am I the only guy who thinks the Hippus are now alone feeling incredibly vanilla?

they get the Horselord civtrait, and mounted mercs. if they can build the guild of the nine first. if you are playing with that gameoption on.

a bit boring for a FFH civ, right?

does anyone have ideas to make them more interesting? I'm thinking building on the "masters of mercenaries" theme would be great, Hippus should be played with an emphasis on Gold instead of Science, making them feel truly unique.

what about allowing them to buy mercenaries, that vary depending on which civs you are in contact with, with the availability and gold cost depending on your relations/open borders/trade routes with them? ( that way you could get UUs, or units with special abilities like ljolsafar archers and svartalfar recon... )

perhaps they would also be able to sell their units to other civs in exchange for gold?

I do agree, Hippus are a bland civ. I almost never pick them to play as because there is really nothing unique to them.

I really like the idea of Hippus being able to sell their units for gold, fits their mercenery backgrounds really well. Can this be coded?

What about giving them access to more varied mounted units, make everything a variation on the horse.

Something along the lines of: Mounted Swordsmen, or Mounted Mages? everything mounted and very mobile.

Remove their ability to build siege weapons, or give them a weak but mobile siege weapon. The point behind Hippus is speed and mobility.

How about allow them to hire mercs whenever they want, and the mercs they hire vary according to the techs they have. Ex.

Start of game, they can hire horse scouts for 60 gold (strength 2 unit, 3 movement, mounted).
Upon researching horseback riding, they can hire mercenary horsemen for 120 gold (strength 4 unit, no bonus vs archery, but can use metal)
Upon researching stirrups, can hire their current mounted merc for 180 gold
Upon researching Armored Cav, can hire Cataphracs, a strength 8 unit that can use metal for 240 gold.

I think adding that would be more than enough to make them different.

-Colin

Only on point of "selling" units, I've seen it accomplished through a diplomacy screen when playing Rise of Mankind, w/ A New Dawn. Only some units are eligible for trade though, like workers and siege engines. Could always change that so anything the Hippus build is eligible for trade. I do not know what value the AI places on this, I only really used this function to demand tribute or to sign a peace treaty. It may be that peace time trading, you could get offered chump change or have AI civs not value the exchange at all, not even giving 1 gold for a shiny new catapult. Often AI civs are near bankrupt anyhow so they might not be able to afford anything.

I suppose a kludgey solution is like the Undercouncil slave market. Sell a unit (basically, cast a spell on self), get gold for it. Really, it simply removes the unit from play as opposed to adding it to someone else's army, as again, all those someone elses probably do not have spare gold.

Could do it through events too, though they might have to be annoyingly frequent. Stuff like "A group of horsemen offers themselves up to serve your empire. Hire them?" Say yes and you gain 3 horsemen and the Hippus get paid 300 gold, say no and either nothing happens, or the Hippus gain 1 horseman with the "Down on His Luck" promo, costing 1 gpt until he wins a battle. Kidding about the promo, its just an idea that may keep people thinking they might rather grab units off the market rather than have them join the regular forces of the Hippus.

Could do it through events too, though they might have to be annoyingly frequent. Stuff like "A group of horsemen offers themselves up to serve your empire. Hire them?"

this could be a perfect fit for the hippus, random events unique to them that happen more frequently if you have more gold, and UBs that raise that chance and decrease costs. mercenaries just asking to be hired :D

Yea the Hippus have always been a bit backwards when you look at the lore. In the game they always get discounts to hire or chances to hire mercs, but they never get a benefit of being a merc civ themselves. Granted the discounts are valid when you consider Rhoanna's reforms that brought a more centralized leadership, but on the edges of the empire Hippus mercs were still condoned and encouraged by Tasunke and the other generals. From what I understand of Rhoanna's reforms she is much like Mahala in that as civilization advances if they dont advance with it they will be swallowed up by it. Rhoanna still carries wind in her and will embrace the tribes that are still sell swords and defend them as needed for a cut of the profits and as long as they dont sell their swords to a rivals (which of course carries a penalty of death).

a leader with the Barbarian trait for them would be fun :D

One with Orc blood? Hehe

Who can sell his units to the barbarians... Ultimate barbarian horsearcher stacks FTW...

[QUOTE=readercolin;8936015]How about allow them to hire mercs whenever they want, and the mercs they hire vary according to the techs they have. Ex.

I worked with Darque on the Dragonia Mod last year. He had a working "Mercenary System" with a window access button next to the Events Button. A list of available mercenaries of different races and types would be available to hire varying in cost and maintenance.

If this idea moves forward, someone could contact him regarding the python code he was using.

[QUOTE=readercolin;8936015]How about allow them to hire mercs whenever they want, and the mercs they hire vary according to the techs they have. Ex.

I worked with Darque on the Dragonia Mod last year. He had a working "Mercenary System" with a window access button next to the Events Button. A list of available mercenaries of different races and types would be available to hire varying in cost and maintenance.

If this idea moves forward, someone could contact him regarding the python code he was using.

I wouldn't recommend it. Mainly because it's the exact code Orbis is currently using, and it causes OOS issues; He's getting rid of the system as a result.

How about this one. A bit flavorcentered, but perhaps it can be simplified through discussion.
Everytime they have research a T2 unit tech of a weapon type i.e. archery, bronze working, knowledge of the ether, horseback riding, Hunting Hippus can found a mercenary guild in their cities that can be spread to any city (you don't control? You can't offer yourself to yourself right?). For each city that has the mercenary guild you get +0,5 :gold:, +0,1 XP training rate and +0,5 XP maximum for the respective unit type in the city with the headquarter, but your military production is reduced by a certain percentage (As less people are available as the mercenaries are travelling around elsewhere).
With a higher tech from the weapon type branch you can upgrade the building increasing the boni it grants to you, but also improving the units your opponents get. Thus while with Horseback riding you get +0,5 gold +0,1XP passive xp gain and +0,5 XP cap per city you get +1 gold +0,2 passive XP gain +1XP cap
Someone (except yourself) that has the guild in their city can decide to buy units of the respective type (similar to hire mounted mercenary or hire mercenary spell or goblin clan spells). He gets to choose those units that are enabled by the headquarter --> Headquarter level 1 --> Horsemen, Headquarter level 2 --> Horseback archer etc. Mercenaries start with XP/2 of your XP cap.
If you are in war with a civ all spreads of mercenaries in your enemy's cities are removed and every unit with the Hippus mercenary promo that is on the side of your enemy has a chance to switch sides (being teleported to your capital)

just played beneath the heel, the mercenaries asking to be hired would be perfect for Hippus+ :D

I think it feels a bit strange to make a civilization of mercenaries actually have the special ability to hire mercenaries- when in fact they are supposed to be the mercenaries themselves.

It would probably be better to attempt to reflect their sellsword nature in gameplay somehow, such as allowing them to join into ongoing wars between factions with very few, if any, diplomatic penalties and actually making other leaders pay them to fight on their side.

In addition, if the Hippus had joined into a war between other factions, supporting one side it would probably be interesting if they were paid for the units they killed, with substantial bounties paid for capturing cities, and that those cities they took over while flying the banner of the other faction was handed over to their employer.

In gameplay this means that the Hippus would be sticking their grubby little fingers into every little war imaginable and earn gold and experience as they undermine the war-effort of their employer's enemy, all whilst suffering very little diplomatic penalties and not being subject to whatever applicable sansaction there might be from other factions.

I believe that would be a much more interesting and flavourful approach than simply mercenaries hiring mercenaries. Everyone hires mercenaries- whereas mercenaries are unique because they sell themselves.

Is it possible to have a HN like promo that makes the unit look like being part of a different civ? I.e. if you offer your services to the Sheaim they have the Sheaim flag and can attack units that are in war with the Sheaim.

Imuratep's idea would be awesome, but I imagine ti would be very difficult to code. Maybe we should pester xienwolf to see if he can do it.



Have you tried my latest release of my modmod yet? It includes a reworking of mercenaries. Instead of being a unitclass, Mercenary is a promotion. The Guild of the Nine's hire Mercenary spell gives a promotion (which Magnadine can get without it) that allows the hiring of mercenary units of several unitclasses. You may hire these in any city of a civ with whom you have open borders, and the units you hire will be of the city's original civ's race and UUs. That civ gets a cut of the cost of hiring the mercenary. That cut is normally 10%, but is 50% if the civ was Hippus. Mercenaries hired by the Hippus do not get the Mercenary promotion. That is a good thing, as the promotion gives a 1% chance of turning barbarian and makes each battle cost you 5 gold.

Sounds interesting. Definitely have to try your new version.

bump for tesb and his further flavoured civs... come on mate flavour up a civ that REALLY needs it :p ;)

Why exactly do they need it?

They play well, they are not underpowered, and IMO were intended to be vanilla. The most I'd do is a mounted mage.

well you could say the same about Doviello, Bannor, Grigori etc. then, I mean every race was intended to be the way it is in FFH ;) that doesn't mean that they wouldn't benefit from some added flavour...

Gekko;9208199']well you could say the same about Doviello, Bannor, Grigori etc. then, I mean every race was intended to be the way it is in FFH ;) that doesn't mean that they wouldn't benefit from some added flavour...

My point wasn't that they can't benefit from added flavor... But that they don't need it.

The Hippus are one of the consistently strong civs... They are on the same tier that I attempt to bring other civs up to. They are extremely well designed for what they do.

The Doviello had major issues with the mid-late game, as well as being boring. So I worked on them, as has Ahwaric and Sephi.

The other civs worked on are the same; Both uninteresting/needing flavor, and underpowered.


Minor things (like a mounted mage) are fine, and add flavor. But IMO there is no need for anything major.

nah I disagree since you can't really say that any civ NEEDED something. it was better off buffed up a bit and flavoured that's for sure, but not really a NEED. and most of the civs that got that treatment were already arguably MORE flavourful then the hippus.

now don't get me wrong I like to play with them and I don't want every civ to be supercomplicated. but in WM, they are the only civ left being very very vanilla. the only special thing they have is better horsies, and mounted mercs ( IF they can get it ). for one, mounted mercs should be a sure thing instead of a possibility, but that's still not enough imho. expanding the mercenary theme wouldn't be something absurdly complicate, would add some much needed flavour and uniqueness to them, AND ( possibly the most important thing ) provide them with a more distinctive playstyle that is not simply "build horsies, pillage" . I definitely support anything that can get them closer to an ideal playstyle with science at 0%, relying entirely on gold for mercs. but if the only mercs you can build are mounted mercs, it gets boring pretty fast... ;)

expanding the mercenary theme wouldn't be something absurdly complicate, would add some much needed flavour and uniqueness to them

this is easy to say, but when you go on actual coding and implementing stuff it often turns out the other way.



does anyone have ideas to make them more interesting? I'm thinking building on the "masters of mercenaries" theme would be great, Hippus should be played with an emphasis on Gold instead of Science, making them feel truly unique.

what about allowing them to buy mercenaries, that vary depending on which civs you are in contact with, with the availability and gold cost depending on your relations/open borders/trade routes with them? ( that way you could get UUs, or units with special abilities like ljolsafar archers and svartalfar recon... )

perhaps they would also be able to sell their units to other civs in exchange for gold?

that for example would require quite some python work. if you come up with a concept, (and i mean a concept not just a quick idea) that does not require heavy python work then i can do something for you since i have time the next week and my calabim project is nearing completion.

I'll see if I can come up with more ideas, but there are some excellent ones in the thread already so check it out you might find something easy to code which sparks your interest ;)

What if they were a Mongolesque Horde?

what do you mean by that? gameplay wise?

Hippus are pretty powerful as is, and frankly I play them pretty much like Genghis Khan was their leader... zip in with mounted troops, ruin everything you can, maybe take a city or two, and just keep doing that. The horselord promo they get is really, really good, but it isn't very useful if you don't attack things, is it?

If considering additions for the sake of "flavor", if that flavor also results in some kind of increment in terms of power, it might need to have some level of detriment accompany it. Could even be something extreme like weakening or otherwise limiting some of their non-mounted line, like if their non-mounted tier 2 & 3 units were somehow gimped, reflecting that the cream of Hippus warriors are on horses, everyone else is not made of stuff as stern. Silly example might be that Champions wouldn't get +25% vs. melee, but they'd get +25% vs. mounted, since as the "horselords", who's going to have the best grip on countermeasures against a mounted assault? Give them pikemen graphics if you wanted, in such case. While this means meeting another stack of enemy Champions in the field would see a disadvantage if going toe to toe, Hippus tactics would dictate that a terrifying stack of horsemen, horse archers, chariots, whatever, are used to tear a stack of enemy Champions up before other of your "less elite" forces come in to try and mop up.

Anyhow, yeah, I guess all I'm saying is that if there's opportunities for gold, or extra merc. events, or other "fun and flavorful" mechanics, it might mean having to whittle away in other areas for balancing reasons. Even if not at the unit-level, there's got to be other creative ways to achieve balance, like leaders all getting some extra not entirely positive traits (maybe make a new version of the Greedy trait called Mercenary with some gold / unitclass based xp bonuses, and a variety of other malus for say, diplomacy, happiness, maybe a research penalty, a promo on your units which causes them to sometimes get the Enraged and Bounty Hunter promo at the same time, going off and murdering someone for gold, ha ha)

what do you mean by that? gameplay wise?

Well the mongols were nomadic, which is pretty difficult to do, but the next best thing is to enable them to do all their fighting on horseback, with little need for infantry. Seige weapons would still be a requirement, but perhaps the ability to build seige equipment on the fly would work, just to bombard the cities defenses. Additionally make it more difficult for them to live in a settled manner. For instance they could not cities in the typical sense, and instead recruit horsemen from the steppe. However much of this fits a more barbarian race more then the hippus. There's not really many historical analogues to draw upon with them.

However visually you could try and evoke the Mongol theme. They'd even fit into a medieval setting quite well (though a more tartar rather then Mongol look might be better).

Generally speaking the Mongols just swept over, pillaged and massacred everyone. Though to be fair other civs fit that theme as well as the hippus.

An alternative is to make them more clearly medieval Knights, or dark ages European kingdoms, for instance you could import elements of the Palatinate in Orbis. Either way what they need most is a flavourful presentation, and I think associating them with some kind of historical power(visually) would be the easiest way to do it.

One way of implementing mercenaries:

Give all hippus military units a "fund mercenary guild" ability. This could either sacrifice the unit or cost some gold, and create a mercenary guild building in the city, which would grant all units in the city the ability to hire various mercenaries (perhaps depending on what units the hippus civ has access to) for gold, of which a percentage would go to the hippus civ that founded the guild (unless it's the hippus civ that hires the mercenaries).

This could also work like a religion, giving some small amount of gold income to the hippus player, perhaps through the palace, to represent hiring out to merchants etc.

Seem to have forgotten about this particular modmod, btw.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335194

that's nice indeed and I'd like to see it merged but they need something more imho ;)

why on earth are you so hostile to flavouring the Hippus btw? you are always adding fancy stuff left and right, but not for them? hate tasunke much? :p :lol:

Gekko;9209240']that's nice indeed and I'd like to see it merged but they need something more imho ;)

why on earth are you so hostile to flavouring the Hippus btw? you are always adding fancy stuff left and right, but not for them? hate tasunke much? :p :lol:

I'm not hostile about it... I just don't think they need it. They are already strong, and too often people give boosts without giving negatives.

BrokenBone summed it up perfectly. With them as strong as they are now, any boost must come at a cost. My problem with that is it inherently makes them less friendly to new players... And they are one of few civs easily accessible, without having to learn too much.

Well, since this is a brainstorming thread, and we're talking about drawbacks...

The downside of mercenaries is generally morale and loyalty. You could add a decent chance of defeated hippus units converting to the opponent instead of being destroyed, or, perhaps, going rogue (aka barbarian).

Just a note, I've been playing the Austrin a lot lately, quite fun. But, they almost seem more mobile than the Hippus. Any Austrin unit with Level 2 Channeling (so a Priest of any religion or any Mage) can summon 1 Pegasus per turn, which any Austrin Melee or Arcane unit can then mount for +3 movement and the flying promotion. Or you can even go Empyrian, build a Sun Guard (whatever the infantry with Sun 2 are called), mount then on a pegasus, and then upgrade them to Rathas.

Flying 5 or 6 movement chariots with Sun 2, almost like Helios :).

Anyway, the point of all of this being that the Hippus should be able to wage mounted war more effectively than the Austrin and currently the Austrin can easily build an army of 4-move Melee units with March, etc, along with flying 4-move mages for fireballing to kill city defenses.

Perhaps the Hippus should be able to summon Pegasi as well but only put their mounted units on them? Or have some sort of alternative summons? While perhaps the Austrin should/could be better at exploring, I think the Hippus should be better at outright mobile pillaging and warfare.

Shouldn't that be Channeling 3? Or did Sephi change it? If so, there should really be some cost involved... What I remember from the FF version (haven't played Austrin in a while, and I've not changed them in RifE) was each Archmage could summon one Pegasus in it's lifetime... Giving you a total of 4 pegasi. FAR more limited than what you describe.

Some things i have thought of (but they are rather boring/unnecessary):

-Mobile population: When in a city every unit can cast a spell reducing the population by 1 and give 1 mounted citizen (no combat value) so you can move your population at will, for example evacuating a city that is going to get overrun, quickly settling a new city etc.

-Fresh horses: Your stables automatically give all mounted units the fresh horse promotion increasing the movement by 1, with a duration of one turn.

-Making the mercenary contract (already implemented with the equipment option) more accessible.

But honestly i agree with Valkrionn, they are strong enough and you need some vanilla civilizations.

Some things i have thought of (but they are rather boring/unnecessary):

-Mobile population: When in a city every unit can cast a spell reducing the population by 1 and give 1 mounted citizen (no combat value) so you can move your population at will, for example evacuating a city that is going to get overrun, quickly settling a new city etc.



This would be a nice civ specific feature. maybe adding a little sherbert in the vanilla. ;)

Well if more people want this or have better ideas i will code it, since this can be done very quickly.

I think something more aesthetic, IE flavorful is all that's necessary. A more clear role, or agenda. Every other Civ has something more to shoot for. Something shiny in the end game. Hippus don't. They need more of a purpose. Some kind of ideological underpinning. I think some kind of mechanic rewarding them for building a large expansive empire could work. Perhaps they could do something along the lines of the vassalage type relationship the Mongols had. Maybe they can extract extra gold from conquered cities per turn, but those cities are far more likely to revolt if not enough troops are stationed there, or something.

Also a more distinct visual style would help. For instance they could be a race of sentient horses(a la Gulliver's travels)! Okay that's a bit of a joke, but something more interesting with their horses would be good.

What if you give the Hippus a unique Resource "Mercenary Contract" which enables the one buying to build mercs. The only Problem would be to get the AI to understand what's going on so they would pay a reasonable price.

As Hippus is the mercenary, how about making all other civs negate diplo bonus/penalties? So other civs attitude to Hippus always 0 (thus Cautious)? And this will enable the Hippus to go for the highest bidder, without suffering diplo penalties for war-ally, declaring war etc?

I don't know how to do this, though. Probably involving some DLL work :D

What if you give the Hippus a unique Resource "Mercenary Contract" which enables the one buying to build mercs. The only Problem would be to get the AI to understand what's going on so they would pay a reasonable price.

Ooooh. Interesting idea, either a strategic resource (which alone permits the building of a unit type) or something a little less than that (which maybe gives you a % discount on building certain units or buildings, like how Scions build cheaper units with access to luxuries or artifacts and whatnot). The palace could spawn one such resource, and some kind of mercenary camp building/wonder/whatever could produce more later in the game. Still would need balance on the other side though, a detriment, like possibly diplo modifiers for owning that resource (an equivalent to "You use Death mana!" except more like "You're Mercenary Scum!"), which could extend to whoever traded to obtain it too, negative happy faces for having the resource, the resource causing "mutations" like Chaos mana does, except the mutation is always something negative from a short list of mercenary-themed promotions, which could include that Scion Centeni "unreadiness" promotion (may have name wrong) with a Bonus Pay spell to temporarily cure it, something like a renamed "Crazed" designed simply to send them off enraged on the hunt for easy prey, something like "Estrangement" or whatever Jotnar trolls suffer from that causes them to go barb for good after awhile, etc.

Anyhow, yeah, resources are typically something the AI does seek in trades or tributes, so maybe this would be a somewhat understood thing to see traded. Just like only the Kurios can have fine clothes and jewelery with the appropriate resources and buildings, maybe the Hippus being so focussed on military related trading could somehow be reflected in trading their know-how, since actual unit trading/gifting seems like too big a project. As long as there's a downside too though (high hammer national wonder? sacrifice a great commander to make a "Hippus Command Post which generates the special resource? negative promos hitting their empire for embracing a mercenary philosophy), as again, the Hippus are pretty darn strong as is.

I think it should double/triple the "You traded with our worst enemy" diplomacy penalty and if you think one special resource is too powerful, take a palace mana away. But I think the problem is more on the receiving end, this would be a way to really help someone in a war, its like giving someone in a medieval war in vanilla iron. And we should think about what happens to the merc units when you stop trading the contract.

that and the fact that the hippus already have only two manas. removing one more would be a bit too much...

I think it feels a bit strange to make a civilization of mercenaries actually have the special ability to hire mercenaries- when in fact they are supposed to be the mercenaries themselves.

It would probably be better to attempt to reflect their sellsword nature in gameplay somehow, such as allowing them to join into ongoing wars between factions with very few, if any, diplomatic penalties and actually making other leaders pay them to fight on their side.

In addition, if the Hippus had joined into a war between other factions, supporting one side it would probably be interesting if they were paid for the units they killed, with substantial bounties paid for capturing cities, and that those cities they took over while flying the banner of the other faction was handed over to their employer.

In gameplay this means that the Hippus would be sticking their grubby little fingers into every little war imaginable and earn gold and experience as they undermine the war-effort of their employer's enemy, all whilst suffering very little diplomatic penalties and not being subject to whatever applicable sansaction there might be from other factions.

I believe that would be a much more interesting and flavourful approach than simply mercenaries hiring mercenaries. Everyone hires mercenaries- whereas mercenaries are unique because they sell themselves.

yes, I fully agree with this and the Hippus+ Module will be very similar to this. From the new Hippus Concept section:

[H1]Hippus - Horselords[\H1][PARAGRAPH:1]
All Mounted Units of the Hippus are stronger thanks to the Horselords Promotion. Their Hero Magnadine appears in the lategame and can recruit one mercenary unit a turn. With a stable present in a city the Hippus can equip melee, recon and disciple with Warhorses, which increase their mobility and allow them to keep up with the Hippus army.
[H2]Mercenaries[\H2]
Once Trade is discovered the Hippus may enlist their Soldiers as mercenaries. As mercenaries they are fully controlled by the AI and their behavior depends on which specialisation is given to them when they are enlisted. Tip: Raiding Mercenaries enlisted in the same city will form groups of up to 10 units so carefully enlist units to make those raiding groups deadly.
[H2]Mercenary Warfare[\H2]
Whenever a War is declared the Hippus can choose to support the weaker side with their mercenaries. For this the Hippus do not have to openly declare war, the Mercenaries will do warfare on their own. Everytime they pillage, kill or liberate a city the Hippus player gets some gold.

sounds great, awesome to see a Hippus+ module in development! one thing I'd add is Warhorses for Arcane units as well, otherwise their mages will be the only ones having trouble keeping up with the rest of the army ;)

Gekko;9226930']sounds great, awesome to see a Hippus+ module in development! one thing I'd add is Warhorses for Arcane units as well, otherwise their mages will be the only ones having trouble keeping up with the rest of the army ;)

are there any art files for mounted human arcane units?

Avahz's module has Storm riders who are definitely mounted mages, so yes. he also has a couple nice ideas which would fit perfectly in with Hippus+ imho. guaranteed access to mounted mercs for example, me likey. it hurts bad when someone snags the guild of the nine otherwise.

Avahz's module has Storm riders who are definitely mounted mages

Merging the models is rather easy, but do they have a mage ranged animation? Afaik there currently are only animation patterns for mounted melee and mounted archers, so unless he made custom animations they may look a bit off in combat.

dunno, but who doesn't use quick combat anyway? I mean you sure got better stuff to do than watching 200 units figthing it off individually, since ANYTHING (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RFL-XUBv68) is better than that :lol:

Earlier in the thread, Esvath mentioned his fantasy units including what is billed as a Hippus Mounted Mage, I've seen screenshots but never seen it in "action."

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13844

***

Anyhow, Sephi's comments on how the new Hippus+ will look sounds interesting.

I assume Warhorses cost $$, along the lines of equipment.

As to Mercenaries, it will be interesting to see if the benefits balance against the fact that your units (whether fresh or "nurtured") have to be donated to AI control. I have visions of a stack of "something like Enraged" Hippus Horse Archers being chased around by a normal, player controlled Hippus stack of buffers / healers. Mages trying to catch up with a crazy stack in order to Regenerate them, Blur them, Windwall them, whatever (using a variety of tesb's "combo" spells will come in useful here, for the rare chances you can "catch" your mercenaries), or priests chasing them to cure disease, heal, whatever. I guess there will be something special about these units that makes them somehow "always hostile" to whoever is their current enemy, almost like hidden nationality, but maybe ONLY to a war target. Will be neat to see in play, looking forward to it.

wow, those units look great :goodjob:

yes, the mercenaries will be only hostile to their war target. It's not done via promotion, they form a minor civ and are visible easy to distinguish. Also means you do not have to pay support costs for them, they get their gold by looting, raiding, whatever.

You said at the beginning that you wanted them to focus on money rather than science and while it would require a lot of work that made me think that it might be interesting to give them the inability to gain science in the normal way just as the fallow civilization's can't gain population through food. There would of course have to be an alternate method which was balanced, but it would certainly make them feel different.

[H2]Mercenary Warfare[\H2]
Whenever a War is declared the Hippus can choose to support the weaker side with their mercenaries. For this the Hippus do not have to openly declare war, the Mercenaries will do warfare on their own. Everytime they pillage, kill or liberate a city the Hippus player gets some gold.

or kill a unit?

Gekko;9227077']dunno, but who doesn't use quick combat anyway?

I dont use quick combat, and I rarely engage in stack wars.

My mounted adept (and mage and archmage) don't have combat animation but the idle animation involve conjuring fire, so I think they are sufficient :D

I like the mercenary concept but since it involve minor civ (which is unavailable in vanilla FfH) I can't steal it. Too bad :lol: I'll stick with mounted adept (+1 move, no free promo) for my Hippus flavor then :)

Go Hippus, go!

What about a spell or promotion for gold that allows you to mount/dismount your non cav units, with the cav units staying horselords. So your whole army is cav mobile, but the horsemen and such are better at it?

or kill a unit?

yes, killing units also gives gold. And you can enlist units as body hunter mercenaries who are speciliazed at searching for easy to kill victims.

Any way to get those raiding groups back?

Sounds interesting.They still aren't quite acting like mercenaries, since the "hiring" civ isn't actually playing them, but it's a lot closer then they are now.

Also, how with this interact with national units limits?

Sounds like a very interesting mechanic!

Any chance it could be expanded a bit and given to all civs? Having the AI handle the army micromanagement have been a dream of mine for a long time... I realize it would be quite a bit of work though. :) With the framework there it should be possible for me to do something like that on my own...