTheBull
Feb 06, 2011, 09:56 AM
AH, step back and take ten deep breaths.

As has been pointed out several times, you have not given us one piece of information which could help us help you. Such information would include your hardware configuration, graphics driver, operating system, etc., the log files and any messages on screen. Because the logs and messages are incoherent to you does not mean they are to the rest of us. Quit telling us there is no useful information in the logs and let us decide that. As to which logs, all of them. Include the .ini file as well; speaking of that, you did enable logging in the .ini file, didn't you?

All crashes are justified; crashes always happen for a specific reason. The fact you do not understand it does not change anything. What you are trying to find is that reason; after you find it you look for a way to change/prevent it. Sometimes this means you may have to change the way you do things.

If you want a grasp of how to approach crashes, do what I told you: go through this thread and read everything about ctd's and maf's. Do this on several other threads and forums, such as main ROM2, Troubleshooting, modpacks RAND. Your approach to problem solving seems to be whenever something does not work the way you want it to you hit it with a hammer. Instead try to figure out how it does work and why. Then you may or may not be able to change the way it works. If you can't, do what the rest of us do and live with it.l

Follow the instructions earlier, I think by Stategyonly, and set up a game to run on autopilot using a completley unmodded RAND and see if you still get ctd's. If so send that save game to us. If not, then it is probably something you did. Quite frankly, when I have a problem ingame I go look at the last thing I changed and undo it; this fixes the problem most of the time.

Before I post a problem I always search through several forums for information. This has led me to the solution of 90% or more of my problems.

Dancing Hoskuld
Feb 06, 2011, 01:03 PM
I've got rise of mankind 2.92 and a new dawn 1.75c. When I'm using rise of mankind - a new dawn mod, I've got TXT_key_restricted_units in my civilopedia... not all of them, but some are, and there is no info on them, only picture. Why is that, what can I do?
I've got it installed in windows 7 64-bit program files x86

As BobTheBull says we can't tell what your problem is from your description. In this case a picture would be worth a thousand words. Take a screen shot of the problem. Use a graphics package (even MS Paint will do, I use GIMP) and post the screen shot in your post using the "Go Advanced" button and scrolling down to the "Manage Attachments" button. Screen shots saved in jpeg format have good compression.

BobTheBull
Feb 06, 2011, 01:37 PM
Why can't I dl the C patch. Every time I try I get this:

/tmp/vTASD8MX.exe.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

Tried many times with different mirrors, always same.

sachqwe
Feb 06, 2011, 01:54 PM
Great Mod, I enjoyed playing it.
I installed Rise of Mankind 8211; 8220;A New Dawn 1.75.exe8221; and then 8220;A New Dawn 1.75C8221; Patch.exe running on Windows XP SP3.
At the end of my first game today it appears that my space victory has not been recognized; please help.
I attach screen shots before and after what should have been the final turn.

Howard

Re # 4545 Thanx JosEPh II; you are correct, I had Mastery Victory "On". H

JosEPh_II
Feb 06, 2011, 02:22 PM
I would say that you left the Mastery Victory condition "On".

At game start up if you want a Space Race Victory Do Not leave the Mastery Box checked. Make sure it is Unchecked.

;)

JosEPh :)

TheDisco
Feb 07, 2011, 08:53 AM
I think I am having a bug with forests not giving proper health bonus to a nearby city. I've got a city with 7 forest plots nearby but it is only getting +1 health bonus. I think this bug might have something to do with the random event where you can get +2 health bonus for some experiments you perform on your people? I know this isn't tremendous detail on this error but has anybody else had issues with improper health calculations from forest?

Marcin388
Feb 07, 2011, 11:47 AM
ok I don't know how to get all those logs and I don't know what's that ini file, I'm not computer genius, that's why I can't solve problem myself. I would search for this problem on the forum, and I did, and there was no such a problem.
And I said in my previous post that I've got:
Windows 7 64-bit, also without UAC turned off I couldn't install A New Dawn because it wasn't compatible.
I've got DirectX 11.

Rise of Mankind doesn't have this problem, it's only in Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn. Shouldn't I install A New Dawn in the Rise of Mankind mod folder? I've got both mods installed, Rise of Mankind and A New Dawn.

Thanks for helping me. :)

I've got some screens here:

282011

282012

282013

TheDisco
Feb 07, 2011, 12:07 PM
Actually not sure this is a bug or not, but when you use fixed borders option I'm not sure it works as it should. Overall I like this option, except for the following situation:

1) You have fixed borders
2) Opponent has fixed borders
3) You create a city right next to their border, you automatically grab all the tiles surrounding your new city, even those within the "fixed border" opponent territory

I would think that if your opponent has fixed borders it shouldn't be working this way and that his borders are actually truly fixed.

----------------

Update:

Just read the civopedia more carefully and I guess this is how it is suppose to work. Civopedia says that any city in a fixed borders civ owns all the surrounding tiles (no exceptions). I guess I'll have to live with that, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to steal tiles from another fixed border civ that way. In my current game I founded a city next to an opponent and grabbed his only stone and only iron resources, and he didn't even get upset...

Kwami
Feb 07, 2011, 01:04 PM
ok I don't know how to get all those logs and I don't know what's that ini file, I'm not computer genius, that's why I can't solve problem myself. I would search for this problem on the forum, and I did, and there was no such a problem.
And I said in my previous post that I've got:
Windows 7 64-bit, also without UAC turned off I couldn't install A New Dawn because it wasn't compatible.
I've got DirectX 11.

Rise of Mankind doesn't have this problem, it's only in Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn. Shouldn't I install A New Dawn in the Rise of Mankind mod folder? I've got both mods installed, Rise of Mankind and A New Dawn.

Thanks for helping me. :)

I've got some screens here:

282011

282012

282013

1. Do not under any circumstances install RoM and AND into the same folder. It won't work. If you want to have both mods installed, install them to separate folders. If you only want to play AND, it includes all of RoM anyway.

2. You don't need to disable UAC to play win Windows 7. What you should do is install AND 1.75 to C:\Users\<Name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\MODS.

Kwami
Feb 07, 2011, 01:05 PM
Why can't I dl the C patch. Every time I try I get this:

/tmp/vTASD8MX.exe.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

Tried many times with different mirrors, always same.

Someone else was having the same error when he tried to download AND 1.75, too. It seems like the files have disappeared. :(

Marcin388
Feb 07, 2011, 01:27 PM
1. Do not under any circumstances install RoM and AND into the same folder. It won't work. If you want to have both mods installed, install them to separate folders. If you only want to play AND, it includes all of RoM anyway.

2. You don't need to disable UAC to play win Windows 7. What you should do is install AND 1.75 to C:\Users\<Name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\MODS.

I didn't install into the same mod, I just wondered if it will help, it's fine for me without UAC, it was annoying anyway.
But still my problem isn't solved. Thanks for help

soup567
Feb 07, 2011, 04:12 PM
Weird bug. I have the option for archer bombard on, but I can't make my archers do it. I don't know why.

Dancing Hoskuld
Feb 07, 2011, 04:25 PM
Weird bug. I have the option for archer bombard on, but I can't make my archers do it. I don't know why.

If I remember correctly this was a problem in the RevDCM dll which is the base for AND. The latest RevDCm fixes the problem, I think, so you will need to wait for Afforess or someone to merge it in.

soup567
Feb 07, 2011, 04:32 PM
If I remember correctly this was a problem in the RevDCM dll which is the base for AND. The latest RevDCm fixes the problem, I think, so you will need to wait for Afforess or someone to merge it in.

Ok thanks. But is there some key I can press as a short cut for bombardments? Or am I out of luck until the files get merged?

SirPode
Feb 08, 2011, 02:55 AM
I am still having issues with running AND (version 1.75 and patch 1.75C) on windows 7. I have followed the install instructions to the letter. I have tried turning off UAC, I have tried running in Admin. mode, I have tried re-downloading and reinstalling, I have tried every combination of the above. When I start the mod nothing changes; I so see in the upper right corner of my screen it saying "Rise of Man a New Dawn" but i don't have any of the features of the game.

I am running windows 7 64. The game is installed into a sub folder of drive C not program files but I don't think this is the issue because i had no issues with RoM or any other mod.

Please Help!!

P.S. sorry if this has already been addressed, I could not find info anywhere on the forum

JosEPh_II
Feb 10, 2011, 06:24 PM
The CIV IV game engine is a 32 bit system. I do believe that it should be installed in the Program Files (x86). Not the regular Program Files folder as a x64 bit system will try to use it's 64 bit processing on that directory/path.

What you havn't told us is your amount of Ram and video card specs.

I run an x64 XP Pro OS with 8GB of 1066Mhz DDR2 ram with a Dual Core IBM E7400 Wolfdale chipset on a Gigabyte Sata Mobo with dual Bios. My video card is only an ATI Radeon HD 4650 with 512MB of DDR2 vid ram, with Pixel Shader 4.1. I built this comp almost 2 years ago and have been able to run all versions of RoM and AND plus C2C that have been put out during this time span.

Hope you find a solution, Good luck. :)

JosEPh

Yerinau
Feb 10, 2011, 09:20 PM
Hey, the game is great, I've been sorta busy but I've finally got a chance to sit down and play with it a bit. At first, I got this error, then I redownloaded it and it worked for 1 game, then i reinstalled again and it worked. Well It's been working fine for a few weeks and today it just did the same thing: The Application has requested Runtime to terminate in an unusal way. blah blah blah.

At first, I thought maybe it was one of the leaderheads (I found someone on here who had the same error a while back when trying to install new leaderheads) but that wasnt it. Then I thought it could be my maps too big? Tried smaller and bigger. The only thing I can figure is the game runs fine until I mess with the options. I'm not sure which options I changed, but that's when it started this last time. I had gone into custom game and messed with the options, before I would just choose my leader, and map and hit go. Any Ideas? :confused:

Kwami
Feb 10, 2011, 09:51 PM
The CIV IV game engine is a 32 bit system. I do believe that it should be installed in the Program Files (x86). Not the regular Program Files folder as a x64 bit system will try to use it's 64 bit processing on that directory/path.

I'd be surprised if Windows is so poorly designed. I know it's Windows and believe me, my expectations are low, but that would just be sad. It's trivial to determine whether a Windows app is 32-bit or 64-bit by checking the header flags. That must be what they're doing!

AndarielHalo
Feb 10, 2011, 09:53 PM
The CIV IV game engine is a 32 bit system. I do believe that it should be installed in the Program Files (x86). Not the regular Program Files folder as a x64 bit system will try to use it's 64 bit processing on that directory/path.





I... I have a Windows 7 64-bit system, and I have Civilization IV installed on a second harddrive X. Would this stuff apply to me?

JosEPh_II
Feb 11, 2011, 04:54 PM
Quite possible that it does.

Is it just a "slave" HD to your 1st HD? If it's just a slave then it's using the OS on your Main HD which would be Win 7. You would've had to "install" an active OS on the 2nd HD to not be using win 7 64.

Under XP Pro 64 if you try to run a 16 or 32 bit .exe with the "regular" Program Files you will get a message to the effect that" X.exe is a valid exe but is for another machine type." But the Program Files (x86) tells the 64 bit OS to use the win sys 32 .dll and other 32 bit files necessary to run the 32 bit program.

To run the older 16 bit programs you will need a program like DOSBox. So old games like Master of Orion or Dune II I need to run thru Dosbox to get them to work on my x64 OS.

JosEPh

AndarielHalo
Feb 11, 2011, 04:55 PM
I... don't understand. It IS slaved to my first HD, and I installed Civ4 to the slave drive, and the base game (without RoM and/or AND) never had these sorts of crash problems, which aren't as prolific for me as they seem to be for others here.

JosEPh_II
Feb 11, 2011, 05:01 PM
I rarely have problems with my XP Pro 64 OS on running these mods. Which to me means that I made a good choice 2 years ago on my OS for this machine.

My oldest son uses win 7 and up till lately was a computer repairman. He's tried to get me to use win 7 but....I'm a bit stubborn about some things. ;) (if it's not broke don't "fix" it!)

JosEPh :)

AndarielHalo
Feb 11, 2011, 05:02 PM
Windows 7 definitely breaks things that were never broken to begin with (for example, no manual arrangement of files in folders

Kwami
Feb 11, 2011, 05:33 PM
I... I have a Windows 7 64-bit system, and I have Civilization IV installed on a second harddrive X. Would this stuff apply to me?

I have multiple 32-bit programs installed to secondary hard disks in Windows 7 and they all run fine. Don't worry about it.

kormer
Feb 12, 2011, 07:09 PM
Are there any reported issues with guilds? I'm noticing in one play through that anytime a guild is founded I crash a turn or three later. Could just be coincidence, but I've noticed this on maybe 5+ crashes that a guild was founded within a few turns. This is on eternity too, so it isn't like guilds are being founded every turn.

Elana
Feb 16, 2011, 12:30 PM
I'm sorry if this is the wrong place, but it seems no one goes to the ROM forums anymore. I need help getting it to run (necessary if I am to run a new dawn!) I'm on XP, with 2 gig ram, 1 meg video (nevdia card), duo core processor. I have civ 4 complete and have struggled for a week to get rom to run. i have done all the fixes mention in the forum, (the alt root = py thingy). I did not install colonization...) Plz... anyone who really knows how the mods work help me get rom to run? thank you. Plz, don't write again the obvious, i followed the directions... nada.

BobTheBull
Feb 16, 2011, 02:28 PM
Not sure if this is your problem Elana, but ROM-AND 1.75 is a self installing executable file. It installs ROM with the AND mods to ROM in it's own folder: /Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn. Your do not install ROM first. After you install RAND you need to install the 1.75c patch. That should be all you need to do. Why don't you try removing everything you installed before and reinstall RAND from the .exe file.

Note on the discussion about folder locations: Windows gets blamed for a lot of things which are not it's fault, but the fault of other software. One of these is that some programs will not work right unless everything is in their expected directories in /Program Files. I suspect that a lot of the problems people have with RAND has to do with this. Not sure how RAND keeps up with this, but I think it does actually search for and set the various paths on startup. Nonetheless it could be some modules still look for their default location in /Program Files/Fireaxis games, etc.

I tried installing programs on a different drive way back there, either 3.X or 95, and it didn't work at all. Too many things didn't work and I haven't tried it since. I installed Civ4, BTS and ROM-AND on a clean install of XP using the default locations and have not had any issues.

There is a thing called Symbolic Links, symlinks, which can be used to redirect any directory or file request to another location. Symlinks are associated with linux/unix but since Vista are available using the command mklink. If you want to keep your MyDocuments on your D: drive you set up a hard symlink to the folder on your D: drive and then any calls to Documents and Settings/User/My Documents will be redirected to the folder on your d: drive. Google symlinks in windows 7 for more information. You can do it in XP also but have to use an addon program. Google that as well.

Thus, you should be able to locate any files or folders in any location and have them work. Not saying you have to use symlinks for this, but it you do have a problem relocating files from their default locations this should fix it for good.

Kwami
Feb 16, 2011, 05:00 PM
Not sure if this is your problem Elana, but ROM-AND 1.75 is a self installing executable file. It installs ROM with the AND mods to ROM in it's own folder: /Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn. Your do not install ROM first. After you install RAND you need to install the 1.75c patch. That should be all you need to do. Why don't you try removing everything you installed before and reinstall RAND from the .exe file.

I think he's trying to just use RoM, not AND.

Without providing us more information, there isn't much that we can do to help you. RoM works just fine for me. What errors are you getting? Is anything loading at all?

Note on the discussion about folder locations: Windows gets blamed for a lot of things which are not it's fault, but the fault of other software. One of these is that some programs will not work right unless everything is in their expected directories in /Program Files. I suspect that a lot of the problems people have with RAND has to do with this. Not sure how RAND keeps up with this, but I think it does actually search for and set the various paths on startup. Nonetheless it could be some modules still look for their default location in /Program Files/Fireaxis games, etc.

Nah, I've used both RoM and RoM+AND with Civ4 installed in at least three different locations. Doesn't matter.

What you need to ensure is that the mods themselves are in the right place. Either put them in your ..\Beyond the Sword\MODS folder or put them in C:\Users\<Name>\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\MODS. For WinXP, the path is slightly different.

I tried installing programs on a different drive way back there, either 3.X or 95, and it didn't work at all. Too many things didn't work and I haven't tried it since. I installed Civ4, BTS and ROM-AND on a clean install of XP using the default locations and have not had any issues.

Bah, Win95 is 16 years old! The current versions of Windows aren't even based on the same kernel. :P

JosEPh_II
Feb 16, 2011, 05:30 PM
Elana,
I posted a reply in the Main RoM Forum. If it's not a solution (and it is a common one) then like Kwami said we would need specific details as to how it loads/tries to start.

We would love to get it working for you to enjoy. :)

JosEPh

Elana
Feb 16, 2011, 07:00 PM
Elana,
I posted a reply in the Main RoM Forum. If it's not a solution (and it is a common one) then like Kwami said we would need specific details as to how it loads/tries to start.

We would love to get it working for you to enjoy. :)

JosEPh

OK, I really appreciate the kind words, and offer to help. Iv'e been extremely frustrated... here goes.. my system... (rig as my daughter calls it).

win xp, home, serv pak 3.
PC, AMD Althlon 64x2 Dual core processor 5200+
2.7GHz, 2.00 GB ram. Nvidia graphics card w 1 ram..
((My system exceeds - a little - minimum requirements for mod ))

Civ 4 complete, BTS patched to 3.19 (no 'unofficial' patches). Direct X and NET are fine. BTS runs fine,all the other mods (that came with it) - run fine. "save version 301"

A few hours ago I reinstalled Civ 4 complete, from retail CD, all default paths.
I just used the installer to install ROM -AND. And I just installed the patch to ROM - ANewDawn patch 'c.'

Prior to this I spent a week struggling to get just ROM running, I run BTS, and in advanced options, select ROM. Nada happens. Then I followed the directions for using the CvAltRoot = py doc, exactly, tried both 'fixs.' Nada.

THEN, in desperation, I put the c-root thingy everywhere, and I did get the mod to run, but without an interface.

Now, today, I discovered ROM-AND (c) has a self installer, so i did that. i put everything in the default folder for BTS mods:

"c:program files/2k games/firaxis games/sid meier's civilization 4 complete/beyond the sword/mods/rise of mankind - a new dawn"

The CvAltroot = py file is identical to the one in ROM. In fact most of the file s and folders look the same as ROM (alone)...

So, since I am obviously stupid, exactly what do i do? DO i put the ROM-AND in the mod folder in "... documents and settings ... my games...."?

-OR- do I leave it in the "... program files ... BTS/mods" folder?

the civ4.ini is in the "... my docs ... BTS" folder Again, default placement by Civ...complete installer. This IS this the BTS ini? (and not the civ vanilla ini, yes?)

The CvAltRoot=py has ONE line of code. It read, by default as :

"rootDir = "C:/Documents and Settings/[UserName]/My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword"

I have tried placing copies of this file in ONE, the other, and BOTH places it suggests in the "## comments.. directions, yada "
I have also tried all three of above with "[username]" changed to "[elana]" (name of computer) ... still nada.

So... trying to get A new Dawn to actually run seems to be exactly the same problem as trying to get ROM to run.

So, is the civ.ini placed by the default installer in the 'docs and settings ... BTS' the BTS ini? ( I note that in "...docs and settings...", the BTS folder is NOT 'in" the Civ4 folder. This is the default set up.. is this the cause of the problem?

Do I need to go into the docs and settings, and create a "Civ 4 folder" (or civ 4 complete?) and put the BTS folder inside it?

So, am I doing something wrong with the root=py? How should I write the "RootDir = ..."

Have I missed something else? Ask me, if I did not include info you think will help...

thanks again.... elana :confused:


addendum; when I load BTS, Ok, pick load mod, AND, CTD:

Dialog box reads:

" ... civ4beyondthesword.exe appver 3131
civcoredll.dll modver 3.1.9.0
offset 00086d60 ..."

are you suggesting I should move the mod from "... programs..." TO "documents .... BTS/mods..."?

Elana
Feb 16, 2011, 08:16 PM
OK, how I can I tell, for sure, which ini is the BTS ini, as opposed to the warlords, or vanilla ini? I assumed the ini placed with the default setting by the installer would correspond to the folder. - ie the civ ini in the BTS folder IS the BTS ini.... yes? So, why won't the cvroot thingy, when i tell to to look in the bts ini in the "...docs ... bts.... ' folder actually do it. I think the game is (civgameciredll.dll i) s timing out cause it dosn;'t connect with next part of program? I hate this hassle....

ok i did a clean install, and put the and in the "... doc... bts/mods folder" same thing... it installs fine, patches to 'c' fine... but when i activate bts, and then load the and mod, ctd, nothing happens, then the same error window...

is all this hassle because civ 4 complete has a different path? c:/programs/k2 games .... bts/mods/rom - and"

Elana
Feb 17, 2011, 09:07 AM
I found the problem. AND is running fine, i think (played 5 moves ok so far).

Problem: BTS says its patched to 3.19 However, when I go to updates (in game) it says an update IS available. When I download the update, it wants to UNinstall the patch. This morning I decided, OK, let it UN install the 3.19 patch. It did. The I manually re-installed the 3.19 patch. Seems to run OK, now.


Thank you all for your kind worlds and help. Thank you.

TO MOD MAKER: may i suggest you place a 'note' in the CvRoot = py that suggests UNinstalling the 3.19 patch and REinstalling it. Also,, perhaps put that in the install directions, as I cannot imagine that I am the only one who has faced this hassle.

Thanks again. elana

BobTheBull
Feb 17, 2011, 10:11 AM
Elana, your description is anything but clear. I don't really understand what you have done or why. It sounds like you have done way too much and this may be your problem.

For you and everyone who has trouble with this:

The standard arrangement of folders is: (I am abbreviating)

D&S/My Docs/My Games/Beyond the Sword
D&S/My Docs/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4

There should be a set of identical folders under each of the above, Assets, Custom Assets, MOD, etc. (Note that MOD folder is always all caps; not sure if this matters).
In each of the above folders is the .ini file for the program always named CivilizationIV.ini (at least I have never seen another name). Pretty sure it would screw things all up if the ini file had any other name. Ignore the Civ4 folder here; the only thing we are interested is the BTS folders. Do not, however, delete the Civ4 folders. The save game files are in the /Saves folder, BTW.

You can set the Mod to ROM AND with this setting:

Mod = Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn
(note there is no slash and the spaces around the -). This will start RAND everytime you start BTS.

In /Program Files, or wherever you choose to put it, there will be a Fireaxis Games folder with a folder /Sid Meier's Civilization 4 right under the FG folder. Directly below that is the /Beyond The Sword folder, with a bunch of subfolders under that folder. Again, we are interested in BTS only, but do not delete any of the vanilla folders or files, ditto the BTS folders and files.

Like this:

/wherever/Fireaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/bunch of folders

As Kwami pointed out, the RAND main folder and ALL it's subfolders and files must be located (exactly as they were installed from the .exe) in:

/wherever/Fireaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods
or
/D&S/My Docs/My Games/Beyond the Sword/MOD
(Note the different spelling and capitolization.)

Thanks for clarifying that for us, Kwami. Personally I think it is preferable to use the first location, which is the default. I am pretty sure the spelling must be just as above for things to work; if any one knows dirrerent, please tell.

There is a CVPath.py file for RAND which locates and sets paths, I assume these paths are for the various AND and BUG add ons. But I am pretty sure it won't work if you don't have the mod located as above.

Don't know what the CVRoot=py thingy is so have never used it. I wonder if using that could be part of your problem.

As far as reinstalling the 3.19 patch, I have never had to do that but others have reported the same thing you found.

Hope all this helps more than it confuses.

BobTheBull
Feb 17, 2011, 10:26 AM
BTW, is .NET Framework needed for Civ4? Elana's mention that her .NET was OK got me to thinking.

I ask this because I run Civ in XP in a virtual machine. I also use the vm for 3D CAD and some other applications I cannot get in linux. Between games and the graphics programs my XP install had gotten a little cluttered, so I set up another virtual machine for games only and the original vm would then be for other apps only. The games vm would have only the minimum services running to maximize memory. It would also have more free disk space.

I set it up, installed from scratch vanilla, patched to latest, installed BTS, patched to 3.19 and installed RAND with the 1.75b patch. I then renamed the RAND folder to keep a virgin set of files available and copied my saved game files, the entire mod folder (which I have modded) and other files from the old to the new vm. And it works.

Except it is verry slooowwww. I mean, the first vm is slow, it takes 6-8 minutes to load from a saved game file, and 2 minutes to load a saved game file after that and between turn times are a little long, but not so bad that I can't play. In the new vm, which as far as I can see is set up exactly the same as far as Civ is concerned it takes 20-30 minutes to load and movement in the game is painfully slow.

I had not posted anything here as this would seem to be not a Civ issue at all. But, the old vm does have .NET installed as well as JVR for some other programs I use. Is it possible this is why it's so much slower? Does anyone know what other processes or services need to be running for Civ to run well?

BobTheBull
Feb 17, 2011, 10:47 AM
And to answer one question, Yes, if you change the spelling it won't work, but capitalization apparently does not. I changed the Mods folder to MOD and it really screwed things up; tried to load standard BTS which of course didn't work and wound up with three instances of the .exe file which had to be closed.

However, changed Mods to mods and everything loaded fine.

Kwami
Feb 17, 2011, 11:56 AM
@BobTheBull

Just a few points.
1. Windows is not case sensitive, so the capitalization of letters never matters for file names. It's stupid, but that's how it is.

2. The reason I recommend using the My Documents location instead of the Program Files location is that it doesn't require administrator privileges (UAC) in Vista and Win7.

3. I don't think Civ4 uses .NET at all. It does include it's own Visual C++ runtime DLLs in the main install folder, though. So, I think you should be fine.

As for your virtual machine, I don't know what's up. It could be any number of things, really. Most likely, the problem is a result of the way you configured everything and not something Civ4 or the mods did.

@Elana:

Glad you got it working. Sorry we couldn't be of more help. I've never had to reinstall the patch. Usually, it's a simple process of installing Civ IV, installing 3.19, installing AND 1.75 (and Patch C) to the 'My Documents' location, and then playing. I've never had to set the root the way you did, either. It seems that you should only need to set that value when you install AND to a directory other than the two mentioned here.

Elana
Feb 17, 2011, 02:59 PM
Thanks again, all.

JosEPh_II
Feb 17, 2011, 05:45 PM
Good to see you figured it out. The python root fix was for some ppl that had trouble when the BBAI or the BULL mod was added to RoM's/REVDCM's base. But was not a generally needed item.

Since you have win xp home SP3 (a 32bit OS) then the Program directory is a better path than the My Documents directory. But like Kwami stated, if you have Vista or Win 7 then My Docs path is a viable path.

All that aside, it was your perseverance that actually won the day! Congratulations and Welcome to the RoM Forum! :D

JosEPh :)

xyzxyz
Feb 19, 2011, 02:20 PM
EDIT -> created own thread ("plasma tanks broken"); please post any reply there

Aye, I definitely need help - urgently! I'm very deep into an engaging game - at the point where I and another Civ start building Plasma tanks. Problem is, that particular unit art is buggy - it just messes up the screen whenever one of these tanks scrolls into view on the map (render issue, it seems, it just draws lines across the whole screen left to right). Otherwise this game is perfectly stable and I'd love to play it thru - less than 400 turns to go. So I'd need to delete this particular unit art/substitute it with another unit art that works (Stealth Tanks are perfectly ok, for example). In which folder do I find the Plasma Tank artwork/unit data - and in which folder would be a suitable replacement artwork/unit data that I could copy/paste in its place? Could someone please offer a brief step-by-step walkthru on how to proceed here? Thanks! Thanks very much indeed!!! :goodjob:

Docus
Feb 20, 2011, 06:24 PM
I just installed this modpack and have been experimenting... unfortunately, it's quite broken for me. My capital city works as it should, but every other city I build is effectively stuck at size 1. When I click on the city to view the worker management, it's apparent why: there's only one "worker" available, and it's the tile that the city is built on. There's no additional worker to be sent elsewhere to gather food, etc.
In the capital, the number of workers is normal: the population size + 1. So at size 9, I have 10 workers (including the city tile).
Any ideas what's going on here?

AndarielHalo
Feb 20, 2011, 06:32 PM
I just installed this modpack and have been experimenting... unfortunately, it's quite broken for me. My capital city works as it should, but every other city I build is effectively stuck at size 1. When I click on the city to view the worker management, it's apparent why: there's only one "worker" available, and it's the tile that the city is built on. There's no additional worker to be sent elsewhere to gather food, etc.
In the capital, the number of workers is normal: the population size + 1. So at size 9, I have 10 workers (including the city tile).
Any ideas what's going on here?




I... I almost didn't understand what the hell you just said.

All cities by default that have a population of ONE only have ONE tile available; the main city itself. Buildings like the Village Hall and such give you free "workers" (they're actually called Citizens). The reason your city might not be growing is due to unhappiness and/or unhealthiness, even occurring on the next turn.


I'm not sure if it's a recent patch of 1.75's, but I noticed in my last campaign that cities that were 1 turn away from both growing AND from becoming unhappy, they would NOT grow next turn in order to avoid the unhappiness, because if it happened and I did not do something to alleviate the unhappiness within the SAME turn, the city would shrink again

Docus
Feb 20, 2011, 08:31 PM
...

All cities by default that have a population of ONE only have ONE tile available; the main city itself. Buildings like the Village Hall and such give you free "workers" (they're actually called Citizens). The reason your city might not be growing is due to unhappiness and/or unhealthiness, even occurring on the next turn.



Thanks for your quick reply, AndarielHalo.

My apologies for not knowing the correct terminology.

As for the default number of citizens, new level-1 cities usually include a citizen that can be repositioned, made into a specialist, etc., IN ADDITION TO the 'free' labor and food that occurs in the base city tile. However, in my experience with this mod so far, only my capital city is behaving correctly. New cities are not providing any citizens, aside from the base tile, which cannot be moved or made into a specialist.

I started a new game to see if I could replicate the error, and I'll try to post a couple of screenshots to demonstrate the problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0ezibtzab0jzws/moscow.jpg

In my capital, Moscow, you can see that the population is currently 1. However, in addition to the resources of the base city tile, I have a citizen that can be sent to gather food/hammers elsewhere. This is normal.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/scyzbwrh9ewqtdi/stpete.jpg

In the newly-created city of St. Petersburg, the population is also 1. However, I have no deployable citizens. Just the base city tile, which will never produce enough food to move the city beyond 'stagnant.'

So that's the issue. If it would help, I could post my saved game.

AndarielHalo
Feb 20, 2011, 10:20 PM
Thanks for your quick reply, AndarielHalo.

My apologies for not knowing the correct terminology.

As for the default number of citizens, new level-1 cities usually include a citizen that can be repositioned, made into a specialist, etc., IN ADDITION TO the 'free' labor and food that occurs in the base city tile. However, in my experience with this mod so far, only my capital city is behaving correctly. New cities are not providing any citizens, aside from the base tile, which cannot be moved or made into a specialist.

I started a new game to see if I could replicate the error, and I'll try to post a couple of screenshots to demonstrate the problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0ezibtzab0jzws/moscow.jpg

In my capital, Moscow, you can see that the population is currently 1. However, in addition to the resources of the base city tile, I have a citizen that can be sent to gather food/hammers elsewhere. This is normal.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/scyzbwrh9ewqtdi/stpete.jpg

In the newly-created city of St. Petersburg, the population is also 1. However, I have no deployable citizens. Just the base city tile, which will never produce enough food to move the city beyond 'stagnant.'

So that's the issue. If it would help, I could post my saved game.





I was wrong; base cities with 1 population DO have a citizen outside of the base city plot.


However, to be honest, if you honestly don't know what's wrong, methinks you're a bit new for RoM AND, much less Civ4. But that's just my opinion.


The problem is you have Unhappiness in that city. The red citizen on the screen is the one who would be working, but because of whatever issue, they refuse to work.

JosEPh_II
Feb 21, 2011, 07:45 AM
Thanks for your quick reply, AndarielHalo.

My apologies for not knowing the correct terminology.

As for the default number of citizens, new level-1 cities usually include a citizen that can be repositioned, made into a specialist, etc., IN ADDITION TO the 'free' labor and food that occurs in the base city tile. However, in my experience with this mod so far, only my capital city is behaving correctly. New cities are not providing any citizens, aside from the base tile, which cannot be moved or made into a specialist.

I started a new game to see if I could replicate the error, and I'll try to post a couple of screenshots to demonstrate the problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0ezibtzab0jzws/moscow.jpg

In my capital, Moscow, you can see that the population is currently 1. However, in addition to the resources of the base city tile, I have a citizen that can be sent to gather food/hammers elsewhere. This is normal.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/scyzbwrh9ewqtdi/stpete.jpg

In the newly-created city of St. Petersburg, the population is also 1. However, I have no deployable citizens. Just the base city tile, which will never produce enough food to move the city beyond 'stagnant.'

So that's the issue. If it would help, I could post my saved game.

St Petersburg needs more defenders to get rid of the Angry (redface) citizen. If you will place your cursor over the angry citizen it will give you reasons for being angry.

Upon on the city screen header for St. Pete your angry (red) faces outnumber your happy (yellow) faces. Once you either get 1 or 2 more defenders into the city or build a Happiness producing building for that city it will continue to be in a reduced productive state.

When you found a New city for AND it is always best to escort that settler with 3 military units to the new city site. Then the defenders be placed inside the city in fortified stance.

It's how AND is built. You can sometimes get away with 2 defenders IF your new city will be adjacent to a well established city( more than 3 defenders and a good Happiness Rating.

JosEPh :)

diziple
Feb 21, 2011, 08:53 AM
Hey guys! Again this mod is so much fun that my social life is deteriorating. Now I am not sure if that can be called a bug, but I do have another thing that seems to not work as it should..

Shrimps is supposed to give one additional health point regardless of any other buildings boosting this. In my last game my capital had one unhealthy citizen and I was looking forward to get my dirty shrimpfingers on the nearest resource. But to my great dissapointment my capital is still infested with illnesses that doesn't seem to be cured by this delicious treasure from the sea.

So I was wondering if this was a known bug that is going to be taken care of in the next patch?

Again... This mod f'in rocks ass!

Docus
Feb 21, 2011, 09:54 AM
Thanks!

AndarielHalo
Feb 21, 2011, 10:55 AM
Hey guys! Again this mod is so much fun that my social life is deteriorating. Now I am not sure if that can be called a bug, but I do have another thing that seems to not work as it should..

Shrimps is supposed to give one additional health point regardless of any other buildings boosting this. In my last game my capital had one unhealthy citizen and I was looking forward to get my dirty shrimpfingers on the nearest resource. But to my great dissapointment my capital is still infested with illnesses that doesn't seem to be cured by this delicious treasure from the sea.

So I was wondering if this was a known bug that is going to be taken care of in the next patch?

Again... This mod f'in rocks ass!




Nothing to do with the mod, but it's how the base game itself is structured.


Health is cumulative and nation-wide; getting ahold of a resource beneficial to health doesn't mean your nearby city will become instantly healthy----health and unhealth are balanced by a variety of factors, ranging from population size, certain buildings which add to unhealthiness, difficulty level, and certain products like tobacco or lead.


Adding shrimp will add a +1 to health all throughout your nation, but if a city has 10 health versus 14 unhealthiness, adding Shrimp will only make it 11 health versus 14 unhealthiness.

diziple
Feb 21, 2011, 11:14 AM
Nothing to do with the mod, but it's how the base game itself is structured.


Health is cumulative and nation-wide; getting ahold of a resource beneficial to health doesn't mean your nearby city will become instantly healthy----health and unhealth are balanced by a variety of factors, ranging from population size, certain buildings which add to unhealthiness, difficulty level, and certain products like tobacco or lead.


Adding shrimp will add a +1 to health all throughout your nation, but if a city has 10 health versus 14 unhealthiness, adding Shrimp will only make it 11 health versus 14 unhealthiness.

You are perfectly right here and I have taken all these things into consideration for gods sake :p

The deal is.. I monitor my cities pretty damn zealotly and according to my calculations my city were supposed to become healthy!!

hehe.. maybe I have overlooked something I'll check this more in my next game.

Thanks for your answer :)

AndarielHalo
Feb 21, 2011, 11:16 AM
You are perfectly right here and I have taken all these things into consideration for gods sake :p

The deal is.. I monitor my cities pretty damn zealotly and according to my calculations my city were supposed to become healthy!!

hehe.. maybe I have overlooked something I'll check this more in my next game.

Thanks for your answer :)



I don't know if it's from the mod, but cutting down forests close to the city causes unhealthiness as well. Also, if you're using Flexible Difficulty, the rise in difficulty will affect health. Otherwise, it's probably something you did to anger Ahura Mazda

diziple
Feb 21, 2011, 12:01 PM
I don't know if it's from the mod, but cutting down forests close to the city causes unhealthiness as well. Also, if you're using Flexible Difficulty, the rise in difficulty will affect health. Otherwise, it's probably something you did to anger Ahura Mazda

Damnit! Thats It! I knew I couldn't trust the guy.. So much for all my sacrifices.

rumpelkiste
Feb 22, 2011, 06:29 AM
Hi there. (incoming terrible english, sry ;) )

I installed the stand-alone RoM/AND 1.75 + Patch C into my Civ4-BTS 3.19 game.

When i start a game with more than 18 civs, e.g. "Earth 28 preset civs, Huge.CivBeyondSwordWBSave" in RoM/AND private maps-folder, my civ ist defeated immediately.
Using the map "Earth 18 preset civs, Huge.CivBeyondSwordWBSave" ... the game beginns normaly (undefeated).
When i add a 19th civ to "Earth 18 preset civs, Huge.CivBeyondSwordWBSave", again, my civ will be defeated in the first turn.

This problem does not occur using RoM 2.91 without AND.
This problem wasn't present using RoM 2.92 + an AND version before 1.75 (1.74?). (deleted the working RoM-AND-combination from my harddrive some time ago :/ ... )

Any ideas (concerning problem)?

Any idea where to download a non-stand-alone version of AND (for RoM 2.92)?

Kwami
Feb 22, 2011, 10:15 AM
There isn't a non-stand-alone version of AND 1.75 available. You might be able to get an older version from another user here, but it's not supported. Whatever you do, definitely don't install RoM and AND to the same folder. That won't work.

BobTheBull
Feb 22, 2011, 12:54 PM
@rumplekiste

The problem you are having sounds like it comes from using generic maps, not maps modified for ROM-AND. If I remember it has something to do with the entries for civs in the WB file. They have to be edited to work with the megaciv pack in AND.

Don't remember exactly, but search through here, or better yet the maps forum for AND and ROM for this.

BTW, JosEPh II did a little write up in the modpack RAND forum about using too many civs. If I understand correctly, he said jusing more than 12 civs with barb cics turned on would result in too many civs for the game to handle and lead to ctd's and/or long turn times. I also recall he said more than 24 total civs will gum up the works, so I guess with barb civs off you could set up to 24 civs? although I would certainly use less. Maybe you could clarify that for us, Joe.

I did load the Earth 28 preset map and played 3 or 4 turns without any problem. The one I used was in the MyGames/BTS/Private Maps folder.

JosEPh_II
Feb 22, 2011, 05:58 PM
Because of all the added content from RoM and then AND there is sooo much more processing that needs to be done per turn than Vanilla BtS ever had to do. The CivGameCore.dll for Vanilla BtS was designed for Up To 48 AI Civs plus player plus Barbarians (which counted as 1 AI Civ) equaling 50 Total. (That's why you can find Maps for 50Civs but they are actually designed originally for Vanilla BtS).

But as RoM and the AND grew both Zappara and Aforress found out that for 32bit OS to Comfortable play this Mega sized Mod that the max number of AI civs was actually closer to 24-28 range. Over this # and the possibilities for MAFs/CTDs increased exponentially.

Also factor in that until the 3GB/switch was introduced most Win 32bit OS's, at that time, only utilized 2GB of ram. And 256MB of video ram with shader 2.0 tech was the norm 3+ years ago.

Barb World actually places 1 Barb City for every AI you set the game up for, hence the 24 AI Limit suggestion. If every Barb city survived you would have the vanilla BtS limit of 48AI.

Now couple this with Barb Civ and the total limit could easily be reached and exceeded causing CTDs. Early on it did just that.

So If you want to play with Barb Civ and Barb World turned "ON" then you really need to cut back on the # of AI you allow at Game set up. Unless, of course, you want that Game you've spent several days on to CTD or MAF. ;)

I have a x64 OS with 8GB of ram and I rarely play with more than 12 AI. Even moreso with Barb Civ or World enabled. When I turn them on, my games grow to have 20+ AI in them fairly quickly and on a regular basis.

Now factor in Content for this Mod. Even though Aforress trimmed 1.75 down it still has ~500MB of Art and Music in addition to the 250MB Core. The tech tree alone has over 260+ tech while vanilla only has 84. Then add all the buildings and units that went with that extra tech, plus the added promotions for units, etc., etc., and your Computer is soon struggling to breathe if you wish to use more than 24-28 AI.

I hope that all made sense and helps clarify why less is better with AND/RoM in terms of # of AI used at game set up.

JosEPh :)

rumpelkiste
Feb 24, 2011, 07:53 AM
@rumplekiste

The problem you are having sounds like it comes from using generic maps, not maps modified for ROM-AND. If I remember it has something to do with the entries for civs in the WB file.The map, i want to use, IS an RoM-map: the ressources (potatoes, hemp, salt, etc) are (were?) present on the map.
I used the map with an older version of AND (1.74 i think) without problems.

No map in the private maps-folder of RoM2.92-AND175C has fixed start positions for civs.

BobTheBull
Feb 24, 2011, 01:07 PM
@rumpelkiste

The problem of being defeated as soon as the map loads is definitely a problem with the WBSave file. I just loaded another huge, 50 civ map, named hugh50.etc, and got the same thing. I don't remember exactly what has to be edited, but am pretty sure it has to do with the civs in the file, either the order or having to match up with the civs in AND.

I have loaded a 28 preset map, Earth 28 preset civs, huge.etc, and it works OK with all 28 civs active for 4 or 5 turns. It is in the /MyGames/BTS/Private Maps folder but that's because I put it there. I dl'd it from a forum thread somewhere.

Why don't you post a copy of the file here so we can take a look at it.

draz
Feb 25, 2011, 05:29 PM
I guess the changing civ names has been expanded upon recently? I'm just loving all the new additions - even tho 'Peaceful Great Holy Roman Kingdom' is a bit of a mouthful. :D

Elana
Feb 25, 2011, 06:04 PM
Feedback: A.. your A New Dawn is the best Civ 4i have played. Totally awesome mods of ROM, and its now the only civ I play (besides Rhyes and Fall)...

What a trip, through history. I commend you, and want you to know i am grateful for this modmod.... All the best, elana

digitCruncher
Feb 28, 2011, 07:53 PM
I am noticing some un-mentioned civic effects. Specifically, Paradise and Superhuman (and maybe some other of the 'Future' civics that were moved around in the last update) have an unmentioned +30 billion% Corporation maintanance. This means that things like Sids Sushi yeilds (from memory) +3 :food:, -22 :gold:, +6 :culture:.

Does anyone have any idea of why this would be? I will be looking through the civic info for any errors in the XML, but where else would that bug lie? It is REALLY annoying as I would like the no pollution from buildings AND my corporations too...

AndarielHalo
Feb 28, 2011, 07:55 PM
I am noticing some un-mentioned civic effects. Specifically, Paradise and Superhuman (and maybe some other of the 'Future' civics that were moved around in the last update) have an unmentioned +30 billion% Corporation maintanance. This means that things like Sids Sushi yeilds (from memory) +3 :food:, -22 :gold:, +6 :culture:.

Does anyone have any idea of why this would be? I will be looking through the civic info for any errors in the XML, but where else would that bug lie? It is REALLY annoying as I would like the no pollution from buildings AND my corporations too...



Based on my experiences late in the game, either the commerce-displays are badly inaccurate or bugged, or else the re-distributions and such are :spank:

diziple
Mar 01, 2011, 02:03 PM
I think there may be a bug with the city walls random event. When you have built the high walls you don't get +1 :gold: from the event.. When you hover over the option of it there is no bonus to be gained.

Maybe this is not a bug after all, but I thought I might mention it.

digitCruncher
Mar 04, 2011, 07:31 PM
I solved the EXTREMELY high corporation bug.

Basically, there is a new tag called <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier>, which, if it is defined, seems to always reduce the corporation maintanance(!). 13 civics have it:

Subsidised, Socialized, COrporate, Private, Environmentalism, Regulated, Corporatist, Planned, Mercantilism, Guilds, Coinage, Aristocracy, Proleterant

I was running Republic/Bureaucracy/Liberal/Free Market/Volunteer Army/Free Market/Paradise.

Basically, <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier> is the 'tax levy on corporations' modifier. HOWEVER, it is currently bugged, as the person doing the XML wasn't talking to the person doing the python code. By the looks of things, according to the XML, a value above -100 is equal to a tax subsidy on a corporation (the percentage is equal to the difference), and a value below -100 is a tax levy. End result: Green has -150 and corporatist has -75 (with a 50% levy and a 25% subsidy respectively)

However, instead of the default value being -100, it is 0, which means a 100% subsidy!!

Switching to corporatist reduced the corporate maintanance from -10.21 and -18.64 to -2.55 and -4.65. Ironically, these are 75% reductions in maintanance costs (despite the Civilopedia saying it should be a 25% INCREASE)

So, in summary, <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier> is completely bugged. Ultimately, my 'solution' is pretty harsh XML fiddling. Firstly, EVERY value of iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier needs to be increased by 100 (which would make the civilopedia incorrectly say that corporatist gives a 125% subsidy, instead of 25%), and maintanance costs of corporations need to be decreased by a HUGE amount (I am thinking about having a 75% reduction in maintanance costs, although 50% might be reasonable)

AndarielHalo
Mar 04, 2011, 07:32 PM
I didn't understand what you just said

digitCruncher
Mar 04, 2011, 07:35 PM
How did you read it that quickly. I didn't even have time to open Notepad to change the XML.

OK, to make it very simple:

If your civic has a X% subsidy to corporations, then maintanance of corporations goes DOWN by a large amount (the smaller the subsidy, the larger the amount)

If your civic has a X% levy to corporations, any corporation has 0 gold maintanance.

This is a bug. The solution is to change the XML (this is the little words that make civilisation IV work) to make it work correctly. BUT this makes the civiliopedia WRONG as it will think everything has a subsidy, and corporatist will have a displayed 125% subsidy, although the game will treat it as a 25% subsidy.

AndarielHalo
Mar 04, 2011, 07:38 PM
I did read it that quickly. As soon as you say X% subsidy, I lose it. As in, I start picturing Michael Douglas sitting in a building cackling as the Union of Soviet Socialist Empire of Holy Roman Serbia dominates the Kingdom of America and nukes them a few times and his corporation expands into another city, bringing plus gold and food but some unhealth.


I didn't even know corporations had maintenance costs. How does that make sense? I know corporations can be so insanely bloatedly corrupt that they can con federal governments into giving them free money, but I'm in direct control of my government. Why should I let corporations take money from me? If they have a problem, we'll proscribe them, and declare war on the civilization that founded them.

digitCruncher
Mar 04, 2011, 07:48 PM
Corporations have maintainance costs, part of the drawbacks of having corporations in your city. It is in Vanilla BtS too. I am not quite sure what it symbolizes, but it is a little balance part of the game. I think it is the nation providing basic services and law changes for the corporations, in addition to the abolition (or decrease in profits of) of competing state owned enterprises. Obviously, nations that don't have the effects of corporations (like Planned nations) don't pay corporation maintenance.

Certain civics can increase these maintenance costs (representing the state funding the corporations.) This increases the speed at which corporations spread through your nation ALTHOUGH my XML change *might* make that bugged too, I don't know yet. This is called a "Subsidy"

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2126/civ4screenshot0054.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/civ4screenshot0054.jpg/)

Other civics can DECREASE maintanance costs, which impedes the spread of corporations. Civics like Green have this 'levy' cost (Green has the highest: 50% levy, or iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier of -150), which represents the nations dislike of corporations. The more capatalist the nation, the lower the iRealCorporationMaintananceModifier, and the more socalist the nation, the higher the iRealCorporationMaintananceModifier.

The problem is, if you have a corporatist, corporatism nation (which *should* give a 35% subsidy to all corporations), maintenance costs for corporations goes to 0!

AndarielHalo
Mar 04, 2011, 07:51 PM
The problem is, if you have a corporatist, corporatism nation (which *should* give a 35% subsidy to all corporations), maintenance costs for corporations goes to 0!



I think that represents corruption and monopolizations

JosEPh_II
Mar 05, 2011, 12:28 PM
I solved the EXTREMELY high corporation bug.

Basically, there is a new tag called <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier>, which, if it is defined, seems to always reduce the corporation maintanance(!). 13 civics have it:

Subsidised, Socialized, COrporate, Private, Environmentalism, Regulated, Corporatist, Planned, Mercantilism, Guilds, Coinage, Aristocracy, Proleterant

I was running Republic/Bureaucracy/Liberal/Free Market/Volunteer Army/Free Market/Paradise.

Basically, <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier> is the 'tax levy on corporations' modifier. HOWEVER, it is currently bugged, as the person doing the XML wasn't talking to the person doing the python code. By the looks of things, according to the XML, a value above -100 is equal to a tax subsidy on a corporation (the percentage is equal to the difference), and a value below -100 is a tax levy. End result: Green has -150 and corporatist has -75 (with a 50% levy and a 25% subsidy respectively)

However, instead of the default value being -100, it is 0, which means a 100% subsidy!!

Switching to corporatist reduced the corporate maintanance from -10.21 and -18.64 to -2.55 and -4.65. Ironically, these are 75% reductions in maintanance costs (despite the Civilopedia saying it should be a 25% INCREASE)

So, in summary, <iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier> is completely bugged. Ultimately, my 'solution' is pretty harsh XML fiddling. Firstly, EVERY value of iRealCorporationMaintenanceModifier needs to be increased by 100 (which would make the civilopedia incorrectly say that corporatist gives a 125% subsidy, instead of 25%), and maintanance costs of corporations need to be decreased by a HUGE amount (I am thinking about having a 75% reduction in maintanance costs, although 50% might be reasonable)

Could you possibly Upload this as a Modmod for AND? Zipped or rar'ed files to drop in and overwrite what needs to be changed?

There was something that always bugged me about Corps (but couldn't put my finger on) and caused me to stop using the Civics that catered to them, plus not building any in game either. This "could" allow me to use that part of the Mod again.

Give it a thought please.

JosEPh

digitCruncher
Mar 05, 2011, 04:33 PM
I will, but I think that the bug-fix I made doesn't do *everything*

Firstly, I need to fix the (slightly) annoying Civilopedia entries, and then I have to confirm that the AI doesn't incorrectly weight thier civics and go nuts (or never touch) civics like corporatist, which now appear to have a 125% subsidy.

Finally, the far more pressing concern, is the natural spread of corporations. Specifically, despite running a (true) 35% subsidy, the number of corporations that were in my nation was surprisingly small, which implies that the spread of corporation code is also slightly odd, so I need to do some python crawling to try and find where the code that says *spread the corporations around automatically* is hidden. Any tips?

Attached are the two XML files. Backup the existing files, and put them in Civ IV/Beyond the Sword/Mods/Rise of Mankind-A New Dawn/Assets/XML/GameInfo

Note that the change in corporation info is *supposed* to halve the corporation maintanance. It doesn't, for some reason, but I will soon find out why...

I can't seem to upload the .zip file which stores both of them. It just says that the upload failed, with no other information. Sorry.

In addition, I cannot for the life of me work out WHERE the automatic corporation spreading code is. It must be in the ROM-AND/Assets folder somewhere, as far as I can work out, but I have searched every file with the letters "Co" in them (for corporation), but to no success...

BobTheBull
Mar 05, 2011, 07:31 PM
@DigitCruncher

Based on all my experiences fiddling with xml values, I think you have only scratched the surface of the subject. There are several, probably many, xml values that affect corporation maintenance/subsidy/levy. In order to properly evaluate the change you have made you must understand how all the other values interact and will have to do quite a bit of research to resolve this, as you pointed out in your last post. Note also they are surely in more than one xml file.

What you have done is get onto something which could help straighten out some of the problems with corporations. I don't think this is a bug, just a lack of full understanding of how all the code works. Also that the way the code works is maybe not really developed. I strongly encourage you to dig much deeper into this. As JosephII noted this has been a frustrating point in the game.

@AH

If you get lost at X% anything, why don't you just leave the subject to those who do? No need to tell everyone that.

AndarielHalo
Mar 05, 2011, 07:43 PM
@AH

If you get lost at X% anything, why don't you just leave the subject to those who do? No need to tell everyone that.



Maybe narcissism. Though usually by the time corporations emerge in games I play on Snail mode, the game is pretty much over, with the clear winner already decided and the game only continuing because of the need for Scientific/Cultural/Domination victory, or Mastery was accidentally enabled.

But now I understand the concept of levy/subsidy costs in-game. Exactly what this fix he talks about does... I only wish my games were at such positions that late in the game where a difference of a some percentage maintenance costs unreported/nonexistent are of such importance as to be modded.

draz
Mar 07, 2011, 04:46 PM
Heh the geothermal random event where you can buy electricity for the whole continent is insane! Playing on snail speed and Plastics (and thus the Three Gorges Dam) must've still been a 100 turns away had I beelined it.

Regarding the soundtrack - can I just delete the new tracks from Soundtrack without any harm? Don't really like the new industrial era tracks.

Edit: Just got this too, should I be worried? http://i.imgur.com/VIcHb.jpg

Dancing Hoskuld
Mar 07, 2011, 05:07 PM
Edit: Just got this too, should I be worried? http://i.imgur.com/VIcHb.jpg

maybe. There should be more detail in the log file PythonErr.log.

ADP101
Mar 10, 2011, 01:27 PM
I'm trying to start a new game of RAND and it always crashes on the first turn, idk whats going on. I played one game before for a while, and it never crashed on me, but i got bored of it and decided to start a new game.

For my new game i turned off minor civs, and turned on fixed cultural borders and permanent alliances. Revolutions are disabled.

Heres a link to my save game on turn 0 http://www.mediafire.com/?1cauc5bucqsrb9h

JaminUp
Mar 11, 2011, 05:58 PM
I have fixed borders on, and whenever I claim territory for my civ, once I move off the tile it goes away. Any idea how to stop this from happening?

flitz
Mar 12, 2011, 04:50 AM
Isn't the whole point of the game, the entire reason for its existence, to be a historical simulator? Why bother using human civilizations and names and technologies instead of just "Kingdom of Bleen" and "Bleenian Empire" with the ability to research laser swords and walking on four legs in a pre-industrial era?

[...]

It's just too :):):):)ing much too :):):):)ing soon, and technologies are CONSTANTLY being researched CENTURIES before their real world equivalents!


I digged this up upon a forum search. Does anybody else still feel this way ? Because I found myself to get technologies of teh 20th century roughly one century too early, too.
(1.75, standard sized map - real world script, epic speed)

Wouldn't this be relatively easy to fix if say technologies are like 5-10 % ahead of time to just make them more expensive by 5-10% ?

I couldn't test this for other game speeds yet because my first and current AND game is taking tenth of hours already and is still far from finished :lol:

AndarielHalo
Mar 12, 2011, 08:22 AM
I digged this up upon a forum search. Does anybody else still feel this way ? Because I found myself to get technologies of teh 20th century roughly one century too early, too.
(1.75, standard sized map - real world script, epic speed)

Wouldn't this be relatively easy to fix if say technologies are like 5-10 % ahead of time to just make them more expensive by 5-10% ?

I couldn't test this for other game speeds yet because my first and current AND game is taking tenth of hours already and is still far from finished :lol:



This is why I only play on Snail speed. I had to adjust the game speed so it is a total mess of numbers, yet it's by far more accurate with regard to technologies than the default one. On default on Marathon mode, I was in the late-Medieval, early-Renaissance era in the 1990s AD. On default Snail mode, we had Industrial technologies insanely early, and atomic power by the late 1700s

draz
Mar 15, 2011, 12:08 PM
I'm still getting War Weariness with Fascist on? Some of the other civics I'm using do have +% to it tho, but they shouldn't have any effect if the government's fascist, right?

AndarielHalo
Mar 15, 2011, 12:10 PM
I'm still getting War Weariness with Fascist on? Some of the other civics I'm using do have +% to it tho, but they shouldn't have any effect if the government's fascist, right?



I've had this happen, too. Fascist SAYS that there's no :mad: weariness, but I think it either only applies to cities that are culturally yours. Or maybe it only does a -100% War Weariness.

flitz
Mar 15, 2011, 12:41 PM
This is why I only play on Snail speed. I had to adjust the game speed so it is a total mess of numbers, yet it's by far more accurate with regard to technologies than the default one. On default on Marathon mode, I was in the late-Medieval, early-Renaissance era in the 1990s AD. On default Snail mode, we had Industrial technologies insanely early, and atomic power by the late 1700s

I also have seen it the other way around.
Within the same game, I first saw some technologies appear very early but then again it took me until the late 20th century to get to early fighters and early tanks.
Maybe the fluctuations of my economy due to wars forced upon me messed with this.
But I could also imagine that the larger techtree is just very hard to balance because with that many techs it is much harder to predict how long it will take the civs to get through it.

generalstaff
Mar 15, 2011, 01:21 PM
It is the same issue with looking at the date when it comes to religion founding. It is best to take Afforess' advice and ignore the date altogether. The mod's tech tree is too big to have the "what if" factor and staying true to history.

Elana
Mar 15, 2011, 06:57 PM
Suggestion for the methane ice resource. Since it seems to always be in the ocean, and since 'methane ice' is, like, not on earth, (so far as we know), may i suggest we change the name to Hydrovent Lab. These would be labs at the bottom of the sea at the site of these undersea vents, where super hot water gushes into ocean floor, creating extreme enviornment, and extreme life forms. (for real in RL). Don't need to change name, or benefits, or image.

krokots
Mar 17, 2011, 05:51 AM
I have found a small glitch, hellenistic temple have weird shadow around
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ywixhc.png

flitz
Mar 17, 2011, 06:25 AM
Question:
Is it intentional that to build a Bakery a Granary (specifically) is required ? Later in the game the Granary is replaced by the Modern Granary and with only the Modern Granary in a city, a bakery cannot be built.
Seems (as the M.G. is just the upgrade to the G.) this is a bug/glitch/inconsistency, no?

krokots
Mar 17, 2011, 02:11 PM
Also, when i look into civilopedia in main menu, there are buildings (like apiary, or fire pit) that don't appear in the game (also they don't appear in in-game civiliopedia). Were they removed ?

flitz
Mar 17, 2011, 04:45 PM
Also, when i look into civilopedia in main menu, there are buildings (like apiary, or fire pit) that don't appear in the game (also they don't appear in in-game civiliopedia). Were they removed ?
I can answer that:
You have to enable the appropriate option before starting a custom game to get those buildings. I don't remember what it was called but it gives you a bunch of additional (somewhat lesser) buildings.

AndarielHalo
Mar 17, 2011, 06:22 PM
I have found a small glitch, hellenistic temple have weird shadow around
http://i56.tinypic.com/2ywixhc.png



I've always had that for as long as I've had AND. I doubt this is something that would be fixed any time soon, but it would seem to be an art problem

JaminUp
Mar 17, 2011, 09:00 PM
Can anyone help me with my claim territory problem?

Hydromancerx
Mar 18, 2011, 01:29 AM
Suggestion for the methane ice resource. Since it seems to always be in the ocean, and since 'methane ice' is, like, not on earth, (so far as we know), may i suggest we change the name to Hydrovent Lab. These would be labs at the bottom of the sea at the site of these undersea vents, where super hot water gushes into ocean floor, creating extreme enviornment, and extreme life forms. (for real in RL). Don't need to change name, or benefits, or image.

I believe the "methane ice represents Cold Seeps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_seep) which are abundant with methane (among other hydrocarbons).

code99
Mar 18, 2011, 07:44 AM
Hello everyone. Was wondering if someone else has the problem i do and if there is a solution.

My game CTDs every time for no apparent reason in industrial age at the same point (turn 34ish), i first experienced it on gigantic maps and thought that was the cause so i went for a huge map (where i played previously for over 400 turns, altho not in industrial age), used the ingame world editor to set me to industrial age and after 34 turns (i belive it was 34) it ctd again. I couldnt find the issue ...

Here is the rar with a couple of saves and Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn.ini
http://www.mediafire.com/?c7if2g5k4i5x524

In the rar there are 2 autosaves, 1 that was taked a few turns before the crash and another one the exact turn it crashed (infact if u load that save the game will crash when completing loading)
Also when loading the working save dont mind that the game sais im in Future era, i accidentally selected a tech from future era (in world editor)... and im sure thats not the problem.

If you need any other info about this please ask away, this crash is a game killer for me as i prefer playing from industrial to future era ...

**EDIT** I think i found the issue, i've disabled the random events and started a new game , did the same exact things like in the save i linked and i progressed past turn 34 , i will keep playing and see if it will crash again ... its good news but also bad as i now realised i wasted many hours of gameplay on another game (snail, start in ancient era, huge map and lots of civs and random events enabled), my whole goal was to reach modern era there but now i know i wont be able to do so as it will eventually crash in industrial ...

Thanks

Nookie12
Mar 18, 2011, 03:26 PM
Can't create any map on Giant and Gigantique:( I guess somone already told about this bug it but it's impossible to me to read over 200 pages :eek: so pls give me some solution.
p.s. does this problem is somehow depends on my comp? I got AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ 1GHz 2GB operative .

Dancing Hoskuld
Mar 18, 2011, 04:12 PM
Can't create any map on Giant and Gigantique:( I guess somone already told about this bug it but it's impossible to me to read over 200 pages :eek: so pls give me some solution.
p.s. does this problem is somehow depends on my comp? I got AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core Processor 4400+ 1GHz 2GB operative .

RoM:AND is just too big to play on that size map. The best I have been able to do is Huge.

glm94
Mar 18, 2011, 06:56 PM
I found out that if I remove the CvGameCore.dll file the mod loads just fine, but without the civopedia, options or the interface loading/responding. Any advice or is it just Vista deciding it deosn't want to work with the file in.

Afforess
Mar 19, 2011, 01:02 AM
I found out that if I remove the CvGameCore.dll file the mod loads just fine, but without the civopedia, options or the interface loading/responding. Any advice or is it just Vista deciding it deosn't want to work with the file in.

Don't do that. CvGameCore is required for the mod to use any of the custom features, and custom game options. Removing such a core file completely breaks the mod.

krokots
Mar 19, 2011, 03:19 AM
I can answer that:
You have to enable the appropriate option before starting a custom game to get those buildings. I don't remember what it was called but it gives you a bunch of additional (somewhat lesser) buildings.

Thanks, i found it earlier but still thanks.

BTW is national wonder limit 5 per city ? I think it was 3 in normal Civ, but i can't remember.

Also - Iron Frigates doesn't have attack animation but you probably know

glm94
Mar 19, 2011, 12:43 PM
Don't do that. CvGameCore is required for the mod to use any of the custom features, and custom game options. Removing such a core file completely breaks the mod.

Yes I realise that. My friend and I were desperately trying to get AND to work and one of the faulty module is the CvGameCore, so do I need to redownload? Before RoM 2.71 worked but then I had to reinstall my operating system. After that RoM 2.71 stops working and the game would crash, same with AND.

krokots
Mar 20, 2011, 01:00 PM
Question - does regulated economy meant not to give 1 C bonus from towns? Because it give from cottages-villages, but not towns, and it was bit strange to me.

edited - it was regulated, not planned

glm94
Mar 20, 2011, 05:59 PM
OK, disregard me and my troubleshoot questions. My new computer runs AND perfectly. BTW what happened to vertical farms and weren't there supposed to be dark ages as well?

lobosan
Mar 23, 2011, 01:18 PM
FYI: I can't see the install path selection in the "Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn 1.75.exe" installer. It might be that UI window is too small and I can't resize it. Windows 7 Pro, 64bit - I have not increased the system's font size.

Edit: The patch installer works fine but some text in the full installer seems to crowd out the install path widget.

JosEPh_II
Mar 24, 2011, 10:38 AM
Try a lower monitor resolution.

JosEPh

lobosan
Mar 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
Try a lower monitor resolution.

JosEPh

I am not sure your comment was meant for my post but lowering the resolution didn't change the situation.
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4206/romandinstallerbug.jpg

elderotter
Mar 24, 2011, 08:07 PM
I hope this works - screenshot of the latest version of Rom a new Dawn. Got the Great Wall but it encircled a 1 square plot - not sure if barbs can come into my kingdom with this oddity in the exact center. Never saw this before.
285585

Dancing Hoskuld
Mar 24, 2011, 10:01 PM
I hope this works - screenshot of the latest version of Rom a new Dawn. Got the Great Wall but it encircled a 1 square plot - not sure if barbs can come into my kingdom with this oddity in the exact center. Never saw this before.


Just graphics to indicate that you have the great wall. I would say that most of your boarders are coast. I have had similar, but around a 4 square plot that was not in my cultural borders.

elderotter
Mar 24, 2011, 11:15 PM
Just graphics to indicate that you have the great wall. I would say that most of your boarders are coast. I have had similar, but around a 4 square plot that was not in my cultural borders.
ok, thanks. No barbarians have come near my land borders soI guess I am ok. Sea invasions are constant though.

Arakhor
Mar 25, 2011, 08:15 AM
You can always go into the World Builder the turn before the Great Wall is built and carefully paint in culture to smooth out your borders and eliminate oddities like that. The culture will then vanish in the next turn, but not before the Great Wall has been according to your edited borders.

Czacki
Mar 28, 2011, 12:34 PM
hey:) long time no see. Has any of the problems I pointed out with RoM:AND were fixed lately? Here's the quick reminder:

There are many issues with this great mod.

1. Withdraw chance

Already made a thread about it. Once you reach 100% (which is uber easy!), you can't lose the unit. It it has a small-to-none chance of victory, whenever it withdraws it will be considered as epic victory in the game, and the unit will receive max exp from battle (6). If you have leadership from warlord, it will get 12 exp for basically nothing that can be repeated every turn, leading to 200-300 exp in a VERY short time. While I loved the withdrawal feature, the fact it gave exp in vanilla BTS and always had a horse archer warlord with tactics+flanking to gain massive exp in every battle with minimum risk, +12 exp per withdraw is too much, and 100% chance of withdrawing is too powerful, especially with withdraw-on-defense feature because that essentialy is immortality.

The dynamic exp system was meant to prevent abuse, but actually it's WAY more abusive than the Vanilla BTS exp system. Maybe withdraw should grant a minimal bonus only? +0.25 exp and that's it? I find it hard to like that solution though, I would never reach the high tiers with my Warlord units if they were receiving +0.5 exp per battle... :/

I've conquered whole empires with two warlord units + great commander because they couldn't be killed, and with all heaing promotions AND medic they regenerated their health super fast. It was fun for the first time, but with third empire falling to two units, I got bored. What's the point of building units if you have immortal one that kills everything?

I suggest putting a global cap at withdraw chance at 90 or 95%. Reducing the bonuses to withdraw great commanders grant would also be fun. At fourth level all armies have +60% withdraw chance! Isn't this a bit too big? 10-20-30-40% would be already a huge bonus... Right now it takes any unit with withdraw chance AND access to flanking to immortality instantly. I recommend the numbers that the great commander grants to be greatly lowered - maybe even to 5-10-15-20? Or 10-15-20-25? +25% withdraw chance is a lot already with units that have access to flanking and natural withdraw chance, like all cavalry/helicopter units.

2. Upgrades of some buildings actually downgrade their usefulness

The most notorious example is Grocer and Supermarket. The Grocer adds +25% :gold: and a LOT of :commerce: for access to certain resources. You lose ALL of that when "upgrading" to supermarket, and get what... a bit of :health: ? Why would you want that?

Either the upgrades should carry out ALL of the replaced building's bonuses, or they shouldn't be replacing them!

3. Future tech upgrades not really well thought

A few complaints - The archer, riflemen, mech.infarty and all of that have one similar bonus - they are good at defending cities. And they get replaced by Tesla infantry that sucks against wheeled/tracked units (which will probably be your main enemy at that age) and helicopters (which are great units). The idea was that the archer line is good for defense, and tesla units are more of a offensive unit (100% collateral damage to 10 units!) rather than defensive. Which is weird.

Why can't plasma armors upgrade to Dreadnought Armor? Seeing that Drednaught armor has no drawbacks (compared to Plasma Armor) and should be a natural replacement...

Why isn't there a natural progression for artillery units? NLOS cannon is the last artillery unit. Sure, there are others doing collateral damage - like that siege droid with 170 :strength: - but why can't they be an upgrade? It's more logical than cavalry upgrading to tanks, anyway.

4. Religion bonuses not mutually exclusive

Why is it possible to take ALL the religion-based upgrades? Most of the time I just get all religions first then just convert to allow my warlord to get another bonus. Shouldn't it be like that: you pick one religion-based promotion, say crusader, and the rest becomes unavailable. Because the unit being a crusader and muslim's equivalent at the same TIME is pretty illogical.

Religion-granted wonders don't stop working when you convert! You only lose their :) bonus, the rest remains. In a Islamic country, would you expect a wonder like King Richards Crusade to work? Not to mention that some are definitively bigger than others (see Buddhism wonders - Palace of Potala: +50% :science:, +20% :gold, +20% :food: stored after growth and +20% :culture:, never becoming obsolete? That's like the best "commerce" wonder there is for a cottage economy! Compared to, say, Apadama Palace of Zoroastrianism.. lower maintenance and a free promotion? nice, but doesn't even compare.)

So, the player isn't rewarded for getting a religion... he's awarded for getting all of them since he's pretty much the only one who can gain access to powerful wonders and promotions thanks to it...

It worked better in Vanilla Civ4: BTS, imho. I absolutely love the new bonuses of religions, but they ought to be mutually exclusive. (Afaik a wonder like Palace of Potala keeps working after you convert to a different religion, you just lose the ":) bonus if Buddhism is state religion"... while logically it should cease giving bonuses)

So, a better balance of bonuses for religions and mutual exclusiveness of them would be a step in right direction.

5. Too much :gold:, :food: and :health:

The cities grow large even if poorly placed, the :yuck: is never an issue because there are millions of ways to increase :health: and each country is swimming in :gold: even when REXing at 95% :science: rate. I literally swam in gold in this game. I expanded to 10 cities quickly and got +5 :gold: at 95% rate very early. When I turned it to 90%, I got +23 :gold: per turn! It's too easy to get rich, and REXing is not punished at all.


6. AI is still too weak...

Defends cities with 1-2 stacks, even Capital at wartime - BTS civ would have like 10 units there! Here I land on AI's territory, destroy 4 cities without any resistance, and reach capitol guarded by a single longbowman... after 20 turns or so.

And it wasn't a pea-sized civ, it was 2nd Civ on the scoreboard!

Where's the resistance? I know my warlord unit would trample the down even if there was 10 longbowmen there, but the AI doesn't even try.



There are many other issues but I think those should really be fixed soon :) The mod has incredible potential... but is plagued by those problems right now.

Cheers!

I'd like to play AND one day without those game breaking issues, any progress? ^^

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Mar 28, 2011, 09:18 PM
There is still a Espionage bug, maybe its Ubuntu, I found an earlier posting on this error.

06 August 2010 by Arroccali (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9453379&postcount=3511)

I get the same error today with RAND 1.75 on Ubuntu 10.04.2

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/Religiousspyingoverboard.png


That's 0.6 BILLION SPY POINTS. A tad overdone I think.

Espionage Screen, only allocates the normal amount generated by your cities, but overall, I have a balance of Billions.

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Mar 28, 2011, 10:36 PM
I noticed in the 1.76 thread, someone mentioned that the full of resources map is out dated.

I find that some others suffer the same problem. Here's the Pythonerr.log copied as it just repeats these entries.

ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Planet_Generator_0_68.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Lows_Random_Maps_3_0.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Full_of_Resources_3_00.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Smart_Map.py
ERR: Call function getModPath failed. Can't find module Ring_World.py

Comment on map error by Enkidu Warrior (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10166587&postcount=83)

No I don't understand what it means, but going on the post of them being outdated?? maybe that's it.

Epic Flan
Mar 30, 2011, 07:29 AM
I have a problem; for some reason whenever I try to load the mod it gets stuck on 'loading XML (uncached)' for about 20 seconds, and then Vista says the program has stopped working and must close down. The basic Rise of Mankind package works fine too. I had no problems installing, but I have noticed that it takes ages to even start loading. My computer doesn't have bad specs though, it has 2GB RAM, 64 bits, and a nVidia 9500 series graphics card. To put it into perspective, Civ 5 runs just fine on fairly high level graphics...

Any ideas why I can't load the mod?

glm94
Mar 30, 2011, 06:02 PM
*Sigh* Okay so perfectly wasn't the best word.But at least only have two problems, one being the abandon city mod not working. The second one being the mod crashes around 1400ad; usually before rifling. So what do I need to do to help fix my problems?:sad:

Bugio
Mar 31, 2011, 11:18 AM
I've played my first game with this mod, and everything worked just fine.
I started the second one, and everything went crazy:

first a lot of XML errors about leaderheads not loading properly;
then i selected Capac as leader and i ended up with another incan leader (after closing all the xml errors);
then ALL the religions was founded on first turn (!!!), had some major graphic / text glitches aswell, and then it finally crashed.

I also cleared game cache but didn't help. It seems to work fine if i load my previous game, though, so i doubt it's something related to the mod, but maybe some game cache stored somewhere that need to be deleted?

I will try to reinstall the mod later this evening and see if it helps, meanwhile any suggestion i might try?

Bugio
Apr 02, 2011, 09:15 AM
The problem is still there even after numerous installs. I managed to start another game, but forgot to set difficulty properly, so i tried again and it went crazy again. Never been able to start another game since.

Funny thing my old savegame still works fine... any suggestion? Would really love be able to play it. Maybe removing the extra civs? How can i do that?

rtt4a
Apr 02, 2011, 11:33 AM
Bugio, delete custom leaderheads folder in modules folder. Are you trying to play some scenario..?

vamperium
Apr 03, 2011, 08:38 AM
I have a CTD that I am encountering that I never have before (though I never played deep into the late game.) Whenever a city finishes it's production and it prompts you to choose a new one, it crashed on selection. I've tried different items, and tried going in to the city screen and it still crashes. This is also the second different game that I've had this. I'll upload my save if anyone wants to take a look.

Terxpahseyton
Apr 05, 2011, 05:31 AM
XML-Error:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=286694&stc=1&d=1302003039

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Apr 05, 2011, 07:56 AM
Assuming this is still in use, I've made a list of Bugs I've noticed so far.

1) Links from Civopedia pages don't work at all
2) Barbs aren't attacking workers off of boats (not sure if feature or not)
3) Multiple groups chopping, won't pre chop, they'll just chop the forest or build improvement, without pausing to ask.
4) Sentry isn't awaking Melee units.
5) Guilds and I assume Corps, can spread overseas BEFORE Astronomy has even been discovered by ANY PLAYER, Auto founding enabled.
6) Naming of Hittite is incorrect in Adjective, its not a Caribbean Nation, but one in the Anatolia region.
7) In Civopedia, a thier instead of their. Probably more, can't remember what page.
8) State Church gives a Ridiculous amount of Espionage points, once you control a holy city, in your religion. State religion bug (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10347549&postcount=4647)
9) Maps are outdated. Out dated maps (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10347687&postcount=4648)

Bugio
Apr 05, 2011, 09:49 AM
Bugio, delete custom leaderheads folder in modules folder. Are you trying to play some scenario..?

Thanks, that worked. Not sure why this is happening but can live with less civs no problem.

Afforess
Apr 07, 2011, 10:26 PM
I'm officially confirming the Inquisitor bug. I may release a patch D to resolve the issue.

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Apr 08, 2011, 09:16 AM
Ty for that, I'm not dreaming. Just :pissed: at that.

Was it what I said?? that you need <0 and >67% at the same time..lol

Apart from that, which also appears in ROM, unless you need some civic's combination, such as Liberalism (haven't gotten that far as yet in current game)

Yeah patch D...I love those letters....

JosEPh_II
Apr 08, 2011, 04:57 PM
I'm officially confirming the Inquisitor bug. I may release a patch D to resolve the issue.

Great! Then I can get reacquainted with 1.75. ;)

JosEPh :)

nathan mcduck
Apr 12, 2011, 10:44 AM
So I upgraded my PC to 8GB RAM and for the first time I can play this Mod on gigantic maps all the way to the end. YAY!

But this made me realise that all civics that are supposed to add specialists are bugged.
For example technocracy, instead of giving +1 scientist/engineer it sets the amount of free scientists/engineers to 1 in every city. Since at this point most of my cities have 2 free engineers anyway (industrial park and design studio) I actually lose one engineer.
Interstingly if I after changing to technocracy destroy an industrial park or a design studio I lose that last engineer.

On a somewhat related note: Derivatives does not give a free merchant.

AndarielHalo
Apr 12, 2011, 01:14 PM
A lot of the civics I've found to be badly flawed, if not in terms of incorrect reporting of their effects, then in just being... utterly useless.


For example; while Tribalism and Despotism are quite necessary in the early game due to being the only option, or with Despotism having lower unhappiness, their special buildings don't come around until FAR LATER in the game, and the civics have virtually zero benefit once you're past the Medieval Era.


Nobility almost always ends up coming AFTER Patrician, rendering it completely useless.


Senate is GREAT for military production and food from trade routes, but the benefits aren't enough to sustain it if you have severe problems with unhappiness or another option becomes available (like Bureaucracy or President)



Parliament is another "Do not use, ever" options. Pointlessly causes +2 unhappiness in your largest cities, along with +25% War weariness, and the only real benefit is a slight increase in gold... in your capital only. Same reason I never touch vassalage; it only gives benefits to my capital, and by the time these options even become available, my capital is already a monetary/industrial powerhouse 90% of the time, and all my other cities are in desperate need of catching up.


Federal is a definite "Do not ever touch, ever". +100% war weariness, unhappiness for every military unit in a city, heavy unhappiness due from tax rate, a 15% DROP in productivity, and NO special building? Why the hell does ANY civilization pick this civic?


Democracy at least has the benefit of District Offices, but given the up nature of this mod, where 90% of EVERY building that's SUPPOSED to DECREASE maintenance reports an Actual of NEGATIVE gold income, Democracy is pretty much a bane to ANY effective civilization that is attempting to NOT be completely wiped out when the moronic AI decides it wants to go to war with you because... well because you looked at it funny way back when you first met 1,300 years ago.


This is a SEVERE issue in this mod which NEVER occurred for me in the base game; the AI has become like that in "Total War" games---it is only out to declare war on everyone in its path, and it doesn't need a damn good reason to turn on someone it has Free Trade agreements and is on FRIENDLY terms with. Doesn't even matter a damn if you have an army twice the size of theirs, and production capabilities 60 times theirs, and if they are a "Federated Nation of ____" meaning they get +100% WAR WEARINESS, then they freak out and are willing to talk when you take one of their cities, and yet the only terms they'll accept is if YOU GIVE THEM YOUR SECONDARY CAPITAL!


This is beyond ridiculous. Isn't the whole purpose of this supposed to test how civilizations fare with different ideologies/policies, and how best (or worst) they can utilize the policies under certain situations? Like how would Mao's "Great Leap Forward" have operated if they had a huge food surplus and the technology to better keep track of their people and industry?


Instead, we find that some civic choices give huge benefits and bonuses with very little drawback (such as Fascist) and some civic choices that are actually FAVORABLE to the people and absolutely prolific in our day and age (such as Democracy) actually have no major benefits, and HUGE long-term deficits. If War Weariness worked in the real world the way it did in this game, the United States of America would have completely and utterly collapsed due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Completely and utterly. Every time I play a game as a Democratic nation, get out of fighting a war, and get right into fighting a JUSTIFIED WAR OF DEFENSE, a significant portion of my cities go STRAIGHT to HUGE war weariness where people are STARVING and the food levels drop by 20% each turn.


What this mod has taught me is that the best civilizations in the world have these civics:


Fascist
President
Nationalist/Marxist/Liberal
Regulated
Volunteer Army
Free Church/Secular
Superhuman/Socialized/Corporate




This is beyond ridiculous. The ONLY balanced civics in this mod are Economy and Welfare, and to a very small degree, Religion.

Afforess
Apr 12, 2011, 09:51 PM
What this mod has taught me is that the best civilizations in the world have these civics:


Fascist
President
Nationalist/Marxist/Liberal
Regulated
Volunteer Army
Free Church/Secular
Superhuman/Socialized/Corporate



Funny. Most Real world Civilizations ARE using those ideologies. ;)

AndarielHalo
Apr 12, 2011, 09:52 PM
Funny. Most Real world Civilizations ARE using those ideologies. ;)


Most of those nations are warzones, third-world-hellholes, suffering crippling poverty, or dangerously unstable

Afforess
Apr 13, 2011, 03:35 PM
Most of those nations are warzones, third-world-hellholes, suffering crippling poverty, or dangerously unstable

Yep. So the civics are perfectly realistic. ;)

I'm just kidding - I realize there are balance issues yet.

robfbms
Apr 15, 2011, 07:06 PM
ROM-AND does not have an own game start screen, using the Warlords screen instead. Is this a bug or my mod installation was a fail?

rtt4a
Apr 16, 2011, 05:05 AM
This is just observation from my last game, but it seems a bit strange..

I launched BBM and plague bringer at same turn and after that i noticed several "radioactive dust fills the skies.." aka nuclear winters. Did some testing and launching BBM AND plague bringer seems to causing nuclear winter havoc, after launching the missiles about 15-20 fallout titles appeared in 15 turns;) This was standard size map.

Seems odd because both missiles are biological weapons not nuclear..

Civ Fuhrer? Is this meant this way..?

JosEPh_II
Apr 16, 2011, 09:11 AM
ROM-AND does not have an own game start screen, using the Warlords screen instead. Is this a bug or my mod installation was a fail?

Probably neither.

When you start BtS hit the Advanced Button, next screen pops up, click the Options. A pop up appears, select the Graphics tab, at bottom of Graphics is a Drop down menu for starting screen select BtS or BtS Classical.

Warlords is also there and was somehow activated.

This should help.

JosEPh :)

AndarielHalo
Apr 16, 2011, 10:07 AM
This is just observation from my last game, but it seems a bit strange..

I launched BBM and plague bringer at same turn and after that i noticed several "radioactive dust fills the skies.." aka nuclear winters. Did some testing and launching BBM AND plague bringer seems to causing nuclear winter havoc, after launching the missiles about 15-20 fallout titles appeared in 15 turns;) This was standard size map.

Seems odd because both missiles are biological weapons not nuclear..

Civ Fuhrer? Is this meant this way..?



I made the same complaint several months ago, though I'd hardly remember if the weapons I launched were mostly biological or mostly nuclear. The Great Amazon Empire tends to be forgetful that time of the month BAD!


Though the amount of WMD's I used was nowhere near the amount used in reality (mostly in testing), and yet every turn for the next 200 years, Radioactive fallout was falling in up to 10 spaces every turn.


The problem is that the Fallout frequency is way too high in one of the XML files.

nabeshiniii
Apr 16, 2011, 10:32 AM
Hey there, I've installed 3.19 patch for BtS and both the AND 1.75+patch C. However, every time I try to load the mod it crashes while loading. It crashes while trying to Init XML. I've tried with just 1.75 with no patch and the same thing happens. Can you help? I'm on Win7 (4Gb RAM) with Civ4 Complete. I can run RoM fine but AND is giving me problems.

EDIT: Never mind. I've tried a few combinations and found that it was the menu skin selection during the installation of the main AND that was causing the problems. It's loads fine now.

Flay
Apr 17, 2011, 02:00 AM
I just finished a game at EMperor difficulty. I usualy leave the AIs alone for a wild for them to grow. I was running a good game at 3rd-4th place with 3rd to 5th very close and 1st and 2nd way ahead (30% more points). I hade some minor war, than decide to conquer my continent (playing in archipelagos, continent).
My chose of civic are usualy:
Monarchy -> Democracy
Senat -> Parlement
Proletariat -> Liberal
monetary system -> Free Market
Pacifist
Profet -> free church
Church . . .

Than the 2 biggest civ declared war on me, and I was suffering from war wearness a lot.
For the first time ever I tried Facist + M.A.D.
I do not know wich of thos or if it is both combined, but this was a killer. I litteraly anihited the best of the 2 taking over is all continent (16 citys), and I was way leading with now over 4000 point when number 2 was under 1700.

I think those civic are maybe a bit over powered. Facist should give more negativ. maybe facist should give negative relation point with nonfacist civ every turn or so.

rtt4a
Apr 17, 2011, 03:09 PM
I made the same complaint several months ago, though I'd hardly remember if the weapons I launched were mostly biological or mostly nuclear. The Great Amazon Empire tends to be forgetful that time of the month BAD!


Though the amount of WMD's I used was nowhere near the amount used in reality (mostly in testing), and yet every turn for the next 200 years, Radioactive fallout was falling in up to 10 spaces every turn.


The problem is that the Fallout frequency is way too high in one of the XML files.

Do you know which xml tag that frequency coul be changed? IMO Fallouts are part of global warming mechanism and i think biological weapons should not have any effect on that. If you know how to change that please tell

youmakemefart
Apr 18, 2011, 04:28 AM
Ok, this is partly a repost from another thread:

1) the mod is beyond awsome. I salute you for your hard work.

2) Things I would change if I could:
a) The AI has never attacked me once I was the strongest fraction. So once you are on top you have practically won.
b) the AI tends to be weaker than in BTS vanilla - while in BTS he attacks you with superstacks - in AND he is much too managable
c) I don't know how it happens but a lot of buildings actually REDUCE what they should be increasing. e.g. schools etc.
d) Once you accept them there is no way of every getting rid of vassal states... (not a AND problem but rather civ in general)
e) probably the most important: There should be a HUGE difference between cities having electricity and not. Bonuses of virtually ALL buildings should skyrocket. At the moment you can often just wait until you have the hoover dam or fusion, because it hardly makes a difference. historically that is of course completely wrong. If you change one thing, please change this.
f) Tanks should get a lot weaker attacking cities. especcially 20th century ones.
g) There is a graphics glitch - your unique-graphic units constantly turn vanilla and back.
h) A few random event suggestions:

- If you have the SETI Program:
"Extraterrestrial contact" - your scientists have recieved a signal which is without doubt from an extraterrestrial source
o) Keep it secret. We dont want the public to panic or our rivals to profit from this discovery. Learn what you can. (SETI-Program +10% research, recieve up to 3 free techs, 25% of -10 relationship with all other civs)
o) Let the information slowly go public. Let foreign scientists somewhat participate, but make sure we dominate all related research. (SETI-Program +25% research, all civs recieve up to 5 free techs.)
o) Tell the world and make all information public to scientists worldwide! This is the start of a new era for mankind! (SETI-Program +25% research, +20% research in all civs cities, all civs recieve up to 10 free techs, +5 relationship with other civs, all civs recieve golden age)

- "pandemic" - A unknown disease is killing thousands! (up to -3 population in all cities)

- If you have discovered Mass Media:
"Healthy school foods" - A well known TV chef is campaigning for healthier school food
o) And who will pay for all this?
o) Give him a little funding and implement his ideas on a small scale (Cost: 500$ Schools: +1 health, +1 happiness)
o) Make him the posterboy for a nationwide campaign for healthier school foods and nutrition education! (Cost: 1500$ Schools +5% maintenance, +3 health, +2 happiness)


I would love feedback on these ideas from anyone, as well as suggestions how to implement htem!

Stormwind
Apr 18, 2011, 05:31 AM
g) There is a graphics glitch - your unique-graphic units constantly turn vanilla and back.

This can be corrected by turning on "Unit Animations" in the graphic options.

Flay
Apr 18, 2011, 12:13 PM
I like the pandemic, but it should be more brutal . . . much more brutal.
The extraterrestrial thing is funny as well.
I would like some really big effect on global warming as well . . .

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 18, 2011, 06:43 PM
I like the pandemic, but it should be more brutal . . . much more brutal.
The extraterrestrial thing is funny as well.
I would like some really big effect on global warming as well . . .

I liked smallpox in a different mod. It reduced the population in each city to the square root of its current population and spread like wild fire. Interestingly enough 10-30 turns latter it was as if it never happened since your infrastructure was still there and food production soon got the population back to where it was.

youmakemefart
Apr 19, 2011, 01:30 AM
This can be corrected by turning on "Unit Animations" in the graphic options.

Thank you, I'll try that!

youmakemefart
Apr 19, 2011, 01:34 AM
I guess the most important things would be

A) get the AI to produce more military units

B) to make sure it really makes a difference if a civ has electricity or not....

in a nutshall these would be my most important points....
if any of the other suggestions or random events could be considered that would be awsome beyond awsome...

littledude072
Apr 21, 2011, 10:45 AM
yeah sorry for bothering, i cant seem to find A NEW DAWN.LOG on my computer so ill just spill it out

RAND just randomly crash when i scroll around the map
ive done that CFF EXPLORER and CMD thing so its not a MAF error
BTW, any other patches for RAND? i only have the 1.75A

StMikael
Apr 21, 2011, 11:02 AM
But is anyone doing anything about these issues, or is the mod - so to speak - dead?

Which is a shame, because I'll take A New Dawn over Civ 5 any day of the week.

Psyringe
Apr 21, 2011, 11:06 AM
RAND just randomly crash when i scroll around the map
ive done that CFF EXPLORER and CMD thing so its not a MAF error
BTW, any other patches for RAND? i only have the 1.75A

I'm not sure, but if by "CFF EXPLORER and CMD thing" you mean making the programm large address aware, i.e. enabling the program to address memory above 2GB, then ...

- you don't need to do that, because CFF explorer only sets a flag which is already set in the latest Civ4:BtS executable

- I assume you also used the /3GB switch when booting up Windows XP, or use a 64 bit operating system in the first place, because otherwise your change won't have any useful effect

- you still can have MAFs, it depends on map size and number of civilizations (though they should be way less frequent if you did everything right)

Regarding other patches, check this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9414102&postcount=5). :)

Flay
Apr 21, 2011, 11:25 AM
The end of May, the Lord will be back at the end of May . . .

JosEPh_II
Apr 21, 2011, 05:11 PM
yeah sorry for bothering, i cant seem to find A NEW DAWN.LOG on my computer so ill just spill it out

RAND just randomly crash when i scroll around the map
ive done that CFF EXPLORER and CMD thing so its not a MAF error
BTW, any other patches for RAND? i only have the 1.75A
Yes you Need patch C.

Link . https://sourceforge.net/projects/anewdawn/files/A%20New%20Dawn%201.75C%20Patch.exe/download

JosEPh

NCC1017spock
Apr 25, 2011, 04:46 PM
Well, im not sure what else to say, I went from the errors I was having in my thread "HELP" to - now I cant get any New Dawn Features to work... the ROM mod works fine, but non of the New Dawn features are active or working, or usable, its like im just playing ROM... im not sure whats going on, ive installed and reinstalled it many times by now...

Stormwind
Apr 25, 2011, 05:04 PM
Don't install AND 1.75 on top of ROM, AND 1.75 is a standalone mod.

NCC1017spock
Apr 25, 2011, 05:10 PM
Don't install AND 1.75 on top of ROM, AND 1.75 is a standalone mod.

hmm, ill try again? Im pretty sure I tired that once too, and either again nothing worked, or same issues stated in my thread. :( but ill try again!

NCC1017spock
Apr 25, 2011, 05:25 PM
still no luck :(

EDIT: Its almost like New Dawn is disabling a huge number of units? Like 1/4 of them, most of them being the more modern age units?

Flay
Apr 28, 2011, 10:51 AM
This is how it should look like in your Mods folder in beyond the sword.
If it doesn't look like this you intalled wrong.

NCC1017spock
Apr 28, 2011, 01:11 PM
This is how it should look like in your Mods folder in beyond the sword.
If it doesn't look like this you intalled wrong.

Yep it looks just like that :(

MasterJoKeR
Apr 28, 2011, 08:35 PM
Has the Religon bugs been fixed?

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 28, 2011, 09:02 PM
Has the Religon bugs been fixed?

Which religion? What bugs?

MasterJoKeR
Apr 28, 2011, 09:10 PM
Which religion? What bugs?

The RevDCM Religion option bugs.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 28, 2011, 09:11 PM
Not until the next release.

MasterJoKeR
Apr 28, 2011, 09:12 PM
Which one:1.76 or 1.75 Patch D?

Istanbul_Kop
Apr 29, 2011, 05:32 AM
I get this error when I click the Nuke button (at top left) or when I press CNTRL+N...


Don't really know what it is. Also, what does CNTRL+N do?

http://i55.tinypic.com/2a5mq1.jpg

littledude072
Apr 29, 2011, 12:02 PM
theres a patch D?
is the 1.76 version going to come out?

quick question, can i merge the UNforces mod into RAND 1.75 instead of downloading ROM?

JosEPh_II
Apr 29, 2011, 12:47 PM
Since RAND 1.75c is a Standalone Mod now RoM is no longer a requirement.

So, if you have the modding skills, go for it and see what shakes. :)

JosEPh

MasterJoKeR
Apr 30, 2011, 12:48 PM
How do I load a Modern-Era savegame on a huge map with 8 civs without problem?

littledude072
Apr 30, 2011, 07:14 PM
thanks for the replys
anyone play with the XUPT thing?
can you guys give me a good number? 5 seems to be too low
(amazed the AI can handle it pretty well)

NCC1017spock
May 01, 2011, 04:08 PM
no one knows why all the special units are disabled in the mod for my PC? Please help guys :(

JosEPh_II
May 01, 2011, 09:04 PM
In Version 1.75c, iirc, Aforress pared down many things including units to reduce size and turn times.

If the Mod plays from a Custom game start, Ancient Era, then I'm not sure what you deem to be the problem.

Have you removed ALL other versions of RoM and AND from your BtS/Mods folder just to be sure you are not getting Cache problems from previously played RoM/AND mods. Also when you load the Mod are you holding down the Shift key to clear the cache?

A step by step process of how you have installed and set up to play would help in determining what "might" be you cause for concern over missing Modern Era units.

All I can think of right now.

JosEPh :)

Michail
May 04, 2011, 02:17 AM
Hello. I have a strange situation to which I can not find answer.

I can not claim territory, because I don't have appropriatte button at any unit. I've got Monarchy, Vassalage selected. From behaviour of game, it looks like I don't have FixBorders in RAND at all.

Civ Version 319
Save version 302
Build version 3.1.9.0
RoM - AND 1.75C (update in game says lastest version)

Any ideas?

Thx.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 04, 2011, 06:52 AM
Hello. I have a strange situation to which I can not find answer.

I can not claim territory, because I don't have appropriatte button at any unit. I've got Monarchy, Vassalage selected. From behaviour of game, it looks like I don't have FixBorders in RAND at all.

Civ Version 319
Save version 302
Build version 3.1.9.0
RoM - AND 1.75C (update in game says lastest version)

Any ideas?

Thx.

Fixed boarders is a game option. I think it is off by default. Did you turn it on?

NCC1017spock
May 05, 2011, 03:42 PM
In Version 1.75c, iirc, Aforress pared down many things including units to reduce size and turn times.

If the Mod plays from a Custom game start, Ancient Era, then I'm not sure what you deem to be the problem.

Have you removed ALL other versions of RoM and AND from your BtS/Mods folder just to be sure you are not getting Cache problems from previously played RoM/AND mods. Also when you load the Mod are you holding down the Shift key to clear the cache?

A step by step process of how you have installed and set up to play would help in determining what "might" be you cause for concern over missing Modern Era units.

All I can think of right now.

JosEPh :)

I have no other versions and I followed the instructions I was given, and I installed it just like I would any other mod. And it does look right in the folder, still no luck? And alot of the game options dont work either (the check boxes of things to enable/disable when sitting up a match)

JosEPh_II
May 05, 2011, 04:42 PM
Does your OS require a UAC? If so, disable it.

Are you using a version of Civ IV like Complete? There have been reported problems with the Complete version.

Is your version a retail Box set of CDs/DVDs or did you get a Digital D/L version?
If a Digital D/l is used the Digital provider's installation program rearranges the "files" of the game and can cause untold weirdness when trying to add a Mod. Or even an Official patch if it doesn't come through their Digital service.

These are some possibilities, and the tough ones to fix. If they can be at all.

Didn't you re-D/L the Mod recently, along with a fresh d/l of Patch C?

JosEPh

Flay
May 07, 2011, 09:16 AM
We are 6 playing with the complete version without issue.

JosEPh_II
May 07, 2011, 11:38 AM
That's Good news.

Of course I'd assume you all were using CD/dvds for you initial installation for compatibility?

JosEPh :)

littledude072
May 08, 2011, 11:44 AM
quick question
why is it when choose religion and limited religion are on i end up getting christianity?
sometimes i get something else
it seems random for no reason

JosEPh_II
May 08, 2011, 11:50 AM
What Civ do you choose to play as?

IIRC, the Civ you play as has a direct relation to Choose and Limited. It's been awhile since I've used either of those options, so I could be mistaken.

JosEPh :)

Navman
May 08, 2011, 09:49 PM
Hi All:
Can anyone advise how to make the diplomatic screen animations frozen in order to save video
mem. I get about 2/3 thru a game and start getting crashes.
Very nice mod. Brings new life to the game, but can never finish one due to crashes. Using the 3 Gb switch, windows xp(home) and a 1mb video card.
Thx.

littledude072
May 09, 2011, 06:00 AM
What Civ do you choose to play as?

IIRC, the Civ you play as has a direct relation to Choose and Limited. It's been awhile since I've used either of those options, so I could be mistaken.

JosEPh :)

wow, different civs actually have different 'randoms'
last play through was america/washington/christianity
got any tips to straighten this out?

ichbinsehselber
May 09, 2011, 01:06 PM
Just installed 175C by:
moved away my previous rise of mankind folder
installed AND175
installed the C patch (A New Dawn 1.75C Patch.exe)
started BTS
loaded rise of mankind mod

It seemed to load correctly, but several options under "custom game" seem to be missing e.g.
start as minor is not available

Does anyone have an idea what I did wrong or what is the problem?

rtt4a
May 09, 2011, 01:50 PM
Hi All:
Can anyone advise how to make the diplomatic screen animations frozen in order to save video
mem. I get about 2/3 thru a game and start getting crashes.
Very nice mod. Brings new life to the game, but can never finish one due to crashes. Using the 3 Gb switch, windows xp(home) and a 1mb video card.
Thx.

Navman

Download regular rise of Mankind 2.92, in modules folder you can find Static folder. That should work with AND also..

JosEPh_II
May 09, 2011, 05:16 PM
wow, different civs actually have different 'randoms'
last play through was america/washington/christianity
got any tips to straighten this out?

Don't use Limited or Choose and then race to the religion you want. Seriously.

I always use Multiple Religions, so it then becomes a matter of which tech path I want to use early to get the religion I want. And yes, I usually found 3 or 4 religions. But that's my play style as I use all the religions I found and head for the Free Religion Civic. I use State Religion Civic Early game to spread my Main religion then spread the others as "needs" arise in different cities. But that's just how I play.

JosEPh :)

Navman
May 10, 2011, 04:53 PM
rtt4a:
Thx for your reply. Tried that. The animations are frozen for ROM but not AND.
Also tried copying the Static folder from ROM to the modules folder of AND and
that did not work either. Since AND is a stand alone, perhaps someone could explain
if something within AND itself needs to be set up or changed.

Thx.

JosEPh_II
May 10, 2011, 05:44 PM
Navman,
What about the Main BtS Options menu for Graphics? Have you tried reducing them to help delay the MAFs.

Also with XP home don't let Windows manage your memory. Use Custom settings or Performance settings instead of the checkbox that says "Let windows manage......". This is under Properties for My Computer. Also set your paging file to be "at least" 2048MB if you have 3GB of Ram or more. Been awhile since I had to recommend this. But it' what I had to go with my old XP Pro Computer that only had 2GB of ram to get RoM and early AMD to play thru to the game end.

JosEPh :)

Navman
May 10, 2011, 09:11 PM
JosEPh II:
Thank you for your suggestions. I had the graphics turned down to the lowest levels.
I have changed windows to the "performance" setting from "custom" and set the mem to 2048. The problem(s) usually relates to the ATI driver "ATI2CQAG.DLL" and one(1)
other. I have the latest drivers installed. I'm only playing with a total of four(4) civs
on a "huge" map.
Would still like to find a way to freeze the animations on the diplomacy sreen.

Thx.

rtt4a
May 11, 2011, 12:09 PM
rtt4a:
Thx for your reply. Tried that. The animations are frozen for ROM but not AND.
Also tried copying the Static folder from ROM to the modules folder of AND and
that did not work either. Since AND is a stand alone, perhaps someone could explain
if something within AND itself needs to be set up or changed.

Thx.

Navman

Did you add static in modular loading control xml..? If you did, try also deleting custom leader heads folder. I Have not tried static with AND my self..

JosEPh_II
May 11, 2011, 04:40 PM
@Navman
CTrl-Alt-O brings up the BUG Option screen. Under one or more of the many tabs is an option to stop Movie and Diplomacy animations, plus several other option to reduce Ram and CPU usage. Look thru it and you will find them.

With 4 Civs try the next lower map setting instead of Huge. I could play on the Huge with 6AI on my old computer that I previously mentioned and make it to game end. But I had alot of those "Options" under BUG turned down or off to do so.

JosEPh :)

Imperitor1
May 11, 2011, 07:21 PM
Whenever I meet a foreign dignitary and countless other times it randomly crashes to desktop. I'm running this mod on bts 3.1.9 with all the latest downloads and such and with many of the cool mods you created turned on. Any idea why it keeps crashing?

Navman
May 11, 2011, 09:04 PM
rtt4a & JosEPh II :
Thx for your help. I checked my custom letterhead folder in AND, which was empty as I
had previously cleaned it out. I'll look at loading the static folder in the xml loading, though I'm not sure how to do that. I was looking thru the BUG options earlier today and there are probably some options I can turn off. I don't think I saw anything regarding the diplomacy options, but I must have overlooked it. I'll check again.
Once again, thx for your suggestions!

ichbinsehselber
May 14, 2011, 03:48 AM
Please, can anybody help get this MOD working properly?

Just installed 175C by:
moved away my previous rise of mankind folder
installed AND175
installed the C patch (A New Dawn 1.75C Patch.exe)
started BTS
loaded rise of mankind mod

It seemed to load correctly, but several options under "custom game" seem to be missing e.g.
start as minor is not available

Does anyone have an idea what I did wrong or what is the problem?

the old version (installed long ago) AND174 is working (it offers many options when selecting custom game)

Dancing Hoskuld
May 14, 2011, 05:15 AM
Please, can anybody help get this MOD working properly?



the old version (installed long ago) AND174 is working (it offers many options when selecting custom game)

Some of the options are now in game options, available from the BUG options screen.

ichbinsehselber
May 14, 2011, 07:11 AM
thanks for your answer.
1.) I do not see any bug options button. The user interface looks like most AND components are missing. I do not see the revolutions button. The civics look rather vanilla
2.) There is no "start as minor" options under custom game. Many more options are missing compared to older versions of AND
3.) During installation the installing wizard only asked about formations and some UI options. I did not select anything.
4.) The installed mod has 1.5 GB. There should be everything there but it does not seem to do much.

So the installation seems to have gone wrong. I already looked at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344524

ichbinsehselber
May 14, 2011, 09:28 AM
Ok found out what the problem was by comparing the 2 installed versions. There was one folder level too much. Inside Rise of Mankind folder there was Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn folder.
Now it is working.
Thanks to Dancing for effort to help

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 02:49 PM
I'm having a rather strange issue with loading saves. I am currently playing a epic length huze map size game.

It seems that trying to load any save done after turn 382(913 AD, 28.30%) leads to the game crashing to desktop. Any save from before that turn loads fine and I can play it with no issues, but any save done after turn 382 leads to a CTD. Does anybody know what the issue is?

AndarielHalo
May 18, 2011, 02:52 PM
I'm having a rather strange issue with loading saves. I am currently playing a epic length huze map size game.

It seems that trying to load any save done after turn 382(913 AD, 28.30%) leads to the game crashing to desktop. Any save from before that turn loads fine and I can play it with no issues, but any save done after turn 382 leads to a CTD. Does anybody know what the issue is?




Some initial questions:

Do you have Revolutions on? Do you have Emerging civs on?


What I've found to be the case in games as they go on is, if Revolutions or Emerging civs are on, new civs spring up constantly, and it becomes rather messy. At a certain point, there will be dozens of civs on a map, beyond carrying capacity, and when a new civ emerges, the game will crash.

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 02:59 PM
Some initial questions:

Do you have Revolutions on? Do you have Emerging civs on?


What I've found to be the case in games as they go on is, if Revolutions or Emerging civs are on, new civs spring up constantly, and it becomes rather messy. At a certain point, there will be dozens of civs on a map, beyond carrying capacity, and when a new civ emerges, the game will crash.

I have both revolutions and emerging civs on. Based on what I can see in the worldbuilder, there are currently 20 civs on the map. I don't think that's enough to cause a crash is it? And wouldn't the game crash when the new civ was to be created rather than when I load a save?

AndarielHalo
May 18, 2011, 03:01 PM
I have both revolutions and emerging civs on. Based on what I can see in the worldbuilder, there are currently 20 civs on the map. I don't think that's enough to cause a crash is it? And wouldn't the game crash when the new civ was to be created rather than when I load a save?



Given that you're on Epic speed, I'm not too sure, but since you're playing on Huge map size and you have 20 civs on the map, I think this might be one of, if not the, cause of your crashes.

Psyringe
May 18, 2011, 03:05 PM
Huge map size and 20 civs will need a lot of RAM. Are you playing on a 64 bit Windows? If not, have you activated the /3GB switch? If you play on a 32 bit Windows with only 2 GB of address space, then huge maps in AND may crash due to lack of address space.

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 03:19 PM
Given that you're on Epic speed, I'm not too sure, but since you're playing on Huge map size and you have 20 civs on the map, I think this might be one of, if not the, cause of your crashes.

Well that's rather depressing. Is there any way to limit the number of possible civs to be created from revolutions and emerging barbarians?

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 03:20 PM
Huge map size and 20 civs will need a lot of RAM. Are you playing on a 64 bit Windows? If not, have you activated the /3GB switch? If you play on a 32 bit Windows with only 2 GB of address space, then huge maps in AND may crash due to lack of address space.

I should have refreshed before posting. I have 8 GB of ram and I've seen only 6 GB(of total usage while playing AND with all my background programs running) be used by my computer in task manager at any given time, so I assume RAM is not an issue.

AndarielHalo
May 18, 2011, 03:25 PM
Well that's rather depressing. Is there any way to limit the number of possible civs to be created from revolutions and emerging barbarians?




In my experience, Revolutions creates an infinite number of civs, because the AI is very bad at handling unrest, and will constantly sprout new civs from revolution. Which is sad because I'd love to keep it in use to create America and Haiti and such, but the game never goes past the 1700s because of the insane amount of crashes and slow turns.


Emerging civs actually creates a bunch more civs than you'd think, but it's easier to kill them off (using worldbuilder if you're lazy) if they're too much all at once.



The way I see it, your only option is one or the other. I don't know about limiting how many civs can be spawned to prevent crashing, and I would love to know if this is a possibilty.

Psyringe
May 18, 2011, 03:27 PM
I should have refreshed before posting. I have 8 GB of ram and I've seen only 6 GB(of total usage while playing AND with all my background programs running) be used by my computer in task manager at any given time, so I assume RAM is not an issue.

Well, if you're using a 32 bit Operating system, then any process can only address 4 GB, and if you don't use the /3GB switch, then only 2 GB of these can be addressed by Civ4. This is independent of your amount of physical RAM, which is the reason why I asked about your operating system and not about your RAM. ;)

Edit: Speaking about the task manager: How much memory does the Civ4 process use? For example, if it's at about 1.5 GB or higher, then 2 GB of address space probably won't be sufficient, and the game will crash.

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 03:42 PM
In my experience, Revolutions creates an infinite number of civs, because the AI is very bad at handling unrest, and will constantly sprout new civs from revolution. Which is sad because I'd love to keep it in use to create America and Haiti and such, but the game never goes past the 1700s because of the insane amount of crashes and slow turns.


Emerging civs actually creates a bunch more civs than you'd think, but it's easier to kill them off (using worldbuilder if you're lazy) if they're too much all at once.



The way I see it, your only option is one or the other. I don't know about limiting how many civs can be spawned to prevent crashing, and I would love to know if this is a possibilty.
I've deleted two civs that had emerged and made sure to delete all their units, saved the game (on turn 383), tried to load the save, and it still crashed.

Well, if you're using a 32 bit Operating system, then any process can only address 4 GB, and if you don't use the /3GB switch, then only 2 GB of these can be addressed by Civ4. This is independent of your amount of physical RAM, which is the reason why I asked about your operating system and not about your RAM. ;)

Edit: Speaking about the task manager: How much memory does the Civ4 process use? For example, if it's at about 1.5 GB or higher, then 2 GB of address space probably won't be sufficient, and the game will crash.
I have windows 7 64 bit. I loaded up the save and played a turn while looking at task manager on my second monitor and the RAM usage for civ 4 never went above 1.2 GB so I don't think RAM is the issue. Isn't the /3GB switch was windows xp only?

Psyringe
May 18, 2011, 03:55 PM
I have windows 7 64 bit. I loaded up the save and played a turn while looking at task manager on my second monitor and the RAM usage for civ 4 never went above 1.2 GB so I don't think RAM is the issue. Isn't the /3GB switch was windows xp only?

Okay - with a 64 bit system, Civ4 has 4 GB of address space. Even when taking memory fragmentation into account, the process can't realistically reach that barrier while it's using only 1.2 GB of memory. So I agree with you, RAM/address space is not the issue.

Perhaps upload ths savegame, check whether others with the same version of AND can reproduce the issue (can't help there unfortunately as I still run an older version)?

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 04:04 PM
Okay - with a 64 bit system, Civ4 has 4 GB of address space. Even when taking memory fragmentation into account, the process can't realistically reach that barrier while it's using only 1.2 GB of memory. So I agree with you, RAM/address space is not the issue.

Perhaps upload ths savegame, check whether others with the same version of AND can reproduce the issue (can't help there unfortunately as I still run an older version)?
The first save is the turn 382 one which should load for you. The second one is from a few turns later and was the first save I made after the turn 382 one, and causes CTDs when I load it.

JosEPh_II
May 18, 2011, 05:35 PM
Barb Civ (Emerging Civs) has a known problem and is discouraged from being used with Revolutions. The version of Revolutions used in AND 1.75 is now outdated and it too had an issue with Barb Civ and Barb World. (There were work a rounds discussed when these 1st began to appear but I don't remember in what thread and when they appeared)

Basically if you play on a Huge or larger Map Do Not use more than 7-10 AI to start. If you Must play with Revolutions on Do Not use Barb Civ or Barb World.

If you Must play with Barb Civ Do Not use Revolutions and again on a Huge map don't start with more than 7-10 AI.

I too have a x64 OS with 8GB of ram and was an active tester for Afforess during AND's progression to it's current version. I never use Rev or Barb Civ Options with the mod any more. Nor vassals either (personal preference here, as I feel the system has been fubared from inception in my way of thinking)

Unfortunately too many ppl are enamored with REV and have failed to see that the Mod with out REV turned On is still an Exceptional Mod to play. Plus it's a Ton more stable in my eXperience. But each to their own.

JosEPh :)

AndarielHalo
May 18, 2011, 05:37 PM
Does this mean there's a new version of Revolutions that might be made compatible with AND 1.75 or must I wait for this rumored 1.76?

Emphraim
May 18, 2011, 09:56 PM
Barb Civ (Emerging Civs) has a known problem and is discouraged from being used with Revolutions. The version of Revolutions used in AND 1.75 is now outdated and it too had an issue with Barb Civ and Barb World. (There were work a rounds discussed when these 1st began to appear but I don't remember in what thread and when they appeared)

Basically if you play on a Huge or larger Map Do Not use more than 7-10 AI to start. If you Must play with Revolutions on Do Not use Barb Civ or Barb World.

If you Must play with Barb Civ Do Not use Revolutions and again on a Huge map don't start with more than 7-10 AI.

I too have a x64 OS with 8GB of ram and was an active tester for Afforess during AND's progression to it's current version. I never use Rev or Barb Civ Options with the mod any more. Nor vassals either (personal preference here, as I feel the system has been fubared from inception in my way of thinking)

Unfortunately too many ppl are enamored with REV and have failed to see that the Mod with out REV turned On is still an Exceptional Mod to play. Plus it's a Ton more stable in my eXperience. But each to their own.

JosEPh :)

I was afraid that would be the issue. I guess I'll just wait until 1.76 which I heard is coming out at the end of this month.

Michail
May 19, 2011, 02:24 PM
Fixed boarders is a game option. I think it is off by default. Did you turn it on?

Hello, ok, I haven't. I thought I can do it by customizing the game by pressing CTRL+ALT+O. Looks like the only way is to set this (these, there are more options) only at custom game startup. Or is there any way how to change it during the game? I'd like to switch on FixBorders and Revolutions (=switch off NoRevolutions) on already played game. Haven't find the way.

Thx.

Dancing Hoskuld
May 19, 2011, 03:11 PM
Hello, ok, I haven't. I thought I can do it by customizing the game by pressing CTRL+ALT+O. Looks like the only way is to set this (these, there are more options) only at custom game startup. Or is there any way how to change it during the game? I'd like to switch on FixBorders and Revolutions (=switch off NoRevolutions) on already played game. Haven't find the way.

Thx.

I don't think you can. There are some options that control what XML is loaded and if you change the XML then you can't load a save.

JosEPh_II
May 19, 2011, 04:24 PM
Does this mean there's a new version of Revolutions that might be made compatible with AND 1.75 or must I wait for this rumored 1.76?

If you have modding eXperience the newer version of REVDCM could be merged with AND1.75c, IF you have sufficient modding eXperience to handle this task. I can't as I have no XML/SDK/Python/C++/etc. knowledge.

Afforess has hinted that maybe by the end of this month a AND1.76 version may appear. I would naturally assume with his eXtensive Modding skills that he would merge the latest REVDCM into AND.

I miss Zappara. :(

JosEPh :)

Michail
May 20, 2011, 01:23 AM
I don't think you can. There are some options that control what XML is loaded and if you change the XML then you can't load a save.

Looks like I have to start another game :sad: But, thanks.

SBR79
May 21, 2011, 06:23 PM
Hi guys, i need help first time i have used a mod mod, I start game in ROM, then select A new Dawn mor, but it reloads the normal BTS version, help please.

JosEPh_II
May 22, 2011, 10:26 AM
All you should need to do is when you load up BtS, is select Advanced, then next screen Load Mod, and from the list that comes up select Rise of Mankind-A New Dawn.

JosEPh :)

Aesus
May 22, 2011, 01:37 PM
Hello,

I have tried huge amounts of "fixes" for the no interface issue, but NOTHING has worked at all. I have only AND 1.75c installed along with the standard BtS mods. The installation issue faq is utterly useless in regards to that issue as all it says is "occurs with bad installs, follow the directions and try again" or something like that. I have even installed to desktop and placed in the mods folder manually. I have even completely uninstalled Civ4 and the 2 expansions, deleted all residual folders, reinstalled, just to see if that would change anything. Unfortunatly, the issue still persists. A while back AND worked perfectly fine, so I really have no idea what is wrong.
Thanks.

JosEPh_II
May 23, 2011, 04:12 PM
With the re-installation did you make sure BtS is at version 3.19? Using 3.13 or 3.17 would cause the interface problem along with other things.

What "Mods" folder did you use? The My Documents or the main x:/Program Files/Firaxis/ Sid M.../BtS/Mod path/folder? (where x is the drive letter, ex. c: )

Installing into the My Documents path can and usually does cause problems.

There is also a keyboard command, something like Alt-I that toggles the interface off and on.

After installation and before you load the Mod have you checked the Basic BtS Option menu?

It has to be something simple at start up that is being over looked.

JosEPh :)

Aesus
May 23, 2011, 04:25 PM
With the re-installation did you make sure BtS is at version 3.19? Using 3.13 or 3.17 would cause the interface problem along with other things.

What "Mods" folder did you use? The My Documents or the main x:/Program Files/Firaxis/ Sid M.../BtS/Mod path/folder? (where x is the drive letter, ex. c: )

Installing into the My Documents path can and usually does cause problems.

There is also a keyboard command, something like Alt-I that toggles the interface off and on.

After installation and before you load the Mod have you checked the Basic BtS Option menu?

It has to be something simple at start up that is being over looked.

JosEPh :)

BtS is fully patched, and it is not installed in the my documents, although that has been attempted. Other mods work fine, but every time I load AND it is just the blank menu with the mod title..

NightKev
Jun 02, 2011, 03:15 AM
Strange things are happening to my research rate/income. (Image) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2674926/civ4%20romand%20glitch.png)
Not sure what other info might be needed exactly...