View Full Version : A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback


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NBAfan
Apr 06, 2010, 04:53 PM
I like occasional promotions mod!.:cool: Great idea!

ssgts
Apr 07, 2010, 04:03 AM
my game always freeze at certain turn, i tried a lot different ways which i found from this forum to sovle this issue, but they does not work, could you please take a look for me, thanks a lot, i really do not want to start a new game. i installed rom 2.9 with a new dawn 1.71 and ROME3.10.

{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Sea Monsters} {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Warriors of God} {Better RoM Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research

Custom

i edited the GEM preset 31 civ myself, it's in the attachment as well.

the specification of my laptop:

qx 9300 quad extream
8G RAM 1066 ddr3
ATI 3870*2 mobility
win 7 64bit ultimate

I think this issue is nothing to do with my hardware.

DRJ
Apr 07, 2010, 04:34 AM
Foreword: Thank you, Afforess for your kind admonition!

I have a strange problem with some plots in my territory which suddenly got fog of war on them (after declaration of war because I accepted a vassal I think). Even units can't be seen if moved there - but they still show up as moveable.

Encountered in 1.70


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248756&stc=1&d=1270634458

strategyonly
Apr 07, 2010, 06:29 AM
Foreword: Thank you, Afforess for your kind admonition!

I have a strange problem with some plots in my territory which suddenly got fog of war on them (after declaration of war because I accepted a vassal I think). Even units can't be seen if moved there - but they still show up as moveable.

Encountered in 1.70


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248756&stc=1&d=1270634458

See its not only me that have encountered this.;)

patrioticparado
Apr 07, 2010, 12:43 PM
I have a strange problem with some plots in my territory which suddenly got fog of war on them (after declaration of war because I accepted a vassal I think). Even units can't be seen if moved there - but they still show up as moveable.

Encountered in 1.70


I encountered this as well and I NEVER accept a vassal so that wasn't it. I was however at war with the civ whose culture previously covered that tile so that could have had something to do with it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just ran into the 'freeze' bug i've heard others mention (at least I assume its the same one). At first I thought the dentist's office I was building caused it, but later ruled that out.
As soon as I end the turn the game freezes. It does this before the mouse even changes to the spinning globe. I thought maybe it was just working really hard trying to calculate something so one time I left it for about 20~30 mins but after I came back I couldn't even break out of the program with the task manager and had to restart.

P.S. If you notice I have a distinct advantage over the other players that is because I used the world builder a couple times (ok like 30 times :p) to add a bunch of great people and change a few tiles to flood plains (don't judge me, I was taking a break from trying hard). But I dont think that had anything to do with this.

E_Pluribus_Unum
Apr 07, 2010, 02:01 PM
Hi!

Foreign Advisor/Glance page not working. No numbers, just smileys, and error message appears on the message bar : "WidgetTypes.WIDGET_LEADERHEAD_RELATIONS not found".

RoM 2.91, AND 1.71
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } Forestation Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} NIMBY {No Storms} ANM {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Better RoM Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception}

Custom

Afforess
Apr 07, 2010, 02:24 PM
Hi!

Foreign Advisor/Glance page not working. No numbers, just smileys, and error message appears on the message bar : "WidgetTypes.WIDGET_LEADERHEAD_RELATIONS not found".

RoM 2.91, AND 1.71
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } Forestation Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} NIMBY {No Storms} ANM {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Better RoM Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception}

Custom
RoM 2.91 and AND 1.71 are not compatible.

AndarielHalo
Apr 07, 2010, 06:06 PM
Could this crash problem of mine be the result of my putting custom leaderheads into the game?

NBAfan
Apr 07, 2010, 09:26 PM
The National unit limit is broken. I am playing with 2.9, 1.71 and VIP.

arcozelo
Apr 07, 2010, 09:26 PM
Foreword: Thank you, Afforess for your kind admonition!

I have a strange problem with some plots in my territory which suddenly got fog of war on them (after declaration of war because I accepted a vassal I think). Even units can't be seen if moved there - but they still show up as moveable.

Encountered in 1.70


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248756&stc=1&d=1270634458

I've got fog of war showing up everywhere, same problem except I have no vassals. The opposite also happens - getting fog of war lifted from places it's not supposed to (faraway places when I have no units and no cultural borders nearby). If I had to take a guess I'd say it has something to do with fixed borders and the way it gives you all the territory of a newly conquered city, even if you razed it as soon as you conquered it - it only seems to happen on plots that belonged to a city that got razed.

NBAfan
Apr 07, 2010, 09:28 PM
I've got fog of war showing up everywhere, same problem except I have no vassals. The opposite also happens - getting fog of war lifted from places it's not supposed to (faraway places when I have no units and no cultural borders nearby). If I had to take a guess I'd say it has something to do with fixed borders and the way it gives you all the territory of a newly conquered city, even if you razed it as soon as you conquered it - it only seems to happen on plots that belonged to a city that got razed.I suspect it could be the Towers modmod.

Afforess
Apr 07, 2010, 09:32 PM
Foreword: Thank you, Afforess for your kind admonition!

I have a strange problem with some plots in my territory which suddenly got fog of war on them (after declaration of war because I accepted a vassal I think). Even units can't be seen if moved there - but they still show up as moveable.

Encountered in 1.70


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=248756&stc=1&d=1270634458

Fog of War is such a PITA... :(

The National unit limit is broken. I am playing with 2.9, 1.71 and VIP.

No, its not. Next turn, it will remove the extra units.

@ To All With Crash Problems with AND 1.70,

I've done a lot of bug fixing with AND 1.72, and fixed a couple CTD bugs. While this means you will be unable to continue the crashed games from the old version, it should mean that you don't get CTD's with 1.72. Hopefully.

NBAfan
Apr 07, 2010, 09:36 PM
No, its not. Next turn, it will remove the extra units.Yep, I just noticed that.;)

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 07, 2010, 10:34 PM
The National unit limit is broken. I am playing with 2.9, 1.71 and VIP.
No, its not. Next turn, it will remove the extra units.
And this means that it is not broken? It certianly seems so to me especially as I queue a number of missionaries in many cities to get many religions spread! Is the bit that causes this an optional extra? eg part of better rom or is it a default part of AND? Just so I know what not to install the next time I play with AND.

Afforess
Apr 07, 2010, 10:37 PM
And this means that it is not broken? It certianly seems so to me especially as I queue a number of missionaries in many cities to get many religions spread! Is the bit that causes this an optional extra? eg part of better rom or is it a default part of AND? Just so I know what not to install the next time I play with AND.

Not optional ATM, but I actually plan on rolling back my changes, so it will be gone in 1.73.

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 07, 2010, 10:57 PM
Not optional ATM, but I actually plan on rolling back my changes, so it will be gone in 1.73.

OK, thanks, there were 3 problems with1.71 which were big ones for me and that was one of them. The national and shrine movies not playing was another. Can't remember the third but then I have not played with AND while I am getting the Subdue Animals mod ready for a release. Just got to merge a RoM version of the hunting lodge and do a final test.

Hydromancerx
Apr 08, 2010, 01:36 AM
I like most of the changes you did to the Science Mod however I am curious why some buildings were not tweaked like the Archaeology Lab. For instance some have + science while others have % science. Why do they have a mixture of both and not all just the same?

Ones that have % Science ...

Biology Lab
5% Science

Chemistry Lab
3% Science with Chemicals

Archaeology Lab (Looks like no tweaking from Original)
5% Science
5% Science with Ancient Relics
5% Science with Modern Seismology

Geology Lab
2% Science (For Each Mineral Resource)

Paleontology Lab
5% Science
3% Science for Coal
2% Science for Stone

Shouldn't the main 5% Science be a + instead?A dn possibly the same thing for ones connected with techs?

Also you may want to adjust the costs of the buildings now that you tweaked them. I when I did the coast I did 5% science = 50 cost with a starting cost of 100. Now that you tweaked them all around you may want to make some earlier ones cheaper and later ones more expensive.

I still do not see your tweaks tweaked. Basiclly what I am asking is that you change the following ...

Biology Lab
5% Science -> +5 Science

Archaeology Lab
5% Science -> +5 Science
5% Science with Modern Seismology -> +3 Science with Modern Seismology

Paleontology Lab
5% Science -> +5 Science

This way they at least are uniform with all the other science buildings that you tweaked 5% science to +5 science.

Kroyon
Apr 08, 2010, 01:49 AM
Sorry I am unable to install, at the end of the installation it gives an error about not finding woc_installer.jar

It then fails to install AND.
I am running Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit and this error only started appearing with 170 beta3. Although the beta3 was my first trial of 170, I never had probs with 15x or 16x before.

I did disable UAC, deleted the whole ROM folder and reinstalled ROM, patched ROM to 2.91.

Thx for your help.

Alorente
Apr 08, 2010, 05:29 AM
I'm playing my second game with 1.72. I noticed in both games that we are back to needing Iron Working to build cottages in forest squares. What happened to building cottages without removing forests? If removal is now necessary, what happened with only needing bronze working to remove the forests? Also, you once again lose a hammer when building cottages. Another change from 1.71 where you didn't lose any. Maybe the culprit is the 2.91 ROM patch?

Either way, IMHO it should to be changed.

Slammer64
Apr 08, 2010, 06:40 AM
@Alorente Here's how to change it, Afforess must have overlooked it: In Civ4BuildInfos.xml, find and replace all the times "IRON_WORKING" appears for "FEATURE_FOREST to "BRONZE_WORKING"

Victuz
Apr 08, 2010, 07:53 AM
I'm having serious issue with the new dawn.
Every time I start a new game (and I can't load a save because I haven't played the game before) it crashes right after the "initializing" phase of loading and I get this communicate:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4886/23123123.png (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/23123123.png/)

I have the "complete" edition of Civilization IV patched to 3.1.9 also I have updated every possible part of my hardware and even reinstalled the game itself. Nothing seems to help.

Also RoM 2.9 seems to work just fine, nothing crashes and I can play the game normally.

My system specs:
- 3gb ram (I physically have 4 gb but my XP can only work with 3)
- Radeon 4850 HD Toxic 512mb
- 2 CPU + 2ghz each.

I seriously don't know what's causing this since I didn't have a C++ error in years.

PS. Also I have 1.71 version of AND but right now i noticed (in Alorente post) that there is a 1.72 version soooo... looking for it now Oo.

EDIT: Nope... 1.72 still has the same problem :p

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 08:20 AM
Sorry I am unable to install, at the end of the installation it gives an error about not finding woc_installer.jar

It then fails to install AND.
I am running Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit and this error only started appearing with 170 beta3. Although the beta3 was my first trial of 170, I never had probs with 15x or 16x before.

I did disable UAC, deleted the whole ROM folder and reinstalled ROM, patched ROM to 2.91.

Thx for your help.

Can you upload the ANewDawn.log file? It is located in your Rise of Mankind folder. If you don't see it, install again, and ignore the error message, so the log file gets created. Thanks. ;)

I'm having serious issue with the new dawn.
Every time I start a new game (and I can't load a save because I haven't played the game before) it crashes right after the "initializing" phase of loading and I get this communicate:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4886/23123123.png (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/23123123.png/)

I have the "complete" edition of Civilization IV patched to 3.1.9 also I have updated every possible part of my hardware and even reinstalled the game itself. Nothing seems to help.

Also RoM 2.9 seems to work just fine, nothing crashes and I can play the game normally.

My system specs:
- 3gb ram (I physically have 4 gb but my XP can only work with 3)
- Radeon 4850 HD Toxic 512mb
- 2 CPU + 2ghz each.

I seriously don't know what's causing this since I didn't have a C++ error in years.

PS. Also I have 1.71 version of AND but right now i noticed (in Alorente post) that there is a 1.72 version soooo... looking for it now Oo.

If you still get crashing issues with 1.72, upload your A New Dawn.log file.

Victuz
Apr 08, 2010, 08:24 AM
If you still get crashing issues with 1.72, upload your A New Dawn.log file.

You mean that

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Standard

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
E:\Gry\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP


EDIT: Read the earlier part of that post xP Reinstalling the mod now.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 08:28 AM
I'm playing my second game with 1.72. I noticed in both games that we are back to needing Iron Working to build cottages in forest squares. What happened to building cottages without removing forests? If removal is now necessary, what happened with only needing bronze working to remove the forests? Also, you once again lose a hammer when building cottages. Another change from 1.71 where you didn't lose any. Maybe the culprit is the 2.91 ROM patch?

Either way, IMHO it should to be changed.

It's part of Vincentz' trading posts.

Slammer64
Apr 08, 2010, 09:30 AM
Afforess, I'm sorry I jumped in about the forest chopping, I didn't know that Vincent's mod had required it :cry:

Victuz
Apr 08, 2010, 10:01 AM
Afforess I'm afraid I already know what's causing the problem.
I've read a bit on Polish forums (I'm Polish) and from what I understand it's the Polish "Complete edition" that's causing the troubles. That's actually not surprising me since Cenega (the distributor of the game in Poland) is infamous for screwing up games they sell :P. Mainly by putting anti-pirate stuff that sometimes only disables modding of the game and other times renders the games unplayable.

Last time I had this happen it was with their edition of Fallout 3. Their software rendered it impossible to properly patch or mod the game. Not even mentioning the fact that they dissabled Live for the game...

I hate Cenega...

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 10:07 AM
Afforess I'm afraid I already know what's causing the problem.
I've read a bit on Polish forums (I'm Polish) and from what I understand it's the Polish "Complete edition" that's causing the troubles. That's actually not surprising me since Cenega (the distributor of the game in Poland) is infamous for screwing up games they sell :P. Mainly by putting anti-pirate stuff that sometimes only disables modding of the game and other times renders the games unplayable.

Last time I had this happen it was with their edition of Fallout 3. Their software rendered it impossible to properly patch or mod the game. Not even mentioning the fact that they dissabled Live for the game...

I hate Cenega...

Well, you own the game, so you could *get* a backup copy from...undisclosed places... If you know what I mean. :mischief:

Not that I encourage that behavior. :p

Victuz
Apr 08, 2010, 10:39 AM
Well, you own the game, so you could *get* a backup copy from...undisclosed places... If you know what I mean. :mischief:

Not that I encourage that behavior. :p

Hmmm... But will I be able to patch such backup copy properly? or do you just mean switching exe file? ;)
Not that I'm planning to do anything like that.

E_Pluribus_Unum
Apr 08, 2010, 10:47 AM
RoM 2.91 and AND 1.71 are not compatible.

Really? More than 500 turns passed without a problem. The glance is a minor bug, I can play without any error.
BTW, I see 1.72 came out. If I install will it broke my current save game?

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 10:51 AM
Really? More than 500 turns passed without a problem. The glance is a minor bug, I can play without any error.
BTW, I see 1.72 came out. If I install will it broke my current save game?

Yeah. It will break your save.

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 11:28 AM
I just started a new game with culturally linked starts, using all 39 civs, and it still doesn't seem to be working. Is there anything that causes it to break? I used the RFC Huge Earth Map custom scenario, chose what leader I wanted to be and the leaders for a few other civs, but I don't think that would break it. Why isn't it working? I hate putting all the civs in their correct places with the world builder every time I start.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 11:36 AM
I just started a new game with culturally linked starts, using all 39 civs, and it still doesn't seem to be working. Is there anything that causes it to break? I used the RFC Huge Earth Map custom scenario, chose what leader I wanted to be and the leaders for a few other civs, but I don't think that would break it. Why isn't it working? I hate putting all the civs in their correct places with the world builder every time I start.

What do you mean by not working? The scenario, does it use preset starting locations?

ravenone
Apr 08, 2010, 11:37 AM
@Alorente Here's how to change it, Afforess must have overlooked it: In Civ4BuildInfos.xml, find and replace all the times "IRON_WORKING" appears for "FEATURE_FOREST to "BRONZE_WORKING"

I tried this and it didn't change the need for Iron Working and trees being removed to build a cottage.

Is there any other files or places that need to be changed? I changed all I could find in the Civ4BuildInfos.xml file (4 or 5 places).

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 11:42 AM
I tried this and it didn't change the need for Iron Working and trees being removed to build a cottage.

Is there any other files or places that need to be changed? I changed all I could find in the Civ4BuildInfos.xml file (4 or 5 places).

The file you need to look at is in Modules/Projects/Vincentz/Improve. ;)

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 11:44 AM
What do you mean by not working? The scenario, does it use preset starting locations?

No, It's random, but I thought that culturally linked starts would overwrite that.

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 12:09 PM
Oops double post

astarmrus
Apr 08, 2010, 01:14 PM
The file you need to look at is in Modules/Projects/Vincentz/Improve. ;)

ok, well I managed to do it, but how make it possible to build cottages without chopping down the forest? Is it like a new feature of 1.72?

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 01:33 PM
ok, well I managed to do it, but how make it possible to build cottages without chopping down the forest? Is it like a new feature of 1.72?

No. It is a Regression.

No, It's random, but I thought that culturally linked starts would overwrite that.

If it has pre-defined starting locations, Culturally Linked Starts will never run, because the starting location code is never executed, simple as that.

AndarielHalo
Apr 08, 2010, 01:48 PM
Nothing pisses me off more in this game than the lying-:):):):)ing battle stats and dice roll predictions. They are :):):):):):):):). COMPLETE AND UTTER :):):):)ING :):):):):):):):).

These offenses are EGREGIOUS! It happens in EVERY BUILD of this mod, and probably in the base game.

But my problem is less with the stupidity of the decision to make archers somehow able to defeat TWO armored spearmen, but the stats outright LYING by saying I have a 53% chance of winning.

I have loaded and reloaded this save and re-played this battle. I send in BOTH my spearmen units against ONE barbarian arrcher. They ALWAYS LOSE. BOTH OF THEM.

In fact, it seems like every time I reload and play it out, THE EXACT SAME STATS HAPPEN EVERY SINGLE TIME. THE FIRST SPEARMAN IS ALWAYS KILLED, THE ENEMY ARCHER IS ALWAYS DOWN TO 2.4/3 HEALTH, AND THE SECOND SPEARMAN IS ALWAYS KILLED BY THE LAST REMAINING ARCHER.


Something is severely wrong here. This isn't a case of an enemy unit being better at defense than offense, it's a case of disgustingly inaccurate battle probability statistics and a heaping help of BULL :):):):)

Stormwind
Apr 08, 2010, 01:57 PM
Then don't attack with a chance of lower than 95%.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 02:03 PM
Something is severely wrong here.

I tire of this. You have delighted us long enough. Please post in a reasonable manner, or not at all. The RNG in AND is exactly the same one used in BTS, and the RNG is BTS has been proven to be fair.

AndarielHalo
Apr 08, 2010, 02:05 PM
The only conclusion I can draw, leaving aside the obvious and 100% proven pro-AI bias, is that the battle statistics are pre-determined BEFORE each turn, so I can reload each new turn autosave and get the SAME RESULT every 4-1,000,301 times, unless I change it somehow to lose in a new way

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 02:06 PM
The only conclusion I can draw, leaving aside the obvious and 100% proven pro-AI bias, is that the battle statistics are pre-determined BEFORE each turn, so I can reload each new turn autosave and get the SAME RESULT every 4-1,000,301 times, unless I change it somehow to lose in a new way

Yes, that is EXACTLY how RNG's work. You should go read up on them. ;)

Also, there is NO Pro-AI bias. If anything, the game is horribly tilted in the humans favor. The human can reload saves to alter the game, use the worldbuilder, and cheat. The AI has no such advantage.

AndarielHalo
Apr 08, 2010, 02:07 PM
I haven't researched Alphabet yet.

Stormwind
Apr 08, 2010, 02:08 PM
Theres a game option called "Random Seed on reload" which probably does change the values in the saved game but IDK exactly.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 02:08 PM
Theres a game option called "Random Seed on reload" which probably does change the values in the saved game but IDK exactly.

Yes, that is exactly what it does. However, the new seed is not random, but is psuedo-random.

Grathocke
Apr 08, 2010, 03:03 PM
But my problem is less with the stupidity of the decision to make archers somehow able to defeat TWO armored spearmen, but the stats outright LYING by saying I have a 53% chance of winning.

This is exactly what Sid was talking about.

os79
Apr 08, 2010, 03:09 PM
:coughcough:

What is "RNG"? :)

:coughcough:

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 03:21 PM
:coughcough:

What is "RNG"? :)

:coughcough:

Random Number Generator.

Computers can not actually generate random numbers. Computer scientists found the way to create the most fair RNG was to base the future values off of past values. The first random number is generated by a 'seed' value, so, theoretically, you could predict every number generated off of that seed value, to infinitum. This is what Civ uses. It is also how/why multiplayer can go out of sync. OOS errors are when, for whatever reason, the random number generated by each machine was not identical, despite having the same seed value.

Now, with Random Numbers, which Heads/Tails combinations are more likely:


THTHTHTHTHTHTHTHTH

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

TTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHH


Answer:

It's a trick question, each is just as likely as the other, they all have the same probability of happening. This is why AndarielHalo is mad, as he got a streak of bad numbers. A streak of bad numbers is just as likely as good numbers.

I highly recommend reading up on and learning basic probability, wikipedia is a good resource.

os79
Apr 08, 2010, 03:41 PM
Random Number Generator.

Computers can not actually generate random numbers. Computer scientists found the way to create the most fair RNG was to base the future values off of past values. The first random number is generated by a 'seed' value, so, theoretically, you could predict every number generated off of that seed value, to infinitum. This is what Civ uses. It is also how/why multiplayer can go out of sync. OOS errors are when, for whatever reason, the random number generated by each machine was not identical, despite having the same seed value.

Now, with Random Numbers, which Heads/Tails combinations are more likely:


THTHTHTHTHTHTHTHTH

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

TTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHH


Answer:

It's a trick question, each is just as likely as the other, they all have the same probability of happening. This is why AndarielHalo is mad, as he got a streak of bad numbers. A streak of bad numbers is just as likely as good numbers.

I highly recommend reading up on and learning basic probability, wikipedia is a good resource.

Thanks. I got it. I remember reading something similar when reading arguments against "see God did it!" etc, and an arguer posited this exact same explanations of why "blessings" happen. it was purely random and we just sometimes have a long run of good luck due to randomness of events in this universe.

I know the above statements are not precisely the same as RNG :lol: but it is still understandable :).
Thanks!

Slammer64
Apr 08, 2010, 04:27 PM
Heh, I've lost battles when I had a 90%+ chance of winning, but I've won battles where I've had a less than 5%+ of winning. Afforess is right, pseudo-random numbers generated by seed is a common method of getting a result, there was a major update of certain Linux distros when it was found that /dev/urandom wasn't generating sufficently random numbers. Now that bit of trivia and $4.00 might get you a cuppa joe at Starbucks if you're lucky.

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 07:20 PM
If it has pre-defined starting locations, Culturally Linked Starts will never run, because the starting location code is never executed, simple as that.

But I also tried it on Earth 2 and Perfect World 2 and it still didn't work. What maps does it work on?

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 07:21 PM
But I also tried it on Earth 2 and Perfect World 2 and it still didn't work. What maps does it work on?

It should work on all custom games. What do you mean by 'not working'?

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 07:24 PM
It should work on all custom games. What do you mean by 'not working'?

Civs end up in random places on the map; near civs they were never near in real life, and also they aren't in the correct places.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 07:26 PM
Civs end up in random places on the map; near civs they were never near in real life, and also they aren't in the correct places.

Post a screenshot of the world with the names of each civ labeled, or upload a worldbuilder save.

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 07:32 PM
Post a screenshot of the world with the names of each civ labeled, or upload a worldbuilder save.

Too late now, I already started a game, and put all 39 civs in their actual places or close to them, using the world builder which takes forever :eek: (in the RFC map scenario, which I guess it doesn't work in) The Earth 2 game and Perfect World 2 game are gone. :(

But what basically happened was as America I would end up no where near the civs it's actually close to geographically.

os79
Apr 08, 2010, 07:41 PM
Too late now, I already started a game, and put all 39 civs in their actual places or close to them, using the world builder which takes forever :eek: (in the RFC map scenario, which I guess it doesn't work in) The Earth 2 game and Perfect World 2 game are gone. :(

But what basically happened was as America I would end up no where near the civs it's actually close to geographically.

I asked the same question before. OK, here is the basic answer. CLS has nothing to do with appropriate locations of civs to each other. It is more of generating a map that would realistic if we were to look at the satellite of the world you are playing in. Something like that. It is not about having civs being close to each other if they are close to each other in real life.

soup567
Apr 08, 2010, 07:47 PM
I asked the same question before. OK, here is the basic answer. CLS has nothing to do with appropriate locations of civs to each other. It is more of generating a map that would realistic if we were to look at the satellite of the world you are playing in. Something like that. It is not about having civs being close to each other if they are close to each other in real life.

Oh I get it now! Thanks :goodjob:

traxantes
Apr 08, 2010, 08:20 PM
Afforess,
First of all let me thank you for your excellent modmod! I find it lifts the experience of playing RoM.
Since 1.7 I've encountered problems not previously experienced with AND. First off, I couldn't load custom games that previously were not problematic, eg selecting most options, huge map - the loading process would terminate in an exception error. Having managed to load a game, with a large map, play for some time (up to 663BC) without any hiccups, now I can't reload. I again receive an exception error. I have already clean installed RoM 2.9 and AND 1.7 (I wasn't getting anywhere with 1.71). Any suggestions offered would be appreciated.
My latest savegame is attached.

i_diavolorosso
Apr 08, 2010, 08:38 PM
Aff, if my screen suddenly freeze(with 1.71), no ctd nor maf error message appear(i use 4gb ram in 7 ,ultimate 64bit, with tha 3gb enabled thing. the save game itself was only about 1mb so maf is very unlikely), just freeze, what possibly cause this?

Note:Now that i remembered it correctly, this kind of freeze was often appear in my game, when a leaderhead is popping up. But usually it just freeze 5e for 2-3 seconds, while this one freeze for about 5 minutes, 'till i shut my laptop down. Sadly, i rarely save my game :P.

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 08:39 PM
Afforess,
First of all let me thank you for your excellent modmod! I find it lifts the experience of playing RoM.
Since 1.7 I've encountered problems not previously experienced with AND. First off, I couldn't load custom games that previously were not problematic, eg selecting most options, huge map - the loading process would terminate in an exception error. Having managed to load a game, with a large map, play for some time (up to 663BC) without any hiccups, now I can't reload. I again receive an exception error. I have already clean installed RoM 2.9 and AND 1.7 (I wasn't getting anywhere with 1.71). Any suggestions offered would be appreciated.
My latest savegame is attached.

1.70, eh?

Can you post your computer specs? Also, from your main Rise of Mankind folder could you post your A New Dawn.log file? That will help me immensely ;)

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 08, 2010, 08:50 PM
:mischief:BTW, you can get machine generated random numbers see here

Afforess
Apr 08, 2010, 08:53 PM
There is no such thing as a 'random' number in the first place, since any number a human would come up with would have been influenced by something. Same with machines.

arcozelo
Apr 08, 2010, 10:11 PM
53% chance of winning are lousy odds. The battle dynamics of BtS have a lot of randomness even with good odds (90%) and a lot of people complain about it. I think there is a way to reduce the randomness by introducing first strikes everywhere - since both units get guaranteed free first strikes, and the damage inflicted by those depends on the strength ratio between them it follows that the stronger unit will get slightly damaged in exchange for a very reduced probability of the weaker unit winning or inflicting additional damage beyond the first strike (since it will get more damage from the first strike, reducing hit points and further reducing its odds of scoring non-guaranteed hits). I saw this effect put to good use in the Total Realism mod for Warlords. The drawback to this is that once you lose the tech lead it becomes even more difficult to get anywhere since you can't rely so much on superior numbers with inferior units.

NBAfan
Apr 08, 2010, 10:37 PM
Never mind what I said about the Towers mod causing the Fog of war bug as I have it again. I will play without Advanced Diplomacy next game and see what happens.

Sinapus
Apr 08, 2010, 11:32 PM
I suspect it could be the Towers modmod.

Might be. I'm still making my own little test with the "LineofSight" flag removed from all the Tower buildings to see if the fog of war problem comes back.

strategyonly
Apr 08, 2010, 11:52 PM
This is the second time now, that something like this has occurred? There are no files in the WoG file for Dancing H's WoG? It happened before but with a different file(s).

Do you think its the installer, or a bad d/l?

Plus i am getting the "old" buildings being built again more than once needed, ie: I have built a goat farm now two times etc.

Kroyon
Apr 09, 2010, 12:25 AM
Can you upload the ANewDawn.log file?

Here it is:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
D:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword

Windows Version:
Windows

Cykur
Apr 09, 2010, 03:25 AM
Well, recently upgraded to Windows 7 and decided to break out Civ IV again. Got RoM 2.91 & AND 1.72 installed and it seems to run fine with one problem. BUG mod won't retain settings.

The first time I launched a game BUG mod was not able to create its user setting / ini files (I assume in the RoM UserSettings directory). I have dredged through several threads from the RoM / AND / Bug forums and while I have seen other people report the problem or report that the BUG mod does not keep user settings in Vista/Windows 7, I am still not clear on how to fix it. I could do it manually if I had a copy of the files, but I need to somehow get Civ IV to generate these files. I also don't want to play around too much and break RoM / AND.

I know this isn't technically an AND issue, but this problem is a grey area that falls more on the side of how it is merged with the mod in question according to the BUG forums. This must be a common issue... can someone point me to the thread on how to fix this or give me a pointer?

Thanks!

Stormwind
Apr 09, 2010, 03:32 AM
Start Civ4 as Administrator or do not install Civ4 in "Program Files".

Cykur
Apr 09, 2010, 04:15 AM
Start Civ4 as Administrator or do not install Civ4 in "Program Files".

Hummm....my user login has full administrator power, but I will give it a try. I guess it isn't the same. Wish I'd known beforehand, I would have put it in another directory.

Thank you.

Stormwind
Apr 09, 2010, 04:25 AM
Program Files and Program Files (x86) - on 64bit Systems - are a special case, write access is restricted, even if the login-user is Admin.

Cykur
Apr 09, 2010, 04:40 AM
Program Files and Program Files (x86) - on 64bit Systems - are a special case, write access is restricted, even if the login-user is Admin.

Yeah, looks like I'm re-installing civ. I'm definitely using the Admin login. I will make a point to keep my moddable games in a /games directory from now on....

Thx!

strategyonly
Apr 09, 2010, 05:12 AM
I've got fog of war showing up everywhere, same problem except I have no vassals. The opposite also happens - getting fog of war lifted from places it's not supposed to (faraway places when I have no units and no cultural borders nearby). If I had to take a guess I'd say it has something to do with fixed borders and the way it gives you all the territory of a newly conquered city, even if you razed it as soon as you conquered it - it only seems to happen on plots that belonged to a city that got razed.

Yeah i can confirm, i am still getting that FoG stuff also. New installs of everything current.

ssgts
Apr 09, 2010, 05:47 AM
the game said my population exceeds the domination limit for xx percent, what does that mean?

NotSoGood
Apr 09, 2010, 05:55 AM
the game said my population exceeds the domination limit for xx percent, what does that mean?

That if your land area also exceeds the domination limit, you'll win domination victory. So nothing to worry about.

ssgts
Apr 09, 2010, 07:11 AM
That if your land area also exceeds the domination limit, you'll win domination victory. So nothing to worry about.

thanks a lot NOtSOGood:D

Zabujca
Apr 09, 2010, 07:14 AM
Some thoughts/issues from my ongoing game in RoM 2.91 + AND 1.72:
1. How do you build the Departament of Water? Even though I had both Civil Service and Canal Systems (or something to that effect) researched it still didn't show up for construction.
2. The bonuses from the dentist are kind of silly, especially before you upgrade that building with tech - specifically the +1 :yuck: from sugar. You'd think that a civ with ready access to sugar products would benefit more from dentistry than one without it, and yet the latter actually gets a net +1 :health: while the former gets exactly nothing (with some promises of actually doing something later) making those offices a pretty much useless waste of time. If the goal here is to model "sweets make your teeth rot", a better idea would be to move the +1 :yuck: to sugar itself, while giving the dentist -1 :yuck: from sugar. Or better yet, assume that overuse of sugar products would be related to having a supermarket or a hypermarket in the vicinity (which is already being done) and just make sugar give + 1 :yuck: only if there's a supermarket and no dentist in the city (which admittedly may not be doable, I don't really know if civ's that great with conditional bonuses), or simply have the dentist negate all :yuck: from sugar. A similar approach could also work with the rehabilitation center, which gives silly resource maluses of their own.
3. Related to 2: do bonuses given to resources transfer between building upgrades? Because if not, then although I can see the rationale behind giving :yuck: to, say, tobbaco with a supermarket in the city, I can't really see one for NOT giving it afer a hypermarket has been built.
4. This may or may not be intentional, but there are some tiles where it's impossible to build cottages, yet it's completely possible to build villages. Specifically, I've seen that on tundra and glacier tiles that had acces to fresh water from a nearby city (thanks to the water buildings).

xcrissxcrossx
Apr 09, 2010, 09:01 AM
I started a new game with AND 1.72, and it keeps freezing every 2 or 3 turns. The previous version only crashed a few times per game, and this is way more frequent. I am only playing on a small map, and before I would play on huge maps and be fine.

A New Dawn.log
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Deep-Red Interface} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Gold\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Sinapus
Apr 09, 2010, 10:58 AM
Um... are the files for the "National Slave Auction" national wonder supposed to be spelled like:

National_Slave_Acution_Civ4

?

Retrospect
Apr 09, 2010, 11:00 AM
Yeah, looks like I'm re-installing civ. I'm definitely using the Admin login. I will make a point to keep my moddable games in a /games directory from now on....

Thx!

I try not to install anything to progam files (x86) as it restricts the user too much. It's a pain that nearly all software defaults to that location :sad:

Best thing to do with all of your exe programmes is to right click on the icon, go to properties and select the shortcut tab, click advanced then check the box saying run as administrator apply and ok. This should remove any problems that relate to write and security issues.

Also i dont use UAC as it gave me too many problems and watch out for security essentials if you use it as it has even stopped me from streaming vids now.

I like how my computer tells ME what I can and can't do. I have to ask IT's permission, what a great relationship we have :sad:

NBAfan
Apr 09, 2010, 11:56 AM
Afforess, if I play with VIP, should I uncheck all of Vincentz's mods in the installer?

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 12:20 PM
Afforess, if I play with VIP, should I uncheck all of Vincentz's mods in the installer?

Yes. However, some mods between AND & VIP are incompatible. User Beware!

Toddy
Apr 09, 2010, 12:42 PM
Afforess, I have a CTD after ending this turn with 1.72.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 12:55 PM
Thanks Toddy, I'm looking into it.

NBAfan
Apr 09, 2010, 02:16 PM
Yes. However, some mods between AND & VIP are incompatible. User Beware!Is it just Domesticated Animals? I don't use it so there should be no problems right?

Arakhor
Apr 09, 2010, 04:10 PM
Why do the Germans in that picture have the Nazi swastika as their flag? Isn't that enormously disrespectful to the current German republic?

fireclaw722
Apr 09, 2010, 04:57 PM
Look at picture, I don't think that should be an option(someone could tap it on accident, making things a little buggy).

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 05:19 PM
Afforess, I have a CTD after ending this turn with 1.72.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

Okay Toddy, I found the bug and fixed the crashing issue. Expect a Patch A which will be save compatible and allow you to continue your game. ;)

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 06:55 PM
Toddy, I have released 1.72 Patch A which will fix your CTD problem. ;)

traxantes
Apr 09, 2010, 07:59 PM
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Deep-Red Interface} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
J:\Games\Civilization IV\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 08:06 PM
Looking into it Traxantes.

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 08:26 PM
Traxantes, I loaded your save fine, but I didn't see it crash. I played for ten turns without any problems.

traxantes
Apr 09, 2010, 09:09 PM
isn't that the way? Thanks for looking into it. The game just starts getting exciting, when there are regular (every 2 or so turns) crashes!!

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 09:37 PM
isn't that the way? Thanks for looking into it. The game just starts getting exciting, when there are regular (every 2 or so turns) crashes!!

I didn't see it crash at all. However, sometimes when the diplomacy screen comes it, the game lags a bit, so it could appear that it froze up. If it is crashing a lot, it might have to do more with your computer specs and not the mod.

traxantes
Apr 09, 2010, 09:49 PM
OK, my specs are:
AMD 64X2 Dual CP 5000+
2.61 GHz, 3.25 Gb Ram
XP SP2
NVIDIA GeForce 7300SE 512Mb

It seems to be pretty much crashing regularly (2-3 turns), and occasionally freezing (though not on a diplomacy screen - it only does it between turns).

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 09:52 PM
It seems to be pretty much crashing regularly (2-3 turns), and occasionally freezing (though not on a diplomacy screen - it only does it between turns).

Your specs are fine. What are the error messages on the crash. Is it just the "windows has encountered an error" message, or does the game give you a message before it crashes?

scribbler
Apr 09, 2010, 09:56 PM
Program Files and Program Files (x86) - on 64bit Systems - are a special case, write access is restricted, even if the login-user is Admin.

Best solution is to set the security in the usersettings directory in RoM to allow access to everyone.

traxantes
Apr 09, 2010, 10:02 PM
Your specs are fine. What are the error messages on the crash. Is it just the "windows has encountered an error" message, or does the game give you a message before it crashes?

Yes, windows has encountered an error.

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 10:03 PM
Yes, windows has encountered an error.

Quick question, why are you using XP SP2, not 3? It probably has no relevance, just curious.

Now, the real question, does RoM alone crash often, or just RoM & AND?

Jozef
Apr 09, 2010, 10:14 PM
Good day. For some reason, I get CTD after an hour or more of playing.
Playing custom game, huge map, with number of civilization limited to 22, usual options of The New Dawn.

System info: WinXp, 2GB Ram. Usually play this kind of custom games on huge maps without any problem.

Tried to delete and reinstall both Rom and The New Dawn, but it didn't help - i just got CTD a little bit later (instead before finding out a Wheel, CTD just before finding out Dualism).

Please see the attached save file (the next turn CTD happens).

scribbler
Apr 09, 2010, 10:19 PM
I try not to install anything to progam files (x86) as it restricts the user too much. It's a pain that nearly all software defaults to that location :sad:

Best thing to do with all of your exe programmes is to right click on the icon, go to properties and select the shortcut tab, click advanced then check the box saying run as administrator apply and ok. This should remove any problems that relate to write and security issues.

Also i dont use UAC as it gave me too many problems and watch out for security essentials if you use it as it has even stopped me from streaming vids now.

I like how my computer tells ME what I can and can't do. I have to ask IT's permission, what a great relationship we have :sad:

:faint:

Ok, please disregard this advice.

Please, for the love of God, disregard this advice.

Do you know how many times I've had to deal with computers that were corrupted due to users being too sure of themselves? Do you know how much of Windows Vista/7 (and just about any modern operating system's) security is dependent on programs NOT running as administrator? :twitch:

No? Then please don't take this advice.

You'll save yourself a bunch of headaches down the road (then you'll have plenty of time for retrospect, nach). I say this as someone that fixes computers and is currently, as we speak, cleaning out a computer that had been turned into a zombie by a "freeware" game that had been installed by a client's daughter who had been given admin privileges (not that the client herself is much use, as she's a complete ignoramus about computers too - but at least she knows it and readily admits it).

As I said in an earlier post, just changing the security on the Usersettings directory in the RoM folder is the safest, best, really, way of allowing you to handle mods without compromising your system. If you reinstall the mod often, however, you're better off changing the security on the mods folder. PM me if you want instructions on doing so.

Unless you happen to be in the west-side of the Toronto (Ontario, Canada) area. Then you can PM after your computer gets malwared to death/zombified/whatever. I charge by the hour, two hours minimum. [pimp]

scribbler
Apr 09, 2010, 10:47 PM
Quick question, why are you using XP SP2, not 3? It probably has no relevance, just curious.

Now, the real question, does RoM alone crash often, or just RoM & AND?

Actually, this is an important question to ask when providing support. It tells you a few things about traxantes.

One, unless traxantes has SP2 because of compatibility issues with a proprietary program that won't work with SP3, traxantes can't be a very knowledgeable user (although he/she may think he/she's a knowledgeable user). Not a bad thing - not everyone can or needs to be super computer savvy.

But two, the worse thing, is that as a non-tech-savvy user, the chance that traxantes has other computer problems is high. It's even likely that behavior that traxantes attributes to something else is in fact malware/adware/zombification. Mind you, it could also be a faulty power supply, not enough air in the case, etc. <latino voice>Let me tell you compatre, computers are frickin-complicated.</latino voice>

Most of the XP computers that I say are not upgraded to SP3. Sometimes because at some point the updater was corrupted and now it won't even install SP3. But the users just keep on trucking, and assume all the problems they have are normal.

So it's a very relevant question. :)

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 11:04 PM
Wow Scribbler, I should put you in charge of this thread... except that you probably don't want to do your real job for free, lol...

I suspect Traxantes has other issues than just my mod, since I could load his save, and play it just fine. Users who experience crashes every 2-3 turns have some other underlying problem, as I can go for 1000's of turns without any crashes.

Jozef
Apr 09, 2010, 11:29 PM
Afforess, could you also load and play my savefile, that i posted few posts earlier?

Since i played this kind of custom games without any problems on earlier versions of Rom and The New Dawn, i don't think that crashes happen due to some other problems with my computer or system.

ssgts
Apr 09, 2010, 11:35 PM
My system is windows 7 ultimate 64bit , everything goes fine. lol

Afforess
Apr 09, 2010, 11:42 PM
Afforess, could you also load and play my savefile, that i posted few posts earlier?

Since i played this kind of custom games without any problems on earlier versions of Rom and The New Dawn, i don't think that crashes happen due to some other problems with my computer or system.

Sorry, I missed your post. Could you post your A New Dawn.log file as well? I can't load your save without it. It can be found in your main Rise of Mankind folder.

scribbler
Apr 09, 2010, 11:56 PM
Wow Scribbler, I should put you in charge of this thread... except that you probably don't want to do your real job for free, lol...

I suspect Traxantes has other issues than just my mod, since I could load his save, and play it just fine. Users who experience crashes every 2-3 turns have some other underlying problem, as I can go for 1000's of turns without any crashes.

Well, when I'm available I'll try to help where I can, but I'm available off and on. I'm also not that much of a civ expert - my job means I'm a general troubleshooter (which mostly means I fix things after clients/users make a mess).

But to help, mind if I ask what machine you're running the game on? What OS version? Would help to setup a baseline for when the modmod works fine.

traxantes
Apr 09, 2010, 11:57 PM
@afforess: This is not typical behaviour for my pc, either playing Civ or doing anything else. I played ROM 2.9 for several hours without any ctd - the crashes only started with AND. I had experienced this sort of problem previously (usually with new versions of ROM and/or AND, though note, not with 2.9!), and things were eventually sorted with patches.
Re sp3 - no reason, I just haven't seen the need for it.
@scribbler: if I were a tech-savvy user (whatever is meant by that phrase) I might not see fit to post my ctd problems here. Do you have any useful advice to offer on my problems?

Jozef
Apr 10, 2010, 12:08 AM
Afforess, here is the log file, as you asked:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Standard

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:09 AM
Well, when I'm available I'll try to help where I can, but I'm available off and on. I'm also not that much of a civ expert - my job means I'm a general troubleshooter (which mostly means I fix things after clients/users make a mess).

That generally solves 1/2 of errors on these forums. I wish more people could troubleshoot, but then that would put you out of job, :lol: .


But to help, mind if I ask what machine you're running the game on? What OS version? Would help to setup a baseline for when the modmod works fine.

My specs on are my profile. ;)

@afforess: This is not typical behaviour for my pc, either playing Civ or doing anything else. I played ROM 2.9 for several hours without any ctd - the crashes only started with AND. I had experienced this sort of problem previously (usually with new versions of ROM and/or AND, though note, not with 2.9!), and things were eventually sorted with patches.
Re sp3 - no reason, I just haven't seen the need for it.


I'm afraid I don't have any more ideas. The only thing I can definitively say (and I hate to say this, it's such a cop-out answer) is that the problem is on your end. I tested your save and had no crashes for 25 turns before I quit testing. I can only give you basic advice, update drivers, install AntiVirus, update Windows... etc...

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:13 AM
Afforess, here is the log file, as you asked:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Standard

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Great, thanks. I'll look into your problem.

digitCruncher
Apr 10, 2010, 12:30 AM
OK... the first post doesn't have any current bug reports, so here is one, which has completely stopped my game :(

In short, I beelined Super-sonic flight, so I could get the 'unlimited air transport' boon. With it, I was able to re-inforce my newly captured Iriquos settlement, and, more importantly, move my airforce to bear on the Incans.

It worked. As you can see now, there are around 30-ish planes (mostly bombers, but a few P59's, and a few Strategic bombers <3) hovering over Inca and Aztecs.

After vassalising the Incans in 1 turn (captured 3 cities in the turn I declared war), and the Aztecs in 2 (captured 3 cities, and then another one on the third turn, then accepted peace), I decided the 3 hour session was too long, and saved.

Re-loaded several hours later and... whats this? I cannot re-inforce my army!? I have been limited to a tiny region of rebasing and air-lifting!! Completing a turn does not work.

I do *NOT* have a working save of when I was able to rebase (Going back 1 turn in autosaves doesn't allow me to transport), so obviously the ability to traverse the world in air-lifts and rebase missions is NOT saved with the game. As proof, I provide the auto save of the turn before (Note: Strategic Bomber 4 of Lagash is in Lagash at this time), and the current turn (Note: Strategic Bomber 4 of Lagash is now in Vilcas, an Aztec settlement, on the other side of the world). The only way it could get there is from the boon from supersonic flight, but in the autosave, you CANNOT make that journey

Log file:

{Required Files} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} NIMBY ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Better RoM Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions}

Custom

Note: This is also probably an old-ish version (1.70), but I didn't notice anything in the changelogs, so it is still probably a current bug. And it is annoying having strategic bombers capable of attacking at a greater distance than they can re-base!!

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:36 AM
You are indeed correct. I didn't even need to see your saves to confirm it. I forgot to save the variables for re-basing. I will release a patch B sometime today (err... Saturday, Eastern Time) to fix it. I need sleep first. ;)

Justin Cray
Apr 10, 2010, 02:11 AM
When I end the turn it stops all animation (music continues) and fails to react.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/o1jhkmyftmm/Ragnar%20AD-1419-July.CivBeyondSwordSave

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Farming {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization iv beyond the sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows (edit: Windows 7 Ultimate actually)

Justin Cray
Apr 10, 2010, 02:15 AM
btw I don't think Tactics is a good idea, there are now three different ways to get +1 to movement, wich is actually fine in a Quick game but I think it'll break slower games

Flay
Apr 10, 2010, 03:02 AM
Afforess?
Can you confirm that: (if you do I got a problem to fix . . .)

ROM 2.90 + AnD 1.71 Multiplayer - pitboss?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just to let everyone know:

ROM 2.90 + A new Dawn 1.71 work like a charm in MP with Revolutions on. strangely enough I tried to do it via Pitboss and it goes OOS as soon as someone joins.

Any Idea how to fix this?

Elvince

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=360633

Ciffor
Apr 10, 2010, 04:08 AM
If this really is a bug, I don't know.

I've been playing A New Dawn for some time now, and it's just great. But I have run into somewhat of a mystery regarding sound.

There's no sound in the game besides in the CIV 4 introduction movie and in some of the wonder movies.

I have no sound problem at all, with other applications nor windows and nor when I start a new ordinary game of civ without RoM/A New Dawn. And I've tried to change sound settings both in game and in Windows with no luck.
So, I figure it's gotta be A New Dawn .

Please help, as I really like the music accompanier me while I play :)

Thanks in advance for any help.

- Ciffor

Retrospect
Apr 10, 2010, 04:42 AM
:faint:

Ok, please disregard this advice.

Please, for the love of God, disregard this advice.

Do you know how many times I've had to deal with computers that were corrupted due to users being too sure of themselves? Do you know how much of Windows Vista/7 (and just about any modern operating system's) security is dependent on programs NOT running as administrator? :twitch:

No? Then please don't take this advice.

You'll save yourself a bunch of headaches down the road (then you'll have plenty of time for retrospect, nach). I say this as someone that fixes computers and is currently, as we speak, cleaning out a computer that had been turned into a zombie by a "freeware" game that had been installed by a client's daughter who had been given admin privileges (not that the client herself is much use, as she's a complete ignoramus about computers too - but at least she knows it and readily admits it).

As I said in an earlier post, just changing the security on the Usersettings directory in the RoM folder is the safest, best, really, way of allowing you to handle mods without compromising your system. If you reinstall the mod often, however, you're better off changing the security on the mods folder. PM me if you want instructions on doing so.

Unless you happen to be in the west-side of the Toronto (Ontario, Canada) area. Then you can PM after your computer gets malwared to death/zombified/whatever. I charge by the hour, two hours minimum. [pimp]

Well if you can't do ANYTHING because UAC or security essentials says you can't then what other option do you have? I am the admin of my computer and only user however I am constantly bombarded by restriction notices when I try to do the simplest of tasks, such as mod a game that I have installed.

UAC makes my computer 'hang' indefinatley when I attempt to activate certain .exe's. Microsoft security essentials has now joined this club by doing pretty much the same thing. To protect users they have taken almost all power away from users which is far worse in my opinion than getting the odd virus from time to time.

Show me a 'valid' solution to this and I will gladly use it!

Arakhor
Apr 10, 2010, 05:23 AM
Well, I simply never install games to Program Files. I'm only on XP, but I like my computer to be a sensible filing system and having all my games under a specific games folder makes perfect sense to me.

Afforess, for the "Flavour of the Week" option (with a U, naturally), I'd be interested in seeing what options are installed before going ahead with it. Is there any way of doing that to your satisfaction?

asekritov
Apr 10, 2010, 05:23 AM
Hello, everyone. I appreciate great work done by Afforess, but after installing 1.72 i've encountered a problem similar to traxantes's. After playing for some time game crashed with windows error, tried to reload from autosave, but it allways continue to crash every 2-3 turns. Tried install sp3, didn't helped. With 1.71 i had no such crashes and could play for several hours.
Only additional modmod i use is Aaranda's religions. (btw., why don't you add it to your pak?)

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

strategyonly
Apr 10, 2010, 05:53 AM
Got these two errors:

1. Got this when another civ tried to trade a worker.

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "BugUtil", line 695, in <lambda>

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 223, in handleAIComment

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 238, in dispatchEvent

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 194, in dispatch

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 486, in getProposedTrade

File "BugUtil", line 255, in debug

File "BugUtil", line 282, in log

File "TradeUtil", line 527, in __repr__

File "TradeUtil", line 542, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 544, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 680, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 594, in <lambda>

File "TradeUtil", line 634, in getTradeWorkers

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getDescription'
ERR: Python function beginDiplomacy failed, module CvDiplomacyInterface


2. Got this somehow, ?

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 429, in pediaJumpToTech

File "SevoPediaMain", line 285, in pediaJump

File "SevoPediaTech", line 88, in interfaceScreen

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getButton'

scribbler
Apr 10, 2010, 06:40 AM
@afforess: This is not typical behaviour for my pc, either playing Civ or doing anything else. I played ROM 2.9 for several hours without any ctd - the crashes only started with AND. I had experienced this sort of problem previously (usually with new versions of ROM and/or AND, though note, not with 2.9!), and things were eventually sorted with patches.
Re sp3 - no reason, I just haven't seen the need for it.
@scribbler: if I were a tech-savvy user (whatever is meant by that phrase) I might not see fit to post my ctd problems here. Do you have any useful advice to offer on my problems?

Ok, first with regards to your problem:

I've had the AI run your save over 200 turns without a hitch. Heck, your game works better than most of mine at that map size and speed. So the next step is to find out why your game is crashing.

Turn on logging as described here (http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/support_logging.htm) (2k Games site).

In your case the file _Civ4Config would be in J:\Games\Civilization IV\Beyond the Sword\. Remember that it's a shortcut, so it can be confusing (not that I was confused the first time I tried to find it, really... :rolleyes:).

Then, after the crash, look through the generated log file and find out what caused the problem/ran last.

Now, with regards to SP3, there are a number of security and stability issues which will not be addressed if you haven't upgraded, that were patched after SP3 came out. Since SP3 has been out for quite some time now, there's little reason not to upgrade unless you know one of your programs (or hardware for some reason) isn't compatible. Aside from that, really, the only reasons left for anyone not to upgrade would be because they are very afraid of losing data (in which case they should be backing things up anyway), or they are afraid that their copy of windows will become invalid (or is invalid) because of activation troubles (for whatever reason). If you think you have a hacked/cracked copy of Windows (and I've seen people have these sold to them, including a business where all their PCs were showing the non-genuine logo), you can usually pick up a copy cheap with a used computer (cheaper than buying new WinXP, and you get a backup/linux machine that you can use for NAS). MS is actually pretty good about changing your key to a good one after the fact, even though you shouldn't be doing so with OEM keys (it's not in the TOU, although in some places it's illegal for MS to stop you from doing so as it falls under fair use - check your local digital copyright protection laws if you want to be completely on the level). That will at least give you a valid working copy of windows so you can get all the upgrades.

:mischief: Is that more along the lines of what you were looking for yer highness? :king:

Jozef
Apr 10, 2010, 06:56 AM
Thank you for the explanations regarding stability issues of Service Pack 2 v. Service Pack 3, but I dont think that this is the problem here -

I updated the AND to patch A, but i still have CTD every several turns, and this never happen in previous versions of AND.

Toddy
Apr 10, 2010, 07:02 AM
Toddy, I have released 1.72 Patch A which will fix your CTD problem. ;)

Many thanks, glad it helped.

traxantes
Apr 10, 2010, 07:25 AM
@scribbler
OK, if there's an offer to look at the logs? Here they are. By the way, I'm not royalty, so normal form of person to person address is fine.

scribbler
Apr 10, 2010, 08:10 AM
Well if you can't do ANYTHING because UAC or security essentials says you can't then what other option do you have? I am the admin of my computer and only user however I am constantly bombarded by restriction notices when I try to do the simplest of tasks, such as mod a game that I have installed.

UAC makes my computer 'hang' indefinatley when I attempt to activate certain .exe's. Microsoft security essentials has now joined this club by doing pretty much the same thing. To protect users they have taken almost all power away from users which is far worse in my opinion than getting the odd virus from time to time.

Show me a 'valid' solution to this and I will gladly use it!

No, it's not far worse than getting the odd virus from time to time. Not when you realize what a virus can do. How do you think denial of service attacks are organized? Where do you think they get the machines to execute attacks like that? And who do you think can be held liable for damages? That's not to mention what can happen when your personal passwords are getting

BTW, modding for Civ IV is NOT a simple task. Maybe in Civ V it will be, but right now, because of the way it's all structured, there are certain security elements which were never meant to be used. Users should NOT be mucking about in any application directories. Unfortunately, we do, and the fact that we have to is bad programming on Firaxis' part. Their only excuse is that they were originally writing the game for XP, which did not have such stringent rules.

But given all that we don't live in a perfect world, we should deal with what we have as best we can. And to make modding possible for Civ IV without needing to run the game as an admin, just set the entire civilization directory for full access by the users group.

Well, before I go on, a note about UAC. UAC is a good tool when you're aware of it. When all you're ever doing is waiting for it to pop up just so you can click yes, then it's not working for you as it was designed to. It's like a buddy who asks you if you really want to drink that yellow liquid some stranger thrust into your hand at a party. Might be beer, might not. You get the idea. If you have a tendency to ignore your buddy, then by all means turn it off. But do not, for the love of jove, make everything run as admin.

Now, if you're being asked by the UAC for admin privileges for every program, something is very wrong with your install. Most likely is that you have a trojan/malware that isn't being detected by/knows how to spoof security essentials. This is rare but I've seen it. The Antivirus series of malware (think Antivirus 2010 is the latest), for instance, is pretty good at going undetected (at least parts of it are). There are also similar systems, not to mention rootkits which no AV software is all that good at.

You'll first want to check that your security settings are set up right. Sometimes folks which are only half aware of how things work set them wrong, like making the system need admin privileges to execute a file. Similarly, some malware might do this, although I've never run across anything like that.

If those turn out to be fine, try the following.


Make sure your firewall is working right.
Download and install Spybot S&D from safernetworking, download all updates, do a full scan. Clean.
Same with Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware.
If you've gotten rid of security essentials, download and install Avast Antivirus, do a full update then scan & clean. If you installed AVG, uninstall that first. Do note that Avast has more false-positives, but it doesn't ignore stuff like AVG often does.
If you're still having problems, download and run the MS malicious software removal tool with a full scan (very thorough, but also very slow)


If that doesn't solve it, and you have an actual problem (and the system isn't working as designed), you'll probably have to take it into a shop. Or use your solution. Just remember that it's not really a very good solution.

Mind you, this is all coming from a guy who used to run XP from SP0 to passed SP2 without any antivirus software, and never got a single virus (did do scans every so often, but stayed clean without active protection. Whether you can do the same depends on a large number of factors which I'm not going to get into. It's just safe to say that most people need AV software of some sort, though often people have AV software that goes out of date (not a problem with MSE), in which case they end up thinking they're protected when they're not.

xcrissxcrossx
Apr 10, 2010, 08:34 AM
I am having the same exact problem as traxantes and Josef. It only started when I installed AND 1.72. This is my first game using Ruthless AI but that is the only difference I have made.

scribbler
Apr 10, 2010, 08:57 AM
@scribbler
OK, if there's an offer to look at the logs? Here they are. By the way, I'm not royalty, so normal form of person to person address is fine.

Aww, you're gonna make me get off my high horse. :lol: And I like it up here!

Here's the only bit that sticks out for me. It's in PythonErr.log. Afforess would be better for figuring out what's happening here.


Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 987, in forceScreenRedraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 1441, in redraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 4874, in updateInfoPaneStrings

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenRedraw failed, module CvScreensInterface
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 971, in forceScreenUpdate

File "CvMainInterface", line 1324, in updateScreen

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenUpdate failed, module CvScreensInterface


I should mention that my own test run was in fact in 1.72. But since this is a problem folks are having since upgrading to 1.72, it seems that it should have the same effect. I'm also now running a shorter test game with the same quicksave under 1.72A. Should see if there's any difference.

Snofru1
Apr 10, 2010, 09:51 AM
If I play AND 1.72A in German then I donīt see the name of most (or even all?) buildings that are added by AND (ROM 2.91 buildings are doing fine). There are simply no names, not ingame and not in the civilopedia, although the translations do exist in the xml files. I see this e.g. with the Early Buildings (and many more).

Here my A New Dawn.log:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

Slammer64
Apr 10, 2010, 10:29 AM
Ok, is anyone else having this problem, I can't seem to find the National Science Foundation in the build queue even though I have the preq's for it? Log: Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72A

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows 7 Pro x64

JaeChunDaeSung
Apr 10, 2010, 10:54 AM
Runtime Error

R6025
-Pure virtual function call

RoM 2.91 New Dawn Custom Setup

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:05 PM
Okay guys, I'm getting overloaded with reports here. I've updated the OP with new guidelines and a link to see the status of support tickets. Yes, Support tickets. If you have a sourceforge account, you can post your own support tickets, and I recommend you do that for fastest support. If you don't want to create an account there, you can still post here, and I will open a ticket for you.

I've issued everyone with bugs tickets:

OK... the first post doesn't have any current bug reports, so here is one, which has completely stopped my game :(

In short, I beelined Super-sonic flight, so I could get the 'unlimited air transport' boon. With it, I was able to re-inforce my newly captured Iriquos settlement, and, more importantly, move my airforce to bear on the Incans.

It worked. As you can see now, there are around 30-ish planes (mostly bombers, but a few P59's, and a few Strategic bombers <3) hovering over Inca and Aztecs.

After vassalising the Incans in 1 turn (captured 3 cities in the turn I declared war), and the Aztecs in 2 (captured 3 cities, and then another one on the third turn, then accepted peace), I decided the 3 hour session was too long, and saved.

Re-loaded several hours later and... whats this? I cannot re-inforce my army!? I have been limited to a tiny region of rebasing and air-lifting!! Completing a turn does not work.

I do *NOT* have a working save of when I was able to rebase (Going back 1 turn in autosaves doesn't allow me to transport), so obviously the ability to traverse the world in air-lifts and rebase missions is NOT saved with the game. As proof, I provide the auto save of the turn before (Note: Strategic Bomber 4 of Lagash is in Lagash at this time), and the current turn (Note: Strategic Bomber 4 of Lagash is now in Vilcas, an Aztec settlement, on the other side of the world). The only way it could get there is from the boon from supersonic flight, but in the autosave, you CANNOT make that journey

Log file:

{Required Files} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} NIMBY ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Better RoM Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions}

Custom

Note: This is also probably an old-ish version (1.70), but I didn't notice anything in the changelogs, so it is still probably a current bug. And it is annoying having strategic bombers capable of attacking at a greater distance than they can re-base!!

I've issued a support ticket. (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985106&group_id=295810&atid=1248740) I will update you on resolution.

When I end the turn it stops all animation (music continues) and fails to react.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/o1jhkmyftmm/Ragnar%20AD-1419-July.CivBeyondSwordSave

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Farming {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization iv beyond the sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows (edit: Windows 7 Ultimate actually)

I've issued a support ticket (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985107&group_id=295810&atid=1248740), I will update you on resolution.

If this really is a bug, I don't know.

I've been playing A New Dawn for some time now, and it's just great. But I have run into somewhat of a mystery regarding sound.

There's no sound in the game besides in the CIV 4 introduction movie and in some of the wonder movies.

I have no sound problem at all, with other applications nor windows and nor when I start a new ordinary game of civ without RoM/A New Dawn. And I've tried to change sound settings both in game and in Windows with no luck.
So, I figure it's gotta be A New Dawn .

Please help, as I really like the music accompanier me while I play :)

Thanks in advance for any help.

- Ciffor

I've issued a support ticket (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985109&group_id=295810&atid=1248740), I will update you on resolution.

Got these two errors:

1. Got this when another civ tried to trade a worker.

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "BugUtil", line 695, in <lambda>

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 223, in handleAIComment

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 238, in dispatchEvent

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 194, in dispatch

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 486, in getProposedTrade

File "BugUtil", line 255, in debug

File "BugUtil", line 282, in log

File "TradeUtil", line 527, in __repr__

File "TradeUtil", line 542, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 544, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 680, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 594, in <lambda>

File "TradeUtil", line 634, in getTradeWorkers

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getDescription'
ERR: Python function beginDiplomacy failed, module CvDiplomacyInterface


2. Got this somehow, ?

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 429, in pediaJumpToTech

File "SevoPediaMain", line 285, in pediaJump

File "SevoPediaTech", line 88, in interfaceScreen

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getButton'

I've issued a support ticket (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985110&group_id=295810&atid=1248740), I will update you on resolution.

If I play AND 1.72A in German then I donīt see the name of most (or even all?) buildings that are added by AND (ROM 2.91 buildings are doing fine). There are simply no names, not ingame and not in the civilopedia, although the translations do exist in the xml files. I see this e.g. with the Early Buildings (and many more).

Here my A New Dawn.log:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

I've issued a support ticket (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985111&group_id=295810&atid=1248740), I will update you on resolution.

Ok, is anyone else having this problem, I can't seem to find the National Science Foundation in the build queue even though I have the preq's for it? Log: Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72A

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows 7 Pro x64

I've issued a support ticket (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985112&group_id=295810&atid=1248740), I will update you on resolution.

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:20 PM
s that more along the lines of what you were looking for yer highness? :king:

Tone it down a notch, these are people.


Another thing you could do that is helpful is that when people post bug reports in this thread to add them to the bug tracker, if they are not already there. Thanks for the effort in stemming the tide while I was away. ;)

Aww, you're gonna make me get off my high horse. :lol: And I like it up here!

Here's the only bit that sticks out for me. It's in PythonErr.log. Afforess would be better for figuring out what's happening here.


Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 987, in forceScreenRedraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 1441, in redraw

File "CvMainInterface", line 4874, in updateInfoPaneStrings

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenRedraw failed, module CvScreensInterface
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 971, in forceScreenUpdate

File "CvMainInterface", line 1324, in updateScreen

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function forceScreenUpdate failed, module CvScreensInterface


I should mention that my own test run was in fact in 1.72. But since this is a problem folks are having since upgrading to 1.72, it seems that it should have the same effect. I'm also now running a shorter test game with the same quicksave under 1.72A. Should see if there's any difference.

I am having the same exact problem as traxantes and Josef. It only started when I installed AND 1.72. This is my first game using Ruthless AI but that is the only difference I have made.

@Everyone with constant crashing issues, could you please read this thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9086924) ;)

Runtime Error

R6025
-Pure virtual function call

RoM 2.91 New Dawn Custom Setup

Where/when did you get that error?

arcozelo
Apr 10, 2010, 12:53 PM
First off, congratulations on all the hard work. I've played this game since the ancient era and it only crashed some 3-4 times, most likely from hardware issues. That's rock solid for what I have come to expect from civ4.

1. Reloading an autosave while you are playing seems to hang civ4, when said save is large enough (as this one is). I recall having read somewhere that this is a common problem so I'm just asking if there is supposed to be a solution for this. This also happens if I quit to the main menu first and then reload.

2. The bug: I'm not sure if it happens immediately in the next turn as it did when I played, but there seems to be one or more "Barbarian Pirate Corvettes" lurking between 2 of my cities in the right. These ships appear to be for all purposes invisible, since there is no place nearby where they could hide, and I scouted with sub-spotting ships just in case and didn't find them. They also appear to be either invincible or have some unusual STR, since by the name I would put them on the level of privateers (STR 17) and one of them took out one battlecruiser (STR 48 or so) with full health. I say there might be more than one because the turn after this autosave some 3 or 4 of my submerged towns get pillaged in the same turn. This game was being played with a compiled version of rev 96, so I'm not sure if it is feasible to use the save to check it out since we are way past rev 96. Also I noticed there doesn't seem to be a pedia entry for pirate corvettes

EDIT : added a ticket in the tracker

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 12:56 PM
First off, congratulations on all the hard work. I've played this game since the ancient era and it only crashed some 3-4 times, most likely from hardware issues. That's rock solid for what I have come to expect from civ4.

1. Reloading an autosave while you are playing seems to hang civ4, when said save is large enough (as this one is). I recall having read somewhere that this is a common problem so I'm just asking if there is supposed to be a solution for this. This also happens if I quit to the main menu first and then reload.

I've heard it explained that this is because the game you are currently in is still in memory while loading the save, so the combined memory usage from the autosave and current game overload the computer. Not much I can do, this is controlled by the EXE.


2. The bug: I'm not sure if it happens immediately in the next turn as it did when I played, but there seems to be one or more "Barbarian Pirate Corvettes" lurking between 2 of my cities in the right. These ships appear to be for all purposes invisible, since there is no place nearby where they could hide, and I scouted with sub-spotting ships just in case and didn't find them. They also appear to be either invincible or have some unusual STR, since by the name I would put them on the level of privateers (STR 17) and one of them took out one battlecruiser (STR 48 or so) with full health. I say there might be more than one because the turn after this autosave some 3 or 4 of my submerged towns get pillaged in the same turn. This game was being played with a compiled version of rev 96, so I'm not sure if it is feasible to use the save to check it out since we are way past rev 96. Also I noticed there doesn't seem to be a pedia entry for pirate corvettes

EDIT : added a ticket in the tracker

Thanks, I will look into it.

arcozelo
Apr 10, 2010, 01:07 PM
I'm also not very smart and completely forgot to add this:

{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Deep-Red Interface} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Better RoM Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} Research

Custom

Sinapus
Apr 10, 2010, 04:22 PM
Put this under the "I'm not sure this is a bug, but..." low priority list:

I gave a few units the "Mountaineer" promotion and had them exploring. Noticed an oddity. When a unit with this promotion is on a Peak, units without the promotion can move onto that Peak, and the unit can be attacked. At least barbarian units or units from another Civ can. Will try to see if I can get a unit without the promotion from my own civilization in the same area and see if they can move too.

Actually, if this is a bug, maybe it should be left in. ;)

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 04:30 PM
Put this under the "I'm not sure this is a bug, but..." low priority list:

I gave a few units the "Mountaineer" promotion and had them exploring. Noticed an oddity. When a unit with this promotion is on a Peak, units without the promotion can move onto that Peak, and the unit can be attacked. At least barbarian units or units from another Civ can. Will try to see if I can get a unit without the promotion from my own civilization in the same area and see if they can move too.

Actually, if this is a bug, maybe it should be left in. ;)

With just 1 unit with the promotion, all units should be able to move onto the peak. However, I suspect you are right, and I forgot to check that the other units were part of your team. I'm almost ready with Patch B... hang on a few more minutes. I need to include this. ;)

Slammer64
Apr 10, 2010, 04:36 PM
My apologies Afforess, I didn't know you had enabled the bug tracker on SourceForge, I'll post there from now on.

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 04:41 PM
My apologies Afforess, I didn't know you had enabled the bug tracker on SourceForge, I'll post there from now on.

Actually, I created it just today; 3 pages of bug reports overnight is a bit overwhelming. ;)

Retrospect
Apr 10, 2010, 04:44 PM
No, it's not far worse than getting the odd virus from time to time. Not when you realize what a virus can do. How do you think denial of service attacks are organized? Where do you think they get the machines to execute attacks like that? And who do you think can be held liable for damages? That's not to mention what can happen when your personal passwords are getting

BTW, modding for Civ IV is NOT a simple task. Maybe in Civ V it will be, but right now, because of the way it's all structured, there are certain security elements which were never meant to be used. Users should NOT be mucking about in any application directories. Unfortunately, we do, and the fact that we have to is bad programming on Firaxis' part. Their only excuse is that they were originally writing the game for XP, which did not have such stringent rules.

But given all that we don't live in a perfect world, we should deal with what we have as best we can. And to make modding possible for Civ IV without needing to run the game as an admin, just set the entire civilization directory for full access by the users group.

Well, before I go on, a note about UAC. UAC is a good tool when you're aware of it. When all you're ever doing is waiting for it to pop up just so you can click yes, then it's not working for you as it was designed to. It's like a buddy who asks you if you really want to drink that yellow liquid some stranger thrust into your hand at a party. Might be beer, might not. You get the idea. If you have a tendency to ignore your buddy, then by all means turn it off. But do not, for the love of jove, make everything run as admin.

Now, if you're being asked by the UAC for admin privileges for every program, something is very wrong with your install. Most likely is that you have a trojan/malware that isn't being detected by/knows how to spoof security essentials. This is rare but I've seen it. The Antivirus series of malware (think Antivirus 2010 is the latest), for instance, is pretty good at going undetected (at least parts of it are). There are also similar systems, not to mention rootkits which no AV software is all that good at.

You'll first want to check that your security settings are set up right. Sometimes folks which are only half aware of how things work set them wrong, like making the system need admin privileges to execute a file. Similarly, some malware might do this, although I've never run across anything like that.

If those turn out to be fine, try the following.


Make sure your firewall is working right.
Download and install Spybot S&D from safernetworking, download all updates, do a full scan. Clean.
Same with Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware.
If you've gotten rid of security essentials, download and install Avast Antivirus, do a full update then scan & clean. If you installed AVG, uninstall that first. Do note that Avast has more false-positives, but it doesn't ignore stuff like AVG often does.
If you're still having problems, download and run the MS malicious software removal tool with a full scan (very thorough, but also very slow)


If that doesn't solve it, and you have an actual problem (and the system isn't working as designed), you'll probably have to take it into a shop. Or use your solution. Just remember that it's not really a very good solution.

Mind you, this is all coming from a guy who used to run XP from SP0 to passed SP2 without any antivirus software, and never got a single virus (did do scans every so often, but stayed clean without active protection. Whether you can do the same depends on a large number of factors which I'm not going to get into. It's just safe to say that most people need AV software of some sort, though often people have AV software that goes out of date (not a problem with MSE), in which case they end up thinking they're protected when they're not.

Well I personally feel that having a computer that will do nothing that you want it to do is the same as not having one at all.

I haven't just dropped off the last bus by the way so I would appreciate it if you were a little less patronising. I was trying to help someone out who had encountered similar problems to me.

Your solutions to my problems do not encourage me to turn UAC back on as i do not believe it is functioning correctly even on the lowest security setting.

As for essentails I run the real time protection untill I need to install something or watch a video then I turn it off during that time.

These problems have existed since I installed windows 7 so i'm afraid you cannot convince me that the root of it is a Trojan.

Afforess
Apr 10, 2010, 04:56 PM
Well I personally feel that having a computer that will do nothing that you want it to do is the same as not having one at all.

I haven't just dropped off the last bus by the way so I would appreciate it if you were a little less patronising. I was trying to help someone out who had encountered similar problems to me.

Your solutions to my problems do not encourage me to turn UAC back on as i do not believe it is functioning correctly even on the lowest security setting.

As for essentails I run the real time protection untill I need to install something or watch a video then I turn it off during that time.

These problems have existed since I installed windows 7 so i'm afraid you cannot convince me that the root of it is a Trojan.

Take it elsewhere, please. I already told Scribbler to tone it down, nothing further needs to be said.

Justin Cray
Apr 10, 2010, 05:13 PM
thanks for all your work afforess, now I go and try to reproduce my bug :)

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 10, 2010, 06:36 PM
Um... are the files for the "National Slave Auction" national wonder supposed to be spelled like:

National_Slave_Acution_Civ4

?

This is a problem when all the mods get put into one mod - I only saw this today:(.
Putting the name of the mod before the default name of the file is the modding standard. It has no effect in game since all the XML files in the folder are loaded no mater what they are actually called. Mind you it took me three tries before I saw anything wrong with the name.

Slammer64
Apr 10, 2010, 07:03 PM
Agreed Afforess 3 pages is a bit.................much, after all, never, ever pi** off........err, upset the bartender!

Retrospect
Apr 11, 2010, 03:24 AM
Take it elsewhere, please. I already told Scribbler to tone it down, nothing further needs to be said.

Your wish is my command ;)

Flay
Apr 11, 2010, 04:59 AM
Hello

I thought I should give it a try on one MP game:
First thing strange, some leaders have no name.
Than in game some building have no name.

Ok this is because the game is set to french, but why can't we get in english insteed of nothing what as not been translate yet, like it was before?

didn't try much but it seems like the OOS at str is gone . . .
will update later

Justin Cray
Apr 11, 2010, 08:52 AM
feedback:

Public Pool can be built in the middle ages and costs as much as some of the wonders you can build then (234 Hammers on Quick, more than three times of a castle!), shouldn't it be a fraction of that?

JaeChunDaeSung
Apr 11, 2010, 10:51 AM
I wouldn't know how to identify the problem, but once I saved at this point on, the game freezes when the turn ends, and gets nowhere. I have to use Task Manager to get out, because the game doesn't crash, so I'll assume it's freezing.

{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Coal UI} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

arcozelo
Apr 11, 2010, 02:01 PM
I've been digging the files on my "invisible pirate corvettes issue", and I almost surely have found the cause for it: In the XML for the events there is an event called "Pirates of the Neutral Zones", which I am given to understand invokes something in the python folder. Looking at \Assets\Python\EntryPoints\CvRandomEventInterface. py, I get this:
def applyPiratesoftheNeutralZones1(argsList):
(...)
iUnitType1 = CvUtil.findInfoTypeNum(gc.getUnitInfo, gc.getNumUnitInfos(), 'UNIT_STEALTH_DESTROYER')
(...)
loopUnit.setName("Pirate Corvette")


Looking at the unit list XML I see Stealth Destroyers have invisible_stealth instead of invisible_submarine property, which would in fact make them invisible to my own destroyers in the neighbourhood, or anything else I was ready to throw at them. Also, they would far outclass all the ships they sunk (privateer and industrial era ship against stealth&robotics age unit). I had both tech prereqs for this event (had outdated ships in my game because I never would have thought this kind of event existed, I mean - pirates with stealth destroyers... wtf?). The unit name "Pirate Corvette" also checks out according to my game log, so this is actually a non issue, except for the fact that I'm not sure I got a event window informing me of this event - but that might be a feature... they are stealth ships after all.... and also you might wanna rename the names the units get when generated... like add a "stealth" or "you're screwed" prefix in there somewhere.
I would in passing like to ask a question out of curiosity - if one my ships gets into a plot occupied only by stealth units I'm at war with (like barbarian stealth :):):):)ing destroyers), the stealth units remain unattacked as if they weren't even there, right?

Afforess
Apr 11, 2010, 03:21 PM
I would in passing like to ask a question out of curiosity - if one my ships gets into a plot occupied only by stealth units I'm at war with (like barbarian stealth :):):):)ing destroyers), the stealth units remain unattacked as if they weren't even there, right?

I have no idea. You can find out by messing with subs in the worldbuilder, but I've never considered something like that.

Slammer64
Apr 11, 2010, 03:51 PM
Afforess, just a question, has upgrading units been changed at all, I just noticed that I can't seem to upgrade units built from captured barbarian cities? If it hasn't I'll turn a ticket in on SourceForge.

digitCruncher
Apr 11, 2010, 03:51 PM
Yes, it is just the same as if you moved it onto a tile with a spy ... no combat occurs.

(This is the sole reason I believe Civ IV is miles ahead of Civ III ... previously, combat would occur, and in Civ III, you would ALSO declare war!!)

Using a unit which can spot the unit (like a destroyer for a sub) will initiate combat as normal ... you cannot peacefully move onto the tile.

NBAfan
Apr 11, 2010, 04:40 PM
Afforess, just a question, has upgrading units been changed at all, I just noticed that I can't seem to upgrade units built from captured barbarian cities? If it hasn't I'll turn a ticket in on SourceForge.If you are using the Assimilation mod, it only lets you upgrade when that Civ can.

Slammer64
Apr 11, 2010, 05:02 PM
Ok, thanks NBAfan, I am using it. But I didn't know Barbarian civ's could upgrade. I went and captured a Barb city, took it over and started building units, these won't upgrade , correct?

fireclaw722
Apr 11, 2010, 05:20 PM
If you are using the Assimilation mod, it only lets you upgrade when that Civ can.

But when I capture a Ethiopian city and they are very far behind in techs, but I could still upgrade my Riflemans to Infantry(Even though the Ethiopians were still using Musketmen[They didn't have the Semi-Automatic Guns Tech]).

NBAfan
Apr 11, 2010, 05:22 PM
But when I capture a Ethiopian city and they are very far behind in techs, but I could still upgrade my Riflemans to Infantry(Even though the Ethiopians were still using Musketmen[They didn't have the Semi-Automatic Guns Tech]).Maybe it only happens with Barbs.

arcozelo
Apr 11, 2010, 05:41 PM
I'm trying hard to find more bugs, but this is the best I've come up with so far:

Civilopedia entry on GCs state they initially start with a Command Range of zero, which was true when they first were introduced, but now they start with CR 1, so you might want to add that update to the TODO list. Also, is there a way to pick which GC offers the bonus to a given unit if 2 GCs command ranges overlap? Last time I played the game seemed to chose the one which had level up most recently.

Any news on the fog of war issue?

Cykur
Apr 11, 2010, 05:45 PM
Found something interesting with Unique Units -- not necessarily a bug, per se. I am playing a 1.72 game as the Vikings. I don't have Assimiliation turned on, but I notice when I capture cities, they are tagged with their original Civ on the World Map. I am building Light Swordsmen in my Viking city. I notice that I can't build them in the Roman cities, I can only build warriors there, I assume because Romans would be building Praetorian if I had Assimiliation turned on. To confirm this, I see that I can build Light Swordsmen in non-Roman cities.

Not a show stopper by any means, but I figured I would mention it in case it is not intended. Since the game plays like this, it might be wise to turn Assimilation on. (I always assumed this was a bit overpowered to be able to make anyone's UU after you conquer them, so I don't use it normally.)

Unrelated Feedback:

The Fisherman's Hut probably shouldn't require Fish, Clam, Shrimp, etc. to give its +1 food water tile bonus. The Hut is taking the place of the lighthouse now in boosting food for water tiles, so it doesn't make sense that you would have to import fish/seafood from somewhere to get the bonus of harvesting food in all your nation's water tiles with the Fisherman's Hut. One assumes there are some fish providing food in the water tiles, just not the luxury high density fish of the seafood resource locations.

Fish Traps seem to have the same problem, but I am not positive how they are working in 1.72 since I don't have "Fish" yet in my 1.72 game. I can see they still require Fish to unlock when they are pretty much geared to give a small local bonus for having Fish, Clam, or Pearls.


Otherwise, 1.72 is completely stable from what I have seen so far!

NBAfan
Apr 11, 2010, 05:54 PM
Found something interesting with Unique Units -- not necessarily a bug, per se. I am playing a 1.72 game as the Vikings. I don't have Assimiliation turned on, but I notice when I capture cities, they are tagged with their original Civ on the World Map. I am building Light Swordsmen in my Viking city. I notice that I can't build them in the Roman cities, I can only build warriors there, I assume because Romans would be building Praetorian if I had Assimiliation turned on. To confirm this, I see that I can build Light Swordsmen in non-Roman cities.

Not a show stopper by any means, but I figured I would mention it in case it is not intended. Since the game plays like this, it might be wise to turn Assimilation on. (I always assumed this was a bit overpowered to be able to make anyone's UU after you conquer them, so I don't use it normally.)

Unrelated Feedback:

The Fisherman's Hut probably shouldn't require Fish, Clam, Shrimp, etc. to give its +1 food water tile bonus. The Hut is taking the place of the lighthouse now in boosting food for water tiles, so it doesn't make sense that you would have to import fish/seafood from somewhere to get the bonus of harvesting food in all your nation's water tiles with the Fisherman's Hut. One assumes there are some fish providing food in the water tiles, just not the luxury high density fish of the seafood resource locations.

Fish Traps seem to have the same problem, but I am not positive how they are working in 1.72 since I don't have "Fish" yet in my 1.72 game. I can see they still require Fish to unlock when they are pretty much geared to give a small local bonus for having Fish, Clam, or Pearls.


Otherwise, 1.72 is completely stable from what I have seen so far!Are your Romen cites conected to Iron?

Cykur
Apr 11, 2010, 05:56 PM
Are your Romen cites conected to Iron?

All my cities have iron, yes.

Hydromancerx
Apr 12, 2010, 01:42 AM
Fish Traps seem to have the same problem, but I am not positive how they are working in 1.72 since I don't have "Fish" yet in my 1.72 game. I can see they still require Fish to unlock when they are pretty much geared to give a small local bonus for having Fish, Clam, or Pearls.


What good is having a fish trap without fish?

Cykur
Apr 12, 2010, 02:07 AM
What good is having a fish trap without fish?

That is exactly my point, it is NO GOOD to have a Fish Trap without fish, because you can't build the Fish Trap building, even to harvest Pearls. The problem isn't the bonuses on the Fish Trap building, it is that you might have to trade for Fish resource to unlock the building. You should be able to make buildings like the Fish Trap to take advantage of a local resource, not because you are trading for Fish with the Chinese.

Jozef
Apr 12, 2010, 04:37 AM
I am sorry to say, but version 1.72 is NOT stable! It crashes every several turns, although I patched to patch A, and patch B, and restarted the game several and several times. I even deleted the whole Rom directory and reinstalled it and A New Down from the beginning.

Even so, the game continues to crash every several turns, starting from Classic Age.
And please do not tell me that its because of my system/computer/windows/political situation in Israel -
Crashes never occurred in previous versions of A New Dawn.

Here A New Down info:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Standard

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Attached save file. Within several turns (more or less) after it the game crashes.

I hope someone fix this issue before I commit suicide.

Alorente
Apr 12, 2010, 04:49 AM
I am sorry to say, but version 1.72 is NOT stable! It crashes every several turns, although I patched to patch A, and patch B, and restarted the game several and several times. I even deleted the whole Rom directory and reinstalled it and A New Down from the beginning.

Even so, the game continues to crash every several turns, starting from Classic Age.
And please do not tell me that its because of my system/computer/windows/political situation in Israel -
Crashes never occurred in previous versions of A New Dawn.

Here A New Down info:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Sports {Civic Buildings} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites}

Install Type:
Standard

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
WinXP

Attached save file. Within several turns (more or less) after it the game crashes.

I hope someone fix this issue before I commit suicide.


I am playing my second game with 1.72 without the slightest problem. I have Windows 7. Did you install AND after the ROM 2.91 patch?

If it was a problem with 1.72 version, it would be widespread.

Jozef
Apr 12, 2010, 05:14 AM
Yes, I installed 2.91 Rom, and only after that AND 1.72, patched to A, and B/

Cykur
Apr 12, 2010, 05:22 AM
I am sorry to say, but version 1.72 is NOT stable! It crashes every several turns, although I patched to patch A, and patch B, and restarted the game several and several times. I even deleted the whole Rom directory and reinstalled it and A New Down from the beginning.

Even so, the game continues to crash every several turns, starting from Classic Age.
And please do not tell me that its because of my system/computer/windows/political situation in Israel -
Crashes never occurred in previous versions of A New Dawn.



AND appears to completely stable right now, though it could be a problem in a module you are using that I'm not. If the game plays fine for a while, then starts crashing when the world reaches a certain stage of development, it might be a memory problem. XP can only handle 2GB at a time by default, even if your computer has more RAM.

When I was playing Civ IV on XP I edited the boot.ini to use 3GB of RAM to take advantage of the extra RAM my system had. I also didn't use the Mega Civ pack because of the memory requirements all the extra leaderheads made on the system. Heck, I still don't use the Mega Civ pack now that I have Windows 7. Another thing you can do to check memory is alt TAB out of Civ IV and bring up the task manager to check under performance to see if the memory commitment is getting too big for the amount of RAM you have available.

Also, is there an error message when it crashes? Or is it just dropping you to desktop? That would probably help Afforess identify the problem.

Hope it gets solved.

ssgts
Apr 12, 2010, 06:35 AM
Afforess, i think i find the clue causes game freeze, after i built the field hospital, the game got freeze, then i deleted it by WB, the game worked again, you can test it by my saved game, it's the turn that the freeze occurred, the name of the city is Nineveh, it located in the middle east. The picture is my RevDCM Setting.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Sea Monsters} {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Misc Buildings} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows

Game version: ROM 2.91 + AND1.72B

Jozef
Apr 12, 2010, 07:53 AM
AND appears to completely stable right now, though it could be a problem in a module you are using that I'm not. If the game plays fine for a while, then starts crashing when the world reaches a certain stage of development, it might be a memory problem. XP can only handle 2GB at a time by default, even if your computer has more RAM...


Also, is there an error message when it crashes? Or is it just dropping you to desktop? That would probably help Afforess identify the problem.

Hope it gets solved.


I have only 2Gb, hence i don't install Megapack, and also I use the following usually "unloaded" modules of ROM (those modules are in ROM/Assetes/Unloaded Modules directory, you have to move it to Modules directory, as explained in ROM readme:
1.) NoBuildingGrafics
2.) Static Leadersheads

And no, i do not have error message, only the game crash down to desktop.
The problem is that on the earlier versions of AND that didn't happen even in the Modern ages (but I agree that game becomes slower in modern ages, but no crashes occurred).

Regarding DCM options - standard options, and also the Archer bombard and Bombard Missions.

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 08:09 AM
Jozef & ssgts,

Thanks for the reports, I've opened tickets, and will look at your saves later this evening.

Azazell
Apr 12, 2010, 08:27 AM
Afforess Hello! :)

I Have a problem with 1.72B. I first installed RoM 2.9 --> 2.91 --> AND 1.72 and try install 1.72B. During installation this patch is error

Please look my picture -->
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5598/65202730.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/65202730.jpg/)

How to fix this problem? Sorry for ma bad english :)

Justin Cray
Apr 12, 2010, 08:30 AM
hah the field hospital, I just checked and I can build it without being at war wich might point to the origin of the crashing/hanging games

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 08:35 AM
@ Azazell,

I think the installer breaks when the directories start exceeding the character limit built in windows. Try installing it to a folder on the desktop, then manually merging the files over.

Azazell
Apr 12, 2010, 08:43 AM
@ Azazell,

I think the installer breaks when the directories start exceeding the character limit built in windows. Try installing it to a folder on the desktop, then manually merging the files over.

Thank you very much :)!

DRJ
Apr 12, 2010, 09:28 AM
Playing 1.72B, I encountered some problems depending the trade mechanics of units: the AI pays way too much for one galley/2 catapults etc, while the human player gets the units very cheap if he wants to buy them from AI (one sold contact to an other nation provided me with 2 galleys)...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249318&stc=1&d=1271086096
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249319&stc=1&d=1271086096

Furthermore, the automatic promotion system is messed up, I think - after I built 10 chariots, promoted them to withdraw 1 and fought some fights, 2 remained and gained the "lead by noble" promotion. After a while I had 100% withdrawal chance. I then promoted them to "combat 2" and "dedication" (multiple attacks) very soon after - as they never lost a fight, withdrawing most of the time. They stacked xp like hell and now have 450 xp and all promotions... seems broken to me...

Last but not least there are still some fog of war covered tiles in my territory. And since 1.70 I get frequent CTDs again :/ Thought they were a thing of the past... :(

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
I'll check out the AI and Military units.

As for the promotions, I agree there is a balancing issue. I'm opening a better RoM thread on it.

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 01:28 PM
Jozef, I can't load your save. Are you playing with any other RoM modmod's, other than AND, or some personal modifications?

JosEPh_II
Apr 12, 2010, 04:03 PM
Played 1.72b last night up to ~150 AD. Played fine no problems encountered.

Until I went to "Exit to Desktop". Game froze.

Do Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out and this Windows msg was there when the game screen closed:\

Runtime Error!
Program:...........\CIV4BeyondSword.exe

R6025
-Pure Virtual function call

I haven't tried to start it up yet tonight. And like I said it played fine for close to 3 hours. Just didn't like it when I went to leave.

If you need logs and/or Save let me know.

JosEPh

Jozef
Apr 12, 2010, 05:41 PM
Jozef, I can't load your save. Are you playing with any other RoM modmod's, other than AND, or some personal modifications?

No, as i am aware... Well, i placed static leaders head and nobuilding graffics from ROM directory, in order to save more memory, but that's it...

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 05:47 PM
No, as i am aware... Well, i placed static leaders head and nobuilding graffics from ROM directory, in order to save more memory, but that's it...

That's what I needed to know. Thanks.

NBAfan
Apr 12, 2010, 06:04 PM
I have played 520 turns in a Marathon game and so far no problems.

Hydromancerx
Apr 12, 2010, 06:14 PM
Sorry for the dumb question but its been awhile. Where do I find the log files again?

os79
Apr 12, 2010, 06:16 PM
Sorry for the dumb question but its been awhile. Where do I find the log files again?

Pythons errors? My Doc/My Games/BtS/Logs, I think.

New Dawn installation? RoM main directory with a notepad or notepad++

AndarielHalo
Apr 12, 2010, 06:18 PM
My game is freezing around the exact same time I had complained about earlier.

I had included custom leaderheads from RoM2.8, without pack files. ALL of their names are already in the RoM AND mod folder's XML loadup -and- enabled (though they don't appear in game without them being added)! When can I start modding up AND, or is it just a problem affecting these specific leaderheads, and if so, why? There's nothing in them that should cause problems with the games, anymore than any other custom leaderhead added.

Hydromancerx
Apr 12, 2010, 06:24 PM
Pythons errors? My Doc/My Games/BtS/Logs, I think.

New Dawn installation? RoM main directory with a notepad or notepad++

Thank you. Ok here are the log file after I have had a repeating CTD no matter what I do. Seems like it will crash every 5 turns no matter if I re0start from auto log.

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Ideology Civics} Meteorology {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} Zoology Firestorm Arctic {Larger Cities} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} Education Sports NIMBY {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Domestic Withdraw Depletion Farming Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Warriors of God} {Improved Artwork} {Water Mod} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} Transportation {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} Research Wilderness {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics, + Misc Building v2 and Garbage Civics

RoM v2.91
AND v1.72B

digitCruncher
Apr 12, 2010, 07:54 PM
Here is a (possibly) repeatable bug with trading workers. But I have no idea what could possibly cause it.

To repeat:

Open Autosave. As it is an autosave, you get to see Franco's lovely face straight up. Accept his demands of Mathematics, and then ask to trade one of his workers for Polytheism. You should get the worker

Next, move the stack in Monties territory one tile NW (onto the cottage / hills). This causes a CtD

In addition, NOT trading the worker seems to stop the CtD.

I repeated those steps above twice, and got CtD's twice at the same time.

Log files:

Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {War Prizes} Arctic {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Event Images} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Deep-Red Interface} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Battlefield Promotions} Health {Better Air Interception} {Trading Posts} {Spy Satellites} Tactics

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Vista

Darken24
Apr 12, 2010, 09:47 PM
not so much a bug as much as a minor annoyance
i'm playing with flexible difficlty and ruthless ai on and currently diff is up to diety even still about every 4th or 5th turn i get people asking to be my vassel somehow i don't feel thats right for such a high diff + ruthless also the ai isn't actually being very ruthless as i have yet to have one break a deal or declare war any other bad thing with me and i'm just about into the renassance era on the other hand they won't trade me techs unless you count ancient era techs for medievals which seem about right for diety/ruthless.

also there only happens to be one super strong nation about 3 times my strength and 1.5 times my size while the rest are half my strength and 1/3 or less my size not sure if thats normal or not for a diety game with revs on

Afforess
Apr 12, 2010, 10:01 PM
not so much a bug as much as a minor annoyance
i'm playing with flexible difficlty and ruthless ai on and currently diff is up to diety even still about every 4th or 5th turn i get people asking to be my vassel somehow i don't feel thats right for such a high diff + ruthless also the ai isn't actually being very ruthless as i have yet to have one break a deal or declare war any other bad thing with me and i'm just about into the renassance era on the other hand they won't trade me techs unless you count ancient era techs for medievals which seem about right for diety/ruthless.

also there only happens to be one super strong nation about 3 times my strength and 1.5 times my size while the rest are half my strength and 1/3 or less my size not sure if thats normal or not for a diety game with revs on

The last paragraph indicates the AI is actually working correctly. We've documented the new behavior with the AI, it's quite interesting. See this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=360611

Darken24
Apr 13, 2010, 10:47 AM
ok just wasn't sure if the requests for them to be my vassel as that thread had never mentioned anything like that

Retrospect
Apr 13, 2010, 02:13 PM
Just ran through about 1/3 of a game on marathon gigantic map and had no CTD's at all and the balancing looks to have been ironed out loads since 1.55.

I am however playing with depletion mod enabled and think that the mine/resource depletion seems pretty spot on. But I did have a source of corn that depleted and as far as I am aware thats not supposed to happen.

Talin2009
Apr 13, 2010, 02:20 PM
with useable mountains option turned off AI (my vassal, far behind in techs) researches Mountaneering (btw, i couldn't find it myself in tech tree, but in civipedia it was saying i need 2 turns)

PastorBob
Apr 13, 2010, 02:44 PM
Using 3.19 BTS, with 2.91 ROM 3.10 ROME and 1.72 AND. Always receive a C++ runtime error during the INIT Graphics phase of map loading. This does not happen if I choose a lite installation or if I leave AND off completely. I looked for the LOG but maybe I dont know where to find it. No save available, b/c I cant even get into the game right now. Any ideas?

Dancing Hoskuld
Apr 13, 2010, 02:53 PM
Using 3.19 BTS, with 2.91 ROM 3.10 ROME and 1.72 AND. Always receive a C++ runtime error during the INIT Graphics phase of map loading. This does not happen if I choose a lite installation or if I leave AND off completely. I looked for the LOG but maybe I dont know where to find it. No save available, b/c I cant even get into the game right now. Any ideas?

One thing I found worked when RoM+ would crash to desktop during CiV start up was to defragment my hard disk. It is the least messy first choice. ;)

ravenone
Apr 13, 2010, 03:02 PM
I reinstalled ROM w/ current patch and then AND 1.72 with Patch B. no other mods installed. I started a new game, played for a few hours. Went to load a save and it crashes every time. Attached is a save file that crashes.

Alorente
Apr 13, 2010, 03:20 PM
Is this a bug:

I founded Judaism. Built the Temple of Solomon. Converted to Judaism. The Rabbi icon shows up. I queue several up OK, but the next turn it tells me I cannot build the Rabbis and removes them all from the queue. It's happened several times in the last 2 games. I have several cities without Judaism. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what.

Greeneyedzombie
Apr 13, 2010, 04:10 PM
The arcology buildings are super sized. Any Ideas how to fix those? I tried changing it in the artdifines-xml. but that didnt work.

soup567
Apr 13, 2010, 04:19 PM
Model: HP G60 Notebook PC
Processor: AMD Turion-Dual Core RM-70 2.00GHz
RAM: 3.00 GB
System Type: 32-bit

So basically this is my problem. I'm on a huge earth map, and as America I, discovered the "Old World" from the "New World", and I traded contacts so I would know every civ (all 39). So I'm on the 2nd turn into that and whenever I end the turn and it starts the 3rd, a bunch of civs want to talk to me. First Russia, then England, then India, then a memory allocation failure or what ever it's called. This happens every time. My save is 1,590 kb big.

Please help!

scribbler
Apr 13, 2010, 04:37 PM
Is this a bug:

I founded Judaism. Built the Temple of Solomon. Converted to Judaism. The Rabbi icon shows up. I queue several up OK, but the next turn it tells me I cannot build the Rabbis and removes them all from the queue. It's happened several times in the last 2 games. I have several cities without Judaism. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what.

This is a change that was made to national units. Afforess intended it this way at one point, possibly to increase the speed of the city screen (my WAG). If you're playing a version between 1.70 and 1.72, then this is working as intended. It's been changed back since to work as in the original game.

scribbler
Apr 13, 2010, 04:41 PM
Model: HP G60 Notebook PC
Processor: AMD Turion-Dual Core RM-70 2.00GHz
RAM: 3.00 GB
System Type: 32-bit

So basically this is my problem. I'm on a huge earth map, and as America I, discovered the "Old World" from the "New World", and I traded contacts so I would know every civ (all 39). So I'm on the 2nd turn into that and whenever I end the turn and it starts the 3rd, a bunch of civs want to talk to me. First Russia, then England, then India, then a memory allocation failure or what ever it's called. This happens every time. My save is 1,590 kb big.

Please help!

Sounds like too many civs for your computer. Don't know the exact numbers, but I personally try to never play with more than 15 civs, both for speed and memory issues. Try a game on a smaller map with fewer civs. Not everyone can play this game at max :(

soup567
Apr 13, 2010, 04:56 PM
Sounds like too many civs for your computer. Don't know the exact numbers, but I personally try to never play with more than 15 civs, both for speed and memory issues. Try a game on a smaller map with fewer civs. Not everyone can play this game at max :(

What specks should my computer have to play with 50 civs, on a gigantic map, with a custom install of AND, and AAranda's religions? I'm going to get an MX11 in july or august, so I could upgrade the ram as such.

EDIT: I like playing with as many civs as possible. it's more of a challenge. and i always have to play at least on a huge map, becuase i can't stand any smaller ones.

Sinapus
Apr 14, 2010, 12:26 AM
Played 1.72b last night up to ~150 AD. Played fine no problems encountered.

Until I went to "Exit to Desktop". Game froze.

Do Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out and this Windows msg was there when the game screen closed:\

Runtime Error!
Program:...........\CIV4BeyondSword.exe

R6025
-Pure Virtual function call

I haven't tried to start it up yet tonight. And like I said it played fine for close to 3 hours. Just didn't like it when I went to leave.

If you need logs and/or Save let me know.

JosEPh

I've had something like that happen on other BTS mods. I always exit to the main menu, then exit to desktop to avoid it.

Hydromancerx
Apr 14, 2010, 02:06 AM
@Afforess

No CTD however the Domestic Animal mod doesn't load. Apparently it has the loading command in the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the "Afforess" folder but didn't install it into the Afforess folder. It loads it into the "Hydro" folder but the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the Hydro folder doesn't list it.

To solve this manually you can move the Domestic_Animals folder from the Hydro folder to the Afforess folder OR add the code below to the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the "Hydro" folder.

<Module>
<Directory>Domesticated_Animals</Directory>
<bLoad>1</bLoad>
</Module>

Alorente
Apr 14, 2010, 04:07 AM
What specks should my computer have to play with 50 civs, on a gigantic map, with a custom install of AND, and AAranda's religions? I'm going to get an MX11 in july or august, so I could upgrade the ram as such.

EDIT: I like playing with as many civs as possible. it's more of a challenge. and i always have to play at least on a huge map, becuase i can't stand any smaller ones.

Wow! I agree, it would be wonderful to play on a huge map and 50 civs, however, the computer you need for that has not been made yet. At least without putting up with a ton of lag and veeery slow turns. I have a top of the line Alienware with 6 megs of Ram and SLI Nvidia graphics card and I play on standard map with 8 civs for minimal lag and about 15 to 20 second turns. When I play on large map and 30 civs I get 3 second lag on the city screen per building and about 45 second turns around the 1800's on marathon speed. That's too much for me.

Alorente
Apr 14, 2010, 04:23 AM
2 changes that I believe would improve gameplay:

I think the peace treaty number of turns should scale with game speed like everything else. 10 turns in standard speed is fine, but 10 turns in marathon speed is a drop in the bucket.

We should be able to build windmills in ocean squares as in real life.

strategyonly
Apr 14, 2010, 04:33 AM
taken care of thx.


Traceback (most recent call last):

File "BugUtil", line 695, in <lambda>

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 233, in handleUserResponse

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 238, in dispatchEvent

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 194, in dispatch

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 486, in getProposedTrade

File "BugUtil", line 255, in debug

File "BugUtil", line 282, in log

File "TradeUtil", line 527, in __repr__

File "TradeUtil", line 542, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 544, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 680, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 594, in <lambda>

File "TradeUtil", line 634, in getTradeWorkers

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getDescription'
ERR: Python function handleUserResponse failed, module CvDiplomacyInterface

Hydromancerx
Apr 14, 2010, 06:17 AM
@Afforess

The tweak you did to the water mod doesn't make sense. You made the Artesian Well replace the reservoir. However the reservoir doesn't appear until much later in the tech tree. the Artesian Well is enabled by invention while the reservoir is enabled by steam power. I suggest you change the artesian well to replace the cistern instead of the reservoir. Because the cistern is enabled by canal systems. Which is an earlier tech.

ssgts
Apr 14, 2010, 06:24 AM
Afforess, Field Hospital freezing seems caused by the definition "<bPrereqWar>1</bPrereqWar>" I assumed that the AI could not understand it, after i deleted this definition, the freezing no longer exists.

Afforess
Apr 14, 2010, 06:26 AM
@Afforess

No CTD however the Domestic Animal mod doesn't load. Apparently it has the loading command in the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the "Afforess" folder but didn't install it into the Afforess folder. It loads it into the "Hydro" folder but the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the Hydro folder doesn't list it.

To solve this manually you can move the Domestic_Animals folder from the Hydro folder to the Afforess folder OR add the code below to the MLF_CIV4ModularLoadingControls in the "Hydro" folder.

<Module>
<Directory>Domesticated_Animals</Directory>
<bLoad>1</bLoad>
</Module>

Sure, I can do that.

2 changes that I believe would improve gameplay:

I think the peace treaty number of turns should scale with game speed like everything else. 10 turns in standard speed is fine, but 10 turns in marathon speed is a drop in the bucket.

We should be able to build windmills in ocean squares as in real life.

I agree with the first one, but you might want to start a thread for ocean improvements.

I still get this error but you have it as fixed?

Submitted:

Afforess ( afforess ) - 2010-04-10 17:53:24 UTC
Priority:

4
Status:

Closed
Resolution:

Fixed
Assigned:

Afforess
Category:

Python Errors
Group:

1.72
Visibility:

Public


:


Traceback (most recent call last):

File "BugUtil", line 695, in <lambda>

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 233, in handleUserResponse

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 238, in dispatchEvent

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 194, in dispatch

File "DiplomacyUtil", line 486, in getProposedTrade

File "BugUtil", line 255, in debug

File "BugUtil", line 282, in log

File "TradeUtil", line 527, in __repr__

File "TradeUtil", line 542, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 544, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 680, in format

File "TradeUtil", line 594, in <lambda>

File "TradeUtil", line 634, in getTradeWorkers

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getDescription'
ERR: Python function handleUserResponse failed, module CvDiplomacyInterface

Try the latest beta.

@Afforess

The tweak you did to the water mod doesn't make sense. You made the Artesian Well replace the reservoir. However the reservoir doesn't appear until much later in the tech tree. the Artesian Well is enabled by invention while the reservoir is enabled by steam power. I suggest you change the artesian well to replace the cistern instead of the reservoir. Because the cistern is enabled by canal systems. Which is an earlier tech.

I don't recall making that change, however, I will update it for you.

Cykur
Apr 14, 2010, 08:27 AM
There is a bug where your empire suddenly doesn't have access to a resource even though you still have access to it on the map. I have seen this bug before with earlier versions of AND where it affected Stone and Marble. In a current game I now have the problem with Iron. I have at least 2 Iron resources in my empire, non depleted, and at the beginning of this turn my empire reports as having no Iron and all my Swordsmen had to stop being built. I had never seen this problem before resource depletion, though I can't be certain they are related.




Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Better Air Interception} Wilderness

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows




Attached are the saved game and the previous autosave.

One possible issue, in the current game I'm playing, I had removed the resource requirements on the Fisherman's Hut and Fish Traps buildings. I had also removed the Poacher building because I was sick of looking at it. Everything else is standard AND 1.72 patch B. I don't think these changes will affect loading my saved games.

soup567
Apr 14, 2010, 01:20 PM
Wow! I agree, it would be wonderful to play on a huge map and 50 civs, however, the computer you need for that has not been made yet. At least without putting up with a ton of lag and veeery slow turns. I have a top of the line Alienware with 6 megs of Ram and SLI Nvidia graphics card and I play on standard map with 8 civs for minimal lag and about 15 to 20 second turns. When I play on large map and 30 civs I get 3 second lag on the city screen per building and about 45 second turns around the 1800's on marathon speed. That's too much for me.

I don't know why rom/and seems to take up so much ram. games that i think that would take up more ram like MW2 and Mass Effect 2 (though I play both on the 360) seem to take up less then rom/and with max civs, largest map sizes, custom installs, and other modmods. I know that is a lot, but MW2 has higher graphic specs, and also looks like there's more going on.

I wish that someone could just code rom/and in a different way, so that it runs a lot faster.

NBAfan
Apr 14, 2010, 01:29 PM
The problem is the Civ 4 engine is really outdated and inefficient.:(

Afforess
Apr 14, 2010, 01:29 PM
I don't know why rom/and seems to take up so much ram. games that i think that would take up more ram like MW2 and Mass Effect 2 (though I play both on the 360) seem to take up less then rom/and with max civs, largest map sizes, custom installs, and other modmods. I know that is a lot, but MW2 has higher graphic specs, and also looks like there's more going on.

I wish that someone could just code rom/and in a different way, so that it runs a lot faster.

It's using a 2003 engine of GameByro, which is a lot less efficient that modern games.

soup567
Apr 14, 2010, 01:32 PM
It's using a 2003 engine of GameByro, which is a lot less efficient that modern games.

So when Civ 5 comes out, it will presumably have the latest engine? And if it does it would be awesome if there could be a full convert of RoM/AND to it.

Cykur
Apr 14, 2010, 01:34 PM
I don't know why rom/and seems to take up so much ram. games that i think that would take up more ram like MW2 and Mass Effect 2 (though I play both on the 360) seem to take up less then rom/and with max civs, largest map sizes, custom installs, and other modmods. I know that is a lot, but MW2 has higher graphic specs, and also looks like there's more going on.

I wish that someone could just code rom/and in a different way, so that it runs a lot faster.

The problem isn't with RoM and AND, it is with the Civ IV engine. AND actually IS coded to run much faster. I love playing the Fall From Heaven 2 modmod Rise from Erebus, but it is painful to me how slow it runs compared to AND. By their nature, RoM and AND are stuffing tons and tons of content and functionality into the game, so it kinda makes sense that it isn't going to run as fast. If you want to play a ginormous map with 50 civs and all the AND modules, you are going to have a slow game, or crap out with memory problems unless you have a really powerful system with lots of memory.

aender
Apr 14, 2010, 01:36 PM
its the memory allocation problems that civ4 has that needs to be addressed with civ5........even railroads has a similiar problem...seems everything fireaxis did this decade has had a problem so if thats fixed the rest will come

soup567
Apr 14, 2010, 01:40 PM
Is it possible for modders to change the civ 4 engine so it runs better? or can we just bribe firaxis to do it?

NBAfan
Apr 14, 2010, 02:03 PM
Is it possible for modders to change the civ 4 engine so it runs better? or can we just bribe firaxis to do it?It is possible but would be an epic project to say the least.;) Just wait for Civ 5 RoM.

soup567
Apr 14, 2010, 02:21 PM
It is possible but would be an epic project to say the least.;) Just wait for Civ 5 RoM.

But, thats all the way in the fall!!!! I want my gigantic map with 50 civs now!!!!:cry:

NBAfan
Apr 14, 2010, 05:14 PM
If you thought Monty was bad, you should see him with ruthless AI. He is one :):):):) B... well you get the idea. I decided to go into WB and get a peek. There was 5 other civs on the continent that are dead!:eek: I am America. I guess it is time to take down Spain.
The end will be interesting. This is on prince.

xcrissxcrossx
Apr 14, 2010, 07:33 PM
If you thought Monty was bad, you should see him with ruthless AI. He is one :):):):) B... well you get the idea. I decided to go into WB and get a peek. There was 5 other civs on the continent that are dead!:eek: I am America. I guess it is time to take down Spain.
The end will be interesting. This is on prince.

I've never seen anything like that. I'm definitely trying out ruthless AI.

os79
Apr 14, 2010, 07:47 PM
If you thought Monty was bad, you should see him with ruthless AI. He is one :):):):) B... well you get the idea. I decided to go into WB and get a peek. There was 5 other civs on the continent that are dead!:eek: I am America. I guess it is time to take down Spain.
The end will be interesting. This is on prince.

In the end, there can be ONLY ONE! :cues in lightning storm:

:lol:

AndarielHalo
Apr 14, 2010, 09:26 PM
I'm getting error message involving the Hydro/Science Science buildings info, with the line <TechCommerceChanges>

Afforess
Apr 14, 2010, 09:34 PM
I'm getting error message involving the Hydro/Science Science buildings info, with the line <TechCommerceChanges>

Screenshot or more detailed info, please?

AndarielHalo
Apr 14, 2010, 10:23 PM
Screenshot or more detailed info, please?



Failed Loading XML file
modules\Hydro\Science\Science_CIV4BuildingInfos.xm l.
[.\FXml.cpp:133] Error parsing XML File -
File:
modules\Hydro\Science\Science_CIV4BuildingInfos.xm l
Reason: The element 'TechCommerceChanges'
is used but not declared in the DTD/Schema

Line: 152, 25
Source:
<TechCommerceChanges>

Afforess
Apr 14, 2010, 10:29 PM
Download this folder (http://anewdawn.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/anewdawn/Trunk/A%20New%20Dawn%20Assets/Modules/Hydro/Science.tar.gz?view=tar), and replace the current Science folder in Hydro's mods with this one. Does the error still persist?

AndarielHalo
Apr 14, 2010, 11:02 PM
Yes, error persists

Afforess
Apr 14, 2010, 11:10 PM
What version of AND are you using?

civ_king
Apr 14, 2010, 11:18 PM
What specks should my computer have to play with 50 civs, on a gigantic map, with a custom install of AND, and AAranda's religions? I'm going to get an MX11 in july or august, so I could upgrade the ram as such.

EDIT: I like playing with as many civs as possible. it's more of a challenge. and i always have to play at least on a huge map, becuase i can't stand any smaller ones.
Sweet, what specs?
So when Civ 5 comes out, it will presumably have the latest engine? And if it does it would be awesome if there could be a full convert of RoM/AND to it.
In a moment of brilliance they created their own game engine meaning a whole lot more will be available
Is it possible for modders to change the civ 4 engine so it runs better? or can we just bribe firaxis to do it?
it is impossible, a lot of problems are in the EXE
It is possible but would be an epic project to say the least.;) Just wait for Civ 5 RoM.

It will come bundle with the Duke Nukem expansion

edders05
Apr 15, 2010, 04:01 AM
Hi,
Really enjoying the mod but I've noticed one odd crash - I was messing around with the unit placer (you know, the control-shift-click debug one) and noticed that it crashes the game - it doesn't shut down, just freezes completely and has to be shut down via task manager. The odd thing is that this is not a problem early in the game, but appears fairly quickly, before AD.

If someone could point me to the logs I;ll be happy to post what's needed...

CMKMStephens
Apr 15, 2010, 05:59 AM
Two things, don't know if they've been mentioned:

- Game freezes, as in, you press enter and it just freezes, no spinning globe. This is on only a large map with 8 civs and just beginning the industrial era. I haven't been able to get past the uploaded save. Reloading a few turns back, and it freezes at the same date. This is latest versions of ROM + AND. Default settings + ideology, zoo, nimby, domestic, farming, water, transport, misc, towers.

- The AI stepping in to ask you to make peace can bypass vassalage, you can be at peace with the vassal and at war with the master.

strategyonly
Apr 15, 2010, 07:35 AM
Just an observance, i noticed that between 1.70 and 1.73beta there has been a drastic addon of in-between turns wait. It used to be like 15 sec and now its getting between 30-45 per turn and i am only on classic era, with 15 civs on a 150X75 map, (i used to play this map back then also).

Also i have not added anything to the beta as far as religions/units/modcomps anything, just imagine if i did that the way i used to?

ravenone
Apr 15, 2010, 09:41 AM
I reinstalled ROM w/ current patch and then AND 1.72 with Patch B. no other mods installed. I started a new game, played for a few hours. Went to load a save and it crashes every time. Attached is a save file that crashes.

Afforess,

any word on this? I did a 2nd game and initially the saves would load fine, but later in the game (around when I was researching Feudalism) the saves stopped working.

Attached here is another save that also crashes right after it loads the graphics.

AndarielHalo
Apr 15, 2010, 09:43 AM
- Game freezes, as in, you press enter and it just freezes, no spinning globe. This is on only a large map with 8 civs and just beginning the industrial era. I haven't been able to get past the uploaded save. Reloading a few turns back, and it freezes at the same date. This is latest versions of ROM + AND. Default settings + ideology, zoo, nimby, domestic, farming, water, transport, misc, towers.




That's literally the exact same problem me and a bunch of other people have been having with previous versions as described in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=360868


At least when it happens to me, it's still Renaissance Age, just a turn or two or so until the Industrial Age

Cykur
Apr 15, 2010, 09:57 AM
There is a bug where your empire suddenly doesn't have access to a resource even though you still have access to it on the map. I have seen this bug before with earlier versions of AND where it affected Stone and Marble. In a current game I now have the problem with Iron. I have at least 2 Iron resources in my empire, non depleted, and at the beginning of this turn my empire reports as having no Iron and all my Swordsmen had to stop being built. I had never seen this problem before resource depletion, though I can't be certain they are related.




Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} {Realistic Diplomacy} {Seafaring } {Resource Refinement} {War Prizes} {Espionage Process} Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming {Lead From Behind} {Civic Buildings} {No Storms} {Early Buildings} ANM {Historical Wonders} Formations {Mega Civ Patch} {Better RoM} Withdraw Depletion Guilds {Modern Corporations} {Blue Marble Terrain} {Improved Artwork} {Airbase Range} {Civic Diplomacy} {Better Air Interception} Wilderness

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.72

Install Directory:
C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind

Windows Version:
Windows




Attached are the saved game and the previous autosave.

One possible issue, in the current game I'm playing, I had removed the resource requirements on the Fisherman's Hut and Fish Traps buildings. I had also removed the Poacher building because I was sick of looking at it. Everything else is standard AND 1.72 patch B. I don't think these changes will affect loading my saved games.

Has no one else ever seen this bug where one of your resources suddenly shows as having 0 available instead of the amount you possess? This is the third time I've seen it. If it is just me, I'll just turn resource depletion off and move on and see if it happens again, but I figure someone else must have seen it.

Afforess
Apr 15, 2010, 11:25 AM
Guys, I've pretty much abandoned the official release, it's too buggy. The beta is stable from all reports, and bug-free. Please use that instead.

AndarielHalo
Apr 15, 2010, 01:51 PM
What official release? 2.91 RoM? Or 1.72 AND?

Arakhor
Apr 15, 2010, 01:54 PM
Use 1.73 beta, NOT 1.72.

Talin2009
Apr 15, 2010, 02:32 PM
donno, running 1.72b not single crash so far. im 1835 BC tho ...

aender
Apr 15, 2010, 02:42 PM
ya i'm currently running 1.72b and no problems yet........in the renaissance(spelling) atm tho and looks like the probs are near end of this era beginning of industrial so we'll see....
on a side not looks like any city can build a guild once the hall was built..dont like this... every turn every city is asking to build em but i alrdy got the 3 i'm using in this game in every city so maybe change it bk to needing the hall to build

NBAfan
Apr 15, 2010, 02:59 PM
donno, running 1.72b not single crash so far. im 1835 BC tho ...I am at 1750 and no problems.

os79
Apr 15, 2010, 03:54 PM
I did not get any CTDs myself either. I just stopped because the newer beta games have cooler horizons for me to go to :lol:. I suspect a certain number of modmod(s) included in AND conflicted terribly with the newer Better AI beta merged into SDK. So Afforess just went to the root of the problem for some people with problems. I'm very confident he will figure out what went wrong later :).

civ_king
Apr 15, 2010, 05:53 PM
I'm on 1.70 here, should I go to Beta?

Hydromancerx
Apr 15, 2010, 08:11 PM
I'm on 1.70 here, should I go to Beta?

Yeah the newest beta has no crashes for me so far. I highly recommend the 1.73 beta. :goodjob:

civ_king
Apr 15, 2010, 08:54 PM
Yeah the newest beta has no crashes for me so far. I highly recommend the 1.73 beta. :goodjob:

no crashes here except from RAM

NBAfan
Apr 15, 2010, 09:11 PM
I am playing 1.72 with Advanced Diplomacy off and I still have the fog of war bug. It can't be Advanced Diplomacy then.

CMKMStephens
Apr 15, 2010, 09:23 PM
I suppose the latest beta is incompatible with 1.72. I was particularly enjoying my recent game.

NBAfan
Apr 15, 2010, 09:41 PM
I have noticed the fog of war bug seems to happen after a city is razed.

Talin2009
Apr 16, 2010, 01:43 AM
Suggestion about calculating power rating:

Why computer doesn't take into account promotions/exp amount when sorting out relative army strengths?

Army of 5 units with 100-120 exp each isn't equal to army freshly out of barracks - it will shred it in pieces. I'm currently playing Korea, have relatively small (numbers wise) army but they all have lots of promotions and tear apart any army coming close to my cities, yet i have 0.1-0.3 power rating to npcs and they keep wardeccing me :(

Also, diplomacy wise - after i kill 5-8 units of enemy he's "willing to negotiate" but when asked what is the price for peace keeps refusing me (i don't have any techs or gold to offer in trade), and it doesn't matter that i already killed like 50 of their units ... Something needs to be fixed here i think.

DRJ
Apr 16, 2010, 04:31 AM
Suggestion about calculating power rating:

Why computer doesn't take into account promotions/exp amount when sorting out relative army strengths?

Army of 5 units with 100-120 exp each isn't equal to army freshly out of barracks - it will shred it in pieces. I'm currently playing Korea, have relatively small (numbers wise) army but they all have lots of promotions and tear apart any army coming close to my cities, yet i have 0.1-0.3 power rating to npcs and they keep wardeccing me :(

Also, diplomacy wise - after i kill 5-8 units of enemy he's "willing to negotiate" but when asked what is the price for peace keeps refusing me (i don't have any techs or gold to offer in trade), and it doesn't matter that i already killed like 50 of their units ... Something needs to be fixed here i think.


I can confirm your experiences. I always hoped that the promotions my elite units have would be taken in the calculation. Meaning a strength 4 unit with +100% strength would be calculated as a strength 8 unit. That way the AI would be a little bit more careful when going to war maybe.
But after all, AI will use numbers, humans will use tactics.
My strategy is usually to have a number of frontline cities with 3 garrison troops in them. My stack of defense (which usually is my stack of offense, too) is stationed in between all possible attacking points and can be moved to all of them equally fast (arragend by their level of importance, though). That way, if a 30-stack comes - and my intuition tells me it will come - I normally manage to get at least 10 elite defenders there in time, and even if I lose 2-3 during the attack, the lack of a great (30 something) army on my side means the lack of great maintance for it, too, concluding that this hypothetical money is better invested in a higher science rate, leading to stronger defenders earlier on.
It's sometimes a risky strategy though, especially in the beginning of the game when you have no roads but only car paths and a barb civ spawn close to you... But even losing a small city for some turns (and the buildings in it) is not that bad - as, until then, you usually have the losses back in (5 garrison instead of 3 means -2 :gold:/turn)