View Full Version : Barbs everywhere in PTW


whodat
Nov 07, 2002, 06:15 AM
I started my first game of PTW last night. I started on Regent roaming barbarians using the Vikes. I am at about 400 AD now and barbarians are worse than I have ever encountered in Civ 3. I had 8 horsemen rushing my capital which is well defended, 3 roaming outside my borders, and 4 rushing a minor city. Barbarian camps keep appearing also. I have a few warriors roaming around taking out camps, so I do get 25 gold every once in a while. Anybody else had a similar experience?

sealman
Nov 07, 2002, 06:35 AM
Barbarians... gotta love them.

whodat
Nov 07, 2002, 06:40 AM
Another strange thing about the same game. Since Vikes are expansionist I expected many techs from goody huts but only got ceremonial burial from huts. I received about 6 or 7 skilled warriors and gold from a couple huts.

NHJ BV
Nov 07, 2002, 07:06 AM
Gotta love them "skilled" warriors...:rolleyes:

Conscript warrior skilled? Now if they would give me an elite warrior...:)

sumthinelse
Nov 07, 2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by whodat
Another strange thing about the same game. Since Vikes are expansionist I expected many techs from goody huts but only got ceremonial burial from huts.

What size map? What difficulty level?

Drakken
Nov 07, 2002, 07:38 AM
I was playing as the Aztechs with Barbs set to raging. I always play with them set to raging so I have a good frame of reference. However in PTW the barbs went nutzo.

I was on an island continent full of mountains, hills, and 1 other civ. The terrain slowed the settlement of the territory so that may have helped spawn more barbs. When they had a massive uprising all hell broke loose. There were I believe 5 camps that each released 8 to 12 horsemen. Holy shmoly!:eek: I had only just researched ironworking. There was utter chaos. workers had to be protected by atleast 2 spearmen to prevent capture.

The barbs also seemed smarter to me. No longer did they waste themselves on my spears in the cities. They roamed around waiting for targets of opportunity. It was wacky! Thank god for all of the gold I collected from them or all would have been lost!

I think they adjusted the setting for PTW, and to be honest I like it. In the past raging meant really very little as they never created a challenge like this game had.:D

joycem10
Nov 07, 2002, 07:46 AM
I really like the new barbs in PTW.

Like mentioned above they are alot smarter than in the past. Instead of beelineing right for the nearest city and wasting tmeselves on gortified defenders they roam around the board. They will avoid difficult targets like spearmen fortified on hills and mountains. They also seem to pillage quite a bit more than in the past.

CurtSibling
Nov 07, 2002, 08:03 AM
In the editor,
decrease your unit's power versus barbs, for each dificulty level...
Our white garbed pals become a royal threat to all and sundry,

I had a city with 6 spearmen in defence and the barbs made mincemeat out of em!

Trust me, it's a nightmare!

DaDoo
Nov 07, 2002, 09:19 AM
I think the fact that now barbs just won't march into the closest battle like lambs to a slaughter house is a huge improvement. Also because of that, it'll appear we have more barbs around since many of them are roaming around looking for a weak target instead of going on a suicide mission. It's now quite dangerous to have settlers unescorted walking around with barbs now literally "roams" around the map. Sometimes even the workers near cities need escorts. It's a major improvement and I like it. :)

tcjsavannah
Nov 07, 2002, 09:28 AM
I noticed the "uprising" means there's a ton of barbs in ALL camps on the continent, not just one.. that was a major pain in my first PTW game.

Took me down from ~750 gp to ~150 in like two turns..

Le Petit Prince
Nov 07, 2002, 01:44 PM
Are they much more or just intelligent....

cgannon64
Nov 07, 2002, 01:49 PM
So, you were in 400AD? Remember, whenever a second civ enters the Midevial ages, there is a worldwide barb uprising. That is probably what happened.

CG

Padma
Nov 07, 2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Le Petit Prince
Are they much more or just intelligent.... Firaxis said they tweaked the AI so it won't simply suicide against your fortified troops - they will split up, and search for your weak points.

Definitely "more intelligent". ;)

Chieftess
Nov 07, 2002, 01:57 PM
I was playing a standard earth map (modified scenario with correct starting locations), and the Americas had TONS of barbs roaming around. (which prevented Japan from colonizing it, and making contact with the rest of the world!). It probably kept their techs down low... (430AD, and most are in mid-antiquity). I'm in the mid middle age. :) I guess it's a bit realistic in a way...

Sparrowhawk
Nov 07, 2002, 02:02 PM
The more barbarians the better, as far as I am concerned. I've edited my games so that they get less of a handicap. It's a great way to temper AI expansion.

I'm also thinking of replacing the standard Horseman unit that they get with a 3/2/2 White Dragon. That should make things interesting :D I figure that mythical dragons go along well with mythical 'barbarian' cultures. Besides, the way I set up the dragon a/d/m, they won't be destroyed easily until the advent of Knights.

Silverflame
Nov 07, 2002, 04:12 PM
Usually the barbarians are smarter in PTW. However, I have found one encampment do something stupid. My warrior was roaming around dispersing encampments, then I was two squares away from one. There was a Celt warrior next to it that was about to disperse it. Then the huge stack of doom came. But instead of attacking the Celt warrior, they all went some other direction, leaving no one but their warrior to defend their home. The Celts quickly got it. Man, if I were those barbarians, I would have sent half the horsemen to kill the Celt warrior and the other half to kill mine. This is strange...

whodat
Nov 07, 2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by sumthinelse


What size map? What difficulty level?

Standard, Regent level. Normal climate. Pangea. 70%.

Bamspeedy
Nov 07, 2002, 06:19 PM
Prima's strategy guide says that now the barbarians will not attack if they have less than a 20% chance of winning the battle. That is why they seem to be smarter and don't attack spearman on mountains for example. The higher levels you play, the less combat bonus you get vs barbs, so you will probably see barbs attacking more often (instead of wandering away, probably going after some AI worker off in the distance) , the higher level you go.

I haven't really noticed a difference in huts for expansionists. Playing with 30 civs (huge pangea map, but with that many civs, it's kind of crowded) and building a bunch of scouts I got over 10 techs. on Monarch. I don't like getting the cities from huts, I prefer the settlers. I hate getting a city 1 tile away from a coast :mad:, but I guess it is a little better than no city/settler at all.

sumthinelse
Nov 07, 2002, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by whodat


Standard, Regent level. Normal climate. Pangea. 70%.

Subject: By 400 AD your scandanavian civ only got one tech from goody huts.

OK, how many scouts did you build? How many other civs were there, and how many of them were expansionist? If you opened 30 goody huts with an expansionist civ the odds of getting less than 2 techs should be about 0.00004, or 1 in 25000. If you only opened 10 huts by 400AD, the odds should be 0.09 (1 in 11), of getting less than 2 techs, which would be a lot easier to believe.

Cantankerous
Nov 07, 2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by cgannon64
So, you were in 400AD? Remember, whenever a second civ enters the Midevial ages, there is a worldwide barb uprising. That is probably what happened.

Are you being serious, or is this an inside joke? (I'm asking seriously.) I've never heard of this. Is this something new for PTW or is it something that I've just been oblivious of all this time?

__________

Regarding the new barbarians actions in PTW, I like their new ways as well. Less predictable means more challenging and more interesting outcomes.

Funny thing though, a barbarian horseman went out of its way to attack a healthy veteran Numidian Mercenary (not fortified) in a forest when there was a fortified Horseman with only one hit point in a tile adjacent to the barbarian.

I thought that was odd.

Sultan Bhargash
Nov 07, 2002, 11:52 PM
I liked opening a hut full of barbs with a conscript Korean warrior and having them all run away instead of fighting. Same thing happened later with my king.

Even wierder, the king was right outside a Chinese city once and they didn't just kill him.

jack merchant
Nov 08, 2002, 03:03 AM
Cantankerous: he was serious. When this happens, you should get a message saying: we have heard rumours of a massive barbarian uprising near .... . Depending on the difficulty level, every hut spawns a certain number of barbarians. I was once attacked by 48 horsemen total from 4 different directions :eek:

The Last Conformist
Nov 08, 2002, 06:28 AM
Once had ~24 Barb Horsmen running into a size 1 city defended by a single Spearman, when having about 30 gold in my treasury. I got mighty tired of seeing the "barbs stole 1 gold" message 20+ times ...

Sultan Bhargash
Nov 08, 2002, 11:43 AM
Another poster I have forgotten who came up with the concept of a "barbarian farm" - leaving part of your local area dark so that barbs spring up and using barb combat to advance your units to elite status. I like that idea.

Sparrowhawk
Nov 08, 2002, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Another poster I have forgotten who came up with the concept of a "barbarian farm" - leaving part of your local area dark so that barbs spring up and using barb combat to advance your units to elite status. I like that idea.
A barbarian farm can also be a good cash cow in the ancient and middle ages.

cracker
Nov 08, 2002, 02:12 PM
Here's a screen shot of a barb farm before we had the wall to wall carpet installed:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/barb_farm.jpg

The current crop of cannon fodder is to the right near the logo watermark.

It is key to remember that barbs are like mushrooms, they grow best in the dark so you you need to get in, whack em, and then get out so the new crop will grow. The best farm has roads and some railroads by the time you get to the later game.

Farms are more valuable in the earlier game because the camp bounty does not go up from 25 gold per massacre.

In the early game, your idiot allies and enemies will keep messing up your barb farm with stupid worthless settlements if you do not blockade your own roads.

Cantankerous
Nov 08, 2002, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by jack merchant
Cantankerous: he was serious. When this happens, you should get a message saying: we have heard rumours of a massive barbarian uprising near .... . Depending on the difficulty level, every hut spawns a certain number of barbarians. I was once attacked by 48 horsemen total from 4 different directions :eek:

Learn sumpin' new every day...

I've had many occasions where I got a message about massive barbarian uprisings, but I never put two and two together to realize that it had anything to do with a second civ entering the Medieval Age.

Thanks for the info!

JonathanValjean
Nov 09, 2002, 04:44 PM
Anytime the AI gets more intelligent, barbarians included, the better! Also, like Cantankerous, I had not made the connection that the barbarian uprisings were triggered by a second civ entering the Medieval Age. Thanks guys!