Check out this piece of screenshot. I circled the odd lonely river, so hopefully it's clearer to you.
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/SoullessNeko/PAE%20III/th_PAEIIIlonelyriver.jpg (http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/SoullessNeko/PAE%20III/?action=view&current=PAEIIIlonelyriver.jpg)

Addit: It looks like your latest beta doesn't have that problem anymore.

Strange. I just could find the missing river in the maps....

Oh well, maybe I accidentally hit something wrong when I was viewing in WB.

A volcano erupted near one of my city and caused acid rains (my citizens were tripped and stoned for hundred of years). I noticed that the acid rains destroy only roads on the affected tiles, and leave other improvements alone, including the road in the city tile. That's suppose to do that?

- Forum's strategy tip mentioned "increase city's happiness with access to Fur, Ivory, Silk, or Whales." However, the building does not give such affect at all. Is the tip wrong?

This discrepancy is still there. So, is the Strategy tip or the building wrong?


Interesting points (not bug just things I like to share) and observation

I just got a tech "Runes" from conquering a Gallic city. It's nice to see that I can "steal" someone's tech in war, although Runes is quite useless since I am in classical era already :)

Also, there's a chance of getting "Treasure" units when conquering a city. This I like a lot! So far Gallic's cities have been giving me a number of Treasure units, which can be converted to 150 gold in my capital.

Sea People is now very fear some. I've had several of them landed on my land trying to invade my coastal cities. I've been lucky to have troops around the area to fend them off, though once or twice I almost lost a city.

I don't have any bug report at the moment, but some observation about the game's speed/timeline. I've been playing Epic speed (I have never tried Normal, since I always like a longer game, and I may go to Marathon after the current game ends), and here's some timeline:

Rome, Epic speed, Large 18 civs map with no barb cities:
3150BC - Bronze Age
860BC - Iron Age
442BC - Classical Age

I seem always got to the ages somewhat late. I've even skipped over a lot of techs (Archery, Arrowheads, Spearheads, war chariot, codex, grammar), and only get them by tech trading. Yet, it doesn't seem I can keep up the pace with your timeline in the tech tree. I've made sure I don't have to big of empires, though I have to keep sending merchants and keep my tech beaker at 50%. Surprisingly, although I fall behind a bit in the beginning, I managed to keep up with the AI later on, and even becoming the leader in tech with only 50% research.

Mounted Mercenary and Horsemen have the exact same price and stats. Their only difference is the building required to produce the units, and Mounted Mercenary has the +1 gold cost per turn. So, why would one get Mounted Mercenary, which cost extra per turn, instead of Horsemen, which has the exact same stats without cost per turn?

Not quite a bug, but its grammatical error is unnerving (no offense intended :) I know how hard it is for having English as second/third language), as much as I try to ignore it :) When your unit won a battle, you receive gold with the following text:
You could win 1 gold worth of items.
I think it may be better to say:
You've looted 1 gold from your victory.

A volcano erupted near one of my city and caused acid rains (my citizens were tripped and stoned for hundred of years). I noticed that the acid rains destroy only roads on the affected tiles, and leave other improvements alone, including the road in the city tile. That's suppose to do that?

Yes, this was intended, but I changed that to avoid open questions. The acid rain feature gives enough penalty ;) Thx!

Forum: This discrepancy is still there. So, is the Strategy tip or the building wrong?

strategy texts are not finished yet.

Interesting points (not bug just things I like to share) and observation

I just got a tech "Runes" from conquering a Gallic city. It's nice to see that I can "steal" someone's tech in war, although Runes is quite useless since I am in classical era already

Yes. Those Techs although they are useless for building issues, they give gaming points. I'

I don't have any bug report at the moment, but some observation about the game's speed/timeline. I've been playing Epic speed (I have never tried Normal, since I always like a longer game, and I may go to Marathon after the current game ends), and here's some timeline:

Rome, Epic speed, Large 18 civs map with no barb cities:
3150BC - Bronze Age
860BC - Iron Age
442BC - Classical Age

Thx. That's important!

Mounted Mercenary and Horsemen have the exact same price and stats. Their only difference is the building required to produce the units, and Mounted Mercenary has the +1 gold cost per turn. So, why would one get Mounted Mercenary, which cost extra per turn, instead of Horsemen, which has the exact same stats without cost per turn?

You forget one important thing: Horsemen need horses. Mercenary units don't. (also important for random maps)

Not quite a bug, but its grammatical error is unnerving (no offense intended I know how hard it is for having English as second/third language), as much as I try to ignore it When your unit won a battle, you receive gold with the following text:

Thx. But I change it to You've looted 1 gold worth of items. It is very important to tell the player, why he earns gold although currency is not available!

go on testing ;)

Hm... some things of concern.

Pericles has discovered Philosophy (I know this because espionage shows that he is researching Humoral Medicine), and he is friendly toward me. However, everytime I go to the diplo screen, it doesn't show Philosophy as a tradeable tech. Others he has that I don't, do show up.

Philosophy requires Greek knowledge, which only the Greek has it since the beginning of time. To my knowledge, you cannot ask for a tech you don't have the pre-req tech, please correct me if I am wrong. If that's the case, the only way I can get any tech with Greek Knowledge pre-req is by force, and hoping that conquering his cities would reveal me those techs, hopefully start with Greek Knowledge. Am I wrong about this?

I'm afraid you're right. But I'll investigate further on this how to fix that....

Pie, I was viewing the game on WB (was playing Keinpferd's map on marathon), and the Civ4 just CTD'ed on me. I checked the Python log and found this:
Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvScreensInterface", line 657, in handleInput

File "CvMainInterface", line 3843, in handleInput

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function handleInput failed, module CvScreensInterface


In resmgr.log:
RESMGR: Scene file failed to load. Reason: (code:1) Cannot open file.


I am not sure if either of them the cause, or if being in WB or not causing the errors.

This is just a standard command
iOwner = g_pSelectedUnit.getOwner()
so, I got no clue. Did you try to save and load again?!

I can continue the game from the last auto-save with no problem. So far, I haven't seen that issue again.

I think this was a normal civ bug, when a game runs for hours and the log files grow into undefined dimensions... when saving and loading after a long gameplay civ always runs faster again.

I've checked another CtD bug when unloading sea peoples. Has been repaired.

I am playing on Keinpferd's map. I am about to enter Classical Age, and I just realized that I haven't built Labyrinth of Knossos. It apparently exists already in barbarian city of Knossos in Minoan.

I remember you did the same with Stonehenge, where it already exist in game in the barbarian city of Tribe of Iceni (located in Britain, nowadays London), for your own maps. However, in this map, it isn't, and I was able to built it in Rome.

I am curious if this difference are intended?

thx ono... I think this was just a forgotten task of Keinpferd. I will place Stonehenge to its owners ;)

thx ono... I think this was just a forgotten task of Keinpferd. I will place Stonehenge to its owners ;)

Haha, that was clearly the number one of the ten most forgotten tasks of Keinpferd's. Em, but I still wonder what my proper task:p would have been, take the labyrinth out or leave it in?

I say out, since it's got interesting +2 XP affect, which usually user will want it on a specific unit producing city. Who would want to spam units out from an island? :)

This teasing is maddening! I keep seeing posts and hoping that the next version is out. ARGH!

Red Boxer, I hear you :D I think it should be soon, pie just needs to work out few kinks and stuff, I believe. But don't hold your breath :)

Pie, I just thought this is interesting, and worth mentioning.

The tech "Spearheads" allows the "Disc Chariot" unit to be built. The tech "War Chariot" allows the "War Chariot" unit to be built. However, without the knowledge of "Disc Chariot", I can still discover tech "War Chariot" and built the unit "War Chariot". Although, in the passing, I would have thought in order to know how to built a war chariot, I might have need to know how to built a disc chariot first. However, in the tech flow, that may not make much sense because you don't necessary need to know about Spearheads stuff in order to know how to make a war chariot.

So now it's another tech I can skip over :)

I just got another CTD from the game. I happened to do quick save beforehand. Basically, it was the end of the turn, and when I clicked "End of Turn", it processed a bit then CTD'ed. I tried to reload the quick save several times, and it always does the same thing.

Then, I tried from the auto-save of the same last turn, and redid the turn. However, it did the same where it CTD'ed after the end of turn. I tested several times, and it always ended with CTD.

Finally, I tried from the previous turn, and that seemed work. So, whatever it is, the CTD seems to be related with whatever was going on with the last turn.

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the error log that may indicate whatever issues with the CTD.

I attached my quick-save, as well as, some of the previous turns in this post. Hopefully, it will be useful for you to find what's wrong.

I say out, since it's got interesting +2 XP affect, which usually user will want it on a specific unit producing city. Who would want to spam units out from an island? :)

Right. It's deleting only one line in the WB file to get rid of the Labyrinth. But the simple line is quite meaningful to the antagonizing realism-emersion-sensemaking-godgame preference as opposed to the balance-fairness-boardgame-whatif-preference. For it looks like some people have regarded PAE somehow on the realist side in the past, which it isn't. I think, Pie has a good sense of treating both attitudes towards Civ equally and that PAE III will prove to be a rather good synthesis of both. And, why give anybody a reason to argue, "see, PAE isn't allowig the player to build the Labyrinth where he likes", so I agree to out.

There's realism, and there is what-if. There's balance, and there is the-real-world-is-not-balance. I guess compromise will just have to be made between the two front :) Even then, you can never satisfy everyone. Oh well, that's life.

This teasing is maddening! I keep seeing posts and hoping that the next version is out. ARGH!

Check out the "I spy with my little eye…" (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=70473)-Thread on the German forum. There are some screenshots of some of the new special bonus units (like a Balearic slinger or Teuton footman) only available to the player who possesses or captures the corresponding bonus ressources (in the shape of differently looking huts).

Pie, is it possible to still create Axeman even when Romans can create Roman Legion? Right now, when you discover Broadsword and shield, if your city can create Roman Legion, you won't be able to create Axeman any longer. However, in some cases, Axeman is still useful against melee units. Even with Strength of 5, against melee (50% vs melee), that is 7.5, still higher than Roman Legion, which has strength of 7.

Pie, I just thought this is interesting, and worth mentioning.

The tech "Spearheads" allows the "Disc Chariot" unit to be built. The tech "War Chariot" allows the "War Chariot" unit to be built. However, without the knowledge of "Disc Chariot", I can still discover tech "War Chariot" and built the unit "War Chariot". Although, in the passing, I would have thought in order to know how to built a war chariot, I might have need to know how to built a disc chariot first. However, in the tech flow, that may not make much sense because you don't necessary need to know about Spearheads stuff in order to know how to make a war chariot.

So now it's another tech I can skip over :)

Ok, I will put a new Tech into the Tech Tree. ;)

I just got another CTD from the game. I happened to do quick save beforehand. Basically, it was the end of the turn, and when I clicked "End of Turn", it processed a bit then CTD'ed. I tried to reload the quick save several times, and it always does the same thing.

Then, I tried from the auto-save of the same last turn, and redid the turn. However, it did the same where it CTD'ed after the end of turn. I tested several times, and it always ended with CTD.

Finally, I tried from the previous turn, and that seemed work. So, whatever it is, the CTD seems to be related with whatever was going on with the last turn.

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the error log that may indicate whatever issues with the CTD.

I attached my quick-save, as well as, some of the previous turns in this post. Hopefully, it will be useful for you to find what's wrong.

I am sorry, I can't check it anymore.. too much changes! But don't worry, you will get the final version for proof reading before the official download can start.

Pie, is it possible to still create Axeman even when Romans can create Roman Legion? Right now, when you discover Broadsword and shield, if your city can create Roman Legion, you won't be able to create Axeman any longer. However, in some cases, Axeman is still useful against melee units. Even with Strength of 5, against melee (50% vs melee), that is 7.5, still higher than Roman Legion, which has strength of 7.

That's a good issue. I will change the bonus of axeman against melee to 25%. This is realistic too and more tactical ;)

Aw... Axeman is being nerfed :) Hehehe... now there's a reason to build more War Chariot and Skirmirshers.

aaaahh, skirmisher: I forgot... but War Chariots are still fine ;) the tanks of the ancient times.

What do you mean you forgot? :dubious:

I forgot to give them 25% instead of 50% against melee ;)

but don't worry: I will change promotion values and implement more than 20 new promotion updates to increase strength and tactical unit gameplay ;)

eg. Woodsman:

previous:
Woodsman I: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman II: +30% ST in forests
Woodsman III: +25% in attacking in forests only

new:
Woodsman I: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman II: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman III: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman IV: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman V: +20% ST in forests

previous:
Woodsman I: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman II: +30% ST in forests
Woodsman III: +25% in attacking in forests only

new:
Woodsman I: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman II: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman III: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman IV: +20% ST in forests
Woodsman V: +20% ST in forests

I can see an exploit here: Stack a Woodsman V promoted guy with a Pillage X promoted unit, and let them travel together through enemy mined wood hill tiles (of which there are a many in realistic PAE Europe maps): They will make lots of money protecting-pillaging as a double act, while the AI keeps rebuilding destroyed mines. The AI will waste countless units on them yet unable to kill them.

Pie, one thing I noticed in North Africa is that in many of my games in beta, Chartage has never been able to become major power. At best, it just hold of its position, and expand to the east, the lest fertile area because you've moved Numidia right next to Carthage in the west. Granted, now Numidia isn't getting slaughtered by Berbers anymore. Perhaps moves them a bit westward, closer to Berbers? It's not fun when I can beat the crap out of Chartage too easy :)

Pie, one thing I noticed in North Africa is that in many of my games in beta, Chartage has never been able to become major power. At best, it just hold of its position, and expand to the east, the lest fertile area because you've moved Numidia right next to Carthage in the west. Granted, now Numidia isn't getting slaughtered by Berbers anymore. Perhaps moves them a bit westward, closer to Berbers? It's not fun when I can beat the crap out of Chartage too easy :)

Why not give Hannibal a little something through the leader traits? Maybe earlier boats to allow earlier settlement to Sicily and Sardinia?

Or make the Carthage's part of North Africa a bit richer with resources to give them a boost. That may help, but need to test it thoroughly.

:think:
1) Numidia is where it is
2) Numidia and Carthago helped each other against Rome. Carthagos fall began when Numidia changed their loyalty to Rome
3) Carthago has less space -> they should expand to sea.
4) Carthago has +100% to naval units.

I think, you'd better check, when playing a civ far away from there, eg. persia. then you can see how the AI manages to be Carthage and Rome.

Does Fog of War only affect human player? I have Cartography, and just did a map trading with Hammurabi, who doesn't have Cartography yet. However, the trade revealed all of the middle east in some part of northeast of Africa. If FoW affects AI as well, it should be impossible because his map should only reveals his immediate area and part of cities he can see due to espionage.

Does Fog of War only affect human player? I have Cartography, and just did a map trading with Hammurabi, who doesn't have Cartography yet. However, the trade revealed all of the middle east in some part of northeast of Africa. If FoW affects AI as well, it should be impossible because his map should only reveals his immediate area and part of cities he can see due to espionage.

I had something similar. Could it be, that Hammurabi made a deal on the same turn with somebody else that got him knowledge of that part of the map?

I am not sure, but I doubt that's the case. It's happened in two different games now. Plus, the map covers more than several civs (persian, phoenician, egypt, hittite, and so on). This is why I assume that the AI didn't have such handicap.

Also, the barbarians, when they got slaves from defeating palyer's unit, they utilize the slaves either as workers or settle them in the city. What's funny is when the slaves revolts where the revolting slaves will be barbarian insurgent unit. In the case of player's slaves, this will become a threat to the immediate surrounding's units/cities. However, in the case of barbarian's slaves, well, they just received additional units fighting for them for free :p I guess there's no easy way to make barbarian's insurgent attacking barbarian cities/units :D

hi

How can Rome can expand?

ashley,

Quite slowly. You don't expect Rome to be a major power house until at least when you hit Iron Age. Even then, you don't want to over expanding out of Italia peninsula, or you will crash your economy. Rome will shine when you get to Classical Era. Most of the time, I have to keep my research at 50%, or else I bankrupt the coffer. Just remember, worker's improvement can be expensive. Do not build unneeded roads, just connect resources (if no river tile), and cities around.

When you have heavily promoted Shortswordman or Axeman units, do not upgrade them to Roman Legions as soon as you can. Believe me, that will save you several bucks per turn, because Roman Legion unit costs extra +1 gold per turn. Only do so when you have a lot of surpluses.

Just build enough units for defense in early time. If possible block of the choking points to prevent other civs to get into Italia peninsula. There are 3 points: 2 chokepoints at the northwest, and 1 at the northeast. Don't try to cramp as many cities as possible in the peninsula. Probably only around 5-6 is good enough, so you don't have to pay too much for maintenance due to numbers of cities.

Take your time with the expansion. Once you hit Classical Age, as long as you've managed to hold your ground in Italia peninsula, soon you will be unstoppable (depending on how advance you are compare to others, and the difficulties you play at).

I usually try to ally only with civs that right next to my neighbors, so not the ones immediately next to me. That way when I am ready to expand, I have allies to help me keep some of the enemies busy. Don't shy away to do lopsided trade if you have to. Sometimes it may seems that you are having a bad deal, but it beats having to research everything yourselves. Trade maps immediately for gold whenever possible, I usually do this by working on the list of my contacts. I usually don't care if my enemy get the full map, as I don't see any harm in doing so. So long I can drain their coffer (especially before I declare war), it's all good. Money is power in this game.

ono-neko

I ask the version of this mod can be compatible with my Civ 4 1.7.4 or BTS 3.0.0.91 or Warlord 2.0.0.0

You will definitely have BtS, and as far as I know, you will need to update your BtS to 3.19, which is the latest updates.

thx ono for helping.

the black FoW affects human players only. for 3 reasons:
1) saving calculation time per turn
2) the automated scout would move forward and backward for eternity ;)
3) the game, AI or barbarians always know, where to go. I think they do not really have FoW or just in a light version ;). eg: settlers always know where to settle even if you cannot see the surrounding resources. or eg: as romans: when you close your empire on the east alps, the AI comes round to the west side....

Yay for cheating AI! Just kidding :D I wonder if the AIs will keep making more scouts to move back and forth for eternity on every tiles :lol:

Is it me, or it seems that every time natural disaster (meteor, volcano eruption, giant sea storm, alien invasion, etc) always strikes when the game is announcing "The Greatest Civilizations"? Because of that game announcer pop-up, I rarely can see the full animation of the natural disaster :(

Speaking of natural disaster...

A Giant Sea Storm struck a one-tile lake! :lol:

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/SoullessNeko/PAE%20III/GiantSeaStromina1-tilelake.png

Does Punic Wars included?

I now put the disasters at the end of a turn and not at the beginning (of the player's turn)

Punic Wars are not included. too less time.

Just got Python Exception error:


Traceback (most recent call last):

File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 209, in handleEvent

File "CvEventManager", line 2592, in onTechAcquired

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

And the game crashed, and I cannot continue the game even after reload from the save of previous turn.

Oh, thx. I will have a look.

Next week you'll get the final BETA version for proof reading with all python changes, pedia and strategy texts and some new elements.

:) My spies told me, that you are actually in the TAM threads active. Are you an ancient lover, a TAM member or a spy? ;) And what do you think of a TAM for Civ V ?
I just thought about calling ambrox62 for making an ancient mod for Civ V but I am not very happy with TAM. There are soooo many things missing... and I also don't know, if PAE for Civ V can be modded like PAE III for Civ IV?

Oh, thx. I will have a look.

Next week you'll get the final BETA version for proof reading with all python changes, pedia and strategy texts and some new elements.

Sounds good to me. I saw that you've got bunch of people in the German's forum doing the beta testing for you as well :)


:) My spies told me, that you are actually in the TAM threads active. Are you an ancient lover, a TAM member or a spy? ;) And what do you think of a TAM for Civ V ?
I just thought about calling ambrox62 for making an ancient mod for Civ V but I am not very happy with TAM. There are soooo many things missing... and I also don't know, if PAE for Civ V can be modded like PAE III for Civ IV?

Ah, Um... :mischief: I am a fan of anything with ancient/medieval theme, and I've been playing TAM since CivIII :) There are things that are unique with TAM mod, and your PAE has its own uniqueness as well. For me personally, it's two different game with different philosophy and focus. Honestly, I enjoy both mods in different way. Aside of TAM and PAE, I actually helped doing gameplay testing for Fairy Tale mod as well (check my signature), which is a medieval mod.

The TAM team has been having discussion about the planning for Civ V version. There's a public discussion thread in their forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=206). I think it may be a while until they can get something tangible out for TAM5 (that's what they called for CivV version). You can probably talk with Ambrox, Graywarden, or Thamis (three that I know being active in the forum) about TAM5.

I don't have much involvement with TAM5 at the moment since I am currently unable to obtain a copy of CivV. Mostly I am helping with the Civ4 version with some ideas and python coding/implementation. I did the BUG add-on for TAM, which is a very good learning experience for me in getting familiar with python and Civ4's XML. There are still some possibilities or ideas that may be implemented in Civ4 version of TAM (don't worry, I don't steal any idea from PAE :D).

Sounds good to me. I saw that you've got bunch of people in the German's forum doing the beta testing for you as well.

Yes. They do. And this is very helpful! They've also helped me by adding the pedia and strategy texts. This takes lots of time!

Ah, Um... I am a fan of anything with ancient/medieval theme, and I've been playing TAM since CivIII There are things that are unique with TAM mod, and your PAE has its own uniqueness as well. For me personally, it's two different game with different philosophy and focus. Honestly, I enjoy both mods in different way. Aside of TAM and PAE, I actually helped doing gameplay testing for Fairy Tale mod as well (check my signature), which is a medieval mod.

Great thing.

The TAM team has been having discussion about the planning for Civ V version. There's a public discussion thread in their forum. I think it may be a while until they can get something tangible out for TAM5 (that's what they called for CivV version). You can probably talk with Ambrox, Graywarden, or Thamis (three that I know being active in the forum) about TAM5.

I'll really think of that, but first I need holidays ;)

I don't have much involvement with TAM5 at the moment since I am currently unable to obtain a copy of CivV. Mostly I am helping with the Civ4 version with some ideas and python coding/implementation. I did the BUG add-on for TAM, which is a very good learning experience for me in getting familiar with python and Civ4's XML. There are still some possibilities or ideas that may be implemented in Civ4 version of TAM (don't worry, I don't steal any idea from PAE ).

But you may to! ;) You may suggest some features of PAE, why not! Credit me and and I'm happy.

I'll really think of that, but first I need holidays ;)

What? No, no holiday for you! :whipped: Now, get back to work with PAE III :D
:joke:


But you may to! ;) You may suggest some features of PAE, why not! Credit me and and I'm happy.
Well, then I have your permission to "steal" PAE's ideas, if/when I decide to do so :D Of course, if that's the case, definitely will give credit where its due, that is me... er... I mean, you, Pie_at, you have the credit. That's what I meant. Yeah...

:D:goodjob:

So, I got the rar file, not what do I do with it?

Hi Skwing, unpack the rar with eg. WinRar (downloadable as shareware) into the folder MyGames/Beyond the Sword/Mods

Open BTS - got to "Load Mod" - choose Pie's Ancient Europe

OK, thanks! I don't use rar's much.

Just a few days and the newest PAE Version will be available!

@ono-neko: How far are you? :wavey:

I am sorry I've been quite busy lately so my progress is slow. Hopefully I can finish it before this weekend. That's my target anyway.

Ok. *waitingandhoping*

ono, I give you more time. You don't need to hurry. I got a strange problem with Multiplayer. I have to handle this first, before I can make PAE III public.

Hey, ono! I am ready! Waiting for you files ;)

PAE III RELEASE
This Friday, 03.12.2010

Great, pie_at. :)

Yeah :goodjob:

So, what are we supposed to do during the next one or two years, until Civ V is patched to good? Very easy: play Pie's Ancient Europe III, the Rome among the Ancient mods!

When you're looking for a richer and greatly improved BTS with only few rule changes, my first recommandation will still be History Rewritten (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=353049) by Xyth. But if you're open to an entire new game, that doesn't reward always-the-same safe Civ IV routines, with bold rule changes in many areas, try Pie's mod.

The third version is both for players, who prefer an elaborate strategy game with working multiplayer and good game balance even on random maps, – and also for players who want to immerse into antiquity. PAE III is very giving to both "parties", whose arguments can be found in almost any mod dedicated discussion thread on these forums, the "boardgame-strategy-balance-fairness"-faction versus the "godgame-simulation-immersion-realism"-faction. Both factions will be happy. The ancient history lovers even more so, for a considerable amount of research and detail appreciation went into it. You will be surprised by the degree of accuracy and abundance of possibilities: Built the most splendid cities in varying regional styles. Ornate your cities with the best skins for wonders and structures available. Defend those cities with ranged combat enabled non-suicidal catapults and onagers.

…how long will you bear up as Athenians against the invincible Spartans? Watch them destroy each other as Thebans, and come off best, yourself. Beat Thebes with your Macedon companions (and spearmen carrying the probably longest spears ever seen in a Civ IV game:p). Or interrupt the Macedon sea trade with Rome using your fast Liburni, as Teuta, queen of Illyria. Punish the conceited Romans with your Carthaginian Sacred Band. Or, despite of a swampy starting position, force the rest of the world under the yoke of the Roman Empire!

You will hardly find an ancient unit that isn't included in PAE III. But it's not about impressing by amassing stuff and more stuff. Each unit has its strengths and weaknesses and a distinctness of its own. Even some generals are (very nicely) individually skinned. But sometimes they switch sides…

Cities sometimes panic, when an enemy force is approaching and will surrender without any bloodshed. But can you rely on your own troops, at all? After loosing battle, they defect, sometimes. Or enemy defectors join your forces, and all of sudden you have the most spectacular foreign units in your army that you aren't able to built by yourself. If the fortunes of war mean it, you even get one of the brand new special bonus units, such as Assyrian bowmen, Teuton footmen, Bactrian riders, Balearian slingers, each of which I would be willing for pay for, if it was a Civ V DLC;)…

Check the updated feature list for more!

Great Mod! I've been thoroughly enjoying the new features...

I do, however, Have a bug to report:

"Military State" civic is supposed to reduce unhappy citizens by 2, if I am not mistaken. This seems to be broken; when I switch from hereditary rule>> Military state, there is no change in the morale of my citizens (in any city, large or small).

Hi incognet,

Reducing? No, this civic should increase unhappy citizens by 2! Only the biggest cities.

The barbarian cities really change the gameplay. The Greeks went nuts and took over a huge chunk of the Europe.
The Hittites built the Forum Romanum somehow.

Seems like a big improvement over the last iteration Pie, great job to you and all of those who assist you.

I am really enjoying my game with Rome, its great pie. Very good job.

Now, a brave man should make a historic scenario in 280 BC, or 218 BC or roman civil war. :D

Would anyone be willing to modify the Peloponnesian War scenario from 'Warlords'; incorporate the features of Pie's Ancient Europe III?

Much of the work has already been done...

The Peloponnesian map was excellent, with most of the historical cities in place...

Would anyone be willing to modify the Peloponnesian War scenario from 'Warlords'; incorporate the features of Pie's Ancient Europe III?

Much of the work has already been done...

The Peloponnesian map was excellent, with most of the historical cities in place...

:)I think, I got something (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=67618) for you. Will be published in about a week. The actual work is already done, including an appearance of the Persians, which was Python programmed by Pie. The only thing, that isn't finished yet, is translating objects and Pedia entries in English. Check out the last pages of my thread on the German forum for screenshots. Of course, I will post some here, too, when it's time;).

Great news, guys.

Haha, tried the new version, I have to say it was fun. XD
This is the first time I've ever lost due to being broke!!! XD (Darn Sparta's unrest! :P)

:)I think, I got something (http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=67618) for you. Will be published in about a week. The actual work is already done, including an appearance of the Persians, which was Python programmed by Pie. The only thing, that isn't finished yet, is translating objects and Pedia entries in English. Check out the last pages of my thread on the German forum for screenshots. Of course, I will post some here, too, when it's time;).

Wow, i have seen the images in civforum.de (this barbarian languages are really hard for us latins), the Corintho and Megara ones i suppose, looks great, Keinpferd. Is a full scenario? I mean...with fully developed cities, standing armies and so? or only starting civs?

So the 16th Dec we will have it. Good work. :)

Wow, i have seen the images in civforum.de (this barbarian languages are really hard for us latins), the Corintho and Megara ones i suppose, looks great, Keinpferd. Is a full scenario? I mean...with fully developed cities, standing armies and so? or only starting civs?

So the 16th Dec we will have it. Good work. :)

When I was helping on the Pedia entries for PAE III, researching on Indibil and the Celtiberians, I found only very little, so I put some Spanish sites into the Google translator, which was kind of fun;)…

No scenario with cities and armies, no. I hope, you're not disappointed, now;). It's a small modmod. But a scenario could easily be based on it. Would definitely be much more interesting a scenario, if you get "real" civs, leaders, UUs, unique Greek wonders, and so fourth, than, like in many scenarios, Hannibal in the role of Periander, Nebukadnezar in the role of Kroisos. And this will be the case, now. I added all the neccessary Greek civs and leaders and modeled their leadertraits individually. And I threw about 15 or 20 new units in, that aren't included in PAE, so the Greek armies won't be looking to generic.

16th December, could be, maybe even a little sooner. Before publishing, Pie will only do some tweaking on the Persian feature (one scenario element, at least), and I'm busy trying to fill the voids in the Pedia.

Oh, I forgot to say, that Thorgal is working on a 300 BC scenario, that I'm really looking forward to, focussing on the Diadoch wars. And since he did some Pedia-translations in English, he might offer an international version, too.

I hope so. You guys are too much in your german forum, the rest of the world needs that kind of work. Waiting for that, keinpferd.

Have tried the MOD on weekend and got a problem with encodings.

The city names as well as special symbols in Civilopedia are corrupt. I see the symbols for Phoenician or Greek cults instead of normal Latin letters. What is worse, I cannot understand the benefits of civics and corporations.

I play the special Russian 1C edition of BtS. It may be played in two languages: Russian and English. Normally I play using English interface because the translation into Russian is not perfect. Though I don’t have much experience in playing mods, I remember I have tried "Better BtS AI" mod before and the city names and Civilopedia entries were represented correctly.

Any suggestions? I hope the problem may be solved by setting language as English in the .ini file or elsewhere, I just don't know how to tweak Civ4. Would be glad if someone could help.

Overall, the mod is very interesting! Thanks, Pie!

Thx Ingvarr... I am sorry, I have no experience in the Russian edition. I just adapted the original XML-Tags in all 5 standard languages and new texts are just in english (english, french, spanish and italian tag-line) or german (german tag-line).

I hope there is someone who can help out with this issue!?

Dear Pie,

thank you for a quick answer. I have googled a little bit, it seems there is no easy way to play user-created modes using Russian 1C edition.

As far as I understand it would be possible to read the XML files to get information about civics, buildings etc. This mod is really, really nice, I don't care about unreadable city names, just need information related to game mechanics.

Hm.. did you try this?: go into the file PieAncientEuropeIII.ini (in MyGames/Beyond the Sword/Mods/PieAncientEuropeIII/ - the root folder of my mod) and change NoCustomAssets = 0 to NoCustomAssets = 1
save this and start again.

Thanks for the advice. I will also try to move the mod to C:\Program Files\... , maybe the game doesn't understand Cyrillic symbols in the path way... (I have "Мои документы" instead of "My Documents", stupid stone-age Windows doesn't know what is Unicode).

I will try on Saturday and report. Just don't play on working days - the game is too addictive and interfers with work :)

By the way, are you fundamentally ready to make changes in the mod in the future? I think two things may be changed in the tech tree:

1) I propose to move general medicine, opening Medic promotions, closer to 300 BC. As far as I know, the army of Alexander has had a very effective medical service, and the diadochi certainly used a developed field medicine, otherwise they would be unable to operate their giant armies and launch such impressive military expeditions as, for example, the raid on Babylon organized by Ptolemy III. Actually the scientific approach to medicine was largely developed by Herophilos and other people working in the Library of Alexandria, and people like Galen become so famous later because their knowledge was largely based on the works of the past.

2) The tech "Vassalage"... wouldn't "Client States" be a better name? Yes, I know, the internal structure of Persian and Parphian states are sometimes characterised as feudal, but IMHO "Vassalage" is a typical Western European feature started by the edict of Charles the Bald in the 9th century AD. While Mauretania, Numidia, Nicomedia etc. are usually called "Client States" of the Late Roman Republic.

:)

Perhaps you have to set your windows system language to english too?

Your suggestions are wise! I will change them.

Pie, i am enjoying very much a game with the europe map with barbarian cities preset. I have found some errors in Hispania. Here is a map with iberian and celtiberian tribes in 300 BC if you want to change some city names. I.E. Visigoths( that people weren´t in Iberia since s. V AD) or Malaca (was in the south, not in the north).

Perhaps Thorgal could use it too for his 300 BC scenario.

Another useful site could be twcenter and Rome Surrectum 2 mod, they have a similar start and a lot of really detailed info about cities, units, buildings and so...

There is a Diadochi wars mod too, not so detailed but more eastern lore oriented.

1) I propose to move general medicine, opening Medic promotions, closer to 300 BC. As far as I know, the army of Alexander has had a very effective medical service, and the diadochi certainly used a developed field medicine, otherwise they would be unable to operate their giant armies and launch such impressive military expeditions as, for example, the raid on Babylon organized by Ptolemy III. Actually the scientific approach to medicine was largely developed by Herophilos and other people working in the Library of Alexandria, and people like Galen become so famous later because their knowledge was largely based on the works of the past.


Therer are rumoral medicine (available for greeks and macedons) about 600 BC and general therapeutics about 50 AD. This should fit. And the general healing promotion is available about 400 BC with Alchemy.

@wolfman: oh you just found a new found city of the barbarians. these cities have random names (standard CIV names). I do not check to plot like in RFC because this mod can be used for any other maps. if you have a look at the initial cities (WB) then you'll see that those cities (tribes) are correct.

Well , it was quite lucky to have visigoths and malaca in Spain. :) In that scenario with pre-placed barbarian cities i think no barbarian cities spawns should be better, more real, i dont know if that is possible.

What happens with keinpferd modmod? I downloaded the preAlpha2 from civforum.de, but i have xml errors while loading the mod.

Isnt playable yet?

Well , it was quite lucky to have visigoths and malaca in Spain. :) In that scenario with pre-placed barbarian cities i think no barbarian cities spawns should be better, more real, i dont know if that is possible.

What happens with keinpferd modmod? I downloaded the preAlpha2 from civforum.de, but i have xml errors while loading the mod.

Isnt playable yet?

That was for PAE II. Seemed to work okay for the Mac users.

Right now, I'm just testing out a few things for the PAE III modmod, like game speed, the Python Persians feature and some balance questions. You know, as a human player you will easily lead the scoreboard on Immortal with almost any of the civs, even with the most crappiest starting positions, but the KI, once again, doesn't get it:rolleyes:.

I'll send you the dl link to the preBeta (sounds pretentious, I know) tomorrow night. I'm confident, there won't be any loading errors – or at least none that we can't get fixed somehow;).

Great news.

Well , it was quite lucky to have visigoths and malaca in Spain. In that scenario with pre-placed barbarian cities i think no barbarian cities spawns should be better, more real, i dont know if that is possible.
It would be possible but it also would be an immens effort. because I got 3 different map sizes for that scenarios.

A new download version will be available soon, where the last bugs in python (rebellion, city renegading,...) got repaired and some things got compensated and new defined (Babylon Walls, Promotions, Mercenary costs, Auxiliary troops, ship upgrades,...)

I hope, Bakuel will be able to give me the disc chariots soon... the right skin of those units are really missing and disc chariots will get their Premier in this mod.

Bakuel's skins are always :cool:. Did he know, what disk chariots were;), before you told him?

Guys, a thing for you two, i am not sure but i think the Platon Academy Wonder cant be builded by a Great Scientific, I think is a PAE matter , but not sure, perhaps its only in Hellas modmod.

Ah, another thing, perhaps you should ask for a project subforum, i think your work deserves it, and so we, poor no-german speakers could be more organized.

Dear Pie,

I have installed the mod in C:\Program Files\..., and now it works very well.

I have noticed that there is a possible exploit with your emigrant units. You have told us in the "notes" that the number of settlers per civ is limited to 1 to prevent mass settling. However, deliberately growing the city above health or happy limit gives a human player a lot of free emigrants. I am currently playing as Egypt on Keinpferd's map, and in 1824 BC I have founded 5 cities having built no settlers at all. AI certainly does not use this approach to quick expansion, it is "good in micromanaging" and does not want to take risks (of epidemics etc), therefore it does not grow its' cities beyond the limits. Before that I have never seen AI Egypt having more than 3 cities in the mid-game on that map.

Maybe you could make emigrants cheaper so that AI could compensate later on? I don't think you should eliminate the exploit completely, that is one of the ideas of the game how a human willing to take risks and develop a special strategy can beat the computer civs.

In my opinion cutting the cost of emigrant in half will help. AI is also no good in settling, it prefers waging wars and conquering barbarians, so I see, for example, Spartan "enclaves" of 4-5 cities with non-Greek names somewhere in Northern France (!) If they were able to settle more reasonably they would do, I am sure, basing on my long experience with un-modded BtS.

Guys, a thing for you two, i am not sure but i think the Platon Academy Wonder cant be builded by a Great Scientific, I think is a PAE matter , but not sure, perhaps its only in Hellas modmod.
You need libraries and schools.

Ah, another thing, perhaps you should ask for a project subforum, i think your work deserves it, and so we, poor no-german speakers could be more organized.
hm...

I have installed the mod in C:\Program Files\..., and now it works very well.
Great!

In my opinion cutting the cost of emigrant in half will help. AI is also no good in settling, it prefers waging wars and conquering barbarians, so I see, for example, Spartan "enclaves" of 4-5 cities with non-Greek names somewhere in Northern France (!) If they were able to settle more reasonably they would do, I am sure, basing on my long experience with un-modded BtS.
hm.. there are more than one possibilities:
a) unset the limit of settlers
b) set the limit of emigrants to 1, but this does not provides the automatical upcoming from a city
c) reduce the chance of upcoming emigrants
d) let the AI-cities become more unhappy and unhealty (chance of growing from 30% -> 40% or 50%)

to reduce costs will not change anything, I think.

IMHO, option "d" is the most promising, because it will add greatly to replayability. I mean if someone likes the same civ and map, there is more chances that the AI neighbours will develop very differently.

In my current game I have easily outsettled Phoenicians and I have 4 great cities, three of them in Egypt building culture and the fourth in Israel building troops. That place in Israel was designed for Phoenician city, I think. And the game could be much more difficult if I could not get control of all the great locations in my region :)

Soon, there will be an updated version downloadable.

This patch will include lots of balancing things. And I hope we can have a real disc chariot skin by Bakuel in there. This will be the first MOD which includes this ancient skin. For you. ;)

Hey. I have this annoying bug come up quite often. When I conquer an enemy city its says that the enemy has conquered the city and as a consequence one of my cities revolts instead of theirs. See att pic. Can you do something about it?

And oh thanks for at superb mod :goodjob:

I know. This will be corrected with the next patch.

If you want a quick solution, take this file and replace the file in Mods/PieAncientEuropeIII/Assets/Python/

Old saves work with it.

thanks :)

WHEN WILL release the next version ?:cry:

In a few days. As soon as I can debug the MP Synch-errors. But I'll need a free day and I haven't... this will be difficult....

OK, first things first:

This mod is freaking awesome! This is probably the best Civ4 mod I've played. I particularly like that (A) it makes comprehensive, innovative use of available mod components , and (B) it plays to Civ4's strengths, not trying to make the engine do things it wasn't meant to do.

Unfortunately, though, I've managed to screw up the mod by modding it to my tastes. :(

So, I'm appealing for help with my mod-mod. I'll write what I changed and what got screwed up, and hopefully someone will be able to give me advice.

What's screwed up:


It seems that anybody is able to found any religion. In particular, Christianity is always founded around 1300BC, seemingly by Xerxes.

What I changed:


I added many barbarian cities in the locations of historic cities and tribes.

In cities representing Germanic and Celtic tribes, I put religion and religious buildings in the cities. I did not, however, place holy cities for either of the religions (Nordic and Celtic).

I also gave Germanic cities pallisades, walls, barbarian forts, Germanic mercenary guilds and barracks.

I changed the map slightly, increasing the size of Greece, Crete, Illyria and the Nile Delta.

I removed the Germanic and Dacian civs, and replaced them with Athens and Thebes from Keinpferd's mod-mod. I also replaced the Celtic leader with Vercingetorix.


So, any ideas on why religion is screwed up?

What's screwed up:


It seems that anybody is able to found any religion. In particular, Christianity is always founded around 1300BC, seemingly by Xerxes.

What I changed:


I added many barbarian cities in the locations of historic cities and tribes.

In cities representing Germanic and Celtic tribes, I put religion and religious buildings in the cities. I did not, however, place holy cities for either of the religions (Nordic and Celtic).

I also gave Germanic cities pallisades, walls, barbarian forts, Germanic mercenary guilds and barracks.

I changed the map slightly, increasing the size of Greece, Crete, Illyria and the Nile Delta.

I removed the Germanic and Dacian civs, and replaced them with Athens and Thebes from Keinpferd's mod-mod. I also replaced the Celtic leader with Vercingetorix.


So, any ideas on why religion is screwed up?

Most things you did seem unsuspicious to me except the religious buildings in Celt and German towns. Anyway, I remember, Thorgal, who is working on a 300 BC scenario, complained about Christianity being founded right at start in 300 BC, and that Pie told him, that was due to some strange behavior of Civ itself in regard to scenarios. So maybe you didn't screw up at all, and it's Civ's fault. Hope Pie can help you with that.

hey loseth,

you are creating a 1300 BC scenario and not a mod-mod, do you? A modmod means changing initial things like xml, python and SDK.

But if you only change a map and its cities and units, it's a scenario. and yes, in such a scenario, where techs are already researched by CIVs, there is a bug in civ. you have to set all religions otherwise they all get founded in a certain turn. I would be happy if I could solve this.
But put the Christianity into Jerusalem in 1300 BC, I think players will understand. Better than founding anywhere without reason.

Is there any hope to see BUG integrated in PAE ?

Anyway, best mod ever

Hey Pie & Keinpferd,

Thanks for the help.

Yes, I guess it's a scenario rather than a mod-mod, as I haven't changed any xml or python yet (I'll get around to that next:D).

I'm actually just modifying the standard 4000BC scenario rather than creating a 1300BC scenario. The religions don't get founded all in one turn. As far as I can tell, Greek religion gets founded normally, but Zoroastrianism gets founded by anyone and Christianity always turns up around 1300BC and always--at least so far--founded by Xerxes, though I've only played a few times, so that could just be coincidence.

But, basically, from what you say it sounds like what I need to do is remove all techs from all civs and religion should then work normally. Is that right?

Oh, I also wanted to ask--does the mod use a naming script so that cities founded in certain areas are founded with their historical names?

Thanks again for the help guys.

@Yerand: thanks! I am sorry, BUG will not implemented. Not by me ;( I tried, but I failed. Because there are some changes in the Main Interface and Pedia by me (showing the icons of required religion or corporation in the building or unit pedias), I couldn't just drag and drop the BUG files. Sry. Perhaps a specialist can merge this in future.

@loseth: remove all techs. yes. try it. (save a copy before). Please begin with the scenario and don't change any xml files. Wait until the new patch comes out. this will include some xml corrections.

No, there is no naming script, because this mod can also be played with random maps.

For you 1300 Scen: if you need certain leaderheads or tribes (CIVs), let me know, I am willing to add them into the new patch.

@loseth: remove all techs. yes. try it. (save a copy before). Please begin with the scenario and don't change any xml files. Wait until the new patch comes out. this will include some xml corrections.

Thanks, Pie. I'll try taking out the techs and wait for the patch for xml changes.



For you 1300 Scen: if you need certain leaderheads or tribes (CIVs), let me know, I am willing to add them into the new patch.

I'm actually not doing a 1300 scenario. I'm just changing the basic 4000BC scenario. But if you're offering to put leaderheads & stuff in... :D

I'd love to have a leaderhead & UUs for Lydia included (I think TAM has them). ;)

Thanks again for help Pie!

P.S. Is it still possible to include only 18 civs per scenario?

New poster here. Hi all.

I really like this MOD. There's lots of changes that make the game better than the original Civ4. I especially like the anti-SOD feature; that units take damage when large stacks are in enemy territory.

Unfortunately, there must be a bug in there. My game crashes. The crash happens in a specific turn during the AI movement. Game stops working and exits back to Windows.

I'm using BTS 3.19 with a Vista machine. The scenario is 4000 BC 12 civs, on a standard size map. I can't get past turn 382. Is there anything I can do to?

hi cityraider,

please try to replace the EventManager-file in Mods/PieAncientEuropeIII/Assets/Python with the file in Posting 598:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10108376&postcount=598

Several small bugs will be changed in the new patch.
The patch will take some time because of a new main discussion in the German forum about Babylon and Sumer...

But there will be added a new narrow valley map with randomized bonus resources and perhaps even the 300 BC Szenario!

@Loseth: Lydia. hm. Lydos and Croisos? Yes, 18 CIVs max.

That worked. Thanks.

@Loseth: Lydia. hm. Lydos and Croisos? Yes, 18 CIVs max.

Yeah, Creosus would be my choice. I think he's the most iconic Lydian leader.

PS Thanks for the tip with the techs: removing them has fixed the religion problem.


I've got a new question now, though. :D

I noticed that the worldbuilder CTDs if I try to place Germanic mercenaries on the map. Since I've taken the Germanics out as a civ, I'd like to include them on the map as a source of mercenaries/recruits. I'll probably treat the British the same way, as they were an important source of recruits for the Roman armies, but not really a viable civ. What do I need to change so that 'Germanic/British warriors' can be placed in the same way that Assyrian warriors can?

this is XML modding. you'll need these files:
Terrain/BonusInfos
Text/TextInfos
Text/TextStrategy
Text/TextPedia
Units/UnitInfos

BonusInfos: copy the assyrian bonus and rename to eg british
Texts: copy the assyrian bonus texts and add your english one
UnitInfos: Give your warrior the british bonus as required resource

I hope this is it. perhaps the texts of the unit should be changed into british mercenary. (name, strategy and pedia!) if you got it, send me your english texts per PM, I will translate them into german.

@Pie

Thanks for the tips on modding mercenaries. I'll probably do that with a couple of other civs as well (Iberians & maybe Scythians). I'll send them to you for translation when I'm done, but I think I'll wait for your patch to do it.

Are you still taking requests for more civs? Another that I thought of from TAM that would be cool is Assyria.

Thanks again for the tips.

:D You can read my mind....

I just had an interesting thought: in the ancient world (indeed, in any era), trade was a major agent in the spread of culture and technology. I wonder if it would make sense that, each time a trade mission is performed in a city, the city receives a small amount of the originator's influence/culture as well as a few culture points. In addition, the civ could receive a few tech points.

I think this is SDK. SDK changes mean no mac compatibility. Sry.

The new version of PAE III is now downloadable! Enjoy!

Changes:
-) legionary without added costs and cheaper
-) Small Python changes
-) Changes in the conzepts
-) Onager gets movement so that AI can attack
-) New attack properties to siege units
-) Lumber camp provides +1 Prod and now +2 Gold
-) Chariot archers max. 25% damage due to ranged combat
-) Disc chariots moved to correct tech (Chariots)
-) Unitstack-Rebel warning with +8% range (previous +5%)
-) Changes to walls and skins.
-) Better river skins
-) Spezialist stacker corrected
-) Auxiliary units 50% cheaper, pedia changes
-) small XML changes and text changes
-) Hittis start position update (to weaken them)
-) ships got adjusted (attack/movement/cargo), found a XML-error at the quinquireme
-) bigger and stronger ships need a harbor now
-) found an upgrade-error at the mounted auxiliary units. can always be built now
-) Civics adjusted
-) Promotions adjusted
-) Mounted units get less withdrawal bonus and do not have any defense bonus (cataphract in cities) and they get -50% city strength instead of -25%
-) Error in province rebellion and city conquering corrected
-) Palace is resistent against natural desaster
-) More Roman mercenaries buildable and cheaper (per round)
-) Hethit threemanchariot is able to ranged combat
-) Small building changes
-) plague gets more dangerous again
-) cities can be disbanded with a pop of 2
-) With the option "No Events" all disaster will be disabled (this includes fog and sand storm).
-) Some changes on L- (large) and s- (small) maps. Macedonia gets open in north and west. Thracia gets more open.
-) Forest, hills and desert promotions adjusted
-) All chariots adjusted. Max ST of 5 but +50% against melee and mounted units. The special chariots (Egypt, Hitti, Persia) get drill and can be promoted in this section.
-) Axemen and spearmen get +50% against melee and mounted units instead +25%. Axemen will not be upgraded by shield bearer anymore and can be built all the time.
-) New unit: Boar. ST 3, lots of food, can only defend and moves 2 plots
-) Legions get promoted with drill.
-) New symbol with christian revolts
-) The first writing techs cannot be conquered.
-) A new (fictive) scenario map (Valley) with random CIVs, starting positions and bonus allocation: a narrow valley within a big mountain range.
-) Skins of disc chariots made by Bakuel
-) Hoplit transparency fault fixed
-) Sumeria gets a new UB (instead of Small Oracle)
-) Map at Sumeria adjusted.
-) New Civs: Assyria (Sargon II) and Lydia (Croesus)
-) Changeover/Rearrangement of some CIVs and their leader: Gaul (former celts, Brennus and Vercingetorix), Libyer (former Berbers, Schischak I)
-) New early special building (former rock-cut tombs, now stone tombs, urnfield, kurgane and royal tombs)
-) On 18 CIVs L-Maps the Babylonians has been replaced with the Assyrians.
-) UB of Lydia: Guest and gambling house (instead of taberna)
-) New interface (background, gold and cult icon)

Superb. Downloading. :D

Hey, I've played previous versions of the mod and loved it, now I'm looking forward to playing the 3rd.

However, while the mod itself seems to be working fine, the interface has completely vanished.The main menu is fine, the starting map is visible, keyboard commands work and I can move units, select the city map/move workers on tiles with the mouse, but none of the toolbars or info boxes seem to be there. The only bit I get is the dawn of man start box, though the same seems to open in a blank technology adviser screen which I have to exit before seeing that. Any ideas what might be wrong?

Hi Jakius!

Did you copy this version into the original BTS folder?
Because of custom interface changes you'll HAVE TO COPY the file into the original BTS folder "???/Civilization 4/Beyond the sword/Mods/"

If you have a previous version in the "My Documents" folder, please delete it, otherwise this version will be loaded!

Yes, its in the C:/Program Files. . . properly. Nothing appears to be in my documents.

C:\Program Files (x86)\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods is the complete path, if it helps.

Then it's correctly installed.

Do you have an active custom mod like BUG ?
I think with BUG it doesn't work. I do not have and others in the german forum mentioned that problem.

Perhaps try to download again or try to install again.

Checked, no custom mods and trying reinstalls/downloads with no luck. And I really want to play this mod too :(

Strange. Unpacked you have 5352 Files with 287MB ? Perhaps the download file is corrupt. Does anybody have a similar problem ?

However, while the mod itself seems to be working fine, the interface has completely vanished.The main menu is fine, the starting map is visible, keyboard commands work and I can move units, select the city map/move workers on tiles with the mouse, but none of the toolbars or info boxes seem to be there. The only bit I get is the dawn of man start box, though the same seems to open in a blank technology adviser screen which I have to exit before seeing that. Any ideas what might be wrong?

For what it's worth - and since pie does not seem to have a ready answer - this looks similar to the problem faced by people trying to play the official mod "Fall from Heaven: Age of Ice" under Vista. Do you have Vista?

A file needed to be written/modified by the mod when loading and Vista would not allow it, then the rest of the mod would not load correctly (the interface). Is it the case in your mod, pie?

Solution: change the security settings for your CivIV folder and authorize Write for you as user.

Hope it helps.

Yes! This could be true! I added the OOSLogging Tool, which writes in an error file, when an error occurs. I just need this one to check the simultan multiplayer problem. when this is done, I can delete this tool again. I just forgot to put this one out in the current download version. sorry.

but try to change the security level in your Civ Folder. First try it with the PAE folder. that's saver.

Thank you isenchine !!!

I have Windows 7, I'll try screwing around with the security stuff a bit and see if it works. Knock on wood.

Strange. Unpacked you have 5352 Files with 287MB ? Perhaps the download file is corrupt. Does anybody have a similar problem ?

ah hah! I only have 5,326 files unpacked. 521 folders and 285MB.

The security bit did not work but it seems we found the problem.

only 2mb... oh wait, I just added new things (animals) in the meanwhile.... so I think, I have more than you. that's ok. hm.

I would say, wait for the next version, which soon will be available. Then I put this writing tool out and we try again.

Weird. I did a good old fashioned uninstalled/reinstalled of the whole game and it works fine now. All lovely, though I have to remember that my money isnt infinite. :P

One suggestion though. There should be the cap on the amount of slaves you can capture in a single turn, and a limit to how much a city can be enslaved. When taking a large city or stack of workers hidden in a barbarian city it can become logistically infuriating to move and guard all them. If one of them rebels quickly then it makes you just want to toss the computer out the window.

Weird. I did a good old fashioned uninstalled/reinstalled of the whole game and it works fine now. All lovely, though I have to remember that my money isnt infinite. :P

Good news.

One suggestion though. There should be the cap on the amount of slaves you can capture in a single turn, and a limit to how much a city can be enslaved. When taking a large city or stack of workers hidden in a barbarian city it can become logistically infuriating to move and guard all them. If one of them rebels quickly then it makes you just want to toss the computer out the window.
:D This is a big and a very realistic feature in this mod. If you aren't able to manage the mass of slaves you've captured, it has to be done what other leaders in history did: it isn't really easy for me to say that, but those times had been very, very hard: kill them. Hang'em up before they could be dangerous. Don't put too much into your cities and watch the revolt panel in the city screen. I am sorry, but sometimes you'll get into such situations ;)

Or if Convenient sell them off so some unwitting sap :D

Would you be able to post the .rar? Right now only the .exe is posted, which won't open on a Mac.

@Jakius: you can sell them in foreign cities (like the merchant) ;) the question is, would you come so far with thousands of slaves :D

@empireruler: oh, I didn't know. of course, I'll do that tomorrow...

Okay I found an awesome trick to annoy rivals. :D

1) Capture Slaves
2) Deploy them to someone you have open borders with
3) Wait. if they rebel, profit!

I am playing this for the first time and I must say, that this is one of the best mods you can download. I always wanted a mod like this!

Thank you very much!

I got some news for all of you: PAE IV is in progress and it really will become a little bit better!

Thank you very much!

I got some news for all of you: PAE IV is in progress and it really will become a little bit better!

:drool:
Can't wait!!! :bowdown:

You make civ life worth it since I can't get ciV. ^_^

I loved the latest version PIE, especially the mapscript. I want to use that as a mapscript for Rife, but I don't have a clue how to make that work. I'll probably bug the hamster about it. ANYHOO. Awesome update.

If you mean the py-Maps, you have to delete all entries about FEATURE_SWAMP.
If you mean the scenario-map you'll have to put out all territorian bonuses and swamp.

Hi Pie, a lot of time without read the forum, how goes the Hellas modmod and the 300 BC scenario? Any news?

The Hellas Modmod will be updated till Easter with parts of the new PAE IV version.
The new PAE IV will be completed at Easter. That's the target.
The 300 BC Scenario will be part of PAE IV.

PAE IV features:
-) Savanna
-) Desertification
-) Interface updates
-) New civic structure and a brand new civic feature
-) New tech tree
-) Lots of small updates (new skins, units, leaders, civs)
-) Preparation of an Alexander Scenario with Indian tribes.
-) Partisan feature
-) Maybe a new vassal feature (HI can get Vassal, KI can stab the hegemon in back) -just in planning and testing if this is possible (without SDK) ...

Hello people of Civfanatics and hello Pie. Well, first of all I must say that this site is an incredible source of knowledge about Civilization and, of course, fun; and, well, I don't know why I didn't registered before, despite it's years I hang around. I guess there's a time for everything.

Second: Pie, your mod is an amazing gameplay experience. I think of all games I played so far, your mod is the closest thing to an "ancient times" gaming experience. The first few games, during the learning curve, I learned to appreciate all the small details in your mod, also the few that in the beginning i found somehow irritating (by the way, you should explain some mechanics a bit better in the civilopedia). And when I became aware of all the concepts of your mod I started to enjoy the big picture, the epic measure of time. Now, I could list all the features I like but they're almost all the features of the mod, so I'm going to tell you what I don't like:

Religion: I think the missionary system doesn't make sense for ancient times, neither the malus for a "foreign" religion in your cities (well it works in some ways... but about this later). First of all, I think every new founded city should have the religion of the country it belongs to, at least the cities founded by settlers (emigrants on the other hand are discontent citizens and you can imagine they are more susceptible to other cultures. So maybe in the case of emigrants there could be a possibility that the new city doesn't have any religion). (I'm talking with no real knowledge of what is technically possible or not, so forgive me if i say bull**).

Actually I imagine a religion system without missionaries and based more on influence. For example if you found a city close to a phoenician border, inevitably this city will have influences from this religion and convert (also) to the phoenician religion. Of course religions are a great metaphor for culture in the game and surely having 2 religions in a city means more than simply having 2 religions (in Civ IV at least). But even if "tolerance" is not really an ancient concept, you could really say that a kind of religious tolerance existed in ancient times and in particular for the romans it became a strategic key to the control of the empire, to the point that having more than one religion was a bonus and not a malus. Of course the christian religion changed the rules of the game for the romans. I was surprised to see religious ejectors in your mod because they have a so middle age flavour and don't make sense for ancient times, but they surely make sense as christian persecutors (or a kinder name), meaning they could eject the epidemic and disrupting christian religion from the cities. I guess I can simplify what i mean: i think only christian religion should cause unhapiness (or such unhapiness) in a city with another state religion. And only christian religion should have missionaries. Also, more than the other religions should spread fast & furious around the countries.

Having said that, I'm very happy with the other concepts about religion. For example, I learned what means not having the olympic gods in a game in which i played a celtic roman empire (maybe you should know that I played extensively your mod but only with greeks, romans and egyptians), etc. For the rest, I think religions are very well developed. The only thing I missed is a general religion, a powerless religion gaming wise, that you could call "cult of the dead" and that could be the religion of people who can't found a religion (like romans) but this is something not really necessary, only something that jumped in my mind.

Now, about religious unhapiness and ejection, actually this system (except for the already quoted christian religion) could make really sense with some cults. For example "dionysism" was really disrupting in the beginnings so I can imagine something like this: another tech called "dithyrambos" that precede "drama". If you discover "dithyrambos" you found dionysism. I don't know if a cult could spread but at this point dionysism should spread very fast in your country and cause unhappiness in the cities. If you need, you can eject it. If not you shall wait to discover drama to stop the unhappiness effect. Well, just an idea. But, besides my fantasies, remember that some cults or mysteries were often the grandparents of heresies.

Other things I have in mind just now. The very beginning of the game is fun but a bit mechanical. I don't know if this will unbalance the game but would be nice if with mysticism you can produce a kind of ancient hero (a very strong unit against animals and barbarians for example) a kind of great general-unit (or maybe warriors can have a special promotion). I don't know really, only I feel the beginning is a little weak in comparison with the rest of the game, is a bit flavourless, still fun don't misunderstand me, but not epic. Maybe I'm crazy but I would like to feel I'm going out in the unknown and kill the "great beast" bringing my people out of the darkness and fear. Still the great number of animals is a damn good idea.

Collapse. I experienced different collapses (unhappines, economy, plague) in the game. They are fine and I don't mind if I played many hours and then suddenly I lose because of a plague. It could happen. It happened. It's great actually. But what is not great (meaning not fun) is when a plague start to spread in the cities where it just went away. That is really annoying because you can only skip turns and turns until the hope is gone and... with no hope in a game there is most certainly no fun. (Also why plague don't spread in neighbour cities of the other "players"?) And talking about collapse, I think resources should/could run out. I know this is a risk maybe bigger for the fun than a sporadic plague but wars were fought for resources and civilizations fell because they exhausted or lost resources. Well, at least in the very beginning of times.

I think I will stop here. The problem with such a good work like yours is that is inspiring, so i renew my compliments for your mod and I thank you because I can stand Civ V and your mod made me fall in love again with Civ IV.

Hi hotimenhumeis,

thank you very much, I know, this mod is inspiring, that's why we are at version III and a forth one will follow. To your post:

-) First of all, I think every new founded city should have the religion of the country it belongs to, at least the cities founded by settlers (emigrants on the other hand are discontent citizens and you can imagine they are more susceptible to other cultures.
To set a religion, when founding a city, would be possible, but I can't sperate from settler or emigrant. But I think, this is not really problematic because your second city will hardly get another religion than yours and when you're on the way to build a new settler to found a third city, I'd build a missionary unit in the second city to escort the new settler. it's more funny that if everything goes automatically... I think.

-) Actually I imagine a religion system without missionaries and based more on influence. For example if you found a city close to a phoenician border, inevitably this city will have influences from this religion and convert (also) to the phoenician religion.
This could be problematic, because CIV doesn't spead a religion to a city where a reli already exists. So the automatic influence would only work on non-religious cities. That wouldn't be good. And how to spread the phoenician religion to carthage, if there is no missionary... the other thing, where I am very proud of: As Rome, you simply can choose your future religion: found a city in north, you'll get celtic, found a city in east (Tarentum) you'll get the greek one. That's a phenomenon that works fine! Try it!

-) religious tolerance existed in ancient times and in particular for the romans it became a strategic key to the control of the empire
ehm yes but no.... the regime was free religious but not the citizens. and this part of civic was in later times, as you said, roman empire. in the beginning, I swear they bear hatred agains the celts (brennus). and religion is the only way to manage this. but you won't be disappointed, because in PAE IV there will be a new CIVIC that ignores the differences of religion like in later roman times.... I know that the romans used this as strategic key, the greeks too later on, and the plan of PAE IV is, to make such strategies possible!

-) I was surprised to see religious ejectors in your mod because they have a so middle age flavour and don't make sense for ancient times, but they surely make sense as christian persecutors (or a kinder name), meaning they could eject the epidemic and disrupting christian religion from the cities.
Hm. No. The christianity was the main religion for the voiceless people especially slaves. And slaves were everywhere. Christianity teached to be free. Everyone. This was the main reason, why the christianity could survive all ejections. and after the christianity got state religion all other cults got banned... (think of Constantine)
So there is a need to make it possible to eject all religions ;).

-) And only christian religion should have missionaries. Also, more than the other religions should spread fast & furious around the countries.
The players of the german forum an I like to missionize cities and this should not be allowed for only one reli. It's stategic fun. Something to play with... during boring times ;)

-) The only thing I missed is a general religion, a powerless religion gaming wise, that you could call "cult of the dead" and that could be the religion of people who can't found a religion (like romans) but this is something not really necessary, only something that jumped in my mind.
Not only the romans had this cult, almost everybody. What is the advantage of a religion: 1 happiness and 1 culture. The cult of the dead will be part of PAE IV but only in form of happiness. I don't want that every CIV gets 3 plot cities in early times... only advanced civs and they will get special buildings for that. So this gerneral "cult" will be implemented as CIVIC in PAE IV.

-) Now, about religious unhapiness and ejection, actually this system (except for the already quoted christian religion) could make really sense with some cults. For example "dionysism" was really disrupting in the beginnings so I can imagine something like this: another tech called "dithyrambos" that precede "drama". If you discover "dithyrambos" you found dionysism. I don't know if a cult could spread but at this point dionysism should spread very fast in your country and cause unhappiness in the cities. If you need, you can eject it. If not you shall wait to discover drama to stop the unhappiness effect. Well, just an idea. But, besides my fantasies, remember that some cults or mysteries were often the grandparents of heresies.
Dithyrambos is a good idea. But it isn't possible to give a cult negative and suddenly positive aspects nor to eject a cult.

-) Other things I have in mind just now. The very beginning of the game is fun but a bit mechanical.
This is because PAE starts at 4000BC. At those times the advanced CIVs began to exist. Would I start at 3000 BC it would be more exciting ;)

-) I don't know if this will unbalance the game but would be nice if with mysticism you can produce a kind of ancient hero (a very strong unit against animals and barbarians for example) a kind of great general-unit (or maybe warriors can have a special promotion).
No, because my intention is, to keep all exploring efforts useless. I don't like that the gauls have contact with the egypt 3500 BC !! That's unrealistic but this fact is - in my opinion - a weak point in CIV. You have to wait for better weapons (bronze age) then you've got your skilled warriors for that.

-) I lose because of a plague. It could happen. It happened. It's great actually. But what is not great (meaning not fun) is when a plague start to spread in the cities where it just went away.
;) sorry.. but don't give up! :D that the plague spread in the same cities again is just a random issue. Try to avoid plague! Plague was a very, very big problem not only in ancient times.

-) (Also why plague don't spread in neighbour cities of the other "players"?)
It does... but it's just a randomized thing...

-) And talking about collapse, I think resources should/could run out.
I think, there is a CIV chance of 0,001 %. An event perhaps, I don't exactly know. But running out of bonuses will make gameplay harder (fun-level for builders?)!

-) I think I will stop here. The problem with such a good work like yours is that is inspiring, so i renew my compliments for your mod and I thank you because I can stand Civ V and your mod made me fall in love again with Civ IV.
Thanks again and go on... :D

Pie, thank you for answering me and for explaining to me the technical limits of the game.

By the way, religion was rarely an issue in ancient times. I understand (as i also stated in my previous post) that religion in your mod is simply a system to exalt cultural differences, still i think it causes too many problems in a world in which commerce and cultural exchange (or, on the other hand, isolation and distances) were so important in determining the nature of "international" relations. Anyways, this is a problem of Civ IV, not your mod in particular: religions in the game force your civ to have relationships with the other civs.

On christianity it seems to me that we actually agree (in my idea the ejector was a metaphor for the persecutions but it would have worked only if Christianity would have continued to spread back in the cities, and i see, as you teach me, that that mechanic is impossible in Civ IV).

Hurray for missionaries!

My idea of a "cult of the dead" was indeed inspired by the fact that every ancient culture, of course, have such a primitive "religion" (cerimonial burial in the old genealogical tech tree of Civ II was indeed the milestone that signed this very "discovery"). I'm happy to know that this will be implemented as a civic.

I think there is still hope to enjoy also the first turns. Maybe someday someone will find a good solution/idea for those. But it's not important, as i told you, mine is only a feeling of mild dissatisfaction for the first turns.

Exploring is an effort only on a random map. Probably for me is not so important to explore in the very first turns because, playing always a scenario, I normally know where the other civs are and huts anyway appears later (or so it seems to me). Actually, as i already told you, I like very much the concept of isolation and danger in the very beginning and the necessity to stay "in the hut". I only miss some action.

Keep up the good work!

Well, I know, there are some more bugs in CIV that makes modding very hard...

Hm... just to make the beginning more exciting.... hm... I think, it is a good start for beginners, who will get contact with all the features step by step. first the animals, then the tech tree, the civics, the disasters, the slaves,... I just played couple of turns (till alphabet) and I just didn't use science prod in the city list. there is enough to do with the first buildings, the first workers, improvements, some warriors, religion and the national oracle....

but it's true. there isn't much action. but who said, that there was much action before bronze age? I think, the period between 4000 and 3000 BC is the silence before the storm.... :D

And yes, we will keep up this work and make it a little bit better in PAE IV...

Religion: I think the missionary system doesn't make sense for ancient times, neither the malus for a "foreign" religion in your cities (well it works in some ways... but about this later).[…]

Actually I imagine a religion system without missionaries and based more on influence. For example if you found a city close to a phoenician border, inevitably this city will have influences from this religion and convert (also) to the phoenician religion. Of course religions are a great metaphor for culture in the game and surely having 2 religions in a city means more than simply having 2 religions (in Civ IV at least). But even if "tolerance" is not really an ancient concept, you could really say that a kind of religious tolerance existed in ancient times and in particular for the romans it became a strategic key to the control of the empire, to the point that having more than one religion was a bonus and not a malus. Of course the christian religion changed the rules of the game for the romans. I was surprised to see religious ejectors in your mod because they have a so middle age flavour and don't make sense for ancient times, but they surely make sense as christian persecutors (or a kinder name), meaning they could eject the epidemic and disrupting christian religion from the cities. I guess I can simplify what i mean: i think only christian religion should cause unhapiness (or such unhapiness) in a city with another state religion. And only christian religion should have missionaries. Also, more than the other religions should spread fast & furious around the countries.[…]

The only thing I missed is a general religion, a powerless religion gaming wise, that you could call "cult of the dead" and that could be the religion of people who can't found a religion (like romans) but this is something not really necessary, only something that jumped in my mind.[…]

For example "dionysism" was really disrupting[…] If not you shall wait to discover drama to stop the unhappiness effect. Well, just an idea. But, besides my fantasies, remember that some cults or mysteries were often the grandparents of heresies.

Other things I have in mind just now. The very beginning of the game is fun but a bit mechanical. I don't know if this will unbalance the game but would be nice if with mysticism you can produce a kind of ancient hero (a very strong unit against animals and barbarians for example) a kind of great general-unit (or maybe warriors can have a special promotion). I don't know really, only I feel the beginning is a little weak in comparison with the rest of the game, is a bit flavourless, still fun don't misunderstand me, but not epic. Maybe I'm crazy but I would like to feel I'm going out in the unknown and kill the "great beast" bringing my people out of the darkness and fear. Still the great number of animals is a damn good idea.

Absolutely right, the concept of Olympian missionaries is annoyingly unancient! But you know, the whole religious game complex of BTS (with its huge impact on diplo, relations, wars, etc.) isn't really made for the ancient period. While in Europe of the pre-modern-enlightened era, 80% (rough estimate) of all wars were religious wars or backed up by religious reasons, in antiquity none at all was fought because they didn't like each other's gods. Rudeness towards other people's gods (like the Marduk statue being torn down by the Persians or Salomo's Temple destroyed by the Romans) was meant as a means to break resistance, not as a sign of disdain of the inferior beliefs of the opponent. Thus, the BTS-messages, when some leader tells you, how religiously misled you are and that you better change quickly, are deeply disturbing PAE's otherwise quite believable ancient atmosphere. Sadly, without a bold SDK redesign of that part of the game, even a Mozart among the modders won't be able to do anything (in Python) about that. Therefore we have to put up with the Celtic missionaries :eek: as an important BTS game mechanism regardless of atmosphere and historical truth.

Cult of the dead: interesting proposal. I could also imagine (and had linked to the guy who came up with the idea first) an individual local pantheon for all civs as their religious starting situation, that would later grow into a "state religion". I mean by individual local pantheon Python-generated different names for each civ just like the already implemented (Python-generated) individual names for the matriarchy cults. It's always the same cultrix unit or cult emissary unit, but, as a player, you simply get to read the appropriate name. (Very neat detail of the mod:), I think.)

Disrupting Dionysos-cult: You seem to know more about it than I, what was so disrupting or more disrupting than the obscureness of other mysteries? The only evidence I can think of is the reluctant king of Thebes, Pentheus, who was then slaughtered by the dionysically moved maenads. – Some cultural techs leading to drama is also good, for the tech tree is a bit one-dimensional exactly in that period (and actually a little earlier than that period).

Early game boringness: not if you play for the first few times. Later, it needs more action. In my modmod, I added Stone Age techs and a hunter unit, but I also like your idea of a hero unit (like Oedipus against the sphinx) who leads his superstitious people into clear daylight:p. But you would have to make up such a hero unit for the Skythians, Numidians and Nubians… and locally varying monsters… I doubt, that Pie is really keen on any mythical elements in his ancient ultra-realism.

About the Dionysos cult maybe I'm too much "philosophical" and too few "historical" but we know for sure that what is told by Euripides is in part a mythological figure, in part an allusion to a historical reality. The beginning of Dionysism is partly obscure but, for what we can argue (and not only from Euripides), in a genealogical perspective it signs a phase of adaption of the greek civilization to the measure of the city. Surely "disrupting" was a wrong word (right for Euripedes though) but the original Dyonisism could be imagined as an unbalancing period for the future city-state. I guess, I talked about dyonisism because it can represent "universally" and in a very generic way this passage, not talking about the fact that is foundamental for the birth of tragedy (or drama if you prefer): and so we have the domestication of the city and the domestication of the words in one and only cultural process! (If you are interested, one of the best texts about the argument is "Dionysos", written by Henri Jeanmaire).

I understand very well the perspective of Pie about the first turns (and also, as i said for the religion, I understand that originally the problem belongs to Civ IV and not to the mod), but still (and I won't change idea until someone comes with a very good argument), this is a game and I think with some ideas in the first turns Pie's mod would be almost perfect (already is, actually, but let's say a bit more "almost perfect"). The hero idea is only a metaphor for, i don't know, a hunter who retrieves food killing a bear (the beast) and allows your city to grow a little faster, a warrior who defeats a small settlement (hut) and conquers a new (basic) technology. I think, what I personally miss, is that kind of moment where you have a small acceleration and, because of this, the story you are telling in your mind while playing becomes suddenly exciting, something to escape the repetitive experience of the first turns. but in the end they're so fast and mechanical that the problem doesn't almost exist.

The Pantheon idea is very good. As far as there's no malus for having a foreign religion in your city (until you actually have a state religion, which anyway is good to have 'cause it gives you more advantages) any idea that gives a kind of ancient religion to the various civs is good for me. It is also a good strategic device because you can use it to delay the adoption of a state religion or you can roleplay a civ with no state religion (with or without malus second the civic you adopt).

[…]: and so we have the domestication of the city and the domestication of the words in one and only cultural process! (If you are interested, one of the best texts about the argument is "Dionysos", written by Henri Jeanmaire).

I am. The thought of "domestication of words" coinciding with the "domestication of the city" in one dionysic process sounds striking, without my knowing anything of Henri Jeanmaire's theory. How would that translate into PAE? Few rounds of unhappiness, when the cult newly appears?

[…] As far as there's no malus for having a foreign religion in your city (until you actually have a state religion, which anyway is good to have 'cause it gives you more advantages) any idea that gives a kind of ancient religion to the various civs is good for me. It is also a good strategic device because you can use it to delay the adoption of a state religion or you can roleplay a civ with no state religion (with or without malus second the civic you adopt).

Yes, and it could possibly go well together with Pie's coming up Python feature of civics interrelating with each other. That means, in the religious branch of the civics, there could be programmed an effect of sticking to the initial "starting religion" (=local pantheon) in relation to other civics, so it would encourage picking a peculiar civic combination as another playing style option. Unfortunately, the civic system of BTS doesn't allow much regarding cults, but with religions a few more things seem to be doable, and maybe that's a way to make up for the unancient side of religion in an ancient-mod.

The hero idea is only a metaphor for, i don't know, a hunter who retrieves food killing a bear (the beast) and allows your city to grow a little faster,
But this is already included in PAE III. Every unit that defeats an animals in the surrounding of a city (I think 4 plots) and after the Knowledge of Hunting(!) brings more food to this city...

try to get some archers to weaken the animal via ranged attack.. that helps!

About the dionysos: I can't follow you anymore :D
But there will be a Civic called (Local Cults) which adds +1 happiness to all cities. that's the same effect of a building. and I think, a building is the wrong way, because ancient cults don't need "tempes". they didn't have....

@Keinpferd

I don't know how to translate it in PAE. But in your modmod one city (Thebes?) could maybe fall into chaos for few turns or all the cities could be affected by unhappiness if you look for a more global effect. I actually played only one time your modmod to have a clear opinion. I will try it some more times the next days.

@pie_at

Pie I thank you for all your advices but it seems to me that you have the impression I played your mod a couple of times and only at Chieftain or that I have no idea of the numerous details of your work (which I appreciate very very much). We clearly don't understand each other about the first turns but it's really not important at all, let's close this discussion forever. I'm really looking forward for the next version.

hm.. yes I misunderstood, but if you use ranged combat, there is no need to have a strong hero unit... I think.

And the reason why at the beginning, there is nothing then lemming hunting: there are no masses of buildings to build, animals are too strong to just manage them with one unit, so that you have to build units all the time. that's the circulation of early gameplay. build warriors and hope they bring food into your village: and believe me, this was the only strategy in neolithic times over 10000 years! I know, this looks shiftless but although it is a boring era, I think I could copy those times quite good.. so like you said, that's the only calm era of the whole mod...

I appreciate this time and concentrate in techs I really need (eg for improvements), earning money with pushing the tax control over and over again...

But I could put some more barbarian warriors around, so that there is a need to defend your first city... if you agree. But a hero unit would allow the KI to explore the whole world in a short space of time...

But a hero unit would allow the KI to explore the whole world in a short space of time...

That's exactly what's happening in my modmod, the AI sends the hunter-hero unit exploring. On the densly populated Greece map, they don't get very far, though, as long as they can't have open boarders agreements with other civs, so the unrealistic and undesirable effect of exploring the whole world during neolithic times simply doesn't occure. But on an 18-civs large PAE map the Vandals would indeed be meeting Cleopatra much too soon with that hero unit.

I didn't keep going on on my neolithic additions in the Hellas modmod, because I felt, if Pie doesn't buy it like that, no further need to talk him into it. Maybe I exaggerated a bit and added too much stuff, but some of the pre-bronze techs there could very well be in PAE, as well, for they bring to consciousness which steps were essential and necessary on the path of pre-ancient civilization. They cast a light on the preconditions that made ancient civilizations possible, and they don't particularly bore me;).

Barbarian units would be great! You can earn experience with your warriors and "then" go out and explore the world. Also I think, as in your concept, that barbarians in the beginning would slow down even more exploration and force you to stay close to the city to protect the nest.

Now Pie, I have an idea in my mind that I already have the suspect it's impossible. I don't even know if is stupid or clever gaming wise. Is it possible to make all the terrains produce damages (maybe 5%?) to the units unless you have a specific tech or promotion? That would give realism to the attrition of war (when you move large armies through the lands) and that would be another way to limit early exploration to the surroundings of your city.

when will be released version 4 ?

ok Hoti, more barbarian warriors will be included and your proposal of 5% damage until a specific Tech is possible and I'll discuss this in the german forum... thx!

@Keinpferd: I disagree with your point of view that I ignore everything at once ;). I think of new ideas and suggestions over days, let them flow into my brain very slowly ;)
and because I'll change the whole tech tree again for version IV, I will have a look at your tree and yes, when you say, this adds more fun, I will implement them all...

@Darck: Eastern is the goal.

Great mod and so much better than official ancient mods. I noticed you probably could have added The hall of 100 columns which I believe has been made as Darius' Palace to download already.

thx stolenrays,

do you mean as wonder (zoroastrism required), UB for persians or shrine of zoroastrism ?

I was more thinking of a Wonder or maybe unique palace for the Persians. The throne room was to entertain guests and was full of 100 columns in Persepolis. It was made of stone and I cedar columns.

I'd prefer to implement it as unique building (national wonder) for the Persians. Ok.

Awesome mod Pie! I played version 1 quite some time ago and enjoyed it and stumbled upon your mod again and am really, really impressed with the progress you've made. I've been addicted to it for the last 2 weeks! :crazyeye:

A few ideas/suggestions/comments:

I. As it is now, I feel like merchants are a bit overpowered. I can easily get production to the point where I can pop out a merchant in multiple cities every turn and create a train of merchants to the nearest AI city and net thousands of gold over the course of 10 to 15 turns. A few ideas on fixes if you think it's a problem:
1. Increase the hammer cost of merchants.
2. Decrease the amount of gold you get for a successful trade.
3. Make it a National Unit where you can only produce 3 or 4 at a time.

II. I'm not sure what all you have planned for the version 4, but I feel as though some of the civilizations are a bit lacking in content. When I play the Greeks, I have special civics I can use and a host of buildings and cults to mess around with. With the Egyptians and many Mesopotamian civs there are a lot of special buildings and units. Yet the Dacians, Illyrians and many others have perhaps a single building or a unit and it doesn't make them nearly as interesting to play.

III. I absolutely love playing the scenarios, especially the 18 civ, greek city-states scenario! I would love to see more of them. It would also be great if it were possible to pick which leader you wanted to play with for the scenarios. For example, being able to play the Celts as Vercingetorix rather than always having to be Brennus.

IV. As it is now I think the Celtic, Nordic and Phoenician religions are a bit underwhelming and could use a bit more content to make it worthwhile to keep these religions. It's far better to go out of your way to get, say, the Greek religion because it offers better bonuses.

One idea that I was able to come up with was a building or Wonder for the Nordic religion called "Thor's Oak" or "Donar's Oak" drawing from the myth of Saint Boniface cutting down an oak tree sacred to germanic pagans. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donar_Oak) I think it fits with the antagonism Christianity has with other religions in your mod.

It's likely that there were a lot of oak tree's considered to be Thor's so that would justify making it a normal building, that could be built in any city with Nordic mythology. It could also be a religion specific wonder that can only be built once. Another alternative to actually "building" the tree is that if you are have Norse Mythology as your state religion, there is a chance for an event to take place in one of your cities that creates a "Thor's Oak" building in your city. This event could happen once as a religious wonder in the Nordic holy city or any other city with the Nordic religion, or it could be an event that could happen more than once in multiple cities. The bonus for the building could be for happiness, combat XP... whatever you think.


Anyway, keep up the great work!

Thx Legba!

I) OK, I will make them a little bit more expensive, they earn less money a little bit and there will be 3 units buildable only per player.

II) This is intended. Beginners should play Greeks, Egyptians or Romans... while others, who already played this mod and want some challenge should take the Gauls, Phoenicians, etc and pro gamers Numidians, Illyrians, Dacians and so on... :D this is an intended difficulty level within a scenario!

III) I'm sorry, this is not possible with scenarios. I tried it, but the CIVs wouldn't be shown in the choosing list, if any XML tag is missing, eg. Leadertype ....

IV) ok, I will implement this oak for the nordic religion.

Edit to III: ehm, yes in PAE IV, there will be included a 300 BC szenario (the wars of the Diadochi)

As it is now I think the Celtic, Nordic and Phoenician religions are a bit underwhelming and could use a bit more content to make it worthwhile to keep these religions. It's far better to go out of your way to get, say, the Greek religion because it offers better bonuses.

Yet the Dacians, Illyrians and many others have perhaps a single building or a unit and it doesn't make them nearly as interesting to play.

True, many civs are mere walk-ons. But for some of those "minor" civs it's already hard enough to find a proper leader name from historical records, as little as is known about them. It's always sounding a bit ficticious, if you "invent" unique buildings and call them "Skythian stables", for instance, or make up wonders for civs that just didn't have any. However, that's exactly what I would be happy with, halfway thoughtfully made up unique things for the wallflower civs.

Germans: "Donar's Oak".
Dacians: special gold-related forge.
Phoenicinas: special trading post.
Vandals: sacred grove of Vileda (?).
Celts: sacred grove of Teutates.
Illyrians: special pirate shipyard.
Nubians: Nubian pyramid (very nice skin existing on Pie's hard drive).
Numidians: some early burial site
Indians: plenty of choice for Hindu buildings and wonders.
Baktrians: some commercial caravansara national wonder
Skythians and Parthians: should obviously be a "stable" building, because superior mounted units are what they are most remembered for.

I absolutely love playing the scenarios, especially the 18 civ, greek city-states scenario!

That's because you're having a good taste;).

Germans: "Donar's Oak".I like the name Thor's oak. Although Donar is historically more correct, Thor sounds better.

Finally I did it, first post on CFC! I couldn't resist the topic :D.

Welcome Thorgal! :D

Thorgal is the one, who designs the War of the Diadochi (300 BC) scenario for PAE IV!

I am impressed with his work, because in this scenario, I was able to play Egypt, the vassal of Ptolemaeus. The very first time to begin as a vassal in BTS! Fantastic! My goal was to declare war on Ptole (this happens, when you possess sthg the hegemon wants to have and you refuse this trade) and conquered all my egyptian cities back and made Ptole a vassal of mine.... I loved it...

There are tons of cool units/buildings/wonders from the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire MOD that could be incorporated into this mod to make it even more awesome. Check the mod out if you get a chance.

Ok, I'll have a look. It's a warlords mod, I think. Did you play PAE III? There are lots of different CIV skins included. Even for different eras!

Awesome. I don't think I ever played PAE III, what do you mean by skins?

Awesome. I don't think I ever played PAE III, what do you mean by skins?

:eek: Then I know, why you've asked for more details in units. This is already included in PAE III... and many, many, many more....

Skins = art for models how to look like

Never mind, you were just being sarcastic. :lol: Yes I've played it. I just realized there were some different units in that Roman Mod that might be cool to add. Most of the good stuff in that mod is for the Romans such as Hadrians Wall.

yeah I just downloaded it, had a look at the units and buildings and can use some. thank you.
about the Hadrians Wall. I don't like to use the Great Wall for the Hadrian's Wall or Limes because this would have a very, very unrealistic graphical effect. If you want to build the Hadrian's Wall then build two fortresses in the narrow place in britannia and you have it.
And to prevent barbarian invasion from that wall.... not really... as we know today ;)

I think I put it on chieftain and played it and the enemy comes at me with huge stacks of units. Very challenging.

I think I put it on chieftain and played it and the enemy comes at me with huge stacks of units. Very challenging.

Heh, I put it on deity(First time playing that hard) I was swarmed by warriors and crushed by the time we had basket archers. XD

Let me return to the hunting topic. As Hotimenhumeis said, a hunter unit could bring more action to neolithic times. This unit would be strong against animals and weak against military. The unwanted side-effect, though, hunters exploring the whole world passing by PAE's beasts without a scratch, could be dealt with this way:

Rivers slow down movement until you research a certain tech, Construction or what it was. Tiny bridges appear on the map at the intersections of rivers and roads. Can you set the slowing down value of rivers in a way, that makes crossing rivers outside your cultural boarders completely impossible during neolithic times?

Speaking of rivers, I'd really like to see a terrain feature "streams", rivers of double width that make it even harder to cross, delay movement of large stacks and provide some kind of "natural boarders", like the Nile, lower Euphrat&Tigris, Danube or Rhine were in history.

I think definetly the emphasis on horses might be right with the parthians/persians late in the game since their "game" with their horse archers was to feign retreat. This was implemented as high withdrawl ratings on RFRE. The mongols aren't in this game, but also should have this feature.

I'm off to try out world of odysseus. Wonder if there is anything cool in that mod too?<---Played it and it has two cool things that could be added. A trojan horse battering ram and the serpent column. Although the serpant column is unfinished and just named, it definetly was important to the Greeks.

@Keinpferd: I am sorry, this won't work in CIV. It would be possible to set coast plot instead of rivers, but in this case the map has to be extra large ;)
and the next problem is the AI with ships. before the AI uses ships as bridge they'd walk 500 plots around the river...

@stolenrays: The trojan horse is just a special unit in a certain battle. It wouldn't be good to have trojan horses moving around since 1200 BC... hm.. but I will think about it, I just got a funny idea...
Serpant column: that's a good idea, I'll implement that, because there is something similar for other CIVs I am planning (eg. Stele of the Vultures). thx!

This takes a lot of coding knowledge of python and xml, but it would be could to have quests/events of some important historical events/battles. You could really pick whatever you wanted.

If I had the time to concentrate on quests and events, I'd do it. But there are lots of other things I'll implement, that I can't. ;(

@Keinpferd: I am sorry, this won't work in CIV. It would be possible to set coast plot instead of rivers, but in this case the map has to be extra large ;)
and the next problem is the AI with ships. before the AI uses ships as bridge they'd walk 500 plots around the river...

@stolenrays: The trojan horse is just a special unit in a certain battle. It wouldn't be good to have trojan horses moving around since 1200 BC... hm.. but I will think about it, I just got a funny idea...
Serpant column: that's a good idea, I'll implement that, because there is something similar for other CIVs I am planning (eg. Stele of the Vultures). thx!


You could have the Trojan horse as a unique national unit that is obsolete with a certain tech. That may solve your problem.

Hm.... yes...

Could someone explain to me how mercenaries work? Even though I research the necessary tech for a particular mercenary, I still can't build it.

Make a deal with a civ, that has the mercenaries you want. For example, if you've researched Numidian horsemen mercenaries, you need to trade with the Numidians.

The Numidians must have built at least one mercenary guild building in one of their cities, before they can trade their mercenary bonus resource to you in return for what you offer. Now that you've got the mercenary resource from the Numidians, a city of yours can train the mercenary horsemen, only if there is a mercenary guild building in that city. And you don't even need horses to do so;).

Check out these unique national wonders. Some of them might work for you mod such as Hammurabi's Code and Epic of Gilgamesh.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/1ss_pedia_Rb7.jpg

hm... as an unique building for national epic. Good idea! What's the mod?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12178

It is called BTS Unique National Wonders.

Do you have the new version ready, pie_at?

Soon.... :run:

Vassal-Feature is in.
Desertification is in.
New Religions are in. (eg Roman Gods too!)
New territorial bonus is in.
New buildings and units are in.

I am busy with the amazing new Tech tree at the moment...

New CIVs are open.
New Civics are open.

And at last: Pedia and strategy texts have to be made. Lots of them ;)

When i can download the new version?

Subscribe this thread and you'll be top informed ;)

I can't exactly set a date, but I will work hard.... around Easter I hope.

Will the 300BC scenario included, pie_at?

YES!

And I have to say: it's amazing....

I use it for testing already :dance:

Great, i am waiting for it. As well as some historic scenario for the hellas modmod, i dont like epic games so much as historical scenarios.

This mod will be one of the best of history. :)

Quick Question: I was looking in the World Builder and noticed that Liberalism and Scientific Method are technologies that are listed (in World Builder as well as the Civilopedia), but that I can't research. what is their purpose? Do they have something to so with Barbarian attacks late in the game, or can major Civs somehow use them?

Hi qwerecd,

no they are just deactivated dummies, like the privateer unit. When I deleted one of those, the Mod crashed and I didn't know why... perhaps those classes are included in any of the hundred files of BTS, I don't know. And perhaps now with PAE III, you can delete them without consequences, I don't know. but I can try...

Post the IV version!!!!!!!!!!! Easter has passed. :D

Soon :D....

ETA of IV Version?

I am sorry, but I think it will certainly take two weeks. Too much has been changed...

Should I get a subforum of the Mod & Creation Projects ? What do you think?

Sure, this mod deserves it.

Hey... just started playing this mod a couple of days ago and I love it! Just wondering, if any time in the future that you could make Isreal a playable civ? It's kind of weird to have all those other ancient civs and even jewish upriseing, but not be able to play them as a civ... or maybe I missed somthing? In any event very fun and probably the best ancient civ mod I've played in a very long time! Great work!

:D You'll laugh, they'll be in in PAE IV. but ssssh..... ;)

Hi Pie, any idea when you prox will launch IV? Lookin' forward to it!

Hi Mark,
the plan was Eastern. Eastern has passed... I got more and more infos and also wishes from users the last weeks, that I put in here. Lots of good things! So, if no one has any suggestions anymore, I'll try to finish this mod this week. But, I know, that lots of Pedias are missing, and I won't put PAE IV online without full text pedias, it can last one more week....

If you want to help to get PAE IV sooner online, add some Pedias here: Pedias for PAE (http://www.voak.at/PAE/pae_pedias.php)

I really have to finish it next week because, in two weeks I fly away for 2 weeks ;) yeehaaa...

[QUOTE=pie_at;10455763]

If you want to help to get PAE IV sooner online, add some Pedias here: Pedias for PAE (http://www.voak.at/PAE/pae_pedias.php)

QUOTE]

Of course I'll help, happy to!
You use Wikipedia? So copy-paste the same de.wikipedia and en.wikipedia texts in the boxes?

I speak some German, but English works far better for me. Maybe better for me to stick to the English texts, or do you want the German and English texts to be equal?

Great!!
Yes, wikipedia is fine. fine enough for pedia filling, nothing else :D

and yes, the text don't have to be equal!!
and yes, I need both, german and english!

and just copy texts about ancient times and forget the mediaval or modern stuff about it...

hehe.. show the "german" fanatics, who's quicker in research :)

In the Pedias, do they have to be saying the same thing (exactly) in both German and English in each section?

Yay! I contributed!! :D

In the Pedias, do they have to be saying the same thing (exactly) in both German and English in each section?

No! ;)

5 more terms done in English.

Great, you're all quite fast! Faster then the Germans :D

So, if no one has any suggestions anymore, I'll try to finish this mod this week. But, I know, that lots of Pedias are missing, and I won't put PAE IV online without full text pedias, it can last one more week....

If you want to help to get PAE IV sooner online, add some Pedias here: Pedias for PAE (http://www.voak.at/PAE/pae_pedias.php)


Hello Pie! Thanks for considering my suggestions and I have a couple more! :crazyeye:

1. I know I've been picking on him alot, but I have thought of another way to tone down the merchant. As the game is now, you can send merchants into anybody's territory and conduct a trade mission even without the open borders agreement. I suggest that the merchant unit should only be able to enter the borders and conduct a trade mission with civilizations that the civ has an open border agreement with. I think that this would add a lot to the diplomatic side of the game being that in order to fully utilize the very powerful merchant unit, the player would need to maintain friendly relations with a nearby civ.

2. This is sort of small, but in the Greek City State scenario map there is a "wine" resource 4 squares north of the city Byblos (far eastern shore of the Mediterranean) rather than a "grape" resource. The vineyard improvement cannot be built on a "wine" resource, although the they look identical.

I'll also see what I can contribute with the pedia entries.

The game freezes on 319 run :(

Hi Legba,

1. Ancient merchants don't care about borders. I think, merchants got anywhere in ancient times. Like it is in BTS it's programmed for modern times, I think.

2. This is a fault. Thank you!

Hi Arey,
first posting! Great!
Hm, I am sorry, I can't test you save anymore, because I don't have the old III version anymore and I won't download it. PAE IV should be better and saver than its previous version.

But did you try to load from a 2 or 3 turns before autosave ?

I just spent about an hour and a half making Pedia articles. It's actually pretty fun. The article I made for Music is amazing. We're DOMINATING the Germans!

Great job! I am very glad, you help me out to accelerate the completion of PAE IV!

Just looked at Pie's Pedia tool and found that the English side is nearly done! Amazing, but qwerecd, you know, the 2.5 trillion pedias we already did for III will go into the final score, as well;).

By the way, there's the German entry for Roman gods marked open. I know, you're having it, Pie, because I remember I wrote that.

@Legba: Thanks for the wine hint, I'll fix that.

It's for another reason great, that you guys have been working that quickly: The changelog with all the explanations of some really mindblowing new features will take Pie quite some time, that he now doesn't have to spend with Pedias:).

Pie, English pedias are pretty much done. Of course all are more then welcome to add more to my input. Some terms are a little harder:

• Manticism = Divination?
• Deceris?
• Blood Legal or Blood Law? If yes, can find ancient sources
• Public ecenomy or State Economy?
• Ruler cult or Imperial cult?
• Peasant militia > no info
• Impressment > can only find 18th century examples, or do you mean conscription?
• Civil army?

I don't know the terms and/or can't find relevant info. Maybe someone else does or when the German inputters complete the German text, I can translate that text.

Deceris?


MarkNL, please don't do the Deceris. I already did that one in both English and German. Pie can you please try to avoid having us write things up twice and triple times:p?

(Deceris=Decere. German link to a nice collection (http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/8501/kriegsschiffe-der-antike-t38/) of ancient warships.)

OH! you're right :) I got some pedias from 17.4 per PM... I really forgot that part.... sorry. I'll put them in now. And yes, wait until we got the german texts, if you're not sure what is to be meant.

So,.. the english texts are almost finished.
This is great, we could use this speed to translate the strategy and quote texts from german into english....
let's do so.... german texts will come...

Never before has a game come so close to the ancient times....

If you like Rome Total War, you will love PAE III...

Well I should definitely try that... a shame I'm new on CIV mods, only tried one, but I've been playing Rome TW mods for a few... years now. Especially EB and Rome : Total Realism.

Downloading now and count on me for feedback.

hi Salahedin,

especially for RTW Fans, who play Romans with Hastati, Principes and so on: PAE IV will have those special named units for Rome too! If you miss their Latin names in PAE III for Rome ;)

and I really hope, you like this mod....

But did you try to load from a 2 or 3 turns before autosave ?
its don't work :(

damn. sorry then, got no clue.

Pie, about 2 pedias; what do had in mind with both eques and equites? These terms are the same, since equites is plural of eques. Thanks

I dont remember latin very well, a lot of time since i was in the Senate, but could be horse and horseman?

:old:Eques is not horse, it's horseman;). Equites, plural, could just be a slightly different label for an improved rider unit, as they have several kinds in RTW. I only remember the equites, though, being the lightest. I wonder whether the Romans had particular names (that we know of today) to differentiate the degrees of "heaviness" of their cavalry types. Maybe one has to be a little "creative" about that.

Nice work you have here. Been playing this mod for over 6 mos, great having an ancient times civ style game. :hatsoff:

I read above about Pie4, exiting news indeed! Not so worried about the release date, though I'd like to see whats in the making. Any forum up for that I may had missed?, anyways good luck with it. :coffee:

thx Mark, you're right, better ask me ;)

Keinpferd: Equites are not the lightest cavalry. They just changed armory as research was able to. The auxiliary cavalry was lighter and cheaper. The Equites were the Knights of ancient times.

No in PAE, Eques and Equites shouldn't be the same. It's true what Keinpferd says, it can stand for the same, but I found out, that Eques was also called a Mounted Gladiator, they used in the army at hard times. I use this unit instead of the Heavy Cavalry. The Equites is the rich roman aristocrat, I use it instead of the War Horse.

Example for a source: http://www.roman-colosseum.info/gladiators/eques.htm

Some words to PAE IV: PAE III will look very old :D

I understand your intention with these 2 terms Pie; the 'normal' horsemen and the 'aristocratic' knights. I made a short design for a pedia for these two. I think I caught the sentiment you meant, but feel free to add or remove.

It remains a litlle difficult in terms of historical correctness, because in fact the Roman cavalry started as a departments for nobles (unit equites in your meaning) and the lower class were added later when the demand for cavalry outnumbered the number of noble families, and received a horse from the state (unit eques). So in Civ/PAE, equites could be an upgrade from eques since unit Horseman (eques) comes available way before unit War Horse (equites), which is in fact a bit the other way around.

Maybe there it's an option to incluide this a bit through civics. An early (different) type of Equites becoming availabe with Heritage Rule as a chosen civic. This unit costs the state nothing since the aristocras pay for their own horse. Changing civics obsoletes this unit, so the 'plebs horseman' Eques can be build with later on the (2nd) form of equites, which costs 1 gold per turn and requires a stable.

Anyway, we can also just consider these terms an other addition to the playing fun, and leave historical correctness aside! :)

Keinpferd: Equites are not the lightest cavalry. They just changed armory as research was able to. The auxiliary cavalry was lighter and cheaper. The Equites were the Knights of ancient times.

In RTW, I meant. There they are the first riders available.

Maybe there it's an option to incluide this a bit through civics. An early (different) type of Equites becoming availabe with Heritage Rule as a chosen civic. This unit costs the state nothing since the aristocras pay for their own horse. Changing civics obsoletes this unit, so the 'plebs horseman' Eques can be build with later on the (2nd) form of equites, which costs 1 gold per turn and requires a stable.

That makes sense, but I'm not quite sure, whether you can make a unit available depending on a civic, unless Pie is going to add some Python.

hm... because units are not part of a civic management, it would be a python script and then the AI won't get the right use of it.
And sorry, because I got this settle up and down thing with the heavy horse man, I can't make an upgrade of this unit. So, every python script can set limits to right normal things ...

So, we have to play it like this and I hope noone cares, if so, I really have to change this fact! Thanks Mark!

You all were very, very helpful with the pedias! I hope the germans go on with the german texts this weekend, cause I got other texts to translater (vassal-feature) and button design. after that, I can go on with those pedia texts...

Pie, honestly, the thingy with the horseguys is just one small item in a great mod. As I said, terms like this add to the playing fun. Thats what it's all about!

I'll keep an eye on the open English text, happy to contribute a little.

Okay ! some feedback.

starting with the romans on 18 civs european map, I was at first a bit bored... nothing happened for maaaaaany turns : no culture available, no religions, only hunting animals with kamikaze warriors...
things become more interesting as you start to expand and try to manage your cities.
I'm fighting Boudica now on North Italy to get some more ressources. South Italy is mine.
I got too many events during first age : I think I got hurt by fire meteors 3 times in a thousand years... maybe it's just bad luck but I found it a bit tough. Same for the storms that last 3 or 4 turns (how many years do they last? not very realistic)?
I got very very badly hurt by a small mistake : founding one more city broke my treasury, and 4 of my 5 cities kept revolting due to high taxes, making me loosing more and more money... I had to reload a savegame cos I couldn't handle that.
In general very funny to play but you have to learn the hard way! Maybe too much. Well balanced so far, and I like many changes of the gameplay, especially tactical ones.
One thing really made me laugh : a warrior of mine went on exploration, got attacked by a bear... he was defeated, but successfully retreated... right on a tile with a goody hut, which revealed 3 angry barbarian warriors... gasp.

hey salahedin,
starting with the romans on 18 civs european map, I was at first a bit bored... nothing happened for maaaaaany turns : no culture available, no religions, only hunting animals with kamikaze warriors...

this will be changed in PAE IV! (Monoliths, Observatories, a hunting unit, palace and colonization earlier)
I got too many events during first age : I think I got hurt by fire meteors 3 times in a thousand years... maybe it's just bad luck but I found it a bit tough. Same for the storms that last 3 or 4 turns (how many years do they last? not very realistic)?

This is bad luck, but I think 3 times in 1000 years is ok. if you didn't got hurt by a vulcano, tsunami, comet and earthquake of 9 or something else....
Storms for 3-4 turns: this is gameplay. like everything: a simple monument isn't built in 8 turns = 80 years in reality!
I got very very badly hurt by a small mistake : founding one more city broke my treasury, and 4 of my 5 cities kept revolting due to high taxes, making me loosing more and more money... I had to reload a savegame cos I couldn't handle that.

hm.. ok this sounds hard, but it's shows the difficulty to handle a big empire. but as you already know, that this wouldn't happen, if you control your expences.
In general very funny to play but you have to learn the hard way! Maybe too much. Well balanced so far, and I like many changes of the gameplay, especially tactical ones.

thanks
One thing really made me laugh : a warrior of mine went on exploration, got attacked by a bear... he was defeated, but successfully retreated... right on a tile with a goody hut, which revealed 3 angry barbarian warriors... gasp.
hehe... that's life :D

Two weeks more....
I wanted to get it available last weekend, but important texts are missing and I just have to design all the buttons which I'll finish this weekend.
And because I go on holidays the next to weeks (Greece), I will upload PAE IV in 2 or 3 weeks.
I don't want to put a mod online disappearing for the next 2 weeks.

I hope you're patient enough. Perhaps a beta tester will post some screenshots to keep this thread thrilling...

oh yo dont need to post the link here, send me the link for download by pm and i will go testing the mod. :D

I am a kind player, dont will go whinning about some bugs. :)

:D ... I believe you :D. oh, you'll really love it, because I've updated the Iberians with some details too.... hm...

Post some teasers and bring us all souvenirs!

Pie great Job mate... I can't wait to see what you creat next.. I'm shocked on how brilliant this mod is :)

I'm having so much fun.. this is the only mod I'll be playing for many months :)

At the moment I'm trying to fix the death animations for roman legion etc.. I have to start from scratch learning to mod again... its been over 5 years :(

If anyone has a quick tip on fixing these animations it would be nice.

Also I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if it is possible to use civ 5 animations for civ 4...
example... I have set it so that units have more units with formations... but the issue is waiting so long for the battle to finish... if I could have it so that all units in the animation fight at the same time that would solve the problem.. in civ 5 the units would rush and fight together... civ4 one unit will go forward fight then the next one etc I hope i explained it well enough.

Keep up the great work !!!

if I could have it so that all units in the animation fight at the same time that would solve the problem.. in civ 5 the units would rush and fight together...

Exactly. That's why I let only a few hoplite style units fight in formations (of six) just because of the tiresome animations one by one, while you kind of know after the third guy falling or standing what's going to happen. Why don't you post a question in the general Creation & Customization section, because that would probably be an improvement to any mod?

This mod has piqued my curiosity for ages so I'm downloading it for the first time. I will say that there are a few things about this mod that look really troubling, but I'll withhold judgment until I try it.

Pie, after several hours of IV Beta; you did it again. IV is better, more extensive and more fun then III. The Romans are privileged with all the new unique units. In short; compliments! I like the little details, the art, game play etc.
Some small remarks from my side:


• Babylon is not included, while 4 Wonders are originated in Babylon. According to my humble opinion, Babylonian civ is of great historical importance and should be included. After all, they were early adapters of agriculture, barter, law, writing and astronomy.
• It occurred to me Sparta is the first Greek city. The idea to split Athens, Thebes and Sparta is great, but I think Italy is shaped strange in that map.
• Uniformity in capitals; The Great Lighthouse & The great Colloseum
• Civics screen doesn’t fit; too wide
• Oppidum. Seems like the pedia text follows the term
• I believe Numeri are too strong, see civilopedia

• 300BC is a great idea, but can’t figure it out how to play; all takes ages. Could also be because I couldn’t adjust civics. Besides this, I think Rhodes is a bit out location.

• Babylon is not included, while 4 Wonders are originated in Babylon. According to my humble opinion, Babylonian civ is of great historical importance and should be included. After all, they were early adapters of agriculture, barter, law, writing and astronomy.
I think, Babylon didn't disappear from all maps, but just from the 18-civs most commonly played ones. On the German forum, we were having lengthy discussions about that:)… …resulting in an all new Oriental map, which is going to host a scenario with all the Mesopotamian peoples you can think of, including Babylon and even two new Indian civs and also the Bactrians in the northeastern corner. Pie's Ancient Middle East & Central Asia! Will probably be delivered in a patch shortly after the PAE IV release. Look into the XML and you will see, most of what's needed, is already included, like Buddhism and Hinduism and much more…

• It occurred to me Sparta is the first Greek city. The idea to split Athens, Thebes and Sparta is great, but I think Italy is shaped strange in that map.
Complaints go to veBear;) who did the coastal outlines of the lower part of the map, while I reworked it and added the upper third from scratch. It can easily look like there's something strange to Italy's shape, but it's probably due to the turned angle of the map. It's rotated counterclockwise about twenty degrees (to have less desert and tundra tiles), that's why.

In your Beta you will find an Athens-Sparta-Thebes map, that was optimized for PAE III and which is turning out completely unbalanced with the recent changes. If you play it, please check if the version, that Pie sent you, has already got the new trait Maritime for Pericles, Hiram, et cetera… This trait is to rebalance the many new advantages civs with lots of space and good land get over the water civs with cramped starting locations and no barb cities around to conquer. I'm currently making a new rebalanced version, and it looks like Maritime is working pretty well.


• Uniformity in capitals; The Great Lighthouse & The great Colloseum
• Civics screen doesn’t fit; too wide
• Oppidum. Seems like the pedia text follows the term
• I believe Numeri are too strong, see civilopedia

Can you explain more in detail?

Numeri: I haven't played that far yet, but I guess there should be some counter to strength-14 units that will pay you a visit in late game…

300BC: That's something for Thorgal to answer. Why couldn't you adjust civics?

• Babylon is not included, while 4 Wonders are originated in Babylon. According to my humble opinion, Babylonian civ is of great historical importance and should be included. After all, they were early adapters of agriculture, barter, law, writing and astronomy. I miss them too ;). Babylon is only available in the L 14 map. But maybe there will be some more maps, with different Civs and Leaders. So you can play with Babylon on the 18 B map or with Augustus for example. What do you think?

• Uniformity in capitals; The Great Lighthouse & The great Colloseum [...] • Oppidum. Seems like the pedia text follows the termI noticed this too. You can fix the oppidum-thing by adding _PEDIA in the XML-Entry for the building Oppidum (in Assets / XML / Text / PAEGameText_Pedia).

• 300BC is a great idea, but can’t figure it out how to play; all takes ages. Could also be because I couldn’t adjust civics. Besides this, I think Rhodes is a bit out location.Speed Game in the 300BC is marathon, so everything takes a while. That’s because, the techtree is almost at it’s end and the main aim is to survive with your civ and build up an empire.

Topic Rhodes: Not every city is placed exactly. I used the PAE-map and made only minor changes ;).

If I understand you right, your civic-problem is not a game problem, but only an understanding thing. So don’t care about it, I think every civ has almost the correct historical civic and is ready to fight :D For the start, maybe the Ptolemaic civ is the easiest, the Romans are much more difficult and it’s really hard to survive with the Seleucids.

Thorgal, is your 300BC scenario included in the Beta? Havent been play it yet, too much work.

Very cool mod!!:goodjob:

Just download me but gave me a little problem ... to see if you can help me solve it:
First, I am very slow loading the mod, when I say it takes a lot I talking about 5 to 10 minutes.
That's normal??
And secondly and more importantly, once I loaded the letters aren't for any site, it shows only white space, I mean, I do not see it in single player, multiplayer and others; I only look the side arrows.
It may be some problem with the font? with the language?? (I have it in Spanish)

I've downloaded mods and have never had any problems so I have no idea that it may be because if I have the BTS version 3.19

If you could help me appreciate it, because it really looks great mod.

Thanks.

PS: sorry for my English!

Pie, after several hours of IV Beta; you did it again. IV is better, more extensive and more fun then III. The Romans are privileged with all the new unique units. In short; compliments! I like the little details, the art, game play etc.

Thx!
Some small remarks from my side:
• Babylon is not included, while 4 Wonders are originated in Babylon. According to my humble opinion, Babylonian civ is of great historical importance and should be included. After all, they were early adapters of agriculture, barter, law, writing and astronomy.
Because Babylon is a Sumerian city, founded by the Sumerians! I only put Babylon into a scen when the Sumerians are included too. If I have to choose between them, I have to take the Sumerians. It's like Phoenicians and Carthage.
• It occurred to me Sparta is the first Greek city. The idea to split Athens, Thebes and Sparta is great, but I think Italy is shaped strange in that map.
Hm, yes now with a new trait Maritime, I could change that again. We'll have a try.
• Uniformity in capitals; The Great Lighthouse & The great Colloseum
ok
• Civics screen doesn’t fit; too wide
uh, please make a screenshot. If I can make it more smaller for your resolution, ok, otherwise you should change you ingame resolution.
• Oppidum. Seems like the pedia text follows the term
ok
• I believe Numeri are too strong, see civilopedia
hm... testing.

• 300BC is a great idea, but can’t figure it out how to play; all takes ages. Could also be because I couldn’t adjust civics. Besides this, I think Rhodes is a bit out location.
For this scen, you'll need lots of RAM :D

Very cool mod!!:goodjob:

Just download me but gave me a little problem ... to see if you can help me solve it:
First, I am very slow loading the mod, when I say it takes a lot I talking about 5 to 10 minutes.
That's normal??
Yes. There are lots of initializations for the mod (buildings, units, skins, texts). But this will get better in PAE IV, because I will pack the graphical files to speed up the mod loading (but this appears only for the first loading).

And secondly and more importantly, once I loaded the letters aren't for any site, it shows only white space, I mean, I do not see it in single player, multiplayer and others; I only look the side arrows.
It may be some problem with the font? with the language?? (I have it in Spanish)

I've downloaded mods and have never had any problems so I have no idea that it may be because if I have the BTS version 3.19
Strange. All text files are including the Spanish-Tags. In english language. So you should have letters. Perhaps you didn't download/install the full mod (connection broke)? Download and install again. If you ever had BUG installed, you have to reinstall BTS. sorry. :(

I'm really enjoying this mod; I can't wait to try PAE IV!