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BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 06:16 AM
Why? Blub is logged in, and he can say it.Yes, i'm logged and for a long time since i was called and i forgot to log out. Sorry.

I made a count of our units, so i can draft my war plan.
Mavs recaptured the city, but probably the vote arrived in the IBT, so we were eligibile to vote. Not clear why they choose that resolution.

When logging i've seen Ama asking to exchange WMs, so i accepted.

I moved the lightly damaged EI to the coast, close to the 2 barb galleys. If they attack it will gain his XP.
Moved the EI with our retrating troops to arrive in the coast tile S of Vega.
I also reversed the queue in Canopus, so the EI will be completed before the WE.

I'd like to see 2 settlers out of Arcturus and Vega. They can produce them in 4 turns, Vega with some MM.

Later i'll post my war plan.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 06:48 AM
Why should our main military towns build settler? We build them in Rigel. The settler 'll whipp this turn, then we build a lh with overlay, and grow with building a lib, then whipp the next settler.

Why are the units going south of vega on land and not at the army point? What is the reason for this move? Is this the decision you must make best quick?
There is at least 10-15 hours for our turn so there is no reason to move units at first time anybody logged in.

How long, you think, Quat can hold the iron-hill? When has arrived our time to attack?

Has Quat galleons left the Quat isle or not? I 've seen not.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 07:02 AM
Should Arc build a WE now? Why this? Without stable this is stupid. We 've now 2 towns which can build mounted units. other towns only, if there is a danger.

BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 07:09 AM
Before answer to all HUSch questions, this is the list of our present units:
4 EI, 2 carav
5 cat, 2 treb
6 archer, 3 war
2 HA
7 Mace, 1 Pike

all the archers and warriors are busy in MP duties and 1 mace too. I think it's better keep hims where he is and add an archer. There's a warrior in Sirius which can be moved in the new city.

my first wave proposal:
4 WE, 2 HA, 6 maces, 2Xbows, 4 cats, 2 trebs to be boarded in 5 EIs.
Ready to join: 2 archers, 1 mace, 1 pike, 1 cat.
This is a minimal stack, be warned. We need a lot more to seriously think to wipe Mavs.

Another EI to ferry units from Sol/Anjen to Bode.

Why settlers instead of military? Because we need more cities!
Settling the Whale and the Incense/fort cities we gain 2 luxuries, even if the cities themselves are a bit weak. Then we can settle our 2 strongest, but less strategic (for now) cities.
Waiting now to take the Mavs is not a big deal. Waiting to settle the cities is, since the soon they are settled, the soon they can start build a minimal infrastructure and military.

I'm tired to recommend to start some Diplo with our allies. We need to know when they think to research Feud, and we also need to define with Amazon our common startegy until the end of the NAP. And maybe to see what they think on extending this, is we're interested in doing so.

Trystero, you are one of our diplomats.

Irgy, you are the diplomat for Amazon. BTW, i don't see you much active. Can you please tell us if you're busy or if you've lost interest?

LordParkin, where are you? You're the most experienced multi player on this team, not to mention you're the founder. Can we count on you?

BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 07:34 AM
Should Arc build a WE now? Why this? Without stable this is stupid. We 've now 2 towns which can build mounted units. other towns only, if there is a danger.I haven't touched any Bode city. BTW, we'd better build a chariot after the GLib in Sirius to have a unit to attach to our first GG when he will arrive.
I suppose you all know the benefits to have super medic when at war. And a chariot is a great choice, 'cause it will never defend the stack but it can be used for some mop-up.

Medic3+morale is just great.

AlphaShard
Dec 19, 2010, 08:27 AM
Would GG+Theology insure 5th level unit for HE? Also make sure Sirius has stable and barracks.

BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 08:59 AM
Would GG+Theology insure 5th level unit for HE? Also make sure Sirius has stable and barracks.I've not cheked, but HUSch posted we must build mounted in Sirius and Canopus.
I any case, the GG alone when attached is enough for the HE. I think that Vega or Arct are the best candidates for that.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 09:28 AM
See I it right the first general is for Medic-chariot (a good idea often used), then we 've a unit >4. grade, this is enough for HE, we need for this a unit with 10XP. Theo gives 2, a general as instruteur gives additional 2, with 5 from stable/barracks, we get then only 9 XP.

We 've in the moment in Can and AC stables, build before we get the HA.

Blub I 've not say, you 've done anything. Someone has chosen this, and my question was, why.

Your chosen army is very bad in defence,

If we need settler, we can build they, Procyon is in some turns ready to assist in this; but why should we found cities, which need more than necessary instead of some, which don't?
The whale-towns is at the end of Bode, in Anjen the position is for Ama, if I remember right the last messages to/from them. What is the benefit from whale, 1 luck, we don't 've a need of luck, that we must give a settler for that.

BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 10:22 AM
See I it right the first general is for Medic-chariot (a good idea often used), then we 've a unit >4. grade, this is enough for HE, we need for this a unit with 10XP. Theo gives 2, a general as instruteur gives additional 2, with 5 from stable/barracks, we get then only 9 XP.

We 've in the moment in Can and AC stables, build before we get the HA.

Blub I 've not say, you 've done anything. Someone has chosen this, and my question was, why.

Your chosen army is very bad in defence,

If we need settler, we can build they, Procyon is in some turns ready to assist in this; but why should we found cities, which need more than necessary instead of some, which don't?
The whale-towns is at the end of Bode, in Anjen the position is for Ama, if I remember right the last messages to/from them. What is the benefit from whale, 1 luck, we don't 've a need of luck, that we must give a settler for that.The only way to use the first GG is to attach him to a unit.
You must be careful in having only the chosen unit in the tile with the GG, then he will give 20 XP to that unit. Out of the barracks+stable a chariot (not a HA, too strong) will have 5 XP, enough for C1+M1.
Then, attached to a GG he will arrive to 25/26: M2+M3 (this last is possible only when attached to a GG). Once we use it to take the last injured unit after our siege it will gain the 1XP needed for Morale. 3 moves are just great, both for mop up and to join a newly conquered city or big stack.

For the rest: growth is power! With more luxuries we can grow our cities larger, or whip more often. With more cities we increase our production and research capabilities.
The whales city will give us not only a luxury, but 3C from the oasis and 5 from the whaling boats, more than enough to pay for its maintenance.
Same for the incense/fort city. Not only the fort, which we need, and a new luxury but great commerce from working the plantations. Incense on plains is like gold.

The other 2 cities can be production powerhouses, but i see them less strategic.

Weak on defense? You can be right, mine was minimal force. With a 6th EI involved we can immediately ferry 2 archers+2Xbows. But we delay the attack. We can see how things evolve, then decide.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 12:34 PM
Why are 8 enough for maintenance? Make a test. How many pop do you want grow in Sirius or Canopus? The real cap is whipp. Before you take coast tiles, it's better to whipp. That is more reason for making a good usages of our territory. We need production not additional luxus-res. In center Bode there are allways hillmines without working, so another town should work them.

See the quat idea, in 2 turns they send they units and they 've a long way. Correct it's possible to go at the hill and then every new turn 4 more there. The only (important) difference is, that now Mav 'll have cats. If we wait too long the Quat stack 'll be deminished. Then they can build cross again. So it's very possible that we 've to split our force against cat attack. If the stack is big enough there is only hash meat after cats attack.


I ask you, what is your plan? Take any test save or build one and show me, how you can hold there. The asking after more units is nice, but imo not enough.


To all:

Correct I would decline every attack now til I 've better units. I would reseach to knights or musk. I don't think any army could win there anything. But our tech situation is bancrott. I can only hope nobody is giving nationalism to other before we 've Taj. There comes the idea: "what is with mausi?"

Mav must be more careful now, that we don't attack Injinya and destroy it. The plan is to win this game, not to get a beauty price for it. We are without Pyra better than the other. I would prefer you all look at your priorities and don't look at the Pyras with the meaning without we coldn't win the game. Against is a little difficult, but without it's nobody has ist. What would be the lost?
What I mean, is: we 've lost a second try (now 8 units and the surprise) and the only reaction is: "more units". Please wake up, you/we are long enough in our dreams (I 've dreamed also, it's so nice). If we want/need more cities (like Blub says), than it 'll be. but we can not make a half war.

BLubmuz
Dec 19, 2010, 02:30 PM
HUSch, i want more cities 'cause a wanna win this game!
As i said, more cities means more production, more research, more gold. Maintenance problems? whip CHs.

Now, it's good news Amazon are researching Feud. I'd say: let's buils archers, then upgrade them to LB if/when needed.

I think i agree with your concept of half-war. For now, let's keep the blockade to avoid iron in the Mavs spire and mounted in their island. A few cats are not worrying me much.

When we have 4 EIs full of units good on defense (WE, Xbows, even archers), we can unload them in Omaha beach with some cat, then wait for reinforcements hoping Mavs lose some units trying to attack ours.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 02:53 PM
The most maintenance is not diminished with CH, civics costs and at some number (colonial costs, that is not my experience but knowing from other players in DGs).
When we have 4 EIs full of units good on defense (WE, Xbows, even archers), we can unload them in Omaha beach with some cat, then wait for reinforcements hoping Mavs lose some units trying to attack ours. Try it and show me the result, Mav can only build archer and cats (all with at least 5 XP), with PS Gold can produce in 5 turns 4 cats, Injinya must grow has forge and granary, Iron can make a cat every 2 turns. Additional whipps. And they 've with their general-units the best units and the moving advantage.

But perhaps we get better techs from Ama. First LA then Knights. latter are the best I heard in the last few days.

HUSch
Dec 19, 2010, 03:02 PM
Now for the turn, the mil units are clear.
1. The wb makes a fish-boat
2, Betei should better work mine this turn, then it grows 1 turn later but has then 12/24 :food:, in the other case it's 1/24 with an additional turn, and the needing of the chop gain to finish. So mine is better.
3. Whip in Rigel, pop 2 (forest, green cottage), move dawn (EI 1) near Achenar, so that the settler can embark the ship next turn. It's the same for all places of founding the next city, the EI must take the settler.
4. I 've changed the mm in some towns, for I think best.
5. The worker should do, what the marker shows.

I would like, if there is no enter (finish turn). Perhaps we get the Xmas-pause for considering our situation and disagreements.

Irgy
Dec 19, 2010, 03:07 PM
Irgy, you are the diplomat for Amazon. BTW, i don't see you much active. Can you please tell us if you're busy or if you've lost interest

Still here. Home internet is down for a while, so I'm less active though. Particularly over the weekend. I should still be able to handle the diplomacy though.

As far as discussing post M&M plans with Amazon, I'm aware of the need to, but every time I've raised the subject with them so far they've ignored it completely. They're entirely focused on defeating M&M at the moment and have been going to great lengths to hold everyone together. We can push the issue with them but I don't think it's the right move.

The next step as I see it is a message to CDZ to secure their support against Quatronia post M&M. I'll try and post a suggestion today or tomorrow.

Irgy
Dec 19, 2010, 07:55 PM
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Logged out
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Finished turn
12/20/10 11:24 am socralynnek Score decreased to 971
12/20/10 11:13 am socralynnek Score increased to 984
12/20/10 11:13 am 2metraninja Score decreased to 904
12/20/10 11:10 am socralynnek Logged in

Anyone know what this is about?

HUSch
Dec 20, 2010, 01:27 AM
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Logged out
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Finished turn
12/20/10 11:24 am socralynnek Score decreased to 971 -13
12/20/10 11:13 am socralynnek Score increased to 984 +13
12/20/10 11:13 am 2metraninja Score decreased to 904 -13
12/20/10 11:10 am socralynnek Logged in

13 SP is equivalent to pop 2
It shows Ama gives city with pop 2 to CDZ and then CDZ whipp pop 2.

I 've looked the save:
Ama gives city of lib (pop 3 from Merlot) to CDZ and get the city of Sangre ( pop 1, CDZ conquered from Merlot.
At map/pic you can see it makes sense. But it shows good relations. At least better than between Quat and we.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276298&stc=1&d=1292831281

HUSch
Dec 20, 2010, 02:08 AM
I 've moved the last worker and spy and whipped in Rigel.

HUSch
Dec 20, 2010, 02:59 AM
Question and discussion of our next cities.

My preference for the next founding is the coast at the army point. Blub means we need lux res for growing our cities, we can now grow ~ to pop 15 in our towns, so I see no reason for this..
For the spot pro: he has connection to our land and worker.
Additional I prefer the north tile, it's the only chance to get the forest in NW (Vega SW). The south tile has more free land, but for what? When we work in the city at hillmines, the city 'll be like Vega/Arc, only in few times work coast.

btw
If we look at Bodes south coast, I find no reason for "Blub3" against "Alpha A".

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276306&stc=1&d=1292838875

BLubmuz
Dec 20, 2010, 07:34 AM
Question and discussion of our next cities.

If we look at Bodes south coast, I find no reason for "Blub3" against "Alpha A". The same reason why i think your proposal is better than mine and Alpha. The city in the W coast is better, since it can work more land and has less overlap with Blub3. Blub3 is there beacuse of Blub2 (the fort city).

Alpha placed his proposed sites in a way that AlphaA was logical, but Blub2 is far better than his fort/canal city.

AlphaShard
Dec 20, 2010, 08:53 AM
I agree with Blubmuz that we need cities and it's for our Domination VC that I have been clamoring for a long time now. Every luxury counts as much as every population AND land tile does. I did point out a while ago that we seem to be in the lead for a Domination VC and we should go for that so yes every settler counts.

Also capturing and keeping Injinya will mean keeping it's population as well as the Pyramids. Trust me Husch no one has said "Ohh pretty we needs that because it's a Wonder" No we wanted it to get to US, PS and Rep without the prerequisite technology. We CAN do without the Pyramids but then that would mean sharing more tech with those who will have to war with eventually.

Also I think had we waited on the hill we would have been able to keep the city on Mav Home island because the reinforcements would have allowed for it.

So since Amazon is going for Guilds after Feudalism which is great that will give us knights, longbows and stronger WS. If you want to wait until we have those techs, save up money then lets focus on settling the rest of Bode and Anjen, fortifying against any possible Mav/Mer units on the Star continent. We can also still build military as well and upgrade the units once we have the techs we need.

I think we should make a Big Picture plan on how to attain the Domination Victory. I don't know what VC's the rest are thinking of but I think we should decide on Domination.

HUSch
Dec 20, 2010, 02:33 PM
Blub, I think your canal-town is better than Alphas, but also I would not move "Alpha A" west. For me the canal town is more a fort against land-units from center, than a needed "Panamacanal". With the towns at south and south-west coast we 've enough production for bulding the needed ships, and additional the usability from this canal is not like the original. Without the "pacific war" were more difficult. The gain is ~2 turns from Sirius to Gold. "Alpha A" has the sugar of 2 clams, even 1 of this is for the canal town. So when we found the canal town there is a fished clams for it.

Also I think had we waited on the hill we would have been able to keep the city on Mav Home island because the reinforcements would have allowed for it. That, I don't think; against the cross, we had no real counter unit. And all their units 've 2 promotions, our only 1. How good are LAs against them; I don't know, I 'll/must test it.

The problem I see is that we want not win this war, but the game, so it's important to have after the war a chance for more. But perhaps ( and I consider it's more and more) this thinking is wrong. How see you this?
The last total DG-war (I saw) was in ISDG against LP and there was units and best promotions for this, no considering what's later. The towns were at pop 3-6 whip, and in the crusade all units were ready, all in the sense, after winning the war, we 've a good sitution for the rest and is the same how our towns are in this winning time. This is not right for us; here we discuss the war is won and we have Pyras and must make/get a good stand for an attack against the south. So we lead more a gentleman-war (if you understand my meaning), because we 've more "irons in the fire" ( that is translate from a german word) to win (and my interest in the game is not depend of victory).

BLubmuz
Dec 20, 2010, 03:17 PM
Waiting on the hill for reinforcements would be a suicide. Not that we did much better taking the city, but i was hoping Mavs were afraid for their Capital or for the other city, due to the Quat stack. BTW, what Quat did wasn't very smart. I even think it wasn't very fair to us. Those 2 turns they delayed pillaging the iron were very important.

In any case, better not rush the war.

Our best strategy is to grow, not only for VC (domination) purposes.

So, let's build settlers, plant those cities, then a much powerful army.

WEs are the best counter for Xbows. And of course knights. Even HAs can stand a chance. Sure not melee. A LB on a hill or in a city is the best unit until Rifles.

A double promotion does not mean much. It's handy, but not that crucial.

Irgy
Dec 20, 2010, 03:28 PM
I see Domination as "you've won the game already a while ago, but now it's official". If you've won domination then you could also win whatever other way you feel like, but they save you the trouble by making it a victory condition on its own.

In multiplayer, religion is simply cheese, diplomacy is only by concession, conquest is a waste of time (as you'll generally get domination first), score is highly unlikely and never something you would play for. No one will leave you alone to get culture or space peacefully, so you won't win them unless you're well on top of the scoreboard anyway (or you're opponents really screw up).

So I agree domination is the most likely, especially on a small map with only 6 civs, but I don't see "playing to win by domination" as any different from "playing to win". Sometimes you might be racing for domination in the end game against culture or maybe space, and the intra-team game was a bit of a special case*, but otherwise it's not a victory condition that you really "play for".

In any case, it's the land that's the sticking point in domination, never the population. And it's not getting 60% of the land that's the problem so much as restricting the other teams to less than 40%, if you get what I mean.

* In the end, domination was, I think, the only victory condition Lord Parkin was able to win in that game, without it I would have had him. Exactly why I think that will come in the writeup if I ever finish it. But it hinged on the fact that he agreed to finish it peacefully, and was playing a little sloppy as well, which I dare say was only the case because he knew he had domination in the bag anyway.

BLubmuz
Dec 20, 2010, 04:02 PM
My best space games were basically almost domination. With no actual race. That's why i repeat "growth is power!"

AlphaShard
Dec 20, 2010, 06:02 PM
Well I think the Bode cities spots are the priority, then we can fill in the anjen ones.

So for the mean time we stock on gold, build some archers and HA so when we get Fued and Guilds we can upgrade to Knights and Longbows?

What did you guys think on what I had to say about the Diplo situation?

HUSch
Dec 21, 2010, 10:29 AM
I looked at the game, Yamato has won the combat with 2 barbs, injured 42/100 HP and 3/2 XP, I would prefer flanking for navi the next.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276443&stc=1&d=1292952394

There are no difficult moves (Spy), some jobs needed to decide (Procyon), so my proposal.

Turn proposal:

1. Yamato goes to our territory to heal (tile south of Vega)
2. Nob (is on the tile) , units goes at land (NE best) and Nob goes south to help in blockade
3. New Mace (Arc) goes army point
4. Mariner goes back in war region
5. Spy goes
a) SE at land to Mavs spire
b) SW direction army point
6. Toch helps Pindi with plant
7. Husch (FC Achenar) build workshop
8. Settler (in Rigel) goes on Dawn and Dawn goes direction Arc
9. wb (Procyon) to clam

Arc builds archer, its good to build and upgrade.
Procyon barracks or I prefer lh (+2 :food:)
Rigel builds lh
Betei finish granary with working fish.

Research best (in mm) slider is now 50%, we get 184 :science: and 129 :gold:, both values are exact half of the maximum and with the factor 1.4 we
get (184 + 1) * 1.4 = 259; in 2 turns = 518
that is better than a changing of 100% and 0, with this we
get (368+1) *1.4 = 516 and the next turn (0+1) * 1,4 = 1; in 2 turns = 517

AlphaShard
Dec 21, 2010, 03:03 PM
After Betal finishes Granery, should it do Lighthouse?

I like the 50/50 with the Gold/Beakers. Will Canopus and AC still be building HA's to upgrade to Knights later?

Are we building Great Library in Sirius now?

I can't log into the game until 27th or so.

BLubmuz
Dec 21, 2010, 03:18 PM
First, if there're problems with the active playing in next days, i can do it.

Research 50%? It seems the same, but the game will "steal" some beaker and some gold here and there. Better run 0/100 every turn instead.

Why unload the untis from Nob? if they stay there they will gain 1 turn healing. If the ship is on our territory, it makes no difference.

Have we switched to settlers on Bode?

HUSch
Dec 21, 2010, 04:13 PM
After Betal finishes Granery, should it do Lighthouse? It's a possibility, please remark next turn, if I/we forget it, the additional :food: can make the whip of forge make better

I like the 50/50 with the Gold/Beakers. Will Canopus and AC still be building HA's to upgrade to Knights later? Canopus build a EI, AC a WE in the moment

Are we building Great Library in Sirius now? yes, now in 4 turns
I can't log into the game until 27th or so.
Please make votes, even you can't log in

First, if there're problems with the active playing in next days, i can do it.

Research 50%? It seems the same, but the game will "steal" some beaker and some gold here and there. Better run 0/100 every turn instead. I don't understand you, after I post that 50/50 is best and compute it.

Why unload the units from Nob? if they stay there they will gain 1 turn healing. If the ship is on our territory, it makes no difference. I didn't know that units heal onboard. But the ship should go in the blockade region, so that we 've there at least 2 EI, Mav has build a cara in Copper, I don't see why, but perhaps they 've a reason. Additional, I would like all units at army point and then in the coast town. The units need for healing 6 turns now.

Have we switched to settlers on Bode? Arc and Vega build military units, Rigel, Achenar and Procyon buildings. Where do you want build settler?

AlphaShard
Dec 21, 2010, 04:29 PM
They may be building a Cara to attack the Galleons/EI, it's better then nothing and they did win with that 22% WE v Pike. Or they are transporting spys. If we can sink the Cara I'd do it.

Which city spot is the new Settler going to? The Coastal Clam/Copper seems like the best place, keep our stationed troops in our culture and make a good strong lauching point. Then we can settle the other remaining two spots on Bode.

Irgy
Dec 21, 2010, 04:33 PM
Research 50%? It seems the same, but the game will "steal" some beaker and some gold here and there. Better run 0/100 every turn instead.

This is only due to rounding errors, and as HUsch said he's already gone to the trouble of calculating that there's not a problem. You can still lose out to rounding errors on the second secret round of research bonuses (the always-active, pre-requisite bonus, the other civs knowing the tech bonus, and there might be others), but, due partly to the free 1bpt, all bets are off as to whether binary is actually better than any other tech rate for those rounding errors anyway.

I'd like to propose we never spend time calculating or arguing about rounding errors again from this point on. For all that Dhoomstriker banged on about losing multiple beakers everywhere from it in the SGOTM, you can easily show in game that you only ever lose strictly less than 1gpt to rounding, there has to be more important things to spend our attention on.

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 01:30 AM
I 'll make the turn now.
I 've made the turn, moved the units, but not unload Nob and no decision about the spy.

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 05:13 AM
My opinion is that the first city has to be the fort/canal one.
Then HuschB, then the one south. Finally the whales.

We can switch Vega and Arcturus to settlers. In some 10 turns we can have 4 more cities.

AlphaShard
Dec 22, 2010, 10:41 AM
I don't know if Binary really saves beakers/gold/etc, what I do see is that we can use binary to quickly accomplish one task. Like we did when we binared Espionage so we could do spy actions against Mav. I think we should focus on the gold but I'm willing to go with the 50/50.

The Fort city will need additional forces. Which is what I liked about our Clam/Copper city we have a army stacking up there.

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 11:26 AM
The Fort city will need additional forces. Which is what I liked about our Clam/Copper city we have a army stacking up there.It's one of the main reasons i want that city first: We can keep one unit in the city for MP and 2-3 mixed ones fortified in the fort, without faraway costs. With roads, we can be safe from any attack.

The other reason is obvious, the fort will considerably speed our ferries from the mainland.

I already said that the city itself is weak, aside good commerce from incense, but it's the most important strategically.

In any case, can i log to the game and remove the signs we discarded? With such confusion we can settle in the wrong spot.

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 12:33 PM
Blub
For what we need the canal town? There is no infrastructure, the main reason would be as canal, but we would need a worker there too for building a fortress. Additional a worker for incense and without a worker there is no real good tile to work. Additional I wouldn't change the job of Vega and Arc, we need units. Now archer for upgrade.

btw
The 10 turns plan isn't possible, not that I think we could not found 4 new cities, but we 've no ressource (free worker) to improve the tiles at all these cities. 1 worker for one of these cities is not enough and we haven't the 1.
Rigel can build a settler every 8-10 turns, perhaps Procyon can whip the needed worker (I should look and make a better plan for worker/settler in the both towns). We 've 3 worker at Bode, the same at SOL, in Anjen 2. For 3 new cities at Bode we need at least a few new workers.

If we found now the westcoast city and then LP mines there the copper and the city build a wb then granary then perhaps a wb for the (Alpha A; Blub 2) town and this town can work/modernizes the tiles for the canal town. The whale town needs first a road, a ferry transfer isn't my wish. We don't need to grab land on Bode.

The Canal town, with the next EI (build in Can) and goes at south sea, we 've then 4 EI in the south. That should be enough, if our units (16) can't hold the OB 1 turn, then with 20 the result 'll be the same. For moving EIs the canal isn't necessary

Alpha
what is the meaning of binary. The slider position is only good in this exact situation, no one (and especial I) says, that this is a long time best. Your discussion about any loses is not understandable for me. The mechanics of research etc is clear, there are no unknown loses (in our forum (GermanWebring) we 've looked at the programming and discuss it). So I know that now we win 1 :science: with 50/50 %. In the next turn with other values it must not be good. But Irgy is right, perhaps we shouldn't think about this, because there are other important things to pay attention about.


I would not like to research too quick. So in the next turns better low research rate and make money.

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 12:39 PM
Blub
please remove only markers, which you self has pointed.


we 've more than enough time for the next turn (it's the Xmas-turn I think), so there 'll be no reason for quick moving.

What kind of additional strategically meaning can 've the canal-town?

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 01:04 PM
The question is, wish we to wait for knights or not, before we make a new trial. I test the defense chance of LA (Long-Archer=Long-bowman) in a captured town, they are not so good as I wish. We get units with 1 promotion, so

A WE with * has 56,9 % against a LA with CG1 in town, but only 30,4 against LA (without prom) at hill, for the WE we need also a pike with *.
More problems are the maces, they 've allways a good chance (+60%) against units with CG1 (LA, cross)
A mace with CR1 has 60,4 % against the LA with CG1 in town, a better has also more chance.
Additional if we build (with theo or vassalage) a LA with 2 promotions is not much better
A mace with CR2 has 60,5 % against the LA with CG2 in town and they ‘ve so units.

So imo we need knights to hold a captured town.

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 01:06 PM
2 of my markers are on the decided spots, sooner or later.
There're more and i wanna remove those.

Are we short on workers? is a pretty common mistake. Let's build some more!

For a good game, you must have 1 worker/city (target cities, not present cities). With lots of jungle to clear (like on Bode) we should increase adding a couple more.

The more we delay settling, the more we delay their growth.

AlphaShard
Dec 22, 2010, 01:15 PM
Binary is when you push the slider to 100% in one thing like Gold, Research, Culture or Espionage. I thought you were the one that did the 100% Espionage. I thought what I said was pretty straight forward. Maximize the Slider in one function to maximise the gains in that one function. It neglects the others obviously and we were doing that with Science for awhile now so I don't understand how you don't understand.

In my experience I have not seen Binary save on beakers and usually do 20%Gold/70%Research/10%Culture, but that's for my solo games.

Anyways I wasn't arguing or nitpicking, I was AGREEING with you Husch.

Anyways it's a good idea to remove signs we don't need so go ahead Bulbmuz.

Also I thought it was 1.5Workers/city? Frankly 2 per city is fine with me.

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 01:49 PM
We don't need worker at SOL and perhaps also not another at Anjen, but sure we need for the south coast of Bode 1-2 worker. Rigel would need some time for it, I think at least 4-5 turns for the next.

edit
now I understand
binary is "all or nothing", 1 or 0

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 02:29 PM
OK, so i removed the useless signs and changed H with Whale city.

I noticed the EI carrying the settler is without moves. It can save a move if the settler land on the city now. Provided we need that move.

I also counted the tiles from "ferry point" to the SW corner of bode.
I must admit that from that point we gain only 2-3 moves with the fort. But we gain a lot more if moving from Anjen, at least until it's covered by roads.

In any case, the main role of the fort is to keep Bode safe from attacks from the Mavs' spike. If they knew how weak we are they can steamroll us only with the units they have on the west coast city.

It would also be a good idea to move the warrior or the archer to the tile marked Whale city to fogbust.

About workers:
we have 9 cities and 8 workers, with lots of hills, jungle to remove and forests to chop.

If we arrive to 13 cities and there's also a filler city in Anjen
We need at least 5 more workers.

BTW is it worth that city in Anjen? that spot is a s**t.

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 02:31 PM
We don't need worker at SOL and perhaps also not another at Anjen, but sure we need for the south coast of Bode 1-2 worker. Rigel would need some time for it, I think at least 4-5 turns for the next.

edit
now I understand
binary is "all or nothing", 1 or 0We don't need more workers in Anjen?
And all those unimproved tiles? what are we waiting to build the marked improvements? To arrive researching Fusion?

HUSch
Dec 22, 2010, 04:13 PM
The settler on board of Dawn has also no move, so we can't move him now. The ship must go to Arc and the settler found the coastal city next turn. There is nothing important to do with Dawn, that we should renounce the town founding next turn.

There is no possibility for Mav to go at our territory with or without the canal-town. Why do you think there is a danger? The only units they can build is WE, and there is no chance that we don't see the power wrong. From Anjen we 'll allways ferry the units.

For worker we need a plan to build some.
Btw
In Anjen we 've a long time enough modernized tiles, it's not the number of good tiles you see, but the number of tiles you can work. Rigel don't work a river cottage, it 'll the next ~30 turns not grow >8 (for long time) and Achenar 'll whip also the next buildings.

BLubmuz
Dec 22, 2010, 04:31 PM
Forget about the settler, i thought he can move. Of course you would unload in the city to save a move next turn.

Mavs can build WE and HA in their spoke. But you must count all the Xbows already there and the other assorted units.

Now i understand what you mean with "modernize": improve!

Sure, workers and settlers: they will be our best military units.

AlphaShard
Dec 22, 2010, 07:29 PM
Yes the Mavs can move their current Spoke army to the pass where our Macemen is stationed. I wouldn't want them to start marching their current forces into our territory and I haven't logged in to see their current state which I am sure is more now.

It is frustrating knowing we need more settlers/workers, military AND infrastructure. Maybe if we assign certain cities to do the workers/settlers. We may need to apply more whip and chops. This was another reason I wanted Pyramids for US so we could buy city builds as well.

Trystero
Dec 23, 2010, 02:59 AM
Hey guys - sorry I dropped out for a few days. It was my turnset in SGOTM12 and I had a lot of last minute "before the holidays" stuff come up. I am on vacation until the New Year, but my online access might be occasionally limited.

I haven't looked at the game, but from the discussion it seems like we are debating whether to expand more or build more military, yes? Obviously it would be nice to do both, but I think we should get some more cities down while building units and waiting for Feudalism/Guilds.

I would vote for the next city on the SW coast of Bode (which I think we all agree on). We need to work as many of the hills on Bode as soon as possible. How many hills can Arcturus work? I think I recall that there are 9 in its BFC. If it can't work all of them any time soon, I favor the HUSchB site.

What is happening with Quat on the Mavs home island?

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 04:20 AM
I look at the game and see a barb near copper and note, in Copper miss the cara, 2 galley and 2 cross, The only tile, thex can be is the marked red.

Our enterprise has 99% against the barb galley,
There are now different possibilities (Enterprise has 1/2 XP with combat we get a promotion)
1. Enterprise can attack the barb ( 2 moves) and then move 1 north and blockade
2. Enterprise can go after the cara and attack 6 : 3.6 it 'll be a good chance and blockade (or go back to ocean (no blockade) then the barb can't attack), then next turn goes after the galleys. The galleys can go next turn to isle and unload the units (that we can't prevent.

In all ways we can move Enterprise SE to look.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276616&stc=1&d=1293102488

At the isle the maves has 4 cats now in attack range of the Quat stack at iron hill (without mine). At turn 138 the Quat armada can reach the south coast of the Mavs isle. I think at least in the next turn, the Quat stack 'll left the iron.

BLubmuz
Dec 23, 2010, 04:47 AM
If the galley is on the tile you marked with the caravel, there's no way it can arrive to the island next turn. So, kill the caravel, then they will retreat the galley. If they move to the island they can disembark the units on the hill, but the galley is condemned.

BLubmuz
Dec 23, 2010, 04:49 AM
Hey guys - sorry I dropped out for a few days. It was my turnset in SGOTM12 and I had a lot of last minute "before the holidays" stuff come up. I am on vacation until the New Year, but my online access might be occasionally limited.Save your time, you'll be defeated by the powerful Fifth Element. But you can always compete for the Wooden Spoon, so do your best :D

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 07:25 AM
Blub
There is no other tile a galley can reach last turn.
Do you vote for attack the cara (destroy the ships and hope that we get not too much injuries).
I read your post in this sense.

What is SGOTM12?

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 08:02 AM
Turn proposal
1. Break job of LP

2. Enterprise move 1 SE, look at the cara (I think) and galleys and goes S and attacks the cara, decide with injuries goes ocean or blockade.

3. Nob without the units goes 4 tiles south, Mariner goes at the same tile.
4. Yamato goes with he units to the new town

5. Dawn goes Arc, the settler goes and found the city at the north tile, job wb. Dawn goes north to take the ele next turn at ferry point

6. Spy goes army point. LP goes at copper and mine, all other worker repeat their job.
The plantation at Betei is ready, perhaps one of the worker there can go at the roaded forest to chop.

In AC build a HA or Ele again, perhaps a missio for Ama

Irgy said, we promised them one, that should/can we do now, doing something for our credit/diplo-standing. Even we should ask them for a unit with 10 XP, perhaps they can vent one to us. I would pay a trifle sum for it.

BLubmuz
Dec 23, 2010, 08:47 AM
Blub
There is no other tile a galley can reach last turn.
Do you vote for attack the cara (destroy the ships and hope that we get not too much injuries).
I read your post in this sense.

What is SGOTM12?Yes, correct!

is a Succession Game Of The Month. The 12th on CIV.

If you want take a look here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=196)

As you probably know, there are Games of the Month. Every month a savegame (BtS, Warlords and Vanilla) is posted and the participants can compare their game with others once finished. It's an interesting competition.

Other interesting competitions are the HoF (Hall of Fame) Gauntlets and the HoF itself.

Here (http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/index.php) for more.

I used to participate in both, now not too frequently. I improved my gameplay a lot when playing in those competitions.

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 10:45 AM
To marine combat. In my SP (I'm playing this week) I get this: I need 1 XP for a cara with 4 XP and flanking ( in contrery to you, I like navi-promotion)and so my Cara attacks a barb galley, 79% and not only defeated the barb my cara, additional it is not even injured. I don't think, I experienced this before :mad:. I hope, the risk is not so big in this game, when we attack.

btw
I 'll move Enterprise at SE and see, as if my vision is right.



In the SGOTM the teams play the same SP and in the end 'll be valued against the other competitors, like playing a bridge tournament. Nice idea, for this game it's too late, pm me, if a new begins.

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 11:44 AM
My vision was correct, at this tile is a cara and 2 galleys.
We 've now 2 attack ways
1. over ocean there coudn't attack the barb
2. over coast there Enterprise has +10% defense

Our win chance against cara is 96,2 %.

The attack sequence is clear, we attack and blockade, I hope that is possible (it is, I 've test it).

I need a vote which way?
Ifor myself prefer over ocean (way 1).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276645&stc=1&d=1293129896


btw
The barb ship came from the fjord south of Bode

Trystero
Dec 23, 2010, 11:57 AM
So, if we attack by option 1 we end the attack on an ocean tile the galleys can't reach. Is that correct? If so, I vote for option 1.

Save your time, you'll be defeated by the powerful Fifth Element. But you can always compete for the Wooden Spoon, so do your best :D

Given how Plastic Ducks are doing, we are playing to not win a Wooden Spoon.

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 01:25 PM
The Mav ships are in their culture, so they can move on ocean. It's only the barb galley, which couldn't attack there.

BLubmuz
Dec 23, 2010, 01:38 PM
So, if we attack by option 1 we end the attack on an ocean tile the galleys can't reach. Is that correct? If so, I vote for option 1.Nothing changes. That ocean tile is inside Mavs culture, so the galleys can move over it. The same would apply to a foreign ship if you have OB with the owner, but not if you don't.
You can be sure the galleys are loaded, so Mavs will never attack with them. I suggest that after the attack you move Enterprise the coast 1SW of Omaha Beach, blockade if possible. In any case, if you can't blockade, Mavs can start use their resources for next turn, but must change production the following one.Given how Plastic Ducks are doing, we are playing to not win a Wooden Spoon.Ducks have an impressive score and power, let's see if this is a sign of Gold or just a Sushi (i can bet my last cent on that) result. You know, you must fulfill all the requirements for this game or you're not eligible for any prize. And just scrub all the fallout requires a lot of time. Let's see how it goes.
I think FE are doing pretty well under any aspect. But this competition always reserves some surprise in creative ways to win.
Best of luck, you and your dwarves friends need it!

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 02:03 PM
I suggest that after the attack you move Enterprise the coast 1SW of Omaha Beach, blockade if possible.
we 've 4 moves with EI, 1 is made, we make now 2 moves to attack, after attack we must blockade; I think you 've made a mistake with OmaheBeach and mean Copper (I 've cut the land tiles at the pic), but SW of Copper is the barb, so the galleys can't back in safe harbour.

BLubmuz
Dec 23, 2010, 02:13 PM
Sure, the galleys can't go back on port because the barb galley.

OB = Open Borders.

I xposted with you, so i was explaining the mechanics of the culture-over-sea.

AlphaShard
Dec 23, 2010, 04:14 PM
Attack the Caraval and then the Mav Galleys next turn. We don't want them to get any troops to Mav Island plus it will be a good hit against them. Leave the Barb Galley last since they don't even count for General Points. :(

Also what is Quat up to on the Mav island we should keep tabs on that.

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 04:42 PM
So I 'll attack now, way 1.

HUSch
Dec 23, 2010, 04:51 PM
Enter won and get unjured to 5.1/6 and get 2 XP to 3/2, chance to get the 4. and later against the barb the 5. I would like to promote in direction of navi (+ moves); what is your opinion about it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=276679&stc=1&d=1293148108

AlphaShard
Dec 23, 2010, 07:39 PM
So it looks like they will probably get their galleys over to the island next turn. Why didn't Mariner block the Copper city all this time?

I also thought we had 3 EI in the area two on blockade duty?

Trystero
Dec 23, 2010, 08:48 PM
Looks good, HUSch. Promotion toward Navigation seems fine.

HUSch
Dec 24, 2010, 01:54 AM
Alpha we want XP for our ships from the barbs, Mariner and Yamato had 1/2 XP, now Yamato has 3/2.
You must look at the result Mav gives a cara and a galley for bringing 2 cross at the isle.
They had attacked Mariner and perhaps won with their cara. After building a cara I wouldn't left mariner there.

For the 3. EI (Nobody) that was ferrying our injured home. Now the injured are in Beta centauri our SW-coast-town.

AlphaShard
Dec 24, 2010, 10:19 AM
Yeah I think promoting the ships would be good to keep our ships strong. The Mav spoke is looking weak now moving troops over.

HUSch
Dec 24, 2010, 02:48 PM
I Pmed with 2metraninja/Ama about feuda and get this info
...
And yes, it was Merlots, who research Feudalism. They will have it in 2 turns.
...

It then also, that Mav can build LB in 2-3 turns. What kind of effect has this for our army to conquer Inj?

AlphaShard
Dec 24, 2010, 05:32 PM
How well do knights do against lb? It feels like were getting nowhere fast.

BLubmuz
Dec 25, 2010, 03:41 AM
First, Merry Xmas everyone :xmastree:

Then, i noticed the turns have the usual lenght. Wasn't approved the suspension?

Knights vs LBs? the best you can have until Cuirassiers, which are a huge step better.

But you need a lot of trebs and be ready to lose some.

HUSch
Dec 25, 2010, 03:52 AM
Mav/Mer hasn't logged in, so I think we should request a new start. Any other would be wrong.

AlphaShard
Dec 25, 2010, 08:00 AM
@Blubmuz: I'm always prepared to lose Siege, any that survive are bonus.

BLubmuz
Dec 26, 2010, 10:51 AM
I just verified in civstats and the timer is normal. What do we do? I can play if needed.

HUSch
Dec 28, 2010, 03:45 AM
We 've reload, all units moved like before, but a new combat gave a new result, now Enterprise is damaged (2 more hits).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=277099&stc=1&d=1293533021

Trystero
Dec 28, 2010, 12:05 PM
Hi guys,

A belated Merry Christmas, from me, as well. Merlot researched Feudalism? Yikes. As BLub said, we will need a lot more trebs. I am starting to think that we will benefit as much from building and developing our own cities as from conquering Mavs/Merlots right now.

AlphaShard
Dec 28, 2010, 03:00 PM
Yeah we can get more buildings go, but I think it should go in the direction of building what that city needs in a specialized way. Is it a Production or commerce city?

BLubmuz
Dec 29, 2010, 01:03 PM
I've seen the server down and now i see we reloaded and replay the last turn.

The timer is regular, so no holidays pause but just a non planned down?

Please let me know.

HUSch
Dec 29, 2010, 01:18 PM
I 've paused the game, after replayed our turn.
We wait for the other teams, I think the turn 'll finish in the new year.

AlphaShard
Dec 29, 2010, 04:04 PM
They stated in the game tracking thread that this turn had to be finished to get to the extended turn timer. So were paused until everyone can play there turn since Slaze missed his last turn.

AlphaShard
Jan 02, 2011, 05:19 PM
So now we're in a new turn, Enterprise was destroyed by one of Mav's galleys. The wounded galley is now back in Copper city. Should we send Caraval or Nobody to secure the area? The other Galley may be going to the home island.

We got Feudalism from Amazon.

Do we really need a Harbor in Rigel? Wouldn't workers/settlers be better?

Vega finished Maceman, I put another in for placeholder. Arcturus finished archer, was actually thinking maybe we can do a stable here but I'd like to get more growth for this city so I put lighthouse, again as placeholder. We have more good spots for mines to be placed.

The only other thing I did was told Claudius to chop forest on the hill by Betelguse, which finished and gave 30 hammers.

Looking at the land I really do think we are very short on Workers and really need more. Well at least we have ALOT of time to discuss this turn!

Also it seems maybe even ironically that the Merlot are the ones really losing, they only have their Home island of four citys as of this posting.

HUSch
Jan 03, 2011, 03:36 AM
So now we're in a new turn, Enterprise was destroyed by one of Mav's galleys. The wounded galley is now back in Copper city. Should we send Caraval or Nobody to secure the area? The other Galley may be going to the home island. That is the bad sequence of the reload. But we need a ship there to blockade.

We got Feudalism from Amazon. You 've taken it, why? Now we can't build archer and up them.

Do we really need a Harbor in Rigel? Wouldn't workers/settlers be better?
We 've to grow and whip, it's better than building with :food:. I would like a lib more, obs is too long.

Looking at the land I really do think we are very short on Workers and really need more. Well at least we have ALOT of time to discuss this turn!

Also it seems maybe even ironically that the Merlot are the ones really losing, they only have their Home island of four citys as of this posting.
Yeah, Ama and CDZ are better in combat than we and Quat. But don't forget, Merlot has researched feuda.

AlphaShard
Jan 03, 2011, 04:28 AM
So we don't have to research Feudalism and we are one step closer to Guilds.

BLubmuz
Jan 03, 2011, 04:52 AM
Too bad we lose our first EI. Damn reload :mad: That damn Slaze has a lot of luck in his attacks.

I've already said it: no more military, no more buildings. Workers and settlers. They are our best bet for this game. Mavs with LBs will be an hard nut to cracke. We need a lot of troops, expensive troops and to launch them at once. So we need more cities soon to sustain our economy and our army.

Sure, send a pair of ships stacked to blockade.

Trystero
Jan 03, 2011, 09:52 AM
Happy New Year guys.

Yeah, Mavs have ridiculous combat luck. Damn the reload.

I think I agree with BLubmuz's and AlphaShard: We have land to settle and develop. Let's do that before starting any more military adventures (or misadventures).

AlphaShard
Jan 03, 2011, 10:19 AM
So we have 3 city spots to fill and we probably need to double are workers. I think Rigel could get out the Anjen city spot and even provide the needed workers for that spoke.

If we could get a worker out of Vega, Arcturus and Procyon that ought to help out Bode alot. The Sol cities could provide the last two settlers we currently need and then a worker as well for Bode. We just need to make sure that the Mav Navy stays put, and then guard our Bode spoke access point and we should be fine for getting our land better developed.

HUSch
Jan 05, 2011, 09:28 AM
I looked in the game.
An info
the Quat-stack isn't there anymore (Mav get another general).
in 3-4 turns the Mavs 've the iron again.

Turn proposal
Nob goes SW and blockade,
Mariner should go at the coast of Beta and the spy goes onboard.
After the chopping at Betei, the other workers should chop also (at Betei SW). 61=> 76 (and 4 =>5 next turn) is better than 31=> 38 and next turn 34 => 42.

The jobs in the towns are good so.

What is the sequence of city founding? At Anjen I see no good spot.

AlphaShard
Jan 05, 2011, 10:03 AM
There were more then one on Anjen, the Future City sign and the Whale city

Trystero
Jan 06, 2011, 01:00 AM
I took a look at the game, as well. I agree it doesn't look like things are going well for Quatronia on the Mavs home island either. Mavericks are also researching Engineering, which will reduce the effectiveness of our WEs.

I think it is time to coordinate activities with the other teams. Mavericks aren't nearly the push-overs we thought they would be, and our failed attempts aren't doing anything but giving there units XP. We also need to coordinate research. I noticed that Quat is also taching Nationalism (they don't know we know this, of course). I will try to draft a letter.

Also, everyone else has ended the turn. I didn't end our turn because I wasn't certain if we were ready to do so. I am actually more comfortable letting others do the turnplaying at the moment, since I haven't been following the game that closely recently.

Edit: Also, I am in favor of settling on Bode before Anjennida.

AlphaShard
Jan 06, 2011, 04:43 AM
I think we can end our turn today.

I also would like to settle the rest of Bode first then Anjen.

I agree about the better coordinating our efforts.

HUSch
Jan 06, 2011, 09:03 AM
The whale at Anjen is for Ama (I think), we need the agreement with them, that is the reason we don't build libs in Rigel.

Against Mav there is no attack/conquer chance before gunpowder, they 'll kill every stack we can land there. I don't know the chance of knights against cats.


I would propose a inquiry of Ama about a 4. degree units for HE.

AlphaShard
Jan 06, 2011, 09:26 AM
My worry is that by the time we get to Gunpowder they will be there as well.

I think your underselling strategy here Husch, had we stayed on the hill things may have gone differently.

HUSch
Jan 06, 2011, 01:28 PM
Alpha
I don't think so, they would allways build cats and then perhaps dash the stack. My experience with war and combat is very small.

Now to the game
It would be good, if you would play the other moves, Alpha. I don't 've time today.

Irgy
Jan 06, 2011, 02:17 PM
The whale at Anjen is for Ama (I think), we need the agreement with them, that is the reason we don't build libs in Rigel.

The map we went with in the end had the whales city on Anjennida assigned to us. So feel free to settle it.

One of the alternatives I sent effectively traded the whale city to them in exchange for the city to the east of Rigel (moved 1N of where they have it), but they didn't like that option.

Trystero
Jan 06, 2011, 04:24 PM
I think the whale city on Bode is much stronger than the one on Anjennida, since it has plains tiles rather than desert. If we want whales, I'd settle there first.

AlphaShard
Jan 06, 2011, 09:07 PM
Turn 138 - 560 AD

Status of Mav cities

Mav Home Island:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278043&stc=1&d=1294372652

Mave Spoke:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278044&stc=1&d=1294372698

Bode:

Nobody moved SW to blockade, Mariner picked up Spy.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278045&stc=1&d=1294372698

Anjen:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278046&stc=1&d=1294373092

Sol:

WE boarded ship for Bode, Claudius completed chop and is Mining hill now. Other two workers completed a chop as well for Betelguse.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278047&stc=1&d=1294372698

Demographics:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278048&stc=1&d=1294372698

HUSch
Jan 07, 2011, 11:01 AM
I 've the question/problem:
How is the gallay come to Goldcity? When had Mav move this? Why coudn't we destroy them? Can somebody say this to me. I didn't see them at my looking before our move. Am I blind or made they a double move.
Here is a pic from the turn after the attack, there is no gallay at the tile.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278088&stc=1&d=1294423187

They 've attack and with the new turn promoted and moved.

HUSch
Jan 07, 2011, 11:26 AM
This turn:
1. The new EI Excalibur goes at what? 2. ferry between our lands or south sea? it has moved!
2. I 've made some mm-changes
3. the worker at SOL should go at forests to chop there, after the forge is builded.

AlphaShard
Jan 07, 2011, 01:23 PM
husch in turn 520 they attacked AND moved, then in turn 540 they moved again but we took too long and they moved before we did. We didn't go far south enough to see them in the fog.

AlphaShard
Jan 08, 2011, 09:06 PM
New Turn is up!

Sirius completed it's Great Library, currently building EI. Though we can change that, it doesn't have a Barracks or Stable. We could build a settler here for Bode.

Canopus finished WE, We can build a worker or settler here though it's got some unhealthy in it and it's about to go up in pop so maybe a harbor, it will take 2 turns to finish if we do.

So we can offer up the Marble either for Sheep, Gold or just gift it for a few turns.

On Bode Hell_Hound finished a farm, free to something else.

Alphashard is free to move as well, should he Cottage 1N of Beta or work on mine with LP?

On Anjen Caveman is ready to chop forest 2E from Archnar?

EDIT: Actually I suggest Alphashard and the stack of troops outside of Beta move to the Fort sign and make the defensive fort there. They have alot of troops on their spoke. Also if we have enough navy we can stop any and all ships between Mav Island and Spoke

HUSch
Jan 09, 2011, 04:47 AM
Alpha
don't move 2 worker at the same tile, there are no reason for quick modernisize, so that is nonsense!

EDIT: Actually I suggest Alphashard and the stack of troops outside of Beta move to the Fort sign and make the defensive fort there. They have alot of troops on their spoke. Also if we have enough navy we can stop any and all ships between Mav Island and Spoke
We need a road there and a spy at the Mav spoke, our troops can stand at all tiles.
The worker at Bode should road to the new city-tiles, Beta needs not additional mine for 20 or more turns. We 'll whipp the granary after growing with pop 2.

Cave must chop this turn, any more turn cottage is for nothing. I did it.

btw
Why did you (or another) change the working tiles in Betei and Prokyon; forge and lh should have to build last turn. Additional why the change in Rigel? forest (+2 :hammers:) is better than coast.

HUSch
Jan 09, 2011, 05:14 AM
A proposal for worker on Bode the next turns
HH s at forest to raod or SE to farm
LP (I 've break the mining) and AS goes SE, next turn both worker road, in 3 turns the settler is ready in Sir and goes to ferry in 4 turns (when the worker has finished th roads the settler can go direction of blub 3 (for me the next city tile) found the town in 5. turn. the worker can mine the tile of LP, and break so that they can mine the other roaded tile for Blub 3.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278343&stc=1&d=1294575119


btw I would change the job in Can to missios (in AC after the WE), we need one in Arc and Beta, additional for the new towns

AlphaShard
Jan 10, 2011, 09:02 PM
We're in turn 620, I believe Slaze took his turn but didn't hit end turn.

I've been wanting to move that stack next to Beta over to Procyon's southern culture border. To ensure none of the Mav spoke forces surprise us. Maybe we should even consider attacking those city's.

Yamato and Nobody are now blockading Mav island from the spoke cities. Mariner is free to move after dropping off the spy last turn. Though I'm hesitant because I want to ensure no more Galley movements from the Mavericks. Excalibur is also on the way over to the area to further bolster our Navy.

Vega and Arcturus completed their builds and I put workers in since we are in dire need of workers, Procyon's land is very underdeveloped as is Vega's. Considering were about to settle another city there as well. Archnar I wasn't sure what to put in, so I put a Lighthouse to get more food from the clams. Unless someone has a better idea.

HUSch
Jan 12, 2011, 08:20 AM
There is no combat chance with a stack against them. Mav has enough cats to destroy every stack, if bigger than only better for them.
Best let the units on our land.

What is our most important goal now, few ideas:
a. research natio and build Taj
b. wait of guilds to build knights
c. improve our land
d. found more cities

AlphaShard
Jan 12, 2011, 08:42 AM
C and D

HUSch
Jan 12, 2011, 10:33 AM
I 've made a plan (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10108594&postcount=164) for BC

in Procyon I would build a market or lib, if we don't want to fight the next turns commerce-buildings are better; we 've there a lot of jungle to build cottages next.

a market can be whipped in 5-6 turns for 2 cits with some overlay. I 've changed to this.

Trystero
Jan 13, 2011, 02:48 AM
There is no combat chance with a stack against them. Mav has enough cats to destroy every stack, if bigger than only better for them.
Best let the units on our land.

What is our most important goal now, few ideas:
a. research natio and build Taj
b. wait of guilds to build knights
c. improve our land
d. found more cities

I'll agree with AlphaShard: C and D. Once we have more cities and improvements, we can build more units. And it seems to me that we can do B at the same time. (caveat: I have not logged into the game in a while, and this is based on the recent turn reports).

AlphaShard
Jan 13, 2011, 04:38 AM
Fell free to log in and check things out. :)

HUSch
Jan 13, 2011, 05:36 AM
I see we build a settler in Can, that is good, I 've changed the working of gold between Can and AC so that both produce optimal (0 mod 4) :hammers:.
In Betei changed so that the lh is finished this turn (it cost an additional :hammers:, but I think it's better).

The ferry should be wait for the settler (build in Sir next turn) and not take the 2. WE. The ferry must schedule exact to take first one settler to Bode and 2 turns later the next to the founding tile.

Which tiles we want found the next cities? Blub3 (I think it's clear) and Blub2 or the whale city at Bode (if this, at least 1 HA should go at Vega)

Worker this turn
At Anjen
Cave 79 (Numpad) t green and ws and break, (next turn 6 and cottage)
Husch 9and WS
at SOL
TC goes south, next turn cottage the last tile at Sirius
Tech/Pindi mine

AlphaShard
Jan 13, 2011, 05:46 PM
Do you guys want to sabotage the Iron on Maverick Island?

Also are we teching Nationalism now?

Trystero
Jan 13, 2011, 07:52 PM
Do you guys want to sabotage the Iron on Maverick Island?

If we are blockading and not intending to invade soon, I would say no, since they could easily replacement the improvement, it would only briefly interrupt unit building, and it would give away our espionage activity. I would only sabotage when we are about to attack, and want to prevent them from whipping additional units.

Also are we teching Nationalism now?

I'm not certain what the plan is, but I would vote "yes".

Irgy
Jan 13, 2011, 09:51 PM
So, I've been having some thoughts about our situation.

I recently read through Sulla's writeup of Realms Beyond Pitboss #2. In this, among many other things that happened, Sulla and Speaker fought off a 5-on-1 dogpile at close to tech parity, taking very little damage, and went on to basically win the game. Our and Quatronia's recent attempts to take on Mavericks on their home island remind me of this to a smaller extent. It's made me realise something: While being outproduced and outnumbered is a good way to lose in the long run, outproducing and outnumbering your opponent is a long way from being a surefire way to win an aggressive war against them.

We don't have an era's worth of tech lead against them at the moment. They have a decent counter to any unit we can send at them. Progress can be made, but it's slow, difficult and expensive.

So, here's what I think we should be doing at the moment. I'll admit some of it is inconsitent with things I've said in the past.

First, we need to spurn the ETTT into action. We want to win this war with a proper tech lead, and I now think that means something like Rifles and/or Cannons, which they really won't have any answer to. The ETTT can get there quickly if all the teams actually start researching again.

This comes with the cost of sharing our technology at a poor exchange rate once again, although at least before we do we're going to demand less spongeing. It'll still likely end up a poor deal still on paper but I still think the alternatives are worse. Otherwise we either at the very least give up what is an undeniably favourable 4 vs 2 situation, or keep the status quo where we're not researching much and neither is anyone else and the whole thing is stagnating and we're getting nowhere.

Spongeing or not, we're in a good position out of it. Quatronia might have wasted time cash upgrading warriors to maces, but then they seemed to lose them all in a failed attack on Mavericks, so it's not like they're ahead. Amazon may be teching slowly but they're also bearing the brunt of M&M's military. We're controlling one and a half spokes, and that's at least as much as anyone else is.

Secondly, we want to set ourselves up for modern-age research strength and development. At this rate, the game is going to be modern-age before the ETTT breaks up, so that's what we're primarily aiming for.

We still have quite a bit of land available. We need enough of a military to protect it, but otherwise we should be expanding and developing infrastructure as much as possible. So, workers and settlers now, infrastructure next, while maintaining enough of a military to defend but now worrying about trying to attack. If we want to be a modern-age powerhouse, I think mature cottages are the tile improvement of choice. We can spend what will be the ETTT time growing them, ready to outpace everyone once we break away from it. Personally I think practically every grassland on Ajennida and Sol should be cottaged and the rest farmed, and forget workshops other than some short term micro uses to speed up infrastructure (and the whip should still be better for that anyway).

Anyway, these are just my opinions, and not all of them relate to each other. I admit I'm a little out of touch with the details of the game, but my only main assumption is that broadly the ETTT teams are getting nowhere fast at the moment.

AlphaShard
Jan 14, 2011, 04:02 AM
Currently Merlot has been beaten back to their Island by Amazon and CDZ.

We are currently teching again for Nationalism.

Irgy
Jan 14, 2011, 06:05 AM
Merlot never really left the island though. I mean, they did, they settled a fair few cities. But the Merlot cities were always being harassed and at war with Amazon from the beginning. They never had a solid presence on any of the spokes the way Mavericks seem to now. That's my impression anyway.

BLubmuz
Jan 14, 2011, 12:54 PM
Nice to see that Irgy has about my same thoughts about settler/workers and development. With the current techs we haven't a clear advantage on single units and an advantage in numbers is almost impossible for an overseas invasion.

A strategy which can work is cannons+muskets+knights.

Cannons are powerful enough to have no counters until Cavalry, so they are good for offense and defense. If we manage to take Steel from Lib, build in the meantime a lot of Trebs (cheap to upgrade) we can probably have a good time window to harrass any enemy we choose.

This brings another topic: while i agree to extend our alliance with Amazon, i'm still thinking that we need to say goodbye to the other ETT members before we have the next tech.

In the meantime we develop our land and cities, we build some units for defense and a good number of EI.

AlphaShard
Jan 14, 2011, 01:05 PM
I have an idea how to say good bye to Quats at least, tell CDZ and Amazon about the Theatre's Quat built on the CDZ/Quat spoke. Clearly they are antagonizing CDZ. I got screen caps of them and obviously we can take caps of them inside the city. Though 4 turns from now when Pulsar Platue culture pops CDZ may notice what's happened.

Irgy
Jan 14, 2011, 02:12 PM
As much as I'd like to say goodbye to Quatronia as well, I ask you if we do, where are they going to turn? If we turn the ETTT into Amazon, CDZ and ourselves then we're going to find Quatronia working with M&M sooner or later. I don't think that's something we want.

We could try and restructure the ETTT teams into two separate north and south tech blocks, but I expect Amazon won't want to split with CDZ, and I'm not really sure the wisdom of doing that either.

Quatronia may be useless spongers, but I'd rather they were spongeing off us than helping M&M. There's nothing to stop us being a little forceful though in demanding they start contributing some actual research.


I agree with BLubmuz's cannons, knights, muskets plan, as well as the idea of getting Steeel from Liberalism. Steel is a good choice for Liberalism anyway, as it's an unusually expensive tech compared to its pre-requisites.

I might consider the following order of events though:
* Research most of the way to Steel.
* Dump Quatronia from the ETTT.
* Finish Chemisty (was nearly finished) next turn. Or even Amazon/CDZ finish Chemistry.
* Amazon and CDZ also finish a tech that turn (not sure which).
* Finish Liberalism (pre-researched) the turn after.
* Take Steel from Liberalism.
* Rush out / upgrade to cannons to add to an existing Musket/Knight force.
* Smack Mavericks hard and fast.

Either way I think we should finish Nationalism (since we're most of the way through it) and get Education next to start setting up our late game research.

If we're agreed to it as a course of action, we should send a message to the ETTT to try and get everybody else's research back on track. If we're agreed to dumping Quatronia later as a course of action we should send a message to CDZ to make sure they're onboard.

AlphaShard
Jan 14, 2011, 09:41 PM
Looks like Quat have decided to attack Poison city on the spoke.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=279002&stc=1&d=1295066446

HUSch
Jan 15, 2011, 09:01 AM
Quat have decided to attack Poison city on the spoke
finally they see, that is the only way, nearer of their home.

Irgy
I agree with your posts above, also with the solution, we need a better understanding about the ETT. And also I think we need a agreement with Ama about building libs everywhere.

Alpha
We get nothing from a dissens between CDZ and Quat. The last we need is a connection/goodwill between Quat and Mav from our diplomacy.
btw
CDZ can see the theatre in the Quat cities, if they look at it.

For the turn
I vote for another worker in Arc, buildings only until if our reli is their.
I would like to get our stone back and build in Sirius walls/fort for +1 TW for 50 netto :hammers:, in the moment we give them to Quat. Another idea is market in Sirius not a next EI. I would like in the moment another EI in our ocean, but in few turns there is no reason for it. We don't build many units now. So also no barracks or stables only libs first and then market (in Anjen we need a agreement).

worker
at SOL
Toch goes at forest near AC
at Bode
LP and Alpha mine the tile of LP
the worker from Vega goes at hill south of Arc
the worker from Arc goes at roaded jungle south of Procyon and chop (a guard from Procyon goes with him)

I wouldn't push the research, because after researching natio we want to build Taj for this we need our marble back (deal canceled in 8 turns). Also it's good to 've prosper cities at GA.

btw
is at clear that we research nation in ETT or can Ama /CDZ researching this also. What does the diplo know about it?

HUSch
Jan 15, 2011, 09:09 AM
Which tiles we want found the next cities? Blub3 (I think it's clear) and Blub2 or the whale city at Bode (if this, at least 1 HA should go at Vega)
There is no answer about the next after Blub3.

AlphaShard
Jan 15, 2011, 09:29 AM
What a bunch of moochers! They've had that stone for WAY then one more turn. Consider our stone back.

Husch can you explain in more detail how exactly CDZ can see Quat building Theatre's if their espionage points are being used on us instead of Quat?

I wanted the Vega worker (now named Azzaman per the player list) to develop tiles around Vega, putting down WS on the plains and farming the grassland tiles.

We have six city sites posted in game, Bulb2 & 3, Whales City, Spire City, Future City and Filler City.

So here would be my priority of settling:

Blub2 (to bolster the defense of the spoke against any Maverick attack)
Bulb3
Whales City
Future City
Spire City
Filler City

(We will be using star names, I'm just using the signs as references)

HUSch
Jan 15, 2011, 01:40 PM
What a bunch of moochers! They've had that stone for WAY then one more turn. Consider our stone back. Who? I don't understand the words/ the meaning.

Husch can you explain in more detail how exactly CDZ can see Quat building Theatre's if their espionage points are being used on us instead of Quat?
They can see the town and so all buildings, for some buildings, I 've made pics, some are known.

I wanted the Vega worker (now named Azzaman per the player list) to develop tiles around Vega, putting down WS on the plains and farming the grassland tiles. a WS at plain there is also good, I agree, farming is not so needed now.


Blub2 (to bolster the defense of the spoke against any Maverick attack)
there is no danger from any Mavs army, I don't understand your say this allways. Their army is destroyed brutal from Ama. Our army and Quats has got the same destiny.
btw
Now they 've an Quat army in their land and must reckon allways with a force from us. Additional there are no good land for this city without many worker-turns


The future city is a stick against Ama, imo we can't found a additional city on Anjen, without long discussion with them.

AlphaShard
Jan 15, 2011, 02:13 PM
Who? I don't understand the words/ the meaning.


Quatronia, they asked on Dec 3 to barrow stone for a turn to make Moai Statues. It's now Jan 15, over a month and SEVERAL turns.


They can see the town and so all buildings, for some buildings, I 've made pics, some are known.


That's still not explaining how CDZ should already know about the Theatres.


a WS at plain there is also good, I agree, farming is not so needed now.


Well eventually we will want to complete Vega's farm and WS tiles. We don't have to do it RIGHT now but then that's why I wanted more workers so each city could have their tiles developed.


there is no danger from any Mavs army, I don't understand your say this allways. Their army is destroyed brutal from Ama. Our army and Quats has got the same destiny.
btw
Now they 've an Quat army in their land and must reckon allways with a force from us. Additional there are no good land for this city without many worker-turns


Merlot is destroyed, not Maverick, they have a considerable force on the Spoke. I am glad that the Quat army is down there to cause them a ruckus but I wouldn't go turning a blind eye to those forces. Especially considering how lightly defended our Bode cities are.


The future city is a stick against Ama, imo we can't found a additional city on Anjen, without long discussion with them.


I don't really like future city either but it is better then Spire and Filler. Irgy said they already agreed to our city layout.

Irgy
Jan 15, 2011, 02:58 PM
"Future City" was part of the deal, we can settle it whenever we like.

HUSch
Jan 15, 2011, 03:21 PM
"Future city" has nothing, no river no bonus tile (without the clams of Procyon) and any jungle. And we can't there build a lib + monastery.
There is a city at the mav spire better, perhaps at the ruins of Jumbo. I don't know if we can found there a town after Blub3 at the other side of the sea.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=279067&stc=1&d=1295129869



Merlot is destroyed, not Maverick, they have a considerable force on the Spoke. I am glad that the Quat army is down there to cause them a ruckus but I wouldn't go turning a blind eye to those forces. Especially considering how lightly defended our Bode cities are. You 've seen, what with our Stack was? What kind of danger can there 've against some cats. If at Poison were cats, Quat hasn't land there.


btw
Thx for TP :goodjob:

AlphaShard
Jan 15, 2011, 04:54 PM
In the previous page I posted an image of Quat and the Mav forces

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=279002&stc=1&d=1295066446

There were in fact cats in Copper city. Currently there are only five trebs accompanying the Quat forces. Which was why I was suggesting we attack the Spot B city.

I'm sure these units will change once Slaze logs in and reacts to this:

Poison City:

1 Mace
2 War Elephant
2 Crossbow
1 Longbow
1 Spear
1 Warrior

Bubble Gum City:

1 Mace
2 Trireme
1 War Elephant
2 Crossbow
1 Axeman
1 Warrior

Copper City:

2 Mace
1 Galley
3 War Elephant
3 Crossbow
4 Catapault
1 Spear

Spot B
2 Cross
1 Chariot

^ That seems like a sizable army to me, especially since most of our cities are defended by a single archer or warrior. There may be units we can't see in the fog but again I wouldn't ignore the forces I just listed.

HUSch
Jan 16, 2011, 08:02 AM
That is a nice list, not especially new. The units are needed most for defense or against a landing army from us and now Quat. How many of the units (you mean) Mav can move at the spore-center, without losing their cities? That is the real question, I think 1-2 from Copper the same from Bubble, Poison needs more units or they 'll lose it. Irgy has said it, now is the time where every invasion-army has great problems not to die. Mav has this shown to us and Quat and before Ama to Mav and Merlot. We 've with roads in our land no problems with any army they can send.
Important is: there ie no Mav-army unknown for us at the spore. But for good sleeping (of you and me :D) I would like a spy at the ivory there to see it clear. We can build him in Arc this turn instead the worker.

btw
we know Ama has a spy there or at our land, want we ask them? I would like some spies at different lands, included Ama's and Mer's spore.

AlphaShard
Jan 16, 2011, 08:05 AM
I agree we need more information of other territory's. We could devote some Espionage points to CDZ or Merlot. I do like the idea of sending some spys into the Mav spoke.

BLubmuz
Jan 16, 2011, 08:14 AM
I see me and Irgy are on the same toughts. (Porabably because we were on the same team last SG). BTW Irgy, it's not official yet, but we should win a Bronze this time.

Sure we must refine the plan, but i think the guidelines are there.

About the new cities: the 3 on Bode, then i can't see any good spot.

To be worth the cost in terms of settler, worker turns and maintenance, a city must be productive quickly. When this can be true for all the Bode cities (present and future) looking at their potential commerce and/or production, i can't see more for now.

I think that after those cities we'll settle by the axe (or whatever). In other words, no more settlers after the ones to fill Bode.

And let's keep the army we have, just some LB for MP and for a minimal defense.

One rule, IMO: the new cities must build structures until they're developed. Work boats and military will be provided by more developed ones.

AlphaShard
Jan 16, 2011, 10:12 AM
It's not like the rest of us are in disagreement with you Blubmuz. :)

Well we have one settler on the way, one being built so we only need one more for Bode to be fully settled. We still need more workers though.

I agree on your city assement which is why I don't like the remaining free area on the Anjen spoke. The only thing I do want is the land for Domination victory.

HUSch
Jan 16, 2011, 04:56 PM
Alpha
do you know a MP with real dom victory? I know none, the same is right for all other vics, if there is a vic, it's military, perhaps a diplo, when some teams 1 choose ( in German Web forbidden). I 've heard of alpha-races in some mps, but this is more a situation, where a military vic isn't possible.

Short and clear (a german proverb) without a vic in a war against Ama, we coudn't win this DG, so we needn't an additional town in Anjen.

btw
In Rigel should after growing whipp a worker possible.

AlphaShard
Jan 16, 2011, 06:44 PM
I have seen Domination victory in MP, usually with Vassaling.

Irgy
Jan 16, 2011, 10:10 PM
Who would want to vassal themselves in a demogame though? In fact why do people vassal in multiplayer at all?

Our intrateam game was a domination victory, but I think it was fairly exceptional. You don't win domination by settling a bit of extra land here and there, you win by defeating most of the rest of the world militarily, the victory condition is just the point in time when they're forced to conceed the fact that you had already won the game a long time ago.

AlphaShard
Jan 16, 2011, 10:50 PM
Who would want to vassal themselves in a demogame though? In fact why do people vassal in multiplayer at all?


To end the game quicker, especially if you've been sitting there for 6-8 hours playing one game.


Our intrateam game was a domination victory, but I think it was fairly exceptional. You don't win domination by settling a bit of extra land here and there, you win by defeating most of the rest of the world militarily, the victory condition is just the point in time when they're forced to conceed the fact that you had already won the game a long time ago.

The hope was to conquer enough of Mav--> Quat --> CDZ land. Though I'm sure we'll have to fight anyways, I'm just glad Domination is active is all.

AlphaShard
Jan 16, 2011, 11:13 PM
I logged in, just wanted to see what actions we needed to discuss and found this from the Quat's (IE Cav Scout):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=279248&stc=1&d=1295244684

They still need the use of the Stone for Moai statues, looking at turn Tracker they had it from around turn 129-131. At the time they said they only needed it for one turn. So I don't know if this is BS or they are just very poor at doing this.

Current actions to do this turn:

Sol:
Toch
Move Missionary to ferry point

Bode:
Azzaman-> Mine
LP
Settler to Bulb2 or Bulb3?
Wounded Excalibur heal?
2 War Elephants to move
Stack at Procyon

Spy at Mav Isle, sleep anywhere in particular?
Also what should Mariner do?

Anjen:
Caveman WS or Cottage

Also AC finished missionary, they are about to pop growth so I put in Harbor since they are at their Health Cap.

HUSch
Jan 17, 2011, 08:05 AM
Military units heals or sleep.
Settler to Blub 3 (my vote), Blub 2 has nothing.

Ask Quat ingame about stone? How long they need it?

AlphaShard
Jan 17, 2011, 08:14 AM
Bulb2 has Incense and one Clam.

Quat want it for one turn, which is exactly what they said over 10 turns ago.

BLubmuz
Jan 17, 2011, 01:38 PM
It's not like the rest of us are in disagreement with you Blubmuz. :) Good to hear, but i was referring to my cannons/muskets/knights plan.

I already acknowledge we're on the same line about the need to develop our land and cities, but my proposal on this mid-term strategy was completely new.

I haven't see any comment on it... it would be nice to hear some, then if wee agree we can try to draft a real plan.

Bulb2 has Incense and one Clam. For the fort and strategically Blub2 (incense/fort, IIRC) has precedence, even if the other city will be far more productive. OTOH, being less productive (but with great commerce) is another good reason to settle it first.

And let's not forget the Whales city.

I will also feel better if any city can have a LB with CG1 in it.

HUSch
Jan 17, 2011, 02:01 PM
Blub 3 has in few turns a mine, what has Blub2?
Blub2 is only good as canal, so without fort there is nothing good there. So at least the town needs more worker for any good. In the moment the worker has t he south of Procyon to chop.

Blub
Do you mean "every city" or real "any city"?

For me the canal town has last priority, only because we 've better spots.

Btw
If you want the canal town now, make a plan, to show how good the town is and what you need for it. For founding there you 've to make some (many) preps.

BetaCent has in few turns the break even, after 15 turns.

And please don't say again we need a defense against Mav.

AlphaShard
Jan 17, 2011, 03:16 PM
I think Blubmuz means ever city in Bode, I also do think we need defenses in Bode. We do at least have a standing army there so that is good but it would be good to have at least one LB in each of Bode's cities.

Blub2 has 2 incense, mine, and clam. So it's not a bad city to settle like Future or Filler cities look to be.

The second city seems to only be 4+ turns behind, I definitly think we need to decide who will build the Whales city settler. Once we have that one built bye bye Barb Galley's.

Why are you discounting Incense?

HUSch
Jan 18, 2011, 03:40 AM
Alpha
Blub2 may be a good city, I think so; but now there is no infrastructure. After founding the city should be build the fort immediatly. Imo we need roads there and 2 worker at the founding turn.
Look at the spot and show me how you 'll build there anything; no mine, no food. The incense is nice, but we don't need it now and the town can work at it in ~40 turns. Without canal the town is a cripple.
Procyon needs and can use worker better.

AlphaShard
Jan 18, 2011, 04:15 AM
That's why we build more workers, the Clam is already settled thanks to Mav. There is a hill there which can be mined.

HUSch
Jan 18, 2011, 12:57 PM
We 've no worker there now, but when you want to settle there, move LP this turn to help fed chop and break and next turn move both (LP and Fed) south again, 1 at incense to road and the other at hill to road there. Next turn the new worker from AC also at some roaded tile there chop, break and then at the hill (if roaded) or wait 1 turn til it's roaded to help there. The foremost south should after road at incense go to the fort tile and road there.

Generally I would whipp the market in Procyon and change the mine to AC gives an additional :hammers: for the worker ( As I logged in, I've changed the working tiles in AC, forest is 1 better than farm, because the better number). We can build a worker in Rigel now and whipp him after 2-3 turns. I vote against the barracks in Betei, we don't need it, any other building is better, lib or market, in few turns we can/should research again.
btw
Quat research natio also; we should message our Allies.
Mav has no cats near Poison, that I don't understand, at their isle they 've seen the effect of them, perhaps they 've it in the fow.

AlphaShard
Jan 18, 2011, 03:34 PM
We have little over four hours to go, I want to make sure we finish the turn soon.

HUSch
Jan 19, 2011, 09:41 AM
Alpha
thx for your doing.
I'm a pinchpenny (I know) and you generous, but why do you move the worker at the hill near Blub 3? It's a move for nothing. Better were a cottage or farm at the roaded tile south of BC and break. Next turn, we should mine the roaded hill with 2 worker, so that we 've a mine for the new town in 2 turns, the worker 've to go over the founded city at the roaded hill.
Additional, the settler should be move at the founding tile in the same turn with founding the city (unit supply).

AlphaShard
Jan 19, 2011, 09:54 AM
That was his last move so next turn when city is founded he can begin mining. The new city will have at least one clam availbe, I think it will have to culture pop before getting the other.

The settler on Sol can now go to Bulb 2 or Whales, we should plan what city will build the next settler. Also still need more workers.

On the diplo front I haven't seen anything on what we should say to Quat about the stone. Am I right in thinking they are dicking around with it?

HUSch
Jan 19, 2011, 03:24 PM
What is the meaning of "dicking"?

I 've looked at the game
my proposal
Canopus markert or Spy
AC (after getting the reli) courthouse
Vega another missio
Procyon whip the market for mine+ sea or change (perhaps better) to worker whip him in 2 turns and build the market with the overlay

Situation at Blub 3:
you are right, we need there nothing quick, LP can road the tile and Alpha goes at the roaded hill and mine, job in Blub3 granary work the clam, grow in 5 turns and then the mine is ready. LP can road and then road the line to Procyon.
The worker from AC helps Fed (near Procyon) chop the jungle or 1 tile more to chop the jungle there.

The question is, we 've a settler, where do we want to found the city
Whales or Canal now. The worker near at AC (finish farming) goes in the direction of the cityfounding tile. If Whales, he goes West at the roaded hill near vega; if Canal he goes at AC, to go next turn in SE-direction.

BLubmuz
Jan 19, 2011, 05:07 PM
Despite the previous discussion you settled Blub3 before Blub2.

I thought we were agreed on the priority:
Blub2 > Blub3 > Whales

Now please, Blub2 then Whales. I already stated my reasons. It would be nice that if you disagree you let me know, so i can try to convince you.

What about the team now researching Nationalism? The end of the ETT is near?

AlphaShard
Jan 19, 2011, 05:36 PM
Trystero and Irgy hadn't put forth a vote on it, I decided to go with Husch on this one since Bulb 3 would be faster to develop.

Bulb 2 will be next, we also have to queue up more workers as well.

I honestly don't know how to get out of this ETTT short of causing an incident that gets us in hot water.

Who is our Quat Diplomat?

When you say AC do you mean Alpha Centuari?

also Dicking means messing around without getting anything done.

HUSch
Jan 20, 2011, 09:53 AM
Irgy is our diplomat. Have we one different for any team?

What is this about the end of Ett? If we rotate wrong we are fly out the ETT and the game.
Do the other teams (especial Ama) know, we research natio?

AlphaShard
Jan 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
Were supposed to have a different Diplomat for each team. Though with so few players maybe it is good for Irgy to talk to the rest as well. Either him or Trystero.

I could put forth any deals we want to do I just wanted to get more input on the Quat's need for stone before making any deals with them. They did offer us Silver, even though we have it already.

We haven't discussed the reasearch with CDZ or Quat, another thing we need to address to the ETT as a whole.

We can slow our reasearch for now as well, I've been wanting to put some Espionage points on Merlot and CDZ.

Trystero
Jan 20, 2011, 05:14 PM
Hey guys - sorry I've been (mostly) absent a long while. I logged into the game to look at the current situation.

I am the Quat diplomat. We want to tell them that we are both researching Nationalism, correct? How do we know this about Quat? By espionage? Maybe it's better that we write a letter to the whole ETTA. I agree with Irgy's earlier assessment that we try to encourage the rest of the ETTA to focus on research so that we develop a significant tech lead over Mav/Merlot. I will try to look over the diplo threads and catch up.

Edit: As of the last diplomatic message we got from Quatronia, they were researching Printing Press. I don't think we've received that from them in-game.

AlphaShard
Jan 20, 2011, 07:30 PM
Good to know your still around Trystero! :)

We also wanted to discuss the Stone issue, whether we should trade it to them or not. Yes through espionage we can see them researching Nationlism at 5 turns.

This may put a crimp on our Taj Mahal plans.

Also Poison City has been burned.

There is one chariot in Spot B. Quat still have a force on the Spoke and now Amazon has a Horseman in the area as well.

Trystero
Jan 20, 2011, 11:28 PM
Yeah, sorry again for going missing. I had a bunch of things going on at home and work.

Looking at the turn report, are we running specialists in Rigel? It has 10 pop and a bunch of unimproved tiles (not that I'm criticizing. :))

Also, maybe we should switch back to binary research if we are going to focus on research again?

HUSch
Jan 21, 2011, 01:45 PM
Hello
We don't need additional units. What is the reason for LBs? Every unit cost 1.
Question: Against who? CDZ or Quat or Ama? Mer and Mav will and can not attack us. They 've not enough potential. btw Quat has destroyed Poison.
btw we 've 8 archer, which can upped to LBs, if needed.

We want to improve our cities, so build libs and markets, no barracks. Only units are settler, worker and missios, perhaps an additional spy.


btw
Mer has researched Guilds and Quat researched in 4 turns natio.

AlphaShard
Jan 21, 2011, 01:48 PM
Clearly someone didn't read my above post.

The LB is because the city has NO defense. I rather not leave a city wide open, plus there is the happy cap to think of.

How do you know Mer has Guilds?

AlphaShard
Jan 21, 2011, 05:16 PM
I guess we can give Quat stone if were not building anything stone related right now.

Edit: I see the Merlot got Guilds in the trade window. Well they got knights, this is really starting to suck. Looks like we need to go to Gunpowder. This not teching is going to bite us.

Trystero
Jan 21, 2011, 05:35 PM
Sounds good. I'll write a short message saying we'll need it back in a turn or so.

AlphaShard
Jan 21, 2011, 06:58 PM
So that means that Mavericks will be able to build knights. I would like to actually burn all Mav cities on the spoke. Quat already got rid of Poison.

Trystero
Jan 22, 2011, 01:17 AM
I was looking at the game again. Two observations:

Unit maintenance isn't a big problem, but city maintenance is becoming one:

I think it is time we should start building courthouses:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0501.jpg

Also, Rigel is a problem:

It is working 4 unimproved tiles. I realize a library is an issue with Amazon, but surely we can run a merchant or an engineer?

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0502.jpg

So that means that Mavericks will be able to build knights. I would like to actually burn all Mav cities on the spoke. Quat already got rid of Poison.

I don't think knights are too much of a concern yet. We can make pikes and have longbows. I think we should stick to the plan and develop our cities, before we gear up for war again. That said, I think we should have one city devoted to building military at any given time. Even if it's trebs to upgrade to cannons later.

Also, we can finish Nationalism in 2 turns if we move the slider up to 100%.

AlphaShard
Jan 22, 2011, 07:58 AM
I think an Engineer would be really good for Rigel, it does need all the hammers it can get.

Yeah we have been ignoring Courthouses, cities on Bode would do well to build them.

The prob that I'm worried with the teching it in 2 turns is having to give it over. Also if we are going to build Taj Mahal we need our Marble back.

HUSch
Jan 22, 2011, 08:36 AM
The problem with Mer has Guilds is, they 've a tech-lead against the Ett. They 've no horses at the isle, only at the spoke.
The LB is because the city has NO defense. I rather not leave a city wide open, plus there is the happy cap to think of.
what is the reason for LB, the city has no defense. We can up all the archer if you want it, and we can move there 10 or more units from Procyon or BC. Against happy cap we can move any units we 've, additional we get our religon there and so 've +1 and build markets.

Our costs with units we don't need is a problem. Our additional cities also, that pushs our civics costs.

Now with Knights you can fear the Mav army more. They can build them at the spoke Quat is attack Bubble to get a horse rwes. Til frigates we 've the power at sea, so there is no possibility of any attack-surprise from them. I don't know about our allies.

Trystero
Jan 22, 2011, 11:02 PM
Our costs with units we don't need is a problem. Our additional cities also, that pushs our civics costs.

I will look over the military situation, but because of the current research situation we have lots of gold available. I think we should reduce expenditures where we can (courthouses), but military is something we need. We should upgrade any units we can (definitely archers to LBs). But I agree it's better to move an existing unit to guard a new city than build a new one.

Did we move the research slider up? Should we?

AlphaShard
Jan 23, 2011, 06:32 AM
We either get an advanced tech lead on Mav/mer which means yes the ett will as well. Or we build a truly massive army.

AlphaShard
Jan 23, 2011, 07:28 AM
I think we need better cordination with our teams if were to destroy the Mav/Mer.

I mean while were trying to get that tech lead the Mav/Mer will be building knights they have two horses so both the Mer and Mav can be building them.

AlphaShard
Jan 23, 2011, 09:08 PM
Well we should get Nationalism and be able to work on Taj Mahal next turn.

HUSch
Jan 24, 2011, 08:32 AM
I trhink, Ama and CDZ can blockade the mer-isle, it should not very difficult. That has also the advantage of blockade foreighn TWs for them.

HUSch
Jan 24, 2011, 03:27 PM
Now turn 147
The settler in canopus is for the whales-city, ready in 2 turns (t 149). a ferry should go near AC to take him to the founding place, also we need there at least 1 guard against a barb there, I think 2 units Mace or HA from Procyon goes at Dawntreader and Dawn goes near AC, when the settler goes onboard (t 149), Dawn goes at founding tile, the settler goes there t 150 and found the city t 151.

Question, where do we build the wb?
A chance would be Vega, the founding tile is so, that we need the 1 cultexp before we need a wb, that would be in turn 156, a wb needs 5 turns to go to whales, so it must be ready turn 151, that colided with the market there;
Another is AC, the harbor is ready next turn and a wb would be ready in 2 turns then (t 150); it can be there (whales) at turn 155, so we can then also fishing the clam there. It would better I think fishing the clam first, perhaps we build the wb for the whales in AC also. The city 'll work at oasis first and job is granary. We need there also some worker too mine a plain-hill (4 :hammers: no :food:) for this the worker from Arc should go there.

HUSch
Jan 24, 2011, 03:38 PM
In Vega we build a market finish in 4 turns with growing in 4 turns, I don't like this, we 've now
39 + 4*31= 163 - 150 = 13/1.25 = 10 overlay, an alternative is we switch hillmine to farm growin in 2 turns and switch then back additional switch a farm to forest and the new cit as engineer, then we 've
39+ 2*27 + 2*36 = 165 - 150 = 15/ 1.25 = 12 the better value is main because the even netto :hammers: production.

We 've only 5 hours, I 'll change for this, if there is disagreement about it, change back, also I 'll move Dawn with 2 units. Additional I 've switched some MM in Arc, Procyon and Rigel

HUSch
Jan 24, 2011, 03:47 PM
To build Taj in the next turn would not be good, we get the marble in 4 turns first (the barb is no way, I think). I would not begin with taj without it.
What is our next goal in research, that we take/want a large overlay.

HUSch
Jan 25, 2011, 02:59 PM
CDZ has researched edu.

HUSch
Jan 25, 2011, 03:37 PM
We 've nationalism now and want build Taj.
We should say this the ETT and so say we 'll not give natio in the next turns. Additional we should say Ama that we cancel the marble deal at first possibility (in 3 turns 820 AD, I think).
First we must decide when want we 've the GA, possible quick or later, how great is the chance that another (Quat) can build it. I think they need 3 turns to research natio and 've no marble, we can see if they build it, if we spend some EsP at them. I would like we do this against Mav and the other.

Situation in Sirius
market 86/150 + 36 [18 (+100%)] :hammers: and + 2 :food:
If we whip for 2 cits we get 206/150

If we want to hurry then:
To hurrythe building of Taj, it would be good to whip the market. But not now, because we get only +100% for the overlay, if we do it in 2 turns we lost a turn without marble.

Normal build with additional engineer we 've 20 netto :hammers:
2 turns without marble is 2*40, then with 80/700
11 turns with 60
together 13 turns

If we 've more time ( I think so), so long we don't deal the tech
we take no engineer, but grow normal in Sirius, we 've 18 netto :hammers:
2 turns without marble is 2*36, then with 72/700
12 turns with 54
together 14 turns

So it's only 1 turn we win if we take an engineer. for that we give the chance to grow and push the fresh builded cottage.

For preparing the GA it's best now don't whip in our cities (if it#S not necessary. Our plan for building in BC needs no whipping, what we doing in the other we must decide in every cause.


For the turn now, I see 3 EI in the south sea, what should they do?

AlphaShard
Jan 25, 2011, 04:10 PM
Two of the EI are blockading.

Also Altair (Bulb2) has been founded and the worker that finished the road is building a plantation on the Incense. Nothing else has been done yet.

Quat is researching Printing Press. I had put in for Edu but if CDZ has it what should we research instead?

Trystero
Jan 25, 2011, 10:44 PM
I would go for Gunpowder next (or perhaps Military Tradition), in keeping with a "prioritize military" plan. Is this what we are all agreed on (prioritizing military, that is)?

I'm busy tonight, but I will put together a message for ETTA as soon as I can. Both to straighten out the research situation and to inform the others of our intent to build Taj. We should also prioritize universities as soon as we are able so we can get Oxford in Sirius. I'll also look over HUSch's plan.

HUSch: Why do we not want to give away Nationalism if we are going to tell the rest of the ETTA about Taj?

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 04:19 AM
Gunpowder is not available yet.

I say Nationalism for Edu is a good trade.

HUSch
Jan 26, 2011, 07:50 AM
I would go for constitution or mil-trad

Trystero
perhaps 1 team has an engineer and then we get no Taj, I 've a wrong emotion/feeling about the ETT; our situation with Quat is very ambiguous.

I think perhaps other teams 've better diplomacy than we, or better every team has better diplomacy than we; because we 've none; I can't it in German DGs and here there is additional the foreighn speech.
We 've no info about the other teams and play the game (cards) near the chest. In my mind I reckon with some galleons with berserk at our coast; I 've no fear about Mavs army but about the other (our allies). I 'll say there is no reason for this, but do we have a long time pact with them, or is it the same as Ama. I know nothing and I hope you know it.

HUSch
Jan 26, 2011, 07:58 AM
Say a barb did it.

They 'll good think about us, if we a barb permit to destroy our improvement.

We've already had one barb axe come down that way. The only thing stopping more is the caraval.

Perhaps it would be best, if we move some units to our res. It would be stupid, if some barb pillage our res, when we need it.

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 08:15 AM
There's a ship already spawn busting that area.

We do need to improve our dimplomatic communication we do not have a long term pact with CDZ or Quat, just ETT.

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 05:10 PM
Ok in game request to trade Nationlism for Education offered by CDZ, I need a vote on if we should accept or not. I wanted to play our turn since we have 4 hours left. So far I have Husch against, I'm for it since we need tech and at least it's one good tech for another.

Trystero
Jan 26, 2011, 05:14 PM
Aren't we both still in the ETTA? Under those terms we have to accept (and give Nationalism to Amazon and Quat).

Regardless I vote for the trade. Universities would be good.

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 06:51 PM
Okay so we need to start building Taj asap, Sirius has a base of 18 Hammers, Canopus 24 and Arcturus has 25 as base. Both Canopus and Arcturus can start working on it next turn as they are finishing their builds next turn. So far it looks like Arcturus can do it faster, the tooltip says 19 turns we will get Marble back in 4 turns from now?

What if we whip in Canopus or Arcturus for more overflow? They have a higher base hammer then Sirius does.

I accepted the trade so now we can research Liberalism in 3 turns. We should find out what CDZ is teching.

Also why is there a HA and Mace on Dawn Treader? Where are they going?

Trystero
Jan 26, 2011, 07:33 PM
I am hesitant to commit our best production city to (give or take) 19 turns of production for basically a Golden Age. I mean, a GA is nice, but it is also a one-time benefit. And apart from the culture and GPP, that is all you are going to get from Taj Mahal. Also, we are in an alliance with the other 3 teams potentially building this wonder. We should be able to discuss building the wonder with them so that we can build it at our leisure rather than trying to rush it. We should not be playing as if the ETTA and our NAPs don't exist.

Besides I think we could use this to our advantage. If Quat wants to build Taj, we could agree so long as they allow us to build, say, the Statue of Liberty, which is of greater long term benefit. If we really need a GA now (or soon) we could burn a GP on it. We have hardly used GP (or specialists) in this game at all.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 07:45 PM
That has been the crux here I think. On one hand they're our allies but yet there is the "Only one can be the winner" thing. How do you reconcile that one day we will be at war with them? It just seems sad that there is no other option for winning these games.

Anyrate we could talk to them about this Wonder, I do think a GA would be good especially to use in changing our civics. We don't have our Marble back either.

I think it's evident that we really have been lacking in our communications to our ally's.

Irgy
Jan 26, 2011, 08:34 PM
The Taj is worth the cost of building, but not necessarily worth racing for. I like Trystero's idea of agreeing to let Quatronia have in exchange for first dibs on something else.

The communication has indeed been poor, and it's partly our own diplomats' fault (including myself) and partly the other teams' faults. We really need to keep more of a dialogue going rather than only communicating at the last minute when something urgent comes up.

Can I just say that while we're still under the ETTT, even if we in some regards don't want to be, we should be continuing to transfer our techs. Even the act of saying we'll take a team vote on something we've actually already agreed to do reflects very badly on our integrity, and needlessly so if we do make the trade anyway. If we want to end the ETTT there's a right way of doing it and refusing tech trades in game is not it.

AlphaShard
Jan 26, 2011, 08:48 PM
I asked for a vote to not piss anyone off.

Irgy
Jan 26, 2011, 09:57 PM
I'm not criticising you for anything there Alphashard, I'm just making a general point about the situation.

Trystero
Jan 26, 2011, 10:24 PM
I think the Taj is a good wonder, but I think it is much better if we weren't in a mostly-cooperative situation. At this point half the benefit (commerce/research) would essentially be shared with the alliance. That is why I think other options are better.

I agree with Irgy in that we cannot continue to be grudgingly part of the ETTA. In part, our hesitance to go "all-in" has got us into the situation where we are now, where our tech edge in military has largely been lost.

I also agree that the diplomacy has been awful, and that my recent inactivity is a major factor. I will try to remedy that.

Trystero
Jan 27, 2011, 02:36 AM
FYI - I logged in to look at our tech situation and didn't realize a new turn had started. I had to pick builds for Canopus and Arcturus, so I put courthouses in each queue as a placeholder.

AlphaShard
Jan 27, 2011, 06:12 AM
I'd like to dicuss Wonder building here, personally I like Spiral Mineret for the money. University of Sankore is good for Beakers as well, though we'd need our stone back for either of those.

I like the idea of MoM to get longer GA.

Also if anyone wants to play the current turn I think that would be good to other team members back into the swing of things.

HUSch
Jan 27, 2011, 10:50 AM
Mausi before Taj,
With taj we get our cities better. Together 60 netto :hammers: each turn for 8 turns, costs with marble 234 in Sirius. It's 100 % gain. 13 turns in Sirius. How can the other teams makes more from this.

I looked in the game and switch in canaltown to clam, better than incense.

We 've give away natio :D
we research lib for what? What tech we take then, science to end the Ett or what?
We play for the other teams only or what?

AlphaShard
Jan 27, 2011, 11:37 AM
We didn't give it away, we got education. Frankly were stagnating and no were not playing for the other teams only.

HUSch
Jan 27, 2011, 11:41 AM
Trystero
What is good at Liberty, it costs 500 netto in Sirius and 600 in another city, would you want it in SOL or at the continent? At continent more towns, more gain, at SOL the better towns or?
500 in SOL are 27 turns
600 in Arc are 35 turns.

Imo we build Taj.

HUSch
Jan 27, 2011, 11:52 AM
Research Lib (2093) to get Constitution (2990) is stupid. So research lib is stupid, because the best is science (lost of Lib). demo or steel (4186) is a good tech for lib. So wait with researching lib.

AlphaShard
Jan 27, 2011, 12:04 PM
You know there was a nicer way of saying lets put Lib on hold.

BTW I never said what tech to get. We still don't know what Amazon and CDZ are even teching.

Irgy
Jan 27, 2011, 01:11 PM
HUsch: The plan is not to finish Liberalism yet, just to research most of it. Then we're going to tech our way to Chemistry, and take Steel with Liberalism. So don't worry about us not getting much out of Liberalism, it's an investment for a later turn.

Also, until you have a specific alternative to remaining in the ETTT that's not going to simply isolate us, please stop complaining about it every single time we research a tech. We've talked about this at length, it's not a fair deal for us beaker wise but it is a better deal than singling ourselves out as a runaway with a target on our heads. Telling Alphashard not to trade the tech when we're in an agreement to trade techs, and in the middle of telling our allies to start researching harder, just makes us look stupid.

Trystero
Jan 27, 2011, 02:49 PM
AlphaShard: I can play the current turn. Do we have anything pending? What are the next builds in Canopus and Arcturus? Are courthouses OK? I will take a look at our cities when I play the turn.

HUSch: SoL was just an example. I'm not strongly advocating that we build it necessarily. I think my main point was that we shouldn't rush to build Taj without discussing it with Quatronia, who might have had the same idea. We don't know who we will end up being aligned with in the endgame, so it's best not to needlessly aggravate other teams. I also think we should consider whether wonderbuilding is the best use of our hammers at this time (I don't know myself).

HUSch
Jan 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
1. There is no need for additional units.
2. we 've now all our good founding tiles with cities (The wale city's settler is build in Canopus)
3. Our reason for researching natio was building taj, best with marble.
4. the situation with our allies is a desaster. One prevent us from building our best building (lib), with the other we made a race which one can get a Mav's town (Pyras), so that we both get nothing only blooded noses.

We (have to) wait for better techs to get a chance against Mav/Mer. I hope we can do it before they can get frigates.

btw in the German DG: our gallon won against a EI at coast, 4 %.

For this turn, there is the transport of the settler to the whales city and build a 1-2 wb if possible for the new town in AC best. I Think we 've turn 150 so the change should be next turn in Beta Cent
T 151: with (12/24 +0:food: and 34/60 +11 :hammers:) change clam to mine
T 154: granary is builded. with (12/24 :food: ) change mine to clam and build forge

AlphaShard
Jan 27, 2011, 04:40 PM
Yes Courthouses are good, were planing on also getting WB's built for the new Whales city (TBN Capella).

Trystero
Jan 27, 2011, 06:02 PM
OK - I will stick with courthouses. AC will finish a WB next turn and then build another for Capella.

Questions:
What is the caravel Mariner suppose to do?
What is the EI Excalibur suppose to do?
What is the spy on Mavericks home island suppose to do?
Where are the units on Dawn Treader going? (to pick up the settler?)
Do I send the new worker in Arcturus to Altair?
What is Ironsides doing?

Thanks! :)

AlphaShard
Jan 27, 2011, 06:58 PM
OK - I will stick with courthouses. AC will finish a WB next turn and then build another for Capella.

Questions:
What is the caravel Mariner suppose to do?
What is the EI Excalibur suppose to do?
What is the spy on Mavericks home island suppose to do?
Where are the units on Dawn Treader going? (to pick up the settler?)
Do I send the new worker in Arcturus to Altair?
What is Ironsides doing?

Thanks! :)

1) Mariner is staying near Gold city to make sure Galley doesn't come out. Until we can find something better.
2) Be back up for the other Galleons
3) Keep tabs on the forces
4) I believe to the soon to be founded (Capella) Whales city.
5) Use your best judgement, unless Husch has a better idea.
6) I had left that ship there to take the settler.

Trystero
Jan 27, 2011, 10:09 PM
Done! I hope I did OK, I'm a bit rusty. I moved the new worker from Arcturus toward the whale city site since there aren't any workers in that vicinity.


1. There is no need for additional units.
2. we 've now all our good founding tiles with cities (The wale city's settler is build in Canopus)
3. Our reason for researching natio was building taj, best with marble.
4. the situation with our allies is a desaster. One prevent us from building our best building (lib), with the other we made a race which one can get a Mav's town (Pyras), so that we both get nothing only blooded noses.

1. I would disagree. Military is everything. We want to have a force to attack Mavericks (either the island or on the other spire) as soon as we get the necessary techs. Example: We should build a stack of 20 or more City Raider-promoted siege units that we can upgrade to cannons as soon as Steel is available. Also we should be building CR-promoted maces to upgrade to rifles that can't get the CR promotion. We will need EI for transport as well. After the courthouse, Arcturus (or another city) should do nothing but build units. We need at least one city committed to building military at all times. (We might consider switching to Vassalage/Theocracy as soon as is feasible)
2. Agreed. Get these cities up and running, tech to Steel, and then build a huge army.
3. OK - but let's discuss this or at least make it known to the rest of the ETTA that we want to do this.
4. We can fix our diplomacy. If we want to build a library and university in Rigel, let's tell Amazon, so they can build a culture building to offset our new culture.

HUSch
Jan 28, 2011, 01:38 PM
1. I would disagree. Military is everything. We want to have a force to attack Mavericks (either the island or on the other spire) as soon as we get the necessary techs. Example: We should build a stack of 20 or more City Raider-promoted siege units that we can upgrade to cannons as soon as Steel is available. Also we should be building CR-promoted maces to upgrade to rifles that can't get the CR promotion. We will need EI for transport as well. After the courthouse, Arcturus (or another city) should do nothing but build units. We need at least one city committed to building military at all times. (We might consider switching to Vassalage/Theocracy as soon as is feasible)

We can't win a combat with the units we can build, so building of units is stupid.
Next time if we want to go to war, we 'll (have to) change the civics to natio (you want vassal) and theo and then build better weapon. For this (Civic change) we should build now all needed buildings in our towns now. Every unit we build now cost 1 :gold:/turn and the additional upp-cost and give nothing. For 2-3 towns with military prod to change the civics is wrong. Best for change is the last turn of the (or a) GA.


4. We can fix our diplomacy. If we want to build a library and university in Rigel, let's tell Amazon, so they can build a culture building to offset our new culture.
We 've crea and reli + (I want) lib, uni, monastery in Rigel.
btw
Irgy said long ago, we 've promised reli for them, we should do this

AlphaShard
Jan 28, 2011, 01:45 PM
That may have been before they got there own religion. However that may help with the Culture issue for them.

We should send a message to Amazon telling them how we want to build them so we can get this going. Should we gift the missionary or just send them in?

Trystero
Jan 28, 2011, 04:09 PM
We can't win a combat with the units we can build, so building of units is stupid.
Next time if we want to go to war, we 'll (have to) change the civics to natio (you want vassal) and theo and then build better weapon. For this (Civic change) we should build now all needed buildings in our towns now. Every unit we build now cost 1 :gold:/turn and the additional upp-cost and give nothing. For 2-3 towns with military prod to change the civics is wrong. Best for change is the last turn of the (or a) GA.


Building units is NOT stupid. Our economy is strong and is getting stronger (with markets, new cities, etc.). We can easily save up money to upgrade older units. Rifles cannot get CR promotions. Having CR-promoted maces we can upgrade is highly advantageous. Units built now do not "give nothing". They are units we don't have to build when we get to Steel or Rifling. At 100% research we can tech Gunpowder in 4 turns and Chemistry in 6 turns. We don't want to be building units when we get Steel while Quatronia is conquering Mavericks cities with cannons.

And unit maintenance is not a big expense for us:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0506.jpg

This game is going to be won by military. We should build units.

Edit: And to be clear, I am not suggesting that ALL cities switch over to building units. I am simply arguing that we should continue with building units while we develop our cities (thus my earlier argument that at least one city be dedicated to this at all times)

I haven't heard any response about what other teams are teching. I suggest we simply tell the ETTA that we are going to research Gunpowder > Chemistry > Steel, and that they tech towards Rifling (PP > RP). I can already see by espionage that Quat is teching Printing Press.

And I think offering Amazon a missionary to offset the culture from a library in Rigel is an excellent idea.

AlphaShard
Jan 28, 2011, 04:57 PM
It's never a bad idea to build units. City Maintenance was the highest at 63 and then Civic upkeep. Another reason perhaps for Sprial Minuret or even a Prophet for Shrine. I think Arcturus and Vega would be good cities to build some Mace from.

I'll tell you this though I am certain that CDZ will have plenty of Berserker's waiting to be Amphibious Riflemen.

Sol is our main Commerce site and should build monastaries/university/observatory/marketplaces.

Trystero
Jan 28, 2011, 05:38 PM
I'd forgotten we don't have a shrine yet. The Spiral Minaret (extra commerce) or Angkor Wat (run priests for fastest GP) would be good: Double production speed with stone, and don't expire until Computers.

BLubmuz
Jan 28, 2011, 05:51 PM
I'm still around, lurking the thread.

Please don't be attracted by "shiny bright things" like WWonders. They can be useful, but the SM, like Sankore, needs lots of religious buildings to be useful, BTW. I think we have 2 or 3 ATM.

A Shrine will help a lot, but we need a GPro for it.

I see our REX will be soon completed. :goodjob:
Please remember we need about 1.2 workers per city, mainly with all that jungle to clear.

A good "shiny bright thing" can be the HS. We have marble.

Do we have decided where to build the NE?

Trystero
Jan 28, 2011, 06:00 PM
I'm not too attracted by shiny things at the moment. I've argued there are better uses for our hammers. Mostly just thinking of ways to get a Great Prophet faster. Running a priest (from a temple) in the NE city might be the best solution. I'm not sure where we'd build NE. I presume Sirius might be a good choice. We really don't have a GP farm at the moment. Especially since we aren't running many (or any?) specialists.

Trystero
Jan 28, 2011, 06:03 PM
BTW BLubmuz: Congrats on the laurels in SGOTM12! We didn't do as well, but I learned a lot and had fun.

Edit: The problem with HS is that it obsoletes with Steam Power. That is probably the tech we will want to pursue after Steel/Rifling, so we can build dikes.

AlphaShard
Jan 28, 2011, 06:37 PM
I'm not too attracted by shiny things at the moment. I've argued there are better uses for our hammers. Mostly just thinking of ways to get a Great Prophet faster. Running a priest (from a temple) in the NE city might be the best solution. I'm not sure where we'd build NE. I presume Sirius might be a good choice. We really don't have a GP farm at the moment. Especially since we aren't running many (or any?) specialists.

I'd like to second that motion as well I'm not wanting it for just the sake of it. I rather go for a wonder that will give us money then building a Wonder that will be obsolete with a tech that gives us our Unique Building. I think we would get more use out of SM or UoS then HS. I don't bother with HS even in solo games, just build more workers.

HUSch
Jan 29, 2011, 04:28 AM
From Spiral we got nothing like Sankore, we need for gain religious buildings.
You can count our temples, I think we 've none and there was/is no reason to build them.
Monasteries: 1 or 2; how long til science
Cathedrals no chance to build now.

Hagia is expensive and gain only if you build it the first moment and real good (Imo), if you play marathon in SP.

Because of our splitting land Liberty and 3GW is also not my favorite.

Mausi would be good, if we build also Taj, we get 2 GAs at most from Specialists I think. Til Eiffel or ... I see no good wonder for us.

Specialist can be our problem (longtime), so the reason for building wonder may be getting the GPs.

BLubmuz
Jan 29, 2011, 09:01 AM
Too late to build wonders to seek GPeople.
The cost of building a WW to have a GPro for a Shrine will hardly be compensated at this stage of the game. If we can hire a priest where we have (or we build) a Temple and then the NE we can have more chances.

Agreed about HS, too late. Also Liberty (unless in the spokes) or 3GD are not worth. But i hope to finish before the 3GD comes in play.

Trystero
Jan 29, 2011, 10:58 AM
Agreed - I think it's better to run a priest for the Great Prophet (shrine). I also agree that few wonders will be worth the hammer expense.

BLub: take a look at the game when you get a chance and see where you think NE should go. I think Arcturus should get Ironworks when we get to that point.

AlphaShard
Jan 29, 2011, 11:04 AM
I did play a bit of this turn, I whipped the Observatory out in Rigel. I put a Missionary in at Arcturus, and an University for Sirius. I moved two of the workers on Bode to hills for mining, finished the Plantation at Altair and began a new road for that city and one for the future Capella. Still have a free worker on Anjen and Sol.

I noticed a sign for watermill by Rigel, now is this for the commerce and hammer bonus? I rather a workshop or cottage there.

Trystero
Jan 29, 2011, 11:11 AM
I'll take a closer look at our cities this turn to see if I have any suggestions. My only recommendation at the moment (see the Amazon diplomacy thread) is that we switch research to Gunpowder.

AlphaShard
Jan 29, 2011, 11:22 AM
I think Gunpowder is a good idea as well. We should see if we can get the other teams to research Steam power and Guilds.

HUSch
Jan 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
Gunpowder is best, but before we go at this, ask the other, perhaps Ama or CDZ research it.
For us is also the way to steam important, so PP is a good shot.

Alpha
you are right watermill is neither fish nor beef. The sign is a proposal, what I thought will be good. Change it, if you see better improvement.

Actually look at the change of working in Beta Cent, like my plan with 12 :food: work at both mines.

Trystero
Jan 29, 2011, 12:54 PM
According our espionage, Quatronia is already teching Printing Press. Hopefully we can get the other teams to commit to actually putting commerce into research.

AlphaShard
Jan 29, 2011, 12:57 PM
Hey I got an idea let's steal Guilds from Mav's, they got it from Mer.

To steal tech we need at least 1,900+ points. We could binary Espionage for about 3 to 4 turns to do that but then we could just tech Guilds in 3 turns also with binary.

Trystero
Jan 29, 2011, 01:15 PM
Aren't Amazon researching Guilds? Are we that desperate for Guilds that we need to spend commerce to steal it?

AlphaShard
Jan 29, 2011, 01:29 PM
Aren't Amazon researching Guilds? Are we that desperate for Guilds that we need to spend commerce to steal it?

I don't know what Amazon is researching and no were not desperate enough for it. I just thought it would be a quick and easy and it's neither. Our Spy was captured so we'd have to make a new one and we'd have to devote a lot of commerce to it.

HUSch
Jan 30, 2011, 09:04 AM
Ama/the ally is a dead lock.
There are 2 possibilities
1. we play so on in the fog of our ally, we lost too many turns in waiting for our allies to come with infos or techs, or infos about their situation about techs

2. we play our own and forget the ally

I want to build Taj, so I want marble back.

Trystero
Jan 31, 2011, 01:53 AM
I looked at the game after the next turn came up. The observatory is done in Rigel. I wasn't sure what was next (library?!), so I set it to a courthouse for now (not a bad idea, I think...). I did not do anything else (I was looking at our research options).

I am in agreement about building Taj, but we should plan so that we can make the necessary civics changes in the GA. We can tell the ETTA that we are building it. Who has the marble?

As far as the the poor diplomacy/research from the alliance: I am in complete agreement that if, after we actively try to get the alliance to work better together, things don't improve, it isn't of much use to us. But we must at least try first.

I honestly have been trying to figure out how Amazon thinks keeping a 4 team alliance together through Rifling/Cannons/etc is going to help them win the game (BLubmuz has made the point before). Maybe there is some gigantic backstab coming (another reason I think we should build more units). This i my first MP game, so I am not really sure. The only thing I can think to do at the moment is to try to be in the best position possible after Mavericks and Merlot are eliminated, and then see where we go from there.

AlphaShard
Jan 31, 2011, 04:08 AM
Amazon has Marble, first they built or should have built HE and last they said they were doing Versallies. We agreed to helping them with HE but not Versallies.

HUSch
Jan 31, 2011, 04:44 AM
We should say we need the marble for Taj and can ask how long they need it, 1 or 2 turns is not the great difference. Our advantage from GA is bigger if later (more citizens if we don't whip to much).

Trystero
Ama has no value from eliminating Mer/Mav. They 've their gain and build their empire.
CDZ and Quat has their own agenda to win the game, we should also make a plan.

There is the difference in civs (in future)
Ama is persian and had they uu, the ub is not so bad, but also not good
CDZ is viking, they 've their uu now, the advantage from the ub is allways good: navi-1 promotion.
Quat is Carthag, they had no advantage of their uu, they get allways the additional TW from their ub, and because they are crea, they get cheaper promotion
We 've now a great advantage from the uu and when we get to our ub, and don't lost we should win automatically. Look at the map and our towns and reckon the advantage, there is no possibility 1 other can win again us. We must prepare not to go to chem without quick to steam, because with chem we lost our maritime advantage (frigates are better than EI), all (our allies) 've then the same best military units.

That above know all, you also, it's not my secret. So if we think about our future, that's the hard facts

AlphaShard
Jan 31, 2011, 04:57 AM
Frigates don't carry units so how are they better? They are the defensive ships we need to escort EI.

The problem with CDZ units is that their Amphibous will carry over through upgrading them to Rifleman. The Persian UU is obsolete now that we have pike and about to get Knights.

HUSch
Jan 31, 2011, 07:18 AM
Imo
Now we are the master of sea, with frigates and higher units we aren't, that was my statement, Naturally CDZ can attack with galleons (nav1) and we must look behind, but til frigates they wouldn't make such an attack (alone, without Ama). But they can, question: have we a NAP or not? The turn without NAP is the turn when they can say "good day". In German DGs there is a rule: "No sureness in treaties". Here I think the most 'll hold on pacts.
Imo: DGs are other than normal MPs, because if you are known to break pacts, nobody 'll make one with you, teams 've no history or future only during the game. There is no penalty for breaking.

But the reason for my statement (above) is, that Imo we 'll be better in the future (from Civ), the other not. They had or have now the most advantage from their civs. It was a big advantage that we came without difficulty to EIs (as one if not the leading team).

AlphaShard
Jan 31, 2011, 10:38 AM
I don't think we have a NAP at all with CDZ or Quat.

BLubmuz
Jan 31, 2011, 10:41 AM
We do not have any agreement with the other members of the ETT but the Amazon.

If they want attack, they can do it in any moment. The only reason keeping them from do it is probably that they hope to have better use of us as techers and that they are afraid to be dogpiled by the other members. No more.

No infringements of pacts, no lost of "honor". Just convenience.

That's why i pressed to REX quickly (too slow, to my taste in any case).

We need our cities with at least a forge and a library and many tiles to work, all our cities for when the Dykes come in play. Otherwise they are useless, or almost...

About Frigates. It's another good point for our UU: a frigate is not sure to sink an EI as it would be with a normal Galleon.

AlphaShard
Jan 31, 2011, 10:48 AM
Well as of this turn Bode will be fully settled, unless you want to settle some of those Anjen spots were done for now.

I will say that I do not like that Merlot/Mav have gotten Guilds and are about to get Gunpowder. Because that looks like THEY are in the lead now. Which honestly looks pathetic when we are a Four Civ team with more cities then Mav and Merlot.

BLubmuz
Jan 31, 2011, 03:51 PM
No, i think we're done with the REX. Next city will not be settled by us :evil:

Wait! M&M don't have Astro, nor DR (for what is worth) nor Nationalism, maybe not even Philo. They Oracled MC and this was a big advantage. But i agree, we should have done better. I think we (the ETT) stopped researching for too long with a poor communication. So we gave away our advantage.

I can also think that this "poor communication" was due to the fact that other teams are thinking how to break the ETT. We gave away too many techs, losing our leadership.

Maybe now we can be less advanced, but our "friends" would be clearly behind us. Instead we took this ETT and now we don't know how to freed us.

HUSch
Feb 01, 2011, 03:12 AM
was due to the fact that other teams are thinking how to break the ETTIt was not only other teams.

I would like to discuss our situation.

We 've lost the opportunity to conquer Mav for a long time. Please don't think about a new plan/adventure to remidy this failure. For what do we need the Mav-isle; more land isn't automatically better. Additional a war/combats with Mav would give Quat more gain then us or want we the mav's spore, we 've the north side of it cultural. As I posted above we are in a good situation.
We 've an isle and 1.5 spore, that is the same as Ama and CDZ and more than the other 3. With the other fellow-lodger (at Anjen) we 've a good relation, that is more (in our opinion) than CDZ has with Quat.

Trystero
Feb 01, 2011, 08:00 PM
AlphaShard: since I sent the message to the ETTA, I switched our research to Constitution, and moved the research slider up to 100%.

HUSch
Feb 02, 2011, 12:43 PM
This turn
I 've looked and made some mm; in BC: my plan says we should work both mines and work at clam after building granary is best.

Why are 2 EIs in the west? One is enough, the other should be between Sirius- Achenar and Bode to ferry units there. We 've a worker at Anjen without good working.
The jungle at Procyon should be chopped, Procyon should build a worker after growing this turn to help there. The highland at Bode should only be roaded we don't need mines there now.
The both worker at Procyon build the cottage now best, after they go at different tiles best to road.

AlphaShard
Feb 02, 2011, 02:01 PM
One was transporting the Settler with troops, the other was guarding the WB.

HUSch
Feb 03, 2011, 12:49 PM
I looked at the game and moved some units.

There is a situation I don't understand!
Quat has come with 4 Gallons? can somebody understand it. Can Quat think to conquer anything at mav or is this against us?


There are also the question. what should the worker do at Atair, next turn we get the cukt exp there so we see the jungle road at Mavs. The worker can go East and build a road (ready next turn and then the fort or anything other, If they go east not without at least the mace, I don't think a Mav-knight waits at the jungle tile for this move to catch them.

We 've 7-8 hours left to move them.

BLubmuz
Feb 03, 2011, 02:39 PM
I looked at the game and moved some units.

There is a situation I don't understand!
Quat has come with 4 Gallons? can somebody understand it. Can Quat think to conquer anything at mav or is this against us?Let's ask them! Some Diplomat around?
For the worker, i think it's time to road and build that fort. Forts need a lot of time to be built.

AlphaShard
Feb 03, 2011, 04:24 PM
They certainly appear to think they CAN fight. I hope they burn a few more cities.

I agree those two workers were building Road and then that fort once the Culture pops.

BLubmuz
Feb 03, 2011, 05:34 PM
I agree those two workers were building Road and then that fort once the Culture pops.You don't need your culture to build a fort. Just to use it as a canal or an airfield.

AlphaShard
Feb 03, 2011, 07:12 PM
I know I meant by the time that the road was done that the culture would pop.

Trystero
Feb 03, 2011, 07:22 PM
We can ask Quat what they are doing, if you like, but I don't really believe they are going to attack us.

I looked at the game. Where are we going to build Taj Mahal? Does Amazon have the marble? Should we tell them we are going to cancel the deal? (Edit: I see AlphaShard got the marble back. And we are going to build MoM first? Sounds reasonable)

Also, Quat will finish PP in 3 turns (I checked). I also gave Nationalism to Quatronia and Amazon. We really need to remember to distribute techs when we research them. We would want them to do the same.

HUSch
Feb 04, 2011, 11:28 AM
Quats Gallons are near Copper, like they want to attack. If we knowed this in advance, we could make a try against Spot. So without knowing we have no chance for this (land at the cost and goes in 4 turns til the town). With our culture and EsP we see the ivory-tiles.
The research of pp coincided with our of constitution.

btw
Mav can't build knights, they 've iron at isle and horses at spore.

AlphaShard
Feb 04, 2011, 11:46 AM
btw
Mav can't build knights, they 've iron at isle and horses at spore.

God damn you mean were actually doing something right?! You just made my day!

HUSch
Feb 05, 2011, 11:35 AM
Alpha
Am I a nail to your coffin (a german proverb), that is not my reason for posting.

Perhaps you look at mariner next time and say me what should the cara do there, if Mav want they can leave their town.


What is the new spy doing?

Btw
What is happend with our spy at Mavs isle; I haven't see when we lost him. also there is no message in the log or I couldn't find it.

HUSch
Feb 05, 2011, 11:39 AM
I could write to them and say we noticed their galleons and ask if they need any information about the dispensation of Mavericks forces, since we have a lot of espionage against them.

I would prefer this. but be careful about "them", they could be pissed because we 've a lot of EsP against them.


btw
I don't like the idea to discuss in 2 freds simultan.

AlphaShard
Feb 05, 2011, 12:07 PM
I have heard that proverb but I am not sure your using it the way we use it.

I reported when the spy got captured about 2-3 turns ago. I think I just listed in this thread and forgot to add it in the Turn Tracker thread.

I know the Gally can leave there town, just didn't have anything better for Mariner to do. Mariner also has 4movement to Galley 3 so there will be no out runing her.

I gather someone had an idea to use it on the Mav spoke city's? Maybe incite revolt at Spot B to help us quickly destroy it.

AlphaShard
Feb 05, 2011, 04:15 PM
Now that I have thought for awhile I do have an idea for Mariner to do, we have plenty of EI to take over ferrying responsibility's. We could finish off exploring that ice coast to make sure there isn't some "passage". I know it's a long shot but it's something I might have done as map designer.

HUSch
Feb 07, 2011, 01:59 PM
I like this Idea for Mariner.

Trystero
Feb 07, 2011, 03:10 PM
Sounds good to me, as well. Might as well do some old-fashioned scouting at the same time.

HUSch
Feb 08, 2011, 12:53 PM
The mechanic of the forum is slow, so here my proposal without pic

I looked at the game, make some mm, mainly in Procyon and Beta C. (we should there work the next 2 turns clam and copper and in the growing turn clam and farm, together 3+3+5 :food:), and see we can't research constitution this turn (we 've 508, we need 520) without bad changes, so I vote for 0 research this turn and 1 the next with the uni in Sirius, it is enough then, perhaps we can make some EsP against also CDZ (the balance is 113/45).

I 've marked a tile in the center of Mavs spore for the spy and we see at Quat/CDZ spore a barb town, perhaps a HA can visit there, looking or more?
Another idea: a visit at the ivory with some units. perhaps Spot B also? We 've in few turns the 4. EI there, 2 could ferry some units to the ruins and go then there, after our spy has reached the point, we see then the whole. Lands there cost nothing we can see then the next turns what Mav is doing.
We should say our idea to Quat, perhaps we can coordinate.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=282117&stc=1&d=1297194424


Another problem I see is Anjen.
Ama has low culture there and they do nothing for culture, with christianity as state -religion they get nothing from a missio (for konfu) from us and with Theo they can't build them self. We should say, in 4 turns we get a cult exp in Achenar and they 'll lost 2 tiles at Kongo, additional I want to build there bibs and unis for Oxford, Rigel and Achenar are commerce or later hybrid towns. We should say it to them and hear what they are thinking about. We build an uni in Betei with fewer commerce now.



Next turn we begin with mausi/Taj in Sirus; that is the plan or what?

AlphaShard
Feb 08, 2011, 04:33 PM
At your suggestion Husch I tried some switching of tiles in Vega, Arcturus and Procyon and managed to get Constitution to 1 turn, though the Harbor comes out in 2 turns @ Pro instead.

Now I think we do need to send some spys into Mav spoke and here's why:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=282145&stc=1&d=1297207639

Shouldn't that culture not be there? Does this mean that the Poison City survived?

They can still build monstaries and temples in the city we put Confu in. Though if they have Christianity they should already be building temples and monastarys. I agree we should tell them that we are going to be building library and uni in Rigel soon.

I believe we didn't want to pollute the GP of Sirius so Canopus will get MoM and one of the bode cities Taj, probably Arcturus I think.

EDIT: Nevermind fixed Procyon to get it's harbor in 1 and still got Constitution at 1 as well. :)