"Should the capitol 'province' be a province or should it be considered a district under rule of the domestic department?"

This is the question of this poll. Now how come? Many people complained about having a 1 city province being a waste of governmental material, and others say we should have the capitol province idea implemented as it was voted on.
And as such we searched for a solution to this which completely stays within the rules and allows us to not have to "waste" a governor for this sole city.

How could it work?
If we just and simply deny the "capitol province" its provincial status via this official poll, then that city is reverted under controll of the domestic department. All other provinces will still be normally controlled by governors.

Options:
* let it be a district under rule of the domestic department
* let it be a province with its own full qualified governor
* abstain

This poll is official and binding.
It was far prediscussed and proposedhere (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=582927#post582927).

It will be up for 48 hours or until quorum reached, whichever comes last.

a side comment:
we can of course later "redesign" the borders, but that process will need about two weeks (if not longer). the last borderproposals needed 2 months!

so imho, the above proposal is workable and within the rules. it will be the best way to go.

and it wont put too much work on those two people in the domestic department because its only 1 more city.
and 2 people can EASILY handle more than that. even if not, there are obviously enough people volunteering as mayors, which can provide this single buildqueue and the tile workage for you :-P

I chose abstain for obvious reasons

1. A province is defined by having 3 cities, which this does not.
2. Why have a district. why have an idea like this. Why not just have all the cities in provinces. why do we need to make special "districts" or special "provinces". Im sure we plan to make the city that houses the FP a district and that means the governor of the province that has that loses a city. Is it so wrong to just let all cities be in provinces and not have this district idea. All the district idea is an endrun around the one city province. We need to make a rule change stateing for a fact that a province can be one city and say no to a district.

So as till now i didnt even see a rule proposal for that one :-)

And we already decided to IMPLEMENT it... see the province border poll. So it IS a province now. And btw: The rules do NOT say a province HAS to have 3 cities, it only say that a province MAY be declared if there are 3 cities outside a province...

Anyways, this poll is not conflicting with any future rulechange or provincial border discussions/decissions/polls.

It is just a poll to implement a measure to work arround the issue at the moment. If the populace decides to change it later on, that will be no problem.

I voted it should be under the Domestic Department. It should be like the District of Clolumbia in the USA. Also, in the Civ 2 game the Domestic Head runs capital province/district.

yeah and dc is also in a state, which if thats what provinces truly are then it should be part of the province. If your going to do this idea do it with a district being inside the borders of a province

Actually, the District of Columbia is smack dab between Virginia and Maryland, and isn't completely within any particular state. It doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of any other state, and operates independently of Virginia and Maryland.

well so it is an example for the first option :-)
or does it have a senate seat?
if no, then DC would be for the us what bavaria with its mayor would be for fanatika :-))

We should let the Domestic Department handle the 9 by 9 section of that provance :). IMO Since the provance is too small to handle a govenor, we should have the Domestic Leader become the acting govenor while the mayor becomes the acting Deputy Govenor.

D.C. does not elect a senator, however, they do elect a single representative for the House of Representatives. They are officially under the control of the Federal Gov't, but the District of Columbia Home Rule act allows them to primarily govern themselves without Federal interference.

So they're kind of a mix then

Thanks Veera, for at least attempting to explain that. :D

DC exists solely within the borders of Maryland. (The part that was in Virginia was returned to that state many years ago.) However, it is strictly Federal land, and Maryland does not own any part of it, nor does Maryland law extend to it. Probably the closest equivalent here would be to make Bavaria a district run by the Domestic Department, but with a Mayor to handle the actual day-to-day dealings.

Well, it shares three borders with MD, and one with VA, so I was close enough ;-)

Thanks for more clarification though Padma. Everything I said was just what I was able to garner using a search engine.

Actually running the city is not so much the issue here, if it is a province, the governor will do it. If it is a district, the domestic perartment will do it and the Mayor will play a large part.

The main concern is whether the person in control of the area sits in the Senate and votes on constitutional changes, etc. (I hope the senate will have other roles soon, but I will wait till next term to re-inginite THAT crusade).

IMHO this 'province' should be regarded as a province and have an elected Governor like every other province. So it's a crap province, so what? So it's a toatally worthless province, so what? There were some provinces in Phoenatica with a combinved production of 2. It is a chance for another person to get involved in political life, albeit a pathetic position. It is safer to have a larger Senate too.

It is unlikely that we will have really 'quality' candidates, ie experienced players, but it is a non-taking position for new players to try. It is unlikely that we will get reliable people to fill the postion, but hey, it's only one city and the dom dep could easily take over in an emergency.

We have decided to make it a one city province and though this was the wrong decition., we must not compound our stupidity by further lessening the benefits of the situation.

Long live the CAPITAL PROVINCE of BOHEMIA!!

Although I would agree with you for most other cities Josh, our capital city... It would be scary to leave it in the hands of someone inexperienced. :cringe:

At least the post by AJ was the original intend behind the proposal. Get the VicePres some work :-)

btw:
A provincial law discussion thread has been opened:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36342
I put a proposal up there explicitly allowing us to define districts and giving them to the vice-president :-)

Hmmm. Someone besides me voted for option #2.

I would be in favor of a new amendment to our laws with special instructions pertaining to our capitol, and possibly to our Forbidden Palace city.

Perhaps stating these cities shall always be cities not within the jurisdiction of a province? Or perhaps allowing them to be under the jurisdiction of the Vice President? In fact, I rather like that VP idea... Wish it had been brought up more strongly during discussion. >_< At least it would give that person *something* to do ;-)

I have voted no. We would be better served by simply combining Bavaria, Valhalla and Kukhaff into one province.

Edit: I have requested that the domestic department post a poll on the question of combining Bavaria, Valhalla and Kukhaff into the province of Bohemia. If two more citizens second this request then the domestic leader will be required to post the poll.

@Veera: i posted a rulechange proposal in the citizen discussion forum to also contain that idea. maybe we can work out new provincial rules containing exactly that idea :-)

@donsig: well, in fact we decided on NOT doing that a few days ago. and i hate repolling.

Originally posted by disorganizer
@donsig: well, in fact we decided on NOT doing that a few days ago. and i hate repolling.

Who decided that a few days ago? Wasn't me...

If you are referring to the recent poll on provincial borders as *the decision* then why are we discussing this idea since we just *decided* that Bavaria was to be a province not a district. I hate repolling as well but not many citizens seem happy with the decision they just made! :crazyeye:

well, the difference is: we wont change the provincial borders with making it a district, nor repolling the issue, nor changing the rules.
we just dont give it a provincial status.
but leave the borders as they are.
if we maybe get the capitol and the fp city to be governed by the federal government, this may be a nice new touch for the provinces :-P

and if you noticed, we already slipped over the quorum with this one and 75% are for the proposal. well, thats a 3/4 majority!

btw: donsig: we=the populace. i didnt know you were not one of us, but i suspected it ;-P

Just a note that this poll appears to follow all the forms necessary to be official, and is specific enough to be binding, should it pass. Other members of the judiciary may disagree.

Chief Justice Opinion

I concur with the Judge Advocate. This has met all principle necessary portions of the law to be a binding poll. I see no choice but to impliment the results.

This poll has reached quorum, and the results are quite clear.

The Province of Bohemia has been eliminated, and the former area assigned to that province is not under any governor's control. By law then, the control of production in the city of Bavaria passes to the Domestic department.

Bill
Chief Justice

The poll is properly designed and has reached quorum. That does not make it a legal poll when the action it requires is itself not legal according to our rules. We have no provision or definition for districts, nor any provision whatsoever for "undefining" a province.

This poll cannot be put into effect as it relies on rules that do not exist. The ruleset must be modified BEFORE polls on that ruleset can be carried out. I move that this poll be ruled unlawful and therefore of informational value only.

Please also note that in any case this poll is not closed until 48 hours have passed from the time the poll opened.

I agree that the time limit must be observed before the results are declared official. Please see the judicial thread for comments on the legality/illegality of this poll.

I apologize for misreading the time by a few hours. Now this poll has reached quorum and 48 hours.

Bill
Chief Justice

This is absolutely insane! Well, time to pack my things... :(

I'm still fighting for you, Governor.

"Never give up, never surrender!"

Originally posted by Plexus
This is absolutely insane! Well, time to pack my things... :(

Originally posted by Shaitan
I'm still fighting for you, Governor.

"Never give up, never surrender!"

Youre future Lt. Govenor is also fighting for you Plexus.
"Never give up the fight :)".

Well, I am glad that I have people supporting me. Although I fear it may be a lost cause... But have faith, some lost causes work out. Remember those little colonies that broke away to become a world power?

Well, I stepped into this late... but, I would rather see the capital included in a province.. thus option 2. But... not its' own province...

Honestly, I believe that the capital province would just be one more irresponsible governor.

I do agree that it would simply be better to redesign the borders altogether to include Bomhemia in the Bohemian Province.