meldor suggested a berserker game; here it is!


I am open to suggestions by everyone - the only condition is that we play on a high level (Monarch and up) and that all participants feel good about warmongering :D


players list:

Killer
meldor
meli
gothmog
anarres???
jollyroger



(reserved) = I'll take applications by first come but reserve two spaces for friends. So there is 2 open spaces for people who haven't played with me yet - all others can go by (reserved) spots.

Hey 'Killer', I'd like to get in on this one. My last SG was 'honorable' so this will be a nice change. Although I would like to avoid using tricks that exploit the AI's script, such as ROP rape. I'd prefer Diety but would play Emperor if that's the consensus of the group. I'd also like to include all the new PTW civs as enemies.

I will take any level.

I would suggest (as I did in the other tread) something with a lot of water to make our UU stand out a little more than it would on a pangea or even continents game.

Lots of islands to make that early amphib work for us.

me
meldor
gothmog
(reserved)
(reserved)
open

welcome Gothmog! Glad to play with you. I'd say Emperor is just fine if we take all the new civs as enemies as I haven't even played them myself until now.

Very Interesting! I'm swamped as it is, so I can't offer to join, but I'll definitely monitor the game!

How about this:

200*200 map with x and y wrap, little land and 21 civs (this gives each civ about as much room as standard values are). Then, we up tech cost a bit (+1 to +2 for cheap tech, +3 or +4 for expensive tech in ancient, then +4 to +6 in middle ages and so on). Also, set max reasearcht ime to 60 and min to 8.
This should make our own research tough but worth it if we set AI trade ratio to 110 % for Emperor.

Also, I'd usggest no barbs and huts and 2 settlers for every nation at start - to equalize the starting positions a bit.

I do not think this is much of an advantage for us as we are expan/mil and thus loose one of our advantages right away......

Then, I'd love to make the FP give +1 move for ships, but NOT sea travel - makes other nations get closer a bit without dependence on the Lighthouse....


what do you think? 'm open to suggestions!

21 Civs!!! A slugfest from the start. FP mod sounds good. Are you going to go with the upgrade to vet/elite HP?

meldor: with A=6 for berserks and D=4 for musketmen I have found that more HP for elites will guarantee a win pretty much, so I guess we should stay with the normal HP. But I am open to suggestions.

Lt. 'Killer' M. - I'd be interested in joining if you have a spot open. BTW, after Thanksgiving, some alumni from the limericks and other related threads are thinking about starting a sort of smart-ass succession game with an emphasis on how crazy of a report you can write for your turns. As a veteran at running games and a contributor to those threads, we would be very interested in you joining that game. I think me and Sultan Bhargash would be in for sure with other spots filled by other notorious posters to the more humorous threads in the General Discussion Forum.

Woah, something is *ucked with my home connection. It took me 2 hours to load this page. Hopefully I'll get it under control today.

Everything else sounds good. 21 civs should be a trip, that is most of the civs. (or did you mean 12 civs which I believe is standard for one of the maps) My first real mod game, I'm looking forward to the differences. I forget what the sizes are, is 200x200 a huge map?.

I would also second meldor's suggestion to go with Archipelago land setup. That will limit ancient war to some extent but give us lots of fun doing the rape pillage and burn thing.

Also we may as well play with cultural starting positions so we can emerge from the tundra and thump on the germans.

Gothmog: archipelago it is, 21 civs..... huge is 160*160 so we are above that, but given the civ number and the amount of land it will be normal amount of land for a standard map that we get per civ. Also, there WILL be an archipelago since there is enough room to seperate the landmasses :D

JR: welcome!
I'd also be interested in wirting crazy reports ;)



me
meldor
gothmog
jollyroger
(reserved)
open


1 more and we can get startd I'd say.... I'll now advertise this game in the SG open spots thread.....

I'm in. I'm back from my SG hiatus, so I figure I'll get into as many as possible. :D

Whats the level? I assume Monarch or Emperor, either way is good with me.

Hey, if all of you have PTW, you could check out CG3...;) :mischief: :lol: :D

CG

game full, welcome cg;)

patch 1.14 OK with everyone? means we can upgrade archers......

waiting for a yes from all before I start

this is PBEM right? well i also posted teh same info in the PBEM threads
ill be germany
Name:stalin006
country name:sovietika
noun:Neo-Soviets
adj:Neo-Soviet
Title:Premier
capital city:Berlin
my e-mail is stalin006@hotmail.com

stalin: this is SG, sorry if i gave the wrong thread URL..... but this SG could still do with one mroe player if you want!

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
game full, welcome cg;)

patch 1.14 OK with everyone? means we can upgrade archers......

waiting for a yes from all before I start

Patched and ready to go beserk.

All patched up and no where to go,

I'm patched, but won't be on my Civ3-ready computer until Saturday, hope that doesn't slow us down. Nothing like sneaking away from post-Thanksgiving dessert to log on a dreadfully slow 56k modem...:( (Too used to cable ;))

CG

Here are the first 20 turns:


(1) 4000 BC - an excellent start! I fear the map was generated with few

civilizations, thus giving a LOT of bonus resources and few strategic and

luxury one..... I can spot a cow and a wheat and a river - enough to place

the city right there. Trondheim founded, expanded view shows 2 mroe cows,

1 more wheat and some bonus grassland. As one of the cows is on river and

out of Trondheims 21 tiles the 2nd settler goes straight north.The worker

goes to the cow, the scout out east (he sees water - maybe coast? inland

is either up-right or down-right then). There is jungle to the south along

with hills, a mountain in view in the norht - good chance on iron in the

inner ring.
Science is set to 100%, Ceremonial Burail and Bronze Working being the

only advances under 60 turns. Burail selected, 38 rounds (Bronze = 50)

(2) 3950 BC - it is the coast indeed - with two cows and silks :D. The

river comes from the mountain and there waters another cow - good city

site ona hill (defence, no overlap). Go north along coast with Scout to

use two movements as south is jungle.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/K7-1.jpg

(3) 3900 BC - the lands to the northwest are incredible. bonus grass

sticks out as a BAD tile there :lol: Another river in view, making it

llook as if the island center is to the east. More cows for our second

settler, this time on plains (safes us mining).

(4) 3850 BC - settler in place on hill. Second river looks as good as ours

:D

(5) 3800 BC - found Wunderstatt ('wonder town' - check the tiles around

and you know why). You may disagree, but i start mine on cow instead of

road between cities - Trondheim needs production!

(6) 3750 BC -Warrior in Trondheim, Scout selected. Scout sees more rivers

- appears i have found (one of the) center(s) of island in north-east.

(7) 3700 BC - still no AI in view - I am a bit surprised!

(8) 3650 BC - decide to change Trondheim to worker as it only produces 2

shields atm.

(9) 3600 BC - red border in view to the east!

(10) 3550 BC - move closer. 2nd worker starts road to Wunderstatt.

(11) 3500 BC - move in. It is a capital as it expands borders with

Trondheim. It is..... ROME! Not a good early neighbour. Caesar is very

unwilling to sell us Alphabet, offers 10 gold for pottery. I renegotiate

peace and can't get it - oh well!

(12) 3450 BC - run away

(13) 3400 BC - Warrior from Wunderstatt heads towards Rome and finds Roman

2nd city to the east of Wunderstatt.

(14) 3350 BC - meet Xerxes. He knows both Masonry and Bronze Working, but

is unwilling to trade either (even for 10 Gold and our two techs).

Renegotiate gives us Masonry and 10 for both techs. new Warrior from

Trondheim starts towards Rome.

(15) 3300 BC - Warriors move towards Veii.

(16) 3250 BC - Jeez, Caesar is one lucky fellow - Veii was empty and

produces a Warrior the turn before we can attack!

(17) 3200 BC - fortify next to Veii to bring more troops in.

(18) 3150 BC - Rome re-inforeces with another Warrior. Attack Veii with

one warrior - promoted. Problem is Archer on hill next to town. So I talk

to Caesar and he agrees to give us Alphabet and 10 Gold for peace and

Masonry :D:D:D Alphabet gives us Branoze orking from Xerxes :D

(19) 3100 BC - retreat from Veii, lux to 10 since Trondheim grew,

Wunderstatt to Granary.

(20) 3050 BC - Burail found, Mysticism in 28 @ +/- 0 and 80%. Lux to 0 as

2nd Warrior takes up MP duty.

(12) 3000 BC - state of the empire: we are 3 tech ahead of Rome, he is

broke and has equal number of cities. We are 1 tech ahead of Persia and in

the process of researching the follow-on (dealing possible); he has three

towns, one mroe than we.

Granaries are under construction in both cities but can be switched to

settlers for no shield loss (which might be a good idea for Tronheim as it

uses two cows on grass (3 food). Wunderstatt has cows on plains thus

shoudl get a Granary IMO.


City placement:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/K7-towns.jpg

Saved game? Turn order?

meldor: you are up. 'x' are city site suggestions, I would think it favorable to plan FP build in Wundersatt in the long run, then jump the Palace out to wherever we need it. Thus. push the center of empire as far into our enemies as you can - th south is ours unless there is a lot of room and another civ out there (but there shouldn't be - I told the guy who created the map I wanted archipelago so 3 or 4 civs max per island and we have room for 5 in view atm already....).

and here is the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Berserk-3000BC.zip

Got it

If my turns come up during the next couple of days, I won't be able to play them until Monday morning. I'm working double shifts on Saturday and Sunday. Feel free to skip me or move me down in the rotation if that becomes an issue.

JR: will move you down if it comes to that ;)



I would like to start a strategy discussion at this point.
Please state what YOU would think a good short-term, mid-term, long-term goal (and why) and how to achieve it. I feel plaing style must be changed from Civ3 a lot since the AIs build so much more troops and react so differently to trade offeres (see my forced trades via peace negotiations!).



my 2 C:

short-term: start massive expansion phase, try to get Great Library
mid-term: expand to fill all, loose build. Tech-parity

long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.



how to get there: expansion via settler - Granary - settler in Trondheim (I'm hoping meldor is doing just that) and Granary - settler and so on in Wunderstatt..Tech: research and stay aggressive! It is surprising what pressing the AI cities with troops without actually attacking can get you!


long-term: we need the Great Library to do the upgrade in the range I imagine - around 30 Archers, which requires 15 Galleys. Getting it should be possible unless it is build first on another continent. Prebuild in Wunderstatt after it's second settler and a Templ (for growth w/o lux%)

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.


long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.



Archers dont upgrade to Berzerkers.

I kinda agree with the idea, being Norwegian and knowing viking history, but it is pretty stupid if the berzerk is based on longBOWman.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.

long-term: build up money and archers, then mass upgrade for raiding force.



What patch was the game STARTED with?
If started with a release earlier then 1.14, forget it.
They fixed the upgrade path as of 1.14.

Originally posted by LKendter



What patch was the game STARTED with?
If started with a release earlier then 1.14, forget it.
They fixed the upgrade path as of 1.14.

:goodjob: What he said. If started with 1.04, I would suggest (gulp) scrapping this game and generating a new map with 1.14, so we can get that excellent archer upgrade. That would be too sad, because this start is absolutely amazing, bonus wise.

CG

3000 BC (Pre-turn)
There is so much food bonus around. Switching Trondhiem to settler will only safe 4 turns. I leave it as a granary for now.
(i) Roman archer appears out of the north.

2950 BC (1)
Not much happening. Your plan of great expansion to the south is put on hold, there isn't much there.

2900-2850 BC (3-4)
Nada.

2800 BC (5)
Both cities expand, lux to 10%

2750-2670 BC (6-8)
(I) Wunderstatt finishes Granary starts settler, will switch to military after this

2630 BC (9)
(I) Trondhiem finishes granary starts settler.

2590 BC (10)
Trondhiem grows, lux 20%.

2550-2270 BC (11-17)
Nada.

2330 BC (18)
Kufestadt founded. Starts worker.

2190 BC (19)
Fahrbootstadt founded.

2150 (20)
Settler in place to claim the silks, we need the lux. Its currnet position will require the other city on that caost to be shifted by one, resulting in overlap, but that will be OK. Wunderstatt is building a temple and Trondheim is building another settler. A second ssettler is heading north to found an aggressive city to deny the Romans their silks. If you MM Trondhiem you should be able to get steelrs every 4 turns. We are set to get Mysticismin 1 at -1 but then we can go back one slot and get a positive income.

K7 2150 Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Berserk-2150BC.zip)

View of our corner of the world (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/K7-2150BC.jpg)

[EDIT] Fixed map link

Who is up? :)

CG

EDIT: Meldor, that map is a bad link.

gothmog is out until tomorrow, if JR or cg can grab the game and play right now then go ahead!



game patch status: since I had a friend set it up he had the editor file and simply imported unit rules into it. As he had adjusted the map there was no difference ;)

player order:

JR or cg (up now)
if you do NOT post got it until Monday morning then it is gothmogs turn
gothmog
(JR)
(cg)
me
meldor


meldor: the pic isn't in the uploads2 folder either :(

I e-mailed the pic to Thunderfall. I have uploaded it 5 times and it said it was successful. It never appears. :(

{Ediy] Killer, you didn't say if you liked the city names.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
JR or cg

Got it. I guess I should play 20 turns, is that right? Anyway, I think from now on we should have a definite turn order, because JR or CG could be very confusing. ;)

CG

EDIT: I don't know any German names, at all. If I found any cities, I guess I'll just use the Viking names. You can change them later. :cool:

(0) I raise science a few notches so we can get Mysticism in 1 turn at -2gpt, then I'll drop it down again. Just some long term strategizing: looking at our enemies on this island, it seems that we are stuck with two civs with sword UUs. The chances of this happening are so low that I am pretty certain there was some tinkering in this map. Considering that, a sword war would give us 3 attack on 3 defense, which isn't good, or 3 attack up against a 4 counterattack, which isn't good. If we MUST go to war in the swordsmen era, I figure it would be best to go against Persia. I'd rather that not happen, however, so I guess our long term plan should be a massive archer upgrade, colonization on some outer islands, then taking over our mainland in one feel Beserker swoop. Everything looks good, I end the turn.

(1) Sorry, a slip of the mouse and Trondheim riots. I accidentally put lux one lower than I wanted, Damn. Anyway, I noticed a little more tinkering in this map: min science would be 60 turns! :eek: I decide to put sceince for Writing at 39 turns with 3gpt. This huge mininum science is going to cost us, because we'll pretty much have to run around 40% in the early game. Oslo is founded in the SW, I move warrior/settler one over to found on the river in the NE, by Rome, to get the silks. I may be paranoid here, but I think I see some more tampering here. Is it suspicious that every civ on this island will easily get at least one silk resource? And is it suspicious that there are at least 9 silks on this island? :hmm: Maybe.

(2) Settler built in Trondheim, another one due in 4 turns. Meldor was half right about getting a settler every four; if we want to get a settler every four turns, we'll have to go with a no warrior gambit on some cities. I figure that isn't too bad, and we'll put those gambit cities in the south. Newly built settler is headed west. I think Wunderstatt is going to have to be our "worker city" for a little while, because we only two, and workers are precious commodities for a non-industrious civ. Stockholm founded in the NE, right on the border of Rome. I could have made Stockholm a very aggressive city, but that would have involved taking it off the river, so I decided against it. So far we seem to have a slim tech lead.

(3) Nothing.

(4) Fahrboostadt builds a warrior for defense, worker started. We need to develop this city; when the area around it is mined, and it has a temple and is hooked up to luxeries, it gives us a good chance to flip Veii.

(5) Change of plans: I think Kufestadt should be our worker city. It has everything you can dream of one: a cow on grassland, and a wheat on flood plain. Once it gets to size two, and we can work both of these tiles, it will get workers out very fast. Birka built. I think it is about time we modernize our military, so most new cities will build spears when they get the chance.

(6) Our first challenge! Xerxes threatens us. I wish we were allowed to look at civ's techs and such when they demand techs, but we can't. Xerxes demands Cermional Burial. They don't seem to have Immortals yet, so I...refuse. *sigh* He backs down. :o Sorry, Trondheim riots. I now realize what I was missing: it will riot whenever it reaches size 5. Note to everyone about that. Just change one citizen to entertainer, then build the settler from now on. We need to hook up one of those silks, so thats top priority.

(7) Settler built in Trondheim. I guess its time to fill in the south. I start clearing jungle by Oslo, and I'll get a second worker there ASAP so it goes quicker. Its much faster to clear jungle then road.

(8) Nothing.

(9) Xerxes gets Writing. I think its time to run a min sci. I'm not sure how effective this will be, however, since the min science is 60 turns.

(10) Settler built in Wonderstatt, he is sent to the last semi-decent location in the North, on a coastal flood plain, hopefully to churn out workers.

(11) I raise lux to 30%. It barely affect our budget, and will get rid of those annoying near-riots in Trondheim.

(12) The French build Collosus, the Romans cascade to Pyramids. Aarhus built in the hills to the south. A filler city, allow us more units. X-Man is finally willingly to talk to us about getting Writing, and he offers it to us for Cermional Burial, 86, and 19gpt. Yeah, right. Another Settler built in Trondheim, I take a pause from the settler build to get a spearman.

(13) The AI is so stupid when it comes to city placement. They just ruined my oppurunity to get a settler/worker factory so they could settler one tile off the coast and one tile away from a river, in some mountains. I guess I'll settle for a new spot, then, to the north, another flood plain.

(14) Somehow we still need for workers. I would think 6 would be enough, but they somehow are too short. Wunderstatt starts building another one.

(15) Is a half-city worth more than wasted tiles? I guess so. I don't want some coastal grassland to go to waste, so I think we should do a pseudo-ICS in some spots, because we seem to have alot of wasted tiles here and there. Exploration reveals that Rome has more cities than I expected, with a peninsula jutting from what I thought was the coastline by Rome. The price of Writing has dropped to Burial, 123g, and 13gpt. I think if we wait until Rome gets it, it will be affordable.

(16) Wunderstatt goes on a quick infra build, I figure it could use a temple before it continues churning out workers.

(17-20) Stavanger founded, a jungle filler in the south. Odenese founded in the North, on the border of Persia, on a flood plain.

FINAL NOTES: The settler on a GoTo by Kufestadt is headed to that forest tile on the coast. That city could be slightly useful, and I figure we should make the most out of the lands we have, because we aren't going to get any until Beserks, if we go according to plan. Workers by Oslo are clearing jungle, to place a road next. Hope that there is a bonus under there. ;) Persia will give us Writing for Burial, 10gpt, and 165g. You decide what do make of that. If that temple in Wunderstatt was a prebuild, as I think I read somewhere back in this thread, we had no chance to get Lit in time. I definetely think Wunderstatt should be our wonder city (no pun intended ;)), or at least get the GrLib.

Here is the save, I hope it works, I've never uploaded a save before:

K7-Latest Save (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/K7-1575BC.sav)

I'll post a pic of our map in a little while.

CG

Here is the latest map, from the end of my turn. The dark red city is where the settler is going on a Goto order, and the light red cities are spots I was considering:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/K7Map.gif

CG

nice! it is your, gothmog!

meldor: yep I had a good laugh on the names ;)


player order is:

me
meldor
cgannon64
gothmog (up now)
JollyRoger

Just looking over the game, I think we have a small window of oppurtunity to take over Rome right now. They do not have Iron Working or Legions yet, and their best units are archers and spearmen. I think one of the best options right now is to get Writing then try to get Iron Working quickly. Rome is weak (4 cities) compared to Persia (7 cities) and researching tech very slowly. In my turns, they got no techs at all or the same techs as us. This gives us a chance we should capitalize on. If Rome discovers Iron Working before us, I think we should still go to war and take out that Iron source if they have one.

CG

cg: good idea! A well-led grup of 6 Swordsmen could take out the smaller cities - and we can let Rome live as a puppet state with ionly the capital (capitals are defended by p to 5 units in PTW - a bit too much with 3 A vs. 2 D). Then, we can build a few Catapults (will need them for coastal defence anyways later), bombard it and then take it over :D

Hello All - I'm back and I played the 10 turns too. Since I played them and have a report and screen shot I am going to post them and we can decide what to do. Sorry about this but for some reason I couldn't post to the forum from home, although I could read about every other post and grab the uploads. I'll try to fix that tonight.

Well I never, renegotiating peace with both our neighbors - all right let the games begin!!

Here is what I did...

Preturn: Woah, I have never seen so much food. This suggests to me that we do a dense build, I switch Wunderstatt to settler. I would have put kufestadt somewhere else but that's the fun of a SG. :yeah:

2110 - Trond builds settler - I reduce lux. Move settlers, all three now in position.

2070 - Discovered myst, Persia must have discovered it this turn too :p . I don't want to give Persia CB and their cheap temples + he isn't willing to trade what it is worth anyhow. What next... well we don't need iron working to build archers so I go for math at min. Found Oslo (temple), found stockholm (warrior), found Birka (worker).

2030 - Fahrboot warrior -> temple. Trondheim - temporary scientist to stop riot. Turn sci off.

1990 - Wunderstatt settler -> temple.

1950 - Trondheim settler -> rrack - turn science back to min.

1910 - Kufestadt worker -> temple. Silks now online, turn off lux. Birka switched to temple. Persia starts Pyramids (4 cities and already at it, go ahead build it for us).

1870 - Stockholm warrior -> rracks.

1830 - Trondheim rracks -> archer (in case Rome comes for us, they have an archer and we have aggressive settlements). Persia has writing but wants our first born for it. Bah, who needs ink and parchment anyway? How will that help us pillage? Also they still don't have CB and I don't want to give it to them. No one has any culture at the moment.

1790 - Found Aarhus on west coast (warrior), raise lux to 10%.

1750 - Found Stavanger (worker).

Thoughts: We have 9 cities, Persia has 5, Rome 3. We should be able to just go out and kick some azz now. We may want to change some of the temples to rracks and just build archers and workers for a bit. If we do this we could wipe out both of our neighbors before iron working even becomes an issue (or at least before they hook up any iron). No one has any culture buildings yet anyway.

After looking at cgannon's turns: I am guessing there will be iron at Gordium (those AI's aren't as stupid as they sometimes appear).

IMO: short term - build rracks and archers, kill kill kill. Medium term - build infrastructure and GL, do research for lit and map making. Long term - upgrade archers to Zerkers and continue along the kill kill kill lines.

Well that's it, where do we go from here?

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Berserk-1750BC.zip

and the map: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/1750BC.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/1750BC.jpg

Killer, you need to make the call here....

Originally posted by meldor
Killer, you need to make the call here....

Did Gothmog play the same turns I did? Thats what I'm guessing, unless he posted an old map, because in my turns, the AIs had different city placement. If so, I agree with meldor: Killer should pick the turns we wants to keep. :lol: I've never had this happen to me in an SG before.

CG

Yes I played the same turns, I wanted to play and was able to get the downloads, I thought it was my turn. This is surely my fault as I would have posted an 'I got it' on saturday night if my friggin browser had been working correctly. I only played 10 turns and I will be happy with whatever we decide to do - It is Killers call as he is the game sponsor.

I would get it, but I don't know which one to get. I am willing to delay my turn and let Killer decide what to do. Wednesdays & Thursdays are the best days for me to play my turns, so if Killer chooses one set of turns, I have no problem with cgannon64 or Gothmog (whichever one has their turns not count) contributing a set of turns to the "official game" prior to my spot in the rotation.

for the future: everyone gives gothmog their e-mail, he mails around a 'got-it'. OK?


for now: as cg posted first and was 'officially' up we will take his turns (thouhg I really do NOT like Gordium, there's iron there I am sure!). So gothmog, get it or mail me and I mail it to you!

gothmog: nice playing :D



gothmog: may I suggest the tile across the River near Gordium for a town? This way, if we rush a Temple, we can pressure Gordium and can set up troops for an attack directly next to it. I want that city gone, gone, gone - and fast!

to clarify: I mean the tile between the coast, the river and the hill, 1 down left, 1 straight down from Gordium.......


JR: hopefully it will all work for gothmog now, expect to be up tomorrow ;)

Hey all, everything works for me hear at work. And my conection is much faster to boot, I typically do most of my internet stuff while here. It is only the weekends that I may have issues, also I have a lead on the problem and should have a software fix by tomorrow.

Consider this my: 'I got it', I'll try to play tonight although I may not get through 20.

Note to cg, your save was uploaded as a *.sav file. This sometimes gets corrupted on the server. In the future please upload as a *.zip file.

If someone has access to civ3 and reads this in the next few hours could you try his upload. Otherwise, if it is corrupt, I wont be continuing from there tonight.

Thoughts: Rome's only possible source of Iron is in Veii, conveniently located near our borders. I like cg's idea for an extremely aggressive settlement near there, without Iron Rome is like "our bi*ch". Hard to believe they are going for a wonder (I just looked at cg's turns), did they not get the message when Killer tried to renegotiate peace and then attacked Veii in the very beginning?

Persia doubtless has Iron at Gordium and I will also go with an agressive settlement there too as Killer suggests. They will never get to hook up that Iron. They have other hills and probably other Iron, we will want to pillage that as soon as we can. Regardless, it will take them some time to settle and hook any Iron that is there. I'll keep an eye on Iron Working as that is our only possible pitfall at the moment.

:goodjob:

sav works for me!

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
[b](thouhg I really do NOT like Gordium, there's iron there I am sure!).

They settled Gothmog around turn 15 or so, so it would have happened if I had never played and if we had taken Gothmog's turn. And because that is not a great spot, I am sure we have put it off, so without preknowledge (which we would have had if we had taken Gothmog's turns over mine) it would have probably been taken anyway. So don't blame me. :D ;)

CG

EDIT: Added wink so people know I'm joking...:lol:

cgannon: I ain't blaming you in any way. It happenes, that's why they all cry the AI cheats!

cg, I would never have settled that spot either, even with preknowledge. The point is it is a bad spot, as you point out in your write up. Now why would anyone settle there? Lets be ready for some important resource, this is something the AI does all the time. Anyway, neither I not Killer were blaiming you, just adding to the discussion.

*points to edit in my above post*

I know you weren't blaming me, I was joking. I just forgot to include the wink. :lol:

Anyway, you're up Gothmog. :)

CG

cg: check your sig, it's the zany 'zerkers, not the man :lol:

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
cg: check your sig, it's the zany 'zerkers, not the man :lol:

:lol: Oops! I guess I mentally inserted Many instead of Zany...:lol: Anyway, did Gothmog post an "I got it" yet? I guess he's coming home from work now, anyway.

CG

Yes he did, it's in his post somewhere....

Let the games begin!

Preturn: Gothmog arrives on the scene, wondering why so many temples are being built. He learns that the vikings are weak militarily :cringe: , this cannot stand. He quickly sacrifices all of the ruling class to mighty Thor and begins converting temples into training centers for advanced degrees in pillageology. Sizing up his enemies gothmog has to laugh, they have no culture, the warlike vikings actually lead the continent in culture!

Lux turned down a notch. Stavenger -> warrior, Birka -> rracks, Kufestadt -> rracks, Odense -> rracks, Stockhold -> rracks. Switch workers to build road rather than clear jungle, we need the lux and there are plenty of good tiles to improve without clearing that jungle. Since we are going to war soon we need to see where the iron is ASAP, I switch research to IW at max possible, 15 turns at -3 gpt.

Click...

1550- Wunderstatt worker -> worker

1525- found Lokimotion (rracks), bump up lux.

1500- Wunderstatt worker -> settler, Trondheim settler -> rracks, temple whipped in Fahrbootstadt, turn down lux.

1475- Fahrboot temple -> rracks, Oslo worker -> temple, Stavanger warrior -> worker.

1450- Silk finally online. Stockholm rracks -> archer, Birka rracks -> spear, Aarhus spear -> temple, Trondheim rracks -> spear.

1425- Rome now has Iron Working :ack: but Persia still doesn't. Scout messes with Roman settler/spear pair north of Rome. Wunderstadtt settler -> worker, Kufestadt rracks -> spear. Found Slayveii near veii (rracks).

1400- Fahrboot expands borders, now can access whale.

1375- Fahrboot rracks -> archer

1350- Stavanger worker -> warrior (for MP duity at Trondheim). Trondheim spear -> archer, Wunderstadtt worker -> worker.

1325- Disease in Kufestadt. Stockholm archer -> spear. Persia still no IW or CB, send scout home.

1300- Discover IW, research to Wheel (9 turns at +2 gpt). Persia has Iron next to Gordium on Mountain, and next to Arbela also on mountain. This is good it will take them a while to hook it up once they get IW. Rome doesn't seem to have any, but diplo reveals that they do have one, it must be under Veii. Time to make Veii ours. Wunderstadtt worker -> rracks.

1275- Trondheim is now pop 7 w/10 spt. That is a spear or archer every two turns. Troops heading towards Veii.

1250- Alesund founded near Gordium (rracks)

1225- Wunderstadtt rracks -> spear (also has 10 spt), Slayveii rracks -> archer, Stavanger warrior -> worker, Fahrboot archer -> spear.

1200- Lokimotion rracks -> spear. Persia still no IW or CB. They start Lighthouse so they must have MM. Call up Rome offer continued Peace for Veii, what? they refuse? War is declared :hammer: Move troop into position. There is one legion in Veii but their road does not connect to Rome :mwaha:

1175- Take out archer threatening Stockholm with archer, promotes to elite. Disband scout in Birka. Vet archer takes reg legion down to 1, 2nd vet archer kills reg shield, reg spear kills reg archer and promotes (nice), 3rd archer takes dies on legion (no damage and legion promotes), 4th and last archer ... kills legion and takes Veii!! [dance]
Move last reg spear into Veii, there is a threatening archer on the way. Rome wont talk.

1150- Elite archer slays another archer near Stockholm.

1125- More archers approach Stockholm, slay another with elite archer (now at 3 hp). Reinforcements arrive in Stockholm.

1100- Discover wheel -> HB riding in 8. We have horses. Persia now has IW :eek: but still none hooked up and no workers on the relevant mountains. X-man you are on deck, no Iron for you. Start a couple of swords to help with mission to pillage any Iron X-man tries to hook up.

1075- Our troops approach Rome. The reign of Gothmog ends. He looks over his empire and is satisfied.

Thoughts: Do not attack Rome over the river! Rome must be in their GA as their legion successfully defended at Veii. We can get Antium for peace from Rome, now that Rome has no Iron and only three cities they are no threat. Next leader can decide whether to take Rome or let it complete a wonder (if it is still building it). Do not let Persia get an immortal force, this is much more important than anything Rome could do. Check diplo to see if Persia has any Iron. If they hook some up go right for their sources. We have lots of spears near Rome and some of these could be diverted to the Persian Iron near Arbela. Next player (JR?) have fun.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Berserk-1075BC.zip

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/1075BCss.jpg

nice!

Why wait for X-man to hook up iron? Go to war NOW!

Gothmog wipes the spittle from killers rant off his face... Down boy down.

The question is do we use our troops to wipe out Rome and then go for Persia, or do we allow Rome to use its GA to build a wonder for us in Roma and go for Persia directly. Actually I agree with you killer, we accomplished our objective with our Roman war, now it is time to make sure Persia never ever ever gets any Immortals. Then extort them for some techs - we could really use MM but we need writing first. Maybe change research to writing now so we can extort MM etc. from Persia later.

one thing I might need to add here: I have seen the Ais do MASSIVE upgrades in PTW. If we let X-man hook up the iron we may face 15 or so Immortals, even if he only has iron for 3 turns.....

I'd still like to go for Writing, then Literature soon: I want the Great Library (a leader would come in handy here :D)


btw, nice work on Veii: just what we needed. We can disband Slayveii now for workers IMHO

Got it. Will play some time later today.

Sorry about those Temples, its easy to lose concentration near the end of one's turn and just use what the AIs suggest. Anyway, good job on Rome, we got them in the nick of time. I wouldn't be surprised if that was Rome's only legion...:lol:

Anyway, I agree with Killer. We should build up a force of swords as quickly as possible and take those Iron cities fast. Then, after that, we could hold those cities and wait a little while to build up a larger force, then move in and own the continent. :D

CG

No problem on the temples, only Fahrbootstadt was so far along that I couldn't switch. I do think that workers could have been utilized a bit more efficiently during your turns though. It is nice to stack them in piles able to complete a job in one round. For examle three workers complete a road in one turn, a couple stacks of three will increase our income and road net much faster than 6 lone workers.

That was indeed Rome's only legion. They had not yet hooked up their road network to Veii so they could have only built legions in Veii. Unless they built one there and sent him walking (which I highly doubt).

Finally, I don't think we need many swords - just the two currently being built and maybe a couple more. Remember we want to have archers for upgrading to zerkers later. If we make peace with Rome (for now), the currently available force will be enough to deny Persia any Iron hookups. Then with our superior production base and many barracks it is just a matter of (not much) time. If JR goes right to it I expect him to have taken at least Arbela and Gordium and gotten some techs for peace in his 20. By the time it gets back to me I fully expect Rome and Persia to be distant memories.

Originally posted by Gothmog

Finally, I don't think we need many swords - just the two currently being built and maybe a couple more. Remember we want to have archers for upgrading to zerkers later.

Thats sort of what I was thinking: just a few to take those two important cities, and then dealing with archers shouldn't be too hard. I think we should try to find out how many defenders they have (maybe through investigation) so we know how many swords we need.

CG

And start building boats to ferry our 'Zerkers to other lands. They are awesome against those shore cities.

1075 (0)
A treaty is signed between the mighty Vikings and the pathetic Romans. Rome has nothing to give worth taking, but we settle for Antium. It is promptly renamed Tarkenton – some sort of archaic reference to a mighty Viking warrior from the past who could hurl a stone better than anybody, but whose hometown was often sacked. The Romans insist that the evil Gothmog be put in retirement. The Vikings reluctantly agree – and thus begins the reign of JR. To show good faith to the Romans, he changes the emphasis of Viking research from militeristic application (horseback riding) to something a little more scholarly (writing). JR then forgets about the Romans and looks towards a more serious threat – the dirty Persians. Gothmog is sent to Trodheim where he trains the first batch of swordsmen and begins training another. The Temple of Oslo is completed and a barracks is begun. While celebrating the victory over the Romans, a great tale is told about how there is an Oracle at a mysterious place called Mecca. The first question asked of the Oracle is “What do these bull entrails tell us about our people?” The answer is “This is no bullsh*t, but Mecca will be like the bull’s eye, causing our enemies to go beserk.”

1050 (1)
Make a point to keep an eye on iron mountains. Plan is to take Arbela and Gordium and see what is left for an attack on Susa and beyond. Interturn, military units produced.

1025 (2)
Plan to try to build a road across the neutral desert between Odense and Gordium to faciltate troop movement. Part of me wants to take Susa on the way to Gordium, but the most important objective is to deny Persia iron. After that, we can take Persia at our will. Since Birka is at its population limit, begin building a settler to move into area now occupied by Arbela should I get in an autoraze situation. I have let SlayVeii complete the swordsman it was building. See no compelling reason to abandon it just yet. There is no tile sharing situation that I cannot work around and I have no problem with the potential downside while letting SlayVeii build troops.

1000 (3)
One millinium left until the end of time. It looks like Persia may be interested in tangling with Rome. Meanwhile, our troops are getting in position to attack Arbela. Trondheim can build a swordsman every 3 turns and Wunderstatt can build a swordsman every two. Thebes completes the Pyramids, a clear sign that the world will self-destruct in 1000 years. Persia moves unprotected workers onto both iron mountains.

975 (4)
A few turns from being ready for war. Resist the temptation. If Persia protects its workers on the mountains, it will means less defense within the town itself. Will wait until my stack is together. Move a spearman into Persian territory next to Gordium. Will place on neutral mountain and then take worker (if unprotected) on the turn that the war begins.

950 (5)
One turn from declaring war and moving troops in. Primary invasion force ready to go. Swordsmen not close enough to the action headed towards Susa/Gordium region. Will be able to respond to either pattern of conquest – Arbela/Susa/Gordium or Arbela/Gordium/Susa. Barracks of Oslo completed. Persia moves archer/warrior pair near Tarkenton which is defended by a veteran spearman.

925 (6)
Ask Persians to remove troops or declare war. They declare war. My peaceful builder reputation stays intact. Capture worker on each iron mountain. Persia invaded. Warlust inspires people to greater happiness. Arbela expected to be attacked on the next turn. One of our workers is captured. MyVeii completes barracks. A mysterious border appears across the water to the southwest of Fahrbootstadt.

900 (7)
We attack Arbela. Our swordsman defeats a spearman, our archer defeats a spearman, and our elite archer defeats an archer. No units on our side lost. Arbela was only population 1 so it is destroyed. We have a settler on the way to the region. A settler in Arbela converts to two workers for us. We recapture our captured worker. Whip production of spearman in Tarkenton. That border is apparently the Celts. We make contact. They have horseback riding (the only tech they have that we don’t). They have iron, but not horses. They have incense, but no extra incense. They have 34g. Will wait until we have writing to see if they are isolated or if they know anybody. We are four turns from writing. We lose one archer during Persia’s attack. Rome is trying to send a settler/spearman/warrior trio to found near the iron. They lost their chance at a wonder when the Pyramids were built. Guess that gambit failed. Tarkenton survived an attack and is now defended by two spearmen.

875 (8)
What to do about Rome? Decide to let them to do as they please for now. We can make sure they don’t get iron hooked up and polish them off once Persia is weakened. We have twelve more turns of peace with them anyway. Will give us something to do during the 20 turns we are at peace with Persia. Position troops for attack on Susa on the next turn. Road is in place to quickly get to Gordium thereafter. Persia is sending in warriors. Tarkenton loses a spearman from attack by Persian archer.

850 (9)
Susa captured. Renamed Susa-Elen (after Sue Ellen – JR’s wife on the tv show “Dallas”). Contains a barracks We lose one swordsman. It was defended by two spearmen. Troops moved into position to attack Gordium on next turn. Enough troops mingling around to maybe consolidate and launch an invasion into the heart of Persia. Mystics learn the secret of writing. Research set for literature.

825 (10)
Attack Gordium. Does not go well. Lose four archers and only take out one spearman. Reinforcements will attack in two turns. Persia willing to make peace, but I’m not ready. They have map making, but no other tech that we don’t. The Celts and Persians have contact with the Greeks and Chinese. The Celts don’t want to give up horseback riding for writng. Will try to extort communications from Persia after I am ready to make peace. We have our first elite swordsman in an offensive battle in the war zone near the central iron mountain. Rome founds Neapolis near central iron mountain. Persia petitions us for peace, but is unwilling to give up map making.

800 (11)
Move reinforcements outside of Gordium. Should be able to take on next turn. Doing a little bit of pillaging in inner Persia. After Gordium, want to sue for peace and align forces to polish off Rome, so I don’t expect to take any more Persian cities after Gordium. That will be left for a second war with Persia. The positive happiness effects of the war have disappeared. Have to move luxury slider back to 30% from 20%. We lose a spearman and archer that were pillaging near Persepolis. Rome moves a spearman and warrior up onto the iron mountain, but no worker yet. Rome becomes upset by our elite archer hanging around Neapolis.

775 (12)
Gordium destroyed (it was population 1) by two swordsmen. One of them is promoted to elite. Basic objectives with war with Persia achieved. Now it becomes a matter of getting the proper price for (temporary) peace while being in a position to succesfully knock Rome out of the game and horde all the iron to ourselves. Persia can then be reduced to rubble. Hopefully, they won’t get iron through harbor trade. Begin to consolidate on neutral hill between Persepolis, Neapolis, and Susa-Elen. Persia now has code of laws, but not common sense enough to give up map making. One of our elite swordsman was killed off by an archer. Our swordsman was on a hill and across a river.

750 (13)
We avenge the death of our elite swordsman by killing off the offending archer. Our attacking swordsman gets promoted to elite. Aarhus completes temple. I was hoping to have had map making and converted project to a harbor, but it was not to be. Rome has abandoned defense of the iron mountain.

730 (14)
Advancing troops toward Persepolis. Sidon, Persia has a harbor. Don’t think they will be able to trade for iron, but keeping an eye on their resource box each turn.

710 (15)
Still advancing.

690 (16)
Now on the footsteps of Persepolis. Persia has horseback riding, but of course, no horses. Our elite archer is killed off by an onslaught of Persian archers. It was protected by a spearman, but the spearman substained significant damage during the the first archer attack.

670 (17)
Persepolis captured. Was defended by three spearmen, a warrior, and an archer. We lost one swordsman and two of our archers were promoted to elite. Six workers captured. Persian capitol moves to Antioch. Persepolis comes equipped with a granary. Someone sold communications with us to the Greeks. The Persians, Celts, and Greeks all have mathematics. Only the Perians have map making, which they are now ready to surrender. Still, we’re fishing for a great leader for the Great Library (literature is four turns away) and we might as well keep warring for now. Persepolis survives counterstrike. Temple of Stavanger complete.

650 (18)
Another archer promotes to elite. We are probably powerful enough to take on Rome and still keep at war with Persia when our 20 turns of peace ends with Rome. SlayVeii riots. Knew I should have abandoned that town.

630 (19)
Consolidation.

610 (20)
Nothing significant, except I accidently moved an archer into Roman territory. Literature is one turn away and we have enough troops to wipe out Rome and keep on with Persia. If we can get one of the elites to produce a great leader, we can rush the Great Library and have no need for a Persian technology surrender. My biggest fear is that the unknown world could be garnering a tech lead.

As mentioned, JR foolishly orders a group of archers into Roman territory thus delaying a renewed war with Rome by one turn. From out of nowhere an arrow finds it target and the reign of JR ends. The only question left is who shot JR?

Zany Zerkers - 610 BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Berserk-610BC.zip) http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/vikings-610_BC.jpg

Working on getting the map posted. Probably built too many swords (didn't read the thread after I got the game). Maybe overdid it with all military - but the island is now ours for the taking.

Edit - having trouble even accessing the uploads collection. Looks like there may be a problem. Will try again when I wake up tomorrow.

me <-- fingers itching ;)
meldor
gothmog
jollyroger
cgannon <-- up now

JR, looks good. If too many swords is our biggest problem then we have no problems, I await the screenshot to be sure. I do think we should extort techs (and maybe communications, and a WM) for peace from Persia once they are down to a couple of cities, that will help us not fall behind with the unknown world. Thus we should research only techs they don't already have. They have MM, CoL, and Math right? At that point it will not matter if Persia does manage to trade for some Iron, our homeland will be secure.

The GL would be nice but is not a game breaker, "we haf ways of making you talk" (insert bad german accent here).

Do we want to put our FP on our home continent or save it for another continent? If we move our Palace to, say, around where arbella was that would cover most of our home continent nicely and we could save the FP for another core.

Finally, cg played before me, I would think it is your turn now 'Killer', but you the man so what you say goes.

gothmog: NEVER build the FP off the home island! It will always be our strong core - while the Palace can be moved around from island to island as we conquer along!

I also suspect we have a large island closeby - at least close enough to already have contact AND with 3(?) civs on it. I'd jump the Palace there during the conquest that is sure to come AFTER building ('by hand' the FP close to Trondheim.........

Ouch, yes, I forgot that we changed player order.....


GOT IT!

well, I don't have it as the file server is down :(

Interesting, never build the FP off the home island (first off I never say never :lol: ). I have only played on a huge map once and never (there I go again :lol: ) on a larger than huge map so maybe that is where this strategy comes from but...

It seems to me that you want your two cores to be fully developed. If you keep moving your Palace around (I am guessing you use leaders to rush them? your pseudonym gives you away) haven't you moved it to a less developed position? And you have wasted a leader to boot. It seems to me that you will never have more than two cores and that you should have them both fully developed. Once that is done what is the advantage of moving your Palace?

OTOH: it doesn't matter to me whether we jump out Palace or build our FP near the center of our home island. Although there is some advantage to having both on our home island while we scout out another island for our second core.

The server went down last night before I could confirm that my game link was valid. If the link doesn't work when the server comes back up, the game is at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Berserk -610 BC.zip and the screen shot of the map is at . . . /vikings-610 BC.jpg.

Maybe we should gamble with a Great Library pre-build (we can always change to the FP if we get a Great Leader or get beat to the punch on the Great Library). Probably should have thought of that halfway through my turns, but I was overconfident that I would get a great leader and be able to report that the Great Library or FP is ready to rush as soon as we get literature.

Techs we are behind - Mapmaking, code of laws, horseback riding, and mathematics. We will have the exclusive on literature in one turn.

Summary of war - Got Antium for peace with Rome. Destroyed Arbela & Gordium (population 1 autorazes). Captured Susa and Persepolis. Troops roughly in place in two spots (and in sufficient numbers) to continue war with Persia & redeclare against Rome. Settler fortified in Susa - ready for use when the opportunity arises.

The X-man was stubborn in regards to terms of surrender. The best he was willing to give was {map making and contact with the Chinese} or {horseback riding & mathematics}. I did not try to negotiate at the end of the last turn, so maybe he will give the change in leadership more respect. He brings a lot of archers out into the open which are easy pickings for elites in our quest for a Great Leader.

Rome has nothing, but they beat me to the punch when they founded Neapolis near the central iron mountain. They have just now moved a worker to the iron mountain (unprotected), but Neapolis should fall easily and we have a settler close to the action (fortified in Susa).

I mainly cranked swordsmen from Trondheim & Wonderstandt and archers from everywhere else. If we have excess swordsmen, I'm sure we can use them up against Persia and Rome or in an early naval invasion (even if its just pillaging) before we get berserkers. They also upgrade to ME, but obviously the archer to berkerer upgrades would be the priority.

gothmog: once you have built up an area with courthouses, temples, libraries and marketplaces, maybe cathedrals, corruption is low enough that the place can pay itself and still produce troops. So you can then move the Palace away again and give 'developmental help' to other areas.

This especially works one factories and rail come into play :D

You end up with two real cores and a lot of corrupt, but self-supporting land - which means you cna outproduce even AIs with more land than you since they will have two cores at most and a lot of corruption swamps.........

And the leader: what else should I use them for? Wonders get build (pre-built) in my two cores, I often have three or more towns capable of out-producing the AI given a slight tech advantage :D




I played a lot of large and huge maps and always used this method - it works just fine and you can secure towns you captured with the palace against CF. I once had a town flip 3 times with 4 wonders in it - well, got a leader and it was MINE for the rest of the game :D

The CF protection is a good point, although there are other ways to deal with that. I think this may also be a good stratagy on huge maps where you have huge empires. You do lose alot of production and cash when you move the Palace before you rebuild your infrastructure around it, as well as the use of the leader, so I am not sure about the net affect vs just disbanding units and cash rushing in your new areas, which is what I typically do, especially in a shortish game. Also there are city improvements I build near a palace that I wouldn't build in a corrupt area (e.g. university or sometimes even library depending on corruption level). This also depends on your state of happiness as WLTKD's really help lower shield corruption. My gut tells me that on a standard or smaller map this is not your best move. I am undecided about a large map, and I am hoping to find out during this game what happens on a huge map! This is one reason I like SG's.

Also I don't seem to get many leaders. In my current SP game I am in a infantry war and have had maybe 50-75 elite victories. The only leader I got was after a lone infantry with one hitpoint well in the kill zone promoted after an attack, then produced a leader, then was killed off by a rifle. :rolleyes: If I did get leaders I would use them in the typical ways, armies, rush wonders, rush factories in my corrupt areas, etc. I also use the prebuild but never (whoops) for all the wonders, just the critical few. Because I play at diety I almost never have a tech advantage until after I get ToE.

gothmog: I agree that small maps make it a bad move. But here we are talking cash-rushin tens of cities per island - not good. Also, i find universities very usefull even at 50% corruption (as long as the town can pay itself, that is) because of the culture they give :D

again: this is for large and huge maps, and it is also a waste of leaders IF you have wonders to build. As for the happiness: Sistine Chapel is a pivot point in that strategy: get it and presto, you earn like crazy.....

btw, the loss in tax and prod tends to be lihgt as I usually put the FP right next to the old capital (Wunderstatt or Stockholm here) or a slightly better place. Only the second jump, to a far-away island, may seriously dent the budget.

Yes it is the second (and presumably third and possibly forth or fifth) that I was refering to. Actually you gain a bit before the second jump because using my strategy I would save the FP for the second core, while with yours you have both the FP and the Palace on your home island before you jump the Palace. In most cases I would think you will gain more than the FP costs in the meanwhile due to lowered corruption in your home island.

I think given our current set up that your strategy is best, I hope to learn about its vagrancies as well.

Also, I am guessing this strategy works better on Emporer. On diety you need to be very frugal and usually are comming from behind. Building a FP once is a huge chore and twice is often out of the question.

I tried using a palace jump in games with larger maps, but found it not the way to go for me. I may move the palace once, if I don't get a leader to build the FP and have to build it close to the palace. After that it is just as well to cash build in the new area. This is especially true after flight is discovered, as I then just use the production in the core and airlift it to the front. At hihger levels, the production drop at the old spot is just too much to pay, for an increase at the new spot, when you have to rush build the infrastructure anyway to get it going fast enough. Of course this also means that I will use the late game leaders to rush factories or such in areas close to the fighting. I use them the instant they come, if I can, so I can get another on the same turn if possible. I have had up to three leaders generate in a single turn (this was on a huge map, attacking 10-15 cities a turn).

Map now displayed in post #64. Link to zip file for game is also functional.

meldor: I agree that if the wars go fast you can do that. However, seeing as we will conquer using Caravels as transports, then Galleons for quite a while I still think it can be a good idea to have the capital close to the front (and we can after all use the many leaders we (hopefully) will get to jump the palace back 'where it belongs' after a conquest is completed.

I palyed a similar berserk game on an even larger map and found that WITH jumps I didn't have to fear flipping at all :D

Interesting thoughts on the FP issue. I thought about getting a headstart on the Great Library in Wonderstatt, but thought of what would happen if we got a Great Leader to rush with or got beat to the build by somebody we haven't met yet. My thought was the alternative would likely be the FP and I thought I would get permanently banned from the SG forum if we got in a situation like that. Now I see why it could have a been a good (or at least not so bad) thing.

preturn: I talk to Xman right away. Maths, Cod of Law, contact with China is good enough for me atm, I want to take out Rome now before they get iron again.

Renegotiate peace with Brennus and get Horseback riding and 10 Gold for it :D

switch Stockholm to Temple, this town is a good FP site and I want to develop it for more production.

Persepolis gets a Temple, I want to keep Xman around to extort him some more for a while I cannot accept the flip risk (former capital, after all)

(1) Literaute found, go for Poly (-->Monarchy) at +3 Gold.
Temple in Kufestadt, Archer ordered. We have so many archers atm that we should refarin from building more until we get our happiness up, lux tax down and thus higher income (or until we HAVE Great Library - 21 turns in Wunderstatt). Lots of cultural building ordered instead, I want to be able to research independently - and we WILL encounter very unfavorable culture rates during later conquests because of the distance to capital - so we need at least to have higher overall culture!

Move troops for attack, declare war.

(2) Roman attack-Spearman kills Archer. He is covered by a Warrior marching along :confused: The lack of iron seems to make Caesar...... ah, uncoordinated????
Roman archer alos promotes a swordman.
3 elites kill three defenders and raze Veii(?) - no iron for Rome. settler moves in for re-build.

(3) Caesar offers a weird deal: I disband a spearman and a warrior unit of his and he gifts me two workers.... who am I to say no?
Bodo founded.

(4) two stacks of roman troops have arrived next to Stockholm - as our troops can attack without being exposed afterwards I slaughter 9 Spearmen with 1 Archer lost. one of the Swordsmen involved now bears the name: Killers Elite Swords1man. 7 more Roman troops (archers and Warriors) cost us two mor archers.

(5) Bodo prooves to be a strange town. Size one, and only one building - but that is the Great Library. :D Killer Elite proove they ARE elite - and defend against an archer w/o HP loss. A valiant Roman Spearman tries to sneak past our troops to reach Bodo. He easily kills an Archer trying to stop him - but our Backup Elite Spearmen under their great leader Gothmog dispatch him. Hero that Gothmog now is he is ordered to train an elite group of officers to lead a combat force capable of dealing even with the strongest defenders: an army!

(6) rumors of a bloody battle near our village ROME reach the capital. Obvioulsy, the Roman posess a secret weapon that makes them fight better when almost dead (3 attackers got the enemy to 1 HP each, then died).

(7) kill more Romans.

(8) again. Persian worker (alone) heading for iron (colony???) block iron with spearman.

(9) yes, Persian worker builds road to iron :lol: too late, buddy! A Roman Archer tries to mop up a few of our Swordsmen. One of them is elite now. Troops approach Cumae, but will hold off - I want to leader-milk the Romans and get one victory out of the Army.

our other enemies are all filthy rich (around 80 to 90 Gold) but have nothing to offer. Well. I ask a Persian Galley out.

(10) 1 defender of Cumae dies - no leader :( Another one defends himself a bit better and the guy leading our Archers prooves exceptional talent in leadership :D

(11) A roman envoy brings a letter from Caesar. Now we have a nice new piece of tapestry for our brand new Forbidden Palace and King Killer has a new mug :lol:

(12) Rome has one Archer left defending, he gets killed by our army. Rome is no more :D

(13) start moving on Persia

(14) Poly found. Monarchy in 19 turns at +7 :eek: good thing I built libraries everywhere!

(15) and move.....

(16) and more moves....

(17) and more.... jeez, Xman must be afraid....

(18) ...

(19) Great Lighthouse rushed in Fahrbootstadt. Good thing we have Great Library.

(20) first chance to cancel peace with X-man next turn. Remember to build harnbors, THEn Galleys! We can't afford to loose two berserks because the Galley was regular, not veteran.....


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/berserk-210bc.zip

Will get it tonight.

Killer, you are the renegotiation king. I have never seen such a thing. Looks like Rome used their GA building troops, good thing they didn't have iron. :D

Way to go on a quick turnaround. That is how a SG should be!

meldor: I'll mail it to u, upload is extremely slow for me atm.

Wow, we got alot of GLs! :eek: Unless I am misreading, I see we rushed the Great Library, FP, Great Lighthouse...thats alot for 20 turns! :D Anyway, can someone post a map? It can be hard to follow reports, so I'd like to see our latest territory. Do we know where the Celts are? :)

CG

nope, cg, FP was built, not rushed... sorry, can't uplaod map, too slow atm :(

Change me from got it to getting it......

Great set of turns. Didn't even think to try to renegotiate peace with the Celts. A nostalgic trick I used to pull at lower levels, but had pretty much abandoned as I moved up.

We've got the Zany part down. War with Rome. Next player - immediate peace with Rome/war with Persia. Next player - immediate peace with Persia/war with Rome. And now, X-Man's days are numbered with the next player set up to clear our island of the remaining undesirable riff raff. And all with slow moving troops being constantly shifted from one zany objective to the next.

Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Forbidden Palace, and our first army - all in twenty turns. Where can I download the patch to your random number generator? Mine's obviously broken. Doesn't seem to come with the "Generate Great Leader" algorithm.

Originally posted by JollyRoger

Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Forbidden Palace, and our first army - all in twenty turns. Where can I download the patch to your random number generator? Mine's obviously broken. Doesn't seem to come with the "Generate Great Leader" algorithm.

You stand corrected: We didn't rush the FP. ;) :lol: Anyway, I agree, we've had amazing luck, even for a Militaristic civ. Three relatively short wars gave us this much is pretty amazing. I seemed to have set up the war, then missed all of them! ;)

@ meldor: :lol: The server is oddly slow...

CG

Originally posted by Gothmog
Killer, you are the renegotiation king. I have never seen such a thing.

:lol: my parents are studied lawyers and work for the secretary of finance of our state :lol: hard training from the crib on :lol:

Originally posted by cgannon64

I seemed to have set up the war, then missed all of them! ;)
CG

I like it, I love it, I want some more of it......

well I played one SP with the Vikings and I knew it would be good.... btw, it is not so surprising to get several GLs from quite a few elite victories! Since I intstalled PTW the intervals are a lot more regular than with Civ3!

My bloodlust is rising. We must build boats an export the war to foreign nations. :mwaha: :evil: :mwaha:
:die:

If I remember correctly the FP gives +1 movement to ships in this mod, I assume that is cumulative with the GLight. Thus we have movement 6 Galleys that can move over the Sea?

Remember that the GLight is an Expansionist wonder so if we build a Militaristic one (the GW or AoW) that will set off our GA. Although neither of these are too useful to us, it could be good to build one and get our GA before Zerkers, that way we could use our production bonus to build our initial Zerker force and gain cash for upgrades. This would gain us some extra time where Zerkers are the dominant military unit. If we time it right it could be Zerkers against spears and pikes!! :hammer:

I am a happy - :viking:

Originally posted by Gothmog

If I remember correctly the FP gives +1 movement to ships in this mod, I assume that is cumulative with the GLight. Thus we have movement 6 Galleys that can move over the Sea?


Speaking of that, Killer, could you post the complete modded rules? I've noticed a few here and there, but unless you've already posted it, could you show us all the rule changes? Anyway, who is up? Meldor?

CG

I am up, but didn't receive the file from Killer last night. Hopefully it will be waiting for me when I get home from work.

meldor: strange, the mail didn't come back either....

well, upload works now:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/berserk-210bc.zip


AFAIK, the sea moves are not cululative, 3 + 1 is all we have (how did you arrive at 6, gothmog?)

cgannon: what mods?

AI has less offensive units at the start, AI-AI trade is 110, tech min is 8, max is 60, techs are more expensive until modern times (I don't think we will reach them)..... that's what I posted already IIRC.....

FP gives +1 ship move (to lessen the impact of Lighthouse.

that's all IIRC.

210 BC (Pre-turn)
Renigotiate peace with th celts for their WM and 1g All they had. We now see the next island over. Chinese give WM and 98g. the Greeks give WM and 33g. I then build embassies with them for 153g. Celts are building swords (Galliec) have 1 lux, 1 entertianer and have 5 of 8 commerce going to Science. The greek city is pop 4, building a Granary, have 1 lux and is putting 4 of 7 to Science. The Chinese are building swords, have only 1 lux with 3 entertainers and are putting 9 of 17 to Science. The map tells us the Persians have two cities on a small island to our south. Unfortunately, while negotitation where being conducted with the Persianthey could not camoe to terms. They would have given us all of their gold and their WM but they would give us the citeis on the island. I the first action of the war, our Elite Sword takes out an archer and we get Erix Bloodaxe. It looks like we have nothing to build with him. I adjust science to get Monarchy in 7 at a lose. This will lwt me use the leader. Normally I would not go for the Hanging Gardens, but it will make 1 citizens hapy in any city, even across water. For this its worth it.
(I) Two Persian archers attack a sword defending our archers both both lose.

190 BC (1)
We take Bactra get 4 more workers. Kill two stra archers get one elite promotion.
(I) Two archers appear.

170 BC (2)
Kill one archer. We take Pasagadae. Kill the other archer. I am going to move the city of Susa-Elen. It need to be on top of that hill.
(I) Archer kills a sword.

150 BC (2)
Movement and consolidation. Kill a stray archer.
(I) Archer appears.

130 Bc (3)
Take Tarsas.
(I) Heroic Epic completes.

110 BC (4)
Take Sidon. Persia still won't give up the rest of its cities.
(I) Nada.

90 BC (5)
Nada.
(I) Greeks attack the Celts.

70 BC (6)
Rush Hanging Gardens, Start the trip into Monarchy. We draw 4 turns, not bad. Buy lots of entertainers until we get there. We can now trade with the Greeks and Celts, but we will wait to see who is winning. Don't want to make a deal and have their only harbor go away.
(I) We get the Hanging Gardens.

50 BC (7)
Movement and waiting for Monarchy
(I) Nada.

30 BC (8)
Re-assign some entertainers as HG happiness is felt.

10 BC (9)
Begin the siege on Tyre. One archer wins, the other loses.

10 AD (10)
Tyre is captured. Peace with Persia for 76g, Sardis, Samaria, and their WM. Redo all the towns as we are now a Monarchy.

30-170 AD (11-18)
Shear Boredom. Sell Persia silks for 3gpt and 23g, just to keep him as poor as possible.

190 AD (19)
Suicide Galley off of the western end of our landmass show a borfer. Hopefully the oceanic golds will be good to us.
(I) It Sinks.

210 AD (20)
A second galley is ready to try and brave the ocean. A galley to the North spots another island. Need to send settler(s).


"zerkers 210 Ad Saved Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/berserk-210ad.zip)

nice playin', meldor :D


did you get my PMs?

I got the PM with the e-mail addresses in it (but not wildfire444's. Nothing after that.

meldor: sorry, club me over the head with a Berserks Axe - I simply missed the fact that i hadn't yet added Wildfires mail to the list - doh!

Killer wrote: "AFAIK, the sea moves are not cululative, 3 + 1 is all we have (how did you arrive at 6, gothmog?)"

Yes, I meant 5 (3+1+1). Meldor can you confirm that these are not cumulative?

Turns look good, Persia is left with only its capital? Are we in tech parity with Persia? I guess with us having the GL it's not that important. Contacts are what we need.

I believe our turn order is:

Killer
meldor
cgannon
gothmog
jollyroger

which means cg is up. Given when we made peace with Persia you could end his existance on your last couple turns if you want (and plan for it). Make sure and only declare after our Silks deal expires (or get him to declare somehow).

gothmog has the order right, as always ;)

cg: go get them!

The galleys I used only had movements of four. Five would have been nice, then my suicide galley would not have died in vain.

[EDIT] BTW, at the end of my turn, the Greeks had not built another harbor after their one single harbor was destroyed by war. If I had taken any deals on that one turn I could it would have trashed our rep for the furture. Of course, I would have taken as much as I could in cash ( they just didn't have enough cash to make it worth the risk).

meldor: :( thanx...... I expected this, but still hoped for 5......

we should try to build a lot of Galleys and explore around a lot to see if we can get to others. Astronomy is a long time off, so we'd have a contact monopoly (and I am ADAMANTLY OPPOSED to selling ANY contacts berofe others find Astronomy!!!!!!!)


RULE: NO SELLING CONTACTS UNTIL ASTRONOMY!!!!!!!!!

I second "NO SELLING CONTACTS UNTIL ASTRONOMY" but I might have said it in lower case. Anyone caught selling contacts will have the their pointy hat confiscated, be forced to shave, and left behind with the women and children when the 'zerkers sail for glory.

Killer - will the FP give other civs +1 on galley movement? Will they know enough to use that advantage.

We should get that somewhere around 2049!

The great thing about the slow tech pace is that everyone will get the chance to pound someone with the 'Zerkers. I personnally think I have found a new faavorite UU.

When the units were first announced, everyone was saying that the 'Zerker was a wimp unit. It came too soon for the amphibious act to be of any use. The games I have played and the current SGs show that this can be one of the most powerful UUs in the game. I just love running down the AIs coast, leaving burnt cities in my wake. On almost any map but pangea, these guys rock. Worse for the AI, is that they can not recognize the danger of the Viking ships off the coast.

I imagine a foggy day on the coast. The quite villagers are going about there business and the watch towers are quitely watching the forest for the approach of unfriendlies. No one notices the ships silently slipping into the harbor from sea. By the time the sentries notice and the call goes out, it is too late. The bloodcurddling screams are already piercing the air, as giant axes wielded by the wild Norse begin to take their toll. By evening fall, no one ashore is alive to see the silent depature of the viking ships. Their forms outlined against the shore by the flickering light of the still burning city. One ship turns to carry the spoils back to the homeland, the rest move on to hit the next unsuspecting target.

*got it*

Persia will fall on my turn, and whoever else dares to challenge us....:D

CG

Can you skip me? I have too much work right now...:(

CG

gothmog: go!

cg: if you can get it after gothmog we'll jsut oush you back!

"Got it"

and Killer, any idea about the AI civs and +1 ship movement with the FP? If they get it and use it then selling contacts isn't as big a deal. Of course the AI will not go for suicide galleys, and I am not sure how often they build a FP, but still.

The AI will not risk the sinking of a ship. If you watch the way they move their ships they hardly, if ever, move out of safe squares. I have on occasion used this as an advantage. If you park a couple of ships in safe water, that would require the AI to venture into unsafe water (even if they could do so without sinking) they will act like that section is blocked. Since they do not have contact with anyone else, I would assume at this point that all of the other AIs are out of range for them and will be out of range until astronomy.

Well, they may not have built their FP's yet. If that does give them a +1 bonus, and they realize that they have that bonus (in terms of what is safe), then they could still make contact. I will play as if they will never make contact, just to be safe.

gothmog: I'd say we wait until we have explored all around us, then we talk about what the AIs can do with the +1. Thnax for bringing this up in time so we can keep an eye out on AI ships!

Didn't get to play my 20 last night, only did about 3. I'll finish up tonight.

Looking it over: we have lots of military and it is costing us big (~65 gpt). I stopped military production for now, and cut back on Galley production. To get access to something to build I traded Code of Laws around netting us Construction and some gold, no per turn stuff was accepted to leave all options open. Now researching Currency and prebuilding markets. I considered invading the Greek/Celt/China island but it will take most of my turn just to get things organized for such an invasion. Also going against Hoplites or Gallics with archers is not my idea of a good time. I may invade China toward the end of my turn though.

gothmog: as long as you leave enough gold and archers for when we get berserks ;)

OK I ended up playing 15 turns, just too much RL at home. Here is what happened:

Preturn: Trade around Code of Laws -> 220 gp + WM to China, CoL + 260 to Greece for construction, CoL -> 120 gold to Celts. I want some good infrastructure to build so I research Currency at max (10 turns at -6gpt). I think this is worth it even though we would eventually get it from the GL, we will gain much income before the AI gets to Currency. Changed many cities to aquaduct and a couple to Colosseum. Changed Sardis (one of the cities on our Southern Island) to worker.

230 AD - Rome starts GW as a market prebuild. Cumae temple -> aquaduct. Sardis worker -> temple. Persia calls up give them nada. Get galley in position for suicide run (to land that meldor noticed - good pickup meldor).

250 AD - Galley survives and meets india who had a galley waiting for us. I trade WM for WM + 10 gold. They are on a large island with England and the Zulu, the mongols are on a smallish island nearby. The zulu are pretty large and have Lit.

260 AD - Meet the English, trade WM for WM + contact with the mongols. Mongols are very weak.

270 AD - India now has philosophy and we get it from the GL. One of our Galleys in the North East meets America. They are on a pretty crappy island by themselves (tundra and a ton of Silk), don't have MM, and haven't met anyone. They are way behind in techs. Trade them CoL for their treasury (170 gp) and their WM.

280 AD - I hurry a harbor on Tyre (on our Southern Island) to get a lux down there. Persia declares war on the Greeks. I think they had a Galley in Greek territory, most likely right next to a city.

290 AD - nada

300 AD - Celts have a Galley out exploring near America.

310 AD - Currency comes in, I shut off research. Time to start saving cash for troops and upgrades! We enter the middle ages and start building markets everywhere.

320 AD - waiting for our persia deal to expire.

330 AD - Zulu establish an embassy w/us.

340 AD - Celts and Greece make peace. England delares war on Zulu. Income increasing as we build markets and our cities grow (reducing military support costs).

350 AD - China signs on in war with Greece against Persia. I found a new island south east of the American island. It is pretty good. I also find a small island well off our north coast, accessable with a small patch of sea in the ocean.

360 AD - Finally our trade deal with Persia ends. I dial up the Greeks and get a MA against Persia with them, they give us their treasury (only 30 gold) and incense.

370 AD - Ottomans are destroyed (hey we wanted to do that). Zulu complete GW. Sell around a couple techs for cash, may as well empty out the AI treasuries. Zulu and China have enough to offer, no one else has squat. Also it seems no one wants to trade gpt with us? We net 720 gp. I finish off Persia and our incense is gone too.

380 AD - 2 settlers moving near rome, destination island near America. Either wait for Galley to come down from the south or build one in Cumae.

Thoughts: We could have had the GW but I actually didn't want the GA just yet. Cash is starting to roll in (100 gpt or so) and we have a nice treasury already. The tech pace is very slow. There have been intra-island squables on both island. It is unknown what is happening out in the fog, but given that the Ottomans are gone already, and they civ to land ratio, I am guessing they are going pretty slow too. I didn't check the wonder page to see if anyone is building AoW. We can either just wait and build infrastructure and save cash, or do a bit of research ourselves and get invention (and our zerks) well before anyone even has pikes. We should deffinitely research invension ourselves if nothing else. We can also gain some more cash by occasionally selling a tech around. I consolidated our military somewhat.

Here is the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/berzerk-380ad.zip

Sorry no map, I just forgot.

JR your up...

Wow, nice playing! I was agfainst rading WM, but as all islands are out of reach for AI galleys it was a smart move :goodjob:


and good thinking on the marketplaces ;)



Jolly Roger: you are up - I'd recommend researhing a bit to get the zerkers before the others get Pikes. but do as you please.....

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkermini.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkerus.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkertarget.jpg


the US can wait I'd say - once all the others are too strong for zerkers we can use 'left-overs' to take them over.


the large neighbouring island looks ripe :D Entremenot would be a good capital, i think :D

oh, anbd we should think about razing a few Zulu coastal towns soon - they are as strong as we are on F8, and culturally similar, too!!!!!!!!!!!

JollyRoger: remember the y-wrapping for this map: you can possibly find new lands by going 'over the north pole' from zululand!

Thanks 'Killer' I wanted a screenshot (there is alot more map), but I just squeeked in 15 between RL. I was going to do it this morning before my commute but...

I also think we could turn on the research again. We are top of the heap and could blow everyone away. The limiting factor seems to be organizing enough Galleys and sailing them around. Do you know the cost of an archer -> 'Zerk upgrade? We do want to have the cash to upgrade at least 30 (more likely 60+), should be no problem - even with our current treasury.

It will be along time before the others are too strong for our 'zerks. Pikes are no problem, and even muskets are doable (especially once we take out their Saltpeter). The Zulu are an affront to our manifest destiny and should be delt with harshly.

Funny, I thought of Enteremont as our new Capitol as well.

Oh one more thing. I've been thinking about how to deal with the Zulu. Do we risk crossing with full galley's etc. and I realized there might be a safe path. From the north tip of our island you can get to the 2 square sea w/4 moves. Then you can get to our north settlement w/4 moves as well (although the first time across I didn't see it due to the fog). It may be that there is a 4 move passage across to the north tip of the zulu island from there. I didn't check but it is deffinitely worth looking for. A safe path for our 'Zerkers would mean alot for us.

I would also go for knights as well. 'Zerkers and knights are unstoppable. The 'Zerks take the coast and the knight clean up the interior.

With the tech lead, I wouldn't wait for it to come out of the GL, that just puts us behind. Crank it up. Its time to bring in the Age 'o the 'Zerker.

meldor. we can even do without the Knights - in my experience, Berserks covered by a few Musketmen can easily take over inland areas as long as there is high terrain to use for the approach. The large neighbouring island at least shouldn't be a problem.


One sort of attacker keeps us more floxible in planning - imagine going for an island when we lack zerkers but have lots of Knights. Not good.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
One sort of attacker keeps us more floxible in planning - imagine going for an island when we lack zerkers but have lots of Knights. Not good.

I definetely agree. No matter how important combined arms is, you really only need one attackers, especially when the zerker is this good.

I wondered how we found the Zulu, then I realized there was y-wrapping. You didn't say that, Killer....;)

So who's up?

CG

CG: 'Killer' said you could be reinserted into our rotation if you wanted. JR hasen't posted an 'I got it' yet so I would say if you can play tonight, post an 'I got it' and go for it.

yep, cg, get it.


btw: everyone please make a note of my mail - I might be absent from CFC for a few days..... slight disagreement with a certain person in OT.....

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkermini.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkerus.jpg
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/zerkertarget.jpg


the US can wait I'd say - once all the others are too strong for zerkers we can use 'left-overs' to take them over.


the large neighbouring island looks ripe :D Entremenot would be a good capital, i think :D

MY LORD LOOK AT ALL THAT TUNDRA! Ill be darned if oil dosent show up there.

obsessed nuker: could you take the copy of the pic links out of your post please? simply refer to it - since the pics are huge it will shorten load time for folks with slow connections considerable.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
yep, cg, get it.


btw: everyone please make a note of my mail - I might be absent from CFC for a few days..... slight disagreement with a certain person in OT.....

I am always risking a ban for my OT posts (and probably limerick & haiku posts for that matter). I'll give CG the traditional 24 hours (from the time Gothmog posted his turns) to claim his spot in the rotation. When the 24 hours are up, I'll assume the turn is mine and I will download the game and post accordingly.

JR: go now! then it will be cg after that.

Got it

OK, cg, too late. You are up after JR, this will then be your firm place in the roster.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
OK, cg, too late. You are up after JR, this will then be your firm place in the roster.

:eek: I was up? I didn't even know! :lol: I was online too...Its OK, anyway, I have alot of work this week...:(

CG

cg: I moved you back, then PMed you when i saw you were online... now you jsut go whenever you cna, then stick to that place in the roster.

Well done 'Killer', the object is always to have the game moving forward. It is easier to keep to a hard roster order, you made an exception for cg but didn't let it get in the way of keeping things moving.

380 (0) – Study the situation. Zulus are out of reach, except for suicide gallies. And they have the Great Wall. The only land at this point that will be safe travel during the age of Zerkers is the Greek/Celt/Chinese island and America. Up research to 30%. Will reach feudalism in 16 turns at positive cash flow. Trade wm to Greece for incense and 7 of their 8g. Allows me to up science to 40% and keep positive cash flow. Turns to feudalism reduced to 13. Press enter. Cumae – aquaduct -> galley. Tarsus – courthouse -> library. Stavanger – aquaduct -> marketplace. Sidon – temple -> courthouse.

390 (1) – Try to figure out how to position extra military. Decide barracks/harbor towns on east coast. Move galleys around trying to find as much land as possible. Various projects completed during turn. Trying to focus on getting city improvements in place and to build some galleys for the purpose of invasion. Most of our galleys are in far away waters and trying to discover new lands.

400 (2) - Good news. There is a four tile passage to the Zulus. It’s a long journey and they will probably have pikes (plus any benefits from the Great Wall) by the time we get there. They are already in the middle ages. We really need galleys if we are going to make that invasion. Between trying to settle the unclaimed islands, invade the Zulus, and find other civs, I don’t think we could have too many. Shaka is at war with both India and England. So far, it appears that it is a stalemate. I am not sure what the ruins are north of Shaka. But at the Zulu-India border, the cities are all in their native hands.

410 (3) – The large unclaimed island in the east is looking nice. Lots of wheat, cattle, and green. Even some hills. The Zulus and Indians kiss and make up.

420 (4) - Nothing of note

430 (5) – Tromso founded on two tile island south of America.

440 (6) – Nothing of note.

450 (7) - Ditto. Interturn, galley witnesses several impis heading south on their long march to England.

460 (8) – Celts want to trade territory maps. Notice they have finally hooked up iron. Finally getting enough galleys to mount a decent attack on China or the Celts.

470 (9) - Lincoln has the nerve to ask complain about our galley in his waters. I tell him he has nothing to fear for the boat’s captain, John Wilkes Booth. Susa-Elen completes marketplace. Begins courthouse. Stavager completes marketlace. Begins galley.

480 (10) – Last turn. Aside from the first trade to Greece for incense, probably the lamest 10 turns ever played in the history of succession games. I do not have time for more turns at the moment, so I will abdicate the throne halfway through my reign. We are 2 turns from feudalism. The Zulus have a larger military than ours, but ours is still ridicously large. Most of our offensive land troops are in Fahrbootstadt or headed that way. There are galleys headed that way also. When we get 4 or 5 galleys in place, I think it will be safe to load and launch an attack on China or the Celts. The Celts have just hooked up their iron in the past few turns or so. The Zulus are going to require a more organized effort.

If we build Sun Tzu’s, we will kick off our Golden Age. It may also be a good idea to prebuild Leonardos. If it can be timed to be completed the turn after we get invention, it will save us a ton of gold on the upgrades. I think it is set up for you warmongers to have fun. We have about four inner cities that can crank out an archer every turn or a swordsman every other turn if you choose. Its really just a matter of getting enough boats in place to launch a proper invasion.

Zany Zerkers - 480 AD Zip (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/berzerk-480ad.zip)

If I'm up now, please skip me. :( I have no less then *5* major projects due in the span of Monday to Tuesday, so I think I've have little chance for civ this weekend, let alone the internet. Sorry for holding up, but my teachers seem to think the week before Christmas break is a time to cram in everthing they forgot to do...:mad:

CG

Killer (up now)
meldor (next)
cgannon
gothmog
jollyroger


got it.

meldor, you are one lucky warmonger! you should see what i set up for you :D

I expect to have trouble uploading/mailing the game as my network is extremely slow :(

If you can get it to me, I can post it for you.

preturn: planning: I would like to send say 6 Galleys with zerkers after Shaka, just get him into a long war that slows him down, raze a town or two (or three).... Not really an invasion, rather harrassment while he cannot reach us. That means researching to Invention, then shutting research off. Upgrade 12 Archers right away, others as we earn money.

Then, invade China and Celts. Both have only two land-locked cities :D

(1) As Greece kicks us out, I for fun ask Alex what he needs for ROP. Horses, iron, contact with Zulu, Wm :lol: We will need to relieve him of a swollen head soon
Wunderstatt goes Palace as it would complete Archer right when we find Feudalism. Some exploring. set rally-points to Fahrbootstadt and sea square north of whale near MyVeii for archers / galley respectively

(2) Find Feudalism. Wunderstatt starts SunTzus, will take only 23 turns so i set research to slight negatice income to get leos available just then. Rome starts Palace, can then take over SunTzus.

(3) seems we (I?) ROP-raped Rome :confused: At least, that's what Alex says. Liz and Shaka make up - I don't wanna meet the kids :lol: Order some Pikes to cover zerkers on shore. No luck finding land to the north of cowland, will now run down east coast and try the south.

(4) as Rome is over-producing food some plain will be mined.

(5) MyVeii is rally point for Pikemen. Found Vadso.

(6) Stockholm starts some Catapults for shore-defence. Rally next to MYVeii, should then spread to cover southern coast to be used for bombarding approaching galleys.

(7) miss-move a Galley, suicide one south of Canton. First Settler reaches cowland. hem in a Celts Galley next to myVeii - we can now provoke them anytime we want to.

(8) Farsund founded. Suicide galley has survived, goes furhter and again finds water only. :( Risor founded.

(9) Zulu start Art of War. :mad: Dang! Well, we're so far ahead we'll get it. Our suicide Galley is STILL ALIVE! And it is in safe waters now - an uninhabitated island :D No way to get a settler there atm, but we can explore this area a bit. We also find the Iroquese south of cowland, they have contact with the Aztecs only. Still deep in ancient times, lacking all third level techs.Trade Philo to them for WM and contact - ****ty island, hills and jungle, which is mostly in the Aztecs hands, too.

Iroqus are stronger but have less growth potential - there's gonna be trouble on that island. The Aztecs are on same tach as Iroqs, sell them Philo, too for WM - nothing new.

(10) Hia gets unfriendly - I start to make special plans for him. After all, there's ivory on his island.....
trade two techs each to Greece and America for incense (renewed) and Dyes (new trade).

(11) and another contact - France. They have the missing contacts (5) and Republic. Do not trade, explore first around their island as another border is already in sight.
we are at war with the Zulu :lol: :lol: :lol: they wanted contact with Greece from us!!!!!!!!
Palace in 14, invention in 14 @ -14 Gold. Need to speed that by one turn somewhen or make sure to remember to go 'big picture' when finding Invention.
Found Fauske (tight, i know, but we will never have a Palace closeby so ICS looks good)

(12) halt Pikemen production, after all we won't loose that many. Selct archers instead :D Galley towns all get Collosseums now.
Meet Arabs. only 3 cities.

(13)

(14) Karistadt founded. aargh, lost count of turns here.... will go to what i think is 20....

(15) loose a suicide Galley. see light blue borders but can't contact. Up science to get Invention in time - 10% gives 3 turns (7 left instead of 10).

(16) we get republic. Light-blue is Spain. Russia met - might have all contacts now (?) Trade Poly around with Russia for WM. France has suddenyl caught up in tech - I think PTW is NOT working as it is supposed to here. Meeting us cannot have sped up science so much. sciecne down 10% gives invention at same turn as Palace.

(17) mis-move another Galley :mad: We have 118 archers atm, order three settlers.

(18) Jeez, I have it with galleys! Another one sinks....

(19) Sun Tzus completed :D our Golden Age is triggered. Wonderfull, money streaming in, Invention in 2 at +124 Gold. Then, we can shut off and earn over 500 Gold per turn. next ti the ininhabited island is more empty lands.

(20) Spain has killed the Arabs.

will play one more turn, then