This is an idea I had that's similar to the Demogame, with one exception. A group of people play 1 civ against another group of people. Since the MP pool will probably be small, the first game may have to stick to a small world with a few civs. Influence will also be based on land-ownership.

The idea is a succession game - demogame hybrid. A few months ago, there were a couple of "shadow games", (which I'm not too familar with, but I think I have the idea of) - sort of like a paralell team game. This time, each team will have 1 civ to play.

Basic Rules: (I'm no Shaitan when it comes to rules, :p but here's the basic layout). Remember, we're starting with a small pool of players.

Each team consists of the advisors: Domestic, Foriegn Affairs, Millitary, Science, Trade, and Culture - and their deputies.

Unlike the demogame where citizens make the decisions, the decision making is up to the advisors.

The advisors are the designated players. Play will go in a round robin fashion (i.e., Domestic plays, then FA, Military and so on).

----

Team Play

Most likely, this would be PBEM. Each team that finishes passes it on to the next.

The team play will be in a list, which lists the order in which each team plays. (i.e., team 1 goes first, then team 4 might be able to play, then team 2, then 3).

The non-playing time would be spent deciding further moves/negotiations in that team's thread.

---

Team Thread

Each team will have a thread for gameplay issues, and negotiating with other team members.

Since we don't have leveled accesses for thread, we will have to trust that other team members aren't spying in other threads.

---

Citizens

Citizens can ally with one team, then elect people to be advisors at the end of each month.

Citizens can't make decisions, but can petition in the respected team thread (but do not spam!)

Citizens can also own land, which gives them more influence. Each citizen can get 1 tile at the start of the game, and work that tile. (more info later).


Anyone have any other ideas?

*Coughs*We're having something like that over at 'Poly, only with each team having it's own secure forum*Uncough*

Great idea! The only potential problem I see is security. ;) It would be just too easy to go and look at someone else's thread. Maybe TF can work something out with that? :p

I like the idea of a Republic game better than Democratic because Democracies don't scale well with size. If an advisor isn't doing the will of the people boot him.

I think the pool will be bigger than you think.

Originally posted by Trip
*Coughs*We're having something like that over at 'Poly, only with each team having it's own secure forum*Uncough*

Great idea! The only potential problem I see is security. ;) It would be just too easy to go and look at someone else's thread. Maybe TF can work something out with that? :p

SPY!!! :p

Well, I don't think TF is going to be adding any new subforums soon... The Civ3 section is already hog-wild with sub and sub-subforums...

Clan forums are not impossible. ;) vBbulletin 3.0 will come with a password protected forum feature and I probably can create some password protected forums for clans.

One problem though: Your clan will be in trouble if your clan has a traitor and he leaked the forum password to other people.

Well, I don't think TF is going to be adding any new subforums soon... The Civ3 section is already hog-wild with sub and sub-subforums...
We'll see. :)

Originally posted by Thunderfall
Clan forums are not impossible. ;) vBbulletin 3.0 will come with a password protected forum feature and I probably can create some password protected forums for clans.

One problem though: Your clan will be in trouble if your clan has a traitor and he leaked the forum password to other people.


True, then there would be just one thing to do if a traitor is caught. Similuate the real world. ;) (permban by IP as a deterant and a change of passwords in this case...)

But, this brings about a new flavor to the game: The Art of Espionage.

I can envision a possible scenario:

There's 7 clans (provinces) in the game, allied as 3 "civs".
I'll use civ names as provinces for ease of use, and provincal names from the 1st Demogame.
Babylon, Egypt and Rome are allied as "Istar"
Greece and France are allied as "Asphinxia"
India and China are allied as "Nouva Terra"

espionage

1. DL (double logon) - not allow in the first place (and risky). Someone could "infiltrate" another team. Say Nouva Terra was having problems with Istar. Someone (or a group of people) from say, the China province could logon, and eventually work their way into the government of say, Rome, and have Rome break away from Istar and join Nouva Terra. Or, the person could place propoganda, or be a double agent.

2. Password hacking - Probably the most common attempt at spying. Get the forum password, and no one will know (except maybe TF - if that person makes a couple of wrong guesses and a message is sent to TF...). Hopefully, individual accounts aren't hacked, which would be bad. In both cases, password changes would be in order.

3 - Defeat and revival - If your team is in a province that's destroyed (and you don't respawn - is that possible for the human player?), then there's bound to be those that split to the opposiing 'civ', and give key info.

Hmm.. I wonder if threads can be password protected... (though, that might put a load on the server...)

If there is like a "Co-op" option in the game, where 2 or more people control a team, then we can have like a confederation-based game as each province makes its own decisions. I'm sure that will come with future patches, and maube even in a revolution a province can break away and become its own country, like in some civ2 games, IIRC from reading about it. That can make the game really good.

On Topic:
I'll join this republic game as soon as i get PTW and a computer it can be played on.

Originally posted by Civanator
On Topic:
I'll join this republic game as soon as i get PTW and a computer it can be played on.

I would like to join also....but would it be si-move/turnless or classic?

Probably classic so there's no timezone issues. Also, many players can be in 1 team (but not multiple teams). Each team is its' own civ, or province. When multiple provinces join, it becomes a nation (city-states).

I think once this gets underway, it would be named: "Game of Republic - City States". I have a more Greecian-theme in mind.. (thus the city states). In fact, games can be played on real-world maps (we would choose a country, or region).

okay, but what civ would we be?

I liked this idea in the first place, and will go ahead and sign up.

*signs up*

Count me in!

Does each team get to design its own system of Gov't?

why? will you be communism ;)
Oh yeah, count me in also!

Originally posted by WildFire444
why? will you be communism ;)
Oh yeah, count me in also!

I wouldn't have much to go on, considering the only applied forms have been bloated bureaucracies :D.

Personally, I consider it an economic form...

No, I meant as to how the constitution et al would be set up...

I would be very interested in this.

Originally posted by WildFire444
okay, but what civ would we be?

You can pick any civ you want. Of course, with a randomized start location, you can't tell who you're going to start next to.

Originally posted by Toasty
Count me in!

Does each team get to design its own system of Gov't?


That's a good idea. Even though it's the "Game of Republic", some teams (civs) could go in as rouge nations (in a free-for-all style). That would be good for those elite players here. :)

what about my idea?

Originally posted by Civanator
If there is like a "Co-op" option in the game, where 2 or more people control a team, then we can have like a confederation-based game as each province makes its own decisions. I'm sure that will come with future patches, and maube even in a revolution a province can break away and become its own country, like in some civ2 games, IIRC from reading about it. That can make the game really good.

On Topic:
I'll join this republic game as soon as i get PTW and a computer it can be played on.

That's part of the fun. :) You're your own independant civ, except that you can be a province of a larger "confederation" of civs. (one hug civ). So, if you grow rather large, you might feel like breaking away, and causing a civil war.

Count me in too :D

Chieftess -

Do I understand this correctly, several players each have their own civ but co-operate with each other as a "confederacy"?

Against another confederacy?

Remember that you can only play with 8 Civs in MP no matter the world map size.

So does each player controll their own civ?

seems like fun to me. Cud have 2 militaristic and 1 scientific and wala WAR eheh seems like thats my answer to everything in this game I wonder y the AI is allways annoyed, furious etc with me??:confused:

Originally posted by joespaniel
Chieftess -

Do I understand this correctly, several players each have their own civ but co-operate with each other as a "confederacy"?

Against another confederacy?

Yes, here's an example: (say, after everyone meets each other, and creates confederations)

Confederation 1: CFC Hawks

Teams: (team leader)
joespaniel: England
Civanator: France
Toasty: Aztecs

Confederation 2: Nordic Allience

Teams: (team leader)
Grey Fox: Scandanavians
SilverBlade: Germans

Confederation 3: Gem Traders

Teams: (team leader)
Trip: Mongols
Warpstorm: Spanish
WildFire444: Zulus

And it's even possible to break away from your allience, and join another. BTW, if Firaxis ever increases that limit (say, for turnbased/PBEM), you'd have even more! (though, it would go slowly).

And, think about it, you could team up with civs using different traits.

One team could pick:
Americans for their expansionist/industrious trait, and an endgame UU.
Babylonians for Scientific/Religous (culture, and main tech researcher).
Rome for Militaristic/Commercial (share their wealth, and a good early UU combo with Babylon).

And, techs will fly at a faster rate. With 3 teamed up, they can trade their current techs, and then research 3 independant techs. One researches mathematics for catapults, another takes the monarchy track, and another heads for literature, then trades the techs to their allies (confederation/provinces)

Alright, I'm in. This sounds like a GREAT idea; the demogame isn't really for me, but I like this, it seems much more personal/interesting.

One problem: I might not have PTW by the release date, so if my turn comes and I'm not up, skip me.

CG

OK, so it will be like 3 civs forming an alliance? and the civs will be called "provinces." Sounds more like the game of confederacy than republic. But it is a good idea.

Well, I never really heard of 'confederacy' used before.. :) I'm not a political science major, so I don't know all the government types. ;) (nor did my schooling ever teach about different government types...)

Originally posted by Chieftess


Yes, here's an example: (say, after everyone meets each other, and creates confederations)

Confederation 1: CFC Hawks

Teams: (team leader)
joespaniel: England
Civanator: France
Toasty: Aztecs

Confederation 2: Nordic Allience

Teams: (team leader)
Grey Fox: Scandanavians
SilverBlade: Germans

Confederation 3: Gem Traders

Teams: (team leader)
Trip: Mongols
Warpstorm: Spanish
WildFire444: Zulus

And it's even possible to break away from your allience, and join another. BTW, if Firaxis ever increases that limit (say, for turnbased/PBEM), you'd have even more! (though, it would go slowly).

Umm... you forgot me. I woulld like to be under Confederation #1 :).

Originally posted by Chieftess
Well, I never really heard of 'confederacy' used before.. :) I'm not a political science major, so I don't know all the government types. ;) (nor did my schooling ever teach about different government types...)

A cofederacy is a loose union of states bound together by one central govt, kind of like what the EU is trying to do, so its not exactly the right term for this.

This is more like axis & allies, or just plain team MP. I like the "Republic Game" title, so please dont change it. ;) :D

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Sort of like city-states, which can ally with eachother and form a nation.

I know its just an example Chieftess but there is no way that i am ever going to be the Zulu because i hate them and they hate me ;)

This all sounds fascinating... Perhaps we should get Shaitan in here and tell him to write up a few pages of rules :D

Pfah! Rules shmules! ;)

I pity the fools that end up on the two-man team though, against two teams of three. That could be a problem. :(

I recommend 4 teams of 2 players, or 2 teams of 4 players, for balance. :)

Just a thought.

A confederation is when the Central government has limited power and the "states" or "provinces" have almost all of the power.

@joespaniel- maybe have 1 team with 2 very strong people and 2 teams of 3 moderate people.

Originally posted by Civanator

@joespaniel- maybe have 1 team with 2 very strong people and 2 teams of 3 moderate people. How could we know who are better? By checking who can win on the hardest levels? Even that might be poor check on who is best in MP. As the SP game is much about knowing the AI weaknesses and behavior. Those won't be as easy in MP, each Human player will act slictly differently then the next, and each will use tactics you maybe didn't expect. Without playing some games before starting this, that is somewhat impossible.

dang, i never though of that...... you got me there.

I think teams should be drawn randomly, because the number of players will always differ. Things don't always need to be perfectly fair ;).

Originally posted by Octavian X
This all sounds fascinating... Perhaps we should get Shaitan in here and tell him to write up a few pages of rules :D

A "few" pages...??? NOOOOOOOO!!!!! :aargh: :p

only a "few" how about a "couple". ;)

I mean, what would a sprout of the democracy game be without a full fledged constitution, Code of Laws, and Code of Standards? :mwaha:

Back to hammering out the details...

When would we actually start playing this game of the republic? Because i will probably have the game tomorrow or Thursday. Or are we going to wait until mid november so that people in Europe or around there can sign up for the republic game. Of course, the people who will get the game sooner than those can start a mini republic game where we split into teams and play a 'quick' game. Just a possibility

I would agree on waiting untill Mid-November. In my opinion It would give people time to purchase and play the game.

Wow! this sounds great! I'm interested...

Originally posted by CivGeneral
I would agree on waiting untill Mid-November. In my opinion It would give people time to purchase and play the game.

Unfortunately for another part of the world we are looking at the second half of November:(

Will these games be totally private or will there be some way (either by a common public thread or visitor rights) that someone not involved can check out what is happening.... he says while waiting for that containership to get here ;) ....

count me in

Originally posted by Phillip_martin


Unfortunately for another part of the world we are looking at the second half of November:(

Will these games be totally private or will there be some way (either by a common public thread or visitor rights) that someone not involved can check out what is happening.... he says while waiting for that containership to get here ;) ....

We would probably wait to see how the first few games go. Also, there will be team threads, and a "UN Thread", where all the diplomacy takes place. I know that there will be access levels for forums/subforums in vBulliten 3.0, but I'm not so sure about threads.

Diplomacy could be handled 2 ways. First, the representative of the confederation (both teams/provinces in nation would elect a representative) would post deals in the UN thread. (it's possible that we could use a chatroom for that).

The 2nd way is within the teams. I think these should be private (a.k.a., secret) - whether it's by email or chat.

Ok, since MP seems buggy, it looks like this would be a PBEM game for now. What's everyone else's say on this?

Originally posted by Chieftess
Ok, since MP seems buggy, it looks like this would be a PBEM game for now. What's everyone else's say on this?

That would probably be smart, at least until they can work up another patch.

I am still in. :)

Still in............*cough* PERSIA *cough* ;)

Sounds like fun, count me in too... when I get the blasted thing.

May also need to consider a random draw for teams(as suggested already) and a random draw for Civs. If not a random draw in the sense of picking a civ and assinging it, a draw for who gets to pick their civ first. B/c I'm sure lots of people will want Persia or Rome, and few people will want England or America.

y do so many ppl like persia?

Originally posted by Sgt.Hellfish
y do so many ppl like persia?
One word: Immortals.

:ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

yeah, basically ;)

And i really like the industrious/science combo

I think for a large number of people, PBEM is not practical. We are having a hell of a time with 5 people in Pioneer.

A new patch is on the way, and might allow for an MP game.

Say joe, who's winning your PBEM game right now..... Are you kicking a$$ ;)

im in *germany, persia, maybe vikings or spanish or maybe even koreans?*

Originally posted by joespaniel
I think for a large number of people, PBEM is not practical. We are having a hell of a time with 5 people in Pioneer.

A new patch is on the way, and might allow for an MP game.

I agree with Joe. Hopefully with the new patch, we can meet every Saturday (just an example) in the evening and play x number of turns. Sounds like a good plan, but we have to wait and see if this new patch is as good as they say it will be.

We won't have to wait too long, the new patch will probably be out within a week.

CG

we need to go full force with 8 individual govts and "teams" will be decided later along with the alliance govt or how ever they choose to do it

even though i dont have the expansion yet i hope that this gets under way in two weeks or less

it doesnt need to be as detailed democracy but rules need to be made and individual forums introduced

*flushes PBEM option down the toilet*
No, with the new patch now (1.04) , it should be ok. and another patch is also under way. Maybe this will have to be a turn-based game becaus of the amount of teams.

I wouldn't mind doing a turn-based game in the future but right now, PBEM seems the best option because every time i try to play a game other then sp and hotseat, my computer crashes. Mabye when the next patch(s) comes out, PBEM won't be necessary.

when we gonna start?

After trying 10 turns of non-hotseat multiplayer (only ten because then it crashed), i decided there is no way i would do something like this.

BTW, Wildfire, you have a very true signature there.

a few of us started a pbem game last night
chieftess and i thought that for now atleast PBEM would work best
we need some rules to be set up
should we just adapt demo's rules or should we make a few and each "province" makes thier own rules and the "alliances" make thier own
all those still in should reply so we can get started by the end of november

If I'm not too late (which I probably am) can I join?

Thanks EQandcivfanatic, i thought so ;)


Oh yes, Chieftess, when are we going to start this game?? More people are getting PTW but i think we have enough people interested to start

Just an update. I'm writing the rules for the game now. :)

Great, let us all know when you got the rules (and teams) ready

With thend of the month approaching for the rest of the world you may have some more takers......

If you still have room, i would like to join. This a great idea !! Could be lots of fun ! :)

Sure, you can join. :) Anyone can join.

Can we start this now? i know we were going to wait for the other versions to be releashed but now that they have been delayed until December, we should start this game now if you have the rules and stuff made up.

If anyone even reads this thread anymore :p

im here and ready
i think it should be turn based classic
or pbem
so lets atleast get going since 1.14 has been released
we can organize down the road

Ok, here it is!

The Republic Game Rules (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/RepGame_Rules_v1.zip)!

The game will get underway!

This thread will remain here as the discussion thread. Certain actions (like declaring war, etc.) seem to work a little better in PBEM than what I read about in Multiplayer. Also, the first term will be on a "first come first serve" basis. :)

The game will be in the PBEM subforum.

If not too late, id like to participate

I would like to particapate. :D

Ill be honored to be the Military Leader :D.

I will participate on any team that is willing to have me ;-)
I just warn in advance that I won't have PTW, and hence, can't be DP, until Christmas though... :(

Veera, I think this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37819) is the thread you're looking for :)