View Full Version : Wonders and Projects


The Capo
Mar 14, 2010, 10:19 AM
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4566/diplotitle.png

WONDERS AND PROJECTS

This thread is for discussing the new wonders and projects that will be added to Diplomacy II.

The Capo
Mar 14, 2010, 10:20 AM
LIST OF NEW WONDERS/PROJECTS

This is a list of new wonders and projects that will be in Diplomacy II, as well as their functions and requirements, they are not listed in any particular order:

CERN Large Hadron Collider (wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider)):

One free Great Scientist
One free technology
100% Scientific output in city
Can change three citizens to scientists
+4 Culture, +3 GPP (scientist)
Requirements: Four laboratories, Fiber Optics and Superconductors


Flavian Amphitheatre (wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavian_Amphitheatre)):

Either +1 Happiness or +1 Gold Per Colosseum throughout your Empire
Gives builder a 20/25% chance to create a rival's UU
+6 Culture, +2 GPP (engineer)
Requires Construction, and a Colosseum in the city that builds it


King Richard's Crusade:

+4 Culture, +2 GPP (prophet)
Automatically spreads your state religion upon city conquest
Requires Monarchy, State Religion


Leonardo's Workshop:

+4 Culture, +2 GPP (engineer)
50% money required to upgrade units
Requires Paper and Engineering


Machu Picchu (wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machu_Picchu)):

+2 Gold, +4 Culture, +1 GPP (engineer)
Adds +1 food, +2 hammers, and +1 gold on every mountain your Empire controls when t he wonder is built. It also adds "Machu Picchu" on one of the tiles in the city's radius (+1 food and +6 gold on that tile).
Requires Code of Laws, and a Peak tile in the city's radius


Sun Tzu's Art of War (wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu%27s_Art_of_War)):

+4 Culture, +2 GPP (artist)
+25% Great General Emergence
New units receive +2 XP in all cities
Requires Literature and Monarchy


The Sydney Opera House (wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Opera_House)):

+10 Culture, +2 GPP (engineer)
+1 Free Artist
+1 From Theatres
Free Great Artist when built
Double Production speed with stone (for some reason)
Requires Radio, and a harbor in the city that builds it.


Trafalgar Square (wikipedia articles: Trafalgar Square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Square), the Battle of Trafalgar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar)):

+6 Culture, +2 GPP
Naval units receive +4 XP
Builds naval units 100% faster
Requires Harbor and Military Science


This list, like the mod, is a WIP, so things can change. If you see anything questionable or would like more info feel free to ask.

veBear
Mar 17, 2010, 08:34 AM
This is a modern wonder must:
Svalbard Global Seed Vault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault)
Bonuses:
- Reduces chances of Global Warming within owners cultural borders by 25%
- Reduces chances of Global Warming for all players (exept from the owner, which have his own, better bonus as mentioned above) by 10%
- +1:)/:health:

The Capo
Mar 17, 2010, 09:32 AM
This thread isn't really "ready to go" yet. I still have to put up the list of new wonders, but we'll take your suggestion into consideration once I start this thread up. Sounds like it could be a good idea though.

The Capo
Mar 18, 2010, 09:56 PM
I promise to update this thread as soon as I get the Flavian Amphitheatre working. Speaking of which, if anyone has any python expertise could they please visit THIS THREAD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9011888#post9011888) and help me out?

:goodjob:

Triver
Mar 19, 2010, 02:40 AM
Borobudur.
+10:culture:
Can turn 3 citizens into Priest.
City more likely to generate Great Artist.
Can only be built on Medieval and earlier starts.

The Capo
Mar 21, 2010, 10:06 AM
I am having difficulties getting the new Flavian Amphitheatre to work. I'm going to try a few things EmperorFool is suggesting, but it looks like the UU wonder is going to have to be scrapped. :(

The Capo
Mar 22, 2010, 04:49 PM
Finalmente!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=247283&d=1269297957

I got that damned Flavian Amphitheatre to work. Which is awesome. Now I all I have to do is wait on GeoModder and the playtest will be ready to go. I suppose in the meantime I can add a couple new units and fix that Franco Issue.

But since this is working, I think we discussed possibly adding a similar wonder for UBs. Has anybody thought of an idea for a good model?

And I'll try and update this thread with the list of wonders and effects within the next day or two. :goodjob:

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 08:52 AM
Does anyone remember what we agreed on for the Flavian Amphitheatre's stats?

TAdF mentioned something about giving each Colosseum a money boost, but I don't know if that should be it. I was thinking something like:

+4 culture, +2 GPP (Engineer)
+1 Happiness per colosseum
20% Chance to build rival UUs


Is that good enough? And also how do I add +1 Happiness per colosseum?

veBear
Mar 23, 2010, 09:02 AM
Does anyone remember what we agreed on for the Flavian Amphitheatre's stats?

TAdF mentioned something about giving each Colosseum a money boost, but I don't know if that should be it. I was thinking something like:

+4 culture, +2 GPP (Engineer)
+1 Happiness per colosseum
20% Chance to build rival UUs


Is that good enough? And also how do I add +1 Happiness per colosseum?

The stas look good enough i think... and....

20% Chance to build rival UUs

that is totally awsome :goodjob:

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 10:43 AM
And I think there was a debate about the oselete tech. Here's what I'll say from experience with the wonder. Firstly, it does a pretty good job at the sporadic part of it, unlike the slaves (which seem to come all the time, I gotta fix that) the wonder does produce units at around a 20-25% rate. So it isn't that overpowered.

The other thing is, the benefits rely on how many and which civs you are playing against. So if you play on a smaller size map you will have less options, if you play on a larger size map against more civs you will have more of an opportunity with this wonder.

Considering all of those things what should obselete the Flavian Amphitheatre? I was thinking Gunpowder, but some people have said to make it later, or have no obselete tech. Thoughts?

veBear
Mar 23, 2010, 10:58 AM
I would say Nationalism, as this renewed the form of armies, with mercanaries no longer that popular and armies standing from the general population, this would make much sence.

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 11:20 AM
I would say Nationalism, as this renewed the form of armies, with mercanaries no longer that popular and armies standing from the general population, this would make much sence.

I like that.

But keep the comments coming, I know a few people didn't want it to obselete.

AbsintheRed
Mar 23, 2010, 11:49 AM
Yeah you remember correctly. For example Edgecrusher and myself were against obsolation, because of the civs with late UUs.
If you end up in a game with no early UUd civs, then the whole wonder have no point

And IIRC TAdF wanted the + gold from Colosseums. I think he is right here, this may be a better bonus than the +1 happiness, as Colosseums already add 1 happy faces in the first place.
If you think of Arenas, either of the ancient Amphitheatres in Rome or the modern Sport Complexes today, increased commerce caused by the popultaion was/is always one of the main reasons of using them...


Btw, I wrote Arenas. I suggested this earlier, and you was thinking of changing the name. It suits the various colosseum type buildings much better. For example Brazil's UB is Estadio de Futball, and a colosseum replacement. Arena's would sound much better, and not just here for the Mayan Ball Court and other similar UBs too...
And of course this means we could rename the UU wonder to Colosseum or Colosseo, the more commonly used name for Flavian Amphitheatre :)

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 12:12 PM
The naming part I was just going to wait on, it is really easy to do and isn't as important as getting the stats right. I guess we can do the +1 gold per colosseum/arena/stadium thing, I just don't know how to implement that though.

EDIT: Brazil's UB is not a football stadium in Diplomacy, FYI.

AbsintheRed
Mar 23, 2010, 12:33 PM
Oh, sry then, I don't have Diplomacy I. Unfortunately you never got there to upload it again after I came to the site :)
I also don't know how to add the +1 gold/colosseum/arena/stadium, we should wait for Xyth with that.
If it's hard or not possible we can still go with the +1 happiness, it's a good idea too, I just prefer the other one.

Btw, if i think of it Stadium is an even better name then Arena, actually I may suggested that in the first place a few months ago :)

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 01:25 PM
Oh, sry then, I don't have Diplomacy I. Unfortunately you never got there to upload it again after I came to the site :)
I also don't know how to add the +1 gold/colosseum/arena/stadium, we should wait for Xyth with that.
If it's hard or not possible we can still go with the +1 happiness, it's a good idea too, I just prefer the other one.

Btw, if i think of it Stadium is an even better name then Arena, actually I may suggested that in the first place a few months ago :)

Yeah, at least in the United States we generally use "Arena" for enclosed venues and "Stadium" for open venues. Like a Basketball Arena or a Football Stadium. Football Arena and Basketball Stadium wouldn't sound right to us.

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 02:43 PM
Okay, I have finally added the list. I did forget to put the obseletes, but I gotta get ready to go in a bit so I'll do that later.

Xyth
Mar 23, 2010, 06:11 PM
Well I don't know for sure but from looking through the API I think both +1 happiness and +1 gold are doable in Python, albeit inefficiently. There'd need to be a check when the Wonder is first built that applies the bonus to all existing Colosseums and also a separate check every time a building is built, to see if it is a Colosseum and whether that player has the wonder or not. Best to check in the SDK/Python forums though, changing the bonuses on buildings is not an area I have experience in yet.

EDIT: If going for +1 happiness, it would probably be much simpler to give it to every city, whether they have a Colosseum or not. That can be done in xml and doing it only for Colosseums is a lot of Python for a pretty minor aspect of the wonder.

The Capo
Mar 23, 2010, 09:59 PM
Well I don't know for sure but from looking through the API I think both +1 happiness and +1 gold are doable in Python, albeit inefficiently. There'd need to be a check when the Wonder is first built that applies the bonus to all existing Colosseums and also a separate check every time a building is built, to see if it is a Colosseum and whether that player has the wonder or not. Best to check in the SDK/Python forums though, changing the bonuses on buildings is not an area I have experience in yet.

EDIT: If going for +1 happiness, it would probably be much simpler to give it to every city, whether they have a Colosseum or not. That can be done in xml and doing it only for Colosseums is a lot of Python for a pretty minor aspect of the wonder.

Hmm, alright, well this can be changed in the playtest after next, we still need to iron all of this out. :crazyeye:

cybrxkhan
Mar 24, 2010, 07:36 PM
+1 gold per a building is not even necessary through python. All you need is to make an event, through xml. Although that means there will be the little pop-up screen, which some may not want (personally I wouldn't care less), but the advantage is that you don't have to take a risk with the python voodoo.

The Capo
Mar 24, 2010, 07:49 PM
+1 gold per a building is not even necessary through python. All you need is to make an event, through xml. Although that means there will be the little pop-up screen, which some may not want (personally I wouldn't care less), but the advantage is that you don't have to take a risk with the python voodoo.

I think you mentioned earlier that you wanted to use the event system more dynamically, and I was wondering a few things about this:

1) Can I do +1 gold with an event but not have an alert/pop-up or does that necessarily have to occur.

2) Could I use the event system and pair it up with projects? If this is the case what are my limitations with these events?

cybrxkhan
Mar 24, 2010, 07:56 PM
From what I know -

1. I think theoretically it is possible, through python (I'm not sure though, The J would (obviously) be the one to ask). At the least, through XML, you can choose whether or not to have the World Display Messages (whatever it's called) or not, you know, the message that pops up near the top of your screen when an event happens. So my point - at least with XML you can prevent the world message from popping up, but if you wish to remove the actual "Oh no, event X has happened! What shall we do? Choose either choice 1 or choice 2!" message will still be there.

2. For projects, I'm not sure if that's doable. So far as I know it is not, though you may be able to do it with python, not so sure on that one.


So basically, again, to reiterate, the problem with having an event-based wonder is that at the worst there will be the little pop-up that asks the player what course of action to take (in the case of a wonder, there would be one option of course, which would implement the effects). In WoL the awkwardness of this is somewhat alleviated as I am intending to add several wonders with event-based effects, but I think you probably may not rely too much on these event-based wonders, so, yeah, it may be a little awkward.

The Capo
Mar 24, 2010, 08:34 PM
Well, what I was considering doing in that case was having a "monument" available with each project. So that when the project is finished, if I have to have a pop-up, I could at least create a dummy building so there's an excuse for the pop-up. So it will give a blurb about what happened, like "blah blah blah, women can now vote, blah blah blah" and then give you two options, one would be the regular effects plus you purchase a monument (which will cost a decent amount of gold) that adds X amount of culture to the city, or you just get the regular effects. I don't know, it is still a new idea, and as far as I know there are not many mods with a bunch of projects in them.

AbsintheRed
Mar 25, 2010, 05:54 AM
If you go that way, I could even imagine solving the UU wonder this way. You can choose to have +1 happiness or +1 gold to your colosseums/stadiums.

The pop-up could be something like this:
The Flavian Amphitheatre/Great Colosseum is finally finished to represent the glory of our civilization:
- Let it be a symbol and inspiration of organizing even greater events in our colosseums/stadiums (+1 happy)
- No need of greater events, just use up the increased attendance and turn it into profit (+1 gold)

The Capo
Mar 25, 2010, 12:41 PM
If you go that way, I could even imagine solving the UU wonder this way. You can choose to have +1 happiness or +1 gold to your colosseums/stadiums.

The pop-up could be something like this:
The Flavian Amphitheatre/Great Colosseum is finally finished to represent the glory of our civilization:
- Let it be a symbol and inspiration of organizing even greater events in our colosseums/stadiums (+1 happy)
- No need of greater events, just use up the increased attendance and turn it into profit (+1 gold)

That's a great idea!

cybrxkhan, how possible is this?

cybrxkhan
Mar 25, 2010, 04:53 PM
^That is certainly possible, and pretty easy to do.

As for the projects, I don't really know if that's possible, since the projects are a different category. I'm betting that you should look into python, but if that doesn't work, well...

The Capo
Mar 25, 2010, 04:55 PM
^That is certainly possible, and pretty easy to do.

As for the projects, I don't really know if that's possible, since the projects are a different category. I'm betting that you should look into python, but if that doesn't work, well...

To avoid adding more new material than is necessary, I think I'm going to ditch the idea for projects, and maybe try to integrate them into the Deluxe edition.

AbsintheRed
Mar 26, 2010, 11:41 PM
To avoid adding more new material than is necessary, I think I'm going to ditch the idea for projects, and maybe try to integrate them into the Deluxe edition.

That doesn't sound good :eek:
We had some -great- project ideas

I would certanly vote for adding them, anyhow it's possible (even in python)

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 27, 2010, 08:34 AM
Question, do you know the Wonder in Civ 3 - Theory of Evolution? and how it gi ves a civ 2 free techs? Is it possible to implement that in your mod or in game itself?

The Capo
Mar 27, 2010, 08:40 AM
There is already the CERN Large Hadron Collider wonder which gives a civ one technology and a free Great Scientist, I think that is pretty much the same thing in a way.

TheKingOfBigOz
Mar 28, 2010, 07:07 AM
Is the CERN Large Hadron Collider the thing that was suppose to destory the universe few months back?)

The Capo
Mar 28, 2010, 10:08 AM
Is the CERN Large Hadron Collider the thing that was suppose to destory the universe few months back?)

I think so, but there is a link to its wikipedia article on the first page (I think second post) if you want to know more.

The Capo
Apr 19, 2010, 07:45 AM
Well, the playtest has had its bumps so far. :(

This is probably the first playtest where there has been a real performance hit and I was thinking maybe we should take out one of the wonders because of this. I was thinking Machu Picchu since it has the most code and doesn't actually work the way it was originally intended to work. After all; "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

What does everyone think?

Personally, I'd rather not take it out, but if it helps with performance I think I might be all for it.

cybrxkhan
Apr 19, 2010, 12:46 PM
You could just give it an effect that isn't so code-heavy.

AbsintheRed
Apr 19, 2010, 02:55 PM
Before deciding on any of the wonders, you should try Xyth's suggestions:

I had a quick look through some of the Python you've added. It seems you've re-enabled 3 python callbacks that are off by default (because they slow down the game):

USE_CANNOT_CONSTRUCT_CALLBACK
USE_CAN_BUILD_CALLBACK
USE_ON_UNIT_CREATED_CALLBACK

I'd suggest temporarily disabling them to see how much speed difference it makes. I'm assuming that the Flavian Amphitheatre uses these, does anything else? These Python callbacks should really only be enabled for major features, especially the first two.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the slavery code is a part of the issue. It's called every single time there is combat, whenever a city changes owner, and every time a city updates it's production.

They're all in Assets/XML/PythonCallbackDefines.xml. The ones set to 1 are enabled, the ones set to 0 are not. Switching them off shouldn't cause any errors, just several sections of pythons won't ever get run. I'm not quite sure which sections these are without a more thorough examination of everything you've added.

I haven't got time to properly test it myself atm but switching these off temporarily should give some indication of how much speed could be recovered without having to comment out huge sections of python.

EDIT: Would be worth looking at the Next War compilation you used originally, see if any of these callbacks were enabled for that or if all were enabled subsequently.

EDIT2: Just saw your PM. I'm a bit busy this weekend but I'll have a look through and see if I can figure out what uses what.

Actually it looks like it's much easier than I expected to work out what uses which callback. Here's the list:

USE_CANNOT_CONSTRUCT_CALLBACK
- Used by Next War for arcologies and shielding
- Used by Machu Picchu

And unless I'm misunderstanding something it looks like USE_CAN_BUILD_CALLBACK and USE_ON_UNIT_CREATED_CALLBACK are not used by anything at all! Definitely switch these two off and hopefully that will see a decent speed increase.

The Capo
Apr 19, 2010, 02:55 PM
You could just give it an effect that isn't so code-heavy.

That's true, but I am always reminded of something a good modder once told me when I began modding. He said that a problem many mods have is that they add too many things for the sake of adding them. Examples would be a really good looking unit, that has no real place in the mod, is added simply because the unit looks good. I think the same rule applies here. I wanted Machu Picchu in because it is a unique wonder from an area of the world that has no wonders. Which is fine, and in and of itself does not go against what this modder told me.

The problem is, gameplay shouldn't suffer just to add something cool. And in a sense this wonder may be a bit unnecessary. I'm not sure why the mod isn't performing well right now, it was performing perfectly fine for me up until the last few changes I made/right before I released the playtest. Perhaps it is the graphics (which I'll try to cut down on for the next version), maybe it is too many leaders, maybe too much python. Maybe a combination. Either way, we're getting to a point where the mod is nearly finished, and this would be a good place to start putting things on the chopping block.

The first thing I'm going to do, which will probably be unpopular, is remove the super-barbarian civs from the list of plans. I MIGHT still stick with Pirates, I'm not sure, but the Horde and Sea People are out. On a related note, I am going to do away with Barbarian flavored graphics. They don't serve that great a purpose, and since none of the vanilla units are used in this mod (other than the random Infantry or Marine) I don't see a big problem with doing this. It may not make much of a difference in the size and performance of the mod, but every little bit helps. Also certain mesh groups (Celtic, Chinese and Roman archers for example) will be cut down to one model rather than a group of two or three. So over the next few days (as I add the new traits and what not) I'll start shaving off some of the graphics, and POSSIBLY a leader here and there (although this is doubtful).

The Capo
Apr 19, 2010, 02:56 PM
@ Absinthe: Well, I already have, and while the performance has improved there is still a lot of lag and sporadic MAFs. :(

AbsintheRed
Apr 19, 2010, 03:02 PM
But all these things were already in the 3rd playtest, which had no problems with performance
Before you are thinking of chopping anything, we should really find the cause in the newly added things and change that

I doubt the barbarian flavored units, the archers, and other small but cool things really mean anything in performance...

The Capo
Apr 19, 2010, 03:06 PM
That's true, but they can pile upon eachother and create the issues. So basically, the wonders must be the problem. I think wonders that have code that "fires" often, like Machu Picchu for example (which happens every turn), might be the problem. So maybe I should ditch Machu Picchu for now and see how that works.

EDIT: I just want to clarify something I said earlier because as I re-read it, I could see how one might get confused. I don't mean there will be one archer in the group, I meant there will be one type of archer in the group. Notice how the Romans have one archer with a helmet, and two without. Well I could cut that down to just three of the same archer model. Again, it won't make a huge difference, but if I do this with like ten units it will add up.

AbsintheRed
Apr 19, 2010, 03:10 PM
@ Absinthe: Well, I already have, and while the performance has improved there is still a lot of lag and sporadic MAFs. :(

That's really unfortunate :(
You tried to disable all 3 things Xyth suggested, or just the first 2 ones?

That's true, but they can pile upon eachother and create the issues. So basically, the wonders must be the problem. I think wonders that have code that "fires" often, like Machu Picchu for example (which happens every turn), might be the problem. So maybe I should ditch Machu Picchu for now and see how that works.

Yeah, that might be it. According to Xyth the 3rd python option was used only by Machu Picchu and Next War

Maybe first try to disable the 3rd option too
And if it still don't work, try it with removing Machu Picchu for now, just to find if really that is/was the cause

Xyth
Apr 19, 2010, 05:39 PM
Was the slavery code in the last playtest? I think I mentioned it already but I think it's a candidate for slowing things down. It adds code to 3 functions:

onCombatResult
- Called every time units fight. Probably not too bad as the added code is short.

onCityAcquired
- Called when a city changes hands. Doesn't happen often enough to be a problem

onCityDoTurn
- This function seems to be related to a city updating it's production each turn. I don't know how often it's called exactly but if we assume at least once for every city on the map every turn... that's a lot of calls. The code attached is short though, so I don't know.

If switching off the callbacks isn't helping much then I'd first suggest playing a game with both Machu Picchu and the slavery code removed (in addition to switched off callbacks).

While it can definitely cause slowdowns, Python is very unlikely to be causing memory issues though. If people are getting MAFs then that suggests there is simply too much art. That could possibly be the cause of the slowdowns too as when your computer doesn't have enough memory to do what it needs to do it starts using the harddrive instead and makes the entire system significantly slower.

(Btw I can't test this myself as Macs handle memory completely different to PCs, any results I get aren't comparable to what you guys will get).

The Almighty dF
Apr 19, 2010, 08:48 PM
That could possibly be the cause of the slowdowns too as when your computer doesn't have enough memory to do what it needs to do it starts using the harddrive instead and makes the entire system significantly slower.

Actually, it doesn't matter how much RAM you have available. It's a really, really awful design flaw with Civ4. It only looks for so much free RAM, then it breaks once x amount is being used.

That's what the Civ5 announcement "no more MAFs" really means. They realized that system was retarded.

Xyth
Apr 19, 2010, 08:53 PM
Actually, it doesn't matter how much RAM you have available. It's a really, really awful design flaw with Civ4. It only looks for so much free RAM, then it breaks once x amount is being used.

That's what the Civ5 announcement "no more MAFs" really means. They realized that system was retarded.

Ugh that's terrible. Despite it's numerous missing features I'm very glad that the Mac version of Civ4 got that part right!

The Capo
Apr 20, 2010, 02:32 PM
Yeah, that is definitely something annoying about Civ, especially since the game is so moddable. I really have NO IDEA why they opted to go in this direction.

From my understanding, the game itself will close up after using 2 GB of memory. So it doesn't even matter how good your computer is, when it hits that threshold it will MAF out on you. Is there any way at all to edit this or is it just something we have to deal with?

The Capo
Apr 20, 2010, 02:43 PM
Was the slavery code in the last playtest? I think I mentioned it already but I think it's a candidate for slowing things down. It adds code to 3 functions:

onCombatResult
- Called every time units fight. Probably not too bad as the added code is short.

onCityAcquired
- Called when a city changes hands. Doesn't happen often enough to be a problem

onCityDoTurn
- This function seems to be related to a city updating it's production each turn. I don't know how often it's called exactly but if we assume at least once for every city on the map every turn... that's a lot of calls. The code attached is short though, so I don't know.

If switching off the callbacks isn't helping much then I'd first suggest playing a game with both Machu Picchu and the slavery code removed (in addition to switched off callbacks).

While it can definitely cause slowdowns, Python is very unlikely to be causing memory issues though. If people are getting MAFs then that suggests there is simply too much art. That could possibly be the cause of the slowdowns too as when your computer doesn't have enough memory to do what it needs to do it starts using the harddrive instead and makes the entire system significantly slower.

(Btw I can't test this myself as Macs handle memory completely different to PCs, any results I get aren't comparable to what you guys will get).

Slavery might be an issue, the only problem there is that I can't really remove any of the Slavery stuff. That is something I really want in the mod, and I intend on keeping it. Machu Picchu, on the other hand, could go. I know, it is a cool wonder, I like it a lot. But ultimately I am not sure how important to the mod it really is. What I think I'll do first is put in your new traits, see how much of a difference that makes first. Then I'll decide on Machu Picchu.

In the meantime, do you see any way I could make the slavery stuff work more efficiently?

The Almighty dF
Apr 20, 2010, 02:45 PM
Yeah, that is definitely something annoying about Civ, especially since the game is so moddable. I really have NO IDEA why they opted to go in this direction.

From my understanding, the game itself will close up after using 2 GB of memory. So it doesn't even matter how good your computer is, when it hits that threshold it will MAF out on you. Is there any way at all to edit this or is it just something we have to deal with?

You can't do much on the mod-end, but I think there are some workarounds that you (the player) can use to trick Civ into using more RAM. I just can't recall specifics.

Also I'll miss Machu Pichu but... ho god is it powerful. Might be for the best that it's getting the boot. This became my beeline wonder.

The Capo
Apr 20, 2010, 03:29 PM
You can't do much on the mod-end, but I think there are some workarounds that you (the player) can use to trick Civ into using more RAM. I just can't recall specifics.

Also I'll miss Machu Pichu but... ho god is it powerful. Might be for the best that it's getting the boot. This became my beeline wonder.

Machu Picchu was definitely a good wonder, it could really make your country pretty powerful, especially if you have a lot of mountains around (I play the Perfect World map script, which tends to have a lot of mountain chains).

But, I don't think it is really a necessary wonder in the end, and if it is a decision between Machu Picchu and game performance, that is really not a tough decision at all.

Xyth
Apr 20, 2010, 05:03 PM
Slavery might be an issue, the only problem there is that I can't really remove any of the Slavery stuff. That is something I really want in the mod, and I intend on keeping it. Machu Picchu, on the other hand, could go. I know, it is a cool wonder, I like it a lot. But ultimately I am not sure how important to the mod it really is. What I think I'll do first is put in your new traits, see how much of a difference that makes first. Then I'll decide on Machu Picchu.

In the meantime, do you see any way I could make the slavery stuff work more efficiently?

Yeah the slavery stuff is pretty cool and worth keeping if we can. I need to learn more about how onCityDoTurn is called to know if there's a more efficient way of doing that part of the code. I'll ask in the Python/SDK forum.

The traits should have a negligible effect on turn speed, the python for them is not called very often at all, and in some cases just once.

The Capo
Apr 24, 2010, 10:58 AM
Well, I removed Machu Picchu and started a game as China. So far everything is running much better than it did previously. So I am begining to think Machu Picchu was the issue, although I should probably play the whole game before jumping to conclusions.

If this is the case, Machu Picchu has to be removed. There's no way I can defend the wonder if it is causing that much lag and performance issues.

The Almighty dF
Apr 24, 2010, 05:55 PM
Well, I removed Machu Picchu and started a game as China. So far everything is running much better than it did previously. So I am begining to think Machu Picchu was the issue, although I should probably play the whole game before jumping to conclusions.

If this is the case, Machu Picchu has to be removed. There's no way I can defend the wonder if it is causing that much lag and performance issues.

Since Machu Picchu's out, suppose it'll be replaced by another new wonder?
There's still Great Zimbabwe, which you'd wanted to add in. Also there's art for a Nazca Lines wonder. Either one'd be neat.

The Capo
Apr 25, 2010, 08:57 AM
Well, just because I am removing Machu Picchu doesn't mean I am replacing it with anything. We'll see though, right now I want to finish the game I am playing with MP removed to see if I ever encounter a MAF error.