View Full Version : Unknown Tanks of the US Army...
SunTzu Nov 25, 2002, 08:54 PM Everyone knows of the US Tanks in WW2 and the Gulfwar, what tanks were used in between there, i know Shermans were usedi n Korea but what about Vietnam?
Pictures and info would be nice :)
Shabbaman Nov 26, 2002, 01:46 AM Not very informational, but I saw a documentary on tanks on the discovery channel (where else?), but this one was special. It was on all those stupid ideas that were actually built...
Maybe you could check their site.
Lefty Scaevola Nov 26, 2002, 07:04 AM M48s and M60s mostly.
Alcibiaties of Athenae Nov 26, 2002, 12:22 PM As Lefty said, the Patton series, but the US also employed some other unique armor, such as the "Ontos"
M-48
http://www.sos.state.mi.us/history/mag/extra/tanks/images/m48a1.jpg
M-60
http://dwp.bigplanet.com/rellitechnology/nss-folder/pictures/M60A3.jpg
Ontos
http://www.armorinaction.com/Ontos.jpg
The Marines also used a series of large amphibious carriers.
The ARVN used M-24 Chafee tanks left over from the 1950s
M-24
http://www.jed.simonides.org/tanks/charlie/chaffee_series/m24/m24_004.jpg
gr8ful wes Nov 26, 2002, 12:25 PM When was the Patton used? was it post Korea? I Didnt think It was used during WW2, but I swear they showed them in the film PATTON. It's been a while since I have seen it, but I know that there was some WW2 film that I saw them in.
joespaniel Nov 26, 2002, 01:28 PM Yes, they used US M-48 tanks as "panzers" in the movie Patton.
It was difficult and expensive to aquire real panzers, so they improvised a little. ;)
The M-48 was around for the begining of Viet Nam, then replaced by the M-60 altogether.
No M-48s or M-60s existed during WWII or Korea. Only after.
The M-41 "walker bulldog" made a brief appearance at the end of the Korean war, and was used extensively in Viet Nam.
Toward the end of WWII, a new US tank appeared called the M-26 Pershing, which was an even match for the Tigers and Panthers. It was used for the first time in combat at Cologne, where it knocked out a Tiger II.
Vrylakas Nov 26, 2002, 09:37 PM A link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=26534) to an earlier thread that touched on this topic a wee bit. ;)
Rodgers Nov 27, 2002, 05:52 AM In the film The Bridge at Remagen they use what look General Chaffees - is this accurate?
I only ask because I believe the Chaffee was around in 1945 and the film was portraying a reconnacense company who would be most likely to get the brand new stuff as soon as it became available.
On the other hand it could just be a badly done film (or I might know nothing about tanks) ;)
Alcibiaties of Athenae Nov 27, 2002, 10:02 AM Chafee tanks were introduced in late 44, so yes, they could have been at Remagen.
That DOESN'T mean they were, however, I would have to check the TOE (Table of Organization & Equipment) of the involved units to be sure, and that can be tedious. ;)
BTW Joe, the Bulldog WAS NOT used exstensivly in Nam, the US Army didn't want tanks AT ALL (they were thought to be to noticable).
When the Marines were sent to defend DaNang in 64, they took their M-48s, never thinking the US state deparment would object!
The Army then saw the value of Armor, and began deploying a few regiments, but the Bulldog had already been religated to the Nation Guard, so was not deployed exstensivly to Nam.
If you like, I can look up the exact regiments deployed. :)
jeriko one Nov 27, 2002, 10:13 AM Sheridans were used un the Vietnam War. It was an Armoured Recconaisance/Airborne Assault Tank. But as far as I know it had not much of use.
Case Nov 27, 2002, 04:01 PM Actually, I think that Sheridans saw a lot of use in the late stages of the Vietnam war, where they performed fairly well when used against infantry and bunkers. However, the Seridan was considered an unsuccessul tank as it and it's weapons were mechanically unreliable, and didn't stand a chance against first rate Soviet Armour.
The 70s was a bad decade for US armour. As well as the Sheridan, the US Army wasted tens of millions of dollars on an ulitmatly unsucessfull missile firing variant of the M-60, millions more on the over-ambitious Sergant York AA tank [or was that the 80s?], and pulled out of the US-German tank project which ultimatly produced the Leopard II [though the M1 was born out of that decision, for better or for worse].
joespaniel Nov 27, 2002, 04:44 PM Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
BTW Joe, the Bulldog WAS NOT used exstensivly in Nam, the US Army didn't want tanks AT ALL (they were thought to be to noticable).
When the Marines were sent to defend DaNang in 64, they took their M-48s, never thinking the US state deparment would object!
The Army then saw the value of Armor, and began deploying a few regiments, but the Bulldog had already been religated to the Nation Guard, so was not deployed exstensivly to Nam.
If you like, I can look up the exact regiments deployed. :)
I should have elaborated that the M-41 was used extensively by the ARVN, and not by the US Army. ;)
By the fall of Saigon, the ARVN was using M-48s, for all the good it did them.
Here is a good link for info about the M-41 (http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/m41/m41a.html.).
Alcibiaties of Athenae Nov 30, 2002, 04:36 PM Case, The joint US/German project was called the MBT-70, the M-1 is based on it.
The Sgt York was a 70s project, due to enter service in the eighties, but it never came to pass.
The Sherridan was tested in Vietnam, not used extensively, it was intended for Airborne operations, but was used for export to third world nations (Israel REFUSED it, insisting on M-48s), the vechicle had extremly light armor and poor performance.
For a little extra, the US also employed a 155mm self propelled gun.
There were also a number of testbed stuff that never were produced, as well as improvisations, such as 2 1/2 ton trucks with "boiler plate" armor, and a nasty variation of this, the same truck with a M-113 personel carrier mounting a high-speed Vulcan cannon loaded on the truck's flatbed.
This site has pics of the truck and the APC carring version, as well as the M-109 SPG and M-107/110, even Sherridans and Ontos, the works ;)
http://members.tripod.com/~ButlerC/ArmorArtillery.html
Case Nov 30, 2002, 09:33 PM Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
[B]Case, The joint US/German project was called the MBT-70, the M-1 is based on it.
OK. The M1 and Leopard II entered service at the same time, so I guess that neither the US or Germany was too badly affected.
The Sherridan was tested in Vietnam, not used extensively, it was intended for Airborne operations, but was used for export to third world nations (Israel REFUSED it, insisting on M-48s), the vechicle had extremly light armor and poor performance.
Isn't the Sherridan still in service with the 82nd Airborne Division? (which, from what I've read, is very keen to find a replacement).
Re unusual armour of the Vietnamese war, the Australian army made about a dozen fire support M-113s by installing turrents from British armoured cars in the place of the normal machine gun.
The Art of War Nov 30, 2002, 10:29 PM The M1 and the Leopard 2 weren't based on the MBT-70/PzK-70. They were two totally different projects.
The US and FRG wanted a tank that they could both use, and build and develop together. After the first few prototypes, they realized it wouldn't work. it woulda been cool if it did, though. The thing had a 152mm gun/missile launcher.
joespaniel Dec 01, 2002, 10:14 AM :D This is kind of a funny coincidence...
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/%231Image1.gif
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I dont know if the Sheridan is still in service. Its mighty old by todays standards.
Paratroopers used it as a mobile pillbox and bunker-buster, since it had such a large caliber gun.
Years ago, a new faster light tank was being developed, but I havent heard anything about it for awhile. I will try to find a link...
Case Dec 01, 2002, 05:00 PM Originally posted by The Art of War
The M1 and the Leopard 2 weren't based on the MBT-70/PzK-it woulda been cool if it did, though. The thing had a 152mm gun/missile launcher.
That gun was a total disaster. It was the Sheridan's main armament, and the US Army wasted tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in trying to fit a version of it onto the M-60.
Alcibiaties of Athenae Dec 02, 2002, 01:57 AM I NEVER saw a Sherridan, and the 82nd was my div, the sucker was never issued as intended.
This site gives a good account of why not:
http://www.soft.net.uk/entrinet/armour11.htm
joespaniel Dec 02, 2002, 02:49 PM Are you sure the Airborne never had it?
I could swear that I read something about them airlifting Sheridans on training missions...
Alcibiaties of Athenae Dec 02, 2002, 06:12 PM Third brigade didn't have any, and I never saw a single one.
joespaniel Dec 03, 2002, 01:43 PM Then you have answered Case's question.
The Art of War Dec 09, 2002, 10:22 AM Originally posted by joespaniel
I dont know if the Sheridan is still in service. Its mighty old by todays standards.
Paratroopers used it as a mobile pillbox and bunker-buster, since it had such a large caliber gun.
Years ago, a new faster light tank was being developed, but I havent heard anything about it for awhile. I will try to find a link...
Are you talking about the Cadillac-Gage Stingray? They made a Stingray 1 and 2. Each with a 105mm gun.
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