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Irgy
Mar 27, 2011, 04:21 PM
Beauro-Theo for me. OR has high upkeep and we won't be making the most of it because we're at the mostly-units end of the game, I think. Beaurocracy should be giving us an excellent commerce capital when we finally get around to building Oxford in it.

AlphaShard
Mar 27, 2011, 04:30 PM
Are we going to be able to handle Eman? The last time someone pulled that on me I had +8 :mad: people in my cities from that civic. It was such a pain and difficulty to manage. I feel like were entering a real passive aggressive phase with Amazon now.

As for the forces I still think we need 1-2 more EI to transport our troops to Mav island.

AlphaShard
Mar 27, 2011, 05:44 PM
Here's the message cleaned up a bit I think:

Greetings Quatronia,

Soon comes the time to finish Maverick’s fate, with just there Island left to conquer soon our two armies will converge and deliver the Mavericks into oblivion. However we wish to coordinate the conquest of the last Maverick cities, to reduce losses and avoid city capture conflicts. We wish to avoid the mistakes of the past and make a glorious future destroying the foul Mavericks.

We wish to discuss which cities to conquer; Injinya with the Pyramids is a useful city. We wanted you to take that city for yourselves attacking from the south, while we come in from the north and take the Iron and Gold cities.
What do our comrades the Quatronia think?

Sincerely Sirian

Irgy
Mar 27, 2011, 06:55 PM
Did you mean to post that in the diplo thread? Not that it matters. Looks good to me Husch+AlphaShard. Maybe should be phrased so that it sounds more like we're doing them a favour giving them Injinya rather than giving them what we want. How about this (after "which cities to conquer;"):

We were considering holding back on taking the Pyramids city Injinya, in exchange for your letting us take our time to conquer Iron city and Gold city.

AlphaShard
Mar 27, 2011, 06:57 PM
Yes that looks good Irgy, you can send it with those changes if you want. :)

Alltriia
Mar 27, 2011, 07:27 PM
I feel like were entering a real passive aggressive phase with Amazon now.Since they started to settle on Anjennida, for me.


I'm against coordinating with Q. Diplomaticly, we're nowhere with Amazons and CDZ still haven't replyed. We're like the ugly duckling.
Not the best judjement, but we better start to build up our military SERIOUSLY and go for a conquest victory.

We have been the best asset for the ETTT and we put our hearts out in it while others pile up money to upgrade.

Am I getting too paranoid?

BLubmuz
Mar 28, 2011, 03:49 AM
We have been the best asset for the ETTT and we put our hearts out in it while others pile up money to upgrade.

Am I getting too paranoid?You posted what i said since months. (3 at least)

BLubmuz
Mar 28, 2011, 03:51 AM
Yes that looks good Irgy, you can send it with those changes if you want. :)Yes, please do so Irgy, with the variant you proposed.

If they answer, OK, otherwise i'd like to see their stack to dust by Mavs' cats.

HUSch
Mar 28, 2011, 09:32 AM
About Quat and the sit at Injinya.
We can allways go at Gold first. I don't think, that will be Quats first object, they 've a long way to it.

AlphaShard
Mar 28, 2011, 10:28 AM
Sounds like a plan. :goodjob:

Could someone take caps of this turn (1190)?

Trystero
Mar 28, 2011, 11:47 AM
Just make sure Quat is not coming for our cities. We still haven't heard back from CDZ, so who knows what they know.

AlphaShard
Mar 28, 2011, 11:53 AM
Yeah that would be a very bad thing.

BLubmuz
Mar 28, 2011, 02:44 PM
Just make sure Quat is not coming for our cities. We still haven't heard back from CDZ, so who knows what they know.It's a chance.

I thought this too, my opinions:
1. probabilities are low, but better wait they move the ships to land our units in the island
2. in case, the former Mavs cities are condemned to be conquered.
3. i doubt we can manage to keep at least one, much can depend if they unload all the units in a single tile. If so, we can probably concentrate on copper city all our units, mainly my beloved cannons and destroy them.
4. i noticed they have no siege. this is a bad thing for them, against Mavs or against us.

Let's keep frigates in range to fight theirs, then our EIs can fight with high chances their galleons.

Let's prepare for a massive diplo action, even if i think that would be the beginning of the final phase.

Alltriia
Mar 28, 2011, 04:11 PM
You posted what i said since months. (3 at least)Yes, but the situation changed very rapidly(even in this month).


Do we have plans for the catapult stack? There's no way Q will wipe it out with the army we can see.

BLubmuz
Mar 28, 2011, 05:02 PM
Yes, but the situation changed very rapidly(even in this month).Sure, but i foresight some, it's why i started speaking of break the ETT months ago. Now it's too late, IMO. In any case, it's not worth cry on spilt milk.

Do we have plans for the catapult stack? There's no way Q will wipe it out with the army we can see.Sure we have! Cannons!!! the right answer.

AlphaShard
Mar 28, 2011, 05:17 PM
The Cavs if we could time things right.

So how screwed do you guys think we are on the Amazon front? I had an idea today, not sure if it's really a good one or not. It just depends on how bad you guys think the Amazon relationship is going, if it's salvageable or if we just just say screw it and burn the bridge? My idea is for after we take out Mavericks, the Amazon/CDZ/Quat may still be dealing with Merlot. They even seem to need or at least demand our help with taking out Merlot. What should we do during this time?

I've contemplated if we should help the Merlot as they hang from a tuft of grass over a cliffs edge. If you guys really feel that Amazon will be dog piling us soon.

Irgy
Mar 28, 2011, 06:05 PM
I don't think it's reached that stage, I don't think it would help that much, and I'd like to point out that it's a direct breach of our treaty.

Alltriia
Mar 28, 2011, 06:19 PM
Sure, but i foresight some, it's why i started speaking of break the ETT months ago. Now it's too late, IMO.I don't think it is. We'll just have to find a way even if forcing it.
Sure we have! Cannons!!! the right answer.Since you're more into the BTS war aspect, can you explain why cannons are better than cavalry against catapults? I get much better results testing with cavalry against catapults than cannons agains catapults.

This is also why I think it was a mistake to talk with Q. It would be better to let them go first on their own. Now if they reply we need to tell them what they are up against...if they are really aiming the Mavericks, that is.

Irgy
Mar 28, 2011, 06:57 PM
Since you're more into the BTS war aspect, can you explain why cannons are better than cavalry against catapults? I get much better results testing with cavalry against catapults than cannons agains catapults.

It's not that cannons are better against catapults than cavalry, it's that a large stack of catapults (followed by conventional unit support) is better against cavalry than it is against cannons. This is because cavalry, like most things, are vulnerable to collateral damage, while cannons are not.

It matters more how their units do against ours than how ours do against theirs because we have to land our units and give them the initiative.

This is also why I think it was a mistake to talk with Q. It would be better to let them go first on their own. Now if they reply we need to tell them what they are up against...if they are really aiming the Mavericks, that is.

Why do we need to tell them what they're up against in either case? Do they know that we know what's in the middle of Mavericks island? I don't recall telling them that.

AlphaShard
Mar 28, 2011, 07:38 PM
Well new turn is up and we have decisions to make!

Just a note on Emancipation we already have a +2 :mad: from it in Sirius, I predict this is going to be a major pain in the @$$.

My vote for civics is this:

Universal suffrage: I believe we will get more out of it then in Rep. we can use gold for Hammer production, we'd also get alot of hammers from our towns of which we have alot of on Sol island.

( I am fine however with staying on Representation, I'd rather stay there then loose out on the other civic changes)

Free Speech: I know we shouldn't antagonize them but now they've gone and selected Emancipation, however there is a +2 commerce for all towns, again of which we have alot of.

Emancipation: Believe me when I say that I'm fine with staying on Slavery, we haven't been doing specialist economy at all. However I do not want to suffer the :mad:, I've had experience with that and it is NOT fun seriously, it's easier to deal with whip :mad: then emancipation :mad:. Plus we get faster growing cottages so we'll add to our cottage economy when we take Mav island.

Free Market, I think all agree on this one.

Finally to make Husch happy I pick Theology.

I put in Sci Meth as a place holder but I think Irgy had a good idea about getting it to 1 turn away (were at 2 right now).

We got a new EI, dubbed it Normandy (someone can change it if they really want to).

Sommersword put in an immediate request for Economics, gave it them as we should. I loaded the GM on Ironside.

I'm not sure which is quicker loading the cannons on Normandy or Ironside. I think Normandy can get them on bode by 1210.

Also I did some checking Husch and if you click the culture button over the mini map when zoomed out there is still Maverick culture points around our newly captured cities. It will remain active until we push it out or Mavericks die, which ever comes first. Which is probably why the port area is blocked off, we haven't pushed it out enough yet.

Trystero
Mar 28, 2011, 07:48 PM
Well new turn is up and we have decisions to make!

Just a note on Emancipation we already have a +2 :mad: from it in Sirius, I predict this is going to be a major pain in the @$$.

Who the heck is running Emancipation?

Edit: Free Speech? We are building military. I thought we agreed to running Vassalage.

Irgy
Mar 28, 2011, 07:49 PM
Well new turn is up and we have decisions to make!

Just a note on Emancipation we already have a +2 :mad: from it in Sirius, I predict this is going to be a major pain in the @$$.

...

Emancipation: Believe me when I say that I'm fine with staying on Slavery, we haven't been doing specialist economy at all. However I do not want to suffer the :mad:, I've had experience with that and it is NOT fun seriously, it's easier to deal with whip :mad: then emancipation :mad:. Plus we get faster growing cottages so we'll add to our cottage economy when we take Mav island.

If other people are using Emancipation already we're going to have to. The good thing is that it'll really stick it to M&M, as well as everyone on the ETTT who doesn't particularly want to chave civics. We shouldn't need the whip at this stage of the game, excess food should just mean more specialists. Caste System was good for workshops, but personally I hate workshops anyway. I don't think it's worth the unhappiness (and the missed opportunity to annoy everyone else).

With Emancipation but not Caste System, it's maybe a good time to replace some workships with cottages ;)

Universal suffrage: I believe we will get more out of it then in Rep. we can use gold for Hammer production, we'd also get alot of hammers from our towns of which we have alot of on Sol island.

I agree - if we're running a lot of cottages like we should be, this should be a better choice.

Free Speech: I know we shouldn't antagonize them but now they've gone and selected Emancipation, however there is a +2 commerce for all towns, again of which we have alot of.

Once we build Oxford, Beaurocracy should still be a better civic for research, and won't antagonise our neighbours. I don't think we should write off relations with Amazon just yet. I'm going to start probing for their thoughts on the post ETTT shakeout. If I can't get a clear answer out of them then we should start to worry.

Free Market, I think all agree on this one.

Finally to make Husch happy I pick Theology.

I agree with these.

I put in Sci Meth as a place holder but I think Irgy had a good idea about getting it to 1 turn away (were at 2 right now).

No, just finish it, then start on either Physics or Communism (I'd prefer Physics). The plan to leave it unfinished is obsolete now, as Amazon are no longer building the ToA nor requesting we avoid Scientific Method.

AlphaShard
Mar 28, 2011, 08:16 PM
@Trystero: I believe it was Husch that said Amazon was running it and without a word of warning either.

Alright in the spirit of trying to heal relationship with Amazon no free speech. I would rather have Bearu then vassalage.

BLubmuz
Mar 29, 2011, 03:12 AM
When we were informed that a member of the ETT was researching Democracy, i proposed to send a message to the whole ETT asking to put some rule on the use of Emancipation.
Then i raised back the argument once it came online.

This is the result of have done nothing, or maybe nothing would have changed.

My proposal for civics:

Bureaucracy, Emancipation, FM, Theocracy for sure
I'm undecided between Repr and US.
US can be good if we stop the research often, otherwise i can't see a great use. Also, with our production capabilities i do not see much sense in rush-buy, at least in our core cities.
Cottages? i don't think we have much of them, just some in our home island.
IF we build new ones before they mature, even with Emanc, it's game over.

Repr can be good if we manage to run some more specialist and for the extra happiness.

Vassalage is totally useless. With Theo we already have 5XP for any unit, what you do with 7?

Irgy
Mar 29, 2011, 05:32 AM
US can be good if we stop the research often, otherwise i can't see a great use. Also, with our production capabilities i do not see much sense in rush-buy, at least in our core cities.
Cottages? i don't think we have much of them, just some in our home island.
IF we build new ones before they mature, even with Emanc, it's game over.

Universal Sufferage is for the hammer from towns more than the rush buy, although rush buy has its niche uses even if we're focusing on research. I'm more than happy to run Representation though as long as we actually plan on running some specialists.

Vassalage is totally useless. With Theo we already have 5XP for any unit, what you do with 7?

It's a choice between Beaurocracy and Organised Religion really. Theo and Vassalge are interchangeable and as you say there's not much profit in having both.

BLubmuz
Mar 29, 2011, 07:23 AM
Universal Sufferage is for the hammer from towns more than the rush buy, although rush buy has its niche uses even if we're focusing on research. I'm more than happy to run Representation though as long as we actually plan on running some specialists.As i said, i'm not decided on the choice. We're running few specialists to have a clear benefit from Repr, aside the happiness in our biggest cities, which we do not need. So maybe US is the right choice.

It's a choice between Beaurocracy and Organised Religion really. Theo and Vassalge are interchangeable and as you say there's not much profit in having both.Roughly same reasoning as for Theo/Vassal. With our production capabilities our core cities do not need that bonus, mainly if we consider they already have all the basic structures and that we're building units.

Bureau is surely good mainly for research, but it's expensive. Nationhood can be a good choice see the wars we're goin' to fight.

HUSch
Mar 29, 2011, 07:33 AM
If we take eman we need US, for quick building. But I wouldn't take eman, we 've enough luck and there is no real need for quick growing of cottages. We need monastries or Orga for missios; monas before we research scimeth.

Alpha
Why the hurrying with the GM and the giving of econ also?

btw
I don't think Quat 'll attack us now. They win not enough if they are doing this.


btw
Can everybody make a statement about the civics he want. Please without any details.

my vote
Rep, Vassal, slav, FM, orga

AlphaShard
Mar 29, 2011, 08:04 AM
1) They asked for the tech in game, meaning the diplo screen, Were in an ETT we can't really say NO can we now?

2) Sure we can delay the GM if you want but Id like to keep from being dogpiled as long as possible, so there's not much point in delaying it.

3) Seriously have you played a game where someone changed to Eman and you weren't in it? It's NOT easy to manage. We do have more cottages to grow btw in Comet.

my vote:

US, Buearu, Eman, FM, Theo.

BLubmuz
Mar 29, 2011, 11:12 AM
as requested:

US, Bureau, Eman, FM, Theo.

actually i'm on the border between US and Repr, no doubts on the others.

Alltriia
Mar 29, 2011, 03:15 PM
Why Bureaucracy? Doesn't Nationhood or Free Speech gives more benefits? If we wore the Maverics(with one capital and two more cities), I would understand.

AlphaShard
Mar 29, 2011, 05:41 PM
I think we need to make the change soon. I think we just need a choice post from Alltriia, Trystero and Irgy. :)

Trystero
Mar 29, 2011, 06:00 PM
My vote:

US, Bureaucracy or FS (not sure which is better), Eman, FM, Theo.

BLubmuz
Mar 29, 2011, 06:04 PM
Why Bureaucracy? Doesn't Nationhood or Free Speech gives more benefits? If we wore the Maverics(with one capital and two more cities), I would understand.I considered Nationhood too, but we probably do not need the draft with our production capabilities. So, despite the high maintenance, Bureau it's better, i think.

@Alpha
I think Irgy shares my choices, but better if he confirm.

My vote:

US, Bureaucracy or FS (not sure which is better), Eman, FM, Theo.FS can couple well with US, but we can hurt Ama, so i think it's better wait next GAge (remember we have a GS ready, so i think right after Physics) when the ETT and the NAP are gone.

AlphaShard
Mar 29, 2011, 06:19 PM
Yeah I just want confirmation so theres no misunderstanding.

Alltriia
Mar 29, 2011, 06:24 PM
Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market and Theology.

Do drafted units come into play with the experience bonous, too?

EDIT:
I better explain myself.
US for the town hammers and ability to rush.
FS to make a passive stand against Amazon culture expansion plus the extra town commerce.
FM is a no-brainer.
Theo for the extra XP for units and negation of religion bonous to other civs from our cities.

EDIT2: We better start building cottages on Comet and spread Confusionism there, too.

AlphaShard
Mar 29, 2011, 06:53 PM
@Alltriia: We have a worker on Comet already starting on Cottages. :goodjob:

I've never drafted units so I don't know but I would hope that they did. But then if you don't train them they technically wouldn't since they were drafted but then sometimes realism is dropped for gameplay reasons.

So far the voting looks like this:

Alltriia: Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Emancipation, Free Market and Theology.
Trystero: US, Bureaucracy or FS (not sure which is better), Eman, FM, Theo.
Irgy: US, Bureau, Eman, FM, Theo
Bulbmuz: US , Burea, Eman, FM, Theo
Husch: Rep, Vassal, slav, FM, orga
Me: US, Bureau, Eman, FM, Theo

So five for US, 3 solid votes for Bureau and a "half vote", 5 for Eman, 6 for FM, and 5 for Theo looks like we will be doing:

Universal Sufferage, Bureaucracy, Eman, FM and Theo.

I'll wait for Irgy to confirm his vote and we can change. :)

Alltriia
Mar 29, 2011, 07:10 PM
So, as Bode is sort-of improved, let's pull a couple of workers to Comet.

Irgy
Mar 29, 2011, 07:39 PM
So five for US, 3 solid votes for Bureau and a "half vote", 5 for Eman, 6 for FM, and 5 for Theo looks like we will be doing:

Universal Sufferage, Bureaucracy, Eman, FM and Theo.

I'll wait for Irgy to confirm his vote and we can change. :)

Confirmed. Those are all my votes, so I'm happy.

AlphaShard
Mar 29, 2011, 08:08 PM
Okay civics have been changed to Teams vote of US, Bureau, Eman, FM and Theo.

We have two free workers Toch and Cluadius by Arcturus, however counting our cities (16) and our workers (14) were far below the 1.5 worker to every city count. So we need about ten more workers according to that count. Were getting Railroad in 14 turns and were going to need that on Bode, Sol as well as Comet and the conquered Mav island.

Irgy
Mar 29, 2011, 09:18 PM
We have two free workers Toch and Cluadius by Arcturus, however counting our cities (16) and our workers (14) were far below the 1.5 worker to every city count. So we need about ten more workers according to that count. Were getting Railroad in 14 turns and were going to need that on Bode, Sol as well as Comet and the conquered Mav island.

We're at the stage of the game where the 1.5 workers to cities rule-of-thumb no longer applies. It's more for the early stages while we're still settling. So I wouldn't be too worried about it for now.

BLubmuz
Mar 30, 2011, 03:32 AM
Do drafted units come into play with the experience bonous, too?Half of the normal, so with barracks and theo (5XP normally) they have 2 or 3Theo for the extra XP for units and negation of religion bonous to other civs from our cities.You negate nothing to anyone, only non-state religions can't spread. Of course if you capture a city this will retain its religion (s).

Obviously i agree we need to spread Confu to any city, at least for the happy bonus.
We need more monasteries, at least 2 more before SM. And in different areas. 1 in Anjennida, 1 on Bode.

HUSch
Mar 30, 2011, 04:33 AM
Ok
That is the team opinion
US, Bureau, eman, FM and Theo.
Low research rate at scimeth (we need then money to build something) and build some monas, one in Rigel now.
Before we change we (I) should look if we should whipp im some towns.

Hello
Please post bold if you do anything
That is crazy!

HUSch
Mar 30, 2011, 04:43 AM
Hello Alpha

Our military transport is more important than the GM, I 've thought the GM is going to BOde with our units, there is no reason for extra shipping. 5-10 turns Ama can wait .

btw
we need at least 8 cannons at first landing, the other units are non im portant

AlphaShard
Mar 30, 2011, 05:09 AM
5-10 turns? :eek: Wow you must really want to piss them off.

I actually calculated that the Cannons would have taken about the same time to arrive in bode going on either Normandy or Ironside.

Irgy
Mar 30, 2011, 05:25 AM
Yeah, making them wait an extra 5-10 turns is going to be interpreted by them as being petty, whether we meant it that way or not.

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 10:22 AM
Half of the normal, so with barracks and theo (5XP normally) they have 2 or 3.Then it's not that usefull. It's better to use Slavery instead.You negate nothing to anyone, only non-state religions can't spread. Of course if you capture a city this will retain its religion (s).Exactly. A foreign religion would not spread to our cities, therefore negating extra bonous to other civs if the religion would spread naturaly.

5-10 turns? :eek: Wow you must really want to piss them off.HAHA! Yeah, but after their stunt on Comet I also don't care if we piss Amazon off or not.

----------

I'm a bit conserned with Culture. I think that we shouldn't take our Creative trait for granted. The percentage of border tiles in Andromeda is worrying me. As the Amazon cities in Comet, too. Should we consider rushing a theather in Aldebaran, Alcor and Mizar? Also one in Altair to push SpotB and get a bit of slack on the center?

And what about banks? We have a bunch of cities that are outputting Commerce in a quantity that would greatly benefict having a bank in them.

Theaters and Banks at half cost, people.

Of course, this is to be addressed after the army raising as we're in a stage where we can't afford to do things halfway and then change the direction.

BLubmuz
Mar 30, 2011, 11:06 AM
Banks at half cost were only in Vanilla and i think the earlier versions.

About the culture war you're right. First libraries, more useful than theaters, then theaters. Those added to our CRE trait will surely make any culture war lost for Ama.

AlphaShard
Mar 30, 2011, 11:39 AM
Well there's lots of ways to win culture wars, not to mention just boosting the culture slider up. I already put culture buildings in the queue for Mizar at least. Amazon should already start feeling the press, they are going to be pressed hard until they get there own Culture stuff going, we got a big head start already.

I still think we need some more workers, maybe we don't have to go crazy getting them but a couple more would be good. Once we finish off Mavericks we can focus more on our infrastructure, maybe sent a token force to Merlot area.

I so badly want to make privateers *sigh* I know no one is going to back that idea though lol.

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 11:50 AM
You're right. I should have been looking at Civilopedia and not CivFanatic's reference.

But nothing changes. Theatres are less expensive than libraries and give higher culture(we're the best techer around and Comet still doesn't have any cotages to take advantage of libs yet).
And banks are a major boost to our commerce specialized cities.

Are markets also relevant with their 150 hammers with 25% gold? Every coin helps to shave maintenace. We're throwing 100G/turn away just by city maintenance. 300G/turn, total.

Other thing, should we do out research at 60% this turn?

Trystero
Mar 30, 2011, 12:03 PM
Yes - Financial doesn't give half price banks in BTS, but Creative does give us half price libraries. So I agree with BLubmuz: Libraries first in the captured cities for culture and research.

I also agree with Irgy that we have enough workers for now. If we find we need more, we can always build them later. Our production should stay focused on our military objectives.

Privateers? :crazyeye:

BLubmuz
Mar 30, 2011, 12:04 PM
Sure, Comet won't have many commerce tiles. But the cities have trade routes. So libraries are more useful than theaters. See, i just say "libraries first", not "no theaters".

About research, instead of slow-research SM, won't it be better research Corporations?
It gives +1 trade route on every city. And it's required for AL (Infantry+Factories ;)

Now, the time to break the ETT is arrived. What can we do?

I so badly want to make privateers *sigh* I know no one is going to back that idea though lol.when Frigates come in play, privateers are not so useful. But we can consider to build some.

AlphaShard
Mar 30, 2011, 12:36 PM
I know about the frigates, they pretty much end Privateer's ability. But I do love their blockading/pirating ability.

Course there's other applications as well, you mentioned breaking the ETT? No one will know for sure WHO built the Privateer. Just that it was someone in ETT.

I'm just trying to think of ways to break the ETT that don't get us dogpiled, though I am begining to think it's too late. No response from Quat or CDZ, the silence is deafening.

Though I do see one shred of contentious hope in Quat's response to CDZ doing RR.

Trystero
Mar 30, 2011, 12:46 PM
I think it would be easy enough for other teams to figure out who built the privateers by watching CivStats log-ins and privateer movement.

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 01:16 PM
See, i just say "libraries first", not "no theaters".I understood. I only think that theatres would be more usefull right now. Nevermind.

About research, instead of slow-research SM, won't it be better research Corporations?I'm for it.

Now, the time to break the ETT is arrived. What can we do?It's a long shot, but we can always send a message to the other members starting right away with a "The time as come to end the ETTT.".
We could try to point out that:

-There's no point having the ETTT around when on the modern era frontier.
-That the ETTT never was that usefull as Amazon had to go and steal a tech(steel, was't it?) from a poor rival.
-That nobody but us(we did it too, right? ;) ) teched with the ETTT in mind and piled gold instead of working for the ETTT efford.
-That the teching reduntancy that the ETTT was designed to avoid, happened 'constantly'( ;) ).

So, taking into account that all the rules on the treaty woren't followed, it has not the value of the bits it was written on, "...and therefore, as we're also allowed to break a rule in the treaty, we're leaving.". :)

What do you guys think?

We'll get digpiled, no matter what; nobody's talking to us and we're huge on commerce and production. Let's keep building units and get the Maveriks out of the game first.
The Amazons can't attack us untill 1500AD.
Q will go next and then CDZ.

EDIT: And I can totally see Merlot allying with the Amazons. :D

AlphaShard
Mar 30, 2011, 03:24 PM
Really? They kicked up alot of because the Merlot killed one of their Scouts, Dora I remember that. I'm actually counting on Amazon fighting Merlot to the bitter end. Or being busy with them while we get ready to take on Quat.

I think once Mav fall were going to have to put units in our cities that are near Amazon, Ajen and Comet specifically.

I do agree about leaving the ETT, I did when I saw that Mer/Mav had managed to tech parity us. I think our members of ETT have performed poorly and used us as a tech mule.

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 03:40 PM
Really? They kicked up alot of because the Merlot killed one of their Scouts, Dora I remember that.Pffft, drama.
Or being busy with them while we get ready to take on Quat.Yup.
I think once Mav fall were going to have to put units in our cities that are near Amazon, Ajen and Comet specifically.And promoted to Garison so that they won't start getting ideas. Also taking more care of the west and north capes.

BLubmuz
Mar 30, 2011, 06:30 PM
I do agree about leaving the ETT, I did when I saw that Mer/Mav had managed to tech parity us. I think our members of ETT have performed poorly and used us as a tech mule.It's what i'm saying since months (this phrase it's not new :lol:). I hope you mean the times of Guilds/GP, not now. The ETT is far ahead of the "Candy Axis" now. Or am i missing something?
And promoted to Garison so that they won't start getting ideas. Also taking more care of the west and north capes.Some can be promoted, but i usually prefere to let the units unpromoted, with the exception of naval and mounted (combat, usually).

Capes: what i said! we need more frigates to sink possible stacks of ships. And even more to cover our EIs and bombard.

No one will arrive to see our home island coasts. (if they manage it, we're toasted).

Irgy, can you please help us to go out this s**ty ETT with honor?

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 06:40 PM
I'm starting a thread for it, BLubmuz. Hang on a bit.

With Garison promotion because for them to become effective city garrison. If a unit is fully fortified, will promoting take them out of it?

AlphaShard
Mar 30, 2011, 07:06 PM
Upgrading yes, promoting no.

Alltriia
Mar 30, 2011, 07:09 PM
Upgrading yes, promoting no.OK.

Also new thread here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=417193).

EDIT: Is it wise to have Mizar on starvation this early? We can rush.

Irgy
Mar 31, 2011, 02:13 AM
Well, I agree with two things at this point:
* M&M are just about finished, and the time to end the ETTT at least in its current form is fast approaching.
* Being the current leader in most things, we're liable to be the one everyone wants to gang up on, and the current poor relationship with Amazon and complete lack of communication from CDZ and Quatronia suggest that this is a risk.

I don't see why everyone thinks it's so hard to get out of the ETTT. I think the fact that M&M are just about dead, and we have enough of a tech lead to finish them off, is all the reason we need. What's been hard about it in the past is that you had to argue with people like me who were of the opinion that ending it earlier was a bad idea. There's nothing in the treaty preventing us from leaving it, just say we're out and we're gone, no honor broken. So all this suggested busniess about pointing out to the other teams how inefficient and terrible the whole thing was is completely counterproductive. It just makes us look like arrogant pricks, who think the other teams are selfishly riding on our coattails and we hate them all. Maybe it's true, but someone explain the diplomatic benefit of pointing it out to the rest of the world?

There's just one technicality in the ASP that's a problem:
7.3. Both members agree to the terms of the Exclusive Tech-Trading Treaty (ETTT) and agree to remain members while both The ASP and The ETTT are in effect.
We need to clear this with Amazon.

So, on the whole, here's what I think we should do at this point. We still have a good 30 turns worth of not just NAP but ASP with Amazon. So, as long as we don't break the terms of it ourselves, we don't have to worry about them fighting with us.

So what's going to happen if we declare war on Quatronia in the near future? Well, Amazon are bound by the ASP to provide no assistance. CDZ, well we gave them a chance to help, I say we simply give them an ultimatum: Join in now or miss out. The worst case is they'll declare war on us. However, I'm of the opinion that we ought to be able to take both Quatronia and CDZ on ourselves at this stage. Just not the both of them and Amazon as well, if that happens we're screwed.

Amazon will be left with a choice:
1. Play mediator and sit on the sidelines while we gain a whole lot of extra territory.
2. Join us in wiping CDZ and Quatronia off the map.

If they pick #1, well, we have 30 turns to make the war a success for us before we have another team to deal with. But personally I think they'll know to go with #2.


In any case, there's a fairly important message that needs to be written to Amazon, and I'm going to work on it now that I've finished writing this.

BLubmuz
Mar 31, 2011, 12:32 PM
Let's forget the problems with the ETT for now, and let's go back to our war against Mavs.

Now, plans:
moved to new war thread

Research: i changed to Corporations. Yes, we gain 1 trade route per city, which is good. I propose to keep @0 for this turn, then @100 we need 3 turns to complete it.
By then (8 days, i think) we should have solved our Diplo problems, so, no danger we have to give it to the lousy ETT.

BTW, i suppose you noticed i finally have my PC up and runnig. Please let me move the units at the front.

Alltriia
Mar 31, 2011, 12:36 PM
I don't see why everyone thinks it's so hard to get out of the ETTT. I think the fact that M&M are just about dead, and we have enough of a tech lead to finish them off, is all the reason we need.There is clause 2.2: "A member may be removed by unanimous consent of all other current members.".
It's not that hard to read it as having the objective to negate a member to leave by his own, but a logic interpretation does give us a green light.There's nothing in the treaty preventing us from leaving it, just say we're out and we're gone, no honor broken. So all this suggested busniess about pointing out to the other teams how inefficient and terrible the whole thing was is completely counterproductive. It just makes us look like arrogant pricks, who think the other teams are selfishly riding on our coattails and we hate them all. Maybe it's true, but someone explain the diplomatic benefit of pointing it out to the rest of the world?To make it clean. Now that I've read you, probably some lines can be changed but I think all the reasons are solid. We did piled gold too, for example, but there was so much slacking on teching than us.There's just one technicality in the ASP that's a problem:7.3. Both members agree to the terms of the Exclusive Tech-Trading Treaty (ETTT) and agree to remain members while both The ASP and The ETTT are in effect. We need to clear this with Amazon.Yes, and I think clause 7.5 is also relevant(the last part): "to ensure that both ASP members are not on the outside of a major tech trading alliance."So, on the whole, here's what I think we should do at this point. We still have a good 30 turns worth of not just NAP but ASP with Amazon. So, as long as we don't break the terms of it ourselves, we don't have to worry about them fighting with us.
So what's going to happen if we declare war on Quatronia in the near future? Well, Amazon are bound by the ASP to provide no assistance.Unless they decide to support Q openly when we declare, making them in breach of the pact clause 2.4 and out of it. CDZ, well we gave them a chance to help, I say we simply give them an ultimatum: Join in now or miss out. The worst case is they'll declare war on us. However, I'm of the opinion that we ought to be able to take both Quatronia and CDZ on ourselves at this stage.I'm against another chance with CDZ. Read me at the end of this post.Just not the both of them and Amazon as well, if that happens we're screwed.

Amazon will be left with a choice:
1. Play mediator and sit on the sidelines while we gain a whole lot of extra territory.
2. Join us in wiping CDZ and Quatronia off the map.

If they pick #1, well, we have 30 turns to make the war a success for us before we have another team to deal with. But personally I think they'll know to go with #2.1-HA! Good luck with that! Playing the benevolent king-maker won't work anymore.
2-Now, will they go for it? It's a stretch. Even more so if our suspicions come to be true.
In any case, there's a fairly important message that needs to be written to Amazon, and I'm going to work on it now that I've finished writing this.I don't want to burden you, but if you consider to send an explanation to the ETTT, can you also check the text I've wrote on the other thread and clean it up a bit, please?

---------
I've noticed that we're slowing down our military production. Why? We should continue. There's no point in stopping or slowing just when we managed to get a couple of units on the board. If worried by maintenance, let's build some banks on the more commercial developed cities. It's poor strategy trying to build a solid army and empire infrastructure at the same time, IMO. We'll need those units sooner than later or atleast to deter Q and CDZ to declare on us.

EDIT: If Q is doing it with Mav in sight, they're shurely taking their time. In that case, we should forguet about it and invade when we are confident that we can indeed blitz the island.

AlphaShard
Mar 31, 2011, 02:14 PM
Slowing down? I put three frigates in que production. Not to mention I rushed a EI so now we have Five EI to use next turn to bring our forces to bear.

I did put in an Uni at one city so we can get the Oxford requirement done, other then that we still have military units in other cities.

The GM is on Anjen now, he can move to Amazon territory at any time.

Alltriia
Mar 31, 2011, 02:41 PM
Well, there doesn't appear to be much significance from prior turns, altho I got that feeling when checking the production column in the domestic advisor window.

175 - 6
176 - 7
177 - 8
178 - 5
179 - 6
180 - 6

Question, did we burned any GP into a Golden Age?

EDIT: Typo.

BLubmuz
Mar 31, 2011, 03:10 PM
Altria, not clear what your numbers represent.

In any case, we need a monastery in Bode and Alpha did well to build the last Uni required for OU.

Also, we must keep our stone when we're ready to start it.

Comments on my war plan?

AlphaShard
Mar 31, 2011, 03:40 PM
@Al: We didn't burn any GP into Golden Age no. We had MoM built.

I will have to check in game but I know one city is building a Mace, another a Cav and there were cannons in production as well. I think those numbers register completed builds and not things currently being built. Next turn should see a happy addition of several military units.

Also Bulb don't forget we will have five EI to use next turn not just four. :) See? Didn't I tell you that US will be useful?

Should we do a War Plan thread?

BLubmuz
Mar 31, 2011, 04:19 PM
Should we do a War Plan thread?Yeah, US is better than slavery, with so many good tiles to work.
I think we must make an effort and close Corporations in 4 turns, then we must pile some 2.000 gold for any evenience and consider those as our zero cash.

I poen a new thread for war now, so we can focus on that. I prophezise :lol: it will became crowded.

Alltriia
Mar 31, 2011, 04:43 PM
Altria, not clear what your numbers represent.Turn and number of military units being built.

@Al: We didn't burn any GP into Golden Age no. We had MoM built.Ah, cool. It meens that we can use only one GP for another GA. We have one GS in Sirius or is it on hold for something? We could fire it up after leaving the ETTT.I will have to check in game but I know one city is building a Mace, another a Cav and there were cannons in production as well. I think those numbers register completed builds and not things currently being built. Next turn should see a happy addition of several military units.Those figures wore taken from the domestic advisery window, production column(only military units).
Don't worry, I just got the impression we wore slowing down.

EDIT: I just remembered something. What if Amazon is building culture right off the bat in the new cities in Comet?

AlphaShard
Apr 01, 2011, 11:07 AM
They are probably building culture or their own theaters at least.

Also checked in game and Quat are producing Cannons now, as well as Spiral Minuret. Oh they've been building them since before 1190 AD, please check turn tracker thread.

Wanna cancel stone? :devil:

BLubmuz
Apr 01, 2011, 12:17 PM
1) They are probably building culture or their own theaters at least.
2) Also checked in game and Quat are producing Cannons now, as well as Spiral Minuret. Oh they've been building them since before 1190 AD, please check turn tracker thread.

3) Wanna cancel stone? :devil:1) it's lost fight for them.
2) please some numbers, you now where to search
3) No, absolutely. Let them build it for us :evil:

AlphaShard
Apr 01, 2011, 12:45 PM
Well I provided pics in the Turn tracker thread of two Cannons being built and another being loaded on the ships. Oh I just checked in game and they have a Cannon sitting on there Quat/CDZ spoke for some reason.

So that's two built, one a ship and one on there spoke. Two being built. I can't tell how many turns since they are in anarchy for this turn.

Yeah I like letting other civs built wonders for me as well.

BLubmuz
Apr 02, 2011, 01:59 PM
I talk about military moves in the war plans thread.

Accordingly to what the Admins suggest, i moved the workers too. 1 is in skip, to arrive at the future fort tile next turn. 2 are on the unconnected incense (that tile was at the end of their moves). Road next turn, then join to build the new fort.
I moved also some worker on forest or jungle tiles.

In future we need a worker in our home island, to build some roads on the hills, ready to build railroads.

I dropped the research slider to 70%, Corps will still arrive in 2. Then we MUST pile some gold for upgrades and rush buy.

Before Corps are online, we need to clarify the ETT situation, so we have dome 5 days from now.

I'd like also to settle a city on Anjennida point. I see it on the East coast, 1N of where is indicated a "filler city". There it can have clams, oasis and 2 PHs. I value those more than the whale, since it needs production. I think we can mine one and windmill the other, or windmill both. With RP a windmill is a good improvement, more with Elec, mainly being financial.

Alltriia
Apr 02, 2011, 02:21 PM
I'll go for another city at the point. Not only to have another city adding to the empire output, but also as a lookout point and an invasion ramp.
But I'm starting to wonder if all this maintenance isn't hinder us more than it's necessary.

AlphaShard
Apr 02, 2011, 02:34 PM
We are aiming to take over another home island soon so that should compensate, I think were doing well Financially, probably the best in the game to be honest.

HUSch
Apr 03, 2011, 06:37 AM
Hello
I'm back and the sit is good.

Some questions
Why do we build rifles instead maces or XBs? We 've enough money for upgrade. I 've changed the job.

btw we need cannons only for counter the attack of cats.

Another
with war our wb could be at Aldaran,

HUSch
Apr 03, 2011, 10:29 AM
Another idea/proposal
We are in US, why don't we buy the needed buildings at Comet, like theatre and lib and other towns. Then we can work at food tiles and grow?

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 11:51 AM
Another idea/proposal
We are in US, why don't we buy the needed buildings at Comet, like theatre and lib and other towns. Then we can work at food tiles and grow?

That's the very reason I wanted US to do exactly that.

Alltriia
Apr 03, 2011, 12:53 PM
Welcome back, HUSch.

Indeed, Cavalry can't get the City Raider promotion, too. Only through Maceman.

But there isn't gold for all. Or we build cheap maceman and upgrade or rush buildings.

Who is "Scottish"? According to CivStats he/she logged in and finished our turn.

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 01:20 PM
That was me, forgot to change the name back.

HUSch
Apr 03, 2011, 02:31 PM
All
You mean rifle, ok
We need attacker or defender, attacker are maces and defender XBs, both can we buildcheaper then rifle and upgrade to them.

Btw
we need money now for possible upgrade or buy buildings.

Alpha
Have you buy some buildings now?

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 02:33 PM
All

Alpha
Have you buy some buildings now?

No I did that two turns ago for the Titan EI and a Forge.

However I did want to rush buy the buildings in Comet to speed up our culture buildings.

BLubmuz
Apr 03, 2011, 02:51 PM
No I did that two turns ago for the Titan EI and a Forge.

However I did want to rush buy the buildings in Comet to speed up our culture buildings.I' not sure this is a good idea. Rush buy building where we have a discount will waste our ability. better rush buy a granary and a forge and build the hard way libraries and theaters.

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 02:52 PM
New turn, Cav Scout logged in, now there are three Galleon's SW of Inijya, they have not landed or attacked as of yet.

I settled the WB on the clams at Alderberan.

BLubmuz
Apr 03, 2011, 03:02 PM
I settled the WB on the clams at Alderberan.So you declared on Mavs? I left the WB there waiting for the EIs to be ready to invade. I'd prefer to let them confused by our non-declaration.

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 03:04 PM
I thought the plan was to attack this turn? Or land at the flagged tile on the island.

BLubmuz
Apr 03, 2011, 03:36 PM
I thought the plan was to attack this turn? Or land at the flagged tile on the island.You missed or overlooked my post on the War plans thread. I simulated the situation in WB and decided we need more cannons. so we have to wait until the EI from Beta C. is ready.

Alltriia
Apr 03, 2011, 03:50 PM
New turn, Cav Scout logged in, now there are three Galleon's SW of Inijya, they have not landed or attacked as of yet.That we know of. We don't have visibility on the tile 1NW of their Galleons.

AlphaShard
Apr 03, 2011, 03:58 PM
I don't think they are going to do much until someone attacks or lands.

@Alltirra, yes there could be more galleon's hidden in the fog, there's four Quat galleons unaccounted for.

Alltriia
Apr 04, 2011, 11:59 AM
Alpha: Wore the units SW of Anijya, Frigates or Galleons? There's three Frigates now and the city's defence is down. The Galleons might be on their way.

Trystero
Apr 04, 2011, 12:22 PM
Just to let you know that I am here following the threads, but I am not logging in at the moment since I think we have enough people logging in already (I trust BLubmuz's judgment on military matters).

If any critical decisions come up, can someone post a screenshot of the relevant situation? Thanks!

:popcorn:

BLubmuz
Apr 04, 2011, 12:23 PM
I just logged to make my moves. The 3 frigates are still near ininja. The galleons should be near the point now and should be visible next turn.

So, next turn i load the new EI, D-Day the following one.

HUSch
Apr 04, 2011, 12:42 PM
I'm in concord with Alpha for declaring war.
The buying of theatre and lib cost much, at best to buy is the forge or granary before.

The question, when we land at Gold isn't important.
I think our frigate should go to Gold and bomb there, we lost nothing then.

The 3 frigates are still near ininja.
Blub you think to want Injinya, why?

Tryst
You want sit in the first row? nice position :)

Trystero
Apr 04, 2011, 01:05 PM
Blub you think to want Injinya, why?

To be honest I don't think it matters which city we try for. Mavericks are likely to use all their units to keep the city. Once the first city on their home island falls, it is essentially game over. I would try for the capital. The attraction of Injinya was the Pyramids, but that time has long passed. Also, Quat will have a hard time defending any city they take on Mavs island, since they will have to get through our navy first.

Tryst
You want sit in the first row? nice position :)

Sure, this way I can't take the blame when everything goes wrong. :lol:

AlphaShard
Apr 04, 2011, 01:59 PM
I didn't buy a library or Theatre, only proposed it. I DID buy a forge however, so I'm glad you approve of that.

What Mavericks are going to be shocked and surprised that we delcared? They already have a ton of stacks in there cities, the time for surprise is LONG passed, trust me.

BLubmuz
Apr 04, 2011, 02:28 PM
I think our frigate should go to Gold and bomb there, we lost nothing then.already done, sir :pBlub you think to want Injinya, why?The 3 frigates i mentioned are Quats. our only one in the area (5 turns for the first one to arrive) has just finished softenig Gold city (52%) the plan is to land 1S of Gold city with 12 cannons, 4 cavs, 8 rifles in 2 turns. That stack should be invincible even if they throw at it all the units they have.
In 2 turns or maybe even in 1, the Quat stack should land: i estimated 15 units, about half-mixed between rifles and muskets. I hope they land 1 turn before us (but i will wait if i see them) to be smashed by 16 cats.

BTW Gold city is of better value now, with the HG there we gain +1:health: in all our cities. Not to mention the rice, not present in any ally territory.

np about the declaration, Alpha. it was just a chance of confuse them, but surely it's not a key point. They would be confused enough to not see any unit land. They can't imagine what is waiting :evil:

All you guys, please remember to defy the AP resolution if you find the vote when you log in.

AlphaShard
Apr 04, 2011, 03:41 PM
All you guys, please remember to defy the AP resolution if you find the vote when you log in.


I did, and when it failed I noted that Quat had once again merely said "no". So I think had they defied last time as well it would have failed then. So long as one member defy's it the motion doesn't pass.

Quat seem to have this "not learning from our mistakes" thing going for them. *sigh*

Trystero
Apr 04, 2011, 04:01 PM
It doesn't matter if both us and Quat vote no. Neither of us has enough cities in the AP religion to make any difference (I think). If we defy the resolution we are not bound by it regardless of whether it passes or not, and we suffer the happiness penalty regardless. So it really doesn't matter what Quat does if we defy the resolution.

HUSch
Apr 04, 2011, 04:11 PM
Blub
Sry for reading wrong :)
I don't think we get a bonus from HG other than the GP,
I think Mav/Slaze can compute what kind of units we 've, he sees the dikes => knows we 've steam.

I looked at the game and changed some working tiles: between Achenar and Rigel, rigel build now frigs in 1 turn. Also in Altair and Sirius.

I would change the job in Sirius, we don't need additional frigs. I think we want to build Oxford there, so custom H would be better, brings at least +4 :commerce: with corp.

Another question: where do we want ironworks?

AlphaShard
Apr 04, 2011, 04:54 PM
I would think in our highest Hammer city.

Don't we need more frigates for the future? blocking off areas of entry? I'm planing for the next war as much as this one. Also the Uni's weren't done yet.

BLubmuz
Apr 04, 2011, 05:08 PM
Maybe Mavs can see the dikes, maybe they have enough EP points to see our cities.
The nice thing is that they can't do nothing to stop us.

We need a lot of frigates, to have them where they are needed. reminder:
- the point N of Rigel (where i'd like to have a city, BTW)
- the point W of Mizar
- some more to escort our EIs (thinking to Quat)

But the OU in Sirius is an absolute priority.

I never build Custom Houses, they do not worth the hammers, unless you play as Portugal.

About the AP resolution, if only one player defies it, it won't pass. So i suspect someone misclicked.
Speking of game mechanics, i'm not sure if the penalty applies if the resolution do not obtain the majority. But this is not our case, Mavs can have the majority easily, probably one city is enough.

Irgy
Apr 04, 2011, 09:03 PM
Only one defiance is needed, maybe Quatronia hoped we'd take the happiness hit for them by voting "no" and hoping we'd choose "never". And yes I'm pretty sure you don't get unhappiness if it wouldn't have passed anyway, but I've never actually checked.

HUSch
Apr 05, 2011, 12:52 PM
Sry
Is there a next Apo-vote? Or are you discuss the last one?

I hope our player 'd be say never allways. The penalty isn't really bad for us.

Blub
its important for the best town to get the most from TWs, custom is a little like Artemis.

I would think in our highest Hammer city.
I think its not so easy
Iron is NW, so we must decide, where we set it;
Sirius get Oxford
Canopus has Moai
Arcturus has HE

get we a prophet for Shrine, then we build it and Wall-Street in Canopus, so no iron there.
Westpoint in Arcturus together with HE, so no iron there.
So Sirius is the town for iron or not? If yes, we should build it quick, there is no reason to wait.

Don't we need more frigates for the future? blocking off areas of entry? I'm planing for the next war as much as this one. Also the Uni's weren't done yet.
If we needn't them now, anything else is better.

HUSch
Apr 05, 2011, 12:57 PM
Maybe Mavs can see the dikes (yes), maybe they have enough EP points to see our cities.(no)
The nice thing is that they can't do nothing to stop us. (yes)

We need a lot of frigates, to have them where they are needed. reminder:
- the point N of Rigel (where i'd like to have a city, BTW) (Imo thats Ama, btw we don't need it)
- the point W of Mizar
- some more to escort our EIs (thinking to Quat) (When, what is your time schedule?)

But the OU in Sirius is an absolute priority. (yes)

My remarks

AlphaShard
Apr 05, 2011, 01:48 PM
I was thinking of putting IW in either Vega or Arcturus, however there is only Great Library with plans of Oxford next, so there's still a National wonder to build there in Sirius, but again I was thinking of a different city then Sirius anyways.

Unless you can only do 1 National wonder per city on this setting, usually on Marathon yu can do two.

We were talking about the previous Apo proposal that I defied, so now we get to do WAR! Also it was your suggestion Husch to get the WB settled by declaring war.

As far as Frigates go I wanted to consider worst case scenario, that we get dogpiled by all three of the remaining teams. We already have a Frigate at the Anjen Spire so I guess we leave it there for now.

Actually Canopus, Arcturus, and Sirius can build IW.

Why would we build Wall street in Canopus? It's base commerce is like 40 and Rigel is 70, Rigel has the potential to get us alot more money then Canopus, Canopus also has better hammer production.

Sirius base hammer is 30
Arcturus is 37
Canopus is 36
Vega is 38
Alphas Centauri is 32

Seems like Vega might be the better choice, though we have several good choices to choose from.

BLubmuz
Apr 05, 2011, 04:09 PM
Some answers:

Anjennida point
We're safe from Ama until 1500 AD, after it who knows? But also CDZ can use that route, they are closer to arrive to our homeland from theirs using that path.

IW
Basically i discard the Capital, because it already have a good production thanks to
Bureau.
IMO we must choose a good production city with potential for running 2-3 Eng specialists, so we can hope fro a GE. Maybe we can even build the NE there.

West Point
As i already said, it costs a lot. IMO it's not worth the hammers to have +4 XP in a single city. Please compare the hammers you invest in WP with the units you can produce in the same time.

Quat war
We haven't discussed this matter yet, but better start.
I propose to start it just after we destroy Mavs. Time to heal and positioning troops and we're ready.

BLubmuz
Apr 05, 2011, 04:48 PM
The new turn is just begun, so i logged.
I was the first, so no news of Quat galleons, still in the fog.
Corporations is done, i resumed SM @0%. we need to accumulate some gold.

Anyone knows what Ama is researching?
I've put some buildings as placeholders, but i find a monastery in Vega useful for missionaries.
Set Rigel to build the settler for the point city.

I loaded the 6th EI with 3 cannons and 1 rifle, it has no movement to arrive on the coast. So we can wait to see what Quat is doing. Landing next turn, with one of the most powerful stacks i ever used.

I noticed a unimproved banana. It's not in any BFC, but is a resource we lack.

I started garrisoning the fort and moving units accordingly.

AlphaShard
Apr 05, 2011, 06:24 PM
How are we lacking the banana? One of the should have been ours and I know the other went to Amazon but because our culture took it now no one uses it.

Also we can build the OU now because the uni got done last turn.

BLubmuz
Apr 06, 2011, 03:31 AM
Maybe i overlooked an already improved banana in our territory.

Of course i started the OU in Sirius, it's due in 6, i've changed the tiles to have max prod.

HUSch
Apr 06, 2011, 04:08 AM
The Banana is Amas, its in their proposed territory.

What is the spot at Anjen, is this our spot really?

For IW if you want there NE also, we can build it at Vega or Proc.


Alpha
you can allways build 2 nat-wonders in town only (except 1-City-game naturally).

AlphaShard
Apr 06, 2011, 05:30 AM
Were talking about the Whale city on Anjen Husch, the one Amazon doesn't seem to really want. Clearly they could have settled it long ago.

Procyon is another good choice for IW, I was surprised at how much hammers they are producing as base.

BTW we got a new message from Amazon.

Irgy
Apr 06, 2011, 07:31 AM
The whale city is assigned to us not Amazon. They don't want it only in the sense that they've never shown much interest in swapping it for anything else. I think we should have settled it earlier, whether it's worth doing now is not so clear.

AlphaShard
Apr 06, 2011, 07:42 AM
I think it is worth settling for not just spawn busting reasons but for Domination as well. It's not a horrible city spot as some of the others. With mining and sushi corps it can be a decent city.

BLubmuz
Apr 06, 2011, 10:56 AM
I think it is worth settling for not just spawn busting reasons but for Domination as well. It's not a horrible city spot as some of the others. With mining and sushi corps it can be a decent city.I proposed to settle it 1N of the sign "filler city", so it loses whales but gains a hill. With both hills windmilled it can be a decent city.
For Dom purposes it changes nothing.

BLubmuz
Apr 06, 2011, 01:37 PM
I logged to see what Quat are doing.
They landed 16 rifles and 2 cannons on the hill formerly known as "Omaha Beach".
In range of the 16 cats and of all the units in Ininja and Gold City.

I think they will be slaughtered immediately.
Mavs probably don't know the actual size of our invasion force, so they can think to be safe for awhile.

If they launch all they have on Quat we can destroy them easily. Once the big cats' stack is gone, it will be a parkwalk. And also Quat will be in bad shape.

Go on, Mavs!

Alltriia
Apr 06, 2011, 01:40 PM
Wait, isn't it 17 and 3? The rest of the units are mentioned in parentesis, right?

BLubmuz
Apr 06, 2011, 02:07 PM
Answer in the war plans thread.

Now, about the Monastery: we need more, we now have only 2 in different landmasses.

Please let complete the one in Procyon. hands off!

HUSch
Apr 06, 2011, 02:44 PM
Wait, isn't it 17 and 3? The rest of the units are mentioned in parentesis, right?

They 've gallons, also should the number be = 3 times n. I see 6 gallons and 2 cannons, I didn't count the rifles.

HUSch
Apr 06, 2011, 02:57 PM
A shame on me, I thought allways the lands end at Anjen was for Ama.

Now they settle at Comets lands end.

Another
Why should AC build a frig without drydock (that is bad), better if not mil-unit is a research building. I canged the working tiles their the mine wasn't worked.

If we want quick another frig, we should pay the uni in Achenar and then build there a frig.
Also I would pay the forges we build, if not this turn (not enough money, there should be > 50 or 100), then the next.


btw
CDZ goes last turn to eman and US

Irgy
Apr 06, 2011, 04:38 PM
I logged to see what Quat are doing.
They landed 16 rifles and 2 cannons on the hill formerly known as "Omaha Beach".
In range of the 16 cats and of all the units in Ininja and Gold City.

I think they will be slaughtered immediately.
Mavs probably don't know the actual size of our invasion force, so they can think to be safe for awhile.

If they launch all they have on Quat we can destroy them easily. Once the big cats' stack is gone, it will be a parkwalk. And also Quat will be in bad shape.

Go on, Mavs!

This sounds like excellent news. Lets hope it works out that way. Mavs aren't exactly going to just sit and take it though are they? So I can't imagine it going any other way.

Quatronia and their lack of communication leaves me with no sympathy for their plight whatsoever.

AlphaShard
Apr 06, 2011, 04:52 PM
Agreed, so they can cry us a river if we clean up after their mess and take all three cities.

Alltriia
Apr 06, 2011, 06:06 PM
I agree.

HUSch
Apr 07, 2011, 07:31 AM
Mav has whipped Injinya auf pop 1 and all units have left.
What is Quat doing next turn? I think all Mav units 've at least 5 XP for promotion and will then attack the town, additional the both GG in the middle.

BLubmuz
Apr 07, 2011, 04:46 PM
I was foolin' around and saw a new turn has begun. So i logged and i placed some buildings as placeholders.
I also noticed that many cities have problems of health, so i queued some grocer here and there. Grocers are good because they solve health problems and they boost our treasury when we run @0% science.

No diplo screens, no news. I plan to log tomorrow after i see Quat has moved. I need your comments/support on my decision to wait one more turn to land.

Trystero
Apr 07, 2011, 05:15 PM
I agree with waiting.

I took a look at the situation. Why not move our ships away (1 or 2 tiles) from Mavs coast, so they don't think we are going to land this turn? This would make them more likely to go after Quat, I think.

AlphaShard
Apr 07, 2011, 06:26 PM
Moving away sounds like a good idea then, it ensure's that mavericks destroy the Quat forces first.

BLubmuz
Apr 07, 2011, 06:38 PM
I gave a detailed answer in the war thread.
Looking at the screenie i took this morning, the best i can do is move one EI where the frigate is, to have enough moves next turn to unload it and then move to the ferry point. And move the other to join the 2 near Aldebaran.
So Mavs will see only 2 EIs and the frigate near their coasts.

AlphaShard
Apr 07, 2011, 11:36 PM
Quat have taken Injinya and have moved there frigates over to Gold city.

Also Amazon has not given over Economy to CDZ/Quat

HUSch
Apr 08, 2011, 09:16 AM
Blub
Our ships are named, so they see the diffrence, also see they all their cultural and frontier tiles, so all our ships there, perhaps Ald also. The generally sit is nice to see.

I looked at the game
We 've moved a EI with troops to the south, ok
2 forges are paid, I changed the work tiles to food there, with building forge the overlay 'll be reduced. Why 've 2 new ships (frig and EI) * proms? 6 XP is best for navi 1 imo. But if not this then wait. What is the sense in building a worker at Achenar, a court is better or perhaps grocer/market or a EI, because we can grow then.

The settler from Rigel is for the end spot, goes he at land or should ferried, in both cases where/who is the guard?

BLubmuz
Apr 08, 2011, 09:58 AM
The sense of the worker is that we need it for the new city and for our home isle.

I removed all the signs, some were very old and i put a new one on the city site i've choosen. If you not agree with my choice we can discuss.

Ships:
not clear what you mean with We 've moved a EI with troops to the south, okAbout promos, for EIs i see C1+M1, for frigates C1+C2. Also one, maybe two can have flank+navi1

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 03:49 AM
CivStat says
mav has won Injinya back. The Quat army is destroyed. :cry: or/and :)

BLubmuz
Apr 10, 2011, 07:55 AM
Next turn the settler will be ready.
I deleted all the old signs from the map and marked my preferred spot.
I sent the worker to road the hill in the path.

If you disagree with my proposal, please comment. I consider my choice better than the point since it has more production.

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 01:24 PM
Next turn the settler will be ready.
I deleted all the old signs from the map and marked my preferred spot.
I sent the worker to road the hill in the path.

If you disagree with my proposal, please comment. I consider my choice better than the point since it has more production.
Blub
you are general and there you can do, what you are seeing right, but at home, please post before you are doing something. There is no need for quick decisions, perhaps there are wrong or not wanted from the team-members.

Why did you break the lumber-building of the worker? You win 0.00x with a road there.
The second question is, want we found a city at Amas side of Anjen? Can we do it and wish we? The worker move was nonsense.

A town there brings nothing in defense and controll of the marine-moving at the spot of Anjen. I read in the post about the towns that were the reason.

For the more production, please compute it. You are wrong. With dike has
your spot 8 water, 2 plain-mines, city-tile 17 :hammers:
the spot 12 water, 1 plain-mine, city-tile + whale 18 :hammers:
The growing/food sit is at the spot also better.

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 01:50 PM
I don't un derstand the worker action at Comet.
What is the reason with chopping the jungle there? (Already the road was over my understanding, because we 've a better ferry-transport.)
Has anybody posted here an idea with it. First there would be builded cottages (we don't need now) at north of Ald, because there is no reason for water-canal or what? The forest at south of Ald can be chopped with good reason, there is no for letting them perhaps for Amas town. But we build worker at achenar instead of ships, because our worker make ... there.
Can we coordinate this better?

AlphaShard
Apr 10, 2011, 01:57 PM
I believe we had at least four workers making the Fort for Comet spoke. I didn't assign that may to that task.

I think the Comet spoke is good for commerce, I think each city should be able to at least make some money over the upkeep it has. We'll probably build some Workshops to help with production as well. We really do need some more workers for this spoke, there's just so much work to be done here and I don't think were done with Bode yet either, close though.

A worker is being built at Archenar because it's the closet city to Rigel. We should have it continue to build ships after the worker is done. I think same with Rigel would be good.

I can't get int the game so I don't know which jungle your referring to.

We really need a micro plan again the workers.

Could you clarify which spot is spot 8 and which is spot 12?

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 02:48 PM
At Anjen for the new town at spot, there is a long time no need for worker, if we found at Blubs tile, perhaps. But a wb is most important if we take the spot-tile then we need 2. Other tiles there need a worker in long time for RR.

The chopping of jungle for what, build cottages? The road from Altair to Ald is 13 tiles, for what. So long we 've good relations to Ama we don't need it, in war with them there is no raod anymore, if they want. So the working there this isn't very good idea.

BLubmuz
Apr 10, 2011, 03:02 PM
The worker you show in your screenie is needed to road the path to the new city, wherever it is.
The whales without dike, so for many turns, is just 1H and we must build the WB, probably in Rigel. It has +1F compared to 2 windmills (with LH+Whaling boats).

It's why i asked to discuss the matter. The 2 spots are almost equivalent, probably the point is weaker if you mine instead of windmill the hill.

Production: 2H for whales+dike + 5 for mine+RR =7
3H*2=6 for the 2 hills.

Commerce-wise, whales or a flat sea tile+2 windmills are the same.

Then, if there can be problems with Ama for this choice, let's go straight to the point.
But remember that city, in both cases, will be just land for domination/fogbusting for a long time. Don't expect it to be productive.

Then, the workers.

I considered the fort a priority and there's not much more to do in Bode. The fort is in the path to Comet and some worker is already there.

Another point is that when i asked the Admins about a possible 3-ways war, they told me that any unit, even workers on the other side of the world must be moved in the first frame of the turn. This won't make much sense, but that's it.

In the second frame we can change plot assignments in the cities, change production, whip, do anything does not involves movements.

BTW, i'm here 'cause something went wrong, so i restart my tests tomorrow morning.

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 03:12 PM
I 've looked ingame and made some changes in worktiles at AC.

Beta C
we could change w-Tiles but it's not good, there is optimum :hammers: and the building is with good number, no overlay costs to see, after growing we can get the rivermine from AC.

Hadar
here is allways overlay costs, so we can next turn change mine to water to grow then. With only 4 water and TWs not enough commerce, so court (then a cheap lib or not) then units.

Capella grows in 2 turns, then we should work 2 farms for oasis and the new pop to get 12 netto :hammers:.

Aldebaran
Can get the forest chop in3 turns (and should get it), the theatre is ready in 3 and with the chop gain the lib in the turn after.

Alcor
with finish the granary now we work 3 turns horse/clam then change horse to farm (the change alone gives +4 :food:). Forge is good, but I would build a lh first, now the 3 turns and pay then 43*3 in the growing turn.

Mirza
Our goal is build a lib quick, so we grow with (change w-tiles farm to marple) + 4 food, then we work a ws with the new pop and in at least a 2. ws, to build the lib in 4 turns. (I 've changed the wtiles)

Altair
has 12 netto :hammers: with dike and RR, but at least >~35 :commerce:, so commerce is better than prod, so lib is better than barracks (I 've changed).

For the tp(s), there is no reason to move worker in the first rush. We 've at least 1 day for discussion.

HUSch
Apr 10, 2011, 03:28 PM
Blub the road at the hill is only with sense, if we found at your spot, if not the road is senseless.
All wbs 'll be build with drydocks, any other idea is the same.

My main reason for the town not there, is our relation with Ama. Want we/you the next war with them, then say it. The town there is an attack town against them, for what? For few turns better prod. I don't know, but we had a contract with them about Anjen and we 've paid with the marple for that (costs some prod at HE); I haven't read in the Ama-disc-fred anything about a change in our wishs/relation.

And then comes your idea and you move according this, without any post here. And we need no road to the new town a long time. What want you move in this region? It would be better if an EI would be near Rigel to take the settler to the spot tile.

BLubmuz
Apr 10, 2011, 04:35 PM
Blub the road at the hill is only with sense, if we found at your spot, if not the road is senseless.
All wbs 'll be build with drydocks, any other idea is the same.

My main reason for the town not there, is our relation with Ama. Want we/you the next war with them, then say it. The town there is an attack town against them, for what? For few turns better prod. I don't know, but we had a contract with them about Anjen and we 've paid with the marple for that (costs some prod at HE); I haven't read in the Ama-disc-fred anything about a change in our wishs/relation.

And then comes your idea and you move according this, without any post here. And we need no road to the new town a long time. What want you move in this region? It would be better if an EI would be near Rigel to take the settler to the spot tile.First off, i posted about my idea several days ago. If you overlooked ir or just forget it now, it's not my fault.

Then a road is needed if we are in need to move troops quickly, so even if the city will go on the point the best road path is hill > hill > oasis. Roads on the hills will make for the initial lost turn in movement, since roads/RR on desert cost more.

As i said, my spot is better short-term, the point is better long-term, but both are weak and the differencies are very small.
Then, if you add potential problems with Ama, let's go to the point and close this matter.

AlphaShard
Apr 10, 2011, 06:21 PM
Well I'm just glad all the Mav Cats are gone, so :goodjob: Bulbmuz.

I think the Bode spoke was largely a production one so I think Comet should be more commerce, however I have no probs balancing Comet with production and commerce.

Trystero
Apr 11, 2011, 02:12 AM
CivStat says
mav has won Injinya back. The Quat army is destroyed. :cry: or/and :)

:lol:

It's nice to see the first part of the plan seemed to go well. Let's hope Quat managed to take enough Mav forces with them.

Good luck with your computer upgrades BLubmuz.

AlphaShard
Apr 11, 2011, 05:14 AM
Amazon had a score decrease three times in a row, how is that possible outside of whipping?

Amazon requested Corps so I had to give it to them, they still haven't given Econ to CDZ or Quat.

HUSch
Apr 11, 2011, 06:06 AM
Amazon had a score decrease three times in a row, how is that possible outside of whipping?

Amazon requested Corps so I had to give it to them, they still haven't given Econ to CDZ or Quat.

Ama has nation, so they can recruit (rifles I think)

Blub
There is a few turns before we 've RR, so there is
1. no need to build a road anywhere
2. We need our worker at our towns, not chop jungle
3. There was no need to decide quick, what you 've done.

That I didn't read about a change of founding-tile makes no difference, you moved the worker like you are playing alone.
Now we are allways in our fram and could move units, so I think you also would 've time to let us discuss and decide. We don't need roads, but we need the lumber, the worker was building.

I say it again, there is no need for moving the units at first possibility.

btw
What is the reason for moving 2 EIs (Excal and Nob) in south direction and what is our Spy doing? Is there an action at Mavs isle planned or not? If not the spy should go in any other direction.

HUSch
Apr 11, 2011, 06:21 AM
Blub
Roads at dessert and other tiles cost 2 worker-turns.
At oasis is no better than dessert, because oasis are dessert, additional at oasis you lost your mp you 've normally by building R/RR.


Alpha
Mav has 2 cats at Gold, but the main troop has sacrificed (for our god/goal). :D


btw
Have we send condolence to Quat, should we? Rubbing salt in their wound.

AlphaShard
Apr 11, 2011, 08:47 AM
Yeah rub in the fact that they really should have responded to us. Hopefully we can now conquer and finish off Mav once and for all.

AlphaShard
Apr 12, 2011, 05:09 AM
Well it looks like we have a good turn out for there attack on us, I logged in took screen caps and we have a good army still left. I think we can manage to take there cities next turn and maybe destroy them completely by 1270. I think we've only lost one rifleman and it was to there General Bellsarius. I don't know why they feel protecting their iron is more important then there cities.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287381&stc=1&d=1302602898

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287382&stc=1&d=1302602898

AlphaShard
Apr 12, 2011, 08:15 AM
I believe the new turn is up, does Bulbmuz need someone else to play the turn (as far as the war is concerned, we can discuss the worker moves seperatly) to attack Gold City this turn? Should we sent units to capture Iron and Injinya as well?

HUSch
Apr 12, 2011, 08:22 AM
We lost the marple and some othe rtiles to Ama, the forest south of Ald is our, but we 've lower percentage (23: 24) than Ama there.

AlphaShard
Apr 12, 2011, 08:54 AM
So I guess we need to cancel the marble deal then if there culture now gives them 2.

Irgy
Apr 12, 2011, 06:07 PM
So I guess we need to cancel the marble deal then if there culture now gives them 2.

Is the tile improved yet though? Wait until then at least.

AlphaShard
Apr 12, 2011, 06:10 PM
Is the tile improved yet though? Wait until then at least.

It's been improved every since we captured the city.

Trystero
Apr 12, 2011, 06:20 PM
Are we going to use the marble? If not, I don't see the need to cancel the deal immediately.

HUSch
Apr 13, 2011, 08:16 AM
We need more culture there. They (Ama) are in caste and merka and 've so +4 :culture: there. So we need our religion and the theat and lib quick.

btw
That nobody comes to the idea makes the road at center to RR for Ama. The best would be we would destroy it, but that isn't possible or not?


Where are the settler ging, is there an answer?

Blub
How many units you think would be needed for a war against Quat and what should 2 EI can doing in the south?

Another question, what is the give to Ama, that they permit our cav there?

After consolidation at Mavs isle, perhaps we get it whole, than we need no other territory, and we can go destroy not conquer.

For building units etc I would go out of eman. Its a crazy civic.

AlphaShard
Apr 13, 2011, 10:36 AM
Eman is a crazy civic but we have no choice, at least we can benefit from Cottage growth which is why I think we should be building them in Comet spoke.

Settler is going north until we've decided exactly which spot to settle NO ONE has posted there spot suggestions like I asked. Just general directions, I want to see something more specific with signs.

Well it looks like CDZ is building road at the center, I think we could destroy it but then that would look suspicous don't you think? Roads and RR can be a double edged sword which is why we put forts up.

I like conquering the planet, too many civs I've seen always seem to have some settlers ready, look at amazon they threw FOUR settlers into Comet and we had JUST conquered it. Your better off conquering everything so that you know you have all the land and no one is sneaking in a city.

Oh and I just remembered we should beline to whatever has Submarines so we can get the Circumanavigation bounus, the Sub is the only thing that can travel under ice.

Would it be viable to use Ironclad ships to defend our coasts? We need something to fight those Quat Frigates.

Though looking at it it only has 2 movement, I don't know if that's very effective, even Ship of the line has 3 movement. A Frigate would be able to out tun both ships.

Alltriia
Apr 13, 2011, 09:37 PM
We can rush:
The theatre in Aldebaran for 90G(2 turns otherwise)
The lighthouse in Alcor for 159G(11 turns otherwise)
The library in Mizar for 210G(12 turns otherwise)
and build culture right away on all three for a couple of turns?

AlphaShard
Apr 14, 2011, 06:12 AM
I think we should rush the Lib in Mizar.

Well no one discussed what we should do with the workers so to avoid wasted turns I moved two workers to chop the forest south of Aleder. I sent a worker to Mizar, another to Alder and one to south city.

HUSch
Apr 14, 2011, 09:25 AM
good action Alpha.

HUSch
Apr 14, 2011, 10:49 AM
But in this turn the forest south of Ald is Amas. btw, why left fed the road?

I vote further for town at spot of Anjen. And best we build at Anjen some courts and bancs.

AlphaShard
Apr 14, 2011, 11:15 AM
But in this turn the forest south of Ald is Amas.
Culture pop? Last turn it was ours, looks like we need to be rushing some culture buildings.

btw, why left fed the road?

I don't know what your asking.


I vote further for town at spot of Anjen. And best we build at Anjen some courts and bancs.

:goodjob: Agreed

BLubmuz
Apr 14, 2011, 03:24 PM
OK, i know you'll crucify me for that, but i built the road on the now Ama forest. But sooner rather than later it will fall back in our culture.

I deleted the stone to Quat, they've finished the SM, so we have gained 1 turn on OU.

Now we have enough money, so i think we can keep the slider to 0 until the OU is completed then go straight to Physics, butning the GS in the process. It will be replaced by the one from Physics for our next GAge.

War news in the appropriate thread.

Please note that i moved the units only in the Mavs' area, except the Cav which i want in Anjennida.
I'm still busy with my PC, so please complete the moves i left.

Irgy
Apr 14, 2011, 04:44 PM
We should definately be saving cash while building OU. In fact we should be saving cash for a little while regardless, since we're still in the ETTT for now. I might give Amazon a poke over what's happening with Merlot and how long they're going to take...

AlphaShard
Apr 14, 2011, 05:52 PM
We need to decide where to settle the spire city. I've attached a picture with tags so we can pick the best spot. I'd like to settle this city this turn, since it's not a war unit we can wait to the last hour on this one.

Edit: I changed the city name from Injinya to Antares, feel free Bulbmuz to change it to Giza if you really want that name. I just wanted them to see the name change before they get wiped.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287593&stc=1&d=1302821526

BLubmuz
Apr 14, 2011, 06:18 PM
Spots D and G have the same benefits i already described for spot I, but there won't be any problem with Ama.
Spot B is the initial choice, not so different as we already discussed.

For me it's the same, but you can't settle in any of them this turn. You need it to move, then settle next one.

AlphaShard
Apr 14, 2011, 06:40 PM
Ah so we ARE happy with spot b then where the Crossbowman is already? I thought I was reading that we had other ideas. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a disagreement on this.

Also the settler can settle on I this turn, or L as the game seems to be suggesting, that that I want that spot. I do perfer to go to the CB.

Irgy
Apr 14, 2011, 07:04 PM
I still think B is the best, but it doesn't make that much difference to me either.

Alltriia
Apr 14, 2011, 11:53 PM
Hhhhm...what about set it in L(to help with the culture against Saber expansion) and build one in B later on?

HUSch
Apr 15, 2011, 08:41 AM
We want a town there with good chance to make prod or commerce for us and not a gullet or a frontier village.

Blub why do you build a road for Ama there, so that they get a free access at the forest? If you shut the eyes and chop that would be better for us, not for our relation (I don't know who get the gain?).

AlphaShard
Apr 15, 2011, 09:37 AM
So you complain that Bulb built a road and then suggest chopping the forest for them? :confused:

BLubmuz
Apr 15, 2011, 01:27 PM
So you complain that Bulb built a road and then suggest chopping the forest for them? :confused:You can't chop forests or jungles and clean fallout in foreign territory, unless at war. I know well, it was a key point of my last succession game.

Soon that tile will return to us and the workers were already there. Ama do not have a single worker in the area

Alltriia
Apr 15, 2011, 03:56 PM
Conquering Mav's island some turns before Amazon does their's it's a priceless advantage. If getting Gold City doesn't cost us that much units, we still have a respectable army that can heal just like that with the super medic and almost ready for action.
Meening that we might be able to re-buff the army while the stack is healing and while invading Q we'll be already building city infrastructures.

Sounds solid?


EDIT: In the Civstats game page, player summary table, what does the asterisc column meens?

AlphaShard
Apr 15, 2011, 05:28 PM
The asteric means the player has hit end turn. I do agree with your assessment, we do seem to be on a roll.

HUSch
Apr 16, 2011, 10:50 AM
Soon that tile will return to us
How can it be? They 've now after the 1. CE +20 :culture:/turn, we need for the +20 the 2. CE. So I see no chance for us to get it back. So it would better to left the tile.

HUSch
Apr 16, 2011, 11:13 AM
Who has moved Ironside? Who couldn't wait here? I say it repeatly, there is no reason for moving the first time anybody log in.
I don't understand it, why must the cav wait at Sol?
2. What is the goal with the general?

BLubmuz
Apr 16, 2011, 01:00 PM
I moved the ship, to gather the GG. Sorry, i haven't seen the Cav ready.

About the GG as i posted in the war thread, i suggest to settle him in our HE city.

HUSch
Apr 17, 2011, 08:42 AM
Good
We need for the Quat war cavs with flanking 2 against mgs.

Alltriia
Apr 18, 2011, 02:09 PM
We should be already building culture on Comet. Amazon cities are expanding their culture and are cuting through our domain as a hot knife on butter.

HUSch
Apr 19, 2011, 03:34 AM
They 've merka and caste and sistine, so they get at least 2, most 6 :culture: in every town. How 'll you do something against. Best would be: 100 % culture a few turns but this cost some and additional we go against them at Anjen.

btw
This is a result of our action to get the south coast towns for fighting against Quat.

HUSch
Apr 19, 2011, 03:47 AM
We need lux-buildings like theatre or col in our main towns. markets also.
We live from res of our allies.

BLubmuz
Apr 19, 2011, 06:43 AM
We need lux-buildings like theatre or col in our main towns. markets also.
We live from res of our allies.Markets first, theaters once we have access to dyes, sure.
But don't forget that wiping Mavs will have a positive impact on our WW and the gems will give +2:) in any city with a forge in 3 turns.

Would you please explain the last sentence?

edit
Logged and made all the military moves. Also queued a WB in Rigel. We need 1-2 workers in soon former Mavs island, to improve the dyes.

Alltriia
Apr 19, 2011, 06:27 PM
I think we should take the cultural pressure from the Comet cities as soon as possible. Starting to build culture on those cities to squeeze Amazons out.

AlphaShard
Apr 19, 2011, 07:43 PM
Alltria, we have build Libraries and Theatres as well as hired Artists there to combat Culture.

Alltriia
Apr 20, 2011, 05:12 AM
What I ment is to put culture on top of some city queues for a couple of turns. Those that have at least a forge.

Alcor does need the forge that we should rush buy as economic as possible. The same goes for Altair with the Dike(Is the Dike worth to rush buy? It's done in 33 turns and costs 800 and something Gold to rush it.). Hadar can also help to to pressure on New City's culture too, right?

HUSch
Apr 20, 2011, 05:39 AM
So we need there our religion. also in the Mavs-isle-towns.

We should first make a sequence of our wishes.
Attack Quat or building our empire? There is no possibility of both.

I don't understand the frigate in Arc so I 've changed to cav. Also I chnaged the job at our south coast town from forge to theatre. We need there a ground culture.

Please decide where we build 5-6 missios the next turns.

BLubmuz
Apr 20, 2011, 08:46 AM
We must take 2 decisions for next turn:

1) start researching again with the path i proposed
2) start the GAge with a GS

Slaze deleted the 3 HA. I think that this tactic has some justification in the need to transfer to Merlot as much gold as possible. He also whipped a Pike, but it will be unpromoted and unfortified, no match for our Cavs. Luckily he doesn't gave to Mavs a Merlot city. I don't know if why he doesn't thought to this chance or why he's afraid to commit some infraction to the rules.

When i logged i've seen some worker not moved. So i did something, better than nothing, i guess.

HUSch, we don't have many choices for missionaries. We got only few cities with monasteries, all with good production. I see the point in buiding them at least for the Comet cities, so better move on.

HUSch
Apr 20, 2011, 11:47 AM
I would wait til RR with start of researching.
And I against a GA before we go at war against Quat.
We must see, we are then in war til the end, therte is no reason for any other ideas, CDZ 'll not wait and you must understand that Ama and CDZ hadn't won against Mer now. So the delete of the ally is against their/Amas wish, also they could say nothing about. What do you expect from CDZ and Ama if we declare war at Quat, what do you expect from Quat self?
Quat 'll make an request and sees
a) no response, then they go to Mer
b) any kind of response.
Want we this? Are we ready for this. Ama has recruit rifles the last turns for their combat against Mer. I think we must wait for them to diminish Mer. If not they 've to help Quat without declare war against us.

If we go at war we change the civics to war
police, nation, slav, merka and theo, all other are statebuilding and then nonsense. Especially US and eman.

btw
Blub I haven't read any plan from you about the attack other than we 'll ferry our units to Comet and then go at mirza at the EIs and land there. Imo we 've not enough units for this a long tiime.


btw
i find your research path not so good, there is no one who 'll go at physics against us and the sacrifice of a scientist to get a scientist. For me Bio and food is more important because we 'll recruit and slave every turn most we can, because we need it, we fight against the other, also we 've a NAP with Ama and both sides 'll keep the contract.

HUSch
Apr 20, 2011, 11:58 AM
:goodjob: Congratulation for eleminating Mav :goodjob:

BLubmuz
Apr 20, 2011, 05:24 PM
I think that waiting for CDZ complete RR before declare on Quat is a constraint more than a decision. We need 2 turns to fully heal our troops, 3-4 to have them in Mizar (so ready to be loaded) so let's say we can be ready in 5 turns. Of course i don't have a detailed plan for the invasion.
What i can say from what we can see *now* is that if we land a small stack (say a full EI) in the same turn we declare near any Quat city in their home-isle, they will be wiped from it. But i don't know what they will do in the next 5 turns (sorry, my crystal ball is out of order). What i can say is that the more EIs and frigates we can have in Mizar area, the better. But we must keep watched the 3 frigates now near the Pyra city and the 2 galleons now in Ama point city.

Forget to use slavery. We MUST continue on Emancipation to avoid unhappiness. If we start a GAge we can consider to move to Nationhood for 5-6 turns, no more. We can also consider to adopt PS for those same 5-6 turns.
Speaking of GAge, i agree that probably is worth wait 2-3 more turns, but no more. BTW, Ama popped a GS few turns ago and a GM last turn, so it's better to burn our 2nd GS on physics. Also we can consider to go for Communism, for the GSpy.

About Diplo with Ama, let me think something. Tomorrow i'll try to post a draft.

Last, don't congratulate me, Mavs' defeat is a team achievement. I just proposed a decent plan and actuate it with a good dose of luck (Quat uncoordinated invasion). BTW all those cannons were pretty useless, since i focused on them to answer to the cats. With indecent hindsight, less cannons and more cavs could have done better. But that's it and it went better than we expected.

AlphaShard
Apr 20, 2011, 09:50 PM
Actually it'd be nice to go peace if Mer if only to get rid of that annoying "Uhh what is war good for?" :mad:

Oh well at least we have temples and Colosseums we can make.

Well they do have some rifles sitting on Galleons right now so I don't know where they are going or what they are going to do. Only that their choices of conquest have pretty much become US or CDZ.

HUSch
Apr 21, 2011, 02:08 AM
I think that waiting for CDZ complete RR before declare on Quat is a constraint more than a decision. We need 2 turns to fully heal our troops, 3-4 to have them in Mizar (so ready to be loaded) so let's say we can be ready in 5 turns. Of course i don't have a detailed plan for the invasion.
What i can say from what we can see *now* is that if we land a small stack (say a full EI) in the same turn we declare near any Quat city in their home-isle, they will be wiped from it. But i don't know what they will do in the next 5 turns (sorry, my crystal ball is out of order). What i can say is that the more EIs and frigates we can have in Mizar area, the better. But we must keep watched the 3 frigates now near the Pyra city and the 2 galleons now in Ama point city.

In 5 turns, when we can land there, they 've RR or CDZ is letting them fall, do you think this? With RR they 've in every town mgs, no wipe with any shipload of units. For this sit, I think you need a plan, imo you going step for step without schedule.

Forget to use slavery. We MUST continue on Emancipation to avoid unhappiness. If we start a GAge we can consider to move to Nationhood for 5-6 turns, no more. We can also consider to adopt PS for those same 5-6 turns.
Speaking of GAge, i agree that probably is worth wait 2-3 more turns, but no more. BTW, Ama popped a GS few turns ago and a GM last turn, so it's better to burn our 2nd GS on physics. Also we can consider to go for Communism, for the GSpy.

eman for luck is . our costs not in slavery we could see in Comet; eman is good for growing cottages and so a real peace-building civic. You are thinking about stop the conquering after Quat, how and why?

Last, don't congratulate me, Mavs' defeat is a team achievement. I just proposed a decent plan and actuate it with a good dose of luck (Quat uncoordinated invasion). BTW all those cannons were pretty useless, since i focused on them to answer to the cats. With indecent hindsight, less cannons and more cavs could have done better. But that's it and it went better than we expected.

If there was no landing of Quat and their stupid move our army has a lot more damages from Maw.

HUSch
Apr 21, 2011, 03:33 AM
I 've changed the culture rate to 100%.
If you don't agree, say it and I or another change it back, we 've 1,5 day for it.

With the culture we get a push back against Ama
In Anjen
Rigel +90
Achenar +58
at center
Altair + 33
Comet
Ald +28 and cult Exp this turn
Alcor +20
Mirza +27

the unlucky in canopus is also not more + 2 working people, here is this turn the market ready.

BLubmuz
Apr 21, 2011, 04:07 AM
My actual plan is: bring more troops we can in Mizar, bring more navy we can in Mizar.
To get into details for the invasion i need to see what Quat do in the next 3 turns.
In those 3 turns we can't do anything but heal and ferry troops and moving ships.

Remember that, when Mavericks were forced in their island due to our superior navy, Quat has our same naval units and they have more than us at present.

I'm wondering what those 2 galleons can do. Were they for another attempt on Mavs or are they for us? For sure they're not empty.

And for sure i can't make a perfectly detailed plan until the last moment. Once we have a good number of mixed troops loaded near Mizar, we can start draft a plan, not early. I think i will post a plan on turn 100 (just a number), log to see the situation at the very beginning of turn 101, post possible variations, wait some hour, play.

AlphaShard
Apr 21, 2011, 05:16 AM
Husch the word your looking for is Unhappy, not unlucky. Anyways I like the 100% Culture idea that does seem like a good plan.

The war was a combined effort as we discussed what moves we should do and I believe we did all say wait and let's see Quat repeat there mistakes with Mav, again.

EDIT: Would it be considered rude to post in the main game section about us defeating Mavericks? I mean Slaze did do a good job with them and all that.

HUSch
Apr 22, 2011, 09:12 AM
Thx Alpha,

In Civstat everybody can see Mav is eliminated and who done it.
I 've the same idea,
He has made a good job and give all us a fair fight, with AI the war were decided in only few turns long ago.
He plays Mer also, I would like to invite him to join us. Better us than other.

Should we open a new fred or where to make condolences/gratulations?

AlphaShard
Apr 22, 2011, 10:10 AM
Are you talking about in game siding with the Merlot or having Slaze join our team once Merlot is defeated?

I just wanted to make sure we were tactful about it is all.

Also what should we name Mav Isle? Should we name it after a galaxy or something? Another star?

HUSch
Apr 23, 2011, 10:25 AM
I would it named after clouds or fogs (that's bad translations, btw thx Alpha) like Magellan or Orion or Crab (with one of the first Pulsar).

Ingame we are no siding with Slaze/Merlot, but perhaps he is interested at playing continuilly the Dg, then i would invite him to Sirius after lost of mer.

And Ama recruits 3 rifle this turn. I think they 've now the culture same point as we, but because their mad points (3*3*7 = 63) 21 People for 21 rifle better than all other you get for 16-20 :food:.

The Quat Armada (7 gallons) is south of their isle, does anyone know, what is on this.

I 've changed job in Rigel EI for theatre. this EI gets navi1 and plays ferry, the additional mp is important, because its 5 tiles from Sol-ferry-point to Arc. If we build theatre we lost 3 :hammers: from overlay, this isn't nxt turn after building the EI.

CDZ has accelerate their research now RR in 3.
btw want we deal with them or not, what is the meaning about the sit? Ett or not; Quat and CDZ have no econ, why? Didn't we give it them or didn't they reqest it.

What is the meaning to cancel the marple deal with Ama, they 've our second at Mirza in their bag. And perhaps we want build ne or other.

Alltriia
Apr 23, 2011, 12:59 PM
No idea why the armada.

I don't think we gave it to them. They also didn't asked. They might be wondering why we haven't offered. I say let it continue.

Yes, let's cancel the marble deal. Was it in exchange for something?

AlphaShard
Apr 23, 2011, 02:12 PM
The Marble was promised but they probably are done with it especially now that their culture is snagging the other marble. It was in part to help with the whole taking Mizar from them.

And why not an Armada? This is the map for it!

No we haven't given the techs over, may have to if we want RR from them.

BLubmuz
Apr 23, 2011, 07:04 PM
Sorry guys, i disappeared, but my mom has some serious problems, she's in hospital now.

Please move the units at best to arrive healed in Mizar.

Probably i can log in the following days, but i'm busy.

Happy Easter to you all.

HUSch
Apr 24, 2011, 10:41 AM
Alpha
they get marple at Mirza, so its only convenient, that they should cancel the deal a long time ago.

Blub I wish all best, we made it til you 've time.

I logged in, Alpha has done the turn, I changed some working tiles no other.

btw
I see, that Quat let their artist make a picture in continuum (4355/5000 :culture: +45/turn), I think they want another CE for defense. They build ironworks there.

AlphaShard
Apr 24, 2011, 11:36 AM
I know that Amazon got Marble at Mirza, I canceled our trade of marble to them since they don't need 2.

HUSch
Apr 24, 2011, 03:27 PM
New turn and I logged in, made some working changes.
We lost our spy, i didn't know. that you can lose him, if he doesn't wait a turn.
Ama changed in their last GA-turn the civics, they 've now, desp (!), natio, Caste, FM and orga, desp I didn't understand.

I hope/think, we get RR from CDZ in 2-3 turns, so our worker (at northside of Comet) should go accordingly to Bode, perhaps build 1 at Sol after finish the jobs there. Next time I 'd make a plan to RR best then.

AlphaShard
Apr 24, 2011, 03:34 PM
They've adopted Despotism? Well if they've gone Caste system then we can get out of Eman.

HUSch
Apr 26, 2011, 01:00 PM
Yes, they 've desp, because they want mer every few turns in that; nice idea; I believe it crazy, they cities are all small they 've the same number than we, but pop 133 to we pop 173.

I ve made some looks at our evolution:
With RR and Bio we get in
Sir + 5 :hammers: + 0 :food:
Can + 3 h + 0 f
Arc + 5 h + 2 f
AC + 2 h + 0 f
Vega + 10 h + 6 f
Rigel + 2 h + 0 f
Proc + 5 h + 1 f
Ach nothing
Betei + 3 h + 0 f
BC + 5 h + 1 f
Had + 7 h + 1 f
Altair + 15 h + 3 f
Cap + 2h + 42 f:
Alde, Alcor, Miz + 5 h + 1-2 f
Acrux + 3 h + 4 f
Den + 1 h: + 0 f
Antares + 3 h + 2 f
Reg + 4 h + 4 f

I 've to delete some icons for the forum rules.

Alltriia
Apr 26, 2011, 01:04 PM
I think those rules are aimed at posts that would otherwise be filled with GIF smilies, not recuring static small images.

When are we expecting Bio?

HUSch
Apr 26, 2011, 01:09 PM
We 've conquered Mavs isle and so some new res to trade (in few turns) 3 gems, 6 rice and some dye.
Our trades now:
Ama
we get: deer, silver, fur, ivory, sheep;
we give: fish, silk, gold, pig
Quat
we get: wheat, spice
we give: fish, gold
CDZ
we get: crab, sugar
we give: fish, silk

You can see, we are 1 lose against Ama, but we can give rice this turn.

There is another point to look at; CDZ hasn't coal, we all other 2, but til now nobody gives it them, should we give one for good relations; I would think it an idea, especially when we want RR from them and their friendly neutrality in the war against Quat, perhaps they go then against the spore with the 2 coal.

Btw
The sit with coal is a tip for the reasonable sit with oil, we see with scimeth.

HUSch
Apr 26, 2011, 01:13 PM
Bio would for me the first tech after getting Scimeth. I think next turn we 'll go for money some turns and then research whole time, for this I would like more buildings in our towns, but this is my opinion.
There is also Blub who want physics first, I don't know why, the scientist (we 've 2) is not an incentive especially there would no other to research quicker than we, and there is nobody who can see our research.

HUSch
Apr 28, 2011, 08:49 AM
Hello, no posts!

I looked in the game, the units are moved. The EI with the missio should go like at the pic, the worker build a road there and the cannons can land, then can other units from Bode enter the EI and the EI can ferry them next turn to Ald. Perhaps another EI from the Mavsisle can go also at the tile land their units and take some from Bode. I move the units to south there and shift the commerce to money back this turn, we need perhaps some money.
Next turn CDZ has RR, today I hope.


btw
I consider to push the granary in Alcrux and

Alltriia
Apr 28, 2011, 10:43 AM
Indeed. It seems that the groups has taken vacations. :)
Amazon seems to finaly decided to send the GM on the Caravel. But why is the Galleon playing in our yard?

Do we need to move troops so urgently to Comet? I still think we should gather the troops in MavIsland(We should rename it, too) to invade Q in a swift blow.
Example: Starting to fill EIs up and distributing them from Regulus to south of Shamoo Pointe as we would be fog bursting.

AlphaShard
Apr 28, 2011, 11:06 AM
Well maybe we can name Mav Isle after a galaxy from List of Galaxies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_galaxies).

Maybe after a Zodiac? How did we name Bode and Comet to begin with?

Yeah I agree that we will want to conquer Quat swiftly once we start, thus all our forces need to be ready and gathered.

Irgy
Apr 28, 2011, 06:40 PM
I'm back, but no-one else is posting and I haven't looked in game yet so not sure what to add. My vacation has put me a little out of touch with what's happening. Anyone care to give a summary? :D

AlphaShard
Apr 28, 2011, 06:59 PM
Well we've conquered Maverick Isle. We've been moving forces to the Comet spoke in anticipation of attacking Quat, and were going to trade Econ to CDZ for RR.

Irgy
Apr 28, 2011, 07:32 PM
Well, that's about everything that I had figured out, but good to know I haven't missed anything else important then ;)

AlphaShard
Apr 28, 2011, 07:50 PM
Amazon does currently have a Galleon and Caraval parked at Sol.

HUSch
Apr 29, 2011, 04:28 AM
They are landing Spies or what. We get RR from Barbu as I 've seen in CivStat. That is good.
Has CDZ coal now?

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 05:24 AM
If they have coal it's not from us.

They may be, I think we will have to write to them and tell them about the spy that got captured trying to get to the southern cities of ours.

HUSch
Apr 29, 2011, 11:08 AM
Hello
Why are the sign delete, I made them, because we need some RR more than other. The most important are the rivermines from Arc in both directions SW and SE. SW straight to BC and SE to the south of Proc. Then the connection Vega-Arc, then other tiles; river tiles allways before other. I 've made new lines ingame.

The 3 worker north of Ald go next turn with EI to Bode. at best with Titan after the units from it land there, an EI from Ald can go there and take the other units from Bode. In Comet we get no prod from RR, there is 1 worker enough.

Also I changed the job in Proc to worker and in Hadar to frig, with dock and without barracks/stable, we should there build ships. The frig can then go over channell to south of Comet. Also I changed the working tiles in Acrux, after hurrying the granary we shouldn't grow this, we can grow next turn with then 8 food in granary or wait the next turn also with working only 1 mine and grow with 12 in the granary (+4 overlay to get 16/26 after growing), both are possible.

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 11:28 AM
The signs were too much clutter (for screen cap purposes) and honestly a little insulting, is it really necessary to point out that we can RR all the mined hills? Obviously we will RR all the mined hills in range of the cities.

HUSch
Apr 29, 2011, 11:42 AM
Alpha
some tiles are more important than other. We 've in Bode 38 tiles with RR gives +1 :hammers:; we 've there now 6 worker ( 1 build a workshop total unimportant at Capella, 2 are standing north Hadar, didn't build RR), next turn 7 (Proc) then +3 from Comet in BC ( I hope). Additional we 've connection lines to consider, most important Arc to Center for moving our troops.
I ask, is the moving of our units quicker with the RR build this turn, no, because the RR is without connection to another RR/town. That is crazy. When you didn't see a reason for my signs ask, don't move quick. There is no reason for quick moving.

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 11:48 AM
I did see your reason, I just thought they were obvious and unnecessary and cluttering the screen capping process.

Alltriia
Apr 29, 2011, 07:25 PM
I think we will have to write to them and tell them about the spy that got captured trying to get to the southern cities of ours.Amazon's? Where?

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 07:28 PM
Ours and it was between that new lake city and midi.

Alltriia
Apr 29, 2011, 07:29 PM
I never knew this. And who cought it? Amazons?

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 07:39 PM
Well there culture caught it. Which was very annoying since it was just one turn.

Alltriia
Apr 29, 2011, 07:40 PM
Damn! One of those rolls, hum?

AlphaShard
Apr 29, 2011, 07:51 PM
Yes very bad roll :(

Alltriia
Apr 29, 2011, 07:59 PM
BTW, I forgot about the main issue. We might clarify it in the next message, but I don't think sending them a message just for it is productive. They should understand as the borders flipped right away. Also, don't forget that we don't know where their spy is. ;)

HUSch
Apr 30, 2011, 09:45 AM
If they are good, their spy is now at SOL. There is no other reason (better I see no other) for their going with their ships there.

Trystero
Apr 30, 2011, 08:53 PM
We could build and station spies in our cities as a counter-espionage move.

HUSch
May 01, 2011, 01:34 PM
H
The 3 worker north of Ald go next turn with EI to Bode. at best with Titan after the units from it land there, an EI from Ald can go there and take the other units from Bode. In Comet we get no prod from RR, there is 1 worker enough.


Sry, Alpha
Why didn't you read this and moved units? There were 3 EI, but no EI for ferry the worker. The missios are only in Comet important, at Mavs isle it's for nothing, we don't want to build there units a long time and our religion brings only culture and 2 EP for units.

Before the worker are distributed to build RR, please look at the cityscreens to decide, in which town a +1 :hammers: is best! In Hadar not! Additional look at the connection, on that tile there isn't one. Hadar is no ferry point and we 'll build there ships they need no RR. We had in Bode-central 2 RR-Troops (2 worker) they could make a RR from Arc to BC without problems, so that our units from Arc or Sol (over Arc) can go quick to Comet and Quat-combat; when this is the goal.

If you 've not time enough for consider and decide, then wait, instead of moving in few minutes.

There is a worker on the marple at Rigel, why is he doing nothing, I don't understand, if you want to RR this tile you can stop 1 step before, build RR and break, so that you lose nothing and gain the RR-building-turn, best at lumber in the south of Rigel, there get we connection and +1 :hammers:.

HUSch
May 01, 2011, 01:46 PM
i nve moved 2 worker at Ald to build the RR SE of Ald. But in this turn is that no gain for moving our units. The 3. is beginning th RR at nnw of Alcor, there can Fed next turn finish.
But I hope that next turn the worker goes at Bode.

HUSch
May 01, 2011, 01:51 PM
CDZ has changed civics to orga and FM.

I would like to ask ingame CDZ about coal. We should decide it. We need an ally against Ama.


btw
I 've changed the commerce to culture, we 've a day for considering and change back, if you want it.

BLubmuz
May 01, 2011, 03:29 PM
Let's keep good relations with CDZ, so let's offer them coal.

I hope also this will be considered in their long-awaited answer.

Do we gave them some tech? If they still don't have Econ we can give it them.

AlphaShard
May 01, 2011, 06:45 PM
The Comet cities now have Confusionism, Mav isle doesn't so I don't see why it's useless. If we need to build units to defend Mav Isle, then they will have the bonus exp. I wanted to build a faster RR connection between Alderbaran and Alcor.

I'm sorry I didn't understand your post but the Workers at Hadar are building RR on mined hills how is that not useful? Also if we build RR into comet then the units can take RR to comet and not needing ships. This will also provide fast movement defense for the spoke fortress. I did also heed your signs and moved those four workers on comet to bode. There are still tiles to develop and change on Comet though.

The worker on the Marble ran out of movement, though I thought I had set him for RR as well.

We also did the trade for CDZ for RR already.

I put Security Bureau's in the queue for the Sol cities since were pretty sure there are spies there and possible GS there as well. I think we need to also send a message to assure the spy that got caught in the Amazon territory was intended for Quat.

Irgy
May 01, 2011, 07:16 PM
I think we need to also send a message to assure the spy that got caught in the Amazon territory was intended for Quat.

From what I understand, they can see where the spy was in the message they get, right? Although whoever logged in first might have needed to be watching. If you let me know some more details of what happened I'll write a short note to them. Where was it caught and where was it going?

AlphaShard
May 01, 2011, 07:33 PM
If they click on the message in the event log they should see the screen center on the spot. The spy was moving south from Alderberan to Alcor.

HUSch
May 02, 2011, 03:46 PM
They get no message from which the spy is, they know only there was a spy at Midi or Lake. If they think it 'll be a spy from us, what should he do there. we see the tiles there and we haven't enough EsP for any missions.
Better no message.

AlphaShard
May 02, 2011, 03:55 PM
They get no message from which the spy is, they know only there was a spy at Midi or Lake. If they think it 'll be a spy from us, what should he do there. we see the tiles there and we haven't enough EsP for any missions.
Better no message.

I completely disagree, sometimes the message will say "A Dutch Spy was caught near the city of Whatever" and sometimes it will say "A Spy was caught near the city of whatever". We have no way of knowing which they got, but they can certainly guess who's spy it was.

I rather play it safe.

AlphaShard
May 02, 2011, 08:00 PM
I logged in and I noticed that there are now MG's in Amazon Comet cities. I really think we should send a message.

Irgy
May 02, 2011, 08:37 PM
I logged in and I noticed that there are now MG's in Amazon Comet cities. I really think we should send a message.

MG's?

Sorry, I haven't sent them anything yet but I'll do it now.

AlphaShard
May 02, 2011, 08:55 PM
Machine guns. Good work on the message.

HUSch
May 03, 2011, 10:12 AM
Ama defend their towns with mgs. That the only units without aggression.
We 've their our whole army, i can see that they are troubled about us.

I looked in the game, some worker are automatically moving.
I send the 3 from comet at titan the 4. can go next turn, then should titan go to BC and the worker can work at Bode.

Canopus build a security, have you good experience with this? I didn't have any experience (good or worse).

I'm against building RR for Ama at the center. If they need it, they can build it self. Best would be, if we delete the road there :).

I 've send a message ingame to CDZ about the coal, now they can answer, perhaps we get some.

AlphaShard
May 03, 2011, 11:21 AM
1) I know they are worried which is why I wanted to send a message to assure them we weren't about to attack them.

2) The workers are not automated, they have been given "build in this direction RR"

3) With a 50% against enemy spy missions, it's better then nothing at all. We need all the help we can get against Amazon's espionage.

4) What about our units that need to move through there? I'm only suggesting the one tile that is now in there culture. Deleting the road in fact would slow our unit movements at least by 1 turn for the 2 move units and 2 for the 1 move units. If we had a RR there, the Spy wouldn't have stopped in the culture zone.

Trystero
May 03, 2011, 08:07 PM
3) With a 50% against enemy spy missions, it's better then nothing at all. We need all the help we can get against Amazon's espionage.


Recall that we can also station spies in cities to help with counter-espionage.

Are Amazon directing EPs against us?

AlphaShard
May 03, 2011, 08:34 PM
Well Husch did make the supposition that spys may be deposited on our Sol Island. Spys probably would be quicker to build then a Security B. So far they aren't using EP's against us. I'm just trying to take preventive measures. Why DID there Caravel and Galleon come up to our Sol shores and sail away apparently dropping no one off, not even a GM, shouldn't we have seen that?

Irgy
May 03, 2011, 10:51 PM
Surely we have better things to build than giving penalties to spy missions in cities which aren't even likely espionage targets? The +8esp per turn makes the building worth something at least, but the one which gives +50% to esp output is better for that (not that we can build those yet). Not trying to whinge or criticise here, just saying it before we build another one.

Surely Amazon were dropping off a merchant, like they said they were? Why would we see it, when they can click the trade mission button from on the ship without even unloading it? The question is, did they get a money increase? Although they could also actually have spent that already too.

They told us they were sending ships for a merchant mission, we said we didn't need screenshot to confirm no spies, and now we're suddenly in a panic about spies, it just doesn't seem right.

Trystero
May 03, 2011, 11:02 PM
Is that why we are worried about Amazon espionage?

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Irgy. It's not like we would see the GM unless they left it sitting around, which is something they are unlikely to do.

The Security Bureau will be useful eventually, but we'd probably be better served building units, yes? Especially if Quat is building Ships of the Line (they know what is coming apparently). We are going to need destroyers soon.

(edit: I am also not complaining. :))

AlphaShard
May 04, 2011, 05:06 AM
Well we haven't built any SB's yet. A GM could have been delivered on the Caravel they sent but they also sent a Galleon, neither ship entered our city. I changed it to a spy since it takes just one turn for that and can do the same thing.

Trystero
May 04, 2011, 02:01 PM
Have we received RR yet? You could build machine-guns for defense in Canopus (or we could upgrade CG-promoted archers). Drill promoted MGs are also good for stack defense.

AlphaShard
May 04, 2011, 02:06 PM
Yes we got RR awhile ago from CDZ, we've been building RR since. MG on Sol would be a great thing and probably on mav isle