World = standard, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, large continents
Difficulty = Regent
Barbarians = Sedentary.
# Civs = 8
NOT culturally linked, NO restarting players.
Civ = Vikings
All victory conditions are enabled, but I doubt we could win a UN vote :rolleyes:

Signed up:
LKendter
Meldor
NEED MORE PLAYERS

STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Mandatory requirement - Play The World Expansion
Previous Monarch win a must, previous Emperor win preferred.

I will sign up, none of those "issues".

Just thought of something, always war under PTW may be nastier than before. With the AIs now selling contact with the human with each other, we could get in a lot of trouble early. This one may need to be run on something akin to REX style. More settlers, less city spacing and of course the archer/horseman rushes.

Originally posted by meldor
Just thought of something, always war under PTW may be nastier than before. With the AIs now selling contact with the human with each other, we could get in a lot of trouble early. This one may need to be run on something akin to REX style. More settlers, less city spacing and of course the archer/horseman rushes.


:eek: :eek: :eek:
PTW could turn very brutal with always war. I played to limit contact to avoid having to many early enemies.

:cringe:
This is going to be beyond emperor and close to diety with ZERO toleranace for mistakes.

EDIT:
FALSE START!

The AI logic appears to be improved for fighting, and the barbarians bypassed our town to charge our worker.

I had a feeling that terrain was to rough of a start.
I am restarting the game WITHOUT barbarians, as the we are getting beat up by just one civ.


I am resetting the difficulty to Regent, until everyone has a better understanding of the new AI fighting abilities.

I just located a significant game play change! Read the message above the city!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-187.jpg


Well, maybe it gets better, this certainly helps!

What other heavyweight emperor players want the join this game?

According to Soren over on Apolyton, it was in fact possible to pop a city from a hut in vanilla Civ 3. However, it involved a wildly improbable set of factors; one of them being the goody hut had to be on a terrain gold bonus.

In PTW, only expansionist civs can pop a city from a hut. This is in addition to their chance to pop a settler. (And if you think about it, getting a settler is actually better, since then you get to pick the city location.)

BTW, I'm not in here; haven't gotten PTW yet and don't plan to until they get it good and patched.

LKendter
Meldor
NEED MORE PLAYERS TO START

Well, I've wanted to play every "always war" that has come along but have always been too late. However, with you and Meldor the lineup will be very similar to LK34. If you don't mind, I definitely want to play this.

LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13
Need one more player to start
I had a bad feeling with the other attempt to start, the second I start city #1.
This game is definitely a better start ;)

I will definitely be watching :). May even shadow a few rounds ;). I was wondering today how an expansionist trait would help in always war. A scout is not necessarily a good thing when you are trying to limit contact. Better odds at huts could be good however.

Hotrod

If you still need one I would like to join


Rowain

I never posted the always war rules we are playing under:
During first contact you may trade provided no gpt commitments.
Before ending the turn, war must be declared.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


4000 BC - Our people for Trondheim where there is plenty of food.
Our leaders want good defense, and begin researching how to use bronze.

3850 BC - Unreal, during the restart we again form Bergen from an advanced tribe, this time the Jutes.

3600 BC - Our scout reports a strange looking border, and runs away. Our army is alerted, and begins heading toward that border in forces.

3500 BC - The ugly border has grown, but no sign of the people who reside there.
No people have appeared at our palace.

3450 BC -
(I) The next science project is The Wheel.

3400 BC - Some ding-dong who calls herself Cathy of the Russia appears, and she can offer nothing of interest.
She won't give us everything she owns to survive, so a war begins. We know have 2 scouting parties.

2800 BC -
(I) Weapons rule, so I begin researching Iron working. We have horses available, near Moscow.

2630 BC - Up to now, just some minor skirmishes. The real event begins, and the assault on Moscow begins. It cost us 2 archers, but we capture Moscow with a working inside it. The size one was because of whipped production. RUSSIA IS DEAD [dance]
Trondheim switches to Settler.


Summary - What a weird start, but we are more then in this one. This is the earliest I think I have ever killed another civ.


LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)
Rowain deWolf (congrats on already getting PTW overseas, I didn't think it made it there yet)
Also welcome back, haven't seen you in a game for a long time.

I would like a 5th player
I had a bad feeling with the other attempt to start, the second I started city #1.
This game is definitely a better start ;)


First round is 20 turns, 2nd and beyond 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-2550BC.zip

I see it and will start it right after LK34 tonight.

What a splendid start :)

Free City and one civ already dead :lol:



@LKendter: Most of my playtime was used for the Realm Beyond-Epics (http://www.realmsbeyond.net/civ/epics.html) so I had none to very little time for SGs



Rowain

I would like to play if the slot is still open. :king:

EDIT: Rules Question - After war has been declared, may diplomacy be used for "intelligence?" (i.e., to see A.I. gold, techs, etc., or to see how the AI is perceiving the outcome of the war based on what it will demand or give for peace).

@Jumbo2002
Welcome aboard for the 5th and final slot.

This is a pure dastardly game, and sending false diplomats to get an idea where civs are with techs, city counts, etc is perfectly valid. Once a war is started, we may NEVER sign a peace treaty. The use of espionage is on the table. All victory conditions are enabled, but we typically try to get a domination / conquest victory.

I know Meldor and Rowian DeWolf have played this format before in a previous LK series game. I don't know how familiar Mystery13 is with the format. I haven't seen your name around here before, so I want to give a brief outline of some key items to watch.

1) A big part of the game is getting leaders, and using them well. This is why I wanted a militaristic civilization.
1A) Leader fishing is very important. Unless the attack is critical, try to save the elite units to kill the 1hp units / weaker units (knight attacking spearmen).
1B) We can only have one leader at a time, so use them ASAP unless a wonder will be available in a turn or two. It is better to have a leader rush the most expensive improvement available (i.e. - marketplace before temple) in a nearby city, then to wait several turns to use him as we could very well get another leader that turn. I actually had an attack that got a leader, used the leader up, and the VERY next attack got another leader :crazyeye: That attack proved that after getting a leader, move that leader next (except if behind enemy lines and taking the city will let us move the leader faster).
1C) Production is at a premium for military units, and this is why the 1B comments. All wonders (including small wonders) should be built from leaders, except maybe Sun Tzu / Leo's since those are SO critical to always war. The revenue / science wonders are worth waiting a turn to rush in a high money city, but Sun Tzu is fine in a corrupt city.
1D) Once we start building armies put the units that already generated leaders into the armies.

2) Troops could be at a premium at times, so avoid attacks into mountains and other good defensive terrain except if it is critical or absurd odds (cavalry vs. longbow).

3) We will be BEHIND in tech, and there is nothing we can do about that. However, we must avoid worthless optional techs like Democracy, Free Artistry, Republic, etc. The Great Library is really valuable in this variant.

4) Troops support will be expensive, so capturing workers is very valuable. We must have workers, but natural workers could really drain our budget.

5) The key is to survive to rails. Once we can build a military rail net, we can't lose the game.

6) Once ironclads appear our coastline will get bombarded to death. If we have a critical resource on the coast, we should build a city on top of it, as that connection would never be broken.

2550 BC (Pre-turn)
Not much to change. I don't understand why the worker near Moscow is connecting the horses. We have a long way to go to temples. Of course, maybe we will meet someone else from which to wrench the tech. I will let the worker finish the road anyway.

2510 BC (1)
Native worker starts road.

2470 BC (2)
Settler finished in Trondhiem, set for a worker. Drop luxes to 10%, raise Science to 90%.

2430 BC (3)
Settler moves towards spot near Ivory. There will be some overlap, but that will only matter much later in the game. The spot I have selected won't waste any bonus grass and will leave more room for a city on the coast.

2390 BC (4)
Copenhagen formed. Set to build a spear. Worker at Trondhiem finishes and we start a spear there as well. One worker moves to connect the Ivory, the other moves to irrigate the wheat.

2350-2310 BC (5-6)
Nada
(I) Barracks finishes at Bergen, start a spear.

2270-2230 BC (7-8)
Ivory road completed. Tronhiem finishes its spear and starts a granary. Lux to 0%, Science to 100% gives us IW next turn at a -1g. I take it.

2190 BC (9)
IW was completed and I start Ceremonial Burial in 4 turns at 70%. We have iron in our area but it is just outside of Trondhiem's border. Without a temple, Trondhiem will expand again in 21 turns.

2150 BC (10)
The scout moving due south of Trondhiem reports that the land in that direction is either an isthmus with a good choke pint or a pennisula. Either one is good.

2110 BC (11)
Pennisula it is, and a small one at that. We are in a really good position for this game. With the previous leader taking out the unworthy Russians, we have a lot of good open lush land to bend to our will. On top of that, we will have three native luxes before we are out of the BCs.

2070 BC (12)
With CB due in one turn, I set Science to 60%.
(I) CB comes in and the next one is Alphabet in 9 at 90%, break even. Moscow finishes its barracks and starts a spear.

2030-1990 BC (13-14)
Boredom sets in again.
(I) Copenhagen finishes its spear and starts a worker.

1950 BC (15)
The extra spear drops is to -1gpt, but we will leave it that way for the next several turns as we only have 6 left on Alphabet.

1910 BC (16)
Bergen builds its spear and starts a worker.

1870 BC (17)
Trondhiem starts a settler now that the granary is finished. Once it grows to 6 we will have a good settler factory.

1830 BC (18)
Copenhagen finshed with its worker starts a barracks.

1790 BC (19)
Lux upped to 10% as Trondhiem grows to 6.

1750 BC (20)
Bergen finished with a worker is now working on another spear. Science dropped to 60% as Alphabet is due in 1. A coast is found to the northeast. It appears that three cities (including Moscow can block the AI path into our lands.

Trondhiem is set to produce another settler next turn and can continue to crank them out. Moscow is 3 turns away from a spear, giving us at least one spear in each city, with one in Bergen building for the new city. I would start a tempe next in Moscow to bring the horses on line, but we should also build more archers as well (the upgrade to our UU). With lots of coast showing we may have plenty of uses for our UU sown the line. I kept my explorations to safe directions and therefore gave us time to get spears on line. Isolation will hurt us in the long run though as it will slow our research efforts. Maybe we will be lucky like we were in my last all war and be on a continent with only two other civs.

LK35 1750 BC Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-1750BC.zip)

[EDIT] Corrected link.

Our little slice of the world, so far.......

Lee, maybe a dot map is in order......I would suggest settling the land towards Moscow first and working our way back from there.

I kept my explorations to safe directions and therefore gave us time to get spears on line.
I 110% agree with you - the next scouting area is north of Moscow to get a well-defined coastline.

If we don't spot another civ by the end of Mystery13 turn, we have to consider that we may be isolated on this landmass. We need to beeline to mapmaking / literacy. We need to plan on the possibility of building the great library and depending on a one-shot mass tech forward move. We may need the faster research that comes from libraries.

LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13 (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Jumbo2002


First round is 20 turns, 2nd and beyond 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


The proposed new cities:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-193.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-194.jpg

Here is the list of the next four cities in priority order. A key factor here is getting some coastal cities going, and getting the lowest corruption cities (1st ring going next).

1) Blue dot: This is by far the best city - cattle in range and two bonus grassland tiles. It does waste a bonus grassland square, but that can't be avoid sometimes.

2) Yellow dot: The city will be one a river, and has 2 useful grasslands to start with. We are almost guaranteed to have to cross the ocean at some point, so we really do want to start getting some strong cities coastal cities going.

3) Pink dot: 2 cattle in range after a culture building, on a hill for defense bonus, and a coastal city.

4) Red dot: It will need help quickly with irrigation down the black line, but with the game square it will produce some shields quickly. If nothing else, it can build troops for a while at a small size. It also helps put a culture lock around the iron - we want it very hard for the AI to get to key resources - PTW sounds like the AI is more likely to pillage!

Remember: Our target is Monarchy that includes free military support. Each city we build, even highly corrupted ones, support at least 2 troops at the smallest size.



NOTE: We need to start increase our cash flow. We want to get the 2 ivory squares irrigated, as Ivory gives a extra commerce, and every dollar will count.

Just a little FYI. Two of us just spent more than three hours on multiplayer. Things were bad at first, but we finally used small map and simultaneous turns and had no problems. The movement is a bit slow but this turn method was the only one that worked for us. Much fun playing another human player instead of the AI.

Also, I got it and LK34 when Meldor finishes.

Were you on broadband? I tried with a dialup and it was not cool. I am looking into cable as we speak.

Hotrod

Yep, both on DSL. Incidentally, IE 5.5 failed immediately. An upgrade to IE 6 solved the internet error problems. Also, one of us has Windows ME and it worked fine for him after the IE upgrade.

Cable is a must NOW!! Gotta convince the wife.

Hotrod

Bad Post

Bad post - ignore.

Thanks for the tips LK, especially re:leaders. (I tend to save them for "best" use...I guess not a good way to go in Always War!) I've been a lurker for several SGs in the past, especially the DSGs, and decided to jump in on one - but one more attuned to my skill level.

One question...I'm guessing that unless something wicked powerful (the great library, for example?) is available, our first leader should build an army, to set up the heroic epic? (Of course, there's also the immediate military benefit of a strong army...)

Ok, so I got to this one first. And Lee, this is definitely my first "always war" so hammer away when you see weed. :)
Or anyone else that has played "always war" for that matter.

Surveying preturn, can't change a thing.

We get Alphabet and I swap to Writing...going for the
Great Library, right?

1)1725BC I send the settler North to the river spot. I
leave Trondheim on settler as it grows back to 5 next
turn anyway. The worker is on a forest square; should
we be chopping already? Non-industrious takes 10 turns
so I move back to the grassland and improve immediately
useable squares.

2)1700BC not much...

3)1675BC Moscow builds a spearman. I change to Temple for
now but will revisit this decision.

Surveying preturn, can't change a thing.

We get Alphabet and I swap to Writing...going for the
Great Library, right?

1)1725BC I send the settler North to the river spot. I
leave Trondheim on settler as it grows back to 5 next
turn anyway. The worker is on a forest square; should
we be chopping already? Non-industrious takes 10 turns
so I move back to the grassland and improve immediately
useable squares.

2)1700BC not much...

3)1675BC Moscow builds a spearman. I change to Temple for
now but will revisit this decision.

4)1650BC scouting...

5)1625BC Trondheim builds a settler. I'll build a barracks
(3 turns) before starting another settler. We've got a lot
of land...might as well fill it.

6)1600BC Reykjavik online and another city in just a bit.

7)1575BC I set both Copenhagen and Bergen to temples. A
little bit of culture can't hurt and we are not at war with
anyone currently (we don't know anyone else currently as
we've destroyed our only neighbor so far).

I take a look at Lee's last right up. Yellow dot is settled.
Blue dot one turn away. I think I'll modify pink and red
just a bit so we don't waste any low corruption squares.

8)1550BC We get our barracks in Trondheim and I go for another
settler.

9)1525BC not much

10)1500BC

11)1475BC We get another settler and I'll do the spear settler
swap in Trondheim for the remainder...

12)1450BC With the additional cities, Moscow drops to one useable
shield so I switch it to an archer.

13)1425BC We get a warrior from a goody hut...oh boy.

14)1400BC We get writing...literature in 13 at -2 or 16 at +2
per turn. I opt for 16 at positive cash since we'll start a
pre-build for the great library anyway...though a quick check
shows we don't have much to pre-build with.
I'm going to crowd the red dot site a bit. Looking South, my
choice will allow three more good coastal cities in low
corruption range.

15)1375BC Moscow has built an archer and I think I'll leave
it that way for a bit...at least until we can rush a courthouse.

16)1350BC Another goody hut gives us maps...bummer again.

17)1325BC Finally, something useful from a hut. Mysticism.
Masonry would have been better for a prebuild of course but
I can't complain. Oops, I take that back (I don't usually
go for the Oracle so I almost forgot about it). We now have
a pre-build in Trondheim for the Great Lib.

18)1300BC Far to the SouthWest we meet...Spain! Let's see
what is available before we get pissed. Hmmm...they can only
give us communications for our tech...bummer. Oh well, I thought
about it so they would be able to trade communications with us to
the Zulu, but I couldn't. So, we tell them to give us Barcelona.
No? Fine, then war it is.

19)1275BC In between turns, our mighty conscript warrior fell
in battle.

20)1250BC Bergen builds a temple and swaps to settler. Moscow
is growing fast but with no temple. We should probably rush one
here but I wasn't too sure about that plan.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-1250BC.zip

Now for a picture or two...

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/one_city_shot.jpeg

From here you can see the city squeeze will allow one more
very good grassland city.

This one shows that there should be three, low-corruption
coastal cities possible. I hope I did ok as I definitely agonized about the location of the red and pink dot cities.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/three_city_shot.jpeg

1250BC (0T): Oslo + Rejkjavik to Barracks; Moskaw to Temple

IT Rej fin Barracks starts Archer

1225 BC: wake up Archers in Moskau and send them south.

1200BC: GH gives 50 gold ; Trondheim is now size 7 Lux-tax increased:

till1150BC nothing

1150BC Copenhagen fin Temple starts Warrior ( Iconnect Iron and will upgrade them.

1075BC (7): Science reduced earns 9 gold and Lit next turn;

IT: Our three archer stack gets attacked by an Spanish Archer and wins. Lit discovered Poly started (at min to get Money for Warrior upgrade) Trondheim swithced to GreatLib due in 23; Bergen fin and starts Settler

1000BC (10): terrible RNG attacking an reg spanish Archer on Grass looses one vet Archer and reduced the second to 1 hp;

975BC(11): Aarhus founded (heavy overlap); Iron connected;

950BC(12) I let Copenhagen finish its Warrior; still no new contact

925 BC we have now 3 Swords Copenhage start next .Science up to 60% Poly in 16 by +0;

875BC attacking an spanish Archer on grass results again in a loss of our Archer :mad:

825BC Checking F4 (as every turn) shows that we have now contactz with Zulu; Thea have Masonry Philo, MapMaking and Horseback and communications with the Greek; Since their WM would cost Literatur which I don't want to trade I buy their TM for 27 gold; War declared;

775BC (19): Stavanger founded.

750BC (20) Our Swordman stack ends next to an Archer/Warrior stack from Spain.




The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-750BC.zip)

Rowain

at first a view of our land :http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/ourland750BC.jpg



and now some proposed city-site near Trondheim:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/proposedcities750BC.jpg

They have overlap but that nothing to bother cause I doubt we will see many Hospitals in this Game;


F11 shows we are Number 1 in any stat except: Approval, military service and family size;

Don't forget to always check F4 do see any new contact. On Science: Since this is Regent i propose to let Science high till we have Monarchy and than turn it down and let the GL do its work.

Good Luck Jumbo :)

Rowain

Since this is Regent i propose to let Science high till we have Monarchy and than turn it down and let the GL do its work.

I agree - we desperately need to start building a cash reserve to upgrade units with. After Monarchy is complete, don’t bother with any research. There is nothing else that will give us that much benifit.

I agree with the proposed southern dot-map. This is a great area to fill in, as I don’t think the AI is close to sending loaded galleys our way.

We have been found by 2 civs - we need MILITARY ASAP! For example, after the temple completes in Moscow, switch to military. We have lost our free growth period. We need to be able to keep some reserve troops behind the lines.


LKendter (on deck)
Meldor
Mystery13
Rowain deWolf - finished before I even saw Mystery13 turn :goodjob:
Jumbo2002 (currently playing)


First round is 20 turns, 2nd and beyond 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Sorry, a touch late on the "got it"...but I'm playing right now and uploading later this morning or early afternoon.

I was just reading thru this and noticed that someone earlier had mentioned stockpiling Archers for upgrade to Berserks when you got Invention. It seems this isn't the case. There is a thread in the General section about it. Hope this saves some time and frustration.
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36957 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36957)

Thanks for the Info :)


Rowain

Ok, first game of Always War for me, so I hope it's not too weedy...

(0) 750BC - Survey the world. All our stats are good, and I liked that "17" next to Russia's score. :) We are average in military to both Spain and Zulu.

Espionage diplomacy on Izzy - she has horses, no iron, has Masonry, MM, and Horseback. She's feeling some hurt, as masonry and horseback are "almost a deal" for peace.

Everything else looks good to me, so I press enter!

(IT) Aarhus Warrior->Worker.

(1) 730BC Swordsman stack attacks Archer/Warrior stack. First swordsman dies to warrior, next two swordsmen take out archers, taking minor damage. Settler moves towards red dot.

(IT) A Spanish horseman and archer advance towards our territory. An archer threatens our scout.

(2) 710BC Move scout away. Attack hurt warrior with 3/4 swordsman - promoted. Keep 2/4 swordsmen on hill to heal. Move swordsman near Aarhus SE to defend against potential advance.

(IT) Spanish Horse attacks 2/4 sword; sword wins, taking no more damage. I can't go two turns without :smoke: - Trondheim in disorder. Oops! Scroll ahead to make sure the disorder hasn't spread.

Moscow Temple->Sword
Bergen Spearman->Sword
Cop Sword->Sword

(3) 690BC Found Odense. Move swordsmen to good defensive terrain.

(IT) Stock Worker->Barracks

(4) 670BC Move some guys around. Spanish archer has fortified on a mountain. I'll let him sit there.

(IT) Another Spanish archer approaches.

(5) 650BC Move guys around.

(IT) Oslo Settler->Temple.

(6) 630BC We have contact with Greece now. He has Masonry, Philo, MM, and HR. Trade WM for his WM+2 gold, then declare war!
The world map is very favorable to us (as far as I can tell)! Spain, Zululand, and Greece are just about in an E-W line in the SE part of the continent (with the Spanish a little bit north). The jungle in the middle of the continent has pretty much cut off their expansion on our continent, although there is a gap in the Zulu/Greek border and Greece has founded one city on another continent (Mycenae). Along with this island, there is also a visible coastline off the SW edge of our continent.

We have a strong military compared to Greece, and they have the lowest score of the three currently surviving Civs.

Attack lone archer one plains with elite swordsman, hoping for a leader. Victory, minor damage, no leader. Keep other swordsmen on hills for defense/observation.

Settler from Oslo begins march to blue dot. Moving sliders gives no extra cash for last turn before Poly.

(IT) Poly->Monarchy

Copen Sword->Sword

(7) 610BC Move some guys around. Attack Spanish spear on plains with Vet sword. Minor damage, promotion. Moving scout back north to observe future Spanish movements. Currently considering placing an outpost on the mountain that sits right in the middle of the jungle...but I don't know if it's worth it, as I've never placed an outpost yet.

We can have Monarchy 36 turns/+8 gold, 27 turns/+2 gold, 24 turns/+0 gold. I elect to go with the middle option.

(IT) Aarhus Worker->Rax

(8) 590BC Healing some wounded Swords. No new visible Spanish units.

(IT) Trondheim finished Great Library! Switch to settler in order to found a city on green dot. Future plans include a temple to deal with latent happiness issues, then military.

Stav Warrior->Worker

(9) 570BC Doh! Move scout one space NW, ends up right next to a Spanish archer.

(IT) A Spanish horse takes out our scout (huh? I didn't see that anywhere). We learn Masonry, Math, Philo, Code, MM, Horseback from Great Library!

Reyk Temple->Sword. Gems will be online once its culture grows.

(10) 550BC Spanish archer has moved off its mountain and onto a forest. I will aim for leader with elite sword. Victory, but Sword wounded down to 1HP (well, at least I didn't use a Vet!) and no leader. Other swords are either repositioning or healing.

Espionage diplo: Spain has no extra tech, will give 37 gold for peace but not 1GPT. Zulu has no extra tech, doubtful at even peace. Greeks refuse envoy.

(IT) Copen Sword->Sword

(11) 530BC Move swords around, preparing to form new stack. No new Spanish units, although I expect at least a couple on the way.

(IT) Trondheim Settler (heading for green dot)->Temple, Bergen Sword->Sword

(12) 510BC Hareid founded. Set to warrior.

(IT) Moscow Sword->Sword. Odense Warrior->Worker.

(13) 490BC. We have fallen to -1GPT, but we've got 37 gold and 19 turns to Monarchy. Moving the sliders doesn't make anything better. I veto my own sword in Reyk and change to Spear - since our warriors will eventually be upgraded, I might as well have the spears ready to remain as defense.

(IT) Reyk Spear->Sword, culture growth, gems on line. Stock Rax->Spear.

(14) 470BC Moving lux slider down is ok everywhere except Trondheim, as it will grow next turn. Temple will be built in 3 turns, then can safely move lux down to 10%, while will turn our -2 deficit into a +2 profit. I veto my own Sword in Copen and switch to a settler; nobody has been coming into our eastern territory (currently patrolled with 6 swords and 3 more on the way) and so I think we're ok expanding at least a little more to the east. The cow/game/coastal site looks nice to me.

(IT) Copen Settler->Sword, Birka Temple->Rax.

(15) 450BC Continue sword patrol in the mountains. A Spanish horse has appeared, moving swords for defense.

(16) 430BC Spanish horse moves onto mountain. I will ignore, for now. He's dead the moment he tries moving onto flat ground. Moving swords back onto southeastern mountain reveals a Spanish spear and archer in the distance.

(IT) Trondheim Temple->Sword.

(17) 410BC I reduce lux to 10%, ending our -3gpt deficit. However, Trondheim will grow again soon. I move a civilian from the irrigated wheat tile to a forest. We go from a +1 profit to +0, but we now get a sword every 2 turns instead of every 3, and we will be ok in happiness until Moscow grows (15 turns, about when Monarchy will be available).

Elite sword wastes Spanish spear on the desert, no leader. Spanish horse and archer are still on elevated terrain. I hold my recently finished Settler back (ugh, I guess that move was pretty weedy) in Aarhus until the land is clean again.

(IT) Spanish archer attacks our elite sword. Sword down to 1HP, but survives.

(18) 390 BC The Spanish horse is a pesky little thing, and he's danced around us to potentially threaten a worker. I move spear from Aarhus to defend. Move some swords south, to check out more of the territory. No new sightings.

(IT) Spanish Horse attacks our vet Sword. No promote, our sword takes a little damage. Trondheim Sword->Sword. Aarhus Rax->Temple. Stav Worker->Rax.

(19) 370BC The settler who was hanging around Aarhus starts moving eastward, rather than south. There is a nice coastal city location to the NE of Moscow. A Spanish archer and a Zulu Impi stack appear to the south. I move one of my swordsman stacks to block on plains, because I want to keep the Impis from getting high ground. Molde founded, completing the expansion south of Stockholm.

(IT) The enemy units move to avoid confrontation. The archer moves to a hill, and the Impis move to a plains. A Spanish horse also enters the killing zone.

Bergen Sword->Sword, Copen sword->Sword, Reyk Sword->Sword, Birka Rax->Spear. I've kept these all at swords, but it the team thinks that horses are a better option, then feel free to start changing. I've always had better luck using a Swordsman March of Death than Horse Rushes, but that might just be me...

(20) 350BC The settler moves to east to the edge of our territory, gazing onto the fertile lands beyond.

Our Swords attempt to take out the current set of invaders: Vet sword chases Impi onto mountain, taking a little damage. Vet sword kills other Impi, going down to red. Vet sword attacks damaged Impi on mountain, wins losing a few HP. Elite sword attacks horse, forcing withdrawal. Vet sword attacks archer on hill, wins at 1HP, promoted.

A few notes before the save: our swords have done very well repelling the several invasions; in fact, the only battle they lost was to a warrior. We have 8 swords of varying health scattered around the killing fields. Perhaps regroup on the heights to heal? There's a vet archer down there too, but he has stayed out of the fighting.

We have a total of 12 swords, with 5 more under construction. We have a strong military compared to Spain and Greece, average compared to Zululand. Izzy would give us all gold + WM for peace; no gpt or cities. Shaka would give us a little bit of gold. Ditto for Alex. None of the other Civs have any more techs. Izzy still doesn't have Iron, although she has just founded Valencia with iron just outside it's current border.

Our score and culture continue to increase, relative to the other Civs.

After regrouping our troops, it seems like we might be in a decent position for a march down the coastline; Valencia, Toledo, and Madrid. :hammer: Once Madrid is ours, we can then decide which direction to send our troops.

Here is the save, with some screenshots forthcoming:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-350BC.zip

This is the first time I've posted a screenshot...I hope it works!

First, an overview of our empire...which, except for the expansion into the south and some border growth, hasn't changed all that much.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/350BC-Territory.gif

Next, a close-in look at the "Killing Fields," where the noble Viking Swordsmen have turned back a half dozen Spanish (and one Zulu) incursions...also, we're a few turns' march away from Valencia:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/350BC-KZ.gif

Finally, a nice wide look at our enemies territory...(cough)...I mean, future provinces of the Viking Empire! :hammer:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/350BC-Enemies.gif

Wow, from the look of things, Lee's wipeout of the lone Russian city really gave us a leg up on this game. I think that our Sword force may be big enough to keep expanding.

Nice job Jumbo! I wonder, though, why you care what the others will give for peace? Peace? No peace!

Well, of course no peace! :lol:

I'm usually just curious, though...curious to see how willing they are to beg for mercy!

Also, I think it is in the Celtic infantry SG, the AI was completely unwilling to give up a size-1 city even as it was willing to give up other cities, suggesting the existence of a future resource.

Lastly, doesn't seeing whether or not the AI will give GPT reflect their current income? So if the AI is willing to give >20 gold but not 1GPT it shows that they are losing cash.

Originally posted by Quokka
I was just reading thru this and noticed that someone earlier had mentioned stockpiling Archers for upgrade to Berserks when you got Invention. It seems this isn't the case. There is a thread in the General section about it. Hope this saves some time and frustration.
forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36957 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36957)


Well, I just confirmed in the editor that Quokka is correct :(
I still give thanks, even if it is bad news.

We don't want to ever build another archer, and want to put our at risk attacks to use these unit up.

IIRC, the archers and Longbows upgrade to the Guerilla.

350 BC - :smoke: Trondheim is NOT growing, I switch to settler. I don't want to raise luxury rate for 1 city, but I refuse to waste food growth.
Issue with the workers: 1 building road, 1 building mine in the same square? Have 2 on either task, so that we benefit from the first item sooner.
:smoke: Bergen will grow into a undeveloped square, Copen is USING a undeveloped square, yet almost all workers are improving by Aarhus which can't use most of the improvements. The bonus grassland by Aarhus was missed? I cancel a couple of the workers; most of the others are close enough to wait.

I switch Reykjavik to galley; I want to better define the northern coastline.
I wake the choke-point warrior, to see what is up north.
Bergen, and Moscow have horrid corruption; to get the city useful it needs a courthouse.


290 BC - Vikings 4, Zulu 1 (counter attack)

270 BC - Our horseman arrived just in time to killing a Spain Archer that landed next to a city.
[dance] Lee's swordsman is formed [dance]
Pop a goody hut - construction for Free :crazyeye:

GACK: America has joined the list of civs aware of us. He is aware of 2 other enemies - the Germans and the Chinese. I can't get a thing from America, and I can tell he has our world map already as he offers just $5.

250 BC - The first Greek units arrive - NO hoplites.

230 BC - Alesund is formed, and we start building cities toward Spain.
Healfdene forms our first army.

210 BC -
(I) Germany builds the Pyramids.

190 BC - Bodo is formed, an ice village, but every city counts. Plus we can use the free military support ;)
Incense is connected, and luxury tax to 0%.


FINISH WITH 150 BC

Summary -
1) Kill science after Monarchy. I think we should revolt quickly, as not much danger at the moment.
2) The horses behind our lines are in case another galley drops a unit off; we ALMOST lost a city if my first horseman didn't complete that turn it did.
3) Moscow irrigation is heading toward Alesund.
4) You have the army, load with swords, and get us Heroic Epic. The MA aren't that far away, and Sun Tzu is critical for always war. We need to start getting more leaders.



LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
FINISH THIS BEFORE LK32

Mystery13 (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Jumbo2002


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-150BC.zip

Originally posted by LKendter
[B]350 BC - :smoke: Trondheim is NOT growing, I switch to settler. I don't want to raise luxury rate for 1 city, but I refuse to waste food growth.
Issue with the workers: 1 building road, 1 building mine in the same square? Have 2 on either task, so that we benefit from the first item sooner.
:smoke: Bergen will grow into a undeveloped square, Copen is USING a undeveloped square, yet almost all workers are improving by Aarhus which can't use most of the improvements.]

Thanks for pointing these out...the first was actually a decision (even if a bad one)...as I don't like raising lux for one city, and moving the tiles around allowed for 2-turn swordsmen.

As for the workers, though, I admit that was pure :smoke: - I'll learn from it! :scan:

Trondheim is a speciality city - very rich in food. We still have plenty of land to settler / conquer. This city should keep sneaking out settlers when we can afford it and escorts are available, we still have a ton lf land up north to fill in.

The ultimate win in AW is domination, and it is easier to settle land then conquer it.

Also it is much better to have cities with barracks near the enemy than a wide unsettled land.

I suggest to use the next Leader for FP in Moscow or close to Moscow.

Rowain

I suggest to use the next Leader for FP in Moscow or close to Moscow.

I was thinking the same thing. The FP is called for and Moscow would almost double our production cities.

I have been under impressed with the medeval infantry, but at least our swords won't be dead ends.

I also would like to get contact with the rest of the civs, at this point it will slow their science down and that only helps us.

If anyone else has an objection jto an FP in Moscow, get it in before I start.

I agree with cities with barracks - I really hope we can snag Sun Tzu for just that reason. If we get a leader, and Sun Tzu is available, that is the #1 priority. That wonder would get us lower maintenance cost, instant barracks in new cities / conquered cities, and barracks that can't be destroyed by bombardment.

One the subject of the FP - Moscow is to close to the capital for the FP and to keep the palace in its current location. The city still has some productivity as its on 3spt before courthouse under despotism. That will IMPROVE after monarchy is achieved. What we might consider is an fp closer to the capital with the plans to move the palace in the future. Always war needs a huge production base, and we want the fp a full 6 cities away from the palace to get the maximum benefit. I fp that overlaps with the palace to much will hurt our ability to wage war.

I did get a city closer to Spain, along with another settler heading that way. We are close to being able to connect Valencia and the spices into our network for luxury #4 - which is great under AW.

One question...we turn off science after Monarchy and until the Great Library expires at Education. At that point, though, since we can never trade, I assume we must turn science back on to win. Do we go full science? And should we be getting libraries online in the coming years in preparation for turning science back on?

I'm not able to check out the save for more specific comments, but what looking at the map...if we're waiting for 2 leaders (the first for Sun Tzu) then we might have a few cities captured by the time the second leader is acquired. The Seville/Knossos region looks nice to me.

EDIT: This is re: the FP. I hadn't made that clear, before.

I will do a detailed analysis when I get home on Moscow and the FP. We are about to hit Monarchy which will help all cities with production ;)

I hope to have something by 8:00PM.

According Science we turn it down for the remaining Ancient techs but once we are medival we should res Engineering hope for Feud and run for Invention and our 6.2.1 UU with amphibious attack.

hell I want to slaughter their Pike with Berzerks :lol:

Rowain

150 BC (Pre-turn)
The only iron that Spain has is near Valencia. We will take it before they can hook it up. Check all cities. Wake elite swordsman and have him attack unfortified spear next mountian over and we get Anwaaer the GL. Meldor's Royal Rapiers formed from the glorious unit. Now, do we go for FP or hold him for Sun Tzu's/Leo's.
(I) We get Monarchy and start currency next at minimum science. We revolt and I draw 6 turns. I guess that means I won't have to make too many build decisions. However, since I revolted during the interturn, it is really only 5 turns. Hire entertainers for the duration of the chaos in Trondheim and Moscow.

130 BC (1)
Move to put Lee's and Meldors groups in the army. This will then move on Valencia.
(I) Archer moves onto plains

110 BC (2)
Archer is no more.
(I) New Zulu and Spainish archers appear.

90 BC (3)
GL is now safely in Bergen. Army move to attack position on the Archers.
(I) We get currancy and enter the middle ages. Set next research to Engineering.

70 BC (4)
Chase off impi and 2 horses that show up.
(I) More units show up.

50 BC (5)
Kill a spear, 2 archers, impi and 2 horseman, but lose one sword. Karasjok founded towards Valencia.
(I) Archer kills our archer.

30 BC (6)
We are now a Monarchy. Switch Copenhagen to building Heroic Epic, it is on;y two turns longer there than in Trondheim and I can still buils settlers in Trondhiem. Force impi to retreat, kill archer.
(I) Warriors and imipis appear.

10 BC (7)
Kill 2 warriors and 1 impi.
(I) Spanish archer and 2 Horsemen show up.

10 AD (8)
Kill 1 impi, 2 archers, retreat 1 horseman and kill the other.
(I) Zulu archer attacks sword in jungle and gives us another elite sword. The Greeks complete the Oracle. America complettes the Great Wall.

30 AD (9)
Movement and rest.

50 AD (10)
Kill 2 impi and one archer, lose one sword.

GL is fortifies in Bergen.
There are four swords near Valencia, but they need to step back and heal a turn or two.
Army is healing in Karasjok.

LK 35 50 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35_50AD.zip)

1) We need to get heroic epic done ASAP, and get back to military production. Our troops are really thin, and a galley landing troops by Bergen would really hurt! Take the tile that is shared with Trondheim and give to Copenhagen - this shaves 2 turns from Heroic Epic.
2) I suspect the leader is sitting in Bergen, as I didn't get the change to comment on the fp earlier :(
Based on the mere 1 shield gain from Monarch in Moscow, building an fp with a possible palace move offers just one choice for the fp - Aarhus. Oslo, and Reykjavik would need a courthouse before the jump, but that is still pretty far away.

>>>> Use the leader pre-turn to rush the fp in Aarhus <<<<<


LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13 (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Jumbo2002


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

got it...and I see the leader instructions

I dind't think the fp discussion would matter, at most it delayed what he could build by five turns. This (and the thin troops) is due to the fact that most of my turn was is anarchy and we weren't getting any production at all.

Besides the push for more troops, we need to get more settlers out as well. The AI's are not going to sit idle while there is a ton of land yet to settle. We need to fill that land in, not only to prevent the AI form getting there but also to give us the increase in porduction.

We may want to rush the barracks in the new city (Karasjok). This is our forward base, and will come in handy for healing the troops.

We are batter off fighting the horseman down in the jungle. That is were we can rid them of there one advantaqe (movement).

Yes we should fill the land but we should also leave some open space to bait some AI-settlers. We will need those free workers


Rowain

Yes we should fill the land but we should also leave some open space to bait some AI-settlers. We will need those free workers

Rowain


I couldn't agree more - so far outside of my Russian workers, I haven't heard of any being gained. We can't afford not to get more workers, but we also need to get some larger cities and more shields. Maybe we can sneak a first horseman around and area and create a killing zone. LK21 and LK22 were really help with the free labor. I wonder if PTW improved the logic where to send settlers - if so, AW is harder in PTW.

------------------------------------------


I didn't think the fp discussion would matter; at most it delayed what he could build by five turns. This (and the thin troops) is due to the fact that most of my turn was in anarchy and we weren't getting any production at all.

Besides the push for more troops, we need to get more settlers out as well. The AI's are not going to sit idle while there is a ton of land yet to settle. We need to fill that land in, not only to prevent the AI form getting there but also to give us the increase in production.

We may want to rush the barracks in the new city (Karasjok). This is our forward base, and will come in handy for healing the troops.

Meldor


We got a good start with my quick kill of Russia, but it is still a long way to go. A rushed building would have completed under anarchy. It is to late to correct, but I hate to no get the 5 turns of extra production. I know the anarchy thinned out the military, but we made it through one of the dangerous periods - we have achieved our government goal.

I agree on more settlers, I skimmed another one my turn. The trick is we need a spear escort for each one, and we need some safety units near the new cities.

I agree to the rushed barracks in Karasjok, but that should be our ONLY rush. The milk the great library period is our only chance to pile up cash for troop upgrades. We had to do the expensive hand built library (20 spearman worth of troops), so lets get our moneys worth.

Preturn...ooh, lucky I was mming Trondheim and Copenhagen because Trondheim was going to riot next turn and delay our settler.
I rush the FP in Aarhus. I notice we have a couple of undefended
cities. I'll have to fix that.
I change Moscow to a Marketplace since the FP will be only one
city away. I do the same in Bergen.

Inbetween turns we learn the Republic and Monotheism.
Also, the FP is online. I'll build some defense first then assess
the offense.

1)70AD Moscow now losing 1 shield, Bergen 2, to corruption.
We take out Valencia.
Trondheim completes the settler and I go for a Marketplace. I'll
try to rotate structure with military. Tell me if that is not
correct in this style game. We are closing in on Education so
I think Libraries will be useful soon.

2)90AD much movement of workers and troops

3)110AD Wow, some good luck. Zulu dropped off an Impi two steps from undefended Bergen but our Horse got him. Had a couple of close calls to the South but all Swords eventually won their battle. I rush the Barracks now at Karajok for under 50 gold.

4)130AD lots of movement...I'm finding it difficult to make the
push South. Lots of jungle, lots of enemies and no easy place
to heal yet. I wanna take it to them but I can't.

5)150AD mass movement

6)170AD a bunch of military completed this turn so I'll switch to
a few marketplaces (money before books).

7)190AD much military movement South

8)210AD still moving

9)230AD encountered heavy resistance from Spain and Zulu. I'm
pressing forward with the main line, leaving the back line to
clean up the stragglers.

Inbetween turns I add grass to the palace.

10)250AD Main line getting beat up...jungle adds too much
defense even to horsemen and archers. Our swords lose
at least one HP every time. We simply have to get cities over
here and get our workers to slash through the jungle.

I built two cities, one far to the East was just built and
currently undefended. Other is to the South and a Spear just
got there. I took out one Spanish city but couldn't keep
healthy troops down there with all three civs pushing military
North to us. Next player will see lots of fighting on the
first turn. The Zulu have placed two cities North of Spanish
territory in the jungle. It would be good to get rid of
those. Heroic Epic finished in 4. I have some infrastructure
going, Marketplaces then Libraries. Mostly, though, military!
Last tech we learned was Monotheism my first turn. Nothing since. Also, a Chinese boat near Trondheim has not unloaded yet. The Zulu boat is on its way home.

The save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-250AD.zip

Originally posted by Mystery13
Trondheim completes the settler and I go for a Marketplace. I'll
try to rotate structure with military. Tell me if that is not
correct in this style game. We are closing in on Education so
I think Libraries will be useful soon.

I have some infrastructure going, Marketplaces then Libraries. Mostly, though, military! Last tech we learned was Monotheism my first turn. Nothing since. Also, a Chinese boat near Trondheim has not unloaded yet. The Zulu boat is on its way home.


Welcome to the havoc of always war - balancing infrastructure with Military. We have solved one problem - our production base is stronger with both FP and Monarchy. Military must take priority above all - we can't afford to have many cities tied up on infrastructure. This game has already been very rough on shields with building the great library and heroic epic by hand. This cost us 600 shields worth of troops not built.

This must be the LAST wonder built by hand; we can't afford any more shields on wonders. This is why I made the comment about rushing infrastructure by leaders - it lets us move forward with barely denting military production.

Based on your turn we clearly need a few more horses up north for emergency defense. I did spot some good news - We take out Valencia. That keeps iron away from Spain :)


LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Jumbo2002 (on deck)


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Lee,

Don't you think we need to start at least one pre-build for Sun's or Leo's? Are we going to leave to chance these most important wonders? It is a random chance getting two leaders to build both of these, I think prudence would suggest at least one back-up.

Lee,

Don't you think we need to start at least one pre-build for Sun's or Leo's? Are we going to leave to chance these most important wonders? It is a random chance getting two leaders to build both of these, I think prudence would suggest at least one back-up.


Thinking about it some more I very reluctantly agree to a palace pre-build in Moscow as soon as the marketplace is completed. I have never played always war so thin with troops before and I am running very scared in this game. I want more military ASAP. No matter what, after those wonders, ZERO hand-built wonders. There is no other wonder worth risking a game loss for. DON'T save a leader waiting for those wonders.


Taking out Russia early did come with a big penalty. Normally you can get some elites and leaders in the Ancient age. After killing Russia we had a big block of peace when we normally would have gotten a leader for the Great Library rush.

Well, I know my experience with the always war strategy is nil, but I definitely feel comfortable with the ability to defend ourselves. I have 2 horsemen shadowing the Spanish boat, and our warriors are being upgraded to swords as spearmen take over city defense. We have around 20 units in the South. The other civs seem to be sending mostly pillagers at us...no real high attack swords (I've only seen 2 and they were both dispatched). The Zulu are only sending Impis. These are a pain in the jungle but easily taken care of in the grassland. One thing that ticked me off is their nearly 100 percent retreat rate against our swords. This is incredible since they are all regular Impis facing at least vet swords. An Impi also withdrew from our 2 elite sword Army! Anyway, the huge amount of land in between us and the other civs may be making this always war scenario a touch different from the others.

BTW, sorry about leaving the two horsemen forward with no defensive help. My plans were hampered when the Zulu retreated from the Army and then I failed to get defense to move up with the offense.

Originally posted by Mystery13
Anyway, the huge amount of land in between us and the other civs may be making this always war scenario a touch different from the others.


This is a very good observation from Mystery13. This is what is making this game so different. LK21 and LK22 were is constant fight mode since the beginning. This provided the leaders to Rush Heroic Epic, FP, Great Library, etc. I will admit, that I am having a difficult time judging our position. The only clear things:
1) Get more cities around the new fp.
2) Hope we can catch the AI trying to settle above the jungle to snag some workers. LK21 and LK22 had a ton of captured workers, and we have gotten almost nothing. This is slowing our development down a lot.
3) The lack of workers is hurting us to build a good road-net, which would help the fight.
4) If we get a leader and Sistine is available before Sun Tzu - rush that. If the AI gets that, they get more happy people and more production - something we don't want.

LK21 had us start in a "U" shaped area, and Japan filled in the "U" before the fight begun. However, at the point we were at a WALL to get past there. It was a major struggle to get even one more city until things broke open- appearance of Samurai let us move some until we hit the Jungle (sound familiar?)

LK22 was to the point that we were running 90% tax and could barely pay for troops - and were still struggling. That had the slowest tech pace I have even seen in a game.

I think this game may be more akin to my last AW game. We were basically isolated from the second continent enough that we could take ours without much of a problem. One of the things that hurt us in that game was not filling in the empty land fast enough. As the AI's ran out of room, we went from being too far away to worry about, to being the place with lots of juicy land still open.
Also, the three civs we face on our continent have only 1 source of iron between the three of them. I no iron has jumped, it is in Greece, which is the farest from us. They are less likely to send troops up just to harass us. We should be careful about hooking up any extra sources of anything that can jump. No sense in lettting the AI's have a bigger chance of getting a gift resource. If the one we have hooked up jumps, we can hook up a spare in time to not disrupt our production that much. The more we control unhooked the less they have.
I had the same problem with the horsemen as you. I wish when I played, I could get the same retreat ratio that the AI seems to have. This is however, probably just a problem of perspective, and not something in the game. I agree that the impis are better hit on the grassland, but the horses get too much movement there. It sounds like you set up an good two tier defense to deal with them were we should.
I think we will probably stay up with tech this game, as I haven't seen the AI start to pull away, and we have contact with at least half of them. Were we will start to fall behind is towards the end of the Middle Ages. Hopefully we won't met the others until we can buy the techs we won't be able to research ourselves during this time. Then we will have to head for the military techs first and then go after the rest of the required techs when they are cheaper to research.
With the three civs bottled in like they are we should be able to clear them without too much trouble. It is almost like we are fighting only one civ. The the Spanish are the onaly ones who may not have tripped their golden age yet (I suspect that is why you and I saw so many impi's). If the worst is over from those two, then we only need to take out Spain before the end of the Middle Ages.
This also brings up the fact that we don't want to trip our GA until we can make the most of it.

Just some random thoughts.......

Got it

Rowain

Turns from 250AD till 350AD

Not very eventful turns. Lost some Units built some Units and killed alot of enemy Units. Also built and started to built Infrastructure mainly Aqueducts.

Please if possible settle on freshwater. Th city NE of Moscaw is 1 tile away from the River and thats not good. We need size 7 cities (they support 4 Units instead of 2) and every Aqueduct costs shields we could need for Units.

On Infra we need Temples Market and Libs and nothing more for a long time.

In the year 280AD the great Leader Hubba emerged :) Saddly he was in the Jungle and it took some turns till he reached a city. The upside is while he was walking to our land Feudalism dropped from the GL and so i proudly present the Sun-Tzu-academy in Karasjok :D;

Thanks to the AI sending settlers we have now 4 new slaves too :)
We have at the moment 3 settlers wandering around I suggest one Settler for the north the other two to the south.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/350ADsouth.jpg

the 2 red spots should be settled and which one you like from the blue spots(or 1 NE of the southern Spot) later on.

The stack 2 tiles south of Karasjok consists mainly of workers (guarded by 2 swords) clearing Jungle. 2 of them have just joined the party so they will need orders next turn.

Reykjavik is on palace. Could be used for Colossus(very good wonder), Sistine or Leo;

And after this long text here it is:

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-350AD.zip)


Good Luck :)

Rowain

In the year 280AD the great Leader Hubba emerged Saddly he was in the Jungle and it took some turns till he reached a city. The upside is while he was walking to our land Feudalism dropped from the GL and so i proudly present the Sun-Tzu-academy in Karasjok


[dance]
Sometimes the timing works well. Of course, Karasjok now has to get high on the priority list for defense;)
Yes, the Jungle fighting makes it hard on using the leaders.


Thanks to the AI sending settlers we have now 4 new slaves too
We have at the moment 3 settlers wandering around I suggest one Settler for the north the other two to the south.


I am glad to see we have finally entered the free worker stage. We have to make sure we leave an area open that they want to go to, especially with all that jungle to clear.


The 2 red spots should be settled and which one you like from the blue spots (or 1 NE of the southern Spot) later on.

Pick the southern blue spot, as that puts the city on spices, and we can clear the jungle from BEHIND the city, which is very good being at war.



LKendter (on deck)
Meldor
Mystery13
Rowain deWolf
Jumbo2002 (currently playing)


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Please if possible settle on freshwater. Th city NE of Moscaw is 1 tile away from the River and thats not good.

Well, I went with no overlap and the defense of the hill on that one...but I think I agree with you anyway. Settling on the river would have been better overall.

Got it.

(0) 350 AD - Check everything...it all looks good to me.

(1) 360AD - Move some units around. Win a couple fights, lose one.

(2) 370AD - More movement. I'm not sure if the units around Umfolozi were intending to take it, or just picking off wandering Zulu units or what. I need to heal up, but then I should be able to take the city.

(3) 380AD - Farsund founded next to the ruins of Valencia.

(4) 390AD - The Zulu are coming on fairly strong, sending two stacks of Archers. I make a few tactical movements for healing and better terrain.

(5) 400AD - Move units around. Harass some Zulu units in the Jungle, preparing for a big battle next turn. Our forces are in position for a strike against Umfolozi. Our galley spots a Spanish Spear/Settler pair near Umtata - free worker opportunity.

(IT) - A Greek galley attacks our Galley. We win, but our galley goes down to 1HP. Will retreat to heal. A couple Zulu archers sacrifice themselves to our MDIs. One of our horses is forced to retreat. A stack of 3 Spanish horses appears on the outskirts of Toledo.

(6) 410AD - Our soldiers dominate in the jungle. We conquer Umfolozi, extending our southern border into the east.

(7) 420AD - More fighting, more dying. (We do the fighting, they (except for one of our horses) do the dying.) Our Army moves into the radius of Ibabanago, revealing a Impi/Archer/Settler trio. Risor founded on northern red dot.

(8) 430AD - Hmm...what was a trio, is now a duo - of just an Impi and Archer? The settler must have ran away into Ibabanago...easy pickings for our Army? Attack...ouch! Our 8/15 Army attacks the (Regular) Impi in Iba, knocks the Impi down to 1HP quickly, then the Impi wins six straight, taking our Army down to 2/15 before the Army finishes the job. A 1HP Impi is all that's left...must've been one that retreated from an earlier battle. Move some units to defend our injured Army. On the eastern side...an elite swordsman attacks that Spanish settler/sword pair from earlier...and in celebration of victory Erik Bloodaxe forms the Order of Jumbo! :hammer: Erik is a short jungle march from Umfolozi, which can build the Hanging Gardens.

(IT) Whew...the game wanted our Army to be the first to fight in its stack. It took a point of damage in victory, down to 1HP. The next Zulu unit that attacked fought an archer of ours (which won).

(9) 440AD - The Impi/Settler pair is on top of a hill, and nothing is in a position yet to take it.

(10) 450AD - We have the Hanging Gardens in Umfolozi. The flip chance should be very low, but I'm leaving several units in Umfolozi. Some needed to heal anyway. Spain has a spearman (with no settler) wandering around. Fauske founded on the blue dot spot on the spices. The Impi/Settler pair has moved off the hill, right in the range of an MDI. Our MDI attacks, the Zulu runs away, abandoning the Settler to us. We have two more workers! We attack and destroy Ibanabago. The Army retreats - it needs city/barracks based healing.

Well, I didn't make many infrastructure improvements (although there are a few in process). Reyk is still on that Palace prebuild that it was on from when I inherited the turn - and it can have the Colossus in 9 turns.

We discovered no new enemy civs during my round.

Our soldiers pushed the front almost to the southern edge of the jungle. I've just finished a few more settlers, but it'll be awhile before they can make it all the way down to the former Zulu territories...speaking of which, Umtata is the only Zulu settlment left north of Spain.

LK35-450AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-450AD.zip)

And a screenshot of the front:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/450AD-Border.jpg

EDIT: Huh? Are my eyes playing tricks on me? I know the graphics mod makes a difference...but Fauske, which according to the previous dotmap would clearly be on a river, now doesn't look to be on one. I'm pretty sure that it still is...but, weird.

Looks like a great turn to me :goodjob:

Fauske is on the River so no problem there

But 2 new slaves, a new wonder and some Zulucites less is great :)



Rowain

450 AD - State of the empire: What a difference a few rounds make, I look at the map and see an all but won game. More workers, a phrase I love to hear :)
The AI are totally hosed, I can't believe it came back to my turn with tech barely budged.

Time to bring out the :hammer:
I veto the cow being that is being mined, and don't like the fact that water never made it to this town.
Farsund to worker, to speed up getting the jungle cleared and spices on the road net.
Cash will help the most, so Reykjavik to Colossus.
Stockholm to Aqueduct, as the temple claims NO new territory.
Molde has horrid corruption, so I switch to courthouse.
Alesund to workers, as we really need to get water to this town. At that point, this city will be a powerhouse.
Moscow has a clown that I want to get rid of, so Cathedral is ordered.

WT? - Our rear guard horsemen are missing, so I switch several cities to horseman.
(I) Greece completes the Colossus AND the Great Lighthouse.


460 AD - Reykjavik switched to Cathedral for happy factor.

470 AD -
(I) Greece contacts use for peace, but they won't even give up a worker!
The Zulu also try for peace.
The people must have loved us saying NO, as the palace expands.
The Greeks start Sistine, so theology is available from one civ. I hope another learns it.

500 AD - [dance] We get a leader, Leif Erickson [dance]
Karistad is formed - not a great location, but will claim a whale with temple, and have some productivity.
The AI is pushing toward Umfolzi heavily, so I rush walls for $20.

510 AD - We finally kill that annoying spearman behind our lines.
(I) The Great Library finally works, and we get engineering and Theology [dance]
PERFECT TIMING as Leif is ready to rush something - Sistine will be ours.

520 AD - Karasjok reports it needs hundreds of years to build Sistine, Leif laughs at the report. He tells us Sistine will appears in just 10 years. Our troops report the destruction of Toledo.
(I) We have a disaster in Umfolizi, as we lost 2 units despite the walls. The town is at risk again next turn to be lost.

530 AD - A demonic hoplite cost us the army that had 9 hp left.
We have to retreat from what was Toledo, as the AI is sending to many units toward Fauske. I have a settler that I want to move forward to help us get past the Jungle. I hit enter and wonder if Umfolzi will survive.
(I) This time the RnG kills both attacking units.

540 AD - I hate burning $136, but I really feel we could use another MI in the south immediately.
(I) It must be my round for Palace expansions, as it happens again.

550 AD - On my final turn, I give a parting gift - the leader Canute II. Meldor can decide his destiny.
We may simple rush a marketplace / aqueduct somewhere, or replace our lost army with a MI army. I have one elite* unit to put in that army. I perform a questionable action, see our galley toward possible land and make contact with the Germans. They are utterly PATHETIC.
I buy there wm for $140, tm and Polytheism
I look at the map, and see China is a joke in size, so I sell Germany Monarchy getting our $140 back, along with contact with China. They have no further value, so WAR is declared.
Mao is a joke, so I simply declare WAR.


Summary -
Leave the rearguard horseman behind our lines! I don't want to lose a city to a lone unit landing and winning destroying a town. The troops are the mountains are NOT weed, the AI loves to land on the high ground and I want to stop them from trying. With world wide contact with really need to improve our behind the line defenses

Our biggest problem is the Jungle. Trying to fight the AI without much mobility is difficult. I have connected Fauske to the road network (gaining spices), but we need to get to the other side of the Jungle.

I made an infrastructure push early turns when I saw nothing for AI units, but I started to switch back to units as some are appearing again.

Karasjok has TWO critical wonders; add the nearby pike for additional defense.

Thanks to Sistine and the spices - marketplace and Cathedral will give us size 12 WLTK cities.

Hopefully no more need to rush anything, as this is one chance to build cash before we have to start researching. When Leo's appears, we want to be in position to upgrade all spearman to pikeman.


LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
This takes priority over LK32.
Mystery13 (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Jumbo2002


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-550AD.zip

Our future powerhouse city - after the hills are mined this city will be able to crank our shields.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-206.jpg


The new southern front:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-207.jpg
If we build the white dot city, and road alone the black line - we will be PAST the jungle. This may happen just in time for mobile knights. Madrid will be in reach, and we can start to do serious damage.

Sistine [dance]

Great the Leaders start coming in :)

I suggest to build Army and to set one Scientist to Invention

Start some Galley-building I want to see the Berzerk-amphibious attack :satan:


I agree that this game is won and soon the :viking: will rule the world


Rowain

I believe the Berserks come with Invention so maybe we go full science to get it, then scale back?

Got it, will play before finishing LK32

Originally posted by Mystery13
I believe the Berserks come with Invention so maybe we go full science to get it, then scale back?

Hmdepends how much money we have but sure after Invention we won't need much research anyway. Looks to me as if the AI not on our Island are very weak.


Rowain

550 AD (Pre-turn)
Being more pro-active than re-active, I wake up some of the troops at Umfolozi. OoJ takes out the impi, and the two MI take out the two archers. This ends the treat for this turn. I look around at all of the MI that we have and think about their future. I looked into the docs, but they say that the MI upgrades to the Guerilla and so does our UU, but I could not find anything to say that for us the MI upgrades to our UU. I would hope so, but then again, it would also mean that one would expect longbows to upgrade to our UU as well. I don't think either of these will happen. The problem for us is that the MI is our best jungle unit. Once we clear the jungle, then knights would be better. The knights can hit the inland cites, while our 'zerkers nail the coastals. That should greatly speed our conquest of the unenlighted. This is the first AW game I have seen in which we had tech parity at this stage. I would hate to give that up. I raise science to get invention, and our UU in 12. The GL will form an army, and I will start a coloseum as a prebuild for Leo's in Moscow. The expense of the research will be offset by the savings from Leo's. The others are starting to boat around us and we also need to fill in the land to the west or we will find ourselves fighting on two fronts and not just the one.
(I) MI falls to Zulu archer. A Greek MI appears out of the jungle.

560 AD (1)
MI fails to kill super archer. Take horse to 1HP. Settler group moving south met several Spanish horses and a spear.
(I) Palace expands. Greeks land sword near capital, second MI comes out of Eretria.

570 AD (2)
Dispatch sword with horse. Kill off archer and send horse packing. Spear is killed.
(I) Super Archer takes out horse. The two Greek MI approach Umfolozi.

580 AD (3)
Batsford is founded and starts building walls. Killer archer is taking out and we get an elite MI from it. Take out Zulu archer and Spanish horse. OoJ takes out one MI and our elite MI takes the other.
(I) Archer attacks MI loses. 4 Spanish horses take out an MI, but 2 retreat and one dies. 2 more Zulu Archers appear.

590 AD (4)
Take out 3 Spanish horses retreat a 4th. Kill two Zulu archers. That leaves only 1 archer and two Horses in sight.
(I) Archer takes out MI, 2 more Greek MI appear and 2 impi. The palace expands again.

600 AD (5)
Kill off the archer, wait on the impis. JoB and MI go back into city and await the Greek MI.
(I) All manner of beasts appear out of the jungle. We now have 4 Greek MI, 3 Impi w/settler. 1 Greek and 3 Zulu archers, 1 Spanish Horseman. The Greeks settle anotheer city on the coast and the front begins to stretch.

610 AD (6)
Get second pike into Batsfjord to relieve MI. Make Impi over setterl retreat, Kill two of the archers, gaining a GL. We kill one of the two remaining impi. Three units, including OoJ leave to confront the Greek MI.
(I) We lose one MI to the archer. The Greek MI turn towards Fauske.

620 AD (7)
With Leo's to be built in 4, I move the leader back towards Moscow. Change Moscow build to MI.
(I) One MI with 3HP holds off 2 impi (killing one), and an archer before being killed by a second archer. The Greek MI reverse course after second pike fortifies in Batsfjord, I would guess there are after the Hanging Gardens again, since the three offensive units moved toward Eretria. Another Greek eyesore appears on our coast.

630 AD (8)
Kill the archer. Found Hammerfest. GL makes it to Moscow, awaiting Leo's in 3.
(I) More troops appear, Greek MI are definitely headed for Umfolozi.

640 AD (9)
I am forced to abandon the attack on Eretria to drop back and defend Umfolozi. Luckily I decided focus on Military this round, as the replacements are starting to reach the front just as the attrition is about to break our lines.
(I) We lose 1 MI to an archer. Strange that the Greek MI move not towards Umfolozi but Eretria. We get invention and start Chivalry (I want knights to counter MI). Drop Science to get it in 12 turns, +33g. The MI that were due this trun conplete without changing to 'Zerkers, this confirms they don't upgrade. Good news is that we are now building 'Zerker and can trigger our GA at an almost perfect time. I would almost wait until we have both Knights and 'Zerkers.

650 AD (10)
Moscow swaps to Leo's, GL rushes, due next turn. Is OoJ (Order of Jumbo" really only a sword? He kills another Greek MI in the jungle. The two MI come through as well, leaving only one Greek MI. Hilocarnassus is razed, it was the newest Greek eyesore. Two more to go. However a settler reaching the coast, spots two American galleys off our shores.

Status of Forces:
Start - End
Workers 36(27) - 41(28) +5(+1) (Native)
Warriors 1 - 1 +0
Spearmen 20 - 20 +0
Swordsmen 1 - 1 +0 (He killed 1 impi and a couple of MI).
Horsemen 8 - 8 +0
Pikemen 14 - 19 +5
Galleys 1 - 1 +0
Armys 0 - 1 +1
Medieval Inf 12 - 22 +10

I did not upgrade our spears as waiting for Leo's saves us 200g, the same goes for our lone Warrior. I refuse to upgrade the Sword. OoJ has performed so well, he deserves to die in battle, but upgrade him if you wish.
Leo's due this turn.
We have a strong military compared with the rest, but combined they can still hurt us. Right now it is mostly a stand off. I manged a little forward progress but not much. 'Zerkers and knights should change that.

LK35 650 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-650AD.zip)

Summary -
Well I am glad for the rear guard horseman :)
It sounds they paid off again.

I won't argue with the research on invention and knights. However, once it is done - STOP!
Once the Great Library is useless, we won't get another chance to stockpile cash - some of the upgrades like horse > knights and pike > musket are expensive even with Leo's.

It sounds like you we facing the same problem I was - the jungle even more so that the AI. It certainly is making it hard to get a lot of leaders as to much time is used in transit to use the leader.


I managed a little forward progress but not much.


Actually, you did make decent progress.
1) You got Batsfjord built - we have a road past the Jungle.
2) You destroyed a city that tried to appear behind our lines.
3) You continued my plan to eventually get roads to Umfolozi. This will be key removing those Greek eyesores.

I still think we have this game won, but it will be a rough journey. A stack of knights and zerks should rip through the Spanish cities.

LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13 (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Jumbo2002


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Domination countdown - Hmmm, still a bit early to start counting ;)

BTW, there is another settler on the east coast. He could have settled the next to the last turn, but I left that for the next person to put them where they will.

Ok, I got it.

Sorry, I'm running a bit behind but will have it by midnight tonight PDT...unless my wife goes into labor before that. :)

An hour late but close enough I think...

Preturn, I move the science slider to pick up Chivalry in 9.
If we are going to invest the beakers, we might as well get
it as quickly as possible. Everything else is ok...we are a
mighty happy people for always being at war!

IT we lose an elite sword to greek MDI...I think our tough
guy finally went down.
We get Leonardo's! Lots of upgrades coming.

Darn, it looks like we're building boats without Harbors.
We'll just have to look after them a little better I guess.

(1)670AD Wow, lots of troops heading to battle. Nothing fun happens yet though.

IT A Greek mini-SOD appears...two Hoplites, four MDI's.

(2)680AD Honningsvag founded on the coast...just before a Greek
settler pair tries.

(3)690AD Do the Zulu only know how to make Impi? They are a pain in the jungle. We kill a Spanish settler pair. I'm building
for a push on Madrid.

IT Greek mini-SOD takes out two MDI. Zulu Impi's moving up and
we will have to eliminate them now.

(4)700AD Positioning

IT We get Education from the GL...at least somebody is doing
some research, bummer that it had to be this one!

(5)710AD We take out many of the Zulu insurrectionists and a newly formed Greek city on the coast.
We eliminated a lot, but a lot more is coming. I'm changing from
Madrid to the Zulu city Amatikulu for now.

IT Curious, Spanish horsemen make three attacks vs MDI, all regular
vs our veterans, two in the jungle, and we lose all three. Bad
dice!!! On a happier note, we have Berserks on the way.

(6)720AD We take, and keep, Eretia. A former Greek colony on OUR coast. Looks like Chivalry was just passed around as it drops to one turn even at 20% science. I will upgrade our civil defense horses and send them South. We will need to replace them with new units (I think it may be necessary to quickly get them to the front).

IT Dammit! I forgot about the Greek warrior behind our lines and
he disbands a worker...just a minute while I take a puff...
We learn Chivalry, set for Gunpowder.

(7)730AD Protecting Eretia, our elite MDI kills an archer and
becomes...mega-MDI. Or at least, Prizzi's Honor. We have
nothing major to rush so I immediately form another army.
A Zulu and a Spanish boat are making their way around...hmmm...

(8)740AD Wow, killing another settler pair we get another
great leader...another army??? Probably not...think I'll send
him back to rush a Marketplace or something.
The Greeks now have a settler pair behind us, up on the Northeast peninsula. Knights dispatched.
I have turned research off, but set a scientist. Next leader can
decide if we research Gunpowder...belay that. We are going to
need Gunpowder eventually and the Great Library won't help us. I go to 30% giving us Gunpowder in 21 and 63gpt. Seems like a good mix.

(9)750AD Note, the save file was saved as 650AD, but my first turn was 670AD...think I'll go back and make sure I didn't do something goofy. Anyway, here is the scoop. We made good progress against the Greek cities on the East coast...though they have a settler walking around farther North. Madrid is safe but not for long...A load of MDI heading that way. Also, there are two boats in Farsund waiting for the 4 Berserks coming down. Now, some cities building high power Berserks, other building highly mobile Knights. Should work well. Great Leader in Karasjok just got there this turn. Amatikulu, Madrid and Marathon should fall next few turns and push the front farther South. Once below the jungle, things should get a bit better. I didn't fill either Army yet. One near Madrid just has the one elite. One near Eretria not filled, but has two or three elite MDI nearby that could fill it.

BTW, I went back and my turn definitely started at 670AD.

the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-750AD.zip

I will check it when I get home, but it should have been 650 AD. If it was my mistake, I will gladly make it up to you on the next round.

I will upgrade our civil defense horses and send them South. We will need to replace them with new units (I think it may be necessary to quickly get them to the front).


Rowain - Please get those replacements ASAP. Don't send any more knights to the front till this is fixed.

I don't want to lose a core city to a unit stray behind our lines. This WILL be fixed by my turn even if I have to abandon the front line to due so.

LKendter
Meldor
Mystery13
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Jumbo2002 (on deck)


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

FYI, I sent 2 South for immed help, 2 East against the settlers and kept the other 4 home for defense. I do believe, though, that the other civs passed around Chivalry completely (I didn't check them all) and we will be facing Knights in the South very soon.

IIRC don't they need iron to make knights? If so, then olny Greece can build them as Spain and Zulu are withoout (unless they buy it from someone else). That is why we have seen only archers, impis and horses from those two.

[EDIT] Also, do the Greeks have a source of horses? Without it they couldn't build them either. Maybe that is why they have sent only archers and MI.

Meldor, no reason to make it up...I just wanted to make sure I didn't skip through a turn by accident.

Also, Greeks have been sending the most and highest powered units...but no horse units. Spain and Zulu have no iron to be sure. If this continues to hold we're in great shape. But, that's why I amended my original and only sent half of our defense force.

and on it goes

Change research to Banking cause we need a strong economy more than a good defender.

Hubba becomes an Army; but I lost one Army before I started Pentagon. [pimp]

Built a lot of Knights and Zerks and since 820 AD we are in our Golden Age.

Greek has sent one or two Knights so far.

Victorys: Marathon was captured;
2 spanish(Santiago, Murcia) and one Zulu(Swazi) coastal cities were razed by 4 zerks on ships :D
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/zerks.jpg

Our Palace expanded twice and we will have Banking soon.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/850AD.jpg


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-850AD.zip)

played with patch 1.14f!!

Sorry Jumbo I forgot to check Happiness
Good Luck :)

Rowain

Some afterthoughts on Research

This is regent so the Ai have no bonus but they will profit from any research we do. So researching Gunpowder would help them to get Muskets earlier and those making our effort to destroy them harder. We on the other side don't need superior defenders cause we attack their offensive units to prevent any danger for our cities.

Usually you would research Gunpowder to get Mil.Trad. and with it Cavs sooner. But we have already an attack 6 Unit we don't need any Cav. As it is it would only give our Enemies an equaly strong Unit.

So what to research then: I would go for Astro to a) Get Cop and those slowing the AI - research and
b) Caravels can carry 3 Zerks :D

All of the above is just my Opinion so feel free to comment, ignore or critisize :)

Rowain

Got it...but will probably not play it until tonight or tomorrow morning (Thanksgiving!). It looks like I get most of the Golden Age Berzerk fun. :cool:

I like the Astro idea. :goodjob: pointing it out. I probably would've defaulted to Gunpowder, normally.

I've got 1.14, so no problem there.

LKendter (on deck)
Meldor
Mystery13
Rowain deWolf
Jumbo2002 (currently playing) Already got it!


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.



I got to look at the game - Where is the opposition?
A stack of Archers and impi is the big attack force?

We have strong military vs. each individual civ.

Some infrastructure improvements, but for the most part my turn was all :hammer:

(0) 850AD - Eretria is the only city with potential happiness issues. I hire a taxman to compensate.

I intend to use our southern Berserk force to take out the western island first, razing Isipezi and keeping Pamplona as a "rest stop" for our Berserks that need to heal.

(IT) The Zulu archer/impi horde advances north. A Spanish horseman lands next to Molde.

(1) 860AD - Kill some Spanish units. Isipezi destroyed. Adjust sliders to get Banking next turn while gaining 200 gold.

(IT) Several Zulu archers sacrifice themselves against the defenders at Fauske.

(2) 870AD - Astro at 8 turns, 109 GPT. 1 Zulu Archer killed. Hmm...the Berserker that laid waste to Isipezi could've stolen a Zulu worker left behind. But it appears that worker disbanded itself. Did workers do this under old Civ3? Pamplona captured, moving Berserks in to rest and heal.

(IT) The Chinese and Germans both want to make peace. Whatever.

(3) 880AD - Artemisium captured. Solo hoplite killed.

(4) 890AD - 1 Zulu Impi killed, we lose one knight.

(IT) Zulu want to talk. Some enemy galleys move around (don't worry, rearguard knights are staying where they are). The greeks land an archer next to Pamplona.

(5) 900AD - Phocaeca (Greek coastal city built on some Spanish ruins) destroyed. We lose one berserker, and the other is damaged. Spanish archer near Pamplona destroyed.

(IT) Ugh...The Greeks landed a Knight near Marathon. No rear guard there.

(6) 910AD - Umtata captured. Zunguin destroyed by Berserker raiding party.

(IT) Whew...the RNG is on our side, and Marathon holds. The Greeks are making a strong push in the east.

(7) 920AD - Waste some invaders. Mpondo destroyed by Berserker raiding party. Attempting to move the workers along the coast, to bring them back north.

(IT) An archer takes out the Berserk that destroyed Mpondo. We now have a free Galley to bring both workers back and refill the galley with Berserks.

(8) 930AD - Moving sliders doesn't give any last turn bonus for Astro. Move some units around...will make a strike at Madrid next turn. There are a lot of damaged enemy units in the eastern part of the jungle, but attacking them would require moving units away from our garrisons.

(IT) Some enemy units attack us and fail. Ack again...I hadn't gotten a knight or MI to Marathon yet, and now the Greeks have landed an archer next to it. Still, our spearman beat a knight last time...
Learn Astro, hmm...I think the point about Gunpowder still holds. We haven't seen any Musketmen yet...and if we should generate another leader, Magellan's would be a nice touch at getting our raiding parties moving faster. I select to research Navigation, 7 turns, 101 GPT.

(9) 940AD - Moving a Knight eastward in case Marathon falls; at least it shouldn't be hard to recapture. Ah, good...there's a two archer stack outside Umtata, so our elite MI can attack without leaving the city. Attack...and Erik Bloodaxe (him, again!) forms...well, might as well be Jumbo's Heir! Erik is safe (all the enemy units are south of Umtata) so he moves north, with a damaged Knight working as an ok escort. He's several turns march from Umfolozi, from where LK will be able to decide what to do with him, including perhaps moving to a more productive city for Copernicus.

The Battle of Madrid is joined! Our Army takes out the first Spear (a Veteran) revealing a regular spear. A Knight attacks, and retreats. Another Knight attacks, and wins. An undamaged regular spear is still there. Some reinforcement knights move up to the mountain, from which they will enter the Battle of Madrid next turn.

Vitoria (Spanish replacement coastal city) destroyed.

(IT) Our Spear at Marathon holds. One of our Knights will move towards Marathon to maintain that garrison better. Our defending Army at Umtata defeats one foolish attacker.

(10) 950AD - The Battle of Madrid continues...our Army attacks, winning. And our reinforcement Knights attack...and Madrid is destroyed! [party] I briefly considered keeping it, but I thought the flip chance would be too high. We also now have 6 more workers. :smoke: by me though, not having settlers ready to go in this territory. Still, our Knights, now operating outside of the jungle, should be able to pick off any wandering pairs.

Swazi (zulu replacement city) destroyed. Isandhalwana destroyed. Ok...Berserkers are pretty good. :viking:

A few notes:

Zimbabwe appears to be the only Spanish or Zulu city left with a border radius>1.

As far as I can tell, we don't have any harbors, so no galley->caravel upgrades. A caravel will finish this turn in Birka, though.

Two settlers in production: one in Karasjok, one in Bergen.

The two pikemen in the galley are headed for Pamplona, which (as noted earlier) is intended to be a Berserk rest stop. Once we can cross Oceans (in 6 turns), all but 2 Chinese cities can be attacked by our Berserks. (Of course, China can be reached from the eastern part of Greece, too.)

LK35-950AD.zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-950AD.zip)

Some Screenshots:

The War in the West (that spear has an archer under it, BTW):

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK950AD-West.jpg

The War in the East:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK950AD-East.jpg

A zoomed-out view of the devastation just a few galleys worth of Berserks can do. :viking:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK950AD-Ruins.jpg

I love the view of Ruins :D

Good :hammer: here

Soon the entire World will shake in fear at the sign of a :viking: -ship

As in Real world no coastal cities are save :D



Rowain

(IT) Ugh...The Greeks landed a Knight near Marathon. No rear guard there

The AI cheats and knows your military deployment. It will go after the weakest point, so you can’t leave one.


950 AD - WT? Molde was running at a food shortage? I also switch to harbor, something it needs to grow.
Budo 50% corrupt - switch to courthouse.
Karsjok is growth-stuck - switch to aqueduct.
Umtata to temple - culture conflict.
Tromso to marketplace - simply to get it under the GA.
Moscow, Trondheim to bank - we can always use more income.
Birka, Copenhagen to library - simply to sneak one in during the GA.
In addition - a lot of cities were horrid shield configuration for units 28 shields building pikemen, etc.

960 AD - We continue to go Berserk - the new Zulu city of Ibabango is auto-razed.

990 AD - Erik finished his journey, and rushes Copernicus’s in Trondheim, our #1 revenue city that just completed a bank. I love perfect timing.
The ding-dong Greeks again try for Marathon - knight vs. archer is a joke.
Haugesund is formed, an junk ice city, but closer to domination.
I rush a harbor in Batsjford to give up galleys a close upgrade point.
We go Berserk on Tugela and raze it.
(I) Economics in 5, can we get 2 leaders and get Smith’s and Magellan’s?
Trondheim goes for University to get maximum science effect.

1000 AD - Our knights auto-raze Amatikulu - pity I would like a couple of cities to keep the fighting SOUTH of the jungle.

1010 AD - Screw it, I don’t want to deal with flips - Barcelona is razed.

1020 AD - Lee’s Knights are formed, and Leif Erickson arrives during the capture of Zaragoza. Since Spain is almost dead, I keep the city. Umtata will have a great naval voyage - Magellan’s.

1030 AD - I just found a new use for Berserks - amphibiously steal a worker.
We smack the coastal city of Ulundi out of existence.

1040 AD - In a fit of silliness, the Greeks build a city next to our Berserk that razed Ulundi.
That Berserk, Truly Berserk, gives us a leader 10+ turns from home :crazyeye:
I never thought I would do this, but I disband Canute II. He is 10+ turns from home, and I think we can get a nearby leader before then. Salamanca is captured, just 1 Spanish city left.

1050 AD - What the? I take Seville which had just ONE defender.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-212.jpg


There area formally know as Spain
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-213.jpg


Summary - I did get a some land push done, as concentrate on infrastructure as I wanted to take advantage of the GA to squeeze in more infrastructure.

LKendter
Meldor (currently playing)
Mystery13 (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Jumbo2002


Remember, 10 turns per round from know on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Domination countdown - hard to say, I miss map stat.
However, we definitely need our continent 100% owned, plus some of the other continent.
Also, this might wind up a conquest victory!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-1050AD.zip

Hi Lee

Why going for Domination?

Wipe them out. All of them :hammer:


Lets go for Conquest. So we can save our shields for Zerks instead of Settlers.


Rowain

Originally posted by Rowain deWolf
Hi Lee

Why going for Domination?

Wipe them out. All of them :hammer:


Lets go for Conquest. So we can save our shields for Zerks instead of Settlers.


Rowain


Usually you can get Domination *BEFORE* conquest, and I play for the quicker military victory. More settlers have other advantages to - the captured city got us furs, another city in the area gets us gems. You don't know where the future resources will pop up.

Each player will have his own goals to a degree in a sg, but during my turns I will be pushing settlers / domination. We have enough cash to start rushing temples once we get to the other continent.

Besides, the AI has hit gunpowder, so the defense will be getting stronger. By the time we can hit the interior of the other landmass - riflemen will be there, and zerks won't be that powerfull.

To be honest, I pushed knights more to take out the non-coastal cities.


On the other hand, screw hospitals. Our size 12 cities will do the job.

Got it

Originally posted by LKendter

Usually you can get Domination *BEFORE* conquest, and I play for the quicker military victory.

Not necesseraly is the Domination faster. You must build lots of Settlers instead of military and lots of temples too. Looking at the map I'm not quite sure that Domination will come easier or faster then Conquest.


More settlers have other advantages to - the captured city got us furs, another city in the area gets us gems. You don't know where the future resources will pop up.


Going for Conquest does not mean to ignore good settling spots.
Even going for Conquest I would settle Resource or Lux- rich Locations and the one or other Stronghold to heal our Units.


Besides, the AI has hit gunpowder, so the defense will be getting stronger. By the time we can hit the interior of the other landmass - riflemen will be there, and zerks won't be that powerfull.


If we kill Greek and Germany before they reach industrial; I doubt we will meet rifles.


Each player will have his own goals to a degree in a sg, but during my turns I will be pushing settlers / domination.


Lee you are the Captain here and when you say go for Domination I will do so. Afterall we have another Game running which is clearly dedicated for Conquest so no problems here ;)


Rowain

Actually, America is the biggest danger.
Germany needs education, and can offer nothing.
America and Greece need banking / navigation and can offer gunpowder.
China is a joke.

This could still wind up conquest - we shall see what happens. We still have the mystery zone of water, and there could be some islands sitting out there with units that could take a long time to find.

Like I said before Also, this might wind up a conquest victory!

What I have decided - in human hands, the berserk is to powerful of a unit.

No matter what, this game is over before tanks ;)

1050 AD (Pre-turn)
Nada.
(I) Greek galley sinks our caravel in the north, hopefully it wasn't full of 'Zerkers.

1060 AD (1)
Delphi had a Musket, Delphi is no more. Hook up spices. Science to 10%
(I) We get economics and start Gunpowder.

1070 AD (2)
Capture Knossos, it has the only Greek horses that I find on the map. This will stop them from building knights for a time being. Sarpsborg built on coast with cow and wheat.

1080 AD (3)
Cpture Intombe near some incense. Hlobane is ours as well.

1090 AD (4)
Skip Argos and take Mycenae instead, we now have a foothold on the other landmass.
(I) America lands a sword near Mycenae.

1100 AD (5)
We dispatch the sword.
(I) America lands 2 swords next to Mycenae.

1110 AD (6)
We dispatch one of the swords. Argos is razed.
(I) Knight and sword attach, knight wins sword loses.

1120 AD (7)
Ngome captured, Zimbabwe captured. Lillehammer founded on coast to fill a gap. Kill America Knight. Get pike off of galley and fortified in Mycenae.
(I) More Knights appear and two Greek archers.

1130 AD (8)
Bapedi is liberated and the Zulu nation is no more. I had thought we could use Mycenae to get troops back up to fighting strength but it is not to be. All units are loaded into galleys and the city is abandoned.
(I) Get gunpowder go for Music Theory. Bach's would be nice.

1140 AD (9)
Mostly movement. There is a fllet of galleys with workers headed back to were the workers will do more good and the galleys can be upgraded. The 'Zerker fleet continues forward to pound the rest of the Greek coastal cities. Prepare to assualt Sparta next turn. When Sparta falls the Greeks won't have any native iron left.
(I) Nada

1150 AD (10)
Movement. The Chinese are intorduced to the 'Zerker. Tientsin is assualted by three, all three win. However there is a unit in there weaker than a galley as a galley defender shows as the top unit.

I had no GL this turn, bad luck.
There are some 'Zerkers moving to fill the caravel in Oslo.
Smiths is building in Trondheim due in 32.
Palace pre-build in Aarhus.
There are 5 knight posed to take Sparta next turn. I took an extra turn rather than attack acorss the river.
Music Theory in 3 turns.

Remember, we can cross ocean now so don't make the long trip around, cut across and do some damage.

LK35 1150 AD Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK35-1150AD.zip)

[EDIT} Turn Number