LK36 - PTW, Germany, Deity, Conquest Challenge

OK - I am going to up the notch as high the 5cc conquest concept can go. We will dive into Deity.
NOTE: I have NO intention of making the LK series all deity, all the time

World = standard, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, medium Pangea
:eek: Difficulty = Deity :eek:
Barbarians = Sedentary - Thrust me, the game is a headache with them later in the game.
# Civs = 7
NOT culturally linked, NO restarting players.
Civ = Celts (we NEED a war unit with an edge)
All victory conditions are enabled, but we will only accept conquest.

Signed up:
LKendter


10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Mandatory requirements
Play The World Expansion
Must SHRED Emperor, Deity experience preferred.

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Rape - if you have to ask...
RoP Abuse (irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, etc.)
Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave
False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end)
Declaring War to break trade deals including actions like the Demand exploit to force a war, or demanding to leave territtory
False Alliances (ally with several people vs. a civ then peace with that civ), and other actions that completely abuse the AI limited diplomacy ability.
Spy exploit - If you fail to plant a spy, you CAN'T try again. The exploit is: you can infinitely plant a spy until the Civ declares war.
Demand exploit - You may make ONE demand a turn. The exploit is: you can demand to the end of time, and guaranteed to get a civ furious and almost to war.

Underlined are new for LK36

Lee,

I've been wanted to actually play an SG with you for some time, so at the risk of signing up for the game with the highest chance ever of failure... I would like to join :hammer:

A few comments...

> Must SHRED Emperor, Deity experience preferred.
:lol: Well said!

> The following tactics are PROHIBITED: ...
Good!

As far as the civ...
- Celts are a great choice. For Monarch or Emperor :P In our RBP1 game, they are just *chewing* up all comers. I'm concerned that on deity, our great unit just comes too early, affecting just one civ at most before Feudalism arrives. Playing Celts you pretty much need to forgo any ancient 'buildup' and go full bore rax and military, aiming to not just cripple, but wipe out one, maybe two civs in ancient era. Now THAT is not something I've done or seen pulled off on Deity. (But I've not tried that with Celts either)
- Germans - Instant archers and spears make for a brutal early archer or swordsmen rush, mil and sci traits are great for 5CC conquest, and of course... what better than Panzers for a game ending Pangaea sweep? I don't recall seeing a RB game with Germans, there's some odd perception that Panzers are cheating. I've avoided to go along, but thing them appropriate here. Still go PtW and have random civs
- Ottomans - Superb timing and superb UU for conquest, but I think you've just had a game with these
- Mongols? Mil and Expansionist, good for rax, promotions, finding all the prime cities spots fast, goody huts. Their speed 3 knight is also quite nice, and the UU timing is good for GA. Plus I've not played Mongols yet :P
- Vikings? Berzerkers? 'nuff said, but I see your always war game chose these tough guys (EDIT)

Anyway, if you're set on Celts that's fine, I'm just concerned it's UU is too early for Deity game.

This should be a very good or very painful game, maybe both :goodjob:
Charis

Lee, if you need one more, I will play, but put me down as a last option.

Must SHRED Emperor, Deity experience preferred.

Well I only have ONE possible emperor loss in recent times - Civ tournament 3-5, an insane OCC. It still isn't lost, but I am not sure out how proceed and have put if off to the side for a bit. I need to make 100 turns for culture win, but the modern age is about to start and I am hurting in the tech department big time.

I don't recall seeing a RB game with Germans, there's some odd perception that Panzers are cheating.
Uh, you haven't played the Ottomans yet, have you? That 8-3-3 cavalry units RIPS through rifleman.


OK - I will defer to some with previous Deity experience. A good point on the unit timing, and after your comments I agree the Celts are too early of a uu. The last 5cc challenge at emperor was primarily a cavalry rush that began to rip through the AI after getting factories.

After we get five players, we will VOTE on the best civ. I agree, we will have to knock at least one civ out of the game early if possible. This has been the standard protocol in the 5CC challenge - shrink the shield pool of total enemies.

Signed up:
LKendter
Charis
Open
Open
Meldor - alternate to fill the 5th slot.

OK this is going nowhere fast.

I am dropping the 5 city requirement.

This is now:
LK36 - Civ to be decided - Conquest challenge

I'm not sure it was the 5CC requirement that is getting you no takers. It may just be that there aren't enough deity players to fill that game.

I would be interested in another PTW game soon. I haven't touched it since LK34 finished while I was away ;).

Hotrod

Just a thought: Maybe all the Deity players need even more of a challenge. A regent player on the team and competing teams that must use a non deity players turns no matter how non-deity capable they are.

Rotation of 2 deity/emperor players, 1 regent/monarch player 2 more deity players. Ofcourse harsh scoldings will come with the territory :lol:

Well, I wasn't interested because of the 5cc. Last game we played that way was very very annoying for me.

Now a good old fashion conquest only game would be real nice. I'm in if its not 5cc.

Hehe, I was signed up solely because it was both 5CC and Deity!
If there are not enough to go after that prize right now Lee, feel free to change things to a game that can be filled. I'll pass for now if either the difficulty or 5CC nature change. (Maybe I'll take you up in a world map game)

(Didn't the concept get a 'close start' under Arathorn a few months ago? And abort just before getting going?)

FWIW, I'm test driving the ancient era with Celts on Deity, pursuing a warmonger opening. Either my opening was just too weak, or the map not right, but the AI's have just now gotten Feudalism and I'm *almost* at the point of having enough Gallic swords to start my first attack. That's how fast things move on Deity 8-\ I should continue anyway and see just how well the first war does go, albeit late.

Charis

Well, I wasn't interested because of the 5cc. Last game we played that way was very, very annoying for me.


Very understandable - that is why my future 5cc including Sedentary barbs, I was tired up the barbs also.

LK36 - Civ to be decided - Conquest challenge

Signed up:
LKendter
Architect
Open slot
Open slot
Open slot

Meldor - alternate to fill the 5th slot.

With the RBE games appearing to be on indefinite hold, I'll take up the challenge, seeing as my first Deity win was a domination with the Celts.

Emperor is getting too easy these days...

BTW... If you're dropping the 5CC requirement, it might be worth reflecting this in the thread title.

Woo, just what I've been looking for!

I almost passed over this one, thinking that it was still 5cc conquest. Looks like you're still fishing for players, and with RBP1 all but in the bag, I'm ready to try another one. I don't really have Deity experience per se (aside from a few games stalled in the Middle Ages), but I can rip up Emperor when I have a mind to do it.

If we were to put this one up to a vote, I'd not vote for the Celts, just because my other SG at the moment is as the Celts. I'd be interested in playing as Germany, Spain, India, or Mongolia, though, with the preferences going to Germany or India.

Hi

If you still look for one I would like to join

Rowain

It looks like we have enough to start. Unfortunately my Dell "lemon" 4100 laptop is giving me problems again. :( It is only 1 year old and already has a replacement keyboard and had windows reinstalled once (at least saving my work).

I am still trying to figure out the current problem. I may have to get a new hard drive, and I won't know for a bit what the answer is. Once I get the laptop going, I will start the game.

In the mean time - could everyone vote for the Civ they would like. My limitation - MUST be militaristic.

Militaristic, eh? I'd still like to see India, but if it has to be militaristic, I'd vote for Germany. I'd also be amenable to Japan, China, or Mongolia.

I've always had an affinity to the commercial trait - very useful for late game research, trade deals and rushing troops and infrastructure. The Romans are the only militaristic civ with this trait - are any of the new civs militaristic/commercial?

Religious or industrious also suits me fine.

Ah... forget it, I'll play whatever civ is selected :)

I would vote for Germany. Would love to see an epic late industrial /early modern age deity battle with Panzers. Our challenge would be getting panzers in time to be effective.

Germany is it, as I was also leaning that way.

Believe me, from what I have read - the free techs from Scientific will help big time at diety.

The only question left is barbarians? I originally proposed sendentary for the 5CC challenge. Since the 5 cities are gone, should I make the Barbs roaming? Don't suggest rageing - I hate barbs to begin with.


The good news - I am still checking the PC, but it appears to have been salvaged thanks to old fashioned CHKDSK. Guess being a computer geek pays sometimes ;)


I did ask a moderator to change the title.

Believe me, from what I have read - the free techs from Scientific will help big time at diety.

Speaking of that, Lee, you do know that you have the guy who came up with the "Nationalism Slingshot" (Architect) on your roster, don't you? :lol:

This ought to be a very interesting game.

Oh, and as for barbs, I'm partial to either no barbs (so the AI can't use all their free units to pop all the huts and jump even further up the tech tree and have a bunch of elite troops roaming around) or Roaming. If we were Expansionistic, I'd not mind Sedentary, but we're not so I'd just as soon the AIs didn't get that bonus. From RBP1, Restless barbs seemed like Raging ones from classic Civ3, I definitely don't want to face Deity barbs at Raging.

I prefer No Barbs on Deity

Rowain

The PC is acting screwy, after I thought OK. I think I need a new hard drive. Rather then delay the start indefinitely, I will let #2 start the game.

Signed up:
LKendter
Architect (starting the game)
Carbon_Copy (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve

Game parameters are:
Standard Map
World = standard, Wet, Warm, 5 Billion, medium Pangea
Difficulty = Deity
Barbarians = None Based on the other comments
# Civs = 7 (intentionally 1 short)
NOT culturally linked, NO restarting players.
Civ = Germany

All victory conditions are enabled, but we will only accept conquest.

@Architect - Please start the game. I am not using the laptop until Dell can give me an answer what is going on. If I can hold until Thursday, I can transfer all critical information to my desktop.
I do NOT feel obliged to take the first start - you choice if the first start is utterly absurd.

LK

Dell 4100 eh? We're pretty much a Dell shop, and have had almost no problems with them. The only one that has been a major pain has been... a 4100 laptop. The screen died, then the keyboard died, then the hard drive died, then the screen died a second time. My colleague now uses it with attached monitor and external keyboard, backs it up daily, and the next time something goes wrong with it is just going to hurl it off the top of our building.

It's just a coincidence I'm sure, but I wanted to pass on this little story to you... :eek:

May you have MUCH better luck with yours!!
Charis

Well I talked to tech support this morning after the machine came to life to about 5 hours.

I have to run some tests to prove it - but it looks like a bad hard drive. This *TURKEY* has a 4 year warranty, and it will be trashed before that warranty runs out.

I just ordered an external hard-drive to back up frequently. I have the critical information backed up daily, but this like 40MB mailbox with turns of gameing info, my world map variants, etc have no regular safety factor.

Here's our start.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36start.jpg

How many turns do you want me to play LKendter?

20 turns. After that it will be 10 turns for everybody.

Hopefully I will have the new hard drive and working PC by the time it gets back to me.

It looks like a decent start, at least we get a river.

I assume that the "strict 24/48" rule gets relaxed a little bit to accomodate the holiday weekend? I'm not sure if anybody on the roster isn't American (IIRC Rowain is Austrian), but two days from now is Thanksgiving and I can guarantee that there will be no space for 10 turns or posting "got it" on Thursday for me, being on deck.

If Architect can whip out his 20 today and pass, I should be able to do it tonight or tomorrow and pass off to Rowain, who, unless there is an Austrian holiday this week, shouldn't be sacked out from eating too much turkey and can play as usual. If something comes up and I can't play on Wednesday night, Friday night is probably the earliest I'll get back with my turn.

Originally posted by Carbon_Copy
I assume that the "strict 24/48" rule gets relaxed a little bit to accommodate the holiday weekend? I'm not sure if anybody on the roster isn't American (IIRC Rowain is Austrian), but two days from now is Thanksgiving and I can guarantee that there will be no space for 10 turns or posting "got it" on Thursday for me, being on deck.



I won't hit you with a "penalty" card over the holidays.

The "strict 24/48" is to stress that I don't want the type of player that takes 4 to 5 DAYS to return his moves. IMO nothing ruins a SG more then the game going into limbo. If you say you will finish Tuesday and can't - post a delay to Wednesday message. I want people to show signs of life for the game. Your warning about Thursday and not being able to play is EXACTLY what my rule is meant to accomplish.

4000BC(0) We take the first start as is tradition. We found Berlin on our starting location. I pick Iron Working to research at first. If we are lucky we can use it to barter. If not, we'll probably shut of research after this and just ride everyone else's research. I'm also hoping we can have a good ancient war with swordsman so knowing where to the iron is first could make or break our early efforts. I order up a warrior.

3950BC(1) Our opponents are the Babs, Aztecs, Persians, China, India and one other I can't tell yet. Looks like a pretty classic civ3 match-up.

3750BC(5) Our first warrior completes and order up a second one.

3600BC(8) Our warrior discovers Incense.

3550BC(9) We build our second warrior. I'm going to build 5 warriors to start, 4 for explorer duty and one for MP.

3300BC(14) Contact with India. The indians have Masonry, Alphabet, and Ceremonial Burial and also already have Bronze working and Warrior code so we have nothing they want in trade. We also find Persia.. Great... They lack Alphabet but I can't get it from Ghandi for anything.

3250BC(15) Our fourth Warrior completes.

3100BC(18) Our fifth warrior completes and I order up a settler. The persians are right on our doorstep.

3000BC(20) Here's the current map of our situation.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36dotmap.jpg

Red and Yellow dots are priority. Pink dots are suggestions to best leverage the gold mines. Green dot is on a river.

Here's the save:

3000BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-germans-3000bc.zip)

Weird - They are NOT cultural linked, but this is the first time a PTW game has given NO PTW civs. Looking at the right corner, it is clearly PTW being played.

I absolutely agree with yellow and red dots. Yellow dot appears next to incense, so the more critical city.
:confused: Why are the 2 pink dots and blue dot one from a river?

Finding a city that can build workers at a decent clip looks like our big challenge at first.

All I can say is we have our work cut out - attempting deity with relatively new deity players is hard enough, but this land is awful dry for a warm, wet world.

Signed up:
LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Arizona_Steve


@all - I still have NO clue WTH is wrong with the laptop. Dell was worthless, as I couldn't get a hard failure to prove bad hard drive. At this point I am in pray it doesn't happen again and back up like crazy mode.

3000 - I take over. Hmm, just curious why we didn't go for pottery ASAP. We've got to beat Persia to all of the good spots to our west and south, and we'll lag even further behind if we don't have a granary in our capital. In hindsight, our capital probably would have been better off one square east so that it would have picked up the cow and the whale and been on the coast, but this wasn't known at the time, so I can't fault Architect for his choice. I check the Space Race screen (F10, this allows you to see all the opponents in the game if you click "view space race"), and our full roster of opponents is Babylon, Persia, China, India, Zululand, and Azteca. So yeah, a classic Civ 3 matchup.

2950 - Nothing on my turn...

Interturn was very busy, though, Contact is made with the Aztecs, who have Masonry, Ceremonial Burial, and Iron Working (boo!). We can't buy IW for anything, but they are willing to trade Ceremonial for 50g. Since we really don't need that right now, I hold off. A Chinese warrior also comes into view, but doesn't want to talk right away.

2900 - The Chinese have Pottery, and will trade it to us for 2 gpt and 75g. I decline the offer for now, but might go for it the next turn to see if we can't get the price to go down just a little more. If we can find the Zulus in the next turn, that will break the over-rated monopoly price they're making us pay.

2850 - We really need to build a granary before we build our first settler, but we also really need at least one city between Berlin and Persia (especially with Susa already at size 2), so I'll go ahead with the plan to build that settler. That eases the urgency to buy pottery and build a granary, too, so we won't have to pay out the nose right away.

2800 - Berlin builds settler, starts barracks prebuild for granary due in 7.

2750 - The Persians have Iron Working, and might have iron already in their borders. :eek:

2710 - Nothing.

2670 - I decide to play with the dots and found Liepzig between our red and yellow dots, forsaking the grassland wheat to be on fresh water. We'll only be able to found one city before Persia puts another settler pair in our direction, and I want one city of buffer between Persia and us, so I had to compromise. We can then fit two more cities to our west by founding north of the lake by the Incense and southest of Liepzig by the wheat. That green dot site gets eliminated, but that one was never going to be a big producer until rails with only plains and mountains in its radius, anyhow.

Persia and Azteca got their hands on Pottery, so the price is much cheaper. I buy it from China for 50g, then sell it to India for Ceremonial Burial +6g. Berlin changes from barracks to granary, due in 17

2630 - Nothing

2590 - Boo, Persia pops a settler pair out of Susa and it's going to get those grasslands southeast of Liepzig.

2550 - It looks like the Aztecs and the Persians are already at war, as I see a Jag fighting with somebody in the fog in Persian Territory. If the Aztecs weren't in a Golden Age already, they are now. And from the Histograph, it looks like the Aztecs are winning. Persia doesn't yet have Alphabet, we can buy it off of the Indians for a 4 gpt and most of our 52g and sell it to them, but I don't know if that is going to net us a 2-for-1 deal for either Masonry or the Wheel or not.

The granary in Berlin is due in 8 (growth to size 3 in 10). Minimum science research on Iron Working should be done by the end of the next player's turn.

While it is going to be very crowded to our south and west, we have wide open spaces to our north and east. We'll probably be able to grab at least one silk.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-dotmap2550bc.jpg

Here's what our immediate area looks like. The persians are going to found a town south and east of Liepzig, while we need to focus on the red dot location by the Incense. We'll need to choose between the yellow and blue dots. Yellow dot has a lower potential but fewer tiles right next to the capital get wasted and we can use those flood plains for another city near the silks. Blue dot will result eventually in a stronger city, but doesn't mesh as well with the rest of our cities. Both are on fresh water. The white dot is the same as one of Architect's dots, and just about the only way we'll be able to redeem that plains cow by Berlin, while the orange dot is our best city location if we want to put one on both the coast and fresh water.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-germans-2550bc.zip

Signed up:
LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Arizona_Steve (on deck)

Hey Lee, what's the ruling on 1.14f? I assume that we'll require it eventually, but by when? I've already downloaded it and it looks like that I'll have to use it starting with my turn on RBP1, so it looks like when the game gets back around to me would be the latest date.

It doesn't look like any of those changes with the patch will affect this game very much since none of the PTW civs showed up, about the only thing that caught my eye is that with the new patch the AI can no longer trade contacts without Writing.

My standard has always been patch ASAP.

Even with my PC being quirkey, I have already downloaded and installed the path.

I can glad about the AI contact trading fix - I missed that one, archer --> Bezerck caught my eye. I though the AI sold human contact to quickly.

I'll patch before I play my turn


Rowain


PS: same for LK35

I will be out of pocket until Sunday due to Thanksgiving holidays.

Turns till 2150BC

2550BC (0): Diplocheck India has Masonry + Alpha; Mao the same plus the Wheel; Persia + aztecs have Masonry Wheel and IronWorking but Monty lacks Pottery;

Pottery + 4gpt + 50 to Monty (I prefer Monty to X-Man) for Iron Working;
Iron Working to India for Alpha + Masonry + 20 gold :eek: ( some turns later i know why he gave so much. He has no contact with Aztecs or Persia :D ) Alphabeth to Monty for Wheel and 70 gold; IW to Mao for 50 gold ;

Mathematik started

2470BC Leipzig fin Warrior since Leipzig is in a culture war i order a Temple; Aztecs now have Mysticism;

2430BC India has Writing and no contact with Persia and Aztecs; Delhi start the Pyramids;

2350BC China start Pyramids too

2310BC X-Man has Horseback; China has Myst; and Monty has both ; Xerxes still lacks Alphabeth so Alphabeth plus 25 gold to Persia for Horseback; Horseback to Mao for Mysticism; Wheel to Ghandi for Contact with Zulu; Shaka is way behind;

2270BC Granary in Berlin finished Settler started;

2150 BC Lux up to prevent riot in Berlin ; India start Oracle;

We are par with Monty and Mao lack (at least)Writing compared to Ghandi and are ahead of Persia and Zulu;

Game:
LK36 (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-germans-2150bc.zip)


played with the new patch !!


Rowain

When I was doing my Diplo rounds, I must have forgotten to check what the Aztecs had, else I would have done some wheeling and dealing with them for Pottery on my turn :smoke:. Good job catching that and getting us back on track with technology.

Now, the big question is this: can we take advantage of this early Aztec-Persian war? It's possible that with Monty at the height of his Golden Age that his little Jaggies could swarm over whatever Persia has for defense and will swallow up or cripple Xerxes. With only two cities on our side we definitely can't take it to him now, but if this war gets prolonged until we have swords (speaking of which, do we have iron?), does anyone think we could take out a chunk of Persia?

Having to download the patch via 56K right now (there is NO broadband access of any kind in this area :( ).

Hoping Thanksgiving doesn't interfere too much with my civving activities. I'll tentatively say that I'll have the game uploaded by this evening, but don't be surprised if it's not there until tomorrow...

Well, I got a quick set of turns in, much to the consternation of my G/F.

Inherited Turn:
I look across our vast tracts of land (umm... two cities actually). Normally for a conquest game I would place my cities close together and set them to barracks as a first build. In this case, Leipzig is building a temple to expand it's borders to reach the iron in the mountains, so I will let that complete first.
Berlin already has it's granary so it's job is clear. Pump out settlers and workers.
No changes needed to the luxury / science sliders.
X-man is already annoyed with us. I'd like to swing a luxury or gold-per-turn deal with him so that he loses out if he sends his immortals our way. Let's hope he doesn't have iron.
Ghandi has writing available. I would like to see this get brokered around a bit before I buy in. However, we can sell communications to Persia and the Aztecs to Ghandi, so timing of the deal is critical here.
I watch as the Aztecs take swipes at invisible Persians in the fog :lol:
India begins the Colossus.
Zululand begins the Oracle.

(1) 2110BC
(2) 2070BC
Warriors explore.

(3) 2030BC
Berlin pops out it's settler.

(4) 1990BC
Berlin build changed to worker.
Our settler is ordered to head to the revised red dot. A warrior is sent South to meet up with him.
Montezuma acquired writing last turn. He requires contacts with the Chinese, Indians and Zulu. Montezuma gets contact with the Zulu, we get writing.
No-one else has anything worthwhile to offer for writing. Hopefully another tech will pop up soon, and I can sell more contacts before the AI civs find each other.

(5) 1950BC
More exploring.
China complains about a warrior in their territory. It's difficult to see borders in the jungle.
Berlin spits out a worker. I start it on a temple to allow the population to build back up, prior to spitting out more settlers.

(6) 1910BC
I put luxuries down to 0% for 1 turn (leipzig is about to grow). Should've done this when Berlin spat out it's settler.
Warrior withdraws from Chinese territory.

(7) 1870BC
The usual check of the Foreign Advisor screen shows no new techs. The bad news is that communications have been brokered around.
A helpful Persian worker is connecting our horses for us :)
Luxuries to 30% (ouch) to prevent disorder in Leipzig.
Interesting interturn. Persia builds a colony on the horses. Right next to our settler :lol:

(8) 1830BC
Stephenburg founded, immediately blowing away the Persian horse colony. I set it to temple, fully expecting it to be vetoed by the next player.

(9) 1790BC
Warrior fortifies in Stephenburg.
Still no techs for sale.
X-man demands 26 gold. We have one warrior in each city, so I cave. He doesn't appear to have iron though, as I've not seen a single immortal. A definite target for our first attack!
Leipzig builds it's temple and is switched to settler.

(10) 1750BC
I can drop luxuries to 0% and notice that we have one happy citizen in each city. It's explained by the incense being connected last turn. We go from -1 gold/turn to +8 gold/turn.

NOTES:
I believe X-man should be our first conquest target, as he appears to be lacking iron. I've not seen any immortals.
Let Berlin complete it's temple, then it should be able to pop out two or three settlers in quick succession.
Feel free to veto the temple in Stephenberg.

K36 - 1750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK36-germans-1750BC.zip)

1750 BC - I wish we could have gotten more for contacts :(
Stephenburg - Veto temple for another worker.
I veto temple in berlin for a spearman, with settler to follow. I don’t feel we can afford the delay of the settler that long.
:goodjob: to persia - we already have the incense and horses on-line thats to there road!
(I) The Aztecs and Persian are still fighting - I saw two units of theirs die.

1675 BC - Mapmaking has appeared, but just for India.
China built Hangchow near us - wonder what resource is there?

1650 BC - Our 40 turn research on Math doesn’t accomplish much, as India just got it :(

1625 BC - The insane tech pace of diety appears, as China has Code of Laws.

1575 BC - The Zulu must know the least about the world, as wm and $168 gets us mapmaking.
Time to see what I can get -
Persia gives us tm and wines, I really don’t know how much value the wines have, but I wasn’t about to say no.
India gives us tm, $1 for wm.
I buy the Chima tm for wm, $10.
There just isn’t much money out there, so I simply sell wm for Aztecs for $3.
(I) Stephenburg will claim games with temple, so I order one.

(8)
1550 BC -

1525 BC - One $1 from the Zulu, but finally somebody wants a revised wm from us.

1500 BC - This is better, I get $4 and an improved India tm map. Well I should have done it 3 turns ago :smoke: I give Incense to Persia and get there complete wm. I resell our map and get $3 more. I doubled our income this turn.

Summary - We may as well let math finish at just 10 turns. We already have CoL to buy when we get the cash.
The irrigation by Berlin is to get water to the cow and get the red dot city going.

We have NO embassies formed yet.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK36-1500BC.zip


LKendter
Architect (skip - not available to Sunday)
Carbon_Copy (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck) Needs to watch happy real careful, 3 turns of no incense or wines during your reign.
Arizona_Steve

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LAK-211.jpg
Red dot gets us an irrigated cow and some growth, and is better the river spot and overlapping borders with China.
White dot gets us a flood plain city, while black dot also gets us silks. Black dot violate the deity safety rule and culture conflicts with China. If it is built, then TEMPLE FIRST, including a whip to get the last 20 shields.

Wow, that was a quick turnaround back to me. Probably look for this to come back Friday night, as one of my brothers just bought Vice City yesterday and I am getting too into it to play serious strategy games tonight.

1500 BC (0) - Nothing needs to be done

1475 (1) - Konigsburg founded on cow city tile. Persia founds Bactra by the ivory out in neutral territory, that leads me to decide to found on the black dot instead of the white, to ensure that silks are going to be ours. I establish an embassy in Persia, to improve our relations (the last thing I want to happen is to make them mad at us right now). It looks like they made peace with the Aztecs at some point

1450 (2) - Interturn, a Chinese settler pair comes out of nowhere to sit on top of the hill by the silks, likely to found next turn. I don't have any choice but to put our settler down where he stands. It won't get us the silks, but at least we'll get some of those floodplains. Frankfurt starts a warrior. Checking AI techs, everyone besides Persia has Philosophy, Mathematics, and Code of Laws.

1425 (3) - Chinese settler pair turns around. Babylonians build the Pyramids.

1400 (4) - China completes the Oracle.

1375 (5) - Berlin builds settler, starts a barracks. It won't finish on my turn, so there's still some veto room.

1350 (6) - Nothing important. Settler is going to try for the silks spot, but if he gets denied he can found a city to the northwest of Stephenburg. And that looks like it will be almost the end of the land-grab phase of this game.

1325 (7) - India completes the Colossus in Calcutta.

1300 (8) - Forest chop on the game square by Liepzig completes, but the resulting loss in shields per turn doesn't make the granary arrive any faster.

1275 (9) - India starts the Great Wall

1250 (10) - We complete minimum research on Mathematics, start on Literature, but with no beakers invested, we can change without penalty if people wish. I check to see what has been researched beyond Math; India and Zululand have Construction, nobody else does. India and Zululand don't want to hear anything about selling Construction.

All of the projects I have started can be vetoed (if you want to go from barracks to settler in Berlin, first change from barracks to warrior to clear out all but 10 shields, then switch to settler and MM so that it settler builds as soon as Berlin hits size 3). I am figuring that the land grab phase of this game is all but over, we might be able to wedge one more in between Bactra and the rest of Persia if we can found our silk town (which we'll very much want to do since that will give us 7 cities), but that's about it. I'm expecting world war to start breaking out soon, especially between the Zulus and the Chinese and another round between Persia and Azteca, with Persia having the advantage this time once they get off their duffs and connect their iron.

Konigsburg with its whale and cow tiles would be almost an ideal worker farm if it weren't our only coastal town.

The wonder cascade broke really early, even for a Deity game. About the only wonder still cascading is Persia going from the Colossus to the Great Lighthouse, which means that they'll probably get it unless Babylon pulls it out from under everyone.

Here's the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-1250bc.zip

Summary - 6 to 7 cities will be it? We will have a pretty small production base, and can we even build the fp?

LKendter
Architect (skip - not available to Sunday)
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf (currently playing) Needs to watch happy real careful, 3 turns of no incense or wines during your reign.
Arizona_Steve (on deck)

@Lee Nope FP on standard needs 8 cities. But once war breaks out we will have our chance to get the needed cities.


the years till 1000BC
beginn:

Berlin finish Barracks and start Spears (a Spear every 4 turns)

Leipzig started a Settler after Granary with the goal toget a city between Bactra and rest of Persia. Sadly Persia settled there first at 1100BC. Nevertheless I let the Settler finish to settle the plains between Frankfurt and Berlin. Munich was settled on the Incense at 1150BC.

1100BC last turn we have Wines so I raised the Lux-tax. Still Construction is too expansive although we are now at Close to a deal. Sadly India demands 27 gold and TM at 1075 BC. so still close but not enough.

1050BC marks technological Breakthrough: Aztecs have now Polytheism; Zulu and India have Poly+currency+Construction , All have Philo + CoL. Trading Round started :)

175 gold + 11 gpt to Ghandi for Currency (Construction still not affordable) ;
Currency to Monty for Poly + TM;
Currency to Mao for Phil + WM + 125 gold;
Currreny + Poly to Xerxes for CoL+Wines+WM+17gold and finaly Poly to Mao for his 55 gold;
With Wines I reduce Lux back to = we make 6 gpt;

To improve our relationship I buy an embassy in Delhi for 58 gold. They make 12 shields, run 70%Science have 2 Entertainers and will finish GreatWall in 2 turns. Only Zulu and India have Construction but else we are even in tech.

On the last turn Persia finished the Lighthouse and India completes the Great Wall. We also got our Incense back but I leave it for the next player to either trade it immediatly or wait few turns to get Construction.

During the hole turn Persian Archer-Settler pairs were moving in and out our Territory.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/1000BC_2.jpg

and The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/lk36-germans1000bc.zip)

Rowain

LKendter (on deck)
Architect (skip - not available to Sunday)
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve (currently playing)

I have the game, but will probably not get to it before Monday evening (the "mother-in-law" has been here for the last week, and I have been dragged here, there and everywhere by my G/F)...

I'll do my best to keep things going here.

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
(the "mother-in-law" has been here for the last week, and I have been dragged here, there and everywhere by my G/F)...



Sorry to here that ;)

Managed to finish my turns while "cutie-pie" :p :love: went shopping :)

Inherited Turn:
Not much available in the way of trading - Only India and ZuluLand have construction. I decide to wait before doing any trading.
I see that we can slip in a couple more first ring cities between Berlin and Frankfurt. I switch Leipzig from barracks to settler. We already have another settler next to Berlin
We have troops in Aztec territory.

(1) 975BC
I find the offending warrior and move him out of Aztec territory.
I wonder why we have a spearman standing on our iron. I'd rather see him fortifying a city, so he is moved towards Leipzig.
Berlin settler heads towards the first of our new first ring city sites.
We have a warrior between Zululand and India with no hope of getting back to our land without annoying everyone. I'm not sure what the general policy is here (disband or send him back through foreign territory), so I send him on the trek back through Indian land, as they are generally less agressive than the Zulu.
Ghandi naturally complains about the incursion.
Berlin builds spearman, starts another. It will need a temple at some point though.
Frankfurt builds worker, starts another.

(2) 950BC
Frankfurt worker is sent to the flood plains for irrigation duty.
Aztecs send an archer and a settler into our territory next to Stephenberg.
Konigsburg builds temple, starts barracks.

(3) 925BC
Munich builds warrior, starts temple.
Our warrior is kicked out of India.
India begins the Great Library.

(4) 900BC
Heidelburg is plopped down to the NE of Berlin. It's proximity to the capital will ensure low corruption. A warrior is started there.
I notice Mao has Republic, and India has Literature in addition to Construction. Construction is also in the hands of the Zulu.
Neither Ghandi or Shaka will sell Construction. Mao won't sell the Republic. Literature can be had @ 2nd civ - too expensive for this cheapskate leader :)
Berlin builds spearman, starts another.

(5) 875BC
Berlin spear sent to Heidelburg to fortify. Heidelburg build changed from warrior to barracks.
Stephenburg gets a spearman defender.
No changes to the tech situation.
Shaka demands territory map and 28 gold. I cave, we are in no fit state for war yet.

(6) 850BC
Xerxes has acquired construction, but no-one will sell it to us.
I sell round our world map, netting us 12 gold and a trio of territory maps. Every little helps.
Leipzig builds it's settler and goes back to a barracks.

(7) 825BC
Heidelburg gets a spearman to defend it.
It looks like China and India are in the Middle Ages.
I check what's available.
Zululand - Literature, Construction.
China - Literature, Construction, The Republic.
Aztecs - Literature
Persia - Literature, Construction, The Republic.
India - Literature, Construction.
So... Construction from India (nobody else will sell) for 200 gold + 9 gold/turn.
Construction to Aztecs for Literature + their World Map.
Selling round our World Map nets us a couple of World maps and some gold.
We enter the Middle Ages, getting Monotheism as our free tech. I switch to Feudalism prior to hitting the space bar.
Berlin builds spearman, starts temple.
Konigsburg builds barracks, starts spearman.
Frankfurt builds worker, starts another.
Aztecs and Zulu start the Great Library.

(8) 800BC
I cannot swap our free Monotheism tech for anything good here. Those civs that have The Republic also have Monotheism.

(9) 775BC
Nothing much - although I check for a possible Monotheism / Republic swap.
Persia and China begin the Great Library.

(10) 750BC
Boring!

Notes:
Next player should check on the Aztecs each turn to see if they get The Republic. If so, we may be able to swap Monotheism for it.
I was attempting to get a spearman in each of our cities. Only Frankfurt and Munich are without them now.
There is a settler near Konigsburg. We should be able to get another city in near there.

LK36 - 750BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK36_750BC.zip)

750 BC - I see that we can slip in a couple more first ring cities between Berlin and Frankfurt.
I can't figure out any other spot that makes sense for another city - Heidelburg is already an ICS city.

Leipzig is NOT mm right - switch from forest to mined grassland - same shields, but faster growth.
Frankfurt can't use the shields, so move to flood plains.
This is deity - we can't afford riots, yet Berlin was ready to!
I up the luxury tax to 10%. We are now losing $1/turn, as we are over committed on GPT deals.
I noticed that science is 40-turn for Feudalism - the AI really overvalues Republic, so I turn that into a 40-turn gambit in case we can't get Republic in a trade.
I scrounge up $16 from wm trading and re-trading more then doubling our cash reserve.

730 BC - (I) We need to improve our cash flow - Leipzig starts our first marketplace.
A harbor will let Konigsberg get more from the whale square, and it will open up sea-based trade routes.

710 BC - I get completed updated maps and put $3 in our pocket.

690 BC - (I) Aztec / Persia begin fighting again :)

670 BC - Forget Republic from the Aztecs - they just got it ALONG with Monotheism.

650 BC - Berlin grew forcing 20% luxuries; we are now bleeding $3/turn. I can't wait to our first payment to India ends.
(I) No thanks Persia; I don't want to ally with you vs. the Aztecs.

630 BC -
(I) Berlin to marketplace, we really need cash, and once the Silks are hooked up, and extra happy face.

610 BC - Thanks to the Berlin temple, luxuries drop to 10%.

590 BC - The loss of the Persian wines cost us $2 for higher luxuries, what the wines cost us $6. I pass on new wines from Persia. Feudalism is starting to appear, but we need to wait for 6th civ prices.

570 BC - I pick up a worker from India for $32, $4/turn. We still have plenty of tiles to develop.

550 BC - We can't afford to up luxuries up to 30%. I hire a scientist in Leipzig, and drop science to 0% letting us get some positive cash flow.


Summary - The settler by Stephenburg is waiting for a chance to vulture a spot if the Aztecs raze any cities.
The cash flow should improve big time once the marketplaces come on-line.

LKendter
Architect (currently playing)
Carbon_Copy (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/LK36-550BC.zip

I got it, will play tonight.

I was unable to play last night. I will try again tonight. If I don't post tonight then skip me.

550BC(0) I leave everything as it is.

530BC(1) Time to chop some timber... China demands tribute. I cave.

510BC(2) Nothing to do at all this turn.

490BC(3) The silks come on-line and we reduce luxs to 10%. We are at +12 gpt.

470BC(4) ...

450BC(5) ...

430BC(6) Our Leipzig Marketplace completes. I start a courthouse. The persian's send a spearman into our territory.

410BC(7) The Persian's leave for now. Both the aztecs and the indian's have galleys off our coast.

390BC(8) Our gpt is back to 24.

370BC(9) ...

350BC(10) ...

A pretty boring set of turns. We can probably make some deals for tech but nothing techwise is really pressing. Building up some cash for when we switch to republic is not a bad idea either.

350BC (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-350BC.zip)

A pretty boring set of turns. We can probably make some deals for tech but nothing techwise is really pressing. Building up some cash for when we switch to republic is not a bad idea either.

There is nothing wrong with that on deity. GOTM #14 which is a deity is nasty, and I am barely holding on.

LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy (currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Arizona_Steve

expect it sometime tomorrow night.

Sorry, couldn't get it by then, expect it sometime Saturday afternoon, instead.

Just to let you guys know, we will be skiing this weekend. I will try to get the game Sunday Evening if it comes my way.

350 (0) - All I do is establish an embassy in Beijing (only 38g) Beijing is pulling in 9 shields per turn, the Chinese have 7 sources of luxuries, and Sun Tzu's Art of War is due in 22 turns. I take the diplo rounds and notice that neither China nor the Aztecs have Engineering, but I can't find anyone willing to trade us.

330 (1) - Berlin completes marketplace, starts a cathedral.

310 (2) - I make a deal where we trade our only silk away to the Persians in exchange for one of their spare wines plus 2 gpt. Hey, 2 gpt is 2 gpt, and Xerxes moves up from Cautious to Polite.

290 (3) - Zulus complete the Hanging Gardens in Ululundi. I continue to unsuccessfully look for a means to broker Engineering

270 (4) - The Chinese get Engineering. The Aztecs still don't have it, but the price is too steep for us to mortgage our economy to get a discount deal from the Aztecs.

250 (5) - Nothing much besides the Persians going on a rampage. The Aztecs are down to six cities.

230 (6) - Liepzig completes courthouse, starts horseman.

210 (7) - Konigsberg completes market, starts aqueduct, Frankfurt completes worker, starts worker, Heidelberg completes granary, starts marketplace.

190 (8) - Stephenburg completes market, starts barracks.

170 (9) - Liepzig finishes horse, starts horse. Persians capture Malinalco, Aztecs down to just their first 5 cities.

150 (10) - Nothing much. Aztecs still don't have Engineering, we can probably trade it for steep discounts on the government techs or Feudalism if we want to spend 18 gpt, 350g, and our world map for it (best price is from India). I'll leave that one up to the next leader. If we decide to delay brokering a bit, some more embassies might be a nice thing to spend our treasury on.

Rowain deWolf ---->UP
Arizona_Steve ---->On Deck

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk36-150bc.zip

150BC (0): Oh oh Persia is a Monster;

I decide todo the trade for Eng + Feud. I want to have Pikes and Med Inf as soon as possible.

So WM+425 gold+ 14 gpt to India for Engineering; Engineering + 3gpt to Monty for Feudalism;

IT: Shaka demands and gets TM

130BC: Munich whips Temple; wee start road to connect Iron;

Munich Temple->Library; Leipzig Horse->Horse;
Persia captures Tenochtitlan;

110BC, 90BC :sleep:

Frankfurt Worker->Temple;

70BC
Persia and Aztecs sign Peace; Monty is down to 3 cities;
Persia completes SunTzu in Susa (next to our border) and starts Copernicus and Sistine; China and Shaka start Sistine and Leo; India starts only Leo;

50BC: Monty has Theology but I can't buy any other tech so I found an Embassy in Z-town; It makes 16spt (after waste) and has 5 foood surplus; Shaka has 7 Luxes and runs 50%Science;

Monty starts Sistine; Ghandi starts Copernicus and finishes Sistine; Shaka starts Copernicus;

30BC since our Warrior is now in Indian Territorry I disband him;

China starts and finishes Leo + Copernicus :eek: and ends the Cascade;

10BC Leipzig Horse-> Cathedral;

10AD
India offers Contact with Babylon for 90 I take it for 85;

30AD; Babs lack Mathe and Poly and has no Money ; I sell them Mathe for their WM; They have alot of Cities;

We learn Republic I set Science to Theo (IIRC) but it coukld easily be changed ; Since we have to pay 17 gpt and only 50 in the bank I didn't revolt;

Berlin Cathedral-> Pike; Mao starts Bach;

Scientist is now in Konigsberg;

The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk36-germans-50ad.zip)

Arizona-Steve is up. Good Luck :)

Rowain

I decide to do the trade for Eng + Feud.
...
China starts and finishes Leo + Copernicus

OUCH! We are way in the hole for technology.


Since we have to pay 17 gpt and only 50 in the bank I didn't revolt;
I agree, however AS #1 job is to get us enough cash reserve for an 8 turn revolt, and get there. We will NOT catch up to the AI without the extra cash from Republic.


LKendter (on deck)
Architect
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve (currently playing)

IIRC I think the size of the empire has some sort of bearing on how long your anarchy is going to be. At 7 cities, we're pretty dang small, so we stand a good chance of only getting 2 or 3 turns, but that's not a guarantee.

Got it... Hopefully I can do my turns tonight...

EDIT (12/09/02 - 6:20pm): Sorry guys, but the upload server appears to be completely hosed this evening - I had to attach my files for cracker's QS1 game. I'll try again tomorrow evening - Lee, if you can get the file before I'm home from work tomorrow, feel free to jump ahead.

MORE EDIT (12/10/02 - 10:50am): I have downloaded Rowain's save onto a floppy that I intend to take home with me tonight. I will check this thread before I leave work this afternoon to make sure that Lee hasn't played ahead of me - if he does, I will download his save and continue from there.

EVEN MORE EDIT (12/10/02 - 4:25pm): Leaving work now - will play this evening.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

Had to let that out. It looks like Rowain's save file has got corrupted somewhere, and the game won't load (I wonder if it had anything to do with the upload problems over the weekend). Rowain, please could you repost the save.

Sorry about the outburst, I've held this game up so long that I feel like I'm letting the team down...

@Arizona_Steve

EDIT
MORE EDIT
EVEN MORE EDIT

I *NEVER* saw the above. Edits don't show up as new posts.


As for Rowians file being corrupt - HUH?
I just downloaded it and loaded fine. It must be an issue at your end. Let me know if I should go.

Lee, it's OK. I was trying to load the file using vanilla Civ as opposed to PTW (I've played a of of games on vanilla Civ recently).

I'm playing now, hopefully this will be my only :smoke: for tonight...

Sorry about the late posting.

Inherited Turn:
I come into this game with instructions to gather up enough cash to survive anarchy, and create the German Republic.
Currently we have 58 gold and are making 22 per turn. We're paying out 17 gold per turn to other civs, so in order to survive 8 turns of anarchy, we will need 136 gold.
We have a wines for silks deal going with Persia, which is netting us 2 gold per turn, however it is up for renegotiation this turn. Losing this income will bring our requirements up to 152 gold.
We have a 14 gold per turn deal with India, but that won't be up for another 10 turns.
We could broker communications between Babylon and the Aztecs, but neither has any spare cash.
I go through and optimize all cities for maximum commerce (including the removal of our lone scientist). This brings income up to 31 gold per turn.
Xerxes demands 20 gold + territory map. I cave - we are in no state to fight a war.
I get back 5 gold and his territory map by offering him our world map.

(1) 70AD
World map trading:
India - 1 gold.
Aztecs - 11 gold + their world map. He also sacrifices 50 warriors - I don't think they're the ones that he'll probably send after us at some point!
Zulu - 5 gold.
I renegotiate our silks for wine + 2 gold/turn deal with Persia. We now get wines and furs from Persia for our silks. Not a bad deal at all! With the extra luxury I can dial down luxury tax to 0% and exchange the entertainer in Leipzig for a lone scientist. We make 37 gold per turn now.
Zululand declares war on Persia. Nothing like a good AI war to waste some shields! While they're at it, they start JS Bach's Cathedral. Why? I ask. They should be building military.

(2) 90AD
We're up to 128 gold now, and can revolt next turn.
I get another 8 gold and a couple of world maps by trading our world map around again.
We build a couple of pikemen and start more.

(3) 110AD
Our treasury reaches 174 gold. I do a final check on our outgoing costs to other civs. Still 17 gold per turn, so we have some contingency to play with.
After shuffling some troops around to improve our defences, I order a revolution. It could be worse, we draw 6 turns of anarchy.
I flip through our cities, and only have to order an entertainer in Leipzig. There are no riots as a result.
China declares war on Zululand.

(4) 130AD
Shuffle a few troops into cities, where they fortify.

(5) 150AD
(6) 170AD
(7) 190AD
I hire a taxman in Heidelburg as it's population grows to 5.
The Republic of Germany is formed.

(8) 210AD
Post-revolution adjustments. All specialists are fired. 10% luxuries will avoid riots in all cities except Leipzig, so I hire a lone scientist there. We are making 60 gold per turn, even with the 17 gold per turn payments to other civs, and we have 90 gold in the bank. REsearching Theology, 33 turns to go.
India starts Smith's. Geeze, they have Economics.

(9) 230AD
(10) 250AD
As more pikemen start being produced, I start disbanding warriors to save on maintenance costs.
Income jumps to 74 gold per turn as our trade deals with other civs expire.

I deliberately left the trading decisions to the next leader. With 74 gold per turn coming in, we should be able to trade some way up the tech tree.
Before saving the game, I checked that the cities won't riot. Should keep Lee happy :)

LK36 - 250AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36_250AD.zip)

250 AD - I sell the Aztecs Contact with Babylon for $20, wm. I hawk the map for another $4.
China has a worker for sale, but I pass. We have a decent worker force, but are hurting for technology.
I hate to throw away 9 turns of 40-turn gambit on Theology, but our #1 goal is to improve revenue. Theology is on the path toward banking.

260 AD - I buy Invention from India for wm, $293, $30/turn.
I can buy theology from the Aztecs at a discount; it cost invention, $10/turn and $10.
$210 is much better then the ~$800 price that was originally wanted for Theology.
I set the token scientist to Gunpowder, as we have 3 upper techs to buy.

270 AD (I) - Aztec / Zulu alliance vs. China - silly AI strikes again.
We get our first palace expansion.

280 AD - It is a bit of a gamble, but I sell China our only horses for $14/turn, wm.
If we get into a war in the next 20 turns, we are toasted regardless of having horses.
On the other hand, I prefer to keep China alive to help counter-balance Persia.
I trade Babylon Theology for Monarchy - late game we may want that government.
I hire a tax collect for 3 turns in Leipzig, after that the Cathedral will fix the happy problems.

300 AD - I scrounge up $8 from selling wm around.
(I) Persia completes Bach's, creating more of a monster.

310 AD - The token scientist moves to Frankfurt, and Leipzig is growing again.

330 AD (I) Well scratch the Aztecs - Persia / China ally versus them.


Summary - Sorry guys, but I shot us in the foot. I think if the Aztecs die with us paying them gpt, our trading will be screwed for the game. I hope that #$!@$!@#!*(! bug has been fixed with 1.14.


LKendter
Architect (currently playing) - Needs to renegotiate luxury trade with Persia.
Carbon_Copy (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-350AD.zip

IIRC gpt to a dying civ is not such a problem as it would be with resources or Luxuries.

and even if in my experience the will start to except gpt-deals again after 20 ~ 40 turns;

Good News: Some AI-wars

Sad that Persia and China had Allied vs Aztecs. It would be a lot better if those two would fight each other.

But much more important :

Do we have any plans how to win this game and how we proceed now? I know the goal was Conquest but we have just seven cities now and looking at Persia and China (*shudders*).


Rowain

Winning we be major challenge at this point. I don't know if the conquest goal is still possible, our start was to food weak and we didn't get enough cities.

We need to get to last civ prices to ever catch up on tech. In that respect that death of the Aztecs will benefit us. Now if Babylon would get ahead of us ;)

I got, but can't try to play until tomorrow.

I am finally playing right now.

350AD(0) Leave everything as is.

360AD(1) I trade for Education, Wines, and Furs for 595gold, 15gpt, and our silks.

370AD(2) ...

380AD(3) Berlin Library->University as a prebuild for a bank hopefully. Leipzig pikeman->palace as prebuild for Bank. I trade Engineering and Education to the Babs for Chivalry and Printing Press, 30gold and their wm. Useless and cheap pick-ups. No one will trade us banking. Zulu complete Smiths.

390AD(4) ... Indian's cascade to Shakespeare.

400AD(5) ...

410AD(6) Shuffle some workers around. Aztecs still around. 5 more turns...

420AD(7) ...

430AD(8) ...

440AD(9) ...

450AD (10) Konigsberg Cathedral->Libary. I had to reload the 450 turn as somehow I traded for banking while trying to find the best deal for it. I repeat everything exactly as I did it before I started negotiating. I trade 504gold and 26gpt for Banking and switch everything I can to banks.

Now that we have banking, the focus should be on infrastructure and not more techs. We should get 5 banks ASAP.

The Upload feature is not working. I will check back in a bit and attach the save.

5 Banks are definitly a thing worth to have but they don't give us Wall Street. In PtW we need 5 Stock-Markets for it .


Rowain

D'oh... well, lots of banks soon then.. :)

I trade Engineering and Education to the Babs for Chivalry and Printing Press, 30gold and their wm. Useless and cheap pick-ups.
I agree useless techs, but if the Babs get ahead of us in tech, we can buy it cheaper :)




We should get 5 banks ASAP.

If you are thinking wall street, in PTW you need 5 stock exchanges.



EDIT - Egads, get distracts for just a few minutes to reply...

Here is the save:


450AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-450AD.zip)

Can't play today, expect it tomorrow.

Edit: Let's try Monday. About halfway done with my turn.

450 (0) - Wow, we've got some AI juggernauts going on here.

460 (1) - As soon as we're done with our horses deal, we need to start attacking China. They have no more iron and we need at least one more city so we can build our Forbidden Palace. I take our horsmen out of Liepzig to get them closer to China.

470 (2) - Market finished in Munich, starts Courthouse for now. Babylon discovers Astronomy, I give them Banking + 14 gpt for it.

480 (3) - Leipzig finishes bank, starts Medieval Infantry for now. I cancel the horse deal with China and change Leipzig over to knight as well as upgrade two of our horsemen to knights.

490 (4) - Another knight upgrade

500 (5) - Heidelburg finishes aqueduct, starts Medieval Infantry

510 (6) - Stephenburg finishes bank, starts granary, I upgrade our last horse to a knight.

520 (7) - Liepzig finishes knight, starts knight. Berlin finishes bank, starts Knight. The Aztecs discovered Gunpowder, so I sell them Astronomy and Banking for it, their WM, 2g (all they had) and Music Theory just because. We do have saltpeter, but it isn't hooked up. The Aztec world map shows a Zulu city way in the fog in the ocean to the southwest. We can conceivably afford the prices for Chemistry, but it's still a bit too rich for me. The Chinese have saltpeter at Hangchow but not connected (I don't plan on them having Hangchow for too long anyhow), and the Aztecs and the Babs are without completely.

530 (8) - With five knights, I declare war on China, then move them in place to attack Hangchow next turn. Hangchow's best defender is a regular spear.

540 (9) - Interturn, the Aztecs demand territory map and 22g. Considering that they only have one city, I decline. Then the Zulus and the Chinese come to peace. :rolleyes: I also see that Persia is at least to Military Tradition, as he sends a cavalry briefly through our territory.

Now, the fight for our eighth city begins. First knight is wounded down to 1 hp but wins, the second defender is another regular spear and our second knight wins without a scratch, taking the city. That brings our count up to 8, and we can now build our FP. My suggestion would be Munich once it finishes the courthouse, or Frankfurt starting next turn. Hangchow has 5 resistors out of 5 citizens, and I start it on a library.

550 (10) - Frankfurt finishes courthouse, starts marketplace. I move the Knights from Hangchow to outside Munich, where they can attack Tatung in two turns if you go there through India. I move one pike into Hangchow, but it still has five resistors in it, we can't even starve the city yet or rush a library for culture. Consider it a heavy flip risk.

We can afford any single tech up for sale (and probably most combinations of 2 techs), but we can't do any brokering, except to Babylon for Democracy. I discontinued our 1-beaker science after we got gunpowder, there's no point to 40-turn research on any of those techs and our city is better off growing than having that scientist holding back the growth.

Also, keep in mind that our double-lux deal with Persia ends next turn, don't forget to renegotiate.

Here's the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-550AD.zip

:eek: With five knights, I declare war on China :eek:
Ouch, Diety war with 5 knights? This could get "interesting".


LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf (currently playing)
Arizona_Steve (on deck)

I don't think China poses much of a problem.

Unless the Chinese sic one of the big dogs on us (unlikely since they've got nothing to trade and the Persians and Zulus are busy fighting amongst themselves and we have lux deals ongoing with Persia), those 5 knights should be enough to take as much from them as we care to have, provided we keep a city or two building them. Now that we have Hangchow, they are down to 4 non-contiguous cities, no saltpeter or iron, and are completely gassed from war with the Zulus. The only two cities that might be important to us are the two closest to us (Tatung and some other one), there's a buffer of (formerly Chinese) Persian cities between those and Beijing, we probably shouldn't press the war beyond those two and try to extort techs for peace. The big one to get is Navigation so we can trade saltpeter to the Babs for their tech.

OUCH, I didn't realize China collapsed so much during Architect's turn! China was a much bigger player during my turn, and thus my reaction.

Got it and playing

Rowain

550AD (0) Sign a RoP with India for 45 gold;

IT: a LB kills a Knight; Leipzig Knight -> Knight; Heidelberg MI->MI;

560AD: MI sent to Hangchow to stay outside and retake it if necessary; Pike moves to Hangchow as a second anti-resistance troop; One Knight kills a LB and promotes;

IT: LB attack and losses

570AD: Frankfurt grows and gets a Scientist; Silks to Persia for wines+Furs+WM;
Killing 2 Spears and 1 LB gives us Tatung together with Aqueduct and 6 resisters; One Knight promotes to elite; Library ordered;

IT Berlin Knight->Knight;

580AD: killing a LB; Buy WM from Zulu for WM+25 gold; Selling the WM now earns: 25 gold from Persia, 16 gold from Ghandi, 7 gold +WM from Babs and 8 gold + 2gpt from Monty

IT: a lot of Persian Cavs move in Zulu-direction but Shaka defends himself quite good; India starts Newton; 3 resisters in Tatung quelled; starvation started;

590AD: there is a Musket in Tsingtao so I must wait till I have enough troops for it;

IT: Leipzig: Knight->Knight;
Stephen: Granary->Courthouse;

600AD: zzz

IT: a LB attacking our Knights dies; a Chinese Spear wanders next to Stephen

610AD: the wandering Spear meets a Knight and becomes History

IT: Koenigsberg: starts Courthouse; Munich starts FP;

620AD: attack on Tsingtao kill 2 Spears and a Musket without losses but one LB is still left.

IT: Palace-expansion (by the look of it our second);

630AD: I decide to risk the attack Our 2hp knights attack the reg LB and wins. Tsingtao (and silks) are ours.
Zulu, Persia, India and China are industrial; despite his losses Mao will only give one tech for peace. So to make the most of it I buy Chemistry(for 1068 and 3 gpt) and Physics(for 67 gpt) from India. Peace with China for Magnetism and their 2 gold; Babylon will only give 20 gold for Chem or Silks so no trade done;

IT: Babylon demands Silks for free. I deny and we now have a phony war with them; It save us 3 turns of our 14gpt payment

640AD nothing;

IT: For those that often marvel over the RNG: A 4hp Persian Cavalry attacks a 1hp Zulu Cav on grassland and losses : )
Berlin and Leipzig finish their Knights and start Universities

6650AD : Isend our Settler with his Pike escort up north; perhaps there is a chance that some cities will be razed in the ongoing Zulu-Persian war.


We are still making more then 100 gpt . Since both Techs we miss in Middle-age ( ToG and Metallurgy) cost ~1400 gold (Indian prize) I suggest to wait 10 turns and then buy both techs.
So we have a chance to sell our free Industrial tech.

Good Luck

Rowain


Arizona-Steve is up;
LKendter on deck;


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-650AD.zip)

I have the game and will play tonight.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I will be in England between 12/23 and 1/8, and will not have any access to Civ. Please skip all of my turns between those dates. I will resume playing once I get back providing, of course, that the game has not completed before then.

If you really need five full-time players I will not be offended if I get dropped from the roster.

Probably my last contribution to this game for a while (see message above)...

Inherited Turn:
State of the nation - we are making 109 gold per turn, at war with Babylon.
Currently researching Theory of Gravity with one scientist.
We require Theory of Gravity and Metallurgy to get into the Industrial Age, where we will acquire a free tech to sell aound, hopefully.
Everyone is either annoyed or furious with us. With the exception of Ghandi, who is polite.
I look round for trade deals. It looks like China is our best bet here, as they have no iron, horses or saltpeter. Trading iron to them would increase our leverage, as we can still build muskets for defence and cavalry for offence.
I go for the cheaper of the two techs, Metallurgy, giving the Chinese Iron, 55 gold/turn and our entire treasury of 157 gold (they wouldn't accept any less).
Before hitting the spacebar, I set the Chinese cities to taxmen to starve out the foreigners, netting us a little more gold.

(1) 660AD
We have a lot of unfortified troops in cities. Seeing that there's no war worth talking about, I fortify them where they stand.
I watch as persian units meander aimlessly through our land, on their mission to kick Zulu butt.

(2) 670AD
Library rushed in Tatung. I intend to rush libraries in all our captured Chinese cities to help guard against flips.
Tatung completes it's library, starts a temple.

(3) 680AD
Babylon and China ally against the Aztecs. Could be interesting. In the meantime I watch for Persian and/or Zulu cities being razed - we have a settler at the ready to occupy those spots.
India and Persia ally against Zululand. Maybe I need to get another couple of settlers ready.

(4) 690AD
Library rushed at Hangchow, temple started. It will also be starved down to one citizen this turn.
Leipzig completes university, It's at size 12, so a settler is started.
Konigsburg builds courthouse, starts library.
Frankfurt builds marketplace, starts bank.

(5) 700AD
Berlin builds university, starts musketman.

(6) 710AD
Tsingtao will be starved down to one citizen this turn, library is rushed there and temple is started.
Leipzig builds settler, starts musketman.
Stephenburg builds courthouse, starts library.

(7) 720AD
X-man demands 21 gold plus territory map. I cave - he has an intimidating number of cavalry near Tsintao.

(8) 730AD
The Aztecs have Navigation on offer. I swap it for Chemistry.
No-one will trade Theory of Gravity to us.
Konigsburg completes library, starts University.
India completes Magellan's Voyage in Calcutta. No cascade takes place.

(9) 740AD
(10) 750AD
Nothing much. We still cannot trade into the Industrial Age. Silks + 50 gold per turn brings us up to "doubtful" for Theory of Gravity.

Notes: There are two settlers under the pikeman near Stephenburg.

LK36 - 750AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36_750AD.zip)

Comment: If you had waited 10 turns you would have been able to buy both techs; So our Industrial Age is delayed and the chance that every AI has our free tech is now increased.

Hope we get Medicine as our free tech

Rowain

I'm out from Dec.24th till Dec. 30th

LKendter (Currently playing)
Architect (on deck)
Carbon_Copy
Rowain deWolf (I'm out from Dec.24th till Dec. 30th)
Arizona_Steve (Not available from 12/23 and 1/8)

Comment: If you had waited 10 turns you would have been able to buy both techs; So our Industrial Age is delayed and the chance that every AI has our free tech is now increased.

Hope we get Medicine as our free tech


Rowain, I pulled a rabbit out of the hat - read 750AD summary ;)


750 AD - I sell the Zulu silks for wm, $62 - the wm reveals a huge new block of just water.
I hate phony wars, to Peace, Physics to Babylon for wm, $23, Economics (a waste, but it was for free).
I sell India incense, and get dyes, wm and $95 - every penny helps ;)
I scrounge up some cash from selling around the wm.
After of this wheeling and dealing - I buy ToG from India for $381, $49/turn -
Our free tech is still nationalism, however... [dance]
I sell nationalism to China for Military Tradition, Democracy, $178, and $23 / turn.
I sell nationalism to Zulu for Iron, Free Artistry, and $55/turn.

Tech parity with the Zulu and China, Persia up by just Communism, India up by Communism, rails and Babylon is still in the middle ages.

I mm Frankfurt from to allow it to grow to size 12 ASAP - going from 1 to 6 spare food. I also fire the token scientist - I won't wait 30+ turns for ToG.
I wake up the settlers to move closer to the war front.

I think ~$18 is worth one clown, so I hire a clown at Stephenburg and drop luxuries to 0%

I decide a token scientist looks good again, so Tsingtao hires one to research medicine. We want rails, and factories before, so maybe it will pay off.
(I) India cancels our RoP, no big loss.

760 AD - I snag an India worker, with rails coming soon we need all the workers we can get.
(I) It gets crazier as China / India ally vs. the Zulu.
Bangalore builds Newton's and there are NO wonders under construction [dance]

770 AD - Our new deal with Persia is silks and $12/turn for 3 luxuries.

780 AD - WLTK day in Munich recovers a shields speeding up fp production.

800 AD (I) - The palace expands - this way just our third expansion.

820 AD (I) - The Zulu / India war ends.
The AI must have factories, as India begins suffrage.

830 AD - This may be :smoke: on my part, but I buy rails from India for $835, $110/turn.
I recover a big chunk of our cash - rails to China for $68/turn, $200, wm, and a worker.
The Zulu are broke, or close themselves - they have nothing to offer.

The capture of Tsingtao turns out to be genius, as that is our ONLY source of coal - and it is connected.
With this news I rush the temple in Tsingtao to protect our coal.

840 AD (I) - Scratch the Aztecs, Babylon has wiped them out.

850 AD - For $105, I buy a worker from India - we really need workers.


Summary - I skimmed several workers from our cities, but we are still hurting for them.

Tech has ground to a halt - I think the Medicine gambit has a good chance.

We need to watch for when ToE is getting close to begin the palace pre-build.


LKendter
Architect (Currently playing)
Carbon_Copy (on deck)
Rowain deWolf (I'm out from Dec.24th till Dec. 30th)
Arizona_Steve (Not available from 12/23 and 1/8)


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-850AD.zip

850AD(0) Everything stays the same.

860AD(1) Few more workers come on line. Trying to get our railnet complete. No changes on the Diplo front.

870AD(2) Our forbidden Palace completes and I start an Aqueduct. We jump to 212gpt from 182gpt.

880AD(3) I buy a worker from china. I rush the Aqueduct in Munich.

890AD(4) ...

900AD(5) The indians move some troops into our lands. India is delaring war on the persians. Mao offers a MPP and ROP, I decline.

910AD(6) Leipzig begins a palace for prebuild. 19 turns to complete may be a bit soon. I start cols in our core cites as factory prebuilds. We can buy industrialization now but I'm going to wait a few more turns. China goes to war against persia by India's request. Good thing I declined with Mao. India brings Babylon into the fray too.

920AD(7) ...

930AD(8) I get Tsingato working again and move our scientist to Leipzig for now.

940AD(9) India has Electricty now.

950AD(10) I trade Steam Power to Shaka for 56gpt. I then trade 1422 gold, 52gpt to India for Industrialization. I switch most of our core cities to factories. The corporation has been discovered too.

950AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-950AD.zip)

Next leader should continue building up our economy and finishing out our railnet. We might want to consider a quick calvary war against someone before its too late. Replaceable Parts will be here soon.

LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy (Currently playing)
Rowain deWolf (on deck) (I'm out from Dec.24th till Dec. 30th)
Arizona_Steve (Not available from 12/23 and 1/8)

Wow, quick turnaround and it looks like we're in much better shape than what I left you guys in. Looks like my war against China was a smart move, after all.

I may or may not be able to play this one before Monday, if I do it, it will be sometime tonight, and I've still got a bunch of stuff to do today (last minute x-mas shopping, housework, etc.), and if I can't do it tonight, it won't happen till Monday (out of town Saturday and celebrating my birthday on Sunday [dance]). I'll still try to do this tonight, and if I can't, then maybe Rowain can go so he can be sure to get one turn in before the 24th and I can go after him for just this round.

Are we just going for a win any way we can, or is the goal still conquest? I think we're in a good position for a diplo or space win now, and I haven't won by space since LK8.

If we're going for a peaceful victory, then we should probably prebuild for stock exchanges in 5 cities and Wall St. for when the Corporation comes in so we can get that online ASAP.

@Rowain deWolf -
Can you squeeze one more int if CC doesn't get it tonight?

Should be able to play either Saturday or Sunday


Rowain

Go for it, Rowain, it's not gonna happen tonight.

I have read this thread this evening.I thought no chance of winning this one untill Carbon Copie's stroke of genius at 530 A.D.
He had really sussed out the situation to a T.
After trying 3 times to win on deity level and getting battered each time in the latter stages of the game,I was rather hoping the same was going to happen to you,purely selfishly,to prop up my own self esteem.
Your abillity at trading far exceeds mine but I'm learning by reading the expert's games.
I hope you now win this one in a canter.

Sorry could not play it today (RL-troubles) but hope i get to it on Sunday.


Rowain

Really, the key turns in this game weren't the ones that I've played. Looking at the shape China was in during my turn, there wasn't any question that we could take them on if we needed to, and with only 7 cities, we NEEDED to. The fact that we have our only coal from one of those Chinese cities was purely good fortune, but it sometimes pays more to be lucky than good. The masterstrokes of this game so far have been the turn Rowain had just after mine, especially on 630 AD when he bought Chemistry and Physics so that he could get Magnetism for peace from the Chinese, and Lee's dealing on his last turn to get us close to tech parity with the big boys.

Oh yeah, :bday: to me.

Much of the key here was people scrounging the extra few bucks from Diety.

For example:
I sell India incense, and get dyes, wm and $95 - every penny helps This was our ONLY source, but I replace it and get $95 for our bother - that whole trading deal might now have happenned if it wasn't for that few extra dollars.

Patience:
950AD(10) I trade Steam Power to Shaka for 56gpt.
Shaka was flat BROKE during my turns, but get cash 10 turns later. Never give up on getting money from the world.

Using what ever you have:
I give Incense to Persia and get there complete wm. We have done a very good job of leveraging our luxuries.

from 950AD - 1050AD

First : [party] Happy Birthday CC [party]

950AD (0) I leave anything as it is;

IT: Hammurabi asks for an Alliance vs Persia I decline; India could have killed the lone Persian Leader but decides to attack Cavalries instead;

960AD: Incense to India for Dyes+WM+80gold; Send Settler/Pike up to Incensespot;

IT: Persia only covered the Leader with a Cav. India attacks and the Persian Leader is History;

970AD: renegotiating the deal with Persia; Wine + Furs + Ivory for Silks,100 gold 10gpt;

IT: Babylons invades Persia with 2 Bowman + 2 Spears + 1 Cav + 1 Pike

980AD Still working on the railroad;

990AD:

IT: Persia kills an Indian Settler/Rifle pair which stood exactly on the spot I want to settle; Thanks X-man

1000AD: Electricity still unaffordable;

1010AD Nuremberg settled (on Incense);

IT: India and Babylon sign MPP, Zulu destroy China (we lose one turn of +86 gold)
Leipzig Factory-> Cav;

1020AD Library rushed in Nuremberg;

IT: India captures (and lose) Bactra; This kills our Lux-deal with Persia(but not our reputation). Stephenburg and Leipzig riot before I use Scroll ahead to prevent riots in other cities.

1030AD: 1518 gold + 130gpt to Babs for Corporation and Espionage; India would be cheaper but is rich enough and the Techleader;
Espionage + Silks to Persia for Furs + Wines + 70 gold + 30 gpt; Fire all Clowns and start StockExchange in Leipzig + Berlin

IT: first Pollution near Leipzig;

1040AD + 1050 AD nothing happens;

Persia is in Monarchy Zulu in Communism, India + Babs in Democracy;
India has at least Refining + Electricity Both techs has nobody else; Perhaps it is cheaper to build IA and steal the needed techs from them;


Good Luck CC

Rowain


The Game (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-1050AD.zip)



Sorry for the Delay but my Mother got hit by an stroke of apoplexy. This results that I am now here in Vienna instead out but I don't know how much time I will have to play

I've got it, and actually I've completed my turn, but with family coming over today my report is still incomplete and I don't have time to upload. Look for it this afternoon or tonight.

1050 (0) - I notice that Persia has Medicine already. The gambit would have been a failure if Persia hadn't been sucked into war with the remaining three AIs. And we can't short-circuit the gambit by trading, at least not without completely mortgaging our economy for 20 turns to get something now that we'd have in 10 turns anyways. So as long as Persia remains at war with those three, I'm content to let the gambit continue.

IT: Babylon completes Universal Suffrage in Nineveh, Nuremburg completes its temple, starts on harbor and expands borders. Hangchow completes granary, starts marketplace.

1060 (1) - We're lucky that Xerxes is at war with all the other AI, else everyone would have Medicine by now. It looks like India is already to replaceable parts, I think that I saw a gurerilla in some of the interturn combat.

1070 (2) - Not much

1080 (3) - First stock exchange completes in Liepzig, which starts on a coal plant. Factory in Heidelburg completes, starts on stock exchange.

IT: Frankfurt builds factory, starts barracks (a 1-turn build) before starting a stock exchange.

1090 (4) - Babylon goes into Anarchy. Nothing much else happens.

1100 (5) - India goes into Anarchy, and Babylon goes into, of all things, Republic. I also notice that Bengal, an Indian city directly next to our FP, can build the Ironworks. If Diplo victory wasn't an option we need to keep open, I'd strongly advocate going to war with India just to get that one city on our side.

1110 (6) - The tech leader, India, goes communist.

IT: Liepzig finishes coal plant, starts Intelligence Agency.

1120 (7) - Renew lux for 18 gpt deal with Babylon. The price stayed the same.

IT: Persia demands the Corporation. Wow, that puts me in a tight spot. I decide to cave to him. Pollution strikes the iron mountain by Liepzig, and Munich is hit by disease. I've had better interturns. When I finished my turn, I reloaded from before this and tried refusing Xerxes, and Persia would have declared war on us.

1130 (8) - Nothing much, waiting for Medicine to come in.

IT: More disease at Munich.

1140 (9) - Not much, India tries to woo me with the irresistable offer of RoP + MPP.

1150 (10) - 40 turn science gambit makes us the 2nd to discover Medicine. I trade:

-To India + 55 gpt for Electricity

-To Babylon + 850g + 50 gpt for Replaceable Parts

And that's about all we can do for it, all the civs are up Communism on us, India is also up Steel and Refining, Babylon up Steel, Persia DOWN Electricity and RP (that's what you get for being at war with everybody, Xerxes!), and the Zulus down Industrialization, Corporation, Medicine, Electricity, and RP.

We do not have any rubber! There is, however, rubber just outside of our borders by Tsingtao, we could settle a city NE then N of where the settler is currently to ensure it remaining in our cultural borders. It's a dense build (with the city square being within the current 21-tile radius of Tsingtao), but two half-corrupt cities three tiles apart does not ICS make, plus it would be REALLY nice to have some rubber of our own. I'll let the next chief decide what to do about it.

I set our minimum science gambit to Sanitation, but with no turns invested, we can change that around to whatever. The next player will see the 5th stock exchange complete, so Wall St. is an option if it doesn't mess with any prebuild plans for ToE and/or Hoover. We'll also complete the Intelligence Agency, which should be a main source of new technology once it comes online and we plant spies.

With one tech powerhouse recently gone Communist and the other one unable to broker to anybody but us, we stand a good chance of coming up to full tech parity by the end of the Industrial Age.

I also did some troop upgrading here and there, making sure that each city is guarded by at least one rifleman. By the time the Industrial is done, we should have a barracks in every city so that we have the option of building Civil Defenses.

The game can be found: here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk36-1150_AD.zip)

With the A_S skip, I got it.

Talk about gaming around the holidays :lol:

1150 AD - I rush the marketplace in Hangchow to help with happiness when in grows. I upgrade a couple more units to rifleman for the new city, and a city with a pike for defense.
I trade Persia Electric Power for Gems, Ivory, wm, $66/turn and $65.

1160 AD - Cologne, the possible suicide city is built, and we will have a source of rubber.

1180 AD - Wall street is due in just 6 turns in Berlin :)
I renew Incense for Dyes trade with India - they are also paying $5/turn.
(I) Unreal - the Zulu demand Silks - Since they could easily get at least one city - I cave.
The intelligence agency is completed.

1190 AD - Once again, I cleanup pollution by Berlin, and reset to the grassland tile - this save 1 turn from the finish of Wall Street.
GACK I attempt to plant just one spy in Babylon, and he is caught. I start a war with Babylon, who was polite! This is different from Vanilla Civ3, I never got a war from polite civ!

1200 AD - We connect to the rubber source, and start to upgrade to infantry ASAP.
(I) It gets uglier, as the Zulu declare war on us.
We get our second palace expansion.

1210 AD - I upgrade as many units as I can to infantry, while keeping our cash above $1000.
(I) Nuremberg falls, and we lose 2 sources of incense. I hope we didn’t destroy our rep from cancelled trade deals. So much for rushing another infantry in that city :(

1220 AD - The India / Babylon MPP has expired [dance]

1230 AD - Our trade with Persia is up for renewal, and I give him Replaceable Parts for furs, wines, $6, $79/turn and wm. I can’t believe Scientific Method still is NOT available, so I decide to run for it ourselves. It will take us just 10 turns thanks to the extra cash from Persia.

1240 AD - I sell silks to Persia for a mere $18/turn, but that is better then having them demanded from us.
(I) Wall Street is completed.

1250 AD - I increase the science factor to 100% thanks to Wall Street, sm in just 7 turns.

Summary - NO MORE SPIES PLEASE! I can’t believe I got a war from a **POLITE** civ!
Frankfurt is configured for palace one turn after ToE is completed - watch it carefully, as the pre-build for ToE. It will need to go heavy shields after starting the ToE. The bad news - nothing to use as a pre-build for Hoover, unless we bail on Wall Street.

How do you guys want to win this game? I don’t think we have a chance at the original conquest goal.
The food poor start just didn’t let us get large enough in size. Let me know what is the preferred way to win.


LKendter
Architect (Currently playing)
Carbon_Copy (on deck)
Rowain deWolf
Arizona_Steve (Not available from 12/23 and 1/8)


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/LK36-1250AD.zip

I agree, conquest is not going to happen. For one thing, I don't think we have any legal tiles for oil to appear in our territory (all of our deserts are floodplains), and we're not going to have it happen without tanks.

If our attempts at espionage hadn't blown up in our faces so badly, I'd say that Diplo would have been our best bet, but now we may have to go for space if our rep has been burned badly enough. Unfortunately, we got ourselves pulled into war with two of the civs that would likely not be appearing on the ballot (and likely would have voted for us) if we built the UN and held a vote, I imagine that if we did have a vote it would be us vs. Persia and we would probably win if Xerxes could keep up his continual war with the other three AI civs.

But just because it blew up in our face so badly the one time doesn't mean that we should throw out spy planting entirely. If we go for space, we'll NEED spies planted to stay afloat in the Modern age. Check the RBE game threads to see how valuable, if not necessary, espionage is to the late Deity game. Can we plant spies in civs that we're at war with? If we can, then we might as well try until we succeed with Babylon and Zululand.

I agree with Carbon_Copy on one thing - We may as well get spies in Babylon / Zululand while we are at war, as no harm can come from it.

As for the rest of the world, I don't know what to do. I have never during all the Civ games I played had war declared on me by a polite civ over a spy. I am scared to death that PTW has changed the reactions to spies - a war with Persia / India would equal instant death.

I'm not ready to give up the conquest option. The whole point of playing the Germans was to roll with panzers. We are still in position to get TOE and Hoover. With a small core and Hoover we can generate a large number of panzers and go all out against one of our our neighbors. At the current rate, everything needed will be in place right in time for combustion and all we build until the end is panzers.

With the holiday starting I'm not going to have a chance to play until maybe Wed night but probably not until Thursday morning.

I agree with Architect, if you get to Mechanized Xport first, deny their oil, it's game over for the AI! You're in pretty decent shape, actually. The war with Babylon is of no significance. They'll have to come send one ship to you, deposit it next to your city, and watch one to seven units get slaughtered. Before the end of 20 turns Babylon will be paying for peace. It's a good thing, don't sweat the spy failure.

Now, do NOT try to plant on Persia, THEY would be a big threat, unlike the distant Babs. I opened up the game file for a look - you have an 'average' military compared to the Zulu, so you should be able to handle them relatively easily.

Everybody is in Communism, no one in a representative govt beside yourselves, and between better income and science and espionage, you're in great shape with tech. India is up a few techs, but with ToE you'll jump ahead, and stay.

Eat 'em up with those Panzers, men, and stay alive untiil then :)
Charis

PS Besides... do you really want folks to read the thread title and say... 5CC diety conquest?! Well, it wasn't 5CC. Actually it wasn't conquest. It was diety though. The military Germans never bothered with Panzers, they got a UN victory as Persia was about to engulf the world ;)

Well the #1 question - what is going on with spying? Has this changed with PTW? Can anybody shed some light on this? Is this a deity reaction to spying, or is something new going on?

Well our big challenge - where to get oil?

I will defer to Architect on attempting the conquest goal. I will admit I should not have picked that goal for my first deity attempt - the volume of troops I have been watching going by have me scared to death. To have a chance:
1) We must lock Babylon out of trading to delay there ship launch as long as possible.
2) It is going to be very difficult, but the tech leader India will have to be the first target.
3) We must go with pure scored earth - razed almost everything, unless it provides something critical. This will have the added bonus of the AI spending a ton of effort on meaningless settlers.
4) We don’t have to kill the first round, simply chewing up the AI will be enough.
5) We need to continue my plan of artillery in every city, and multiple defenders to survive the initial onslaught.

ToE is pretty much a lock, however we have *NO* pre-build to use for Hoover - that could be close.

Still going with conquest? Okay, I guess we haven't missed our window yet.

I disagree on our first target. It would almost have to be Zululand. The reason? Oil. We had a wet/warm map, didn't we? Look around the map the next time you open it. The number of tundra tiles are in the single digits (None on our continent, and none in Babylon, it's all on that one island), and there are very few bona fide desert tiles, most of them are actually floodplains. I don't think that Persia, Babylon, ourselves, or India have any possibilities for oil, but there is some desert in Zululand and maybe in some of the southern portions of that island we could find some. When we get refining, the civ with the oil is the one we need to attack, because without oil and rubber we can't build our panzers. When we get to Motorized Xport (or maybe even before with artillery and infantry attacks), India would be a fine second target, especially in the Ironworks-capable city of Bengal right next to our Forbidden Palace in Munich (suggest raze and replace that one to ensure it being ours, but use that same city site).

Still going with conquest? Okay, I guess we haven't missed our window yet.
Architect is much more experienced then I am at deity, so that is why I deferred to his judgment. To me this looks impossible, but we shall see. If nothing else, we have the headache of reaching Babylon in time.

I took a detailed look at the map -
India owns those 4 southern tundra island tiles.

Persia has just 1 desert square by Tyre and a decent patch of desert by Xoch... of which no cities were build on desert reducing the possibility of it being there.

Now looking at the Zulu - Ibabanago was built on tundra. Canton, Hlobane, and a razed city on desert one square from a river. :hmm:
Our homeland defense is decent, I think maybe a few cavalry war with artillery support is due with the Zulu BEFORE mass production. Of course, raze and replace or probably flip.

I had some polite Civ declaring war about a Spy in Vanilla Civ on Emperor and on Deity so nothing new for me.
And I have often found that an attemp during War succeeds more easily.

I like to go for Conquest win and think it very much possible.


Rowain

1250AD(0) I'm going to focus on maximizing the war with the Zulu, maximizing our cities, and initiating the TOE Hoover Jump. Even though we have a small core, we still have ~15 tiles that could be improved. We could use a few more workers. Our attacking force is 8 cavs and 5 artillery. We are going to need more than that for the zulu war. I switch Cologne to a Library as the temple is unneeded with Six luxuries coming in. I rush it for 64 gold to get the culture expansion sooner. I dial up persia and get us a ROP. I dial up India and get them to declare against the Zulu for 400g. I send our entire calvary army through persia to Nurmberg.

IT: We lose 4 cavs but the indian's and persians defeat some defenders and it is left with a 2hp cavalry defender showing.

1255AD(1) I attack nuremberg and we defeat 4 weakened calavry to retake it. Let's hope the indians and persians distract the zulu enough to prevent a counter. I complete our railnet to Cologne.

IT: We survive a two calavry onslaught :) by the zulu and promote a calavary defender to elite.

1260AD(2) General improvements. I rush a settler to try and steal/fill in gaps in Zulu homeland.

IT: We lose two calvary defenders in Nuremberg.

1265AD(3) I complete our railnet to Nuremberg. The settler is in place next turn to found a new city that will bring in with expanded boarders 3 more desert tiles for oil. 3 turns to SM.

1270AD(4) Hannover is founded.

1275AD(5) The babs start TOE. I'm going to launch an offensive against Holbane with 4 infantry, 5 calvary, and all 11 of our artillery.

IT: The babs make an appearance on our coast with a galleon and an ironcald.

1280AD(6) We get TOE in six turns. Bab TOE is being build in a size 8 city with only 3 mines in its radius. I don't think they'll beat us and I don't bother investigating. We are running 100% tax.

IT: The babs sail away. Its fun to watch the Persian, Indians, Zulu, and Babs all fight each in the open while we focus our efforts on taking cities.

1285AD(7) The attack on Holbane begins. We destroy the library and coly and 2 pop, it is still size 7 so I'm going to wait another turn before sending in the calvary. Only riflemen to deal with it seems.

1290AD(8) We damage 1 rifleman and reduce 2 more pop in holbane. I want better odds with only five calvary so I'm going to bombard one more turn. Still no sign of WW. I rush the factory in Tsigtao and a courthouse in hangchow. Everyone is either communist or monarchy still.

IT: Zulu and india sign a peace treaty. Backstabbers....

1295AD(9) Round 3 on holbane: Sweet! First 3 attacks result in citizen and 2 rifleman being fully damaged and that's the only defenders. A 2 calavary attack takes the city! We gain 2 workers and 2 cannons. I'm going to hold it and bring in a settler and abandon it. I complete the rail net to the Holbane, abandon it and bring in a settler and found Bremen in a better location gaining 4 desert tiles once the library I rush expands. Canton is next on the easy target that might have oil list. I move the remaining 4 calavary and one infantry in to attack next turn.

IT: The babs have a foothold on the main continent. I suggest we consider taking it. Good thing I didn't make peace.

1300AD(10) :

Our Ivory and Gems deal expired with the Persians. We can trade them Sci Meth for them. We have TOE in 1 turn so we can trade that or 44gpt. They also have communsim so I'm sure something can be worked for SciMeth and GPT for Ivory, Gems, and Communism. I wouldn't end turn until this is done.

We capture canton and along with it the Observatory. We may still might want to abandon this city but It only has chinese in it so I'll leave that up to the next leader. There are 4 workers needing tasks in our core. I am building all infantry but feel free to shift to calvary. With the soft underbelly of the zulu exposed calavary have been working great backed up by infantry and artillery.

Research is a big question mark because of the wars. Refining is still only known to the indians and they want all our money and 410gpt for it. We may want to do our own research again and that may mean a few more universities. We must get to panzers soon and be ready to take on the persians (IMO) with the rest of the world.

Press the war on cautiously and the WW will stay way down. Watch out for the babs but don't make peace until necessary. If you want, spend some money and make India fight the Zulu or Babs again. They'll chicken out soon enough again.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk361300ad.jpg

Here's the save:

1300AD (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk36-1300ad.zip)

EDIT: If we get a leader build and ARMY and put calavry in it. They will get blitz so all three units will get to attack. Calavry armies are the best army unit right now. Make sure you get a victory with it to so we can build MA and HE. We will want to crank armies and use calvary or panzers. We can always stick a panzer/MA into a calvary army and "modernize" it with the pentagon.

I love reports like We gain 2 workers and 2 cannons.
With our income two more instant artillery :)
More workers never hurt ;)

:goodjob: to Architect - quite a bit gained with not much in the way of units. A good pre-build spot for Hoover.
====================================
LKendter
Architect
Carbon_Copy (Currently playing)
NOTE: Read the bold note from Architect
Rowain deWolf (on deck)
Arizona_Steve (Not available from 12/23 and 1/8)

I have it, but I can't get this turn played until Sunday the 29th.

1300 (0) - Scientific Method + 89 gpt to Persia for Gems, Ivory, and Communism. I move the workers to an unworked grassland by Liepzig.

1305 (1) - Theory of Evolution completes in Frankfurt, we get Atomic Theory and Electronics as our two free techs, and I swap over our prebuild to Hoover, which will be due in 9 turns at maximum shields. I then trade Atomic Theory (by itself a worthless tech) to India for Refining, Sanitation, and 190g.

We now have refining, which means that it's now time to see if we have any oil in our borders....

We do! In fact, we have two! One sits directly under Canton, and the second one is along the railroad between Hannover and