This scenario is starts around 950 AD, and the map covers Europe, north Africa and the mideast.

The civs I have used is:

Croatia, Serbia and Bulgaria
Idrisid Emirate
Byzantine empire
Emirate of Cordoba
German empire
Kiev
Castille
Scandinavia (vikings)
Holy Roman empire
France
Italy
Abbasid Khalifate
Magyar
Burgundy
Bohemia and Moravia
England

The player civ is German Empire(wich can be changed), the goal for the germans is to kick back the Magyars and the vikings and create a great empire. A good idea is to reunite with northern Italy and Rome.

The vikings, magyars and idrisids have units with secret nationality, wich makes them a little bit more aggresive and dangerous, this also simulates the kind of threat that these posed on Europe.

I hope to hear some good critics how to make it better, changes in civs, cities, units and so on.

I would also be happy if somebody has leadernames and citynames, that I have done wrong. I prefer citynames in the original language.

THIS ATTACHED FILE IS ALWAYS THE LATEST VERSION AND INCLUDES ALL CHANGES MENTIONED IN LATER POSTS!!

downloads +1995

Crap i was going to make such a scenario, though it sounds good, to bad im not at home so i cant download it. Anyway you should post a screenshot of the scenario.

do you need ptw to play this scenario? you have mentioned the vikings

you don´t need ptw (I live in Sweden, we haven´t got it yet). the civs are just the normal ones modified.

I would like to post a screenshot, but I´m too stupid, maybe someone could explain how to do it.

Yoda Power, if you have any good ideas for the scenario, don´t feel shy to post them, it yet needs more work to become any good.

I have downloaded it and i think that some more irrigation could be neded(i can only find it in france) and some of the byzantine city names are turkish they should have there greek names.

I just fixed that with irrigations and I added some cities in norht Africa. I also made the vikings forces a little bit stronger, and changed so that viking warriors have secret nationality just like magyar riders.

The Byzantine names is a good remark, and I would be grateful if you could tell me wich cities to change.

It was a great idea to make a scenario of the Dark Ages...Its pretty good.
But I would make the vikings stronger. They already mastered Iron Works in that time, and they were a threat to the rest of Europe. They should have a lot of swordsman and galleys.
Thats just my opinion, though.

I have made warriors much stronger attackers instead, only the vikings can build them and they are amphibian and have hidden nationality, wich is supposed to meke them a treath to the other nations. I also think that the warriors look like vikings with axes.

maybe I should give the vikings more units to start with, so that they become more threatening from the beginning.

I didnt realize warriors are stronger in your scenario... That makes it correct...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/medel.jpg

I changed some things in the scenario.

The vikingships was not supposed to look like frigates so I changed them back to Galleys. Idrisids can also build galleys, wich are supposed to be saracen pirates.

the magyar riders are a little weaker and they have fewer units.

the vikings have more units.

Bohemia/moravia is a little stronger since they kept being killed by magyars.

I put some more cities in the mideast.

Great scenario, but the iron and coal currently just north of the Magyars (Real-life Slovakia) should be in Bohemia-Moravia (Bohemia, or Czech Republic, is rich in iron and coal, but Slovakia has very little, hence their current economic status). Also, did you mean for the Holy Roman Empire to only control Rome?

The holy roman empire is the papal states in Italy while the german empire is controled the emperor, the emperor in germany and the pope wasn´t always friends and I made two countries, even though I believe that the emperor had some power over Rome and even northern Italy.

thanks for the tips about bohemia, the coal isn´t so important for my scenario but I will change the iron.

No problem, actually, in a multi-player (PTW) scenario, the fact that there are "two" Holy Roman Empires might be interesting, if you are like me and love to meddle in the politics of other countries.
Maybe, though, you should give the Papal states a few more cities so that they are not simply annihilated by the Italians, who should be very weak.

maybe the papal states could have one more city. there isn´t really two holy roman empires, the empire was splitted already and the emperor conrolled only the lands norh of the alps. northern italy was also in theory a part of the empire.

the problem in the scenario at the moment are actually that the magyars annihilate the italians north of rome rather than that rome gets annihilated. the magyars will be weaker in next version.

i think that i have understand it that PTW will make it somewhat possible to edit diplomacy, and then the pope could get very good diplomatic statuses with most christian countries, wich would make them stronger.

No diplomacy changing in PTW, unless I heard wrong.

Anyway, keep up the good work! Pretty engrossing scenario, hope you keep tweaking it for us. :)

:rolleyes:

I have now updated the file and I consider this scenario totally finished now. Post comments anyway if you find something that needs to be changed.
If you liked this scenario, please have a look at my Arabia scenario, wich could be said to be the prequel to this one.

Originally posted by Scurcus
I have now updated the file and I consider this scenario totally finished now. Post comments anyway if you find something that needs to be changed.
If you liked this scenario, please have a look at my Arabia scenario, wich could be said to be the prequel to this one.
It's good I like it a lot. Is this set in the Early Medieval period? I just wondered why you didn't include some Bulgarians, Poles or Turks. A couple of minor things tho' I got rather confused about the alternative civ names e.g., Arabs, Andalusians, Vikings, Hungarians - when someone declared war on the Arabs I wasn't sure if that was the Abbasids or Idrisids or the other lot in Spain?! :crazyeye: That's just my ignorance tho' and it adds flavour to the game. I think there might be a typo in the civ name for Crtia, Serbia etc - shouldn't that be "Croatia". Also, I found some of the civs quite easy to defeat by steamrolling over their Spearmen with Knights - couldn't you give each city more than 1 defender or give them a stronger counter attacking threat with more offensive units? I liked the hidden nationality of the Vikings it makes it a neccessity to conquer Rouen quickly rather than try to abosrb it culturally.

The holy Roman empire was Germanic peoples and conquered also parts of Italy

Originally posted by Archimedes

I just wondered why you didn't include some Bulgarians, Poles or Turks. Also, I found some of the civs quite easy to defeat by steamrolling over their Spearmen with Knights - couldn't you give each city more than 1 defender or give them a stronger counter attacking threat with more offensive units?

Thanks!!

The bulgarians are in the game but they are together with Croatia and Serbia, and you are right, ofcource it should be Croatia.

Maybe I could put in some more defenders in some of the cities, the thing is that I don´t want to put in to much units (it´s slow enough to load) and some countries are supposed to be weak.

The idea about Holy roman empire and german empire is that I wanted both the emperor and the pope in the game as they were both powerful men in europe, none of them considered each other as their superior. I hope this can compensate the fact that there is two countries that should be one. my idea was also that the pope would work as some kind of diplomatic center for the christian countries, but that wont work since PTW wont let me edit diplomacy.

Originally posted by Scurcus

The bulgarians are in the game but they are together with Croatia and Serbia, and you are right, ofcource it should be Croatia.


I'm not too sure about that grouping as the Bulgars were quite distinct and called their leaders Khans.
Originally posted by Scurcus

Maybe I could put in some more defenders in some of the cities, the thing is that I don´t want to put in to much units (it´s slow enough to load) and some countries are supposed to be weak.

I didn't realise it slowed the load and I accept that some countries should be weaker.
Originally posted by Scurcus

The idea about Holy roman empire and german empire is that I wanted both the emperor and the pope in the game as they were both powerful men in europe, none of them considered each other as their superior.

I like the fact that you've got both in - you've paid a lot of attention to detail and historical accuracy and for me that makes it more enjoyable to play. I think I may try playing as the Pope - that would make for a real challenge. Maybe I'll give them more money to start with so they can buy alliances when neccessary.

Originally posted by Archimedes


I'm not too sure about that grouping as the Bulgars were quite distinct and called their leaders Khans.



You are right in that the Bulgars deserve a civ of their own just as the magyar and vikings, but Civilizatin III only alows a certain number of nations and thats the primary reason that I made this grouping. Maybe I could see if the Serbs and Croatians could be grouped with someone else.

maybe i am wrong, but
as far as i know you can play more than 16 at once civ with PtW. If you don't want to make your scenario only playable for PtW, at least make a PtW-version with more civs.
I suggest to include Poland, and divide Croat-Serb and Bulgar people. At least.
And if you use english terms, i think it would be better to use Hungary / Hungarians instead of Magyar. Just for the sake of transparency.

BTW, why have you weakened the Hungarians? I think it is absolutely no problem if they defeating the czechs early. :)

But if you want to use Magyar, here's some correct translation:

Hungary - Magyarorszag
Hungarian Kingdom - Magyar Kiralysag
Hungarian - Magyar

thanks Hagen, I think it looks better with original names.

PTW was suposed to come last friday here in Sweden yet (has it been released in hungary??) I think it will come this friday, then maybe I will make a version with more civs.

I didn´t want the magyars to beat the czecks in the first turn, it seemed a little bit pointless to have the czecks at all then, and in history I don´t think they did that, so I made it a little bit harder for the magyars.

Thanks for the reply. I'm happy if i could help a bit.

About the czechs: it was a joke. I like them, and dont want them to be wiped out every time.

BTW, do you know how to pronounce the 'gy' in the word magyar? It is close to the 'd', sounds like in the english word 'during'. Sorry if you have already known it, but I have a norwegian-hungarian (born in norway) friend who lives here for many years but still have difficulties with pronouncation of some words. Stupid laguage is it, the hungarian. :)

thats very true.

Love the game.... but the game freezes up when building a wonder..... says "text\pedialcons.txt.":wonders_splash_30" any ideas. Thanks

Leon should be Castille or Spain
the Idrisid emirate and Cordoba could be joined together then you can add another civ like Seljuks or Poland

Not bad, I am making a medieval Europe scenario of my own, but I am using my own Europe map (which can be downloaded in the maps section, its called seurope under the thread huge europe map, i think). The map of Europe you used is kind of odd- it looks really squashed and there are hills where their really shouldn't be(no hills around London or east of Magdeburg for example). Also, there is a lot of empty desert in the Sahara. Good job with most of the city names.

If you are going to split up the Holy Roman Empire make Germany and Italia the names. Holy Roman Empire could be substituted for Germany, because like someone has all ready pointed out the Holy Roman Empire was for the sake of not going into a big discussion of politics of the time Germany (there was a difference though). Italia on the other hand had not been firmly under the Empires control since before Barbarossa (In fact one of his goals was to gain control of Northern Italy, but he never really did). Also Leon should not be changed to Castile or Spain. Castile was a revolter from Leon and was reunited with Leon through Dynastical ties later on, so if any change is needed Castile-Leon should be the name, and Spain was not created until much much later. All in all though it is a very nice scenario, thanks:goodjob:

What the hell is "Luna" in Italy???

good scenario.

I have made some changes to this scenario.

One big change is to science, now all techs are linear and the civilized countries have all ancient ones and some medieval while the uncivilized ones (vikings, magyar and bulgars) are in the beginning of the ancient ones. this will prevent them from evolving too much and primarily prevents their cities from changing graphics.

other change is Leons name now is Castille, as you wanted Helium Hound.

I also consider German empire the best player civ, since they are in a little bit more challenging position in the beginning.

hanging gardens are now Kaaba, wich actually was meant from the beginning.

I have also changed the governments, since everybody discovered republic in the start and then changed to it. now republic are empire and is supposed for the big ones (byzantines and abbasids), it has communal corruption. Democracy are teocracy and suites only a very small country(rome), it has high trade but smaller production and enormous corruption.

trades with contact is not possible, it´s the dark ages after all.

lag, double post. sorry.

The Magyars by this time were Christianized and basically were "civilized". The Bulgars I wouldn't consider as "uncivilized" either, and ditto for the Vikings. They just weren't quite as advanced in technology.

The time period you're talking about had ALOT of trade! Dark Ages did not mean no trade, and the Dark Ages technically was about 500 AD to 950 AD or so.

a just wanted to limit the speed that contacts are spread, traveling over the continent took a long time and knowledge about the more remote parts of europe were small.

and about civilized and uncivilized, it was just to distinguish between diferent kind of civilizations in the scenario.

Interesting scenario.

Great map, good plot & design. Genuinely challenging, as you start out at #6 in population and not in the top 3. But very winnable. Some great ideas here (hidden nationality for Scandinavians, Magyars, etc.), and very nice overall.

I have to admit I was a little frustrated by some of the rule modifications that didn't make much sense to me. No libraries until the age of Invention, no Sun Tzu's academy until military tradition, no pikemen until the end of the middle ages, and so on. The tech tree was somewhat nonsensical (requiring about 15 middle age advances to get to democracy, for example) and the tech stagnation (long minimum research time) meant that achieving basic middle age units like Pikeman was impossible until very late in the game if at all. I wouldn't have minded the tech tree if it was well-integrated, but it wasn't, and no clear rationale or explanation was given for drastic game-altering changes. The historal basis of some of these alterations was also unclear. These frustrations took away quite a bit from my enjoyment of the scenario. I've made a modified version for PTW restoring most of the rules, improvements, tech tree, etc. to normal & also adding medieval infantry. Settlers are now buildable too.

There may be still some anomalies which I missed, but overall, I found this modified version much more playable. Good work in sum, and I hope that this improves upon it for those who enjoy the more standard aspects of Civ III.

Addendum: Also normalized government functions and communications, and redistributed map resources as no rubber was found on the original map. Added a Polish civilization.

Attached file for PTW: MiddleAgeGermany.zip

WoundedKnight

I don´t have PTW so I can´t try your modifications, but I´m sure their great.

I agree that some of my changes aren´t very great but I had some reasons for most of them, often merely esthetic. for example the techtree changes are often becase I didn´t want some tech wich I don´t think fit into the dark ages of the medeveal, democracy for example and libraries. I didn´t want research to be an important part of this scenario. the tech tree is totally linear so there is just one way and the undeveloped countries can´t become much more developed.
the fact that i don´t have any pikemen are that they are too good, but i have thought of just changeing it a bit and put it back.

i have explained the changes to goverments and other things in a post above but thanks for your coments anyway WoundedKnight.

Tech stagnation is sometimes appropriate, but if you make extensive modifications to the tech tree, they should at least be explained in a readme file. If you're in the middle ages, one would think that one should at least be able to build libraries (you can't) and harbors (you can't) and aqueducts (also can't). It's a bit frustrating to find major and dramatic changes like this that one recognizes only well into the game.

IMO, the most straightforward way to create tech stagnation is simply to up the tech paradigms for the world size -- increase by 2, 5, 10, or whatever you want. Or to increase the minimum research time dramatically. It's easy to do, and easy to undo, and doesn't produce undesired or unexpected (by the player) effects dramatically altering other aspects of gameplay.

Regardless, a nice piece overall.

The time period you're talking about had ALOT of trade! Dark Ages did not mean no trade, and the Dark Ages technically was about 500 AD to 950 AD or so.

Unfortuately Civ is not really about trade. It is about war and building the same boring city improvements over and over again. See my sign for something better.



(1) Why can I only play with the Germans

(2) As dutch myself I like the fact you put dorestad in it

(3) Why don't I get the entire map from the first turn

(4) Like the fact that there are a lot of forrests in it

I know there was trade but what I meant was that there shouldn´t be too much techtrade, maptrade and so on, as a matter of fact, most people in europe at this time didn´t know much of the rest of the continent.

and to your questions. Yes you can play as wich civ you want, but you have to change playerciv in civedit to do so. this is actually very simple, just open the scenario in civedit and click on playerdata in the menu on top of the screen, and then you unmark playerciv for the germans and mark it for whatever civ you want.

you don´t get the map for one main reason, civ can´t do it. and also I think it´s not so bad, after one or two turns you will anyway have your closests neighbors maps, and the rest is there to discover.

of course Dorestad is in, it was a very important city at that time. besides from that I think netherlands feels a little bit empty, but I didn´t want to make the germans too strong.

I haven´t made the map, but I did actually put in more forrest, europe was a lot more covered in forrests before industrialisation.

Thank you for having Bohemia-MORAVIA! I often feel like the only Moravian Czech in the US with all the Bohemian rubbish going round.

Catholic peasant Czechs for life!

Oh, by the way, there should be some Oasises in North Africa, they were crucial to trade and also there were caravan routes through the deserts at that time which could travel from Timbuktu to Addis Abeba or even Aden in under two months. So there should be some North African roads.

Scandinavia (vikings) hmmm why should they start whit warriors? why cant they instead start whit berserkirs? this is PTW scenario right?

sorry, it´s not ptw, so you have to pretend that the warriors are berserkirs or something

I have changed the techtree back to the original, with some modification though. it should work better now.
also added a town, Cagliari in sardinia wich I gave to abbasids though Im not sure this is totaly correct.

Scurcus...i had made some changes with scenarios, about lidders names...

thanks, i will check them out soon.

Ok... First off, I'm sorry to bring up such an old thread...

But I was looking at the midieval scenarios, and the whole time I kept seeing misconceptions for Bulgaria. Here are some maps that show Bulgaria's boundries (and years of course).

Also, together with the Serbs and the Croats? Bulgarians and Croats have VERY little in common. And Bulgarians and Serbs are almost always at odds with each other during the middle ages, and even in "modern history". They have also invaded each other countless times...

Bulgaria is the ugly brown country...

Here is a map at the birth of Danube Bulgaria in 681 with Asparuh (Brown country):

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2bg681.jpg

Bulgaria in the year 707 under Tervel:

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2bg707.jpg

Here is Bulgaria under Krum (814 AD), first of the Bulgarian leaders to besiege Constantinople (Note: Krum extends Bulgaria's boundry to the line shown):

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2bg814.jpg

Bulgaria under Tzar Simeon (917), this is different than my map from Bulgarian sources as it shows Simeon with holdings well to the east of the Balkans (Simeon holds sway over the areas up to the lines drawn).

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2bg917.jpg

Bulgaria under Tzar Samuil (976):

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2bg927.jpg

Bulgaria under Tzar Ivan Assen II (1241):

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/2sest12.jpg

Bulgarian peasants repel the Golden Horde and put the "Swineherd" Tzar Ivailo on the throne 1307 (Hard to see, but you know where to look for it ;)): Actually, here there are 3 Bulgarian Kingdoms, all considering themselves Bulgarian, but not in a unified state.

http://www.freepgs.com/levski/Art/bg1307sm.jpe

These are very good maps of my opinion, and not just of Bulgaria.

And please note, even though these maps say that Bulgaria is a Khanate, it is not!!! No one has established a connection with 'han' and Bulgars (or Bulgarians) in the Azov or Danube area. The only titles recorded are
1. Patricia (for Kubrat)
2. Kniaz (multiple rulers)
3. Kesar (Tervel)
4. KANASUBIGI for Omurtag - he actually put it himself the title for Bulgarians could be either KANA or KANASUBIGI
5. Tsar (From Boris onward untill Ottoman domination)
- no one has proven Han as a title.


Ok, enough of my rattling... It's a well-made scenario and its the Bulgarian's fault for not making the history of Bulgaria better understood.

I have made some changes to this scenario.

One big change is to science, now all techs are linear and the civilized countries have all ancient ones and some medieval while the uncivilized ones (vikings, magyar and bulgars) are in the beginning of the ancient ones. this will prevent them from evolving too much and primarily prevents their cities from changing graphics.

Uncivilized :confused: I can give you many valid sources showing that at least the Bulgarians had a well-organized country, and by the 1200's had major trading centers in it.

Technologically, the Bulgarians had the most accurate calendar as well, even more accurate than the one used today.

Also, the Bulgarians weren't just the Bulgar ethnos (which migrated from central asia). The majority of it was actually the people that already lived there (i.e. the Thracians) and the Slavs, who had also just migrated there.

And Ancient civilization? Bulgaria fell under Ottoman rule late 14th century or early 15th century (depends on your source).

Gah! :) This is not a history forum! */me slaps himself*

I must agree with you Levski!Serbia and Bulgaria were almost always rivals!
Middle ages,WWI,WWII.!But when Ottomans conquered Emperor Dushan's coutry(Emperor Dushan-Tzar na bugarite,srbi i grtzite) Serbs Croats and Bulgarians were fighting against Turks everyone for himself except Balkan wars!Do you agree?This scenario needs to be modified!

This scenario is almost coplied from EU or Europa Universalis> I recommened teh following: take out tetonic and replace with Papal states> Algeris out and Duchy of Athens in.I admit i'm baised towards the mediterrean but this would be fun.

Also if anyone knows how to change the flag or leaderhead in game in diplomacy please tell me cause have a Islm flag for Papal is weird(In game remember not in set up where I just changed the art)

Huh?...oops this is supposed to be in the renaissance europe tread...check it out!!!

Dude this secarnio is outdated and obsolute in time and effort. I mean it's good for it's era which was in the days of civ3 but now it's all about custom units, borders and terrian. Everyone should check out the Renaissance Europe and be amazed at the colorful custom borders terrain and units.

I´m sorry if I have hurt all of you Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats and all other nationalities as well by doing a scenario that offended your history. The reason it was done this way was primarilly for technical reasons, for example limited number of nations. However, the game was made a long time ago and there are probably better mideval scenarios out there and if there aren´t any, make one.

i just played this for like 12 hours. for soem reason it started me out as the spanish but i dont have the civ editor so i didnt do anything. but the spanish point of view is funt o play. i pushed the moor guys out of mainland spain in like 10 turns of war after i build up my army by a lot but the cities kept getting defected back to the moors(the dark blue guys). i though that cities larger than size 6 could not be defected..they kept defecting all the small ones every 3 or 4 turns and then they started to defect cities that were size 8 and 10 and 11. eventualy all the moor cities defected back to the dark blue guys which was very very very annoying and also odd. arnt the "moor" cities spanish cities that were conquered? i have a mac os 9.1 so i dont know how to use the civ3 editor but is there a way to place spanish citizens in cities controlled by the moors? that way once you capture them you can actualy hold them for more than a few turns.

also...did you mean to put a marine unit in one of the viking cities?

It`s funny scenario!!I`m looking the map and i can`t fine roads and irrigations in the territory of Bulgaria!!!You think that bulgarians are "Uncivilized "?! There is books ,encyclopedia,internet...You can check that in this period Bulgaria was one of the most organized country in Europe.And one more thing:You MUST separate Bulgaria and Serbia!You must respect countries that have more than 1300 years history!