I went in to have a look at the demographics and realised a monkey could move the scout and press enter, so i did:)

I moved the scout SE
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5583/tcdz001.jpg
Can we say island? The people with a sweet tooth should be happy;)

Demographics
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6574/tcdz002.jpg
No team has 9 land squares for there start

Also one team seem to be work a plains hill with a forest (can't see another way to have 5 hammers)

Also DaveMcW told us (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9079271&postcount=1) the the Great Lighthouse has been built (boy did the whiners whine)

Anyway we can be safe to conclude from all of the above its going to be a sea based map, although there migh be large continents out there too for the teams to find. Exploration will be a priority.

Sailing is still a priority. It is important for us anyhow because we need a lighthouse for extra food and to optimally utilize financial trait quite rapidly. So, we would need 3 workboats. Or two and a galley. Circumnavigation could be huge on this type of map coupled with our extra movement from UB. From military point of view, if we can get to Theocracy/Vassalage and Astronomy-Chemistry, this would mean 7-movement frigates and privateers (+1 from circumnavigation, +2 from Navigation II promotion). This is huge for naval superiority. The path is not that hard, just need 3 or 4 or better 5 great scientists and to bypass Civil Service. Considering this, we can set priority on lightbulbing Pacifism (need an extra G-Scientist) or building Parthenon. Prioritizing Literature for National Epic also might work provided that there is good location for GP farming. Capital is not that good for either one of these. For Parthenon it is better to have marble.

I guess the main reason for disabling GL-house is due to somewhat imbalanced loads of forests in the starting locations so that it would be harder to chop it for a team which has more forests. Otherwise, we would have had a very good chance for that in the second city. There is an awful lot of forests there. We can still chop something less useful. Oracle is always nice but a bit bulky without marble. Still an option to consider.

The map indeed slightly resembles that of ISDG final. There, there are medium-sized islands around a large landmass reachable by galleys. That is one of the possibilities.

Need to explore a bit more to decide what to do.

If it is islands the choice of the Vikings begins to look better and better.

I can't see Robi's first picture... :(

EDIT: never mind, seeing it now. We should be able to fit at least 4 cities on the starting island...

Islands map combined with Vikings would be nice, but this is a manmade map, so I wouldn't discount something a bit more creative (large landmass with multiple civs, and then us on an island quite close)... IIRC there is coast to the NW of the capital... New island to be found there?

I wouldn't have thought there would be a few civs on one landmass and others shunted out, that'd make it quite unfair.

I wouldn't have thought there would be a few civs on one landmass and others shunted out, that'd make it quite unfair.

I agree. But all teams seemed to favour a map with a large landmass and easy access to other civs, so an islands map would be fairly opposite to what the teams preferred... :eek:

DaveMcW did say he liked he liked and islands/ snaky continents map and he said he was given some good ideas from various suggestions from team so my bet would be on a hybrid type map with a bit of everything.

Also i'd prefer 2 workboats + a galley to just 3 WB so we can send the scout along to explore any larger landmasses

Edit- I'd also suggest the scout move NE onto the hill for the next turn to give us a wider view

Edit- I'd also suggest the scout move NE onto the hill for the next turn to give us a wider view

I'd suggest the opposite and move it SE-SW. If the landmass continues, he can go on. With those hills, will get a good view of the east with the first cultural expansion.

Well we'll be swimming in gold, crabs and sugar then
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/992/3920bcvikings.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/3920bcvikings.jpg/)

I figure next move with the scout should probably be on to the gold hill. Otherwise two teams logged in this turn and didn't hit enter, just what can they need to discuss?

I figure next move with the scout should probably be on to the gold hill.[/i]

I agree.


Otherwise two teams logged in this turn and didn't hit enter, just what can they need to discuss?

Whether or not to press enter to end the turn obviously... :rolleyes: ;)

I figure next move with the scout should probably be on to the gold hill.

Agree as well

I also noticed that there are coastlines visible on the fog edge to our north, it hard to see in that shot if there are to the south as well.

As for the other teams:rolleyes:

Yeah, what a crabby start...

Scout to gold hill sounds good and I guess Calendar might be useful early in the game.

Crabby but sweet.

Looks like either an island or there's a thin land link somewhere we can't yet see.

This is getting really ridiculous... :rolleyes:
In the past 12 hours at least a dozen people have logged in to the game, but none, and I repeat, none of them has ended a turn... :rolleyes:

At this speed we'll still be playing by Christmas 2012... :mad:

Feel free to make a comment in their teams thread, i cannot think of a single reason why it is taking this long it is only going to be bloody scout moves there cannot even be much/any micromanagement yet!

Chopper's paradise to the south, with lots of plains-hills.

I see coastal tiles NW of capitol as well as NE of the gold hill. Wonder if we're each in our own island-pocket or if there are slivers of coastal routes between them???

At this speed we'll still be playing by Christmas 2012... :mad:
At this point i'd say that's optomistic

Feel free to make a comment in their teams thread, i cannot think of a single reason why it is taking this long it is only going to be bloody scout moves there cannot even be much/any micromanagement yet!

I can see it now;

Player A: Ok, should our warrior move east or west, poll open for 24hrs
some hours later...
Player B: But what about north, there is no option for north
Player C: I agree, north should be an option, we need a new poll
some hours later again...
Player A: Ok, but our consititution says we need three people to call for an invalidation of a poll and for 3 of the 5 members of government to agree
Player D: I'll be the third
Player A: Ok as minister for domestic and team affairs i agree, you need two more ministers
some more hours later....
Player E: As turnplayer i agree
and more...
Player F: As foriegn affairs and war minister i agree
and more again...
Player A: Ok done, orginal poll is invalid, new poll stared, should our warrior move east, west or north, poll open for 24hrs
yet more time passes...
Player G: Hang on i think we should go south, but the is no option on the poll for me to vote for it, i think we need a new poll to cover this option too.......
:lol:

Feel free to make a comment in their teams thread, i cannot think of a single reason why it is taking this long it is only going to be bloody scout moves there cannot even be much/any micromanagement yet!

IIRC DaveMcW stated in the rules thread that team captains can start new threads to poll changes in the game set-up. Since you're our captain, why don't you make a new thread about changing the timer to 20-24 hours?

I'll make a nice comment in the turn tracking thread...

Done

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9086215#post9086215

Full of Sugar on the island

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6479/3880bc.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/3880bc.jpg/)

If Dave hadn't gone to the time to make the map then I would otherwise say we should pull out now due to the actual joke that is the turn timer and other teams playing the bloody turn.

Oh, do we have a small island on our own? Might be. Might be kind of snaky. I vote for Scout N-NE.

And I vote for pressing enter to end the turn!

Wasn't any need for a picture, moved the scout south/south west as the border pop will reveal anything north but it's looking increasingly likely like this will be an island on our lonesome and we'll be needing to get the scouting ships out instead.

I think the turn timer proposal did exactly what was expected, given people a kick up the arse because the turn jus rolled over

Moved scout further into the woods in the south

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3482/borderexpansionturn.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/borderexpansionturn.jpg/)

More importantly was the border expansion revealing land on another island;
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2066/newland.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/newland.jpg/)

Wow i go out for the day and i miss all the action. Although i had plenty of action anyway, i was in a poker tournament which i finshed 18th and collected $175:).

Back to the game, it seems we can squeeze 4 very good cities on this island. Also i'd definately go with a galley so we can load the scout and explore the island to our NW completely.

With the scout we just need to see the remaining coastline to see if there is any more sea food

By the way what are we researching next, BW or Sailing?

New turn-

finished mining, started on BW. We're the only team to have a score jump that turn which means we are top of the pile!

I would say perhaps that we build 3 workboats before the trading post, the third workboat can do a little exploring before coming back to help out with the second city but i agree with building the galley after the trading post, seems a little pointless otherwise. Also should we beeline for circumnavigate or try and find people? I'd favour the former.

Started on BW for the chopping and the slaving, no need for sailing just yet as there isn't actually anything we can do with it.

Went in and took a pic of the demographics

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5337/tcdz003.jpg

The interesting thing here is the differences in the land area, where we are clearly last with 11 tiles. With the other teams either 1 has 15, 3 have 14 and 1 has 13 or its split 2,1,2 (15/14/13), otherwise the average wouldn't be 14 even

Now my first instinct was all the other teams moved, which seemed unlikely, then i though maybe the islands we started on are different shaped islands but it seemed strange that the other are between 13 and 15 and we are at 11, plus the big thing with maps for these games is to have equal starts.

Then it occured to me, the lake crabs. Maybe because we start with fishing we got crabs in those spots where as civs with hunting got deer and teams with agriculture got rice that way teams could have access to harvest a food resource without the need to research a tech. If we didn't have the crabs we would have 13 land tiles as well which mean 3 or 4 teams moved and this could be a big deal.

Why, notice how our border expansion just perfectly covers those ocean tiles between the coast tiles. A city in any other spot would have to wait for at least another border expansion, maybe even two expansions to be able to cross that gap leaving them stuck on their own island while we get out and explore and expand

New turn. Went in moved scout back towards our eastern coastline, pressed enter.

Nothing new to see so no screenshot required.

That turn went quick:)

Again moved scout, pressed enter.

Moved scout to the coast, unfortunately no seafood

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9417/tcdz004.jpg

Everyone but Amazon has 39pts who are still on 33.

It doesn't seem like anyones soldier counts went up so the techs discovered had no soilders attached to them.

Our worker isn't too far off:)

Don't suppose next time if you do a pic you could ctrl+r and ctrl+y so we can see resource and tile bonuses robi? :)

Don't suppose next time if you do a pic you could ctrl+r and ctrl+y so we can see resource and tile bonuses robi? :)

well you can see them in the previous pic, they haven't run away :)
but sure if i log in i'll do it

Don't suppose next time if you do a pic you could ctrl+r and ctrl+y so we can see resource and tile bonuses robi? :)

while we are at it, I want the grid on. ctrl+g please. :p

Went in moved the scout 2N. Not much change, there are crabs above him. Worker is done in two, first thing for it to do would be the hill north north east i guess so it is nearer the bank of forest to chop for the workboat.

Quick city proposal:

I am sure someone can do better...

I don't see a way of getting 6 cities there without moving the capital.

But at least we have access to every land tile on the island.

But an island nearby might change some stuff.

I think we should perhaps aim for 4 cities based on your map I'd move the red dot in the north one tile east. That would also help with border popping on the assumption we may need a way out that way.

I also figure that the two dots in the bottom right should be changed to just one, placed on the sugar north east of the middle red dot as this would give us access to both crabs, thereby giving us a half decent GP farm.

That dot map is good only if there is nowhere else to settle. IMO, for now, two cities should be sufficient. For GP farm, having two more sugars might be better in the long run but hard to tell. So, it is either between gold and crab or SW from that to get 2 crabs.

We need to get out of this island rapidly. So, priority can go to sailing and military to secure the expansion. The longer we sit there, the worse it gets. Another bad thing is that it would be hard to irrigate later in the game the northern areas which will probably never get settled. The forests can be chopped for what its worth for building something in the capital at some point after Mathematics.

Ynnek's map doesn't show the crabs which are in the north which can serve as some food.

Don't suppose next time if you do a pic you could ctrl+r and ctrl+y so we can see resource and tile bonuses robi? :)

so what happened to the pic? you did play the turn afterall:p

I agree that having a good city for a GP farm might be worth it. Especially if we don't find another nearby. What's better then 5 sugar + 1 crab (settling 1 W of eastern dot) or settling on sugar, then having 4 more sugar + 2 crab.

But as we need Calendar for harvesting sugar, this can be the 3rd city (but can be 2nd, we have crabs for starters.

I guess, we want to change some plans anyway as soon as we have explored a little. Meeting no one for a long time might still be possible (OK, Optics is not that far away if we rush it)

so what happened to the pic? you did play the turn afterall:p

After you set the trend of not posting pics every time you played i joined in! :p

@Sugar gives out less food when plantationed than when crabs are worked, only +1 iirc so settling west of the hill makes more sense if we want to use it as a GP farm. Also, settling on the sugar allows us to work another hill whilst we get the city set up into the GP farm.

edit- turn played, not much going on, worker finishes when the turn flips- will start on WB and move the worker onto the gold north east north.

edit- turn played, not much going on, worker finishes when the turn flips- will start on WB and move the worker onto the gold north east north.

My understanding is that the worker would go chop a forest.

My understanding is that the worker would go chop a forest.

No bronze working yet, so chopping is going to have to wait a bit...

Yep, hence the hill to the north as there are 4 forests around it which can be easily chopped.

Worker finished, Work boat started

Growth in 8, WB done in 15. Working the clams.

When is Bronze Working due?

6 turns iirc but it may be 7. I'll check next time i'm in.

So a work boat first may have been best! Not that it mathers anymore.

For the first 15 turns yes but the advantages of having the worker out is far greater as it means we can chop the second workboat quicker and still maintain population growth at a better pace.

A view to keep everyone happy

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7715/tcdz012.jpg

With respect to a GP farm, i don't see any spot on these island thats particularly ideal without comrpmising the positions of other city placements, and if we are going to be whipping early then were not going to be fully using it.

I think we are better off having 2 commerce driven cities in the north and 2 production driven cities in the south and saving the GP farm for somewhere else

Darkness's map from CDZ, looks like this ties up with BCLG's suggestions:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1088/tcdz012a.jpg

As at cdz

Anyways, finished turn, mine done in 4, BW in 5. No-one else has gone up in pop yet which means that everyone went worker first (or at least worker at somepoint when they realised they were on an island.

BCLG hadn't logged in yet so i went and pressed enter

Though i'd take a picture in case anyone has forgotten what our island looks like
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5479/tcdz019a.jpg

And the demographics too
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5394/tcdz019b.jpg

Of interest 4 teams have a pop size of 2, we along with one other team still have a pop of 1. Not a surprise given we are 6th out of 6 in crops.

No one else has researched BW at this point since their soldier counts haven't jumped up.

And in 2 turns when our pop increases working the gold hill will give us a very handy lead in GNP

All in all were looking good.


Also given there was no copper found on the island the red dot city i was in favour of is less important in my mind now unless we plan to chop an early wonder

So we need off this island. With Sailing due in 10 do we put our first settler on the new land and infil our island later?

I think it's dependent on what we find, the extra gold on our island would be fairly useful in pushing an early research rate.

We probably should not read too much into it, but there's no mention in Merlot's video of knowing there is a route to more land as we have. If we had move our capitol we would not be able to see the route, could they have moved before settling and not be able to see the way out?

We probably should not read too much into it, but there's no mention in Merlot's video of knowing there is a route to more land as we have. If we had move our capitol we would not be able to see the route, could they have moved before settling and not be able to see the way out?

It is possible, but i think they are just hinting on the fact that everyone is starting on their own little island

Anything interesting happen yet?;)

Nope, plodding along. Sailing next turn- will start on wheel. Just finishing off a warrior before a start on a WB and then will see how things look there, may be worth getting another city on the go.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1213/2960bc.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/2960bc.jpg/)

Lets see what that workboat finds!

This may take a time as this thread is a very long way behind, here's what's been going on at CDZ

12 May
I played the turn. Sailing is done, started on the Wheel which will take 4 turns
Oh, can't wait for the workboat to explore!
13 May
Me either, the excitement of logging in and hitting enter is too much...

What were we planning after this WB again? a galley or a settler?
I'd say a settler. We need a lighthouse before the galey.
Well I can pre build a lighthouse whilst we wait for the city to get to size 5 then start on settler and then when it hits size 5 switch to settler, when the settler is built let it finish.

Which means we should start thinking about where we want the city to be.
Could we plan on knowing where Horses and Iron located before settling or we have higher research priorities?
14 May
I thought this was the plan, or did something change? Nearterm goal is to find some other land to settle and grab it faster than the others.
Forgot about that, seems sensible, WB done in two, growth in six. TP will take 8 turns currently. Forgot to look for galley but i imagine not too many turns.

I think we should grab wheel and pottery but if the explorer WB makes no strides in finding bronze then i think we should research IW. Otherwise I think after pottery we should grab writing.
15 May
We'll need the wheel to connect up the gold if the city is going to grow.
or to whip regularly
We'll need both really. Having the 4 tiles constantly worked and a two pop whip will be nice.

Wheel should be completed when the mine is finished which is handy as it means no waiting around to begin roading.

What is everyones opinions on the forest remaining? shall we chop it asap or save it for something?
Agree with 2 crabs and 2 gold being worked constantly and then having 2 pop to whip.

With the forests try to save a couple for maths or to get some regrowth but just play it by ear

17 May
WB and wheel done next turn

Something odd about the demo implies to me they are not equal.

Check out the team with 6 more gnp, we're running 2 gold and 2 crabs and only second place. There is only one team with 5 but that must mean they have another mineral to mine or have i analysed this wrong? take it away robi!

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2725/demod.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/demod.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
18 May
Well i gathered earlier the starts weren't exactly identical because of our lower land area plus there is the possibility some teams didn't settle on the spot.

Also remember that the GNP with BtS is (research* bonuses) + commerce + culture + espionage. The research bonus comes from having optional pre req techs (ie the ones with arrows leading to the tech) and tech other people have that you have met, although we can exclude the latter possibilty at this stage.

Since we are doing wheel there is no pre req therefore no bonus where as the other team could be doing Animal Husbandry for example which has Agriculture or Hunting as pre req possibilities so knowing both gives you a 40% bonus (iirc its 20% bonus for each prereq) so if they were generating 30 beakers they would get a bonus 12 beakers on top of that.

If we do pottery next for example, we know fishing, but not agriculture so we would get a 20% which is 7.6 extra beakers, giving us a GNP of 44. If we knew agriculture the bonus would be 40% and would give us a GNP of 50 (assuming 4 EP's, 2 CP's).

The other possibilities at this stage is a wonder or religion which would increase the cultural output and the GNP along with it but you need to log into the game to check if either of these have been done.

Hope that answers your question:D
Just to show that I read your guide...

Might it be possible that the difference comes from the expenses side? E.g. cheaper civics (i.e.: no Slavery). I guess, that won't make a difference of 6.

Population of 90000. Is that size 5?

I guess, they might have moved. They also have less sea tiles than we (see land area)
Civic cost (or any maintainence costs) would not have a bearing this early on.

And yes 90000 is size 5.

I would also guess that others might not have a two tile lake with sea food. I'm would assume Dave gave us these because we started with fishing where as others don't
I think, we already concluded that at some point. Otherwise it would not be explicable that all have more land than we do. So I guess, maybe they have another gold. Or some more food bonusses.
I'd say maybe corn or wheat for civs with agriculture or deer for those with hunting. Also they might have an extra gold or silver to make up for lower commerce
19 May
No wonder when i logged in last or religion for that matter, makes me wonder- do you guys think we should try and grab an early one?
It would be nice bonus but its not vital. I suppose we could tie it in with going for writing, that way we can get an extra research bonus
I logged in but i didn't press enter as i can't see anywhere that we have an agreed or even suggested tech.

WB done and moved towards the chunck of land accross the water. TP started, is due in 8, although that will be less due to either working a tile, forest chopping or whipping.

I did check the GNP, if we do pottery our GNP is 44, where as with mysticism its 38. So whoever has 44 isn't procuing more commerce than us.

Also we could have a religion in 5 turns as myst takes 2 and whichever religion tech we wanted would be 3. Pottery also takes 3 turns as are most of the available techs apart from IW which is 7

I think this is a good point for a discussion on which tech to research next:)
Pottery?

Granaries are good for whipping...

About religion: I guess, with 5 teams being there and them maybe meeting late, I guess we should get us a religion. But I don't know whether it is worth it researching some of the religious techs now. OK, Oracle is nice, but what else? OK, if we we have OR, that would be nice and spreading someone else's religion, if it reaches us at all is also ba for us.

So, to conclude: I think, we should get a religion, but I don't know which.
Pottery = Like Ynnek said, good for whipping. Also, this is on the way to Calendar.

Iron Working = If we assume we have Iron on the Island, we will know where to found our second city.

Religion, not a bad Idea...

Also IIRC, we want to get calandar not too late.
I like whipping. I also like iron, but I don't like the amount of turns it needs to research.
I feel that Myst wouldn't be a bad idea and then see how things are looking there when we finish as to the religion. With myst we get the monuments for any early border pops we may need.

Otherwise we can always use the research for a religion to benefit us and go towards monarchy as we don't seem to have many happy resources around so the MP would be useful anyways.

I feel a reasonable tech plan could be

Myst (see how things look)- (if no religion then religious tech- preferably poly) (if religious tech then decide whether we want to risk it)- pottery- writing

I think it depends whether we meet anyone as to the extent we need IW but i do think if we don't grab that we should grab archery as any other islands and the barbs will start coming out.

edit- with regards to calendar, i don't think this is a major rush just based on what we can see so far. Currently the only resource we have is sugar which is pretty crap even with a plantation.

20 May
I agree with BCLG suggestion but we might need to change some things up depending on what the WB finds.
Personally I'd prefer Pottery first, but I am fine with trying to get a religion now, if the rest agrees on it.
Since Myst will take 2 turns, Meditation or Poly would take 3 and pottery will take 3 which would be done before we build our TP and galley so not doing pottery wont hold up building a granary
As it won't hold up the granary, go for the religion. We'll see if anyone else has the same idea once we have Myst to see which religion we go for.
Sine there is 8 hrs left to play the turn i'll go in and play it. I'll start myst for our research
I agree with BCLG suggestion but we might need to change some things up depending on what the WB finds.
Good point!
I am fine with that. And I amdesperately looking forward to getting screenshots with something new to see...
You're welcome to log in and take a look around :)
21 May
I agree with BCLG suggestion but we might need to change some things up depending on what the WB finds.
Next turn :)
Here is the new turn.

Moved workboat, then had a choice of heading north or south, after tossing a coin went north.

Also Buddhism was discovered this turn by someone
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/360/tcdz033.jpg

Discuss away :)
I felt poly would be the better option anyway because even if we fail it meant that mono was still an option so I don't think this alters plans to any great extent.

I do like the look of that potential commerce though!!!
Hmm, I don't see it mentioned in the Game Settings thread. Is Religion choosing off? I.e. do we know for sure that Poly isn't researched yet?

Yeah, looks like there is a nice site for some cottages. I guess, we should get that scout over there soon like planned...

23 May
I agree with BCLG suggestion but we might need to change some things up depending on what the WB finds.
Logged in set poly but we can change that if need be. I feel we should keep it on, we'll need it eventually anyway and we don't have any pressing need for the granary. If someone does found hinduism in the meantime we can always switch.

ynnek- religion choosing isn't on, so if it isn't checked it's default which = no religion choosing.

Also we met someone!

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3589/turn342640bc.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/turn342640bc.jpg/)

a panther!!!

Options seem to be, either go left and explore the new island or carry on with this one!
There is life outside our island!

As we will hopefully have a galley to drop the scout off soon, I would explore the new one.
Toss a coin, thats what i did:) Don't think it really matters although if there are a number of these mid size islands around us maybe we should build a 2nd scout to spped up the exploring of the interior of these islands
I agree with BCLG suggestion but we might need to change some things up depending on what the WB finds.
I'm never too keen on building scouts/explorers. They are a unit with finite use i find and therefore a waste of hammers, especially this early on where every hammer is vital.
Agreed, I quickly run out of uses for them and a warrior suitably promoted can move through jungle quickly enough.
24 May
They can make excellent medics with the right promotions:)
25 May
Played turn, no new picture not much to really see except those islands have jungle on.

Hinduism has been founded so we've got a decision to make- should we continue with poly and then try and grab monotheism or should we sack it off and just go for pottery? As we've only wasted a turn on poly i'm more partial to go for pottery now, particularly as we're running out of things for both our city to do and our worker to do (1st gold is hooked up), i'll get it to mine another hill seeing as we have nothing further for it to do currently.
26 May
We don't need to press for a religion, so a switch to pottery is fine by me.

Did you keep heading north with the WB?
Agree, we can switch to Pottery and go for Monotheism afterwards without a loss of a research unit...

I guess, that the worker has enough to do then.

But I don't know, whether we should go back to Monotheism anyway. Will we have a chance? Depends on whether the team that went for a religion try themselves.
Yep, figured that was the area we were most likely to settle so wouldn't hurt to take a better look at it.

Switched to pottery should be done in 4, it was Mavericks that founded hinduism.

Just logged back in this turn so we didn't miss a turn out or anything :)
To get Judism we would need Masonry as well, but we need Poly to get to Monarchy anyway

27 May
Turn 36

I kept heading north with the galley, plenty of wildlife to be found around here.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2387/tcdz036a.jpg

It certainly looks like at this point both these islands are bigger than our starting one. I suppose this could be a strait between 2 continents as well.


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7711/tcdz036b.jpg

Closer to home our pop hit 5. I think its better to mine the forested plains hill for a couple of reasons, firstly being that we are not short of food and the extra hammer is nice, but secondly it leaves the grass hill to the south empty so it gives the forest a chance to grow there.

Also switching from working the forest hill to a coast tile would give us pottery in 2 and TP in 4, but i feel its more useful to us to have the TP and galley done quicker and the one turn difference for pottery doesn't change anything,

Finally until we can exlpore inland on our neighbouring land masses, the spot south of our capital is looking the best for production.
There is no forested hill on the other landmasses where we can drop our Scout of to gain a little experience against thos animals?

Anyway, I see a 2n or 3rd city coming with two crab sources...

I guess, we need some fog busters on our little island if we remove the scout.

TP done as quickly as possible will be more important than having Pottery a turn earlier, I think.
Well following the TP we could always crack out a settler to plonk down where the scout is currently and then go for a galley meaning we don't have to worry as much about the fog busting. Plus there isn't an intense rush to go and look for things but when we do get the galley out i think we should just send it west as much as possible to try and grab that early circumnavigate bonus.
I agree, BCLG.

The 1st galley should drop off the Scout and then go exploring. The 1st island city (or main continent city...) can be done with the next galley. I guess, we might even want a 2nd galley for exploring if we don't find that these islands are isolated by ocean.

And I agree that a 2nd city on our main island might be useful (we might take a look on the dot map for that)

Well i see no reason not to fill up our main island but it's the point at which we do it where it becomes important. I think a third city would definitely have to be off island if we cannot find a metal.
28 May
It makes sense to send the galley off the the west. After pottery we can go back an try for mono to get a religion.

The commece potential of the other island is very nice indeed, could have a GP farm there as well.

Also i'd have to check in the game, but with the forest chop for the mine and a whip we could have a settler done pretty quick after the galley
I generally object to whipping settlers due to decreased bonus you get for doing so.
29 May
Played the turn, pottery in two, TP in two. Forest chop in 3. I figure we go for settler straight after TP, the bonus from that (2 extra food) and the mine should mean that we can crank it out fairly quickly. We can also use the worker to start roading towards where the city can be.

Where are we heading after pottery? writing?

the WB is still exploring, not finding much except jungle and animals.

30 May
New turn-

Exploring to the left was a bad idea, looks to be a spiderweb of an island

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/513/2840bc.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/2840bc.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Not a huge load of decent settling room, i'll send the WB back and it can go to the right of the capital.
It looks like a center of the map with uranium and aluminum there. It also seems that each one got a segment of this wonderful forest with rivers and wild animals to settle. So, IMO, we should do it as rapidly as possible given that our own island we can settle at any time and there is nothing of particular value there.

However, it would be easier to handle the animals and barbarians which are soon coming, if we have some metal or horses or know where these are so that we can settle near or on them. So, after pottery we might need to go either AH or IW. May be can squeeze in Writing.
Not in this case, not much extra food yet, and if whip, then with maximal overflow with 2 or even sometimes possible with 3 citizens (at size 6), then all your bonus gets into overflow.
31 May
Are you implying that we should settle on the other islands first or home island? Well i figure we should settle a city on this island first.

Also, in this game, IMO, whoever settles faster and more efficiently early on has a fair chance to win.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it was a bad idea at all, it gives us a better idea of the shape of the map, and correct me if i wrong but it looks like that could well be the centre of the map since there is a lot of other "canals" leading to it. It makes me think the map is shaped like a flower with the home islands in between the petals.

Sorry for the bad drawing but here is a visual of what i'm saying

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5904/maptheory2.jpg

If that is the case then sending a boat east and south will eventually bring us around to our neigbours who we will be competing against in settling the two petals we are between. And i'd rather send two galleys around and use the WB on one of the clams when we settle across the land to our west

If i'm right we need to look at setting both those land masses we can see as soon as its possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCLG100
Are you implying that we should settle on the other islands first or home island? Well i figure we should settle a city on this island first.

For what purpose? We don't have calendar and otherwise, this second city will be quite useless. It can develop much faster after calendar and then, it should be settled. IMO, as a rule, usually, if there is no usable resource or otherwise strategic land-grabbing benefit, settling can be delayed in favor of more useful spots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi D
If i'm right we need to look at setting both those land masses we can see as soon as its possible.
Yes, every turn counts, the race has already started. There also might be a limited supply of metals and horses there and we have not yet seen any copper which is a bad sign.

Priority can be put to Husbandry, Iron Working, and may be writing but IMO, there is no time for a library build. We might also need Archery. Otherwise, barbarian will pillage and rape a lot even against our nice aggressive warriors. Them suckers need no copper to build axes.
A useful tactic might be to use our navy (when we actually build a proper one) to block others access off their island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akots
For what purpose? We don't have calendar and otherwise, this second city will be quite useless. It can develop much faster after calendar and then, it should be settled. IMO, as a rule, usually, if there is no usable resource or otherwise strategic land-grabbing benefit, settling can be delayed in favor of more useful spots.
Well, there is gold and the crabs. Two useable resources both of which we can use to increase tech rate and maintain cities on this other island, the city itself will give us a minimum of 10 gpp extra within a couple of population pops. Thus far we can see nothing on these islands worth settling on, except the river, and they could just be another decoy. Making us rush to settle it for no reason. We also don't have to worry about buidling a galley before settling it, building troops to sit in it to stop barb attacks, transporting a worker over.

Judging by the plan from the past couple of turns, we're building one galley which we're instantly sending off elsewhere to try and circumnavigate. To get a city on the other island we'd have to then build another galley, a settler, and a military escort.

The other plan is we simply build a settler now, plonk it down on the island, bring that WB back to use in the city and then have a galley build after the settler to circumnavigate.

I don't see a reason to settle on the main islands immediately unless we can see a military resource and right now we can't see one. So if we crack out AH after pottery, settler after the TP and then horse pops up (should be done before the settler is finished). We go and plonk the settler down on the other land mass. If it doesn't we plonk it down on this landmass.

Robi i don't think that is the map layout, the land mass we have seen is too small for that to be 'it' for a map of this size. Also (and i can't remember this exactly) didn't we work out there was land at the edge of each corner of our home island.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCLG100
Robi i don't think that is the map layout, the land mass we have seen is too small for that to be 'it' for a map of this size. Also (and i can't remember this exactly) didn't we work out there was land at the edge of each corner of our home island.
There arn't any coastlines to our south, not visible anyway. And didn't we leave the map size along with everything else to the mapamker to choose?
If so he could have chosen a smaller size
The landmass could also have 12 arms instead of 6, which would mean, that each civ ahs it's two arms available and we could settle it a little more slowly.

I agree with BCLG that a 2nd city with gold and crabs would be useful. It is a valid way for fogbusting as well, warriors also cost something.

1 Jun
Ok new turn, I'll start on AH and a settler. Then when we get AH we can decide whether it's worth building the extra galley and warrior to then stick the settler over there. If not We can move the settler to settle somewhere on this island. I think one south of the scout taking advantage of the gold, plains hill and crabs instantly may be the best place.

I do think we should come up with some concerted strategy than taking it on a turn by turn baisis :)
Well the game is down and dave isn't back for a week so we now have plenty of time to decide!
No it seems to be running for me (both games).

As I was in there I started AH (in 4) and a Settler (in 6) started to bring workboat back and pressed enter.

1 S of the scout for this one, but we must get that scout onto the new land so galley (which takes the scout and comes back) then Warrior, Settler to get a city over there, or the Galley could continue and we build another.

Current build times: Galley = 5, Warrior=2, Settler=8
Weird working now as well, i switched off working the plains hill which had been chopped so we now get a settler in 5 :)

Stonehenge was completed last turn as well, wouldn't surprise me if it was sirius that built it seeing as LP seems to love it.
What tile are you working instead of the hill? Wouldn't be surpried either to find Sirus and LP had bagged Stonehenge. He does like it for some reason, personally i've never rated it highly.

Also i've had a bit of time to think about the discussions about where to put the next city. I think the best move is on our current island to take advantage of the third gold hill. We are yet to find anything on the other landmasses to say they offer more at this stage. Hopefully the scout will be able to find something when he gets over there.

It looks like we are going to need to reseach IW sooner rather than later. Could probably do it before writing since the extra gold hill will keep our research pace up.

Finally i've been thinking a bit more about the map. It does appear to be a bit small, but we don't know how far out the "petals" extend, we could be nearer to the base of them. Another possibility is that there could be 2 flowers on the map with 3 teams around each one which would leave each team with two petals to themselves. But its still all a guess until we explore more
There could always be more than one 'flower' in the middle.
It doesn't matter we only have a 3 hammer/food tiles to aim for. So one of the forested hills. Nothing else in the vicinity would give us much of a bonus.

I figure IW is a reasonable way to go then after AH.
With AH then IW we will be able to see those key resources we want to settle. AH is 4 turns, anyone know what IW will be? Will we get it before we're ready to plant the Settler?
Sounds like a plan. In combination with going for AH and IW, it should work almost on a tight schedule. But we also cannot neglect circumnavigation IMO. That would be huge on this map even with Astronomy.
2 Jun
Well the plan was if we don't see anything with AH we dump the settler on the island, build a galley or two, start on IW and then see how things stand.

I think perhaps we should crank out two galleys after the settler, one to go left and one to go right. I agree with akots that the circumnavigate bonus would be massive on this map.
3 Jun
Turn 40
Played the new turn.

Moved WB back south, moved worker into position to build road which will eventually lead to our new city.

Something caught my eye in the demographics so i did a bit of research and found this;

Amazon built their 2nd city on turn 38
Sirius built their 2nd city on turn 38
Mavericks built their 2nd city on turn 37

That leaves us along with Merlot and Quattronia with a 2nd city yet, although Quattronia did built Stonehenge (no other way to account for a 16pt increase)

By the way, the links to the posts in the quotes don't work, the post number is that at CDZ but the forum links it to that post number here on CFC. Calls up some real archive posts from 2001 if you click on them.

Good effort furiey!

I think akots missed a good legal spamming opportunity!

PS: I'm definitley not finding displacement activities to avoid doing something else...

Wow, great catch up :D