http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4566/diplotitle.png

ART & MUSIC

This thread is all about the flavor! Here we discuss any art or music involved in the game. This can also be used to discuss things like the interface and flags as well. This is easily my favorite area of modding, so please give suggestions and feedback. :goodjob:

SCREENSHOTS AND IMAGES

This will be a place where I generally post images and screenshots for the mod. Some will be full-on screens, some will be nifskope shots. But it will be a good place to get some visual updates on Diplomacy II. This will be updated regularly:


http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/celticscottishunits_OqW.jpg
Industrial Celtic Units (Grenadier, Cavalry, Cannon, Rifleman)



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245949&d=1268412183
South-Pacific Citystyle work-in-progress



http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5041/henryviii.jpg
"I'm Henry VIII, I am, I am..."



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=247283&d=1269297957
The Flavian Amphitheatre in Madrid trains a Mayan-style Holkan instead of a Spearman!



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=247827&d=1269760048
Boudica has a brand-new ride... (new Celtic UU, the Cidainh)



http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/330/honoluluc.jpg
English Warriors get some sun in Honolulu



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263554&d=1284225278
Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263555&d=1284225278
Middle-Eastern Great Merchant strikes it rich in Mutal



http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4880/flagsbyerapreview2.jpg
The Israeli Defense Force throughout the ages...


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=265914&d=1285822831
The Great Buddha



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=268449&d=1286924961
Northern European Great Merchant, Renaissance-era



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=277215&stc=1&d=1293642726
Some New Russian/Slavic Units Courtesy of Bakuel!



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=282883&stc=1&d=1297796293
Byzantine Empress Theodora



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=288398&stc=1&d=1303760417
An Iroquois Shaman in Cayuga



http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=289109&stc=1&d=1304528514
Some new MesoAmerican Units!

I think the Inca flag should be the now-infamous gay rights flag. Although that may spark a remark like "Vortilex, are you gay or something?" Here are my reasons:

The modern-day Cuzco flag is a rainbow.
The Spanish noticed that the Incas carried a banner with them that was roughly square, and had a rainbow on it.
The protesters to governments in Peru and Bolivia have a similar flag, although it is a checkerboard rainbow pattern. It's kind of like this: There is one normal rainbow column, then a column where red is the second block and violet is the top, then a third column where red is the third block, violet is the second, and blue is on top, etc. until there have been seven colors.

FYI, I'm not gay, in case someone was going to through my above rhetorical question at me :)

I think the Inca flag should be the now-infamous gay rights flag. Although that may spark a remark like "Vortilex, are you gay or something?" Here are my reasons:

The modern-day Cuzco flag is a rainbow.
The Spanish noticed that the Incas carried a banner with them that was roughly square, and had a rainbow on it.
The protesters to governments in Peru and Bolivia have a similar flag, although it is a checkerboard rainbow pattern. It's kind of like this: There is one normal rainbow column, then a column where red is the second block and violet is the top, then a third column where red is the third block, violet is the second, and blue is on top, etc. until there have been seven colors.

FYI, I'm not gay, in case someone was going to through my above rhetorical question at me :)

Dammit! Double-post :mad:

I'm sure it suits the Incas well, but I prefer to have bicolor icons for all of the civs.
Overally it's much better for me that way

While I understand your point Vortilex, Diplomacy II is going to keep the bicolor flags. So no gay pride parades for Pachacuti. Sorry. :goodjob:

Looks like I have more work to do on the unit update! Although I suppose I could save it for the next one (which should be for the playtest after next). Coffee Junkie just updated his Ethnic Mix More (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=337526) mod, and his work is getting much better. You should check out all of the units, but I praticularly like a lot of his Indian ones and some of the Elephants. So expect those to be in soon. I wanted to get the Flavian Amphitheatre in tonight, but I'm thinking maybe I should do another unit update (much smaller, and will easily take less time) with these new ones.

If I do that, I could probably put up a few more unit-images. So what do you guys think? I do have to wait for Geo to finish the new CC for Diplomacy II, and so long as the Flavian Amphitheatre code works (which I have been told it will) that shouldn't take long. So its up to you guys. Do you want me to do more unit updates before the next playtest or not?

(check out the units in his thread and let me know what you think, I won't be using all of them of course, but some of the better ones I will be).

Oh yeah, and I guess since this thread is for "Music" too - The Capo, if you need a certain diplomacy music for a specific leader of civilization, feel free to scream it out.

Thanks cybrxkhan, I have already replaced the Iroquois, Vietnamese, and Polynesian music in my mod with music from a couple of your packs. What I planned on doing was adding at least one more track to each civ. What this would do for me is give me some more options on the modular civs.

When that time comes around you'll probably hear a lot from me, although you have covered a lot of territory with your music packs. So in the off-chance I can't find something in there I want to use, you'll hear from me. :)

I hate the diplomacy musics :(
I can't have them for Hungary, because my civ is not in the main release of the mod and the stupid modular sound loading work this way
I want custom music and sounds for Hungary too :(

I hate the diplomacy musics :(
I can't have them for Hungary, because my civ is not in the main release of the mod and the stupid modular sound loading work this way
I want custom music and sounds for Hungary too :(

Poor baby.

I told you I would also make a Deluxe edition with all of the modular civs, in that they will have order/select sounds and music. But that is for another time. We're talking base-mod now. Stay on topic. ;)

Actually, I have decided to do another quick unit update. Coffee Junkie and Ambrox have come out with some cool units that I should add into the game too, and there aren't too many (at least not as many as I have already done) so I'll put them in and have some screens with some units and maybe some in-game stuff for everyone to drool over. :goodjob:

Well everyone, I have finished the last quick unit update except for one unit: the Carthaginian War Elephant.

It is an important unit, and part of the identity of Carthage, so to me I wanted to make it as good as possible. Right now I have four options, there are reasons for each to be in. I'l give a quick synopsis on my likes and dislikes for each one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=246440&d=1268760729


Ambrox made this one, I like the general form of it, but to me the shield looks a little weak. This could be changed of course.
This one was from Coffee Junkies Ethnic Mix More mod. I like the rider (it matches up with the rest of the Carthaginian set I use), not so sure about the blanket (it looks good, but how Carthaginian is it?), and the shield and carriage are rather boring.
This is just the vanilla/stock-BtS Carthage War Elephant. The only bonus to having this is that the rider matches the Numidian Mercenary, so it doesn't stand out as much.
This is another one from Ambrox, I like the color-scheme and the carriage a lot. The shield and rider could be better/more Carthaginian though.


So what does everyone think?

:thumbsup:

Btw, is anyone interested in rearranging the soundtrack so that, for instance, each piece of music is in the appropriate time frame? i.e., anything by Beethoven is in the Renascence Era, any Gregorian Chant is in the Medieval Era, and expanding the Modern/Future Era soundtracks to include less classical music and more, I dunno, some modern bands. I honestly hate the Modern/Future soundtrack because it's so depressing. I mute the music during those eras.

Ambrox made this one, I like the general form of it, but to me the shield looks a little weak. This could be changed of course.
This one was from Coffee Junkies Ethnic Mix More mod. I like the rider (it matches up with the rest of the Carthaginian set I use), not so sure about the blanket (it looks good, but how Carthaginian is it?), and the shield and carriage are rather boring.
This is just the vanilla/stock-BtS Carthage War Elephant. The only bonus to having this is that the rider matches the Numidian Mercenary, so it doesn't stand out as much.
This is another one from Ambrox, I like the color-scheme and the carriage a lot. The shield and rider could be better/more Carthaginian though.


So what does everyone think?

I have the same issue in my new update :) I decided to probably go with 2, as the unit matches the rest of my set better. For now I use 1 with the elephant and carriage skins of 4 (EMM came out after it, so I have not added its units yet).

I have the same issue in my new update :) I decided to probably go with 2, as the unit matches the rest of my set better. For now I use 1 with the elephant and carriage skins of 4 (EMM came out after it, so I have not added its units yet).

I was trying to make this same decision just last night too! I chose #4 in the end as I think both the elephant and rider look more Carthaginian.

Well everyone, I have finished the last quick unit update except for one unit: the Carthaginian War Elephant.

It is an important unit, and part of the identity of Carthage, so to me I wanted to make it as good as possible. Right now I have four options, there are reasons for each to be in. I'l give a quick synopsis on my likes and dislikes for each one:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=246440&d=1268760729


Ambrox made this one, I like the general form of it, but to me the shield looks a little weak. This could be changed of course.
This one was from Coffee Junkies Ethnic Mix More mod. I like the rider (it matches up with the rest of the Carthaginian set I use), not so sure about the blanket (it looks good, but how Carthaginian is it?), and the shield and carriage are rather boring.
This is just the vanilla/stock-BtS Carthage War Elephant. The only bonus to having this is that the rider matches the Numidian Mercenary, so it doesn't stand out as much.
This is another one from Ambrox, I like the color-scheme and the carriage a lot. The shield and rider could be better/more Carthaginian though.


So what does everyone think?

I'd rank them: 2 > 3 > 1 > 4, personally.

I actually did end up going with 4 after reviewing my options and other civs elephants. 1 was too close to the generic hellenistic elephant for my taste and I just was not convinced of 2.

For now I went with option 2, only because the rider fit in with the rest of the Carthaginian set I use. I plan on mixing them all up (similarly to what I did with the Franco LH).

And while you are here, be sure to check out the new screens I posted. :goodjob:

For now I went with option 2, only because the rider fit in with the rest of the Carthaginian set I use. I plan on mixing them all up (similarly to what I did with the Franco LH).

And while you are here, be sure to check out the new screens I posted. :goodjob:

Very nice, especially the horseback Arabian unit.

I have updated the images with a picture showing the Flavian Amphitheatre in Madrid training a Mayan Holkan instead of a Spearman. :goodjob:

I have updated the images with a picture showing the Flavian Amphitheatre in Madrid training a Mayan Holkan instead of a Spearman. :goodjob:

What're the final stats on the Flavian?
Does it still give a money boost to all colloseums?

What're the final stats on the Flavian?
Does it still give a money boost to all colloseums?

Please ask such questions in the Wonders thread from now on.

No, I just got the unit thing to work, now for the rest of it.

GeoModder is having a tough time finding art for the South-Pacific Citystyle which will be used by the Polynesians (and probably a few modular civs like the Philipenes for example). So if you guys want to help out by finding buildings/models or at least pictures we can use as a basis for them that'd be fantastic.

I THINK he needs art for the ancient, classical, medieval, and renaissance eras. But I think the first three eras are the most important.

We're also going to have to discuss the Polynesian UU/UB situation so he knows what art he can use for buildings, so check out that thread and let's get this settled.

This is the new art I intend on using for the Iroquois Longhouse and the Israeli Mossad Field Office:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=247350&d=1269369907

I am hoping Geo doesn't already use these buildings (although I think he might already use the Longhouse) because they look better than the old ones. The Iroquois building wasn't accurate to the Iroquois style, and the old Mossad building I used is actually the BBC. :crazyeye:

Did anyone ever get back to me about changing the modern/future era music?

^Oh yeah, I would totally vouch for that.

So any ideas? I actually don't know how popular the following are on CFC but here's my list:

All That Remains

Killswitch Engage

Pirates of the Caribbean (in case someone doesn't want metalcore and it goes with the game-wide theme of classical music)

Linkin Park

Avenged Sevenfold

Metallica

AC/DC

Michael Jackson (jk)

Aerosmith

Any others? If anyone wants, I can work on a modcomp with this music (I don't have any AC/DC or Aerosmith though) that I can then post in this subforum for whomever wants it, and maybe The_Capo can integrate it later. Any takers?

I think it still should be instrumental music, and not something that could be too distracting. The jazz music of Civ3, for example, comes to mind. Just something more interesting than the vanilla Civ4 stuff.

Okay, anyone opposed to some lyric-less jazz, and/or some type of non-depressing classical music? Holst's "The Planets" and the Pirates of the Caribbean soundtracks come to mind. Some lyric-less techno, maybe (lol, maybe for the Northern Europeans). Actually, anyone remember the theme song for the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin? It was written by my then-favorite band, Eiffel 65, and the song is called "Living in My City." It's got no lyrics (it's like ten minutes long, though). Actually, I could also-rearrange some of the music that came with the game to fit with its generic era (i.e. all Renaissance pieces in the Renaissance, all classical/baroque in the Renaissance, all Romantic in the Industrial Era, all Medieval in the Medieval Era, etc. I'd be willing to devote my Easter break to that

I think it still should be instrumental music, and not something that could be too distracting. The jazz music of Civ3, for example, comes to mind. Just something more interesting than the vanilla Civ4 stuff.

Yeah... let's just stick to more ambient music, like Civ4 has.
I can't imagine playing Civ4 then all of asudden some nu-metal/emo band starts playing.

Personally, I'd suggest just keeping any additional music to a minimum, then just let the players choose to play music over the game.

If I were to change the music in the modern era, I would certainly NOT use contemporary bands that people like just because people like them. I'd use bands that were almost history-making, like the Beatles for instances. I could also, potentially, go with some form of techno music, even though I don't really like it.

If I were to change the music in the modern era, I would certainly NOT use contemporary bands that people like just because people like them. I'd use bands that were almost history-making, like the Beatles for instances. I could also, potentially, go with some form of techno music, even though I don't really like it.

Also, to throw this in, another reason to go for less distracting music is this: How the player is playing.
Rhapsody in Blue playing while the player is... going through inquisitions still. While the player is wiping out another nation.
I Wanna Hold Your Hand playing while nuking Bangladesh.

...who am I kidding, that's some funny imagery.
Gershwin -loves- my police state. :lol:

Well, when you're conquering France, and something like the second movement of Beethoven's fifth symphony comes on, that's also pretty out-of-context, but what can you do? I'm sure there's something that can happen in Python, but nobody's figured it out or nobody really cares enough or has the time :p

While the background music is the least of my concerns, it is certainly something that could be edited. We can come back to this later.

Also, The Capo, I'm about to throw out my Europe III Diplomacy Music Pack in about a day (or two), so I know you said you haven't really thought too much about this stuff, but are there any European civs/leaders you can think of off the top of your head that you may need?

Also, The Capo, I'm about to throw out my Europe III Diplomacy Music Pack in about a day (or two), so I know you said you haven't really thought too much about this stuff, but are there any European civs/leaders you can think of off the top of your head that you may need?

Perhaps something for Richelieu, Charles V/Philip, Franco, Adenauer, Hitler, something new for the Dutch leaders. I don't know, whatever you come up with should be fine.

I like the idea of "Fortuna Imperiatrix" for Hitler, although the end isn't too fitting (too happy)

I like the idea of "Fortuna Imperiatrix" for Hitler, although the end isn't too fitting (too happy)

This is a great suggestion.
If not Orff, Hitler at least needs Wagner.

...or... If I could make a third suggestion...
Konigratzer March.
If you remember Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, it's the piece that plays during the book burning ceremony where Indy gets Hitler's autograph.
It's a great piece, and thanks to that movie, I can't unthink Hitler when I hear it. ...that sounds so odd.

just checked, for me it's too happy and enthusiastic for Hitler
great scene btw :)

Guys, I really need help on the Polynesian/South Pacific city-style. I got a few things, but I don't know much about Maori/Hawaiian/Samoan etc. construction and buildings so I am not the best at this. I'm sure not many of us do, so I think together a bunch of idiots can be just as good as someone who knows some stuff. And we also have Xyth too, so hopefully he can help out a lot.

Anyway, I reskinned a Voodoo Market to look like this, I know it may not be accurate, but I threw some Maori statues and masks on the texture, and changed the color of the roofs, I wanted to use this as the Grocer. Thoughts?

I'm asking everyone, but this is primarily directed at Xyth.

I like it very much, it looks really awesome
But I have no idea how accurate it is, have to pass that part of the question to Xyth

Thing is, the Polynesians weren't really city-builders, so I guess something involving huts up on stilts around a bonfire is as close as I can think of, and that may be what Hollywood taught me :p

Yeah, of course there weren't what we would call Polynesian Metropolises, but there were plenty of large villages they had (called Pas) that were well fortified and protected. But this is civ, so historical accuracy can only take you so far. You are building a hypothetical empire. I mean we have city-styles for the Sioux and Iroquois and they didn't really build large cities either. Hopefully with the stuff I sent GeoModder, and his skills, this will look like an amazing set.

:please: it's all we can do. (that and ask Xyth)

I got the PM but I have my mother-in-law staying with us at the moment so I've only been able to do Civ stuff in small doses... I'm not very familiar with what's available in terms of building art but I when time permits I'll try put together a bunch of pics of Polynesian style buildings that might help with reskinning and the likes.

The building you posted looks good. Most timber in NZ is red or a dark reddish-brown so I would suggest making the colour of the A-frame roof similar to the wood colour of the stalls out front. The texture on the white walls looks a bit too much like stucco or plaster which were most definitely never used. See if you can find something that looks more wooden. The red carved doorframe and face carving are perfect. If possible add a figure at the apex of the roof like in this picture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/communicate/blog/student//images/marae.jpg

That figure represents the chief ancestor of an iwi (tribe) or sometimes a hero or god of particular importance to the iwi. It's a very common element of Maori architecture. That picture also shows how Marae have a 'porch' area. Maybe some other building could have something like that? It's a massive part of Maori custom, as it's where the Tangata Whenua (people of the land) greet the Manuhiri (visitors) from during a Powhiri (welcoming ceremony).

Those vertical beams on the white wall would look really good on that building you made now that I think about it.

The traditional Maori colours are black, white, brown and red, so if you stick with those you can't go wrong. West Polynesian art/architecture tends to use dark brown, light brown and white instead as they didn't have the red timbers. They had some brownish yellows too though I think.

I'll try write some more tonight, have to dash now.

Well I can't make it too Maori, no civ in this game is going to have a specific artstyle for them, so this is really a south-pacific artstyle (as opposed to a Maori or even Polynesian artstyle). I just need to know if the general region is covered well. I have actually already sent the stuff to Geo because he is hitting his deadline and I can't keep him any longer than I have, so we'll just have to see what he comes up with at this point.

Also I am not really much of a building-maker, so these are only reskins, which means I can't really add anything to the buildings.

I guess I'll also say that there aren't really anymore great building-makers in action anymore, which is a real shame.

Triple-post alert!!!

SnafuSmith and asiox3 have recently made some killer modern units, so while I'm waiting on GeoModder to finish up that Polynesian city set I'll do another small unit update. Now would be a GREAT time to suggest anything you think I might have missed, primarily in the modern era, but any era would be good.

Well I can't make it too Maori, no civ in this game is going to have a specific artstyle for them, so this is really a south-pacific artstyle (as opposed to a Maori or even Polynesian artstyle). I just need to know if the general region is covered well.

Yeah I know, I was just talking about that particular building since you'd decorated it with a Maori theme. I was going to post some stuff on Samoan Fale too but I ran out of time.

I have actually already sent the stuff to Geo because he is hitting his deadline and I can't keep him any longer than I have, so we'll just have to see what he comes up with at this point.

Also I am not really much of a building-maker, so these are only reskins, which means I can't really add anything to the buildings.

I wasn't sure on that but reskins are certainly better than nothing :) Sorry I wasn't able to help any sooner, way too busy round here these last few days.

Updated with new Celtic UU!!! :goodjob:

Updated with new Celtic UU!!! :goodjob:

Capo, you've done something I didn't expect a modder could do. You've made me want to play Celt.

I think the Celts won't be a bad choice anymore :)
With Vercingetorix (and maybe later Cartimandua), the new chariot UU with good and useable bonuses, and the slightly improved UB are all for that cause :goodjob:

Speaking of the Celts, I still need good ideas for Ethnic art for their modern-era units. I can go in a few directions. I was thinking of going with Irish modern units (because the other areas where Celts lived; Scotland, England, France, Iberia, northern Italy, and Turkey are already covered in the game) or I could go in a "what-if" direction. Either way I'll probably need help on them. Any thoughts on this?

Also, if anyone could find me good images of WW1-WW2 era units/uniforms for Greece that would be very helpful.

Speaking of the Celts, I still need good ideas for Ethnic art for their modern-era units. I can go in a few directions. I was thinking of going with Irish modern units (because the other areas where Celts lived; Scotland, England, France, Iberia, northern Italy, and Turkey are already covered in the game) or I could go in a "what-if" direction. Either way I'll probably need help on them. Any thoughts on this?

Also, if anyone could find me good images of WW1-WW2 era units/uniforms for Greece that would be very helpful.

I'd go what-if.
Marines covered in woad is a very epic image indeed.

Okay, I wasn't sure what direction to go in for what-if units, but I saw some units Sez made for fury road and I figured I could go in that direction. So anyway here is a quick attempt at putting some woad on one of them. I also gave him red hair for some reason, should I go in this direction or make them look more official?

Okay, I wasn't sure what direction to go in for what-if units, but I saw some units Sez made for fury road and I figured I could go in that direction. So anyway here is a quick attempt at putting some woad on one of them. I also gave him red hair for some reason, should I go in this direction or make them look more official?

Looks good. I'd give it a bit of face-woad as well (not too much), but looks great nonetheless.

I'll try to put together a whole set and post the preview to see what people think. The issue with putting woad on his face is that in the texture the face is cut in half, which means that whatever I put on one side will show up on the other, so any way I make it the woad will seem over the top.

Y'know what's funny?
VD, Blue Marble, Bakuel's units not included in VD, and your units combined... actually kinda look better as a full product than Civ5 does so far.
Off topic kinda, just saying I think that just goes to show that Diplomacy 2 won't be in vain, as many of us will still be around.
It's gonna suck having units that don't quite look like they belong to your civ again, since we're so spoiled now.

Y'know what's funny?
VD, Blue Marble, Bakuel's units not included in VD, and your units combined... actually kinda look better as a full product than Civ5 does so far.
Off topic kinda, just saying I think that just goes to show that Diplomacy 2 won't be in vain, as many of us will still be around.
It's gonna suck having units that don't quite look like they belong to your civ again, since we're so spoiled now.

Yep, I'm totally certain that Civ IV will be superior to Civ V for at least another 2 years
So way to go with Diplomacy :)

I think I'll do what many did between CIII and CIV: I'll straddle the line! I'll continue working with CIV and playing mods, etc. but also work on that for CV. (I still have fun with CIII even! :D)

I just don't understand the creators of some of the civ games sometimes, they always seem to ignore obvious things. Like Ethnic Units, Multiple Leaders, an Earth Map that works like it should (i.e. you can pick whatever civs, or whatever amount of civs, rather than create a pre-set map), you guys know the rest of the list. So I'm quite certain the same thing will happen in Civ V. I'm already fuming over the prospect of one leader per civ.

This is mainly directed at MadmanOfALeader: what is the name of that symbol on the Persian flag you made (the one I use) and the significance of it? Also, do you think that Mazdaism symbol (I think Rhye made one in one of his flag packs for Persia) would be better?

I kinda like the current symbol for Persia, but have no idea what is the background of it
If it really was important in ancient Persia, I vote to keep it :goodjob:

Alright, at this point everything is pretty much finished except for GeoModder's bit. So I'm just waiting on that right now. I suppose I could always add asioasioasio and SnafiSmith's new stuff while I'm waiting.

EDIT 2: Geo just sent me a PM, so he should be done in the next day or so. :goodjob:

I added a new image to the preview section (first page), a little preview of the new South Pacific city-style, and I guess a preview of some English warriors.

I hate to complain but... could the Polynesian flag be changed?
It just looks... not good in that screencap. The bright pink kills it, also kinda makes it hard to tell what the design on it is.

Agreed on the flag. Too bright for me too...
Otherwise the cityset looks very nice :goodjob:

Agreed on the flag. Too bright for me too...
Otherwise the cityset looks very nice :goodjob:

Ah yeah, the cityset itself looks great.

Yeah, those weren't the colors I had in mind. But I am not an expert on art/colors so it was hard for me to describe to Madman what I wanted. That is what he came up with, I suppose I could try again.

I remember having a discussion about flags in the old thread. I think one idea was that the flags operate on a per-leader basis. So if Alexander was leader of Greece their flags would have the Macedonian sun on it. When Pericles was leader it would be the Owl, and so on and so forth.

Well, I MIGHT be able to get that feature in. Although probably not, and it would be easier to have them change by eras. Which is possible. So I guess what I'm asking is (1) do you think I should have the flags change by eras? (2) would it be better if the flags were just attached to the leader (so Franco would have the Falange symbol instead of the castle)? (3) and if we did them for the eras could anyone help me figure out which flags to give them?

I remember having a discussion about flags in the old thread. I think one idea was that the flags operate on a per-leader basis. So if Alexander was leader of Greece their flags would have the Macedonian sun on it. When Pericles was leader it would be the Owl, and so on and so forth.

Well, I MIGHT be able to get that feature in. Although probably not, and it would be easier to have them change by eras. Which is possible. So I guess what I'm asking is (1) do you think I should have the flags change by eras? (2) would it be better if the flags were just attached to the leader (so Franco would have the Falange symbol instead of the castle)? (3) and if we did them for the eras could anyone help me figure out which flags to give them?

I like the idea of having flags-by-leader, personally.
Like you meet Washington who was the old colonies flag, whereas Reagan has our current US flag.

I like that too, but it might be next to impossible to implement. Thomas SG already has working code for different flags by era. So basically I am asking if I should go with that since leader-based flags doesn't look like it can happen.

I don't think that's necessary
Of course "evolving" flags would be cool for some civilizations, but it would be -very- hard for many other civs, would look strange probably for most of them

For example I would hate to see an Egypt with its modern flag, as it only has ancient leaders.
And overally, I like the bicolor flags very much for every nation

I would maintain the bicolor flags if I did change the flags by era.

Not all civs flags would change for every era anyway, for instance the Zulu flag would probably not change much. Other civs may have more changes to their flags. But again the color scheme and bicolor flags would be maintained. Basically there would be the default flag for each civ. Then some civs would get different flags in different eras. So England might use the Plantagenet (three lion) flag, then go on to the Tudor Rose or St. George's Cross, then maybe the Union Jack. Or the Russians may go from the two-headed eagle, to the Hammer and Sickle in the Industrial era, and then maybeback to the two-headed eagle when the modern era or first future era hits. Other countries may have no changes at all. Some may just be for aesthetics, like the Inca may go through different flags in different eras, but they would still be Inca designs (rather than a Peruvian design). I hope that makes sense.

If all of them are bicolor and follow the same schema for each civ, then I think this can come out really well :goodjob:

I guess I'll put up some examples, so it is clear.

It's a neat idea.
I think we could -probably- do it for each civ, excepting a few problems. Like the modern Frankish flag, or the modern Egyptian flag (since Nasser is part of Arabia, it'd probably not be a good idea to use the modern Egyptian flag, since that means Arabia covers modern Egypt.)

For a long time I've been interested in something that ought to be possible if you can change leaders based on time (i.e. RFC): changing leaders' appearance based on religion. If Huayna Capac is Christian, he doesn't have suns on him, he has crucifixes. If Isabella is Jewish, she doesn't have crosses, she has Stars of David. Ditto for Charlemagne. It would only apply for obvious religious symbols, though, but it could also be possible to have "hidden" leaders where they look like versions of normal leaders, but in their religion's dress code (i.e. Elizabeth wouldn't show her hair if she were Muslim)

Also, is it possible to go back to the CIII thing where the leader appearance changes based on time in the game? i.e. they look ancient during the Ancient and Classical Eras, Medieval during the Medieval and Renaissance Eras, Industrial During the Industrial Era, Modern during the Modern Era, and Futuristic during the Future Era. I just thought, since it happens in RFC where you can play against Peter and he turns into Catherine who turns into Stalin, or you can play against Qin Shi Huang who turns into Ming Tai Tsu who turns into Mao Zedong, and there's no Civilopedia entry for Ming Tai Tsu, it ought to be possible.

Is this liked, or is it beyond the scope of this mod?

For a long time I've been interested in something that ought to be possible if you can change leaders based on time (i.e. RFC): changing leaders' appearance based on religion. If Huayna Capac is Christian, he doesn't have suns on him, he has crucifixes. If Isabella is Jewish, she doesn't have crosses, she has Stars of David. Ditto for Charlemagne. It would only apply for obvious religious symbols, though, but it could also be possible to have "hidden" leaders where they look like versions of normal leaders, but in their religion's dress code (i.e. Elizabeth wouldn't show her hair if she were Muslim)

Also, is it possible to go back to the CIII thing where the leader appearance changes based on time in the game? i.e. they look ancient during the Ancient and Classical Eras, Medieval during the Medieval and Renaissance Eras, Industrial During the Industrial Era, Modern during the Modern Era, and Futuristic during the Future Era. I just thought, since it happens in RFC where you can play against Peter and he turns into Catherine who turns into Stalin, or you can play against Qin Shi Huang who turns into Ming Tai Tsu who turns into Mao Zedong, and there's no Civilopedia entry for Ming Tai Tsu, it ought to be possible.

Is this liked, or is it beyond the scope of this mod?

...Way beyond the scope of this mod, IMO.

Damn. Actually, I kind of expected that. Who or what mod would be the place for such a thing? It's outside of my modding skills (I do leaderheads and basic XML) so it's not going to be me to make a change like that :p

Damn. Actually, I kind of expected that. Who or what mod would be the place for such a thing? It's outside of my modding skills (I do leaderheads and basic XML) so it's not going to be me to make a change like that :p

You'd need a full team of leaderhead artists for it, and it'd be a lot of work.

Well, yeah! Plus it'd involve a lot of Python editing, which I don't appear to be very good at...I guess that's really a Civ 4.5 thing or a Civ 4.9 thing :p You know, it's something that would be not just a UXP, but a Super-UXP!

Well, I am working on a proposal for the type of flags I was thinking of using for the base civs and we can move on from there. It may take me a day or so to put this together...

Okay, so for the flag update thing. Basically here are the two ways this can be accomplished.

In the first method, the flags would simply change by era. So simple enough there.

In the second method, the flags would simply be based on the leader. So if you selected Stalin you get a Hammer and Sickle, if you select Mao you get the PRC flag, if you select Cleomenes you get the Spartan Delta. etc.

In the third method, the flags could change by era AND by leader. So if I played as Germany, I'd have the default German flags for the Ancient, Classical, Medieval, and Renaissance eras, if I was a leader that didn't have a default flag. So maybe Bismark get's that Maltese Cross (which he would have the whole time) or Hitler gets the Swastika (which he would have the whole time). And since Adenauer and Frederick wouldn't have leader-specific flags (for this hypothetical purpose that is) they would use Germany's default era flags.

The way I'd like it to be, ultimately is a fourth way, where the flags are dependent on leader and era. So in the last example Hitler would have the Swastika the whole time, in this version he'd get it only in the Industrial and Modern eras, in other eras he'd get the default German flag by era. Of course other Germany leaders would not use the Swastika.

I kind of have to decide this quickly because the guy who is helping me doesn't have a lot of time. If it HELPS I guess I could post up an example of what I am talking about once I get all of the flags together.

The 4th would be the best
I guess actually it means the flag/era method for most of the civs and leaders, with having "special" flags for a few leaders (but just for the eras where it is appropriate to them)
The whole thing would look awesome if we can solve this for all of the civs

Personally I prefer simplicity, so I would prefer option 1 or 2.

It's not that different than the first IMO
Just a few leaders have a that unique flag as Hitler (where unique means: totally inappropriate for the other leaders)
For most civs we have max one leader per era, so it would be the same flag for all of the leaders
And of course most civs won't have different flag for all eras, so I think we can easily go with this solution

I like #4. It's still the same flag-by-era thing, but certain leaders (mainly Hitler) can get better fitting flags.

Umm, yeah. I think I wrote exactly the same thing in my previous posts...

(EDIT: at least I wanted to)

I agree keeping it simple. I think option #2 is better than #1 because, for example, attaching the Swastika to Hitler makes sense but attaching it to all Germans in the modern era would most definitely not be appropriate.

Ultimately it matters how feesable option 4 is. If 4 can't happen I'll probably go with flags by era (meaning there will be no Swastika) rather than leader-based flags. I think that, in the end, the flag by era thing is better.

Ultimately it matters how feesable option 4 is. If 4 can't happen I'll probably go with flags by era (meaning there will be no Swastika) rather than leader-based flags. I think that, in the end, the flag by era thing is better.

That and, if we had to go with option 1, we could still use Hammer & Sickle as an Industrial era flag, Imperial Japanese flag as an Industrial era flag, etc. Then switch over to modern Russian flag and modern Japanese flag for the Modern Era.

Well, here is a quick preview showing what I was thinking (I might do one or two more for some of the more interesting civs) of doing about this. I am starting to think that doing it simply by era might be the easiest and most efficient way of handling this. This way we have the benefits of getting different flags, and adding to flavor, but we also cut down on the frivilous flags by doing it based on leader and era. Of course this can be debated further, but I think doing the flags by era would be the best because the code already exists, and it would require little to no extra work.

So here is the preview, obviously the eras and civs are lineated.

EDIT: Obviously this is by no means a final version or anything. As you can see in some cases there are generally one flag per era (for Spain) and in others they are more grouped together, and in others quite mixed. Rome's "Future" flag is what-if obviously, but I think this is a pretty good idea of how this would go. Of course the next question is; do we want this?

I like the flags, although I'd maybe set Rome's modern flag to Rome's future flag, because that looks -awesome.-


Also, will modular civs be able to get the per-era flags too? Because I could see this becoming really fun for the Just-For-Fun Nazi civ.

Also, will modular civs be able to get the per-era flags too? Because I could see this becoming really fun for the Just-For-Fun Nazi civ.

I don't see why they wouldn't.

:thumbsup: I like these, but I think the Modern and Future Spanish flags are too similar to the Renaissance flag

:thumbsup: I like these, but I think the Modern and Future Spanish flags are too similar to the Renaissance flag

Well yeah, they are similar. It's the same country.

Hey Madman, I see you're lurking around.

I was wondering if you could help me out with some flags (only flags this time, no buttons) for some of the era flags?

I need any good ideas you can come up with, and you know all of the civs in the game and which flags you have already made for me, so if you could help out with some that'd be awesome.

Civs that really need era-flags are Byzantium, Khmer, Babylon, Israel, Carthage, Portugal, Zulu, Iroquois, Maya, Aztecs, China (I need a Qin character), Korea (I would like a Goguryeo symbol), Mongolia (I have no idea), Vikings, Sumeria, and the Franks.

A few I'd definitely like, is a bi-color Union Jack flag, the bird and star symbol from Zimbabwe's flag (I was going to use that as the Zulu modern flag), some Sumerian and Babylonian stuff, and whatever else you can think of. That is, if you are willing to do this for me.

For China, although I'm not sure where you would find it, here are my suggestions for era flags:

Ancient: Shang dynasty oracle bone script, OR something Zhou Dynasty

Classical: "Han" Character (Han Dynasty)

Medieval: "Tang" or "Song" Character (Tang/Song Dynasty)

Renaissance: "Ming" Character (Ming Dynasty)

Industrial: "Qing" Character, or Chinese dragon (Qing Dynasty)

Modern: PRC flag

For China, although I'm not sure where you would find it, here are my suggestions for era flags:

Ancient: Shang dynasty oracle bone script, OR something Zhou Dynasty

Classical: "Han" Character (Han Dynasty)

Medieval: "Tang" or "Song" Character (Tang/Song Dynasty)

Renaissance: "Ming" Character (Ming Dynasty)

Industrial: "Qing" Character, or Chinese dragon (Qing Dynasty)

Modern: PRC flag

Seconding these suggestions. I'd maybe prefer Zhou over Shang for Ancient Era, but both work.

We don't need them for every single era in all cases, although it would be nice to have the options around. But Ancient and Classical could be lumped together for most civs, or Classical and Medieval.

Just whatever Madman can come up with, if he's willing that is.

For China, although I'm not sure where you would find it, here are my suggestions for era flags:

Ancient: Shang dynasty oracle bone script, OR something Zhou Dynasty

Classical: "Han" Character (Han Dynasty)

Medieval: "Tang" or "Song" Character (Tang/Song Dynasty)

Renaissance: "Ming" Character (Ming Dynasty)

Industrial: "Qing" Character, or Chinese dragon (Qing Dynasty)

Modern: PRC flag

I believe that on Wikipedia the Ming Dynasty has a flag, like the Qing Dynasty, and they both had more-or-less the same name "The Empire of the Great Ming/Qing"

What about Future? I would find it hard to imagine what china would/will be like after the People's Republic imploded/implodes maybe the RoC flag (the Taiwanese flag) or something, assuming that after such a political earthquake they'd be quick in trying to seize power, though I doubt they'll ever control mainland China again. Or, in a different future scenario, the PRC would be the world power, and thus for whatever reason that suits them they'd change their flag, you could use the Great Seal of the People's Republic of China (if that's what it's called) as the future flag. It looks pretty cool.

I was going to use this for the China Future era.

http://www.zlok.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/prc-emblem.jpg

I'll add China to the next preview, I just need something to use for their Ancient/Classical period, I was going to use the Dragon for their Medieval and Renaissance period, and then the Taiwan flag as their Industrial, modern flag as their Modern (obviously) and then that one as the future.

That is the Great Seal of the People's Republic I was referring to. :D

Going on this topic...what could one do for the States? Just adding stars between Renaissance and Modern would boring. And what about Future? Adding stars for Puerto Rico, and maybe northern Marianas Islands and Guam? Then again, we haven't had too many flags.

That is the Great Seal of the People's Republic I was referring to. :D

Going on this topic...what could one do for the States? Just adding stars between Renaissance and Modern would boring. And what about Future? Adding stars for Puerto Rico, and maybe northern Marianas Islands and Guam? Then again, we haven't had too many flags.

Ahem.

Ancient - Classical: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/US_flag_13_stars_%E2%80%93_Betsy_Ross.svg

Medieval - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Naval_Jack_of_the_United_States.svg (just because it'd be awesome)

Renaissance - Industrial http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/US_flag_37_stars.svg

Modern: Duh

Future: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/US_51-star_alternate_flag.svg

Though it is true we'd still just be adding stars between Reniassance and Modern.

Maybe the future one could incorporate the Great Seal of the United States of America or something.

France:

Anicet/Classical-http://www.twcenter.net/w/images/4/4f/Gaul_Faction_Symbol-Vanilla.png (Only, not circular)

Medieval -http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Flag_of_France_%28XIV-XVI%29.svg/500px-Flag_of_France_%28XIV-XVI%29.svg.png

Reinisance-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Pavillon_royal_de_France.svg/500px-Pavillon_royal_de_France.svg.png

Industrial-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Flag_of_France.svg/500px-Flag_of_France.svg.png

Modern-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Flag_of_Free_France_1940-1944.svg/500px-Flag_of_Free_France_1940-1944.svg.png

Future-IDK

Future, it's just white :lol: Seriously, what abut a hybrid EU-French Republic Flag?

Future, it's just white :lol: Seriously, what abut a hybrid EU-French Republic Flag?

The official flag from 1815-1830 WAS a pure white flag. Not to mention 1815 was the Vienna Congress, which officially ended the Napoleonic Wars... :mischief:

Anyways, since the EU is basically just France's equivalent to NATO, mind as well just make it the EU flag, screw a mixture of them.

Wow, wasn't going to get this specific, I'll put up previews of what I had in mind for these civs and maybe a couple others.

Wow, wasn't going to get this specific, I'll put up previews of what I had in mind for these civs and maybe a couple others.

What will you do about overlapping civs?
Egypt and Arabia (since Arabia has Nasser)
Franks/France & Germany
Khmer/Vietnam & Siam

etc.

My goal is to avoid using the same flag for more than one civ. So basically if there is a flag that a modular civ will use, I won't use it. I think after you see the next preview you'll have an idea as to what I am doing here.

England (It uses the Union Jack, but not all the time. There really wasn't an actual England past 1707)

Acient/Classical-http://www.twcenter.net/w/images/5/52/Britannia_Faction_Symbol-Vanilla.png

Mideval-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/500px-Flag_of_England.svg.png

Reinisance-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Union_flag_1606_%28Kings_Colors%29.svg/500px-Union_flag_1606_%28Kings_Colors%29.svg.png

Industrial-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/500px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png

Modern-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_UK%2BWales.svg/500px-Flag_UK%2BWales.svg.png

Future-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/37/Flag_of_NATO.svg/500px-Flag_of_NATO.svg.png

I had a plan for England already, I'll unveil it soon. I would really like to get that ancient/classical one made though. That'd be nice.

Okay, here is the next flag progression preview. There are some with more changes (like Germany) than others (like Egypt), but I think they are pretty decent. I wasn't sure what to use for Germany's Medieval-era so I just used the Bohemian flag thing. Similarly, for England, I'd like a better classical flag but this one works:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249733&d=1271456146

I was thinking of switching the American Industrial to the Medieval spot and bumping the other two up to Renaissance and Industrial, and obviously they don't have 13 stars (they have 12), but I can fix that. The next one, and last preview, I'll do for these flags will include some more obscure civs/civs that don't normally have flags. So we'll see what I could come up with for that one.

Illuminati flag for Future Egypt? Are you implying that Egypt will erode into terrorism in far future? I'm being serious, that's a symbol for a (presumably) dead terrorist group.

I'm also not digging the English set. I think St. Geroge's cross should be used in the Medieval times, along with Renaissance like it currently is. Also, why the Coat of Arms for Industrial? Why not the original Union flag (Just Scotland and England)? Also, Future, if not the NATO flag (I really don't know what I was thinking...), Why not a Union Jack with the Welsh Dragon, my proposed modern flag? I can see then that Britain will, in an act of British Nationalism, add a Welsh symbol to the jack so they're not left out.

My final complaint is the HRE for Renaissance. By the time the Renaissance first came, the HRE was enstenally dead, and Napoleonic Wars (Which happened right before the Industrial Revolution) killed it off for good. You shouldn't represent the death of HRE, but when it had strength. Move Renaissance flag to Medieval, and either also keep it for renaissance to show it was still there, or make the Industrial to show the rise of Prussia.

I say yes to the changes for America. Makes more sense that way.

Illuminati flag for Future Egypt? Are you implying that Egypt will erode into terrorism in far future? I'm being serious, that's a symbol for a (presumably) dead terrorist group.


I didn't know that was an Illuminati flag. Are you sure it is? I figured it'd suit future-Egypt well.


I'm also not digging the English set. I think St. Geroge's cross should be used in the Medieval times, along with Renaissance like it currently is. Also, why the Coat of Arms for Industrial? Why not the original Union flag (Just Scotland and England)? Also, Future, if not the NATO flag (I really don't know what I was thinking...), Why not a Union Jack with the Welsh Dragon, my proposed modern flag? I can see then that Britain will, in an act of British Nationalism, add a Welsh symbol to the jack so they're not left out.


Well during the Renaissance, for the most part, the St. George's cross flag would have been used. I wanted to put the Plantagenet lions in, and that fits best in the Medieval era.


My final complaint is the HRE for Renaissance. By the time the Renaissance first came, the HRE was enstenally dead, and Napoleonic Wars (Which happened right before the Industrial Revolution) killed it off for good. You shouldn't represent the death of HRE, but when it had strength. Move Renaissance flag to Medieval, and either also keep it for renaissance to show it was still there, or make the Industrial to show the rise of Prussia.

That eagle isn't the HRE eagle, that is the Swabian Eagle. And I figured Prussia's is pretty simlar so I used it.


I say yes to the changes for America. Makes more sense that way.

My only reservation is on the flag for medieval Germany. I could be wrong here, but wasn't that the flag for one of the many states within the HRE?

My only reservation is on the flag for medieval Germany. I could be wrong here, but wasn't that the flag for one of the many states within the HRE?

Yeah, but practically every German state was part of the HRE. And there is no HRE in this mod anyway.

I didn't know that was an Illuminati flag. Are you sure it is? I figured it'd suit future-Egypt well.

Yep, Illuminati. It would fit Egypt well it degraded into a secular version of Afghanistan, but nothing else.

Well during the Renaissance, for the most part, the St. George's cross flag would have been used. I wanted to put the Plantagenet lions in, and that fits best in the Medieval era.

I personally think St. George's Cross makes more sense for both time periods. It was extremely important national symbol then and now, and more universal than the Plantagenet Lions. I guess it doesn't really matter. Just, please, change the Industrial flag to the original Union Flag of 1707. The Coat of Arms of Great Britain makes no sense for a flag for England. I also suggest the modified Union Jack for future, but it doesn't matter that much. No one really cares about Wales*.

That eagle isn't the HRE eagle, that is the Swabian Eagle. And I figured Prussia's is pretty simlar so I used it.

Well, the way the Vanilla civ was made, it wouldn't really case any flinches to call it Prussia. But in that case, why use Saxony's flag for Medieval Germany? Saxony wasn't even the strongest kingdom. I suggest changing medieval flag to HRE eagle. Keep the Renaissance flag, I didn't know it was to represent Prussia and not HRE, but, since you are, wouldn't the Industrial flag be used for both Ren. and Ind. Iron Cross is more universal and more well known.

*No offence, Welsh, but it seems true. More people remember Northern Ireland more than they do to you.

Well, first can I get some confirmation that it is an Illuminati flag? I understand the eye and the pyramid and stuff, but that imagery is also appropriate for Egypt as well. The symbol was derived from Egypt anyway. And I don't think many people will think Illuminati necessarily.

The German flag is actually Bavaria's flag, but I suppose Saxony has the same pattern to it, which in my estimation makes it more appropriate for Germany that way.

I like the English flags, but I will consider what you have said.

This feature hasn't been confirmed anyway, so it may not even happen.

Peru's flag then:

Ancient/Classical: Inca rainbow
Medieval/Renaissance: Spanish Military Flag
Industrial/Modern: Modern Peruvian Flag
Future: Something that uses the Great Seal of Peru (if that's what it's called)

Well, first can I get some confirmation that it is an Illuminati flag? I understand the eye and the pyramid and stuff, but that imagery is also appropriate for Egypt as well. The symbol was derived from Egypt anyway. And I don't think many people will think Illuminati necessarily.

The German flag is actually Bavaria's flag, but I suppose Saxony has the same pattern to it, which in my estimation makes it more appropriate for Germany that way.

I like the English flags, but I will consider what you have said.

This feature hasn't been confirmed anyway, so it may not even happen.

It's... not really Illuminati. Kinda.
You have to remember, there -is- no real Illuminati.
I think he's referring to the fact that it looks like the eye-pyramid on the back of US bill currency, which many people claim is a sign that there's some Illuminati conspiracy.

Honestly though... if we're going for Future Egypt, is there a Stargate Egypt related symbol that could be used?
Because when I think futuristic Egypt, I think the 3rd best Kurt Russel movie.

It's... not really Illuminati. Kinda.
You have to remember, there -is- no real Illuminati.
I think he's referring to the fact that it looks like the eye-pyramid on the back of US bill currency, which many people claim is a sign that there's some Illuminati conspiracy.

Honestly though... if we're going for Future Egypt, is there a Stargate Egypt related symbol that could be used?
Because when I think futuristic Egypt, I think the 3rd best Kurt Russel movie.

It's the Eye of Providence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence), the symbol for Freemasonry. It's rumored that the Freemasons lodges of old were taken over by the Illuminati once they were disbanded by Bavarian law, where they remain to this day, waiting for their chance.

Yeah but doesn't that derive, like most things Freemason, from Egyptian iconography?

I mean, it's an eye (think eye of Ra), and a pyramid. To me that's pretty Egyptian, I could find something else, I'm quite sure. This was a preview, and is more there to get an idea of what I intend on doing (for the future era stuff, some of it is just modern, some I have played with). So suggestions are certainly welcome, I'm just explaining what I'm thinking, so ideas are good.

What should I use for future Russia? France?

It doesn't have to be a FLAG, so don't get caught up on that. I actually want to use real flags sporadically if I can (so stuff like the English/British Union Jack won't be commonplace).

Yeah but doesn't that derive, like most things Freemason, from Egyptian iconography?

I mean, it's an eye (think eye of Ra), and a pyramid. To me that's pretty Egyptian, I could find something else, I'm quite sure. This was a preview, and is more there to get an idea of what I intend on doing (for the future era stuff, some of it is just modern, some I have played with). So suggestions are certainly welcome, I'm just explaining what I'm thinking, so ideas are good.

What should I use for future Russia? France?

It doesn't have to be a FLAG, so don't get caught up on that. I actually want to use real flags sporadically if I can (so stuff like the English/British Union Jack won't be commonplace).

Got a lot of freemasons in my family, so I can definitely say that freemasons -love- using greco-roman and egyptian stuff. That's part of why our nation's capitol looks kinda like a Hellenist enthusiast's wet dream.


Personally, I'm fine with it but I can understand that many will see it and go "conspiracy theories!"
I'm trying to think of an alternative, but I haven't seen Stargate in so long that sci-fi + Egypt aren't mixing in my head right.

Keeping this from becoming Dan Brown's Lost Symbol, What do y'all think of my Peruvian/Inca flag proposal?

Keeping this from becoming Dan Brown's Lost Symbol, What do y'all think of my Peruvian/Inca flag proposal?

Inca and Peru would be two different civs, so it won't work for this. I have some flags for the Inca though.

Inca and Peru would be two different civs, so it won't work for this. I have some flags for the Inca though.

We're getting Peru?

I believe it was in the list...

Peru wasn't decided (yet) AFAIK
It was on option, just mentioned as a possible modpack civ (purple ones in my table)

For the flags, you should definitely make an option to be able use the vanilla one flag/civ way too
Lot of people won't like all the new flags (even hate some of them), that's for sure
So if this will be the only way to play Diplomacy, it will add much more problems and disagreement than the benefits we get from the whole flag/era thing

France's future flag should be the EU flag. We all know that the EU is just basically France's second attempt to rule Europe, only this time diplomatically.

What?
Lol, this is ridiculous
You can't be serious :D

Illuminati? France ruling the EU?

Can somebody say "conspiracy theorist?" Well, I'm certainly not going to engage in hypothetical history (i.e. France will not have the EU flag), although I do appreciate the enthusiasm.

And @ Absinthe; as far as I know the flags by era thing is part of the game (and can not be turned off or on the way you are describing) so I can do either one of two things. Remove it entirely, or have it change more subtly/less often.

Just to be sure: I meant a pre-game option where you choose, which one do you prefer: vanilla flag/civ or the new flag/era/civ.
The same way religions work right now. You have an option to choose the custom religions, but can easily stick to the vanilla ways with the original 7 religions

You sure this can't be solved?

Just to be sure: I meant a pre-game option where you choose, which one do you prefer: vanilla flag/civ or the new flag/era/civ.
The same way religions work right now. You have an option to choose the custom religions, but can easily stick to the vanilla ways with the original 7 religions

You sure this can't be solved?

Well, I'm not actually working on this myself, so I don't know. I could always find out though.

Anyway here is another proposal. This time we have the Zulu, Koreans, Aztecs and Celts.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249840&d=1271520033

For the Zulu, I wanted to give them something different for the earlier eras so I went with a Lion. The Industrial flag is the Coat of arms of a Zulu province of South Africa. The modern is the symbol from Zimbabwe's flag, I know that it is technically not Zulu itself, but since the Zulu had Zimbabwe as their capital in older versions of Civ and I didn't know what to do for their future and modern era I went with this symbol.

Korea's is pretty good, the only one that I am iffy about is the Renaissance symbol, but I thought it was cool so I used it.

For the Aztecs, again, a lot of what-if going on here. The Industrial and Modern flags are just sytlized Aztec Eagles. The last one is a modern-looking version of an Aztec eagle, as is the ancient one.

The Celts start with a Gallic boar, and then just go on with random Celtic designs.

With the exception of the Medieval/Renaissance flag, NONE of the Zulu flags are Zulu-like. I especially don't like the Industrial one, as you're basically saying they will be internally conquered by whites no matter what.

I don't really like Korea's Industrial flag that much, it isn't Korean enough. Everything else is fine.

Industrial/Modern Aztec flag should swap position with Ancient/Classical version, as the Industrial version is an actual Aztec Eagle, while the classical one is a modern, cartoon version.

I think the Celt flags are fine, considering the fact we're not going to find anything else. I thought we were using the Boar for Ancient France, though.

With the exception of the Medieval/Renaissance flag, NONE of the Zulu flags are Zulu-like. I especially don't like the Industrial one, as you're basically saying they will be internally conquered by whites no matter what.


Well, I thought the Lion fit well enough, but to each his own. The Industrial one doesn't imply conquest by whites, sure the emblem is European in style, but I think it is for a semi-autonomous Zulu region, where the King and all of that currently rules/resides. So I don't think it is that bad.


I don't really like Korea's Industrial flag that much, it isn't Korean enough. Everything else is fine.

Well it IS Korean:

http://www.mstrum.com/onmywaytokorea/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/north-korean-propaganda-juche-seon-gun-28.jpg

And I thought it was a relatively well-known symbol anyway.


Industrial/Modern Aztec flag should swap position with Ancient/Classical version, as the Industrial version is an actual Aztec Eagle, while the classical one is a modern, cartoon version.


I suppose I could switch those.


I think the Celt flags are fine, considering the fact we're not going to find anything else. I thought we were using the Boar for Ancient France, though.

I am using a Cock for France, a Boar for the Celts. At least there is something you like. :rolleyes:

Man, you're easily the most brutal critic of the flags. :lol:

Well, I thought the Lion fit well enough, but to each his own. The Industrial one doesn't imply conquest by whites, sure the emblem is European in style, but I think it is for a semi-autonomous Zulu region, where the King and all of that currently rules/resides. So I don't think it is that bad.

Well, I just don't think a Lion is Zulu, but, like you said, to each his own. Maybe how I put it is wrong, but I still really hate the Industrial flag. It's still showing European dominice, no matter how you look at it. It wouldn't be a flag that a 100% Zulu civilization that lasted to the Industrial age would use for a flag. It doesn't really fit.



Well it IS Korean:

http://www.mstrum.com/onmywaytokorea/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/north-korean-propaganda-juche-seon-gun-28.jpg

And I thought it was a relatively well-known symbol anyway.

Wait, so you want to use a symbol from a communist propaganda poster/country for a industrial flag? :crazyeye:

I am using a Cock for France, a Boar for the Celts. At least there is something you like. :rolleyes:

I don't like it per se, but I know we really can't find better flags

Man, you're easily the most brutal critic of the flags. :lol:

I'm only brutal because I care about this mod. :)

LOL, no the symbol is a North Korean symbol. I didn't "use it" from a poster, MadmanOfALeader made it before I looked it up (Juche by the way), it also appears in the background of Kim Jong-il in the mod. He just made it back when we were going to do leader-based flags. I wanted to incorporate part of Communist Korea into the mod as well, and figured that I should just do it during the Industrial era.

Keep in mind that the flags used are loosely based on history. I don't want to go too exact, its mostly there for flavor and not for specific historic accuracy. The thing is, I don't have time to sit around making flags all day. So I want to generally try and use what I have. This shouldn't be too complicated, and people shouldn't be so strict and demanding about it. I mean, right now you are stuck with the same flag the entire time, at least I am trying to break up the monotony.

Basically what I am saying is that I have limitations to work with here. And within those limitations I have to make it fun and interesting. So going with a strict line of reasoning is either going to result in hardly any flags changing, or flags changing at such a rate it is ridiculous. So I'm trying to find a good middle ground here.

I don't mind criticism, but open-ended criticism doens't help. When I put up a flag and you say "that doesn't look right, or this shouldn't be like that" you should also make suggestions, because everything that gets shot down is only going to be replaced with the original flag unless I have something viable to use instead.

I understand what you are saying about the Zulu Industrial flag, but without a good replacement your criticism isn't really helpful.

I agree on the Aztecs, the 5th and 6th should be the first 2 flags
You can go with the future for modern too, and then we just need a cool industrial one

For Korea I'm also not sure on the industrial, maybe give the same as renaissance there
I like the Zulu and Celt sets

Okay then. First of all, the Zulu lived in present day South Africa, so the Industrial flag could be the current South African coat of arms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/Coat_of_arms_of_South_Africa.svg/500px-Coat_of_arms_of_South_Africa.svg.png

That's more Zulu than the Coat of Arms for the colony itself.

Also, for Industrial Korea, if we're going to use that flag at all, it should be in the Modern slot. Again, Communism wasn't really around until the immediate end of the Industrial era. I'd personally say just use the Renaissance flag for Industrial along with Renaissance and keep Modern/Future flag the same.

There, I have some suggestions, happy?

South Africa will be added in one of the modpacks, so we can't use those simbols for the Zulu

South Africa will be added in one of the modpacks, so we can't use those simbols for the Zulu

I really need to keep up to date on new civs. Stop making me do double-takes! You'll hurt my head.

Though I guess a South Africa civ makes sense, since I seem to remember Capo -wanted- to keep using Nelson Mandela, but realized it was really, really weird having him be part of the Zulu.

I really need to keep up to date on new civs. Stop making me do double-takes! You'll hurt my head.

Check the first post of the other thread
Of course whether we will include all those civs or not are not put into stone, so it's far from a final list, but they are all based on the latest infos from The Capo (as far as we know it)

Btw, there weren't any changes on the list in the past few weeks

Okay then. First of all, the Zulu lived in present day South Africa, so the Industrial flag could be the current South African coat of arms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/Coat_of_arms_of_South_Africa.svg/500px-Coat_of_arms_of_South_Africa.svg.png

That's more Zulu than the Coat of Arms for the colony itself.

Also, for Industrial Korea, if we're going to use that flag at all, it should be in the Modern slot. Again, Communism wasn't really around until the immediate end of the Industrial era. I'd personally say just use the Renaissance flag for Industrial along with Renaissance and keep Modern/Future flag the same.

There, I have some suggestions, happy?

Yes, very happy. :goodjob:

I think I could get around using this Coat of Arms for the Zulu and then a different one for South Africa. I was also thinking of taking the bird and all that from the top and making that the future flag, and then having the bottom part be the Industrial and Modern flags? What do you think?

Yes, very happy. :goodjob:

I think I could get around using this Coat of Arms for the Zulu and then a different one for South Africa. I was also thinking of taking the bird and all that from the top and making that the future flag, and then having the bottom part be the Industrial and Modern flags? What do you think?

I think that's fine, personally.

And @ Absinthe; as far as I know the flags by era thing is part of the game (and can not be turned off or on the way you are describing) so I can do either one of two things. Remove it entirely, or have it change more subtly/less often.

We can't turn the change on/off as I do it in CCV (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=308) but it is no problem to make it a normal game option. :mischief:

So you can do a clickable "flags by era" option?

So anyway... does anyone know what "!KE E: /XARRA //KE" means?

We can't turn the change on/off as I do it in CCV (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=308) but it is no problem to make it a normal game option. :mischief:

Awesome, that's what I hoped for! :goodjob:
It's more than enough for me if we can choose this pre-game

So anyway... does anyone know what "!KE E: /XARRA //KE" means?

Apparently it means "Unity in Diversity" in case anyone was wondering.

Hey, you added a second '/' later, that's why I didn't find it previously :p

Anyway, I checked it too: means "diverse people unite" in Khoisan language

EDIT: "The motto is: !ke e: /xarra //ke, written in the Khoisan language of the /Xam people, literally meaning: diverse people unite. It addresses each individual effort to harness the unity between thought and action. On a collective scale, it calls for the nation to unite in a common sense of belonging and national pride - Unity in Diversity."

EDIT2: Wow, I had no idea South Frica has 11 official languages!! Plus a few already extinct ones :crazyeye:
Back to the flags, I think this will work well for the Zulu, as it's based on one of their old and extinct language...

So anyway... does anyone know what "!KE E: /XARRA //KE" means?

Diverse People Unite

So you can do a clickable "flags by era" option?

Yes, of course. :)

Apparently it means "Unity in Diversity" in case anyone was wondering.

Is this from the Korean poster or something? It sounds oddly like "E pluribus unum"

"The motto is: !ke e: /xarra //ke, written in the Khoisan language of the /Xam people, literally meaning: diverse people unite. It addresses each individual effort to harness the unity between thought and action. On a collective scale, it calls for the nation to unite in a common sense of belonging and national pride - Unity in Diversity."

Anyway, it's connected to the flag Capo posted before. So it has nothing to do with Korea, rather with South Africa and the Zulus

I don't know how Korea got pulled into this.

So I decided to make France's ancient flag the boar after all. I am having a bit of trouble getting France's flags right. Right now I'm going with a Boar for the ancient and classical era (although I may make a Cock the classical flag) for medieval and renaissance they will have the triple fleur de lis. For Industrial I was going to use the coat of arms of the first French Empire (i.e. Napoleon's thing) and then the modern ensign will either be the modern French ensign (it has the Fasces and FR on it and what not) or a modern looking Cock, or maybe the Eiffel Tower.

I might be getting a bit carried away on these, but I am a graphics modder after all so graphics usually get the most attention from me. I'll have one more flag preview and you guys can tell me if I am going overboard or not.

I would like to get some ideas for Sumeria, Carthage, Khmer, and Babylon actually.

EDIT: Heh... I said Cock...

I don't know how Korea got pulled into this.

So I decided to make France's ancient flag the boar after all. I am having a bit of trouble getting France's flags right. Right now I'm going with a Boar for the ancient and classical era (although I may make a Cock the classical flag) for medieval and renaissance they will have the triple fleur de lis. For Industrial I was going to use the coat of arms of the first French Empire (i.e. Napoleon's thing) and then the modern ensign will either be the modern French ensign (it has the Fasces and FR on it and what not) or a modern looking Cock, or maybe the Eiffel Tower.

I might be getting a bit carried away on these, but I am a graphics modder after all so graphics usually get the most attention from me. I'll have one more flag preview and you guys can tell me if I am going overboard or not.

I would like to get some ideas for Sumeria, Carthage, Khmer, and Babylon actually.

EDIT: Heh... I said Cock...

Ancient - Classical Khmer could be an elephant head
Medieval Khmer should be the Angkor Wat

I'm not sure what to do for anything after medieval since we have Siam and Cambodia to consider.

Ancient - Classical Khmer could be an elephant head
Medieval Khmer should be the Angkor Wat

I'm not sure what to do for anything after medieval since we have Siam and Cambodia to consider.

Well, for my mod's purposes Khmer is Cambodia (although I was also thinking of doing a Cham civ). So there is no Cambodia per se (which is why Pol Pot is a Khmer leader by the way), I suppose that is fine. I have a Cambodian coat of arms I could use as Industrial and beyond. I could use a stylized elephant head for the ancient and classical period, and then Angkor Wat for the medieval and renaissance periods.

Well, for my mod's purposes Khmer is Cambodia (although I was also thinking of doing a Cham civ). So there is no Cambodia per se (which is why Pol Pot is a Khmer leader by the way), I suppose that is fine. I have a Cambodian coat of arms I could use as Industrial and beyond. I could use a stylized elephant head for the ancient and classical period, and then Angkor Wat for the medieval and renaissance periods.

Ha, Cambodia -is- merged with Khmer.
Sorry, I'm used to mods having the two as separate.

I like that, though. Elephant head, Angkor Wat, coat of arms, and then for the future... MECHANICAL ELEPHANT.
...Okay maybe that's over the top. But it'd be interesting to say the last.

For Babylon...

Ancient - Classical: Stylized lion, maybe? I'd imagine we have many lion flags, but could always have it look a bit more Babylonian somehow in the way the lion is outlined.

Medieval - Renaissance: Babylonian Sphynx

Modern - Future: Tower of Babel. "Screw you history, since we never died out we totally built this thing!"

For Babylon...

Ancient - Classical: Stylized lion, maybe? I'd imagine we have many lion flags, but could always have it look a bit more Babylonian somehow in the way the lion is outlined.

Medieval - Renaissance: Babylonian Sphynx

Modern - Future: Tower of Babel. "Screw you history, since we never died out we totally built this thing!"

I'm going to make one of them that Dagon image. I have some good stuff for Carthage now too, I think the next preview will have France, Carthage, Khmer and Babylon.

And I think the Babylonians DID build the Tower of Babel, they just called it the, I am going to butcher the hell out of this spelling here, the Etemenanki. Although, it obviously didn't reach up to heaven (well, there is no heaven to reach anyway) and it wasn't built for the reasons lineated in the Bible, but a lot of scholars believe that this was the building in question.

Alright, here is another flag by era proposal. It has Khmer, Franks, Carthage and France on it. :goodjob:

Alright, here is another flag by era proposal. It has Khmer, Franks, Carthage and France on it. :goodjob:

Not bad, though what is Khmer's ancient-classical? Looks kinda Mesopotamian.

Not bad, though what is Khmer's ancient-classical? Looks kinda Mesopotamian.

It's a Khmer styled picture of a lion. I don't really see anything Mesopotamian about it to be honest.

It's a Khmer styled picture of a lion. I don't really see anything Mesopotamian about it to be honest.

In that shot it's kinda small, so I thought it was something like a winged lion with a dragon head (so I guess I meant more Greek than anything.)

I see what you based it on, though.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2555755507_223ac6f878.jpg?v=0

But what's that triangle by the back leg?

Anyway, it's connected to the flag Capo posted before. So it has nothing to do with Korea, rather with South Africa and the Zulus

Actually, that was MY image.

Khmer- I never even heard about them until Civ, so I don't think it's right to give any judgment on if their flags fir or not. I will say, however, with all those Angkor Wat flags, there's probably not going to be a Cambodia civ, right?

Franks- Ind-Future flag looks too much like the German Modern/Future flag, but everything else was fine

Carth- I actually like these flags. Industrial seems out of place compared to the other flags, though. Use the Modern/Future flag for Ind, as well?

France- I'd say just use the Cock for Ancient. Two civs shouldn't share the same flag. However, my biggest problem is that you didn't use the Tricolor! Why? You use the Union Jack, so you can't say because it's too complicated of a flag. At least Modern AND Future should have it, and possibly Industrial, as well.

My only suggestion is to maybe make the classical Carthaginian flag the same as the medieval and renaissance one, although I suppose it's not really necessary.

I'm also kind of a bit surprised with the future flag for France... I don't know, it doesn't seem to fit in my opinion, but what not.

My only suggestion is to maybe make the classical Carthaginian flag the same as the medieval and renaissance one, although I suppose it's not really necessary.

I'm also kind of a bit surprised with the future flag for France... I don't know, it doesn't seem to fit in my opinion, but what not.

Agreed on this.
The Frankish flags could also use a bit of changing, to further differentiate from Germany.

I'd also suggest maybe changing the Khmer flag. I get that it's meant to look like the Khmer lion, but with it that small it doesn't really work. The outline's also a bit odd (with the tail and headshape.)
I'd just suggest sticking with a stylized Khmer lion head, or a stylized Khmer elephant head. Full body just doesn't work too well.

Khmer- I never even heard about them until Civ, so I don't think it's right to give any judgment on if their flags fir or not. I will say, however, with all those Angkor Wat flags, there's probably not going to be a Cambodia civ, right?

The Khmer and the Cambodians are the same people. Khmer is the name of the ethnicity, in medieval times their country was called Angkor, in modern times it was called Kampuchea for a while and now it is called Cambodia (by us English speaking folk anyway).

France- I'd say just use the Cock for Ancient. Two civs shouldn't share the same flag. However, my biggest problem is that you didn't use the Tricolor! Why? You use the Union Jack, so you can't say because it's too complicated of a flag. At least Modern AND Future should have it, and possibly Industrial, as well.

He's not using the tricolour because he wishes to retain the 2 colour flag system that Civ4 uses by default. This is important in multiplayer games in particular when teamcolours become important. Using full colour flags removes this functionality.

I have no idea how he's managed to make a Union Jack with only 2 colours, but it sure wouldn't work for the French tricolour by definition.

The Khmer and the Cambodians are the same people. Khmer is the name of the ethnicity, in medieval times their country was called Angkor, in modern times it was called Kampuchea for a while and now it is called Cambodia (by us English speaking folk anyway).



He's not using the tricolour because he wishes to retain the 2 colour flag system that Civ4 uses by default. This is important in multiplayer games in particular when teamcolours become important. Using full colour flags removes this functionality.

I have no idea how he's managed to make a Union Jack with only 2 colours, but it sure wouldn't work for the French tricolour by definition.

...yeah. How -does- Union Jack work with only 2 colors?

Ugh, you guys are killing me. But I love it, so don't stop...

Anyway, here I go...

@ The Khmer/Cambodia issue; yeah, its the same civ. I don't even know where the idea for a different Cambodian civ ever came from. I'll provide a large image of where it came from so you know what it looks like. I suppose I could change it, but I would also advise you guys not to count your chickens before they've hatched. Let's see them in-game first before we start knocking the flags. :goodjob:

@ Franks/France/Germany thing; I can't ignore history, and don't want to anyway. The Frankish flags, are as follows. The ancient and classical flags show the Francisca, which was a traditional Frankish weapon. The "knotted cross" is actually a very early Frankish rendition of the Christian cross, and is thus a melding of their own culture and their new faith. The Fleur de Lis/Lys, if anyone wants to know, is actually a symbol of Clovis, the first Christian Frankish leader. And then the eagles are the original Holy Roman Eagle. So to me this works. Obviously there are going to be similarities between the Frankish symbols and the French and German ones. But this can not be avoided, the Franks were basically the predecessors of France and to a big degree the Germans. Short of removing them I don't know what you guys really expect me to do about this.

@ Carthage Industrial; I like the flag, I drew it myself, and it took me a long time to make. I can move it around, but I'm not getting rid of it.

@ France/Celts - Cock/Boar thing; I am NOT going to use the boar for the Celts anymore, so it is fine for France to use. :goodjob:

@ France Future Flag; I could use the Eiffel tower if that makes you feel better, I just figured that the cock is a better modern French symbol. It covers the history of France, it is a common French symbol, and we have no idea what the future will bring for France so I generally go either "generic" or "cool" for the future era flags. In France's case I went generic. Honestly, the flag I was most worried about was the modern one.

@ France tricolor; I don't know how you expect me to pull this off, we are using bicolor flags. It would be impossible to get the French tricolor to work with a bicolor system. The reason I use the Union Jack is because it is recognizable as the Union Jack. If I put up a tricolor flag in bicolor schematics it could be a plethora of flags (Ireland, Italy, France, Nigeria, Peru, Romania, Belgium, need I go on?).

I hope that answers everyone's questions. But again, please let me know what you think. That is precisely the reason I go through the trouble of making previews for you all to look at.

For France I would go with the Eiffel Tower, and replace the classical Cock with the future one. It looks much better

I like the chicken for France :goodjob:

Well, then, why don't you use the flag that was inspired the Tricolor?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Flag_of_Paris.svg/500px-Flag_of_Paris.svg.png

The flag of Paris, which, due to their militia, inspired Napoléon to use as his national flag. He added white to the center to represent that white was the traditional French color.

Well, then, why don't you use the flag that was inspired the Tricolor?

The flag of Paris, which, due to their militia, inspired Napoléon to use as his national flag. He added white to the center to represent that white was the traditional French color.

I'm not sure if the code that enables changing symbols also enables changing civ colours in each era. I would assume not, as changing colours midway through a game would be confusing and mess up multiplayer once again. To be able to have that flag, all of the other French flags would have have to change to blue and red also. That would make the Fleur de Lys look strange for one. Best to stick with flags that are symbol based, not colour based.

Capo, was thinking.
I think this might work better as the Modern/Future flag for Arabia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Coat_of_arms_of_Saudi_Arabia.svg

It's Saudi Arabia's coat of arms.

I have something I am going to use already, something different from what I posted previously.

Any words about my flag?

Any words about my flag?

Xyth summed it up pretty well, since I am not going to change France's secondary color to red that flag wouldn't look right. It would just be a half blue/half yellow flag. Wouldn't make much sense.

This is not related to what we have been talking about in this thread, but I figured it is more appropriate here than in the Playtest Feedback thread: Basically the mod isn't performing like I want it to. Obviously, with a mod this big there were bound to be MAF issues, but they are pretty bad right now. I think one area that I can adress is the unit models used. For many units there are three different models rather than one model. I think what I should do is cut back on these emmensely. I know, it makes the mod look really good, but I'd rather increase performance. The units look good anyway if you ask me.

I am not including Unique Units in this list, but I think only a few select units should get multiple model groups. Which would be the following units:
-Warriors
-Swordsman
-Horsearchers
-Maceman
-Knights

Beyond that, I think they should all be the same model in the group. I will make special exceptions for certain units (like Vietnam's Elephants), but in general I think if I only mixed these mesh groups I can cut out a lot of extra memory.

What do you think?

This is not related to what we have been talking about in this thread, but I figured it is more appropriate here than in the Playtest Feedback thread: Basically the mod isn't performing like I want it to. Obviously, with a mod this big there were bound to be MAF issues, but they are pretty bad right now. I think one area that I can adress is the unit models used. For many units there are three different models rather than one model. I think what I should do is cut back on these emmensely. I know, it makes the mod look really good, but I'd rather increase performance. The units look good anyway if you ask me.

I am not including Unique Units in this list, but I think only a few select units should get multiple model groups. Which would be the following units:
-Warriors
-Swordsman
-Horsearchers
-Maceman
-Knights

Beyond that, I think they should all be the same model in the group. I will make special exceptions for certain units (like Vietnam's Elephants), but in general I think if I only mixed these mesh groups I can cut out a lot of extra memory.

What do you think?

Sounds like a good idea. It might also help to both the Flavian (which is kinda neat, but given the callbacks for it... it's not worth it) and the Olympics.

This is not related to what we have been talking about in this thread, but I figured it is more appropriate here than in the Playtest Feedback thread: Basically the mod isn't performing like I want it to. Obviously, with a mod this big there were bound to be MAF issues, but they are pretty bad right now. I think one area that I can adress is the unit models used. For many units there are three different models rather than one model. I think what I should do is cut back on these emmensely. I know, it makes the mod look really good, but I'd rather increase performance. The units look good anyway if you ask me.

I am not including Unique Units in this list, but I think only a few select units should get multiple model groups. Which would be the following units:
-Warriors
-Swordsman
-Horsearchers
-Maceman
-Knights

Beyond that, I think they should all be the same model in the group. I will make special exceptions for certain units (like Vietnam's Elephants), but in general I think if I only mixed these mesh groups I can cut out a lot of extra memory.

What do you think?

I think reducing most units to a single model each is a good idea. Unfortunately most such units are early/midgame and late game is where the game uses the most memory. I'd suggest vehicles such as tanks as being a good place to make reductions: firstly they get built a lot and secondly, many are the same model but with a different paintjob or emblem on them - yet in memory terms they are counted as completely different units. In my opinion it is not as important to customize vehicles as it is human figures and realistically not that many civs make their own tanks/planes/etc, they obtain them from others.

Also I think I mentioned already that Zerver's modern units could be removed or at least have all their textures resized. Some of those units are as large memory-wise as leaderheads!

Btw, while Python code and callbacks affect game speed, they are extremely unlikely to have any effect at all on MAFs. MAFs and slowdowns are two different issues.

Well, most of the mixed units are in the early ages of the game, so they are the easiest to at least eliminate whole units with. I will try to resize texture files on the Zerver units, but I'd still like to use them. I say this all the time but I am a graphics modder, so graphics are important to me. I'd rather go with a quality unit over a shoddy unit, which I'm sure is obviously the way most people think, but sometimes I'm willing to overlook a little extra file-size to do so.

I'm in the process of cutting down the amount of models used for units in the mod as well as the texture sizes, so hopefully this can cut down a major chunk of the art in the mod. I'm hoping for a sizeable decrease in the size of the unit art for this mod. That should hopefully help performance a bit.

EDIT: Alright, I streamlined the meshgroups, now I'm going through and making all of the texture files 128 x 128 (or smaller where appropriate). This will make some units look a bit less polished, but I don't think you can really tell that well unless you are in NifSkope. This is extremely time consuming and tedious work, but hopefully it will be worth doing as it should, in theory at least, make the game run better.

This is going to take a long time. :(

Basically what I am doing is going through every single unit (and I mean model by model, folder by folder) and resizing the textures, deleting frivilous parts (I removed the sword on the Babylonian Cannonier for example) and unnecessary texture files that exist. While this is going to take forever there are a few positive things for not only this mod, but the community. The main one I can think of is the optimization of Zerver's modern units.

So far it seems to be taking around an hour (a little more or a little less depending on the civ and the units it has) per civ to accomplish. I would REALLY REALLY appreciate help with this if anyone wants to I can send you a couple of civs with some instructions on what exactly to do. You will need NifSkope (or something similar), GIMP (or something similar), and DXTbmp (again, or something similar), to effectively do this. If there are any takers on this I would be very appreciative.

Basically what I am doing is going through every single unit (and I mean model by model, folder by folder) and resizing the textures, deleting frivilous parts (I removed the sword on the Babylonian Cannonier for example) and unnecessary texture files that exist. While this is going to take forever there are a few positive things for not only this mod, but the community. The main one I can think of is the optimization of Zerver's modern units.

So far it seems to be taking around an hour (a little more or a little less depending on the civ and the units it has) per civ to accomplish. I would REALLY REALLY appreciate help with this if anyone wants to I can send you a couple of civs with some instructions on what exactly to do. You will need NifSkope (or something similar), GIMP (or something similar), and DXTbmp (again, or something similar), to effectively do this. If there are any takers on this I would be very appreciative.

Not volunteering, but I did the same thing already in my mod, i.e. resizing of oversized textures, not changing nifs though. So you might want to grab them from my mod.

I can probably help out a bit after the weekend.

I'm afraid for now I'm going to have to keep playtesting and modding to a minimum right now, as I have a month before SAT's and I need to start studying. I'll still be checking in on the forum and offering advice, but I won't be able to play the current playtest or devote too much time for the mod. I'll be back playtesting etc. after June 5.

I'm afraid for now I'm going to have to keep playtesting and modding to a minimum right now, as I have a month before SAT's and I need to start studying. I'll still be checking in on the forum and offering advice, but I won't be able to play the current playtest or devote too much time for the mod. I'll be back playtesting etc. after June 5.

That's cool man, do what you gotta do. Thanks for helping out so far, I really appreciate it.

only 4 month passed and i had the time you make a first check - i shouldn´t accept such jobs :lol: (<- text only to have 5 char )

only 4 month passed and i had the time you make a first check - i shouldn´t accept such jobs :lol: (<- text only to have 5 char )

Hm, no idea where these belong to, could you post the entire units ;)

They belong to the Legionary, Legionary Centurion, Norse Missionary, and Nordic Great Prophet from my mod, which is a work in progress.

seems sometimes and rarely i´m able (as long as i don´t confirm that i even accept the job) to be a bit quicker and don´t need some months :lol:

added an activation sequence to the worker.kfm (should be played similar to the activation of the great people), used the worker build animation (more or less only build start, the other 50 frames i did by hand) as base for the slave builds building animation. The kfm and the new kf attached (tested the kf itself in game [as replacement of the fidget sequence], but not if and how it works as activation animation), all other regular worker files are also needed

Awesome stuff Coyote, thanks a lot. I'll have to see if this works out in game.

Well, I'm still waiting on the code guy to finish up the next patch, I think there are two more after that and the next playtest will be ready. In the meantime I started working on some ethnic Great People, and I know you guys like previews so here are a few of them so far...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=257688&d=1278973149

...I am going to reskin the Asian Great Merchant, but so far I think they look pretty good, they are all simple model swaps right now. What do you guys think?

(they are a Native Scientist, Native Engineer, Asian Great Artist [I will replace the skull with the thing from the Confucian cutscene], Asian Merchant and Asian Scientist)

Lookin' good. The merchant's camel isn't permanent, right?

Actually, it is, but I can fix that. Although to what?

Actually, it is, but I can fix that. Although to what?

A horse would be more fitting. Maybe, to make it a bit unique looking, have it be based on Przewalski's Horse (make it shorter, like donkey height, give it a mohawk.)
Camels in the far east just seem a tad odd.

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time using a horse is pretty impractical. The European/Vanilla merchant has a camel, so I don't understand what the huge difference is. I am considering using different animations for him anyway.

Here are the flags you asked for.

Hittites: Sun Disk, Lion Head
Seljuk: Bow and Arrow (from that Mod in Warlords)
Khazars: Letter He

Thanks a lot. :goodjob:

Hey, The Capo, it's been a while, and I've been real busy since I am/was in the process of moving. Anyhow, since I'm starting to - slowly - end my modding hiatus, I'd just like to ask if there were any diplomacy music you'd like in the near future (or leaderhead personalities, if there's still some missing or if there are new leaders), if you still need any.

I think we're pretty good on that right now, I'm not entirely sure what music I am going to need. I'm waiting on some code right now, so in the mean-time I'm working on getting the leaderheads and units optimized.

Since I'm still awaiting some code, I decided to work on a few ethnic GP that were still missing. Here they are...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=261202&d=1282148322

There is an Asian Merchant, Scientist, and Artist. A Mesopotamian Great Engineer. And a Native American Engineer and Scientist. There are obvious problems, but I hope I can get help fixing them up for the mod, I still have to replace some parts on them, and fix some of the animations (which I am going to need help on actually). But I am trying to get at least some form of usable ethnic GP for the spots they are needed. There are plans for Indian GP, some Egyptian GP, more Middle Eastern GP, and maybe a couple European ones (including ancient).

The Chinese one is sleeping on the job!

Well, there are around three weeks left until Civ V comes out, and I think I should go ahead and admit that I probably will not be finished with this mod at that time. I am going to try my best of course, but right now I have been left in a position where I have an SDK that is missing a lot of things I wanted, and which has a lot of things that are merely there for playtesting purposes. Therefore I can't guarantee when this will be finished.

Because of this, I am just going to push out the next playtest as soon as I finish up a couple more ethnic Great People. Here is an Egyptian Engineer (I am actually surprised this was never really made before, he will be used for the Egyptians, Nubians and probably Berbers) that I have been working on:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=262649&d=1283397208

So, I guess my point is that I am going to release a playtest to a few people whenever I finish what I am working on now, after that I am going to try and get the SDK cleaned up (and maybe get the last couple things added) and then hopefully I'll be ready to release a version 1, and just update it when I can.

Capo, that looks -awesome.-
As someone that usually plays as Egypt, that especially makes me happy.

Also, even with Civ5's release, at least a couple of us will still be free to assist with playtests. I know at least one other person who's been contributing is boycotting Civ5, just can't remember who.

If there's any way we can help, just ask.

Nice unit. He looks... very serious. :goodjob:

Anyhow, even if Civ5 is out, that doesn't mean the Civ4 modders are all going to suddenly be magically destroyed. Civ3's modding community is still relatively alive, even now, so don't worry. :D

Thanks guys, I need some encouragement. There have been some setbacks with this mod. :(

Anyway, here's another Egyptian Great Person, it is the Great Artist...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=262650&d=1283399237

This is just a reskin of SeaSnake's Middle-Eastern Ancient Great Person.

Holy crap that's awesome looking! Man I can't wait now.

Wow, these are awesome! Btw, I'll still be playing CIV when CV comes out, I just have to clear out a bit of hard drive space. That's what CCleaner's for :p

I figure I haven't really updated the OP/Gallery lately, so here are a few new images from the mod. This first one is an LH made by Den, I forget who he intended him to be but I have decided to use him as Nebuchadnezzar (I slightly reskinned him), because the old Nebby wasn't really fitting in with the rest of the awesome LHs in Diplomacy II. Here he is...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263554&d=1284225278

And now we have one of the ethnic great people I have been working on. It is a Middle-Eastern Great Merchant that will be used primarily in the medieval ("Middle" in XML terminology) era. I hope you guys like him...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263555&d=1284225278

:goodjob:

Quite spiffy what you have there.

However, I didn't know the the Mayans were from the Middle East. :D

Very nice looking Nebuchadnezzar.

However, I didn't know the the Mayans were from the Middle East. :D

Yeah, I didn't know that either. Unfortunately, and I hate to call my friends out, you failed to see that the flag for the unit is Arab. So, what you said really makes no sense. :goodjob:

^Oh crap. Damn me and my absent-mindedness. :D

Unit still looks hot. :D

Okay everybody, this is going to be extremely short notice but if anyone can help me out that'd be awesome. Right now I am in the process of merging in flags-by-era and flags-by-leader to my mod. Which will delay the playtest slightly, but I think ultimately it will be more enjoyable and give the players more to test. Anyway, I need some help, particularly on finding flags (for any eras) for the following civs:

Babylon - primarily in the later eras, Renaissance to modern
Sumeria - same as Babylon
Vikings - I just need one more flag to round it out, try to avoid using white-supremist/Neo-nazi symbols
Maya - Any symbols would do here, keep in mind the Aztec flags are eagle-dominated, so try to avoid that if you can.
Mali - just need some industrial to modern stuff
Ethiopia - I have three flags I can use, one more would be nice.
China - just one ancient or medieval era flag would do
Iroquois - I have the belt flag and the one from Civ 4 Col, maybe one or two more would be good here.
Sioux - I have three flags for them right now, one more would be nice
Byzantines - Basically I am a bit unhappy with my selection here, I have the double-headed eagle (but it looks a lot like Austria's flag) and two of those Chi-Ro things or whatever they are. So maybe one or two more would be helpful.


Any of those would be great. If you find anything else you think would work for an un-listed civ that would be helpful too. Thanks, and good luck. :goodjob:

I can help for some of those. Do you want me to post up images of potential pics you may like from random stuff I find, or would you like me to edit them beforehand and then post them?

I can help for some of those. Do you want me to post up images of potential pics you may like from random stuff I find, or would you like me to edit them beforehand and then post them?

This is going to sound insane, but I'd like to have them in the next four hours if that is possible. I was supposed to have a playtest out today, but I figured this is a good reason to delay it, so I'd only like to delay it one day. If you could edit them into proper format (i.e. bicolor, civ-style, dds files) that would be great, if you can't I completely understand. But I'll take anything, you can post images, or even give verbal suggestions. I'm going to go with whatever I have when I am ready to get to this point. For now I suppose I'll work on derivative civs.

But to summarize; I'll take whatever I can get, although I'd prefer the edited images.

Alright, no problem. Understandably, I'll try to do the civs that I actually have some knowledge or background of (i.e. like China), just so that I don't give the Vikings the Lego logo or something.

Maya - Any symbols would do here, keep in mind the Aztec flags are eagle-dominated, so try to avoid that if you can.

I have a teamcolor flag with the galactic butterfly on it.

Ethiopia - I have three flags I can use, one more would be nice.

I have a teamcolor flag with the Lion of Judah, but you may have on already.

Byzantines - Basically I am a bit unhappy with my selection here, I have the double-headed eagle (but it looks a lot like Austria's flag) and two of those Chi-Ro things or whatever they are. So maybe one or two more would be helpful.
[/LIST]

For the Byzantines, I have a version of their flag, teamcolored.

I also have other flags for other civs; I was trying too make a flag pack with an alternative flag for every civ (including the barbs).

Ones I particularly like are a dutch flag with a windmill, one for aztlan with Quetzalcoatl, Egypts with the pharonic headdress, a 13 star circular motif for America, and a Persian one with the faravahar.

Alright, here's what I can do for now:

I have one for China, based on a script that was commonly used during the Qin and Han dynasties (so you can use it for Ancient or Classical era). The character, just in case you were wondering, means "Han", which either means the Han dynasty itself or the Han people (i.e. Chinese people):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263937&stc=1&d=1284574267


I also have one for the Maya, also based on their script. This one was sort of randomly chosen (a lot of their glyphs are way too complicated for a flag), but I think it means light or ancestors or something, according to wikipedia. I guess you can use it for any era from ancient to renaissance:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263938&stc=1&d=1284574267


Also, for Sumeria and Babylon, I wonder if you've seen these? They are Mesopotamian flags from a long, long time ago:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175836&highlight=mesopotamian



I'll try to see if I can get the others, but I can't guarantee it. Anyhow, hope this helps.

Alright, a couple more, although these are a bit more ad hoc:


For the Sioux, this one is based on a dreamcatcher (I do know its supposed to be relevant to some Native American cultures, including the Sioux, but I'm not sure exactly how important it is; however, it is the best I could think of that still made sense), although its slightly blurry:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263941&stc=1&d=1284574857


For the Iroquois, this one is based on lacrosse. They invented it, and I guess although it makes as much sense as having a football on America's flag, well... yeah:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263940&stc=1&d=1284574857


For the Scandinavians, I didn't do a flag, but perhaps you may consider this one, which is a combination of all the flags of all the Scandinavian countries. I don't know if it'll match their color scheme, though:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_scandinavia.png



I have to go now, so that's all I can do. If you still need some more later on in a rush, I can help make some ad hoc.

Thanks. I think I'm only going to use the Han and the Dream Catcher though. The LaCrosse one is just not appropriate for this mod. The Mayan one looks good, but the quality is a bit "digitized" so I'll avoid that one. The other two are awesome though and are going in. Those Mesopotamian flags look great, I think that should do, I'll have to look them up to see what they are though. :goodjob:

And the Viking one didn't show up.

@ Mechaerik; if you could post whatever you have that'd be greatly appreciated.

uploaded.

Thank you sir. :goodjob:

If anyone is out there I also need something for modern Mongolia.

Rhyes flag pack has a full soyombo for mongolia, that could be used.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102993&d=1131407545

Oh, here is the Scandinavian one, although I don't think it'd work for your purposes:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_scandinavia.png

This is also the Mayan glyph I based the above one on, just in case you were still thinking of maybe playing around with it:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DaySign_Ahau.svg



For the Byzantines, here are a few possibilities (I'll edit them if you like any of them):

This one is the flag of the Paleiologan Dynasty, so it probably will be best for the Renaissance era:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palaeologus_Dynasty.svg


Here's a variation of the above flag which is more complicated; might work for later eras:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_PalaeologusEmperor.svg

Okay, I have two options for the Byzantine flags. I am also going to try and get this to work right now. I am going to test it on the Americans and the Byzantines. :goodjob:

Alright guys, well apparently I will not be able to get the American and Byzantine previews up because I have to do every civ (otherwise the game crashes), which means I am going to get to work on doing that right now, then do some final edits and get the playtest up.

Since it just a lot of XML work, if you guys still want to look for flag ideas that would be helpful right now. Thanks. :goodjob:

EDIT: Speaking of flags, can someone send me the Iroquois flag from Civ4:Col? Actually, could you guys just send me all of the flags from Col?

Triple post time!

Another thing that should probably be discussed is the issue of Flags by Leader/Era. Meaning basically I can set it so that a specific leader has a specific flag during specific eras. So for instance, if I want to I could give Hitler the Swastika for his flag throughout the game (i.e. all eras) or decide that he should get it from Industrial on (so Industrial, Modern, and Future). I can do similar things for other leaders obviously.

For TESTING purposes, at this point the Greeks will just have a bunch of different flags, but I was thinking when we start making final decisions on who has what flag we could probably give a Epiran flag to Pyrrhus, a Spartan to Cleomenes, a Makedonian to Alexander and an Athenian one to Pericles. But would I give it to them for the whole game or only during certain eras? It is more complicated than it seems. So that is another thing we need to discuss.

Also sorry this delayed the playtest, I know a couple of you (at least) were looking forward to it and I really apologize. I just figured this addition is cool enough that you wouldn't mind waiting an extra night.

I think that doing that would be way too complicated, if you give them certain ones during certain eras, and certain leaders certain ones during certain eras.

I'm pretty sure Sid Meier himself said this, but keeping things simple is important.

Anyhow, I think trying to keep it simple as possible - not too simple, of course, but enough that things don't get out of hand - in this case would be better. Since this is also more of an aesethic feature, I think its also more relevant - imagine playing the game when your flag changes around like crazy and you don't have any idea whats going on.

Just my two cents.

Triple post time!

Another thing that should probably be discussed is the issue of Flags by Leader/Era. Meaning basically I can set it so that a specific leader has a specific flag during specific eras. So for instance, if I want to I could give Hitler the Swastika for his flag throughout the game (i.e. all eras) or decide that he should get it from Industrial on (so Industrial, Modern, and Future). I can do similar things for other leaders obviously.

For TESTING purposes, at this point the Greeks will just have a bunch of different flags, but I was thinking when we start making final decisions on who has what flag we could probably give a Epiran flag to Pyrrhus, a Spartan to Cleomenes, a Makedonian to Alexander and an Athenian one to Pericles. But would I give it to them for the whole game or only during certain eras? It is more complicated than it seems. So that is another thing we need to discuss.

Also sorry this delayed the playtest, I know a couple of you (at least) were looking forward to it and I really apologize. I just figured this addition is cool enough that you wouldn't mind waiting an extra night.

I'd keep it to era flags. I personally kinda like the idea of leader flags, but it works best as an either or thing.
I guess if you -do- want to, just do a few leaders. Hitler gets the swastika, Stalin gets the hammer & sicle, etc. Though I'd personally save that for that pack you talked about doing, with Nazis and the USSR as seperate civs.

Alright, here's two more flags if you want/need them.

This one is for Ethiopia, and based on the Ethiopian cross. It probably works better for the earlier eras:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263973&stc=1&d=1284598988


This one is another one for China, just in case you were dissatisfied with any you have right now. It is based on the Shang Dynasty Oracle Bone Script (or whatever it is), and, since the Shang Dynasty was the first (i.e., most ancient) dynasty whose existence is universally confirmed, it'd probably work best as an ancient era flag. The symbol means heaven or king or something similar:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263972&stc=1&d=1284598988

Did you need any ideas for Indian flags?

So far I could use an ancient Dutch (Frisian) flag, could use an Ancient or Medieval flag for Russia. And as said before some Iroquois flags (right now they are the only civ I am aware of that has only one flag). I could use some Viking flags too, Indian ones would be fine, but in general any flag would help out.

And I don't really understand what is so wrong with the flags changing as frequently as you say they will (which they won't, they only change by era whether it is by leader or not), you keep the same teamcolors and everything, I'm sure some people won't even notice their flag changed.

EDIT: I will use the Ethiopian one, the Chinese one is fine but I'd rather not overload the mod with flags.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Yarthewise.png
^Kievan Rus

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Russia01.gif
^grand ducy of Moscow

Can't use either of those, thanks though. The Kievan Rus symbol is already being used for the Ukrainian flag (so I don't want to use it for Russia too) and the Muscovy one is basically Russia's vanilla symbol so that won't really work either. :(

Anybody got some other ideas?

Here are some Russian crosses I found on Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Russian_cross.png


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/OrthodoxCross.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Croix_russe.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Emblem_of_India.svg
this and the modern day emblem of India are the only two I can find that possible. Gupta, Kushan, and Pala stuff are too complex, and all others I could think of are too heavily Hindu based (or would be best saved for a Mughal civ, or Pakistan)

What nations do you need emblem ideas/suggestions for?

I have Russia and India handled (well to my liking, the playtest will be for you guys to look at). I still need something for the ancient Vikings. I want to use a Rune, if possible, but I'm not educated on the topic enough to pick one that makes sense.

Basically I'm nearly finished, I'm on the Vikings right now and I'm going in alphabetical order.

EDIT: So far Spain and Greece seem to have the most flags.

Here's a couple random ones I found for the Vikings, dunno if you already have them or not or whether they'll work:

http://vikingrune.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/triquetra_1.jpg


http://odinsvolk.ca/images/Wolf-OVA.jpg


http://symboldictionary.net/library/graphics/symbols/triplehorn.jpg




By the way, I wonder what you have for good old 'Nam?

Unfortunately Vietnam only has three flags, and two of them are suspect at best (one is a Water Buffalo or a Musk Ox or whatever it is, I don't know animals well. The other is some random symbol Madman sent, and I'm not sure it is even Vietnamese), so I am going to need you to take a look at Vietnam actually during our playtests. I am off to try this for the first time, so wish me luck.... :crossesfingers:

The interesting thing is I'll be getting a new computer soon as a present from someone, so I may well actually be able to - besides being able to play my own mod better and also play Civ5 when it comes out (but don't worry, I won't abandon Civ4) - help you a bit more with this playtesting. :goodjob:

Just let me know what you can do, any kind of help is appreciated. :goodjob:

Well, obviously there have been a few normal issues, like some incorrect or missing tags, but the thing works like a charm and I am totally excited about this! So here is an example of one set of flags, it is the Byzantines:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=263983&d=1284610320

We are going to have a chance to comment on which flags were chosen for which eras, but for now I am going to leave all of the flags as they are unless something amazing comes up. I just want to get this over with so I can do a last playtest and then get it ready for you guys to look at. The important thing is that this part works properly and can now be utilized for our purposes. I think the next addition will really make the mod great, let's just hope he can do it. ;)

Anyway, let me know what you think.

EDIT: Notice Embryo's Varangian Guard among the Byzantine Men-at-Arms.

Looks pretty hot. :D

Anyhow, for playtesting, I don't think I'll have time to actually play a full game outright (I have my own mod to play around with, after all :mwaha:), but I still can help with other things, such as making sure the art isn't messed up (and nicking some freebies while I'm at it), and checking out civilopedia pages, that kind of stuff.