Post here when you finish your turn to notify the other players that you have sent them their turn.

It starts! :D

NH1_4000BC sent to Borealis...

Oh yes, and I almost forgot...the rule is that you cannot have any private, strategic conversations via e-mail, instant messaging, private messaging, in real life, over the telephone, etc. with a player until you have contact with his civilization inside the game. This adds some realism to the diplomacy and discovery aspect and is generally regarded as the only fair way to play.

If you are unclear on this rule, then just ask for me to explain it in more detail.

Everyone in this game should have received an e-mail with the contact information for all players in this game and some other information. If you did not get such an e-mail, let me know.

Originally posted by Essex
Over to you Sash.

Hope everyones start position is as nice as mine. :cool: I had a good one too! My first good start in a PBEM game yet. :eek:

I sent the game 5 hours ago... I'll be able to play my next turn around 4 PM. Nice start as well.

Alright, for whatever reason, the turn did not go over (it still says 4000 BC for me).

My first inclination is to believe someone saved the game, and then quit when they were done, rather than ending their turn, and having the pop-up come up which asks to "Save & Exit" or "Continue" and tells you to send it to the next player.

This is bad because I can't tell my worker what to do. So I don't just want to play the turn and go on. I want this bad boy to work.

So if someone did do what I just described above, as opposed to ending their turn - and then saving when prompted by the game, will you please play your turn again, and send it to the next player in line so we can get this thing working?

Also...please make all saves in the following format:

NH1_YEARtoPlayer.sav

For example:

NH1_4000BCtoBorealis.sav

I am in multiple PBEM games, so having this format helps me out a lot.

Now, if I'm wrong, and everyone saved and exited the game the right way, then I will send turn one to Borealis again.

I saved & exited when prompted. Also, something NH mentioned in the email might also help: turning on Always Wait at end of turns both helps you make sure all moves are made and that you are 'aware' that you need to Save & Exit.

Edit: I have 1.04 installed.

I also used Save and Exit.

I also have version 1.04 installed.

Hi, just got home from work. Running 1.04f. I probably didn't exit the right way (now I know). Next file name will be in the proper format, I just saw how you wanted it.

I have a volleyball tournament tomorrow, so I'll be able to squeeze in turns until 6:30 AM , then I will leave. When I get home (as late as possible, I want to win tomorrow) I'll be sure to play if the game has been sent. Is everyone in the same time zone? I am in -5GMT I think (Montreal, New York...) Over.

I'm in the Pacific Time zone.

So Sashaddin, did you try reloading the game i sent you, taking your turn and exiting the right way then sending that save file to Napolean?

I am Central Time Zone...that's one hour behind Sash, and two ahead of Essex.

I'm in the Eastern Time Zone... same as Sash I think.

I sent the game to Napoleon. Congrats to Carthage for attaining size 2. Some of us don't have as much food around... :(

I'm also size 2. :)

Sent to the other size 2 civ. ;)

I thought you other two said that you had good starting spots? You should see my starting spot in my first PBEM game ever. "Horrible" doesn't begin to describe it. There is no food in just about any direction from my capital in that game.

Sent to Essex. I have what might be called a decent starting spot, with sufficient development. ;)

'Good' Starting spot doesn't mean immediately good... not for me at least. But wait until 1975 AD, my capital will kick all of yours... :P Seriously, it could have been much better, but I'm not too disappointed. C'mon Essex, send it my way!

LOL sorry sash, Wednesday is the one day of the week I'm away from the comp for long periods.

Anyways game is sent on.

As for starting spot, well I sort of forgot that flood plains need to be irrigated before they'll give you an extra food and had my worker improve a grassland spot first.

But since I'm industrious, don't worry I'll be humming soon :lol:

To Napoleon. Got a free tech from a hut. Not too bad...

Lucky...I got lousy maps of the surrounding terrain. :rolleyes:

Guess that beats barbs though. ;)

3550 BC to Borealis.

Got free tech from a hut. :)

On to Essex.

Lucky bastards, I got 25 gold :(

There's another hut on the horizon though.

Turn passed on to sashaddin.

It does work. That hill was hard and long to climb, but there wasn't much behind it.

And it's on to sashaddin.

Popped 2 huts today, the first spawned 3 angry pissant warriors who I'm hoping try to take out my warrior on a mountain rather than wandering back towards my city to cause trouble.

The second gave me a tech :goodjob:

Turn passed on to Sashaddin.

Those barbarians turned out to be cowardly cowards.

2 of them just sat still while one is heading towards my capital.

My brave warrior eradicated one of the cowards although he took grievous wounds in the process. A medal is in the process of being minted. My other warrior has had to sidetrack from his initial mission of exploration in order to intercept the infidel barbarian heading for our capital.

Essex, you have to learn to speak to those natives! Instead of attacking me, they just decided to give me one of their best warriors to further my cause. I would have preferred a tech, but they were still a bit on the dumb side... It's Napoleon's turn to play now!

Game recieved and passed on to sash.

I'd say 1 hut giving 3 belligerent barbrarian brutes (bbb's) and 1 hut giving a tech is fair, not lucky :)

Speaking of which my 2nd warrior managed to take out the 2nd of those barbarians without getting scratched. That still leaves me one bad guy floating around out there to take care of.

I didn't realize that your third pop unit was unhappy at the regent setting. I would have left a warrior in my capital if I had. Oh well, forces me to make a settler a little earlier than I would have liked but I'll get over it.

Game to Napoleon. Got another free tech! Whee! Got one more hut to pop soon, looks like I hit the jackpot.

I didn't know about the third pop, I thought it was always the second one growing unhappy. Gives me one more warrior to find huts... :)

3100 BC to Borealis...

I always leave at least one guy in my city so that if some barbarian or civilization should stumble upon it, they won't find it free for the taking. ;)

The world might be warm but Essex is cold... Send me the game, will ya? Pretty please? With sugar on top?

I sent the game to Napoleon. I already know nine techs and my advisor says I'm moderately advanced. It's 2700 BC, I hope nobody's into Medieval already...

Wow...nine huh?

2710 BC sent to Borealis.

Yeah, nine. I stumbled upon many huts, 2/3 of them giving me techs and the rest warriors. I could have used some 25 gold though, to spend a bit more on science... Having many warriors around to explore is a bit costly :( Happy weekend everyone!

Ok, I'm going to be clamping down on excess posts. If there's anything that you need forum-wise (i.e., a double post ;)), please pm a moderator. If you need to email a team member, use the email they provided.

So no more simple, turn passed on posts eh? Or will you just delete them all if the thread gets too big?

Anyhoo, turn passed on an hour ago to Sashaddin.

9 Techs :eek:

That's obscene luck.

I don't think I've seen half that many huts never mind getting that many techs.

If you do say "On to so-and-so", try to write what went on in that turn.

Originally posted by Chieftess
If you do say "On to so-and-so", try to write what went on in that turn. That violates the rules of this game though, which is no talking about the game with a player until you have met that player in the game. Once we all meet, that will be fine, but for now, that stuff is secret.

Okay, I won't do it again. I promise. ;)
Btw, Napoleon is up to play.

Then atleast report when each round has passed, and give general info, or try to make a story out of it to keep it interesting.

You could even make up your own civ's culture, language, etc.

The great Spanish natiôn häs sìnt the turn to Borealis in the wee hoùrs ov de mörning. ;)

The people of Japan flocked to their ruler in recognition of his good work and begun to lay down the firsts bricks of what is going the greatest palace no ruler ever had. Go Japan!
(palace face, far east style)
Spain is up!

ƒä× dì Borealis.

Translation: Turn sent to Borealis.

ƒä× dì Borealis.

Did you get the file, Borealis?

I still haven't received anything... So it's stuck at either Essex or Borealis.

Edited to avoid spam: I sent the game on sometime this afternoon/night again... Essex should have it. If you don't get it, Essex, email me so I'll know to resend it right away, as I don't check CFC first thing when I wake up. :D

Sorry borealis but I haven't received the game.

My apologies for not posting earlier. Been a busy day and haven't had time to get to the forum.

I think you should email her, Essex, from her lasts posts I sense she put the ball in your hands... Unless you sent me the game in which case I have not received it of now...

I'm relieved this game is still alive, because it's my only PBEM... If anyone knows of another game that's starting, please let me know. I can handle two of them alright.

Originally posted by Sashaddin
I'm relieved this game is still alive, because it's my only PBEM... If anyone knows of another game that's starting, please let me know. I can handle two of them alright. You can get in on a game that is already in progress here (http://www.civgaming.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1848).

What is going on with this game anyways? Whose turn is it?

Essex sent me a turn I had already played but that he said was his newest, so I told him to drop a line to Borealis to get the most recent game. Haven't heard from him since. Thanks for the link!

I have his email, but I'm unable to get my Civ computer (this is my family's comp) connected to the Net just yet as I just arrived home after final exams. I should be able to send the most recent game I have again to Essex tomorrow. Sorry about the delay.

Ok, who has the game now? Is this game dead?

I hope it is not dead, but my guess is that the ball is in Essex's court still.

Just like in that other game you hooked me up with. So he's got the turns for both games now. I sure hope he's still interested in playing... and that his wealth is well too. I had a fire here late in the evening the 23rd, I guess anything could happen...

The game's not dead, as far as I know... I haven't received anything, and I've been out of Net contact due to the local phone company's tardiness in fixing our phone line. If all else fails, send your most recent turn on- if we can all agree to replay one turn in case we've seen it before, we can at least get the ball rolling again. The most recent date I've seen is 2630BC, which I've sent to Essex. If you've seen any date after this, send it on to the next person in your list. :)

Essex sent a mail to the leader of the other game we're playing saying he doesn't want to play anymore. Shall we find a replacement or give his civilization to the AI?

Well, I e-mailed Essex. Hopefully, I will get a response from him.

Okay, he e-mailed me and asked to be replaced.

Now my question to the 2 of you is, do y'all want to continue the game, or let it die? Vote on this, and if there is a tie, then I will cast the tiebreaking vote.

If we end up continuing the game, I will try to find a replacement for Essex ASAP.

Continue! :nuke:

Continue, please.

Okay, continue it is. I will look for a replacement.

Good news: WildFire444 is going to take over for Essex. :)

All players, check your e-mail inboxes for an update.

Turn sent to Borealis, yesterday....forgot to post.

Sent to Sashaddin.

2550 BC sent to Laser.
WildFire, I like your signature.... it's a bit like mine ;)

2550 BC sent on to the Alis that bores. ;)

Originally posted by Napoleon Hitler
2550 BC sent on to the Alis that bores. ;)

Ungh.... My head! My head! :wallbash:

:p Heh, nice try.

Alis that bores, did you play your turn yet? (alright, not that bad a pun, Napoleon)

I did... I sent it the night NH sent it to me... email must have gone missing. I'll resend. :(

I hope WildFire isn't pulling an Essex on us :cry:

I would NEVER do that Sashaddin!

Plus i havent gotten the game back yet....

Originally posted by WildFire444
I would NEVER do that Sashaddin!

Plus i havent gotten the game back yet....

Good to know you won't quit! But... If Borealis sent you the game and you didn't receive it, where is it?

Borealis: Send it to Tous@excite.com cause i still am not recieving it!

Resent again to above email address. The rest of my email seems to be getting where it should, so this should get there soon- if not, email me so we don't clutter up the board.

Ok i got it. Just keep sending it there ok? I will send it when i get home from school.

To Napoleon who will play 2510 BC. Let's get this game rolling! :b

2510 BC has been sent on to Borealis.

Back to Napoleon!

2470 BC to Borealis.

Borealis, did you pass the game?

Argh. I seem to be having email problems... I know I passed the game, but I'll try again. I don't usually post in the thread to say I passed it, to avoid spam, but I usually send it off within at least 24 hours if not sooner. I'll resend to WildFire's other email address.

:( Where's the game?

I have to play it. Sorry, will send As soon as possible (homework :( )

And it is Sashaddin's turn!

Napoleon's up!

Now the game is on some computer at the University of Michigan.

And back to Napoleon!

And sometime late yesterday, I sent it to Borealis.

Wildfy, Borealis, does either of you have to play yet? It's been four days...

The game hasnt appeared in either of my email inboxes :(

Borealis? :eek:

Argh. I've received hints that my email may not be working properly... and this confirms it. I'll try resending later after I have a little chat with the IT guys here, and if that doesn't work, I'll have to withdraw from the game so you guys can continue. :( I don't want to hold everyone up.

Can't you get a Hotmail or a Yahoo account? It would be simpler... no?

Yes, please get a free e-mail account or notify us if you need to drop out.

Also guys, please do not send it to Tous_at_excite.com anymore. It seems to be getting some unwanted messages.... Just try and send it to wildfire4848_at_yahoo.com

If that don't work, I'll give you another one :)

I have a free email account, but with the problems I've had with erratic computer time, odd hours of the day, etc., I feel it's best for the rest of you if I drop out. I just read Matrix's essay on how to keep a PBEM moving quickly, and it seems like I'd drag you down even more with my current schedule. I apologize for dropping out, and taking a long time to decide to do so, but until this week, I thought I would be able to get to this computer and my email at a consistent time. Good luck to all of you, especially the replacement at the helm of the Carthagnian nation!

Sad to see you deciding to go, Borealis. Even though a part of me is a bit happy because this game has a chance to pick up in speed now. Don't quit Civ 3 altogether, eh? ;)

I would be able to take over from Borealis if it is OK with you guys.
Normally I can play b/w 7:30am-8:30am (GMT) weekday mornings and most evenings 5:00pm-6:00pm. However.... quite often I'm not availible on weekends.

digger760

Oh and its PTW - UK version 1.14

Digger looks fine to replace Borealis.

Edited for more clarity...

Has this game died?:(

Let's hope not! :eek:

Sure, you can replace Borealis. Sorry for the delay. Busy with other games...;)

Anyways, let me send her an e-mail and get her password for ya.

I will need you to post your e-mail or send me a private message so I can notify the other players how to contact you.

Alright, we should be back on track now. I've sent an updated contacts list to all players - let me know if you don't get one of those, and I sent 2390 BC to digger760.

Went awol on the weekend, would'nt you know it I get 2 PBEM sent to me Friday night just after I left. Anyway plyaed them this morning and sent this one onto wildfire...Wildfire? has he(she?) taken over for essex?

As far as the game...Yikes...think I might be in the deep end, the score has me in last place.

digger760

He :p

I will send it after I am through shoveling. Which could take awhile :(

Sent, ungaurded settler? :evil:

I WILL

Originally posted by WildFire444
I will send it after I am through shoveling. Which could take awhile :(

It's way too cold here to have snow... ;) Turn played and sent to Laser.

2350 BC on to digger760.

YAY!!

This one is actually going good now. Lets keep it that way.

Keep this one up? Sure!

And digger760 should have it again...

Played and sent.

This game seems to be moving quite well again. :) Sent.

Any ideas how to change the password in PBEM. I've got the game but me and the password are in 2 different places, don't worry shall get it by 11GMT. Eventually I'm going to loose Borelais's password (and its one that I could never remember) then we are in trouble:(

digger

Write it down on your hand for a few days and try to committ it to memory. Also, make a sticky and leave it BEHIND your computer. :D

2230 BC sent to digger760, btw.

Sent to Laser.

2190 BC to digger760.

Round again!

2150 BC to digger760.

The last go round was unproblematic. That's good. 2110 BC to digger760.

2070BC sent.

2070 BC to digger760.

And around again. 2030 BC to digger760.

1990BC to Laser in version 1.21f. Because that's the format I received it into. Is that alright with everyone?

Originally posted by Sashaddin
1990BC to Laser in version 1.21f. Because that's the format I received it into. Is that alright with everyone?

Not really, I can't use the 1.21 patch cos I have the UK version, (I beleive the copy protection scheme is different and that is the main problem).

Then we will need WildFire to replay using the 1.14f version. Let's hope Firaxis gets other patches out soon! :eek:

Edit: Named the wrong player

I kinda dont feel like uninstalling 1.21f. I do play online ;)

It's NOT complicated. It's NOT tedious. I do it all the time. Uninstalling 1.21f and installing 1.14f takes me LESS THAN 30 SECONDS. And I only have a P3 1000 MHz! Then you patch your game back to 1.21f for, again, LESS THAN 30 SECONDS and we can continue that game. How about that? I do it twice a day, you'll get used to it.

True ;)

Just that laziness striking again. So I have to replay it with 1.14.

Originally posted by WildFire444
True ;)

Just that laziness striking again. So I have to replay it with 1.14. Excellent! I like this game, I would have hated to see it stopped until a new patch was released... :crazyeye:

Hmmmm....well, I sent it to digger760 in v1.21f, that probably won't be loading for him. ;)

So be ready for the next save...and this is good...I can just leave my stuff as v1.14f now, since I never play online. (no more switching back and forth).

I don't play online either. I found it slow and hard to play. It was simoultaneous though.

Just to confirm that the 1.21f save that was sent to me dons'nt load, so I think its wildfire to try 1.14 again

Well I DO play 1.21 with a good ping and I will try to play with the 1.14 when I have a chance.

v1.14f of turn 1990 BC sent to digger760.

Yep, thats better. FYI I'm away for the weekend, won't be able to play again till Monday Morning GMT

PS played and sent to Wildfire.

digger

Hello? Is there anybody in there?
/pink floyd

Originally posted by Sashaddin
Hello? Is there anybody in there?
/pink floyd

In where;)

You didnt get it Sashaddin? Guess I'll send it again.

I still haven't received it. Don't forget that my email is ended in .ca and not in .com :)

what is the hold up?....I read somewhere that wildfire lost PTW access. is this true/still true

?

I never lost access....

I had sent it to sashaddin with 1.14 about 4 days ago.

Originally posted by WildFire444
?

I never lost access....

I had sent it to sashaddin with 1.14 about 4 days ago.

I read it on annares website under your forum. but sounds like guess you got access again.

Hmm that means you sent on the 15th. I suppose either Sashaddin or Napolean has got it.

I guess I have to be patient.

Napoleon is on Spring Break for the week. When I sent him the turm he was already gone so this game won't be moving until the week-end.

Oh, sorry digger, I read it wrong. Yeah, I was parental banned for a day and went to a hockey game on Friday so I wasnt available. Going to another hockey game this friday too :)

1950 BC to digger760. :)

Sorry for any delays, Spring Break was fun. ;)

1910 BC making the rounds...

1870 BC to digger760.

Sent to Napoleon. I hate the background music here.

lol...I think those are ads.

1830 BC to digger760.

1790 BC to digger760...

Man, that stupid ad froze IE. :mad:

Go away, stupid ad! Turn sent.

Man...these ads suck, 1750 BC sent to digger760.

Sent to Laser.

1725 BC to digger760.

1700BC sent.

1700 BC sent to digger760.

1675 BC sent to digger760...not 1625 Sash. ;)

I sent 1675 on last night but noticed the sav file was named 1625, I thought that was my mistake, maybe then it was'nt.

Anyway its named 1675 now.

1650 BC sent to digger760.

1625 BC making the rounds.

1600 BC round again...

1575 BC to digger760.

1550 BC to digger760.

1525BC to Laser.

1525 BC to digger760.

I'll be away Sat-Sun-Mon, hopefully UK 1.21 will be released by the time i get back (when pigs fly)

1500 BC to digger760. Sorry for delay, busy busy busy.

1475 BC to digger760.

Maybe we should post pics so that others could get interested ;)

1450 BC to digger760. Feel free to post whatever you want.

I have my own spoiler thread at www.danwilliamson.net/forum :D

Oh yeah, and none of you guys can look at it!

1425 BC to digger760.

My spoiler thread is here...

standard rules apply no players allowed

http://www.danwilliamson.net/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=21

turn 1425BC sent to wildfire

1400 BC sent to digger760.

1375 BC to digger760.

1350 BC to digger760.

1300 BC to digger760.

1275 BC to digger760.

I must admit I forgot myself to post to say the game was sent, but.... where is the game now? It's been a while...

i sent 1275 turn to wildfire on the 10th of may, but just incase he never got it i've just sent it to him again.

I had never gotten it and sent it yesterday. Sorry for delay because I was also not able to access Civ from Wednesday night to Friday.

1250BC sent to Napoleon. I'm glad to see this game is moving again! :)

1250 BC to digger760.

Wildfire should have 1250BC now.....Just for readers interest can i post the top 5 cities screen (excluding my demographics)????

Go right ahead

1225 BC to digger760.

i am from germany and do not consider that a funny nick at all :rolleyes:

1225 to Wildfire,

I would post a pic of the top5 cities but i don't know how to insert an image

EDIT: figured the image insert, thanks to the search facility

http://civfanatics.net/uploads4/nh1_top5.jpg

Welcome to Kyoto! 1200BC sent to Laser.

1200 BC sent to digger760.

And pandora, I am not from Germany. Also, the name was not meant to be funny. I chose it because this is a civ website and Napoleon and Hitler were 2 of the greatest conquerors in European history. If it offends you, sorry.

1175 BC to digger760.

1150 BC to digger760.

1150 sent to wildfire, by the way i have patched to dual boot so 1.21 or 1.14 patch works for me now, except i need to put the cd in for 1.21.... that cd drive sends me mad :mad: with its jet engine

1125 BC to digger760. I am still stuck with 1.14, so please keep sending the game in that format until the whole world is 1.21

Once we do get the 1.21 patch available, I would like to upgrade though :)

1100 BC to digger760.

1075 BC to digger760 and it looks like a Spanish sandwich is on the menu. :/

1050 BC to digger760. As luck would have it, those temples are good for something. The people in Barcelona must have been praying hard. :lol:

1025 BC to digger760.

Btw, for the people who care...

I have also declared war on the evil Spanish and I have taken Murcia from the evil despotic Spanish.

Go lone archer!

Wow. It's nice to hear news... ;)

Just because no one has found you yet :p

1000BC! Happy Millenium! :D

1000 BC to digger760. The evil Spanish? Your Persians are pagans...how can you claim such things? Not only that, but you attacked Spain unprovoked. You are lucky we are a peace loving people. :p

my definition of provoked in civ is to have all the land around me grabbed by the opposition...so by my definition you provoked wildfire ;)

I wouldnt be talkin you backstabbing idiot. I thought we were going to be aligned to take him down.

Oh well, at least we still have our diplomatic relations.

Oh wait, no we don't.

Happy happy joy joy....
975BC sent to Napoleon.

I've got a rhyme: WildFire is a liar. :p

975 BC to digger760.

This is the part where I wish I had Sashaddin's starting position. ;)

My Immortals are getting itchy. They dont like it when their great leader Xerxes is called a liar :evil: You saw what our archer did, imagine what a couple of Immortals could do.

where is the sav???

I sent it to you....sending again.

i played this turn already...i sent to wildfire again just incase...were is sash? normally he/she post here if he/she does'nt get it

I just got it, played it, sent it. What happened is beyond my understanding. And by the way, I'm a he ;)

i have sent the 950BC turn to wildfire, it is in 1.21 format

EDIT there is something screwy with the time stamp of these posts. I posted this after NH's post about updating to 1.21

950 BC onward...

Edit: also....let's all upgrade to v1.21 now that it is available to all.

To Napoleon, in 1.21f.

925 BC to digger760 in 1.21f.

900BC To Napoleon.

900 BC to digger760.

i sent the 900BC turn to wildfire 2 days ago...So who has it now?

I was not able to play it. Will play it in a few.

850 BC to digger760.

825BC to Napoleon.

825 BC to digger760.

and 825 to wildfire

800BC sent to Laser. I have a new email address for contact.
It's sashaddin AT cgocable.ca

i have not seen the 800BC turn yet :(

I was away for the weekend as were you...

its been 5 days, i dont think weekends has anything to do with it. My only guess is that NH has gone on holidays.

I just got it today, and sent it to you a few minutes ago.

775 BC to digger760.

750 BC to Napoleon!

730 BC to digger760.

710 BC to digger760.

To Napoleon. :)

670 BC to digger760.

650 BC to digger760.

630 BC to digger760.

Sent to Napoleon.

610 BC to digger760.

And WildFire, those troops on my border don't look very nice.

:evil:

Wait til you see who's coming :D

590 BC To Napoleon.

590 BC to digger760......and may the commoners pray very hard at the temple that the Immortals be very mortal. ;)

That would be Spain's only hope huh?

You gotta wonder why your makin a temple though.

Temples work, just ask Carthage. ;)

Well, hello everyone! I see things are heating up...

Game sent to Napoleon.

Game sent to Napoleon. Not much posting around here... :(

sorry sash don't get much time in the morning before work to post here. So i just focus on sending on PBEM's.

I see i have been sold to you as a contact. looks like were all one happy family now. Thanks to my discovery of polyethism, it has now been gracefully handed to the GL for distribution in foreign lands.

And for the record 550BC has been sent to wildfire.

Onto sashaddin. War looms in the near future.

530 BC sent to digger760.

The people of Spain will be praying that your Immortals die before they can cross the border. ;)