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Black Whole
Nov 16, 2010, 08:11 AM
So, the last week i've been really productive.
I'd like to post everything i've done this week:Barbs.py: I moved the indy city in Kyushu to a better place (renamed, of course), because otherwise you won't found Mimana in Korea. And i placed a "Yan" in China, which becomes Beijing over the time, just because this city was pretty important in history.
CityNameManager: Citynames of per-placed cities change properly, especially in the steppe and SE Asia. Also, if a (former) Zhou city gets conquered by another chinese civ, its name, which is a state name, changes to the name of the capital (don't know if it's complete, made it with Wikipedia)
Civics: Merchantry now gives just +10% :gold:, and Nobility +25% :gp:; Still the AI doesn't like Nobility. Except that fact it's quite balanced.
StoredData is necessary for Birma's UHV
Victory: Birma (still no UHV that's accomplished first). I played it, and i got 30 turns without "2 out of 3" GA in ~1300. 40 turns can be possible one day:mischief:
And UHVs for Vietnam.1. No chinese culture south of Huangpu River in 900AD (the one with the mouth NW of Taiwan). Vietnamese people settled in southern China once (Black Whole said that), and keeping chinese culture away from Vietnam seems essential.
2. Own 10 maritime ressources by 900AD. Fish, Clam, whatever you like. My empire covered southern China, Taiwan and present-day Vietnam because of that. Looked decent.
3. Be the number one civ in 1200AD. It's a generic UHV, and can be removed if you got a better idea.Let's see what you think. If you don't like it, it's still better to hurt my feelings than having no-fun-at-all UHVs.
Bad news is that my break from university is over. But i got a feeling that i know what to do in Christmas Break...:xmascheers:

Ah that's why you are posting so much stuff... I already thought that you were modding during the night :lol:. I'll add those things, sure... but I thought that we move Vietnam to a starting date around 1000AD?

Is the title of mandate of heaven supposed to be claimed and make that sound every turn? If so, I vote for not playing the sound; it can be annoying to hear every turn.

Dafiden has a good point, that sound is annoying. Change it to some other theme

No it shouldn't do that at all... and it never occurred to me, too. Under whcih circumstances did you experience this? Did someone collapse?

about SVN: I have no idea how this works, but it sounds time consuming... And time is something, that I barely have... in one week I have maybe 3 hours or so... Maybe I start with the next full version, but there are so many things left to do... I don't think it would be possible for me.

I had an idea of adding the Gupta civ to get rid of the Harrapa faster
Gupta: capital is Lahore (spawn there at 200 ad) capital can vary depending on where you want it
Leader is Chandragupta
UU: Bamboo Archer- reg archer ability plus, 20% vs melee units
UB: Iron pillar- replaces monument- +1 happy, +2culture, +20% culture
UP: Indian Medicine- all units start with medic I
UHV:
1) have 8,000 culture by year??? (maybe 700-800 ad)
2) make hinduism dominant religion in Indian subcontinent or spread Hinduism to 40%
3) build two Hindu wonders(or regular wonders) by year??? (maybe 600 ad)
While, they sound good, I have two problems:
1. The guptas cover exatly the same area as the Maurya... there isn't space fo them and autodestroying maury for the guptas... I don't know.
2. The time span between Maurya (start 320BC) and Guptas is too short: so Maurya have 52 turns left for consolidating an empire, before they would collapse...
If you have an idea how they could be included, tell me :).

Here are some names for Great People.
Atm there are just chinese one. So it surely isn't complete, but it's something to start with (so no at least no Lorenzo di Medici anymore)
Here's what i thought we could do
Spoiler:
Instead of giving every civ it's own list of GPs, we make some pools: chinese (with Jurchen and Mongols), korean, japanese, southeast asian, indian (including Majapahit) and persian (the two steppe civs included. It's the most practical way to include them anywhere). If we differ, that's the farest i would go.
It's just that hardly anyone in here can tell if Lü Bu was a general in Han times or Ming times. Including stupid names like Gang Bang or Long Wang, some might still think "sounds kinda chinese"
My point is that it's not worth the effort if no one can spot the difference
There are a lot of generals in the list, so you can delete some.

The AI seems to ignore the guidelines:
Zhou almost always founds a city out of its settlermap
The persian cities are conquered by any indian civ at Ghaznavid spawn
Mongols doesn't attack at all (but that has been pointed out)
The strangest thing i've seen so far (in my birmese game) was Tibet and Tang fighting over Kambodia. This one isn't a problem, for it happened only once. It's just a little funny.
Maybe the problem that barbs not attacking Harappa digs deeper: Just for fun, i tripled the number of Aryans spawning. I thought they don't feel strong enough. The Result: They didn't attack at all. All i got was 60-80 barbs in Persia

Just an idea for a new civ: Sulu Sultanate. Atm, the Philippines and Borneo are underrepresented.
They spawn in 1390, flag and color is easy, Leader Hashem Abu Bakr. Their UHV is conquering these areas and spreading islam there.

I agree about the names, we can use pools for them ( and again a new task rises: how do I code that? :lol:).
Errr, which list? :P

About AI: I don't know how to influence them, I would rather focus on adding all the thngs I have on my list and then start balancing, because otherwise I would need to change that everytime...
Could you post a screenshot for the Zhou behaviour? In my games they always settle how they should...
The conquring of indies adn barb cities is a general problem of the AI... You don't want to know how often I have seen Korean cities in SE Asia or Indian in China :D.
Mongols are too weak ATM, so they don't attack... I will change them in the next version (I know I want to do a lot for the next version, but it shal also be the first beta :P)
That's what I meant with the barbs: they don't attack until a given turn...

For the Philippines I already proposed a civ: Kingdom of Butuan. It starts aaround 1000AD, but nobody commented it... 1390 or even 1450 is far too late... you would only have 81 or 61 turns to play... not very fun, I think.
And I am even considering to reduce tha amount of turns in the late game in favor of the early mid game... this would balance the techs a little bit, as new civ wouldn't start so far ahead with techs.

veBear
Nov 16, 2010, 08:57 AM
Butuan sounds good. Proposed UHV's (more than 3, just pick and mix):
1. Have explored a sea belt stretching from the Bottom to the Top of the map by X AD (This would have them explore and make contact with other civs, suitable for a Trading Nation)
2. Have Open Borders with civ X and Y by Z AD (Use Inland civs, such as the gokturks etc.)
3. Have open borders to one Indian, two South-East Asian, one Chinese and either Korea or Jaban (or both) by X AD (they had an extensive trading network
4. Have X open borders by Y AD
5. Be the richest civ by X AD
6. Accumulate X amount of gold by Y AD

UP idea:
The power of Gold Trade:
Free (foreign) trading route in Capital for every open borders signed

Edit:
I would gladly create them a button and flag too. I have everything in mind already (I thought about using the Golden Tara as their symbol)

Leoreth
Nov 16, 2010, 09:17 AM
about SVN: I have no idea how this works, but it sounds time consuming... And time is something, that I barely have... in one week I have maybe 3 hours or so... Maybe I start with the next full version, but there are so many things left to do... I don't think it would be possible for me.
Creating your repository somewhere takes almost no time, and it's easy to get familiar with explorer tools like Tortoise. After that, it's just a matter of two clicks to update your files or commit your own changes.

@veBear:
Sorry for getting slightly off-topic here, but do you know an easy way to create a button from an already existing flag decal and color? The thing is, I'm missing a button for Byzantium and I don't know how to create one with the right color (yellow on purple) with the decal Rhye uses for the Byzantines.

veBear
Nov 16, 2010, 09:34 AM
Yes, it is quite easy. My favorite way is to simply screenshot the flag and paste it into gimp, then use the colour-copy thing to find the colour that is representated the most in the flag (not from the shadow parts) so I have that colour for the background of the button, then I delete everything of the main colour around the symbol, copy the symbol into a 58x58 square and resises it so it fits in, then paints the background with the colour I got from the flag Background and then merge the two layers, crop the layer if it is over 58x58 pixels and then paint it in the Flag and Button maker gimp file by asioasio... I could make a .pdf tutorial :p

Leoreth
Nov 16, 2010, 10:12 AM
Cool, thanks :goodjob:

But I'm right that those result in buttons without the usual "flag" background (i.e. you see shadows like it's really a textured flag)?

veBear
Nov 16, 2010, 11:18 AM
When you use asioasio's flag button maker, you will get a better shadoe texture than the one from the normal flag, which is why I delete the normal flag BG and replaces it with one colour so the effect from asioasio's buttonmaker will be better.

Leoreth
Nov 16, 2010, 11:26 AM
That sounds good, I'll try it soon and see for myself :)

civ-addicted
Nov 16, 2010, 03:02 PM
I agree about the names, we can use pools for them ( and again a new task rises: how do I code that? :lol:).
Errr, which list? :P
I meant that there are a lot of names for generals in the txt file. Unless there wasn't irony intended:p
Could you post a screenshot for the Zhou behaviour? In my games they always settle how they should...
That's strange, because Zhou always founds a Beijing in my games. The favourite places are in Shandong Peninsula and the north of their capital next to the mountains (no screenshot atm, sorry)
For the Philippines I already proposed a civ: Kingdom of Butuan. It starts aaround 1000AD, but nobody commented it... 1390 or even 1450 is far too late... you would only have 81 or 61 turns to play... not very fun, I think.
And I am even considering to reduce tha amount of turns in the late game in favor of the early mid game... this would balance the techs a little bit, as new civ wouldn't start so far ahead with techs.Oh right, there was Butuan:blush: Nevermind.
But i still think that we need to push Islam a bit. Sulu was just a way to do that; for example, let Aceh start with Islam (some people say that it's there since the 8th century), and you can let Islam spread like the minor religions (but very RARELY). I havn't seen Islam in a chinese city, and somehow Ming should be able to build the Mosque of Xian. 2 or 3 chinese cities with Islam would be fine.

About Vietnam...i thought they were fun to play. Settling southern China makes you change history, and that's the basic idea of RFC.
If we move the date, i couldn't think about what they should do. It seems to me that Dai Viet rarely did anything; They conquered nothing until 15th century. They've spread Buddhism and defended Vietnam against the Khmer and Yuan. If we translate that into UHVs, it seems to be too generic and rather boring...but maybe that's just me (i hope my UHVs aren't too boring either)
Or does anyone have an interesting idea for Dai Viet?

Baron03
Nov 16, 2010, 04:28 PM
Rajahnate of Butuan (spawn during 989 ad at Butuan in southern Philippines)
Leader: Rajah Kiling or Sri Bata Shaja
They are Hindu, so start with hinduism
UU: Bangka(filipino for boat) replaces transport, has more movement than transport
UB: Silong(replaces granary) +1 food, +2 health, and regular storage ability

civ-addicted
Nov 17, 2010, 05:01 AM
As an UU, Butuan should have a Balangay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balangay). They were used as cargo ships, so they replace a transport (but maybe with less movement), and trademissions for 100+ :gold: availible for a Balangay (last time i proposed something like that you didn't like it...but i don't give up;))

A list for japanese GPs is attached. Until you figured out how to make that pool-model, just add the names to the current list.
I think RFCE has GPs for every single civ; adding an or-statement should do it.

civ-addicted
Nov 17, 2010, 12:24 PM
Here are some screenies about Zhou settlement behaviour...
Bear in mind that all 4 of them are from 4 different games.


EDIT: And i got, just a few moments ago, the bug in the MoH mechanic. I tried a game as Khmer, and while autoplay it started; You will see that Zhou is dead, but the message that Zhou claimed the title pops up every turn. Boy, i was lucky:lol:

Baron03
Nov 17, 2010, 05:29 PM
where do I exactly unpack the patch?

merijn_v1
Nov 18, 2010, 07:25 AM
I think RFCE has GPs for every single civ; adding an or-statement should do it.

We don't have unique GP names for each civ. (Like only the Dutch get the name Rembrandt) But we have a list of GP names with (about 5) names of each civ in it. (So it's possible to get Basil II as Genoa) Here is an example of the names we have:
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_PHILIP_THE_GOOD</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_BASIL_II</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CHARLES_MARTEL</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_KHALID_IBN_AL_WALID</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_KALOYAN</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_KRUM</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_TARIK_IBN_ZIHAD</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HERNAN_CORTES</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ERIC_BLOODAXE</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ANDREA_GRITTI</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_SVIATOSLAV_I</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_JANOS_HUNYADI</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_FREDERICK_BARBAROSSA</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_STEFAN_BATORY</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ANDREA_DORIA</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_EDWARD_LONGSHANKS</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_AFONSO_HENRIQUES</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_EUGENE_VON_SAVOYEN</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ORHAN_GHAZI</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_GUSTAVUS_ADOLPHUS</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_MICHIEL_DE_RUYTER</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_CHARLES_THE_BALD</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HERACLIUS</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HENRI_TURENNE</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_AMIR_IBN_AL_AS</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_PETER_II</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_YUSUF_IBN_TASHFIN</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_GONZALO_DE_CORDOBA</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_HARALD_HARDRADA</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_SEBASTIANO_VENIER</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ROMAN_MSTISLAVICH</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_PAL_KINIZSI</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_GEBHARD_VON_BLUCHER</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_JAN_III_SOBIESKI</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_MIKHAIL_KUTUZOV</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_AMBROGIO_SPINOLA</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_OLIVER_CROMWELL</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_ALBRECHT_VON_WALLENSTEIN</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_LENNART_TORSTENSON</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_MAARTEN_TROMP</UniqueName>

veBear
Nov 18, 2010, 01:38 PM
I were playing a game as the Vietnamese when I entered the WB to see how many civs had spawned yet when I noticed something wierd. I think this is the most epic barb spawn ever... :lol:

veBear
Nov 18, 2010, 01:52 PM
Butuan sounds good. Proposed UHV's (more than 3, just pick and mix):
1. Have explored a sea belt stretching from the Bottom to the Top of the map by X AD (This would have them explore and make contact with other civs, suitable for a Trading Nation)
2. Have Open Borders with civ X and Y by Z AD (Use Inland civs, such as the gokturks etc.)
3. Have open borders to one Indian, two South-East Asian, one Chinese and either Korea or Jaban (or both) by X AD (they had an extensive trading network
4. Have X open borders by Y AD
5. Be the richest civ by X AD
6. Accumulate X amount of gold by Y AD

UP idea:
The power of Gold Trade:
Free (foreign) trading route in Capital for every open borders signed

Edit:
I would gladly create them a button and flag too. I have everything in mind already (I thought about using the Golden Tara as their symbol)

Sorry for double post, but anyway... as promised, btn and flag in attachement. Use following colours:
<ColorVal>
<Type>COLOR_PLAYER_TYRIAN_PURPLE</Type>
<fRed>0.4706</fRed>
<fGreen>0.0941</fGreen>
<fBlue>0.2902</fBlue>
<fAlpha>1.00</fAlpha>
</ColorVal>
And
<PlayerColorInfo>
<Type>PLAYERCOLOR_TYRIAN_PURPLE</Type>
<ColorTypePrimary>COLOR_PLAYER_TYRIAN_PURPLE</ColorTypePrimary>
<ColorTypeSecondary>COLOR_PLAYER_DARK_YELLOW</ColorTypeSecondary>
<TextColorType>COLOR_PLAYER_TYRIAN_PURPLE</TextColorType>
</PlayerColorInfo>

merijn_v1
Nov 18, 2010, 01:53 PM
It's to prevent the Harrapan to settle their. :lol:

Black Whole
Nov 18, 2010, 03:05 PM
Butuan sounds good. Proposed UHV's (more than 3, just pick and mix):
1. Have explored a sea belt stretching from the Bottom to the Top of the map by X AD (This would have them explore and make contact with other civs, suitable for a Trading Nation)
2. Have Open Borders with civ X and Y by Z AD (Use Inland civs, such as the gokturks etc.)
3. Have open borders to one Indian, two South-East Asian, one Chinese and either Korea or Jaban (or both) by X AD (they had an extensive trading network
4. Have X open borders by Y AD
5. Be the richest civ by X AD
6. Accumulate X amount of gold by Y AD

UP idea:
The power of Gold Trade:
Free (foreign) trading route in Capital for every open borders signed

Edit:
I would gladly create them a button and flag too. I have everything in mind already (I thought about using the Golden Tara as their symbol)

Thanks! I'll see what I can put together :). And thanks for your button, it will be in the next full version.

Oh right, there was Butuan Nevermind.
But i still think that we need to push Islam a bit. Sulu was just a way to do that; for example, let Aceh start with Islam (some people say that it's there since the 8th century), and you can let Islam spread like the minor religions (but very RARELY). I havn't seen Islam in a chinese city, and somehow Ming should be able to build the Mosque of Xian. 2 or 3 chinese cities with Islam would be fine.

About Vietnam...i thought they were fun to play. Settling southern China makes you change history, and that's the basic idea of RFC.
If we move the date, i couldn't think about what they should do. It seems to me that Dai Viet rarely did anything; They conquered nothing until 15th century. They've spread Buddhism and defended Vietnam against the Khmer and Yuan. If we translate that into UHVs, it seems to be too generic and rather boring...but maybe that's just me (i hope my UHVs aren't too boring either)
Or does anyone have an interesting idea for Dai Viet?

Ah the Zhou should settle there, bit the city mapsdon't cover these areas... Zhe only thing is the Beijing area, they shouldn't settle there at all...
I know Islam is just too weak... I already considered that it should spread via events and wonders... e.g. The mosque of xian spreads islam to three foreign cities upon completion.
So we leave Vietnam's date as it is? That's okay with me.
Now the only civ that is unclear is Japan....

Rajahnate of Butuan (spawn during 989 ad at Butuan in southern Philippines)
Leader: Rajah Kiling or Sri Bata Shaja
They are Hindu, so start with hinduism
UU: Bangka(filipino for boat) replaces transport, has more movement than transport
UB: Silong(replaces granary) +1 food, +2 health, and regular storage ability
Cool, now that's service :lol:.

where do I exactly unpack the patch?

Just into your .../Beyond the Sword/Mods/ folder.

About GP names: I will add them in the next full version, the patch will be about completin some things and making the game more playable. I already fixed the bug with the sound when noone is claiming the Mandate of Heaven.

So here are my plans for the patch:
I want to give every civ its UP and UHV except for mongols, they will be dealt with in the next version. The other thing is the tech rate... currently they cost twice as much as the values I entered in the XML fields... I want to make it possible to research all techs in the time span :p. When this is finished, I will release the patch and begin with adding the new civs and coding some things I still have in mind...

civ-addicted
Nov 18, 2010, 04:14 PM
We don't have unique GP names for each civ. (Like only the Dutch get the name Rembrandt) But we have a list of GP names with (about 5) names of each civ in it. (So it's possible to get Basil II as Genoa) Here is an example of the names we have: [...]


:confused: I thought i read it somewhere. Once again, i got tricked by my own mind.
EDIT:It was here (http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilization: _Europe_civilizations), but i misunderstood.
Instead, i'm trying to research and provide a list of GP names


Now the only civ that is unclear is Japan....According to what?

Just an idea for an UHV i got while making the japanese GP list (ninjas involved!): Get a specific amount of espionage points (2000 or so) towards all other civs, which means sending an army of ninjas to China, Vietnam and so on.
But it's a little childish.
Nevermind.
So here are my plans for the patch:
I want to give every civ its UP and UHV except for mongols, they will be dealt with in the next version. The other thing is the tech rate... currently they cost twice as much as the values I entered in the XML fields... I want to make it possible to research all techs in the time span :p. When this is finished, I will release the patch and begin with adding the new civs and coding some things I still have in mind...

I can hardly wait:run:

I think this could be the first birman UHV:
Build 3 Stupas, Wats and Buddha Statues in 1060. Yeah, i know that it's exactly what i discribed as "too generic and rather boring", but wait. First, it's historical, because it's in Anawrathas reign, who had a relativly big Birma and Buddhism has been established until then.
Second, it's more accurate in the gameplay. It keeps you from building wonders from the start (no Jokhang, Potala Palace etc. in Birma), and you won't have all that much specialists in the cities (at least i didn't) too early. And it's doable.
If you like it, here's the code (copy-paste):
i1060AD = con.i1060AD

if (iGameTurn == i1060AD):
if (self.getGoal(iMyanmar, 0) == -1):
iCounterStatue = 0
iCounterStupa = 0
iCounterWat = 0
cityList = PyPlayer(iMyanmar).getCityList()
for city in cityList:
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistBuddha)):
iCounterStatue += 1
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistStupa)):
iCounterStupa += 1
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistWat)):
iCounterWat += 1
if (iCounterStatue >= 3 and iCounterStupa >= 3 and iCounterWat >= 3):
self.setGoal(iMyanmar, 0, 1)
if (iGameTurn == i1060AD+1):
if (self.getGoal(iMyanmar, 0) == -1):
self.setGoal(iMyanmar, 0, 0)Don't forget to adjust const.py, but whom am i telling;)

veBear
Nov 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Rajahnate of Butuan (spawn during 989 ad at Butuan in southern Philippines)
Leader: Rajah Kiling or Sri Bata Shaja
They are Hindu, so start with hinduism
UU: Bangka(filipino for boat) replaces transport, has more movement than transport
UB: Silong(replaces granary) +1 food, +2 health, and regular storage ability

Looks okay, though I say rename the UU to Balangay as civ addicted proposed (though I am not in for his UU's bonuses).

merijn_v1
Nov 19, 2010, 09:29 AM
About GP names: I will add them in the next full version, the patch will be about completin some things and making the game more playable. I already fixed the bug with the sound when noone is claiming the Mandate of Heaven.

If you want to include the names of the list I gave, DON'T. It is a list of only European GP's. But if you had an other list in mind, please include them.

Baron03
Nov 20, 2010, 05:14 PM
the dynamic naming on the patch doesnt seem to be working properly, all it does is have the civ's name as people. Like Zhou people, Qin people, or Korean people

merijn_v1
Nov 21, 2010, 06:54 AM
Here is text and translation for the Harrapan Civ. (you only have to change the text and put in in a .xml file) + a suggestion for the (Tibetan) Khampha Horseman art.

civ-addicted
Nov 21, 2010, 07:26 AM
Here are the GP names.
Because the ghaznavid UHVs there are more persian artists. I don't know which korean UHVs you've chosen, but science gonna be a part of it, so there are more korean scolars. The only thing that isn't complete are great spies' names. Atm there are just japanese ninjas, otherwise i don't have any idea who to add:confused:
There's a second file attached. If you finish a game, you get ranked by asian names (so the highest score is Ashoka the Great instead of Augustus Caesar etc.). Let's see what you think.

So here are my plans for the patch:
I want to give every civ its UP and UHV except for mongols, they will be dealt with in the next version.[...]

Did you want to say that you got ideas for every UP and UHV that's missing or you won't release the next patch unless you got a UP and UHVs for everyone?

merijn_v1
Nov 21, 2010, 09:31 AM
I hope the first option. :D

Black Whole
Nov 22, 2010, 01:31 PM
:confused: I thought i read it somewhere. Once again, i got tricked by my own mind.
EDIT:It was here (http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilization: _Europe_civilizations), but i misunderstood.
Instead, i'm trying to research and provide a list of GP names

According to what?

Just an idea for an UHV i got while making the japanese GP list (ninjas involved!): Get a specific amount of espionage points (2000 or so) towards all other civs, which means sending an army of ninjas to China, Vietnam and so on.
But it's a little childish.
Nevermind.


I can hardly wait:run:

I think this could be the first birman UHV:
Build 3 Stupas, Wats and Buddha Statues in 1060. Yeah, i know that it's exactly what i discribed as "too generic and rather boring", but wait. First, it's historical, because it's in Anawrathas reign, who had a relativly big Birma and Buddhism has been established until then.
Second, it's more accurate in the gameplay. It keeps you from building wonders from the start (no Jokhang, Potala Palace etc. in Birma), and you won't have all that much specialists in the cities (at least i didn't) too early. And it's doable.
If you like it, here's the code (copy-paste):
i1060AD = con.i1060AD

if (iGameTurn == i1060AD):
if (self.getGoal(iMyanmar, 0) == -1):
iCounterStatue = 0
iCounterStupa = 0
iCounterWat = 0
cityList = PyPlayer(iMyanmar).getCityList()
for city in cityList:
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistBuddha)):
iCounterStatue += 1
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistStupa)):
iCounterStupa += 1
if (city.hasBuilding(con.iBuddhistWat)):
iCounterWat += 1
if (iCounterStatue >= 3 and iCounterStupa >= 3 and iCounterWat >= 3):
self.setGoal(iMyanmar, 0, 1)
if (iGameTurn == i1060AD+1):
if (self.getGoal(iMyanmar, 0) == -1):
self.setGoal(iMyanmar, 0, 0)Don't forget to adjust const.py, but whom am i telling;)

Thanks, I used the code and increased it to 4 because of the Birman UP.

I'll use the GP list and add a standard like vanilla just with other names for now... we can still diversify it later.
I meant, that I didn't know if I should leave Japan's starting date as it is, or move it to a later date...

Looks okay, though I say rename the UU to Balangay as civ addicted proposed (though I am not in for his UU's bonuses).

I agree with veBear here, I would also name it Balangay. And the bonus civ-addicted mentioned is nice, but the AI doesn't know how to use it... And my AI programming skills are far under the earth :p.

If you want to include the names of the list I gave, DON'T. It is a list of only European GP's. But if you had an other list in mind, please include them. Don't worry, I saw that they were european :lol:. I don't have a special list in mind, I will just add waht you post here.

the dynamic naming on the patch doesnt seem to be working properly, all it does is have the civ's name as people. Like Zhou people, Qin people, or Korean people Hmm, I don't have this problem and as nobody posted about it, the others seem to experience no problem.. If you mean during the loading time, then that's intended, otherwise, could you post under which circumstances you experienced it?

Here is text and translation for the Harrapan Civ. (you only have to change the text and put in in a .xml file) + a suggestion for the (Tibetan) Khampha Horseman art. Thanks! I'll look into it :).

Here are the GP names.
Because the ghaznavid UHVs there are more persian artists. I don't know which korean UHVs you've chosen, but science gonna be a part of it, so there are more korean scolars. The only thing that isn't complete are great spies' names. Atm there are just japanese ninjas, otherwise i don't have any idea who to add
There's a second file attached. If you finish a game, you get ranked by asian names (so the highest score is Ashoka the Great instead of Augustus Caesar etc.). Let's see what you think.

Did you want to say that you got ideas for every UP and UHV that's missing or you won't release the next patch unless you got a UP and UHVs for everyone?
I'll add them right away!

I meant both: I have ideas for UPs and UHVs and want to include them, so you can tell me what you thinka bout them... Because after that, the next version could take quite a while...

merijn_v1
Nov 22, 2010, 01:40 PM
I meant both: I have ideas for UPs and UHVs and want to include them, so you can tell me what you thinka bout them... Because after that, the next version could take quite a while...

Could you please post them, so we can give our opinions about them. (I don't want to wait until the next version.)

veBear
Nov 22, 2010, 02:34 PM
Could you please post them, so we can give our opinions about them. (I don't want to wait until the next version.)

Yes please :)

Opera
Nov 22, 2010, 03:33 PM
I'm having trouble downloading Patch A from the website you uploaded it on, not sure why. Would you (or someone else) mind making a mirror for it?

Baron03
Nov 22, 2010, 05:42 PM
sorry about the problem but i accidently misplaced a few folders/files, but i have it fixed now. thanks anyway

Black Whole
Nov 23, 2010, 08:57 AM
All additions/changes are written in italic.

Harappa
Power of Sanitation
Cities only suffer one half of the population unhealthiness.
Be the first to research City Planning.
Build the Great Bath, Great Granary and Great Harbor wonders.
Don't lose a city until 600AD (turn 224).


Zhou
Power of Mandate of Heaven
The Zhou start with the Mandate of Heaven.
Build and own at least two coastal cities at the Chinese coast by the year 221 BC (turn 122)
Accumulate at least 3500 culture in your empire by 221 BC (turn 122)
Found Taoism and Confucianism


Tocharian
Power of Silk Road
Cotton and Gems can be traded via Silk Route
Build a route to China before 100 AD
Own at least 3 Camel resources before 400 AD
Spread Buddhism to all of your cities by 450 AD


Maurya
The power of Buddhism:
Buddhist Wats are auto-constructed upon spread
Spread Buddhism to 3 cities you do not control until 200 AD
Ensure that there are no other cities in Persia and the Indus Valley by 400 AD
Ensure that there are no other cities in Persia and India by 500 AD

Vietnam
Power of Guerilla Warfare
All Recon, Archer and Melee units have an attack bonus when in Forests, Jungles and Hills.
Own 6 sea-based resources until XY AD
Allow no Chinese cities in Southern China in XY AD
Have the highest score in 1000 AD

Qin
The Power of the Myriad Army:
Units gain more experience in combat with barbarians (up to 20).
(does not work properly, maybe something else)
Claim the Mandate of Heaven until 220 AD
Construct the Great Wall, Sun Tzu's Art of War and the Terracotta Army by 220 AD
Own 70 units in the year 220 AD

Korea
The Power of Naval Warfare:
Ships have 25% against other ships. (boring I know, but you couldn't settle your discussion :lol:)
Goals already coded!
Research Seafaring and Fireworks until 1000 AD
Sink 20 ships until 1000 AD
Control Korea and the Yellow Sea until 1100 AD

Chola
The Power of the Cultural Dominance:
Newly conquered or settled territory will fall under your control. (similar to Turkey UP)
Construct 3 Hindu wonders by 1100 AD
Have 10 Open Borders agreements in the year 1100 AD
Conquer or vassalize all of Myanmar and Sri Vijaya by 1300 AD

Japan
The Power of Honor:
All military land units have a bonus in city defending (should be changed, I find it rather dull, especially because Japan doesn't fight land wars that often...)
Have at least 6 Jinja, 6 Torii and 6 Buddhist Wat by 1160 AD
Own three cities in Korea and south of Okinawa by 1000 AD
Get 3 Great Generals by 1200 AD


Chalukya Already coded!
The Power of Deccan Arts:
Upon city conquest, your capital gains a free Artist.
Settle three Great Artists in your capital by 1000 AD
Own at least 50 percent of India in 1120 AD
Be the most cultured empire in 1200 AD

Gokturks
The power of Otuken:
Each city starts with the second cultural expansion.
Have the biggest empire in 750 AD
Have the most revealed land map in 750 AD
Be the most productive civ in 1200 AD

Tibet
Power of Tibetan Plateau
All hill tiles give an additional food.
Control all hill tiles in the Himalaya region (XY AD)
Have access to the Sea of Bengalen (XY AD)
Allow no non-buddhist empire... something along thse lines


Khmer
The Power of Monsoon: (already coded!)
Wenn an improvement is build on a jungle tile, the tile gets +1 food.
Make Angkor the largest city in Asia by 1200 AD
Own 2 Hindu and 2 Buddhist wonders by 1200 AD
Be the most populous empire in 1300 AD


Tang
The power of Technology:
Unkown techs cost 25% less.
Spread Buddhism in all of China until 960 AD
Be the most technologically advanced empire in 960 AD
Unify China under your rule until 1200 AD
Goals already coded!)


Sri Vijaya
The Power of Tributary States:
All coastal cities have an additional trade route.
Accumluate 9000 gold in the year 1100 AD
Offer the biggest resource diversity in the year 1200 AD
Own eight cities outside of Sumatra in 1290 AD


Nanzhao (already coded!)
The Power of Multiethnic Society:
All coastal cities have an additional trade route.
Make Dali the biggest city in Asia in 1000AD
Settle all religions in Dali in 1100 AD
Conquer or vassalize either Birma and Vietnam or Tibet by 1200 AD


Birma
The Power of Monk Kings:
State Religion buildings cost 50% less.
Have 4 Wats, Buddha Sculptures and Stupas in 1060 AD
Don't lose a city before 1300 AD
Live at least 30 turns of Golden Age
Goals already coded!


Ghaznavids
The Power of Persian Literature: still trying to fix that
Libraries, Schools and Universities add additional culture to the city.
Control Persia and Punjab in 1200 AD
Have a total culture of 12000 in 1200 AD
Make sure that every city has at least 1700 culture in 1300 AD

Jurchen
Power of Horsemanship
Mounted units receive defensive bonus.
Have at least XY mounted units
Control Northern China in XY
Claim the Mandate of Heaven


Mongolia
The Power of the Horde:
Keshiks spawn in the Mongolian steppe.

Sultanate of Delhi
The Power of Prey:
All non-state religions are removed and gold will be gained on city conquest.
Spread Islam to 30%
Own 5 world wonders in 1500 AD
Unite India under your rule in the year 1500 AD
Goals already coded!

Majapahit

The power of Thalassocracy:
Reduced distance maintenace for cities. Control 6 spice and incense resources by the year 1450
Colonize the following areas by 1450: Java, Sunda isles, Sumatra, Borneo, Guinea, Sulawesi, Philippines, Malakka
Allow no other Indo-Chinese cities in Indonesia by 1500

Ming

The power of Bureaucracy:
??
Be the most agricultural empire in 1580 AD
Be the first to complete the tech tree
Destroy or vassalize the steppe civs

@Baron03:
No problem, I will try to move to an installer soon... (hopefully :p)

@Opera: Doesn't rapidshare work for you, then? I will upload the next patch to filefront if that's okay for the others.

merijn_v1
Nov 23, 2010, 09:27 AM
All additions/changes are written in italic.

Harappa
Power of Sanitation
Cities only suffer one half of the population unhealthiness.
Be the first to research City Planning.
Build the Great Bath, Great Granary and Great Harbor wonders.
Don't lose a city until 600AD (turn 224).


Zhou
Power of Mandate of Heaven
The Zhou start with the Mandate of Heaven.
Build and own at least two coastal cities at the Chinese coast by the year 221 BC (turn 122)
Accumulate at least 3500 culture in your empire by 221 BC (turn 122)
Found Taoism and Confucianism


Tocharian
Power of Silk Road
Cotton and Gems can be traded via Silk Route
Build a route to China before 100 AD
Own at least 3 Camel resources before 400 AD
Spread Buddhism to all of your cities by 450 AD


Maurya
The power of Buddhism:
Buddhist Wats are auto-constructed upon spread
Spread Buddhism to 3 cities you do not control until 200 AD
Ensure that there are no other cities in Persia and the Indus Valley by 400 AD
Ensure that there are no other cities in Persia and India by 500 AD

Vietnam
Power of Guerilla Warfare
All Recon, Archer and Melee units have an attack bonus when in Forests, Jungles and Hills.
Own 6 sea-based resources until XY AD
Allow no Chinese cities in Southern China in XY AD
Have the highest score in 1000 AD

Qin
The Power of the Myriad Army:
Units gain more experience in combat with barbarians (up to 20).
(does not work properly, maybe something else)
Claim the Mandate of Heaven until 220 AD
Construct the Great Wall, Sun Tzu's Art of War and the Terracotta Army by 220 AD
Own 70 units in the year 220 AD

Korea
The Power of Naval Warfare:
Ships have 25% against other ships. (boring I know, but you couldn't settle your discussion :lol:)
Goals already coded!
Research Seafaring and Fireworks until 1000 AD
Sink 20 ships until 1000 AD
Control Korea and the Yellow Sea until 1100 AD

Chola
The Power of the Cultural Dominance:
Newly conquered or settled territory will fall under your control. (similar to Turkey UP)
Construct 3 Hindu wonders by 1100 AD
Have 10 Open Borders agreements in the year 1100 AD
Conquer or vassalize all of Myanmar and Sri Vijaya by 1300 AD

Japan
The Power of Honor:
All military land units have a bonus in city defending (should be changed, I find it rather dull, especially because Japan doesn't fight land wars that often...)
Have at least 6 Jinja, 6 Torii and 6 Buddhist Wat by 1160 AD
Own three cities in Korea and south of Okinawa by 1000 AD
Get 3 Great Generals by 1200 AD


Chalukya Already coded!
The Power of Deccan Arts:
Upon city conquest, your capital gains a free Artist.
Settle three Great Artists in your capital by 1000 AD
Own at least 50 percent of India in 1120 AD
Be the most cultured empire in 1200 AD

Gokturks
The power of Otuken:
Each city starts with the second cultural expansion.
Have the biggest empire in 750 AD
Have the most revealed land map in 750 AD
Be the most productive civ in 1200 AD

Tibet
Power of Tibetan Plateau
All hill tiles give an additional food.
Control all hill tiles in the Himalaya region (XY AD)
Have access to the Sea of Bengalen (XY AD)
Allow no non-buddhist empire... something along thse lines


Khmer
The Power of Monsoon: (already coded!)
Wenn an improvement is build on a jungle tile, the tile gets +1 food.
Make Angkor the largest city in Asia by 1200 AD
Own 2 Hindu and 2 Buddhist wonders by 1200 AD
Be the most populous empire in 1300 AD


Tang
The power of Technology:
Unkown techs cost 25% less.
Spread Buddhism in all of China until 960 AD
Be the most technologically advanced empire in 960 AD
Unify China under your rule until 1200 AD
Goals already coded!)


Sri Vijaya
The Power of Tributary States:
All coastal cities have an additional trade route.
Accumluate 9000 gold in the year 1100 AD
Offer the biggest resource diversity in the year 1200 AD
Own eight cities outside of Sumatra in 1290 AD


Nanzhao (already coded!)
The Power of Multiethnic Society:
All coastal cities have an additional trade route.
Make Dali the biggest city in Asia in 1000AD
Settle all religions in Dali in 1100 AD
Conquer or vassalize either Birma and Vietnam or Tibet by 1200 AD


Birma
The Power of Monk Kings:
State Religion buildings cost 50% less.
Have 4 Wats, Buddha Sculptures and Stupas in 1060 AD
Don't lose a city before 1300 AD
Live at least 30 turns of Golden Age
Goals already coded!


Ghaznavids
The Power of Persian Literature: still trying to fix that
Libraries, Schools and Universities add additional culture to the city.
Control Persia and Punjab in 1200 AD
Have a total culture of 12000 in 1200 AD
Make sure that every city has at least 1700 culture in 1300 AD

Jurchen
Power of Horsemanship
Mounted units receive defensive bonus.
Have at least XY mounted units
Control Northern China in XY
Claim the Mandate of Heaven


Mongolia
The Power of the Horde:
Keshiks spawn in the Mongolian steppe.

Sultanate of Delhi
The Power of Prey:
All non-state religions are removed and gold will be gained on city conquest.
Spread Islam to 30%
Own 5 world wonders in 1500 AD
Unite India under your rule in the year 1500 AD
Goals already coded!

Majapahit

The power of Thalassocracy:
Reduced distance maintenace for cities. Control 6 spice and incense resources by the year 1450
Colonize the following areas by 1450: Java, Sunda isles, Sumatra, Borneo, Guinea, Sulawesi, Philippines, Malakka
Allow no other Indo-Chinese cities in Indonesia by 1500

Ming

The power of Bureaucracy:
??
Be the most agricultural empire in 1580 AD
Be the first to complete the tech tree
Destroy or vassalize the steppe civs

Nice. I like them. But I have some comments:

Korea:
"Research Seafaring and Fireworks until 1000 AD" - Shouldn't it be: "Research Seafaring and Fireworks before 1000 AD"?
"Control Korea and the Yellow Sea until 1100 AD" - Shouldn't it be: "Control Korea and the Yellow Sea in/by 1100 AD"?

Tibet:
The last UHV is nearly impossible. But I agree it really should be something with buddhism.

Tang:
I don't like the UP. It sound too overpowered to me. Could you please explain what you exactly mean by "unknown"? (in other words, less costs for techs you haven't researched yourself or less costs for techs that aren't researched by anyone)

The "U"P of Sri Vijaya and Nanzhao are exactly the same. (or it's a typo and you meant: Less unhappiness and stability from non-state religions.")

veBear
Nov 23, 2010, 09:28 AM
I think it was earlier in this thread mentioned that the Ming had a strong agricultural growth. So what about '+1 food on all rice, wheat (insert other food resources here) upon the discovery of (insert fitting tech here)' as UP. Another option could be '+1 food in capital for every agricultural resource controlled', though this might be hard to code.

As you can see, I do not remember all the resources in china, but then again, who does :p

Also, any plans on the final phillipine civ stats?

merijn_v1
Nov 23, 2010, 09:33 AM
I think it was earlier in this thread mentioned that the Ming had a strong agricultural growth. So what about '+1 food on all rice, wheat (insert other food resources here) upon the discovery of (insert fitting tech here)' as UP. Another option could be '+1 food in capital for every agricultural resource controlled', though this might be hard to code.

As you can see, I do not remember all the resources in china, but then again, who does :p

Also, any plans on the final phillipine civ stats?

Do you mean with other food resources bananas, citrus etc. (So also plantation food resources)? If yes, I like it. But I think the sea-food resources (like fish) should be left out.

An other (more easy to code, I think) possibility for the UHV is:
+ 1 food/commerce on all farms.

veBear
Nov 23, 2010, 09:36 AM
I thought of only land resources.

civ-addicted
Nov 23, 2010, 12:56 PM
Spreading Shinto to every japanese city is already something like an UP, isn't it?:mischief:

What happened to the extra output per specialist for Korea? You wanted to use it for Tang, but they got something else.

Instead of owning 50% of India for Chalukya, what about "Own 10 buildings of minor religions in 1120 AD"? You will conquer India anyway because of the UP, and Chalukya is the first option for that. It's just a shame that minor religions don't appear anywhere...

I don't think that founding a single city at the sea is enough for a UHV for Tibet. I still like conquering or vassalizing Birma and Nanzhao better.
"Don't allow non-buddhist empires in south-east asia" is a possible 3rd goal, which means converting Vietnam and sometimes Khmer. But "Build 3 Buddhist Wonders" is still possible.
Did you make a new UP for Tibet? You said something like extra :food: per pasture and camp.

I'm dying to play the next patch. How long do you make us wait?

merijn_v1
Nov 24, 2010, 01:03 PM
After some search I think I've found a proper name for the Jurchen UU. A nice name for them is: "Khitan Cavalry"

civ-addicted
Nov 25, 2010, 05:29 AM
If you want something that works for Qin, try this: Let them start with with Autocracy and Military civic. It's both historical (Qin was a really repressive state) and useful in the gameplay (Drafting). The name could stay the same.
Not that i don't like the current one, it still can be used later if you fix it, but you seem to want something that works for the next patch.

A name for the somehow existing japanese UP could be "Power of Ancestor Worship"

The second and third UHV of Maurya are almost the same. What about "own 2 shrines in 200 AD" as the second one?

Spreading Buddhism to foreign cities can also be used for Tibet. Tibetian Buddhism (Vajyarana) is common among mongols and in india.
But i recommend a high number like 10 cities or so, without time limit.

Would you mind bringing the Nestorian Missionary back? atm, the church is too weak compared to the other buildings, and this way, you will less likely to be able to build the Nestorian See. It's just to add another unique thing.

Black Whole
Nov 26, 2010, 06:58 AM
Nice. I like them. But I have some comments:

Korea:
"Research Seafaring and Fireworks until 1000 AD" - Shouldn't it be: "Research Seafaring and Fireworks before 1000 AD"?
"Control Korea and the Yellow Sea until 1100 AD" - Shouldn't it be: "Control Korea and the Yellow Sea in/by 1100 AD"?

Tibet:
The last UHV is nearly impossible. But I agree it really should be something with buddhism.

Tang:
I don't like the UP. It sound too overpowered to me. Could you please explain what you exactly mean by "unknown"? (in other words, less costs for techs you haven't researched yourself or less costs for techs that aren't researched by anyone)

The "U"P of Sri Vijaya and Nanzhao are exactly the same. (or it's a typo and you meant: Less unhappiness and stability from non-state religions.")

Thanks, I fixed the text. The Tibet UHV was just somaething along those lines... I know that it would be impossible :).
For Tang I imagined, that every tech, that isn't known by anybody, should cost less until you reach modern era.
And yeaah the Nanzhao UP should be the religion thing :).

About Ming UP: Hmm I think that it would be okay... but the food from farms is represented by the tech 'crop rotation'. I would tend to the commerce....

Philippine civ:
Basically what Baron03 posted earlier...
UU: Balangay, a better transport
UB: no idea, I am still considering what would fit them. The UB Baron03 proposed is too similar to the Nanzhao Silo.
UHV:
1. Have 5 embassies in XY.
2. Be the richest civ in XY.
3: Have the most trade routes? (It just occurred to me, I don't know if it's possible for them at all)
UP:
This one could be hard... I have no idea for now.

Spreading Shinto to every japanese city is already something like an UP, isn't it?

What happened to the extra output per specialist for Korea? You wanted to use it for Tang, but they got something else.

Instead of owning 50% of India for Chalukya, what about "Own 10 buildings of minor religions in 1120 AD"? You will conquer India anyway because of the UP, and Chalukya is the first option for that. It's just a shame that minor religions don't appear anywhere...

I don't think that founding a single city at the sea is enough for a UHV for Tibet. I still like conquering or vassalizing Birma and Nanzhao better.
"Don't allow non-buddhist empires in south-east asia" is a possible 3rd goal, which means converting Vietnam and sometimes Khmer. But "Build 3 Buddhist Wonders" is still possible.
Did you make a new UP for Tibet? You said something like extra per pasture and camp.

I'm dying to play the next patch. How long do you make us wait?
Yeah, the Shinto thing is actually a good UP :).

I can give the specialists to Korea, but what did you have in mind? I can't give them extra beakers (or just very complicated through python), only add a general percentage, which increases their output. But that would influence all of them.

I included the rest as you proposed (slightly modified though :)).

I hope to be done next weekend... the UPs and UHVs are almost done, I only need to calculate the research rates/costs...

If you want something that works for Qin, try this: Let them start with with Autocracy and Military civic. It's both historical (Qin was a really repressive state) and useful in the gameplay (Drafting). The name could stay the same.
Not that i don't like the current one, it still can be used later if you fix it, but you seem to want something that works for the next patch.

A name for the somehow existing japanese UP could be "Power of Ancestor Worship"

The second and third UHV of Maurya are almost the same. What about "own 2 shrines in 200 AD" as the second one?

Spreading Buddhism to foreign cities can also be used for Tibet. Tibetian Buddhism (Vajyarana) is common among mongols and in india.
But i recommend a high number like 10 cities or so, without time limit.

Would you mind bringing the Nestorian Missionary back? atm, the church is too weak compared to the other buildings, and this way, you will less likely to be able to build the Nestorian See. It's just to add another unique thing.

Okay I will give Qin the UP you proposed.... but I want that the civ satrt with certain civics, so this could only be solution for a short time.
Hmm, is it really necessary to add the missionary? I got the impression, that the religions spread much too often and really crowd those cities... Maybe when I put a limit in, I can add him again.

On the matter of Buddhism:
I was thinking if it would be worth the effort to split Buddhism... And I came up with the following: Break Buddhism into Theravada and Mahayana... Vajrayana is based on Mahayana, so I think we can leave it out, especially since Tibet and Mongolia would be the only civs adopting it.
So this would give Maurya the new goal of owning three shrines.
And it would add a little bit of diversity, preventing a happy buddhist world, in which everyone likes each other.
But I don't know how to make them different enough... which wonders/buildings can be built by which religion? I will add it to my to-do list if nobody is against it.

civ-addicted
Nov 26, 2010, 09:12 AM
On the matter of Buddhism:
I was thinking if it would be worth the effort to split Buddhism... And I came up with the following: Break Buddhism into Theravada and Mahayana... Vajrayana is based on Mahayana, so I think we can leave it out, especially since Tibet and Mongolia would be the only civs adopting it.
So this would give Maurya the new goal of owning three shrines.
And it would add a little bit of diversity, preventing a happy buddhist world, in which everyone likes each other.
But I don't know how to make them different enough... which wonders/buildings can be built by which religion? I will add it to my to-do list if nobody is against it.I don't know about this. In RFCE, we got catholic<>protestant and in SoI Sunni<>Shia. In those cases, it's essential to split Christianity resp. Islam up, because there are enough examples for -even nowadays, sad enough- hate and wars within one religion.
But i havn't heard something like that in Buddhism.
If you split it up just for the sake of splitting it up, it seems to me that it's just copying a concept that players have already seen in other modmods (and maybe got tired off).
That's my honest opinion about that. But maybe again all-too-conservative.

Nevertheless, i've seen no shipyard in the modmod, so that could be the UB for Butuan, replacing the Blacksmith.

merijn_v1
Nov 26, 2010, 09:19 AM
I don't know about this. In RFCE, we got catholic<>protestant and in SoI Sunni<>Shia. In those cases, it's essential to split Christianity resp. Islam up, because there are enough examples for -even nowadays, sad enough- hate and wars within one religion.
But i havn't heard something like that in Buddhism.
If you split it up just for the sake of splitting it up, it seems to me that it's just copying a concept that players have already seen in other modmods (and maybe got tired off).
That's my honest opinion about that. But maybe again all-too-conservative.

Nevertheless, i've seen no shipyard in the modmod, so that could be the UB for Butuan, replacing the Blacksmith.

I think it's better to let it replace the Harbor/Fishery (I prefer the first). Otherwise it could be possible that you can't build it in all cities. (I suppose you only can build it in coastal cities) IMO, the UB becomes a disadvantage. (I'd rather have production than extra XP, production for ships)

Black Whole
Nov 26, 2010, 12:51 PM
I don't know about this. In RFCE, we got catholic<>protestant and in SoI Sunni<>Shia. In those cases, it's essential to split Christianity resp. Islam up, because there are enough examples for -even nowadays, sad enough- hate and wars within one religion.
But i havn't heard something like that in Buddhism.
If you split it up just for the sake of splitting it up, it seems to me that it's just copying a concept that players have already seen in other modmods (and maybe got tired off).
That's my honest opinion about that. But maybe again all-too-conservative.

Nevertheless, i've seen no shipyard in the modmod, so that could be the UB for Butuan, replacing the Blacksmith.

That's why I am not too happy with the addition of the split... it just seemed to me, that most were in favor of that, so I considered it... but I don't see many reasons to include it, because of the reasons you mentioned.

And for the Shipyard.... you know that there is a building with the exact same name? :p

King Coltrane
Nov 26, 2010, 07:45 PM
Hey I just downloaded this (have been meaning to for a while but ive been writing research papers) and started a game as Qin... Is the UHV even possible? I start with an army that is inferior to Zhou and think "its ok, ill just build up and train a powerful one". the main problem is that i can only build archers and warriors from the beginning, which obviously arent too strong. I wandered around defeating barbs for a bit to make the initial army stronger. finally when a few units have city raider i decide to attack Zhou. Their city Xing (north of the silk, 2 tiles south of the pigs, 2 west of the rice) has 4 archers and 2 light swordsmen, which is about the size of my entire army! i attack anyway and manage to only lose one unit, which is great! however their capital has the same size force and barb horsemen are pressing in the north of my new city. i leave a unit behind and press on. just for the sake of progressing, i worldbuildered myself some more units and took control of all of Zhou by about 150 ad (i forget exactly when). then i notice a HUGE problem! i have 7 turns to: finish researching military strategy (which is going to take 15 turns), research construction AND sculpture, build the terracotta army, sun tzu's art of war, and finish the great wall (which has 13 turns left and i cant hurry it because the pop of xian is only 6 and isnt enough, though i think i can whip this out before time is up) AND build around 60 units.

I honestly cant see a possible way to do any of that in the allotted time. sure i got the mandate of heaven and the GA but they didnt help at all. what good is no happiness penalty for whipping if i cant whip? also, it seems like a little bit of a waste to have all 3 UHV's end at the same date. that way you cant get the golden age for completing two of them.

anyway, i really am excited about this mod and cant wait to play as a chinese civ (in the meantime ill try someone else) but if you notice im doing something terribly wrong please let me know!

civ-addicted
Nov 27, 2010, 03:49 AM
And for the Shipyard.... you know that there is a building with the exact same name? :p

Godammit! Again?
They were known for gold mining, gold products etc.; what about an UB that provides 1 gold ressource each? Just like Hollywood provides 7 films.
A Goldsmith, replacing Artisian's Workshop. They will end up controlling the Philippines and northern Borneo, so about 7 cities providing one gold ressource each. Don't know if it's OP.

EDIT: @King Coltrane: Welcome!
Maurya and Sri Vijaya can be played properly. I got a little challenge for you: Instead of 9000 Gold in 1100, try to get as much as possible. My personal record is 13100:king:(on monarch).

Black Whole
Nov 27, 2010, 04:41 AM
Hey I just downloaded this (have been meaning to for a while but ive been writing research papers) and started a game as Qin... Is the UHV even possible? I start with an army that is inferior to Zhou and think "its ok, ill just build up and train a powerful one". the main problem is that i can only build archers and warriors from the beginning, which obviously arent too strong. I wandered around defeating barbs for a bit to make the initial army stronger. finally when a few units have city raider i decide to attack Zhou. Their city Xing (north of the silk, 2 tiles south of the pigs, 2 west of the rice) has 4 archers and 2 light swordsmen, which is about the size of my entire army! i attack anyway and manage to only lose one unit, which is great! however their capital has the same size force and barb horsemen are pressing in the north of my new city. i leave a unit behind and press on. just for the sake of progressing, i worldbuildered myself some more units and took control of all of Zhou by about 150 ad (i forget exactly when). then i notice a HUGE problem! i have 7 turns to: finish researching military strategy (which is going to take 15 turns), research construction AND sculpture, build the terracotta army, sun tzu's art of war, and finish the great wall (which has 13 turns left and i cant hurry it because the pop of xian is only 6 and isnt enough, though i think i can whip this out before time is up) AND build around 60 units.

I honestly cant see a possible way to do any of that in the allotted time. sure i got the mandate of heaven and the GA but they didnt help at all. what good is no happiness penalty for whipping if i cant whip? also, it seems like a little bit of a waste to have all 3 UHV's end at the same date. that way you cant get the golden age for completing two of them.

anyway, i really am excited about this mod and cant wait to play as a chinese civ (in the meantime ill try someone else) but if you notice im doing something terribly wrong please let me know!

Welcome in Asia! :)
I just thought about the Qin yesterday.
No, you are absolutely right, it is impossible since you have only 40 turns to have 70 units, build three wonders and destroy the zhou... not even the AI could do that :p.
I will move the spawn date of the Qin to 840 BC (the duchy of Qin), whcih would give you more time to finish the goals.

@civ-addicted: :lol: I thought you had such a good memory! Something replacing the Artisans Workshop sounds good. But one gold resource each, hmm... it would only make a difference if you want to trade... I think that it is okay, since it was their export product.

merijn_v1
Nov 27, 2010, 04:44 AM
Godammit! Again?
They were known for gold mining, gold products etc.; what about an UB that provides 1 gold ressource each? Just like Hollywood provides 7 films.
A Goldsmith, replacing Artisian's Workshop. They will end up controlling the Philippines and northern Borneo, so about 7 cities providing one gold ressource each. Don't know if it's OP.

EDIT: @King Coltrane: Welcome!
Maurya and Sri Vijaya can be played properly. I got a little challenge for you: Instead of 9000 Gold in 1100, try to get as much as possible. My personal record is 13100:king:(on monarch).

A more easier option for the goldsmith is giving it + 10-15%:gold: like the Mali Mint. (Or even better, +10%:gold: and another 5% with access to gold. But this is only fun when gold is in their home territory, especially if it isn't on their home-island so they have to settle other islands)

King Coltrane
Nov 27, 2010, 11:21 AM
haha glad im not incompetent/crazy. on the other hand i had a VERY successful game as Harappa. I founded Mohenjo-daro as my capital (instead of harappa) to get earlier access to stone and overall increased production. I ended up with tons of wonders by 600 AD and was able to hold off the persians with archers and citadels. One thing I would recommend is around 300 BC put some phalanxes/ heavier horsemen/ a great general in Alexandreia to better represent Alex. As it is its just endless Persian Empire attacking with Immortals. Maybe even switch it up after 300 bce to phalanx spawns instead of immortals? anyway, just suggestions.

i'll give it a shot civ-addicted. See what I can do!

veBear
Nov 27, 2010, 12:23 PM
Actually, the Harappans should have died by 300 BC... they stay alive way to long..

King Coltrane
Nov 27, 2010, 09:37 PM
well they should technically be gone around 1500 bce at the latest, but for the sake of gameplay i get it. i agree they seem to stay around too long, but when you play as them and the goal is to last to 600 ad, there are other things one could ask to see including alexanders petzhetairoi (foot companions) and hetairoi (companion cavalry) around 300 bce, then around 100 ad/ce horse archers (parthians and later sassanids)... more pressure should collapse them right?

The Turk
Nov 28, 2010, 02:05 AM
Seriously, in all honesty, I think the Harrapans could be just taken out, I don't think they really fit into the whole system very well IMO. They are a VERY Ancient civilization, and they disappear as well. I see them as contemporaries with the Mauryan Dynasty, and I cringe, its just too too unrealistic.

veBear
Nov 28, 2010, 03:46 AM
Major stability hit?

merijn_v1
Nov 28, 2010, 05:19 AM
I disagree with the Turk. They fit the empty room in the left of the map in the beginning. And it makes the game more diverse. Who cares that they are a very ancient civ. The Babylons, Egyptians are as well in vanilla RFC. And if Harrapa is left out, then the only civ for a long time is Zhou. Then it's better to start the game at a later time and let the Zhou start as Byzantium in RFCE.

The Turk
Nov 28, 2010, 07:52 AM
And if Harrapa is left out, then the only civ for a long time is Zhou. Then it's better to start the game at a later time and let the Zhou start as Byzantium in RFCE.

Excellent! Do it then! Look at SoI for example, its set on a very specific time period of the Middle East, the Medieval Ages Middle East. I would suggest that you cut out the Harapans and focus on the other civs that matter more, and concentrate on a smaller timeline, I think that would do wonders for this mod.

merijn_v1
Nov 28, 2010, 08:14 AM
Excellent! Do it then! Look at SoI for example, its set on a very specific time period of the Middle East, the Medieval Ages Middle East. I would suggest that you cut out the Harapans and focus on the other civs that matter more, and concentrate on a smaller timeline, I think that would do wonders for this mod.

You don't understand the coding effort for this, do you? And you are currently the only one that doesn't like the Harrapa. So I see no need deleting the only for one person.

Black Whole
Nov 28, 2010, 10:47 AM
A more easier option for the goldsmith is giving it + 10-15%:gold: like the Mali Mint. (Or even better, +10%:gold: and another 5% with access to gold. But this is only fun when gold is in their home territory, especially if it isn't on their home-island so they have to settle other islands)

Sounds good, and the gold resource would be exactly in their capital BFC :). But I like civ-addicted's idea too, since there are only very few gold resources after the redistribution... It would give them something to trade.

haha glad im not incompetent/crazy. on the other hand i had a VERY successful game as Harappa. I founded Mohenjo-daro as my capital (instead of harappa) to get earlier access to stone and overall increased production. I ended up with tons of wonders by 600 AD and was able to hold off the persians with archers and citadels. One thing I would recommend is around 300 BC put some phalanxes/ heavier horsemen/ a great general in Alexandreia to better represent Alex. As it is its just endless Persian Empire attacking with Immortals. Maybe even switch it up after 300 bce to phalanx spawns instead of immortals? anyway, just suggestions.

i'll give it a shot civ-addicted. See what I can do!

I alsow thought to include alexander and some troops... but the time span seemed just to short... But something SoI-style with a commander would be cool ;). And while we are talking about barbs...
I managed to make them invade earlier!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! This had to be said :D.
Zhou and Harappe rarely survive until 0AD, I even fear, they are too rampant ATM razing and pillaging everything.

Excellent! Do it then! Look at SoI for example, its set on a very specific time period of the Middle East, the Medieval Ages Middle East. I would suggest that you cut out the Harapans and focus on the other civs that matter more, and concentrate on a smaller timeline, I think that would do wonders for this mod.
First, you seemingly don't like the Harappa. Fine. But that isn't reason enough for me to exclude them, especially since you didn't propose, which civ would be more important to replace them.
The next thing is this: The coding effort would be terrible... and I have so mayn things I want to include, and that would just postpone them unnecessarily.
Just so you know, what I need to modify to accomplish that:
- Remove the Harappa civ and every little hint that points to them in DLL, python, XML... easily a task for over 5 hours.
- Redesign the tech tree and rebalance the tech costs... again 5 hours.
- Remove and add buildings and wonders, to fit the new timeline, same for units... 5 hours.
- Redo the timeline and the according references... 1-2 hours.
- and some things I can't think of atm...
Additionally, the game needss at least two major civs, that are alive, otherwise it won't work. So just taking them out wouldn't help at all.

I know that you love the SoI mod, but it has different timelines and design concepts... so you cannot compare it to RFCA.

Major stability hit? You proposed that already several times, didn't you? :lol: But don't worry, I don't think it is necessary, now that the barbs are more aggressive.

veBear
Nov 28, 2010, 12:25 PM
You proposed that already several times, didn't you? :lol: But don't worry, I don't think it is necessary, now that the barbs are more aggressive.

Sounds good... now I do not have to be afraid of compleatly turn History of its wheels anymore ;)

civ-addicted
Nov 28, 2010, 01:56 PM
I managed to make them invade earlier!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! This had to be said :D.
Zhou and Harappe rarely survive until 0AD, I even fear, they are too rampant ATM razing and pillaging everything.Now that are great news!:goodjob:

The Turk
Nov 29, 2010, 07:17 AM
First, you seemingly don't like the Harappa. Fine.

Its not because I hate the Harappan that I want to remove them, its because when you see the Harappan civilization last until Alexander the Greats invasion, its a bit ridiculous, and extremely ahistorical and strange. The fact of the matter is, that Alexander the Great did not attack any civilization in this mod, his invasion led to the Mauryan Empire. By then the Harappan civilization had been destroyed for hundreds of years, I would strongly suggest just increasing barbarian Aryan horse archer attacks on the Harrapans. In truth though, I don't know who Alexander the Great's empire is supposed to be attacking in this mod? A few city-states? As for the Persians, I have absolutely no idea what they are doing in this game; Persia never launched a full scale invasion of India.

For more info on Alexander's Invasion of India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander%27s_Indian_campaign

veBear
Nov 29, 2010, 08:54 AM
I managed to make them invade earlier!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! This had to be said :D.
Zhou and Harappe rarely survive until 0AD, I even fear, they are too rampant ATM razing and pillaging everything.

No need to quarrel about that anymore. Problem solved.

merijn_v1
Nov 29, 2010, 11:56 AM
Its not because I hate the Harappan that I want to remove them, its because when you see the Harappan civilization last until Alexander the Greats invasion, its a bit ridiculous, and extremely ahistorical and strange. The fact of the matter is, that Alexander the Great did not attack any civilization in this mod, his invasion led to the Mauryan Empire. By then the Harappan civilization had been destroyed for hundreds of years, I would strongly suggest just increasing barbarian Aryan horse archer attacks on the Harrapans. In truth though, I don't know who Alexander the Great's empire is supposed to be attacking in this mod? A few city-states? As for the Persians, I have absolutely no idea what they are doing in this game; Persia never launched a full scale invasion of India.

For more info on Alexander's Invasion of India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander%27s_Indian_campaign

If that is the only reason, you just have to be patient. This mod is still under construction. IIRC, we want that everything works properly first (Like UHV/UP). Then, we will balance the game. Which includes the fall of the civs.

And maybe, we didn't have time to include Alexander's campains yet. Please be patient.

civ-addicted
Nov 29, 2010, 03:02 PM
I'm just curious: What's Pixian supposed to represent?

Black Whole
Dec 04, 2010, 02:36 PM
Its not because I hate the Harappan that I want to remove them, its because when you see the Harappan civilization last until Alexander the Greats invasion, its a bit ridiculous, and extremely ahistorical and strange. The fact of the matter is, that Alexander the Great did not attack any civilization in this mod, his invasion led to the Mauryan Empire. By then the Harappan civilization had been destroyed for hundreds of years, I would strongly suggest just increasing barbarian Aryan horse archer attacks on the Harrapans. In truth though, I don't know who Alexander the Great's empire is supposed to be attacking in this mod? A few city-states? As for the Persians, I have absolutely no idea what they are doing in this game; Persia never launched a full scale invasion of India.

For more info on Alexander's Invasion of India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander%27s_Indian_campaign

I already made the Aryans attack earlier... How about a minor civ forming the Seleukid empire? Like the Zengids in SoI?

I'm just curious: What's Pixian supposed to represent?
Pixian was a settlement near Chengdu, I misread it as an earlier name of Chengdu... I will rename it.

Patch B is up! See the second post for changelog. I want to hear about your opinions on the tech costs and the barb density. Of course, the new UHV and UP should also be tested ;).

civ-addicted
Dec 04, 2010, 04:45 PM
Thank God!
First: Like the new map design.
So, i've started a Tocharian Monarch game. I didn't got the 3rd one in time, but i will try again someday.
Then i started a Harappan Monarch game and got screwed by barbarians after some minutes. Mmmh, this will be fun. Then i completed Harappans on Viceroy to cheer me up;)
I like what you did with the Harappans on Monarch, but on Viceroy it seems that there are too few barbarians (i know, it's meant to be easy, but come on)
Anyway, it seems like the first really playable version. I'm looking forward to play even more:goodjob:

The Turk
Dec 04, 2010, 10:03 PM
I already made the Aryans attack earlier... How about a minor civ forming the Seleukid empire? Like the Zengids in SoI?

That sounds great! Adding them as a minor power, would be useful, rather than having them as wondering barbarian nomads : P

Patch B is up!

Cool! And good work! :goodjob:

As for Japan's and Koreas UHV:
Japan: Why on earth do they need to build a city in the Philippines?? The Japanese did not EVEN land on the Philippines until WW2
Korea: Whats up with this sinking 20 ships? Not the best, their must be better ones. As for having to control the Yellow Sea, well thats just crazy, I think just uniting Korea, and not losing a city to Barbs or the Japanese, would be better.

merijn_v1
Dec 05, 2010, 04:36 AM
That sounds great! Adding them as a minor power, would be useful, rather than having them as wondering barbarian nomads : P



Cool! And good work! :goodjob:

As for Japan's and Koreas UHV:
Japan: Why on earth do they need to build a city in the Philippines?? The Japanese did not EVEN land on the Philippines until WW2
Korea: Whats up with this sinking 20 ships? Not the best, their must be better ones. As for having to control the Yellow Sea, well thats just crazy, I think just uniting Korea, and not losing a city to Barbs or the Japanese, would be better.

For the UHV of Japan and Korea.
Not all UHV has to be completely historical correct. In vanilla RFC, there are some UHV which are historical as well. (like the Spanish UHV: Don't allow any English, French or Dutch colony in the Americas, or the Roman UHV: Don't lose a city to the Barbarian until 1000AD) The UHV can also be something that the respective civs could have done. BTW, I think those UHV are much funnier to play. And that is (IMO) even more important than a complete historical UHV.

Funny, you suggested the UHV of sinking X ship by yourself. (post 440) Don't you like them anymore?
Uniting Korea isn't very hard. Just build 2 cities in Korea and you are finished. Not a proper victory condition for me.


@ Black Whole

Some "bugs" I found when looking in the civilopedia. (I didn't start a game yet due lack of free time)
- The Harrapan text doesn't work. You will have to change the tag in the XML. Same problem for the Majahapit text. (Maybe for other texts too, but I didn't searched for that)
- The Caitra Tribute doesn't show up in the civilopedia properly.
- The lumbermill is still in the game.
- The Terrace still produces a food when next to a river. (Or did it produce 2 food next to a river and you reduced it to 1)
- I can't see in the civilopedia that ships and siege units are faster produced with Timber.

But anyway, :goodjob:

The Turk
Dec 05, 2010, 05:01 AM
For the UHV of Japan and Korea.
Not all UHV has to be completely historical correct. In vanilla RFC, there are some UHV which are historical as well. (like the Spanish UHV: Don't allow any English, French or Dutch colony in the Americas, or the Roman UHV: Don't lose a city to the Barbarian until 1000AD) The UHV can also be something that the respective civs could have done. BTW, I think those UHV are much funnier to play. And that is (IMO) even more important than a complete historical UHV.

Funny, you suggested the UHV of sinking X ship by yourself. (post 440) Don't you like them anymore?
Uniting Korea isn't very hard. Just build 2 cities in Korea and you are finished. Not a proper victory condition for me.


Ok, well, IIRC the Koreans NEVER tried to invade outside of Korea, and would have never clashed with China. I definitely think a better UHV is in order.
The ships was an idea I made, if nothing else worked out.
And the thing that MOST annoys me about Korea AND Japan, is that uniting them is VERY VERY VERY easy. This was the work of many great men, who struggled to unite their respective countries. In this game, there IS no competition! There are not competing cities in Japan or Korea, that would actually slow down your growth, which most definitely SHOULD be the case. Thats why the Unite Korea and make sure no one take a city, SHOULD and WOULD be a good UHV, and I wish you would make it so.

merijn_v1
Dec 05, 2010, 05:34 AM
Ok, well, IIRC the Koreans NEVER tried to invade outside of Korea, and would have never clashed with China. I definitely think a better UHV is in order.
The ships was an idea I made, if nothing else worked out.
And the thing that MOST annoys me about Korea AND Japan, is that uniting them is VERY VERY VERY easy. This was the work of many great men, who struggled to unite their respective countries. In this game, there IS no competition! There are not competing cities in Japan or Korea, that would actually slow down your growth, which most definitely SHOULD be the case. Thats why the Unite Korea and make sure no one take a city, SHOULD and WOULD be a good UHV, and I wish you would make it so.

The Roman NEVER (read DIDN'T) lose a city the the barbs until 1000AD either. This kind of UHV is that the player should archieve something that the respective civ never tried/failed, or anything.

If I understand you well, you say that the Koreans should unite the Peninsula (spelling???) first and than don't lose a city until a certain date? It sounds nice, but f you say it in gameplay terms. you'll get: "Build 2 cities in Korea (then you have united Korea) and never lose those 2 cities." (just build walls and castles and you're done) I don't see any fun in that UHV.

civ-addicted
Dec 05, 2010, 09:30 AM
I just tried a game as Tibet, and there are some complaints:
First, the 3rd UHV doesn't work. I changed some stuff (some errors are pretty obvious), but didn't get to make it work:(
Second, their UB is to strong. A free Artist can provide a lot of culture and makes the first UHV too easy; a free artist slot could do it.
Third, their UU is too strong, or at least has too much effects. Starting with Guerilla I is enough.
Does Buddhism have an UP? If it hasn't, it could increase the amount of missionaries you can have, or make them cross borders without OB, so you can spread Buddhism to independent cities.

But don't think that i didn't enjoy playing them. Especially the second UHV is fun:D

EDIT:
@The Turk: If you say that uniting Korea and Japan is too easy, you're more pointing out a problem of RFC itself. If you play as Rome fe, Mediolanum flips immediatly. In real life, it wasn't really a piece of cake to conquer the Po Valley. And as the game goes on, you can conquer celtic France without casualties. That's not exactly how it was either. But in the game it's fine. In Rome:TW, you can command your units in the battlefield; so according to micromanagment, Rome:TW is far more realistic. That is pretty much the only way to show what effort it takes to conquer something.
Or take Constantinople. There isn't really a useful tool to show the player: This city is impregnable until the mid 15th century. And even with those huge bombards there will be enormous casualties.

Anyway, i just finished a Harappan game on monarch.
If you're not prepared (and the AI isn't), the barbarians will most certainly conquer the Indus Valley. This problem is definitly solved (at least on monarch). After including a barb Alexander invasion, i'd even say that Harappa is complete. I don't see a need for a non-playable Seleukid civ.

Has anyone ever suceeded in the 3500:culture: Zhou UHV? The highest i got was 2700~2800 and i have no idea how to get more...

merijn_v1
Dec 06, 2010, 07:00 AM
A quick comment before I start my Korea game. The UP of the Tang is called: "The power of Agriculture". It is the same as the Ming UP.

I don't have much free time to play my Korean game the first few days. But I have more time by the weekend.

EDIT: After a few turns (only the first 4 comments, the others are after some playing) I found out the following things:
1. I already got the 2nd UHV without even moving my ships (So sinking ships is impossible)
2. The Zhou capital was destroyed
3. The UP works
4. The Harappan are destroyed
5. When I destroyed the Zhou, I got the message that the Qin claimed the Mandate of Heaven
6. I had 2 Pyongyangs. 1 called Pyongyang (capital) and P'yongyang.
7. Triremes can enter ocean. Should this be possible?
8. An option for the 3rd UHV: Control Korea and the Yellow Sea and at least 1 city in Japan. It may be fun to do. (If it doesn't make the game too difficult.)
9. I think it's better for the Orang Laut if it had another first strike. (So it realy does have naval superiority.

And a suggestion:
As you know, you need irrigation for building cottages to prevent huge areas with only towns. Wouldn't it be nice if you are able to spread irrigation with cottages. I was thinking of giving Public Works or even Artistic Engineering this ability. Both techs come very late. So, what do you think?

merijn_v1
Dec 06, 2010, 11:50 AM
Has anyone ever suceeded in the 3500:culture: Zhou UHV? The highest i got was 2700~2800 and i have no idea how to get more...

I only played 1 Zhou game. I don't remember the exact culture, but IIRC, it was about the same as you have. And that UHV is already made easier. (It was 5000 :culture:)

Black Whole
Dec 06, 2010, 12:06 PM
That sounds great! Adding them as a minor power, would be useful, rather than having them as wondering barbarian nomads : P



Cool! And good work! :goodjob:

As for Japan's and Koreas UHV:
Japan: Why on earth do they need to build a city in the Philippines?? The Japanese did not EVEN land on the Philippines until WW2
Korea: Whats up with this sinking 20 ships? Not the best, their must be better ones. As for having to control the Yellow Sea, well thats just crazy, I think just uniting Korea, and not losing a city to Barbs or the Japanese, would be better.

Japan didn't own the land that is true, but there were many Japanese settlements on Luzon... as well as many Chinese trading posts and I thought it would be fun to settle more territory... One goal doesn't need to be strictly historical, so I decided to make them sttle the Philippines.
As for Korea, not losing citis to barbs is VERY easy... they don't experience that much pressure ATM, as most tend to attack China... and come on, you know that the AI is terrible at launching Sea wars :lol:.

Some "bugs" I found when looking in the civilopedia. (I didn't start a game yet due lack of free time)
- The Harrapan text doesn't work. You will have to change the tag in the XML. Same problem for the Majahapit text. (Maybe for other texts too, but I didn't searched for that)
- The Caitra Tribute doesn't show up in the civilopedia properly.
- The lumbermill is still in the game.
- The Terrace still produces a food when next to a river. (Or did it produce 2 food next to a river and you reduced it to 1)
- I can't see in the civilopedia that ships and siege units are faster produced with Timber.
Caught most of the bugs, yet I can see that the production bonus comes from Timber... and the +1 food shouldn't be possibole, as the XML entry doesn't give you anything like that... Maybe the patch got borked? Does anyon notice those bugs too? The lumbermill was to much work to remvoe entirely, so I will do it for the next version. ;)

Ok, well, IIRC the Koreans NEVER tried to invade outside of Korea, and would have never clashed with China. I definitely think a better UHV is in order.
The ships was an idea I made, if nothing else worked out.
And the thing that MOST annoys me about Korea AND Japan, is that uniting them is VERY VERY VERY easy. This was the work of many great men, who struggled to unite their respective countries. In this game, there IS no competition! There are not competing cities in Japan or Korea, that would actually slow down your growth, which most definitely SHOULD be the case. Thats why the Unite Korea and make sure no one take a city, SHOULD and WOULD be a good UHV, and I wish you would make it so.
Actually, the Korean states had colonies in Japan and tried to help them from being eaten by the Yamato..., so this could be seen as a Korean invasion :p.
The problem is just the following: If I give the indies or barb citis more units, they tend to disband them.... If you have ideas for more cities, which were important enough, just post them. How about giving the cities walls? (I think an additional city for Korea and Japan should be enough competition, without turnung it into an scenario...)

I just tried a game as Tibet, and there are some complaints:
First, the 3rd UHV doesn't work. I changed some stuff (some errors are pretty obvious), but didn't get to make it work
Second, their UB is to strong. A free Artist can provide a lot of culture and makes the first UHV too easy; a free artist slot could do it.
Third, their UU is too strong, or at least has too much effects. Starting with Guerilla I is enough.
Does Buddhism have an UP? If it hasn't, it could increase the amount of missionaries you can have, or make them cross borders without OB, so you can spread Buddhism to independent cities.

But don't think that i didn't enjoy playing them. Especially the second UHV is fun

[...]

Anyway, i just finished a Harappan game on monarch.
If you're not prepared (and the AI isn't), the barbarians will most certainly conquer the Indus Valley. This problem is definitly solved (at least on monarch). After including a barb Alexander invasion, i'd even say that Harappa is complete. I don't see a need for a non-playable Seleukid civ.

Has anyone ever suceeded in the 3500 Zhou UHV? The highest i got was 2700~2800 and i have no idea how to get more...
I found the bug and corrected it and incorporated your suggestions, I really like the Buddhist UP you proposed!

As for the Seleukids, I think that they would serve several interests:
1. If Harappa is still alive, kill them for sure.
2. Maurya should spread Buddhism to the east, up to Samarkand, which would increase historical accuracy.
3. AN enemy for Maurya, in the end.
4. Persia is currently totally underdevelopped, while they would give them at least some cities and infrastructure.
5. Remove the ahistorical Immortals running down the Ganges valley :D.
6. They wouldn't stay for long, as Parthian/Sassanid Horse Archers would defeat them.

A quick comment before I start my Korea game. The UP of the Tang is called: "The power of Agriculture". It is the same as the Ming UP.

I don't have much free time to play my Korean game the first few days. But I have more time by the weekend.

EDIT: After a few turns (only the first 4 comments, the others are after some playing) I found out the following things:
1. I already got the 2nd UHV without even moving my ships (So sinking ships is impossible)
2. The Zhou capital was destroyed
3. The UP works
4. The Harappan are destroyed
5. When I destroyed the Zhou, I got the message that the Qin claimed the Mandate of Heaven
6. I had 2 Pyongyangs. 1 called Pyongyang (capital) and P'yongyang.
7. Triremes can enter ocean. Should this be possible?
8. An option for the 3rd UHV: Control Korea and the Yellow Sea and at least 1 city in Japan. It may be fun to do. (If it doesn't make the game too difficult.)
9. I think it's better for the Orang Laut if it had another first strike. (So it realy does have naval superiority.

And a suggestion:
As you know, you need irrigation for building cottages to prevent huge areas with only towns. Wouldn't it be nice if you are able to spread irrigation with cottages. I was thinking of giving Public Works or even Artistic Engineering this ability. Both techs come very late. So, what do you think?
1. Fixed the goal.
2. Well that was jus unlucky... stupid AI.
3 and 4, that's good isn't it? ;)
5. What's so strange about that? The civ which fulfills the prerequesites the best, gets the Mandate.
6. Could you post a screenshot or describe which tiles you found that?
7. I don't know about this one... the Triremes shouldn't be able to do that, since their XML entry forbids it... that's annoying.
8/9. I'll ad, sure.

I looked how to do the irrigation thing, and I found out that I would need to modify the XML schema to accomplish that... I'll see if I can find a workaround.

Thanks, for your fast reports :goodjob:!

Black Whole
Dec 06, 2010, 12:08 PM
I only played 1 Zhou game. I don't remember the exact culture, but IIRC, it was about the same as you have. And that UHV is already made easier. (It was 5000 :culture:)
Maybe I should reduce it again, I always just use some random values, which could be possible....:lol: How about 2000?

merijn_v1
Dec 06, 2010, 12:27 PM
Not all of my comments in post 569 are negative (2, 3, 4, 5 are positive). Some are their to say that the code works. In other words :goodjob:. ;)

I don't think the 3rd Zhou UHV should be changed. We just should play better. ;)

Here is the screenshot. (For your info, the left city is with ' )

civ-addicted
Dec 06, 2010, 05:14 PM
Maybe I should reduce it again, I always just use some random values, which could be possible....:lol: How about 2000?

Or you could give more time. You should do better than the civ did in history, so you should be alive after 220BC.
If you rename Pixian, what about this: the first state who owned Chengdu was called Shu. In the Three Kingdom era, the state was called Shu again, and so did the owner in the Five Dynasties and Ten Empires period. So, it starts as 'Shu' and is called 'Chengdu' if a chinese civ owns it (resp. 'Centu', the sichuan name in Bai script, if Nanzhao owns it). And whenever it's independent or barbarian, it's 'Shu' again.Looking at merijn's screenie, i'd say that Korea should be in the state-name-to-city-name mechanic (line 1887 in citynamemanger.py)

The cityname map of Jurchen is attached. Since it's a civ that didn't had real cities in their homeland, it's rather hard to make a good map. I expanded the chinese one by also adding Liao citynames and modern chinese and russian ones (the russian in chinese of course). Instead of the HRE citylist, i'd rather give them the mongolian instead of the chinese one.

The Turk
Dec 06, 2010, 05:40 PM
Why is Beijing in the Shangdong Peninsula?? Beijing is not even next to any coast -__-

merijn_v1
Dec 07, 2010, 02:55 AM
Why is Beijing in the Shangdong Peninsula?? Beijing is not even next to any coast -__-

That is because the Zhou cityname map isn't finished. And if a spot doesn't have an preset name on it, it will get the name of first city in the standard list. (In the case of the Zhou, it's Beijing) That's also why you will find Seoul in China.

merijn_v1
Dec 07, 2010, 05:26 AM
I made a little mistake in my one of my last posts. The Korean UP doesn't work properly. It doesn't add Drill I and Drill II as it supposed to do, but it adds Drill II and Drill III.

civ-addicted
Dec 07, 2010, 11:32 AM
I've just reread my suggestion about the tibetian UU and recognized that it doesn't make sense at all:blush: The unit needs to get defensive bonus in the first place that Guerilla I works...
Letting them start with Guerilla II instead is possible, so they have double movement on hills. Unless you got a better idea.
And two artist slots may be better for their UB. And according to its art: Do you know what color dzekshim has? i didn't found any pictures.

In the weekend i tried a Chalukya game, too. But i didn't finished because i didn't get the 2nd UHV.
Their UP is overpowered imo. I conquered all of India just for fun, and ended up with like 10 free artists and 5 Great Artists at 1000AD. I'm pretty sure that i would've got the 3rd UHV:p
Here are some possible solutions:
-Make them get a free artist with every second or third conquered city. But this might encourage you to conquer too much too early (ahistorical)
-Increase unit costs for them, so you simply can't conquer enough in time
-Increase the amount of :gp: points needed for a GP
-give them a free specialist instead of a free artist. This might encourage you to switch to Caste System (like Chalukya did in history) to get the unlimited artists. Atm, Caste System is counterproductive because of the -25%:gp: But the AI could abuse that...
But Chalukya do have a lot of potential.

I also tried Chola. Here's a quick review:
-I was pretty lucky that i got the first UHV; I've buildt the third wonder thanks to a Great Engineer in like 1096AD. That is fun.
-I didn't got the second one. Does OB contracts with civs you don't have contact anymore count?
-After a failed conquest of Burma, which was uber in my game, i've quit...

And Vietnam:
-The 1st and the 2nd are fairly easy
-The 3rd is something in between really hard and impossible. Because of inflation, i got 90% :gold: vs. 10% :science:, so i was way back in tech. Maybe i should try again...

merijn_v1
Dec 07, 2010, 11:46 AM
[...]

I also tried Chola. Here's a quick review:
-I was pretty lucky that i got the first UHV; I've buildt the third wonder thanks to a Great Engineer in like 1096AD. That is fun.
-I didn't got the second one. Does OB contracts with civs you don't have contact anymore count?
-After a failed conquest of Burma, which was uber in my game, i've quit...

And Vietnam:
-The 1st and the 2nd are fairly easy
-The 3rd is something in between really hard and impossible. Because of inflation, i got 90% :gold: vs. 10% :science:, so i was way back in tech. Maybe i should try again...

If it's the same code as the Portuguese in vanilla RFC, yes. (Although I'm not for 100% sure.)

BTW, how did you fail. Signing OB is one of the most easy aspects of the game. (Just give 10:gold: when you meet them the first time (do no other actions before) and they never refuse. Only Tokugawa might refuse)

civ-addicted
Dec 07, 2010, 11:54 AM
BTW, how did you fail. [...]I don't like everyone to have OB with me:mischief:
No, seriously. I think i've sendt too few units exploring.

civ-addicted
Dec 08, 2010, 04:58 PM
I've done some research and reworked the Zhou citymap. There are no gaps left, i think. And even if the AI manages to found a city out of the citymap, it doesn't get a 'Beijing', but a city with a proper state name. And that city does get renamed after conquest!

merijn_v1
Dec 10, 2010, 10:42 AM
Comments of my current Korean game.

- I could build many wonders at spawn. So I did. But this gave me a very big advantage. (maybe even too big)
- There are some animals on the islands. (Even the 1 tile ones.)

- The game crashes to desktop in the save. (See attachment) Just play 1 turn and open the WB. (If I don't skip the turn, the WB works fine.)

merijn_v1
Dec 10, 2010, 12:57 PM
Started a Tibetan game.

- The 1st UHV doesn't seem to work. I gave myself (with WB) all tiles in the Himalayas and it said "no". (see screenie for my territory)
- What power does the Potala supposed to have? Currently, it doesn't have any. Maybe it could allow you to build vassal UU.

EDIT:
- The 2nd UHV works fine.
- No CTD in this game as I discriped in the post above. (about same year, when the plague hits)
- Those buildings which increases the yeild of some resources (like batik maker etc.) are IMO to expansive. They shouldn't be cheap, but the extras are to low compared to the costs.
- It seems the 3rd UHV doesn't count until 1200 AD. (I didn't play until then yet) I think you should get the UHV immidiately when you spread buddhism in the 7th foreign city. And not have to wait until 1200 AD.

civ-addicted
Dec 10, 2010, 01:44 PM
My second game as Vietnam: everything went fine. It was fun; and then i checked my stability:

(-3) - 2 + 6 + 5 +1 = -32 ?!?!

Is this supposed to happen? What have i done to deserve this?
That's just not fair.

I played a couple of games as Tocharistan, and the more i play, the more i think that the UHV is actually possible (after giving my cities Buddhism via WB). But you need a lot of macromanagement, and it kinda feels like playing on Emperor while playing on Monarch...

And 2 general points, after various games:
- There are too many barbarians. Sure, living in ancient Asia wasn't a piece of cake, but when everything you've buildt gets pillaged after 2 or 3 turns, it's just not fun anymore.
- Techs are too expensive for the human player, and you're far behind in the tech race pretty early.

merijn_v1
Dec 10, 2010, 02:07 PM
My second game as Vietnam: everything went fine. It was fun; and then i checked my stability:

(-3) - 2 + 6 + 5 +1 = -32 ?!?!

Is this supposed to happen? What have i done to deserve this?
That's just not fair.

I played a couple of games as Tocharistan, and the more i play, the more i think that the UHV is actually possible (after giving my cities Buddhism via WB). But you need a lot of macromanagement, and it kinda feels like playing on Emperor while playing on Monarch...

And 2 general points, after various games:
- There are too many barbarians. Sure, living in ancient Asia wasn't a piece of cake, but when everything you've buildt gets pillaged after 2 or 3 turns, it's just not fun anymore.
- Techs are too expensive for the human player, and you're far behind in the tech race pretty early.

I agree.
I get the feeling that I have a good tech rate and one of the tech leaders, but when I look at the other civs, I'm quite a lot tech behind.

civ-addicted
Dec 11, 2010, 12:22 PM
Finally! Zhou is possible!
I finished with exactly 10614,15 :culture:. Guess what i changed this time...
:yeah:
And even with the highest score i ever got on RFCA: 9085, giving me a King Wen score, which is ironically emperor Wu's father.

EDIT:
After that glorious victory, i tried the first game as Koreans. First, i was the only one having cities (Qufu, Chengzhou and Xi'an) in China, everyone else there was dead, and i didn't get the Mandate of Heaven. Maybe the mechanic is broken.
But my main point is this: the third UHV is really strange. Sure, it's an intuitive solution to say they should control the Yellow Sea, since Korea is next to it. But it makes you invade China, like the Jurchen people did, which Korea never aspired. For me, that's artistic license gone bad...sorry.

veBear
Dec 11, 2010, 02:06 PM
I really like that goal as AFAIK it turns upside down on history with Korea making China it's puppet and not the other way around.

veBear
Dec 11, 2010, 02:13 PM
Alright, it's starting to be some time since I last did anything for this mod.... Which LH should be the next to get his/her own personality? If you tell me all who need so I might give you a christmas present :p

Black Whole
Dec 12, 2010, 05:16 AM
Finally, I can answer the post! I had a busy week ;).
Not all of my comments in post 569 are negative (2, 3, 4, 5 are positive). Some are their to say that the code works. In other words :goodjob:. ;)

I don't think the 3rd Zhou UHV should be changed. We just should play better. ;)

Here is the screenshot. (For your info, the left city is with ' )

Than that's okay :).
I removed Seoul and Pyongyang from the city list, so we don't get that anymore.

[...]
If you rename Pixian, what about this:
[...]
The cityname map of Jurchen is attached. Since it's a civ that didn't had real cities in their homeland, it's rather hard to make a good map. I expanded the chinese one by also adding Liao citynames and modern chinese and russian ones (the russian in chinese of course). Instead of the HRE citylist, i'd rather give them the mongolian instead of the chinese one.
Thanks for the map! I added it right away. And I'll code that for Chengdu.

I made a little mistake in my one of my last posts. The Korean UP doesn't work properly. It doesn't add Drill I and Drill II as it supposed to do, but it adds Drill II and Drill III.
Fixed. Thanks!

've just reread my suggestion about the tibetian UU and recognized that it doesn't make sense at all The unit needs to get defensive bonus in the first place that Guerilla I works...
Letting them start with Guerilla II instead is possible, so they have double movement on hills. Unless you got a better idea.
And two artist slots may be better for their UB. And according to its art: Do you know what color dzekshim has? i didn't found any pictures.

In the weekend i tried a Chalukya game, too. But i didn't finished because i didn't get the 2nd UHV.
Their UP is overpowered imo. I conquered all of India just for fun, and ended up with like 10 free artists and 5 Great Artists at 1000AD. I'm pretty sure that i would've got the 3rd UHV
Here are some possible solutions:
-Make them get a free artist with every second or third conquered city. But this might encourage you to conquer too much too early (ahistorical)
-Increase unit costs for them, so you simply can't conquer enough in time
-Increase the amount of points needed for a GP
-give them a free specialist instead of a free artist. This might encourage you to switch to Caste System (like Chalukya did in history) to get the unlimited artists. Atm, Caste System is counterproductive because of the -25% But the AI could abuse that...
But Chalukya do have a lot of potential.

I also tried Chola. Here's a quick review:
-I was pretty lucky that i got the first UHV; I've buildt the third wonder thanks to a Great Engineer in like 1096AD. That is fun.
-I didn't got the second one. Does OB contracts with civs you don't have contact anymore count?
-After a failed conquest of Burma, which was uber in my game, i've quit...

And Vietnam:
-The 1st and the 2nd are fairly easy
-The 3rd is something in between really hard and impossible. Because of inflation, i got 90% vs. 10% , so i was way back in tech. Maybe i should try again...

Hmm, How about Guerilla III and II? Because double movement, isn't enough for a region, which gave birth to fierce warriors...
About Dzekshim: Here's what I think, what could be a good colour: Bell (http://steinklang.de/Glocken/glt-s1-09_frei_NEU.jpg)
Since we don't know, which metals are used beside copper, gold and silver, I think that this represents it the best.
What do you mean with free specialist? A free slot, or a free specialist, indeed?
But you have beedn really active, I wish I had that much time :lol:.
I am also considering to add more wonders, since many are religion specific... How about another Hindu wonder?

I've done some research and reworked the Zhou citymap. There are no gaps left, i think. And even if the AI manages to found a city out of the citymap, it doesn't get a 'Beijing', but a city with a proper state name. And that city does get renamed after conquest!
Cool! I am really thankful how much effort you put in the maps!

Comments of my current Korean game.

- I could build many wonders at spawn. So I did. But this gave me a very big advantage. (maybe even too big)
- There are some animals on the islands. (Even the 1 tile ones.)

- The game crashes to desktop in the save. (See attachment) Just play 1 turn and open the WB. (If I don't skip the turn, the WB works fine.)
Hmm, that's a problem, because Harappa should build them actuallly... except for Cheomseongdae, which should gotto you :D. But that's the same case with vanilla RFC...
The animals shouldn't be that much of a problem... There are rare species on islands :p. But if it bugs you too much, I can adjust the code.
I'll check the crash.... I had one too but I thought it was because of my low-performance laptop :p.

Started a Tibetan game.

- The 1st UHV doesn't seem to work. I gave myself (with WB) all tiles in the Himalayas and it said "no". (see screenie for my territory)
- What power does the Potala supposed to have? Currently, it doesn't have any. Maybe it could allow you to build vassal UU.

EDIT:
- The 2nd UHV works fine.
- No CTD in this game as I discriped in the post above. (about same year, when the plague hits)
- Those buildings which increases the yeild of some resources (like batik maker etc.) are IMO to expansive. They shouldn't be cheap, but the extras are to low compared to the costs.
- It seems the 3rd UHV doesn't count until 1200 AD. (I didn't play until then yet) I think you should get the UHV immidiately when you spread buddhism in the 7th foreign city. And not have to wait until 1200 AD.
Hmm,sounds good. IL## give this ability to Potala palace. Hmm I guess you hadn't all the tiles... I need to compare it exactly. The rest is already checked in ;).

My second game as Vietnam: everything went fine. It was fun; and then i checked my stability:

(-3) - 2 + 6 + 5 +1 = -32 ?!?!

Is this supposed to happen? What have i done to deserve this?
That's just not fair.

I played a couple of games as Tocharistan, and the more i play, the more i think that the UHV is actually possible (after giving my cities Buddhism via WB). But you need a lot of macromanagement, and it kinda feels like playing on Emperor while playing on Monarch...

And 2 general points, after various games:
- There are too many barbarians. Sure, living in ancient Asia wasn't a piece of cake, but when everything you've buildt gets pillaged after 2 or 3 turns, it's just not fun anymore.
- Techs are too expensive for the human player, and you're far behind in the tech race pretty early.
The stability number isn't just the addition of the factors beneath it... That's already like this since vanilla RFC... I'll try to give a more correct addition.
And I thought, there weren't enough barbs :lol:. Which regions do you mean exactly? I need more info to reduce them effectively without making it too easy.
The same goes for techs: Which civ have you been playing which year is it and compared to which other civ? I need detailed info, otherwise I can't adjust the values...
I'll answer the rest later.... Phew!

merijn_v1
Dec 12, 2010, 06:08 AM
I can give the code for the Potala Palace. (we already have it in RFCE)

The Tibetan UU does have defensive bonus, so their current promotion works. (I thought you didn't need the capability of defensive bonus' to recieve the extra defense from promotions)
But the thing I don't like about their UU is that it flats all movement costs. It will always (even with roads) have 2 :move:. I think giving them ignore movements costs is better. (So they can make use of roads)

civ-addicted
Dec 12, 2010, 09:59 AM
About Dzekshim: Here's what I think, what could be a good colour: Bell (http://steinklang.de/Glocken/glt-s1-09_frei_NEU.jpg)
Since we don't know, which metals are used beside copper, gold and silver, I think that this represents it the best.I wanted to make either a Buddha Statue with that color or simply reskin an Obelisk, whatever you like better.
What do you mean with free specialist? A free slot, or a free specialist, indeed?A free specialist just like the School provides one (or Meritocracy). That free specialist could be invested in an Artist, for exampleBut you have beedn really active, I wish I had that much time :lol:.:sarcasm:I am also considering to add more wonders, since many are religion specific... How about another Hindu wonder?As long as you got art, it's fine.Cool! I am really thankful how much effort you put in the maps!It's just that everytime i see a 'Beijing', it remembers me that this mod isn't finished:(Hmm, that's a problem, because Harappa should build them actuallly... except for Cheomseongdae, which should gotto you :D. But that's the same case with vanilla RFC...That's indeed a problem. Since Harrapa is going to die, anybody else can build a great harbor (Korea usually does). We could make those wonders buildable just as long the Harappans are alive.The stability number isn't just the addition of the factors beneath it... That's already like this since vanilla RFC... I'll try to give a more correct addition.That would be great. Playing mediocraly should be rewarded with a mediocre stability:lol:And I thought, there weren't enough barbs :lol:. Which regions do you mean exactly? I need more info to reduce them effectively without making it too easy.I played as Qin, and those barbs just pillaged everything i've buildt. And with the Archers and Spearman you have you can't really leave the cities because their units are too strong.
And Chola. The Swordsman are always on the hills and in the forests, and you can't attack them with your Swordsman either.
And they raze too much! It's just based on luck whether Vengi, Panyu or Chengdu are there, because having those cities around make the starting situation of Chola, Vietnam or Nanzhao a lot better.
The same goes for techs: Which civ have you been playing which year is it and compared to which other civ? I need detailed info, otherwise I can't adjust the values...
Qin again, but it goes for every other civ as well. It takes forever until you can build the Great Wall. In RFC, on Monarch level, i was usually 1 or 2 techs ahead from newborn civs. I think that's a proper guideline; but usually all the others are 6 to 8 techs ahead from me!
Again, inflation is a huge problem. I started the first Majapahit game ever, conquered the city in southern Borneo and founded a city on Celebes, and suddenly i had -40 :gold: on 0% science, because of 150% inflation after 10 turns. That's just annoying. But frankly, i've never got the concept of inflation in this game. Does anybody have a guide or something about inflation?

merijn_v1
Dec 12, 2010, 10:38 AM
Easy bugfix:
As I said in a post before, the Caitra art doesn't work. You can solve that problem by changing the tag in CIV4ArtDefines_Building.xml from "ART_DEF_BUILDING_MAJAPAHIT_CAITRA" to "ART_DEF_BUILDING_CAITRA".


Is this what you have in mind for the Tibetan Dzekshim Staute?

civ-addicted
Dec 12, 2010, 11:21 AM
Is this what you have in mind for the Tibetan Dzekshim Staute?

Hey! I wanted to do that!
:lol:
Basicly, that's what i imagined. But just in case, try to reskin the Golden Buddha, just to see what looks better.

merijn_v1
Dec 12, 2010, 11:55 AM
Hey! I wanted to do that!
:lol:
Basicly, that's what i imagined. But just in case, try to reskin the Golden Buddha, just to see what looks better.

I was quicker. :trophy:

The screenie of the reskinned Golden Buddha is in my previous post.


EDIT: More wrong tags in the XML:
- in BuildingText.xml: Change "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MAJAPAHIT_CAITRA_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CAITRA_PEDIA"
- in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml: Change "TXT_KEY_CIV_MAJAPHIT_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_CIV_MAJAPAHIT_PEDIA"
- in CivText.xml: change "TXT_KEY_CIV_HARAPPA_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_CIV_INDUS_PEDIA"

Black Whole
Dec 13, 2010, 11:33 AM
Finally! Zhou is possible!
I finished with exactly 10614,15 :culture:. Guess what i changed this time...
:yeah:
And even with the highest score i ever got on RFCA: 9085, giving me a King Wen score, which is ironically emperor Wu's father.

EDIT:
After that glorious victory, i tried the first game as Koreans. First, i was the only one having cities (Qufu, Chengzhou and Xi'an) in China, everyone else there was dead, and i didn't get the Mandate of Heaven. Maybe the mechanic is broken.
But my main point is this: the third UHV is really strange. Sure, it's an intuitive solution to say they should control the Yellow Sea, since Korea is next to it. But it makes you invade China, like the Jurchen people did, which Korea never aspired. For me, that's artistic license gone bad...sorry.
That's good to hear! :) And how did you get 10000?... I guess I should increase the threshold to 5000 again :lol:.
I tried a workaround for the Mandate of Heaven, I hope that it works now.
I think that the goal is okay... unless you have a better idea of course ;).

Alright, it's starting to be some time since I last did anything for this mod.... Which LH should be the next to get his/her own personality? If you tell me all who need so I might give you a christmas present
That would be very nice of you! You can choose one if you want, otherwise, I would say that Songtsen Gampo should be next.

I can give the code for the Potala Palace. (we already have it in RFCE)

The Tibetan UU does have defensive bonus, so their current promotion works. (I thought you didn't need the capability of defensive bonus' to recieve the extra defense from promotions)
But the thing I don't like about their UU is that it flats all movement costs. It will always (even with roads) have 2 . I think giving them ignore movements costs is better. (So they can make use of roads)
That would be nice, too! (Less work for me :D) I understood civ-addicted in the way, that he thinks it would be too overpowered... Otherwise I leave it as it is, except for the movemnt costs you mentioned.


A free specialist just like the School provides one (or Meritocracy). That free specialist could be invested in an Artist, for example

Okay, I'll see what I can do (manipulating specialists is a really complicated task...).


That's indeed a problem. Since Harrapa is going to die, anybody else can build a great harbor (Korea usually does). We could make those wonders buildable just as long the Harappans are alive.
That would be a good solution... or just a very early tech, whcih obsoletes them?

That would be great. Playing mediocraly should be rewarded with a mediocre stability

Now to understand, where and how Rhye coded that :lol:!

I played as Qin, and those barbs just pillaged everything i've buildt. And with the Archers and Spearman you have you can't really leave the cities because their units are too strong.
And Chola. The Swordsman are always on the hills and in the forests, and you can't attack them with your Swordsman either.
And they raze too much! It's just based on luck whether Vengi, Panyu or Chengdu are there, because having those cities around make the starting situation of Chola, Vietnam or Nanzhao a lot better.

I will reduce the amount of barbs and maybe add special units, which don't are that overpowered in those regions... and I wanted to add raze values to some cities ( so the AI know which cty should be razed and which ones not).

Qin again, but it goes for every other civ as well. It takes forever until you can build the Great Wall. In RFC, on Monarch level, i was usually 1 or 2 techs ahead from newborn civs. I think that's a proper guideline; but usually all the others are 6 to 8 techs ahead from me!

Hmm, I guess that the civ just have too many starting techs... that could be the reason. Or do you mean, that the early civs outtech you too?

Again, inflation is a huge problem. I started the first Majapahit game ever, conquered the city in southern Borneo and founded a city on Celebes, and suddenly i had -40 on 0% science, because of 150% inflation after 10 turns. That's just annoying. But frankly, i've never got the concept of inflation in this game. Does anybody have a guide or something about inflation?
I really don't know HOW inflation is calculated... I think that reducing it for the civs would be the best way to go.

I was quicker.

The screenie of the reskinned Golden Buddha is in my previous post.


EDIT: More wrong tags in the XML:
- in BuildingText.xml: Change "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MAJAPAHIT_CAITRA_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CAITRA_PEDIA"
- in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml: Change "TXT_KEY_CIV_MAJAPHIT_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_CIV_MAJAPAHIT_PEDIA"
- in CivText.xml: change "TXT_KEY_CIV_HARAPPA_PEDIA" to "TXT_KEY_CIV_INDUS_PEDIA"
Thanks for the art! And I already found those bugs, they will be corrected.


Two things I still have in mind. I want your thoughts about it:

Some civs should be moved so they start in the correct year:
Chola: from 190 AD to 270 BC.
Jurchen: 907 AD to 1000 est. as 907 would be the Khitans...
Sultanate of Delhi: from 1206 to 1148 (Ghorid Sultanate)
Qin: from 221BC to 749BC
Khmer: from 616 AD to 802 AD

If you have ideas for wonders, post them, as some wonders will become obsolete, especially the earlc ones.
- Imperial Canal: More food stored in city with rice and wheat, great engineer
- Yassa: increased war weariness for enemies (or other effect)
- etc.

merijn_v1
Dec 13, 2010, 11:48 AM
1. That would be very nice of you! You can choose one if you want, otherwise, I would say that Songtsen Gampo should be next.

2. That would be nice, too! (Less work for me :D) I understood civ-addicted in the way, that he thinks it would be too overpowered... Otherwise I leave it as it is, except for the movemnt costs you mentioned.

3. Okay, I'll see what I can do (manipulating specialists is a really complicated task...).

4. Thanks for the art! And I already found those bugs, they will be corrected.


Two things I still have in mind. I want your thoughts about it:

5. Some civs should be moved so they start in the correct year:
Chola: from 190 AD to 270 BC.
Jurchen: 907 AD to 1000 est. as 907 would be the Khitans...
Sultanate of Delhi: from 1206 to 1148 (Ghorid Sultanate)
Qin: from 221BC to 749BC
Khmer: from 616 AD to 802 AD

6. If you have ideas for wonders, post them, as some wonders will become obsolete, especially the earlc ones.
- Imperial Canal: More food stored in city with rice and wheat, great engineer
- Yassa: increased war weariness for enemies (or other effect)
- etc.

1. In some othermods, there are also art files for a Tibetan leader. I will upload them soon so you may don't have to do all that work.

2. I already copied the code to a file. But I will upload it this weekend with all the art files I collected. (except the units as you requested)

3. If you just want to give the Tibetan UB an free specialist (exactly the same as the school), it isn't very difficult. It's done in the XML. (As you could see in my screenshots of the new art, I already did it)

4. Which of the 2 arts do you like. The reskinned "normal buddha" or the reskinned "golden buddha" ?

5. Go ahead, if it's historical more correct, I'm in favor of it.

6. I will look in RFCE if we have some nice effects we could use. (One I come up with at the moment is giving a wonder the ability to spread farms with irrigation, just like the Civil Service tech in vanilla RFC does.)

civ-addicted
Dec 13, 2010, 01:36 PM
That's good to hear! :) And how did you get 10000?... I guess I should increase the threshold to 5000 again :lol:.
I tried a workaround for the Mandate of Heaven, I hope that it works now.
I think that the goal is okay... unless you have a better idea of course ;).Cheating usually does the trick:lol: If you want to play fair, switching to Caste System for artists also works.
I guess everyone else is fine with the korean UHV, so don't listen to a single guy complaining. I would make it to a most revealed map in an early date, but i don't need you for that:pHmm, I guess that the civ just have too many starting techs... that could be the reason. Or do you mean, that the early civs outtech you too?If Zhou or Qin are still alive, it's even worse... But they shouldn't be alive in the first place.That would be a good solution... or just a very early tech, whcih obsoletes them?Even better. A starting Tech of Korea might do it.

EDIT: An idea for one of your new wonders:
Itsukushima Shrine: something Japan-specific, like more GG emerge (though i think there is already a wonder that grants this).
Even with art (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2554)
It was finished in 12th century, so it comes rather late.
Though i must say that the Yassa isn't that good of a wonder. I giant book or something that will be in the city you've buildt it looks pretty odd (i didn't like this kind of wonders in civ3 either). It can be a project, nevertheless.
The Silver Tree fountain from Karakorum can be used, too.

veBear
Dec 14, 2010, 09:37 AM
Wonder: Prambanan - requires hinduism
- Workers build improvements 50% faster

I'll have Songsten finished hopefully tomorrow ;)

Black Whole
Dec 17, 2010, 02:38 PM
1. In some othermods, there are also art files for a Tibetan leader. I will upload them soon so you may don't have to do all that work.

2. I already copied the code to a file. But I will upload it this weekend with all the art files I collected. (except the units as you requested)

3. If you just want to give the Tibetan UB an free specialist (exactly the same as the school), it isn't very difficult. It's done in the XML. (As you could see in my screenshots of the new art, I already did it)

4. Which of the 2 arts do you like. The reskinned "normal buddha" or the reskinned "golden buddha" ?

5. Go ahead, if it's historical more correct, I'm in favor of it.

6. I will look in RFCE if we have some nice effects we could use. (One I come up with at the moment is giving a wonder the ability to spread farms with irrigation, just like the Civil Service tech in vanilla RFC does.)

1. Do you mean art files or personalities?

3. I was referring to the Chalukya UP, whoch is done through python ATM.

4. Strangely, I can't open attached screenshots, so choose which one you like best.

5. As nobody complains, I will do it ;).

6. Sure, that would be great.


[...]

If Zhou or Qin are still alive, it's even worse... But they shouldn't be alive in the first place.

[...]

Even better. A starting Tech of Korea might do it.

EDIT: An idea for one of your new wonders:
Itsukushima Shrine: something Japan-specific, like more GG emerge (though i think there is already a wonder that grants this).
Even with art
It was finished in 12th century, so it comes rather late.
Though i must say that the Yassa isn't that good of a wonder. I giant book or something that will be in the city you've buildt it looks pretty odd (i didn't like this kind of wonders in civ3 either). It can be a project, nevertheless.
The Silver Tree fountain from Karakorum can be used, too.

Maybe adding some turns in the early game would do the trick...

Okay, I will consider which techs to choose. I'll check out your proposals and add, the fitting ones.

@veBear: The same effect has Borobudur :p. But I maybe I will add it modified :).
Take the time you need, the next version comes not too soon :).

merijn_v1
Dec 18, 2010, 05:20 AM
I meant art files for the leaderhead.


Some more features/ ideas for new wonders:
Features that wonders could have:
- -33% hurry production costs. (IIRC, there is no wonder with that feature now)
- Farms spread with irrigation without required tech. (In the vanilla game that tech is Civil Service)

Wonders:
- Marco Polo's Embassy. (I know it sounds a bit strange, but it's just an idea.) It could provide a "exotic" resource from the west you only can get with this wonder. Or: Extra income, culture etc. from the Silk Route.

merijn_v1
Dec 18, 2010, 06:26 AM
Here is all the stuff I promised. (Except the Units)

Some comments:
- I found some alternatives for all kind of things. Please choose what you think is the best. Buttons: Tea Route button, Tyrrany. Buildings: Cholan Trade Guild. (Button is in the button folder)
- I found some buttons that we could use in the future, or I don't know which unit can use it. Most of those are in the Buttons/Units, but also one in the buttons/wonders.
- I have 3 versions of a new Songtsen Gampo. I included a screenshot of all of those, so you can pick the best.
- I found many texts for buildings, units and wonders. You can find them in the respective folders.
- I also included the code for the new Potala Palace feature. But I didn't change anything, because I'm a python n00b. (Currently, it is for the Topkapi Palace)
- The new Sun Tzu art is just a tag in the XML. The art is already in the game.

EDIT: The alternative Tea_route.dds could be the button of the Teahouse.

If you want, I can give the new list of all art files. It can be difficult to see what files we already have and that we don't have.

merijn_v1
Dec 18, 2010, 01:29 PM
Now playing a Birman game:

- Maybe it's nice to give the Birman UU the Mobility promotion, so it immediatly can build when it enters a tile, without having to wait a turn. This happens a lot because there are many jungle tiles which slow you down there. Nevertheless, the UU rocks!!! I think it's (one of) the best UU's of the game.
- The Elephant Rider (and the Chalukyan UU) can't upgrade to War Elephants. IMO, htis should be possible.
- The first UHV is quite hard. I managed to get it 2 turns before the required date, but I was lucky. You need to conquer some cities, otherwise you won't have enough cities to get the buildings. I was lucky that Khmer had just a few units in their capital (and the other cities I wanted.) If I didn't won my first battle (which was a 20% winning chance), I probably didn't get the UHV.
- You can delete some not used resources in the CIV4ArtDefines_Buildings.xml. It reduces the size of the mod.

Bugs:
- Remove the " , " in the CIV4ArtDefines_Buildings.xml in the button tags of the Jurchen Barracks and Post Station. It will make the game crash.

veBear
Dec 19, 2010, 12:54 PM
Here is Songtsen!

He is basically a bit of a warmonger who cares not if you share the religion, but hates everyone who does not (he's even more zealot than Saladin). Hopefully this will provide a bit of interesting game, as he does not hasitate to attack if he feels for it. If you reject his demands, do not be surprised to have his armies rolling in. He basically cares about two things, spreading his religion... and warfare.

civ-addicted
Dec 20, 2010, 05:04 AM
Just something to discuss:

Do we really need mercenaries in this mod? In RFC and all the (other:)) big modmods, they are vital, of course, because mercenaries have been used massively back then. But in Asia, i think the Tang were the only one using mercenaries (in that case, they payed Uyghurs and Tibetians to fight the Göktürks). Whenever sovereigns needed soldiers, they just drafted them...
Unless someone just grew custom to the mercenaries or wants them for gameplay reasons.

You said you wanted to make every civ starting with civics; i don't like that idea, at least for the early and mid-game civs. If they start with pre-set civics, you take away the freedom of choice and sometimes i feel like the coder thinks i'm too stupid to set the civics for myself. Whenever you start with pre-set civics it turns out that you don't care for civics anymore, and it's such a fine mechanic in civ4 (compared to civ3) that it shouldn't be ignored.
And the 2 or 3 turns you're in anarchy at the beginning doesn't make that much of a difference. I like to play some games just to see what civic combination is best. I've spendt months to do that for RFC. And it was fun.
But i would be fine with setting the civics for late civs, like those spawning after 1000AD, for historical reasons.

Anyway, another idea for a world wonder:
Brihadeeswara Temple (southern India)
requires Hinduism
+2 free Priests
Within my Christmas break, i can make the art, thanks to edead's "goldmine".

How much more wonders do you like to add?

merijn_v1
Dec 20, 2010, 07:36 AM
If the mercenaries aren't neccessary, please remove them. I never used them. (And I probably never will.) I also think it's annoying when you think you can conquer a civ, and just before can kill the last units, they have about 3 very strong mercenaries. Or they just attack you with very strong mercenaries when they declare war at you.

It also will reduces the size of the mod a lot.

So, I'm in favor or removing the mercenaries.

merijn_v1
Dec 20, 2010, 09:34 AM
Finished my Birman game. All UHV works. Now I started a Gokturk game.

- The Gokturk already know some parts of Japan from the start.
- Their UP doesn't work for conquered cities.
- I don't like the -40% city attack of their UU. (But that's personal)

After some turns of playing. (about 740 AD)
- Hanseong (Seoul) is conquered by the Barbarian horse archers. (A turn after I discovered this, they collapsed. Maybe I don't have a good aura :lol:)

Black Whole
Dec 21, 2010, 01:27 PM
I meant art files for the leaderhead.


Some more features/ ideas for new wonders:
Features that wonders could have:
- -33% hurry production costs. (IIRC, there is no wonder with that feature now)
- Farms spread with irrigation without required tech. (In the vanilla game that tech is Civil Service)

Wonders:
- Marco Polo's Embassy. (I know it sounds a bit strange, but it's just an idea.) It could provide a "exotic" resource from the west you only can get with this wonder. Or: Extra income, culture etc. from the Silk Route.

IIRC, the hurry production is already for the Mosque of Xian.
The farm thingy needs some SDK coding... I'll see if I can do that.
- Hmm, Marco Polo sounds okay... but we could also allow that through an event, since it is a little bit strange that he visits when you want to :D.

Here is all the stuff I promised. (Except the Units)

Some comments:
- I found some alternatives for all kind of things. Please choose what you think is the best. Buttons: Tea Route button, Tyrrany. Buildings: Cholan Trade Guild. (Button is in the button folder)
- I found some buttons that we could use in the future, or I don't know which unit can use it. Most of those are in the Buttons/Units, but also one in the buttons/wonders.
- I have 3 versions of a new Songtsen Gampo. I included a screenshot of all of those, so you can pick the best.
- I found many texts for buildings, units and wonders. You can find them in the respective folders.
- I also included the code for the new Potala Palace feature. But I didn't change anything, because I'm a python n00b. (Currently, it is for the Topkapi Palace)
- The new Sun Tzu art is just a tag in the XML. The art is already in the game.

EDIT: The alternative Tea_route.dds could be the button of the Teahouse.

If you want, I can give the new list of all art files. It can be difficult to see what files we already have and that we don't have.

Thanks! I will use them :).

Now playing a Birman game:

- Maybe it's nice to give the Birman UU the Mobility promotion, so it immediatly can build when it enters a tile, without having to wait a turn. This happens a lot because there are many jungle tiles which slow you down there. Nevertheless, the UU rocks!!! I think it's (one of) the best UU's of the game.
- The Elephant Rider (and the Chalukyan UU) can't upgrade to War Elephants. IMO, htis should be possible.
- The first UHV is quite hard. I managed to get it 2 turns before the required date, but I was lucky. You need to conquer some cities, otherwise you won't have enough cities to get the buildings. I was lucky that Khmer had just a few units in their capital (and the other cities I wanted.) If I didn't won my first battle (which was a 20% winning chance), I probably didn't get the UHV.
- You can delete some not used resources in the CIV4ArtDefines_Buildings.xml. It reduces the size of the mod.

Bugs:
- Remove the " , " in the CIV4ArtDefines_Buildings.xml in the button tags of the Jurchen Barracks and Post Station. It will make the game crash.

Adjusted the first two things you mentioned and fixed the crash. (The Kywan worker is cool? I thought it would be rather borind :lol:. Glad you like him.)
I need to adjust the spread of the minor religions, ATM there are just to many cities with them... BTW, some factors attract the religions, it isn't totally random :P. (look in the python file Religions.py if you want to know them...)
Okay, I'll check the file.

Here is Songtsen!

He is basically a bit of a warmonger who cares not if you share the religion, but hates everyone who does not (he's even more zealot than Saladin). Hopefully this will provide a bit of interesting game, as he does not hasitate to attack if he feels for it. If you reject his demands, do not be surprised to have his armies rolling in. He basically cares about two things, spreading his religion... and warfare.
Cool! Finally we have the tibetan warmongers :D!

Just something to discuss:

Do we really need mercenaries in this mod? In RFC and all the (other) big modmods, they are vital, of course, because mercenaries have been used massively back then. But in Asia, i think the Tang were the only one using mercenaries (in that case, they payed Uyghurs and Tibetians to fight the Göktürks). Whenever sovereigns needed soldiers, they just drafted them...
Unless someone just grew custom to the mercenaries or wants them for gameplay reasons.

You said you wanted to make every civ starting with civics; i don't like that idea, at least for the early and mid-game civs. If they start with pre-set civics, you take away the freedom of choice and sometimes i feel like the coder thinks i'm too stupid to set the civics for myself. Whenever you start with pre-set civics it turns out that you don't care for civics anymore, and it's such a fine mechanic in civ4 (compared to civ3) that it shouldn't be ignored.
And the 2 or 3 turns you're in anarchy at the beginning doesn't make that much of a difference. I like to play some games just to see what civic combination is best. I've spendt months to do that for RFC. And it was fun.
But i would be fine with setting the civics for late civs, like those spawning after 1000AD, for historical reasons.

Anyway, another idea for a world wonder:
Brihadeeswara Temple (southern India)
requires Hinduism
+2 free Priests
Within my Christmas break, i can make the art, thanks to edead's "goldmine".

How much more wonders do you like to add?

Hmmm... actually I never use mercenaries, because every time I need them, the pool is just empty :lol:. But seriously, I am open for change here. If almost nobody uses them, I will remove this feature, which saves some loading time... And if this feature is going to be removed, I will add unit events instead (like Kobukson, mercenaries, rocketeer, etc...), so we can have some units, which didn't make it to the standard units.

I don't think that your choices are much different if you start with set civics.... you (as well as the AI) have still the choice to switch to combinations you prefer, I always do that in SoI. And the difference from switching with initial or set civics is null... I just want to make it a little bit more historical from the starting date you can still develop you own history. What do others think?

I don't know how many wonders should be added, the number is open as long as they serve a certain purpose (unique effects). But I would rather prefer mid-game wonders and non-religious ones...

Finished my Birman game. All UHV works. Now I started a Gokturk game.

- The Gokturk already know some parts of Japan from the start.
- Their UP doesn't work for conquered cities.
- I don't like the -40% city attack of their UU. (But that's personal)

After some turns of playing. (about 740 AD)
- Hanseong (Seoul) is conquered by the Barbarian horse archers. (A turn after I discovered this, they collapsed. Maybe I don't have a good aura )

1. I know about that but I don't know why that happens... the same goes for Nanzhao.
2. It wouldn't be of much use as it merely adds some culture, so your city expands (your culture is just to inferior to your enemy).
3. It's like this for all missle cavalries...

The Koreans feared your might and just gave up :lol:.

merijn_v1
Dec 21, 2010, 01:47 PM
IIRC, the hurry production is already for the Mosque of Xian.
The farm thingy needs some SDK coding... I'll see if I can do that.
- Hmm, Marco Polo sounds okay... but we could also allow that through an event, since it is a little bit strange that he visits when you want to :D.

1. I know about that but I don't know why that happens... the same goes for Nanzhao.
2. It wouldn't be of much use as it merely adds some culture, so your city expands (your culture is just to inferior to your enemy).
3. It's like this for all missle cavalries...

The Koreans feared your might and just gave up :lol:.

- I forgot about the Mosque of Xian.
- I can provide the code for the farm-wonder. Although you will have to say where the code is.
- I think you can solve the problem of the pre-known area by loading a game as the Harappans, go to the WB and remove the pre-known territory with the tool. (I left of the diplomacy change thing. Somewhere on the bottom left of the tools)
- I know the -40% city attack is for all missile cavalries and I do think it should stay, but I think it's annoying when you want to conquer cities in the beginning with those units.

civ-addicted
Dec 23, 2010, 06:07 AM
First of all:
Okay, I'll see what I can do (manipulating specialists is a really complicated task...).
All right, i got it :lmao:
Hmmm... actually I never use mercenaries, because every time I need them, the pool is just empty :lol:. But seriously, I am open for change here. If almost nobody uses them, I will remove this feature, which saves some loading time... And if this feature is going to be removed, I will add unit events instead (like Kobukson, mercenaries, rocketeer, etc...), so we can have some units, which didn't make it to the standard units.

I don't think that your choices are much different if you start with set civics.... you (as well as the AI) have still the choice to switch to combinations you prefer, I always do that in SoI. And the difference from switching with initial or set civics is null... I just want to make it a little bit more historical from the starting date you can still develop you own history. What do others think?

I don't know how many wonders should be added, the number is open as long as they serve a certain purpose (unique effects). But I would rather prefer mid-game wonders and non-religious ones...

I thought an option to enable/disable them somewhere would be the best solution if someone desperatly wants those mercenaries :think:
I just got the impression that civics will be ignored. But maybe that's just me. And again, i will make it my way in my version the way i want it (if i'm allowed to;)), making me somehow having the first RFC modmodmod.
Non-religious wonders? Phew. There are quite few, you know?

But now the fun part: after two weeks of hiatus, i made my first game as Chola. But the second UHV is broken (look at line 779 in victory.py:nono:)
After fixing that, i won! Researching the techs for the wonders is the hardest part. Great People are pretty essential for that.
The second one is based on luck, because i'm not sure if even 10 civs are allowed to be alive (Göktürks, Qin and Maurya were one of my trading partners).
The third one, well, conquering. Basic stuff.
BUT
I don't like the UHVs in general, because there is zero connection between all of them. Accomplishing those in the wrong order is even counterproductive. FE destroying Sri Vijaya before 1100 rules them out for a OB contract.
They are historical, in know. The timeframe is also okay, too. But i think we have to sacrifice one of them, and the second one is expendable. Having the biggest resource diversity, no wait, Sri Vijaya got that one:think: Is it possible to count the number of resources you trade? Like "Trade 10 luxury resources", for example.
And it would be nice if at least one of those wonders would help with one of those other UHVs. For example, Vijay Stambha gives either +5% :gold: for EVERY luxury resource, or +1 stability for every conquered city. You have to watch stability even on monarch (I'm pretty afraid to play it on Emperor).
So, here is my suggestion:
1. This UHV can stay, but change the effect of one Hindu wonder you build.
2. Something based on trading. The OB is an option, if you really like it that much. But then reduce it to 8 instead of 10, so you won't lose if you decide to conquer Sri Vijaya early.
3. As i said, conquering. It's not bad, but everyone know it. What about "Don't allow any civ to have a city at the Bay of Bengal and Sumatra but you and your vasals in 1300". It's a little long, i know. It's basically the same, except for the Malay Penisula (I guess you know this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rajendra_map_new.png)), but it sounds different. And it would be great when every civ have a UHV that doesn't exist in any other modmod. And if you make a 'by' you can win by taking all your units and smash the enemy, so without any tactics. With an 'in' you have to stabilize these areas as well. Though i normally prefer 'by', so you don't have to wait.

I love being back and enjoying some digital crack.

civ-addicted
Dec 23, 2010, 04:45 PM
I can't believe it: I just won a game with Vietnam (i really didn't thought this to be possible)
The first and second UHV are pretty easy, the third one is hard to crack. Stability is a major problem, you won't survive without every little bit that increases your stability. Trade techs with everyone who isn't a direct competition. I invaded Khmer and conquered a pop 13 Angkor, and luckily Nanzhao wanted to be my vasal. I finished with 5596 points.

merijn_v1
Dec 24, 2010, 07:12 AM
Finished my Gokturk game. (And played for 100 years longer) Nothing special to mention.

Then, I started a Tang game.
- I saw a barbarian city (Pixian) building the Great Bath. EDIT: When I looked again in 760 AD, they also had the Great Granary, Agr-e Bam and about 7 workers.
- In 755 AD, the Japanese civ had collapsed. It seems that 3 Horse archers captured their cities. IMO, the amount of barbs is too much. EDIT: Those Horse Archers left the cities, so I could capture them without a battle.
- I've got this message: "A Barbarian spy has been stumbled while upon operating near the Tang city of Wuhan".
- The Nanzhoa asked to be my vassal. Nothing special, but it was the 3rd game in a row. (Birman, Gokturk, Tang)
- I didn't get the 1st and 2nd UHV. I'm almost certain that I got the second, but I don't know I had the first. What do you mean by "all of China". (see savegame) EDIT: I also didn't get the 3rd UHV. (Again because I didn't know what "all of China" means)
- The art of the Tang Arbalest is broken.
- Just before 1200 AD, I barbarian Privateer spawned, ON AN ISLAND!
- The Delhi Empire became my 3rd Vassal. (after Nanzhoa and Korea) But their Dynamic name is broken. I get: "TXT_KEY_DN_SIN04".
- I saw that the art I suggested for the Pleasure district is already in use. But I have no idea which building it represents. That is one of the downsides of ethnic city styles that is used in this mod. I also saw a (modern) corporation HQ in one of my cities. :confused:

The Immortal could have the vanilla Persion Immortal pedia text.

veBear
Dec 24, 2010, 09:35 AM
- The Nanzhoa asked to be my vassal. Nothing special, but it was the 3rd game in a row. (Birman, Gokturk, Tang)

That is actually something in the LH personality. Could maybe do him next?

civ-addicted
Dec 25, 2010, 05:03 AM
Well, i got a present for you.

I think it's needless to say that i really enjoy helping create this modmod. Keep up the great work.
Frohe Weihnachten!
Vrolijk Kerstfeest!
God Jul!
And Merry Christmas to all the others out there!

merijn_v1
Dec 25, 2010, 06:29 AM
Also Frohe Weihnachten!/Vrolijk Kerstfeest!/God Jul! to you all.

Here is my christmas present.

In the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml for the barbarians (bottom), replace this:
<Buildings>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PALACE</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
[...]
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_GREAT_SPY</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
</Unit>
</Units>
(both buildings and units) with the code in the text file. It will prevent the barbs building wonders, buildings and other they shouldn't build.

Black Whole
Dec 25, 2010, 02:04 PM
Sorry for the late answer but I was hindered by our weather in germany.... yesterday I stood more than six hours at the airport, only to find out that my flight has been cancelled.... and today I spent the whole day in the train... oh well.
And then finding all those presents here just makes me happy :).

I will answer the post tomorrow, I just wanted to say:
Merry Christmas!
Frohe Weihnachten!
Joyeux Noel!
Feliz Navidad!
Wesołych świąt!

civ-addicted
Dec 26, 2010, 04:14 AM
That's one nice way to spend Christmas:sad:

I just won a with Chalukya. This was a really fun game:goodjob:
At the beginning i was very lucky because i won three or four battles with 20% chance. The barbarians were a pain in the ass, and the Ghaznavids didn't manage to take over Persia... after Chola collapsed i took their cities and played for a couple of turns to see an epic fail: Arg-e Bam generates spies, not Great Spies. I don't think that's the way it's meant to be:rolleyes:. You're always a bit disappointed if you get a spy instead of an Great Artist.
The 3rd UHV could be tuned a little. What about "Own all top 5 cities in 1200AD"? I tried and succeded:http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276876&stc=1&d=1293357131
You need more tactics this way instead of just generate culture. And another question: What do you need to be the No.1 city? (Because Vatapi sure had more culture than Tosali. Do i smell a bug here?)

veBear
Dec 26, 2010, 11:19 AM
You need more tactics this way instead of just generate culture. And another question: What do you need to be the No.1 city? (Because Vatapi sure had more culture than Tosali. Do i smell a bug here?)

If I am not mistaken, both population, culture, wonders and infastructure counts on this one, and I would guess it was the population who gave this outcome.

Edit: Probably Healt, Happiness, Production etc. too.

veBear
Dec 26, 2010, 01:50 PM
Since christmas is over already, I guess it is time for me to reveal what I would originaly like to keep a secret and reveal on christmas and is still not finished... guess who ;)

Black Whole
Dec 27, 2010, 04:29 AM
- I forgot about the Mosque of Xian.
- I can provide the code for the farm-wonder. Although you will have to say where the code is.
- I think you can solve the problem of the pre-known area by loading a game as the Harappans, go to the WB and remove the pre-known territory with the tool. (I left of the diplomacy change thing. Somewhere on the bottom left of the tools)
- I know the -40% city attack is for all missile cavalries and I do think it should stay, but I think it's annoying when you want to conquer cities in the beginning with those units.

Errrr... if you can provide the code for the farm wonder, you should know where it is? Or did I misunderstand you?
The revealed tiles aren't stored in the WB file... If I am not mistaken the tiles are revealed upon starting the game... I don't know where or how this is done....
I could reduce the penalty for the Turkish wrrior to let's say 20 %?

I thought an option to enable/disable them somewhere would be the best solution if someone desperatly wants those mercenaries
I just got the impression that civics will be ignored. But maybe that's just me. And again, i will make it my way in my version the way i want it (if i'm allowed to), making me somehow having the first RFC modmodmod.
Non-religious wonders? Phew. There are quite few, you know?

As nobody raised a voice in favor of this feature I will remove it completely. Instead there will be some events, which give you access to certain units.
Sure, you can mod it the way you like it :).
I found a small source of wonders, maybe I can use some of them. (Not the art just the names:).

And I am serious about those specialists! Just try to code something in python with specialits... this is annoying as hell ;).

But now the fun part: after two weeks of hiatus, i made my first game as Chola. But the second UHV is broken (look at line 779 in victory.py)
After fixing that, i won! Researching the techs for the wonders is the hardest part. Great People are pretty essential for that.
The second one is based on luck, because i'm not sure if even 10 civs are allowed to be alive (Göktürks, Qin and Maurya were one of my trading partners).
The third one, well, conquering. Basic stuff.
Broken in which way? First, the line you gave me is for Chalukya and here is nothing wrong with it....

I don't like the UHVs in general, because there is zero connection between all of them. Accomplishing those in the wrong order is even counterproductive. FE destroying Sri Vijaya before 1100 rules them out for a OB contract.
They are historical, in know. The timeframe is also okay, too. But i think we have to sacrifice one of them, and the second one is expendable. Having the biggest resource diversity, no wait, Sri Vijaya got that one Is it possible to count the number of resources you trade? Like "Trade 10 luxury resources", for example.
And it would be nice if at least one of those wonders would help with one of those other UHVs. For example, Vijay Stambha gives either +5% for EVERY luxury resource, or +1 stability for every conquered city. You have to watch stability even on monarch (I'm pretty afraid to play it on Emperor).
So, here is my suggestion:
1. This UHV can stay, but change the effect of one Hindu wonder you build.
2. Something based on trading. The OB is an option, if you really like it that much. But then reduce it to 8 instead of 10, so you won't lose if you decide to conquer Sri Vijaya early.
3. As i said, conquering. It's not bad, but everyone know it. What about "Don't allow any civ to have a city at the Bay of Bengal and Sumatra but you and your vasals in 1300". It's a little long, i know. It's basically the same, except for the Malay Penisula (I guess you know this map), but it sounds different. And it would be great when every civ have a UHV that doesn't exist in any other modmod. And if you make a 'by' you can win by taking all your units and smash the enemy, so without any tactics. With an 'in' you have to stabilize these areas as well. Though i normally prefer 'by', so you don't have to wait.

Changing the Vijay Stambha, so it adds stability is no problem. The gold from resources just doesn't fit the wonder. Thtas why I wanted some non-religious ones :p.
Accessing Import and Export is also doable, so how exactly should it be counted? Import luxury resources (keep in mind, that they start out with some luxury resources, so ten could be impossible). Or export that much luxury resources?
As for the third: How about 'Control or vassalize Bay of Bengalen and Strait of Malakka in 1300'?

I can't believe it: I just won a game with Vietnam (i really didn't thought this to be possible)
The first and second UHV are pretty easy, the third one is hard to crack. Stability is a major problem, you won't survive without every little bit that increases your stability. Trade techs with everyone who isn't a direct competition. I invaded Khmer and conquered a pop 13 Angkor, and luckily Nanzhao wanted to be my vasal. I finished with 5596 points.
Congratulations! I am glad to see that the goals are actually possible :lol:.

Then, I started a Tang game.
- I saw a barbarian city (Pixian) building the Great Bath. EDIT: When I looked again in 760 AD, they also had the Great Granary, Agr-e Bam and about 7 workers.
- In 755 AD, the Japanese civ had collapsed. It seems that 3 Horse archers captured their cities. IMO, the amount of barbs is too much. EDIT: Those Horse Archers left the cities, so I could capture them without a battle.
- I've got this message: "A Barbarian spy has been stumbled while upon operating near the Tang city of Wuhan".
- The Nanzhoa asked to be my vassal. Nothing special, but it was the 3rd game in a row. (Birman, Gokturk, Tang)
- I didn't get the 1st and 2nd UHV. I'm almost certain that I got the second, but I don't know I had the first. What do you mean by "all of China". (see savegame) EDIT: I also didn't get the 3rd UHV. (Again because I didn't know what "all of China" means)
- The art of the Tang Arbalest is broken.
- Just before 1200 AD, I barbarian Privateer spawned, ON AN ISLAND!
- The Delhi Empire became my 3rd Vassal. (after Nanzhoa and Korea) But their Dynamic name is broken. I get: "TXT_KEY_DN_SIN04".
- I saw that the art I suggested for the Pleasure district is already in use. But I have no idea which building it represents. That is one of the downsides of ethnic city styles that is used in this mod. I also saw a (modern) corporation HQ in one of my cities.

The Immortal could have the vanilla Persion Immortal pedia text.
The barbs shouldn't be able to construct spies and wonders thanks to you :). The barbs are more aggressive now, so I think that I will reduce the amount of them.
The Horse Archers left the cities maybe because they don't have the AI for protecting cities... And how did they get to Japan, anyway? ;).

I will make a map where it shows what is meant by all of China (basically, china today without Yunnan, Tarim Basin, Taiwan, Northern China from Liaodong peninsula).

I will fix the privateer thing :lol:. And the missing dynamic name. And the missing art ;).
The problem with the city styles is that it uses new L_SYSTEMS (e.g. L_LIBRARY). I will go through that too.

That is actually something in the LH personality. Could maybe do him next? If you want to, I would be happy :).

merijn_v1
Dec 27, 2010, 04:59 AM
Errrr... if you can provide the code for the farm wonder, you should know where it is? Or did I misunderstand you?
The revealed tiles aren't stored in the WB file... If I am not mistaken the tiles are revealed upon starting the game... I don't know where or how this is done....
I could reduce the penalty for the Turkish wrrior to let's say 20 %?

I know the code is in the C++, but I don't know if I have to upload the CvGamecore.dll or just on of those .cpp, .h etc. (In the CvGamecore folder) EDIT: I think the code is somewhere in the file in the attachment. (It's the CvGamecore.dll from RFCEurope)

You don't have to reduce the penalty for me. I just don't like it that units or buildings also have a negative effect. (But maybe you could do it as a bonus because it's an UU)



As nobody raised a voice in favor of this feature I will remove it completely. Instead there will be some events, which give you access to certain units.
Sure, you can mod it the way you like it :).
I found a small source of wonders, maybe I can use some of them. (Not the art just the names:).


Please remove the mercenaries. I hate them.


The barbs shouldn't be able to construct spies and wonders thanks to you :). The barbs are more aggressive now, so I think that I will reduce the amount of them.
The Horse Archers left the cities maybe because they don't have the AI for protecting cities... And how did they get to Japan, anyway? ;).

I will make a map where it shows what is meant by all of China (basically, china today without Yunnan, Tarim Basin, Taiwan, Northern China from Liaodong peninsula).

I will fix the privateer thing :lol:. And the missing dynamic name. And the missing art ;).
The problem with the city styles is that it uses new L_SYSTEMS (e.g. L_LIBRARY). I will go through that too.

I think the Horse Archers spawned in Japan because the code says that those units will spawn in a certain area that includes Japan. (But I'm not sure)

Please post the map, because I have no idea what areas you mention.

civ-addicted
Dec 27, 2010, 09:32 AM
Broken in which way? First, the line you gave me is for Chalukya and here is nothing wrong with it....I remember that it checked the buildings of Chalukya (second UHV), and if it failed, it sets the second UHV of Chola as failed. This way, it unchecked the second Chola UHV even if you succeeded. But it's fine if you already solved it.Accessing Import and Export is also doable, so how exactly should it be counted? Import luxury resources (keep in mind, that they start out with some luxury resources, so ten could be impossible). Or export that much luxury resources?Both, i guess. I will try some games to find an appropiate amount.As for the third: How about 'Control or vassalize Bay of Bengalen and Strait of Malakka in 1300'?
Suits me.

veBear
Dec 27, 2010, 02:43 PM
About that nanzhao leader... On a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the hardest, how hard do you want it to be to vassalize him?

civ-addicted
Dec 28, 2010, 03:09 AM
Nanzhao was the vassal of Tibet once, but in the late 8th century they helped the chinese fighting Tibet itself. They stayed independent, though there have been a lot of wars in China, until 13th century when they got conquered by the mongols.
I'd say, on your scale, 4. Something like Portugal in RFC. It won't hurt to see them being someone's vassal once in a while.

Black Whole
Dec 28, 2010, 10:29 AM
[...]
after Chola collapsed i took their cities and played for a couple of turns to see an epic fail: Arg-e Bam generates spies, not Great Spies. I don't think that's the way it's meant to be:rolleyes:. You're always a bit disappointed if you get a spy instead of an Great Artist.
The 3rd UHV could be tuned a little. What about "Own all top 5 cities in 1200AD"? I tried and succeded:http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276876&stc=1&d=1293357131
You need more tactics this way instead of just generate culture. And another question: What do you need to be the No.1 city? (Because Vatapi sure had more culture than Tosali. Do i smell a bug here?)

Hmm, how about 3 top cities instead of 5?
The number one city has already explained... but I think that the founding date also plays an important role.
Fixed the spy thing :lol:.

Concerning Nanzhao: I would even increase the number to 5 or 6... After all, they stayed independent since they once broke free...

@merijn_v1:
I will post a map as soon as possible...

merijn_v1
Dec 28, 2010, 10:42 AM
@merijn_v1:
I will post a map as soon as possible...

Could you also post the maps of the other civ UHVs. (Like uniting India under your rule, Korean UHV, the areas Majapahit has to control etc.) Is it possible you do it the same way as the RFCEurope maps.

EDIT:
I started a Japanese game. The UP doesn't seem to work properly. Eventually, I get Shinto in my cities, but that is the same as the other minor religions. I don't get them on founding or conquering.

civ-addicted
Dec 28, 2010, 11:50 AM
I've started 2 Chola games and this are the results:In the first game, Maurya was dead, and all their cities have been barbarian. It's wise to conquer Varanasi, though Chola never did; But you conquer holy cities in RFC as well, and i never heard anybody complaining about that.
I exported cotton, ivory, gems, 3x sugar, dye and lemons, and imported lemons, gems and fur, apart from even more health resources.
In the second game, Maurya was alived, but the barbarians and i attacked them and so they collapsed. Once again, i conquered all their cities and founded one in Bengals for the resources there.
I exported 2x sugar, 2x spices, 2x tea, 3x cotton, ivory and dye, and i imported gems, tea and lemons.A total of 10 to 12 imported and exported ressources does it. If we make it too high, maybe the player feel the urge to cheat, which means gifting all his luxury ressources to the AI. But that on the other hand might hurt you on the long run...

Sadly, there is a bug about the Kallarani: when they move, their head doesn't stick to their bodies. Does anybody know someone to fix that?

merijn_v1
Dec 28, 2010, 12:40 PM
I've started 2 Chola games and this are the results:In the first game, Maurya was dead, and all their cities have been barbarian. It's wise to conquer Varanasi, though Chola never did; But you conquer holy cities in RFC as well, and i never heard anybody complaining about that.
I exported cotton, ivory, gems, 3x sugar, dye and lemons, and imported lemons, gems and fur, apart from even more health resources.
In the second game, Maurya was alived, but the barbarians and i attacked them and so they collapsed. Once again, i conquered all their cities and founded one in Bengals for the resources there.
I exported 2x sugar, 2x spices, 2x tea, 3x cotton, ivory and dye, and i imported gems, tea and lemons.A total of 10 to 12 imported and exported ressources does it. If we make it too high, maybe the player feel the urge to cheat, which means gifting all his luxury ressources to the AI. But that on the other hand might hurt you on the long run...

Sadly, there is a bug about the Kallarani: when they move, their head doesn't stick to their bodies. Does anybody know someone to fix that?

The Coyote is a master in these kind of things. (He also fixed the vanilla RFC Legion)

civ-addicted
Dec 28, 2010, 02:29 PM
Oh, okay, i'll ask him.

As you mentioned the maps, suddenly that weird nostalgia (http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilization_ stability_maps) aroused... Did you thought of something like this?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=277134&stc=1&d=1293567718

This is an example for Vietnam, and only correct if i've read const.py correctly. Other civ's core areas can be added still (red areas)

merijn_v1
Dec 28, 2010, 02:37 PM
That's good. Here is an example of RFCEurope.

civ-addicted
Dec 30, 2010, 12:15 PM
In one or two weeks i'll get to them, but right now, i'd more like to spend every free second actually playing the game:p
But i need to know where exactly the values are, and which one indicates whether it's a stable area or not.

I played a Gokturk game on viceroy. I liked it; you have to be fast until 750, a bit like playing Persia in RFC. But in every game on viceroy so far, Harappa is still alive and really powerful (Ghaznavids wanted to be my vassal to make me beat Harappa up). It shouldn't matter which difficulty you choose, the starting situation should be approximatly the same. Maybe barb spawning should be on monarch level during autoplay, and switch to the difficulty you've chosen when you start. Or give the harappan AI ridiculous high unit costs on viceroy...

Then i played Ghaznavids. I got >16000 in 1200 (when you're supposed to have 12000) because of some Great Artists, but 12000 is still fine. The third one is trivial; the smallest amount i had was >6500 (and a total of >53000). You can easily get 1 Great Artist per city; this UHV is the most interesting for me. But for the second one: Conquering Persia and Punjab... you got some 15 offensive units in your capital from the start, what else are you gonna do with them? That UHV should be changed. I'd really like to see another culture-spamming UHV.
Since the timeframe is a little short, we expand it a little to:
1. accumulate a total of 12000 culture by 1200 AD
2. accumulate a total of 40000 (or up to 50000) culture by 1300 AD
3. make sure that every city has at least 6000 culture by 1350 AD
I like their current UP, but concerning that... if you're aiming for culture, artists are a great way to get that, and even better if you can have an infinite amount of them. But there is really no way to force a muslim civ to adopt Caste System because of UHVs. "All muslims are equal" is a pretty basic element in Islam, and one reason why it has been spread so successfully in the middle east. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Giving them unlimited artists in every city (maybe just those with state religion, so you have to be muslim) is more of an expidient than a better idea.

Black Whole
Jan 02, 2011, 08:29 AM
Happy new year to you all!

Sorry for the delay, but it was out of my hands...

I know the code is in the C++, but I don't know if I have to upload the CvGamecore.dll or just on of those .cpp, .h etc. (In the CvGamecore folder) EDIT: I think the code is somewhere in the file in the attachment. (It's the CvGamecore.dll from RFCEurope)
[...]

Please post the map, because I have no idea what areas you mention.

The dll file isn't the one I need... I can't read them ;). If you have access to the cpp and h files, could you upload them? Or are they available in the RFCEurope forum?

If civ-addicted would be so nice to share his map, I would gladly post a map :). (My current version isn't plabale, as I am still adding the new civs... I can't start it properly unless all important files are modified.)

Could you also post the maps of the other civ UHVs. (Like uniting India under your rule, Korean UHV, the areas Majapahit has to control etc.) Is it possible you do it the same way as the RFCEurope maps.

EDIT:
I started a Japanese game. The UP doesn't seem to work properly. Eventually, I get Shinto in my cities, but that is the same as the other minor religions. I don't get them on founding or conquering.
The maps will be certainly in the next version, so you can check them. (I will post them earlier if I have a stable version again.)

It works the way it should... since it only checks every third turn it doesn't spread immediately (will be different in the next version, when it checks every turn).

I've started 2 Chola games and this are the results:


A total of 10 to 12 imported and exported ressources does it. If we make it too high, maybe the player feel the urge to cheat, which means gifting all his luxury ressources to the AI. But that on the other hand might hurt you on the long run...

Okay, then I would start with 'Export or Import 10 luxury resources'.

Oh, okay, i'll ask him.

As you mentioned the maps, suddenly that weird nostalgia aroused... Did you thought of something like this?


This is an example for Vietnam, and only correct if i've read const.py correctly. Other civ's core areas can be added still (red areas)

Awww.... I really liked those maps for vanilla RFC... That would be cool if we include them to the download. How did you creae them? Simply with paint?

In one or two weeks i'll get to them, but right now, i'd more like to spend every free second actually playing the game
But i need to know where exactly the values are, and which one indicates whether it's a stable area or not.

I played a Gokturk game on viceroy. I liked it; you have to be fast until 750, a bit like playing Persia in RFC. But in every game on viceroy so far, Harappa is still alive and really powerful (Ghaznavids wanted to be my vassal to make me beat Harappa up). It shouldn't matter which difficulty you choose, the starting situation should be approximatly the same. Maybe barb spawning should be on monarch level during autoplay, and switch to the difficulty you've chosen when you start. Or give the harappan AI ridiculous high unit costs on viceroy...

Then i played Ghaznavids. I got >16000 in 1200 (when you're supposed to have 12000) because of some Great Artists, but 12000 is still fine. The third one is trivial; the smallest amount i had was >6500 (and a total of >53000). You can easily get 1 Great Artist per city; this UHV is the most interesting for me. But for the second one: Conquering Persia and Punjab... you got some 15 offensive units in your capital from the start, what else are you gonna do with them? That UHV should be changed. I'd really like to see another culture-spamming UHV.
Since the timeframe is a little short, we expand it a little to:
1. accumulate a total of 12000 culture by 1200 AD
2. accumulate a total of 40000 (or up to 50000) culture by 1300 AD
3. make sure that every city has at least 6000 culture by 1350 AD
I like their current UP, but concerning that... if you're aiming for culture, artists are a great way to get that, and even better if you can have an infinite amount of them. But there is really no way to force a muslim civ to adopt Caste System because of UHVs. "All muslims are equal" is a pretty basic element in Islam, and one reason why it has been spread so successfully in the middle east. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Giving them unlimited artists in every city (maybe just those with state religion, so you have to be muslim) is more of an expidient than a better idea.

Don't start those maps right now... I am currently shifting the tiles and adjusting them to make them more appropriate... And I already spent hours to find out, which area is considered stable and which not... I need to further investigate the code. (You need to look at the values in the settler maps, too. They are located in th Rhyes.cpp file in the CvGameCoreDLL, I uploaded once.)

I gave Harappa already many stability hits on spawns and increased unit costs... I will adjust the barbs too, currentlc, their number is based on difficulty. I will switch to definite numbers.

Well, I could also just reduce the number of spawning units :P.
But the goals suit me too, so that would be no problem. Just keep in mind, that in 1148. The Ghorids will break away form the Ghaznavids, so they may be facing a serious threat and that increases the likelihood, that they can't keep Punjab...
I am not sure about the new UP, though. You managed it without much problems even though you didn't have the ability to spam artists (or did you switch to caste system?) . Wouldn't it become too easy if we modify the UP?

civ-addicted
Jan 02, 2011, 09:16 AM
But the goals suit me too, so that would be no problem. Just keep in mind, that in 1148. The Ghorids will break away form the Ghaznavids, so they may be facing a serious threat and that increases the likelihood, that they can't keep Punjab...
I am not sure about the new UP, though. You managed it without much problems even though you didn't have the ability to spam artists (or did you switch to caste system?) . Wouldn't it become too easy if we modify the UP?Will the Ghorids spawn in Afghanistan or Delhi? It sure makes a difference. And the player still needs to defend those cities, because the you always lose accumulated culture with every city.

I switched to Caste System and used those free artists, yes. And almost everyone will try to use it too, because accumulating culture is so much easier (it's somehow cheating in a legal way). And that new idea is not to make the goal easier, it just seems wrong to make the player adopt a civic that simply doesn't fit the Ghaznavids in any way. This way, no one would adopt Caste System playing them.
A pretty radical solution would be to change UHVs and UP entirely, though i really can't think of any other ways playing them could be fun.Awww.... I really liked those maps for vanilla RFC... That would be cool if we include them to the download. How did you creae them? Simply with paint?I spendt an hour or so to make it with paint and i hardly finished the pacific area. Then i found out that using a screenshot of the cityname-map in excel is a lot less work.:wallbash:

merijn_v1
Jan 02, 2011, 09:58 AM
Here you can find all .cpp, .h etc. If you want to download them, go to the bottom of the page and click: "Download GNU tarball".

http://rfceurope.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rfceurope/RFCEurope/CvGameCoreDLL/

Black Whole
Jan 04, 2011, 06:18 AM
Because of the unclear formulation: 'all of China', I created a quick map in excel. The green tiles are the important ones. Those will also play a role when new Chinese dynasties emerge (though I won't tell you in which way ;)). You will also need to own cities there if you want to compete for the Mandate of Heaven, when you are not native chinese civ.

civ-addicted
Jan 05, 2011, 11:26 AM
I played a Jurchen game, and i'm afraid to say that there couldn't be more things broken.

-Their UP doesn't work, i guess. If their units recieve defensive bonus, they should be able to fortify, should they? But i have to say that the idea is genius (kudos to whoever came up with it)
-Once again, the UHV to count units doesn't work.
-I'm not sure why i failed to control northern china.
-The third UHV is declared 'failed' in the second turn. You don't want us to claim the MoH in the very first turn, do you?;)

What i don't like about the UHVs: all the UHVs have been accomplished by the Jin-Dynasty themselves. They had a large mounted army, they controled northern china and they became emperors of China.
They tried to conquer the Song territory in 1161 (they failed, of course) and finally got destroyed by the Mongols in 1234, though they have been in ridiculous superior numbers.
I don't know how the game will evolve with the Song around, but the third UHV should be "Hold the Mandate of Heaven for 30 (40?) turns", something like 150-200 years; which means 1. acutally claim it and 2. defend it against the Mongol invaders.

Tigranes
Jan 06, 2011, 01:53 PM
Dear Black Whole,

I was waiting long time for an update before I download your mod, but yesterday decided to check it anyway, and I was VERY impressed. SO many things that I liked from the first sight -- starting from the warm terrain texture and ending with new cool ideas -- staff that I value the most. And of course, to my shame, I never heard about those Vietnamese sisters -- I mean how cool is that to have 2 leaders and both female! Wow .... Fraxis needs to introduce Vietnamese civ just for that -- imagine them in Civ 5 :)

It is remarkable that given so many good ideas already existing in the RFC mods you were able to come up with new stuff -- like Silk road, like minor religions, like unusual UHVs. The map itself and the timeline offer so much, its really easy to get excited in anticipation.

I am not going to list all the bugs -- maybe closer to alpha 12 :) Right now I just want to encourage you to be more aggressive about promoting your mod and asking for help -- clearly there are so many things that should be done here, but sometimes RL becomes too real to keep us working on the things we like :) Please keep up with this wonderful development! When is the next update, I wonder? :))

Black Whole
Jan 09, 2011, 05:12 AM
Will the Ghorids spawn in Afghanistan or Delhi? It sure makes a difference. And the player still needs to defend those cities, because the you always lose accumulated culture with every city.

I switched to Caste System and used those free artists, yes. And almost everyone will try to use it too, because accumulating culture is so much easier (it's somehow cheating in a legal way). And that new idea is not to make the goal easier, it just seems wrong to make the player adopt a civic that simply doesn't fit the Ghaznavids in any way. This way, no one would adopt Caste System playing them.
A pretty radical solution would be to change UHVs and UP entirely, though i really can't think of any other ways playing them could be fun.I spendt an hour or so to make it with paint and i hardly finished the pacific area. Then i found out that using a screenshot of the cityname-map in excel is a lot less work.:wallbash:

Because of space issues, the Ghorids will spawn around Peshawar, but they will certainly start at war... Hmm, now that I think about it, I really like your proposal for the new UP... I guess I will code it (although it took hours to code the old one :p). Do you think that Caste System is overpowered the way it is now?

I will use excel for the stability maps, as this would go much faster... thanks for the advice ;). I really dislike to edit the islands in the Pacific,too... quite a hassle

Here you can find all .cpp, .h etc. If you want to download them, go to the bottom of the page and click: "Download GNU tarball".

http://rfceurope.svn.sourceforge.net...CvGameCoreDLL/
Thanks, I will check it out :).

Dear Black Whole,

I was waiting long time for an update before I download your mod, but yesterday decided to check it anyway, and I was VERY impressed. SO many things that I liked from the first sight -- starting from the warm terrain texture and ending with new cool ideas -- staff that I value the most. And of course, to my shame, I never heard about those Vietnamese sisters -- I mean how cool is that to have 2 leaders and both female! Wow .... Fraxis needs to introduce Vietnamese civ just for that -- imagine them in Civ 5

It is remarkable that given so many good ideas already existing in the RFC mods you were able to come up with new stuff -- like Silk road, like minor religions, like unusual UHVs. The map itself and the timeline offer so much, its really easy to get excited in anticipation.

I am not going to list all the bugs -- maybe closer to alpha 12 Right now I just want to encourage you to be more aggressive about promoting your mod and asking for help -- clearly there are so many things that should be done here, but sometimes RL becomes too real to keep us working on the things we like Please keep up with this wonderful development! When is the next update, I wonder?

Tehehe... :blush:. Thanks for your kind words! But it wasn't only my effort... I really have to thank my regular guests: civ-addicted, merijn_v1, veBear and some more... they really came up with cool ideas (civ-addicted is currently on the neverending quest to give each civ unique UHVs and UPs, while trying to convince the picky person, which is myself :blush:) and they even provided most of the art, which is a huge relief (Honestly, teaching myself to model/create buttons is even worse than trying to explain the concept of flying to a fish :p).

I know, that the version is far from complete... that's also the reason why I didn't promoted it that well... I wanted to create a stable version (which should be the next one, BTW), before that. And I didn't use sourceforge from the beginning, which makes it a lot harder to develop a mod with several authors... But I will do so with the next release :). Especially since I am not regularly in the forum... sometimes several times a day and then once a week... RL becomes too real, as you said :lol:.
But don't be afraid I won't give up on this project, I just have a whole wall full of ideas I want to include, so you can test it :). (For real, I bought it just for this purpose :lol:)

I don't know how long it will take for the new version though... In February and March I will have exams and won't be able to spend much time on it and I don't want to hurry just to get it released end of January. That wouldn't be realistic anyway, I hope you can understand that :).

But I will post the changelog in the second/third post and constantly update it, so you can follow my progress.

merijn_v1
Jan 09, 2011, 05:17 AM
I know, that the version is far from complete... that's also the reason why I didn't promoted it that well... I wanted to create a stable version (which should be the next one, BTW), before that. And I didn't use sourceforge from the beginning, which makes it a lot harder to develop a mod with several authors... But I will do so with the next release :). Especially since I am not regularly in the forum... sometimes several times a day and then once a week... RL becomes too real, as you said :lol:.

Really? I don't want to sound that I want to force you to it, but I was thinking of suggesting it again. But if you do it by yourself, I don't have to anymore.

Black Whole
Jan 09, 2011, 05:35 AM
I played a Jurchen game, and i'm afraid to say that there couldn't be more things broken.

-Their UP doesn't work, i guess. If their units recieve defensive bonus, they should be able to fortify, should they? But i have to say that the idea is genius (kudos to whoever came up with it)
-Once again, the UHV to count units doesn't work.
-I'm not sure why i failed to control northern china.
-The third UHV is declared 'failed' in the second turn. You don't want us to claim the MoH in the very first turn, do you?;)

What i don't like about the UHVs: all the UHVs have been accomplished by the Jin-Dynasty themselves. They had a large mounted army, they controled northern china and they became emperors of China.
They tried to conquer the Song territory in 1161 (they failed, of course) and finally got destroyed by the Mongols in 1234, though they have been in ridiculous superior numbers.
I don't know how the game will evolve with the Song around, but the third UHV should be "Hold the Mandate of Heaven for 30 (40?) turns", something like 150-200 years; which means 1. acutally claim it and 2. defend it against the Mongol invaders.
:lol:
So I can completely redo them ;).
Actually, the title Mandate of Heaven can only be claimed by one dynasty at the time... and if I am not mistaken, the Song kept this title until the Mongols defeated them (correct me if i'm wrong), so that would be unhistorical, but I like your version better :). So consider this already included.

Baron03
Jan 09, 2011, 01:37 PM
Are there any UHVs yet for the Han, Song, and Butuan? But more importantly when will the next version with all the new civs come out?

Tigranes
Jan 09, 2011, 07:16 PM
Thank you for your reply! I can see changes for Beta 1 -- but no hints when we will see the download with those changes :) Many mods keep sourceforge links available in case testers what to work with available version before it was officially released here. If you have already made those changes let us check them out! :cool:

I have tons of comments, but I will post them little by little starting from the most general ones.

In all my comments I will follow one simple guideline -- any serious mod should necessarily capture the most important milestones in the development of the given region -- political, technological and cultural. All my proposals (in this post and the later ones) will stem from this simple vision.

Lets start with the basics. The timeline -- I strongly believe that this mod should end at 1500 AD. The arrival of Europeans (Portuguese and Spanish) opened a totally new chapter in the history of region, you need to stop your mod's time somewhere, and 1500 is much more logical and "round" than 1600. To make up for the turns Ming would loose -- just make it so that after 1400 each year is represented by one turn.


Now the list of Civilizations: two very important ones are missing -- Gupta and Song. We simply cannot have a Asian mod without them. I am still trying to understand the respawn mechanics in this mod, feels like civs never respawn after they collapse. On the other hand very often we have a situation when the civ that "has to" be dead a thousand year ago is still alive and kicking. In my Ming game I had to fight Qin with 15 Wonders in Xi'an. By the way I understand that Qin stands there also for Han (Qin only had 1 emperor), so I do not request Han empire. :mischief:

As a side note -- no cities flipped to Ming after the turn 3 (Nanjing should!), but I will comment on that later. For right now I just want to offer very simple solution for Gupta and Song -- make it so that after specific date Mauryas and Tang simply change their names and leaders. Gupta and Mauryas even had the same capital. Song and Gupta deserve to be added as playable Civs, but if that is not possible at least make them available for AI, please -- with a simple name change. The main idea is that human player should see historically relevant names depending on the date he is playing. Plus/minus 100 years are fine, but no Maurya or Qin in 1368, please!

The name changes can work really well in case of many other empires. Gokturks can become Seljuks at some point, for example, and later even Kwarezm (to be there as Mongol objective, ). Or Yuezhi can become Kushan Empire (very important one, 30 -375 AD)... This way you have no headache of how to artificially collapse the old civ and spawn the new one. On the other hand if the civ does collapse it should have a chance to be reborn (after the certain date) under new name leader -- just like in regular RFC for example!

It was already mentioned about the empty Philippines -- would be really nice to add Kingdom of Tondo. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tondo) It is up to you to make it playable or not but some civ need to flourish there -- not very developed, but still...

There is a clear need for some (generic) Persian civilization... Sasanids had considerable eastern portion of the map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Sassanid-empire-610CE.png) that we use for this mod, so even if you represent Achaemenids, Seleucids and Parthians with Barbarians (Independent Immortals would be better), Sasanids deserve

Now lets talk about Muslim civs. Yes, Gaznavids were credited for delivering Islam to India after the raids by Muhammad of Ghazni, yes they were important, but for the given map one should really start with ... Caliphate! After all -- Ghaznavids endured only 100 years or so -- with the scale of this mod we should only include pretty big civs that been around for more than 100 years, otherwise one would need to add Uygur Khanate (744 - 840 AD), Kara Khitan (1124 - 1218), and so on. (Tuyuhun kingdom, on th other hand was there from 285-670, but lets think it is not big enough :) ). Bottom line -- lets rename Ghaznavids with something more generic -- Caliphate for example (even Muhammad Ghazni was formally acknowledging powerless Caliph). Ghorids/Delhi could be the second Muslim empire (their adjective currently set as Mughal, I have seen Chola building Mughal Embassy -- this should be changed of course).

But we also badly need third Muslim civ -- somewhere in Malaya/Indonesia/Brunei, to represent the existence of Muslim civilization in Indonesia upon the arrival of Europeans. Kedah Sultanate, Malacca, Brunei, Sultanate of Ternate (created 1200s-1400s) -- need to be represented by some Muslim South East Asian civ.

I will continue on the other topics (UHV to be the next one) after your feedback :)

Black Whole
Jan 10, 2011, 10:38 AM
Really? I don't want to sound that I want to force you to it, but I was thinking of suggesting it again. But if you do it by yourself, I don't have to anymore.
Now, that everyone wants it, I can do this, especially since you are also adding many files, and it just makes it easier to cooperate :).

Are there any UHVs yet for the Han, Song, and Butuan? But more importantly when will the next version with all the new civs come out?

Currently not, though you posted for the Song and veBear proposed some for Butuan, so I will use them to start with. And if you have ideas for the Han, just post them, but keep in mind that they should be not similar to already existing ones (and if you have ideas for UP, just let me know ;)).


Thank you for your reply! I can see changes for Beta 1 -- but no hints when we will see the download with those changes Many mods keep sourceforge links available in case testers what to work with available version before it was officially released here. If you have already made those changes let us check them out!
The download won't be seen because I don't even uploaded those files. It is not sure when I will release it, since there is a list of things which should be in this version and I first want to add them, so you can test it out. After that it will be on sourceforge. The changes are made, but that doesn't mean that it is playable ;).

Lets start with the basics. The timeline -- I strongly believe that this mod should end at 1500 AD. The arrival of Europeans (Portuguese and Spanish) opened a totally new chapter in the history of region, you need to stop your mod's time somewhere, and 1500 is much more logical and "round" than 1600. To make up for the turns Ming would loose -- just make it so that after 1400 each year is represented by one turn.
Actually, this seems quite sensible. I pushed it that far, because I wanted the option to add Europeans like Spain or Portugal, but I dismissed this idea, since it makes it far too complicated. Additionally, the techs seem to fit even better into the timeline :). I will keep that in mind.

Now the list of Civilizations: two very important ones are missing -- Gupta and Song. We simply cannot have a Asian mod without them. I am still trying to understand the respawn mechanics in this mod, feels like civs never respawn after they collapse. On the other hand very often we have a situation when the civ that "has to" be dead a thousand year ago is still alive and kicking. In my Ming game I had to fight Qin with 15 Wonders in Xi'an. By the way I understand that Qin stands there also for Han (Qin only had 1 emperor), so I do not request Han empire.
As you may have seen, Han and Song are already added ;). Gupta has already been proposed but I have several problems to add them:
They cover exactly the same core area and would have no place to spawn (it was already a hassle for the Chinese dynasties). India is very crowded ATM and later civs are just crippled by this fact, sadly.

About the collapse, I will look into that, since I need to do that anyway (Harappa has already been killed, so this leaves the rest to balance out...). China will face serious revolts when new dynasties emerge and rebels will wreak havoc. I don't understand the respawn mechanic, too, I need to read through that, too.

As a side note -- no cities flipped to Ming after the turn 3 (Nanjing should!), but I will comment on that later. For right now I just want to offer very simple solution for Gupta and Song -- make it so that after specific date Mauryas and Tang simply change their names and leaders. Gupta and Mauryas even had the same capital. Song and Gupta deserve to be added as playable Civs, but if that is not possible at least make them available for AI, please -- with a simple name change. The main idea is that human player should see historically relevant names depending on the date he is playing. Plus/minus 100 years are fine, but no Maurya or Qin in 1368, please!

The name changes can work really well in case of many other empires. Gokturks can become Seljuks at some point, for example, and later even Kwarezm (to be there as Mongol objective, ). Or Yuezhi can become Kushan Empire (very important one, 30 -375 AD)... This way you have no headache of how to artificially collapse the old civ and spawn the new one. On the other hand if the civ does collapse it should have a chance to be reborn (after the certain date) under new name leader -- just like in regular RFC for example!
Yeah, don't take those flipping too serious ATM... Especially China will see a complete redo in terms of spawning, flipping, etc. (Ming start in Nanjing from the next version on, BTW). That what you call a simple solution isn't that simple... if you mean it the way embryodead did it, then I would have to add them as complete new civs, ending up with 40+ civs, so this is not the way I want to go (but Song is already in, see above). And while it is true, that this not historical, this is not a scenario... it shows what could have been possible... like in vanilla RFC, upon which this modmod is based on. BTW, I just cannot add every civ, which was important... the map is too small for that (I once had it it bigger, but it was impossible to consturct a proper China... not to mention the Mongol empire).

It was already mentioned about the empty Philippines -- would be really nice to add Kingdom of Tondo. It is up to you to make it playable or not but some civ need to flourish there -- not very developed, but still...

There is a clear need for some (generic) Persian civilization... Sasanids had considerable eastern portion of the map that we use for this mod, so even if you represent Achaemenids, Seleucids and Parthians with Barbarians (Independent Immortals would be better), Sasanids deserve
Butuan has been added for the Phillipines, and the unplayable Seleukids (representing the Indo Greek culture in general) fill that part of the map. Persia isn't a good choice here, as they were more active in the west than in the east. (IIRC)

Now lets talk about Muslim civs. Yes, Gaznavids were credited for delivering Islam to India after the raids by Muhammad of Ghazni, yes they were important, but for the given map one should really start with ... Caliphate! After all -- Ghaznavids endured only 100 years or so -- with the scale of this mod we should only include pretty big civs that been around for more than 100 years, otherwise one would need to add Uygur Khanate (744 - 840 AD), Kara Khitan (1124 - 1218), and so on. (Tuyuhun kingdom, on th other hand was there from 285-670, but lets think it is not big enough ). Bottom line -- lets rename Ghaznavids with something more generic -- Caliphate for example (even Muhammad Ghazni was formally acknowledging powerless Caliph). Ghorids/Delhi could be the second Muslim empire (their adjective currently set as Mughal, I have seen Chola building Mughal Embassy -- this should be changed of course).

But we also badly need third Muslim civ -- somewhere in Malaya/Indonesia/Brunei, to represent the existence of Muslim civilization in Indonesia upon the arrival of Europeans. Kedah Sultanate, Malacca, Brunei, Sultanate of Ternate (created 1200s-1400s) -- need to be represented by some Muslim South East Asian civ.
I don't see why I should add any of them... Don't take it bad, though, I want to explain why:
Adding civs is a huge task, because the balancing of core areas, stability maps, etc. takes ages... Adding the four civs took me three weeks just coding and fixing...
The Caliphate is a trading partner in the Silk Road mechanic. The Caliphate isn't a real civ, as it consisted of several dynasties fighting and struggling for power. Sure there have been dyasties which were able to construct an enormous ampire, but they were centered more in the west. The Ghaznavids on the other hand, really tried to expand into India, they were the first Turkic (slave) state, promoted Persian culture, etc....
Uyghur Khanate: Where should they live? Most of their territory is desert, so they end up with many crappy cities, and they even promoted Manichaeism, so I wouldn't say, they were an important Muslim civ...
Kara Khitan: Hmm, too close to China and also only crappy cities... (I mean that I really would get problems with the stability areas, core areas, etc..)
I don't know the Tuyuhun though, so I can't say much about them.

As for SEAsia, Those Sultanates were so small and let's face it, their empire would consist of one city... Not very fun, I would say, since every expansion hurts your stability, instead I added indies, with Islam in it (or better will have Islam in them ;)), so I don't see a reason to add them.

I will continue on the other topics (UHV to be the next one) after your feedback
Cool! I am glad you put so much effort in that ;). Don't take it bad, when I don't like your proposal, but concerning civs, I am pretty much at the limit...

P.S.: You post number is a binary code: 10100111 :lol:.

merijn_v1
Jan 10, 2011, 10:41 AM
Now, that everyone wants it, I can do this, especially since you are also adding many files, and it just makes it easier to cooperate :).

That is the main reason why I suggested it. ;)

civ-addicted
Jan 10, 2011, 01:59 PM
Because of space issues, the Ghorids will spawn around Peshawar, but they will certainly start at war... Hmm, now that I think about it, I really like your proposal for the new UP... I guess I will code it (although it took hours to code the old one :p). Do you think that Caste System is overpowered the way it is now?


I usually adopt Caste System, except when i play Nanzhao or Khmer because of their UHVs. But the AI really likes Feudal. If we make Caste System weaker (like giving -50% :gp:) or more expensive, we have to fix Feudal as well, i'm afraid.

Currently not, though you posted for the Song and veBear proposed some for Butuan, so I will use them to start with. And if you have ideas for the Han, just post them, but keep in mind that they should be not similar to already existing ones (and if you have ideas for UP, just let me know ;)).I do have something in mind: They are the one behind the japanese Kanji and the korean Hanja, and there isn't an appropiate way to show how China influenced those civs...You know where i'm going. Confucianism, more of a philosophy than an actual religion, can represent chinese culture in general. This brings me to the UHVs:
1. Build 10 Confucian Academies and 10 Confucian Temples OR 20 confucian buildings, which includes their acadamies, temples, the shrine and wonders. This implies conquering China
2. Make sure that Korea, Japan and Vietnam adopt Confucianism
3. Spread Confucianism to X%, like spreading it to Tibet, the rest of SE asia or India. Think about indians writing with chinese letters:) OR make 6 non-chinese civs adopt Confucianism
The thing is just to see a direct connection between Confucianism and chinese culture...
If you like those UHVs, their UP could help spreading Confucianism. Open Borders with every civ you're at peace for example, or making your units cross foreign borders.
P.S.: You post number is a binary code: 10100111 :lol:.Geezus, that is so nerdy:lol:

I'm not that sure about Gupta. A little unortodox solution could be renaming Maurya to Gupta, with a new flag and a new LH, whether they adopt Buddhism (Maurya) or Hinduism (Gupta). Sometimes it bugs me to see a Hindu Maurya Empire.
And Gupta seems to have a lobby here

Baron03
Jan 10, 2011, 04:15 PM
My idea for the Han:
UP- Conscription Labor- military units produced with food
Papermaking- +1 gold per resource owned
Iron metallurgy- units required for iron produced faster
Herbal Medicine- all units start with medic 1
UHV- have two vassals by year Y
Control X amount of salt and or iron resources by year Y
Build X amount of Confucian buildings by year Y
Spread Confucianism to X% by year Y
UB- shaft mine (forge)
UU- Militia- (one swordsman/spearman/axeman) replace pikemen or swordsman

Tigranes
Jan 10, 2011, 07:33 PM
Cool! I am glad you put so much effort in that ;). Don't take it bad, when I don't like your proposal, but concerning civs, I am pretty much at the limit...


I don't take it bad at all, I don't get discouraged so easily :mischief:

I don't know why do you prefer Butuan vs Tondo (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Ph_locator_map_luzon.png)? Butuan was just another (small) kingdom on southern Mindanao Island. On the other hand Luzon and Tondo became a center from which Chinese goods were traded all across Southeast Asia. The Ming Empire treated Luzon traders more favorably than Japan by allowing them to trade with China once every two years, while Japan was only allowed to trade once every 10 years -- according Wikipedia.

Now I really don't know why do we need a Han dynasty if Qin can play the role of the latter? See, Qin Dynasty was around for 14 years only. If somebody will argue that it really meant to be there as Qin state -- than at least 1 UHV must be something about Qin state -- right now all three fit in the lifespan of Qin Shihuang -- the First Emperor. Han came right after the Qin and utilized many aspects of Qin except Legalism was replaced by Confucianism. Legalism is not even a minor religion, so just rename Qin as Han dynamically around 200 BC...

With the Gupta and the others (including proposed Qin/Han transformation) I did not mean SoI's Ghorids/Delhi analogy. I rather mean something like Ashoka/Ghandi Maurya/Modern India -- in regular RFC. So we would have different leaders and different civ names but the same civ! Same is done in RFCE (consider Charlemagne Frankia-Louis XIV France there). We just need some Gupta leaderhead and dynamic date-based name change -- thats it!

Black Whole
Jan 11, 2011, 01:59 PM
I usually adopt Caste System, except when i play Nanzhao or Khmer because of their UHVs. But the AI really likes Feudal. If we make Caste System weaker (like giving -50% :gp:) or more expensive, we have to fix Feudal as well, i'm afraid.
Okay, then I will correct them ;).

I do have something in mind: They are the one behind the japanese Kanji and the korean Hanja, and there isn't an appropiate way to show how China influenced those civs...You know where i'm going. Confucianism, more of a philosophy than an actual religion, can represent chinese culture in general. This brings me to the UHVs:
1. Build 10 Confucian Academies and 10 Confucian Temples OR 20 confucian buildings, which includes their acadamies, temples, the shrine and wonders. This implies conquering China
2. Make sure that Korea, Japan and Vietnam adopt Confucianism
3. Spread Confucianism to X%, like spreading it to Tibet, the rest of SE asia or India. Think about indians writing with chinese letters:) OR make 6 non-chinese civs adopt Confucianism
The thing is just to see a direct connection between Confucianism and chinese culture...
If you like those UHVs, their UP could help spreading Confucianism. Open Borders with every civ you're at peace for example, or making your units cross foreign borders.
First one is okay, third one too...
The second though isn't that easy because, you need to keep in mind, that those civs can also just collapse and make your goal impossible, so I prefer another one...
The UP seems okay, but I don't know how to code it... I could take some time.

Geezus, that is so nerdy:lol:
Right before answering this post, I had lecture in 'Fundamentals of Computational Engineering'... I guess my thoughts were still there ;)

I'm not that sure about Gupta. A little unortodox solution could be renaming Maurya to Gupta, with a new flag and a new LH, whether they adopt Buddhism (Maurya) or Hinduism (Gupta). Sometimes it bugs me to see a Hindu Maurya Empire.
And Gupta seems to have a lobby here
Which again isn't that easy doable, because changinge flags requires new civ settings in the DLL if I understood embryodead's code correctly... It is not that I don't want to add them, I just have not the possibility...

My idea for the Han:
UP- Conscription Labor- military units produced with food
Papermaking- +1 gold per resource owned
Iron metallurgy- units required for iron produced faster
Herbal Medicine- all units start with medic 1
UHV- have two vassals by year Y
Control X amount of salt and or iron resources by year Y
Build X amount of Confucian buildings by year Y
Spread Confucianism to X% by year Y
UB- shaft mine (forge)
UU- Militia- (one swordsman/spearman/axeman) replace pikemen or swordsman

I'll consider your proposals and choose ;). But UB and UU are already done (Archive and Zhuge Nu).

I don't take it bad at all, I don't get discouraged so easily

I don't know why do you prefer Butuan vs Tondo? Butuan was just another (small) kingdom on southern Mindanao Island. On the other hand Luzon and Tondo became a center from which Chinese goods were traded all across Southeast Asia. The Ming Empire treated Luzon traders more favorably than Japan by allowing them to trade with China once every two years, while Japan was only allowed to trade once every 10 years -- according Wikipedia.
Well, I think I can still change that... but do you know more about them, for UHV, UB, UU, UP (for Butuan, they are already done, so I would be glad if I could reuse them).


Now I really don't know why do we need a Han dynasty if Qin can play the role of the latter? See, Qin Dynasty was around for 14 years only. If somebody will argue that it really meant to be there as Qin state -- than at least 1 UHV must be something about Qin state -- right now all three fit in the lifespan of Qin Shihuang -- the First Emperor. Han came right after the Qin and utilized many aspects of Qin except Legalism was replaced by Confucianism. Legalism is not even a minor religion, so just rename Qin as Han dynamically around 200 BC...
The Qin will spawn around 849 BC, so the state of Qin is also represented... do you have a good idea for an UHV that suits the state? And I really dislike the dynamic renaming, I will tell you why further down.


With the Gupta and the others (including proposed Qin/Han transformation) I did not mean SoI's Ghorids/Delhi analogy. I rather mean something like Ashoka/Ghandi Maurya/Modern India -- in regular RFC. So we would have different leaders and different civ names but the same civ! Same is done in RFCE (consider Charlemagne Frankia-Louis XIV France there). We just need some Gupta leaderhead and dynamic date-based name change -- thats it!
Okay, the state name would be possible as well as the LHs. (I found out that Rhye used this transformation depending on era...) But what wouldn't be possible: flags, adjective, colour, etc... So we would end up with a mixture of Gupta/Maurya civ... but if we could find a general adjective for maurya/gupta and the flag wouldn't matter we could combine them. This wouldn't be for the others you proposed though (gokturks -> seljuk for example...)

merijn_v1
Jan 11, 2011, 02:20 PM
I'll consider your proposals and choose ;). But UB and UU are already done (Archive and Zhuge Nu).

Didn't we already have an UB that's called Archive?

hangman
Jan 11, 2011, 05:22 PM
Hello, I've been lurking around the RFC forums for about a month, so I'll make my introduction here I guess :)

So I've had a month of absolutely nothing to do and wound up learning how to add modcomps to mods, and learned some python and xml in the process. I really enjoyed Sword of Islam, so I'll try to help out with this one.

I downloaded v0.6 with patch B, so some of the things might have changed, but here goes:

Errata:
-silk road access shows up with the aluminum icon from the tga file :S
-I played a game as Sri Vijaya, and it crashed shortly before I tryed invading that city that flips in Malaysia. I'm thinking it probably tried to flip my own units to me or something like that.
-I also had a crash a few turns into a game as Korea. Then again, that may be simply because I didn't have the patch at the time :D
-The Jurchen empire has Holy Roman Empire city names, and Tibet started getting Norse names when it expanded into Bangladesh. I'm guessing this won't be too difficult to fix.

The Good:
-I like the silk road mechanic, although none of the current access points are actually on the slik roads. Maybe what you could do is make a set of silk road access points in western China/central Asia that give different benefits, and call the current ones something else.
-seems to be reasonably paced and fairly well balanced; I haven't gotten the ridiculously huge cash flows I managed to get with RFC Europe :)
-luxury resources are unevenly distributed, which I think would encourage trade
-I like the resource-specific buildings (i.e. the tea house)

The Bad:
-there don't seem to be a whole lot of AI wars. I think one of the things that made SoI fun to me was that there were often several waves of empires trying to control the same few regions. You could probably up the action by placing a much bigger diplomatic hit from religious differences, with a lesser penalty between buddhism and hinduism.
-The game I played as Sri Vijaya had Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism founded in Harappa, and Hinduism in China. Maybe there should be some kind of regional control to make it more realistic.
-On that note, Harappa may be overpowered, and it might be good to add some python codes that force certain civs to collapse by certain dates.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll see if I can come up with anything else.

hangman
Jan 11, 2011, 07:46 PM
More stuff:

-The audio clips for zoroastrianism and manicheanism are loud and kind of annoying; I would take the zoroastrian sound clip from SoI, tbh
-Also, the religion sound clip plays twice for the minor religions. I'd recommend not playing an audio file for the "Some religion has brought some stuff to some city" text.
-Just played for a while as the Yuezhi. I think it would be good to have the Gokturks at war with the Yuezhi when they spawn.

Leoreth
Jan 12, 2011, 05:09 AM
Just started to play it for a few minutes, and I have to say it's really impressive! Still need some time to wriggle myself through everything, especially because I know next to nothing about East Asian history ...

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Gupta and Maurya should be entirely different civs, as they don't have that much in common (and Maurya's spawn should make sure Gupta doesn't survive too long) and would be good for rather different UHVs.

I don't know if you're already aware of it, The Capo has made a Chandragupta Maurya (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14276) LH you could use in any case. There's also a dedicated LH for the IVC labeled "Dravidian Priest King" (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14460) in the DB, might be better than the Mesopotamian looking current one.

Black Whole
Jan 12, 2011, 06:44 AM
Didn't we already have an UB that's called Archive?
Yeah, but it goes to the Han, since the Qin burnt texts and literature... so I don't think that the Archive suits the Qin dynasty ;). The Qin get the Legalist School instead. (To represent Legalism in a way...)

Hello, I've been lurking around the RFC forums for about a month, so I'll make my introduction here I guess
Welcome to the CivFanatics ;)!


Errata:
-silk road access shows up with the aluminum icon from the tga file :S
-I played a game as Sri Vijaya, and it crashed shortly before I tryed invading that city that flips in Malaysia. I'm thinking it probably tried to flip my own units to me or something like that.
-I also had a crash a few turns into a game as Korea. Then again, that may be simply because I didn't have the patch at the time
-The Jurchen empire has Holy Roman Empire city names, and Tibet started getting Norse names when it expanded into Bangladesh. I'm guessing this won't be too difficult to fix.

1. This will be done sometimes, eventually, but editing TGAs always ends up in a sheer catastrophe... But I have that in mind :).
2 and 3. Hmm... I also sometimes have crashes but they are absolutely random, I didn't have a chance to track them down... For future crash reports, could you upload a save just before it crashes? Otherwise, it will be quite impossible to find the problem...
4. Jurchen already have a new city map but not until the next version, so you need to wait until I am done with the next version ;). If you know how the cities in Bangladesh are called in Tibetan language, I would be glad to hear them ;). But in the next version Tibet founds only Tibetan cities (namewise) and shouldn't expand that much in to Bangladesh.


The Good:
-I like the silk road mechanic, although none of the current access points are actually on the slik roads. Maybe what you could do is make a set of silk road access points in western China/central Asia that give different benefits, and call the current ones something else.
-seems to be reasonably paced and fairly well balanced; I haven't gotten the ridiculously huge cash flows I managed to get with RFC Europe
-luxury resources are unevenly distributed, which I think would encourage trade
-I like the resource-specific buildings (i.e. the tea house)

1. I am glad you like it, but the points are well researched... the Access in the Seas are part of what is called 'Maritime Silk Road', so they are at the right place. I guess you meant the land access. In that case, Camels resource should represent those.
2. Really? I am glad to hear that, I wasn't sure it was too few bonus from the Silk Road... balancing isn't my cup of tea :lol:.
3. Again, I spent much research into that, so I am happy, that you like the result :).
4. This was a nostalgic feature from civ3.... I liked them, so I added them :).


The Bad:
-there don't seem to be a whole lot of AI wars. I think one of the things that made SoI fun to me was that there were often several waves of empires trying to control the same few regions. You could probably up the action by placing a much bigger diplomatic hit from religious differences, with a lesser penalty between buddhism and hinduism.
-The game I played as Sri Vijaya had Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism founded in Harappa, and Hinduism in China. Maybe there should be some kind of regional control to make it more realistic.
-On that note, Harappa may be overpowered, and it might be good to add some python codes that force certain civs to collapse by certain dates.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'll see if I can come up with anything else.
1. I know, but as this is still an alpha, I think it should become much better in the beta version. Religious wars didn't play an important role in Asia (excluding Islamic conquest and the aggressive repulsion of Buddhists in China during Tang/Song dynasty (IIRC)), so increasing those attitudes wuld be unrealistic. I would instead increase the role of trading and diplomacy, so cancelling OB would be more painful, etc. How about an additional attitude, which represents Chinese feeling of superiority towards other empires? Or something along those lines...

Thanks for your input, I welcome that :)!

More stuff:

-The audio clips for zoroastrianism and manicheanism are loud and kind of annoying; I would take the zoroastrian sound clip from SoI, tbh
-Also, the religion sound clip plays twice for the minor religions. I'd recommend not playing an audio file for the "Some religion has brought some stuff to some city" text.
-Just played for a while as the Yuezhi. I think it would be good to have the Gokturks at war with the Yuezhi when they spawn.
1. I didn't even know that SoI had asound for Zoro... I will listen too it and reduce the volume of the Manichaeism one.
2. Okay I will disable it.
3. There is a chance that they will start at war. I don't want to be that deterministic and force two civ, which didn't exist at the same time BTW, into a war...

Just started to play it for a few minutes, and I have to say it's really impressive! Still need some time to wriggle myself through everything, especially because I know next to nothing about East Asian history ...

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that Gupta and Maurya should be entirely different civs, as they don't have that much in common (and Maurya's spawn should make sure Gupta doesn't survive too long) and would be good for rather different UHVs.

I don't know if you're already aware of it, The Capo has made a Chandragupta Maurya LH you could use in any case. There's also a dedicated LH for the IVC labeled "Dravidian Priest King" in the DB, might be better than the Mesopotamian looking current one.
Thanks! The history is quite complicated, especially since you don't hear much of it in general... And the foreign names don't make it easier ;).

I am of the same option, but since I just don't have the space to add Guptas, which would gobble up Maurya (I guess you meant it that way ;)), I decided to merge them somehow...

I already noticed that but I hadn't good use for him though... and about Harappa LH, I chose the Mesopotamian one because the Indus culture had strong ties to Sumeria (at least, they had good trading relations, but there some hints which even point to cultural ties... heck some even go that far to say that Egyptian and Mesopotamian culture were copies of Harappa ;)) and if I am not mistaken, they were ethnically totally different from the Dravidian people...

Leoreth
Jan 12, 2011, 08:11 AM
From what I know (which isn't much) historians still argue whether the IVC was Dravidian or not. I was proposing him regardless because he at least doesn't spark Mesopotamian associations.

On Gupta/Maurya: I don't think it matters that they share the same area, they shouldn't coexist anyway. You could make the Mauryan core contain most of Gupta's land, so that they get reduced in size and maybe subsequently collapse completely, so that the Maurya replace them.

Tigranes
Jan 12, 2011, 08:28 AM
From what I know (which isn't much) historians still argue whether the IVC was Dravidian or not. I was proposing him regardless because he at least doesn't spark Mesopotamian associations.

On Gupta/Maurya: I don't think it matters that they share the same area, they shouldn't coexist anyway. You could make the Mauryan core contain most of Gupta's land, so that they get reduced in size and maybe subsequently collapse completely, so that the Maurya replace them.

You mean Gupta to replace Maurya, richtig? ;)

civ-addicted
Jan 12, 2011, 08:39 AM
Okay, then I will correct them ;).First one is okay, third one too...
The second though isn't that easy because, you need to keep in mind, that those civs can also just collapse and make your goal impossible, so I prefer another one...
The UP seems okay, but I don't know how to code it... I could take some time.I had an analogy to RFC's India in mind. You had to found the religions which were founded there, and even more, though terribly ahistorical;). Doing something they did and top that.
And don't take it too literally. If one of them is dead, you have to spread Confucianism in their core cities, fe.

The Bad:
-The game I played as Sri Vijaya had Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism founded in Harappa, and Hinduism in China. Maybe there should be some kind of regional control to make it more realistic.

After the first time, i thought this to be an absolute OMFG moment. But it's gotten rather common, something like 1 in 10 games (and after messing around with the leaderhead .xml file it's even worse:blush:)
Hinduism shouldn't be founded by any civ, but scripted by the independents in Varansi. Increase the cost of the Hindu tech (Polytheism?) (times 1.5, fe), and remove the FLAVOR tag in the xml file that makes Vatavelli research Alchemy. Problem solved.

How are the dynamic civ names doing. Will there ever be a category whether the civ holds the MoH? I thought about giving every single civ one of those names, which could resolve in a challenge to claim it.

Tigranes
Jan 12, 2011, 09:23 AM
Well, I think I can still change that... but do you know more about them, for UHV, UB, UU, UP (for Butuan, they are already done, so I would be glad if I could reuse them).


Kingdom of Tondo (starting circa 1300, it was there before but we want it closer to Ming times)

Leader
Queen Dayang Kalangitan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayang_Kalangitan)
(We should be able to find Filipino looking lady in these Forums! :D)

UB and UU could be just like Butuan

UP -- something to represent trade with China . If you ever add resources like porcelain and jade, then

UP -- Power of Maritime Trade -- extra trade route in Capital for every Silk, Jade and Porcelain controlled.

UHV1 : Settle 3(4?) Great Merchants in Capital by 1450
UHV2: Have at least 7 trade routes in capital in 1450
UHV3: Sink 20 Pirate/Barbarian ships (jelous Japanese resorted to piracy -- famous Wokou pirates need to be represented somehow at some point).


As for the Qin state -- perhaps be the first civ to switch to Meritocracy (or discover the corresponding tech) could be the right solution.

Leoreth
Jan 12, 2011, 10:06 AM
You mean Gupta to replace Maurya, richtig? ;)
Stimmt :D I mixed them up, which is just another hint that I'm not that well-versed on Indian history :)

hangman
Jan 12, 2011, 02:58 PM
2 and 3. Hmm... I also sometimes have crashes but they are absolutely random, I didn't have a chance to track them down... For future crash reports, could you upload a save just before it crashes? Otherwise, it will be quite impossible to find the problem...

Will do.

I am glad you like it, but the points are well researched... the Access in the Seas are part of what is called 'Maritime Silk Road', so they are at the right place. I guess you meant the land access. In that case, Camels resource should represent those.

Oh, I didn't know that... the moar you know :)

But yeah, that's basically what I meant.

Religious wars didn't play an important role in Asia (excluding Islamic conquest and the aggressive repulsion of Buddhists in China during Tang/Song dynasty (IIRC)), so increasing those attitudes wuld be unrealistic. I would instead increase the role of trading and diplomacy, so cancelling OB would be more painful, etc. How about an additional attitude, which represents Chinese feeling of superiority towards other empires? Or something along those lines...

I still think you could raise tensions at various levels in a pairwise fashion, like in SoI. Not sure how to code that though. I don't think it would hurt to add the inquisitor modcomp, and then adjust the different civs' willingness to build it.

There is a chance that they will start at war. I don't want to be that deterministic and force two civ, which didn't exist at the same time BTW, into a war...

True, that makes sense.

I don't think it's been done before, but it might be interesting to do some UHV's based on espionage, like poisoning a certain number of cities or something like that. I'm not sure if it fits in historically, but it would certainly bring some extra diversity, and make espionage a little less marginal :)

Some modcomps you might look into:

Shrimp
Inquisitor Unit
Cities can produce espionage

More stuff:
-The button for aluminum is a picture of camels.
-I think the Majapahit may have a difficult start due to inflation.
-Indonesia isn't too exciting with respect to wars until the Majapahit, though I'm not really sure what to do about that...
-I think adding Siam and having them spawn around 1300 (maybe a little before to add a challenge for the Khmer's UHV) would be a good idea.

hangman
Jan 12, 2011, 05:17 PM
I took RFC Marathon's helper displays and added the python code and fixed the tga files (as far as that goes).

civ-addicted
Jan 13, 2011, 06:34 AM
I just remembered (Thanks to RFC in Abundance) that the current citynamemanager is corrupted in some lines:
Copy-paste:

Line 1653:
elif (sName == 'Ji' or sName == 'Youzhou' or sName == 'Zhongdu' or sName == 'Khanbaliq' or sName == 'Beijing')

Line 1664:
city.setName('Yarkand', False)

Line 1696:
elif (sName == 'Yarkand' or sName == 'Yeken'):

Line 1785:
elif (sName == 'Yarkand' or sName == 'Shache'):

Line 1805:
elif (sName == 'Yarkand' or sName == 'Shache'):

Line 1807:
elif (sName == 'Yan' or sName == 'Ji' or sName == 'Zhongdu' or sName == 'Khanbaliq' or sName == 'Beijing'):

Line 1858:
elif (sName == 'Yarkand' or sName == 'Shache'):

Line 1880
elif (sName == 'Yarkand' or sName == 'Shache'):2 major hiccups: I blindly ctrl-c'ed the renaming of Beijing by the various civs, and mixed up Yarkand as Yarkant. I changed that pretty early in my version, but totally forgot to post the correct file:blush:
Please post if i you find something odd in the renaming process:please:

Black Whole
Jan 13, 2011, 01:15 PM
From what I know (which isn't much) historians still argue whether the IVC was Dravidian or not. I was proposing him regardless because he at least doesn't spark Mesopotamian associations.

On Gupta/Maurya: I don't think it matters that they share the same area, they shouldn't coexist anyway. You could make the Mauryan core contain most of Gupta's land, so that they get reduced in size and maybe subsequently collapse completely, so that the Maurya replace them.

Actually, it was my intention to spark Mesopotamien associations... But if teh others find it awkward, too, then I will replace him.

Is it possible to place the core areas, so they overlap? I thought this would lead to a crash...

After the first time, i thought this to be an absolute OMFG moment. But it's gotten rather common, something like 1 in 10 games (and after messing around with the leaderhead .xml file it's even worse)
Hinduism shouldn't be founded by any civ, but scripted by the independents in Varansi. Increase the cost of the Hindu tech (Polytheism?) (times 1.5, fe), and remove the FLAVOR tag in the xml file that makes Vatavelli research Alchemy. Problem solved.

How are the dynamic civ names doing. Will there ever be a category whether the civ holds the MoH? I thought about giving every single civ one of those names, which could resolve in a challenge to claim it.

Huh? Are there flavour tags for techs in the Leaderheads.xml? I only know those in the DLL... and there he they already have low priority on Polytheism (only 1/4 of normal), and reducing it more would lead to a refusal to research it... And Vatavelli shouldn't go for Alchemy (only 1/3 of normal) either... ugh.

I am currently improving this feature and giving them a name from the Mandate should ba an easy task... (Well I hope so, since the dynamic names are hardcoded in the DLL,
it could overwrite the python coded ones...)
Currently I have the following pattern in mind:
Special name if Muslim (Emirate/Sultanate/Caliphate (well... could be better ;))
Names when running Tyranny/Oligarchy
Named when running Monarchy/Elective Monarchy
Named when running Autocracy
Named when vassal of Chinese civ
Named when having more than 7 cities (applies only to some civs).

Currently I have following state names, I would be glad if someone could post more ideas and diversity
People
Kingdom
Duchy
Chiefdom
Empire
Rajahnate
Thalassocracy
City States
Shahdom
Padshahdom
Federation
Khanate
Khaganate
Sultanate
Emirate
Kaisaradom


Kingdom of Tondo (starting circa 1300, it was there before but we want it closer to Ming times)

Leader
Queen Dayang Kalangitan
(We should be able to find Filipino looking lady in these Forums! )

UB and UU could be just like Butuan

UP -- something to represent trade with China . If you ever add resources like porcelain and jade, then

UP -- Power of Maritime Trade -- extra trade route in Capital for every Silk, Jade and Porcelain controlled.

UHV1 : Settle 3(4?) Great Merchants in Capital by 1450
UHV2: Have at least 7 trade routes in capital in 1450
UHV3: Sink 20 Pirate/Barbarian ships (jelous Japanese resorted to piracy -- famous Wokou pirates need to be represented somehow at some point).


As for the Qin state -- perhaps be the first civ to switch to Meritocracy (or discover the corresponding tech) could be the right solution.

I don't see why we couldn't let Tondo start around 1000 AD, it would be much less of a coding effort and historical... They will live until Ming times, don't be afraid ;).

I'll consider the UHVs ( most of them are already used by others...). The Wokou are represented BTW... They show up as Privateers ;).

Meritocracy comes much too late for the Qin... I would prefer another goal.

I don't think it's been done before, but it might be interesting to do some UHV's based on espionage, like poisoning a certain number of cities or something like that. I'm not sure if it fits in historically, but it would certainly bring some extra diversity, and make espionage a little less marginal

Some modcomps you might look into:

Shrimp
Inquisitor Unit
Cities can produce espionage

More stuff:
-The button for aluminum is a picture of camels.
-I think the Majapahit may have a difficult start due to inflation.
-Indonesia isn't too exciting with respect to wars until the Majapahit, though I'm not really sure what to do about that...
-I think adding Siam and having them spawn around 1300 (maybe a little before to add a challenge for the Khmer's UHV) would be a good idea.
Espionage based UHV sounds interesting... do you have an idea which civ would be good?

Cities can already produce espionage with the Diplomacy tech ;).
Inquistors aren't needed I think... This concept was used in Europe and the Middle East but not in Asia...
And I might consider Shrimp although we already have enough health and sea resources...

- Aluminium shouldn't be in, anyway :p.
- Inflation is reduced in the next version.
- I added some indies to conquer as Sri Vijaya, but that's all I can offer... (The AI is terrible at waging wars overseas...)
- They wouldn't have much space too expand, SEAsia is already crowded enough as it is...

I took RFC Marathon's helper displays and added the python code and fixed the tga files (as far as that goes).

Cool!... But what are those helpers exactly? And what did you fix in the TGA files? I thought they are good as they are...

2 major hiccups: I blindly ctrl-c'ed the renaming of Beijing by the various civs, and mixed up Yarkand as Yarkant. I changed that pretty early in my version, but totally forgot to post the correct file
I already found and corrected them ;).

Leoreth
Jan 13, 2011, 02:21 PM
Do you think there are so many different names needed? I mean, it's not like RFC where there are much more different eras and forms of government.

So I suggest you rename more on a per civ basis, i.e. only when you really think it makes sense historically.

merijn_v1
Jan 13, 2011, 02:24 PM
@ Black Whole

When do you expect the new version. I can't wait for the new features.

Tigranes
Jan 13, 2011, 03:26 PM
That's what he said :) At least open that sourceforge account, please!

civ-addicted
Jan 13, 2011, 03:30 PM
Actually, it was my intention to spark Mesopotamien associations... But if teh others find it awkward, too, then I will replace him.I'm fine with Vatavelli.Huh? Are there flavour tags for techs in the Leaderheads.xml? I only know those in the DLL... and there he they already have low priority on Polytheism (only 1/4 of normal), and reducing it more would lead to a refusal to research it... And Vatavelli shouldn't go for Alchemy (only 1/3 of normal) either... ugh.Yeah, they do exist. That's the only way i can screw around with those values:lol:
Alchemy has a religion and gold flavor, and Vatavelli has 6 at the gold flavor, maybe that's the problem. He should be more into building wonders and settles imo.
But it wouldn't be TOO bad to see Harappa founding Hinduism once in a blue moon.I am currently improving this feature and giving them a name from the Mandate should ba an easy task... (Well I hope so, since the dynamic names are hardcoded in the DLL,
it could overwrite the python coded ones...)Ooooh, that sounds great

I agree with Leoroth. Don't overdo it, it might looked faux in the end.
Rather simpify it, based on size of the empire and it's culture only

Tigranes
Jan 13, 2011, 07:40 PM
I went to Const.py and changed Qin's spawn date to 850 BC. Sorry to say but even this extra time gives Human player less than 90 turns to finish the Grand research and building program you want him to accomplish (currently it's a pure joke, all the wonders are 2 techs away and you have only 40 turns to finish them, while building and paying for 70 Warriors). The Wonder UHV fails to fail after 220 AD ( I only pulled Great Wall and Terracota). San Tzu is doable if you cancel Literature requirement.
This is all on Monarch, of course, Emperor would need a major barbarian nerfing, no civ comes even close to survive their onslaught.

On the positive side , after all the testing and editing done, Qin would require a very clever strategy and resourcefulness from the player. I only hope that will not take 4 years as with RFCE :crazyeye:

hangman
Jan 14, 2011, 03:11 AM
Cool!... But what are those helpers exactly? And what did you fix in the TGA files? I thought they are good as they are...

I added helpers for stability, next great person, and next great general in the top left corner of the main screen. There were a couple of icons that I had to add in for it to show up properly.

It didn't take me that long, so if you like, I can do more work on the tga files.

Leoreth
Jan 14, 2011, 04:00 AM
Actually, it was my intention to spark Mesopotamien associations... But if teh others find it awkward, too, then I will replace him.

Is it possible to place the core areas, so they overlap? I thought this would lead to a crash...
Is there any evidence they had a culture similar to Mesopotamia? Besides they traded with each other?

On overlapping cores, I once did it accidentally in DoC with Phoenicians and Babylonians, so I don't think it leads to a crash. The only thing that didn't work was the 10% culture rule for controlling tiles within your core, only one civ seemed to benefit from it (I guess because of a switch that's left after one civ's core was found). But if both civs are intended to not coexist anyway, I don't think that will matter much.

hangman
Jan 14, 2011, 01:25 PM
Espionage based UHV sounds interesting... do you have an idea which civ would be good?

Without too much effort, it looks like the Mauryan empire is a prime candidate. There are also the shinobi, whose earliest confirmed date is in the 5th century.

Cities can already produce espionage with the Diplomacy tech ;).

Oh, okay. It doesn't show up on the tech tree though.

They wouldn't have much space too expand, SEAsia is already crowded enough as it is...

The early Thai kingdoms emerged as the Khmer empire was weakening in the 1200-1300s. If the Khmer were to collapse maybe around 1350, it would leave plenty of space for the Thai to conquer, in addition to city flips.

Black Whole
Jan 14, 2011, 04:36 PM
Do you think there are so many different names needed? I mean, it's not like RFC where there are much more different eras and forms of government.

So I suggest you rename more on a per civ basis, i.e. only when you really think it makes sense historically.

Actually, those are all I could think of... I just thought that if somebody knew another name I could include it ;).

@ Black Whole

When do you expect the new version. I can't wait for the new features.

The true answer is: I don't know. I want to add and fix some things before I release the new version and end of January doesn't seem to be possible... I hope that it i ready as soon as possible :).

That's what he said At least open that sourceforge account, please!
There is no sourceforge account ATM. I will create one when the new version is ready.

Yeah, they do exist. That's the only way i can screw around with those values
Alchemy has a religion and gold flavor, and Vatavelli has 6 at the gold flavor, maybe that's the problem. He should be more into building wonders and settles imo.
But it wouldn't be TOO bad to see Harappa founding Hinduism once in a blue moon. Okay I will change them... But honestly I have never seen Harappa founding Taoism in my test games...

Ooooh, that sounds great

I agree with Leoroth. Don't overdo it, it might looked faux in the end.
Rather simpify it, based on size of the empire and it's culture only

I won't... Especially, since it isn't very fun to do ;).

I went to Const.py and changed Qin's spawn date to 850 BC. Sorry to say but even this extra time gives Human player less than 90 turns to finish the Grand research and building program you want him to accomplish (currently it's a pure joke, all the wonders are 2 techs away and you have only 40 turns to finish them, while building and paying for 70 Warriors). The Wonder UHV fails to fail after 220 AD ( I only pulled Great Wall and Terracota). San Tzu is doable if you cancel Literature requirement.
This is all on Monarch, of course, Emperor would need a major barbarian nerfing, no civ comes even close to survive their onslaught.

On the positive side , after all the testing and editing done, Qin would require a very clever strategy and resourcefulness from the player. I only hope that will not take 4 years as with RFCE
I can move some wonders earlier... but let's see how it turns out. :) I didn't realize how short the timeframe was :lol:.

I added helpers for stability, next great person, and next great general in the top left corner of the main screen. There were a couple of icons that I had to add in for it to show up properly.

It didn't take me that long, so if you like, I can do more work on the tga files.

Ah, okay, I will include them, thanks!

While you are at it... I would need some resources to be added/replaced... But I will post tomorrow which ones if you want :).

Is there any evidence they had a culture similar to Mesopotamia? Besides they traded with each other?

On overlapping cores, I once did it accidentally in DoC with Phoenicians and Babylonians, so I don't think it leads to a crash. The only thing that didn't work was the 10% culture rule for controlling tiles within your core, only one civ seemed to benefit from it (I guess because of a switch that's left after one civ's core was found). But if both civs are intended to not coexist anyway, I don't think that will matter much.

I read something not long ago... but I can't remember what it exactly said about that... well...

Hmm... if this is possible, that changes the siituation... but I won't include them now, because that would throw me back at least three weeks... Maybe in the second beta.

Without too much effort, it looks like the Mauryan empire is a prime candidate. There are also the shinobi, whose earliest confirmed date is in the 5th century.

Oh, okay. It doesn't show up on the tech tree though.

The early Thai kingdoms emerged as the Khmer empire was weakening in the 1200-1300s. If the Khmer were to collapse maybe around 1350, it would leave plenty of space for the Thai to conquer, in addition to city flips.

1. Okay, it coould be an option when (or better if) I introduce Guptas (so I would swap some UHVs around).

2. Actually,it was Secret Societies which enabled it... I forgot about that ;).

3. Hmm... I am not a fan of killing civs for others... it it too deterministic for my taste, but I won't add any new ones before beta 2, anyway :).

Tigranes
Jan 14, 2011, 10:39 PM
Take your time, Black Whole, but keep us posted :lol:

hangman
Jan 14, 2011, 10:53 PM
While you are at it... I would need some resources to be added/replaced... But I will post tomorrow which ones if you want :).

Yeah, that sounds doable.

Actually,it was Secret Societies which enabled it... I forgot about that ;).

Okay, I see it now lol

So looking at the tech tree, secret societies is the strongest espionage tech. Monarchy, diplomacy, administration, code of laws, guilds, trade, and fortification are all prereqs for it. Techs with espionage benefits that aren't on the path are organized religion, paper, stirrups, architecture, and drama. That should be fine though, because organized religion and paper wouldn't be especially helpful. I think the current tech tree would lend itself well to emphasizing espionage, possibly with a few tweaks.

The Himeji Samurai Castle and the pleasure district are the only wonders that have espionage benefits other than spawning great spies. I might be a good idea to include two or three more world wonders with significant effects on espionage along the path to secret societies.

As for civics, state monopoly and bureaucracy are the obvious choices.

As far as UHVs, there's the tech race, the building/wonder goal, and the resource accumulation goal, but I think we could do more with it. Resource accumulation would go hand-in-hand with the passive espionage effects, so it should be possible to substitute a goal like "get 3000 EPs by 1000AD" with "make all the cities visible in three different civs by 1000AD," which also entails exploration.

For active effects, one possibility is that you could make it so that every successful act of sabotage decreases the stability of the target civ, so one UHV could be "destablize at least one civ until they collapse." Alternatively, you could set a goal for a particular active effect, like "sabotage production in five cities" or "assassinate ten units."

Now that I think about it, it would be much more historical and lend itself better to the current tech tree's general timeline to use these UHVs with the Japanese. One foreseeable problem is that since it's located on an island, it would be difficult to carry out active espionage. This could be solved by adding more (and slightly more powerful) independent and barbarian cities, which would better represent the warring states period IMO.

So if you're willing to restructure Japan's UHV, I'd suggest doing something like this:

-change the shintoism bonus to +1:food:, +1:espionage:
-add an espionage benefit to torii, or maybe replace the jinja with the dojo
-add three more indie/barbaian cities, and set Japan at war with one or both of the indie civs, and prevent city flips in the area
-UHV1: Unite Japan by a certain year
-UHV2: Assassinate 10 units by a certain year
-UHV3: Scout and acquire enough EPs to make all cities visible in three different civs by a certain year

Also, it looks like the Ming and the Delhi empires may also be candidates for less involved espionage-based UHV's due to their unique buildings.

BTW, I had two crashes trying to play as the Mauryan empire, so here's an autosave the turn before one of them.

EDIT: I tried another game as Japan. Every time I try to build a post station, it crashes...

And I did not realize how quickly you can accumulate EPs...oh mai gawd... I'll have to change my suggestion to something like this instead:

-add three more indie/barbaian cities, and set Japan at war with one or both of the indie civs, and prevent city flips in the area
-UHV1: Unite Japan by a certain year
-UHV2: Assassinate 10 units by a certain year
-UHV3: Scout and acquire enough EPs to make all cities in east asia visible by a certain year

Although, if you were to do warring states type setup, it might be somewhat more challenging and balance it out.

merijn_v1
Jan 15, 2011, 04:44 AM
EDIT: I tried another game as Japan. Every time I try to build a post station, it crashes...

You can easily fix this problem yourself.

Go to the mods folder/RFCA/assets/XML. Open the CIV4ArtDefines_Buildings.xml. Go to the section of the Ground Barracks (it has the same problem as the Post Station). Remove the " , " before the path in the button line.

Before:
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/ground_contest.dds</Button>
After:
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/ground_contest.dds</Button>

Do the same with the post station. (Remove the " , ")

civ-addicted
Jan 15, 2011, 05:01 AM
I noticed that there are some vasal-of-china dynamic civ names are missing
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_INDI04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Xitian State</English>
<French>Etat Xitian Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Xitian</German>
<Italian>Stato Xitian Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Xitian Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_CHA04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Tianzhu State</English>
<French>Etat Tianzhu Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Tianzhu</German>
<Italian>Stato Tianzhu Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Tianzhu Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_CHO04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Taimi'er State</English>
<French>Etat Taimi'er Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Taimi'er</German>
<Italian>Stato Taimi'er Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Taimi'er Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_SIND04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Xizhu State</English>
<French>Etat Xizhu Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Xizhu</German>
<Italian>Stato Xizhu Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Xizhu Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_GHA04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Jiazi State</English>
<French>Etat Jiazi Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Jiazi</German>
<Italian>Stato Jiazi Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Jiazi Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_MAJ04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Zhaowa State</English>
<French>Etat Zhaowa Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Zhaowa</German>
<Italian>Stato Zhaowa Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Zhaowa Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_DN_INDU04</Tag>
<English>Tributary Yindu State</English>
<French>Etat Yindu Tributaire</French>
<German>Tributstaat Yindu</German>
<Italian>Stato Yindu Tributario</Italian>
<Spanish>Estado Yindu Tributario</Spanish>
</TEXT>I never seen one of those civs being an actual vasal, but you never know what'll happen;); i got those names from this (http://www.chinaboard.de/chinesisch_deutsch.php) site, btw.

EDIT: added french, italian and spanisch

Tigranes
Jan 15, 2011, 02:48 PM
While playing the History of Three Kingdoms I came up with an idea (not sure if this was implemented already, but I think no): is it possible to create a hourse resource that can be moved from place to place? All the stepe empires controlled millions of hourses, sheep and cattle, many time they stole livestock from each other, so it would be cool if a unit could actually chase away livestock resource to the adjucent tile where it can rest and have the same effect as usual resource.

In HoTK you have a Nomadic Camp which can change the yield of the terrain. If that unit look exactly like old fashioned Civ4 hourses it could be a starting point in implementing this idea...

Any ideas about the possibility of this?

civ-addicted
Jan 15, 2011, 04:23 PM
You said you wanted to replace the Delhi Sultanate with the Ghorids. New date, new location. I gave it a thought and i'm not that keen anymore...
The date 1148 is fine, you get some more time to play this way. You said they will spawn in Peshavar, which is already kind of forced; I'd still let them spawn in Delhi. Remember that if they spawn in Peshevar, their capital will be Peshevar the rest of the game. And moving their capital to Delhi via python should be the last resort and just used if there is no other plausible way (you can't make Ottomans spawn in Constantinopolis). If they spawn in Delhi, Ghaznavids have a little more space to breath (you can make Peshavar flip if you like, of course). And screw those 60 years Delhi wasn't the capital. Almost 85% of the time it was:)

Baron03
Jan 16, 2011, 08:38 AM
I was playing a game as the Tang, and there arent any iron resources in southern china.

Black Whole
Jan 17, 2011, 11:00 AM
Take your time, Black Whole, but keep us posted :lol:
I'll try to update as much as possible and to mod as much as possible ;).


Yeah, that sounds doable.
Okay, then let's see...
I attached the Gamfonts from SoI and RFCE. I need the Acces resource (the double arrow), the Suplhur resource, the Coffee resource, the Slave resource. Thanks in advance!

The Himeji Samurai Castle and the pleasure district are the only wonders that have espionage benefits other than spawning great spies. I might be a good idea to include two or three more world wonders with significant effects on espionage along the path to secret societies. I am at the wonder limit, I think... More wonders would just be too much... I added the Changdeokgung wonder, maybe some ideas for this one?

As far as UHVs, there's the tech race, the building/wonder goal, and the resource accumulation goal, but I think we could do more with it. Resource accumulation would go hand-in-hand with the passive espionage effects, so it should be possible to substitute a goal like "get 3000 EPs by 1000AD" with "make all the cities visible in three different civs by 1000AD," which also entails exploration.

For active effects, one possibility is that you could make it so that every successful act of sabotage decreases the stability of the target civ, so one UHV could be "destablize at least one civ until they collapse." Alternatively, you could set a goal for a particular active effect, like "sabotage production in five cities" or "assassinate ten units."
These are interesting ideas... but I won't do anyhting in that direction before the next release since I am already loaded with work and would like to finish other things... I hope that's okay :).

And I did not realize how quickly you can accumulate EPs...oh mai gawd... I'll have to change my suggestion to something like this instead:

-add three more indie/barbaian cities, and set Japan at war with one or both of the indie civs, and prevent city flips in the area
-UHV1: Unite Japan by a certain year
-UHV2: Assassinate 10 units by a certain year
-UHV3: Scout and acquire enough EPs to make all cities in east asia visible by a certain year

Although, if you were to do warring states type setup, it might be somewhat more challenging and balance it out.
While I like the idea of warring states, I have just one problem with it: It would lead to forced city placement, since all of Japan would have preset cities... Razing them is an option but every razing decreases your stability by 3 and this can't be gained again... Other factors may increase it but let's say you want to restructure Japan, then you would raze all cities, which results in a permanent -12 or -15 stability hit...

I noticed that there are some vasal-of-china dynamic civ names are missing
[...]
I never seen one of those civs being an actual vasal, but you never know what'll happen; i got those names from this site, btw.

EDIT: added french, italian and spanisch
Thanks! I already added them.

While playing the History of Three Kingdoms I came up with an idea (not sure if this was implemented already, but I think no): is it possible to create a hourse resource that can be moved from place to place? All the stepe empires controlled millions of hourses, sheep and cattle, many time they stole livestock from each other, so it would be cool if a unit could actually chase away livestock resource to the adjucent tile where it can rest and have the same effect as usual resource.

In HoTK you have a Nomadic Camp which can change the yield of the terrain. If that unit look exactly like old fashioned Civ4 hourses it could be a starting point in implementing this idea...

Any ideas about the possibility of this?
Hmm... I don't think that this would be a good addition. It would bork up my resource placement and make problems when dynamic resources spawn... It is micromanagement... and does the AI understand this feature? This could be the most important fact, because I don't want to give the AI disadvantages because it is too stupid... I know I am grizzling a lot but in the end I am the one coding it and AI isn't really something I am capable of...

You said you wanted to replace the Delhi Sultanate with the Ghorids. New date, new location. I gave it a thought and i'm not that keen anymore...
The date 1148 is fine, you get some more time to play this way. You said they will spawn in Peshavar, which is already kind of forced; I'd still let them spawn in Delhi. Remember that if they spawn in Peshevar, their capital will be Peshevar the rest of the game. And moving their capital to Delhi via python should be the last resort and just used if there is no other plausible way (you can't make Ottomans spawn in Constantinopolis). If they spawn in Delhi, Ghaznavids have a little more space to breath (you can make Peshavar flip if you like, of course). And screw those 60 years Delhi wasn't the capital. Almost 85% of the time it was
Yeah, but actually I wanted to move capitals through python much more... Many civs don't start at their capital (Qin, Han, Tang all should start in Xian...) but they began somewhere else and I wanted to reflect that... And as for the Ghorid, they should start at war with Ghaznavids and maybe capture something... Otherwise they would never do that... I think that python isn't as bad as you think ;).

I was playing a game as the Tang, and there arent any iron resources in southern china. Because according to my sources, there was no important iron deposit... If you know more than just post it :).

veBear
Jan 17, 2011, 12:57 PM
I will soon retire from civ and this is my last contribution to RFCA:

<LeaderHeadInfo>
<Type>LEADER_PILUOGE</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_LEADER_PILUOGE</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_LEADER_PILUOGE_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_LEADER_PILUOGE</ArtDefineTag>
<iWonderConstructRand>10</iWonderConstructRand>
<iBaseAttitude>1</iBaseAttitude>
<iBasePeaceWeight>3</iBasePeaceWeight>
<iPeaceWeightRand>3</iPeaceWeightRand>
<iWarmongerRespect>1</iWarmongerRespect>
<iEspionageWeight>120</iEspionageWeight>
<iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold>8</iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold>
<iNoTechTradeThreshold>10</iNoTechTradeThreshold>
<iTechTradeKnownPercent>70</iTechTradeKnownPercent>
<iMaxGoldTradePercent>10</iMaxGoldTradePercent>
<iMaxGoldPerTurnTradePercent>10</iMaxGoldPerTurnTradePercent>
<iMaxWarRand>300</iMaxWarRand>
<iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>90</iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>40</iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio>
<iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>1</iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent>
<iLimitedWarRand>85</iLimitedWarRand>
<iLimitedWarPowerRatio>95</iLimitedWarPowerRatio>
<iDogpileWarRand>40</iDogpileWarRand>
<iMakePeaceRand>50</iMakePeaceRand>
<iDeclareWarTradeRand>40</iDeclareWarTradeRand>
<iDemandRebukedSneakProb>40</iDemandRebukedSneakProb>
<iDemandRebukedWarProb>10</iDemandRebukedWarProb>
<iRazeCityProb>5</iRazeCityProb>
<iBuildUnitProb>30</iBuildUnitProb>
<iBaseAttackOddsChange>0</iBaseAttackOddsChange>
<iAttackOddsChangeRand>8</iAttackOddsChangeRand>
<iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange>-2</iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange>
<iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange>0</iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange>
<iCloseBordersAttitudeChange>-2</iCloseBordersAttitudeChange>
<iLostWarAttitudeChange>-1</iLostWarAttitudeChange>
<iAtWarAttitudeDivisor>-5</iAtWarAttitudeDivisor>
<iAtWarAttitudeChangeLimit>5</iAtWarAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iAtPeaceAttitudeDivisor>60</iAtPeaceAttitudeDivisor>
<iAtPeaceAttitudeChangeLimit>1</iAtPeaceAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iSameReligionAttitudeChange>1</iSameReligionAttitudeChange>
<iSameReligionAttitudeDivisor>10</iSameReligionAttitudeDivisor>
<iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit>3</iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iDifferentReligionAttitudeChange>-2</iDifferentReligionAttitudeChange>
<iDifferentReligionAttitudeDivisor>-5</iDifferentReligionAttitudeDivisor>
<iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit>-2</iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iBonusTradeAttitudeDivisor>50</iBonusTradeAttitudeDivisor>
<iBonusTradeAttitudeChangeLimit>2</iBonusTradeAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iOpenBordersAttitudeDivisor>25</iOpenBordersAttitudeDivisor>
<iOpenBordersAttitudeChangeLimit>2</iOpenBordersAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iDefensivePactAttitudeDivisor>12</iDefensivePactAttitudeDivisor>
<iDefensivePactAttitudeChangeLimit>2</iDefensivePactAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iShareWarAttitudeChange>1</iShareWarAttitudeChange>
<iShareWarAttitudeDivisor>8</iShareWarAttitudeDivisor>
<iShareWarAttitudeChangeLimit>2</iShareWarAttitudeChangeLimit>
<iFavoriteCivicAttitudeChange>1</iFavoriteCivicAttitudeChange>
<iFavoriteCivicAttitudeDivisor>10</iFavoriteCivicAttitudeDivisor>
<iFavoriteCivicAttitudeChangeLimit>3</iFavoriteCivicAttitudeChangeLimit>
<DemandTributeAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</DemandTributeAttitudeThreshold>
<NoGiveHelpAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</NoGiveHelpAttitudeThreshold>
<TechRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_FURIOUS</TechRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_FURIOUS</HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_FURIOUS</HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<MapRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</MapRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<DeclareWarRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</DeclareWarRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<DeclareWarThemRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_PLEASED</DeclareWarThemRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<StopTradingRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</StopTradingRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<StopTradingThemRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</StopTradingThemRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<AdoptCivicRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</AdoptCivicRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<ConvertReligionRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_PLEASED</ConvertReligionRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</OpenBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<DefensivePactRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_PLEASED</DefensivePactRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<PermanentAllianceRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_PLEASED</PermanentAllianceRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
<iVassalPowerModifier>20</iVassalPowerModifier>
<iFreedomAppreciation>10</iFreedomAppreciation>
<FavoriteCivic>CIVIC_TEMPLE_ECONOMY</FavoriteCivic>
<FavoriteReligion>RELIGION_BUDDHISM</FavoriteReligion>
<Traits>
</Traits>
<Flavors>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_SCIENCE</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>4</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_MILITARY</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>3</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>1</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
</Flavors>
<ContactRands>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_RELIGION_PRESSURE</ContactType>
<iContactRand>100</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_CIVIC_PRESSURE</ContactType>
<iContactRand>250</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_JOIN_WAR</ContactType>
<iContactRand>20</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_STOP_TRADING</ContactType>
<iContactRand>50</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_GIVE_HELP</ContactType>
<iContactRand>50</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_ASK_FOR_HELP</ContactType>
<iContactRand>50</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_DEMAND_TRIBUTE</ContactType>
<iContactRand>500</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_OPEN_BORDERS</ContactType>
<iContactRand>20</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_DEFENSIVE_PACT</ContactType>
<iContactRand>80</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_PERMANENT_ALLIANCE</ContactType>
<iContactRand>80</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_PEACE_TREATY</ContactType>
<iContactRand>20</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_TECH</ContactType>
<iContactRand>1</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_BONUS</ContactType>
<iContactRand>1</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
<ContactRand>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_MAP</ContactType>
<iContactRand>20</iContactRand>
</ContactRand>
</ContactRands>
<ContactDelays>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_RELIGION_PRESSURE</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_CIVIC_PRESSURE</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_JOIN_WAR</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_STOP_TRADING</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_GIVE_HELP</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_ASK_FOR_HELP</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_DEMAND_TRIBUTE</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_OPEN_BORDERS</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_DEFENSIVE_PACT</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_PERMANENT_ALLIANCE</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_PEACE_TREATY</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>10</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_TECH</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>30</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_BONUS</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>20</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
<ContactDelay>
<ContactType>CONTACT_TRADE_MAP</ContactType>
<iContactDelay>50</iContactDelay>
</ContactDelay>
</ContactDelays>
<MemoryDecays>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_GIVE_HELP</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>200</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_REFUSED_HELP</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPT_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_REJECTED_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>150</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_RELIGION</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_RELIGION</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_CIVIC</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_CIVIC</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_JOIN_WAR</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>150</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_JOIN_WAR</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_STOP_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_STOP_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_STOPPED_TRADING_RECENT</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>30</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_MADE_DEMAND_RECENT</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>20</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_CANCELLED_OPEN_BORDERS</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>10</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_TRADED_TECH_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>100</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_RECEIVED_TECH_FROM_ANY</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>20</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_VOTED_AGAINST_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>10</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_VOTED_FOR_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>10</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_EVENT_GOOD_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
<MemoryDecay>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_EVENT_BAD_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryRand>50</iMemoryRand>
</MemoryDecay>
</MemoryDecays>
<MemoryAttitudePercents>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DECLARED_WAR</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-300</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DECLARED_WAR_ON_FRIEND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_HIRED_WAR_ALLY</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-200</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_NUKED_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-200</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_NUKED_FRIEND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_RAZED_CITY</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-250</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_RAZED_HOLY_CITY</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-200</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_SPY_CAUGHT</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_GIVE_HELP</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_REFUSED_HELP</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPT_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_REJECTED_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_RELIGION</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_RELIGION</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_CIVIC</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_CIVIC</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_JOIN_WAR</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_ACCEPTED_STOP_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>50</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_DENIED_STOP_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_STOPPED_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_HIRED_TRADE_EMBARGO</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_MADE_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_TRADED_TECH_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>10</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_STOPPED_TRADING</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_HIRED_TRADE_EMBARGO</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_MADE_DEMAND</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_TRADED_TECH_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>5</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_VOTED_AGAINST_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-200</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_VOTED_FOR_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>200</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_EVENT_GOOD_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_EVENT_BAD_TO_US</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>-100</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryAttitudePercent>
<MemoryType>MEMORY_LIBERATED_CITIES</MemoryType>
<iMemoryAttitudePercent>150</iMemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercent>
</MemoryAttitudePercents>
<NoWarAttitudeProbs>
<NoWarAttitudeProb>
<AttitudeType>ATTITUDE_ANNOYED</AttitudeType>
<iNoWarProb>10</iNoWarProb>
</NoWarAttitudeProb>
<NoWarAttitudeProb>
<AttitudeType>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</AttitudeType>
<iNoWarProb>50</iNoWarProb>
</NoWarAttitudeProb>
<NoWarAttitudeProb>
<AttitudeType>ATTITUDE_PLEASED</AttitudeType>
<iNoWarProb>90</iNoWarProb>
</NoWarAttitudeProb>
<NoWarAttitudeProb>
<AttitudeType>ATTITUDE_FRIENDLY</AttitudeType>
<iNoWarProb>100</iNoWarProb>
</NoWarAttitudeProb>
</NoWarAttitudeProbs>
<UnitAIWeightModifiers>
<UnitAIWeightModifier>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE</UnitAIType>
<iWeightModifier>50</iWeightModifier>
</UnitAIWeightModifier>
<UnitAIWeightModifier>
<UnitAIType>UNITAI_COUNTER</UnitAIType>
<iWeightModifier>50</iWeightModifier>
</UnitAIWeightModifier>
</UnitAIWeightModifiers>
<ImprovementWeightModifiers/>
<DiplomacyIntroMusicPeace>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_ANCIENT</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_FIRST_EMPIRES</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_BUDDHISM</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_CONQUEST</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_MODERN</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_FUTURE</EraType>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
</DiplomacyIntroMusicPeace>
<DiplomacyMusicPeace>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_ANCIENT</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_MIDDLE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_FIRST_EMPIRES</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_MIDDLE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_BUDDHISM</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_MIDDLE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_CONQUEST</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_LATE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_MODERN</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_LATE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<DiploMusicPeaceEra>
<EraType>ERA_FUTURE</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_PILUOGE_LATE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicPeaceEra>
</DiplomacyMusicPeace>
<DiplomacyIntroMusicWar>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_ANCIENT</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_FIRST_EMPIRES</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_BUDDHISM</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_CONQUEST</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_MODERN</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_FUTURE</EraType>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
</DiplomacyIntroMusicWar>
<DiplomacyMusicWar>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_ANCIENT</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_EARLY</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_FIRST_EMPIRES</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_EARLY</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_BUDDHISM</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_MIDDLE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_CONQUEST</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_MIDDLE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_MODERN</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_LATE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
<DiploMusicWarEra>
<EraType>ERA_FUTURE</EraType>
<DiploScriptId>AS2D_DIPLO_WARDRUMS_LATE</DiploScriptId>
</DiploMusicWarEra>
</DiplomacyMusicWar>
</LeaderHeadInfo>
Hope you find use for it :)

Black Whole
Jan 17, 2011, 02:12 PM
I will soon retire from civ and this is my last contribution to RFCA:
[...]
Hope you find use for it :)

You can be sure of that. Thanks a lot!!!
Awwww.... That are really sad news :(. But I am sure, that you have your reasons, so I wish the very best on your way :). Thanks for your help improving this mod!

civ-addicted
Jan 17, 2011, 04:13 PM
Yeah, but actually I wanted to move capitals through python much more... Many civs don't start at their capital (Qin, Han, Tang all should start in Xian...) but they began somewhere else and I wanted to reflect that... And as for the Ghorid, they should start at war with Ghaznavids and maybe capture something... Otherwise they would never do that... I think that python isn't as bad as you think ;).:undecide:I will soon retire from civ and this is my last contribution to RFCA::salute: Well, that's the sadest thing i heard here in a while... Take care!

hangman
Jan 17, 2011, 11:05 PM
Okay, then let's see...
I attached the Gamfonts from SoI and RFCE. I need the Acces resource (the double arrow), the Suplhur resource, the Coffee resource, the Slave resource. Thanks in advance!

No problem;) I'll probably get to it tomorrow.

I am at the wonder limit, I think... More wonders would just be too much... I added the Changdeokgung wonder, maybe some ideas for this one?

Actually, with the test game I did, I was able to accumulate EPs so quickly that espionage UHVs are probably workable as is.


These are interesting ideas... but I won't do anyhting in that direction before the next release since I am already loaded with work and would like to finish other things... I hope that's okay :).

Yeah, that's no problem. I'm interested in seeing the new features :)

While I like the idea of warring states, I have just one problem with it: It would lead to forced city placement, since all of Japan would have preset cities... Razing them is an option but every razing decreases your stability by 3 and this can't be gained again... Other factors may increase it but let's say you want to restructure Japan, then you would raze all cities, which results in a permanent -12 or -15 stability hit...

Yeah, I'm not a fan of forced city placement either...

I tried balancing out a test game with warring states, and I think it actually worked fairly well, considering. It could use some fine-tuning with the balancing, but I think works for the most part. Check the savegame.

merijn_v1
Jan 18, 2011, 12:19 PM
I will soon retire from civ and this is my last contribution to RFCA:

That's sad news. :( Anyway, take care...

veBear
Jan 18, 2011, 01:36 PM
Something to help further development in this mod... (a kind-of contribution)
Here is the LH personality guide (how to create) that The Almighty dF made me... I hope you find use for it as I did ;)
The major variables to be edited, in order of importance:

Flavors (Make sure not to go past 10 combined, rank the flavors in terms of preference. Military, Growth, Espionage, REligion, Science, Culture, Gold, Production.)

iWonderConstructRand (Liklihood of building wonders, 0 being unlikely to get -any- wonders and 50 being a wondermonger. Never set below a 10, but 50's fine.)

iBuildUnitProb (Determines how many units the leader will build between 15-40. 15 being not many, and 40 being gigantic stacks of doom.)

iMaxWarRand (Liklihood to go for a full on war. Meaning the goal is to destroy the other civ. 50 is Cobra Commander, 400 is Gandhi. I'd personally never suggest hitting either extreme. Even history's greatest warmongers like the Mongols and Huns typically went for more of a limited war style of conquest, so set that high instead while setting Maxwar to above-average.)

iMaxWarNearbyPowerRatio (Determines how weak a civ has to be for the leader in question to decide they're fit for a full-on 'whipe them out' war. 80 means the leader only goes for the really weak civs, and 130 means they'll go for leaders at the same power level as themselves. This is explicitly for the NEARBY civs.)

iMaxWarDistantPowerRatio (Same as the above, except on a scale of 30-100. 30 being the enemy has to be weak, and 100 being on the same power level as the leader in question. This is for all civs that aren't nearby.)

iMaxWarMinAdjacentLandPercent (This sets how far a civ can be for full on war. 0-4, representing adjacent tiles (0 meaning the two empires don't have to be touching.)

iLimitedWarRand (Like iMaxWarRand, but for the more conventional limited war. 40 being very likely, 200 being not a chance.)

iLimitedWarPowerRatio (Determines how weak a civ has to be for the leader to go for a limited war. 80 being only weak civs, 130 being as powerful as the leader themselves.)

iMakePeaceRand (On a scale of 10-120 how likely a civ is to negotiate for peace. 10 being extremely, 120 being not.)

iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit (One of the zealot variables, determines the impact of sharing a state religion. 1 means they're apathetic, 7 means they're a full on zealot.)

iDifferentReligionAttitudeChange (Another zealot variable, determines the the boost for/against having the same state religion. -2 if the leader really cares about religion, up to 0 if they don't.)

iBasePeaceWeight (One of the major warmonger stats on a scale of 1-10, 0 being Golden Horde and 10 being Gandhi.)

iEspionageWeight (On a scale of preferably 80 to 150, 80 being 'eh' towards espionage and 150 being diehard KGB loving types.)

iBaseAttitude (Basically the dispostition the leader's at from the very beginning. -1's for the jerk leaders, 2 for the big diplomacy guys.)

UnitAIWeightModifiers (The unit style preference each leader has. Attack, Attack City, Collateral, City Counter, Reserve, City Defense, City Explore, Counter, Attack Sea, Worker, Pillage, Reserve Sea, all I remember.)

iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold (This I find isn't -too- major, since I never notice -too- much of a difference beyond the extremes. 12 being Tokugawa-esque, 5 being extremely diplomatic. I'd honestly say -never- hit 12. ever. 10's fine as a max.)

iTechTradeKnownPercent (Rates how likely they are to share techs, 100 being isolationists and 0 being "Free techs for everyone!")

iShareWarAttitudeChangeLimit (How much a civ trusts his allies when in war with a common enemy on a scale from 2-6, with 2 being no-trust)

iFavoriteCivicAttitudeChangeLimit (How much a civ cares that you're using the same civics on a scale between 1-6, with 1 being they don't care and 6 being a nice boost.)

iDemandRebukedSneakProb (The odds of the leader to prepare to declare war on another civ after their request is refused. 0 being unlikley, 100 being extremely likely.)

iDemandRebukedWarProb (Same as above, but -instantly- declare war instead of prepare. 0-50, 0 being unlikely and 50 being extremely likely.)

iWarmongerRespect (This helps the war-loving leaders (2) group together against people like Gandhi and Hatshepsut (0).)

iRazeCityProb (On a scale of 0-75, how likely a leader is to burn down a city instead of taking it. 0 being unlikely, 75 being extremely likely. I -strongly- recommend never going above 20 except in a few rare cases like maybe Atilla. Most leaders should be at 5 or under, with notorious warmongers between 10-15.)

iCloseBordersAttitudeChange (Determines how much the leader cares about how close another civ is on a scale between -4 to -2. -4 really -hates- close borders, -2 doesn't mind as much.)

iDogpileWarRand (On a scale of 20-100 how likely a civ is to declare war on a civ just because everyone else is. 20 being extremely, 100 being not.)

ImprovementWeightModifiers (Here's where you can set an improvement preference as well.)

iWorseRankDifferenceAttitudeChange (Determines how much a leader cares if you're weaker than them. -3 to 1, with -3 being they don't like the weaker, and 1 being they don't care.)

iBetterRankDifferenceAttitudeChange (Similar to the above, but replace weaker with stronger. -1 means they don't care, 4 means they're really friendly towards the stronger civ.)

iBaseAttackOddsChange (This is normally at 0, but it's fun to set some leaders to 6. Basically this makes them see the wrong odds in combat, making them more likely to attack at times when they shouldn't.)

iAttackOddsChangeRand (Same, except most are at 8, except for barbarians which I think are at 15. Set it between 8 and 15 to skew their perception of the battlefield or make them more aggressive.)

iVassalPowerModifier (Determines on a scale of -20 to 50 how hard it is to vassalize someone, with 50 being impossible and -20 being relatively easy.)

hangman
Jan 18, 2011, 06:21 PM
These really shouldn't work, but for some reason they do, so I'm not complaining. ;)

civ-addicted
Jan 19, 2011, 05:14 AM
A changlog already?
Changelog for next release:

Version 1.0 (Yes, beta ;))Whatwhatwhat?:eek:
16. Moved starting dates: Qin to 849 BC / Khmer to 802 AD / Chola to 270 BC / Jurchen o 1000 AD / Ghorids to 1148 AD.Fair enough. Would you please ensure that the civs are in chronical order in the civ-choosing screen at the beginning?14. Dynamic names: Added a name if a civ holds the Mandate of Heaven. (not for everone, since I have no idea how to name all those civs...)Need some help?;)
I did a list for all civs (see attachment), with explanation. This simply shows that there is a lot of crap in my mind:lol:

veBear
Jan 19, 2011, 06:30 AM
Just an idea. I know you might not include flying Soviet tanks, but what about flying Harappan tanks, so if they survive long enough (almost the whole game, which will probably not happen) they will be superior :evil:

Black Whole
Jan 21, 2011, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I'm not a fan of forced city placement either...

I tried balancing out a test game with warring states, and I think it actually worked fairly well, considering. It could use some fine-tuning with the balancing, but I think works for the most part. Check the savegame.

Thanks! I will take a look how it turns out:).

Something to help further development in this mod... (a kind-of contribution)
Here is the LH personality guide (how to create) that The Almighty dF made me... I hope you find use for it as I did
Thanks a lot! I always wondered how those alues are defined... I will use it definitely!

[QUTE=hangman;10129717]These really shouldn't work, but for some reason they do, so I'm not complaining. [/QUOTE]
Really? I saw that you didn't insert the cyan pixel at the right edge of each frame... Are those resources shown correctly? (I can't test it because my version isn't working ATM ;).)

@civ-addicted:
I decided to post it so you can see what has been fixed/ what has been added and also that you can follow the development.

They show up in the correct order, so don't worry ;).

Thanks for the names, I will use them ;). You were pretty creative with those!

Just an idea. I know you might not include flying Soviet tanks, but what about flying Harappan tanks, so if they survive long enough (almost the whole game, which will probably not happen) they will be superior
I might even consoder this, as a fun event :D.

civ-addicted
Jan 22, 2011, 09:59 AM
Thanks for your kind words!

I played a couple of games as Delhi, the future Ghorids. It's not impossible to conquer all of India, spreading Islam to 30 percent...i havn't succeded yet, but over all, they are almost fine. I know that it was me proposing the UP (kinda), but it should be changed a little. First, holy cities shouldn't be removed (it's even stranger after building the holy shrine, because then they are displayed as holy cities again:confused:). Second, i've seen now that removing all religions is a little extreme. Removing a single religion is enough, i thought of something like this:First, check for chinese religions (just in case you invade China). If one is present, remove it (predominantly Taoism, f.e.). If not, check for Buddhism and remove it, and if that isn't present, check for Hinduism and remove it.
There are historical reasons for that; India, controlled by Delhi (Ghorids), would be 100% muslim. Since they really controlled almost all of it, that wouldn't be all to realistic, because there are still Hindus around there. And why should Buddhism be removed? Well, Sindh and Bengal, nowadays predominantly muslim, were the last areas in India were Buddhism was dominant before. So for some reasons, the indian buddhists were more eager to become muslims;)...
The money you get, can depend on the population and wonders, which means how well the respective religion was present.But i think there isn't really a point in playtesting them anymore until the Beta-version.

After that, i played the Tocharians again. 3 Games, and all i got was 6 more turns to complete the :):):):)ing Bamiyan Buddhas.
Then i reduced the costs of the Caravan Station to 50 :hammers:, and in the second game after that I WON! I'm so proud of myself. Though i had to WB myself some Buddhism:mischief:
Your production sucks, and only if it's cheap enough you come to play it (my best city had 9:hammers:/turn). The UHVs are still hard (the Tocharians didn't so well, so they should be hard to win) and go hand-in-hand with their UB, they are unique, and therefore this civ is pretty fun to play.
You just have to increase the Buddhism-spread value dramatically (so you will pretty sure end up having it), and push down the other values. I got Taoism, Confucianism and even Hinduism once, but never any Buddhism.
After that, i'd declare the Tocharians ready for Beta:D

hangman
Jan 22, 2011, 11:36 AM
Really? I saw that you didn't insert the cyan pixel at the right edge of each frame... Are those resources shown correctly? (I can't test it because my version isn't working ATM ;).)

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Believe it or not, they do show up properly for me.

civ-addicted
Jan 23, 2011, 07:07 AM
Before we enter Beta stage, we need to discuss the start rating. I guess they didn't have been changed since the initial version (at least i don't remember;)). The last civs i played were Ghaznavids, Khmer, Delhi (Ghorids), Tocharians and Göktürks. This is what i think:Ghaznavids:
Trade: 2 stars. I concentrated on spaming culture and didn't really come to build units for exploring. Therefore, you just come to trade with your neighbors.
Production: 3 stars. There isn't something special to say.
Culture: 5 stars. There isn't really a civ with more potential (with the new UP at least)
Growth: 4 stars. You come to control Punjab, pretty sure one of best area to grow huge cities.
Starting situation: 4 stars. a lot of barb cities around you to conquer and a lot of luxury resource around.

Khmer:
Trade: 3 stars. Nothing special here.
Production: 2 stars. You're more up to concentrate on :food: than on :hammers:
Culture: 2 stars. You need some time to get religions, but later on you're fine.
Growth: 5 stars. The best civ for that around.
Starting situation: 3 stars. Nothing special here

Ghorids:
Trade: 2 stars. Everyone around hates you, cause you have to declare war on them and/or have a different religion. But you have a lot of ressources in India.
Production: 4 stars. They come pretty late, so most of the tiles have an improvement.
Culture: 4 stars. You get your state religion for free, control up to 3 Holy Shrines, but remove relgions via conquest.
Growth: 5 stars. India offers a great potential, and you'll control most of it:D
Starting situation: 5 stars. A huge unit stack, great cities to conquer. They deserve it.

Tocharians:
Trade: 2 stars. It takes a lot of time until you can trade with anyone, but the UP can help.
Production: 1 star. The worst i've ever seen.
Culture: 1 star. Bad, unless you'd get Buddhism;)
Growth: 1 star. Flood plains keeps you from growing even mediocre cities.
Starting situation: 2 stars. Not too well, i guess.

Göktürks:
Trade: 2 stars. At least some civs are around.
Production: 2 stars. Desert, duh.
Culture: 1 stars. Either you build units at the start, or concentrate on production late.
Growth: 3 stars. You don't have all too huge cities, but will end up with a big empire.
Starting situation: 3 stars. Some indies to conquer, but after all not too good.

2phunkey4u
Jan 27, 2011, 07:45 AM
Hi there, the idea of taking this modmod into beta has shifted my interest away from the awesome SoI modmod (which is mostly finished now) back to RFCA. I started testing it quite a while ago, but quit on it early again because it constantly crashed on my computer. But I am trying it again bc I love the idea of RFC modmods in an Asian scenario so much. Here's my ideas to improve things (I didn't read through all of the previous comments at all so I dunno whether some issues are already known or not):
the game keeps frequently crashing on me. It is currently the only RFC modmod to do so. And I am using the latest versions of BtS and RFC)
old civs (Harappa, Zhou, Mauryans) stay in the game for too long and become too powerful. AI Harappa should be scripted to collapse or ensured to succumb to (macedon?) invasions, same with the Zhou (auto-collapse or start at war and auto-lose to Qin)
some civs which must expand quickly have trouble doing so bc there are rarely any flips at all (even though some parts of the map are really crowded) or they lack siege weapons among their starting units.
as Ghaznavids I was really hesitant to found my capital in the first place bc the location was squeezed in by three other cities already
Islam should not be discovered by any civ and have a holy city. Islam was brought into the Far East, the holy city being Mecca. No city on the RFCA map comes close to deserving such a status for Islam.
I discovered a bug when I squatted on Birma as Chola. I found Pagan 1W. The city flipped on their spawn, but the Birmese then started with no techs and no units except for one lonely worker.
Maurya UHV1 did not work for me - I spread Buddhism in three Harappan cities and did'nt get it.
Chalyuka UHV1 did not work, either. In 950 AD I had 4 GAs from conquest, 3 GAs born and settled and another 3 assigned - and still didn't get it. Minor religions did not spread to me at all in that game, either.
The AI founds cities in sub-optimal places making great historical cities like Thatta/Karachi, Multan, Lahore, Shanghai really missed.
some UHV texts are unclear: How can you control a sea as Korea? Where exactly is southern China according to the Vietnamese UHV?
some civ units don't speak their proper languages (I recognized Ethiopian at one point).

By no means I want to say the modmod is bad - quite the contrary: it's great, but maybe not ready yet for beta stage.

veBear
Jan 27, 2011, 10:36 AM
AFAIK, all the problems you are talking about is fixed now, but here are some advice:
- The Yellow Sea? Check the name in wiki. It can be compared to 'Stop all other civs from founding cities that connect to the Yellow Sea'
- Southern China is everything south of that river in south there. Are you sure you have the latest version btw?

Black Whole
Feb 07, 2011, 10:03 AM
Sorry for my absence, guys, but I am quite busy ATM. Don't think that the progress stops, it is just very slow ;). While I am modding, I often thought if a province system wouldn't increase the value of the mod. Here are my pros and cons. The system isn't really thought to the end, since I don't want to put too much effort into it if nobody likes it.

Pros:
- Easier definition of goals.
- Easier definition of core, spawn, outer and foreign provinces/areas.
- Easier spawning of barbs. (All those require weird rectangles, which sometimes or mostly are ugly.
- Respawn mechanics are easier.
- Religions/Minor Religions spread to certain provinces.
(- Province capitals)
- Defintion of maintenance through number of owned provinces (rich provinces are smaller, empty are bigger, cities in one province don't vary too much in costs.)

Cons:
- Additional time for coding and implementing.
- New balancing required.
- Some provinces are unhistorical.

Well that's all i can think of. I already made a small map, so you can better imagine how it would look like.

Opera
Feb 07, 2011, 10:10 AM
Well, really the only downside is to implement provinces. You've gotta see if you're up to the task or not :)

merijn_v1
Feb 07, 2011, 10:24 AM
First release the newest version, so we can play it! Then you can work on it (if you want it ofcourse) while we are playtesting.

civ-addicted
Feb 07, 2011, 10:34 AM
Finally you're back. I really started to worry:cry:

Basically, it's a fine idea. Though i start to worry that all modmods will end up in a pabulum.
What is both easier to implement and a not-all-too-radical change: Provinces just for orientation. Only. The values in the dll, python etc. will stay the same. It's just when you're playing Majapahit, you hover over a tile and know: this is Sumatra, so i have to have a city there. This tile over there is part of Siam, so i shouldn't settle there.
I don't want RFC be too far away from CIV, and RFCA shouldn't be too far away from RFC. I'd like to feel at home when i play.
My two cents.

I thought it would be awesome to have the beta out at RFCA's birthday, but it's a bit too late, i guess.

Black Whole
Feb 07, 2011, 01:51 PM
I guess, that the provinces won't be included... I want to finish the version first, so you can test it out... But I could take some time. I don't have lectures in February and March, so progress should be much faster :). I really need that time because the version is so buggy and imbalanced, you wouldn't believe ;).
If provinces will be added then also gameplaywise because I already added additional tile info, which shows which tiles are core/stabel/unstabel for you.

If the version is done, I will upload it to svn and then try to use an installer... Updates for changelog should be more frequent now ;).

civ-addicted
Feb 08, 2011, 09:05 AM
A few weeks ago i wrote this code for Tang's first UHV, that is a bit shorter and actually works:mischief: if (iGameTurn == i960AD):
bBuddhism = TRUE
for x in range(tChina1TL[0], tChina1BR[0]):
for y in range(tChina1TL[1], tChina1BR[1]):
currentPlot = gc.getMap().plot(x,y)
if (currentPlot != None):
if (currentPlot.isCity()):
currentCity = currentPlot.getPlotCity()
if (not currentCity.isHasReligion(con.iBuddhism)):
bBuddhism = False
break

for x in range(tChina2TL[0], tChina2BR[0]):
for y in range(tChina2TL[1], tChina2BR[1]):
currentPlot = gc.getMap().plot(x,y)
if (currentPlot != None):
if (currentPlot.isCity()):
currentCity = currentPlot.getPlotCity()
if (not currentCity.isHasReligion(con.iBuddhism)):
bBuddhism = False
break

for x in range(tChina3TL[0], tChina3BR[0]):
for y in range(tChina3TL[1], tChina3BR[1]):
currentPlot = gc.getMap().plot(x,y)
if (currentPlot != None):
if (currentPlot.isCity()):
currentCity = currentPlot.getPlotCity()
if (not currentCity.isHasReligion(con.iBuddhism)):
bBuddhism = False
break

for x in range(tChina4TL[0], tChina4BR[0]):
for y in range(tChina4TL[1], tChina4BR[1]):
currentPlot = gc.getMap().plot(x,y)
if (currentPlot != None):
if (currentPlot.isCity()):
currentCity = currentPlot.getPlotCity()
if (not currentCity.isHasReligion(con.iBuddhism)):
bBuddhism = False
break

for x in range(tChina5TL[0], tChina5BR[0]):
for y in range(tChina5TL[1], tChina5BR[1]):
currentPlot = gc.getMap().plot(x,y)
if (currentPlot != None):
if (currentPlot.isCity()):
currentCity = currentPlot.getPlotCity()
if (not currentCity.isHasReligion(con.iBuddhism)):
bBuddhism = False
break


if (bBuddhism):
self.setGoal(iTang, 0, 1)
else:
self.setGoal(iTang, 0, 0)Now there is only one boolean that will be FALSE if one city doesn't have Buddhism. And it doesn't check if the plot is water; i havn't seen a city yet that's out in the ocean:p (I hope this doesn't cause a crash) You might want to add another check before you enter another for-block: if the boolean is already False, there is no need to check anymore. Might save a little time if you don't play Tang.
If you look at this map (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Tang_Dynasty_circa_700_CE.pn g&filetimestamp=20080827114707), you see that the Tang had great ambitions to control the Silk Road; but in the game you can win without controlling a single tile of desert...it should be in nevertheless. Instead of the last one to unify china, i suggest to control a continious empire from Hangzhou to Yarkand (or even Bukhara) in 1200. The code might be a problem, but one of us will surely find a solution.
Oh, and Xian should be Chang'an (or Changan, the ' can cause problems in the cityname manager) unless Ming captures it, and the current Tang capital "Suzhou" should be Linan (Lin'an) respectivly Hangzhou if conquered by Ming. Ming should have the modern names, the others can go with the classic ones.

hangman
Feb 10, 2011, 10:06 PM
Sorry for my absence, guys, but I am quite busy ATM. Don't think that the progress stops, it is just very slow ;). While I am modding, I often thought if a province system wouldn't increase the value of the mod. Here are my pros and cons. The system isn't really thought to the end, since I don't want to put too much effort into it if nobody likes it.

Pros:
- Easier definition of goals.
- Easier definition of core, spawn, outer and foreign provinces/areas.
- Easier spawning of barbs. (All those require weird rectangles, which sometimes or mostly are ugly.
- Respawn mechanics are easier.
- Religions/Minor Religions spread to certain provinces.
(- Province capitals)
- Defintion of maintenance through number of owned provinces (rich provinces are smaller, empty are bigger, cities in one province don't vary too much in costs.)

Cons:
- Additional time for coding and implementing.
- New balancing required.
- Some provinces are unhistorical.

Well that's all i can think of. I already made a small map, so you can better imagine how it would look like.

So you are alive!

Like Opera said, really the only downside is implementing it. I don't imagine the recoding would be fun, but by all means, go for it! I was actually waiting to see if anyone would suggest it. I guess you could do it on a superficial level like civ-addicted suggested if it's too much of a time investment, but the python might not be as flexible as SoI, since you wouldn't be able to query for the territory value for UHVs, stability, etc.

Adding tile info for stability would also be a great idea, I'm all for it.

As for the impact on espionage-based UHVs, I think a province system would definitely be a plus. For one, it would be simpler to define which areas need to be visible for a visibility goal. It may also help with historicity, if the provinces are defined appropriately. I don't see any problems with the current map, but of course, we'd have to test play it.

civ-addicted
Feb 11, 2011, 04:45 AM
Hi there, the idea of taking this modmod into beta has shifted my interest away from the awesome SoI modmod (which is mostly finished now) back to RFCA. I started testing it quite a while ago, but quit on it early again because it constantly crashed on my computer. But I am trying it again bc I love the idea of RFC modmods in an Asian scenario so much. Here's my ideas to improve things (I didn't read through all of the previous comments at all so I dunno whether some issues are already known or not):
the game keeps frequently crashing on me. It is currently the only RFC modmod to do so. And I am using the latest versions of BtS and RFC)
old civs (Harappa, Zhou, Mauryans) stay in the game for too long and become too powerful. AI Harappa should be scripted to collapse or ensured to succumb to (macedon?) invasions, same with the Zhou (auto-collapse or start at war and auto-lose to Qin)
some civs which must expand quickly have trouble doing so bc there are rarely any flips at all (even though some parts of the map are really crowded) or they lack siege weapons among their starting units.
as Ghaznavids I was really hesitant to found my capital in the first place bc the location was squeezed in by three other cities already
Islam should not be discovered by any civ and have a holy city. Islam was brought into the Far East, the holy city being Mecca. No city on the RFCA map comes close to deserving such a status for Islam.
I discovered a bug when I squatted on Birma as Chola. I found Pagan 1W. The city flipped on their spawn, but the Birmese then started with no techs and no units except for one lonely worker.
Maurya UHV1 did not work for me - I spread Buddhism in three Harappan cities and did'nt get it.
Chalyuka UHV1 did not work, either. In 950 AD I had 4 GAs from conquest, 3 GAs born and settled and another 3 assigned - and still didn't get it. Minor religions did not spread to me at all in that game, either.
The AI founds cities in sub-optimal places making great historical cities like Thatta/Karachi, Multan, Lahore, Shanghai really missed.
some UHV texts are unclear: How can you control a sea as Korea? Where exactly is southern China according to the Vietnamese UHV?
some civ units don't speak their proper languages (I recognized Ethiopian at one point).

By no means I want to say the modmod is bad - quite the contrary: it's great, but maybe not ready yet for beta stage.

You deserve a respond:
-crashes was caused by a malfunction in the artdefines.xml. Fixed.
-old civs will die, and i am strictly against any kind of auto-collapse or anything like that. It's a lazy-ass method of making it historical accurate; all games will be the same etc. etc.
-you have a point here. and i think core areas are too small as well, making the AI found crappy cities (like Chola founding Madurai, Vietnam Ha Thien (spelling?) and some others.
-i played like 10 to 15 games as Ghaznavids and never had any problems founding Ghazna.
-That's right :think:. Black Whole is trying another approach with the Beta. We'll see how that will turn out.
-That's really strange.
-Fixed (hopefully)
-The GA UHV always worked for me. And the minor religions thing: You need to attract them (which is challenging! And fun!): Ressources, buildings, trade routes, wonders. Like the corporations in SoI. What do you expect? Nothing is for free here:lol: A guide would help, nevertheless.
-That's no problem for me. But as Delhi, there has been some crappy cities 2 tiles away from the capital. I had to WB them away:mischief: And Shanghai wasn't important at all in the mod's timeframe. Just like Singapur
-veBear explained.
-That's because some civs are based on Vanilla civs: Birma on Ethiopia, Jurchen on HRE, Majapahit on Zulu iirc. That ought to be fixed for Beta. If you got burmese for example: go get it! Everyone would appreciate it. Honestly.
For the others: We have to use what we got:There is vietnamese in Rise of Mankind
Sumerian for Harrapa
Indian for Chalukya and Chola (though Chola are dravidian...)
Persian for Ghaznavids and Ghorids
Greek for Seleucids. But they are unplayable, so it doesn't matter.
Turkish or Mongol for Göktürks
something exotic indo-european for Tocharians. celtic? Though i thought i could make that, i found a tocharian dictionary:)
Mongol for Jurchen
The chinese, duh.
Tibetian, burmese and bai are sino-tibetian; chinese is the closest.
Sri Vijaya, Majapahit and Bhutuan are in austronesian areas, and i have no idea what to do. Khmer would be a less-than-ideal solution.
Did i forget one?

Black Whole
Feb 11, 2011, 02:09 PM
Sorry, I oversaw your post.... :blush:
Hi there, the idea of taking this modmod into beta has shifted my interest away from the awesome SoI modmod (which is mostly finished now) back to RFCA. I started testing it quite a while ago, but quit on it early again because it constantly crashed on my computer. But I am trying it again bc I love the idea of RFC modmods in an Asian scenario so much. Here's my ideas to improve things (I didn't read through all of the previous comments at all so I dunno whether some issues are already known or not):[LIST]
the game keeps frequently crashing on me. It is currently the only RFC modmod to do so. And I am using the latest versions of BtS and RFC)

The problem is, that it is completely random... I wasn't able to isolate the crash so far...

old civs (Harappa, Zhou, Mauryans) stay in the game for too long and become too powerful. AI Harappa should be scripted to collapse or ensured to succumb to (macedon?) invasions, same with the Zhou (auto-collapse or start at war and auto-lose to Qin)

I don't want to do auto-collapse. It is too deterministic and isn't fun at all. I am working on more historicity with invasions and so on... War on Spawn has also been coded, so Harappa shouldn't survive that long... And honestly, why should Qin start at war with Zhou ;).

some civs which must expand quickly have trouble doing so bc there are rarely any flips at all (even though some parts of the map are really crowded) or they lack siege weapons among their starting units.

Siege weapons will be added, no problem. I encountered a problem with the flip mechanic, but I redid the core areas, so more flips should happen... (China wil have a special flip mechanic)

as Ghaznavids I was really hesitant to found my capital in the first place bc the location was squeezed in by three other cities already

When I come to the Ghaznavids, I will see how this can be solved.

Islam should not be discovered by any civ and have a holy city. Islam was brought into the Far East, the holy city being Mecca. No city on the RFCA map comes close to deserving such a status for Islam.

I don't think this would be good. Islam will spread even less, which doesn't help that (currently) religion. I decided that it will be founded in Mansura. It was the first city founded by the Muslim Caliphate, Baghdad was designed after the concept of Mansura... so I think it deserves to bt the holy city of Islam (SoI has Dwaraka as holy city for Hinduism... doesn't reflect reality ;))

I discovered a bug when I squatted on Birma as Chola. I found Pagan 1W. The city flipped on their spawn, but the Birmese then started with no techs and no units except for one lonely worker.

Hmm... don't know what could cause that... I hope that I didn't break something...

Maurya UHV1 did not work for me - I spread Buddhism in three Harappan cities and did'nt get it.

Hope, I fixed it. Thanks!

Chalyuka UHV1 did not work, either. In 950 AD I had 4 GAs from conquest, 3 GAs born and settled and another 3 assigned - and still didn't get it. Minor religions did not spread to me at all in that game, either.

STrange... as civ-addicted said, it works for him... A sfor Minor rleigions, I will add a guide soon.

The AI founds cities in sub-optimal places making great historical cities like Thatta/Karachi, Multan, Lahore, Shanghai really missed.

Well... this isn't bad as long as they don't found on top of resouzrces... it should be a little bit random, I think.

some UHV texts are unclear: How can you control a sea as Korea? Where exactly is southern China according to the Vietnamese UHV?

Maps, showing that will come,too.

some civ units don't speak their proper languages (I recognized Ethiopian at one point).

Easy, to fix ;).

Now there is only one boolean that will be FALSE if one city doesn't have Buddhism. And it doesn't check if the plot is water; i havn't seen a city yet that's out in the ocean (I hope this doesn't cause a crash) You might want to add another check before you enter another for-block: if the boolean is already False, there is no need to check anymore. Might save a little time if you don't play Tang.
If you look at this map, you see that the Tang had great ambitions to control the Silk Road; but in the game you can win without controlling a single tile of desert...it should be in nevertheless. Instead of the last one to unify china, i suggest to control a continious empire from Hangzhou to Yarkand (or even Bukhara) in 1200. The code might be a problem, but one of us will surely find a solution.
Oh, and Xian should be Chang'an (or Changan, the ' can cause problems in the cityname manager) unless Ming captures it, and the current Tang capital "Suzhou" should be Linan (Lin'an) respectivly Hangzhou if conquered by Ming. Ming should have the modern names, the others can go with the classic ones.
Thanks, for the code! I am redoing the civs, so they have a good and historic starting situation. I will change that with the cities.

@ all:
Currently I am checking each civ in order to achieve a good and interesting start, working goals an powers and especially, possibility of goals... (So buddhism can be attracted to the Tarim Basin ;)). Currently, I have done Harappa and Zhou. Next will be Qin, and I am considering to change the UP. The current one is useless with underdevelopped cities... I think that a UP with barbs like convertung them, would be better.

civ-addicted
Feb 11, 2011, 02:18 PM
Do you change UHVs? Cause i really like them.
The new Qin UP might be something:)

hangman
Feb 12, 2011, 12:19 AM
Came across this espionage mod; I thought the AI code and the promotion system might be useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=259221

I tried to find out how doable espionage-based UHVs would be. Looks like it's possible, but it'll take some creativity, and the current espionage system may need to be rethought.

As it is, espionage works against the player, and it's impossible to prioritize individual cities. This would be an important addition because passive effects are currently based on the EPs against the player himself, and are not 'spent' on passive effects. This allows accumulated EPs to count against all cities at once, which makes passive effects easy to attain. To add difficulty and an element of strategy, I think there should be some city prioritizing system in place, as well as a method to 'purchase' passive effects against a particular city, so that EPs aren't spent based on which city you happen to discover first.

Of course, that would all require SDK modding, which I am absolutely clueless about :confused: I've been looking at CvEspionageAdvisor.py as a starting point, and I honestly don't know where some of the operations are coming from...

Black Whole
Feb 14, 2011, 01:55 PM
Do you change UHVs? Cause i really like them.
The new Qin UP might be something:)

Don't be afraid, I won't do any radical changes... Only shifting some dates, adjusting some values...
The best thing about the new UP is, that it actually works :lol:!

Came across this espionage mod; I thought the AI code and the promotion system might be useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=259221

I tried to find out how doable espionage-based UHVs would be. Looks like it's possible, but it'll take some creativity, and the current espionage system may need to be rethought.

As it is, espionage works against the player, and it's impossible to prioritize individual cities. This would be an important addition because passive effects are currently based on the EPs against the player himself, and are not 'spent' on passive effects. This allows accumulated EPs to count against all cities at once, which makes passive effects easy to attain. To add difficulty and an element of strategy, I think there should be some city prioritizing system in place, as well as a method to 'purchase' passive effects against a particular city, so that EPs aren't spent based on which city you happen to discover first.

Of course, that would all require SDK modding, which I am absolutely clueless about I've been looking at CvEspionageAdvisor.py as a starting point, and I honestly don't know where some of the operations are coming from...

Hmm... I don't like this espionage expansion... I played with it in Rise of Mankind and wasn't very fond of it... But maybe it's just me, I juist think it is far too complex for this type of mod...
Concerning espionage changes, I won't put too much thought into it, as I am still trying to finish the current version. I hope that's okay for you ;).


@all: Is there someone around, who is experienced in civ's python and C++ strucuture? I need someone,because I am stuck at some points and have no idea how to proceed... (e.g.: Jurchen UP, civ-addicted's Ghaznavid UP idea, Rhye's flip mechanic...) Some problems are so specific, that I need someon´, who knows how Rhye's works...

Leoreth
Feb 14, 2011, 04:11 PM
Some aspects of Rhye's code are still arcane to me, but PM me with what you want to do, maybe I can give you some useful input on a few issues at least. :)

civ-addicted
Feb 15, 2011, 03:48 AM
Don't be afraid, I won't do any radical changes... Only shifting some dates, adjusting some values...
The best thing about the new UP is, that it actually works :lol:!But don't make them all doable in the first run. The most fun thing about harder UHVs like Vietnam and Tocharians is that you need a unique strategy for them (keep in mind that they are doable in v0.6B). A few civs can be an extra hard challenge, especially those who sucked in history:)

EDIT:
Instead of the isSinicized() method in the MoH.py, we could give each civ with a bonus for having their palace in China, except Dali core area. Chinese civs have this bonus from the start, it would make the human player (esp. as Jurchen or Mongolia) building a palace in China, like those civs did, and the file a little smaller.
Making the AI do that isn't that complicated, i guess. The Jurchen AI gets a free palace in the first city in China they conquer, which is usually Beijing -> history. And so does the Mongols. I did screw around with Abaoji's (Akuta's :p) personality and i have seen him conquering Northern China sometimes (like 1 out of 3 times); far from perfect.
The value it adds in the python file: 20 or 30. Beta is for adjusting those values.
A city.isinChina() function can come in handy, because you need it both in victory.py and MoH.py various times. I wanted to do it once, but then i didn't remember how that worked (instead of isinChina(city))...
Would you mind renaming the "Modern" era? 1300 to 1500 isn't really modern. Pre-European, Pre-European Domination, Eve of European Domination, or even Islam Era. Just a little brainstorming.

Black Whole
Feb 17, 2011, 02:10 PM
Some aspects of Rhye's code are still arcane to me, but PM me with what you want to do, maybe I can give you some useful input on a few issues at least. :)

Thanks! I will PM you soon (I hope that it will be soon), when I gathered more info :).

@ all I just wanted to inform you, that I am quite busy with my exams ATM, so I don't have any time for modding... I underestimated the workload and well...
I hope to be back ASAP.

@ civ-addicted: This seems quite reasonable! I will look at youe proposals :).

hangman
Feb 18, 2011, 09:27 PM
Hmm... I don't like this espionage expansion... I played with it in Rise of Mankind and wasn't very fond of it... But maybe it's just me, I juist think it is far too complex for this type of mod...

Yeah, I was thinking of only using bits and pieces. I was mainly interested in having a better AI code, since the current one just sends them out almost randomly, it seems.

Concerning espionage changes, I won't put too much thought into it, as I am still trying to finish the current version. I hope that's okay for you ;).

That's fine, I'm partly just posting ideas to keep a record and see what other people think. Although I guess that really deserves its own thread... BTW, has anyone asked about getting a seperate sub-forum for RFCA?

Also, have y'all tried out my warring states-style Japan start? What did you think?

civ-addicted
Feb 19, 2011, 01:12 PM
That's fine, I'm partly just posting ideas to keep a record and see what other people think. Although I guess that really deserves its own thread... BTW, has anyone asked about getting a seperate sub-forum for RFCA?
Not that we don't deserve it:D. But those sub-forum things are meant to make it clearly aranged, not to knight a mod or something. RFCE got it's own because half of the threads in the modmod section were occupied by them. (Let's make like 20 or 30 new threads and see what happens :evil: )Also, have y'all tried out my warring states-style Japan start? What did you think?

Frankly, not yet. But i'm planning to get a heavy overdose next week.
I like to see how you work on this espionage thing. Got some interesting UHVs figured out?

hangman
Feb 22, 2011, 03:15 PM
Not that we don't deserve it:D. But those sub-forum things are meant to make it clearly aranged, not to knight a mod or something. RFCE got it's own because half of the threads in the modmod section were occupied by them. (Let's make like 20 or 30 new threads and see what happens :evil: )

lol let's do it! (But keep it topical of course ;))

Frankly, not yet. But i'm planning to get a heavy overdose next week.
I like to see how you work on this espionage thing. Got some interesting UHVs figured out?

Eh, nothing new. I've been busy with school, and I had sinus surgery a month ago, so I've been pretty dopy and unable to concentrate :crazyeye:

civ-addicted
Feb 22, 2011, 03:20 PM
Okay, this is what i think about the warring states (as honestly as possible):
- if you want history, it's great. Japan wasn't unified until the 16th century, and some cities you're at war with are reasonable way to represent this.
- The spots are well chosen. Tokyo, Nagoya, Nagasaki. No complaints about that. They are important ones, and few enough to grow to a decent size each.
- They start to soon to get that big amount of cities for free-ish (capital + 2 barbs + 3 indies). I fear they will become a powerhouse that even exceed Tang, which they wasn't until -badam- the 16th century.
- preplaced cities is like the best way ever to make every game the same. France didn't suffer from that in RFC. But for Germany, Frankfurt isn't that great of a city, and sometimes i wonder how the game would end up if i'd have Munich, Hannover or Köln instead. I expanded the japanese cityname map just for Mimana, a japanese colony in Korea, which can't be in the game anymore in 99% of all games because of Nagasaki. And it is a good spot.
- For me, indies should be there (and just there) if they represent a civilization not big enough to be playable (the neighbors of Babylon are well choosen each: Isreal, Phoenicia, Elam, Hittitis, Phrygia). Every preplaced city that wasn't a real civilization leaves the impression of ":gripe: i want to have that city in every game and that's it!". RFCE suffers from that a lot (which i happened to play today after a year or so ending up with :twitch: on my face and deleting it again. But that ctrl+hovering over a tile to see the whole province is pretty cool. With provinces in RFCA, we definitly need that;)). You can make both the player and the AI found a city at a certain spot if it's a good one.
- Uniting Japan can be an interesting scenario. We have it in China a lot, and i'm afraid we have to do the same for Korea, which will end up in a "unite your f**king country"-scenario for half of the civs.
- As for Korea, i settled in Kyushu just for the fun of it, pleasing my inner child with a constant "OMFG did you see what i did?" feeling. That wouldn't be possible with Nagasaki, and the same with Mimana. While learning for exams in the past few weeks i watched every "Let's play Rhye's and Fall" episode from FunkyHonky (http://www.youtube.com/user/FunkyHonkyCDXX). It's really entertaining. He said he found Christianity with Japan, because "the idea of Christianity founded in Japan makes him laugh". And you can tell that he has a really great time playing the game, and i'd like to see this mod to have the potential sparking the same feelings.
Back on topic. It's a lot of jabbering, i know.
In the end, i'm not so keen on that. The main reason is this: i'd rather have a fun mod with little history than a historical mod with little fun. But that has always been my point.

hangman
Feb 22, 2011, 05:15 PM
Okay, this is what i think about the warring states (as honestly as possible):
- if you want history, it's great. Japan wasn't unified until the 16th century, and some cities you're at war with are reasonable way to represent this.
- The spots are well chosen. Tokyo, Nagoya, Nagasaki. No complaints about that. They are important ones, and few enough to grow to a decent size each.
- They start to soon to get that big amount of cities for free-ish (capital + 2 barbs + 3 indies). I fear they will become a powerhouse that even exceed Tang, which they wasn't until -badam- the 16th century.

From my experience, giving the barbs/indies some extra units actually made expansion somewhat slower. My goal was to be able to conquer one or two cities from the start, but be forced to build more units to conquer the rest, thereby buying some time for other civs.

- preplaced cities is like the best way ever to make every game the same. France didn't suffer from that in RFC. But for Germany, Frankfurt isn't that great of a city, and sometimes i wonder how the game would end up if i'd have Munich, Hannover or Köln instead. I expanded the japanese cityname map just for Mimana, a japanese colony in Korea, which can't be in the game anymore in 99% of all games because of Nagasaki. And it is a good spot.

I see your point there. Should we just remove Nagasaki? I think it might also improve Kagoshima's location, which isn't all that great atm. Also, the AI has a tendency to move their artificially large armies towards their other cities on the island, so cutting Nagasaki could allow for a more suitable alignment of cities so that it doesn't put them at an unintentional disadvantage.

- For me, indies should be there (and just there) if they represent a civilization not big enough to be playable (the neighbors of Babylon are well choosen each: Isreal, Phoenicia, Elam, Hittitis, Phrygia). Every preplaced city that wasn't a real civilization leaves the impression of ":gripe: i want to have that city in every game and that's it!". RFCE suffers from that a lot (which i happened to play today after a year or so ending up with :twitch: on my face and deleting it again. But that ctrl+hovering over a tile to see the whole province is pretty cool. With provinces in RFCA, we definitly need that;)). You can make both the player and the AI found a city at a certain spot if it's a good one.

While I'm not really a fan of forced city placement either, I think we can make it work if it's balanced well enough and supported by the "unite your country" UHV. I think your idea of the indie cities applies well to RFC, but on the regional maps, I think they are better thought of as minor nations or city-states...the pre-Crusade Levant in SoI would be a good example.

Uniting Japan can be an interesting scenario. We have it in China a lot, and i'm afraid we have to do the same for Korea, which will end up in a "unite your f**king country"-scenario for half of the civs.

I'm also concerned about UHV diversity, and I see your point. However, there are also a lot of building goal UHVs, and I think in Japan's case, we could do better. At the very least, it would only trade a common UHV for another one.

In the end, i'm not so keen on that. The main reason is this: i'd rather have a fun mod with little history than a historical mod with little fun. But that has always been my point.

True. But why have one when you can have both? ;) I'm sure that with collaboration, we could come up with something good.

civ-addicted
Feb 23, 2011, 04:19 AM
First off, i meant Niigata instead of Nagoya. I always mix them up.

Nagasaki don't need to be there. Niigata has two pluses: First, an indie to conquer. And second, it blocks the way to the north (so you don't control all of Honshu from the start). Edo would do quite the same.
I see that you really like the idea. And not everthing needs the way i want it; So let's say we keep Niigata and Edo. They are pretty close to your capital and will flip soon, and that would make it way too easy to get them for free. So they need culture; a religion and some buildings. The garrison in the cities are fine, you shouldn't be able to conquer them soon (make sure Edo is the asian indie, atm there are idian buildings). And Japan should start with less (or no) attacking units.
Kagoshima isn't a bad spot imo, and Kumaso (which is actually a tribe, btw) is auto-razed for some reason, even if they have culture:confused: So you're free to choose which spot you like best.
But uniting Japan isn't that good of a UHV. If i got it right, then the basic idea behind the UHVs is to demand something from the player he wouldn't do normally. If you go for them, you need a whole new strategy. You wouldn't settle that many cities and building temples there with China that quickly in RFC, or settling outside of Italy as Rome, because those cities in Europe will flip away in time.
We have so many options for UHVs, so we don't need to demand something that you will do without being asked to.
Are you fine with that?

hangman
Feb 24, 2011, 06:32 PM
Sounds resonable.

But uniting Japan isn't that good of a UHV. If i got it right, then the basic idea behind the UHVs is to demand something from the player he wouldn't do normally. If you go for them, you need a whole new strategy. You wouldn't settle that many cities and building temples there with China that quickly in RFC, or settling outside of Italy as Rome, because those cities in Europe will flip away in time.
We have so many options for UHVs, so we don't need to demand something that you will do without being asked to.
Are you fine with that?

Huh, I never thought about like that, but that makes a lot of sense.

BTW, I looked through some of the older posts, and I have to say that Korea's Yellow Sea UHV also bothers me. And since Tondo might have a ship sinking goal, I think we might want to just rework it. But I guess we'll have to wait for the beta first.

civ-addicted
Feb 25, 2011, 05:26 AM
Why wait for the Beta? Just post your ideas.
I'd like to see them to grow into a naval power, that's kind of historical, and again a new way for UHVs. I normally don't show that much interest in my navy.

I don't see a real point in having Tondo instead of Butuan. If you havn't read yourself into asian history, you won't have heard of any of those two, so you can't argue that Tondo is more important. The UU and UB are already made and just fit Butuan really. And let's be fair: the idea of having Butuan in RFCA was there earlier;)

After some games, i find the Terrace OP. It's too easy for Khmer and Nanzhao to get a huge capital. +1 :food: instead of +2 :food: for being irregated is enough. It would be like a Farm, but with that little :yuck: penalty from jungle. For Khmer, they get +4 :food: minimum for every jungle tile. Their UP is fine, nevertheless.
Also Elective Monarchy. +100% Golden Age is too much. I'd completly remove that. You won't take anything else (reduced city upkeep is attractive enough), and Birmas UHV, which i really like, is too easy.True. But why have one when you can have both? ;) I'm sure that with collaboration, we could come up with something good.

I forgot to answer: i'm not against history, having both historical accuracy and fun would be best. RFC managed that in a tremendous way sometimes. But i'm more willing to sacrifice historical accuracy for replayability and fun than the other way around.

hangman
Feb 26, 2011, 12:57 PM
I'd like to see them to grow into a naval power, that's kind of historical, and again a new way for UHVs. I normally don't show that much interest in my navy.

I didn't realize they were a particularly sea-faring society, but I guess that makes sense. Maybe instead of controling the Yellow Sea, it could be no foreign culture in the Korea Straight and Jeju Island.

I don't see a real point in having Tondo instead of Butuan. If you havn't read yourself into asian history, you won't have heard of any of those two, so you can't argue that Tondo is more important. The UU and UB are already made and just fit Butuan really. And let's be fair: the idea of having Butuan in RFCA was there earlier;)

I just meant whichever one that will eventually be used.

civ-addicted
Feb 27, 2011, 07:09 AM
Nevermind, it was my Random Rant #224:lol:

Keeping foreign culture away from Korea was discussed already. The downside about that UHV is that you need a huge ring of cities around Korea to keep foreign culture away. Nagasaki only need 10 :culture: for that, and a chinese city on the tip of Shangdong can cause problems too. And if it says that there must not be foreign tiles in Korea, that would be too easy, resulting in a wait-and-see til the date triggers.
And i think that the Koreans really embraced chinese culture, just like the Japanese did. Unlike the Vietnamese, through centuries of occupation by and various revolts against the Chinese.
And Korea wasn't really a naval power, i just read about the Imjin war, how they defeated the Japanese with a really strong navy (partly, of course), and i was all ":think: that might be really great UHVs!". They don't have to be, but it would be nice. Education can be another way. Or video games. It's all about prejudices :p

hoplitejoe
Mar 07, 2011, 04:23 PM
I have been playing as Tibet but I can't see any iron in the Himalayas to build my UU. what iron am i meant to get?

The Capo
Mar 14, 2011, 02:38 AM
How far along is this? It looks very interesting and I loved RFC: Sword of Islam, so I'm sure I'll like this one too. I just wanted to know how everything looks since I am a graphics modder and I'm sure we can help eachother out (since I am also working on a mod that I'd like a few more Asian units for). So whoever is still working on this let me know if it is still moving along.

civ-addicted
Mar 14, 2011, 05:19 AM
Black Whole, the head of this mod is on some kind of hiatus. If i got it right, he's learning for some exams, but he wanted to be back this month.
There are still some people working on this mod, but progress is slowing down and posts in this thread became rather rare, since everyone is awaiting the Beta version. I still play it, but even me, the more i wait for Beta, the less point i see in playtesting it, because so many things will change. Not that it's not fun anymore, but after playing with every civ at least 5 times, i think i saw every bug possible. I've started to play RFC again. Yeah...that's the stuff.:eekdance:
It's really enjoyable and absorbing. Some civs are fully playable, most bugs like not working UHVs are detected. Hopefully, the next version will be more balanced, and unhistorical things happen every time will occure less often, like a über Qin controlling China in 1000AD. Sometimes that's okay, it's a problem if it happens 1 out of 5 times.
For the art: I heard that Bakuel wanted to make indian units and units for the chinese dynasties. Some building art is missing, units are done for now (i converted cultural diversity (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10167581&postcount=169))
Anyway, it's great that you found this mod. Have fun!

@Hoplitejoe: You do have a point there. It is a little strange that all of India and Tibet have to share one iron ressource (between Tosali and Pataliputra). Next to Pagan is one as well iirc.
But that Tibet's UU requires iron although they don't have any doesn't make much sense in the first place.

corovanrobber
Mar 14, 2011, 08:40 AM
it's worth nothing civ-addicted, but to 鶏 in your signature the appropriate verb is いる not ある

BTW how about 裏庭には二羽庭には二羽鶏がいる

civ-addicted
Mar 14, 2011, 08:47 AM
Yeah, i should know this. Corrected.

EDIT: :lol: not bad. I just remember the time our prof tought us about classifier; he's kind of nuts and likes those silly puns. Unfortunatly, he usually uses simpler sentences, so i'm not that into those giant build-ups :blush:

gallen.zhang
Mar 19, 2011, 02:50 AM
These words are translated using Google,my writing english is poor...........

As a Chinese, I want to tell the author, Zhou, Qin, Tang and Ming are various historical periods of Chinese civilization and the different dynasties, and not four independent civilizations, from AD 3000 to the present, Chinese civilization is only be controled by foreign nations Mongolia and the Manchu(which completely destroyed the Chinese civilization), I recommend that authors Zhou, Qin, Tang and Ming merged into the Chinese civilization, Chinese civilization to increase the stability of punishment and the probability of recovery, and join Manchu people , the UHV of china may be :china can not be destoryed by Mongolia and Manchu.

civ-addicted
Mar 19, 2011, 03:29 AM
Welcome to civfanatics! And to RFCA as well:mischief:

The author of the mod hasn't been here in a while, so i'll answer your post, if i may.
I also wondered about that. Once again, it's for gameplay reason. If you would replace every chinese dynasty with a single civ, it had to last throughout the game. Your game would simply take up to 20 hours or more, and that's just plain boring. Hitting "next turn" for hours, where you could actually do something...in reality, if you know what i mean. Learning, meeting your friends etc.. No one would play the new chinese civilization a second time because it would be a plain waste of time.
For sure, you have played Rhye's and Fall, and in the other threads here, you can hear people complaining that it's wrong to merge all the indian history into one civilization. You can always argue that you should divide a civilization, and five minutes another one comes along and says you should merge them again. There are tons of opinions out there about history, so it's better to choose something that adds value to the game instead of trying to make something that plays like wikipedia.
And don't think i'm not interested in history. I really am, and you can't make a mod like RFCA without reading yourself deeply into history of the various civilizations in asia. The author pretty likely knows what you said, but he had a good reason to make it the way it is.
And don't bother writing in english. The first language of many people here isn't english, and no one would mind if it's not perfect.

corovanrobber
Mar 19, 2011, 09:17 PM
It's almost as though you were actually thinking Europeans could make an accurate mod about China.

Black Whole
Mar 20, 2011, 05:18 AM
I am alive, as well as this project is! So no need for necromancing of any sort :lol:.

I am really sorry that I was inactive in the last weeks, but it was impossible for me to do anything for this mod. I will be fully working on this mod at the end of next week, I hope!

It's almost as though you were actually thinking Europeans could make an accurate mod about China.
Errr... yeah? Every person could do an accurate mod about a certain theme if he is interested in it and has some knowledge...

@civ-addicted: I have to thank you very much, you were a perfect replacement for me ;).

These words are translated using Google,my writing english is poor...........

As a Chinese, I want to tell the author, Zhou, Qin, Tang and Ming are various historical periods of Chinese civilization and the different dynasties, and not four independent civilizations, from AD 3000 to the present, Chinese civilization is only be controled by foreign nations Mongolia and the Manchu(which completely destroyed the Chinese civilization), I recommend that authors Zhou, Qin, Tang and Ming merged into the Chinese civilization, Chinese civilization to increase the stability of punishment and the probability of recovery, and join Manchu people , the UHV of china may be :china can not be destoryed by Mongolia and Manchu
Welcome to civfanatics and to our RFCA mod!
I see your point. Actually I have never considered to represent China by only one civ, it just wasn't a real option and I want to tell you why (basically what civ-addicted said):

1) China would be a civ, that should exist for 4350 (Yuan dynasty excluded). In this kind of mod that is a nightmare to achieve: Early civs suffer from their early start and would never be a leading civ in the late game. China should instead have several high periods (Song, Tang, etc.), which is nearly impossible because of stability, economy disadvantages, tech costs, etc.. The longer a civs should exists, the more it becomes impossible to say how it will do during the game, so it would require MUCH time...

2)How shall I represent the different dynasties struggling for power? If I have only one Chinese civ, I will have only one competitor for the Mandate of Heaven for example. While there were periods, when China was splitted into several factions and with only one civ, this is impossible to achieve. With the system now, it should at least reflect this situation. But I am currently trying to make the dynasties disappear when the time has come for them (by invasions and so on).

3)With the splitting into dynasties, we can modify their personalities, so that the Song are more interested in economy and technology and less in warfare.

There were several other reasons but I forgot them now :blush:.

ahh, now I know another one: Some dynasties have different cultural backgrounds... the Tang royalty has Turkish ancestry if I am not mistaken... And the Qin (state not empire) population was mainly compromised of Rong people, so I think that is reason enough to gie them an own civ ;).

How far along is this? It looks very interesting and I loved RFC: Sword of Islam, so I'm sure I'll like this one too. I just wanted to know how everything looks since I am a graphics modder and I'm sure we can help eachother out (since I am also working on a mod that I'd like a few more Asian units for). So whoever is still working on this let me know if it is still moving along.
Well I hope that I will be able to work next week again on this mod, but I don't want to promise anything, as there still some unknown variables, which can hinder the progress...

I have been playing as Tibet but I can't see any iron in the Himalayas to build my UU. what iron am i meant to get?
Yeah, that actually makes no sense.... Either I will remove the requirement or if anyone knows where important iron deposits were in India and Tibet, just let me know ;).

I hope that I will have more time...

civ-addicted
Mar 20, 2011, 08:14 AM
Everyone has a life, and so does you. At least there's hope again that a new version will come soon.
please forgive me that i spoke on your behalf without you asking me to do so. :please: I just felt responsible.

oops, i was over-excited to hear from you again, so i misread the line that was adressed to me. You're welcome.

There are plenty of iron deposits in India. The first thing i usually do is reading is the according wikipedia article, and it says that in Goa, Karntakka and Tamil Nadu are also big ones, apart from the north east (where already is one). I'd say put an iron ressource 2 west of the Chola capital. It could serve quite a few purposes: It would make the Chola capital a more valueable city (in my Chola games Tosali usually became, and Gangaikonda Cholapuram just sucked. I bumped some wonders per GE because i felt so sorry :lol:), you wouldn't need to expand that quickly into the north as Chola, and as Chalukya, going for the Chola capital would actually serve a purpose (i think i read somewhere that they did, but i can't find it anymore).

hangman
Mar 21, 2011, 11:43 PM
I keep getting crashes on this one... just fortify the military units and click next turn.

merijn_v1
Mar 22, 2011, 09:53 AM
I keep getting crashes on this one... just fortify the military units and click next turn.

This could be the solution.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10118228&postcount=672

AnotherPacifist
Mar 22, 2011, 09:54 AM
There's actually good evidence to suggest that the Shang and Zhou are different civs in terms of game play.

Same thing for the transition between Qin/Han/Three Kingdoms to later dynasties (after the Wu Hu infiltrated traditionally Han lands), and Tang itself was highly influenced by central Asian Turkish culture and military practices.

hangman
Mar 22, 2011, 06:07 PM
This could be the solution.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10118228&postcount=672

I don't think that's it... the only line with "ground_contest.dds" is under Jurchen barracks, and there's no extra comma there, and I already fixed it for the post station.

civ-addicted
Mar 23, 2011, 10:15 AM
Have you thought about an espionage-based Japan? It feels hushed up since it has been floated. It either means it has already been included, or much more likely, kicked.
I experimented with it last weekend, and it's really not that bad (trust me :p). The thing is if we ever come to include it, it's better if we do it now than starting a whole new approach in the Beta.
Some things need to be changed: The UHVs (obviously), the UB to a X% bonus on espionage and maybe granting a free spy (the unit, not the specialist), Shinto to espionage and a little culture. I wanted to change the Shinto buildings to grant espionage bonus, but that just didn't felt right. The UP is still fine, the UU also.
Brainstorming about UHVs isn't necessary so far...all i know is if Shinto provides espionage there is no real need for a UHV to demand controlling Korea, Taiwan or the Philippines, since it's worth it just to control it for the resources.
If the japanese game is all about Geishas and Ninjas, it is of course a cliche. But sometimes RFC has to be a cliche, german history isn't all about war and technology, or the Americans have to conquer the middle east for oil.

Black Whole
Mar 23, 2011, 04:29 PM
Everyone has a life, and so does you. At least there's hope again that a new version will come soon.
please forgive me that i spoke on your behalf without you asking me to do so. :please: I just felt responsible.

oops, i was over-excited to hear from you again, so i misread the line that was adressed to me. You're welcome.

There are plenty of iron deposits in India. The first thing i usually do is reading is the according wikipedia article, and it says that in Goa, Karntakka and Tamil Nadu are also big ones, apart from the north east (where already is one). I'd say put an iron ressource 2 west of the Chola capital. It could serve quite a few purposes: It would make the Chola capital a more valueable city (in my Chola games Tosali usually became, and Gangaikonda Cholapuram just sucked. I bumped some wonders per GE because i felt so sorry :lol:), you wouldn't need to expand that quickly into the north as Chola, and as Chalukya, going for the Chola capital would actually serve a purpose (i think i read somewhere that they did, but i can't find it anymore).
Okay Iron is already added. Thanks! It is hard to find the right wikipedia articles :lol:. As for the next version, I planned to check each civ if they are playable and at least some kind of historic and then I will release a pre-beta, as the exams completely ruined my schedule...

I keep getting crashes on this one... just fortify the military units and click next turn.
I will check this one out. I know that there is a crash around but I haven't been able to find a reason for this, so I hope that this save helps!

Have you thought about an espionage-based Japan? It feels hushed up since it has been floated. It either means it has already been included, or much more likely, kicked.
I experimented with it last weekend, and it's really not that bad (trust me ). The thing is if we ever come to include it, it's better if we do it now than starting a whole new approach in the Beta.
Some things need to be changed: The UHVs (obviously), the UB to a X% bonus on espionage and maybe granting a free spy (the unit, not the specialist), Shinto to espionage and a little culture. I wanted to change the Shinto buildings to grant espionage bonus, but that just didn't felt right. The UP is still fine, the UU also.
Brainstorming about UHVs isn't necessary so far...all i know is if Shinto provides espionage there is no real need for a UHV to demand controlling Korea, Taiwan or the Philippines, since it's worth it just to control it for the resources.
If the japanese game is all about Geishas and Ninjas, it is of course a cliche. But sometimes RFC has to be a cliche, german history isn't all about war and technology, or the Americans have to conquer the middle east for oil.
I haven't really thought about this one. The espionage system seemed quite... messy for me, so I didn't want to do much with it. But if you say that it isn't that bad, I will try it out, when I am checking Japan's starting situation. (Currently Tocharians are halfway done... I want at least the early civs to have a flavorful game experience)

Black Whole
Mar 24, 2011, 05:26 AM
Okay I have on question for those who know python: I want that the method adds random technologies to a civ if it has the prerequesites dependent on the era. (So a civ that spawns in Era 1 gets two Techs (0 and 1)). Unfortunately this doesn't work... if you know how to solve that, please let me know :). This method triggers upon the birth of a civ, that breaks free from another one (e.g. Han from Qin)

def deriveTechs(self, iNewborn, iOldCiv):

pNew = gc.getPlayer(iNewborn)
pOld = gc.getPlayer(iOldCiv)
teamNew = gc.getTeam(pNew.getTeam())
teamOld = gc.getTeam(pOld.getTeam())
lAdditionalTechs = []

for iTech in range(con.iNumTechs):
if (PyPlayer(iOldCiv).hasResearchedTech(iTech)):
teamNew.setHasTech(iTech, True, iNewborn, False, False)

for iTechn in range(con.iNumTechs):
if (not PyPlayer(iNewborn).hasResearchedTech(iTechn)):
for i in range(gc.getDefineINT("NUM_UNIT_OR_TECH_PREREQS")):
result = gc.getTechInfo(iTechn).getPrereqOrTechs(i)
if (PyPlayer(iNewborn).hasResearchedTech(result)):
lAdditionalTechs.append(iTechn)
break

iEra = pNew.getCurrentEra()

for iTechno in range(iEra):
if (iTechno < len(lAdditionalTechs)):
teamNew.setHasTech(lAdditionalTechs[iTechno], True, iNewborn, False, False)
print("techadditional:", lAdditionalTechs[iTechno])

hangman
Mar 25, 2011, 10:05 PM
Have you thought about an espionage-based Japan? It feels hushed up since it has been floated. It either means it has already been included, or much more likely, kicked.

I don't think there was much discussion to begin with, but I think it might get more publicity (and possible future use) if I float the idea in modmods. I'll compile all my ideas and post a new thread.

I experimented with it last weekend, and it's really not that bad (trust me :p). The thing is if we ever come to include it, it's better if we do it now than starting a whole new approach in the Beta.

Well, black whole said he wouldn't implement any significant new changes until after the beta, so I haven't been especially motivated to crank out new ideas. And I've also been distracted by school and real life :p But, yeah.


Some things need to be changed: The UHVs (obviously), the UB to a X% bonus on espionage and maybe granting a free spy (the unit, not the specialist), Shinto to espionage and a little culture.

I thought about that too, but as it is, it's possible to accumulate all the EPs you need extremely quickly. I think it would be boring to just scale the production and resource cost, so I think it would be more fun (from the player's end, at least ;)) if we change up the way EPs are spent.

I wanted to change the Shinto buildings to grant espionage bonus, but that just didn't felt right. The UP is still fine, the UU also.
Brainstorming about UHVs isn't necessary so far...all i know is if Shinto provides espionage there is no real need for a UHV to demand controlling Korea, Taiwan or the Philippines, since it's worth it just to control it for the resources.
If the japanese game is all about Geishas and Ninjas, it is of course a cliche. But sometimes RFC has to be a cliche, german history isn't all about war and technology, or the Americans have to conquer the middle east for oil.

No arguments there.

Olaf_The_Great
Mar 27, 2011, 01:01 AM
Sorry if I'm sadly ignorant (I have no played this yet) but is there any chance of creating an Indo-Greek Kingdom that spawns in 254(In Afganistan as Baktria) or 100-some(in Gandhara)? I can bring up info on this if you've never heard of them.

Edit: Downloading now. If the Chinese Dynasties are different, do they only spawn if the previous is destroyed? Or is it just dynamic leaders like Rhye's?

civ-addicted
Mar 27, 2011, 11:21 AM
Greeks are coming! in the next version to be precise. They are unplayable, though i'm already thinking about making them playable and giving them a UP and stuff (in my modmod - coming soon:p)

atm the chinese dynasties are treated like any other civ. They spawn regulary; sometimes Zhou or Qin are über, normally Tang is incredibly strong and running most of China, being the tech leader and far ahead on the score board. Again, a big change is announced in the china matter, including 2 new dynasties (Han and Song).
@Black Whole: no spoiler, please. But a teaser would be nice.:)

Black Whole
Mar 27, 2011, 01:39 PM
Sorry if I'm sadly ignorant (I have no played this yet) but is there any chance of creating an Indo-Greek Kingdom that spawns in 254(In Afganistan as Baktria) or 100-some(in Gandhara)? I can bring up info on this if you've never heard of them.

Edit: Downloading now. If the Chinese Dynasties are different, do they only spawn if the previous is destroyed? Or is it just dynamic leaders like Rhye's?

Greeks will be in, but as civ-addicted said, they will be unplayable for the first version (actually, they are playable because I haven't found out, how to remove the switch to them during game :lol:). I had to make them quite artificial, spawning at 323 BC with the Seleukid kingdom. A later start date is not possible, as it would give them only 40 turns or so to be 'historical'... They have two UUs instead of a UB and no goals, and UP... But we will see, maybe the can be activated. I know about the Indo Greek culture, it is just problematic, as this map area is already filled out civ wise...

About Chinese dynasties: I am not quite sure, how they will spawn in the end. Dynamic spawning is close to impossible, at least if you aim for a historical gameplay... so the dynasties will spawn normally, but I have some ideas to make it more interesting ( I want that each dynasty can actually conquer their historical territory...)

As for Japan, I will try out the proposals, when it is Japan's turn ;). (Currently tweaking Seleucid start)

christos200
Mar 27, 2011, 03:13 PM
there is also a indo-greek kingdom. look at wiki.

Leoreth
Mar 27, 2011, 04:30 PM
I don't see a problem in having all "Greeks" mingled in one civilization, however, the focus should be more on the Greco-Bactrians because their impact on East Asia was significantly higher than the Seleucids'.

civ-addicted
Mar 28, 2011, 08:55 AM
Greeks will be in, but as civ-addicted said, they will be unplayable for the first version (actually, they are playable because I haven't found out, how to remove the switch to them during game :lol:). I had to make them quite artificial, spawning at 323 BC with the Seleukid kingdom. A later start date is not possible, as it would give them only 40 turns or so to be 'historical'... They have two UUs instead of a UB and no goals, and UP... But we will see, maybe the can be activated. I know about the Indo Greek culture, it is just problematic, as this map area is already filled out civ wise...

I don't see a problem in having all "Greeks" mingled in one civilization, however, the focus should be more on the Greco-Bactrians because their impact on East Asia was significantly higher than the Seleucids'.

It's all about how you define "civilization". I don't see a problem either with merging Alexander, the Seleucids, the Graeco-Bactrians and the Indo-Greeks to a single "greek" civilization. They could spawn in 330 BC (i like round dates better, btw) at Kandahar, which was founded in 330BC; so it's not that incorrect. The capital is called "Alexandreia Arachosia", and the rest, well we will see. We could ditch the problem that the Seleucian capital wasn't even on the map. Maybe Peshewar or Balkh would be a better capital, but as you said, this area is really crowded.
Btw, do you need a greek/seleucian citynamemap? I'd love to make it.

Black Whole
Mar 29, 2011, 10:45 AM
It's all about how you define "civilization". I don't see a problem either with merging Alexander, the Seleucids, the Graeco-Bactrians and the Indo-Greeks to a single "greek" civilization. They could spawn in 330 BC (i like round dates better, btw) at Kandahar, which was founded in 330BC; so it's not that incorrect. The capital is called "Alexandreia Arachosia", and the rest, well we will see. We could ditch the problem that the Seleucian capital wasn't even on the map. Maybe Peshewar or Balkh would be a better capital, but as you said, this area is really crowded.
Btw, do you need a greek/seleucian citynamemap? I'd love to make it.
I planned, that with the appearance of the Seleukids, every Greek influence should be represented by one civ, which should be around until 420 AD. So the Hephthalites will crush them in´the end. (Maybe we can add a respawn for Yuezhi as Kushana).

As for the city map, I already made one, I will uload it, so you can add more cities. Remember that each city should be renamed to Islamic cities later on! (Most of the cities
have that conversion... I can post that too if you want ;)).

civ-addicted
Mar 29, 2011, 12:12 PM
No, it's almost perfect. Just a few complaints:
Instead of Patala, use Xylinepolis, the other name for the city, instead. Just because it sounds more greek. Flavorwise.
Alexandreia (Merv) would be better of with "Antiokheaia tes Margianes" (i don't know greek, but it seems to me that 'tes' is outdated for 'he', english 'of'), because people might think it's a bug (i think of the egyptian city first when i hear that). Unless you think the other one is to long.
That 'tes' can be in "A. tes Oxus" and "A. tes Indus". It sounds more correct, but once again, i'm no expert.
Bukephalia is on the wrong place; It's a twin city with Nicaea. Use Arigaeum, modern days Nawagai instead and use Bukephalia to fill the gap in NE Pakistan.
EDIT: Not to mention, "Palibothra" is the greek name for Pataliputra [source (http://www.bihar.ws/info/History-of-Patna/History-of-Patna.html)]. You never know when it comes in handy :p.
I'm worried about some gaps, but we will see in-game if the map needs to be expanded. So far it's fine.

christos200
Mar 29, 2011, 02:11 PM
i know ancient greek cities near india built by alexander with their greek names.

civ-addicted
Apr 02, 2011, 08:47 AM
Remember how i said that a code for a UHV for Tang to control a continious empire from Bukhhara to Hangzhou is a problem? Ha!
If you don't like that UHV, or there is already a similar python code, i don't care. I'm proud of the code nevetheless. There are rough explanations what the algorithm does in the code; just in case you're interested.
It's a recursive algorithm simply because i kind of have a thing for them :groucho:

Optical
Apr 03, 2011, 04:52 AM
Just DLed, where do I put patch B after I've unzipped it?

AlistairMac
Apr 05, 2011, 11:40 AM
is the beta out yet?

Black Whole
Apr 06, 2011, 03:05 PM
i know ancient greek cities near india built by alexander with their greek names.
It would be great if you posted them :). I also did some cities in India but it is far from perfect.

Remember how i said that a code for a UHV for Tang to control a continious empire from Bukhhara to Hangzhou is a problem? Ha!
If you don't like that UHV, or there is already a similar python code, i don't care. I'm proud of the code nevetheless. There are rough explanations what the algorithm does in the code; just in case you're interested.
It's a recursive algorithm simply because i kind of have a thing for them

:lol: Cool, I will use it ;).

Just DLed, where do I put patch B after I've unzipped it? I would recommend to unzip it in your /Beyond the Sword/Mods directory, otherwise you will need to replace every file on your own... (I am not sure about the directory though, the correct directory is in the first post).

is the beta out yet? Unfortunately not... RL has eaten up my free time, but I am trying to code as much as possible... So the beta will be a pre-beta in the end ;).

Baron03
Apr 21, 2011, 08:37 PM
Any progress yet on the Beta?

Tigranes
Apr 22, 2011, 11:43 PM
We were just told even after all this wait it will only be pre-beta...