View Full Version : A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback


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Afforess
Jun 02, 2011, 05:13 PM
Strange things are happening to my research rate/income. (Image) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2674926/civ4%20romand%20glitch.png)
Not sure what other info might be needed exactly...

Can you post a save? It's likely that the 2 just got out of sync in the code, the Main Menu (not the tax menu) one is correct.

Afforess
Jun 02, 2011, 05:14 PM
BtS is fully patched, and it is not installed in the my documents, although that has been attempted. Other mods work fine, but every time I load AND it is just the blank menu with the mod title..

Blank as in no text? Are you using English (as the language in game)? Where is AND installed to?

JosEPh_II
Jun 02, 2011, 08:54 PM
Didn't Jungle Camps on hills used to give 1 hammer instead of taking away 1 hammer?

I don't have any Jungle territory in my empire that is by a river so I don't know if the boost in production is still available with it as Vincentz original JC had.

The 1.76beta runs smooth, wait between turns is low. The Chiefdom Civic had me buffaloed for a bit.

Did you remove the extra Tabs from the Bug Options screen? I only have 5 tabs now. I should probably post a screenie huh?

Up to 885BC on a Giant Archipelago Map, Noble level, with 7AI. None of whom I have met yet. Thought I had picked Epic length so I'm at 340+ turns out of 1250 turns. I have founded 3 religions and may soon have a 4th. I'm ranked 4th in Power by the pop up screen and 3rd in wealth. Culture I'm 7th. I've been beaten by someone to several of the Important Wonders like Parthenon, Great Library, and Temple of Artemis as far as I can remember.

Barbs are at BtS normal levels so far. Have only had 2 small invasions of Ax and archer but since I got both horse and elephant and iron and copper they have been only small nuisances. Captured 1 barb city in the tundra to the south of my empire. It was the only one I've come across so far too.

Just some small feedback so far. More will come this weekend when i hopefully will have more time to test play.

JosEPh :)

Afforess
Jun 02, 2011, 09:28 PM
Didn't Jungle Camps on hills used to give 1 hammer instead of taking away 1 hammer?

I don't have any Jungle territory in my empire that is by a river so I don't know if the boost in production is still available with it as Vincentz original JC had.

The 1.76beta runs smooth, wait between turns is low. The Chiefdom Civic had me buffaloed for a bit.

Did you remove the extra Tabs from the Bug Options screen? I only have 5 tabs now. I should probably post a screenie huh?

Up to 885BC on a Giant Archipelago Map, Noble level, with 7AI. None of whom I have met yet. Thought I had picked Epic length so I'm at 340+ turns out of 1250 turns. I have founded 3 religions and may soon have a 4th. I'm ranked 4th in Power by the pop up screen and 3rd in wealth. Culture I'm 7th. I've been beaten by someone to several of the Important Wonders like Parthenon, Great Library, and Temple of Artemis as far as I can remember.

Barbs are at BtS normal levels so far. Have only had 2 small invasions of Ax and archer but since I got both horse and elephant and iron and copper they have been only small nuisances. Captured 1 barb city in the tundra to the south of my empire. It was the only one I've come across so far too.

Just some small feedback so far. More will come this weekend when i hopefully will have more time to test play.

JosEPh :)

I did not remove BUG tags. Try a redownload and reinstall, and if it persists, turn on python logging and upload them. Missing interface is a sign of a python issue.


IDK about the Jungle, it could be just because I removed civic effects on a lot of improvements (it caused the AI to destroy their perfectly good improvements whenever they changed civics, and it wasn't all that special anyway).

Glad everything seems smooth.

Initial impression on the Chiefdom civic? I was unsure, but I felt the 3 city hard limit was better than the scaling distance maintenance, for 2 reasons:

A.) Everyone seems to have an aversion to maintenance, so I stripped a lot out in AND 1.76

B.) The AI did not understand the maintenance was to discourage settling cities. The AI actually is advantaged with a hard limit, since the player usually reaches it first.

NightKev
Jun 02, 2011, 09:51 PM
Can you post a save? It's likely that the 2 just got out of sync in the code, the Main Menu (not the tax menu) one is correct.

I think the "g1-3" save should show it happening, just hit + or - on research rate when not in a menu and you'll notice it changes, then about half a second later it changes again. In the econ menu, hitting the +/- shows both values at once.
I also put an earlier autosave just in case, I think at least one of them should show it happening.

flitz
Jun 03, 2011, 12:46 AM
Weird, is this just me ? I used the 1.76 beta upgrade over my 1.75c installation and when running it I am missing the RevDCM options in the BUG-menu (only have the general options on the first tab there actually).

Stormwind
Jun 03, 2011, 12:54 AM
This was a bug in the first beta build, Afforess uploaded a new one where this was fixed.

southsider1986
Jun 04, 2011, 02:42 PM
When I load up a new game, from the center-top screen downwards I get in white text auto messages like this "BugOptions- failed writing ini.file etc." filling up a dozen lines.
If anybody understand what I'm talking about, plz help and fix the problem Thanks!!

Afforess
Jun 04, 2011, 02:44 PM
When I load up a new game, from the center-top screen downwards I get in white text auto messages like this "BugOptions- failed writing ini.file etc." filling up a dozen lines.
If anybody understand what I'm talking about, plz help and fix the problem Thanks!!

Turn off UAC or run Civ4 BTS as administrator.

baha
Jun 05, 2011, 07:28 AM
Hi,

I am glad to see that you are continuing on the developement of AND. I have been palying som ROM games in the last year and was happy to find the new 1.76 beta. After installing however, I am having some problems (downloaded today).

First, the Revolution part does not seem to start. There is an error when the game starts saying: Error in GameStartEven Handler <bound error revolution init.on game start of <revolutioninit.revolutioninit instance at 0x16...>

Second, The Bug options only display the first tab. I can remember taht there were many more in 1.75

I did a re-install of 1.75 and then installed beta 1.76 over it. Did not help. Any ideas?

I like the new civics. They seem more balanced and clean than the one in 1.75

I also have a request regarding the gameplay: Would it be possible to make the non-standard religions also optional. Typically I play on large maps: There are not enough civilizations for having teh additional religions. So, it will result in the technically advanced civ having 5 or six holy cities. I dont like this, so in 1.75 I have removed all new religions from the xml files. However, this makes it difficult to apply patches. If you tell me how to implement the religion switch option in AND, I would help you to re-work the XML's.

Thanks for the great mod!

Baha

jackehehe
Jun 05, 2011, 03:51 PM
Hi,

AND crashes when I try to capture an opponents city. I am playing a giantic earth map with a lot of civs so it is a quite heavy map to run, might that cause the crashes? Are there any known bugs with AND and capturing cities? I could capture enemy cities earlier in the game.

Oh, and I'd like to congratulate you on a very good mod as everyone else ;)

Update 1: I tried running the game as administrator with the same result, also I tried to capture an other smaller city and that worked fine.

Update 2: I tried to capture a similar but larger city (large cultural boarders and a wonder present in the city), upon which the game crashed.

Update 3: I tried decreasing the graphics settings from maximum to minimum and tried to capture the original ciry upon which the game once again crashed.

Cheers,
David

jackehehe
Jun 06, 2011, 10:45 AM
Update 4: I tried the somewhat far fetched idea to run the game in window mode, but it still crashes. Also I tried increasing the virual memory by vast amounts, but the crashes persist. I'm including (hence the new reply) images of the game options I run with, the cities I try to capture and of the crash it self.

AndarielHalo
Jun 06, 2011, 10:53 AM
Update 4: I tried the somewhat far fetched idea to run the game in window mode, but it still crashes. Also I tried increasing the virual memory by vast amounts, but the crashes persist. I'm including (hence the new reply) images of the game options I run with, the cities I try to capture and of the crash it self.



Holy hell.


I play the game in windowed mode ALL the time. I can tell you that given the huge amount of civilizations you have in that game, most likely that is going to be the source of much, if not all of your game crashes, especially so early into the game

jackehehe
Jun 06, 2011, 11:46 AM
Holy hell.


lol, I can see why.

Yeah, I read some earlier parts of this thread and it seems as though the number of civs is a reoccurring topic. Although, the amount of RAM should be the limiting factor in this case, AND occupies some 1.5 GB of RAM, I have 2x 3GB so I guess RAM shouldn't be a problem. Sure the number of civs should make it unbearable to wait between turns after a while, but as long as the RAM can handle the pressure the game shouldn't crash as a result of failure to allocate enough memory. Or am I missing something?

AndarielHalo
Jun 06, 2011, 11:47 AM
lol, I can see why.

Yeah, I read some earlier parts of this thread and it seems as though the number of civs is a reoccurring topic. Although, the amount of RAM should be the limiting factor in this case, AND occupies some 1.5 GB of RAM, I have 2x 3GB so I guess RAM shouldn't be a problem. Sure the number of civs should make it unbearable to wait between turns after a while, but as long as the RAM can handle the pressure the game shouldn't crash as a result of failure to allocate enough memory. Or am I missing something?



I have a 64 bit system that has 8 GB RAM. Usually I get that many civs in a game with Revolutions on or Emerging civs, and by that time, the game crashes any time a new civ emerges

baha
Jun 06, 2011, 12:14 PM
lol, I can see why.

Yeah, I read some earlier parts of this thread and it seems as though the number of civs is a reoccurring topic. Although, the amount of RAM should be the limiting factor in this case, AND occupies some 1.5 GB of RAM, I have 2x 3GB so I guess RAM shouldn't be a problem. Sure the number of civs should make it unbearable to wait between turns after a while, but as long as the RAM can handle the pressure the game shouldn't crash as a result of failure to allocate enough memory. Or am I missing something?

Having 6 GB of RAM will not help. CIV is running as a 32Bit application (you can see it is marked by an asterix in the task manager) 32 bit application can only allocate 2 GB of RAM. 1.5 GB is already close to the limit and the crashes are probable to occur due to memory allocation failures.

Stormwind
Jun 06, 2011, 12:32 PM
Civ4 and many other 32bit applications have a flag in their exe that allows them to allocate 3GB of memory.

AndarielHalo
Jun 06, 2011, 12:36 PM
Civ4 and many other 32bit applications have a flag in their exe that allows them to allocate 3GB of memory.


Where, and how

baha
Jun 06, 2011, 12:37 PM
as far as I know the 3Gb switch is for the operating system, not for the applications

keldath
Jun 06, 2011, 12:39 PM
hey guys - afforess and koshling just now made some fixes to the memory issues,

ive been having memory allocation error with the latest updates - but its due to some errors in the code,
(and i have neer had mafs before).

so the next release should be more stable lower mem pc's.

Stormwind
Jun 06, 2011, 01:00 PM
@AndarielHalo
Google for IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE

jackehehe
Jun 06, 2011, 03:19 PM
@AndarielHalo
Google for IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE

This my friend, looks really intressting, I shall try it tomorrow, I do not have access to the computer with my save until then. Do you have any idea how one would go about to acivate this IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE? A quick glance at google suggests that you'd have to recompile the BTS exe.

Having 6 GB of RAM will not help. CIV is running as a 32Bit application (you can see it is marked by an asterix in the task manager) 32 bit application can only allocate 2 GB of RAM. 1.5 GB is already close to the limit and the crashes are probable to occur due to memory allocation failures.

Baha, you are making a very good point. I hadn't event considered that BTS were a 32-bit application >.<

Stormwind
Jun 06, 2011, 03:45 PM
@jackehehe
As I said before, the BtS exe 3.19 already has the flag.

jackehehe
Jun 07, 2011, 07:57 AM
@jackehehe
As I said before, the BtS exe 3.19 already has the flag.

Ah, I missed that, sorry.

As I understand it civ then should then be able to allcate 4 GB of RAM (64-bit operating system + flag) according to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#memory_limits

That disregards Baba's (and AndarielHalo's?) previous comment about civ being able to allocate only 2 GB of RAM being the reason for the crashes? Given that Civ actually have access to 4 (or 3) GB of RAM.

So, what is then the cause of the crashes when one plays big maps with a lot of civs? A fair start seems to be to deactivate the modcomponents one by one (Yey, the scietific method :goodjob:"!), is there a way to deactivate say the revolution mod once the game is started? Somewhere it should be defined which mods the savefile calls upon startup.

AndarielHalo
Jun 07, 2011, 08:09 AM
Ah, I missed that, sorry.

As I understand it civ then should then be able to allcate 4 GB of RAM (64-bit operating system + flag) according to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx#memory_limits

That disregards Baba's (and AndarielHalo's?) previous comment about civ being able to allocate only 2 GB of RAM being the reason for the crashes? Given that Civ actually have access to 4 (or 3) GB of RAM.

So, what is then the cause of the crashes when one plays big maps with a lot of civs? A fair start seems to be to deactivate the modcomponents one by one (Yey, the scietific method :goodjob:"!), is there a way to deactivate say the revolution mod once the game is started? Somewhere it should be defined which mods the savefile calls upon startup.




I have a 64 bit system with 8GB RAM, and AND crashes constantly, even when I play on Standard size with average settings on civs and such. I don't understand if this ram switch even applies to me. I just figured it might be something to ease the heavy level of crashes

Psyringe
Jun 07, 2011, 09:33 AM
Lots of wrong or half-wrong information here, let me try if I can set this straight. I'll try to make it not overly technical (at the expense of some accuracy, but please bear with me):

1. There's an important difference between available memory and address space. Available memory is the total size of RAM in your machine (usually about 2-8 Gigabyte), plus your "virtual memory" - that's hard drive space set aside for Windows to use as swap space when there's not enough RAM. You can envision your computer like a huge cloakroom, in which clothes are constantly stored and retrieved. Your RAM is the main cloakroom, it provides quick access. Your virtual memory is an additional storage space behind the main cloakroom - it offers additional space, but it takes longer to access. For Civ4, modern computers usually have enough memory, though I'd recommend to have 3 GB of physical RAM (= main cloakroom space) for super-huge games, otherwise you may have long waiting times while the game swaps data around between physical and virtual memory.

2. Address space is, in our cloakroom analogy, the range of retrievement numbers that can be given out to customers. This is NOT related to the actual capacity of the cloakroom, it's just a fixed amount of "number slips" that are printed for every cloakroom. This leads to two possible problems:

Problem 1: There may be more number slips than there's actual cloakroom capacity, so someone may want to store a cloak, and there are still numbers that could be given out, but there#s simply no capacity left to store the cloak. In this case the cloakroom will stop to operate (in PC terms: If Civ4 tries to allocate more memory than the total memory of your machine, then it will crash).

Problem 2: The number slips may run out although there's still room in the cloakroom, so someone may want to store a cloak, but can't, because there's no number slip that he could be given, even though there's still a lot of free space in the cloakroom. In this case, the customer will not be able to store his cloak (in PC terms: If Civ4 tries to allocate more address space than your operating system provides, then it can't store any more data and will most likely crash).

3. You can envision a 32-bit Windows as having about 4 billion number slips that can be given out. However, half of those are reserved for cloakroom employees (i.e. Windows' own processes, which require memory and address space as well). So a single customer (Civ4) can at maximum have access to 2 billion slips, and store 2 billion cloaks - even if the cloakroom has room for much more.

4. However, there's a special rule in our cloakroom: Every customer always wants to store hundreds, thousands, or even millions of cloaks at once, and each set of cloaks must be given a contiguous set of numbers. So, if the customer wants to store 1 million cloaks, then the cloakroom needs 1 million of contiguous number slips, with not a single one being already occupied or missing, to hand out to him. This leads to a third possible problem:

Problem 3: Even if there is enough space in the cloakroom, and the wardroom has enough number slips left, there may not be enough _contiguous_ number slips for a given set of cloaks. Let's say the customer wants to store 1000 cloaks, and we have 1200 number slips left, more than enough. But if these number slips have e.g. the numbers 301-900, and 1201-1800, then the set of cloaks cannot be stored.

5. Also, the customer will keep _all_ number slips of a given set of cloaks until _each_ of these cloaks has been retrieved. Therefore, there may be number slips that currently aren't actually used to store any cloaks, but which can't be given out for new cloaks, because the customer hasn't returned them yet.

This is the reason why it's important to understand the difference between memory (cloakroom capacity) and address space (number slips available). Even if Civ4 currently only occupies, say, only 1.6 GB of memory, it may be allocating 1.95 GB of address space already. Unfortunately, when you check Civ4's memory usage in the task manager, it will only tell you the actual memory usage (the number of cloaks Civ4 has actually physically stored in the cloakroom). Civ4 may have nearly exhausted its available address space (about 2 billion numbers) already, you just don't know - at least not from the display of the regular task manager. Hence, if Civ4 crashes while occupying 1.6 GB of memory, then the reason for the crash may be that it exhausted its 2 GB of available address space.

6. Because many programs required more than 2 Gb of address space, there's a setting that tells Windows to enlarge the address space to 3 GB. This setting is activated by booting Windows with a special command, the "3GB switch". Note that there are still only 4 GB of address space in total, it's just divided differently: Previously, it was split in half between Windows and Civ4. With the 3GB option switched on, Civ4 gets 3 GB of address space, while Windows will have to make do with 1 GB. In our cloakroom analogy, this means that 1 billion number slips that previously were reserved for cloakroom employees, can now be used by the customer.

7. Of course, this only works if the customer actually understands numbers bigger than 2 billion. In PC terms, this is signified by a "flag" that can be set (or not) inside each program. For Civ4 BtS 3.19, this flag is already set. This means, the program _can_ handle numbers bigger than 2 billion. Of course, this flag is only effective if used together with the 3GB switch mentioned above, which causes Windows to actually allow Civ4 to access addresses in this range.

8. In a 64-bit operating system, the address space is much, much larger than 4 GB. (It's like a new form of cloakroom which has many more number slips than the previous versions.) However, the customer still needs to understand the numbers given to him. In PC terms: A 32-bit program that has doesn't have the "flag" enabled, will still only underatnd numbers up to 2 billion. Civ4, which has the flag enabled, will understand numbers up to 4 billion. A native 64-bit program will understand numbers much, much larger, but Civ4 is a 32 bit program, so 4 billion is the limit.

Hrm. Still quite a wall of text. But I hope it helps to understand why there are different types of memory limitations, and what the mysterios 2 GB barrier, 3 GB switch, flag, and 32-bit vs 64-bit addressing, mean in terms of Civ4's playability and stability.

jackehehe
Jun 07, 2011, 10:35 AM
Psyringe, thank you for a necessary and pedagogical explanation of the technical concepts involved!

If think that you have cleared some of the technical confusion up. Let me try to interpret your conclusion. BTS 3.19 is flaged and therefore has 4 GB of access space available. Thus your bolded comment "Even if Civ4 currently only occupies, say, only 1.6 GB of memory, it may be allocating 1.95 GB of address space already." shouldn't really be a problem in a 64-bit machine, since 1.95 GB isn't close to 4 GB.

So, on a 64-bit machine, civ IV, being a 32-bit application, should be able to allocate 4 GB of address space, and given the sufficient amount of physical RAM, it should occupy 4 GB of RAM to. If this is correct, then the mystery isn't solved since I (and others complaining about the same problem) do have >= 6 GB physical RAM and a 64-bit operating system. I agree that there should be crashes on a 32-bit machine without the 3 GB switch, but the way you put it there should be plenty more that 2 GB of both access memory and physical RAM for civ to utilize.

Did I misunderstand you?

Thanks again for taking your time to explain stuff...!

Psyringe
Jun 07, 2011, 10:47 AM
Glad to be of help. :)

If think that you have cleared some of the technical confusion up. Let me try to interpret your conclusion. BTS 3.19 is flaged and therefore has 4 GB of access space available. Thus your bolded comment "Even if Civ4 currently only occupies, say, only 1.6 GB of memory, it may be allocating 1.95 GB of address space already." shouldn't really be a problem in a 64-bit machine, since 1.95 GB isn't close to 4 GB.
I believe that this is correct. You have a 64-bit OS and >6 GB of RAM, under these conditions Civ4 should not crash due to memory problems of either type, neither lack of memory nor lack of address space. If it crashes nonetheless, then the reason for the crashes is unlikely to be related to memory. Unfortunately this means that your mystery isn't solved. Fortunately it means that it _can_ be solved, there's no hard unsurmountable limitation involved as far as I can see. The problem is that solving this problem may require substantial debugging and programming skills, as well as a good amount of time ...

Koshling
Jun 07, 2011, 11:43 AM
Glad to be of help. :)


I believe that this is correct. You have a 64-bit OS and >6 GB of RAM, under these conditions Civ4 should not crash due to memory problems of either type, neither lack of memory nor lack of address space. If it crashes nonetheless, then the reason for the crashes is unlikely to be related to memory. Unfortunately this means that your mystery isn't solved. Fortunately it means that it _can_ be solved, there's no hard unsurmountable limitation involved as far as I can see. The problem is that solving this problem may require substantial debugging and programming skills, as well as a good amount of time ...

The fix for the memory allocation issues was pushed yesterday. I imagine Afforess will make an update imminently

jackehehe
Jun 07, 2011, 02:37 PM
Psyringe
Haha, well, I guess we'll be relying on the compitent minds of Afforess and those who help him develop this marvelous BTW mod. It feels good to have come to an end with the RAM issue one and for all atleast, I think that it is a question that have been hanging in the air for quite some time now.
But I guess that means that's it for my hotseat save for now =(

Kushling
Maybe that can be worth trying then. Can I find that fix somewhere or is it yet to be posted?

I'm uploading my save (the 7z file) as per the instuctions at the begining of this thread. I tried to locate the "A New Dawn.log" to include it too, but that file is nowhere to be found. Where is it supposed to be more precisly?

OwieB2003
Jun 07, 2011, 07:57 PM
In the 1.75, 1.76 beta 1, and 1.76 beta 2 installers, the default path it installs to is wrong: It makes a ...\Mods\Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn\Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn\ folder. Moving the incorrectly nested folder up a level fixes the problem, though.

Afforess
Jun 07, 2011, 08:23 PM
In the 1.75, 1.76 beta 1, and 1.76 beta 2 installers, the default path it installs to is wrong: It makes a ...\Mods\Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn\Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn\ folder. Moving the incorrectly nested folder up a level fixes the problem, though.

It's not wrong per-se, it uses your last installation path, if you have one. Pre-AND 1.75 builds installed to the location above. ;)

Danei
Jun 07, 2011, 08:54 PM
I'm using beta 2, and I'm getting this error upon starting a game with revolutions enabled.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1318/revolutionerror.png

The game then proceeds as if revolutions were disabled, though otherwise works fine.

If I need to turn on some kind of logs or something, I can do that if someone tells me how. :P

Afforess
Jun 07, 2011, 09:07 PM
I'm using beta 2, and I'm getting this error upon starting a game with revolutions enabled.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1318/revolutionerror.png

The game then proceeds as if revolutions were disabled, though otherwise works fine.

If I need to turn on some kind of logs or something, I can do that if someone tells me how. :P

Enable Logging: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=356960

philipschall
Jun 08, 2011, 12:00 AM
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9606/reverror.png
I got the same rev problem, attached are the logs.

jackehehe
Jun 08, 2011, 03:22 AM
I tried to locate the "A New Dawn.log" to include it too, but that file is nowhere to be found. Where is it supposed to be more precisly?

I enabled logging as per Zappatas instructions that Afforess linked to. I still can't find a .log file with the name a new dawn.log, but the log folder in the \my games\ folder got substantially larger and more, I'm including the logs folder here.

After a quick glance in the log files I found two fishy things, both in the LSystem.log file:

1. Something called SHADOW is a reoccurring word

2. Some node called Leaf_farm AxB seems to be causing some trouble

Repeatively it says stuff like

building:Art/Afforess/Early_Building/Wheelwright/wheelwrightB.nif does not contain a node called SHADOW. Its shadow, if present, will be corrupt!
Warning: Node Leaf_3x1 has no generic art matching constraint 0.000000
Warning: Node Leaf_3x1 has no generic art matching constraint 90.000000

And it ends with

LSystem failed to place node Leaf_Farm_4x4!

Oh well, the logs are included anyway and the save can be found on the previous page along with a more detailed description of my problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 08, 2011, 09:58 AM
Hi!

I have been playing your mod 1.76 beta 2 last couple of days. I have reached around 1900 and turns are getting slow. I am playing standard size map and standard speed with 14 civilizations. But now my game just randomly drops to desktop and "program have stopped working" appears. I can load the save and play further until this happens again. Memory issue? leak? pc seems slower after crash too. I got Win7 Ultimate 64bit with 4gb ram.

Here are the logs after the crash... and savegame with the random CTD. Just note that you may be able to play for quite some time before it drops if it drops on your pc at all.

baha
Jun 08, 2011, 02:04 PM
I also have a request regarding the gameplay: Would it be possible to make the non-standard religions also optional. Typically I play on large maps: There are not enough civilizations for having teh additional religions. So, it will result in the technically advanced civ having 5 or six holy cities. I dont like this, so in 1.75 I have removed all new religions from the xml files. However, this makes it difficult to apply patches. If you tell me how to implement the religion switch option in AND, I would help you to re-work the XML's.


I am still offering myself to implement a switch for the new religions in the XML files. Interested?

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 08, 2011, 04:39 PM
I am still offering myself to implement a switch for the new religions in the XML files. Interested?

Are you talking about the extra religions in RoM over vanilla BtS or the extra religions in AAranda's pack or the ones in the experimental pack I put up? Or all of these?

If you are talking about AAranda and my packs then it just needs the MLF stuff put in. Personally I find it easier to add or remove a folder than edit a file and change a 0 to 1 or vice versa. I am currently making sure that these packs work in C2C and AND.

JosEPh_II
Jun 08, 2011, 06:47 PM
2Afforess
I still can not get all the Bug screen options to show. The attached screenshot shows the 5 tabs I consistently get when I install 1.76beta 1 or beta 2 over a 1.75 fresh install (which I checked and played several turns then upgraded to 1.75c patch and again verified and played several turns).

I also can report that having C2C in the BtS/Mods folder when you install RAND will cause changes. AND1.75 had the original Dido. But by leaving C2C in the Mods folder the New Dido will show up.

I attached Logs and 2 screenies.

I can play the game without the extra tabs in BUG but I expect that eventually I will encounter settings that I would not normally choose like Storms. And I always check Multiple Religions but don't have that option with the way the BUG screen now appears for me.

So until I can sort out why I only get 5 tabs I won't be giving much feedback because I feel it's tainted and would be counter productive.

Is there anyway these 2 Mods (RAND and C2C) could be made to co-exist in the BtS/Mods folder without interfere/changing each other?

Edit: the 1st screenshot is there because counting from bottom up you only get descriptions for each of the bottom 9 options by hovering the mouse cursor. Above that you get no description on the Hover.

JosEPh :(

Afforess
Jun 08, 2011, 07:41 PM
2Afforess
I still can not get all the Bug screen options to show. The attached screenshot shows the 5 tabs I consistently get when I install 1.76beta 1 or beta 2 over a 1.75 fresh install (which I checked and played several turns then upgraded to 1.75c patch and again verified and played several turns).

I also can report that having C2C in the BtS/Mods folder when you install RAND will cause changes. AND1.75 had the original Dido. But by leaving C2C in the Mods folder the New Dido will show up.

I attached Logs and 2 screenies.

I can play the game without the extra tabs in BUG but I expect that eventually I will encounter settings that I would not normally choose like Storms. And I always check Multiple Religions but don't have that option with the way the BUG screen now appears for me.

So until I can sort out why I only get 5 tabs I won't be giving much feedback because I feel it's tainted and would be counter productive.

Is there anyway these 2 Mods (RAND and C2C) could be made to co-exist in the BtS/Mods folder without interfere/changing each other?

Edit: the 1st screenshot is there because counting from bottom up you only get descriptions for each of the bottom 9 options by hovering the mouse cursor. Above that you get no description on the Hover.

JosEPh :(

Conflicting files should not be showing up unless your entire mods folder is messed up. I'd totally delete the entire mods folder, and recreate it. Then clean install C2C, AND 1.75, and apply patch 2.

BTW, I tested beta2 with a clean AND 1.75 install and the entire BUG menu worked.

JosEPh_II
Jun 08, 2011, 08:36 PM
I knew that others were getting it to work. I just had not found the right combination yet for me. Removing Mods from my Mod folder was the next step.

So you think C2C and AND1.76 can co exist in the Mod folder? That would be good news.

I also would like to get the last working 1.5x or 1.6x version of AND from you sometime if you still have either. I lost my HD over the winter and all my Previous RoM and AND versions below RoM 2.8 and AND 1.75 were lost. I Was Not Happy over that. :/

JosEPh

baha
Jun 09, 2011, 01:12 AM
Are you talking about the extra religions in RoM over vanilla BtS or the extra religions in AAranda's pack or the ones in the experimental pack I put up? Or all of these?

If you are talking about AAranda and my packs then it just needs the MLF stuff put in. Personally I find it easier to add or remove a folder than edit a file and change a 0 to 1 or vice versa. I am currently making sure that these packs work in C2C and AND.

I am talkin about the extra ROM religions: hellenism, naughalism, kemetism and forgot the last one. I think for maps of size large, they are too many and there is no posibillity just to use the vanilla religions which is my preference. As I said: I have removed the extra religions form the mod, but this makes it cumbersome to apply patches in the future...

DJ We$t
Jun 09, 2011, 01:36 AM
My mod folder contains a lot of mods next to RAND 1.76b2 and the Bugmod menu works fine like afforess mentioned before.
Maybe you made a mistake by installing the Patch gettin it into the wrong directory or somethin like that.

But there is another question for me @ Afforess

What happened to the revolutionsicon next to the spy icon in the top right corner ?
did I missed somethin ?

Koshling
Jun 09, 2011, 06:28 AM
Hi!

I have been playing your mod 1.76 beta 2 last couple of days. I have reached around 1900 and turns are getting slow. I am playing standard size map and standard speed with 14 civilizations. But now my game just randomly drops to desktop and "program have stopped working" appears. I can load the save and play further until this happens again. Memory issue? leak? pc seems slower after crash too. I got Win7 Ultimate 64bit with 4gb ram.

Here are the logs after the crash... and savegame with the random CTD. Just note that you may be able to play for quite some time before it drops if it drops on your pc at all.

I'm sorry you are having memory issues with beta 2. beta 1 had a serious memory leak, but that was fixed in beta 2, so the cause of your issues is currently unknown. I notice in your python log the last thing to happen was a couple of nukes going off - could you check if that is a consistent signature when you crash. Also could you run resource monitor (from task manager swith to resources tab and click on 'resource manager') and monitor the memory usage of the Civ4 process as you play (check it every few turns) - is memory usage progressively creaping up over time? If so this would indicate a memory leak which we can search for (though I haven't seen one in my testing so far). If not then it's something else connected to some triggering events (e.g. - the nukes maybe)

DJ We$t
Jun 09, 2011, 01:25 PM
Hey guys found another bug in multiplayer lan game.
By saving the game and starting it later transmitting it to your clients.
The error says couldn't decompress transmitted save after tryin it again the same error occurs again and again no matter if the client deletes the save and loads it again.

keldath
Jun 09, 2011, 01:50 PM
DJ We$t,

hummmm...troubling news.

can you guys check this out??

ill try to test for this myself.

maybe you can send the save game to the other cpu by mail or something so the game wont need to transfer the save?

Stormwind
Jun 09, 2011, 02:41 PM
DjWest, this error normally comes up when the game itself is changed. Make sure your LAN buddies have the same version the game was started with and they didn't change anything.

JosEPh_II
Jun 09, 2011, 06:16 PM
Conflicting files should not be showing up unless your entire mods folder is messed up. I'd totally delete the entire mods folder, and recreate it. Then clean install C2C, AND 1.75, and apply patch 2.

BTW, I tested beta2 with a clean AND 1.75 install and the entire BUG menu worked.

And I bet you Didn't have C2C in your Mod Folder either. ;)

JosEPh :)

Afforess
Jun 09, 2011, 06:20 PM
And I bet you Didn't have C2C in your Mod Folder either. ;)

JosEPh :)

From a programming standpoint,1 mod in a separate folder can not draw files from, or interact with another mod in another folder (unless specifically designed to do so, and no one has done that). I expect you have simply installed C2C stuff into AND or AND stuff into C2C, and corrupted them.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 09, 2011, 07:35 PM
From a programming standpoint,1 mod in a separate folder can not draw files from, or interact with another mod in another folder (unless specifically designed to do so, and no one has done that). I expect you have simply installed C2C stuff into AND or AND stuff into C2C, and corrupted them.

There is something wrong somewhere. In C2C having any version of RoM or RoM-AND in the mods folder will cause problems. I have tried to track down where it is happening but without success so far. Admittedly I ave not pursued with vigour; just now and then when i think of it. I suspect some ini file somewhere pointing to the wrong path.

Afforess
Jun 09, 2011, 07:47 PM
There is something wrong somewhere. In C2C having any version of RoM or RoM-AND in the mods folder will cause problems. I have tried to track down where it is happening but without success so far. Admittedly I ave not pursued with vigour; just now and then when i think of it. I suspect some ini file somewhere pointing to the wrong path.

Seeing how C2C is the common link (AND does not interfere with other mods, I've got Revolutions mod and others in my folder), I'd start there.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 09, 2011, 08:21 PM
Seeing how C2C is the common link (AND does not interfere with other mods, I've got Revolutions mod and others in my folder), I'd start there.

Actually I suspect "custom assets", since I have been through all the C2C files at least twice. ;)

DJ We$t
Jun 09, 2011, 10:22 PM
DjWest, this error normally comes up when the game itself is changed. Make sure your LAN buddies have the same version the game was started with and they didn't change anything.

Host and Clients got the same version 1.76b2

I transmitted the save 4 times via instant messenger after the failed transmission out of Civ4 by it self.
The same error occurs again and again.
Could anyone check this too ? Maybe something is wrong on the clientside but nothing was found so far.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 10, 2011, 12:39 AM
I am talkin about the extra ROM religions: hellenism, naughalism, kemetism and forgot the last one. I think for maps of size large, they are too many and there is no posibillity just to use the vanilla religions which is my preference. As I said: I have removed the extra religions form the mod, but this makes it cumbersome to apply patches in the future...

I have been thinking on this and I think there may be a way of making a mod do what you want. The religions would still be in the pedia but they would not show up in game. If it works it then becomes scalable to any map size and best of all it would not need any editing when versions of the main mod change.

I have not yet tried this so I am not sure it will work. Here is how it would work.

1) create a new AND mod and link it in.
2) copy the schema files into the new folder he ones for religion infos and leader infos are probably enough.
3) find the game option that has game size - I haven't found it yet but we need the one known to XML
4) for each religion which you want out for the game size create an entry just containing the game option it is valid for and setting the tech required for the religion to the name of the last tech usually "TECH_FUTURE".
5) for each leader with one of those excluded religions as their favorite religion, create an entry with just the game option and the new favorite religion.

The latter is probably something I should do with the extra religions mod as without it no one will go for them.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 10, 2011, 04:16 AM
I'm sorry you are having memory issues with beta 2. beta 1 had a serious memory leak, but that was fixed in beta 2, so the cause of your issues is currently unknown. I notice in your python log the last thing to happen was a couple of nukes going off - could you check if that is a consistent signature when you crash. Also could you run resource monitor (from task manager swith to resources tab and click on 'resource manager') and monitor the memory usage of the Civ4 process as you play (check it every few turns) - is memory usage progressively creaping up over time? If so this would indicate a memory leak which we can search for (though I haven't seen one in my testing so far). If not then it's something else connected to some triggering events (e.g. - the nukes maybe)

Hi! I have been trying to locate the CTD. But it seems to be totally random. However the memory issue is there. I have 2 times tried to load my "year 1914" save. One turn i came to "year 1922" and didnt notice much since it crashed so fast. However next time i reached "year 1958" and by that time (about 10-15min quick playing) the memory usage had gone from approx 1000000kb to 1100000kb so that is about 100mb extra memory used? that normal? and then it just crashed with no warning. Attached new logs. And again it says something about 2 nukes being detonated... Well i think something is odd as i think i am the only one using them? And this time i havent used one. And I also deleted the old log files too. Is there any way i can check if some other nation is using nukes?

I also attached my savegame if it can help.... I am out of luck when it comes to finding the reason behind this...

Requia
Jun 10, 2011, 12:32 PM
The civics that generate espionage are all screwy. I get (insert really big number here) in the civic screen, and the end result is i end up with something like -80000 espionage a turn.

edit: It occurs to me that this might be a WINE thing, you should probably disregard this unless somebody confirms.

Requia
Jun 10, 2011, 12:56 PM
Where are the <BuildingClassCommerceChanges> and related (<iCommerce> <ICommerceProduced>) tags defined?

JosEPh_II
Jun 10, 2011, 04:43 PM
From a programming standpoint,1 mod in a separate folder can not draw files from, or interact with another mod in another folder (unless specifically designed to do so, and no one has done that). I expect you have simply installed C2C stuff into AND or AND stuff into C2C, and corrupted them.

Nope have not done that. In fact until you came out with 1.76beta1 there was No AND mod in my BtS/Mod folder as Strategy warned and we confirmed that if RoM or AND was in that Folder C2C would have problems.

So you see AND and C2C have had separate resting places for sometime now. Now I did have C2C in the BtS/Mods folder when I treid to update 1.76 to beta2.

Just last night I installed 1.75 and patched to C and played for 2 hours with a full BUG screen.

<shrug> So I guess I will pull all the Mods out of my BtS/Mods folder and then try to upgrade to 1.76b2 tonight and see what shakes.

JosEPh

Edit: Why does AND in the Config file under Description of Mod line still say Rise of Mankind 2.9? Can't this be changed to A New Dawn and still be able to play the Mod? Same for Name of Mod line?

# ; Name of Mod
Name = Rise of Mankind

# ; Description of Mod
Description = Rise of Mankind v2.9 for Beyond the Sword


Actually last night I renamed RAND to this:

; Name of Mod
Name = Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn1.75c

; Description of Mod
Description = Generic Mod

And as I said I played it for 2 hours. It did make a 2nd Configuration settings with this name. And the original was still there too.

Babri
Jun 12, 2011, 01:02 AM
The slavery civic is supposed to give free slave in every city. I am not getting it in one of my cities. :confused:

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 12, 2011, 12:35 PM
@Koshling

Have you had a look at my problems/logs? Is there still a leak? Anyone confirm?

Koshling
Jun 12, 2011, 03:22 PM
@Koshling

Have you had a look at my problems/logs? Is there still a leak? Anyone confirm?

As far as I can tell there is no leak. I believe your issue is related to the apparent nuking, but that's not an area I know anything about, so I really don't know I'm afraid. Was hoping afforess would comment on this if he knows the nuke code...

Afforess
Jun 12, 2011, 04:46 PM
As far as I can tell there is no leak. I believe your issue is related to the apparent nuking, but that's not an area I know anything about, so I really don't know I'm afraid. Was hoping afforess would comment on this if he knows the nuke code...

I can't imagine why nuking would increase mem usage by 100mb (or even at all).

JosEPh_II
Jun 12, 2011, 08:29 PM
Seeing how C2C is the common link (AND does not interfere with other mods, I've got Revolutions mod and others in my folder), I'd start there.

It interferes with C2C. :p

I still can't get past the 5 tab BUG Option screen. So I guess I'll wait for beta 3.

Has anything been found?

JosEPh

Afforess
Jun 12, 2011, 08:30 PM
It interferes with C2C. :p

I still can't get past the 5 tab BUG Option screen. So I guess I'll wait for beta 3.

Has anything been found?

JosEPh
No, there is nothing wrong on the AND end of things. All of the BUG pages work fine.

baha
Jun 13, 2011, 05:20 AM
Beta 3 has solved my BUG issue and also the revolutions now work!

Istanbul_Kop
Jun 13, 2011, 06:48 AM
When I copy the static folder over (for static leaderheads) from the normal RoM directory to the AnD modules folder, I still get animated leaderheads...is something different now?

1stcontact2035
Jun 13, 2011, 10:35 AM
First, I want to say that I basically managed to play the best game of Civ ever on this mod... however, that was until the game CTD after I got pretty far in it. I haven't yet made a log of the reason the game crashed, what I do know is that I was playing on the Giant Earth Map as China on a fairly easy level, on marathon game speed, which that alone should give you some idea of the scope of the game I was playing (the fact that by 400 AD I had vassalized all but 4 players, having placed all players on the map except the Zulu in historical starting locations meant that the game was running pretty heavy on computing power even a hundred or more turns back). The first crash came around and I decreased graphics to a minimum. I managed to get another 150 turns out of the game, maybe more, before I basically got in a war with the next biggest player, and among other things I had the mountaineering tech abilities on which may or may not be a (I stress the "a") main memory hog. I know the first crash came the turn I basically stuck a worker up on a peak in Hawaii and tried to work it... after that crash, one of the things I did was basically opt out of messing with peaks, but about the time the next set of crashes started happening was when everyone else started working them, so there might be something to that (again, I know you probably could use the logs from this, but some background info and posting this so I remember to post the logs later on seems important too). The main/last series of crashes, which was basically like a crash, then I'd try to decrease graphics on something I didn't try, then two turns later another crash... so on and so forth but this only went on for four or five turns before I ran out of options, was also going on about the time that I was in a war with the next biggest empire (as in the only other empire with vassals at that point... also the only empire that had cities on more than one continent (Caesar had solid control of all of Italy, and also had taken over the Levant, Morocco, Ethiopia, and Moscow). It was a shame that I only got as far as defeating him, because, well, I managed to make him surrender and that took all of two turns, even capturing Rome itself.

As per computer stats (yes, they suck), I'm running with an Intel quad core processor at 2.4 GHz, 3 GB DDR 2 ram at 553 MHz, a Radeon HD 4350 Video Card with 1 GB memory (and yes, its DDR2 memory... my PSU runs at 300W max), I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, could technically upgrade my memory to 8 GB at a slightly higher MHz... my paging file size is 4.5 GB - 8 GB. My best guess in all that is, I don't have enough memory to run both your mod and the Giant Earth Map... heck, it could boil down to my processor, as well. Perhaps literally. My CPU usage is exactly 25-26% while running this mod. As in, one core, at 100%. Which, you know, its entirely possible the CPU gets overheated and Windows shuts the program down for the safety of the core. Its never like I'm just on the game for a short while and this happens... it always takes a little while, at least a half hour or more, for it to happen, and it always is when I'm doing some graphics intensive rather than in between turns, etc. Like its worst when the screen is scrolling, and then the screen freezes up, or it just CTD. Also I do have a memory usage monitor that says that my memory usage is around in the mid 80's% while running this particular game. If you need anymore info... just ask.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 13, 2011, 10:44 AM
The CTD that comes late in game happens every game for me and my friends. Even if we play on standard size and only 10 civs. I will try another and see what happens then. But I am sure we got a mem leak of some sort.

baha
Jun 13, 2011, 12:35 PM
I think there is something wrong with the chariots:
If I build a chariot in a city, the sity screen is not shown correctly, if I double click on the city. If I select another city and use arrow keys to browse throug the cities, it will be ok. If I select a chariot outside of the city, the it will not display the combat odd and it will not give me a list of the units at the square. For archers I do not see the problem. Attached are screenshots

1stcontact2035
Jun 13, 2011, 01:54 PM
The CTD that comes late in game happens every game for me and my friends. Even if we play on standard size and only 10 civs. I will try another and see what happens then. But I am sure we got a mem leak of some sort.

My Computer isn't great my today's standards or really any standards, and I was running 35 or 36 Civs on Giant Earth Map, vassals of 25 or so of them, I personally had control of 30% of the planet and with the vassals make the 40%, and 300+ units for me alone. And then, only when I declared war with Rome, it crashed. Of course I had to minimize all the non-game stuff like graphics, etc, but still I was using "only" 1.6 GB of memory. Which, if you aren't running 64 bit, at that point long before that point you're no longer playing Civ 4. But I didn't click every option, only the ones I liked, I downgraded graphics and related play options severely so I could keep playing whenever I came to a CTD, and it kept me going to 150 turns. With you playing on standard size with 10 civs and this still happening, my first inkling is that you are running a 32 bit system. Or that you are running with all options on and might have graphics way too high. The graphics, I've found on mods like this, are only to be played on high settings if you have a beast of machine. Also, make sure you have a video card that can handle the graphics (not saying buy a video card, upgrade your computer, etc... seriously, to finish the game I mentioned I'd actually have to spend $200 on upgrading my memory but that's just not feasible the way things are right now, really if you haven't already, downgrade graphics settings, and I hate to mention if but if you aren't running a 64 bit OS you really should consider that, even if you are like me and running less than 4 GB of memory). If that didn't apply to you... hopefully the creator of the mod can help. I just thought I'd put my two cents worth in, but hopefully I wasn't too abrasive in doing so :sad:

Also, something I've been posting a lot of lately... if you've done all of that already... and you recently installed Windows 7 64 bit, double check your paging file size. If you didn't change it when you upgraded to Windows 7 it will be the same size as the amount of ram you have. In my case I needed to add nearly 1.5 GB to the thing and (I forgot) that was probably more the winning factor in buying me those 150 turns than anything.

Koshling
Jun 13, 2011, 07:24 PM
I can't imagine why nuking would increase mem usage by 100mb (or even at all).

That's not what I was alluding to. The 100m growth over time is not that huge, and my point was that it was unlikely to be part of the causative symptom. However, consistently seeing the last log being about nuking before the crash is a smoking gun. I think therefore that you probably do not have a memory issue at all, and that the nuke code is somehow responsible for the crash (not for the modest memory growth).

Afforess
Jun 13, 2011, 07:31 PM
That's not what I was alluding to. The 100m growth over time is not that huge, and my point was that it was unlikely to be part of the causative symptom. However, consistently seeing the last log being about nuking before the crash is a smoking gun. I think therefore that you probably do not have a memory issue at all, and that the nuke code is somehow responsible for the crash (not for the modest memory growth).

I see. I ran a few test games already, starting in the modern era, AI autoplayed for 200 turns to let the AI setup and then gave me and the others a bunch of nukes. Then I proceeded to encourage a thermonuclear war, but I didn't crash. Admittedly, I exited out 10 turns after the world turned into a smoking crater.

Anyway, there are 2 separate nuke mods in AND. The MAD nukes mod, which only enables with the MAD civic, that allows for you to pre-target cities with nukes & Civ Feuhrer's nuke mod, which adds biological and world-destroying missile types. Not really sure what the cause is between them (or maybe a synergy of both...?) but I can run some test games and see if I can get it to CTD.

Requia
Jun 13, 2011, 08:06 PM
Possibly already fixed in three but putting it here in case somebody more recent can confirm:

I just got a message that kanesh (a 1 point city totally surrounded by my culture) was granted leave to join my nation, I clicked welcome back and then nothing. It's still controlled by the Hittite.

Koshling
Jun 13, 2011, 08:21 PM
Possibly already fixed in three but putting it here in case somebody more recent can confirm:

I just got a message that kanesh (a 1 point city totally surrounded by my culture) was granted leave to join my nation, I clicked welcome back and then nothing. It's still controlled by the Hittite.

That is definately not a new bug. I have had that happen in C2C v11, which at that rime was using AND 1.75 as it's base.

baha
Jun 14, 2011, 01:43 AM
After playing for aout 6 hours yesterday, I have found some minor problems:
1) The Chariot City Screen Problem (See previous page)
2) Units are not displayed correctly if they are fortrified: Axmen are displayed as Warriors, Longbowman as Spearman (Byzantine Civ) Furthermore, Swordman somtimes loose their textures and are displayed in pink.
3) When I have stack with a Great General (The one with the flag) and attack another stack, after the first attack, the units in my stack are selected by random. So, I can not simply attack one after the other, because it also selects units, that have no movement points left. I have to selct every unit one after the other in order to attack. It is quite annoying.

On the positive side: The round time have improved significantly from 1.75c. Great work, making the mod even better than it was!

Baha

1stcontact2035
Jun 14, 2011, 07:29 AM
I've read up on some more of the forums in here and I guess what I have to do is see if I can get into worldbuilder and kill off some of the many civs that are spamming the map. The only positive will be that the ones that are left will have expansion room unlike before and if I do some massive tech handouts, I might have some sort of competition in this game. Otherwise, I've got nothing. Even upping the paging file another 1 GB just bought me three turns, and it was probably me being extra cautious rather than anything else. I sort of feel like I outposted my welcome, here, though. Sorry.

Koshling
Jun 14, 2011, 08:10 AM
I've read up on some more of the forums in here and I guess what I have to do is see if I can get into worldbuilder and kill off some of the many civs that are spamming the map. The only positive will be that the ones that are left will have expansion room unlike before and if I do some massive tech handouts, I might have some sort of competition in this game. Otherwise, I've got nothing. Even upping the paging file another 1 GB just bought me three turns, and it was probably me being extra cautious rather than anything else. I sort of feel like I outposted my welcome, here, though. Sorry.

Not at all. It's just that we're all kinda snowed under and it's hard to give concrete advice until we manage to reproduce things ourselves. Bug reports and feedback are always appreciated and appologies when they appear to go unacknowledged.

1stcontact2035
Jun 14, 2011, 10:16 AM
Not at all. It's just that we're all kinda snowed under and it's hard to give concrete advice until we manage to reproduce things ourselves. Bug reports and feedback are always appreciated and appologies when they appear to go unacknowledged.

Thanks...

I did wind up having some of the smaller civs absorbed into the larger ones. From what I can tell that gets me down to something like 15 or so civs total. The game ran quicker and smoother after that but I didn't bother playing much so its not really "play-tested" in terms of a solution. The savegame file was basically the same size, though, although part of that is due to me handing out techs like crazy after doing this and the fact that I didn't just delete the cities I did some warmongering in worldbuilder and had various civs take over those cities. If this doesn't work I'll probably go back and simply delete the cities instead.

I did take note of some other things on my computer outside of Civ. As per the actual shortcut to Beyond the Sword, there was a suggestion somewhere that I work it to run on administrator privelages automatically, I tried but I was locked out for one reason or another. Windows after XP can be screwy with overdone security. In this case I can't get BTS to run on admin because there's no option to open the advanced settings as an admin, and there's no prompt for asking my admin permission on these things on this sort of stuff. It's also pretty bad because right below it is what I guess might be a solution to this whole thing "run in separate memory space"... both options are grayed out and I suppose figuring out how to click on them could be somewhat of a solution. I know that I have a monster 5.5 GB paging file which should be able to handle whatever my ram isn't handling... its just that my computer doesn't seem to be shifting memory over to the paging file (unless the mod is running up to 4 GB, and I seriously doubt that, I get the feeling Civ 4 is not accessing my paging file IF there is a MAF and not some bug).

1stcontact2035
Jun 14, 2011, 01:40 PM
After reviewing the log files... I forgot that I got impatient and quit the install for Warlords halfway through and that seems to be what the log files are indicating the problem is. I don't know why that's the problem, other than perhaps the mod/game are picking up Warlords as being there, but when they go to use stuff from it they find that its not there, and thus there's some sort of conflict and it causes problems. Basically the entire top three or four lines of the error log was spammed with "Warlord" this and "Warlord" that. And then some stuff about the BUG mod trying to debug everything and the game failing to initialize or something. I can't seem to get the error log to post as it is an invalid file... but I'll try uninstalling and reinstalling Warlords and go from there.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 14, 2011, 03:04 PM
I got this using 1.76 beta 4. Get it every now and then... I think it appears in the log on top of the screen when i selected certain techs.

20:21:58 TRACE: Error in techSelected event handler <bound method AutoLogEvent.onTechSelected of <autologEventManager.AutoLogEvent object at 0x545C9BD0>>
20:21:58 TRACE: integer division or modulo by zero

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 14, 2011, 04:33 PM
I got this using 1.76 beta 4. Get it every now and then... I think it appears in the log on top of the screen when i selected certain techs.

20:21:58 TRACE: Error in techSelected event handler <bound method AutoLogEvent.onTechSelected of <autologEventManager.AutoLogEvent object at 0x545C9BD0>>
20:21:58 TRACE: integer division or modulo by zero

Not a "real" error. It is an error while trying to log what is happening and does not affect the game.

I have a fix for that. We were getting it in C2C. unfortunately you can't use the C2C version because that file contains mod specific stuff, in this case prehistoric goody huts and the like. Afforess simple code fix.
def onTechSelected(self, argsList):
if (AutologOpt.isLogTechnology()):
iTechType, iPlayer = argsList
if iPlayer == CyGame().getActivePlayer():
researchProgress = gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getTeam()).getRes earchProgress(gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getCurrentRese arch())
overflowResearch = (gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getOverflowResearch() * gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).calculateResearchModifier(gc .getPlayer(iPlayer).getCurrentResearch()))/100
researchCost = gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getTeam()).getRes earchCost(gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getCurrentResearch ())
researchRate = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).calculateResearchRate(-1)
if researchRate == 0:
message = "Divide by zero in autologEventManager onTechSelected"
else:
zTurns = (researchCost - researchProgress - overflowResearch) / researchRate + 1
message = BugUtil.getText("TXT_KEY_AUTOLOG_RESEARCH_BEGUN", (PyInfo.TechnologyInfo(iTechType).getDescription() , zTurns))
Logger.writeLog(message, vColor="Green")



It is not actually doing something just reporting what has happened but sometimes it gets a divide by zero. I suspect it is when you are in anarchy but get a tech from a goody hut. Not that it matters.

Requia
Jun 14, 2011, 05:06 PM
Not at all. It's just that we're all kinda snowed under and it's hard to give concrete advice until we manage to reproduce things ourselves. Bug reports and feedback are always appreciated and appologies when they appear to go unacknowledged.

What data can I give you that will help you reproduce the bugs? Is there some way to dump all the options I'm using to a file so you can try the exact setup?

Koshling
Jun 14, 2011, 05:28 PM
What data can I give you that will help you reproduce the bugs? Is there some way to dump all the options I'm using to a file so you can try the exact setup?

Usually save games. The issue for me specifically is that I am primarily a C2C modder, so while we share the same DLL source it's actually built with different compile options and has differing functionality in some areas. This means I'd need to keep two sets of builds and assets to be able to load (and more importantly debug) save games from either AND or C2C.

Having said that a couple of things are worth noting:

1) If specific problems persist and Afforess needs me to look at them I'll spend the necessary time setting up a parallel build products environment so I can debug in the context of the AND flavor of the DLL build

2) For many problems they will likely be common to AND and C2C. See my posting about save-game compatibility elsewhere - it's a fairly ambitious (some might say mad!) use (abuse really) of the technology, but there's a fair chance I can coax it into loading AND save games for me into a C2C runtime context, which will probably be enough to reproduce many issues.

Requia
Jun 15, 2011, 01:03 AM
A realistic corporations bug: Moving from Senate to technocracy caused a *massive* spike in my corporation fees, but neither Senate nor technocracy claims to affect those on the civis screen or in the 'pedia.

Sepulchre
Jun 16, 2011, 08:00 AM
Excuse me if this has been said before but I'm not reading through 200+ pages haha.

I get a crash during INIT Graphics. The Mod has installed fine, and I go through loading and custom game options fine it's just when I've pressed ok and it starts to build the game it crashes. Always on this section.

Any suggestions?

I have a fully updated copy of Civ4 gold, new drivers for a 9650GT, running vista 32.

TheDisco
Jun 16, 2011, 08:48 AM
I just upgraded my "1.75C" to "1.76 beta 4" and I noticed I am getting some XML errors as the mod loads. Looks like it is an issue with some of the extra leaders that the core civ pack added (I didn't do the full megacivpak installs but I did do the core civpack that is recommended for Revolutions feature to work best). I get 7 XML errors for the following leaders:

Adenauer, Cartimandua, FrancisII, IndiraGandhi, Pachacuti, Richard, and Xerxes.

The errors say that either "Tag: CIVIC_PARLIAMENT" or "Tag: CIVIC_VASSALAGE" "in Info class was incorrect"

Basically, I am wondering if there is there anything I can do to manually fix this error (e.g., by changing the tag to something else and if so what should I change it to)? Or do I need to delete these leaders and/or reinstall with a fresh install? Or will it work ok even with these errors?

------------------------------------------------

Update: Looks like an easy manual fix. I think I just need to change those leader's "favorite civic" to something else. But I'm wondering what civics in 1.76 have replaced:

1) CIVIC_PARLIAMENT
2) CIVIC_VASSALAGE

NightKev
Jun 16, 2011, 09:24 AM
He took them out. See: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344528
So, any leader with those as their favorite civic will be 'broken'.

TheDisco
Jun 16, 2011, 09:40 AM
He took them out. See: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344528
So, any leader with those as their favorite civic will be 'broken'.

Ok, that makes sense. But weren't there some "standard" leaders (e.g., not from the extra civpak) that used to have those civics as their favorites? If so, I wonder what happened to their favorite civics? Were they just deleted or did they get changed to something else?

NightKev
Jun 16, 2011, 09:50 AM
He probably changed those when he deleted the civics.

1stcontact2035
Jun 16, 2011, 12:43 PM
Seems exiting out of Steam did the trick. Knocked off something like 10-20% of my memory usage. My Civ 4 doesn't run in Steam but apparently Steam didn't know that, and was eating up huge amounts of memory. I was wondering why this mod and map would play better in 32 bit Windows on the same system than 64 bit Windows.

baha
Jun 16, 2011, 03:02 PM
There seems to be a bug in beta 4 regarding the large city radius: my city can use already the large radius, without the need for the metropolitan administration!

Stormwind
Jun 16, 2011, 03:45 PM
3 city radius is also activated by a certain level of culture (but I never remember exactly which level :D)

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 16, 2011, 04:31 PM
There seems to be a bug in beta 4 regarding the large city radius: my city can use already the large radius, without the need for the metropolitan administration!

There are two ways of getting the third radius. With "Larger Cities" on you just need the cultural growth. With it off you need the building.

TheDisco
Jun 16, 2011, 09:40 PM
I think this might be a bug (1.76 beta 4):

When you adopt slavery the civic says you "Get 1 free slave in each city." However, you only get this free slave in the cities that existed at the time you converted to slavery. Any new cities you create after that don't seem to get this free slave.

But maybe this is how it is intended to work???

Afforess
Jun 16, 2011, 09:47 PM
I think this might be a bug (1.76 beta 4):

When you adopt slavery the civic says you "Get 1 free slave in each city." However, you only get this free slave in the cities that existed at the time you converted to slavery. Any new cities you create after that don't seem to get this free slave.

But maybe this is how it is intended to work???

Really? It should be for future cities too. I'll check the code.

JosEPh_II
Jun 18, 2011, 11:32 AM
Some feedback,
It's 985BC in my current beta3 upgraded to beta 4 game on Noble level, Giant Lakes Map with initially 7AI.

My style of play has always been rapid expansion. Even to the point of going bankrupt if it will secure my borders or give me a "Must have" resource. With that said, the AI has initially out done me. And I've had to push harder to try to keep within 2 or 3 cities of the leaders. I like this very much. Currently I've finally caught the leaders only because 1 of them( Egypt) Surprise attacked me, and destroyed a border/frontier city. I have managed to rebuild it and capture 1 of theirs during our war. I now own 16 cities as does 2 other AI.

The Barb civ inclusion into the core Mod surprised me and next game the city size will be increased from 3 to 5 before they become a Minor civ. Very Nasty surprise when the Iroquois went from a barb city I was planning on capturing to a Minor civ on my doorstep with a Stack of 10 fighting units lead by a GG! Fortunately for me the city they spawned next to was a size 6 at the time and I just kept building Archers. They ravaged the country side around this city but could not in the end take it. Even when they became a "full" Civ they did not stop their attacks until I brought in a force from my capital and razed their new 2nd built city. This caused the main Stack to head for home as I was then pillaging their Capital's worked tiles.

If all the "bugs" that used to be in Barb Civ are now all worked out, then the inclusion of it into the core mod is (for me) now acceptable. (Another adjustment in how I play ;) ) Just keep pushing this old mans play style.

Side track question which even Strategyonly hasn't answered, What happened to the "Original" Dido? The new one is okay (and could be used for another female leader), but the 1st one was Superior in aesthetics. And OH! so easy on the eyes. ;)

Now back to Feed back;
I still, of course, do not use Rev or Vassals, so my observations and impressions are sans those 2 options. The ability for units to now "claim" a border tile by camping on it is sneaky and so far a good "twist" in gameplay (at least for the player). I need to pay more attention to see if the AI actually uses it too.

Fun game so far. And that is Very important.

JosEPh :)

JosEPh_II
Jun 18, 2011, 10:40 PM
Some screenshots:
1st is Isabella flooding the world with scribes. Her "Spiritual" Trait at work
2nd is Missing Header (Military) in Foreign relations.
3rd is Joan of Arc making lopsided trade because she had at that time no copper, iron, or obsidian. (of course I said yes! ;) )

JosEPh :)

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 19, 2011, 01:21 AM
How do everyone feel about great generals? Personally I feel they are either too easy to get or they are overpowered... Reason being that I lost 30 odd heavy swordmen vs 1 crossbowman with great general in a city on grassland with a wall that I had reduced to 0%. And after the 30 heavy swordmen with city attack promotion had died i managed to lose another 15 crossbowmen against him too. I mean what is this? every move i made had like 0.08 % chance of winning? think he had like 95% bonus vs melee. But that doesnt explain the 15 crossbowmen i lost too. kind of getting frustrated now. How do you counter this? mounted only?

Dont laugh please, i am normaly a city builder and not a warrior so i am kind of noobish. :P

hehe

Edit: And to top it off after finaly not being able to kill him at all. It turned out that he had generals like this all over.... Noooo! Giving up!

baha
Jun 19, 2011, 03:30 AM
I have also seen the khmer flooding the map with its missionaries in my last game, maybe reduce the possibility to build by AI?
and yes, great generals are really, really strong. Grab some experience with the GG during eary stages of the game and you will have aultimate war machine later on. Maybe you should limit the number of leading GG to only one.

JosEPh_II
Jun 19, 2011, 08:56 AM
@Gomer,

I too am a builder vs warrior, that said I've found that sometimes you have to sacrifice siege units against a GG (after city walls are down) to weaken the GG. If it's primary bonus is against melee, and in this case sounds like archery too, then mounted needs to be in the mix. They are tough and I try to destroy them as soon as i spot them. But 45 units destroyed does seem OP. Need to give that GG the name of Samson or Hercules! ;)

Did you make a screenshot of the GG and the battle? Seeing one would help. Press Print Screen Button on your keyboard anytime during game play to make one.

JosEPh

Alornal
Jun 20, 2011, 04:03 AM
I've researched Long-Range Forecasting, but I cannot build the Weather Stations at all. I've already built the National Weather Service building but it doesn't mention the individual stations like it used to. There's no option to build the stations either in any of my cities.

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 05:30 AM
major bug in the latest revision!

i cant load a game!

tried both auto save, and regular - i get load failed along with some uncompressed data error.

the save i did (not the auto) i saved as regular bts - not compability.

plz fix it! i cant load my game !!

thanks :)

baha
Jun 20, 2011, 05:37 AM
major bug in the latest revision!

i cant load a game!

tried both auto save, and regular - i get load failed along with some uncompressed data error.

the save i did (not the auto) i saved as regular bts - not compability.

plz fix it! i cant load my game !!

thanks :)

I think 4 to 5 is not savegame comptilbe:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10605679&postcount=3866

Koshling
Jun 20, 2011, 06:01 AM
I think 4 to 5 is not savegame comptilbe:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10605679&postcount=3866

Correct. 4 to 5 is not save game compatible. This is a primary reason why I added the new format so this doesn't happen in future, but obviously that only helps from 5 onwards.

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 06:23 AM
hey koshling,

you didnt understand me,
i didnt mean beta 4 to 5 isnt compatible,


i started a game after yesterdays 476 new revision, already compiled the files - load game is not possible at all...

Koshling
Jun 20, 2011, 12:08 PM
hey koshling,

you didnt understand me,
i didnt mean beta 4 to 5 isnt compatible,


i started a game after yesterdays 476 new revision, already compiled the files - load game is not possible at all...

You're saying you can't load a game which you STARTED under beta 5? I thought you were saying you couldn't load the one you started under beta 4, which would have been as expected since as I confirmed, beta 4 to beta 5 is not save game compatible. If you can't load a game you started under beta 5 and you have it as a new format save (or can reproduce the issue with another game if you didnt have a new format save for your old one) post it and I'll take a look.

I assume the were no XML changes made at all during the course of this game By the way? (if there were then only the new format would be expected to work)

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 12:32 PM
hey koshling,

well this is the deal - i use and dll with my own xml (i have merged and into my own mod -
different techs, units, the whole shebang, and a few added sdk mods)
been doing that for a long time,
with the new revision - 476 - i cannot load any save game what so ever, not even an auto save.
tried a few times with the different formats - nada - loading crashed.

so - i got back a few revisions, added everything except the save game new codes in the sdk (i keep almost every revision i update for these reasons).
so now i have a working dll with everything you guys updated up to 476 - without the new save game protocol - and vou'lla, it works - i can do save load as i please.

i have double checked my merges and i didnt miss nothing,
all i can say that with revision 476 - i cannot load in either option - autosave, compatible save game and original bts: beta 5 to beta 5, not beta 4 to 5.

i suggest you try compiling the latest revision 476 that is currently up - and then try to use the dll and see if it loads fine for ya, im positive it wont work for you either, and if it will owrk for you, then i missed something.

i hope you can see the error, and its not only on my end, which im sure is not.
plz tell me if you need something from me to upload.
for now - i wont merge the save game code to my end.


p.s
the save game compability idea - its just brilliant i must say, although its not that crusial and more for players and testers - i think its one of the more brilliant components that was created here -superb work (when it will work for me too..:))


thank you,
kel.

Koshling
Jun 20, 2011, 12:41 PM
hey koshling,

well this is the deal - i use and dll with my own xml (i have merged and into my own mod -
different techs, units, the whole shebang, and a few added sdk mods)
been doing that for a long time,
with the new revision - 476 - i cannot load any save game what so ever, not even an auto save.
tried a few times with the different formats - nada - loading crashed.

so - i got back a few revisions, added everything except the save game new codes in the sdk (i keep almost every revision i update for these reasons).
so now i have a working dll with everything you guys updated up to 476 - without the new save game protocol - and vou'lla, it works - i can do save load as i please.

i have double checked my merges and i didnt miss nothing,
all i can say that with revision 476 - i cannot load in either option - autosave, compatible save game and original bts: beta 5 to beta 5, not beta 4 to 5.

i suggest you try compiling the latest revision 476 that is currently up - and then try to use the dll and see if it loads fine for ya, im positive it wont work for you either, and if it will owrk for you, then i missed something.

i hope you can see the error, and its not only on my end, which im sure is not.
plz tell me if you need something from me to upload.
for now - i wont merge the save game code to my end.


p.s
the save game compability idea - its just brilliant i must say, although its not that crusial and more for players and testers - i think its one of the more brilliant components that was created here -superb work (when it will work for me too..:))


thank you,
kel.

I am running with that and it's working fine for me. If you are able to (with the beta 5 DLL) start a game and save it as new format (and confirm it won't load just as a check) then send me the save game I'll take a look. The fact I have different assets shouldn't matter - the new format remaps enums, and prunes non-existant entities on load, so this should suffice as a start point for debugging...

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 12:47 PM
alright,
ill send you my dll + my source codes.

although - i have some new xml tags - wont that interfere with the game load? dont you need the schema's as well?

ill upload soon.

thanks.


*****
edit: here's my files - http://uploading.com/files/e6a186dc/sdk%2Bv15.exe/
thanks a lot!

Koshling
Jun 20, 2011, 01:02 PM
alright,
ill send you my dll + my source codes.

although - i have some new xml tags - wont that interfere with the game load? dont you need the schema's as well?

ill upload soon.

thanks.

You have new/different schema tags (and associated code support presumably)?? That would have to be properly included in the load/save serialization - if you can show me the changes you made to cope with those when you merged the format change code I'll see if I can see any possible errors in the merge.

Basically schema changes typically imply code changes and serialization changes (which I assume you knew since that's not new in any way). Info changes (against the same schema - so adding buildings etc.) do not require serialization changes, but will not correctly load under the old format between installations with different numbers of entities in any given class (they will under the new format). So if you have schema chnages (and presumably code changes that go with them) then yes I'll need those. If you just have info xml changes I wont need those, assuming it's a new format save you give me. PM me with an IM address if you are on MSN or GTALK or AOL or Steam.

Sapiento
Jun 20, 2011, 01:48 PM
Hi!

I get an error report everytime a player is conquering a city. Effect: no tech is acquired after conquering an enemy city (at least not when I conquer an AI city).

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 02:10 PM
Koshling hey,

ok then, ill pm you with the schemas, there are changes to the infos and the plot files.
ill provide you with the files.

i can be on msn.

anyways i might have thought of something that could cause the problem -
i have a mod merged named jculture and jimprovement -
ive noticed that areas of some parts of this mod, where changed -but i didnt changed the part of the mod to work accordingly casue i didnt get anuy errors in the compile.
im probably not explaining my self right.
this will clarify:
this line: pStream->Read(&m_ePlotType);
in the 476 revision: WRAPPER_READ(wrapper, "CvPlot", &m_ePlotType);

and the mods lines:
pStream->Read(&m_eImprovementOwner);
and i left it like that.

i know that the WRAPPER_READ is part of the new save code,

could this be the problem?

i dont wanna lay more work on you and im trying to figure this out so i wrote this here instead of a pm.

Koshling
Jun 20, 2011, 02:19 PM
Koshling hey,

ok then, ill pm you with the schemas, there are changes to the infos and the plot files.
ill provide you with the files.

i can be on msn.

anyways i might have thought of something that could cause the problem -
i have a mod merged named jculture and jimprovement -
ive noticed that areas of some parts of this mod, where changed -but i didnt changed the part of the mod to work accordingly casue i didnt get anuy errors in the compile.
im probably not explaining my self right.
this will clarify:
this line: pStream->Read(&m_ePlotType);
in the 476 revision: WRAPPER_READ(wrapper, "CvPlot", &m_ePlotType);

and the mods lines:
pStream->Read(&m_eImprovementOwner);
and i left it like that.

i know that the WRAPPER_READ is part of the new save code,

could this be the problem?

i dont wanna lay more work on you and im trying to figure this out so i wrote this here instead of a pm.

Yes, could well be, though pStream->Read() or pStream->Write() run the same code (in any way that matters) as WRAPPER_READ and WRAPPER_WRITE for old format saves (but NOT for new format). So simply not converting those could break new format but shouldn't break old format. However note that Afforess added new serialized data as well in the unit strength modifiers, so that would prevent loading anything saved from before the beta 5 changes.

Neither of those things should obviously break loading of an old format save that was SAVED by the beta 5 DLL though.

keldath
Jun 20, 2011, 02:26 PM
i see,
well its worth a try, ill convert that code to the new style and we'll see what happens.

im hoping i wont need your help after all,

thanks a lot koshling for the support, very kind of you.

p.s.
did you or affroess got a chance to look at my oos logs of multiplayer ?
im kind of a multiplayer junkie...sorry if im nagging.

mmeyerde
Jun 20, 2011, 02:37 PM
Dear Afforess,

thank you for this great gaming experience.

Unfortunately I got a problem during the industrial era. After the invention of early tanks I built some and sent them to war. Unfortunately whenever they win a fight they completely disappear from the map. I already reloaded the game but it did not help.

I experienced the same bug? with early marines, too. They win a battle and are gone :eek: . Other units (until modern era; I have to check later units.) remained in the game after they won the battle. Edit: Marines remained after attacking units on free fields. They only got lost after having attacked a city. Tanks got lost even on free fields. I also checked the military advisor. Even there the units are not listed anymore after the attack.

I provide you with a save game and hopefully the correct log file? I cannot find a file *.log in my directory. The only thing I found is this one: Rise of Mankind - A new Dawn configuration settings. I put it into the *.rar file. Do you need this one?

Do you need more explanations? Has anyone else experienced this?

Best regards.

Edit:

After rechecking... I am soooooo sorry, I did not see that the kamikaze promotion is sacrificing units.

But now I have got another question: While I was checking I was not able to attack some of my enemies' cities. Although I could move next to them, the city tile itself was marked red for not being able to enter it. I checked it with different units and with the world builder (I hope it is called like that in the English version. Mine is German). Is there one thing that hinders attacking enemy towns? After bombing them with light artillery I could attack them. What is causing this behaviour?

TheDisco
Jun 20, 2011, 03:41 PM
I'm running 1.76 beta 5 now and am having the following pretty major bugs:

1) I still get the bug where I get no free slave in cities that have been founded after converting to slavery (I get the free slave only in the cities that existed when converting to slavery)

2) I am getting some seriously messed up city maintenance costs. I was expanding like crazy and my city maintenance was negative! :crazyeye:

3) Probaby related to 2 above, but in the build menu any mouseover calculation that had any maintenance cost modifier seemed broken. The actual $ change was the statistic that was calculated wrong (or at least different than what the maintenance modifier X maintenance cost would indicate). This might be related to 2 above in that one may be causing the other?

szemek77
Jun 20, 2011, 04:06 PM
I found this: when you hover your cursor over an unit on the city screen it does not reveal the strength. Movement range only...

EDIT: Additionally, the courthouse is on one hand reducing maintenance by 25%, but the real effect says that you'll lose:gold: Maybe I don't get sth here

EDIT 2: What about AI selling a 2000+:science: tech for...... potatoes?

TheDisco
Jun 20, 2011, 04:55 PM
I found this: when you hover your cursor over an unit on the city screen it does not reveal the strength. Movement range only...

EDIT: Additionally, the courthouse is on one hand reducing maintenance by 25%, but the real effect says that you'll lose:gold: Maybe I don't get sth here

EDIT 2: What about AI selling a 2000+:science: tech for...... potatoes?

Regarding your courthouse issue, it is one of the examples from my issue #3 just before your post. I think city maintenance costs are calculating incorrectly across the board...

Alornal
Jun 20, 2011, 07:46 PM
But now I have got another question: While I was checking I was not able to attack some of my enemies' cities. Although I could move next to them, the city tile itself was marked red for not being able to enter it. I checked it with different units and with the world builder (I hope it is called like that in the English version. Mine is German). Is there one thing that hinders attacking enemy towns? After bombing them with light artillery I could attack them. What is causing this behaviour?

City Gatehouse. Units cannot enter/attack unless defense of the city is <25%. There's a slight chance they can if a certain building is also present; I can't remember it because I never build it. :p

Anyone see my question about the Weather Forecast building?

Afforess
Jun 20, 2011, 09:08 PM
I've researched Long-Range Forecasting, but I cannot build the Weather Stations at all. I've already built the National Weather Service building but it doesn't mention the individual stations like it used to. There's no option to build the stations either in any of my cities.

IIRC, I removed the stations, the NWS just gives the promotions to all units instead, or something like that.

Sapiento
Jun 20, 2011, 10:07 PM
Hi!

I get an error report everytime a player is conquering a city. Effect: no tech is acquired after conquering an enemy city (at least not when I conquer an AI city).

Does anyone have an idea for this issue?

Afforess
Jun 20, 2011, 10:16 PM
Does anyone have an idea for this issue?

Not without logs. Turn on error logging (lots of postings in the RoM forums on how to - use google ;) ) and then cause the error to appear. Then upload the logs folder. ;)

mmeyerde
Jun 20, 2011, 11:58 PM
City Gatehouse. Units cannot enter/attack unless defense of the city is <25%. There's a slight chance they can if a certain building is also present; I can't remember it because I never build it. :p

Anyone see my question about the Weather Forecast building?

Ah, that might be the solution.

Thank you.

Regards

Alornal
Jun 21, 2011, 04:19 AM
IIRC, I removed the stations, the NWS just gives the promotions to all units instead, or something like that.

Thanks, but the NWS doesn't offer the upgrades, just two free scientists. The Sevopedia lists the Weather Stations as still granting the upgrades, so I was confused. Are the upgrades supposed to be disabled then, since nothing ingame offers them?

Sapiento
Jun 21, 2011, 04:52 AM
Not without logs. Turn on error logging (lots of postings in the RoM forums on how to - use google ;) ) and then cause the error to appear. Then upload the logs folder. ;)

Turned on. Here it is.

Koshling
Jun 21, 2011, 07:52 AM
I noticed (and was confused by) an issue with the text presented for a potential building choice in the city screen yesterday. My game is C2C so the particular buuilding and civics may not apply to AND (not sure, but there are analogous cases definately). In my case the building was a Seminary which requires one of State Chruch or Free Church civics to be in operation. I was in Free Chrurch at the time.

When I hovered over the seminary in the choice list the text said 'requires state church' which confused me.

The requires XXX lines associated with civics are coded to only show the requirements that you lack. This makes a certain amount of sense in the AND requirements but is confusing for the OR ones (since it tells you that you need something when you already have the necessary requirements)

Initailly I was going to fix the code to only display OR requirements if NONE of them are currently fulfilled (which would be consistent in effect with what you get for AND requirements). However, it then occurred to me that if I am in civic X which is supporting a building I'd really like to know what alternative civic would ALSO support it to help with my civic-changing decisions. That would be an argument for always displaying the OR requirements regardless of whether one or more is fulfilled.

I'm not sure what the least confusing option is here, so I'd welcome some opinions. In the absence of other suggestiosn I'll probably just push a fix to hide the OR requiremenst if one is fulfilled, for semantic consistency with the AND display, but I don't really think this is ideal...

Edit - I understand what's going on better now, and I'm planning to change it (see below).

Currently help text (whether hover text or actual Civopedia entry generated text) only displays conditions that it cannot evaluate as met in the context of the particular text generation. Those it cannot evaluate as met it displays in red (so unevaluatable conditions like required pre-req buildings when viewing the Civopedia from a context other than a particular city screen, show up along with ones it KNOWS you don't meet). Some consequences of this are:

Building (or unit) hover text in the city screen never shows the conditions required that are currently met, even if at some future time they may no longer be met (so a civic that is currently in force which is required for example). This measn when you check out the hover help you won't be aware that what you are building will cease to function when you change a civic (or at least which civic change will break it)
OR conditions may 'half' show up as in my initial example, which caused me some confusion
Worst of all (IMO) when you look at the Civopedia entry for a building/unit outside of the context of a city just to learn about it, any conditions on it that happen to be met at the time (civics is the best example) won't be mentioned at all. So even looking at things in the Civopedia won't clue you in that the building might go non-operational on some civic change (actually it will mention that civis are required but not which!)

I propose to change the text generation (at least for civic requirements on buildings for now - will consider more general application later) so that all conditions always appear but the color highlighting tells you whether the condition is currently met or not (so only conditions that are not currently met will appear in red, thsoe that are in normal non-warning text).

Opinions welcome...

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Jun 21, 2011, 08:45 AM
I've found 2 bugs, one that's been recurring since Pre-Beta's I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned, the 2nd I've only just noticed.

Bugs;

1. We enjoy our freedom from the oppression of Slavery, gives -1, instead of the promised +1 in civopedia, AND I DON'T have slavery tech, or civic option.

2. Chopping a forest pre mining, 2/3 turns (normal speed), mining comes in and can only mine for the full 7 turns. No longer able to chop, 1 turn, then mine, have to mine for the full 7 turns, as per BTS game.

3. Espionage seem over powered, 1 Billion % for having holy city of Religion and running church I think, Previous postings on this, another Million % for Walls, (Civopedia only, haven't tried)

keldath
Jun 21, 2011, 02:46 PM
hey koshling,

just letting you know that i found the problem that i told you bout save problem -i was what we talked about.

thank you again.

Prak, the Mad
Jun 21, 2011, 03:59 PM
Ok, so I haven't seen a solution to this problem, though please correct me if I'm wrong.

C++ Virtual Runtime Error, program requested to terminate in an unusual manner.

My computer:
Vista, Service Pack 2
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor
2 GB RAM
32-bit Op. system

Sometimes game runs several hours just fine, sometimes it quits after one, sometimes it quits after just five minutes.

JosEPh_II
Jun 21, 2011, 04:04 PM
LAN games are working in Beta 4 version. Played 2+ hrs the other night. Neither Human player could out build the french in building new cities. Almost a 2 to 1 ratio. :goodjob:

JosEPh :D

keldath
Jun 21, 2011, 04:22 PM
JosEPh_II,

thats good news! you didnt have oos at all?

id love to know how far in the game youve reached, caue i wanna play and on mp and im affraid of those red oos messages....

Koshling
Jun 21, 2011, 05:39 PM
hey koshling,

just letting you know that i found the problem that i told you bout save problem -i was what we talked about.

thank you again.

Good :-) I am intending to write a guide for DLL modders on the new save format and how to ensure compatibility, but as with so many things, I haven't found the time yet.

Afforess
Jun 21, 2011, 06:02 PM
Turned on. Here it is.

Thank you! Exactly what I need. Will get it fixed. ;)

Afforess
Jun 21, 2011, 06:03 PM
Ok, so I haven't seen a solution to this problem, though please correct me if I'm wrong.

C++ Virtual Runtime Error, program requested to terminate in an unusual manner.

My computer:
Vista, Service Pack 2
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor
2 GB RAM
32-bit Op. system

Sometimes game runs several hours just fine, sometimes it quits after one, sometimes it quits after just five minutes.

Post a save.

Afforess
Jun 21, 2011, 06:07 PM
I've found 2 bugs, one that's been recurring since Pre-Beta's I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned, the 2nd I've only just noticed.

Bugs;

1. We enjoy our freedom from the oppression of Slavery, gives -1, instead of the promised +1 in civopedia, AND I DON'T have slavery tech, or civic option.

2. Chopping a forest pre mining, 2/3 turns (normal speed), mining comes in and can only mine for the full 7 turns. No longer able to chop, 1 turn, then mine, have to mine for the full 7 turns, as per BTS game.

3. Espionage seem over powered, 1 Billion % for having holy city of Religion and running church I think, Previous postings on this, another Million % for Walls, (Civopedia only, haven't tried)

1.) Normal - it's just the way it was coded. It is subtracting angry faces. It works fine. You get it when other players you have met are using slaves but you are not.

2.) Hmm... I guess I need to look into this.

3) Not sure what you mean - can you post a screenshot?

IPEX-731BA5DD06
Jun 21, 2011, 08:37 PM
1. Freedom from Slavery http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/FreedomfromSlavery.png

Note on 1st, it can be too crippling to an early economy, even by running slavery, you get the 1 free specialist, which offsets the -1 from running slavery. It should be, in my gaming opinion, no penalty for not running it, but when you do, you lose 1 pop point or -1, with an additional -1 for each other met civ running the civic, so you lose out on the 1 free slave specialist, and more with others also running the civic, making it more unattractive option.

3. Religious overpowered. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/Religiousspyingoverboard.png

2nd screen shot

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/StateChurch.png

Overpowered, I think so, I played games where just 1 or 2 turns, gives enough espionage, once I own the Holy city, to steal or do anything I want, without having to run this civic ever again. Just too TOO OVER POWERED.

Prak, the Mad
Jun 21, 2011, 08:53 PM
Post a save.

A game save, you mean? k, once I've got the game back up.

...ok, how do I do that? When I view my save folder there's nothing there.

1stcontact2035
Jun 21, 2011, 10:44 PM
OK, posting the text from the python error log file. Can't seem to get the attachment to post to the forums.

sys.path = ['..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\email', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\encodings', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\build', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale' , '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\py', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\co lourchooser', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\ed itor', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\fl oatcanvas', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\ma sked', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\mi xins', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\og l', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \af', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ca', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \cs', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \da', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \de', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \el', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \es', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \eu', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fi', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fr', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hi', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hu', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \id', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \it', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ja', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \lv', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nb', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pt_BR', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ru', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sv', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \tr', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \uk', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_CN', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_TW', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \af\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ca\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \cs\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \da\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \de\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \el\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \es\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \eu\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fi\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fr\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hi\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hu\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \id\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \it\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ja\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \lv\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nb\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pt_BR\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ru\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sv\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \tr\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \uk\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_CN\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_TW\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\py\\tes ts', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools\\ XRCed', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools\\ XRCed\\src-images', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM']

sys.modules = {'zipimport': <module 'zipimport' (built-in)>, 'signal': <module 'signal' (built-in)>, '__builtin__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, 'sys': <module 'sys' (built-in)>, '__main__': <module '__main__' (built-in)>, 'exceptions': <module 'exceptions' (built-in)>, 'CvPythonExtensions': <module 'CvPythonExtensions' (built-in)>}

sys.builtin_module_names = ('CvPythonExtensions', '__builtin__', '__main__', '_bisect', '_codecs', '_codecs_cn', '_codecs_hk', '_codecs_iso2022', '_codecs_jp', '_codecs_kr', '_codecs_tw', '_csv', '_heapq', '_hotshot', '_locale', '_multibytecodec', '_random', '_sre', '_subprocess', '_symtable', '_weakref', '_winreg', 'array', 'audioop', 'binascii', 'cPickle', 'cStringIO', 'cmath', 'collections', 'datetime', 'errno', 'exceptions', 'gc', 'imageop', 'imp', 'itertools', 'marshal', 'math', 'md5', 'mmap', 'msvcrt', 'nt', 'operator', 'parser', 'regex', 'rgbimg', 'sha', 'signal', 'strop', 'struct', 'sys', 'thread', 'time', 'xxsubtype', 'zipimport')
load_module CvEventInterface
load_module BugEventManager
load_module CvEventManager
load_module CvUtil
load_module traceback
load_module CvScreensInterface
load_module CvMainInterface
load_module ScreenInput
load_module CvScreenEnums
load_module time
load_module BugDll
load_module BugOptions
load_module BugConfig
load_module BugCore
load_module BugUtil
load_module BugPath
load_module BugConfigTracker
load_module ColorUtil
load_module BugInit
load_module BugTypes
load_module xmllib
..\WARLORDS\ASSETS\PYTHON\SYSTEM\xmllib.py:9: DeprecationWarning: The xmllib module is obsolete. Use xml.sax instead.
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugConfig - registering xml handler BugConfig.RootHandler
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugConfig - registering bug handler BugConfig.BugHandler
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugConfig - registering load handler BugConfig.LoadHandler
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugConfig - registering config handler BugConfig.ConfigHandler
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugConfig - registering arg handler BugConfig.ArgHandler
load_module configobj
load_module __future__
load_module codecs
load_module validate
validate import failed
load_module RevInstances
load_module BugOptionsScreen
load_module BugErrorOptionsTab
load_module BugOptionsTab
load_module BugHelp
load_module Popup
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Core
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod MainInterface
load_module CityUtil
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod NJAGC
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Scores
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod CityScreen
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Revolution
load_module ReligionUtil
load_module FontUtil
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod PLE
load_module Scoreboard
load_module DealUtil
load_module PlayerUtil
load_module TradeUtil
load_module DiplomacyUtil
load_module AttitudeUtil
load_module GameUtil
load_module BugUnitPlot
load_module MonkeyTools
load_module PyHelpers
load_module UnitUtil
load_module ReminderEventManager
load_module SdToolKit
load_module BugData
load_module cPickle
load_module autolog
load_module CvModName
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Autolog
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Reminder
load_module CvAppInterface
load_module GGUtil
load_module GPUtil
load_module ProgressBarUtil
load_module PLE
load_module AStarTools
load_module CvMADNukesManager
load_module math
load_module RawYields
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod RoMSettings
load_module CvTechChooser
load_module TechPrefs
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod Advisors
load_module CvForeignAdvisor
load_module CvExoticForeignAdvisor
load_module IconGrid_BUG
load_module DomPyHelpers
load_module TechTree
load_module FavoriteCivicDetector
load_module CvReligionScreen
load_module CvCorporationScreen
load_module CvCivicsScreen
load_module CvVictoryScreen
load_module TechUtil
load_module CvEspionageAdvisor
load_module SpyUtil
load_module BugScreen
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod BetterEspionage
load_module CvOptionsScreen
load_module CvReplayScreen
load_module CvHallOfFameScreen
load_module CvDanQuayle
load_module CvGameUtils
load_module CvUnVictoryScreen
load_module CvDawnOfMan
load_module Buffy
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod BUFFY
load_module GameSetUpCheck
load_module AutoSave
load_module MapFinder
load_module MapFinderStatusScreen
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod MapFinder
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod AutoSave
load_module CvTechSplashScreen
load_module CvTopCivs
load_module random
load_module CvInfoScreen
load_module CvIntroMovieScreen
load_module CvVictoryMovieScreen
load_module CvWonderMovieScreen
load_module CvEraMovieScreen
load_module CvSpaceShipScreen
load_module SevoScreenEnums
load_module CvWorldBuilderScreen
load_module CvWorldBuilderDiplomacyScreen
load_module CvDebugTools
load_module CvDebugInfoScreen
load_module CvMapGeneratorUtil
load_module CvGFCScreen
load_module CvPopupInterface
load_module CvScreenUtilsInterface
load_module CvOverlayScreenUtils
load_module CvDotMapOverlayScreen
load_module CvStrategyOverlay
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod StrategyOverlay
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod CustDomAdv
23:07:10 INFO : BugCore - creating uninitialized mod TechWindow
init-ing world builder screen
load_module CvWBPopups
load_module CvCameraControls
load_module CvAdvisorUtils
load_module InputUtil
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugUtil - extending BugEventManager.preGameStart instead CvAppInterface
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'PreGameStart'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'BeginActivePlayerTurn'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'SwitchHotSeatPlayer'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'LanguageChanged'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'ResolutionChanged'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'PythonReloaded'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'unitUpgraded'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'unitCaptured'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'combatWithdrawal'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'combatRetreat'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'combatLogCollateral'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'combatLogFlanking'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'playerRevolution'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugEventManager - adding event 'addTeam'
23:07:10 DEBUG: BugInit - game not fully initialized
PY:OnInit

1stcontact2035
Jun 21, 2011, 10:52 PM
I have a much earlier savegame file attached here which, honestly, if I didn't downsize graphics drastically, etc., I'd be experiencing crashes/freezes on. I don't know which would be more helpful, the savegame file or the log. As per why not posting these before... its been a nightmare the past couple of weeks and I only just now got to this at 1 am tonight.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 22, 2011, 01:08 AM
I agree with statechurch being OPed. It is like why every change? Its like that with lots of other civics too i feel. But that is only me. I tend to find some i like and stay there. hehe

baha
Jun 22, 2011, 01:15 AM
Beta5:
If you hover the mouse over a unit, the preview will not display its strength. Only movement points and experience.

Stormwind
Jun 22, 2011, 03:38 AM
Beta 5:
When a city decides to join my empire and I welcome them back, nothing happens. They remain in their old empire.

Logs attached.

293375

Afforess
Jun 22, 2011, 05:14 AM
Beta 5:
When a city decides to join my empire and I welcome them back, nothing happens. They remain in their old empire.

Logs attached.

293375

Do you have a save from a turn before?

Stormwind
Jun 22, 2011, 05:36 AM
Here it is, switch should happen in the next few turns (happened the next and the one after mostly)

I also rechecked my version and I'm pretty sure its revision 476, I don't know which was build into Beta5


293380

1stcontact2035
Jun 22, 2011, 06:57 AM
3. Religious overpowered. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/Religiousspyingoverboard.png

2nd screen shot

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Rise%20of%20Mankind%20Mod/RAND/StateChurch.png

Overpowered, I think so, I played games where just 1 or 2 turns, gives enough espionage, once I own the Holy city, to steal or do anything I want, without having to run this civic ever again. Just too TOO OVER POWERED.

I've seen this bug on various mods ranging from Planetfall to this one (sorry, can't recall all the mods at this time). I do know that its always the same arbitrarily high number that gets plopped down and my guess is that's Civ's version of infinity in percentage calculations. Somehow the upper limit value for espionage got deleted in that case (i.e. left blank)... its the only thing that makes sense, since that would have Civ either crashing or filling in the blank as best it can and "as best it can" will most likely be reading the lack of value as the upper limitation on the value.

Ludovic
Jun 22, 2011, 01:33 PM
Hello:

I would like to know how to play GEM map with AND 1.75. Ive got the "Run Time error" message every time. Maybe the needed caracteristics of my computer, if necesary, will be ok

Many thanks

keldath
Jun 22, 2011, 05:02 PM
Koshling,

i dunno if you should write a guide for the save game - to me it seems very simple - if your a tester of the beta, just use the new save format :)

you got fish to fry huh?

:)

Koshling
Jun 22, 2011, 06:36 PM
Koshling,

i dunno if you should write a guide for the save game - to me it seems very simple - if your a tester of the beta, just use the new save format :)

you got fish to fry huh?

:)

I meant a technical guide for people making changes to the DLL code in future.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 22, 2011, 10:26 PM
I see you still have the following error in your CvMainInterface.py not that we have that number of corporations.

iButtonSpace = 0
elif (iCountCorporations == 18):
iButtonSize = 13
iButtonSpace = 0
elif (37 > iCountReligions > 18):
iMaxButtons = 18
iButtonSize = 13
iButtonSpace = 0
elif (iCountCorporations == 37) or (iCountCorporations == 38):
iMaxWidth = 240

Bearsbandit53
Jun 22, 2011, 10:44 PM
First of all this is an excellent but I was using the MAD Nukes option and it would not show the options menu when I pressed the button after selecting the civic or by pressing Alt-N. Is there something that has to be done prior besides the civic in order to use the component?

Afforess
Jun 22, 2011, 11:02 PM
First of all this is an excellent but I was using the MAD Nukes option and it would not show the options menu when I pressed the button after selecting the civic or by pressing Alt-N. Is there something that has to be done prior besides the civic in order to use the component?

Nope. Just gave myself Advanced Rocketry and switched to MAD and I got the rocket icon and could open the menu.

Turn on python error logging (plenty of guides on how already) and try again, and upload your logs if it still fails.

baha
Jun 23, 2011, 02:23 AM
Some balancing feedback:

Monarchy civic is too strong: on large maps and long times, the +1 happy per military unit can be abused. Even on immortal i keep all cities quiet by troops. I would inrtoduce a max number like maximum of +3 happy by miltary force.

Free church is still to strong: why do I get a +20% building bonus for factories if the church is free? Makes no sense to me, especially in late game.

I like the trading resources for techs, nbut the contract time is too short. On marathon speed I can cancel the deal after 10 turns. This is too cheap for a tech. If it would be something like 25 turns, would make it more balanced.

JosEPh_II
Jun 23, 2011, 04:51 PM
JosEPh_II,

thats good news! you didnt have oos at all?

id love to know how far in the game youve reached, caue i wanna play and on mp and im affraid of those red oos messages....

My son and I made it to 3065BC before I had to call it a night. And we had zero oos.

Remember this was a Lan Multiplayer. I have 4 computers hooked up in the house thru a router. Son's computer uses Vista and I use Win XP Pro x64. Once we got the network bugs worked out the game played flawlessly. Vista has too many security features and sometimes has trouble seeing a XP OS over a network using MSHome as the workgroup. But my oldest son was a computer repairman at one time and ironed out the problem of "seeing each other" in a short time.

JosEPh

Prak, the Mad
Jun 23, 2011, 09:13 PM
I found out where my saves were going, and I'll post one soon, I just wanted to check a normal, RoM, and RaND game through to see if I can pinpoint what's giving me the errors.

baha
Jun 24, 2011, 03:04 AM
I noticed some wird behaviour:
Even I have gold in the diplomacy screen, I do not have it in the city screen. Attached screenshots and my save.

Afforess
Jun 24, 2011, 05:17 AM
I noticed some wird behaviour:
Even I have gold in the diplomacy screen, I do not have it in the city screen. Attached screenshots and my save.

Likely because you are using Coinage. Read the civic description.

baha
Jun 24, 2011, 06:11 AM
Actually I am using Guilds, please look at this screenshot: There are 2 silver mines, wile it says cat is having 1 and exporting one. This time I can see the silver in my Cityscreen...

Edit, sorry, I just realized that this behaviour is correct.. Still I do not have Gold in the city screen and I can not build a jewelry.

TheDisco
Jun 24, 2011, 12:22 PM
A few additional bugs (in addition to earlier ones I posted regarding maintenance and slavery) I noticed during current game (beta 5)

1) I think AI trading of money/techs for per turn resources needs to be fixed. First, they offer ludicrous amounts of money/techs for only 10 turns of a resource. Also, when it is the computer trading away the per turn resource, it never actually cancels it after 10 turns (like the human player will). I have an AI giving my gold per turn so far FOREVER even though he could have cancelled long ago (he is getting absolutely nothing in return)

2) Is fixed borders actually working? I was near a neighbor and we both had monarchy with fixed borders, but my culture spread over his border and ended up flipping a tile.

3) This is a minor bug but thought it was interesting. When you have a cottage that you aren't working, forest and jungle can actually overgrow it, which then allows the tile to have both a cottage and forest/jungle. Then when you start working the tile you get both the cottage/hamlet/etc benefit plus the extra hammer for the forest...

Cykur
Jun 24, 2011, 03:22 PM
Feedback:

1. I noticed Fisherman's Hut got a +1 per worked tile bonus. This can make the building way too powerful for a city with a lot of worked water tiles -- the Lighthouse is already providing this benefit.

The other observation about this building is that it gives food resource benefits from empire wide resources though it is a building unlocked by local vicinity requirements. My suggestion would be to just remove +1 per tile benefit and have this building give a nice flat bonus of +2 or +3 if it can be built due to a local resource.

2. Fish Traps seems like a redundant building, and it also was at some point in the past conceived as a river building as well as a Coastal building. For a tiny early game food boost, why not remove the vicinity requirements and have this building give +1 food to cities that meet the coastal / river requirement. This would distinguish it from the Fisherman's Hut, and the building becomes obsolete eventually anyhow (Biology?).

3. Grocer is still being replaced by Supermarket. The Grocer is a building that gives a financial benefit and has many resource bonuses while the Supermarket gives a tiny food benefit. Right now it doesn't make sense to upgrade. Either the Supermarket should be an attractive upgrade, or it shouldn't replace the Grocer since it has different benefits.

Afforess
Jun 24, 2011, 04:59 PM
A few additional bugs (in addition to earlier ones I posted regarding maintenance and slavery) I noticed during current game (beta 5)

1) I think AI trading of money/techs for per turn resources needs to be fixed. First, they offer ludicrous amounts of money/techs for only 10 turns of a resource. Also, when it is the computer trading away the per turn resource, it never actually cancels it after 10 turns (like the human player will). I have an AI giving my gold per turn so far FOREVER even though he could have cancelled long ago (he is getting absolutely nothing in return)

2) Is fixed borders actually working? I was near a neighbor and we both had monarchy with fixed borders, but my culture spread over his border and ended up flipping a tile.

3) This is a minor bug but thought it was interesting. When you have a cottage that you aren't working, forest and jungle can actually overgrow it, which then allows the tile to have both a cottage and forest/jungle. Then when you start working the tile you get both the cottage/hamlet/etc benefit plus the extra hammer for the forest...

1.) Fixing it would be simple, if you could give me a save on a turn where offering a resource made the AI offer insane things.

2.) Really? Upload a save from a few turns before.

3.) Hmm. Should not be happening.

Afforess
Jun 24, 2011, 05:03 PM
Feedback:

1. I noticed Fisherman's Hut got a +1 per worked tile bonus. This can make the building way too powerful for a city with a lot of worked water tiles -- the Lighthouse is already providing this benefit.

The other observation about this building is that it gives food resource benefits from empire wide resources though it is a building unlocked by local vicinity requirements. My suggestion would be to just remove +1 per tile benefit and have this building give a nice flat bonus of +2 or +3 if it can be built due to a local resource.

2. Fish Traps seems like a redundant building, and it also was at some point in the past conceived as a river building as well as a Coastal building. For a tiny early game food boost, why not remove the vicinity requirements and have this building give +1 food to cities that meet the coastal / river requirement. This would distinguish it from the Fisherman's Hut, and the building becomes obsolete eventually anyhow (Biology?).

3. Grocer is still being replaced by Supermarket. The Grocer is a building that gives a financial benefit and has many resource bonuses while the Supermarket gives a tiny food benefit. Right now it doesn't make sense to upgrade. Either the Supermarket should be an attractive upgrade, or it shouldn't replace the Grocer since it has different benefits.

1.) Nice catch! Will do.

2.) This is an optional building - you can turn it off by disabling Early Buildings. Not sure what/how to change it.

3.) Okay, I fill fix this.

keldath
Jun 24, 2011, 05:50 PM
1) I think AI trading of money/techs for per turn resources needs to be fixed. First, they offer ludicrous amounts of money/techs for only 10 turns of a resource. Also, when it is the computer trading away the per turn resource, it never actually cancels it after 10 turns (like the human player will). I have an AI giving my gold per turn so far FOREVER even though he could have cancelled long ago (he is getting absolutely nothing in return)

noticed that too...its no fun - i changed a bit the max gold tags n the leader xml. didnt check it yet, i hoped tat will help a little.

Cykur
Jun 24, 2011, 06:01 PM
1.) Nice catch! Will do.

2.) This is an optional building - you can turn it off by disabling Early Buildings. Not sure what/how to change it.



re: Fish Traps

I think it is a good early building if it just gives a simple +1 food yield bonus for coastal or river cities with no resource bonus requirement. Some early cities without food resources suffer a bit, especially coastal ones before they can build the lighthouse. This would make it a unique and fitting ancient era building with minimal impact later in the game before it becomes obsolete.

It really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but we start so many games we notice these early buildings.

On another note,

1. Why do Graveyards now give a research bonus? Seems odd.

2. In my last game, I noticed the Artist's Guild seemed too powerful with a 50% bonus to culture. Usually I'm pretty happy if I can get 3-5 culture out of a building, and it was giving 15-25 culture to my large late game cities.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 24, 2011, 06:15 PM
1. Why do Graveyards now give a research bonus? Seems odd.

Think medical research. Either when preparing the bodies for burial or grave snatching to sell the corpses to medical students for anatomy classes.

Afforess
Jun 24, 2011, 06:23 PM
2. In my last game, I noticed the Artist's Guild seemed too powerful with a 50% bonus to culture. Usually I'm pretty happy if I can get 3-5 culture out of a building, and it was giving 15-25 culture to my large late game cities.

Lined up next to the extra hammers from the blacksmitchs guilds, or gold from the merch guilds, it's fairly balanced.

Cykur
Jun 24, 2011, 06:24 PM
Think medical research. Either when preparing the bodies for burial or grave snatching to sell the corpses to medical students for anatomy classes.

It is still a big stretch. You don't need the Graveyard for this, you need the medical research building. To me this is just another example of how a building gets over-engineered with too many disparate benefits. Graveyards made a lot of sense with a health and happiness benefit; no more dumping bodies in the Ganges + visiting graves to pay respects made people feel good.

Cykur
Jun 24, 2011, 06:28 PM
Lined up next to the extra hammers from the blacksmitchs guilds, or gold from the merch guilds, it's fairly balanced.

Oh, that may be. I actually had Guilds turned off in that game, but the Artist's guild was still buildable.

I think culture is a little out of control in general late game because even when a building is obsolete, it still gives its culture bonus, unlike some of the hammer / gold buildings which eventually get replaced.

JosEPh_II
Jun 24, 2011, 09:30 PM
Seems that when I build a railroad on a Mine tile I don't get the extra Hammer. Is there another prerequisite? Same for Workshop.

I also noticed that sometimes I would get the extra hammer on a mine when I went from road to paved, but not always. Is this due to Mine shaft requirements?

I finally got the tech that adds 1 gold to Jungle camp. Unfortunately I'm the only empire left that even has a Jungle Camp. The AI seems to disregard the JC. Only very early when the 2 food is useful will an AI build one. But if a farm or cottage can be made on that Jungle tile the camp is Not the AI's choice. They all seem quite happy to chop all jungle down to get the hammers from chopping. Seems Vincentz original idea of JC getting a Hammer boost with road improvements has been discarded. And without a hammer available the AI won't build it. Which also reminded me that a JC on a hill has a hammer removed (- :hammer: ). This further negates the AI's choice of using JC. And actually discourages the player too. So the JC is a 3rd class citizen in the tile improvement nation. :p

JosEPh

Cykur
Jun 24, 2011, 10:36 PM
Jungle camps are kind of an early game improvement to make a jungle city viable that eventually get replaced. A big problem is how jungles contribute to unhealthiness and stops cities from growing too large -- damn mosquitoes.

maximhar
Jun 25, 2011, 03:35 AM
I have been playing with England and I am in the early modern era by now.
Now what is weird is that I still find Barter to be the best economic civic available.
With Barter I got +500 to +600 gold/turn, with science rate at 100% at Noble difficulty.
Switching to Free Market yields the terrible -1700 gold/turn, because of huge inflation. To get the budget under control I had to bring down the science to 60%...
I am sensing that either I am doing something very wrong, or this is a serious balance issue that needs to get fixed. Version is 1.76 Beta 5.
prtsc from the economy advisor:http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6830/wowfu.png[/URL]

Lord Mayor
Jun 25, 2011, 06:52 AM
Hi, I'm not exactly new to this forum, been reading since I first played civ4, but never registered. I'm playing RoM AND (started about one year ago) and seeing how you all struggle to improve the game I couldn't resist :)

Regarding maximhar's post: Barter Economy seems overpowered, especially combined with State Church (if I'm not mistaken), which gives +25% gold per each religious wonder (Mahabodhi, Church of Nativity etc.) and Patrician (+1 gold per specialist). I was playing Mayans, Standard map size, 7 players, Monarch difficulty level. After building a new city (about a year 1000 BC) I was able to build 20 buildings (big ones, like courthouse or port) in 50 turns. I think it works this way when you play as a civilization starting with Ritualism tech and with small number of civs (you can get to Hellenism, Naghualism and Confucianism before others). I used a strategy of not founding new cities before I had 8 religions in the capital, it worked surprisingly well, I was able to build every wonder in about 15 turns (still Eternity game speed). The Oracle and Cheomseongdae can be helpful if you smash the other civs before they start.

Therefore: I think Barter should have more drawbacks (if I remember correctly, it adds +100% to distance maintenance). This is quite realistic (the main drawback of Barter Economy in real life are ridiculously high transaction costs - because of lack of currency, you cannot calculate or compare prices - imagine you have a book and you want an apple, you have to find a person who needs a book and has an apple; in reality there were certain days in certain places where people could trade certain goods, for example trading meat and livestock every month or some items were considered to be money - special shells in Far East, jewellery nearly everywhere, different metals, copper, silver, gold etc., but still people were using useful materials as a mean of exchange).

Conclusion: Perhaps Barter should have higher costs, not only distance maintenance, but albo number of cities. I don't know what do you think or if it can be done to look realistic (small economies could collapse because of +900% maintenance), but with science slider at 100% for the entire length of the game (Space Race victory) and income +150 per turn in 1000 BC and +2000 per turn in 1800 AD the game becomes too easy for the player. Leave the State Church and Patrician, they are balanced, but Barter is just too powerful. It would be less overpowered, if you could add significant number of cities maintenance - as the empire begins to spread, it is increasingly difficult to manage economy and production because of high transactions costs - does it make sense?

P.S.: I like the mod, Afforess and my post is not meant to criticize you :)

keldath
Jun 25, 2011, 07:47 AM
hi,

ok i defendantly see a bug with the fixed borders/culture.

i have 90% culture on 2-3 tiles - and the tiles want mine, only when i took despotism, which has fixed borders - i got those tiles - exactly after i switched to the civic - the tiles where mine.
isnt suppose to work the opposite way? with fixed borders you cant take a territory without doing clain territory?

i have sceen shots if its not clear. also - im using the latest revision as of today.

JosEPh_II
Jun 25, 2011, 10:22 AM
Jungle camps are kind of an early game improvement to make a jungle city viable that eventually get replaced. A big problem is how jungles contribute to unhealthiness and stops cities from growing too large -- damn mosquitoes.

Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle. (Vincentz lived in Thailand when he made the Modmod and the JC was based off of his real life experience with living in the jungle).

But over time and changes to Civics and Roads parts of it have been lost or downgraded. Vincentz JC was a Major improvement for jungle tiles from the vanilla BtS version. The vanilla version was Only good for chopping down and then using the tile as a normal grassland and/or hill tile. The JC minimod also had a small % chance of discovering various resources normally found in jungle. That too is now almost non existent. Having a JC on a river used to give a bonus not only to food but hammer and gold too. And a hill JC also provided a hammer. As roads developed the JC would get a hammer and/or gold boost like Lumbermills and Mines and Farms, but not now. JC with the original set of parameters was as viable a choice for a Jungle tile as is the Farm or workshop, and a mine on a jungle hill.

Right now, as you pointed out, the JC is only good for early jungle cities. All the rest of it's usefulness has been lost. To the point that the AI does Not use it.

JosEPh

flitz
Jun 25, 2011, 10:29 AM
After updating to 1.76 beta 5, I still have the problem with the Rev advisor screen. That is, by default it doesn't show any revolution related information. And when I set it to display those it doesn't save them (albeit trying out the different buttons there are on the advisor editor screen).

Danei
Jun 25, 2011, 11:15 AM
hi,

ok i defendantly see a bug with the fixed borders/culture.

i have 90% culture on 2-3 tiles - and the tiles want mine, only when i took despotism, which has fixed borders - i got those tiles - exactly after i switched to the civic - the tiles where mine.
isnt suppose to work the opposite way? with fixed borders you cant take a territory without doing clain territory?

i have sceen shots if its not clear. also - im using the latest revision as of today.

You can still claim territory with culture under fixed borders, as long as the territory isn't owned by someone else who also has fixed borders.

keldath
Jun 25, 2011, 12:05 PM
Danei,

humm ok, but i remember that in vanilla civ, if the tile says its 90% yours and 10% of another civ - the tile should convert to your civ - isnt right?



********
koshling, afforess,

i have something really weird,
i have a ctd upon founding a corporation - i got into the world builder - and removed the corp from the city (with its building) and the crash was gone - it was founded by an ai, took me a while to figure that, but thats what happens.

afforess, i know you dont give support to other mods, but still, im using your code 70% of my mod, all i changed are the xml - you know, techs, units and ect.

i also added the special building tag to every corporation i use (12 in my mod), and i added it to the special building xml file, i have all the art so thats not the cause - maybe you can tell me something that i missed - in the python is there any connections to the corporations?
from what i can figure the special building tag of the corps apears only on 4 files: building xml - info and class, civic (one civic) and in the special building file.
the corporation that causes this is exactly like in a new dawn - mining corp (only 1 bonus i don't have which is lead).

so im pretly much at your mercy, cause other then removing the corp from the city - i dont know what else can i do to avoid the crash. maybe some log can help?
plz help me in this one.

***
can this crash be caused by having six prereqbonus tags on the corporation file instead of 5? (the six is empty - NONE).

vincentz
Jun 25, 2011, 01:54 PM
2. In my last game, I noticed the Artist's Guild seemed too powerful with a 50% bonus to culture. Usually I'm pretty happy if I can get 3-5 culture out of a building, and it was giving 15-25 culture to my large late game cities.

Lined up next to the extra hammers from the blacksmitchs guilds, or gold from the merch guilds, it's fairly balanced.

IIRC then Zappara had made a building called Artists Guild that gave 50% culture, and when my 15 Guilds modmod was added, the building wasnt removed.
The Artists Guild and the Artists Guild have nothing to do with eachother :crazyeye:

Maybe rename the Artists Guild (building) to Actors Guild to solve any confusion that might arise.

os79
Jun 25, 2011, 02:41 PM
Oh, that ;). Yeah, make sense.

Cykur
Jun 25, 2011, 04:04 PM
Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle.

JosEPh

Yup, absolutely right, there are different kinds of jungle. It was usually the marshy jungles, marshy forests, marshy marshes that caused problems for local populations, especially non-natives who were not habituated.

I was just commenting on how the Jungle Camp currently worked, didn't fully understand that you were upset with the whole balance of how this game views jungle from a Western / Euro-Centric view of something that has to be removed because it impedes progress.

If someone wants to implement a more realistic balance of forest -- Coniferous, Deciduous, Jungle, Wetland, Marsh/Swamp, I'd play it.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 25, 2011, 04:33 PM
koshling, afforess,

i have something really weird,
i have a ctd upon founding a corporation - i got into the world builder - and removed the corp from the city (with its building) and the crash was gone - it was founded by an ai, took me a while to figure that, but thats what happens.

afforess, i know you dont give support to other mods, but still, im using your code 70% of my mod, all i changed are the xml - you know, techs, units and ect.

i also added the special building tag to every corporation i use (12 in my mod), and i added it to the special building xml file, i have all the art so thats not the cause - maybe you can tell me something that i missed - in the python is there any connections to the corporations?
from what i can figure the special building tag of the corps apears only on 4 files: building xml - info and class, civic (one civic) and in the special building file.
the corporation that causes this is exactly like in a new dawn - mining corp (only 1 bonus i don't have which is lead).

so im pretly much at your mercy, cause other then removing the corp from the city - i dont know what else can i do to avoid the crash. maybe some log can help?
plz help me in this one.

Do you have any buildings that provide a resource used by the corporations? Having a building provide iron can cause a CTD or infinite loop when you build a corporation in the same city that uses iron.

Conversly if you have the corporation and then build a building that provides iron the building wont provide iron. This is why the alumnium building doesnt provide aluminium.

If this is your case then I have a python mod that will fix it. :) All that unless Afforess or Koshling fix it in the dll. As far as I know it is only strategic resources that cause the problem. Vincentz discovered the problem when he introduced Guilds.

can this crash be caused by having six prereqbonus tags on the corporation file instead of 5? (the six is empty - NONE).

I don't remember a sixth entry causing a crash. If I remember correctly it just ignores anything after the fifth.

Edit:
Sorry Cykur but you are wrong. The JC in AND is based of off Vincentz Jungle Camp minimod/modmod (one of the Best minimods to hit BtS). Unhealthiness was a BtS/CIV IV hangover that many modders/players still hang on too. When as Vincentz pointed out is not true for every Jungle. (Vincentz lived in Thailand when he made the Modmod and the JC was based off of his real life experience with living in the jungle).

But over time and changes to Civics and Roads parts of it have been lost or downgraded. Vincentz JC was a Major improvement for jungle tiles from the vanilla BtS version. The vanilla version was Only good for chopping down and then using the tile as a normal grassland and/or hill tile. The JC minimod also had a small % chance of discovering various resources normally found in jungle. That too is now almost non existent. Having a JC on a river used to give a bonus not only to food but hammer and gold too. And a hill JC also provided a hammer. As roads developed the JC would get a hammer and/or gold boost like Lumbermills and Mines and Farms, but not now. JC with the original set of parameters was as viable a choice for a Jungle tile as is the Farm or workshop, and a mine on a jungle hill.

Right now, as you pointed out, the JC is only good for early jungle cities. All the rest of it's usefulness has been lost. To the point that the AI does Not use it.

JosEPh

Just for you Jungle camps from way back. you will need to put the files in a mod and link the mod in but just the two files are needed. Should work fine both in AND 1.76 and C2C v13. May work in C2C v10 upwards.

keldath
Jun 25, 2011, 05:37 PM
Dancing Hoskuld,
first thank you for dressing my problem!
much appreciated.

this is one hell of a loop, i dunno how you guys figured it out.

anyway - i have iron mine building - world wonder - maximum of 5 world wide.
the city with the newly founded mining inc, did not have an iron mine within the same city,
other civs did, but they dont have any access to the mining inc just yet.

hoping your explanation could help - i removed any bonus supplying building build in my game - went over every city...
and still got that ctd, only upon removeing the newly founded corp, helps.
i tried to remove it and then made my city have it - still got a ctd, without it - the ctd point passed.

i have compared the corp to rom and, and one corp on and does have a sixth tag..so that is indeed isnt the case.

i would love to get the python fix you refer - maybe i can implement it and perhaps it will help...

thank ou again for the help,
i realy hope someone will help me with this, cause most logical crashes i get and stuff, but this one....beats me.
thanks.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 25, 2011, 05:47 PM
Dancing Hoskuld,
first thank you for dressing my problem!
much appreciated.

this is one hell of a loop, i dunno how you guys figured it out.

anyway - i have iron mine building - world wonder - maximum of 5 world wide.
the city with the newly founded mining inc, did not have an iron mine within the same city,
other civs did, but they dont have any access to the mining inc just yet.

hoping your explanation could help - i removed any bonus supplying building build in my game - went over every city...
and still got that ctd, only upon removeing the newly founded corp, helps.
i tried to remove it and then made my city have it - still got a ctd, without it - the ctd point passed.

i have compared the corp to rom and, and one corp on and does have a sixth tag..so that is indeed isnt the case.

i would love to get the python fix you refer - maybe i can implement it and perhaps it will help...

thank ou again for the help,
i realy hope someone will help me with this, cause most logical crashes i get and stuff, but this one....beats me.
thanks.

It is a very small and simple bit of code. Attached is a BUG version. In the init function I set up an array of the buildings and the bonuses that they provide. In the onBuildingBuilt function I assign the bonus to the city.

keldath
Jun 25, 2011, 06:05 PM
that was fast! thanks.

ok ive set the prividing bonuses, wrote a line in init.xml, put the py in the python folder,
loaded the save game,
still crashed im afraid :(.
do i need to remove the free bonus tag from the xml?

do you have any other idea?
when i come to think about it i had those providers a long time, and i never before had a crash because of a corporation.

could this be some rare bug in the sdkk that i caught?
i cant think of another reason - ive tried a lot of trial and error:
i removed all the cities except the one with the new corp.
i removed all the building in that city except the hq.
i removed all the bonus providers before the fix you gave me.

only upon removing the hq, i can continue - ran some auto play a few times to be sure.

kel.

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 25, 2011, 08:26 PM
do i need to remove the free bonus tag from the xml?


Oops, forgot to mention that you need to remove the free bonus from the xml.

JosEPh_II
Jun 25, 2011, 08:39 PM
@DH
Thanks for the JC files! :D

Now if I could only get Afforess and Strategy to use them both mods would be greatly improved imho. ;)

Now I just need someone to explain to me why All the AI use Monarchy and fixed borders? And as soon as I changed from Monarchy to Republic my borders instantly shrank even though I had better culture. As an example, on some tiles it would list my empire (before the civic change) as 66% and the bordering AI as 33%. But when I changed the %'s flip flopped. I went to 33% and the AI went to 66% on My tile! :P So far only 1 other AI has now switched to Republic (and I think they did that because of all our trade agreements).

Again DH thanks for listening to me gripe about JCs.
JosEPh :)

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 25, 2011, 08:52 PM
@DH
Thanks for the JC files! :D

Now if I could only get Afforess and Strategy to use them both mods would be greatly improved imho. ;)

Again DH thanks for listening to me gripe about JCs.
JosEPh :)

you are welcome. I had forgotten the tech and route changes in the one I put n C2C v12. I am sure it will be back in C2C v14;)

1stcontact2035
Jun 25, 2011, 09:49 PM
After I discovered that I didn't actually start error logging (somehow I failed to save the init file the first time), this time I now have a fairly good go at the game with logging, though no crash yet. Still, the main odd thing I noticed, and its a pretty huge thing, is that Civ 4 is trying to connect to a network while playing this mod. I also noticed that my antivirus blocks a network connection shortly (within ten minutes) of each and every crash. I also noticed that on the python loading log I somehow got the Buffy mod plugged into this, whether with your mod or accidentally another way (I downloaded it about the same time as this mod and honestly, I play 100% single player and will never do multiplayer, ever). So the whole network connection thing boggles my mind, except that it makes sense that if my AV sees this as a threat, considering how I have it set up, it will kick me off of Civ 4 (honestly I'm not the least bit frustrated with it, that is how I have my computer security setup and I'd prefer to be kicked off of a computer game than to be open to attack). Anyway... at this point, does anyone know how to remove this Buffy mod? Without going into a search for it, I'm guessing its going to be some sort of pervasive/invasive thing that'll be a pain to remove. Maybe not, and if not I'll have it removed first thing tomorrow morning. But anyway, if it will, let me know, please.

1stcontact2035
Jun 25, 2011, 09:53 PM
I should point this out with the Buffy mod... I only recall downloading it. I don't know if or why on Earth I would have installed it, other than the fact that I didn't immediately know what it was for, I sort of had a pretty bad misconception of it.

keldath
Jun 26, 2011, 12:00 AM
Now I just need someone to explain to me why All the AI use Monarchy and fixed borders? And as soon as I changed from Monarchy to Republic my borders instantly shrank even though I had better culture. As an example, on some tiles it would list my empire (before the civic change) as 66% and the bordering AI as 33%. But when I changed the %'s flip flopped. I went to 33% and the AI went to 66% on My tile! :P So far only 1 other AI has now switched to Republic (and I think they did that because of all our trade agreements).

reported that too...


Oops, forgot to mention that you need to remove the free bonus from the xml.

well, i didnt help, still ctd, but i wonder if the changes will apply to my save game...



****************
thats it,
i give up.
i tired anything humanly possible with the world builder, i removed tons of variations of things,
i only pass the ctd when removing 2 corporations.
i made sure there no building producing bonus.

cant this be an sdk issue? - of a new dawn origin?

modifieda4
Jun 26, 2011, 12:08 PM
playing 1.75c, two bugs i noticed
*the AI doesnt use its treasure?
*the AI doesnt do inquisition. I searched the python files for familliar AI inquision code and couldn't it. either it doesnt exist or i dont know where to look. I may try to paste my known good AI code in and see if that solves it.

*edit: after double checking the install, i think the C patch didnt install correctly. testing inquisitions now.

keldath
Jun 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
thanks to koshling a ctd regarding corporations bug was fixed!

thank you koshling,

and im happy i helped a new dawn to find a bug.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 27, 2011, 02:34 AM
I got a game when I have a few watermills. And they doesnt show properly on the map? Anyone else seen this before?

Also, would it be possible to add an option to not have the current future era? Kind of liked the way original civ4 ended with modern tanks ect. Not plasma tank stuff/walkers. Could this be an option or is everyone totally against this idea?

baha
Jun 27, 2011, 02:42 AM
I got a game when I have a few watermills. And they doesnt show properly on the map? Anyone else seen this before?

Also, would it be possible to add an option to not have the current future era? Kind of liked the way original civ4 ended with modern tanks ect. Not plasma tank stuff/walkers. Could this be an option or is everyone totally against this idea?

I am having the same problem with the watermills. The plot looks empty.

Regarding the Future Era, there should eb an option to disable it!

NightKev
Jun 27, 2011, 02:57 AM
There IS an option to disable the Future Era. It's one of the game options when you're picking the map/etc.

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 27, 2011, 03:19 AM
There IS an option to disable the Future Era. It's one of the game options when you're picking the map/etc.

Are you kidding? Woot. LOL! Nevermind then! :blush:

keldath
Jun 27, 2011, 03:23 AM
Gomer_Pyle,

start a game via custom game - no future era is down scroll in the option section.

1stcontact2035
Jun 27, 2011, 08:23 AM
Okay, I haven't gone and playtested the sucker yet, but I'm like 99.999% certain I solved not just crashes on your mod but every crash I'll ever experience on Civ 4 ever again. See the Tech Support thread I posted below.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=428691

I can try looking up the specific links to the various research I did for this, but basically the gist of it is this. I happen to have a RealTek Hi-Def Integrated SoundChip and Windows automatically installs its own version of the driver without using the RealTek version, which RealTek has an updated version current as of a couple of months ago that should solve a whole host of problems caused by using the Windows drivers, especially memory allocation failures bugs caused by bad audio file usage. Which seems to be the main issue with Civ 4.

So, when I did finally start logging (I actually didn't realize that I failed to save the .ini file when I enabled logging the first go around) and noticed that after my first crash there was an audio log, which was where all the maf were. So, going on that note, I wondered if my sound card wasn't up to par, but what I found was that this was more of a bug and how to fix it. Anyway, backstory aside, I don't know if this will work for everyone, but perhaps it will solve some people's problems.

Since I love playing RoM AND, and hated it when the mod was at the point of crashing every few turns, I'm happy I found a fix for this. And I hope this fix works for others as well. I know I have a really common computer and a computer with a lot of common components, so its not a stretch for people to be having the same or similar issues on a large scale - and then on the flip side many, many people to not.

1stcontact2035
Jun 27, 2011, 10:06 AM
Okay, I haven't gone and playtested the sucker yet, but I'm like 99.999% certain I solved not just crashes on your mod but every crash I'll ever experience on Civ 4 ever again. See the Tech Support thread I posted below.

I playtested it and it actually runs smoother on a late industrial era Giant Earth Map, every continent has tons of cities except Africa, etc., than I've seen plenty of non-modded standard maps play before. Just saying.

os79
Jun 27, 2011, 10:12 AM
Are you saying that most of MAFs are bad use of Audio memory? If so, that just may explain my luck. I'm Deaf so I turn off all audio functions in my games, and I rarely ever see MAFs in my games. I play with Huge maps, and I can go deep into Modern Eras, even Transhuman once.

So are you saying that audio memory is a major player in MAF, right?

Stormwind
Jun 27, 2011, 10:54 AM
Regarding Sound. Lately I've wondering is it possible to turn off the effect that when multiple actions of the same kind take place the volume gets "louder" ? Like when promoting a larger stack with the same kind of promotion.

1stcontact2035
Jun 27, 2011, 11:06 AM
Are you saying that most of MAFs are bad use of Audio memory? If so, that just may explain my luck. I'm Deaf so I turn off all audio functions in my games, and I rarely ever see MAFs in my games. I play with Huge maps, and I can go deep into Modern Eras, even Transhuman once.

So are you saying that audio memory is a major player in MAF, right?

Yep. Probably not 100% of the cases but probably close enough that this would fix it most of the time. I also recall doing a hotfix a few years ago where I just disabled the audio effects myself and wound up not having anymore crashes, and this was on a machine running something like 1/4 - 1/3 the recommended memory and I was still able to play on large maps to completion, albeit unmodded.

Regarding Sound. Lately I've wondering is it possible to turn off the effect that when multiple actions of the same kind take place the volume gets "louder" ? Like when promoting a larger stack with the same kind of promotion.

From what I can tell that goes away when you do this fix. I noticed the quality of the sound was phenomenal once I installed the actual company drivers versus the Windows ones. To say it was the difference between hi-def and normal isn't doing it credit. It was just beyond amazing the difference.

BrianL03
Jun 27, 2011, 01:02 PM
When installing (as an administrator) the Beta error over 1.75C, I'm getting the following error:

http://i.imgur.com/wc0l1.png

I have the Steam copy of the game, so this is installing to the steamapps/.../mods folder. Installation has worked in the past (also with Beta4).

I was getting a similar error but AND still launched to the correct installation. However now after running the Beta5 installer and trying to launch AND, I am stuck running 1.75C.

Additionally I get these errors with the 1.75C:

Failed Loading XML file modules\Custom Leaderheads\Cleopatra\Cleopatra_CIV4LeaderHeadInfo s.xml.
LoadXML call failed for modules\Custom Leaderheads\Cleopatra\Cleopatra_CIV4LeaderHeadInfo s.xml.
Failed Loading XML file modules\Custom Leaderheads\Cleopatra\Cleopatra_CIV4CivilizationIn fos.xml.
LoadXML call failed for modules\Custom Leaderheads\Cleopatra\Cleopatra_CIV4CivilizationIn fos.xml.
A similar error appears when loading new games.

Afforess
Jun 27, 2011, 09:11 PM
When installing (as an administrator) the Beta error over 1.75C, I'm getting the following error:

http://i.imgur.com/wc0l1.png

I have the Steam copy of the game, so this is installing to the steamapps/.../mods folder. Installation has worked in the past (also with Beta4).

I was getting a similar error but AND still launched to the correct installation. However now after running the Beta5 installer and trying to launch AND, I am stuck running 1.75C.

Additionally I get these errors with the 1.75C:

A similar error appears when loading new games.

Have you tried redownloading, to make sure it wasn't corrupt?

Afforess
Jun 27, 2011, 09:14 PM
Are you saying that most of MAFs are bad use of Audio memory? If so, that just may explain my luck. I'm Deaf so I turn off all audio functions in my games, and I rarely ever see MAFs in my games. I play with Huge maps, and I can go deep into Modern Eras, even Transhuman once.

So are you saying that audio memory is a major player in MAF, right?

From audio modding I've done in other games, audio is loaded into memory, regardless of whether it is ever played, so if you're not having MAF's, your okay.

BrianL03
Jun 28, 2011, 12:17 AM
Have you tried redownloading, to make sure it wasn't corrupt?

Just tried it now and got the same error, unfortunately. I'm running Windows 7 if that helps any?

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 28, 2011, 07:13 AM
I am still playing beta 4 (got a mp game going on). But I have noticed something today as I got destroyed while not paying attention. Trying to learn to play the game correctly. hehe

Well. I got killed early before i even produced a defender in my city. :'(

Then I got the option to select a new nation or none at all. I selected none and ok button. But nothing happens. I keep clicking and selecting a nation to try that. Nothing happens. Maybe 30 sec. after that I got spawned as Greece on the north pole (only ice) with 8 settlers and nothing else???? I have experienced this before in beta 3 i think it was.

keldath
Jun 28, 2011, 12:03 PM
Gomer_Pyle,
you didnt have any oos on mp game?

that option after you get killed, isnt working for mp, i know that from previous reports once a playrer is dead the game may have out of sync errors.

1stcontact2035
Jun 28, 2011, 01:23 PM
From audio modding I've done in other games, audio is loaded into memory, regardless of whether it is ever played, so if you're not having MAF's, your okay.

Yeah, embarrassed as I am about this, a day later another crash. Right now I stupidly realized I never tried any of the fixes you mentioned like static leaderheads or getting rid of unique unit art... however, that said, unloaded modules folder is NOWHERE. As in, its not there.

Is there a separate unloaded modules download, or did I get one of those "we'll give you a 400 mb version of the 425 mb file" downloads?

Guess I need to take down my miracle cure on the tech support page. Never ask a scientist to do a programmers work :sad: I'm ok at programming, much better at solving problems than chugging through lines of code, and easily obsessed by solving any given problem or issue that besets me, even to the point of creating a problem out of thin air when there's a real simple fix. However, I will say that computers make me :mad: sometimes.

os79
Jun 28, 2011, 01:45 PM
Curious. If you, Afforess, were given whole code for Civ4 and BtS, including code for exe itself...
Will you be able to eliminate MAFs to high degree given enough alone time and dedication?
Or is MAF inevitable in Civ4 engine, period?

1stcontact2035
Jun 28, 2011, 02:14 PM
Curious. If you, Afforess, were given whole code for Civ4 and BtS, including code for exe itself...
Will you be able to eliminate MAFs to high degree given enough alone time and dedication?
Or is MAF inevitable in Civ4 engine, period?

I had a similar thought myself... why doesn't someone just crack the exe and make this game have 64 bit support... that would take care of all of the MAF issues in one foul swoop. But of course that would be really risky. You'd be facing the wrath of Firaxis and their legal teams for even touching the exe file, and then posting it all over the web. Still, that doesn't mean someone like me can't fool around with this for personal non-distributed use, does it?

Gomer_Pyle
Jun 28, 2011, 03:21 PM
Gomer_Pyle,
you didnt have any oos on mp game?

that option after you get killed, isnt working for mp, i know that from previous reports once a playrer is dead the game may have out of sync errors.

But the thing is. I was playing SP game on my own when it happened. It also happened in a previous mp game i had.

kiwitt
Jun 28, 2011, 05:14 PM
I tried to play a Gigantic Hub map with 37 civs and advanced start and all I got was one flat land.

See attached saves.


EDIT also happened with Islands ... do gigantic scripts work ?

Stormwind
Jun 28, 2011, 10:46 PM
Most maps with ROM_ in front should work, but nevertheless with that many AIs and gigantic map expect to run into memory problems by late Renaissance or Industrial.

NightKev
Jun 29, 2011, 06:01 AM
ROM_Balanced doesn't seem to like anything larger than "Huge" (ie: Giant and Gigantic), I played a game with it + Gigantic and it was just a single continent with 90% of the world as ocean...

1stcontact2035
Jun 29, 2011, 12:09 PM
Why on earth someone doesn't post the unloaded modules folder in a separate download is beyond me. Or why it was never included in the AND mod.

kiwitt
Jun 29, 2011, 02:20 PM
So I am missing modules ?!?!?!

I just downloaded what it was to go in BTS\Mods ...

Dark Force
Jun 29, 2011, 02:34 PM
I believe 1stcontact2035 is refering to the different modules of RoM not that AND has any modules (other than the BlueMarble and formations that you are prompted about in the installer)

1stcontact2035
Jun 29, 2011, 05:29 PM
I believe 1stcontact2035 is refering to the different modules of RoM not that AND has any modules (other than the BlueMarble and formations that you are prompted about in the installer)

Yep. The modules that we are supposed to use when we get memory allocation failures. Like static leaderheads, no building art, etc. Of those I lucked into someone posting a link to the no building art module but the static leaderhead module is nowhere to be found, unless it just happens to be the same one from this mod way back in 2007. I dunno. Maybe. I'm just saying that if this is the go-to hotfix than post the file for it, instead of copping out and saying "download this 450 mb file and get it from there". That's really rude. The no building art module was something like 19 KILOBYTES!!! I mean, a split second uploading this thing and you're done.

Dark Force
Jun 29, 2011, 06:53 PM
Here (http://www.filedropper.com/unloadedmodules) they are, your welcome!

But for next time remember that sugar water will get you a lot further than vinegar ;)

youmakemefart
Jun 30, 2011, 05:18 AM
So I finally a little time to play properly...

Feedback:
Basically this is the best civ ever. So much that works well. Game speed is better. Still a few points:

- As already stated in another thread: the cavalry changes rule, most of all the terrain differences - with maybe the exception of the "commando" promotion which is not necessarily realistic or a must from a gameplay perspective
I think instead of commando an additional movement point for cavalry would be better

This is a big issue: ARMOURED UNITS

They MUST start with commando (especially if cavalry have it). I could write 5 pages about the historical evidence for this. The essential point is that there should be a qualitative difference between the limitations and possibilities of Infantry and Armour. At the moment, as soon as there is armour, there is virtually no point in infantry – which is so, so unrealistic. Infantry should remain strongest in suitable terrain.
Armour, like cavalry, loves open, accessible terrain. Roads are also a huge plus. Tanks should be weaker attacking cities and stronger in certain terrains, such as plains, deserts, grasslands etc. But armour should get -50% on peaks and in forests and jungles and they should only be able to enter these terrains on roads.
Anyone with a military background gets nausea seeing a main battle tank progressing through forest, and also getting a defensive bonus for it. Also: off-road jungle, forest and mountain warfare is completely impossible for Mech Inf., Mobile Artillery, (Heavy) Tanks, and Battle Tanks etc. and should remain the sole domain of Marines, regular infantry and Special Forces.

To summarise: All Amour MUST get:
Commando Promotion
+25% Grassland Plain Desert attack
-25% City Attack
Can only enter Forests, Jungles and mountains on roads
-50% Forests, Jungles and mountains (because they are completely restricted to roads and sitting ducks)
These suggestions would really, really improve and diversify modern age warfare, and make it realistic.

- Chariots still basically didn’t exist in the game I played. Maybe Marathon game speed was still too fast

- Although I select the “No Storms” option, I lose a ship every 10 turns…

Apart from this....

EPIC

keldath
Jun 30, 2011, 06:26 AM
hi,

got some feedback:

the ai pays wayyyy to much for techs, esources and what not.
for a tech her gives tons of money , resources and stuff.

maybe there can be a limitation on how much gold per turn the ai willing to pay - maybe something like 5% of what is makes each turn, and a tech for a tech max depending on its values costs.

you can blackmail the ai to your victory this way...

second,
i dont understand why the corporations are being founded by them selves - i tried to check and un check the option in the a new dawn bug tab - and it didnt matter.

NightKev
Jun 30, 2011, 07:45 AM
I recall the corporations self-founding option being in the regular pre-game creation options, not the bug menu.

Folket
Jun 30, 2011, 08:11 AM
Hello!

When I capture Madrid with a longbowmen it crashes using 1.75C. I have not found a way to capture Madrid without it crashing.

flitz
Jun 30, 2011, 09:07 AM
This is a big issue: ARMOURED UNITS
Anyone with a military background gets nausea seeing a main battle tank progressing through forest, and also getting a defensive bonus for it. Also: off-road jungle, forest and mountain warfare is completely impossible for Mech Inf., Mobile Artillery, (Heavy) Tanks, and Battle Tanks etc. and should remain the sole domain of Marines, regular infantry and Special Forces.

To summarise: All Amour MUST get:
Commando Promotion
+25% Grassland Plain Desert attack
-25% City Attack
Can only enter Forests, Jungles and mountains on roads
-50% Forests, Jungles and mountains (because they are completely restricted to

I think Civ plays on another level of abstraction. If a tile reads 'forest' that doesn't necessarily mean that it must be all covered in it.

This means that a movement restriction for roaded forests only would be a little too harsh, imo. Also, I think that you can even make a point for the defensive bonus of vehicles on a forest tile. Imagine them not sitting between trees but rather behind a forested area and having the element of surprise on their side when suddenly circling around the actual forest.

But I agree with you that Infantry should be benefiting more from forests as they can make more direct use of it. So maybe just lessen the defensive bonus of forests for vehicle based units to like 10% or something.

Dark Force
Jun 30, 2011, 10:02 AM
I think Civ plays on another level of abstraction. If a tile reads 'forest' that doesn't necessarily mean that it must be all covered in it.

This means that a movement restriction for roaded forests only would be a little too harsh, imo. Also, I think that you can even make a point for the defensive bonus of vehicles on a forest tile. Imagine them not sitting between trees but rather behind a forested area and having the element of surprise on their side when suddenly circling around the actual forest.

But I agree with you that Infantry should be benefiting more from forests as they can make more direct use of it. So maybe just lessen the defensive bonus of forests for vehicle based units to like 10% or something.

This is what I suggested to him in the other thread he posted but I'll put it here for your feedback:

Commando Promotion - remove from cav, or add to armor
Give anti-armor infantry +10-20% more against armor, -15-35% against Infantry
Armor city attack stays same
Armor attack penalty for forests, jungle, and hills -10-15%
Armor attack penalty for mountians -20-33%
Armor still can move through forest/jungle/hills
Armor can't cross mountian without some sort of road
Infantry recieve slight bonus (+10%) against armor in jungle/forest.
Marines/special forces recieve +1 movement in jungle/forest

Lordhasen
Jun 30, 2011, 11:10 AM
Hi I think I found a bug I can not loud maps( in costum Game) in the size Giant and Giantgantic.
I use the version 1.75 with patch c .
If i try i get a Runtime error happen after a copel of minutes.
Is there any Solution to this problem or i must just live with that :sad:

flitz
Jun 30, 2011, 11:48 AM
This is what I suggested to him in the other thread he posted but I'll put it here for your feedback:

Commando Promotion - remove from cav, or add to armor
Give anti-armor infantry +10-20% more against armor, -15-35% against Infantry
Armor city attack stays same
Armor attack penalty for forests, jungle, and hills -10-15%
Armor attack penalty for mountians -20-33%
Armor still can move through forest/jungle/hills
Armor can't cross mountian without some sort of road
Infantry recieve slight bonus (+10%) against armor in jungle/forest.
Marines/special forces recieve +1 movement in jungle/forest


I see, didn't read that, sorry

Dancing Hoskuld
Jun 30, 2011, 03:56 PM
Arctic terrain damage appears to do damage if you are in tundra or snow terrains but the promotion infos file only lets you protect against one. Is this a design feature?

Afforess
Jun 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
Hi I think I found a bug I can not loud maps( in costum Game) in the size Giant and Giantgantic.
I use the version 1.75 with patch c .
If i try i get a Runtime error happen after a copel of minutes.
Is there any Solution to this problem or i must just live with that :sad:

You need to have a machine with 4GB of RAM for those maps to load.

Cykur
Jun 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
Arctic terrain damage appears to do damage if you are in tundra or snow terrains but the promotion infos file only lets you protect against one. Is this a design feature?

I think it is a design feature. Ice still causes damage -- try to imagine logistically supporting an army in Antarctica and it kind of makes sense.

Afforess
Jun 30, 2011, 06:28 PM
Dark Force and Others

Thank you for your balancing feedback. I'm making some changes, and will try to get a new beta out in the next few days.

youmakemefart
Jul 01, 2011, 01:32 AM
Dark Force and Others

Thank you for your balancing feedback. I'm making some changes, and will try to get a new beta out in the next few days.


great - thank you for considering our suggestions and thank you for your hard work...

Dancing Hoskuld
Jul 01, 2011, 05:25 AM
I think it is a design feature. Ice still causes damage -- try to imagine logistically supporting an army in Antarctica and it kind of makes sense.

I thought civs starting with in the arctic would get a promotion that would protect them from arctic terrain damage. It seems I was wrong. :( They only get protection from some of the arctic terrain.

Cykur
Jul 01, 2011, 07:11 AM
I thought civs starting with in the arctic would get a promotion that would protect them from arctic terrain damage. It seems I was wrong. :( They only get protection from some of the arctic terrain.


Ah, that would be kind of cool if starting near the icecap gave the arctic protection -- even though it is just tundra protection, not ice, it would still be a huge benefit. I have been given a north pole starting position a couple times, and it is fricken hard with terrain damage on. I actually took a civ to world domination a few weeks ago from a North Pole start... on EMPEROR!...one of the most involved games I've ever had.

Dark Force
Jul 01, 2011, 04:59 PM
Dark Force and Others

Thank you for your balancing feedback. I'm making some changes, and will try to get a new beta out in the next few days.

Can't wait to try them out! And thank you for taking our suggestions under consideration. Glad we could help in some way :)

baha
Jul 02, 2011, 01:53 AM
I have noticed a problem with AI. Even if they do not have a factory in their city, they have acess to power!

Istanbul_Kop
Jul 02, 2011, 05:47 AM
I have just had the best game of my life with Beta build 5.

I nearly reached the 22nd Century and completed the tech tree. I started with 12 civs, though many more did appear throughout. Game time was just over 38 hours.

I played on a standard map because even though my PC is only recently built, and a top performer, I find that Large maps are too slow if there are still a lot of major civs later in the game.

However, there are noticable speed improvements since I last played a complete RoM:AND game. Only a few times was I left hanging about (during the middle of the game when various superpowers were still present).

I had 4-5 crashes during my game, but these all did not replicate on reload.

I can't say I found too many bugs at all, these are some MINOR ones I found:

1. The texture/graphic for a storm is messed up, it hides the tiles behind.
2. Fusion Destroyer has no sound.
3. Plague Bringer tip is messed up.

As I say, very minor.

Thankyou for such a great game, I'd love to tell you all about my great game, but lets face it...you don't care. haha.:lol:

Vokarya
Jul 02, 2011, 07:14 AM
Hello,

I found a "stopped working" bug in 1.76 beta 5 before starting a game. I load the mod, go into the Sevopedia, look up Advanced Computers, and the game crashes on mousing over the Assault Droid unit. It works fine in a game, but crashes outside of it.

EDIT: The game also crashes when mousing over the Assault Mech unit in Advanced Warmachines. I think it happens with every Robot or Assault Mech unit.

flitz
Jul 02, 2011, 08:17 AM
Two little things that I noticed while playing:

1. I wrote in an earlier post that the rev-advisor isn't saving changes you edit into it during the game. I found out that the patch 1.75->1.76beta_x is missing the file (and containing folder) .../CustomRevAdv/CustomRevAdv.txt
I copied it over from another mod and now it works. But I think it should be included in later patches.

2. I don't know if I missed something but in a lot of instances, military units weren't showing their :strength: value. E.g. during build selection in a city. I can't make a screenshot right now, but will do that later to show what I mean.

Dark Force
Jul 02, 2011, 09:15 AM
I have noticed a problem with AI. Even if they do not have a factory in their city, they have acess to power!

Do they have the 3 gorge dam wonder? If so that could be why..

Gomer_Pyle
Jul 02, 2011, 10:03 AM
I am still in beta 4. So if this is already fixed just ignore it. How come there is so insanely much inflation? I have tried everything to have less inflation but it just keeps raising and raising and raising. Until i go for barter which removes it all. Which again seems strange. What is the point with the other economic civics then?

And lastly how do people get their inflation down? Any tips?

Cykur
Jul 02, 2011, 03:52 PM
Hello,

I found a "stopped working" bug in 1.76 beta 5 before starting a game. I load the mod, go into the Sevopedia, look up Advanced Computers, and the game crashes on mousing over the Assault Droid unit. It works fine in a game, but crashes outside of it.

EDIT: The game also crashes when mousing over the Assault Mech unit in Advanced Warmachines. I think it happens with every Robot or Assault Mech unit.

I've also noticed if I browse the civ-pedia from the game start screen it crashes the game pretty quickly. It isnt just for looking at droids, it happens to me when I try to look up other stuff too. It works fine in game for me too. I didn't complain about it because I thought it might be related to the additional leaderheads and civs I've added from the AND mega pak.

Navman
Jul 02, 2011, 04:00 PM
Yep. The modules that we are supposed to use when we get memory allocation failures. Like static leaderheads, no building art, etc. Of those I lucked into someone posting a link to the no building art module but the static leaderhead module is nowhere to be found, unless it just happens to be the same one from this mod way back in 2007. I dunno. Maybe. I'm just saying that if this is the go-to hotfix than post the file for it, instead of copping out and saying "download this 450 mb file and get it from there". That's really rude. The no building art module was something like 19 KILOBYTES!!! I mean, a split second uploading this thing and you're done.

Hi All:
Can the above referenced modules be used with C2C as well?
Dark Force: thx for putting them up for downloading,

Dancing Hoskuld
Jul 02, 2011, 04:06 PM
Hi All:
Can the above referenced modules be used with C2C as well?
Dark Force: thx for putting them up for downloading,

The no building art may be usable but I think StrategyOnly has put this in by default. The static leaderheads will probably require work because C2C has two more eras.

LeperColony
Jul 02, 2011, 05:17 PM
I appear to have a bug in my RoM ND game. I'm running the most recent version with patch. Some of my units will not promote, even though they are above the threshold. This does not occur every time, but when it does, they will continue to acquire xp, but there will be no blue cloud and no promotion options.

Auto promote has been turned off since the start of the game. As I said earlier, this does not happen to all units, but it has happened to several units thus far. I just tried opening up my RoM options with CTRL+ALT+O to turn on auto promote hoping that would fix it, and it crashed my game.

LeperColony
Jul 02, 2011, 05:21 PM
Here's the log file. I think it's the correct file, but if it isn't let me know and I'll look again.

LeperColony
Jul 02, 2011, 05:40 PM
Interestingly, when I loaded the game from the save, the very next turn it hard locked my whole system when the Ethiopians tried to talk to me.

Gomer_Pyle
Jul 03, 2011, 02:15 AM
Revolutions makes weird things happens. A lot of popups with people gaining their freedom. But when u click welcome or they are not welcome nothing happens. :S

Stormwind
Jul 03, 2011, 04:00 AM
Revolutions makes weird things happens. A lot of popups with people gaining their freedom. But when u click welcome or they are not welcome nothing happens. :S

I think this is fixed, it works for me with SVN build, so wait for next beta.