View Full Version : A New Hope: A Star Wars Mafia Game (Game Thread)


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Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 10:03 AM
What are you talking about, Ras? 4 is one higher than 3. How does that reveal my cunning disguise as Jango Fett? I'm interested in the blaster, but I don't have oodles of money, despite what you may think.

Nictel
May 09, 2010, 10:06 AM
You all obviously haven't ebay-ed that much :P It's all about bidding at the last second. ;)

j65536d
May 09, 2010, 10:11 AM
So whether or not link is scummy we get nothing by all jumping on him, also I can't really see the screen shots (Im to lazy to really work at it). Meanwhile Love I would like some explanation (either in private or public though I would think everyone else should want it to) as to why you have so much strength, it seems you have way to strength to be some boring innocent.

Nictel
May 09, 2010, 10:11 AM
Electrostaff? I want that. Could be handy for fishing.

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 10:14 AM
Oh and for the record, as I already said, I haven't talked to anyone in this game, least of all Niklas. I learnt that doing that was a bad idea from the LotR game!

Lord OST
May 09, 2010, 10:25 AM
LoveLove. Unvote Romanichine, vote Link

Methos
May 09, 2010, 01:08 PM
:hmm: Link Arakhor

Seon
May 09, 2010, 01:17 PM
Love everything.

remake20
May 09, 2010, 01:27 PM
Why is love getting these items? He could be the emperor for all we know.

EDIT: I'm not saying I don't trust them or think he doesn't deserve them, I'm just asking.

Methos
May 09, 2010, 01:35 PM
I agree.
Love

choxorn
May 09, 2010, 01:59 PM
Do weapons stack? As in can you use 17 lightsabers at the same time? :P


That depends. Do you have 17 hands? :p

Seon
May 09, 2010, 02:14 PM
You can telekinetically wield them using the force.

Kennigit
May 09, 2010, 02:21 PM
Well, RRaskolnikov can have a lightsaber.

Nictel
May 09, 2010, 02:36 PM
Apparently Arakhor is a traitor of the Empire and must die. I have been informed he has tried to kill the Emperor.

As in pevergreen is was the Emperor.

CivGeneral
May 09, 2010, 03:56 PM
Unless something else comes up, Arakhor should get the blade of the lightsaber.

Zack
May 09, 2010, 04:02 PM
That's a lynch vote. ;)

CivGeneral
May 09, 2010, 04:04 PM
That's a lynch vote. ;)
No kidding ;). Tis the only way to put down a Sith. Is to be on the receiving end of the lightsaber blade. Not be given another one.

Autolycus
May 09, 2010, 04:29 PM
I'll trust the argument against arakhor, but if he turns up innocent, I'll want some answers. RRRaskolnikov can have a light saber.

Autolycus
May 09, 2010, 04:33 PM
Oh, not all who have money are evil. I for one, am fairly well off but support the rebellion. That said, I will bid Six Credits for the Blaster with which to protect myself.

Seon
May 09, 2010, 04:34 PM
Apparently Arakhor is a traitor of the Empire and must die. I have been informed he has tried to kill the Emperor.

As in pevergreen is was the Emperor.

Wait a second isn't that a GOOD thing?

choxorn
May 09, 2010, 04:36 PM
Vote Tally:

Lynch:
link16: 5 (remake20, Romanichine, Bad Player, landlubber, Lord OST)
Arakhor: 5 (Kennigit, Methos, Nictel, CivGeneral, Autolycus)
Love: 1 (j65536d)
Abstain: 3 (Takhisis, taillesskangaru, Secura)

Lightsaber:
Niklas: 9 (Romanichine, taillesskangaru, Niklas, Nictel, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, Shadowbound)
Double A: 4 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, TheLastOne36, Kennigit)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
remake20: 1 (remake20)
Abstain: 1 (Takhisis)

Lightsaber:
Niklas: 7 (Romanichine, Niklas, Nictel, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura)
Love: 7 (Love, taillesskangaru, Methos, Kennigit, Shadowbound, Lord OST, Seon)
TheForestAuro: 1 (RRRaskolnikov)
remake20: 1 (remake20)
Abstain: 1 (Takhisis)

Lightsaber:
Niklas: 7 (Romanichine, Niklas, Nictel, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, Shadowbound)
RRRaskolnikov: 4 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, Kennigit, Autolycus)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
johnhughthom: 2 (johnhughthom, landlubber)
taillesskangaru: 1 (taillesskangaru)
remake20: 1 (remake20)
Abstain: 1 (Takhisis)

Lightning Staff:
Niklas: 6 (Niklas, Romanichine, Secura, Shadowbound, landlubber, Arakhor)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
Nictel: 1 (Nictel)
Lord OST: 1 (Lord OST)

Blaster Auction Bids:
1 credits from Romanichine
1.0000001 credits from Nictel
2 credits from Bad Player
3 credits from Shadowbound
4 credits from Arakhor
6 credits from Autolycus

SS-18 ICBM
May 09, 2010, 04:36 PM
Nictel must be Empire then. And Jabba has a lot of friends.

Krill
May 09, 2010, 04:46 PM
Role reveal: For those of you that don't trust Niklas, there are other auctioneers out there that are available for use.

Like me, Watto, for example. For those of you that feel that Niklas is not trust worthy of particular items, I am willing to accept them and either provide them to the auction, or gift to a confirmed Innocent for redistribution if they are critical items.

Yes people, I am official siding with the innocents, even though my VC is Money.

Of course, I'm probably going to get killed by a bounty hunter now.

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 04:59 PM
So, now I'm both a Sith and an potential assassin of the Emperor, who is apparently Pevergreen, despite being revealed as one of the lightning staff droids. According to Rrras, I'm also Jango, purely because I want the blaster. Apparently, I also want a lightsabre, despite my specifically stating that I'm not Force Sensitive and that I don't want a lightsabre.

When you've all sorted out why you want me dead, maybe then I can defend myself better :) I will abstain from voting myself.

Shadowbound
May 09, 2010, 05:03 PM
I just think you're Jango, Arekhor.

RRRaskolnikov
May 09, 2010, 05:06 PM
Lightning staff to Kennegit.

Kennigit
May 09, 2010, 05:09 PM
Me for lightning staff

Autolycus
May 09, 2010, 05:19 PM
Choxorn, you missed my six credit bid.

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 05:26 PM
CivGeneral wants to lynch me to stop me getting a lightsabre I haven't asked for. This is clearly ridiculous.

Nictel wants to do me in for being an enemy of the Empire and wanting to kill the Emperor, who he claims is Pevergreen. This is equally ridiculous.

If people think I'm Jango because I have 4 credits to spend and want the blaster, note that Autolycus has 6 credits to spend, which I don't.

Other than that, I'm not sure what else to say in my defence.

Romanichine
May 09, 2010, 05:29 PM
Nictel was surely joking. pevergreen was the MagnaGuard, a bodyguard of General Grievous and he apparently could not win anymore because Grievous was killed on day 1.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Magnaguard

wideyedwanderer
May 09, 2010, 05:34 PM
I vote to lynch Arakhor. I haven't been following the thread very much, but something seems kinda fishy about him... I saw he voted to lynch pever even though pever clearly said he didn't want to play anymore and was killed by WOG. I dunno... just seems really defensive without giving any info. Probably a mafia.

I also vote to give all the items to Krill/Watto.

Kennigit
May 09, 2010, 05:36 PM
I vote to lynch Arakhor. I haven't been following the thread very much, but something seems kinda fishy about him... I saw he voted to lynch pever even though pever clearly said he didn't want to play anymore and was killed by WOG. I dunno... just seems really defensive without giving any info. Probably a mafia.

Understandable mistake. Fett's aren't Mafia. They are bounty hunters.

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 05:37 PM
Voting is compulsory, but wasting a vote on someone you know is going to be zapped is better than voting randomly when you don't know for whom to vote. Why does that make me Mafia?

Kennigit
May 09, 2010, 05:56 PM
Salt shaker to the slug Jabba

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2383/jabbasalted.jpg (http://img243.imageshack.us/i/jabbasalted.jpg/)


Attention those who wish to fight the scum of the universe

Niklas has no intention to help ANY innocent or neutrals. He is under the power of the Sith's and enemy purses. We must not allow any items to go to Niklas. Any Jabba who is not with the town will be against the town. But, as the votes stand now, there is a solid block that is willing to give this scum valuable items (note GM's, this is not my voting) instead of the salt that should be given to him. Think that the Sith wouldn't be willing to kill Jabba once he has items and take all of them? Or threaten to kill him unless he coughs up items to them? Jabba has no means to stop the items from getting into evil hands.

Now, how to we defeat this block of voters that are voting for Jabba for the items? THROUGH SOLIDARITY, MY BRETHREN.

Let the non-Siths of the world UNITE under our STRENGTH.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9088/revolutiuonlightsaber.jpg (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/revolutiuonlightsaber.jpg/)

We will stop jabba from getting these items. Or any other individual from amassing items. DO NOT LET THE MERCHANT BOURGEOISIE (JABBA) CONTROL OUR MEANS OF ITEMS.

Items will belong to the workers of the world! The hard working X-wing fighter polite #4. The padawans who give countless hours of work to the cause of the good. Even the neutrals- the gungans who fight the droid armies of the Sith, the brave souls of Alderaan who were destroyed by the Sith.

NO LONGER SHALL THE DISPOSSESSED BE DISPOSSESSED.

So no, do not simply put all the items in the hand's of the powerful or the rich; do not put all the items in the hands of the Loves or the Jabbas. Let the dispossessed, the itemless, have the items!

The innocents of the world deserve the items! But to defleat the block of Niklas, WE MUST HAVE STRENGTH AND UNITY.

Vote Love the blue lightsaber
Vote RRRaskolnikov the orange lightsaber
Vote Double A the red lightsaber
Vote Kennigit the purple lightning staff

Do not let wealth become concentrated among the axises of evils, or in the hands of the powerful. NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL A CHARACTER SOMEONE IS, THE SOLIDARITY OF THE DISSPOSSESSED WILL OVERCOME.

Do not allow the evils of Arakhor to have the blaster. Note: If anyone is aware of sith scum, Arakhor should be injured from his scuffle with Earthling. That makes him an easy vigilante kill or bounty. If someone has a better target than Jango, the innocent/neutral cause can kill Jango while lynch another.

What will be expected is for Arakhor, in his dying moments before the lynch, to transfer his funds to Boba or some other evil; even Jabba. No, even killing off scum is not enough!

INNOCENT WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6390/innocentworkersofthewor.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/innocentworkersofthewor.jpg/)

Seon
May 09, 2010, 05:59 PM
Whaaaaaaaa~?....

Arakhor
May 09, 2010, 06:09 PM
You are joking, surely?? Read my lips - I am not Mafia and I am certainly not a Sith! If anyone is a Sith, it's likely to be Link.

Why do you want the lightning staff anyway? Do you have some capacity to use it, despite it being a very rare weapon? I love how you choose the notorious smuggler and drug-runner Han Solo as your face-man for the innocent workers of the galaxy.

Nictel
May 09, 2010, 06:14 PM
I disagree. Vote Nictel the purple lightning staff. Also, you sound like a socialist :p

choxorn
May 09, 2010, 06:21 PM
Choxorn, you missed my six credit bid.

Sorry about that, edited.

Zack
May 09, 2010, 06:28 PM
Forgot about the Midday update, whoops. Coming in a minute.

(I guess choxorn's tally could count as it, but since it's supposed to be my job... I shouldn't be lazy and just have choxorn do it for me.)

choxorn
May 09, 2010, 06:30 PM
Just copy my tally and add all the votes from the last page.

Capt Blackadder
May 09, 2010, 06:30 PM
vote link16

Alas my good friend has passed away damn you Imperial Scum.

Damn you ICBM back on the org jokers went out of fashion ages ago so I didn't even think of it.

Zack
May 09, 2010, 06:46 PM
Midday 3


Accusations of bounty hunters and Sith and Imperials flew about in the cantina (as did the liquor and blue milk).


Tally


Lynch

link16: 7 (remake20, Romanichine, Bad Player, landlubber, Lord OST, Capt Blackadder, Arakhor)
Arakhor: 7 (Kennigit, Methos, Nictel, CivGeneral, Autolycus, Shadowbound, wideyedwanderer)
Abstain: 3 (Takhisis, taillesskangaru, Secura)
Love: 1 (j65536d)


Lightsaber

Niklas: 9 (Romanichine, taillesskangaru, Niklas, Nictel, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, Shadowbound)
Double A: 4 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, TheLastOne36, Kennigit)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
remake20: 1 (remake20)


Lightsaber

Niklas: 7 (Romanichine, Niklas, Nictel, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura)
Love: 7 (Love, taillesskangaru, Methos, Kennigit, Shadowbound, Lord OST, Seon)
TheForestAuro: 1 (RRRaskolnikov)
remake20: 1 (remake20)


Lightsaber

Niklas: 7 (Romanichine, Niklas, Nictel, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, Shadowbound)
RRRaskolnikov: 4 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, Kennigit, Autolycus)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
johnhughthom: 2 (johnhughthom, landlubber)
taillesskangaru: 1 (taillesskangaru)
remake20: 1 (remake20)


Lightning Staff
Niklas: 6 (Niklas, Romanichine, Secura, Shadowbound, landlubber, Arakhor)
Kennigit: (Kennigit, RRRaskolnikov)
Love: 2 (Seon, Methos)
Nictel: 1 (Nictel)
Lord OST: 1 (Lord OST)


Blaster Auction Bids

Romanichine: 1 credit
Nictel: 1.0000001 credits (doesn't really count)
Bad Player: 2 credits
Shadowbound: 3 credits
Arakhor: 4 credits
Autolycus: 6 credits



Day will end in approximately 22 hours.

VOTE!
Bid!
Support, too.
Send QuickTopic links to me and choxorn!

Kennigit
May 09, 2010, 08:05 PM
You are joking, surely?? Read my lips - I am not Mafia and I am certainly not a Sith! If anyone is a Sith, it's likely to be Link.

Why do you want the lightning staff anyway? Do you have some capacity to use it, despite it being a very rare weapon? I love how you choose the notorious smuggler and drug-runner Han Solo as your face-man for the innocent workers of the galaxy.

Lol. Han Solo is there just 'cuz not many innocents have died so far; and Han did kind of help destroy the death star.

But I don't think chewy's head fits in as well. And Winston Hughes's character in the movies. I just put up a dead townie.

Also I do believe you aren't Sith. The sith are the mafia.

Anyways,

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7296/ridewithjabba.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/ridewithjabba.jpg/)

the emblem there on maul's shirt is the sith emblem from wookieepedia
Also, my posts are supposed to be humorous. But the points are still valid.

edit- parody picture:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7479/temp1vq.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/temp1vq.jpg/)


Also, I'm willing to change my vote to link if someone proves he is mafia. Mafia is a more important vote than a wounded bounty hunter, that can be vig killed.

Link
May 09, 2010, 08:36 PM
all items to love
lynch vote: Arakhor
amd remake your screenshots prove nothing

Autolycus
May 09, 2010, 09:14 PM
Kennigit may have the lightning staff.
Let us give the red lightsaber to Niklas.

Double A
May 09, 2010, 09:21 PM
Apparently Arakhor is a traitor of the Empire and must die. I have been informed he has tried to kill the Emperor.

As in pevergreen is was the Emperor.

This concerns us WHY?

vote: Nictel

You are joking, surely?? Read my lips - I am not Mafia and I am certainly not a Sith! If anyone is a Sith, it's likely to be Link.

That would prove to be hard, considering we're not in the same room.

Also, have you even HEARD of a Hyrulian mafia/?



I'm kind of partial to believing Keneggit, as it seems the mafia would be richer than the Republic, and definitely more rich than the Rebels.

Want proof?

Ok, I have two examples for ya.

http://almostnot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/deathstar.jpg
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-4/death-star.jpg

And Jabba said himself he's nothing but a money-loving slug.

However, right now it would probably be better to watch him than to dump salt on him. He may disprove suspicion, and help us out.

Lord OST
May 10, 2010, 01:20 AM
Love
Double A
RRRaskolnikov
Kennigit

For solidarity :goodjob:

@Autolycus: When you vote the staff for Kennigit it seems like your on his team, for solidarity against Jabba. But then you give the red sword to Niklas. Would you like to explain why?

Edit:
@Those who added me but been declined: Sorry, made a mistake. Plz add me again.

Zack: Small mistake, I didnt vote the staff for myself.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 03:47 AM
Love
Double A
RRRaskolnikov
Kennigit

Someone has asked me what my role is about - basically, I am another version of jabba, but with no bounty hunter connections whatsoever. I have several items that I can auction, that will be useful to anyone, but I have no connections to anyone else in this game.

While Watto in the films had a connection to Anakin, in game there is no connection between Watto and Anakin.

Niklas however, is definitely not in league with the innocents. Money loving slug would be a correct example...

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 04:12 AM
I would imagine that some of you who aren't riding the bandwagon for my lynch were disturbed by the fact that I appear to be rich by paying 4 credits for the blaster. I started with 4 credits and I wanted the blaster to protect myself. Not that I'm trying to hurt Autolycus' chances here, but he clearly has more money than me, as he is currently voting 6 credits for the blaster.

To put it bluntly, voting for me means another vote taken away from hunting down the Sith, who threaten all our lives.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 04:33 AM
{ OOC: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kennigit, you made my day! I'll respond in good order, never fear. ;) }

Nictel
May 10, 2010, 05:21 AM
Love
Double A
RRRaskolnikov
Kennigit

No Ewoks were harmed making this vote.

Kennigit
May 10, 2010, 05:44 AM
I would imagine that some of you who aren't riding the bandwagon for my lynch were disturbed by the fact that I appear to be rich by paying 4 credits for the blaster. I started with 4 credits and I wanted the blaster to protect myself. Not that I'm trying to hurt Autolycus' chances here, but he clearly has more money than me, as he is currently voting 6 credits for the blaster.

To put it bluntly, voting for me means another vote taken away from hunting down the Sith, who threaten all our lives.

Praise do tell us who the sith are. We are all most curious.

You also immediately voted yourself for the blaster. Then Niklas pointed out it was not a vote. So eager for a new bounty hunter weapon that you cannot even wait to go through the auction process :p?

Also, it seems above posters used wrong color schemes for purple staff. The effects of copy and pasting at their finest.

Remember all innocents/neutrals/even siths that do not want bounty hunters: Jango should be injured during this night phase. We do not have to lynch him- he is a fairly certain vigilante kill.

As for my vote, I'm keeping it with Arakhor, but I do not have internet access until the evening/night (most likely after the update). But if the innocent/neutral cause does have definitive proof of a sith to lynch, let the votes be changed in the day. The important thing is to be strong together!

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2215/destroythismadbrute.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/destroythismadbrute.jpg/)

(eventually destroy him; for now there are bigger slugs to salt- jabba may be the center of bounty hunters, but if a sith is found the sith shall perish in a lynch. Or otherwise, destroying the powerful bounty hunter Jango is a good idea)

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 05:52 AM
That was nice of you to indicate that my posting error makes me scum and everyone else's cut-and-paste error is simply carelessness. That really helps my case :)

Lord OST
May 10, 2010, 06:03 AM
Nice propanganda posters :) Could you post the original too?

Kennigit
May 10, 2010, 06:04 AM
That was nice of you to indicate that my posting error makes me scum and everyone else's cut-and-paste error is simply carelessness. That really helps my case :)

Always willing to help a comrade out!

But, hopefully some people recognize the tone of my posts to be more...humourous. The tone of your posts strikes me as "I'm Jango and i'm going to die tonight!"

Just a note too: In the past, I myself was fooled by the tomfoolery of SS-18 ICBM. I missed the opportunity to salt the slug Niklas that night. The innocents/innocent favouring neutrals cannot be fractured any longer! We must unite under a common cause!

The enemy- the sith- are united. They have their quicktopic links and their masonic starts to foster their bonds. But what of the innocents? They must carefully find each other out- ever cautious to reveal who they are- lest they become a target for the sith and for the bounty hunters. Even the bounty hunters are joining together- Boba and Jango, father and cloned-son, work to collect bounties together.

But let it be known that to every innocent, and to every innocent-favouring neutral, the cause is behind you. Alone you are one man (or woman, Leia). But together we are strong!

edit @ Lord OSt: just google "destroy this mad brute". I think the ape thing was referring to the prussians/germans or something (I think it was WWI).

Secura
May 10, 2010, 06:39 AM
Just changing my decision regarding one of the lightsabers from Niklas to RRRaskolnikov.

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 06:41 AM
Regardless of my identity, I know how to count, Kennegit :)

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 07:38 AM
Edit: Nm ten char

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 07:40 AM
What evidence is there against Arakor? Link16 seems like a much better option because he 1) Lurks more and 2) Has the chat log evidence appearing to show him as mafia and 3) he hasn't defended himself from accusations of being mafia.

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 08:04 AM
As I said to someone who PM'd me asking for me to vote them the lightsaber - DO NOT VOTE SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A CONFIRMED INNOCENT A LIGHTSABER.

If we give Jabba the lightsabers then we get an extra night to decide who gets the lightsabers!

If we decide that Player X is suspicious, even if they do get the lightsaber in an auction - WE LYNCH THEM UNLESS THEY GIVE IT BACK! I.e. Money means sweet FA in the face of an angry lynch mob!!!


Give the (presumable) scanner/s another night to work out a core of innocents and give the sabers to Jabba - then we decide who should have them (see above)!

Nictel
May 10, 2010, 08:07 AM
DO NOT VOTE SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A CONFIRMED INNOCENT A LIGHTSABER.

Isn't this contradicting to you saying to vote the lightsabers to Jabba? :p

RRRaskolnikov
May 10, 2010, 08:15 AM
^^ Yes :)

edit: @Bad Player, it would be cool that you realise also that mafias do vote for lynchs, and are the only one to kill at night. There are sometimes innocent with vigilante kill abilities, but be sure that TIME BENEFITS TO MAFIA. Please change your argumentation.

Methos
May 10, 2010, 08:29 AM
Previous vote of everything to Love

Vote Love the blue lightsaber
Vote RRRaskolnikov the orange lightsaber
Vote Double A the red lightsaber
Vote Kennigit the purple lightning staff

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 08:30 AM
Isn't this contradicting to you saying to vote the lightsabers to Jabba? :p

Well, essentially they would be on loan to Jabba for one night. ;)

Then once more scanning and planning has taken place, the confirmed innocents can decide who can be trusted with them!

Krill
May 10, 2010, 08:33 AM
No, they wouldn't, Niklas could give them out at night to Mafia. Innocents could do nothing about it. Once they are given to Jabba they are out of Innocent control. Giving them to Jabba is a stupid idea, so why the hell are you suggesting that?! Makes me wonder...

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 08:34 AM
^^ Yes :)

edit: @Bad Player, it would be cool that you realise also that mafias do vote for lynchs, and are the only one to kill at night. There are sometimes innocent with vigilante kill abilities, but be sure that TIME BENEFITS TO MAFIA. Please change your argumentation.

Time won't benefit the mafia in terms of who gets lightsabers. If noone gets the sabers tonight then the mafia are guaranteed of not getting a saber tonight! If ppl die tonight it will not affect distribution of sabers to confirmed innocents - that's completely irrelevant to the safety of the sabers.

By the next night we should have more confirmed innocents and then they can take the sabers and keep them safe! We have no confirmed innocents tonight - therefore the sabers must be kept safe for another night until we do have confirmed innocents!

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 08:35 AM
No, they wouldn't, Niklas could give them out at night to Mafia. Innocents could do nothing about it. Once they are given to Jabba they are out of Innocent control. Giving them to Jabba is a stupid idea, so why the hell are you suggesting that?! Makes me wonder...

If that happened could a Sith use it that night?

Krill
May 10, 2010, 08:37 AM
Yes, according to previous games...and it could be used again the night afterwards, if Niklas claims that they were stolen by a Sith thief.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 08:41 AM
Really, it's why I've not asked for any items as of yet. I have a money VC, so I am not trustworthy by either side. You should not vote any important items to me unless you have no choice, and then I should immediately give them over to a random person specified previously.

This would not allow me to auction them, thus depriving me of any gold towards my VC. So Niklas and myself have absolutely no reason to be trusted by the innocents, we can not work together with the voted items. Neither of us should be trusted, remember that.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 09:22 AM
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7560/jabbathehutt.png
Friends, you are being duped. You are being fed pure propaganda in its most pure form, an artform that Kennigit clearly has mastered. Yet it is not hard to see through his attempts, if you know how to look.

First of all, the truth. I do not consort with bounty hunters. I have no idea who the Fetts are, and I have no means to contact them that isn't already available to everyone - by putting up bounties for them to collect. Yet I'm the one least likely to do so - I value my money, and I have absolutely no interest seeing the bounty hunters grow rich on my expense. Any attempts to pair me up with bounty hunters is simply lies and propaganda. Any attempts to pair me up with Sith is even worse lies. It's all Earthling and his strawmen all over again. Use your own common sense, and you will see this attempt for what it is.

Attention those who wish to fight the scum of the universe
Here it begins. All propaganda starts with an obvious call that no one would say no to, to make you all feel chosen. Who would say no to the question above? Not even me!

Niklas has no intention to help ANY innocent or neutrals. He is under the power of the Sith's and enemy purses.
Pure lies. I do help the innocent cause, by making everything transparent (don't tell me I need to explain that word to you as well?). That's the way I can help out best. That way there's no chance for any cabals forming around item distribution, cabals that can be easily infiltrated by the Sith, bounty hunters, Jar Jar Binkses and George knows what! If you haven't yet seen a pro-town network get corrupted, obviously this must be your first mafia game.

Transparency is the only way! Otherwise you vote to have power taken out of your hands, to let a select few decide what's good for you and good for the game, a select few that will be corrupted and infiltrated, don't doubt that for a second!

For those of you that feel that Niklas is not trust worthy of particular items, I am willing to accept them and either provide them to the auction, or gift to a confirmed Innocent for redistribution if they are critical items.
This is exactly the kind of rhetorics I'm talking about. Doesn't that sound just great, giving items to a "confirmed innocent"? Well, I'll tell you what, Earthling was a confirmed innocent, in fact the only one we've had so far. Do you think Earthling would have done a good job distributing items to the right places? Clearly not. He would have given the items to those who were sucking up to him the most, and lying to him the best, hiding their true motivations. Infiltration galore, and the items you voted would safely end up in just the hands you tried to keep them away from. The ONLY way to avoid this is COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY! And that's what I provide.

We must not allow any items to go to Niklas. Any Jabba who is not with the town will be against the town.
"If you aren't with us you're against us!" Any 4-year old knows that's the worst kind of propaganda. And in this case it couldn't be more false. With me, you know exactly where your items end up. With Watto, you have no idea. He's neutral, I'm neutral, the only difference between us is that he claims (in fancy words) that he is better than you at deciding where items should go. Sure he says that he sides with the innocents. That's propaganda too! Any argument that I'm not innocent applies equally well to Watto.

But, as the votes stand now, there is a solid block that is willing to give this scum valuable items (note GM's, this is not my voting) instead of the salt that should be given to him.
Note the use of the word "scum" - that's called negative association, and is part of the strawman Kennigit is cleverly building up. I'm not scum, I'm the most honest player in the game. I promise full openness and honesty. Kennigit however is bending the truth quite heavily in order to discredit me.

Think that the Sith wouldn't be willing to kill Jabba once he has items and take all of them? Or threaten to kill him unless he coughs up items to them? Jabba has no means to stop the items from getting into evil hands.
Sure I do. I'm protected so I don't fear Sith killers. I have the means to protect the items given to me. Does Watto? This is pure slander.

Now, how to we defeat this block of voters that are voting for Jabba for the items? THROUGH SOLIDARITY, MY BRETHREN.

Let the non-Siths of the world UNITE under our STRENGTH.
Right. Read "I don't have any real arguments so I'm resorting to shouting the loudest". First it's solidarity, all innocents are created equal, nice and dandy. But if you read the fine print, you see that some innocents are more equal than others, and they will be the ones calling the shots. And they are hoping that enough of you will just follow in line like good sheep, letting the pigs run the farm since "they know what's best for you". Do you have any reason to trust Watto/Krill? Kennigit? One is a known neutral, like myself. The other is a complete unknown who claims that Watto is better than Jabba simply because Jabba won't let him run the show.

We will stop jabba from getting these items. Or any other individual from amassing items. DO NOT LET THE MERCHANT BOURGEOISIE (JABBA) CONTROL OUR MEANS OF ITEMS.
This quote is really interesting. Who is it that wants to control your means of items? Who is it that wants to distribute the items as they see fit? I am not controlling your means of items, I am providing a service that helps the innocents by ensuring transparency. No chance for any nepotism, "you scratch my back I scratch yours", that you get in the sauna club that Kennigit and Krill are trying to establish.

JABBA MEANS FREE MARKET - WATTO MEANS STALINISM!

Hey look, I can shout too.

Items will belong to the workers of the world! The hard working X-wing fighter polite #4. The padawans who give countless hours of work to the cause of the good. Even the neutrals- the gungans who fight the droid armies of the Sith, the brave souls of Alderaan who were destroyed by the Sith.
Yes yes, that's what the propaganda says, sounds good doesn't it? But in reality it will be none of these people who end up with the items.

So no, do not simply put all the items in the hand's of the powerful or the rich; do not put all the items in the hands of the Loves or the Jabbas. Let the dispossessed, the itemless, have the items!
Hmm, so Love is not to have any items, yet only a few lines further down you vote him a lightsaber? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Kennigit is saying what he's saying only to further his own interest, hoping enough of you will fall for it.

Vote Love the blue lightsaber
Vote RRRaskolnikov the orange lightsaber
Vote Double A the red lightsaber
Vote Kennigit the purple lightning staff
Take a very good look at what he proposes here. Why did he pick the people he picked? Are they known innocents? Are they more worthy than you to have an item? What do you know about them at all? Kennigit is clever, he picked Love, RRRaskolnikov and Double A on the sole basis that they were the runner-ups for votes, those with the best chance to win the vote against me. And then he throws in his own name for one item. HMMMM!

KENNIGIT DOESN'T CARE WHO GETS THE ITEMS AS LONG AS HE CAN SNEAK ONE FOR HIMSELF!

That's the only truth. Don't be fooled by his propaganda about solidarity, it's all a show. You know nothing about any of these people. Is Kennigit a Sith? You don't know! Is Double A a bounty hunter? You have no idea! Love killed General Grevious so he's clearly not Sith. Does that make him innocent, or does his strength to overcome Grevious actually suggest he is a bounty hunter too? You don't know!

Do not let wealth become concentrated among the axises of evils, or in the hands of the powerful. NO MATTER HOW POWERFUL A CHARACTER SOMEONE IS, THE SOLIDARITY OF THE DISSPOSSESSED WILL OVERCOME.
Is it better to be poor in a free market, giving everyone equal chances, or under a stalinist rule, where only the Politburo ever have a chance?

And Jabba said himself he's nothing but a money-loving slug.

However, right now it would probably be better to watch him than to dump salt on him. He may disprove suspicion, and help us out.
Yes yes, indeed, I AM a money-loving slug. Or Hutt really, but I'll let that pass. But you have a point though. I am aware that being neutral is not the easiest way to make friends. That's why I have promised FULL HONESTY AND FULL TRANSPARENCY! Yes, I'm even asking you to watch me, to ensure I'm dealing fairly!

For solidarity :goodjob:
:clap: :clap: :clap: You're a good little sheep, just fall in line and let the Politburo call the shots. This is exactly what they want, to have you think that you're helping the innocent cause, when all you're really helping is THEM.



Someone has asked me what my role is about - basically, I am another version of jabba, but with no bounty hunter connections whatsoever. I have several items that I can auction, that will be useful to anyone, but I have no connections to anyone else in this game.
Strawman again. I HAVE NO BOUNTY HUNTER CONNECTIONS EITHER! We're basically the same thing, Watto and me. The difference is in our actions - I have promised full honesty, openness and transparency. Watto promises you a Politburo.

While Watto in the films had a connection to Anakin, in game there is no connection between Watto and Anakin.
Huh, imagine that? JUST LIKE ME AND THE BOUNTY HUNTERS THEN! What a coincidence!

Niklas however, is definitely not in league with the innocents. Money loving slug would be a correct example...
Krill is hiding behind fancy words, claiming to be pro-innocent just to make you listen to him. The truth is he's no different from me, just less honest.

DON'T FALL FOR THE FANCY LIES - FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM!

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 09:25 AM
No, they wouldn't, Niklas could give them out at night to Mafia. Innocents could do nothing about it. Once they are given to Jabba they are out of Innocent control. Giving them to Jabba is a stupid idea, so why the hell are you suggesting that?!
This is pure lies. If I were to give any of the items I receive to the mafia, you would obviously lynch me. This is why I've promised full transparency to begin with. Any items that come my way WILL be auctioned. If that didn't happen, I wouldn't expect to survive until sundown. Hence, giving the items to me is the ONLY way you can be absolutely certain that they don't end up in mafia hands.

You're trying to make it sound like something different, when in fact all you're interested in is slandering me.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 09:26 AM
:run: :run: :run: It's turning into an OT political debate! Run! :run: :run: :run:

Krill
May 10, 2010, 09:27 AM
You want the items, and I've already stated that I don't want them, but will have them as a last resort.

I'm certainly not trustworthy, but neither are you Niklas, which is exactly why you are asking to be watched. A con artist like you could probably come up with a hundred ways of moving items around behind an auction for extra gold, and not doing what you promised. OOC: Your reputation is much deserved.

Safer to just not give you anything and for both of us to sit out the main battle on the sidelines. Only problem, you won't be making much gold if you do that...wonder just how annoying that would be ;)

Hence, giving the items to me is the ONLY way you can be absolutely certain that they don't end up in mafia hands.

Any auction gives the Mafia a chance to get an item without a vote. If you wanted to be absolutely certain that the Mafia didn't get an item, you'd never auction it. never mind that you could give a description of an item, of its' actions to anyone that wanted it, confirmed innocent or not. That should sit well with the Town...

What was that about Transparency Niklas?

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 09:37 AM
Really, it's why I've not asked for any items as of yet. I have a money VC, so I am not trustworthy by either side. You should not vote any important items to me unless you have no choice, and then I should immediately give them over to a random person specified previously.

This would not allow me to auction them, thus depriving me of any gold towards my VC. So Niklas and myself have absolutely no reason to be trusted by the innocents, we can not work together with the voted items. Neither of us should be trusted, remember that.
Yes, do remember that. Neither of us should be trusted, but the same goes for everyone else in the game. Trust NO ONE, because you don't know their true motivations. Definitely don't trust someone who says they know better than you to where the items should be distributed.

I am the safest alternative, simply because I have stated openly EXACTLY what I intend to do with the items I receive in this way. I have no personal vested interest in it, I will take no share of the money given by the auction for my own. And on top of that, by voting the items to me you also get a share of the money.

RRRaskolnikov will have you believe that those money won't do any good in the end. On the contrary, if enough innocents vote me the items then the money from their sale will also flow to the innocents! If any items are purchased by the mafia, this will have the side effect that the money they spend on doing so end up with the innocents. Think about it. Even if the mafia try to blend in by also voting me items, the money going their way will be a small portion of the overall money dealt out. And if an innocent purchases an item - the money she pays will end up being redistributed back among the innocents!

You and only you have the power in your own hands to make the market work for the innocents. The free market is a tool for freedom and for the rebellion. A closed market is only good for those with power.

CHOOSE FREE MARKET OVER STALINISM!

I should make myself some posters too...

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 09:38 AM
Oh Krill, come on! Niklas asks to be watched to be prove he is being honest and you claim that this proves he is untrustworthy. Welcome to the One True Scotsman - an argument you can simply never win.

I have a similar request - assuming I survive tonight, there is a simple way to prove whether or not I'm a bounty hunter. Since Rrras is assuming that all bounty hunters must be wealthy and thus must be obsessed with money, why not post a bounty that any bounty hunter would be stupid to ignore? When I don't go for it, then clearly I'm not a bounty hunter. That's just as much proof as is already laid against me.

Oh, but of course, to lay a bounty, you need to have money in the first place. Someone had lots of money to throw away on Earthling and whomever else and it certainly wasn't me, with my 4 credits and no blaster. So either there are wealthy innocents out there or the Mafia don't care whom they bounty.

(On a side note, can we applaud Niklas for his masterful display of debating tactics?)

remake20
May 10, 2010, 09:45 AM
What evidence is there against Arakor? Link16 seems like a much better option because he 1) Lurks more and 2) Has the chat log evidence appearing to show him as mafia and 3) he hasn't defended himself from accusations of being mafia.

Bump this post.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 09:47 AM
You want the items, and I've already stated that I don't want them, but will have them as a last resort.

I'm certainly not trustworthy, but neither are you Niklas, which is exactly why you are asking to be watched. A con artist like you could probably come up with a hundred ways of moving items around behind an auction for extra gold, and not doing what you promised. OOC: Your reputation is much deserved.

Safer to just not give you anything and for both of us to sit out the main battle on the sidelines. Only problem, you won't be making much gold if you do that...wonder just how annoying that would be ;)
I won't make any money anyway, that's the whole point! All money from these auctions will go right back to the ones that voted me the items. Your slander about how I will behave scummily once the items are in my hands is just that - slander. I have promised full transparency, and full transparency you will have. I'm not asking to be trusted implicitly - I realize I couldn't do this without also promising transparency in all things. All I'm saying is that with me you get a chance to turn the item voting into something that is useful for the innocent cause. What you (or rather Kennigit) are suggesting is that everyone should trust some people to have the items just cause you said so. How is that better??

It's ironic that I'm actually the one fighting for innocent interests here, despite being neutral.

Any auction gives the Mafia a chance to get an item without a vote. If you wanted to be absolutely certain that the Mafia didn't get an item, you'd never auction it. never mind that you could give a description of an item, of its' actions to anyone that wanted it, confirmed innocent or not. That should sit well with the Town...
Are you suggesting that it would be bad for town that item descriptions are made public? That's a scummy thing to say - openness can only help the innocents. Sure I could hoard all items, that way they never end up with the mafia. I doubt anyone would actually prefer that.

Yes, an auction means a chance that a mafia will buy the item. But if he does so, at least his money will end up with the innocents, via me. Just voting the item to someone random (such as Love, RRRaskolnikov, Double A and Kennigit) means chances are good that some mafia will end up with an item without even having to pay for it!

What was that about Transparency Niklas?
Yes, transparency. It's your salvation, or rather that of the innocents. You claiming otherwise just shows you're only out to slander me.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 09:52 AM
Yes, do remember that. Neither of us should be trusted, but the same goes for everyone else in the game. Trust NO ONE, because you don't know their true motivations. Definitely don't trust someone who says they know better than you to where the items should be distributed.

On the other hand, prophet cabals tend to exist and generally do know what to do better than the average player. Sure, don't trust them, but you should be mindful of that fact.


I am the safest alternative, simply because I have stated openly EXACTLY what I intend to do with the items I receive in this way. I have no personal vested interest in it, I will take no share of the money given by the auction for my own. And on top of that, by voting the items to me you also get a share of the money.

So while you have no vested interest in selling the items, you also have no vested interests in where they go. So it doesn't matter if they go to the Mafia in your opinion?


RRRaskolnikov will have you believe that those money won't do any good in the end. On the contrary, if enough innocents vote me the items then the money from their sale will also flow to the innocents! If any items are purchased by the mafia, this will have the side effect that the money they spend on doing so end up with the innocents. Think about it. Even if the mafia try to blend in by also voting me items, the money going their way will be a small portion of the overall money dealt out. And if an innocent purchases an item - the money she pays will end up being redistributed back among the innocents!

You and only you have the power in your own hands to make the market work for the innocents. The free market is a tool for freedom and for the rebellion. A closed market is only good for those with power.

What is money used for again? Hiring bounty hunters, and buying items in an auction. If there are no auctions, then the only use for money is to hire bounty hunters. Gotta be a good use of vigilante killers for hire to the innocents, especially when you can get items for free, so have more to spend on getting the vigilante killers used on the suspected scum.


CHOOSE STALINISM LOVING SOCIALISM OVER CORRUPT CAPITALISM!

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 10:10 AM
On the other hand, prophet cabals tend to exist and generally do know what to do better than the average player. Sure, don't trust them, but you should be mindful of that fact.
Yes, prophet cabals can exist. But in the majority of cases they are just asking to be infiltrated. I've seen it happen too many times.

So while you have no vested interest in selling the items, you also have no vested interests in where they go. So it doesn't matter if they go to the Mafia in your opinion?
You try to put words in my mouth. I have no vested interest in where the items end up, i.e. I get no money from it either way. But innocents are more likely to play nice with the items, hence I personally prefer that they end up in innocent hands. But I don't presume to mix my role as merchant with trying to use that for power. I don't know best who should have the items, and neither do you. By selling them, you ensure that the mafia will at least have to spend money to get their hands on the items. That's money that cannot be used to put out bounties on known innocents.

What is money used for again? Hiring bounty hunters, and buying items in an auction. If there are no auctions, then the only use for money is to hire bounty hunters. Gotta be a good use of vigilante killers for hire to the innocents, especially when you can get items for free, so have more to spend on getting the vigilante killers used on the suspected scum.
Yes, indeed. If the mafia can get items without having to pay for them, such as by random voting, they will have all their money left to put up bounties with. What would you prefer they spend their money on? Items, in which case the money is redistributed to the innocents? Or bounties on known and powerful innocents?

DON'T BUY THE SLANDER - JABBA MEANS HONESTY AND FREEDOM!

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 10:26 AM
What evidence is there against Arakor? Link16 seems like a much better option because he 1) Lurks more and 2) Has the chat log evidence appearing to show him as mafia and 3) he hasn't defended himself from accusations of being mafia.
Not to disrupt the ongoing mercantile dispute between Krill and Niklas, but it's either Link's life on the line or mine. He's the one's who's been lurking and the one who's not yet defended himself and yet I'm the one been accused by so-called evidence, people not even reading the thread and blatant rides on the bandwagon.

I thought it was usual practice to lynch people who barely play, rather than the active ones. Link definitely falls into the first category, whereas I am clearly in the second.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 10:26 AM
I won't make any money anyway, that's the whole point! All money from these auctions will go right back to the ones that voted me the items. Your slander about how I will behave scummily once the items are in my hands is just that - slander. I have promised full transparency, and full transparency you will have. I'm not asking to be trusted implicitly - I realize I couldn't do this without also promising transparency in all things. All I'm saying is that with me you get a chance to turn the item voting into something that is useful for the innocent cause. What you (or rather Kennigit) are suggesting is that everyone should trust some people to have the items just cause you said so. How is that better??

So we just trust the market that the items end up with innocents? ;) Nice idea, but I can see that not working for the innocents all that well. That is why transparency is moot. You can help Mafia by giving them any and all information on the items that fall into your lap (do slugs have laps?) and giving them all of this extra information is not in the innocents best interests.

oh, I forgot the slander. Niklas, you are scum.



It's ironic that I'm actually the one fighting for innocent interests here, despite being neutral.

Not doing a good job of it then, and with Jabba I will always wonder what he is planning...


Are you suggesting that it would be bad for town that item descriptions are made public? That's a scummy thing to say - openness can only help the innocents. Sure I could hoard all items, that way they never end up with the mafia. I doubt anyone would actually prefer that.

Scenario: You find an item that the Mafia want. You give them a true description, and create a new public description for the item that you post here. The Mafia then buy the item (and they will benefit from you gifting them gold if they voted the item to you...so they are playing a subsidised price on the item itself) and the public never find out that they have been had.

Again, the idea of transparency is bollocks, the system you want to use doesn't work. Why is that, scum? ;)


Yes, an auction means a chance that a mafia will buy the item. But if he does so, at least his money will end up with the innocents, via me. Just voting the item to someone random (such as Love, RRRaskolnikov, Double A and Kennigit) means chances are good that some mafia will end up with an item without even having to pay for it!

They aren't going to have to pay for it fully anyway, and depending on the votes...and see above for the other problems.


Yes, transparency. It's your salvation, or rather that of the innocents. You claiming otherwise just shows you're only out to slander me.

Scum scum scum scum. And not very good at seeing "flaws" in your plan, either.

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 10:27 AM
And what system are you using, Krill? You've claimed you're not trustworthy. yet you're spending an awful lot of time attempting to destroy Niklas. Why, I wonder?

Krill
May 10, 2010, 10:33 AM
Yes, prophet cabals can exist. But in the majority of cases they are just asking to be infiltrated. I've seen it happen too many times.

Fearmongering :b: Trust your local gangsta to tell you how to play the game when he has already admitted that he is untrustworthy.


You try to put words in my mouth. I have no vested interest in where the items end up, i.e. I get no money from it either way. But innocents are more likely to play nice with the items, hence I personally prefer that they end up in innocent hands. But I don't presume to mix my role as merchant with trying to use that for power. I don't know best who should have the items, and neither do you. By selling them, you ensure that the mafia will at least have to spend money to get their hands on the items. That's money that cannot be used to put out bounties on known innocents.

Yes, indeed. If the mafia can get items without having to pay for them, such as by random voting, they will have all their money left to put up bounties with. What would you prefer they spend their money on? Items, in which case the money is redistributed to the innocents? Or bounties on known and powerful innocents?

Especially when they can kill the known innocents anyway, what is it that they are going to use money on...oh. If the innocents are protected, then it doesn't matter either way if they get attacked by bounty hunters or by the Sith.


DON'T BUY THE SLANDER TRUTH - WATTO IS GIVING IT AWAY FOR FREE!

Krill
May 10, 2010, 10:37 AM
And what system are you using, Krill? You've claimed you're not trustworthy. yet you're spending an awful lot of time attempting to destroy Niklas. Why, I wonder?

I'm claiming that myself and Niklas should not be given any items whatsoever, and should stay the hell out of holding any auctions. The same is true of anyone that has a Money VC. We are not Mafia, our aims are not to beat the Innocents, but we are not exactly trying to support the Innocents either.

Those with the Money VC will be quite happy to betray one side if it means we are more likely to win our own VC and will not have any comeback against us (ie get lynched or vigilante/mafia killed). We just are not worth trusting with anything.

Except that we will squabble amongst ourselves ;)

SS-18 ICBM
May 10, 2010, 10:38 AM
Is there a third option out there?

Also, I demand more propaganda posters. :p

RRRaskolnikov
May 10, 2010, 10:47 AM
Is Khazaar around?

Krill
May 10, 2010, 10:49 AM
Is there a third option out there?

Also, I demand more propaganda posters. :p

The third option would be to lynch Jabba and Watto, but I'd prefer it if we didn't do that :p

Lord OST
May 10, 2010, 11:08 AM
I do believe you, Niklas, with your honesty and transparency. It seems great. If someone whos bought the item uses it in wrong way, we lynch him. But why do you do this when you dont get anything for it?
Still I believe that the mafia got a lot of money (they could afford the Deathstars as we've seen) and then the items will go to them. They will also possibly get lots of the money back by voting the items to you.

We want (stalinism "outlined") socialism, not (free market "outlined") corruption.
(The "we" refers at least to myself)
(How do I outline stuff?)

Questions:
Niklas@ What do you earn through this?
Niklas@ Why do you repeat yourself all the time?
Why dont we get any more cool propaganda posters?

Methos
May 10, 2010, 11:27 AM
It's ironic that I'm actually the one fighting for innocent interests here, despite being neutral.

This isn't true, as stated by yourself:

2:03:11 PM Methos: but you don't care about helping us win
2:03:18 PM Niklas: indeed I don't
2:03:25 PM Niklas: but lynching me won't help you win either
2:03:46 PM Niklas: in fact, keeping me alive *might* help you win

How can you say publicly that you're fighting for the innocent interests, yet then state the above privately?

I also like this one, though as I state in our convo, its what I expected:

2:00:51 PM Methos: so who do you find suspicious?
2:01:16 PM Niklas: why should I care?
2:01:35 PM Methos: thats the answer I expected


Edit: This conversation took place yesterday.

johnhughthom
May 10, 2010, 11:59 AM
Vote: Link16

I'll change if we hear something from you.


Unvote: Myself for lightsaber
Vote Niklas the blue lightsaber
Vote Niklas the orange lightsaber
Vote Niklas the red lightsaber
Vote Niklas the purple lightning staff

I'm willing to give Jabba a chance to see if he stands by his words.

Owen Glyndwr
May 10, 2010, 12:00 PM
Well, it appears we have two neutral, and not too sure how many innocents.

I say we go the way of Solomon, i.e.:
Red Lightsaber to Niklas
Orange Lightsaber to Niklas
Blue Lightsaber to Krill
Purple Lightsaber to Krill

I am going to go ahead and abstain from voting, because there is no one imparticular that strikes me as mafia, and I'm much to afraid of a vote becoming A TRAP as it did last time.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 12:00 PM
So we just trust the market that the items end up with innocents? ;)
We can trust the market just as much or more than we can trust random voting. At least with the market, the mafia would have to spend cash to get access to items. With random voting, they just have to make a post saying "Oh, btw, I would like one of them gimmicks there" and hope that enough pile on, pure random. Preferably with some "I scratch your back" voting of the other items to someone else, with subsequent reciprocation from the other voter.

Nice idea, but I can see that not working for the innocents all that well. That is why transparency is moot. You can help Mafia by giving them any and all information on the items that fall into your lap (do slugs have laps?) and giving them all of this extra information is not in the innocents best interests.
You accuse me of fear-mongering, yet this is precisely that (and slander too). Your whole argument revolves around the idea that I would have anything to gain by working with the mafia. Well, wake up, I don't.

Scenario: You find an item that the Mafia want. You give them a true description, and create a new public description for the item that you post here. The Mafia then buy the item (and they will benefit from you gifting them gold if they voted the item to you...so they are playing a subsidised price on the item itself) and the public never find out that they have been had.
And I gain... what? Presumably in your universe the mafia would pay me for such a service, enough that I would bother risking my merchant integrity and my life, thus paying a lot more than they would have by just buying it in the first place. I simply wouldn't be interested. I doubt you would either, yet you're trying to make it all sound as if it was a done deal I would act this way. No way I would, there isn't enough credits in this game (or universe) to make it worthwhile.

And this also presumes that the mafia would actually reveal to me in the first place. If you don't expect innocents to reveal to me, why would you expect the mafia to? You're only trying to associate me with the mafia side by repeating that I'm scum, when in fact I'm not.

You're just miffed that I got the idea to go public first.

Again, the idea of transparency is bollocks, the system you want to use doesn't work.
Not true. Voting items to random individuals does not work, then you have no control whatsoever. With my system and transparency, you have some amount of control. No, it's not fool-proof, the mafia can still get hold of items by outbidding everyone else. But at least then it will cost them.

In fact, all you do is tell me why my system doesn't work, not pointing out what should be done instead. You're picking at small details of my system, but conveniently fail to mention that no completely perfect system exists. The only alternative at this point is random voting, which is far far worse that what I propose. Or did you actually have something better in mind?

Do you truly consider Love, RRRaskolnikov, Double A and Kennigit all confirmed innocents that are worthy of being voted items? I can possibly see the case for Love, even if that's not set in stone, as I mentioned earlier. The answer is obvious - they are not, you're just happy to vote them items solely to keep them out of my hands, for fear I will outdo you.

And not very good at seeing "flaws" in your plan, either.
Right back at you! Oh wait, I forgot, you don't even HAVE a plan! Unless you call random voting a "plan"...

Trust your local gangsta to tell you how to play the game when he has already admitted that he is untrustworthy.
I am neither gangsta nor untrustworthy. In fact I'm more worthy of trust than most others at this point, simply because I've put myself in a position to

Especially when they can kill the known innocents anyway, what is it that they are going to use money on...oh. If the innocents are protected, then it doesn't matter either way if they get attacked by bounty hunters or by the Sith.
Are you truly suggesting that we're going to win this game by having all the innocents protected?? Wow, if you can come up with a scheme that ensures that, why, congratulations! Everything you say seems to paint a rosy picture about a reality that simply doesn't, and can never, exist. I deal with realities, not fairy tales.

I'm claiming that myself and Niklas should not be given any items whatsoever, and should stay the hell out of holding any auctions. The same is true of anyone that has a Money VC. We are not Mafia, our aims are not to beat the Innocents, but we are not exactly trying to support the Innocents either.
Not true. I am trying to make myself useful to the innocents, thereby hoping to gain fringe benefits and make honest money. It is in my best interest to be honest, hence that's what I do. Yes, it's a selfish reason, but that doesn't make the outcome any different. I play openly and honestly because it's what I believe will serve me best in this game.

Those with the Money VC will be quite happy to betray one side if it means we are more likely to win our own VC and will not have any comeback against us (ie get lynched or vigilante/mafia killed). We just are not worth trusting with anything.

Except that we will squabble amongst ourselves ;)
Here's the whole root of the argument. Krill is miffed that I beat him to the punch. Krill has a direct interest in seeing me discredited, since him and I are rivals for our VCs. Everything he says has one purpose - to make me look bad. He's not truly out for the innocent side here, he has only his own agenda to worry about.

I do believe you, Niklas, with your honesty and transparency. It seems great. If someone whos bought the item uses it in wrong way, we lynch him. But why do you do this when you dont get anything for it?
This is a very valid question. What I get out of it is trust, and contacts. Having those two things means I can make money via other side-channels. Such as the protection service I serve as liaison for. Yes, I get 1 credit out of what's paid for that protection, in return for serving as the public face. I am hoping to be able to set up more deals of the kind. This is what I gain - the potential to make honest money.

Still I believe that the mafia got a lot of money (they could afford the Deathstars as we've seen) and then the items will go to them. They will also possibly get lots of the money back by voting the items to you.
Why would they vote the items to me when they can simply participate in the random voting lottery and get the items for free? You've just voted four items to four individuals that you have absolutely no idea whether they have mafia or not. How is that better?

I reiterate: If it's true that the mafia have more money than the innocents, would you prefer that they spend that money on items, or by placing bounties on innocents?

We can't avoid that some items will end up with mafia. Thinking we can is a fairy tale, no scheme could ever achieve that. What we can affect is how they end up there. Do we prefer to let them get items from the random voting lottery? Or is it better that they actually need to spend money to get them, money that can then not be spent on bounties?

Krill suggests that the money from auctions would go right back to the mafia since they would be the ones voting me the items in the first place. This is another case of false association of his, but it also has the potential to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to ensure that the mafia don't end up getting the money back this way is by having enough innocents vote me the items. Only you can stop this - and you can make a profit from it too!

With my scheme you get:
Full transparency, knowing what all items do so no mafia can surprise you with them. If an item effect shows up in a writeup of a kill, you will know what item did it as well as who has it.
Guaranteed money back to the innocents. If an innocent buys an item, the money will be redistributed back to those that voted it to me. The innocents will (should!) outnumber the mafia among them, making only a small portion (if any) of that money go to the mafia side. If on the other hand a mafia buys an item, the money they spend on it will be distributed primarily among the innocents.
Less bounties on innocents, since the mafia will have less money to spend on them.

With Kennigit's and Krill's random voting scheme, you get:
No control whatsoever. Any of the four people you've voted items to today could be a mafia, or a bounty hunter. You just don't know. They all claim they are innocent, in various fanciful ways, but who wouldn't? In the end, they are all random names that you have no idea about.
Mafia keep their money, allowing them to spend it on more bounties later in the game.
A cabal of people who, with no formal authority and no logical basis whatsoever, take control over where items end up. Kennigit just mentioned four people, and voila, people follow like sheep.

My system isn't fool-proof. But it's far far far better than the alternative.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 12:09 PM
How can you say publicly that you're fighting for the innocent interests, yet then state the above privately?
False attribution. I didn't say I wasn't interested in innocent interests, just that I have no interest in getting involved in catching the mafia. There's a world of a difference. It's a pragmatic choice really: I help the innocent cause in the way I think is most likely to bring me the trust I need in order to expand the business that I would make money from. Reasoning about who is mafia and who is not won't help me with that whatsoever.

Compare it to someone that releases open source libraries, then makes money working as a consultant helping people use those libraries. I have volunteered to provide the innocents with a useful service, for free, hoping to make money on other endeavors enabled by it.

I also like this one, though as I state in our convo, its what I expected:
Taken out of context. Everyone should realize that anything I say to you over MSN is pointed and contrary simply because I tire of your constant and blatant fishing attempts. I told you from the start that I wasn't interested in getting involved in catching the mafia. Yet you persist in asking me questions about it, and what else I may know, hoping I will grow tired or lax or whatever and accidentally reveal something I hadn't intended to. You didn't ask me that question because you thought I would be interested in providing an answer - you asked it knowing fully well what my answer would be, but still hoping that I would answer in such a way that I happened to reveal something anyway.

PaulusIII
May 10, 2010, 12:49 PM
For all the lightsabers: Double A, Love, RRRaskolnikov, and for the sabrestaff Kennigit.

and Lynch: Abstain

I do not know what to think of Niklas yet, but I don't trust him - for the sole reason that I still wonder where his real allegiance lies.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 01:10 PM
And I gain... what? Presumably in your universe the mafia would pay me for such a service, enough that I would bother risking my merchant integrity and my life, thus paying a lot more than they would have by just buying it in the first place. I simply wouldn't be interested...

And this also presumes that the mafia would actually reveal to me in the first place. If you don't expect innocents to reveal to me, why would you expect the mafia to? You're only trying to associate me with the mafia side by repeating that I'm scum, when in fact I'm not.

This is a very valid question. What I get out of it is trust, and contacts. Having those two things means I can make money via other side-channels. Such as the protection service I serve as liaison for. Yes, I get 1 credit out of what's paid for that protection, in return for serving as the public face. I am hoping to be able to set up more deals of the kind. This is what I gain - the potential to make honest money.

So, you are claiming that on one hand tyou will not benefit from being hte auctioneer...yet then you admit that yes, it benefits you to provide these "extra services", helping unknown parties that can include the Sith procude them for a fee.

Be straight with the innocents Niklas. You don't care who you make money from, who you help, and what damage you can do to the innocents, provided you can make money.

You put used car salesmen to shame...


Krill suggests that the money from auctions would go right back to the mafia since they would be the ones voting me the items in the first place. This is another case of false association of his, but it also has the potential to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In other words: Krill is right but I'm going to try and worm my way out of it.


I'm also wondering about how you have gotten protection at night, Niklas, as well as the abilities that you have shown. It seems rather unbalanced, compared to what I have to work with. Perhaps that is one side deal that you have already struck, and that would make one wonder at what you have promised in return.

And whom to.

SS-18 ICBM
May 10, 2010, 01:15 PM
I wonder what the traders' personal goals are. Should be distinct from their victory condition.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 01:23 PM
I wonder what the traders' personal goals are. Should be distinct from their victory condition.

Aren't you dead? I thought the dead weren't supposed to talk after, well, they died?

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 01:25 PM
So, you are claiming that on one hand tyou will not benefit from being hte auctioneer...yet then you admit that yes, it benefits you to provide these "extra services", helping unknown parties that can include the Sith procude them for a fee.
I don't see the contradiction. Yes, I hope to provide extra services for a fee. No, I will not care who procures them. It's totally up to the innocents whether they feel they want to do that or not. I hope they will, and it's why I provide this upfront voting service free of charge.

Be straight with the innocents Niklas. You don't care who you make money from, who you help, and what damage you can do to the innocents, provided you can make money.
Not true. While I certainly hope to make enough money to win the game (over the likes of you, not in contention with the innocents), I can't hope to make money just because I want to. I have picked one way to try to make money in this game - by playing honest and hoping to make money that way. It was a choice I made at the start of the game, since I figured it would be the best chance to achieve what I wanted. Yes, I could have made the choice to try to work with the mafia. I decided against it, since I was sure it would get me killed sooner rather than later. I still think that, but feel free to try that route if you like.

In other words: Krill is right but I'm going to try and worm my way out of it.
Not at all. Krill is not the least bit right. He still hasn't given any counter-suggestion that would be better than what I propose. He is still only trying to slander me, instead of giving constructive suggestions. Krill is dead wrong.

I'm also wondering about how you have gotten protection at night, Niklas, as well as the abilities that you have shown. It seems rather unbalanced, compared to what I have to work with. Perhaps that is one side deal that you have already struck, and that would make one wonder at what you have promised in return.
You may wonder all you like, I obviously won't give any details. But no, I have not made any deals with the Sith to achieve the protection I have. If you feel it unbalanced, tough luck. I wish I could say I feel bad for you, but I don't.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 01:29 PM
Abstain on that electric staff thingy, too.
I'm back after two days and +150 posts. Still trying to make any sense out of this thread.
599 posts in 8 days!! :crazyeye:

Krill
May 10, 2010, 01:44 PM
I don't see the contradiction. Yes, I hope to provide extra services for a fee. No, I will not care who procures them. It's totally up to the innocents whether they feel they want to do that or not. I hope they will, and it's why I provide this upfront voting service free of charge.

Nice spin. It isn;t just Innocents that can procure benefits in this way. The mafia will benefit from your side dealings.


Not true. While I certainly hope to make enough money to win the game (over the likes of you, not in contention with the innocents), I can't hope to make money just because I want to. I have picked one way to try to make money in this game - by playing honest and hoping to make money that way. It was a choice I made at the start of the game, since I figured it would be the best chance to achieve what I wanted. Yes, I could have made the choice to try to work with the mafia. I decided against it, since I was sure it would get me killed sooner rather than later. I still think that, but feel free to try that route if you like.

You are either already working with the Mafia, without knowing who they are, or you are blind. This is a quote from earlier:

Presumably in your universe the mafia would pay me for such a service, enough that I would bother risking my merchant integrity and my life.

You don't need to knowingly work with the Mafia, your side orders that are enabled by your auction method make you a crucial lynch pin to any Mafia aims, whether you want to or not. The mafia can easily game your system to the downfall of the innocents.


Not at all. Krill is not the least bit right. He still hasn't given any counter-suggestion that would be better than what I propose. He is still only trying to slander me, instead of giving constructive suggestions. Krill is dead wrong.

Simple suggestion. That myself and Niklas, and in fact anyone with a money VC is not voted a single item. That we do not auction anything in public. That we provide all information that comes to us to a confirmed innocent if one appears.

If we do anything else, we should be lynched or vigilante killed whichever is more appropriate.

And yes, Niklas, I don't like that suggestion either.


You may wonder all you like, I obviously won't give any details. But no, I have not made any deals with the Sith to achieve the protection I have. If you feel it unbalanced, tough luck. I wish I could say I feel bad for you, but I don't.

Pity you can't say that with both sincerity and certainty.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 01:45 PM
Well, it appears we have two neutral, and not too sure how many innocents.

I say we go the way of Solomon, i.e.:
Red Lightsaber to Niklas
Orange Lightsaber to Niklas
Blue Lightsaber to Krill
Purple Lightsaber to Krill

I am going to go ahead and abstain from voting, because there is no one imparticular that strikes me as mafia, and I'm much to afraid of a vote becoming A TRAP as it did last time.

Owen, could you please not vote those items to me, instead vote them to RRRaskolnikov, and for the sabrestaff Kennigit.

Double A
May 10, 2010, 02:14 PM
So, did I miss anything inside the wall of text that is Jabba vs Keniggit and Watto?

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 02:15 PM
I don't think so... but I'm still trying to figure out what's going on.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 02:18 PM
So, did I miss anything inside the wall of text that is Jabba vs Keniggit and Watto?

Vote stuff to Niklas if you want to risk Mafia getting their hands on them.

And under no circumstances vote anything to me - I don't want them.

Double A
May 10, 2010, 02:29 PM
3rd party opinion plz.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 02:31 PM
Put both of us on ignore until a mod cleans up the spam.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 02:32 PM
Both of them are trying to keep items out of each other's hands. Both of them would appear to be neutrals but that means that they don't need the innocents in order to win.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 02:33 PM
Nice spin. It isn;t just Innocents that can procure benefits in this way. The mafia will benefit from your side dealings.
From my side dealings, I hope I will be the one to benefit. It will be open to mafia and innocents alike, since I won't ask any questions. And even if I did, I couldn't know who was truly innocent and who was lying, so it's not like it would matter.

From my upfront dealing with voted items, it will be town that benefits the most. That's what we're really discussing, isn't it? Feel free to argue that innocents shouldn't use the services I try to provide on the side, but that's a completely different discussion. And you're only going there to ensure I don't outperform you in terms of getting money.


You are either already working with the Mafia, without knowing who they are, or you are blind.
It is possible that some of those who have contacted me in private are indeed mafia. That doesn't mean that I'm working with them, nor that I favor them in any way. Yes I'm blind - I have actively chosen to be blind.

What you were previously suggesting though is that I would willingly and knowingly work with the mafia to further their interests. That was the part I responded to, yet obviously you couldn't find anything to pick on in my rebuttal so you pretended I had said something else entirely.

You don't need to knowingly work with the Mafia, your side orders that are enabled by your auction method make you a crucial lynch pin to any Mafia aims, whether you want to or not. The mafia can easily game your system to the downfall of the innocents.
This is pure conjecture. I am not stupid and will not allow myself to be gamed. I will not ask questions, no. The mafia might be able to make use of my side services, without making themselves known, yes. So could the innocents. You seem to suggest that just because those side services exist at all, they will automatically be used by the mafia. That's just silly, and again you're just saying that because you have a direct interest to hurt my business.

Simple suggestion. That myself and Niklas, and in fact anyone with a money VC is not voted a single item. That we do not auction anything in public. That we provide all information that comes to us to a confirmed innocent if one appears.
This is not a counter-suggestion, in fact it's no different from what you've done before. All you're saying is what shouldn't be done - never what should. In the absence of a better scheme like the one I propose, the alternative is random voting. Clearly that's not better, as I've already shown.

And yes, Niklas, I don't like that suggestion either.
Yet you say it, and for one reason alone - because you don't like the idea that you're being outsmarted by another trader. Right now I have the initiative, since I had the clever idea to work with the innocents on item voting before you could. So to bring me down you go to excess length, even suggesting things that could harm yourself as well in the process. But you have nothing to lose by this, since I'm the one with the initiative and the clever schemes.


Pity you can't say that with both sincerity and certainty.
I can definitely say it with both. I can't make you believe it though, since obviously you have a vested interest in not wanting to believe me.


To everyone: There are really two discussions going on at once here, and Krill is trying to mix them both up. Let's keep them side by side, shall we?
First there is the matter of what to do with items up for a vote. I have proposed a scheme that will benefit the innocent cause through openness and transparency, as well as funneling money towards the innocent side. Krill wants to discredit this idea since he doesn't like the thought of me gaining "townie cred", since he and I are rivals. He doesn't have a better alternative to suggest.
Second, there is the question of the "side dealings" I hope to make. These dealings are completely orthogonal to anything I do with items voted to me. They will be my way to try to make money and achieve my personal VC. Whether anyone wants to take me up on these deals, it's entirely up to them. I have openly said that I hope to build up a reputation of honesty through the voted item dealings, which may make people more likely to see that I will be open in other dealings as well. Krill doesn't like this so he tries to discredit this idea as well, and tries to mix it up with the first point.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 02:38 PM
Executive summary:
Vote stuff to Niklas if you want to risk Mafia getting their hands on them.
This is what Krill wants you to believe is the pressing matter. The truth is that anyone you vote the items to could be mafia, and just picking names at random makes it far more likely that some item will in fact end up with the mafia. I'm providing a different alternative, which you should evaluate using your own judgement, without listening to Krill's obvious attempts to discredit me.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 02:44 PM
So, Niklas/Jabba, just to clarify... my previous statement is true, then? You don't care who you go with as long as you win with your personal VC? I find that hard to believe. Luke Skywalker & Co. actually end up killing Jabba in the original story. Wouldn't you have something against them?

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 02:52 PM
So, Niklas/Jabba, just to clarify... my previous statement is true, then? You don't care who you go with as long as you win with your personal VC? I find that hard to believe. Luke Skywalker & Co. actually end up killing Jabba in the original story. Wouldn't you have something against them?
Your previous statement is true, at least as far as concerns me: I expect that I will need the goodwill of the innocents in order to win this game, not to mention survive to the end, so that's what I'm trying to achieve. I can technically achieve my VC even if the mafia win, though in practice I don't think I could.

Jabba in the movies is not the Jabba I'm playing, and I don't have any reason to harbor any ill will because of something that happened in a movie that doesn't have any effect on the game. I prefer the innocents to win, simply because I think that's what gives me the best chances. In particular after choosing the path I have, which makes me a public figure.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 02:58 PM
That doesn't make you a very trustworthy character... but I yet have to hear your enemies' side of the story. I'd like to hear the reasons behind their constant attacks on you. Being an ugly drooling slug isn't enough.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 03:01 PM
That doesn't make you a very trustworthy character... but I yet have to hear your enemies' side of the story. I'd like to hear the reasons behind their constant attacks on you. Being an ugly drooling slug isn't enough.
I'm glad you choose to think and make up your own mind.

It shouldn't be hard to see their motivations though.
- Krill is attacking me because I'm a rival and have the potential to out-maneuver him.
- Kennigit is attacking me for the chance to get his hands on the lightning staff, under the pretense of solidarity and yadayada.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 03:03 PM
I personally don't trust either of them. They are only after money most likely.

johnhughthom
May 10, 2010, 03:04 PM
They are only after money most likely.

Exactly, rather than the blood of innocents. All this is doing is letting the mafia hide.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 03:08 PM
As something else to prove link's scumness, he hasn't been on IM, which he is usually on most of the time. He knows, because when he gets on I always ask him about his role.

Double A
May 10, 2010, 03:10 PM
So, Niklas/Jabba, just to clarify... my previous statement is true, then? You don't care who you go with as long as you win with your personal VC? I find that hard to believe. Luke Skywalker & Co. actually end up killing Jabba in the original story. Wouldn't you have something against them?

And two of them are already dead... hmmm...

j65536d
May 10, 2010, 03:15 PM
I still am not sure I follow the cases against link and arakor but I still have heard nothing from love. If we ignore the suspicious characters we wont get anywhere. Sure lynch one of those two but at the same time we need to be pursuing other leads and getting information.
as for the items they dont seem that useful to me so I vote all of them to niklas

Double A
May 10, 2010, 03:19 PM
Three lightsabers and an electropole don't seem useful!?

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 03:29 PM
- Krill is attacking me because I'm a rival and have the potential to out-maneuver him.Erm... couldn't you two have teamed up? You could have cornered the market between you two. I don't think you're telling the whole of the truth.
- Kennigit is attacking me for the chance to get his hands on the lightning staff, under the pretense of solidarity and yadayada.
What? Why shouldn't he get a lightsaber which is even better?

btw do Kennigit and Krill mind doing a bit of explaining?
As something else to prove link's scumness, he hasn't been on IM, which he is usually on most of the time. He knows, because when he gets on I always ask him about his role.
Sorry, what's this? Must have missed it in between all that Mos Eisley traders' agrement. :confused:
And two of them are already dead... hmmm...
Yes, that too is why I don't completely trust Jabba.
Three lightsabers and an electropole don't seem useful!? The electropole is lightsaber-resistant and almost as powerful as a lightsaber. Scary thing, really.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 03:35 PM
Sorry, what's this? Must have missed it in between all that Mos Eisley traders' agrement. :confused:

This was made early this morning (game time). http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9171369&postcount=440

Zack
May 10, 2010, 03:36 PM
update in an hour, more votes!

SS-18 ICBM
May 10, 2010, 03:40 PM
Aren't you dead? I thought the dead weren't supposed to talk after, well, they died?

Straight from one of the GMs:
You three have died. You can keep posting and say who you think the mafia are, but don't reveal new information to the players.

Bad Player
May 10, 2010, 03:40 PM
I have to agree with Niklas here - look maybe Kennigit is innocent. But I have no reason to believe so. I also have no reason to believe he is mafia either.

However, Kennigit says we should not give items to the Loves of this world but then goes and votes for a saber to Love. :confused:

Kennigit also votes an item to himself at the end. I have to agree - this seems like one of the pigs from animal farm!

TheLastOne36
May 10, 2010, 03:43 PM
I am so lost.

Like 5 pages of big posts have appeared. Can someone give me a summary of what happened?

RRRaskolnikov
May 10, 2010, 03:51 PM
Well, it appears we have two neutral, and not too sure how many innocents.

I will help a bit... 40 players... prolly less than 10 mafias and 10 neutrals, rest should be innocent. Roll a dice, you will have prolly more than 50% chance to give items to an innocent guy. But no, you choose people who claimed to be neutral (yeah, because despite Niklas's spam, that's still only a claim).

Seriously?

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 03:52 PM
This was made early this morning (game time). http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9171369&postcount=440
Hmmmm... well, I was your teammate that time and I do remember you went over the top and bumped up the QT's viewcount to no end. But I haven't talked to him, so... :dunno:
update in an hour, more votes!
Abstain on every single vote as I haven't talked to anyone except Earthling who told me Niklas was Jabba then died (????).

Link
May 10, 2010, 03:53 PM
This was made early this morning (game time). http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9171369&postcount=440
remake, i am not mafia. those are taken completely out of context. what makes you think that i would reveal to you? for all i know, you could be mafia

remake20
May 10, 2010, 03:58 PM
There has to be more you can say than that.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 04:02 PM
Straight from one of the GMs:

Ah, cool, thanks for that heads up.

My PG is to make more than 12 gold from a single auction. Quite easy to do that one in an abusable fashion.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 04:04 PM
All you have to do is get something very valuable and convince someone to bid a lot for it covertly and start a bidding war.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 04:07 PM
I am on IM with link now and he claims innocent, but I ask him to prove it and says something totally unrelated

Link
May 10, 2010, 04:08 PM
Ah, cool, thanks for that heads up.

My PG is to make more than 12 gold from a single auction. Quite easy to do that one in an abusable fashion.
not gold, there credits.
@remake, so im mafia so bc i wont tell myrole. using that logic, everyone in the game should tell there roles, and those that dont are scum

j65536d
May 10, 2010, 04:08 PM
I was under the impression that both the electrostaff and the lightsabers required some degree of force skill or special training which I dont have.

Krill
May 10, 2010, 04:09 PM
not gold, there credits.
@remake, so im mafia so bc i wont tell myrole. using that logic, everyone in the game should tell there roles, and those that dont are scum

Call them sheckles for all I care.

Niklas
May 10, 2010, 04:10 PM
My PG is to make more than 12 gold from a single auction. Quite easy to do that one in an abusable fashion.
Incidentally this is my own PG as well, and I agree with your assessment.

I vote abstain.

Zack
May 10, 2010, 04:30 PM
Day 3


After a long day of accused bounty hunters, mafia, and a particularly boring debate over economics (oh, the horror!) the town finally decided who to lynch. Arakhor was the one who had been chosen to be sent to the guillotine (although since, after all, this is Star Wars, the guillotine is very high tech and advanced).

Jango Fett was Neutral!

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4357/jangofettm.pngHe was a member of the Bounty Hunter Faction!


Tally


Lynch

Arakhor: 8 (Kennigit, Methos, Nictel, CivGeneral, Autolycus, Shadowbound, wideyedwanderer, link16)
link16: 8 (remake20, Romanichine, Bad Player, landlubber, Lord OST, Capt Blackadder, Arakhor, johnhughthom)
Abstain: 6 (Takhisis, taillesskangaru, Secura, OwenGlyndwy, PaulusIII, Niklas)
Khazaar: 1 (RRRaskolnikov)
Nictel: 1 (Double A)
Niklas: 1 (Krill)
Love: 1 (j65536d)


Lightsaber

Niklas: 12 (Romanichine, taillesskangaru, Niklas, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, Shadowbound, Autolycus, johnhughthom, j65536d, OwenGlyndwr)
Double A: 9 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, TheLastOne36, Kennigit, Krill, Lord OST, Nictel, PaulusIII, Methos)
Love: 2 (Seon, link16)
remake20: 1 (remake20)

Niklas has received the Lightsaber.


Lightsaber

Love: 11 (Love, taillesskangaru, Methos, Kennigit, Shadowbound, Lord OST, Seon, Nictel, link16, Krill, PaulusIII)
Niklas: 8 (Romanichine, Niklas, landlubber, Arakhor, Bad Player, Secura, johnhughthom, j65536d)
TheForestAuro: 1 (RRRaskolnikov)
remake20: 1 (remake20)
Krill: 1 (OwenGlyndwyr)

Love has received the Lightsaber.


Lightsaber

RRRaskolnikov: 10 (RRRaskolnikov, Double A, Kennigit, Autolycus, Nictel, Methos, Lord OST, Krill, Secura, PaulusIII)
Niklas: 8 (Romanichine, Niklas, Arakhor, Bad Player, Shadowbound, johnhughthom, j65536d, OwenGlyndwr)
Love: 2 (Seon, link16)
johnhughthom: 1 (landlubber)
taillesskangaru: 1 (taillesskangaru)
remake20: 1 (remake20)

RRRaskolnikov has received the Lightsaber.


Lightning Staff
Niklas: 8 (Niklas, Romanichine, Secura, Shadowbound, landlubber, Arakhor, johnhughthom, j65536d)
Kennigit: 8 (Kennigit, RRRaskolnikov, Nictel, Autolycus, Krill, PaulusIII, Methos, Lord OST)
Love: 2 (Seon, link16)
Krill: 1 (OwenGlyndwr)

Niklas has received the Lightning Staff.


Blaster Auction Bids

Autolycus: 6 credits
Arakhor: 4 credits
Shadowbound: 3 credits
Bad Player: 2 credits
Romanichine: 1 credit

Autolycus has received the Blaster.


It is now NIGHT 3. Night will end in approximately 24 hours.

Send night actions to choxorn, not me!
Send QuickTopic links to me and choxorn!

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 04:33 PM
So, why did I die in a tied lynch and not Link?

Krill
May 10, 2010, 04:33 PM
Owen you noob :(

SS-18 ICBM
May 10, 2010, 04:38 PM
link should've had an extra vote for being unresponsive.

Takhisis
May 10, 2010, 04:38 PM
I somehow missed that blaster bidding situation. Well, couldn't have outbid Auto, so it's not too big a loss.
So, why did I die in a tied lynch and not Link?
Random number generator, I guess. But you're the CIS' bounty hunter and Dooku's bodyguard, so it's not that much of a loss.
Owen you noob :(
He voted you two items and Niklas another two items. Why is he a noob? :confused:

And thus I say farewell until tomorrow or maybe the day after*. Farewell, all! http://foorumi.haistapaska.com/images/smilies/hei.gif

X-post edit:
link should've had an extra vote for being unresponsive.I thought you were dead?

*IRL days.

choxorn
May 10, 2010, 04:39 PM
So, why did I die in a tied lynch and not Link?

The GM's are unavailable for comment at this time.

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 04:40 PM
Well, at least now I can say that I was glad to kill Earthling, for free as well, because he was just spamming the thread with pointless paranoia and fruitless speculation. If I'd known that Krill was going to be as bad, I'd have killed him too!

I'm the most pro-innocent neutral you'd have ever found :)

j65536d
May 10, 2010, 04:42 PM
I voted for love

RRRaskolnikov
May 10, 2010, 04:44 PM
Thank you all for the lightsaber. It will be used to free up the galaxy from the empire's minions...

@Arakhor: sorry to see u quit the game ;)

Krill
May 10, 2010, 04:46 PM
Well, at least now I can say that I was glad to kill Earthling, for free as well, because he was just spamming the thread with pointless paranoia and fruitless speculation. If I'd known that Krill was going to be as bad, I'd have killed him too!

I'm the most pro-innocent neutral you'd have ever found :)

Lucky me there is one less bounty hunter on my tail :p

remake20
May 10, 2010, 04:51 PM
Link did say in IM that he would be fine, could he have some sort of ability?

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 05:12 PM
Who said I'm quitting, Rrras? We both know you only made a lucky guess :)

Based on that logic, you now need to lynch the wealthier man with the blaster - Autolycus :D

Link
May 10, 2010, 05:13 PM
no, no, no. i hoped i would be fine. i have no such ability.

Arakhor
May 10, 2010, 05:19 PM
You escaped by the skin of your teeth, Link. I doubt you'll be so lucky next time.

Earthling
May 10, 2010, 05:21 PM
On the plus side we now have more time to get to razing MERLOT's capital and making off with the Amazon princesses. So I still get princess(es) either way.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 05:24 PM
Who in the world is Amazon?

Double A
May 10, 2010, 05:26 PM
Yes, that too is why I don't completely trust Jabba.
The electropole is lightsaber-resistant and almost as powerful as a lightsaber. Scary thing, really.

He said that 3 lightsabers and an electropole don't seem useful, either meaning he already has one, or something much, much better.

Like a Star Destroyer.

You escaped by the skin of your teeth, Link. I doubt you'll be so lucky next time.

I forgot what the cases against you and him were after reading about the economy. Remind me please.

Earthling
May 10, 2010, 05:29 PM
Who in the world is Amazon?

I hope that's not serious, if so LOLZ.

remake20
May 10, 2010, 05:34 PM
No, I really have no idea who this Amazon is.

RRRaskolnikov
May 10, 2010, 05:46 PM
Who said I'm quitting, Rrras? We both know you only made a lucky guess :)

Based on that logic, you now need to lynch the wealthier man with the blaster - Autolycus :D

Geez, I again forgot to tell you everything :D... but yeah, I am revealing as Robin Hood, rich guys out there... :scan: :lol:

http://adamanthenes.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/robin-hood.jpg

Earthling
May 10, 2010, 05:50 PM
No, I really have no idea who this Amazon is.

Read your own signature ;)

Link
May 10, 2010, 05:56 PM
not funny remake. you cant deny your team

Zack
May 10, 2010, 06:38 PM
No, I really have no idea who this Amazon is.
:lmao:

Kennigit
May 10, 2010, 07:01 PM
Well, brethren, now we see what the innocent faction can do when it identifies a target.

But I am upset that some of you gave powerful items to scum. Very disappointed.

I need to read the thread, but I am hopeful for the future. The cause is moving forward. And now, the innocents may be free to investigate and accuse those such as Bad Player and others who valiantly defended Arakhor (who, by the way, was Jango) and Niklas.

Hopefully now we see the need for the innocents to unite.

On a personal note, I might have made myself a target to the scum. But with no electro staff to defend myself, I might need some help.....

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 03:38 AM
Maybe they respected something called evidence (which, by the way, you had none). See, I can do that too!

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 03:57 AM
Can someone plz scan me tonight then PM me my role so I know you are a real scanner - you should be able to determine who I am by process of elimination.

SS-18 ICBM
May 11, 2010, 05:03 AM
X-post edit:
I thought you were dead?

*IRL days.

This is getting tiring. Once again (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9176890&postcount=623). :rolleyes:

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:10 AM
*AHEM*

Dead players can talk about the game and voice their opinions on who they think the mafia is as long as they reveal no new information.

Capt Blackadder
May 11, 2010, 05:39 AM
Can some vig please kill link I really do not want to see a day phase where we just see a whorde of people voting for just one person.

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 05:51 AM
I still am not sure I follow the cases against link and arakor but I still have heard nothing from love. If we ignore the suspicious characters we wont get anywhere. Sure lynch one of those two but at the same time we need to be pursuing other leads and getting information.
as for the items they dont seem that useful to me so I vote all of them to niklas

I am not aware of any case against Arakhor (which makes ppl who voted for him look suspicious btw) but the case against link is based on the evidence presented in these 2 posts:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9171369&postcount=440
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9175539#post9175539

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:03 AM
Well, brethren, now we see what the innocent faction can do when it identifies a target.

But I am upset that some of you gave powerful items to scum. Very disappointed.

I need to read the thread, but I am hopeful for the future. The cause is moving forward. And now, the innocents may be free to investigate and accuse those such as Bad Player and others who valiantly defended Arakhor (who, by the way, was Jango) and Niklas.

Hopefully now we see the need for the innocents to unite.

On a personal note, I might have made myself a target to the scum. But with no electro staff to defend myself, I might need some help.....

Noone presented any kind of case against Arakhor so I defended him. A reasonable case was made against Link16 so I accused him.

Kennigit
May 11, 2010, 06:30 AM
*sighs*

Arakhor immediately denied the bounty on Earthling. IIRC, he also defended Niklas. He desired the blaster for himself and gave the rest of the items to Niklas. He suspiciously said he talked to no one in the game/had no contacts/had no leads--iirc, he even said he didn't talk to Jabba once we started accusing him (he actually may not have talked to jabba and jsut acted alone as a bounty hunter w/ Boba).

Nor does remake20 provide sufficient evidence that he himself is good. He wanted the lightsabers/items to go to himself.

The neutrals we have seen seem to have some direction (Watto and Jabba are after money, the magnaguard would have wanted to find grievous, jar-jar wanted to get himself killed for some odd reason). We know Boba and Jango will work together, and Arakhor was partially defending himself based on his claim taht he wasn't talking to people (iirc; this may be incorrect recollection of defense for Arakhor). I would say Arakhor was suspicious in general.

Line of logic can be as follows:

1) A person who does not show innocence may not be innocent
2) A person who is not innocent would most likely be neutral; especially since mafia seem to have a habit of acting as lurkers
3) Arakhor was active and showed no sign of innocence; defended Niklas/money q. moneybags. Bid on the blaster and was particularly quick to bid on the blaster. Even admitted he had no use for lightsabers as he wasn't force sensitive.

Arakhor sounds awfully like a neutral bounty hunter in such a scenario.

Evidence against Link is your logic and remake's little screen shot. I have asked remake to prove he is innocent and he has not.

And your logic seems very faulty- there is a very very strong possibility that the sith/neutrals are wealthier than the innocents. Yet you insist on giving items to Niklas and said that it would afford an extra night. And why do you think Niklas is safe from anything-- siths can kill him, vigilante innocents can kill them, anything can happen. Neutrals are exactly that- neutrals aren't really neutral.

The magnaguard would clearly favour grievous. Niklas will be under the sith's purse. Jar-jar would have been most likely pro-town. There is no such thing as a neutral neutral.

remake20
May 11, 2010, 07:59 AM
Read your own signature ;)

not funny remake. you cant deny your team

:lmao:

Really, I have no idea what in the world is Amazon. I do know an AMAZON*, but that's not what you talking about.
*AWESOMENESS!



Evidence against Link is your logic and remake's little screen shot. I have asked remake to prove he is innocent and he has not.

Where? I don't remember it, but since I am new to these games I'm not sure how exactly to prove my innocents, except a scan.

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 08:10 AM
So why and how do u expect link to do the same? (I heard Amazon was a giant forest in south america... but maybe you are talking about this silly team workshipping Diana in the new mtdg :D :p)

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 08:48 AM
Actually, I never lied even once. I never talked to Jabba, I didn't contact anyone by PM and I had two OOC chats with Rrras. I also had no leads or contacts, other than my son, obviously :) I didn't even deny the bounty on Earthling - I asked him if he had any proof.

Krill
May 11, 2010, 09:00 AM
Actually, I never lied even once. I never talked to Jabba, I didn't contact anyone by PM and I had two OOC chats with Rrras. I also had no leads or contacts, other than my son, obviously :) I didn't even deny the bounty on Earthling - I asked him if he had any proof.

...now you are dead, you shouldn't release information that was not public knowledge before you died.

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 09:03 AM
I'm not releasing anything new, other than saying that I never lied. I'm just repeating things I've already said :)

Double A
May 11, 2010, 01:47 PM
Oh, the Amazon rain forest.

I thought you guys were talking about the daughters of Ares.

Link
May 11, 2010, 02:17 PM
i suspect that remake isnt so innocent. if so, then why did he want those lightsabers for himself? and by trying to get me killed, he has all the innocents fighting amongst themselves while he and his mafia buddies sit back in the shadows.

remake20
May 11, 2010, 02:20 PM
The items was a n00b move. Second game so I wanted them, I realize now that it does make me look scummy, so unless I have a real reason then I will note vote items to myself.

Link
May 11, 2010, 02:23 PM
it must have taken you, what, like 2 minutes to think of an excuse like that.

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 02:25 PM
Let's face it - anything you do in this game can be seen as scummy if people really want to try. The idea is to make sure that no one does :)

remake20
May 11, 2010, 02:27 PM
Yes, why?

Link
May 11, 2010, 02:41 PM
you may be a noob, but that doesnt mean you lack common sense. this shows that you are either a jedi or a sith, and since you wanted them for yourself, my guess would be sith.
you would reveal your role as a sith to me, and then in turn you would learn my role. then, since your a chat moderater, you would be free to edit the posts to erase any mention of you as a sith and make me look like scum.

remake20
May 11, 2010, 02:45 PM
Well if I DID tell you I was sith and then you tell me? Then wouldn't you only do that if you were sith? (You are a chat mod too you know)

Link
May 11, 2010, 02:46 PM
yes, but you set up the chat room, and therefore have more power than me. i cannot edit ypur posts, but you can edit mine

remake20
May 11, 2010, 02:50 PM
Let's take this to PM.

Double A
May 11, 2010, 02:53 PM
No, keep it here. I'm bored, and this is vaguely entertaining.

Link
May 11, 2010, 02:54 PM
i await your private messages
EDIT: or not. i have no preference

remake20
May 11, 2010, 02:56 PM
I don't have anything I can think of to say, you start.

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 03:19 PM
And news flash - if you put both your comments in a txt file, then you can edit them both. Really, this bickering is pointless.

Link
May 11, 2010, 03:22 PM
what did you want to say to me that you cant say in the open? why should we use pms

remake20
May 11, 2010, 03:27 PM
We're spamming the thread.

Owen Glyndwr
May 11, 2010, 03:45 PM
Can I has the sabrestaff. I'm still looking for a defense from all THE TRAPS that have been poppin up.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 04:00 PM
remake20, this is a warning. Don't ever post screenshots in Mafia games unless the rule explicitly state that you are allowed to do so. Especially if the screenshots were from a chat in which you can edit posts, that is extremely cheap tactics. :)

remake20
May 11, 2010, 04:04 PM
Oh okay, but to be fair, he could too.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 04:08 PM
As I understood it, you had more authority in the chat than he did.

remake20
May 11, 2010, 04:12 PM
Yes I did, and I wont do it anymore. But I'm not that cheap.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 04:40 PM
Update coming in a few.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 05:02 PM
Night 3


http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9229/admiralpiett.png

Admiral Piett stepped out of his house and boarded the Executor, the flagship of the Imperial Navy. This was going to be fun. He took the gigantic ship out of the docking bay (which was all in his backyard, it beats me how no one has noticed anything about this - I'm just the narrator) and set out in search of Love. Once Piett found Love minding his own business, quietly meditating in his humble abode, he grinned and opened fire. The awesome firepower of the Executor destroyed Love and his house to bits. Satisfied, the Admiral departed from the scene (and amazingly no one noticed him flying a huge ship around - I mean, come on people? Are you all blind and deaf? *sigh*).

Anakin Skywalker was Innocent!

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8925/anakinskywalker.png

He was a member of the Jedi faction!

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/73/darthmaul.png

Darth Maul flipped his hood over his head and jumped onto his landspeeder, zooming out towards his unfortunate victim, PaulusIII. Maul desperately hoped that he could find someone that could be a challenge for him - everyone had been far too easy to kill so far, even that one guy who he only killed because of luck. But deep down, Maul knew that he would never meet his match - for only a Dark Lord of the Sith could be a match for him, but it was not his job to attack those individuals. Maul sighed as he arrived at the location of PaulusIII. In a bored, casual manner, Maul flung his lightsaber at Paulus, not even bothering to get off his speeder. The poor guy never saw what was coming. Maul sped away, his mission a success.

The Ewok was Innocent!

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6990/ewok.png

He was a member of the Rebel Alliance!



In the morning, the items of the fallen players had been discovered.

Anakin's Lightsaber
Anakin's Other Lightsaber

Watto has put up a Drink for auction.

Jabba the Hutt has put up a Lightning Staff for auction.



Night Summary
Admiral Piett killed Love.
Darth Maul killed PaulusIII.
Watto has put a drink up for auction!
2 Lightsabers were found.
Jabba the Hutt has put a blaster up for auction!



It is now DAY 4. Day will end in approximately 48 hours.

Income has been generated!
Scan results have been sent!
Lynch votes in Bold.
Support votes in Green.
Bid on the Lightning Staff in Purple.
Bid on the Drink in Magenta.
Vote for Anakin's lightsaber in Dark Red.
Vote for Anakin's other lighstaber in Blue.

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 05:05 PM
Does that mean noone can defend against Piett??

Zack
May 11, 2010, 05:07 PM
Do you really expect me to answer that? ;)

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:09 PM
What do you call a mother who just lost their son? :cry:

Autolycus
May 11, 2010, 05:11 PM
Better off than the surrogate father for a daughter whose father became synonymous throughout the galaxy with fear?
I'd like to hear more from wideyedwanderer, personally. I'll bid 2 credits for the drink. My salary will stretch that far. I think Nictel is as good a candidate as any to receive a lightsaber.

Link
May 11, 2010, 05:15 PM
what do support votes do?

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 05:18 PM
Scum, Double A

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:19 PM
Wait, what?

That's the most inexplicable vote I've ever seen.

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 05:23 PM
Wrong... that's the most inexplicable reveal I 've ever seen... :cringe:

edit: unless you can explain to me how revealing an innocent role (it's not like Earthling who was about to get lynched) is helping the town.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 05:23 PM
what do support votes do?
Take away a vote for a player. For example, if a player has 4 votes for him, and somebody supports him, then he only has 3.

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:25 PM
Wrong... that's the most inexplicable reveal I 've ever seen... :cringe:

Well, NO ONE ever PMs me, even though I was told I would get PM'd.

I'm getting very, VERY bored. Which is not good. I'd rather die after a round of hilarious discussion which I was part of than live till endgame and not do jack.

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 05:29 PM
Which is not good.

You mean for you, or for the town? unvote: Double A pfff

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:32 PM
For me.

It is a game, after all.

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 05:35 PM
I unvoted you for what it's worth... but seriously... I hope at least SOME townies intend to win this.

edit: Besides, it's not a game... it's STAR WARS!!!

Takhisis
May 11, 2010, 05:43 PM
OK, people. Just another friendly update from uncle Takh. I'll be back in the forums on Thursday, post-exam time.

So, Anakin is dead... http://uploads.forumwarz.com/cdn/100/1320555a-1401-11de-bd52-001c23d677ba.gif not good at all. How the blazes did the Empire find out who he is? :confused:

btw, Ras, are you voting for Star Wars to be lynched?

choxorn
May 11, 2010, 05:44 PM
I unvoted you for what it's worth... but seriously... I hope at least SOME townies intend to win this.

Oh, so you mean that Victory Condition thingy is what we're trying to do? Gotcha there, I thought we were all supposed to die.

Takhisis
May 11, 2010, 05:45 PM
Oh, so you mean that Victory Condition thingy is what we're trying to do? Gotcha there, I thought we were all supposed to die.
Jar Jar was... :p

Owen Glyndwr
May 11, 2010, 05:46 PM
Oh, so you mean that Victory Condition thingy is what we're trying to do? Gotcha there, I thought we were all supposed to die.

NO! Don't believe that. It's a lie. It's...dare I say it...A TRAP!

Kennigit
May 11, 2010, 05:50 PM
1 credit for the lightning staff. go ahead and challenge me: The brotherhood will see you as anti-town or anti innocent.

If you are pro innocent and want the item, I will give it to you for free if I have reasonable evidence to believe you are innocent.

If you bid above me, ye be scum.

This is for the solidarity of the town, etc. Innocents must not feud in the competitive game of bidding. We are all together; all items belong to all innocents once you are with the innocent cause.

I just don't feel like doing more propaganda pictures right now. Give me an hour. But i promise to keep posts short. I do love propaganda posters though.

But let's beat jabba at his own game.

Double A
May 11, 2010, 05:56 PM
If I can't bid above you... -1 credit!

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
I thought we were all supposed to die.

Yeah. That doesn't mean we should waste our time meanwhile...

@Tak: nope, I tempted to lynch Zack and choxorn though :D... funny, I thought you were out for a bit longer... You wouldn't have missed night results, would you? :scan:

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
Better off than the surrogate father for a daughter whose father became synonymous throughout the galaxy with fear?
I'd like to hear more from wideyedwanderer, personally. I'll bid 2 credits for the drink. My salary will stretch that far. I think Nictel is as good a candidate as any to receive a lightsaber.

Why Nictel??? What makes you think he is innocent?


And are you roleclaiming here?

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:01 PM
Do you really expect me to answer that? ;)

No, I was hoping Piett might. ;)

Zack
May 11, 2010, 06:01 PM
I tempted to lynch Zack and choxorn though :D...
Then I would have been tempted to fly to France and personally disassemble your computer. :scan:

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 06:04 PM
I knew Zack was the most intelligent, but he can fly as well??? :hide: :lol:

edit: oh and Bad Player, in case you didn't get it... asking for role reveal will get you my vote ;)

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:05 PM
So, Anakin is dead... http://uploads.forumwarz.com/cdn/100/1320555a-1401-11de-bd52-001c23d677ba.gif not good at all. How the blazes did the Empire find out who he is? :confused:


Who was Love talking to? Who did he tell that he was Anakin?

Takhisis
May 11, 2010, 06:08 PM
If I can't bid above you... -1 credit!
I'll outdownbid you!! -10 credits for a nonexistent item!!
@Tak: nope, I tempted to lynch Zack and choxorn though :D... You can't they were the first two characters to die in the game.
funny, I thought you were out for a bit longer... You wouldn't have missed night results, would you? :scan:
All I know is that Anakin is dead at the hands of the Empire and that the Sith have killed... an Ewok? :confused:
Who was Love talking to? Who did he tell that he was Anakin?
No idea, been out of the PM loop because of aforementioned IRL issues.

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:08 PM
1 credit for the lightning staff. go ahead and challenge me: The brotherhood will see you as anti-town or anti innocent.

If you are pro innocent and want the item, I will give it to you for free if I have reasonable evidence to believe you are innocent.

If you bid above me, ye be scum.

This is for the solidarity of the town, etc. Innocents must not feud in the competitive game of bidding. We are all together; all items belong to all innocents once you are with the innocent cause.

I just don't feel like doing more propaganda pictures right now. Give me an hour. But i promise to keep posts short. I do love propaganda posters though.

But let's beat jabba at his own game.

Anakin (Love) was presumably betrayed by someone he role-revealed to - why should we trust you???

Autolycus
May 11, 2010, 06:08 PM
They may not have known he was Anakin. The thread told them he was strong, and they knew he wasn't one of theirs, that may well have been enough to put him at the head of their hit-list.

wideyedwanderer
May 11, 2010, 06:13 PM
Was Anakin a good guy or bad guy?

Romanichine
May 11, 2010, 06:13 PM
1 credit for the lightning staff. go ahead and challenge me: The brotherhood will see you as anti-town or anti innocent.

If you are pro innocent and want the item, I will give it to you for free if I have reasonable evidence to believe you are innocent.

If you bid above me, ye be scum.



*snort* What kind of argument is that?

Last day the er... brotherhood was voting lightsabers to Double A, Love and RRRaskolnikov. One day later Love is dead, and RRR is voting against Double A.

This so-called brotherhood appears to be more a bunch of clowns trying to acquire free items than an actual pro-town alliance. If the latter was true, it would not be very wise seeing how quickly the confirmed townies die.

My advice to the Rebels: Focus more on the sith and less on the money and little shiny things.

Earthling
May 11, 2010, 06:15 PM
Oh, so you mean that Victory Condition thingy is what we're trying to do? Gotcha there, I thought we were all supposed to die.

You guys seem to be confusing your rules a lot...already talked to Zack a little. But you maybe in rulesets copied/similar to previous games you are intending to be retracting/changing some? Like it says in the rules support votes count for 1/2 a vote negation; and also posting a chat log was fine because it again says players could quote chat logs or whatever like remake did. I'm not doing any of that anyway now but maybe the first page rules need updating?

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:16 PM
I knew Zack was the most intelligent, but he can fly as well??? :hide: :lol:

edit: oh and Bad Player, in case you didn't get it... asking for role reveal will get you my vote ;)

I wasn't asking for it - I was asking him to either deny it or just come straight out and say he's owen lars!

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:20 PM
They may not have known he was Anakin. The thread told them he was strong, and they knew he wasn't one of theirs, that may well have been enough to put him at the head of their hit-list.

Fair call actually. That's probably the case.

Kennigit
May 11, 2010, 06:21 PM
I thought the idiot faction was eliminated?

Zack
May 11, 2010, 06:22 PM
You guys seem to be confusing your rules a lot...already talked to Zack a little. But you maybe in rulesets copied/similar to previous games you are intending to be retracting/changing some? Like it says in the rules support votes count for 1/2 a vote negation; and also posting a chat log was fine because it again says players could quote chat logs or whatever like remake did. I'm not doing any of that anyway now but maybe the first page rules need updating?
Quoting the chats is fine; however, SCREENSHOTS ARE NOT.

Kennigit
May 11, 2010, 06:25 PM
*snort* What kind of argument is that?

Last day the er... brotherhood was voting lightsabers to Double A, Love and RRRaskolnikov. One day later Love is dead, and RRR is voting against Double A.

This so-called brotherhood appears to be more a bunch of clowns trying to acquire free items than an actual pro-town alliance. If the latter was true, it would not be very wise seeing how quickly the confirmed townies die.

My advice to the Rebels: Focus more on the sith and less on the money and little shiny things.

Any innocent that wants the electrostaff can have it.

I agree; the focus is on the sith.

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 06:32 PM
*snort* What kind of argument is that?

Last day the er... brotherhood was voting lightsabers to Double A, Love and RRRaskolnikov. One day later Love is dead, and RRR is voting against Double A.

This so-called brotherhood appears to be more a bunch of clowns trying to acquire free items than an actual pro-town alliance. If the latter was true, it would not be very wise seeing how quickly the confirmed townies die.

My advice to the Rebels: Focus more on the sith and less on the money and little shiny things.

"A bunch of clowns"? Love being dead is a proof of what? Will you repeat Bad player 's argumentation? You will pretend that siths have no reason to target a powerfull guy eating grievious for breakfeast?

"focus less on money"? Maybe you don't realize you are repeating the clowns's argumentation... funny for a guy who voted eveything to Jabba (oh yeah, the monney guy) last day.

And I will make it more clear for you: my vote for Double A was a message: whoever wants to win an innocent victory should try harder. (because yeah, revealing yourself or asking for a public reveal is scum)

You haven't Romanichine, you are just sending bird names and spreading nonsense.

Arakhor
May 11, 2010, 06:34 PM
So anyone outbidding Kennigit is automatically scum? Have my senses greatly sharpened since my unfortunate demise or is that possibly the most scummy thing ever said?

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:37 PM
OK I'm not voting items to an unconfirmed innocent who is being rude to boot.

Both lightsabers to Niklas.

Link
May 11, 2010, 06:41 PM
both lightsabers to krill
lynch vote: remake20

Bad Player
May 11, 2010, 06:42 PM
We should lynch lurkers IMHO.

choxorn
May 11, 2010, 06:42 PM
Anakin (Love) was presumably betrayed by someone he role-revealed to - why should we trust you???

The young Jedi, named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he became evil, was seduced to the dark side and helped the Emperor hunt down the Jedi Knights. He Betrayed and murdered your father.

[/Obi-Wan Quote]

Double A
May 11, 2010, 06:44 PM
Although he isn't rude, Jabba is by no means an innocent.

Because he's neutral.

So anyone outbidding Kennigit is automatically scum? Have my senses greatly sharpened since my unfortunate demise or is that possibly the most scummy thing ever said?

No, it's totally townie-like.

But only on Wednesday.

Zack
May 11, 2010, 06:44 PM
Hey, choxorn, you're a GM - remember? :p

Double A
May 11, 2010, 06:44 PM
Although he isn't rude, Jabba is by no means an innocent.

Because he's neutral.

So anyone outbidding Kennigit is automatically scum? Have my senses greatly sharpened since my unfortunate demise or is that possibly the most scummy thing ever said?

No, it's totally townie-like.

But only on Wednesday.

fos: Kennigit

choxorn
May 11, 2010, 06:46 PM
Hey, choxorn, you're a GM - remember? :p

Oh, right. Was just bored for a minute.

Kennigit
May 11, 2010, 06:52 PM
Where? I don't remember it, but since I am new to these games I'm not sure how exactly to prove my innocents, except a scan.

PMs.

But by taking a leap of faith I'd say. I get it if I don't look perfectly innocent- I've been too wild this game. Need to roleplay more.

But there are certainly people who should look innocent.

Romanichine
May 11, 2010, 06:55 PM
"A bunch of clowns"? Love being dead is a proof of what? Will you repeat Bad player 's argumentation? You will pretend that siths have no reason to target a powerfull guy eating grievious for breakfeast?

"focus less on money"? Maybe you don't realize you are repeating the clowns's argumentation... funny for a guy who voted eveything to Jabba (oh yeah, the monney guy) last day.

And I will make it more clear for you: my vote for Double A was a message: whoever wants to win an innocent victory should try harder. (because yeah, revealing yourself or asking for a public reveal is scum)

You haven't Romanichine, you are just sending bird names and spreading nonsense.

Pffft, I don't know what do say. Do you really think I am a sith or are you insulted by what I said?

Say what you will, but you are focusing on money. You suspect players who share an interest in splitting the item profits with Jabba. You lynched Jango because he bet 4 credits on the blaster. If anything, you should be more worried about someone else getting the items than Jabba. At least you know he is neutral.

Going after the money and Jabba's supporter is a pointless crusade. Make a martyr of me if you want, maybe then you will understand.

wideyedwanderer
May 11, 2010, 06:56 PM
People keep talking about lynching the lurkers. But how can we know who they are if they aren't posting? :confused:

Link
May 11, 2010, 07:10 PM
i dont think people are going to waste lynches on people just for lurking when there are sith and imperials running around free

RRRaskolnikov
May 11, 2010, 07:12 PM
Going after the money and Jabba's supporter is a pointless crusade. Make a martyr of me if you want, maybe then you will understand.

That's not my point. You will get it too.
edit: and a small precision... I didn't vote for Jango/Arakhor last day.

Link
May 11, 2010, 07:32 PM
people, we need to lynch remake. he tries to get me lynched with no conclusive reason to beleive me to be mafia, and then when i spoke against him, he wanted to talk in pms. hes obviously hiding his scummy nature.

remake20
May 11, 2010, 07:45 PM
No reason? You kept dodging my question, you didn't even say, "I don't want to talk about it." And I wanted to talk in PMs for two reasons, that are related. 1st I didn't want to spam the thread with a discussion that look like it had more to do with chat than the game and two the mafia don't like spam and I thought it would put a target on us.

Link
May 11, 2010, 07:50 PM
what? i hope your not implying that the mafia would kill me just bc i made a couple of off topic posts. you must realize how dumb that is.