Everyone knows Bach is, by a pretty hefty margin, the greatest composer ever.

But the battle for #2 and #3 between Mozart and Beethoven is pretty close, IMO.

Who do you pick and why?

I voted for Beethoven. I had to dock Mozart for writing such undignified songs as "Lick my 'Behind'" and "Lick my 'Behind' right well and clean." Plus I really like Beethoven's 9th Symphony.

I think that had Mozart lived as long a both Bach and Beethoven did, he would easily be considered the greatest composer to ever live, since what he did in such a short period of time is just truly amazing. No one is able to match his output and most of his greatest works are those towards the end of his life. He was able to creat many great works in period when it was very restrictive to be writing music, since you had to write it in a certain style for your clients. Bach had much more freedom to write and so did Beethoven. When Mozart did get creative control over his works, they were truly great. Mozart also had works spanning many genres, which Bach did not have, but Beethoven did and he was so much better at Beethoven in most of them.

Beethoven's 5th is pretty awesome, so I'll lean toward Beet.

Also what about Vivaldi?

I am a huge mozart fan. I love his works, especially his operas. While I like Beethoven as well, Mozart's operas are just incredible.

I think that had Mozart lived as long a both Bach and Beethoven did, he would easily be considered the greatest composer to ever live, since what he did in such a short period of time is just truly amazing. No one is able to match his output and most of his greatest works are those towards the end of his life. He was able to creat many great works in period when it was very restrictive to be writing music, since you had to write it in a certain style for your clients. Bach had much more freedom to write and so did Beethoven. When Mozart did get creative control over his works, they were truly great. Mozart also had works spanning many genres, which Bach did not have, but Beethoven did and he was so much better at Beethoven in most of them.

:cringe: x 1000

I like opéra so Mozart it is.

In my eyes, Mozart and Beethoven are easily tied for 2nd place in prestige, but I like Beethoven's music much more.

Beethoven favorites:
Piano Concertos No.4 & 5
String Quartet No.14
Symphonies 7 & 9
Triple & Violin Concertos
Waldstein and Appassionata Sonatas

Mozart favorites: (Only like his late output)
Requiem
Piano Concertos No.20 & 21
Symphony No.41
Clarinet Concerto

That being said, Mozart is easily better (and IMO one of the absolute best) at writing melodies, especially considering his major output of opera. However, I prefer Beethoven for his passionate struggles and his powerful sense of justice and humanity. That, and I don't like happy music much. :p

Mozart wrote opera on piano while Beethoven wrote symphony on piano.

:cringe: x 1000

well Opera was not much of a genre when Bach was around. The genre of the concerto is far different from they that Mozart knew. The Sonata is something the Bach did not know. They symphony was not thought of when Bach was around, thus Bach could not have written in some genres that Mozart did. The fact that you are not even considering the fact that no one had composed at the scale that Mozart did. No one could ever match the amount of work he composed in such a short period. He wrote over 600 works in a time period of nearly 36 years, now that is massive. Heck his mind was built for music, since when he was in Rome, he was listening to a Mass, he was able to write down all the music he listened to, just from ear. Naturally he got told off for doing that, but that is the talent that he had. Mozart was composing at the age of 5, which shows the talent he had.

I don't disrespect Bach, since he was one of the greatest ever, but my vote for the greatest is Mozart. His talent is one that we have not seen before or since.

well Opera was not much of a genre when Bach was around. The genre of the concerto is far different from they that Mozart knew. The Sonata is something the Bach did not know. They symphony was not thought of when Bach was around, thus Bach could not have written in some genres that Mozart did.

Bach is the undisputed master of every form he touched, including:

concerti grossi - Sure they aren't concertos in the normal sense of the term, but lets not forget that he was the undisputed master of this form

All sacred music - This is in itself a massive category, and the masses in particular are crowning achievements of western art. The Mass in B Minor is, more often than any other work, considered the greatest single composition in the history of music, across all forms, time periods, and genres. The only other single work that might compete is if you count the entire Ring cycle as one composition.

keyboard music - Bach's compositions for organ and harpsichord surpass any other composers contribution to any keyboard literature. In fact, Bach did more with the organ and harpsichord than the best 5 piano composers did with piano, combined. I mean, the well-tempered clavier alone would put him in the ranks of beethoven, mozart, chopin, liszt, and other masters of keyboard instruments. When you add to that the goldberg variations, the fugues, the organ work... I mean just his keyboard work alone would suffice to cement his status as at least a tie with Mozart and Beethoven.

sonatas and solo non-keyboard work - I have no idea where you get the notion that Bach had no sonatas... he had many. His solo music in general was, again, staggering. The sonatas and partitas for solo violin are the greatest composition for solo violin, by far. The cello suites are the greatest composition for solo cello, by far.

Lets not forget that Mozart is not the master of all he touched. In opera, for instance, most would put Wagner and/or Verdi as at least the peers if not the superiors of Mozart.

The fact that you are not even considering the fact that no one had composed at the scale that Mozart did. No one could ever match the amount of work he composed in such a short period. He wrote over 600 works in a time period of nearly 36 years, now that is massive.

The Bach catalog has 1127 entries, and most music scholars think that a large number of Bach's works may be lost (some go so far as to say perhaps as much as half of his compositions).

He composed these works over 50 years. Thats 17 works per year for Mozart, and 22 works per year for Bach, even on the outrageous assumption that none of his works have been lost. A more realistic figure (though still probably underestimating things) would put Bach at about 30 works per year.

Heck his mind was built for music, since when he was in Rome, he was listening to a Mass, he was able to write down all the music he listened to, just from ear. Naturally he got told off for doing that, but that is the talent that he had. Mozart was composing at the age of 5, which shows the talent he had.

Stories of prodigies and virtuosos have a certain romantic flair, but they do not a great composer make. We choose Bach's solo violin work over Paganini's any day of the week.

Besides, everybody knows that Mendelssohn was the greater prodigy, in the sense of composing mature, permanent works at the youngest age.

What can I say? I am a sucker for Ode to Joy.

But my personal favourite of Mozart's is his Twelve Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je, Maman" his own personal classical remix of the children's nursery tune.

I know various Beethoven pieces on piano. Nothing by Mozart. I just don't like his music as much.

Beethoven, simply for being more innovative. Granted, Mozart mastered the opera in a way that wouldn't even see competition until Wagner, and he made the Opera Buffa what it is, but Beethoven had guts, and he wasn't afraid of expressing them musically. Mozart was the best Enlightenment era composer, but that's really all he was: The cream of the crop. Then Beethoven came along and decided to plant a new crop altogether, laying the foundations for Romanticism in music. That, to me, is a greater accomplishment.

I think between Beethoven and Mozart my vote goes to Beethoven for basically the reasons Randomnerd articulates.

There was some small time when Mozart was able to be innovative and he certainly was. So much so that most of Beethoven's early stuff are very similar to the stuff that Mozart wrote, since Beethoven learned what he did from the master of writing music. Beethoven just took the stick that Mozart carried and carried it further.


For thought here is my top 5 composers.
1. Mozart
2. Bach
3. Beethoven
4. Chopin
5. Liszt

It's just a matter of taste - Bach, Beethoven, Mozart all are in the top 5. I'd add Brahms to the list. Between just Ludwig and Wolfgang, I'd say one is deep and the other sublime.

The real question on everybody's mind should be who's the most mediocre composer, Antonio Salieri or Luigi Baccherini? As in, I have 4 Euros, do I buy this CD or a pizza?

Antonio Salieri or Luigi Baccherini

Philip Glass is significantly more mediocre than either of them. :cowboy:

Boccherini wrote some pretty interesting stuff too, although the particular pieces I mean are not well-known by any definition of the word. :) I'm not comparing him to Bach or Beethoven, I'm just saying.

Philip Glass is significantly more mediocre than either of them. :cowboy:

Very funny. But only our grandchildren will know for sure.

Boccherini wrote some pretty interesting stuff

I'm a big fan of his cello sonatas.

Beethoven's Ninth is probably the closest thing to musical perfection ever written, but I would still have to play Beethoven as third after Bach and Mozart. Though I consider Mozart's music to be superior, he also didn't write the Ninth while deaf, so I can't unequivocally say that he's unilaterally superior.

Beethoven's Ninth is probably the closest thing to musical perfection ever written,

Provided we ignore the Mass in B Minor :D

Mozart might have been more technical (though that's debatable), but Beethoven was more ground-breaking and pretty much single-handedly created the Romantic style.


I especially like his 3rd Symphony.

Beethoven's Ninth is probably the closest thing to musical perfection ever written
I'm insulted.

I personally believe Moonlight Sonata is the most beautiful piece of classical music.

I will always be a Beethoven fan, mainly because I played this guy in a play a couple months ago:

http://www.ttrove.com/images/Standups/893%20Schroeder.jpg

Since we're praising the Germans, I'd like to put a word in for Wagner. Many commentators have remarked that Tannhauser is the finest opera ever written. Parsifal is ethereal and emotional - The Flying Dutchman powerful. Rienzi, Lohengrin (with the Wedding March), Tristan und Isolde, and of course, that Ring thing.

Since we're praising the Germans, I'd like to put a word in for Wagner. Many commentators have remarked that Tannhauser is the finest opera ever written. Parsifal is ethereal and emotional - The Flying Dutchman powerful. Rienzi, Lohengrin (with the Wedding March), Tristan und Isolde, and of course, that Ring thing.

Yes, Wagner is amazing. I hope at some point in my life I can see the Ring cycle performed.

Certainly he vies with Verdi and Mozart for the "master of the opera" title... in fact I think Wagner would win that title, but its a close one!

Definitely Beethoven. Most people drool about Mozart saying 'oh my god, look how much he wrote'. The guy wrote 100 piano concertos. To me, it's more like he wrote 4 piano concertos 25 times. A lot of Mozart's music is repetitive and frankly annoying. Also, I find it to be overly simplistic.

Whereas Beethoven wrote only 5 piano concertos. But they are all different, interesting, and wonderfully rich. I like certain moments in music, which make me catch my breath and say 'wow, that was a great sound.' Nowhere in Mozart's music can I do that, but in Beethoven... the 3rd and 7th symphonies... I think you can't get better than that.

I am not saying that Mozart is a total waste of time. He did write some absolutely gorgeous pieces. But Beethoven is just so far ahead for me.

However, Mahler beats both.:D

I used to lean to Mozart, but I'm now firmly in the LvB camp. Sheer ingenuity beats prodigious talent and perfection of a form.

I always find Haydn more interesting than either. I think Mozart is largely overrated, with a tendency to use the same formulae repeatedly; I think popularity sustains his reputation on its own more than merit does. His music lacks the interesting polyphony and interaction between the parts that can be found in Haydn, and I think that this interaction makes Haydn's music considerably more attractive than Mozart's.

Beethoven is better, in my opinion, than Mozart, but his romantic leanings mean his work has a different appeal to me from Haydn's. Haydn, I think, is the most interesting figure of Classicism, but with Beethoven's music, while he shares many of Mozart's music's features (while sharing somewhat less, I think, with Haydn), the most interesting features are the features that he shares with the Romantic composers. However, I find that these features are underdemonstrated compared to later works, and Beethoven's Romanticism is clearly less strong than that of Tchaikovsky or Dvorak, and I therefore incline towards favouring those composers in preference to Beethoven.

You find Mozart too formulaic, so you prefer Haydn? :confused:

Yes; I've always found Haydn significantly more interesting and varied.

As much as I like Haydn too, and meaning this in no negative way, I would've thought that if anyone were to be described as formulaic, it would be the dude who perfected the sonata form and composed to it over and over again. Sure, there's variation within that framework, but it is most definitely formulaic.

Mozart but I may feel this way because i saw Amadeus (the movie) and love way too much his rondo a la turka and the cover by Bobby Lapointe and Boris Vian putting lyrics on that song

I grew up in a family where a lot of classical music was playing. Though it never caught my interest much (with the exception of Tchaikovsky and a little Wagner). I know for sure that I've listenened to both Mozart and Beethoven, but could anyone post some youtube videos of their most famous stuff? I won't be able to recognize the music by it's name.

Here is the famous Queen of the Night Aria from the Magic flute. Mozart
C2ODfuMMyss

Here is the 5th movement of Beethoven's 6th Symphony(Pastorale) PErsonally my favourite symphony of his.
EM8RlCZP0KQ

I voted for Mozart.